Footballer Who Chased Violence as a Hooligan - Karl Colley Tells His Story

58:12You're going to get caught, you know. And then it was obviously we played Leeds. And then I got nicked outside Sheffield train station fighting with Leeds. And again, this section obviously nicked me. And I gave a false name and address. So on the Monday morning, I've like turned up, got released, got turned up for training. and like i've walked past um the uh the boot room and the laundry room and the woman says oh there's a meeting upstairs for you at 10 o 'clock i'm like okay now if there's a meeting upstairs for you at 10 o 'clock it's something fucking serious in boardroom like whatever so then ron reed one uh trainers come and he says oh i'm in this meeting at 10 o 'clock what you fucking done so i'm like i've done no i've done no mate so he's like you must have because there's a meeting at 10 o 'clock and i'm involved so what have you done before we go in just give me heads up i said I've done no, honestly.

58:59So then gets in there and he's like, Derek Doula with the chairman, Terry Robinson's chief exec, Neil Warnock and a couple of others. So we sat down in the chair and he's basically just going through all this stuff and he just said, look, what do you want to be here? Do you want to be a footballer or an hooligan? And I just said like, oh, good question because it's fucking shit here. I said, so probably an hooligan. Now, I regret that saying that. but it were that bad at chef united i mean there's a lot of politics when i'm chef united what i've talked about and other stuff in regards to the contract to sign for chef united the way where i did the contracts because my agent walked out because i took a massive pay cut he just said you're not fucking signing for that your money's doubled at newcastle this this season and you're fucking signing for whatever and he just said you're not doing that and i just went well i'll be all right because they've said they'll renegotiate in six months give me a new contract and I'll piss it here because I've just come from Newcastle like playing in reserves or whatever into the championship so I thought well I'll piss it so me so me my agent says look can we have a word outside so we went outside and he fucking just got in the car and fucked off just left me so I'm like stood outside boardroom like what do I do here so I just walked back in and I said look I'll sign so I think that's where Warner wanted me that kind of thing do you know what I mean getting you on the cheap yeah so I signed and it was a two-year deal, renegotiate after six months.

1:00:28But what I didn't know is two days later when I was in the ticket office sorting some tickets out, Terry Robinson, the chief exec, walked through and he just said, oh, are you fitting in, Carl? You all right? So I'm like, yeah, I'm good, mate. And he says, do you know how much we've got to pay Newcastle on your first team appearance? Sar says, no, Terry. And he went, 75 grand and just fucked off, just walked off. So he like stayed with me and I remember getting home and having my tea with my dad and I just said, dad terry omis has pulled me today he says he says we've got to they've got to pay newcastle 75 grand for my first team of paintings and my dad just like dropped his knife and fork and he went that's you not playing then innit so straight away no because chef united didn't have that money but again from what i was talking to bobby robson about when he said look we're not letting you for cheap they put 250 grand on it a quarter million quid but the first installment as soon as i put a shirt on for chef united first team was 75 grand chef united didn't have 75 grand why are you saying you then i've no idea i've no idea still to this day i'm just thinking it was just a bad deal for everybody involved but i were desperate to come back for me to sign for chef united were massive because obviously i support chef united so it was always a thing i wanted to do so i was just looking at that thinking well you know i want to sign for chef united then all my mates and all I was getting oh come on you know buzzing about me signing but really for every party it was just a waste of fucking time but again that's where the decision making the gambling the depression stuff like that were just out of control then so you can you can imagine my decision making were just horrendous yeah so you took a wage cut to fight for Sheffield United basically yeah so what happens then when you get caught how long did it take erm seven months I think I was there seven, eight months at Sheffield United when I got sacked Were you fighting every week?

1:02:19Yeah Yeah I'm surprised you lasted that long Yeah Without someone not sticking you in No The thing is the people at the club knew what were going off Some people knew what my background were and who I knew wearing the Bartwig and things like that but they were more like an hooligan element at Sheffield United back then There's nothing about what exists there it's just completely gone how many's in the firm because every time I speak to hooligans they always mention like the North East they always mention like your Sunderland Shreffield United Newcastle has been tough bastards yeah I'd say back in day on a good day 300 3.5 I mean when I first started going hard they were minimum 150 every Saturday that was just the norm again just like going from pub to pub they would just be like 30 or 40 lads all different from different areas in sheffield and stuff like that but again on a saturday night we'd all come together because sheffield back then we're a battleground every every saturday night whether sheffield wednesday played at home or united played at home or things like that because they used to just meet off at train station so if wednesday played away we used to go to um an hotel in sheffield which used to look straight down to the train station so we used to stay in that bar and could see from the train station so when we know when when they were dual back and what train they were on and then they'd come up the road because there's a couple of pubs and it'd just be a battleground every Saturday What was your biggest buzz?

1:03:51Gambling signing a professional football contract or a football hooligan? Gambling Playing for Shea Fooja United with a bet on and then going for a strad It's mad because I can say all three but if I'm honest that's what stems from it the reason why I fucking went to that football fighting were because of the shit I were having myself I mean everyone talks about it and a lot of football lads they've always fighting some demons or they want to get some shit out and that's what it used to be about I mean a lot of players sorry a lot of lads who I know they're like fucking estate agents barristers doctors in armed forces stuff like that but they've just they're human they just want to get rid of some shit they just like to be part of a crowd and a camaraderie lads and stuff like that just let it all out who's the best firm you come up against?

1:04:44one of the best firms I've seen is Middlesbrough because they're all fucking massive they're all big bastards like myself they're all big lads I've never seen a small Middlesbrough supporter again going back on what Danny said with Grimsby we've had some fucking good deals with Grimsby I mean I got I got dragged in for Grimsby we played Grimsby pre-season and it was just chaos all day in cleathoats on beach on seafront every they were just mental but i've got the better dossier about me to the police what they uh they actually banned me for gave me another ban because i've been a band uh been banned 11 years i've had a six and a five i've had three prison sentences over it um so again yeah i've done me i've hurt my stripes with it but again you look back and you just think fucking hell could all this being stopped at whatever point in regards of like being at Newcastle being at Sheffield Wednesday stuff like that it didn't have to get to where I've been and what I've done in life when everything were just brilliant at one bit you know the future were bright and the road and paths I've took is like to fucking hell and back really yeah your decision making is honking bro it's shocking it's shocking mate it is again that's where the depths of gambling take you that's where addictions take you where you can't think constructive, you can't think positively, you just want to be in mayhem, in chaos, because you fighting is just your release, like you say, you're just angry at yourself, so you take it out on other people.

1:06:17Yeah. And you tend to see, when we have addictions, no matter what it is, you destroy not just yourself, but everyone else around you. Yeah, yeah. And that's what I'm saying, he went on to other stuff, he went on to obviously then like, working for people in the city, collecting, stuff like that, because then you're getting a reputation now, you're getting a reputation to be in a football hole again. Because like I said, a football reputation started just going the other side, started going like that. So I've, I've, I've substituted one for the other. I always needed some kind of recognition, whether it were being a football, or whether it were being a thug, or a football lad, or whatever.

1:06:51I always needed that recognition. And like a couple of people I know, they've like seen me on midweek, and you know, away from the football, and then they've seen me at football matches, and they're like, you're a fucking completely different person. It's like you've got to live up to a character and a reputation. So by seeing it weird, you fucking sound, you wouldn't, you know, and then you're just a totally different person on the side there, which I get, I completely get. And that's where I found myself, where a lot of people I spoke to, I said, you won't see me fucking crying in midweek or fucking, you know, depressed to fuck, not knowing what I'm going to do, whether I'd, you know, I've tried committing suicide as well, um a few years before that and it's like you don't see that side but you do see the inside me you know getting stood there nice fucking coat on whatever getting it all big and and whatever um and they don't understand that because that's all they do they see all these people these characters and they just think oh he's fucking brilliant him but it's not all about that what was the when were you trying to take your own life um i i tried to take me i'll tell you when i tried to send me on live last is well after the ghoul incident um because i were gambling really bad i'd split up with my sis uh when i'd got a two-year-old with her um a lot of attention from the media and stuff like that in regards of what happened to goal um i just had enough i just had enough but that's the first time and only proper time i've the switch has gone in my head but i'm like i'm fucking doing this i'm not you know and i scared myself to be honest with because i don't i'd thought about stuff when you know you gamble you get depressed and stuff like that with it and you have that thought in your head but this this thought was now i'm doing it um and i went and what it where i was stopping at a maze because like i said i just put up one of my sis this shit about happening with ghoul and i was staying with a mate and the mate's flat and I went and go in the shower I put the shower on and I just fucking broke down in the shower and I thought nah this is it but I pre-planned it because I was collecting I'd got tablets for my knee because I got bad knee injury so I was painkillers, paracetamols anything I could get my hold of I was collecting loads I got a big bag full and they were like a bottle of vodka in his fridge so I broke down in the shower got out walked into the kitchen took all these pills drunk half a bottle of vodka and just laid down on his sofa.

1:09:22And what it weird is, he was laying in bed at the time and he realised something was up because I shut the kitchen door. And the kitchen door we never used to shut because it was wedged open. But I shut the kitchen door to do what we're doing. And that alerted him. He thought, that's not right. Because the kitchen door's shut. So he got up and then found me. And then obviously he rang ambulance and everything like that and obviously got took into hospital. but yeah that were a that were a time where the switch had gone in my head to actually do it that's scary that when you lose complete control where you think right enough's enough and you want to switch your lights off because there's no coming back from that no and not only that I've just recently lost a friend back in May the night before the playoff final against Sunderland got down to Wembley supposed to be meeting him see somebody on the tube and just said oh look have you had a bar I'll say his name Dalton who were one of the guys who I've known since he was 15 years old he was the youngest bandooligan in country at Sheff United and he was a great lad and he took his own life the night before due to stuff with his ex and seeing, getting access to his kid and stuff like that.

1:10:43He spent a lot of money on it. But he was so positive. He was like, always running, always putting things on Instagram, running out into wads with his dog and everything, you know, he never thought that. But again, telltale signs is that when everything looks so good, it usually isn't. So yeah, he took his life the night before, which again, triggered me back to what, you know what went off with me and again i think for that few week i struggled really bad with my depression because it took me back to square one really especially losing somebody close like that yeah sorry to hear that but women family courts it takes men to dark places i went through it myself there for two years and yeah and i'm a fucking strong guy like i've come over so much and i think yeah nothing will faze me that faze me that rocked me i thankfully never went back to booze a gear but i ate a lot so if you can see my videos from probably 23 year 2023 to kind of now you'll see the kind i changed 2022 i was flying yeah kind of lost myself and you could become complacent not respecting the interviews not respecting my craft but i'm getting back now i'm finding you back but that's not a nice place to be family courts because it it drains you not just mentally but financially and they're not against they're not in favor for men i don't give fuck what women say and listen there's a lot of great mums out there i'm not targeting them all but what they have to go through and the hurdles and the obstacles that men have to go through and the money that they need to pay out for a corrupt system that's not there to get you over the line to see your kid and it's definitely not in favor for men so i can understand why he actually took his own life because it's so much too i think he spent a lot of money on it i think he's got yourself into debt with it um and i mean i heard stories that he actually went to the hospital the day before to the crisis team and actually went in and said look i need some help um i think something to do with his ex or i actually worked at the hospital somewhere like a conflict of interest from that but they wouldn't see him they sent him away because because of some of the daft as that and day after he's he's done what he's done so again yeah it's just again it's fucking mad mate but it needs to be more about it like but i speak about it all the time because obviously through my experience but blokes aren't made to talk it's not in the fiber to talk and not only that is what i've learned is not a lot of blokes want to talk because you don't want to tell other people the shit we don't want to burden people because we know everybody's struggling and sometimes I'm the kind of guy who doesn't really talk I listen to everybody else's problems give them advice but I just think everybody else is struggling why do they need to hear my shit you know so you try and deal with it and it might not hit the surface for a year 10 years 15 years 20 years but it fucking does eventually hit and it's good I don't believe in talking about it all the time because I think it just reinforces that you're not well I think it's good just to listen mate I need to fucking a little walk for 10 minutes or house things I'm really struggling now just that little 10 minutes to go listen everything's going to be sweet blah blah blah it can make your day better yeah and it can be that like exercise is so important as well to balance the demons because it's an inner battle and exercise kind of wins those battles I believe no matter if it's just walking no matter if it's just going to the park with the dog just my dogs are a big saviour in my life like I fucking love them more than anyone you know and and I kick on for them yeah I was never suicidal though but i used to think about it when i was on the session i thought would anybody miss me i think but then what would i do if i took one life you know they care yeah and i've had the balls to do it i was too selfish well i'd take me i'd take my hat off to anybody who has done it and gone through it because it's some ballics i know people say it's selfish and i can't believe they've done it and all that but look what they've left behind but for somebody to actually do that you've got to be in a fucking yes really really bad place to do it i mean i when i did it i were i've never thought about it doing it to that extent again because i scared myself for it um but for my mate to do what he did uh and he's he was a strong person he was always encouraging everybody to fucking you know follow the dreams and fucking get out doing something talking or whatever and then he does what he did.

1:15:18It's sad when it goes that way. When was the first time you got to jail for all Matt Wenders? First time you got to now? So first time I went to jail was when I was 26, back in 2009. That were for a free in Sheffield City Centre on a Saturday night. What did you get? Oh, so you weren't fighting hooligans you were fighting? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Sheffield Wednesday. Yeah, yeah. Most fights in Sheffield Town Centre was between United and Wednesday. and that were that were one of them and that that wasn't organised it never organised but you know if you went in certain places and certain pubs and bars and stuff there might be some in but I was literally just waiting outside for a taxi and some one of United lads has come bouncing out saying fucking Wednesday's in here their fucking top boys are in here and all this so funny enough we'd been on a stag doing Doncaster not a very nice fucking thingy place but we're ending there we've been fighting with some gypos so we've already been fucking yeah no we've already been fucking fighting that night and it got a bit later on so we'd left Doncaster got out of where come back to Sheffield and I fucking had enough and I was like I'm going home yeah taxa so I was just stood waiting for a taxa then he's come bouncing out doing that they're fucking here so then um me and my mate were just stood there the next minute they come fucking out front bottles chairs everything so then he just fucking went and the funny enough the video lasts eight and a half minutes because it's all on um ccv yeah and it's fucking mad mate um but there were only three of us what got nicked so me and my mate got nicked and the guy who come out the the pub and said look they're here he got nicked we all got fucking 12-1 for it but nobody on the other side got nicked and i can't remember getting interviewed saying have you nicked anybody from other side of sheffield or what and they were like oh it's ongoing investigation i'm like well i know you know that they you know who they are so why aren't they anyway right to court just us three got 12 months for a free why just sheffield gianted no idea same as out in it if anybody's if anybody can get away i mean i've never got away with all i mean i've got away with stuff where i was in like being found not guilty and stuff but majority of time you fucking are guilty but you know how it works but it's like anyway when I've walked in court or walked into a police station I've either gone away or got done for it do you know what I mean I've never liked being able to say well I'll tell you what I can give you a piece of information or we'll do a deal and stuff like that and anybody who anybody who's got who's blatantly guilty of stuff and then never gets time or never just walks there's always yeah that's what I'm saying so again I knew they were well known to police and they knew they were but for some reason they never got dragged in it was just us like we caused it but again on camera you just see me stood waiting for a taxi it weren't until my mate got a Aubrey a chair that I've then gone waiting in but then it's just it's just corny I mean I go in one door go missing come out dragging a couple with me you know one fucking kid hits me it's brilliant it's up there but again it didn't look good in court no self defence I've tried that before with self-defense shit and i don't think i'm guilty if you're standing at the taxi rank and then actually walk in a door yeah i think it's a different ball game yeah it's i've tried that we've tried all sorts but again outcome where i got found a found guilty with a jury and that were kind of self-defense because the kid was running at me and i just took my hands out of my pockets give him one he went down and then i walked away that way me involving were literally a couple of seconds um and my barrister then said look go down to self-defense he's running at you they fucking found me guilty so I got I got some more time for that but I was against Sheffield Wednesday and all What was the media like Newcastle player to prison?

1:19:15Erm Under radar Under radar to be honest only things what come out in regards to like playing for Newcastle and stuff like that is obviously the goal incidents the stuff what actually got into the papers erm and local papers if I played for local like erm non-league teams and stuff I might have had incidents in training where I've been psyched for digging somebody in training or whatever kind of stuff. But again, all these stories and headlines or whatever, it's all where I were in life. And like I said, decision making and how chaotic it was. I mean, I was never brought up to be a bad lad. I was never a little twat or outlier.

1:19:56I got brought up brilliantly, to be honest. but it was just again them decision making the the frame of mind I would end the decision making was just horrendous so again I'd take all the the the flack and everything for what I've done but again it's just like opening the story up to people and saying well hold on a minute I'm talking about the depression the gambling these are reasons why all this shit went down like this you know what I mean what was prison like for you? eh scary as shit first time

1:20:33you have to find that balance between being you know not too much for people but not a soft shit so that's where you kind of guess where you need to be and where to gauge you know I'm alright with people but then I'm not a fucking idiot and don't take piss so probably did alright with prison first time because I knew a couple of schools in there so they made my life a bit easier got a few perks and stuff like that um but again football lads in in prison they fucking hate it everybody in there fucking hates it because they just see like they don't understand being a football hooligan they just see it's like fucking mindless violence now they might be in for fucking chopping somebody up or whatever that's mindless violence or whatever but they're like fucking football lads you're fucking wankers and that's the kind of reaction you got when you're like rocked up in jail what you in for no fucking football violence I'm afraid you fucking wankers fucking idiots you're like do you know what I mean that's how everybody nails a fucking idiot yeah that's what I mean but they fucking turn their nose up here they're like you're fucking scum and I'm like mate what are you in for oh I'm fucking in for fucking domestic abuse it's like yeah you're fucking scum pal do you know what I mean but it's mental but after that I mean I've done four stints I think and I don't know come out in 2024 my last stint so i got um two year for just a um an altercation with somebody where i've ended up getting him a few and but again back in 2023 i would i'd gone back to me worse a bit with gambling and and stuff like that in regards to depression because i actually had a stint in um working in mental health because it was something i wanted to get into and obviously give some uh stuff back to mental health and i ended up being a support worker and i would do him brilliantly for a couple of year but you know dealing with everybody else's problems and dealing with everybody else's shit and guiding them and doing seeing result fantastic results for other people is i was neglecting myself so my shit were always put to that bike but then that resurfaced after a bit and that's where i kind of blew up so I like ballooned up a bit I was like fucking heaviest I'd ever been because again like you can relate to I used to eat on emotions all the time it was kind of more like a self-harm never we weren't fucking hungry I didn't want to fucking eat but I just eat shit just for like self-harm and you knew you were going to balloon up then you were going to think oh I look like shit so I'll get more depressed so it's just a vicious circle with it and it was same as like with gambling I'd always leave myself enough money to buy a pizza or whatever if i were like living on my own i never did i never did that like last 10 quid and i'd always like but that again with the uh the self-destruction and stuff like that so i've been there myself like and i wanted to give something bike so i did it but then i just i had to come out of that work because i just i couldn't cope with it because i was doing really well but money was shit weren't really much appreciated for what i did and how well i did with but again you lose yourself because you're dealing with everybody else's shit so i i blew up so i went on a night out and an altercation with somebody and again not been in any trouble for a few years because it's been 14 years since i was last in prison since 2009 so it was you know some time ago and then bang get sent i just had a new baby so that was he was two weeks old and then um the kid gasped me up i didn't get nicked on the night it was a week later they come to my house and they fucking nick me for it and then they're on remand for four months and then um i got sentenced to two year so yeah it was just fucking it's mad but this time around is jails are completely different players to what it were 14 years ago the caliber of people in there are different um everybody's own space though drugs then fucking hell it's so bad it's so bad I mean, they're in Rambe.

1:24:37Where's that? It's near Nottinghamshire, near Workshop. But it's doing an ambulance five times a day coming into that prison to get people out on spies because they were fucking ODing on it and going fucking nuts. It was horrendous. What's the worst thing you've seen in prison?

1:24:59Someone slit in their throat. someone's slit in their own throat fucking blood seeping out at the bottom of the door landed it's yeah when did the penny ever drop or did it ever drop that the career that you could have had to then the life that you chose did you ever ever sit in a prison cell thinking fuck me what have I done yeah I have yeah yeah mostly you do when you're in a prison cell not just on your football career but everything you've done whether it were that night or that incident or whatever. Everybody can say, especially, I'll say the first time you do realise that is in fucking meat wagon away from court to prison, you know, getting booked in.

1:25:42That's the realisation because I can remember like the bus used to go on Sheffield Parkway and I'm thinking, I live there, I can see my house from there. I'm on Sheffield Parkway to Doncaster Prison. I'm thinking, just turn, turn. You know, you're looking through a window. That's the realisation. But then you have to go into that survival mode when you get in prison because like i say you have to you can't go in there being fucking weak as person oh i shouldn't be here and you know feel sorry for me you've got to go in there and fucking gauge it right don't be a dickhead but then don't be a pushover just be that find that middle ground where to be all right with people which i did quite well with because like i said i did i didn't take no shit but i wouldn't be a fucking dickhead you know i'd get on with everybody and you know see if somebody needed something i'd sort them out because that's So when I landed in prison, I knew a few people in there already.

1:26:31And that side of where I met you, you've got some fucking toothpaste, toothbrush, some noodles, whatever it is, shower gel. You know, end it there, you're in there doing time with people, just fucking get on with it. The end goal is to get out. So just fucking live your life. Did it make you angry thinking about your past when you're in prison because of what it could have been and it made you rebel even more? or had it just already gone had it already gone the thing is the last time I went in and I come out in 2024 and obviously done podcasts and stuff like that talking about it was the realisation that's when the pennies dropped the last prison sentence especially with a two week two week old baby and leaving him for like 12 months and stuff like that so that's the realisation and it was you know I think I were 23 stone when I landed in jail and i come out like 18 and i'm like can be training every day but it was that there was that training and that focus and that routine i'd never had since i was a footballer because of all the chaos of the fucking gambling and drinking and fighting and whatever i never had that routine for a long time and then when i found that routine again back in prison me had just completely switched to like you know you know come out be positive do stuff talk about it whatever um so that's where i'm at now what about when you were fighting with the fan what happened because it made world headlines yeah um again playing for goal in non-league um i used to get frustrated playing on league because where i'd been and what i'd done what i achieved when you're coming down the pyramid and you're playing for shittles and there's a couple hundred people there and you're not getting the proper football money anymore and you're just being a normal person and having to pay bills and doing whatever that's that's the frustrations and i and to be honest that day where you just get fucking shit loads of abuse off the corval supporters now which is fair enough but i'm not a fucking professional footballer anymore i'm playing non-league there's two or three hundred people here you can hear every fucking word they're saying you know and you just think fuck it anyway a bad day i got sent off um money had not been paid at goal a couple of weeks wages and i was owed and stuff like that so there were more to it than that um but it just blew up so then when i got to the uh the tunnel it was like an old school ground so the tunnel had like i got a cage around it and during the game they used to like open one so you could like walk past the tunnel well through the tunnel and then when the game was on they shut it so as i were going to the tunnel they'd come from the top corner of the stand down to the tunnel to give him more abuse so as i've got to the tunnel i've realized the gates open the latches off so i've burst through that and then fucking gone into the crowd and said well what you're fucking saying now basically but you don't get that he only starts filming it from when he does start filming it so you don't see the build up to that but obviously i got medar that i was fucking lunatic goal captain goes meant all this all over fucking social media and youtube and everything um so i had to come out and do some interviews to get my point across and tell them the full you know the full story because i was just getting medar and obviously i said the cantona thing was it were 19 years today that cantona did that at sellhurst park so you so it was anniversary of that so that's what made it the headlines and stuff but yeah it went off but again i'm used to fucking running terraces and that football lad come out in me do you know that being that's one of the football lads it was like yeah i'm playing football but now i've been sent off and fuck it you want to give me some you know if you'll give me some abuse in stand i'm i'm used to that i've been doing that for the last 20 years i'm fucking in um so yeah that took home me uh but again i got psyched david also if the manager psych me but just said look you know you're great kid i love you to pieces you're my club captain but i've got to let you go i can't so i just said listen i shook his hand i says no problem whatsoever i i get it um and then from the the so from the drive home from goal which is about 50 minutes back to sheffield my fucking phone were blowing up and i'm thinking you know how does everyone else know about this and there were people ringing up saying oh robbie savage on five lives calling your heart ringing what's gone off at fucking gold today because people have been ringing in or something i fucking turned my phone off i can't i can't handle this can't deal with it all so the next day i turned my phone on and again it just blew up they were like i think i were on twitter at the time and i think i'm about 3 000 people started following me just that night or whatever and it just i couldn't handle it but again the the abuse i was getting online were horrendous it was it was mental but i was i was biting i was biting to it which i've learned not to replying replying if you'd have come down to our ground would have done this if you look and i'm like mate i'll come down to your ground where are you where are you from all right sound i'll meet you what junction on n1 do you want to meet i was fucking biting like fuck mate and it was taking all my life for that couple of week after where i had to just come off i had to just fucking delete it all and come off and what happened with the football career did you get a ban i got same banners canton oh yeah so i got a year's year ban it's all right yeah not obviously as much money i bought canton i got fined um but yeah i just literally couldn't play for a year so when did you become a debt collector um after i'd been in prison you think you just sort of earned your stripes and become that character of that life yeah yeah still were you not boozing or taking gear um no not really we're just uh free enough sorry funny enough

1:32:30right sorry um funny enough i signed for him an only team and the chairman owned um a window company and there'd been loads of contracts had gone south and people holding money and stuff like that so he says listen i'll give some work in week i'll pay you on a saturday couple hundred quid to play but i'll give some work in week anyway we're dead collecting going around to see people getting money for these windows so i started getting some results and getting some money in so basically he just said like look um there's a couple of guys i know do you want to go and work for them so that's how he that's how it started but then obviously people in Sheffield but then um using my size using my reputation still fly out saying look he owes me a few quid and I just wanted to like carry on living the footballer's lifestyle on on that money but not actually playing football so it's yeah that's how I got into it and how bad was the gambling then has it always been sort of same all same more money are you every day yeah as soon as you get money yeah yeah it was the same but i would be happily sit in the house 24 7 if i had funds just watching fucking horse in philadelphia and water polo in brazil beach volleyball anything i could bet on never give a fuck about winning or losing i just needed that buzz i needed to feel that i was alive that was the only thing that made me alive now that I'm doing well in life I don't know if I appreciate it or I get any sort of buzz because of the buzzies I used to get if you're sniffing gear, gambling, partying the dopamine levels must be through the roof the brain must be thinking what the fuck is this so then you can love everything and start doing well you don't really get any sort of traction up the way with a good feeling so I don't know if I burnt the fucking receptors out with so much gambling because my biggest buzz was when it was a last minute go or it was a photo finish or it was something close because if I've got a bet on say I've got St Helens on minus 12 in the rugby league and they're winning with 40 I would take my money back so I could put another bet on I don't even feel good it's the close ones it's the losing it it's the losing it chasing peek round the door and cover the score and turn the volume down you're fucking going it's the losing it's the chasing where you get the buzz you won all the time it'd be boring when did you start really seeking out for help when did you has there anybody ever came across that you could give you advice that you could some help some help did start when I was early 20s so I went to Sporting Chance the Tony Adams Foundation for the gambling but my dad contacted the PFA which is one good thing my dad did when I was in my 20s trying to sort me out but I remember a guy called Peter Kay he's passed away now but um he worked for sporting chance yeah you might have seen him he worked in and out of court with joy he looked after joy borton oh yeah yeah joy spoke about him on the podcast yeah yeah yeah peter carey called him um saved his life yeah so he turned up at my mum and dad's house in sheffield one day because my dad had rung them and we sat on settee with me and you know and my dad's saying oh yeah he's struggling with his gambling and stuff like that and i can remember just sat there and i didn't know we were but i just remember saturday like thinking fuck me dad you like throwing me on that fucking bus here what about your gambling what about you do you know what i mean but it was like kind of that you know that denial kind of thing like oh yeah he's bad at that he's yeah he's he's getting worse he's getting worse i'm thinking fuck me man why don't you while he's here see if you can get some fucking help and all but he yeah but then yeah they took me away they took me nine of sporting chance for a month um but again it's a surreal world you live like a fucking top footballer down there it's you're at champneys so it's you know champneys alfrazor in lippock uh ampshire and it's fucking beautiful picturesque all that line there's this pad in the woods where you stay and you go to champneys every day and eat and use their facilities and get fucking spa treatments and whatever and then at night you jump in a car um get took to london and you're gonna have to have a swanky meal at a restaurant and you then go to a ga meeting or a ca meeting or whatever it might be depends on who's we're on at that time what the players or whatever um and that's what you did for a month but then soon as i jumped on train and went back to sheffield back to fucking normal life back to reality now so that well i don't want to gamble for a month i'm yeah i'm good i'm good back hanging around with lads and that back in sheffield or going out and I'm going to drink or whatever just back to square one so there's not much after yeah after care kind of thing how much do you think you've rattled on gambling uh millions I wouldn't say millions but I'd say it wouldn't be far off a mill because again what you win goes fucking straight back I've had some decent wins like but I've never there's not there's nothing to show for there's nothing to show for the football career the money I earned where again if somebody if there'd be more guidance from my parents again which goes down to they were shit with money when they had money at their young age there'd be more guidance and support in that and in some more financial guidance in like look you know you're on this butcher week you don't need that week why don't you start putting whatever into investment or to an house or whatever they were never that so I would just kind of misguided whatever there were no anybody saying look you need to do start doing this for the future it was just literally nah I'm do it lotting.

1:38:21Were you still gambling in prison? Yeah not so much not any other times but the last time I was in just pure boredom and it's not that it were controlled because my mate just said to me he's a gambler just to look ring me up every Saturday I'll put you a bet on he's just something to do at a weekend do you know what i mean um and then whatever i won he just gave me when i got out so it was just kind of a pot of money to help me out when i got out um but i had a couple of decent wins but just a look he goes i'll sit you a 10 a football bet on and then i'll put you a lucky 15 on horses so it worked it worked kind of controlled but then one guy's in there says look i'm gonna start running the buckies in here so it was just like um i don't smoke or vape or anything but everything's vapes in there so they were like capsules so he run a bookies but that's what that was currency basically a pack of these were with a fiver so it was like i'm gonna buy so i was just buying on canteen but they were like me betting tokens with this guy and then obviously the more i won with these vapes i just then sell them to them did vape or smoke or whatever we were gambling in chocolate when i was in the jail we used to get a meetings say in pay dock or whatever yeah and obviously say there's five or six meetings yeah you obviously pick a horse each meeting whoever wins gets three points second to yeah last first third you get one point and whoever got the most points when all the bars are chocolate yeah yeah there used to be shower gels as well yeah in fact last time i went yeah yeah because they were a pound shower gels were pounds so that was equivalent a pound there you go i'll have four shower gels on that we played cards a few times just to pass the time of day on scrabble it's what it is in you've got to get fucking yeah well yeah find our way as well yeah so you've done four sentences debt collector football mental health fucking done everything so you just got out of jail last year January 24 yeah yeah so is everything still recent yeah yeah are you out on license or anything license finished January this year erm so yeah do you know what mate the penny dropped last time I ran because I can remember but over the years I've written a book and there were talks about a film and stuff like that.

1:40:36And don't get me wrong, when there's interest like that, I'm like, oh yeah, I can fucking sell this and all that. But then as soon as you don't hear old for a week or two a week, then you go, oh, fuck it off. Why is anybody interested in this? No, fuck it off, just fuck it off. And that's what it's been like over the years. But since I've come out, and obviously people are interested in the story and stuff like that, it's kind of just took off. So the more feedback I get is the more drive i have to start doing more um so in at minute like i was speaking to danny obviously with his book and stuff like that so i think we might get something together with that and might get mine published and get it out there but in regards to like films and stuff um these talk are a short film being made uh and that is literally going to be the the um the story of the story like the beginning of the story to the full shebang of my life and all what we talked about today but it will be that period from like 13 to 16 or 13 to 17 when i signed professional so it's looking at the more relationship with my dad the alert behavior off my dad the gambling the the fights at home with my mum and not paying bills and you know just living with a compulsive gambler so obviously there's a lot of stuff people can take from it relate to it regards a mental health um gambling addiction stuff like that so we are looking to get that sorted early next year um and then get that entered into like film festivals and stuff hopefully and then somebody will take it on to be a feature film i do see a movie there yeah the footballer becoming a football hula the gun debt collector prison four times it's just finding that ending it's just finding that you know what i'm good now yeah yeah you know what i'm saying you don't want to be in prison fucking this year next year no no no i've got a part two in the movie yeah but you've definitely like i've interviewed enough people like it is such a fascinating story and i might not feel that because you've sometimes when you live it doesn't feel that good but no for the footballer to be a hooligan it's fucking nuts yeah i mean like i said the the thing is with a short film is i want to get the more aspects of the the background to to the to all the fucking mayhem basically and where it starts and a lot of people relate to stuff is obviously the mental health the depression the gambling addiction I want them to see them first hand at that because I think that alone will be very powerful and strong for people to relate to but then obviously I'm not going to be able to then start putting all scenes in films of some stuff I've got involved in in regards to the football and stuff and the chaos of prisons and stuff like that what's been going on so that would be like a feature film but really mostly even if I just get a short film out about the about the proper stuff the hard stuff uh growing up never do boxing or anything i did box at uh 15 and 16 um but i think my dad turned me i mean i'm lying there you're a better football my dad that's what my dad wanted to know it was just football he once let me play rugby i got approached for playing rugby um but we're now football football football how hard is it when your family's seeing you going to prison and that especially with your dad taking you all around taking you all to football getting your contracts to then your son's in prison and I think sometimes that can be the hard thing when you've got potential when you've got opportunities and you fuck them all like some people kids from the streets they don't really have opportunities they don't have that of being a footballer or a snooker player that have the great talent everybody has a great talent they just don't tap into it because no one takes them to then figure out their talent but I think it's more I think it's more damaging to the brain when you actually have a gift when you have been put on this planet to showcase your talent to then fucking it all because it's the old guy in the pub saying listen I could have been a contender I could have been a footballer but do you think it's harder for your parents because you did have such a talent at such a young age my mum not so much because my mum never believed into football she never tapped into believing how we were a footballer she weren't interested in that life whatsoever she was more a realist my dad just lived in fucking cuckoo land with i just want to you know and that that's the that's the dynamics of my household whereas it was me and my dad on this journey and my mum and my brother younger brother were just in background so it was just about me and my dad and what me and my dad were going to achieve my dad left my mum after 25 year so when i was 25 and i got set down at 26 and my dad had left he'd gone off with another woman and whatever that that period of time from like 26 to 30 and then three prison sentences i did and stuff like that that's when it's just chaos that was most chaotic in my life um so my dad i put fucking money on my dad's head when he left because i found my mother my mother took an overdose tried to kill herself and i found my mother and my dad with a big blow my dad looked the ballucks the softest shit my mum was the hard one maybe i might get it from my mum i might look like my dad and i'm a dad's size but my mum with her mum with the hard one she would do one who disciplined and stuff like that she was a rock in the family and then when my brother me and my brother saw her crumble and tried to take her own life because of my dad i was fucking then the period of time i was fucking angry and i was putting money on my dad's head i was gonna go and fucking take him out um because i would yeah it were bad so then when i got sent down the first time year after he actually ripped me a letter while i was in prison just explaining himself a bit for whatever happened but still to this day my dad's never um don't look so you know how you've turned out and what's gone off him you know i have had things to do with you know i'll show you gambling you know you saw a lot as a kid he never takes any responsibility for fuck all because he's still in denial about it still to this day i mean he still has a bet but he doesn't do what he used to do but again we we we don't have a relationship that's the hardest thing we don't have a relationship and all i ever wanted him just to say is look we fucked up carl i fucked up as a dad sometimes you know i mean we all do you're human but he's just never had that realization just to fucking tell me and that's all i've ever wanted off him don't know what else just to fucking just to say yeah i hold my hands up sorry yeah that's it that's all i want from him and then we'd get on like a fucking house on fire probably go back to the old days but it's something i'm always wanting him to do but i don't think i'll ever see it but we speak about that speaking out because sometimes it's the most difficult thing is taking responsibility yeah we blame everybody else it's easier yeah because we're already a up we know where i fuck up we just don't want to tell people that we're a up even though they know we're a up you know and that's the hard thing especially when it comes to parents because all we want to do is feel loved yeah that's where the majority of our madness comes from abandonment not getting that arm around your shoulder proud of you fuck I was raised in Glasgow which was mayhem if anybody put an arm around you and says proud of you you just automatically think gay you know what I mean or nonsense don't show feelings you know what I mean but that's why the majority of people are fucked up like we're living in a time where that's all like men just nobody really ever knows what goes on in our mind and I've always been saying this recently like it's dangerous place to be especially in this day and age as well because there's no stability relationships aren't as strong as you used to be divorces through the roof anger, frustration, suicide, addiction we're becoming lost as a society in humans because we're all decent we are all decent you'll know a few mad bastards I know a few mad bastards but I know they're solid I know they're good underneath all the fakery and all the charade that they put on you know gambling for anybody who's like sort of watching and struggling I've went through myself with the gambling but how bad is gambling for people who don't know because a lot of girl friends and mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters and friends who just think why are you throwing away money yeah they don't understand the depths of where it takes you but for people who's watching like how bad bad is the struggle for gamblers it's massive and i think it's the worst one i think it's the worst one are the addictions because it's undetectable i could sit here today and say well yeah i'm sound and i might have lost 100 grand now if i turned up here today and said well i'm a drug addict you'd see the signs of me being a drug addict so you'd see me pissed or whatever you can see signs with other addictions you know physical signs with gambling you can't unless you see the bank account or you know whatever but gambling it's like literally you can fucking lose everything there's only so much drugs you can take before you kill yourself overdose same as we drink there's so much content before you fucking liver pack so then you die gambling is endless it's limitless basically so and then a lot of people then that's where they do have to take their life because it gets too much so it's not like the physical stuff is taking their life through addiction it's them taking their life for it because there's no other way and that's where i think it's bad but gambling it starts off a social thing but then when you're going into your own little world that's when it becomes a problem when you can't when you wake up in the morning thinking that the first thing i need to do is stick a bet on that's if you do get any sleep because you'll go into bed late at night say if you're trying to fucking gamble on you know south american league or whatever you're trying to do it's it's that where the first thing you need to do and then you know yourself whether you're stealing money borrowing money you know robbing peter to pay a poll kind of thing which we've all done um that's the worst thing for it and then obviously your relationships break down because you are lying it is deceitful again because you can hide it you can tell somebody one story and another if i turned up pissed and says now i instead of drink and slurred and whatever you'd know i'd have a drink do you know what i mean so again you can hide it you can mask gambling well so that's why i think it's the worst one but yeah i used to i had i remember having a bird and she was up to I think it was any of fellows on and I don't know how I'd have ever got the money but I've fucking used her car to put on a bet yeah and she's obviously got like the bank statement through like a couple of weeks later saying how is this bet obviously she knew I was a gambler and I used to just deny all the knowledge yeah like pawning the kids iPads and I used to know them in the pawn shop yeah I had like my chain a ring a watch and I used to go down get a certain amount of money I'd probably buy it get it back out in a few days it could be straight back down that day yeah like I knew all their first names and you know you're a failure you know you're a fucking bum because as a father you should be doing everything to do better for your kids give them the opportunities that you don't but you just sacrifice everyone around you just to get that fix and where it takes you is like I say pausing the kids iPads and I used to come home from school looking for an iPad and I would pretend to look under the bed and that knowing I've just fucking sold it to the pawn you know like sick mentality like it's it's madness but that goes for any addiction people who under eat over eat drug addiction pharmaceuticals whatever it is like addiction's addiction it's somebody who's just lost completely because there's no many gamblers I've came across that don't know they've got an addiction but they just never admit it I'm fine I'm fine I can do this I can do that but you see them constantly yeah I mean I've done second grand set on shooter because again you're hiding you're like i need to go for shit that's another one like bird all the way at time like fucking hell you're shit for england like why did you win a toilet oh i'm fucking struggling at minute with me but in it's just it's to fucking get away so you can like get in my own little zone and do what i'm doing on my phone and enjoy your bit yeah do you know what i mean there's no worse and i've seen it before like with relationships i've had where i'm sat there and i'm thinking fucking i'm just lost and i'm like you know she's like you're all right and i'm like yeah i'm all mate i'm fucking hell i'm i'm screaming inside so just lost a fucking few grand or whatever it's mental but funny enough i actually got i ended up getting engaged because we're fucking gambling and it's funny because i moved in with a bird and um we went to school together and we ended up getting together and we had like a joint account well it wasn't an account it were an account i just put my money in there from football what got paid into it and one friday she was work an hour off so i thought fuck it so i had to walk into town and i ended up drawing a grand art and winning took bucci's and when i'd done it i thought oh fuck but then once i'm in my gambling element i was just and ended up winning three grand and i thought how the fuck am i going to get this money back into the bank without her knowing like just put her grand back she's going to see it on statement like a thousand dollar thousand in so a few weeks before she would walk past goldsmiths the jewelers and she always said oh there's a ring i don't want that ring so i thought hey well hold on i'll put a thousand pound right but what i'm gonna do is i'm gonna fucking buy her that ring so it just like masks that i've ever took a granddad so she says she does question her i'll just say oh yeah but towards ring do you know what i mean so i end up buying this ring so i got home and i thought hey put money by and i gave it a ring and i just said oh yeah I've got you a present oh well fucking hell next minute mother's up but when's party when we having a do I'm like what do you mean she's like well give you propose don't you I says nah I fucking am I said no now then you organize a do so next minute I've just fell into like an engagement next minute I've had this fucking do so we sent her back fucking do you know what I mean I end up getting geared to this lass but it was just again daft shit because I'm having to cover your ass I'm having to cover my ass but first thing I thought is fucking hell am I gonna get his money back right that ring there and it's fucking funny how you come up with these ideas and stuff like that you're a genius yeah because the amount of lies and how you can and you think of stuff yeah instantly when you're put under pressure shit just comes out your mouth yeah my mum always knew though because it was this it was the frustration yeah I used to get like not angry but it was like a agitated yeah you're gambling again and that would make me worse no I'm not no you fucking you always see this and she was always right she always fucking knew because it's in your room hiding and the laptop's plugged in and you get into the toilets your volume's turned down you're sneaking in and out you just know the telltale signs but for me it is the hidden addiction so for anybody watching or listening there is plenty help out there a lot of people struggle to go to meetings which is understandable but you can just go and listen because when you find out you're not alone find out that you are there's plenty of other scumbags out there they were all kind of on the same boat the beautiful thing is we can make changes to have better relationships because when I stopped I became a better dad instantly I wasn't lying as much you still tell little telltales but you became more reliable and that was a good feeling because I hated bumping people I hated not paying money and there's still little debts I owe from like 20 years ago and it's still in my mind that I've not cleared off like a wee hundred quid tier 250 here to people because you don't want to do it but that addiction just takes you to a whole different dimension.

1:56:03It takes you to places that you never thought you would go and I think that's where, well I can only speak for myself, my drink and drugs came because I knew I was a failure. I knew I was losing everything. I just didn't know how to quit. But for anybody, look out in videos or go to YouTube or people who gambled and make the better choices because it does change your life instantly. There's people who listen, go to meetings for 25 years and relapse. yeah it happens you know you don't know what's around the corner but for a bit of life it's just eliminating the things that are holding you back you know and people have got so much more to give and when they're really struggling and losing their businesses losing their house not seeing their kids their marriage has failed all because they're standing in a bookies betting on horses like it is a sad existence it is yeah but i used to go to the bookies 9 a.m 10 a.m till 10 o 'clock at night and even when it closed i thought what did i do i felt lost i was sitting in there i fucking learning Chinese with some of the guys that were in there just betting cash from the cash and carries and that they're all fucking smoking and I just didn't that was a part of my escape sitting in there wasting weeks my dad was dying with leukemia people were going out for meals like the last fucking supper I'm smoking joints betting on the cricket you know what I'm saying I'm missing my father's last you only get a few weeks to live but I was just hiding in the house gambling smoking joints your morals go out of the window yeah there's no morals to it i mean i've always said if if i'm in my element in bookies and somebody a close friend or my mother or anybody were getting big up outside or something in an emergency outside i'd be like i'm just watching this right after this race just let me watch this race do you know what i mean that's how bad it is what's your biggest regret

1:57:51I'd say, it's easy to sell on my football career, but I think, I think my kids, my kids is one of my biggest regrets. I mean, I've got five kids. Many women? Four. I'm three and three. I will, that's what I mean, but I've just added a few more.

1:58:11I'm laughing, mate, because it is a hard thing, because the broken home, it's not the way I wanted that. No. It's just, I didn't care. there was a stage before I turned 30 I didn't make think I would make it past 30 so I wouldn't care if I had five or ten kids with ten different women yeah that's the stage I was at I was just more selfish of I wasn't caring again that was another fix yeah you know um I think it's just I got brought up with a good dad my dad was fantastic my dad was unbelievable to a certain point and I'm that I'm that kind of dad but the troubles I was having when I had these kids I had these kids in my worst times so I couldn't be like a good dad not loving dad or anything like that just my absence because prison, fucking on one gambling, that's more important so looking back on it now, getting older is to think well could I have done more could I have been there more for them and be a better role model but again now my aim in life is to explain the story and the situations I've been in and the bad mistakes I've made so they do learn something and they can like turn around when they're old and just say look i respect it i respect you not the way i'm looking for an explanation off my dad and some acknowledgement because i i do acknowledge what i've done and that's why i can openly talk about it and all the shit i've done um because there's realization and that's the the thing with addiction is the realization when you're ready to talk about it and be open about it is when you're going to be on the the path to recovery yeah yeah yeah it was important how are you feeling today brother feel good mate glad to have come big bummed up like we're cold because kids have fixed it on from school and that but um now i've watched your stuff for years mate and uh it's one thing i wanted to do is get on here yeah we know yeah i appreciate it it's a great story yeah i can see big things coming from it and i'm not just saying that about you it's just a great story it's a fascinating story and a good thing is you own your problems you own your misery you're not shying a way because it's mad when you have got a bit of pain from the past and people use it against you yeah yeah but so when you own it you don't give a fuck the weight of the world that comes off your shoulders because you're thinking what are you going to do yeah this is who i am this is what i've done and fucking what yeah you know it's a big thing and it's an important thing how can people get in contact with you which are social media if anybody wants instagram facebook um stuff like that like i said there will be some projects coming out early next year um like i said gain a book and stuff but these other um projects i'd like to in regards to gambling where we can get something set up in regards to some gamble support work and things like that because it is it is close to me and i think if we can keep people occupied because like i said once you go into that world of gambling we can openly talk about it and get a community going with gambling i mean not um gamblers anonymous is for everybody or 12 sets recovery is for everybody um and people are at different stages so i just think if there's more options for people to whether it's a podcast or whether it's just something to listen to or acknowledge and relate to then we're looking to get something else i'll like that yeah a podcast is a good show and if you need any help with that let me know because there's plenty of gamblers out there all walks of life male and female yeah so i can help with that if you're a man so good just before we finish up for anybody that's maybe in that life will struggle for anybody that's battling that addiction what advice would you have for them i see you avatar fire and ash is now streaming on Disney+.

2:01:36It's the film critics are calling the best Avatar yet. A true epic and completely jaw-dropping. This is the only purest thing in this world. Return to Pandora on Disney+. It will be an adventure for the whole family. And watch the Oscar-winning phenomenon at home. This is sick! Avatar Fire and Ash. Now streaming on Disney+. Rated PG-13. This episode is brought to you by chat GPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons podcast. Have you guys heard about chat GPT work? It's the new way to use chat GPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give chat GPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports.

2:02:24Get started at chat GPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. At ZocDoc, we know you care about your health. You wouldn't do that early morning cardio if you didn't. So the fact that your annual physical is overdue just shows how hard it can be to get seen by a doctor. Sorry, that doctor's not in network. Press one for more options. You've reached us outside normal business hours. The next availability is in three months. But ZocDoc makes finding the right doctor easy. Download the app and search by specialty, insurance, and availability. read real patient reviews then book instantly zoc doc ready to be seen um just you've just got to get out and talk about it speak to somebody about it don't isolate yourself gambling is a very isolating addiction you know you take drugs and you drink you can do that socializing i mean socializing is good with gambling but again it's when you take yourself away you know on your own and do that gambling that's when it starts getting a bit complicated and a bit dark so for me is occupy yourself if you're struggling with gambling in regards to you're thinking of gambling every minute or every day just try and break it up with little things like say exercise or some mediating I don't know just something you've got to break that habit you've got to break the chain definitely big man I wish you nothing based on the future keep up the good work I look forward to seeing what you do Cheers, mate.

2:03:51Thank you.