Have the Democrats found a new strategy to scare Trump?

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0:41Anthony Zurcher:That's O-D-O-O dot com. With the new Schwab Teen Investor Account, teens can gain hands-on investing experience and build positive money habits. It's an account co-owned by you and your teen, so you can monitor and engage with the account while your teen learns how to invest and manage money. Learn more at schwab.com. The state of Maine, with its tiny population, surrounded mostly by Canada and by the sea, is launching itself into the very centre of America's political debate, because Maine is about to play a major role in who has control of the US Senate, and it's happening now. The Democratic candidate likely to go through is young, is controversial, and perhaps even a little bit Trumpy.

1:26a candidate like him would previously have been unthinkable in the party. What is changing and what does it mean for the future of American politics? Welcome to AmeriCast.

1:40Anthony Zurcher:AmeriCast. AmeriCast from BBC News. You hear that sound? Oh, I think when I hear that sound, it reminds me of money. We didn't start this war, but under President Trump, we are finishing it. This is a big cover-up and this administration is engaged in it. This guy has Trump arrangement syndrome. I have four words for you. Turn the volume up.

2:06Hello, it's Justin in the worldwide headquarters of AmeriCast in London, England.

2:10Anthony Zurcher:And it's Anthony in the American headquarters of AmeriCast in Washington, D.C. And Anthony, we've had a question from Rob in Somerset. Why are you getting so animated about the midterms when they are seven months away? Surely so much can change in that time, especially given Trump's unpredictability. Yeah, I mean, I guess so, Rob. But the reality is that the candidates who are going to be on the ballot in November are being chosen starting really last month. Then that's going to define the contours of these races. So, yes, a lot can change. And the party that's up or down can change based on the economy and the war and everything else.

2:48Anthony Zurcher:But the people who are going to be campaigning, the people who are making their pitch to the voters, we're finding out more about them now. And in finding out more about them, I think we're going to find out just more about the parties that are choosing them, what the Democrats are looking for in candidates and what the Republicans are looking for in their candidates. Yeah, exactly right. And that's why we're going to concentrate today on a particular battle in the state of Maine, but also on a particular candidate in that battle. So he's not yet the Democratic candidate for the Senate seat in Maine, though it does look as if he is going to be that candidate.

3:23And he brings with him all manner of controversy. And he's a fascinating man in himself. And we'll get to Graham Plattner in just a second. Before we do, though, Anthony, I was last in Maine when George H.W. Bush was president. And I have a T-shirt, the summer White House in Kennebunkport. At least I say I have a T-shirt. I think my daughter's borrowed it and she hasn't given it back. So if she's listening, she might think of doing that. But that was a long time ago. And my memory of it is that it's mainly forest and beautiful, beautiful, staggeringly jagged coastline. Am I missing anything?

4:02Anthony Zurcher:No, it is beautiful country. I mean, Kennebumport, if you talk to Mainers, they'll say that's downstate and that's practically Massachusetts. It's not real Maine. To get to real Maine, you have to drive. It goes on and on. And as you mentioned, it gets rugged. It is sparsely populated, very independent minded people there who who don't live in big cities and cherish their kind of outsider way of life. A lot of lobster fishermen, a lot of people depend on the sea for their livelihood and a lot of people who move there or live there to get away from the rest of the 49 continental states. It's quite a working class state, isn't it?

4:41Particularly inland, people doing lumber jobs, I suppose a bit of tourism. What else is there in Maine?

4:48Anthony Zurcher:Not much else. Tourism, some vacation homes, heavy on the maritime industries. Also, as you mentioned, lumber. It is, as you say, a sparsely populated state. And that affects its politics, to be quite honest. Maine tends to go to the beat of its own drum. There's an old saying, as go Maine, so goes the nation. But the reality is Maine doesn't really reflect the mainstream politics. likes to think of themselves as separate from a lot of the kind of the national politics, which is one of the reasons why this race is going to be interesting. Susan Collins, who is the Republican senator from Maine, she is the only Republican statewide in Congress from all of New England.

5:36Anthony Zurcher:So she's kind of like the last holdout. But she has been, over time, despite repeated Democratic challenges, very popular. She has beaten back Democratic challenges. In 2020, there was a candidate who was a member of Congress from Maine who ran against her, and she beat her handily. She's won every race she's had. That reflects that Maine is a different kind of state, even as it is a very important state, will be a very important state for who controls the United States Senate after November's midterm elections. Right. OK, so the Democrats then have a choice to make when it comes to who they select in the primary that happens pretty soon to be the person potentially with a real chance this November, you're saying, of getting Susan Collins out.

6:27And we should say Susan Collins is in her late 70s, isn't she? I mean, she's been there since. Early 70s. Early 70s. All right. I apologize to her. But still old.

6:37Anthony Zurcher:Maybe not old for the Senate, not Senate old, but still, you know, when there's been a lot of talk about generational change and the gerontocracy, she would serve. She said this will be her last term, but it's a six year Senate term. She would be in the Senate until she's 79. So the choice the Democrats make then is between someone who is herself definitely in her late 70s and this younger guy. And it looks, doesn't it, as if they're going to go for the younger guy, this man called Graham Plattner, who brings with him all manner of controversies and potential pitfalls, but is apparently very likely to win.

7:19What's going on then in the state of Maine when it comes to the Democrats' choices?

7:24Anthony Zurcher:Yeah, it's been a fascinating race to watch because, as you said, Plattner, he's a novice in politics. He's been an active voice maybe in some grassroots movements, but he hasn't run for elected office, I believe, certainly not on a statewide level ever before. He comes from an oyster farming background, which I talk about peak Maine kind of a job, and has played that up. He's ex-military. And as you also mentioned, he has a bit of a past that people have been digging through. He's made controversial comments on social media, on Reddit, including saying that women shouldn't get blackout drunk because it could expose them to sexual assault.

8:09Anthony Zurcher:He has a tattoo or had a tattoo on his chest dating back to his military days, which kind of looks or looked like he's since had it removed. looks like a Nazi skull. And he only got it removed a few years ago, once it seemed like he was going to be running for office. And he's made homophobic comments in the past. So, you know, check definitely the kind of history that you would think normally in a democratic race would be damaging, if not fatal to a candidate. Yes, you'd think one of those things at least. Yeah, One of them might be damaging. The whole lot of them would be terminal. But it's not this time around.

8:49And I'm right in saying, aren't I, that at the moment he seems to be doing incredibly well.

8:53Anthony Zurcher:Yeah, I've been following the polls in this race, and he has had a comfortable lead pretty much throughout the past year. And a comfortable lead over Janet Mills, who is the governor of Maine, who has won statewide there, is very popular. I don't know if you remember, Justin. I think it was last year Donald Trump invited all the governors to the White House, part of the National Governors Association meetings. And it was Janet Mills who was in Washington, D.C. last year for the National Governors Association meetings. They got into a spat with Donald Trump in the White House. And we can listen to a little bit of it now, but it definitely elevated her platform nationally.

9:33Anthony Zurcher:Is Maine here, the governor of Maine? Are you not going to comply with it? I'm complying with state and federal law. Well, we are the federal law. Well, you better do it. You better do it because you're not going to get any federal funding at all if you don't. And by the way, your population, even though it's somewhat liberal, although I did very well there, your population doesn't want men playing in women's sports. So you better comply because otherwise you're not getting any federal funding. I'll see you in court. Every state. Good. I'll see you in court. I look forward to that. That should be a real easy one.

10:07and enjoy your life after governor, because I don't think you'll be in elected politics. Well, he might be right, actually, on that. That was a row, of course, about whether biological males should play in girls' sports, an issue where, frankly, she is probably not in the majority of American thinking, but it's an issue she chose to have a fight with the American president in quite early in his term and very publicly. And it was the fight, it seems to me, Anthony, rather than the issue that mattered to her. The fact that she could be seen to be standing up to him and doing it really obviously and doing it kind of forcefully and that really mattered to her.

10:44And that's why she thinks that she can be the candidate this time round, that she is the sort of anti-Trump. She's able to be forceful with him. She's run the state, et cetera, et cetera. And that's her pitch. It is interesting, isn't it, though, that she is backed by a lot of the party bigwigs. So you think of the minority leader, the Senate leader, Chuck Schumer, but also other moderates, if I can put that word in inverted commas, like Andy Beshear, the governor of Kentucky. So a Democrat who is used to winning and able to win and win well in a broadly Republican area, which obviously Kentucky is.

11:27So that sort of wing of the party is very much falling in behind her. But frankly, it doesn't seem to be doing her any good.

11:34Anthony Zurcher:Not doing her any good in Maine. On paper, she looks like the perfect candidate, right? I mean, she has won statewide in Maine. She has stood up to Donald Trump, as you mentioned, which is something that a lot of Democrats seem to like. She has a capability of raising money up for this race because she has established fundraising networks. And so you can see why people like Chuck Schumer and Andy Beshear and the rest of the Democratic establishment think that she would be the perfect one to knock off Susan Collins, who has had a stranglehold on the seat for quite some time. So I think maybe voters in Maine are wanting to try something different.

12:14Anthony Zurcher:I think the other big issue, as we've alluded to already in this race, is the issue of age. She will be 79 on Inauguration Day in 2027. She's 78 right now. So she would be serving into her mid 80s if she wins this seat. Graham Plattner, I believe, is 41. So the contrast there for Democrats. And that's something I've heard over and over again as I've been traveling around the country this year and last year. The concern for Democrats is they want new blood, new generation. And I think that is definitely helping Plattner in this as well as the fact that Plattner is kind of an iconoclast, someone different, someone who tells it like it is, who says things that are controversial.

12:55Anthony Zurcher:But like we've seen with Donald Trump, that can be a benefit. Saying what you think and saying things that sometimes ticks people off, that wins over voters because they don't think that you're a professional politician, that you're modulating your message just to win their vote. So it has been an interesting kind of demonstration of these cross currents in the Democratic Party. Well, let's hear a bit from him, starting with his campaign ad. My name is Graham Platner, and I'm running for U.S. Senate in Maine to defeat Susan Collins. A decade of military service going overseas. Farming oysters to feed my community.

13:30Anthony Zurcher:Diving to lend a hand to other fishermen. Trying to start a family. But everywhere I've gone, it seems like the fabric of what holds us together is being ripped apart by billionaires and corrupt politicians. Profiting off of destroying our environment. Driving our families into poverty. And crushing the middle class. I did four infantry tours in the Marine Corps and the Army. I'm not afraid to name an enemy, and the enemy is the oligarchy. It's the billionaires who pay for it and the politicians who sell us out. Right, so he's very much an economic populist, to put it mildly, and he's backed, isn't he, by Bernie Sanders, who everyone will recognise, the former presidential candidate himself, who's on the progressive left of the party, by Elizabeth Warren too, isn't he?

14:11So he's got heavyweight backers of his own on the left of the party, But the thing that really strikes you about that advert, as you were saying, Anthony, he is a non-politician politician. He has nothing to do with politics or the political process. He is coming from another place. And that is the fascinating thing, isn't it, about the choice that the Democrats are making in Maine and why this choice does matter for the whole nation, doesn't it? Because it's a choice in a way a bit like the Zora Mamdani choice. I mean, they're not the same person and it's not the same setup by any means at all.

14:50But you just throw everything that you've got out of the window and you start again and you say, I want a communicator and I want someone who excites people. And that above all, never mind the policies, that above all is what matters.

15:04Anthony Zurcher:Yeah. And that sells in Maine in particular. There's a congressman, he's retiring, he's leaving Congress now, but represents the rural half of Maine. Jared Golden, who is not Graham Plattner. He's a centrist, a moderate, but he presents similarly. He's ex-military. The first time I met him was at a reception and he was standing there holding a can of beer with his youngest baby in a Bjorn on his chest. He was wearing short sleeves and had an arm sleeve of tattoos going all the way up to his shoulder. I did not recognize him as a congressman, but he's the kind of guy who can win in Maine and that Mainers seem to connect with.

15:47Anthony Zurcher:So in that presentation and the style, if not the political substance, those are two people who seem to have really caught the eye of Maine voters and appeals. And I mean, we can look at others like John Fetterman, say what you want about him. That's kind of how he ran in Pennsylvania successfully. And I think actually that's something to think about. It's a good point for why some Democrats, some liberals are suspicious about someone who doesn't have this track record, like Graham Plattner. It's like, is he going to get into the Senate and like Fetterman, maybe start voting against Democrats, be too independent?

16:25Let's listen to what Graham Plattner himself says. So this is him defending himself against these criticisms, defending himself against those who are attacking him for the things that he has done in his past, starting with his comments on sexual assault. And he was talking to Pod Save America last year.

16:45Anthony Zurcher:I didn't know what I was talking about. At this point, I had just gotten out of the infantry. It's important. My time in the service was in the infantry. At that point, it was an all-male branch. I had only recently separated, and my frame of reference was that world. And that was not a world in which, frankly, I had very little interaction with women in the service. I am not a secret Nazi. Actually, if you read through my Reddit comments, I think you can pretty much figure out where I stand on Nazism and anti-Semitism and racism in general. I would say a lifelong opponent. We went ashore and split Croatia, myself and a few of the other machine gun squad leaders, and we got very inebriated.

17:35Anthony Zurcher:And we did what Marines on Liberty do, and we decided to go get a tattoo. And we went to a tattoo parlor in Split, Croatia, and we chose a terrifying-looking skull and crossbones off the wall because we were Marines and, you know, skulls and crossbones are a pretty standard military thing. At no point in this entire experience of my life did anybody ever once say, hey, you're a Nazi. It never came up. Until we got wind that in the opposition research, somebody was shopping the idea that I was a secret Nazi with a hidden Nazi tattoo. and I can honestly say that if I was trying to hide it, I've not been doing a very good job for the past 18 years.

18:22The thing that fascinates me there, Anthony, is when he says opposition research, he's actually talking about Janet Mills, isn't he? So the viciousness with which the fight has been fought on the Democratic side, certainly by her against him, has taken some breaths away.

18:39Anthony Zurcher:Yeah, and I think it's a reflection of how high the stakes are here. This is a Senate seat that Democrats really need to win if they want to have any hope of taking back the United States Senate. They'd have to flip four seats. And the two that are the most obvious are North Carolina, which the Democrat Governor Roy Cooper, former Governor Roy Cooper, doing quite well in, and Maine. And then you have to start looking at places like Texas or Alaska or Ohio or Iowa. So it's much more slim picking. So Maine has got a big target on it. So the Democrats really want to win this. And this is bringing up all of that debate about what a winning candidate in this party looks like in 2026.

19:20Anthony Zurcher:Janet Mills is an experienced politician. She, I'm sure, wants to win this seat. She has people who think that she's the best candidate. She says she's the best one to take on Trump. But then you also have progressives who are seeing this as a line in the sand. This is their chance to capitalize on the victory of Zofran Mamdani that you mentioned, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, other prominent progressives. And not only to be able to notch a win, but to notch a win in a swing state, in a battleground state, to show that their populist economic platform can be one that can win key races for the Democrats.

20:02Anthony Zurcher:And they're not going to be tanking this. This is not some sort of an ideological battle. This is a practical battle that they can win. OK, so the stakes are high. But even when the stakes are high, I must say, I'll ask you this in a second, Anthony, but it really surprised me when I was going through some of the ads that Janet Mills has put up against Graham Patner. Just the viciousness, the personal attack of it all seemed to me to be, well, if not off the scale, then highly unusual. unusual. And you might tell me in a second that I'm wrong in this, but let's just listen to one of the things, one of the attack ads that Janet Mills has been playing again and again on television in the state of Maine about her opponent.

20:48Anthony Zurcher:Did you know Graham Plattner wrote that women worried about rape need to quote, not get so up. They wind up having sex with someone they don't mean to disgusting. Plattner wrote to avoid rape. Women should quote, act like an adult for sake. Graham Plattner. Seriously, we blame the victim. That's a horrible thing to say. disqualifying i have not seen this he's a bully this guy gives off a vibe just no way i could vote for you no graham plattner the closer you look the worse it gets i'm janet mills and i approve this message i mean that's a pretty vicious attack ad uh i mean i've seen a lot of campaigns and a lot of nasty attack ads that's that is definitely up there they're using his words against him and part of the reason is that uh plattner is a political novice so and he's running on who he is as as much as what he wants to do i mean we heard the the ad he had before talking about being an oyster farmer talking about his military background so i think the the playbook for taking down someone who is running on their personality on their on their character is to go straight after that now you know is this going to be one of those instances where the two of them tear each other apart.