Americanswers... on 5 Live! Will Trump's new challenge to birthright citizenship work?

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0:59Former President, of course, Joe Biden's decision to grant him a pardon and indeed the current state of Joe Biden's health. We have been answering all your questions on Five Live with Matt Chorley. Welcome to AmeriCansers.

1:15AmeriCast. AmeriCast from BBC News. You hear that sound? Oh, I think when I hear that sound, it reminds me of money. We didn't start this war, but under President Trump, we are finishing it. This is a big cover-up, and this administration is engaged in it. This guy has Trump Arrangement Syndrome. I have four words for you. Turn the volume up!

1:41OK, we've got a lot that we want to try and get through on American Answers today. Let's dive straight in with a question from Jonathan in Hampshire. He says, Trump and denying birthright citizenship. Is he trying to get illegal immigrants and people who travel to the USA just to give birth? Does he realise this might apply to some of his own children? So this we've got a clip. This is President Trump in the Oval Office last week when he signed two new executive orders on birthright citizenship. We had a very unfortunate decision in the Supreme Court concerning birthright. It was close, but a very, very unfortunate decision.

2:17So we're making adjustments because it's very unfair. This was done for a different reason. This was done right after the Civil War. This was for the babies of slaves. And what's happening now, people are building businesses around it. Wealthy people are building businesses around birthright citizenship. That's not the way it's supposed to work. It's a disgrace. They're buying their way in. And we're not going to let it happen. So, Sarah, this has obviously been something he's tried before. What's different this time around? So he's using a different authority to do this because after the Supreme Court struck down the executive order he had signed trying to end all birthright citizenship, he's now looking at different laws to find a different way to achieve the same result and hope that this would be judged to be constitutional.

3:08So there's two things he's trying to do, which is to expand the definition of people in America for whom giving birth here doesn't count towards birthright citizenship. So that's already the case for people on certain kinds of visas or diplomats, for instance. If you're working in an embassy here and you're a foreign citizen, your child doesn't automatically get citizenship for being born here. The bigger one is banning what he calls birthright tourism. The practice of apparently pregnant women traveling to the United States with the specific intention of giving birth on U.S. soil and therefore achieving US citizenship for their children.

3:46Now, they claimed that hundreds of thousands of women are doing this every year and that, in fact, there's an entire industry around it with Chinese people and businesses there and bringing Chinese people to give birth in the West Coast, that there's a hub of Russian-based businesses bringing Russian women to the United States to give birth. It does happen. It's not clear, though, that there's necessarily the numbers that Donald Trump was claiming because when they went up in front of the Supreme Court, the Solicitor General said they had no idea how many women do this every year. And now he says it's hundreds of thousands.

4:21And it's going to be challenged in court, inevitably. This will end up going all the way up to the Supreme Court again. But it's just, it's as he has done before, Donald Trump's attempt to just use a different mechanism to achieve what the Supreme Court had told him he couldn't do with an executive order. Where does this go then, Justin? because if he keeps trying to do it and then it actually doesn't work i mean does he get the credit from the people who want him to do it or does it become another thing which he talks about but can't achieve initially when he first signed the order in those first few days it felt goodness he's really intending to do stuff that people say oh you can't do that and he's going to do it and this idea of agency which so much of trump is about but actually if he if he keeps trying and keeps failing i'm not sure it does much for agency really does it and i mean i've got tattooed across my chest the 14th amendment um all persons born or naturalized in the united states subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the united states that's what it says and it's quite difficult to get around that and the risk i think for him this time as sarah says it goes to the supreme court and even when it is and he is aiming it is aimed mainly actually at wealthy people because illegal immigrants coming across the southern border, they're in desperate straits anyway, and they're not going to have timed it right to have the child, etc., etc.

5:41The big aim is to stop, again, as Sarah says, a problem that you don't know the size of. It's probably tens of thousands, and it's probably undermining of America in the long term because there's a load of people who live in China, for instance, who have the right to come if everything goes wrong in China, but who have no particular allegiance to the US. So you can sort of see why they want to do it. But you come up against those very plain words which impressed the Supreme Court last time around. And I can't really see it changing. And would it catch his children? No. No. No, it would not because he's a US citizen and his children were born in the United States.

6:20So it wouldn't apply just because their mother wasn't a citizen. And it wouldn't apply to any of his children's children either because they're US citizens. It would be somebody who didn't have a connection to the United States, who wasn't married to an American, for instance, giving birth in the US. It's interesting because the way this is unfolding on social media, Matt, I mean, it understandably plays into narratives around illegal immigration and people essentially framing it like it is, you know, gaming the system in order to benefit from it and everything. But one of the things I've noticed is, particularly since the World Cup, obviously during the World Cup, one of America's best players was this guy, Balogun, who is actually, his mum just happened to be in America on holiday, I think she was, when she gave birth to him.

7:04And so he was able to play for the US because essentially of this. And it was a very good thing for the United States. And actually, it's quite interesting because I feel like the general atmosphere that the World Cup has created, particularly in terms of the attitude towards people coming from abroad, It doesn't feel like this is the right moment for Donald Trump to have that argument in the online world. Like it doesn't feel like people are seizing on this as much as they are other topics that concern them more than birthrights. Yeah, they're damn lucky my daughter was born there, Max. She's going to be president one day and she'll be a very good one.

7:35I suppose I should name all the other potential candidates now, shouldn't I? I've probably broken some terrible rule. With your tattoo. I hope by that point at the inauguration you could be bare chested with the entire constitution. Yeah, on display. Right, after that terrifying mental image, let's move on. Sheila is on the line. Hello, Sheila. Hello. What is your question for the AmeriCasters, Sheila? It's about... We missed, I think, your line broke up on the crucial word ballroom. But I think we... No, it's not your fault. But yeah, just be clear, we're talking about the ballroom in the White House.

8:09These projects take years and years and years to plan. So this all seems a little bit rushed, a disaster waiting to happen. However, there must be a contract in place. So I'm intrigued by which department to sign that contract, who's overseeing it, what penalty clauses there might be. Trump says he's got the money from the donors. Where is it? But if you look at where it is now, the work now, it seems to be fairly well progressed. And what I'm wondering is, if he decides to do what he's told and stop the process now, where are we? Because it would take millions of dollars to get that, the work made good.

8:53We may have to build something on the top of it anyway. But yeah, just to be clear, we're talking about the ballroom in the White House, which has been quite like anybody when they start a bit of home renovation, it can be a bit stop-start, Sarah. Where are we on the latest? Well, it's still going on at the moment. At the end of last week, there was a court order saying that Trump has to stop building the ballroom because he doesn't have the power, the authority to do it. He needs Congress to agree to this. It's not something that the president can do himself. They said he's a temporary tenant of the White House, not the owner, and needs to behave like it.

9:27But he's got two weeks when they can carry on building the ballroom whilst he appeals this. This is another thing that's going to be going to the Supreme Court. They're going to be very busy with Donald Trump's demands for things that he believes that he can constitutionally get done. At the moment, if you are able to look at it, well, it looks like a huge, big building site, and they're carrying on with work on an underground bunker. This is going to be a new military secure facility that Donald Trump says is absolutely essential for national security. He's allowed to carry on building that. It's all going to be underground.

9:59But in two weeks, he's going to stop building the boardroom on top of it. And Sheila is absolutely right about everything she asked there. Yes, if he's made to stop that, they're going to have to put something on top of this bunker. and replace the whole of the East Wing that he knocked down. You can't just leave it as this kind of construction site. So I don't know quite how they would agree what should be there. There is a contract, Sheila. It was a no-bid contract given for$500 million to a firm that's friendly with Donald Trump. And he was able to do that because they did it through the auspices of saying it was the executive residence that was commissioning this.

10:35And that has far fewer checks than a normal federal contract. and it means he can keep all sorts of clauses of it secret as well. Oh, excellent.

10:47What's that? There's anything really to add there, Sheila. I wonder as well, actually, if the money eventually, if it all goes wrong, Sheila, what they also will do is turn to the Pentagon, which has a kind of bottomless pit of money, although, my goodness, they've got to spend a bit of it now replenishing the various bits of kit that they've expended and hardware and shells and all the rest of it they've expended in Iran. But actually, you know, his latest truth social stuff, which I thought at first was made up. I didn't believe it, but it seems to be. It's not made up. There are drone ports.

11:22It's not made up. It's not made up. There's stuff on the top, the sort of military kit on the top. And I wondered whether that, I mean, I have no evidence for this, but I just wonder whether there is going to be so much about this that is potentially military that can be passed off like that, that actually they'll just get the Pentagon to foot the bill or a lot of it. Marianna, just in case listeners haven't been on Truth Social at the weekend, can you explain what Donald Trump posted? Yeah, so Donald Trump posted on Truth Social on Friday saying, the military and secret service are viewing this horrendous ruling as a national security threat to our nation in that the entire complex is being built for the protection of our country.

12:01And then on Saturday, Trump shared these AI generated images on Truth Social of what he called a, quote, drone port on the White House ballroom roof, saying this great and very important military asset sits atop the heavily protected ballroom at the White House. It provides national security for Washington, D.C. and will protect future presidents, three exclamation marks. So he's going down that route. You do wonder whether the kind of narrative around the ballroom, which becomes a little bit symbolic of wider, both support and criticism for Donald Trump, will be like slightly his undoing. Because I think a lot of people are starting to be like, what is going on with this ballroom?

12:35What is it for? And as you kind of point out in your question, Sheila, it's progressed enough that it feels like it's a waste of money to go backwards. It also could be a waste of money to go forwards. Yeah, we've all had a bathroom renovation like that. What, you've got a drone on the top of your loo? When the plumber goes AWOL. Is that the flush? Sorry, no, that's a drone port.

12:57Sheila, great question. Thank you for that. Let's keep going because we've got lots we want to get through. We've got a voice note from Finn in Liverpool. In your latest episode talking about the reflecting pool, you mentioned about Donald Trump really only keeping people who tell him what he wants to hear. I'm conscious that Susie Wiles doesn't often get mentioned. Does she get more of a free reign to tell Trump the cold, hard truth, even if it's not something he wants to hear? Are there any others in his circle who have that luxury? Thanks very much. It struck me thinking about this in advance, Justin, Just the fact that Susie Wiles has survived is notable in this Trump administration, given the speed with which he rattled through four people as chief of staff in his first term.

13:41Yeah, she is absolutely pivotal, the whole thing. She wrote or did an interview, a set of interviews. Was it Vanity Fair? One of these glossy magazine things that seemed as if, whoa, hang on a second. It's all going wrong because she was mildly critical of him. She said he had an alcoholic's personality, which you can't imagine him enjoying reading. And people wondered at that stage whether that was she was going to go the same way as all those other people. But actually, since then, she's been quieter. I don't think she's done any major interviews since then, but also obviously very much still part of it, still part of the whole thing.

14:18And, you know, to the extent to which he kind of lasts on to into the last two years, she is going to, it seems, keep her powder dry when it comes to talking to people outside, but also is genuinely still signed up for the project and still trying to keep it all going. because of course that's you know it's not really a political thing as in intervening on this policy or that policy or telling that policy doesn't work this policy doesn't work it's actually keeping the thing going day to day and making sure that he has access to information that's broadly true and that of course is is questionable but all those sort of behind the scenes thing that you need someone to be able to do and to the extent that it is still done then it does seem to be still very much about her.

15:02What's your read on this, Sarah? Well, she has said herself that she can control just about everything that happens in the White House and she's pretty pivotal as well, dealing with other ministries and cabinet ministers. She even goes up to Capitol Hill occasionally to try and push through legislation that Donald Trump wants. But she said she can control all of that, but not Donald Trump. So she keeps the machine of government going whilst he goes off on one, basically, whether it's on Truth Social or blurting things out at a press conference or in a speech. And I don't think she even tries to stop some of that kind of stuff.

15:39So she's interpreting his ideas and making them happen as well, understanding how to handle Donald Trump. And I suspect that means that she can probably tell him more of the cold, hard truth than anybody else around him. But you would still have to be pretty careful about that. And what's clear from some of the things that have been happening with Donald Trump recently is even when he is presented with the facts that show that a situation is not going his way or that he's misunderstood it, he tends not to believe them either. So even Susie Wiles, the person who's probably best placed to try and tell him that things are going badly or he's got the right end of the stick, I don't think even she is able to convince him of that.

16:19Also, don't you think her sort of secret weapon is that she doesn't have a presence on social media? She's not very visible, very deliberately so. And most of the people he ends up having a problem with try to sort of grow beyond him. And it feels like she's quite tactically stayed out of the limelight. And that's probably what's protected her a bit, I think. You know, you're not all following Susie Wiles on X every week. No, no, I think that's true. She's also had breast cancer and the associated treatments. I mean, that would have kind of taken her out of the loop for a bit or at least given her, you know, things that she needed to do that were outside the immediate ambit of the White House.

16:57And possibly, I mean, that's a terribly pressured job, that a real sort of 24-7 job. And she wouldn't have been able to address it completely 24-7. So I think there's an aspect as well. Let's move on. Thanks for that question, Phil. We've got a text that's come in from Josh in East Yorkshire. He says, please ask the lovely AmeriCast crew, where is Mitch McConnell and how long do his constituents have to wait until they can stop looking and replace him? Thanks to both you and them for all your work. Where to begin? Kevin's been posting about this as well on the Discord. So there's a conversation going on there.

17:34So there was a statement that was released on August the 6th to say that Mitch McConnell has been discharged from hospital. he then says earlier today i was discharged from the rehabilitation center to continue my recovery at home elaine and i are grateful for the many well wishes and support from friends colleagues and kentuckians and for the attentive care i've received from excellent doctors nurses therapists and hospital staff on the advice of my doctors i'll maintain an intensive regimen of physical therapy from home during the state work period and i'll continue to engage with my staff and colleagues on important senate business mariana why has this become like politician goes to hospital is not in itself normally a thing which captures the imagination of a particular corner of the internet.

18:16No although people are fascinated with as we've known with Joe Biden as we've known with Donald Trump with the kind of general health of I mean certainly presidents obviously Mitch McConnell is a slightly different kettle of fish and he's also someone who has been poorly in the past right like including that fool when he was leaving the Senate chamber and he used a wheelchair for a bit. The reason that this has spawned so much conversation is because the attempts to stop the speculation and conspiracy theory content, namely the releasing of this proof of life photo, which happened at the end of last month, and it shows him and his wife, and they're sitting there and they're smiling.

18:53It has become one of those ones that's just been absolutely AI'd to death. There's AI edits of it, there's Photoshop, there's showing Mitch McConnell in all and it's him just sitting there kind of like smiling in a hospital you know kind of looking okay-ish but obviously not not super well um and it has just triggered a whole range of like quite satirical you know objectively funny stuff even though him being poorly is not funny but uh it also means that people are like hang on there's something about this that feels a bit sort of hostage-esque I'm not very sure about it and that that I think is why people are still obsessed with this because you will have seen the memes even if you're you You don't know who Mitch McConnell is, probably.

19:35The other thing that's really important about it, but I have a feeling, Sarah might know this, I think the deadline has passed. So the whole thing was, can he be replaced if he's dead? Can he be replaced by the governor of his home state? And the governor of his home state, Kentucky, is, oddly, actually, is a Democrat. Yeah, I mean, if he dies, he will be replaced by the governor. what's passed is the deadline for him to voluntarily step down and somebody else be able to stand. It's too late to get another name on the ballot paper. So, yeah, so that's what passed. But that's the normal procedure, is that if a sitting senator dies, the governor picks the person to replace him, as happened with Lindsey Graham just a few weeks ago.

20:21His sister is sitting in the Senate at the moment as his replacement. It's so awful about, you know, Mitch McConnell, you know, of all the Republican senators has been around for such a long time and for many years was a hugely important senator. I think a lot of people felt genuinely sorry for it. And your political career and your kind of public life career ends in this bizarre thing with people holding up newspapers with a date on it. Well, let's try and end on a slightly more dignified note. Can we talk about Donald Trump's hair? Now that's very much dignified about that. Yeah, that has gone wild on social media.

20:59I mean, you've seen him up close, Sarah. What do you think's gone on there then? It's inexplicable, Matt. I have spent time relatively close to him where I'm supposed to be really, really carefully listening to what he's saying about the war with Iran or a deal with Israel or something. And sometimes you're just transfixed by looking at this confection on the top of his head. The only way you can work it out is that it must be some sort of comb over that he's absolutely covered in hairspray because it never, ever moves. And you can see that even if he's walking to a helicopter or something, it doesn't move.

21:32It is, I find it endlessly fascinating how he does it. And he does appear to do it himself. But speculation increased when he appeared last week at an event in Las Vegas with what seemed to be much fuller, shinier, bouncier, better styled and blonder hair than he had before. He had let it go white instead of dyeing it blonde anymore now that he's 80. But yeah, suddenly he had like, you know, a 50 year old's head of hair in Vegas. And it has stayed bouffant and well styled ever since. So people are assuming that it's a toupee, but I can't actually tell you that for sure. What's the Internet saying, Mariana?

22:11Oh, everyone's going bonkers about this. There's like all of these edits of him. Like it's incredibly exaggerated, like the most hair you've ever seen on a person's head. All of these AI edits and then him sort of like with other people with amazing hair. And then, yeah, I mean, it's to be expected. But he probably prefers these edits to some of the other ones he gets. Justin, you've got a good head of hair. What do you think has gone on there? I'm going to speak up for those men in later life who still have heads of hair. I just I think he is one of those things, one of those vanities. There are all sorts of things about him that he doesn't really fully explain.

22:52And he's had all sorts of peculiar things, hasn't he? Kind of marks on his hand and all the rest of it in recent years that haven't been really properly explained. But the hair thing, number one, they said it was a trick of the light. So, you know, you can believe that or not, that Las Vegas thing. But number two, he does. I mean, he's really open about it in the past, how his hair is his. I think he called it his brand once. And it is really important to him. So, you know, your brand can change over time, I suppose. I think that's true of you as well, Justin, isn't it? Justin does have quite luscious sort of locks.

23:25Yeah, it's my brand, definitely.

23:36well here we come off the air now with five live and matt chorley he has gone happily off to do other things but we're all still here and i suppose the one thing that hasn't come up that we really ought to talk about sarah is hunter biden joe biden's son because he's given this interview to the bbc and it's a wide-ranging interview and an interesting interview on all manner of subjects. What would you pick out as being the things that we ought to think about? So the most controversial things and the newsmaking things, I think were him talking about the pardon that his father, Joe Biden, gave him on his last day in office and saying he couldn't be prosecuted for anything that had happened previously over a fairly wide space of time.

24:17And also talking about Joe Biden's health, because of course we know that he is suffering from cancer. That was confirmed by Jill Biden recently. But we've got some more details about that from Hunter Biden, who also talked about his drug addiction, the impact it had on his family, some other quite personal things he was very open about. But it was the pardon and Joe Biden's health that were the things that people have really seized on. Let's hear him on the pardon. Was it good for our Constitution? Was it good for the American people? Was it good for my dad's legacy? No, on all counts. It was it was not it was it's something that is easily criticized and for good reason.