Americanswers… on 5 Live! Trump hosts Starmer at his Scottish golf resort

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Is the West Bank reaching a tipping point? I'm Asma Khaled and I host the Global Story podcast from the BBC. For more than a week, homes in the village of Qusrat have been under siege, including one of a Palestinian-American man from Ohio. It's just the latest to draw attention to the rise of settler violence in the West Bank, which the UN says is higher than at any point in the last 20 years. For more, listen to The Global Story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:59BIT.LY, that is bit.LY, and then forward slash AmeriCastFeedback, all one word. bit.LY forward slash AmeriCastFeedback, all one word. For now, though, time for another episode. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts.

1:16Anthony Zurcher:Hello. All right. We've just come off air with Matt Chorley on Five Live. This week, Donald Trump is in the United Kingdom in Scotland, ostensibly to play golf at his luxury Turnberry Resort there. But between rounds, he's also doing some American presidential business, his second favorite hobby, which is talking deals. The European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen went all the way to Scotland to meet with Trump, and they announced a trade deal that includes 15 percent U.S. tariffs on all EU goods. But that wasn't it. On Monday, Trump sat down with Keir Starmer, the British prime minister, and they talked their own deals as well as a whole bunch of other stuff.

1:53Anthony Zurcher:So who is affording the bill for Trump's extensive security detail, all these travel arrangements, and could anything sour the U.S.-U.K. relationship? And was the president caught red-handed on videotape cheating on a golf course? All that and more. Welcome to AmeriCanswers on 5 Live.

2:23Trump's message is very simple.

2:24Anthony Zurcher:We are done being taken advantage of. Mr. President, in the name of our God, have mercy upon the people who are scared now. Are you supportive of these onesies? I'm supportive of vaccines. What is happening?

2:36Sarah Montague:Like, this is not America. This is a terrible nightmare. This is what victory feels like. Yeah!

2:53Yeah, this is America Answers with me, Matt Chorley. Sarah Smith, where in the world are you? I am at Donald Trump's Aberdeenshire golf course in many. So you're waiting for his arrival as we speak?

3:05Sarah Montague:Yes, as he's wrapping up in Turnberry, he'll fly up here. Yeah, it's entirely possible the press conference is still happening and will happen forevermore.

3:13Anthony Zurcher:Anthony Zurch, where are you? I'm in Charleston, South Carolina. I was supposed to come back to D.C. last night. My flight was cancelled, so I'm stuck here for an extra day. I'm looking out my hotel window at Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbour, where the first shots of the US Civil War were fired. Wow. And Justin Webb, where are you? Right next to you, Matt. Not quite as glamorous. Right, we've got loads to talk about. Let's start with Donald Trump has been meeting Keir Starmer at his Turnberry golf course today, before he goes off to see Sarah. First thoughts on the press conference, Justin? Apart from it being an hour and a quarter long?

3:47The guy's an entertainer. It's what we've said about him since, well, actually in a way since he became president first time around. But I mean, I think much more in the run up to the last election and since it, he's become much more confident in himself, which, you know, horrifies some people, attracts others to him. But he is just an extraordinary virtuoso performer now. And for Keir Starmer, you know, what a white knuckle ride as he has to sit next to him saying all these things and occasionally chipping in. and it would be interesting to see how people think he did in that chipping in, whether he will have seemed flattened by the president's personality and views on a wide range of subjects, as you were saying, or whether that's the way to treat him.

4:33We're looking at a guy who is just not an ordinary politician in any way, shape or form, not an ordinary world leader in any way, shape or form. It is a new world. It was striking that Keir Starmer did pick his moments to interject. So on wind farms, when Donald Trump was being rude about wind farms, Keir Starmer jumps in and says, well, it will be part of our mix. When he's being rude about Sadiq Khan. He says he's a friend of mine. So he didn't just sit there mute. But he was, he didn't want to do that too much. He didn't want to annoy him and all of that. Let's have a listen to some of what he had to say in terms of the substance.

5:04Let's look, first of all, at the situation in the Middle East. It's what Donald Trump had to say about Gaza. So that's an ongoing process. Hamas has become very difficult to deal with in the last couple of days because they don't want to give up these last 20 because they think as long as we have them, they have them, they have protection. But I don't think it can work that way. So I'm speaking to PB Netanyahu and we are coming up with various plans. We're going to say it's a very difficult situation. If they didn't have the hostages, things would go very quickly. And then on Russia, he was talking, he basically was sounding more and more exasperated with Vladimir Putin, saying that he'd given him 50 days to end the war.

5:47He was saying he might cut that. Is this a sign, Anthony, do you think, of Donald Trump losing patience that actually may be coming to realise that, whether it's Benjamin Netanyahu or Vladimir Putin, there are not necessarily people that he can do business with?

6:01Anthony Zurcher:Yeah, it's certainly an indication of that. It seems like he's been losing patience with Vladimir Putin publicly now for months and it hasn't translated into concrete action. I think that's what we want to watch for. Are these new arms shipments actually going to reach the Ukrainians? Is he going to support sanctions that are moving their way through Congress or not? With Netanyahu, the dissatisfaction has been more off the record, behind the scenes. People within the White House saying they're getting sick and tired of him, always bombing and not moving towards peace. Trump himself hasn't been quite as vocal in his criticisms of Netanyahu as he has of Putin.

6:38Anthony Zurcher:So I think there are indications that it's moving more towards frustration for both of those leaders. But the question is, again, you know, wait until the rubber hits the road. Let's see if there's actually any kind of concrete actions the U.S. takes to back that up. What's your your reading overall of everything that Donald Trump had to say, Sarah? Anything sort of that surprised you from what he had to say?

7:00Sarah Montague:What, from the fact that he doesn't like illegal immigration? So it was some of his greatest hits, wasn't it? the subjects he likes talking about most in many ways. But, I mean, it was fascinating watching Keir Starmer pick the moments, yeah, when he dared to disagree or finding elements of agreement within some very, very different policies, for instance, on immigration, sort of, you know, agreeing that, you know, illegal immigration is illegal, practically. OK, let's dive into some of the questions then we've had from listeners. Stephen in Berkshire has emailed to say, if Trump has passed over the responsibility of running his businesses, including his golf courses to his sons, why is he coming to Scotland?

7:40Surely this one goes against the principle that a president should not use his office to further his own business interests. Sarah?

7:47Sarah Montague:Yeah, well, that principle was dispensed with quite some time ago, I think, when it comes to Donald Trump, probably the moment he came down that golden escalator in his eponymous Trump Tower to run for office. It has been synonymous with him, his business interests running alongside his presidency. And it's pretty clear that that is one of the major drivers of this trip to Scotland, that he wanted to visit Turnberry and play his golf course. But really what he wants to do is come up here to his Aberdeenshire course many and open a new 18-hole golf course. He's with his two sons on this trip. Eric's going to cut the ribbon on that course on Tuesday.

8:25Sarah Montague:And that's what he's really here for. He has fitted in visits with Keir Starmer. He'll see the Scottish First Minister, John Sweeney, tomorrow. Ursula von der Leyen, obviously, from the European Commission yesterday. But it's almost as though signing the biggest trade deal in history with the European Union was a bit of a sideshow compared to promoting his golf courses, which is obviously the main driver of this trip. And we saw this when he went through the Middle East as well. Anthony and I went on that Middle East trip. And sweeping ahead of him, just two or three weeks ahead of him, was Eric Trump signing deals for new Trump towers, for new Trump golf courses in all the different countries that he visited.

9:03Sarah Montague:Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Qatar were all doing Trump business at the same time as they were welcoming Trump on an official presidential visit. They're entirely entwined now, Trump's business and Trump's presidency. Well, on a similar theme, we've also had this question sent in. Hi, AmeriCast. This is Jane from Aberdeer. My question is about the private visit that Donald Trump is paying to Scotland this week and I'd like to know why has he come on Air Force One as it is a private visit? Could he not have come on his own private jet or is he bound by security concerns? We're told that it's costing £10 million to cover the security costs.

9:47Sarah Montague:If it was anybody else other than the President of the United States who was equally as wealthy, would they be invoiced for those security costs? Anthony, take us through this. What can a president do normally and not do? And how unusual is this?

10:07Anthony Zurcher:Well, whether this is a public or a private trip, he's still the president of the United States, and he still has massive security interests. And Air Force One is a huge part of that, not just the security of having this aircraft that is protected against electromagnetic pulses on nuclear blasts and has all of this suite of communications that will allow the president to be a commander in chief no matter where he is in the world. So being on a private aircraft doesn't provide those same sorts of benefits. This is why Air Force One is used here for whenever the president travels, whether it's an international trip where he's visiting a golf course or a campaign trip during a reelection in the United States.

10:48Anthony Zurcher:That is one of the benefits of the office. Now, maybe Justin could talk about whether the U.K. government would pick up the security costs of a non-politician, of just a wealthy person showing up or not. But obviously, there's a political concern here as well. You know, the president of the United States is coming to your country. You want to be able to make things as nice as possible, as smooth as possible for that person, because you want to stay in the president's good graces. That's the point, isn't it? I mean, it is coming. I mean, although you can say, yeah, part of it's a private visit.

11:20But, I mean, he is obviously doing business as well. So I don't think there's any question that they're going to be suddenly going to the White House and saying, oh, you've got to pay because you came to Britain. That's just not going to happen. And just to back up, Anthony, on the president, I mean, I was on a press plane. So not only in Air Force One, a press plane following Air Force One once. We got stuck in Istanbul. and we were stuck there because the co-pilot's seat had broken and they had to get a new seat from Boeing in Seattle because they would not trust the spare seats that there might have been at Boeing places in Europe.

11:54They bring their own fuel as well. I mean, the majesty of any president's travel around the world has to be seen to be believed and so it is just inconceivable that the Secret Service would allow that any president would come in any way, shape or form without being on Air Force One, with all of the security stuff that goes around it. And, you know, as for the security on the ground, I suppose, you know, you wouldn't want to lose him, would you? It would be embarrassing. Yeah, definitely wouldn't help relations.

12:26Sarah Montague:J.D. Vance is coming on holiday, of course, isn't he? I wonder what the security arrangements will be for that. Does he come in on Air Force Two? Does he have a police escort? Yeah, and who pays? I mean, I honestly don't know the answer to that. I wonder if it is available.

12:39Anthony Zurcher:Yeah, I think it'd have to be on Air Force, too, just because, you know, he is next in line for the presidency. If something were to happen to Donald Trump, no matter where J.D. Vance is, then J.D. Vance would become president, and you need to have the same sort of support and resources. Yeah, so he's not flying budget. Yeah, yeah, you're not going to see him back in coach with his kids. Well, let's move on, because we've got more questions. This is a question on Trump's meeting with Keir Starmer. Hi, AmeriCast. This is Ian from London. Trump seems to treat people as good guys once they pass an unknown threshold.

13:14For example, the relationship with Zdzinski has improved massively and Putin is still spoken of like a friend who makes bad choices. Given this, and based on previous relationships with other foreign leaders that Trump has changed his mind on, what could sour the very special relationship that the UK and US seem to have at the moment? the differing stance on Gaza or a reduction in the trading goods if the UK pivots back to the EU with some sort of customs union? Thank you. Justin, what's interesting is that there's never a fixed state with Donald Trump. I suppose that's why Keir Starmer has to be so careful because he might be his best mate now.

13:51That's the essence of Trump, exactly that. Never a fixed state. But it's worth saying behind the scenes there's a really interesting piece in Politico, the online US, very well-informed US politics website recently about this, that Trump sets enormous store by people calling him on his mobile and he hands out his number quite easily to people, shockingly easily to world leaders and others indeed around the world. Quite a few journalists have got it as well. And he likes them to call him. And Starmer has availed himself of that. And they have a relationship behind the scenes. Just after the assassination attempt, didn't he?

14:24I think he was the first person to get through on his phone. First person to get through. But just anyway, just to shoot the breeze. And this article describes Macron in particular. So that question was a really interesting one. What can derail it? Could Gaza? Well, Macron has just said they're going to recognize Palestine as a state, which is something Trump absolutely does not want them to do and regards as being a mistake, put it mildly. Is that going to derail the relationship with Macron? I suspect not, because one of the relationships that they went through in this article was Macron apparently just rings him up and he says, hey, Emmanuel.

14:54Well, and they have this kind of, and then just ring off after a bit, you know, like your kids do, really. And that, I think, behind the scenes, again, it's a new set of relationships. And it doesn't necessarily mean if you have a sharp disagreement with Trump on a policy matter that that's it.

15:11Sarah Montague:But it could on a personal issue, though. Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. 100 percent. So that's the other side of it, isn't it, Sarah? Personally, if you slight him, you're in trouble. If he feels disrespected in any way by you or you attempt to upstage him or ridicule him or embarrass him in any way, that would be it. You would be out and you would be cut out for a long, long time. So I think he does respect people who say, I'm going to do something differently for these reasons. But, you know, here's why I'll try and not make it too difficult for you when it comes to policy decisions. But if he slighted in any way, that would be very dangerous for any politician who did that.

15:50And that's why during that press conference it goes on and on and on, because Keir Stammer is not going to leap in and say, well, right, but let's leave that there, Mr President, you know, because he doesn't want to offend him. Just continuing on the conversation about this visit, Colin in Cambridge has emailed, why doesn't the coverage of Trump's UK visit show the Gulf cheating incident? Where is the infamous balance in your reporting? Well, a very, very quick search will show that lots of outlets have shown it. It's a video of a caddy apparently dropping the president's ball in a more favourable position.

16:24Are you a golfer, Anthony?

16:26Anthony Zurcher:I am a golfer. I don't get out as much as I'd like to because, you know, work gets in the way. But, you know, I actually just wrote a piece that ran this weekend over Donald Trump and his relationship to golf. And I touched on some of the allegations of cheating. And I spoke to Mick Mulvaney, who is his former chief of staff, who is a pretty good golfer, and said, oh, he's never caught Donald Trump cheating. He's seen him take mulligans, which is a kind of a do over in golf every now and then. But then I spoke to a historian, an author who has covered Donald Trump. And he says, oh, Donald Trump's a notorious cheater.

17:00Anthony Zurcher:And he constantly has his caddies improve his lies. And he once talked to someone who said he took six do overs on one hole and still recorded it as a par. So, you know, you've got multiple different accounts here, although now we have visible photographic video evidence of just the sort of thing that the Trump golf critics have been alleging. Well, there we are. I feel like we've now addressed that. and obviously this is very much in an audio format, this. So if you want to see the footage of the golf ball apparently being dropped very near the president's golf buggy, you can obviously find that online.

17:36Right, let's turn our attention to some other areas now. The Epstein story, we've talked a lot about that on AmeriCast. It's a story that just won't go away and the president has seemed slightly panicked by that. He's again denied that he'd been told his name appeared in files related to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. We've also got Epstein's accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, who's been questioned by Justice Department officials. In the press conference today, Donald Trump insisted he'd never been to Jeffrey Epstein's private island before going on to claim that Bill Clinton had been. And then he said the Epstein files were a hoax that had been built up way beyond proportion.

18:14OK, let's hear this question now from another AmeriCast listener. Hi, AmeriCasters. Read the Epstein story. Am I the only one struggling to navigate what on earth is going on here? Why did Trump promise to release the Epstein files knowing his own past ties to Epstein? And will he use the Florida court ruling to dodge that promise? I can't see Trump easily getting out of this one. Can you? Matt in Derby or, for Anthony, Derby? Go on then, Anthony. Yeah, answer the question for our Derby listener.

18:51Anthony Zurcher:Yeah, hello, Derby. Donald Trump, you could hear him in that press conference today dodge and try to misdirect as best he can. And he's blaming it on us political enemies. He does seem to want to try to keep these files from coming out. He does seem to be nervous about it. The reference you said to the Florida court ruling, that was something that we just had last week where Trump wanted this grand jury testimony in the investigation to be released. But a judge has to sign off on that. And the judge said, no, it's unlikely that any of this testimony will be made public because it deals with sensitive issues and investigation where it could be personal information from victims in these crimes that Epstein committed.