Donald Trump's BBC interview in full and the story behind it

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1:16Hello, AmeriCasters. Just in here, we have a special treat for you. It's a BBC interview with President Donald Trump, someone who doesn't always speak highly of the BBC or appreciate it, but does appreciate one correspondent in particular, and that is the BBC's chief North America correspondent, Gary O'Donoghue. And that is because Gary was in Butler, Pennsylvania, a year or so ago when the assassination attempt was made. And Gary's reporting was used by all the American networks, partly because he had the most extraordinary eyewitness interviews. and it was much appreciated by the White House, who understood, I think, that the BBC is in the business of telling the truth, not necessarily being pro or anti anyone.

2:02Anyway, so Donald Trump appears to have a thing for Gary O'Donoghue and the White House called Gary while he was at home, asleep, telling him that Donald Trump was on the line. It's supposed to be a five-minute interview. They chatted for much longer. And you can hear it all now on our sister podcast, Newscast.

2:23Music radio podcasts. I'm here with the president. Here you go. Mr. President. Hi, Gary. How are you? I'm very well, sir. Thank you very much for sparing some time. Good. You covered us very fairly. Appreciate it. That was the White House calling our colleague Gary O'Donoghue so that he could do an interview with Donald Trump. And now I'm going to do an interview with Gary. Hello. Hello, Adam. Nice to see you. What was that moment like? Well, it was surreal because I was actually asleep. It wasn't the middle of the night, as some people have said. It was early evening, but I was asleep in my apartment, knackered, to be honest.

2:59And I'd been trying for this interview for a while, and I thought it had gone away. I thought the point had passed. And I got the call, and in my sort of rush, I actually managed to hang up on the President of the United States. But fortunately, they were good enough to ring straight back, and we got into it. Gary, this sounds like an anxiety dream, but it's actually an episode of Newscast. And so interesting is your interview. We've actually made some special Newscast opening titles to mark this moment. Have a listen. Newscast. Newscast from the BBC. Thank you, Gary. It's a great honour. I really like the Prime Minister a lot, even though he's a Liberal.

3:35They had a stretcher ready to go. I said, no, thank you. So what the hell was that all about? I'm not done with him, but I'm disappointed in him. I like to think about it as little as possible. I trust almost nobody. to be honest with you. It's Adam in the newscast studio, and we're chatting to the now famous, well, he was already quite famous, but he's even more famous now, Gary O'Donoghue. Gary, thank you very much for joining us. Oh, pleasure, pleasure always. I mean, I'm honoured, because that's what Donald Trump said about chatting to you. So we're in the same boat. Explain to us how this interview came about in the first place.

4:09Well, in many ways, it's a sort of standard thing that you and I have done all our sort of journalistic lives. You decide you think you want something to happen, And I decided that because I'd been at that attempt on Donald Trump's life a year ago this past Sunday, that I would see if I could get an interview with him about the anniversary of that. And I worked a couple of channels that I knew. I mean, a couple of people I knew and talked to a few people, waited, waited, texted back and forth with a few people. And it wasn't a no. It was never a no. So it always seemed to be a question of when it could be made to be possible to happen.

4:49I was sat ready for it to happen on Sunday night. I was told I was going to get a call from Air Force One momentarily. And it didn't come. And I had an apology saying, sorry, something came up. Because if you're the president of the United States, stuff comes up, right? So not surprising. And by Monday night, I thought it had gone away. But I was wrong. and the work and the effort paid off. And by way of the context, I mean, a year ago, you were there famously on the ground taking cover after the shots had been fired. But actually, that was a moment that the MAGA supporters came to view the BBC and the international media in a slightly different light.

5:28Yeah, I mean, it's difficult to measure that sort of thing, but I hope so. I certainly, in the months after that, in the run-up to the election in November, when I would go to rallies, People would come over and say, you're the guy who, you know, reported that night from Butler. You're the guy who found the eyewitnesses that had seen the shooter, the guy who found the witnesses that tried to warn the Secret Service about the threat to the president's life. I think, I certainly hope that made some difference because, you know, part of our job is to go out there and talk to everyone. and you know sometimes there are audiences and voters who are hard to reach and sometimes you know news organizations like the BBC like all news organizations you know don't try hard enough to find those voters that you need to reach and I felt that that had changed the weather a little bit when talking to those MAGA supporters we were still let's be clear mainstream media which in this country is an insult but just not quite as mainstream media as some of the others and this is going to sound like I'm downplaying your interview and I absolutely do not intend it in that way at all because it's a massive, massive global scoop.

6:39But Donald Trump phoning up journalists, that's a part of his shtick, isn't it? It absolutely is. It absolutely is a part of the way he operates. He has always believed and always said that he's the best communicator in his administration. He is utterly comfortable in that environment. He can riff in a press conference for ages. They can go on for ages. And he can call people up out of the blue. I mean, this was more formal than that, but he calls people up out of the blue. He did that to a whole bunch of journalists after Elon Musk's departure to get his line out there pretty early in the morning on that occasion, I remember.

7:23So, yeah, this is part of his thing and it's part of him being a sort of non-politician politician as he still sees himself as. And Gary, we'll play nearly the whole interview in a second, but just before we do, I mean, I hope this isn't a lame question, but how did you approach interviewing Donald Trump? Because to some people, he's a very slippery character. There's a million and one things you could ask him. He sometimes doesn't stick to his point. What was your kind of mindset for how you were going to talk to him? Well, I thought about some of the areas that I wanted to talk. I had written some notes, but those notes, God knows where they were when I was scrabbling to get up and answer the phone.

8:06But they were in my head. And I knew that just trying to sit back a bit and to place careful, and let's say, let's be careful, respectful questions, that I actually was there to try and elicit some things, elicit some thinking, to see the process of thinking in his head. And so I decided to keep things very short. I kept my questions very short. I waited. The thing you have to do with Donald Trump is there are moments where he stops and you can tell he's listening and you wait for that moment to intersperse a very quick question. And he's responsive enough and quick enough on his feet to take that on and take that where the conversation goes.

8:53I thought I would get maybe five minutes with him. We ended up with, you know, almost 20. Some of it was off the record, which we haven't used and we haven't broadcast. But I would say three quarters of it was on the record. And it's there for everyone to take a look at. And we've taken out the bits where he either mishears the question and goes off on a different tangent or talks about his hotels. So we thought we wouldn't bother newscasters with the bit where he does some marketing for his Trump properties in the UK, Ireland and elsewhere. Gary, and before we hear it, two other questions. How did you record it?

9:28Because that would be my worst nightmare, like my phone ringing in my flat and be like, oh, I've got no kit. Well, my problem is I always have too much kit. I'm a bit of a sort of digital nerd when it comes to audio recorders, which sort of paralyzes me in the end because I never know which one I want to use. Actually, on this occasion, I can tell you that I used a little tiny DJI mic that is often used by those TikTokers and vloggers. You know, you see them holding them up like this, these little ones. And that records straight onto the device, and it's tiny, and I just put it next to the phone on the table in front of me, so it picked up me and the phone call, and it was a purely ambient recording, nothing fancy about it at all.

10:14and fortunately I pressed record. Yes, well done. And also so on trend, Gary. And last question before we finally hear this amazing conversation. What number comes up on your phone when the White House calls? Do you know it's them? I'm not telling you what number came up on my phone because that would be more than my job was. Don't worry, I'm not going to try and call it and get my own interview. Although it was maybe worth a chance. Anyway, right, Gary, thanks for setting the scene so brilliantly. Let's hear the conversation. So just picture the scene. Gary's just woken up a number which he's not revealing is flashed up on his phone he's getting all his kit ready and he's plunging into this conversation with Donald Trump.

10:51I'm here with the president here you go. Mr. President. Hi Gary how are you? I'm very well sir thank you very much for sparing some time. Good you covered us very fairly appreciate it. Well I wanted to ask you briefly about that to start with I know it's not a topic you like talking about very much but I wanted to ask you the moment you realized what had happened and then the moment you realized you survived what was your immediate thought sir well it happened very quickly and it was you know beyond quick actually so I'm not sure I had any conscious uh thought other than to say that I had to let the people know because I knew They must have thought that it was a disaster.

11:37And I could tell by that it was like dead silence and everything. We had 55 ,000 people and it was dead silence. And so, you know, I assumed that they expected the worst. And so I had to let them know I was OK, which is what I did. That's why I tried to get up as quick as possible. And I didn't want to be taken out by a stretcher. They had a stretcher ready to go. I said, no, thank you. I actually had a big argument with them. They wanted me on a stretcher, and I said, nope, I'm not doing that. So we had to let them know we were okay. You know, for the country, it's my obligation, right? Did it change you, what happened?

12:18Well, I like to think about it as little as possible, to be honest. I don't like to think about, did it change me? Because it could have changed a lot of people. I just don't... Do you understand what I'm saying? I don't want to think about it. It's like, I get it. The power of positive thinking or the power of positive non thinking. But so I don't, I don't like dwelling on it. Because if I did, it would be, you know, might be life changing. I don't want it to be that it was a crazy moment. and it was something that has happened and ended. And I went on to win the presidency. I don't know if that had anything to do with it, to be honest, but I went on to win the presidency.

13:08We're having a great presidency. You've had an extraordinary year. Yeah. And you've been on a roll very much recently. One thing I was keen to ask you is these world leaders, they do treat you differently to the way they treated you first time around. Why do you think that is? Well, I think they think it's maybe not all luck. You know, it's like they think there's a lot of talent involved. When you do it twice, it's a big difference. I also think that, you know, over the years they've gotten to know me. This is not an easy crowd to break into, you understand. These are smart people heading up very, very successful, generally, countries.

13:52You know, they're all Germany and France, Spain and, you know, big countries. And, you know, I've gotten to know them over 30 years, and I think they've come to respect me and my decision-making. How do you feel, though, when they're kind of obviously, sometimes they're very obvious in their flattery, sometimes over-obvious in their flattery? Yeah, well, I think they're just trying to be nice. You mentioned that Russia was one of the things that was still problematic. You've said you were four times close to a deal with Putin. Yeah, I thought I had a deal four times. Are you done with him? I mean, I know that sounds a simplistic thing.

14:35No, I'm not done, but I'm disappointed in him. But I'm not done with him, but I'm disappointed in him. How do you get him to... I thought we had a deal done four times and then you go home and you see he just attacked a nursing home. or something in Kiev. I said, what the hell was that all about? How do you get him to stop the bloodshed? Because I know you've said repeatedly the bloodshed is the thing. We're working at it, Gary. So far, I'm very disappointed. We'll have a great conversation. I'll say, that's good. I think we're close to getting it done. And then he'll knock down a building in Kiev.

15:09Do you trust him? I trust almost nobody. to be honest with you. So how do you deal with someone you can't trust? Well, it's not a question of that. It's like I'm disappointed that this hasn't been done. And, you know, I'm really protecting Russian soldiers and Ukrainian soldiers. I'm protecting Russian and Ukrainian soldiers and a lot of people from Ukraine. The deal we made last week is amazing. The, you know, the 5%. Yes. Nobody heard that was possible. And it amounts to over a trillion dollars a year. so they'll be able to buy all the equipment they want for. On that deal, which again, you're right, no one expected that, the 5%, you once said that NATO was obsolete.

15:59I think NATO is now becoming the opposite of that. I do think it was passed and it was very unfair because the United States paid for almost 100 % of it. But now they're paying their own bills and I think that's much better. And what about the collective defence thing? Do you believe in that still? I do. Yeah, I think collective defence is fine. You're against a large country and they have a lot of smaller countries, but some of those countries are, in a sense, larger than Russia. You know, if you look at the numbers, the economies are much larger than Russia. Can I ask you about Britain? Because you're having the state visit in September.

16:41I know you're looking forward to that. I do, I do. I look forward to it. What is Britain's role for you in the world? Well, I think it's a great place. I have property there. You know, I own Turnberry. I was there with you the day after the Brexit vote when you were on the course there. I think that's right. Can you believe it? And people asked me whether or not Brexit was going to make it or not, and I called it right. Do you remember? You did call it right, so you did, yes. I called it exactly right. Hey, let me ask you, if they took that vote again today, would it be a similar vote? Well, you know, it was pretty much a 50-50 vote in any case.

17:17Almost stayed there, right? Yeah, but it's, you know, it's one of those things that they're not going to revisit for a generation because you can't... No, well, that was the deal. They wouldn't redo it for 50 years or something like that. Do you think Britain's made the most of Brexit, though, that it could? No, I think it's been on the sloppy side. But I think it's getting straightened out. I really like the Prime Minister a lot, even though he's a Liberal. I think he's, you know, he did a good trade deal with us, which a lot of companies, a lot of countries haven't been able to do. But he did a good trade deal.

17:54One of the things that previous presidents have done on state visits is to make a speech to Parliament. Parliament isn't sitting in September. Would you like them to bring Parliament back? They can recall Parliament so you could make a speech to Parliament. No, I think let them go and have a good time. I don't want that. That would be making the speech pretty negatively, Gary. What do you want to achieve when you go then? Well, we're going to see when I go the first time because I'm going early. Yes. And we're going to have a meeting with, a state meeting with the Prime Minister. And that's going to be up in Aberdeen country.

18:34This is later this month, yeah. Which is the oil capital of Europe. They should bring it back too. They have so much oil there. They should get rid of the windmills and bring back the oil because the windmills are really detrimental to the beauty of Scotland and every other place they go up. So you're going to meet the Prime Minister when you go in July, but in September, what do you want to achieve with the state visit? I think just I want to have a good time and respect King Charles because he's a great gentleman. You know, I know him from early in the first term. Yes. And I know him fairly well, and he's a great gentleman.

19:12You know he went to open the Canadian Parliament, and a lot of people saw that as a sort of an endorsement of Canada's independence. How did you see that act by him? Well, I didn't view it as anything. Look, they're wrapped up with Canada, so what's he going to do? He has no choice. But we're negotiating with Canada right now, and we'll see how that all works out. I think it's going to work out very well, actually. But no, he would have to, basically, he was very respectful. I thought he was very good, very respectful. So you didn't mind him going up there? No, not at all. And in terms of Britain's sort of role in the world, it sits between the US and Europe.

19:58Sometimes it tries to act that mediation role. Do you think it achieves that? Do you think there is this special relationship that British politicians often claim there is with American military? I do. I think, you know, one of the problems with NATO, now this could change. We changed NATO a lot in the last, a month ago. But one of the problems with NATO is I said, you know, we have to fight for them, but will they actually fight for us if we had a war? And I'm not sure I can say it, but I will say this. I believe that the UK would fight with us. There's something about it. It's just been so many years, and I really think the relationship is just a really great one.

20:38I think that they would be with us. I'm not sure that a lot of the other countries would be, which is unfair because we pay far more than anybody else. But, no, there's a special relationship we have. Well, look, that's why I've made a deal with them and I haven't made a deal. I mean, I've made some other deals, but for the most part, in terms of your competitors and in terms of the European Union, I haven't made a deal. There's a special bond that I have with... And you have many different names. You go by England if you want to cut off a couple of areas. And you go UK and you have Britain and you have Great Britain.

21:22You got more names than any other country in history, I think. But no, the UK is very special. So, and it's been there for a long time. Yeah, they have been a really true ally. Can I ask you a little bit about your domestic agenda? You were very clear about your priorities during the campaign. I followed you around, and there's no one who could argue you didn't tell people what you wanted to do. Are you sensing, are you feeling any frustration about being able to achieve your goals in terms of immigration? Clearly, you know, there are not people coming across the border. But in terms of deportations, the speed, the mechanisms, perhaps sweeping people up who you wouldn't want to see deported, is the mechanism working for you?

22:12No, I think we've done a great job. I mean, number one is the people pouring in. And as you know, last month it was zero. Now, even I find it hard to believe it could be zero. But the people that do these reports are liberal. And they said it was zero, zero people for the month. Which is pretty amazing. But no, I think that I've much more than fulfilled the promises that I've made. I think I've fulfilled more promises than I've made, actually. I've done actually more than the promises I've made. How many deportations in this second term of yours would mark success for you? What number would mark success?

22:53Well, we have a lot of them. We have all of the countries that I stopped from going to war, maybe first and foremost. We have the big, beautiful bill, the one big, beautiful bill, which is the largest bill of its kind ever, ever approved. We have the largest tax cuts in history, the largest regulation cuts in history. I've rebuilt the military. We've done a lot more than I said I was going to be doing. But in terms of deportations, deporting people who are in the country illegally, what would be a success number for you? Would it have to be in the millions to be a success? Well, I want to get the criminals out immediately.

23:35That's what we're doing. And we're winning a lot of court cases which allow us to do that. In terms of the numbers, you know, over the four years, would it have to be? Well, I don't put a number on, but I want to get the criminals out quickly. And we're doing that, as you know. We're bringing them to El Salvador and lots of other places. But you've been frustrated by the courts, haven't you? Well, I have, but I won. You know, I mean, we've won all these cases in appeal. We've had some judges that are radical left lunatics.

24:08And every case has been overturned. And when people accuse you of defying the judiciary, what do you say? I said, no, I have too much respect for it to defy it. I have great respect for the judiciary. And you can see that. That's why I'm winning on appeal. So may I ask you, looking back, what would be the key for your legacy for you? What do you think would define your legacy for you? Saving America. I think America is now a great country, and it was a dead country one year ago. And that's been told to me by many leaders of the countries, you know? Thank you very much for your time, Mr. President.

24:49Thank you, Gary. It's a great honour.

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25:58Is the hit Netflix show Emily in Paris just harmless, escapist TV? Or is Emily ruining Paris? I'm Asma Khalid, and I host the Global Story podcast from the BBC. The president of France has described the show as super positive for his country, soft power through cinema. But is TV tourism good for a city? For more, listen to The Global Story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.