I Killed Over 20 People - Confessions of a Mafia Hitman Larry Mazza

30:15Well, early on, they didn't know. They, even when the supply company closed, I didn't tell them it closed. I was making money. And I remember him saying it, like, you know, even in my book, the kid had money. He was, never asked us for anything. He had a nice car. He, you know, never seen him come home, like, drunk or on drugs. I had no reason to worry about anything. And he didn't because I had my own apartment in our house. And like he did say, I came home. I paid my bills. I actually kicked in. I gave him a little rent money. He didn't want it. But I said, no, I have to get a place somewhere.

30:54I don't mind. You know, I was showing him I was becoming a man, you know? So, but you become a deceitful and a liar. You have to. You have to because now as time goes on and I'm dropping him off to kill somebody. And I come home and maybe they see I'm a little, you know, I'm not, listen, I just got an upset. So I don't feel good. You know, I'm not going to tell them I just dropped Greg off to kill a guy and drove him away afterwards, you know. So they, excuse me, they don't know really the depth, how deep I had gotten until fast forward later on when we went through the war and the FBI pinched us all, then it comes out in open court, and they're sitting there.

31:40And I'm called the deadliest member of the Scarpa crew. He's part of multiple murders. You know, I'm saying, oh, my God, my poor parents. You know, it's tough. It's tough. And by then, I was married to my first wife. I had a son. So, you know, that's when you really, your eyes get really open up. So when you're doing the bookie thing, you're making a bit of money. when did you start getting violent well people don't pay okay so i mentioned earlier i would try very hard to be reasonable to work with them but now as i was i was getting deeper in my commitments to greg were more i had to pay him more money too so when they didn't pay it hurt me so i would have to bring them to see him so the first couple of times gregory and his guys would bring him in the back and go to work on.

32:33Now I started feeling responsible. I'm having these guys beat up my people, you know, and I, and I actually felt inferior. I said, I don't, you know, so down the road, if they didn't pay me and my guys would crack them around, uh, to set an example. and the worst violence the the murders you don't get thrust into one star wars the mandalorian and grogu is now streaming on disney plus what are you waiting for hop on the must see galactic adventure comes home on disney plus this is the way our only chance is to work together I like this kid. Always wear your seatbelt. Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu.

33:26Now streaming on Disney+. Read PG-13. And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Let's jar something loose. Ay, yes! I like that. The certified fresh series returns. Your boss. You always like this? Sores is just an act. Oh no, this is mad. Oysters, everybody! There's a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to laugh. Untested. Baby steps. They bring you in. Like I said, one of the first things I did was drive him somewhere.

34:14The next day I found out that Bucky, who's the guy's name, who was in our crew, got killed. And it was in that bar that I dropped him off at. I don't say anything. You can't say anything. That's a test. It's a test. Am I going to go in and dig, Brad, what happened here? Did you do that? You know, I can't do that. I got to just keep my mouth shut. He asked me to give a guy a flat tire once. The next day in the newspaper, man killed fixing flat. And the newspapers are right on the bar in our social club. So the men are reading it. They're laughing. I go by, see the newspaper out, and I say, I gave that guy the flat.

34:53I know the cards, the frigging silver caddy or white caddy, whatever it was. You know, I gave him a flat. But in the back of my head, I'm saying, well, I didn't kill him. I just gave him a flat. But I'm part of that conspiracy. That's what I said, yeah. Yeah, I'm part of it. So this goes on little by little. And I've said it several times. and it's an analogy partly, but it's true. We did dig graves. He asked me to get a shovel, just buy a shovel. I don't ask him, what's the shovel for, Greg? I'm in my head, I'm saying to myself, they're digging a hole. You know, somebody's going. Then the next time you're asked to dig the hole, and I dug one alongside Greg Jr.

35:31once. You know, a body's going in there. So little by little, then something may happen on a personal level. They don't ask you to kill your best friend. There's so many guys that are ready to kill. They don't need that. And why ask me to kill my, think about it. Why ask me to kill my best friend when I may go tell my best friend, get out of town? You know, that's what I would do if it was my best friend. And a lot of us would do that. So that's a myth. They always say, oh, you got to kill your best friend. Not that it never happens. Okay, down the road when you're deeper in and you're both big shots and you're both fighting over the same monies or whatever, that shit happens.

36:13It just happens. But getting back to my point of baby steps, something personal may happen. And in my case, something personal did happen. It was Greg's youngest daughter, little Linda. She was named after the mom. Nearly gets raped. a car service driver takes her to a park instead of to school. She was only about 14, 15. Yeah. So that afternoon, we went to the car service, had the guy who owned the car service give us the address of this driver. At first, he didn't want to give it. Greg leaned over, whispered something in his ear. He couldn't write the address fast enough. He probably told him, I'll kill you right here.

36:57And he's very convincing. Greg Scarp was convincing. He had a deep voice. He had a stone-hard look. Not bad-looking guy, but just a stone-hard look. There's some historic pictures of him in front of the club, and you just look at him. You see, his picture would be in the dictionary on the gangster, you know? So anyway, we go, and we, about four or five of us, me, Joey, Carmine, Sal, four of us, and Greg, give this guy a beating that I think the message came back that we'll tell you the bones that weren't broken. That's how many bones we broke. I mean, it's from his nose to his chin, to his ribs, to his knees.

37:44I mean, he was just, but you know what? It didn't bother me because this garbage, you know, if she, the little girl didn't handle it right and she handled it real good. she convinced him that let's not do it this way i'd rather you come and pick me up someday and go somewhere you know she turned it around and i found this out way later on that that's how she got out of that but so again at that point i didn't care so he knew that i would be okay with that i would want to do that for big linda too so he took me on that one and that was vicious but somewhere along the way and I remember telling him because he asked me afterwards he said I should have killed this guy now he's talking to me I want to kill this guy I can't let this guy live why did they let him live why did they let him live well at first I think and I said this to him later I says don't you think it's better the beating we gave him as a message to others you know people are going to hear about that they're going to see this guy I mean, sometimes it's good to just leave a message, you know?

38:56If he had gone the distance, then yeah, I'd say, just kill him right now. What are we waiting for, you know? But being somewhat level-headed, this is a conversation I have with him. But I think he was getting pressure from Big Linda, too. She couldn't, she wanted him gone. I remember that. And she almost looked at us as weak for not doing it. and I think he felt that way now so we came up with a plan where we would call the car service it took him about two or three months to even get back in the car maybe more than that I forget at least a few months and we would call the car service and until he showed up as the driver we did it like six or seven times finally I said that's him and we had it I was at the door and when I saw it was him, I would nod and then Carmine would hit the lights and they would come out and get in the car and Gregory was actually the main shooter there.

40:00So now I'm on the scene of a hit. And again, it's not, I'm not losing sleep over this one. You know, everybody could look in the mirror themselves. If it was your wife, your daughter, your loved one, how wouldn't you want him most people would say i want him dead yeah most people would say very few people would say i'll let the cops handle it they're not because he's gonna get a year and a half in jail if that much if that exactly so you know there's a there's a place for street justice there there is i still believe that you know i'm not a cop call i'd rather handle it myself even to this day and let the chips fall i'm not gonna call cops it's not my style never was so anyway then the next one was greg jr i and maybe i may be out of order i it's been so long i'm 60 almost 63 this was in my 20s i mean you know uh and there were so many with this crew you know the grim reaper that it's just uh but one another early one was greg jr gets in a beef in his bar it's called on the rocks that was his nightclub and the local guy that he got in the beef with was a known tough guy.

41:17And they're walking out of his bar to have it out.

41:23And four or five guys come with Greg Jr. That's our style. You know, unfortunately, as tough as some of the guys, Gregory was tough, but he's not going to fight him one-on-one. Same with me. After the years, I was a martial artist. I could handle myself. Not the toughest guy in the world by no means, but I could handle myself. I never needed, you know, five guys to but in that life, they're not gonna let me raise my hands. I'm gonna have five guys beat... I pulled a guy over once to beat him up myself, and next thing I knew, three guys that know me, well, they were all guys, Fat Larry, Fat Danny, and another fat guy, Dean.

41:59They were driving by. Fat bastards. Well, that's their nickname. So they were driving by and saw this. I had to stop them. Oh, easy, easy. I gave them... Enough is enough. They were gonna beat them to death. but it was because I was Larry, Greg's nephew, and they were also up-and-coming guys. And today they moved up. They're in the life right now, so, you know, I hate to say that because some of them I like, and they're just on a collision course, like we all were in that life. There's not too many ways out. So anyway, this guy now, because he was outnumbered in the back of the bar, pulls out a gun.

42:35Gregory winds up getting shot in the behind, in the ass. and the next day he comes to the club and he's wearing short we're not allowed to wear shorts but he tells his father he got shot he's got a bullet in his ass he hits the he went nuts he says what the fuck happened so gregory's laughing about it he's making a joke because he don't want to kill the guy it was a fight it was any and i think he liked the guy he's a normal a fellow tough guy you know but a little probably crazy and no no no no you're a good fella he was a made guy at this point greg junior and he says you're a good fella and he hits the desk he says you can't get shot yes you know like it mattered where he got shot he's in the ass you can't get shot i want this guy done it's gonna get it's gonna happen so this is one where now i drove greg in a limo, him and Joe Brewster.

43:36And Greg was going to take him. I'm the shooter. He's meeting him. Joe Brewster and I. And I was going to be in another car to take them out of there afterwards, but I was a backup also. And then we had crash cars. But Greg shoots him, and I found out Joe Brewster shot two. He wasn't supposed to, but he wanted to do that for Greg. He loved Greg Jr. Anyway, so here I am getting closer now. Because, again, it's personal. It's like my brother. Gregory's a brother to me. They shot him. We can't let that go. Then you fall into this mentality that what you're doing is okay. Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu is now streaming on Disney+.

44:14What are you waiting for? Hop on. The must-see galactic adventure comes home on Disney+. This is the way. Our only chance is to work together. I like this, kid. Always wear your seatbelt. Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu now streaming on Disney Plus read PG-13 and we're back streaming on Peacock may I present to you the award winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller slap me let's jar something loose ay yes I like that the certified fresh series returns your boss you always like this or is this just an act oh no this is mad oysters everybody there's a certain satisfaction When you work with someone, maybe we could be a family.

45:02You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to live. You fell in love at First Crunch, and now the crispy chicken crunch wrap slider is back at Taco Bell. But with a twist, it's crispy all-white meat chicken nuggets inside a slider-sized crunch wrap. But now you can enjoy them with the kick of Hidden Valley Diablo Ranch. Or try the tortilla chip-coated nuggets on their own. They're waiting for you. The crispy chicken crunch wrap slider, a brand new classic, is back. Only at Taco Bell. Later on, when you know a guy's getting killed just because he broke a rule selling drugs, that's a little different.

45:43That's a little harder. We just got to whack a guy because he's, you know, it's or, you know, different reasons. Disrespect. Or he's not paying anymore. He stopped paying or afraid he's going to become a rat. He may become a rat. You just start whacking guys for like, just because you're ordered to, or, you know, we're going to do it. But one thing I'll say about Greg Sr. He never told me, Larry, go kill that guy. He told Larry, take a ride. He was always there. He was always there with Greg Jr. They weren't the type, and there's a lot of them out there. And I'll tell you some of them, you know, Some of the biggest names you know weren't big-time trigger men.

46:29I'm not going to mention names. It's unnecessary. But there's a lot of guys that elevated. Well, I'll say one, Vic Arena, which caused our whole family to fall apart. And we'll get to that. But Vic Arena was eventually our acting boss. He wasn't much of a shooter in his life. But when he became acting boss, because Junior Persico, our boss, thought he could control him from prison. He said, I'm not that much of a tough guy. He'll listen to what I tell him. Problem was, he listened to everybody. Okay? He wasn't his own man. He would listen to John Gotti. He would listen to this one. Listen to what people were telling him.

47:07And they had their own motives. So he caused an internal war for us, which we'll get to at some point. But they weren't trigger men. They were just ordering it. Now, Vic Arena was able to order, whack him, kill him, take him out, you know. And you don't realize it's a big deal to kill somebody. It's a big deal. You're taking a life. It shouldn't be that easy. And there was a time when it wasn't, when you had to go through channels. But the newer bosses, you know some of the names like Gas Pipe, you know, John Gotti. It became very easy. Just kill him. Take him out. He may be a rat. I dreamed about him being a rat.

47:47I had a dream that a guy was going to be a rat. He just dreamed it, and he killed him. Yeah, I mean, so that's when, you know, part of the reason. The leadership went downhill, the drugs usage, the lack of following the rules, the basic rules that we were supposed to follow, destroyed the life. But again, going back to where you were, it's baby steps, and you get acclimated, and you understand, and then you're in so deep. you can't say no it's a weakness you got to just keep your mouth shut you know it's just it's it's hard to explain it's hard to explain when you're there and you're in that deep there's nothing you can do when yeah when did you realize that you were slipping when did you realize that you were becoming lost when was that a realization early or was it not too late years but did you feel as if you were losing yourself?

48:43Well, I wouldn't put it that way. Because some people love that life. We're all about that life. You seem to be quite level-headed where you've seen things differently from that life. Yeah, no, I did then too. When I talk about these hits and things, it's not easy. That's why I never get into detail. I don't want to bring up names of people because they have families. They have kids now that might have heard stories about their dad. And then to see me on YouTube saying, and we shot him 15 times on 86th Street, you know. But you don't need to do that to get the gist of what we're talking about.

49:17But no, the early ones, like I said, that were hand-fed to me for a reason where I actually felt proud. I was doing a service to the community. You know, you actually feel that way because this guy's no good. And again, I'll say it again, what if it was somebody, your own daughter? You know, so that type. Then you get past the act. It's the act of doing it, right? Not for the reasons. There's two different things. I've been talking about this a lot lately because I did a TV show not long ago where I was on with a psychiatrist. And she's trying to understand how a kid like me became a killer. And I said, and I'm glad I had two days with her because when she asked me up front, it was pretty much what I was saying now.

50:03You know, it's just, it's a developmental. You just work your way there. But I went to bed and I said, you know, if I was drafted at 18 years old to the Army, I would probably, because of my makeup, the way I am, I would want to excel and become a Navy SEAL or a sharpshooter, a marksman. You know, those guys that pop up. out you know that's what i would want i would want to do that and i might have 200 bodies if i was in the army so that marksman has learned to kill the act of killing is one thing it's the reasons now generally speaking most people would say that marksman is doing it for his country or he's doing it for the right reasons that's arguable you know war or whatever you could argue that political whatever but But so the act of doing it, really almost anybody could.

51:07You learn. My drill instructor would have taught me to kill in the Army, or somebody would have taught me, right? So I had, unfortunately, a different upbringing, which, and again, it's the reasons. I could never justify the reasons of the early ones. Now, when I was part of this family and we went to war, I did a lot of damage with Greg, the two of us, the three of us, my partner Jimmy too, and the whole crew, you know, but towards, as the war went on, it was just the three of us because of the trust factor. You know, you don't know who's going to turn on you to end this war. So it was just the three of us and we had numerous bodies just during the war and shootouts and injuries.

51:52uh those i could talk about a little more cold-hearted because i was in the life no change in that my regrets for allowing myself to get in are there i'll never forgive myself for being that stupid but once i was in and guys are trying to kill me and take my business and my livelihood. What was I supposed to do? I'm defending myself. And I became vocal because at first our leadership know we have to try to, and our guys are getting killed. We have to talk to, so we have to sit down. Let's try to make peace. And they're talking and talking. Our friend gets killed. Then Hank gets killed. Another guy gets killed.

52:41I told Greg, I says, I don't like this. We're going to get shot one day. I says, what are we going to do? We got to answer back. We got to let them know we're going to at least fight them. I mean, and here I am, 25 now, 25, maybe 26, 27. I'm sorry, a little bit later because the war went on for maybe a year or so and I was in jail at 30. So actually 27, 28. And finally he said, he's right. We got to start hunting. We can't just be the hunted. So we start looking and we start getting a few of their guys and I'm feeling better because now they're hiding out. their clothes and their places down so now everybody's hiding they're hiding we're hiding at least i'm not a sitting duck then later on one of the heavyweights from the other side that we were fighting uh sends a message to my uncle albert who is my mom's brother who is well i'll refer to as a dinosaur with the colombo family he was the only person in my whole family that was connected.

53:44And he was well-connected. I mean, for a long, long time. He goes way back to earlier than even Greg. You know, there's some names that you'll hear, you know, you see in the movies. He remembers when Al Capone went from Brooklyn to Chicago. That's how far back he goes. And well-respected and well-liked. He was a good man. He did what he had to do. He pulled the trigger. He was a trigger guy, no doubt about that, but a good man.

54:16And he goes to him and he tells him he's going to kill, I'm going to kill your nephew if he doesn't come over to our side. So we got the message. I told Greg. He called Carmine, our consulier, and he said he heard the same thing. And this guy's name was Nicky Black. So he became our number one target. So we went right to where we know he would be for business. The very first day, he comes driving by. And I said, there's Nicky Black. And Greg said, let's get him. You know, that's literally, that is exactly what was said. I said, there's Nicky Black. He said, let's get him. So we followed. We drove around the block that he was making a few stops, picking up money and stuff.

55:04He pulls over, and when he does, Jimmy, my best friend and my partner, pulls up alongside of him. Greg's in the front seat, and Greg is fumbling over his rifle because we will backtrack and fill in some of these gaps, obviously, but Greg had AIDS later on. Hi there. I am fully charged, and here to tell you, Toy Story 5 is now on Disney Play. Woody! It's been too long, cowboy. Woody, Buzz, and Jesse are back for a brand new adventure with some seriously cool new tech. What? Holy butterscotch! You said it, Jesse. So, save your batteries and watch the global phenomenon at home. And the best part?

55:48It's perfect for the whole family. Power up your movie night and watch Disney and Pixar's Toy Story 5, now streaming on Disney Plus, rated PG. And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Let's jar something loose. Ay, yes! I like that. The certified fresh series returns. You're a boss. You always like this? Or is this just an act? Oh no, this isn't it. Oysters, everybody! There is a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock.

56:24This show gives me a reason to live. You fell in love at first crunch and now the crispy chicken crunch wrap slider is back at Taco Bell. But with a twist, it's crispy all white meat chicken nuggets inside a slider sized crunch wrap. But now you can enjoy them with the kick of Hidden Valley Diablo Ranch or try the tortilla chip coated nuggets on their own. They're waiting for you. The crispy chicken crunch wrap slider, a brand new classic, is back. Only at Taco Bell. Was it Guy? No, no, no, no. He got a bad blood transfusion. I'll explain that. but now he was getting dementia and this was dangerous because he was not making good decisions for us at the end at the end and again we'll fill it in uh but he hits the wrong button and all his bullets fall out instead of uh the safety he took he hit the wrong button but i had a shotgun and this guy just threatened my life and i know he'll do it he gets a chance to kill me he's gonna to kill me.

57:21So I had a baseball hat, sunglasses, and a bandana on. I leaned out the window of the car, and this guy never turned. He never turned to look at the car. And we know why. We think we know why. Because we had the car looking like a police surveillance car. We had a siren in the window. We had coffee cups. We had a walkie-talkie. So he probably saw in the mirror, it looked like a cop car pulling up he probably was telling his nephew who's next to him they're rolling up on us because they were following us all at this point so i lean out the window i put the shotgun literally a couple of inches from behind his head and blasted him and it was a buck shot type of thing the bullets spread out and uh it was it was you know horrible to look at his face hit the dashboard uh his nose uh there's a gruesome picture of that it's still out there somewhere uh you could see it on probably if you Google search it and stuff like that.

58:19And I heard later on they found his teeth about a half a block away. So, I mean, it was, but, you know, that was one that, again, in the situation I was in, I can't regret. He might have killed me the next day. So what am I supposed to do? Was that your first killing? No. No. No, it was during the war. There were a few. We had a couple of other hits. We had one. We actually killed a guy hanging his Christmas wreath, you know, during the war. He was on a hit previously, a hit attempt against us, but he missed, obviously. And, you know, we targeted him. We found him, and he was hanging Christmas lights around his house, and we took him.

59:09But this was, again, these are the war. My point is the ones I'm talking about during the war, I don't mind mentioning their names, and I don't mind talking about it because, again, it was kill or be killed. What was it like shooting someone for the very first time? Were you nervous? Of course. Of course. Very, very nervous. You know, reluctant, but you know you can't not now. No matter how, you know. Did it get easier? Um, the lucky thing for me, it did because it was a war now. It wasn't, go kill this guy because he is selling drugs, or go kill this guy because he didn't come in when I called him.

59:48So you could justify it more? Yes. Does that make you sleep better at night? Yeah. Well, no, but I still have nightmares. Those come back and crazy nightmares, you know. One of them, you know, I love animals. I was always, as a kid, I was good with animals. I have always had pets. I have two cats right now that are like, you know, like kids to you. It's amazing. I don't know if you have pets. Yeah, dogs. Yeah, yeah. I love dogs too. That's the only reason I struggle to go away for work. I don't want to. I've got kids, but fuck the kids. I just miss the dog. That's why I have cats because the dogs, you can't travel.

1:00:26It's harder to get up and go. But anyway, one of my dreams recently was one of my enemies came towards me with a gun. And he came too close, so I was able to get it from, if you know any self-defense, martial arts, anything like that, if they get the gun too close, you can take it right in front of them if they don't shoot it fast enough. So I got the gun from him. Now he turned, he started running away. And I'm shooting at him. And I hit him. He goes down, and I'm shooting again to hit him again, but there's a paper bag next to him. and I shoot the bag by mistake and a little cat comes out bleeding and moaning.

1:01:08Why is God doing that to me? I felt worse than the cat than that enemy. You know, I woke up in a cold sweat. I said, oh my God, I killed a cat. And I was so happy it was a dream. Didn't bother me that I was shooting this cock-sucking enemy of mine. You know, but so it's like, is it God playing with my psych? don't forget you don't want a gun in your hand ever again you know how did the war start okay that's great segue back to let uh as i'm going along in this life i'm about 26 27 greg uh proposes me to be a maid guy and at that time greg jr just went to prison pretty good stretch he's going to be doing.

1:01:56Greg had an operation that he had to have his stomach taken out from ulcers. The doctor botched it and he needed emergency blood donors. So he didn't want to take the hospital blood because he knew this AIDS thing was around. Listen to the irony here. 30 of us go 30 guys come right away to give blood one match one of our guys named Paulie Mellie Paulie was a big weightlifter used steroids the needle he wasn't gay either this guy was and we probably have to say it today not that there's anything wrong with that yeah of course but just at that stage that's how it was that was passed up out but yeah yeah I want to make everybody happy but no he wasn't And I mean, he was a ladies' man.

1:02:48He had girls, and he was a classy dresser, and he knew his fine wines. Good guy. But he used a needle, and they shared it. So he had AIDS. His matches, again, divine intervention. God, even Greg Jr. says God gave him that fucking AIDS. He deserved it for what he wound up being. Later on, when we get to the Coupe de Grace about who Greg really was. so he gets one match and it's infected but he felt he knew none of his men were like that he said they're all men's men they're none of them going to have AIDS the one match and it had AIDS so he gets the AIDS so now our whole crew was the toughest crew if not the country definitely the city or the Colombo family without a doubt nobody wanted to have any beefs with us if they owed money they brought it We didn't want to talk about it.

1:03:43Yep, here's your money, you know.

1:03:47So at the same time, Giuliani, Rudolph Giuliani, if you know the name, was the attorney for the state of New York. He puts up this big thing, like Elliot Ness. He's going to break down the mob. He's going to stop all their businesses, which he did. He did. and he's going to use the RICO act against them. So all the heads of the families get put to trial and they lose and they all get big, big sentences. One of them is our boss, Junior Persico. He gets 130 years. So he's never coming home. He's in his 60s when this happens, maybe 65, 66. But he doesn't want to give up the seat, the boss seat. You don't have to.

1:04:34If you're the boss, and this is one of the rules, and it's something that I learned from Greg, and people on the outside who are watching these things should know. There's only the boss is the boss until he dies, steps down, voluntarily says, I'm stepping down, or unanimously gets voted out by every single captain. Impossible. Because the minute a guy becomes boss, he makes his son a captain. He makes his brother a captain. He makes close, long-time friends captains. Is that so he's got backup? Right. So they're never going to unanimously. Now he'll be a politician and he'll say, okay, even though this guy, we don't get along too well, he's powerful, I'm going to make his son a skipper.

1:05:22I'm going to make Vic Arena and his kids skippers. So there's a balance, but you have enough that you know all 12 of your cousins and brothers and sons aren't going to unanimously. Those are the rules. So even though he had 130 years, he's still the boss. And I'm going to say I think because some people differ on this. his son alley boy was finishing up a sentence of 12 years and he wanted his son to be the next boss and the reason i say i think because later on i heard that from alley boy he would have left vic arena as the acting boss because when he came out of prison he couldn't take that spot anyway the limelight he'd be right back in he'd be and he'd be violated he'd be back so but they thought the arenas thought that as soon as alley boy comes out Vic is demoted so junior goes away for this time and he names Vic arena acting boss and I remember Greg saying it wasn't a good move because he's not he's a weak guy he junior thought he'd be his puppet but he like i said before he listened to too many people so there were other people with gripes or or or had some problems with junior persico they either owed a bunch of money that they were never going to get out of uh nikki black went to the other side because when he got made it was with a stipulation he would never rise above soldier never that's hard to swallow when you're a guy a lot of years in the life and you're making all this money with the teamsters and you're sending thirty forty thousand a month up to the boss from the teamsters and you're never gonna rise that's it so he went to the other side the alloy brothers they had a vendetta with the person goes because the one of the alloys was a boss years ago and went to jail and he stepped down He says, I'm not going to control this from prison.

1:07:32I'll be in jail for the next 10 years. So he stepped down. He thought Junior should have stepped down. That's a valid argument, but it's not the rule. You could feel he should have stepped down, and maybe he should have, 130 years, but he didn't have to. So John Gotti, big-time catalyst in this war because he had the biggest ego out there. Out of all of them combined, he had the biggest ego. And he wanted to be the boss of all bosses. but since the commission came around, they were all, the bosses are equal. There's five equal bosses. Nobody's the boss of all bosses. The last one that might have had that was Carlo Gambino because he was the elder statesman.

1:08:12I think they looked up to him as a very wise old man and even the other bosses looked up to him, but they're equals. So John Gotti felt if Vic Arena becomes official boss, vick's underboss joey scopo you got to follow this this is the backstabbing in the treachery in the life joey scopo the underboss grew up with john gaudy even though he's in the colombo family they grew up as kids they were very close very close if vicarina becomes official boss he wins the war and becomes official boss they're gonna clip him they're gonna take him out that elevates Joe Scopo, the boss. Now, Joe and John have two seats on the commission.

1:09:02That's big. And that's part of his whole grand scheme was to be in charge of that commission. So he put a weak guy there. If he would have put a guy like Greg there, when John Gotti sent a message to Vic, take this thing, it's yours. They're weak, what are they going to do? Because that's a thug mentality. Greg would have told him mind your fucking business this is our family you don't care it's John Gotti or anybody the chin anybody that would approached him with that that's what he would have told him and that's what a man an equal would say Vic Arena said oh yeah you think we could take this thing over he was weak and he went along with it and when I ran into him later on in prison he came over to me and apologized he said I'm so sorry I caused this whole thing but But anyway, that's how the war started.

1:09:53Junior went away. He nominated. He didn't nominate. He put Vic Arena in as his acting boss. And his weakness and now his newly found ego, he wanted it for himself. How many is in your family at this time? Well, the Colombo family is the smallest family made member-wise. We have about 150 made members. This was set in the rules many years ago. and I think the Gambinos have like 400 if the numbers are still the same. So you had a number? But we had, well, no, it was, no, but now the other families didn't matter. They had no say in this. Mind your business. It was our problem and we had about 30 guys on our side.

1:10:36They had about 120. And I remember our leader, Carmine Sessa, who was under Greg for a while and became the consuliere and a big part of this reason too, we went to war. he would come crying to Greg literally sometimes crying for help please and he says they got 120 guys we only got 30 and Greg told him they got 120 guys we got 30 shooters he says they don't have 30 shooters and they didn't they had two or three crews that we was concerned with that we We had to keep our eye on and fight, okay? But all of our guys were shooters. So we were okay as far as that. And he proved to be right because they went heading for the hills when we went, you know, started going around the city looking for them all the time.

1:11:26Was this one of the biggest wars in the Mafia? It was called the bloodiest ever. I mean, you know, you see, like, movies and things like that, the St. Valentine's Day Massacre and stuff like that. Those were all single events. This war lasted for like a year, and bodies were dropping in the streets. And it was, they called it the bloodiest internal mob war or civil war, they called it, in mob history. How does somebody want a war like that? How does someone want a war like that? When does it come to a conclusion? One side has to give in. And that's a weakness then? It is, but... Could there never be an actress?

1:12:08We were never going to give. We were never given in because if we gave in to Vic Arena, especially after the bodies, there's going to be sacrificial lambs. And Greg said, it's us. The only way they're going to trust a truce is if I'm out of, meaning him, Greg, if I'm out of the way and you two guys are out of the way, meaning Jimmy and myself, because we did all the damage, a lot of the damage. So if we were gone, they would trust it. Same thing the other way around. If they came in and says, okay, we want a truce. The only way that's going to happen is if some of their catalysts go. And they would have been Wild Bill, Joe Waverly, guys like that, that that's the only way we would trust a truce and a merger again.

1:12:57Get and put it back together. So, but towards the end, we were ahead. We were winning and they had a lot of cracks. Guys were coming back. Guys were making deals to come back to the family. So people can actually leave a family? Not a family. We are one. It's the Colombo family. Don't forget, we were fighting amongst ourselves. So technically, they were under Junior Persico. They were rebels. They were trying to oust Junior and then become the leadership of his family. But when they saw that their days were numbered, little by little, they were coming back in. You know, sending messages, tell Junior, I apologize, I got caught up under my cap.

1:13:35They were blaming each other. And some of them... How would you trust them then? You can't. You can't. So I'm saying it's a treacherous, backstabbing, you know, the reason at the end, the only three of us, we had about 30 guys that were out traveling around and doing it. Greg said, we got to make our circle a lot smaller. And he said, somebody close to us is going to give us up, is going to take us out just to end this war. So we traveled, just the three of us. He didn't want, and other guys, it's insulting because they're friends, and I still talk to some of them, that they can't be just, they're worried.

1:14:20He didn't know who would turn on us. But that's smart also. It's very smart. It's very smart. He says, we don't need a whole bunch of people around. Because everyone else, that's the way they all turn and kill each other. Yeah. Especially with the men interviewer, you kind of say, fucking hell, why would you keep so many people exactly no you you don't you you need the people around that you know you can trust and put a gun in his hand and you know right even if you don't have one and that was us the three of us me and jimmy childhood friends we're never going to give each other up never never and and greg we were so loyal to him it's sickening and yeah so what sort of damage were you doing when it was just Jews 3?

1:15:02Well, we got Nicky Black. We got Vinnie Fusaro. That was the wreath guy. We got Larry Lampese. We had three shootouts with Joe Waverly. We shot him a few times, and he shot back. He was always ready for us. Those were mad shootouts. And, you know, Joe just did a long stretch, you know. And I typically don't mention. I almost take it back that I'm talking about him because he is home now. And I don't wish him any bad, more problems with law. Or I don't think the family is going to, you know, go through any killing right now. They all learn their lessons. But anyway, he's back out and I hope he keeps himself out of trouble.

1:15:47But anyway, no, we had a bunch of shootouts. We took out four or five guys. and, you know, we even hit a guy that was around the chin by mistake, but he was in a social club, a Colombo club, and that caused some concern, figuring now we hit a guy in another family, the Genovese family. But the chin, the boss of that family, sent a message back that Greg already said to us. He said he was a big boy. He shouldn't have been there. He shouldn't have been there. And that was a message that came back from the chin. So it's old school. He says he shouldn't have been in that club. So he knew. He knew.

1:16:27You know, there's a war going on. Why are you hanging out in a Columbo social club? What about the relationship at the start? Where was she in this? Linda? Yeah. Oh, no. She was home. She was cheering us on. I mean, she knew, like, yeah. Well, you know, we had a police scanner. So we were able to listen. And this is a great time for me to lead into what Greg, I said the true, the real Greg. We had a scanner and there was a five digit code. Pick any five numbers, any five numbers in the whole wide world. OK. And it was a secret code that the FBI and the task force, the New York Police Task Force, Organized Crime Task Force that were working with the FBI, they're the only ones that had that code.

1:17:16And we had it. So we were listening to them as they followed us, as they followed our enemies. Then we were getting information where our enemies were. And we're trying to figure this out. I said, how the fuck is Greg getting his info? You know? One of them was Larry Lampese. He says he gets out of his apartment every morning about 3.30 in the morning. He owned a bus company, school bus. So they start out like 4, 4.30 in the morning. He's got to get there before all the drivers.

1:17:55And he tells us he's going to back out of his driveway. Then he gets out of the car to go lock his gate. He's got to do it with a key. That's when we're going to get him. So we're saying, how the hell does he know this guy gets out there? Find out later on. He used to tell us he had a girlfriend. That's what he called it. because we had this big shoe phone too, like the old days, the stockbrokers used to use him. And nobody had cell phones back then. It was beepers or that. And he would call somebody, and he called him his girlfriend. We thought it was somebody on the other side that we were fighting, somebody that was trying to be friends to save his life at some point.

1:18:36Turns out, it's an FBI agent. Greg the Grim Reaper is a government informant for 30 years. and he was getting information from this guy of where these guys would be, and he's the one that told us about Larry the time he gets out of the house. The next night we went, lights of the caddy came on, 3.20. We got there about 3 o 'clock, 3.10, whatever it was, and he rolls out, and this one, and this is another one that I see the change in me, because I was saying now at this point, we're shooting guys, we're killing, and they're just, they're not coming in. Why don't they give up? Why don't they surrender?

1:19:24So I remember saying to Greg, I says, you know what? We got to massacre somebody. Look where I went from literally an altar boy at one point in my life to telling the Grim Reaper. I'm telling the Grim Reaper, we got to massacre somebody. We got to send them a message that they say, this is personal. This isn't business. This is personal now. We're done. Anybody we see, we, you know, really. So this guy wound up being that guy. He backs out. Greg and I get out. Jimmy's not supposed to get out because he's driving. We need him in the car. Greg shoots him with the rifle. He goes down. He starts crawling a little bit to try to get away.

1:20:02Then he collapses. He's just laying there. And as we get up to him, he said something to us. Either he said, do it already, or what did I do? I remember hearing do. Do it or what I do. Something like that. And I'm going to tell you why that's important in a few minutes. But now, Greg puts the rifle up. I get the shotgun. He keeps shooting with the rifle, and I'm hitting him with the shotgun. Jimmy comes out after it's all said and done. Not after it's all said and done. Comes over, and he puts two shots behind his ear. And that's what Greg's trademark was. He told us that as kids. He told me and his son on a hit, one of the hits him and his, I did with Greg Jr.

1:20:44The guy didn't die until he got in the ambulance. On the way to the hospital, he died. And Greg was furious about that. And this was a very classic piece of work. I mean, it was classic. It was on 86th Street. There were cops all around. We had to have a good setup with the crash cars and stuff. And he comes over to me and Greg, his son. and he looks us both in the eye, back and forth like that. He says, you never, ever not put a bullet in the guy's head behind his ear. He looks at me and says, that's my trademark. He says, you put a bullet behind his ear. I don't care if you hit him with 20 shots.

1:21:25He says, he could have identified you on the way to the hospital. That's the way he thinks. So I remember saying to myself, this is fatherly advice to Gregory and me. I was like a son to him by this point. Put a bullet behind his ear. So anyway, Jimmy did that. And this guy was massacred. And it really was the last hit of the war. How dangerous was the Grand Reaper? How many bodies has he killed? You know, he told me he stopped counting at 50. Later on, it came out from the FBI. and again with him being tight with the FBI there's a lot of undisclosed knowledge so to speak they said 200 200 is a good is a more likely number for him so he's got a license to kill because he's corporate corporate well they'll never admit that but yes they'll never admit that but he could do braze he did hits that like that one i just said it was brazen we had no right doing that on 86 we were cops all around you know with kids and hangouts it was like in the movies you see the old days kids would hang out in places you know uh he's the one that the family came to to kill a woman that they thought was going to uh reveal where one of the persigos was hiding out whether she was or not i still don't know but they felt she was, Greg gets the hit.

1:22:58He didn't bring me on that one. And I remember him telling me, and I was happy. Woman, I mean, come on. He said, I know who has the stomach for this and who doesn't. And I was fine with that. And I wasn't the only one. A bunch of us didn't go on that one. It was a tight group that did that one. Yeah, that takes you a different way. Because, listen, if people are in that game, soldiers are killing soldiers. Fair way. Gangsters are killing gangsters. It's a fair game for me. But women, children, that's... There's no going back from that. After it was done, Scappy, our captain, came in. And I'll never forget him saying, after it was done, we're all going to hell for this one.

1:23:38There's no justifying it, you know? But they knew who to go to, the Grim Reaper, and he got it done. So this guy, the Grim Reaper, who's killed over 200 people, you're having an affair with him. You think you're his brother. You would die for him. You would kill for him. and then you find out he's a snitch. Yeah. What's that feeling?

1:24:00I remember it. I was in prison. I'm in the can fighting my case, tooth and nail, spending all kinds of money on lawyers, trying to fight and win a case. What were you in for? Racketeering, murder, loan sharking, conspiracy to do everything. When the indictment came in. Is this after the war? Yeah, when we were all arrested. um they arrested me in florida and it was a complaint they arrest you on a complaint because they had to take time now to put the indictment while i'm in i talk to my family on the phone every day i'm waiting for this indictment to come in and hear what it's about so i asked my father one day did he said the indictment came we got we got it so i says how is it he says well they blame you for everything except jimmy hoffa i mean my father has a sense of humor obviously but uh i got the point so they every hit every shootout every conspiracy and even ones that i wasn't on because i was part of the family i was part of greg's crew so even ones that i really wasn't on they put me in and that's their mo they'll just throw everything at you so no now later on i'm I'm back in MCC in New York.

1:25:16And it's funny because the feds have a funny way of doing things. And it's all orchestrated and for a reason. They had separations. They would never let me be with Carmine Sasser. They'd never let me be with some guys from the other side like Billy's crew. Because we were fighting each other to kill. You know, even in the can, they're afraid we'll kill each other. But they bring me back from Otisville, which is another prison. and they put me on the floor with Vic Arena. How do you do that? That was our number one target. I'm the number one killer next to Greg in their indictment, not for real.

1:25:52I mean, you know, they overdo it. And that's when he came and apologized to me. He said he was, you know, sorry. He did say, I wish you guys were on my side. But he said, I'm sorry it all happened. Why did they apologize to him? Well, he's... Well, he's... No, you know what? I didn't take it as a sign of weakness. I took it as a sign of humility. He knows he fucked up. If it wasn't for him, the family might not have fell apart. So everybody's dead and - Everybody's dead. Guys are in jail. Guys are making deals. Guys are running away. The family fell apart. But you're getting tired with it all this time.

1:26:27That's why you accepted that? Well, the apology. Yeah. Well, at that point, like I said, to me, bygones were bygones. Let's try to win our cases. You know, our freedom's at stake now. I'm not worried about you right now. You know, you did what you did. uh but i so i accepted it and we talked but within a couple of days there's rumors swirling around that greg scarper's a rat so him with two other heavyweights from the lucchese family call me into the bathroom that's where we go to talk because usually they supposedly could never be bugged or anything they're not supposed to bug bathrooms and things like that so we go in the bathroom and they're asking me he says did you hear this that greg's a rat i went after him i fucking say something like that are you kidding me and i'm ready to i mean he'd have no shot at me at that point it's not that he's an old senile he's only probably at the time uh i was 30 yeah he's probably in his early 50s but still i mean he wasn't like uh at all anyway I went after him and I forgot respect for elders I forgot who he I don't care you can't call Greg a rat in front of me so they get in between and they say no no no just we're hearing it we were wondering if you knew anything and after that I moved my my bed to the other side I didn't want to stay near him anymore the next day Greg Scarp is in court seeing you the father asking the judge the leniency and his exact words were I thought I could go home after all I did for this government over the years now that's in the newspaper the next day they call me in the bathroom again same three guys I go in and they're telling me how could you not have known that's a bad signal what are you gonna try to make me a scapegoat you're gonna try to throw it on to me is that if you know I didn't know yeah if I knew I deserve to be killed yeah you know yeah right so So I said, no, I said, I was sick to my stomach.

1:28:33But again, go back to your question. I felt like my heart was ripped out of my chest. The guy I gave literally put my life on the line for. And he threw us under the bus. He threw his son, me, Jimmy. He was now making a deal blaming the whole war on him and us to help Junior Persico's son. He's still trying one last ditch effort to maintain some kind of dignity in the life. But you were a rat for 30 years. Nothing you could do now is going to change that. But also I heard he was trying to make a deal where the family would give him some money so Linda would have money to live on. And because he could have easily said, we had nothing to do with it.

1:29:20You're dying anyway. Say Larry and Jimmy only drove me. They had no clue what I was doing. So I get a little slap on the wrist. I get five years, 10 years, something. I was willing for that. I understood that was the life, and I'm going to do time. It's OK. But he threw us under the bus. So we're done. We're just, you know, and my Jimmy was still on the lam. My partner never got arrested. We were getting ready to go, and we were going to go in different directions and meet up. But I got arrested in Florida. What's the hardest part about finding out a guy who you would die for? You've seen people die.

1:29:56You've killed people. You've destroyed your whole life. You broke your mom's heart. What's the hardest thing about your best friend turning on you? Well, everything you just said is the hardest part. You just, these thoughts go through your head that... How could it happen, first of all? How could he be bad? How could the government allow it? This is one of the most ruthless, murderous men in history. And they allowed it. They partnered with him. They were giving us addresses. That's a, it's a, it's a lot of, it's surreal. I felt like I was walking on air. I felt like I was in a dream in another world.

1:30:35Couldn't believe it was true. Even when it was true, I couldn't believe it. You know, how the hell could, is this, it's, it's like. The perfect storm. How could it happen? You know, the coppers are pulling the strings and getting everybody to kill each other, saying everybody out. They know every bit of information. They know it's just a game for them. And then, well, all they're worried about is rising up on the pay scale. That's all they care about. They don't care about anything else. So now, they take me off the floor. Okay? And before I was armed with Vic, they put me in a cell with Greg Sr.

1:31:10for a few days. But he had his eyes shot out, which is a whole other story. Yeah, what happened when the boss got his eyes shot? Greg, Greg Sr. got his eyes shot. The Grim Reaper? Yeah, it was during the war, And this is a sickening story, too, because there was a ceasefire. And we were winning. His son, his youngest son, had gotten into the drug business because his father pushed him into it and said, go make money. He winds up getting in a beef with another drug dealer. And he calls me. I go to the house. He goes, straighten us out. Go talk to this kid, whatever. So I get in the car. The son comes out with a gun.

1:31:50Give me that gun. I locked it in the glove compartment. I'm going to go talk to this kid. We're not going to shoot him. So I go, can't find him. Go by the house, go by his drug stop, whatever. And I don't want to do this because I don't want to be around these people, the drugs. I've never done it. I said, but there's nobody left. He only trusted me really or Jimmy.

1:32:11So I go, can't find him. I go back and say, Greg, let it go till tomorrow. Let everybody cool down. Joey didn't get hurt. It's a business thing. He's handling tomorrow. He agreed with me. I go home I'm not home five minutes I hear the phone ring and the answering machine comes I wasn't even answering and it's Linda frantic I think Joey got killed they Greg shot and I said I'll be right there hang up I gotta go back on the way back the block that I was on I saw like a crime scene all cops FBI agents ambulances fire department all down the street may people all around you know the gawkers the bystanders but i pass it and i go to the house i get to the house there's a bullet ridden car bullet riddled car in front of it is the one i was in with joey 10 minutes earlier greg went back out with him they went with their guns they got in a shootout these guys shot Greg in the eye but he got back in the car and the son wound up running off and hiding and surviving at that moment but he got killed later on he drives to the house and this is a legendary thing that it's a story that people love hearing and uh I walk in the house First of all, I hear the kid in the car gasping, breathing for his last breath.

1:33:40It's Joey's friend, best friend. The son Joey's best friend. He got hit in the back of the head. He never got out of the car when the shooting started. Go in the house. Greg is on the phone with the parole department because he had the thing on his ankle. He wasn't supposed to leave the house. He's bleeding profusely. He's got a towel. he's on the phone and there's a scotch there he's sipping a scotch while he's talking to him he said no I never left the house there must be a problem with the thing I got to drive him now to the hospital there's four hospitals within 10 minutes of his house he insists that I take him to a hospital that I just is blocks from here which is with you know without traffic 30 minutes from his house but normally coming to Manhattan there's going to be traffic but this was late at night so there wasn't much traffic but I got to go through tall boots that have manned by cops there's cops all around same thing I got to drive a guy believe him to death but I take him my my loyalty again I drive him to the hospital I roll him in well I walk him in they put him right on the roller the nurse comes over to me and says, what happened to him?

1:34:59I said, I don't know. He called me. He said, I think he fell in the backyard on a pipe or something. What was I going to say? So she rolls him in the back and she has paperwork for me to fill out, I guess. So she comes back out and says, uh, you stay right here. So I said, what's the matter? Don't you want me to fill out the paperwork? She says, stay right here. As soon as she walks away, I go over to the door. I says, Greg, I got gotta get out of here he's laying on a gurney like this and all he does he picks up his thumb he puts thumbs up to me i take off the minute i got in the car and drove i seen the siren light sirens they knew he got shot so they called for the cops and i drive back to the house now i gotta rally the guys i gotta call the guys up this is why it's such a horrible story too on top of everything else lives being you know people getting shot this kid almost did this drug dealer 18 years old maybe 19 almost ended the colombo war all we went through for the last year this dummy greg goes out and gets shot by some 19 year old drug dealer if he would have got killed we'd be back to square one where we and we don't have greg our fearless leader you know and this is before obviously you know he's bad this was the tail end of it so that's why he had his eyes shut out when i was with him in and he didn't even have a patch he just had a big hole in his head it was terrible we're paying gin together and i'm watching blood still oozing out of there uh it was crazy but they put me with him i think after you knew he was in prison before this is it's before i went to see vic i was with him so now i'm thinking the feds might have been hoping Greg would talk to me about cooperating but he probably saw it wasn't on my agenda.

1:36:50It wasn't like you know, he probably saw it when I was talking about we got this kid, we're going to fight this fucking thing, we got it, you know, whatever I was saying. That's a possibility. Maybe I'm wrong but I think they put me with him for a reason. Why are you going to put me with him when you got everybody on separation? Then they send me to Vic. Then after Vic and they know this issue went The security guards know that there's something there between us now. They move me to another floor. Who am I with? Alley boy Persico. Who's he? Carmine Jr.'s son. Carmine Persico's son, the one that is supposed to take over for Carmine and get Vic out of the way.

1:37:31He's the son who's the heir apparent to the throne. And now we're talking about Greg because it did come out. It's all over the building. It's all over the newspapers. Grim Reaper's a rat, 30-year informant, this, that. And I'm talking to him about it, and he tells me, he says, him and his father knew for 20 years. They knew he was bad. So now again, my insides are turning. I said, wait a second. I said, you knew? So the boss knew he was a snitch. The boss and his son knew. So were they snitches then? Well, that's halfway there. you know but here's the thing they were using him to do all these hits he made a fortune for them and he probably gave them info to help them along the way knowing he had the license to kill well yeah but making it like say oh he's got somebody on the payroll they they did they downplayed it but they knew so so they used them and both used each other right they used him to help themselves yeah but if any of us had done that we'd be killed if i knew he was a rat and i didn't say I'm part of it.

1:38:41So he knew he made a mistake when he said it, but he said it because he felt embarrassed that this powerful guy under him was a... So he told me. That's why he said it. Did you ever have any inkling? Nothing whatsoever for 20 years? I'll tell you one story about the son in a minute. The only time he felt something, and it's a funny story. No, because he's killing. You can't ever think the FBI would allow this. if he was just a thief or, you know, Shylock, low-level guy, but he's doing murder after murder after murder. Every time something was in question, he'd go kill somebody. Surely the police should be investigated for that, for giving somebody a freedom to kill?

1:39:23Because that's the worst fucking crime. Well, the New York District Attorney went after this guy. And the feds wouldn't do it. would never turn on their own. So the New York State did it. And he went to trial, and I was called in as witness to that trial, because I gave up a lot of information on him. I had a lot to talk about. And Big Linda also got called, but she had two conflicting stories. Because early on, I think when Greg died, they kept her on the payroll to help her, to keep her quiet. So when did he die, the Grand Ripper? Oh, God, he died. I was still in prison when he died. I heard it in the 90s, 96.

1:40:09So yous are all in prison. You know he's a rat. What's going on then? You know the boss knew he was a rat. Yeah. I'm going to get to that. Just so you know, New York did go after him. But he beat it because her conflicting stories. OK. So now we're in there, and I'm thinking to myself, they knew. Who else knew? Does Scappy know? Does Greg Jr. know? Does everybody know? And now I'm saying I'm thinking different. With all this happening, am I going to be the last man standing? Greg's, you know, he's going off. This guy's getting out. They're all, you guys knew. And he made that statement to help Allie Boy, who wins his case because Greg took the blame.

1:40:52It's Allie had nothing to do with it. A deathbed confession. He didn't put me in the deathbed confession. He threw us under the bus. So, no, my thinking's changing now. So I called my attorneys and I had a meeting with them. And they said, really, they know everything already. I couldn't come in with any blockbuster. I didn't know where Hoffa was buried. You know, I, Greg told him, our consul, yeah, ratted and told him. There were two or three captains that went in and told. So there was really nothing new but the corruption. Now this was trickling out. And I knew about the scanner. I knew about the addresses.

1:41:28They gave us an address. Follow this. one of the lower level FBI agents finds out where Vicarina's hiding. He gives the address to his supervisor.

1:41:43Greg gets the address. Now that underling FBI agent didn't deal with Greg. He gave it to his supervisor. Greg wound up with that address. But here's the key. It was the wrong address. The place didn't exist. so how would Greg wind up with the very same wrong address they gave it to him so that proved that the supervisor gave Greg this address I knew that I knew this you know we had the address we had the scanner uh we had a phone that we used and back then you got an itemized detailed uh list of that you made. I had that because the phone was somebody in my family. So I had that. And I gave, so that's what saved me.

1:42:33The info I had that, that was all new info to them. That was important on this agent, because that would have blew all their cases, which wound up blowing most of their cases. A lot of guys got out after that. That's why they kept me in 10 years. So what were you expecting if you never cooperated? What would you have got? Life? life. So what was the feeling like to go, finding out everybody's a rat, what was the feeling to then for you to go and cooperate? Well, let me start it to be, I'll answer that. You know, facing life was the worst case. You can cop out without full cooperation. You're going to have to admit no matter what.

1:43:11So all these guys that are admitting stuff, they're halfway there, but they want to light at the end of the tunnel and I get it. I'm not, you know. So I was negotiating they weren't coming off for 25 years now i was watching guys a lot worse than me and a lot older that were around a long time captains stripes this and that they would get 18 finally i think they came down to me to 22 and at the last time i said what if i get jimmy to come in not that i know where he is but if i can help you know because they would give me another charge uh i i since i was trying to get 17 i'm gonna tell you why all this is going on before it comes out about Greg.

1:43:51I'm fighting this. Of course, you got to keep this in mind. There's no way in the world I would cooperate with the government if Greg was still alive and the Greg Scarpa we know because he would stop at nothing. He would kill my family. He'd kill my dog. He'd kill my neighbor's cat, anybody that he knew I cared for or knew to stop me from snitching on his family. Okay. So I had to make some deal. I was going to get life or I wanted something. I had a one-year-old son. I said, so even if I could get 17, I'd be home at 15. At least he'll be on his way to high school. You start working at that. But once it came out that he was bad and they all knew, I knew now I'm making a deal.

1:44:38I'm going to do the best thing I can do. And I bring Jimmy in. So they call him. When I spoke to the attorneys, they take me out. They bring me to see prosecutors and FBI agents, and I'm sitting with them. And the first thing I said, any deal I make, Jimmy gets the same deal. They looked at me. No. No, we'll find him and we'll catch him. And the funny thing is, they had no idea where he was. They admitted it later. Not even a single clue of the direction he was in. He was doing well on his own. You know, and we had a little setup with people to, but you know, but I don't want to get anybody in trouble.

1:45:16But, uh, so this is no. So I got up and walked out the next day. They call me back again and they were offering me zero to life. I says, what kind of deal is that? I leave again. And I said, I'm Jimmy messing up. So I leave the third day. They call me back in. There's a few other heavyweights in there now. guys from the justice department high level people they say we will let jimmy come in under your umbrella okay but the zero to life i says fuck that they say let hear me out if you help us and you cooperate and work with us at the end of the time if the the stand the old thing was zero to 20 if we gave you zero to 20 and at the end of it we gave you 20 years are you gonna be happy with that i says no i said no of course not i will you know the zero is what we're putting on okay you can get as little as zero we're gonna do everything possible to get you as close to the zero as we could they were bullshitting me because they knew They didn't want me out until the trials were over because of the corruption.

1:46:35I would destroy their cases. So anyway, finally I said, and they told me, we'll let Jimmy come in. So I says, okay, I'll do it. I'll do it. They had to sign the papers that Jimmy gets the same deal. I got it to, you know, to his family and somehow or another, you know, they got it to him. And so now, like I said, it was a whole different ballgame to me. It was now it was about survival. It was business. a business decision. I said, the one person I was loyal to, I remained loyal to, Jimmy. I didn't make a deal without him. And he came in and we both got, he wound up getting like about five years.

1:47:12I did 10. He did, you know, because like, there was a bit of a vendetta with me, with them because of what I exposed. And a major part of the exposing. Others did expose, but the info I gave with the scanner and all of that stuff was very harmful to them. So I don't think they wanted me to be out publicizing this anywhere. So I got my 10 years, and then most of the cases were over, except for the agent. Then I had to come back and testify for him. How was that testifying? It was, you know what? It wasn't very difficult because I think he's worse than any of us to be behind the badge doing the same things we were doing and probably collecting money from Greg and a partnership of whatever sorts it was.

1:48:02But I didn't lie. They asked me questions. Like, all I had to do was say, I recognize him. That's the guy Greg went to see. I never saw him. I saw the back of him when he was walking away with Greg in a cafeteria because it was a hospital and they have glass in the window. And it was the only time Greg wouldn't take me in. I said, he takes me everywhere. And I got nervous. I said, why is he walking away with these guys alone? So I looked in the mirror, and I remember saying in court, they said, well, how do you know it was an FBI agent? I said, because wise guys don't wear suits like they had them.

1:48:34They had the cheap suits on. I said, you know, Greg had a nice suit on. You guys were in cheap suits. So but I didn't. And the judge even asked me why I'm testifying. Why are you even here? I says, well, it's part of my agreement. I said I would. But you're out. You're home. You're free. I said and really I just think it's the right thing to do to honor my my deal I says I made a deal and that's that's why I'm here and he says okay you didn't need to come here so he liked me that judge a state judge liked me I got along with him he was very smart charismatic so everybody's dying off everybody's turning on each other see when you go up your sentence in prison was a sense of relief because everything you went through all the backstabbing all the misery you know in some ways when i got arrested i was relieved that i was not being chased by the feds anymore i wasn't being chased by enemies anymore it was almost like uh i've been using this word a lot lately a reboot like you got to reboot things to restart them you know and uh you know i would i would have liked to why anybody would like to get less i think you know in the scheme of things when you hear these names of guys getting time served who's getting two years who's getting five years sammy got five years and he was like the worst of the worst at the time you know you hear all these things and 10 years was you know still to me it's not life you know but it probably could have let me go a little sooner.

1:50:11It was a waste of tax payers money to keep me in there. It really was. I already punished myself. I punished my family. The punishment factor was gone. It didn't even matter anymore. The only ones being punished was my kid who didn't have a father. The wife, dad had no husband anymore. You know, my mom and dad who just got to be regretting and resentful of how did this happen? You know, but, cause now when I came home and I started fresh and I, and I built up a good life for myself, it's, that's the only way to, to, to kill off the bad memories. Yeah. How were you treated in prison? I was treated with tons of respect, tons.

1:50:52I mean, uh, you know, the only time guys didn't, uh, get along with me, old time gangsters that were, when I was playing basketball with the black guys, that was like, what are you doing with hanging out? And they use a bad word. You know what to hang out with them for? I said, oh, let me do my time. I said, I want to play ball and be healthy and get my mind going. They want to sit around smoking and playing pinochle. That's not me. I was away the last two years with a heavyweight from the Genovese family that took a real liking to me. And we were walking around the track together every day. and he was talking to me like we were still in the street or we're going to be in the street soon together.

1:51:37I had to stop him and say, you know what? You know, I didn't go out like a hero. I made a deal. I'm done. He says, Larry, I know everything about you. He started kicking the dirt, spitting. He says, Greg Scarpa ruined men that were 110 % ruined good men. He ruined this life. He ruined us all. And he was so bitter and hatred. A couple of weeks later, somebody sends in, a newspaper article about me, detailing what I did with the government and everything like that. And they send it to him. Like, he wants to have me killed in prison. He takes me to the bathroom again. And he shows me the thing. He rips it up.

1:52:21He throws it in the toilet. He starts kicking the thing to flush it. He just was so furious of what happened to all of us. He didn't hold nothing against me. He says, you were ruined, you know? And I won't say his name because I like the guy a lot. Very smart, very practical, reasonable, realistic, understanding, everything that a leader should be. And I fear he went back and he's the boss. I could never know that for a fact, but of one of the five families. and I did my last two years with him. So that's how much respect I got. I mean, I never had anybody, even I run into people now. You know, I ran into one of Wild Bill's guys and my wife Kelly was with me right here in Brooklyn.

1:53:18Well, across the bridge in Brooklyn. And he was 20 feet away across the bar. We were looking at each other. We were fighting each other during the war. Okay. And didn't, I didn't take my eyes off him. Looking at me, I'm looking, he took his eyes off, never came over and said anything stupid or, uh, and this happened a few times. I ran into another guy at the track in Freehold Raceway, and he was around Jimmy Angelina, who was one of the first casualties on our side, but he went to Vic Arena's side, another guy that was against us. And he knew who I was. And we're talking after all these years, and he starts going in the direction, but didn't you make a deal or something like that?

1:54:14I told him stop right there stop right there keep this cordial we didn't see each other a long time I says keep it friendly I said don't go in that direction and he stopped and we continued talking I you know I'll probably run into him again because I like that track when I come to visit the family and stuff but you know you gotta walk in somebody's shoes you got to have their hand You dealt a hand in cards. You can only play it with what you have. Like I said, during the war, that was my hand. There was no playing it any different, you know? Even as time went on and I was in prison and this happened, I saw, you know, the cards are telling me it's done.

1:55:02You know, I'm doomed. And there's nothing to stand up for except for Jimmy, my partner. You know, so you play them as they come. Do they feel used? Absolutely. We felt used while it was happening. I remember me and Jimmy... Even when it was happening? Yeah, arguing with Greg, saying, Greg, why are we the only ones doing anything? He says, because we got the most balls, and we're going to win this thing. We don't need anybody else. I mean, he was very egotistical and arrogant, too. He just wanted to kill people. He just wanted to win the war. No, he wanted to win the war at first. But then, with the dementias kicking in from the AIDS and the enjoyment of the...

1:55:43praise he was getting for single-handedly winning this war, you know, with his crew, us. He was eating it up. He was getting nicknames. Now I started calling him Schwarzkopf. Remember Schwarzkopf, the general? They got him a hat, Desert Storm General, you know. And he was eating it up. And Jimmy and I were, like, rolling our eyes, saying, are you kidding me? I mean, this is the Grim Reaper, and he's wearing a baseball hat that says General Schwarzkopf. I mean, really. That's psychotic. It was nuts. It was really, it became crazy. And we felt, we definitely felt used. We were saying it. We're the only ones.

1:56:19We're going to get killed or for what? Or, you know, he's going to get us killed because he wasn't smart anymore at the end. Right, did you stay in it then? Loyalty. I just, I couldn't live with myself if I turned on him. I felt that loyal to him. And Jimmy would never turn on me. I would never turn on him. So it was a perfect storm. I mean, you know, guys that, you know, know jimmy and i to this day would go back to back and do whatever we had to do if we were in trouble you know uh but what it what a uh ending that he turns out to be what he was you know which leads me to your question about did we ever know no we didn't and gregory told me a story just recently greg jr are you still friends with his son yeah very good friends we talk all the time we're not Did he know he thought it was a sledge?

1:57:08Oh, he knows now. Yeah. No, he didn't know. He didn't know. That's what I'm saying. But he says, you know, lad, it was one or two times I wondered, how does he know? There's a friend of Greg, Greg Jr.'s, that has a barrel, a picture of a wine barrel, a big barrel of gems. Now, emeralds, emeralds. You should know emeralds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so, yeah. But I'm saying now, if they're finished and polished and done up, they're worth a lot of money. These weren't yet finished, but they weren't processed yet. So at the end of the day, they could be worth$2 million or$3 million. Again, this is back in the 60s, 70s.

1:57:51Greg Sr. offers the kid$50 ,000 for the barrel of emeralds. So he says, nah, I'm going to see if I can do better. He leaves. it's Greg Jr.'s friend from Staten Island. The very next morning, the kid gets arrested and they take his emeralds.

1:58:15So he was telling me, Greg, he said, I almost asked my father, do you know anything about that? He says, but if I would have asked him that, it's like saying you're at it on him. He had to just keep his mouth shut, but he really sensed something wrong. He says, he sees my father, the next day he gets arrested with the emeralds. Then two days later, he killed somebody. So he said, no, he can't be a rat. But that's the one thing he said, the one memorable moment he has where he really wondered about his father. It was that one time. What's your biggest regret in that life? Well, the biggest regret is that I allowed myself to get in and get in deeper and deeper and deeper.

1:58:58I regret not staying with my upbringing, knowing those things are wrong and not going at that fork, taking a fork in the road. I regret taking that turn. And, but once you're in, you're in. So I can't, you know, and there's a lot I don't regret about the life. So it's weird. But the one regret I have is if I could go back in time, which I wouldn't because I'll take the same lumps I have now because I have my son. I have a son. If I didn't take that walk of life, I wouldn't have that son. And I wouldn't have my precious wife right now, Kelly, because...

1:59:38And whatever road I took has to be here today.

1:59:46But theoretically, I wouldn't meet him. I would have said, no, this is wrong. We're done after six months of sex and go on back to school or go back to the fire department. So that's the biggest regret. how does kelly deal with all everything you've been through well we should bring her on the show sometimes no listen i was very honest with kelly from early on uh she was a vice president a very big government contracting company one of i think only two vice president females so she had certain achievements of her own uh did very well and we met through my gym well actually i didn't have my own gym at the time I was training in different gyms and I was teaching kickboxing and she came to join a kickboxing class and I was the instructor and one thing led to the other uh and she got had to make a big decision in her life too because when the company found out about me well they knew about me I was very open with them I told them I had a bit of a checkered past but they were fine with because they liked me and I was training half of that company in my gym.

2:01:00But along the way, one of the people at the company got a little jealous that I was doing a lot of work for this contracting company now. And they Google searched me and they spread it all around the place. So Kelly had an ultimatum. She had to separate with me because she had a very high clearance. She could go into the Oval Office, knock on the door and just walk right in. You know, that's the clearance she had. But with me as her significant other, she'll lose that clearance. So they gave her an option, either that or, you know, a six-month severance and we have to talk ways. I told her, stay at work.

2:01:44We'll sneak around. We'll do what we got to do. She didn't want to do it. She said, nope, nope, they're not telling me how to live my life. She took the severance and we're together. And eventually we got married. But she handled it, but she knew from the start. There were no surprises. As a matter of fact, I would tell her things, and later on it would come out in the paper. So where I felt like a bit of a pathological liar, like this life I lived, you know, then it would come out. There was a scene in one of the Sopranos episodes where I told her they're doing an episode from my life, part of my life, where the FBI agent hits the desk and tells Tony Soprano, we're going to win this war.

2:02:28And that happened for real because Greg's partner, the agent, when we got Nicky Black, that's exactly what he said. We're going to win this thing. And the other agents are looking at each other. We are going to win. Was he part of this? And that's sort of what started his downfall. But so there was a lot, you know, there were no surprises. How is it, Larry, when, because I'm a father, I do everything for my kids. I would kill for them. I would die for them. No, try to be tough, but no blink of an eye. I would fucking do what I needed to do for them. But when you're killing people, hearing people scream, and now you've got your son, which you would do anything for, and then you've got Greg who's telling his son how to kill and how to butcher people.

2:03:09Do you understand how deluded and messed up they were? How hard is that to then try and get over everything for you to become the best father for your son not to go down the same footsteps as you? It was extremely difficult. You know, when you think about, like I said, that's why I don't like to talk about those early on ones where the people, you know, were doing something that may not have been 100 % right in our life and they get killed. And, you know, we overlook their kids and their wives and everybody else that are really the victims, you know. uh but i i you know really really uh kept my son out of it when i was in prison we you know uh we told him i was working we never told him i was in jail at the beginning because that would be what did he do wrong you know too young two three four five six seven uh when he came back it was just so happy to have me back that it was easy to just focus on the future and the good But little by little, I had to let him know, you know, because, you know, I was still going to be in the newspapers.

2:04:09There's so many documentaries on TV that I'm on or they're about me. So I had to break it to him. And I did it gently, little by little. And I told him the regrets.

2:04:25And obviously, I don't want him to do those things. Yeah. But it's a sad existence to see. as who else did I have on? And their dad was telling them how to kill. Their dad was telling them what to do and moaning at them and shouting at them because they were doing it wrong. A father telling his son how to kill. It's fucking sad. Yeah, I mean, again, that's Greg Senior. He pushed you into it. His own kids, not all of them, but Greg and then the youngest one, Joey. He allowed him to get in the drug business. And because the father was so feared, the youngest son, didn't play by the rules. He thought he can get away with whatever he wanted.

2:05:04As soon as the father died, they killed him in the street. And it's sad because that was a good little kid. He was my godson. He was a good little kid growing up. Very, like our sons. They want to cuddle with you. They want to go to the ball game. They want to play, you know, can I come and play basketball? Yeah, come on, you know. We were still athletes even, you know, early on. and then there came a point where, and I think it was when Greg got sick, where Joey started dropping out of school and coming to hang out at the club. I said, what are you doing here? We would bring him back to school.

2:05:40Then Linda and I would drive him to school, watch him walk in the door. He'd walk out the other door on the other side. He was just losing control because the father wasn't around. And then he liked the club and he liked the money. And at 15 years old, 16, he was selling drugs. And he didn't make it past, I guess, 21. That's very sad. Very, very sad. Yeah. What happened with the relationship with Linda? Well, after the 10 years in prison, I had three years of supervised release, so there was no way of me coming back or anything. And I had no contact with her in all that time. One of the detectives on the case that I grew up with and happened to be on the Clumbo case, which not that far-fetched it happens all the time I know a lot of cops that I grew up with firemen you name it um he said that Linda reached out to him and would like to see me now that I'm home and everything so I went to Staten Island Kelly came with me and we met in a diner and it was a nice reunion it was nice it was you could see there was some feelings and everybody was happy to see each other everybody looked healthy everybody was Well, she didn't look that healthy because she's a chain smoker and she was really losing her son.

2:06:57You know, there was a lot that took its toll on her, put it that way. And then we went back to the house where Little Linda was. They lived together, a house in Staten Island. And you could see that they weren't doing well. You know how a house is usually furnished nicely. It was very bare, the basics. And I felt bad for them. I felt so bad that I had said, why don't you guys leave New York? There's nothing here for you. You know, you're sitting here at the kitchen table smoking. It says, you know, not that I was really doing that well yet. It was early on in my coming home and a supervisor lease.

2:07:35I couldn't do anything yet. I says, move to Florida. I said, you know, I work in a hotel, right? I did. I had a job in a hotel also. So I said, you know, they're always looking for help behind a desk or different things, restaurant people I know. You have to have a job. You have to just restart your life. They couldn't do it. They stayed there. And by the end of the conversation, they were trying to tell me how much Greg loved me. And they were still glamorizing him, still idolizing him. And that's where it went sour again. And in hindsight, I'm glad they didn't come because if that's how they felt trying to convince me that this man loved me, he truly i see he didn't love anybody he didn't love you people he loved nobody but his money you know uh i get more into detail about that in my book because uh you know that's the one true love he had was money was that about a closure for you seeing linda and that state you know i at that point it was either way i i not i don't want this to sense uh sound heartless but I didn't care if I saw her ever again at that point you know 13 years went by we didn't talk it's not like we stayed in touch while I was in prison uh what good was going to come from it you know so but when Tommy called and said they'd like to see you I said all right you know so I went and you know like I said the beginning was nice but then when I saw it I was still reliving this and I had a say to them I said your son is dead because of this man I said he I said, no, I don't want to hear nothing good about him.

2:09:08I don't want to talk about him anymore. And they felt bad about that. They said, no, he loved you like a son. Come on, come on. And then later on, little Linda reached back out to me again and apologized, and she said, she's very sorry, this and that, and I accepted it. But there's really, I don't know if there's, like, where she was once a little sister to me. I don't feel that way anymore. you know and again that's not cold-hearted it's just if she had been more uh on greg jr's side of my side as far as what that piece of garbage did to us then it would have been easier to rekindle yeah but it's not she's still idolizing him and you know uh selling t-shirts about the wimpy boys social club and stuff like that or maybe not selling t-shirts whatever but glamorizing that on you know social media and stuff like that uh so too caught up in that life she's too caught up in that life but yeah so see when you're going through all the changes you're out of prison you've met your wife you've got your son when did the because when you start making change the hardest thing about change for me personally is the conscience because when you block out you become a stone cold kill you've no emotion you probably get a better feeling for like you say animals but see when you start working on yourself and start trying to change and become a better father and a better husband how hard is it when the conscience tells you everything that you have done in the past well you know you gotta what do they say you got the windshield or the rearview mirror i look through the windshield moving forward if i keep dwelling on that yeah it's always going to be there but you know there's there's good things happening there's good things happening you know and a lot of times like uh i'll do you know speakings or i hate to use word speeches like i'm a president but speakings or engagements or book signings or i did the the mob museum i did a show at the mob museum in las vegas and i i think that there's the good that could come from this is that I would tell a kid, you don't need the mob life or gang life to be respected or to get respect or to earn respect.

2:11:27And you don't need it to earn a good living. As a matter of fact, it's harder. You're not working somewhere 9 to 5, but it's a lot harder to earn a good living in that life. You know, it's not easy. It's hard work. It's a lot of, a lot of, it's not the easy way out. it's not uh it's a tough way out you know very few make it to the top and make all that big big money uh but they're the worst of the worst you don't need the life you know you can earn respect just i get a ton of respect now i go into restaurants i go into places and people gravitate to me i mean still like the restaurant we ate in last night i haven't seen the guy in years.

2:12:11He was hugging me and Patsy's Italian restaurant not far from here.

2:12:19I just, I don't know, Greg once told me that when you got it, when you really learn this life, he says, they'll smell you when you, you don't even have to tell anybody what you are. They'll just know what you are. And I believe that because, and I'm trying to put this in a way where I'm not building myself up, but I still have, there's something there. I walk into a place, I get treated very well. I am a good tipper, so that probably helps. But I'm going to tell you this funny story real quick. And it was when I was back in New York for the Vecchio trial. After a long, grueling day, we go back to the hotel, Kelly and I, and I asked the guy behind, you know, the maitre d', whatever you call it, the bell guy in the hotel, was a nice place to go where we could sit, have some wine and, you know, nice atmosphere.

2:13:16He said, oh, I think it was the 555 Club. That was the address, right around the block, 555. So we were dressed like this, nice but not a suit and tie or anything, jeans, whatever. We come walking around the corner. The line is literally a half a block long to get in. so I look I laugh and we're not going to wait on line I says come on take a walk up let's play around a little bit so I'm walking up and I was going to go make a comment like what are they giving away in there you know something but there's two bouncers and there's this little guy who's obviously the boss because he's on the phone pointing around and stuff he's on the phone and he sees me and Kelly walking past the line he goes like this with the phone let those two in and he goes back to the phone.

2:14:04The bouncers open the thing up. He says, it is a bottle service. You'll have to buy a bottle. I says, have two bottles of champagne waiting for me when I get up there. We went up, there are two bottles of champagne waiting. We sat, we were, you could touch the Empire State Building. That was the view. So we're sitting up there on a rooftop, drinking champagne. But what about me? Was it something I learned from Greg? I hate to say it, the way I walked, the way I had the nerve to just walk up there like I owned the joint? I think it's your confidence, because I've interviewed many gangsters, but you are proper, Larry.

2:14:36You are the real deal. There's no fucking about with that. I think it was Kelly. I think they liked her better than me. But whatever. That's a nice compliment coming from you. I appreciate that. And again, I'll go into places. We were walking here just today, and this is God's honest truth. You know, you got these kids, these black rapper guys, kids selling their things. So this one comes running over to me. He says, I could see a made man. I looked at Kelly. I said, is he kidding? And I talked to him for a few minutes. I said, look, I'm going to do a show on the way back. Maybe I'll take one from you.

2:15:16I was going to be bothered buying CDs right now. But it was funny. He used that term. He said, I could smell a made man. It was funny. It was just funny. You know, but some things, you know, to an extent you are what you are and maybe at such a young age i wound up around him so some of it's not gonna leave you know uh but if it wasn't for that and you are what you are i might be walking around with like my father is he always had his fire department shirt on he always had a hat on that said my fd maybe that's would be who i so i you know you want you want what you are and who you are what was your connection with the irish man working with De Niro?

2:15:59Well, he read my book and he told me several times it was terrific. He asked me if I wrote it myself several times. It's almost like he didn't believe it. I said, no, no, I wrote the book. I said, I got an A in writing in college and I got an A in psychology in college. So both of those things helped me later on. But anyway, some of the cops, like I mentioned, that I grew up with or were on my case are now his security, private security. And he asked if they knew anyone from the old life that would come on board to help him make it authentic. He wants this to be a real, you know. So they said me.

2:16:36They said, Larry, Larry's the guy you want. So it's a compliment in one way, but if you really think about it, I got to tell him how to kill and get rid of guns and things like that. Those are questions he asked. How do you get rid of weapons and stuff? And he says, you don't mind me asking you. I said, it's public knowledge right now. Don't worry about it. But so he had me read for a part.

2:16:58And I think a lot of that was more, in hindsight, I think, this, to let the other actors see on film how a gangster talks or whatever. But anyway, he got me. I wound up with a part as a hitman. Go figure. Fastly part. Yeah. And it was a good looking, nice little scene. We kill Albin Anastasia in the barber seat. But it opened doors for me. You know, it opened doors. I wound up in another role where I played a corrupt ex-comp that is suspected of murder. And he works for, it's a true story. He works for Tony Spolatro, who is the Joe Pesci character in Casino. So it was a Vegas murder. and you know I had a couple of good scene good talking scenes I was behind the bar I had a dancer with the cops when they came to question me and it was really good it's called the perfect murder and I've like I said the numerous documentaries but the greatest part is the book is is well received Nick pledged he said it was he first words out of his mouth when I met him you know Nick Pelleggi yeah okay a goodfellas casino for the people that don't he said Was that De Niro Pelletos part in Casino?

2:18:16Goodfellas in Casino. Yeah, he wrote both of those books. Screenplays. He said, Larry, you wrote a classic. You wrote a mob classic. Exact words to me. I was so humbled. He was the number one guy at the time. Now he was older, and he was trying to help me along, but it's a big undertaking to get a series to go. So I hook up with another man named Joe Paletto, who is a producer, and he's been around HBO and different things for years. He came on. We're partners now. And we have a TV station called Mob TV. It's early on. It's a couple of years in. I did a talk show on there where I bring in ex-mobsters and ex-cops and ex, you know, different types of different walks of life.

2:19:02And Terrence Winter, who wrote Wolf of Wall Street, Sopranos, boardwalk empire a whole bunch of really top-notch mobster stuff is a partner in mob tv and he stepped down from the tulsa king recently because he wasn't getting along with the co-writer to take on mine so now he has the life and he wrote the script and he's his agency is in not in negotiations, but they're in talks with various networks to hopefully have a five-year series. So it's opened phenomenal doors for me. And he said, it's the best mob book he ever read. True mob story, true. And it's, you know, it's not that hard to believe.

2:19:52And I'm going to say again, it's not out of my ego because I've read so many of them. And a lot of them are written by a third party. And it's a historical type of thing or it's almost like a textbook you read and then you could see it's coming from 302s or court transcripts or newspapers. I got a book for you. So hopefully you'll read it and you'll see coming from the horse's mouth. I've heard people say they felt like they were in the car with me or they know the places I was describing. you know uh and it's in a layman's language so you just feel like and i get that that's what i want and i'm happy they say that you know uh but i like it's armand de sante wrote uh an incredible testimonial uh on the back i have it on the back page uh i haven't come across anybody that hasn't said it's phenomenal and it should be a movie or a tv series and now i'm there i mean terence wrote the script.

2:20:53He's talking to heavyweights and big networks. So I think right after the holidays, I got a good feeling it's going to be a good year. Where can people buy your book, Larry? Well, I... There's a little story to this, too. It won't be long. Yeah, take your time. I first went to try to get it published with companies. And unless you're a seasoned writer, like, let's say, Grisham, or the guy that writes the Stephen King they're not writing a big check okay they're gonna give you 30 ,000 is the biggest offer I got and it sounds like a lot to some people but not with my vision as I wasn't gonna have a be partnered up with a publishing company when I know this is gonna go somewhere that's how I felt so I did it myself and I sell the book at a website www.larrymazer-thelife.com so it's my name dash the life that's named a book and i sign every copy that goes out and people enjoy it i get comments back that was so nice of you so kind you to take the time and i enjoy that i hope i never change i want to keep doing that uh but that right now that's the only place or if you like the kindle version but you don't get the pictures uh and if you like reading on a computer you could get it from amazon but you go to the website and you get the the you know the hard copy and like I said it's signed it has all the pictures has updated pictures has me and De Niro now me and the Irishman Armand I met Mike Madsen you know Michael Madsen is yeah yeah he was fantastic guy and he's in there now Nick Pelleggi of course and the next version is going to have pictures of me and Terrence and others too so but I will when the time comes like if this if and when and I'm going to say when because I feel we're there it becomes a mainstream thing like The Sopranos was and people are then I'm going to go back to a publishing company and say now do you want it?

2:22:56You know with Terrence Winter on there and it's a big hit TV show then they'll give me probably an amount that I'll say okay you could take it over and handle it you know I wouldn't be signing them anymore but yeah this is the thing with people with getting published they get a very small percentage and then they can use their book and script to turn into films and documentaries and they don't get anything. So there's a lot of sharks out there. People need to be careful. Going forward for the future, Larry, what's your plans? Well, hopefully, you know, I have my gym. So we spend a lot of time there.

2:23:28I have a lot of trainers that use the gym. You know, we have a very healthy lifestyle in Florida. We ride our bikes. We're active. And I'm hoping I get another busy run with the series. That's really what I'm hoping for. We'll be on set. I'd like to get a role. I'm sure I'll wind up with a role. But, you know, that's going to be time-consuming. And I was thinking, and it's funny, that a lot of shows that are filmed, supposedly New York, are filmed in Toronto. Did you know that? No. Because it's a lot less money, and the buildings all look the same. It looks like Manhattan. Did you ever see Suits?

2:24:11Yeah. You saw Suits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I love that show. That's filmed in Toronto. But you see the Park Avenue sign, and everybody thinks. So I was just, I don't know what made me think that's the way everybody's doing it, but Terrence just made a comment. We are going to film in New York City, in New Jersey, where this whole thing took place. That means he's all in, and very, very, he wants it to be authentic. And an example I give is like Nathan's. You know, what are we going to make, build up a fake Nathan's? yeah we had a lot of meetings at nathan's and then we walked the boardwalk talking along because you know the boardwalk isn't tapped you don't think so anyway you can have a nice long talk and uh be private you know and what better than really zooming in at nathan's and then us walking up to the i mean it's you can't beat that things like that so the authenticity uh is going to be there and but that's a lot of money so the budget's going to be there that but that's a good sign I think with that story, you've got to go all out.

2:25:10I think because Sopranos for me is one of the, if not the best TV show of all time. Yeah. It's only Sopranos. Unbelievable. The part that big man played. But just before we finish up, how important is it to have a good woman by your side in life? It's immeasurable. You just, and not only is she, in my case, she's my best friend, my manager. That's funny. my agent. Nah, it's, it's, I'm sure you have one in your life and you get it. Very important. And I will say this, I was blessed with good women in my life and even Linda. You know, when we were together, she, we, it was, I had no complaints on a relationship, but none like I have now.

2:26:03I'm at the top of my game. Larry, for anybody watching that's maybe wanting to get involved and a life of crime, what advice would you have for them? I'll repeat what I said before because I believe it firmly. You don't need the life for respect or to earn a living. Why else would you get into that? You think you need it to earn money? You don't. You can make a lot more money the time you're going to commit to doing stupid things. Hi there. I am fully charged and here to tell you, Toy Story 5 is now on Disney+. Woody! It's been too long, cowboy. Woody, Buzz, and Jesse are back for a brand new adventure with some seriously cool new tech.

2:26:42What? Holy butterscotch! You said it, Jesse. So, save your batteries and watch the global phenomenon at home. And the best part? It's perfect for the whole family. Power up your movie night and watch Disney and Pixar's Toy Story 5, now streaming on Disney Plus, rated PG. And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Let's jar something loose. Yes! I like that. The certified fresh series returns. Your boss, you always like this? Or is this just an, oh no, this is mad? Oysters, everybody! There is a certain satisfaction when you work with someone.

2:27:21Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to laugh. Do you hear that? That sound, right? That means that summer's officially here. It means that grown adults just sprint into the street for a frozen dessert shaped like a cartoon. But this summer, Mint Mobile has a better treat. Every plan, including unlimited, is$15 a month. And unlike ice cream, it won't drip down your wrist or look nothing like the picture. Does anyone have any cash? Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months, $90 for six months, or$180 for 12-month plan required.

2:27:53$15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. All that time, you could make it through law school or you could make it through medical school and you'll still be young. Be smart. Listen to your parents. No parents is going to tell you, go join the gang, go be a member of the Colombo family. I should have listened. Okay? You don't need it. You can make a living and be a respected human being without that. You'll have more respect. Larry, would you like to finish up on anything else?

2:28:24No, I mean, I think that was great. You were great to work with. And I think we touched it all. And if anything comes up along the way, you'll have to invite me to Scotland. Anytime, brother. I'll come there and we'll do part two. Anytime. Maybe after the show comes out. Yeah, definitely. But I've done 400 of these and I don't say this often, but when I do, I'm normally right. This is one of my best podcasts I have ever done. I'm very happy to hear it. And listen, for coming on today and giving me your time, I very much appreciate it. I wish you nothing but the best for the future. God bless you and take care.

2:28:55Thank you. Thank you, brother.

2:29:03Thank you.