Inside the Royal Scandal - The Prince Andrew & Epstein Shocking Truths

26:45How young? Well, I know of some of 15, there could have been some younger, the people that were being trafficked by Epstein to the island. He worked through a man called Jean-Luc Brunel, who ran a model agency in France. And a lot of these girls from France and particularly from Russia, many of whom didn't speak any English, were, you know, 12, 13, 14, that sort of age. how did Epstein actually get his money I've interviewed people who says he befriended a billionaire who was dying he kind of gave him his wealth people say Epstein worked with the CIA and they said he was working with a lot of not an accountant but he was managing a lot of people's money he was managing a lot of people's wealth yeah it's a good question people don't really know I mean he was sacked as a maths teacher he worked in the city for a big company called Bear Stearns and got sacked there I think he made some very useful connections.

27:38There's some suggestion that he met Robert Maxwell, and Robert Maxwell used, basically, Epstein to hide his money before his death, which is the link then with Ghislaine. He seems to become friendly with this man called Lex Wexner, who gave him power of attorney, basically handed him his house. Very strange. Lex Wexner is still alive now in his 90s. But why this very successful billionaire should trust Epstein is very odd. This talk of him being a bounty hunter for people, chasing down monies that were owed. He seems to have been an investment advisor to people and made money for people. He knew he was very, very mathematically gifted, and he seemed to be able to work out algorithms in business and in finance.

28:27But no one really knows the story. And, you know, whether we will ever know now that he's dead is a moot point. Yeah, money laundering as well was one of the things that people says. It's just interesting how the relationship even started. When did Ghislaine Maxwell come into the picture? Because I've heard that Prince Andrew was also having a relationship with Ghislaine. Yes. I mean, well, some people say that Ghislaine and Andrew met in the 1980s. I think it's more likely in the 1990s. But they did have an on-off relationship, a business relationship, and a sexual relationship. It was one of the things that Epstein got a bit of a kick from, that his girlfriend was also sleeping with Prince Andrew.

29:07So there were some very strange sexual dynamics going on. I think Ghislaine was desperately in love with Epstein. He clearly, made her a kept woman. She, in return, was basically his chief procurer for young girls, his sort of office manager. And she did a lot of business deals, for example, with Andrew. So it was a very tight little group, the three of them. Because we talk about like Jimmy Savills and the Epsteins, even the P. Duddies. They talk about P. Duddy having a lot of video footage. It's like these people have got leverage over someone. They've picked people in compromised positions was, and Prince Andrew's an easy target, if he's a sex addict, and you've got a lot of women on the go who can then come to Prince Andrew, he's just going to come back for more.

29:53He seems too thick to not see the bigger picture or the patterns or it seems you could manipulate him very easy. That's what I get from him. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, we just don't know what secrets he's given away and indeed perhaps Fergie as well, in return for these large sums of money she was given. But he was compromised by lots of people, not just by Epstein, who had cameras in all his homes, and would have these honey traps. He would be filming people with these young girls, which clearly was against the law. But when he went abroad on these trips, in Kazakhstan and Libya and China, he was all for Russia.

30:29He was also being filmed. And all that stuff must be somewhere, and may well one day emerge on the internet. See that man, was it Wex Lesnar? Les Wexner, yes. Les Wexner. Do you think he could have also been put in a compromised position? Maybe Epstein was giving him girls, and then he's used it as blackmail to get these properties and get all this money? Because no one just hands their money over. Well, exactly. It's one of the great mysteries. Uh, Lex Wexner was a secret homosexual. Uh, so it would have been young boys that might have been provided. So that's certainly a possibility. He certainly, what Epstein did was he traded information.

31:09He blackmailed people, he picked up information, he swapped it, he reported back to a whole series of organizations, Mossad. It's said now he was a CIA informant. This information was currency for him and he would use it however it best suited him. Do you think he's seen Ferdinand Prince Andrew as an easy target then? Absolutely. I mean, people described it like a rattlesnake and a mouse. I mean, Andrew, you know, was set up time and time again, including the walk in Central Park. You know, that Epstein knew the paparazzi were outside, that if he went for a walk with Andrew, it would sort of reinforce to the world that, you know, Andrew was still there, he was still his friend.

31:54And that would be very useful to him. Is there any information on why Andrew went to that meeting? Well, I mean, there are lots of explanations. I mean, he went, I think, looking for some more money for Fergie. He went ostensibly to say goodbye, but I mean, he spent five days doing that. He certainly had some business things he wanted to do, particularly through Casanova's, the bank, the stockbroker. So, you know, there were several purposes to it. But, you know, if he wanted to say goodbye, he could easily have done that over the phone or email. Well, why would Prince Andrew not have his own money?

32:28And Fergie being royalty? Well, I mean, they do have money and they've made money over the years. But the thing is, they're pretty greedy. They're pretty extravagant. They go through more money than they perhaps can bring in. And they're constantly looking for fresh opportunities to make money, you know, however much money they've got. So, you know, Epstein provided some of these opportunities and contacts. So that's just greed? It's greed. Yeah, absolutely. And they're giving away valuable information, possibly from the UK to these bigger countries, saying... Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu is now streaming on Disney+.

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33:55Not China, Russia, possibly Mossad. Is that a possibility? Yes. We don't know what information they gave, but, and what the deal was. I mean, Epstein must have expected something back for paying off Fergie's debts. And we do know from a whole range of sources that Andrew was compromised, that there is intimidating footage of him in bed with women, possibly younger women. So, yeah, I mean, how has he been compromised? what has he told people? I mean, he was in the Ministry of Defence, he would have picked up information as a trade envoy, particularly doing things like arms sales. He would have been aware of family gossip, for example.

34:34So, you know, who knows what information he's passed on. How much debt did they pay off for Fergie's? Well, I think the sums generally talked about her about five million pounds. How's a lot of money run up so much debt? Well, she was very extravagant. She had expensive rents for extensive staff. She traveled widely and expensive, you know, always went first class, business class. She stayed in five-star hotels. She gave away lots of presents. You know, I think, you know, it was quite easy to go through a lot of sums of money. And because it was coming in quite easily, you know, working at Weight Watchers, or she was promotioning Wedgwood China, because the money came easily, she thought it was going to carry on like that.

35:18But she made some bad business decisions. One of the companies she set up sort of went bust. And there was a bit of a spiral there. But I think one of the sad things is that, you know, she didn't pay a lot of her bills. She didn't pay lawyers. She didn't pay the news agents, butchers, people who had lent her money. And so time and time again, she was being taken to court. uh for not settling her bills. RAOUL PAL Yeah, it just seems all, it seems very messy with this lot. It doesn't seem nothing's plain sailing, nothing's well organized, just seems all dark, very little vibrational. So what happens then after the 90s, when they sort of, Epstein and Andrew meet, Fergie, they get divorced pretty soon.

36:00MARK BLYTH They get divorced in 96, 10 years after they get married. RAOUL PAL So what happens then, early 2000s? Well, I mean, he's out of the Navy. He leaves the Navy at the beginning of 2001. He's got as far as he's going to get. People feel they've got to give him a job. And so he's made this trade envoy. The belief is that members of the royal family might be able to, for example, to persuade rulers in the Middle East or others to do things that the politicians couldn't do. and I think he goes into it with the best of intentions. But quite quickly, he gets corrupted, he can seize opportunities to make money for himself, he gets lazy, he sees it as an opportunity to meet girls and play golf.

36:39There's no proper supervision of him. The structure is he's sort of reporting to the Foreign Office, to the Department of Trade and Industry, to the palace, and as a result, he's not reporting to anyone. And that's just put complaints in, saying this is a waste of time. He's often counterproductive, and they don't really want to see him. But if they do that, you know, they often find their careers are penalized, so they begin to say nothing. And so he kind of gets away with it. He knows he's protected, and he just begins to take advantage of the situation. How many scandals have been out about Prince Andrew?

37:16Oh, there doesn't. I mean, when you read the book, you'll find there's almost something on every page, whether it's There, Miles Andy, choosing to go by helicopter rather than the car, or Randy Andy with all these women that he's involved with, often basically bypassing any security concerns, or he's involved in dodgy deals between, you know, dictators trying to take a cut. You know, they're countless. And, you know, he should have been shut down much earlier. People were complaining, you know, literally a year after he started as trade envoy, and yet he was allowed to continue for 10 years doing it.

37:52How do you shut down someone from the royal family? Well, I think he could have been sacked as trade envoy, which is what happened eventually. He could have been disciplined. I mean, it's odd that Prince Philip, for example, didn't read him the right act. He could have been much more supervised. So he didn't, for example, use his time when he was abroad to see prostitutes and play golf. You know, there are a lot of things that could be done, but people kind of washed their hands of him and he was able then to get up to whatever he wanted to do. What about the story with the 40 girls in the hotel room?

38:25Well, I think one of the places he used to go and do a lot of his playing, shall we say, was in Thailand. And I think it's 2004, he went off for the celebrations for the King of Thailand. He stayed for four days. He had 40 prostitutes brought into him in that space of time, also doing official duties. He had his half-Thai girlfriend, Sonia Kuling, also there. and I think people were pretty shocked. I had both a diplomat, a local journalist and in fact a member of the Thai royal family describe what went on there. What a greedy bastard. 40 girls in four days. You know, ones, ones, hard work. You know what I'm saying?

39:07Never mind 40. Does that then show you how much of kind of perverted... Like people, listen, I'm not asked about people having orgies or sex parties are having multiple girls, but having 40 girls and then it's the underage girls, it's a massive concern. These people are freaky. You tend to see a lot of people who've got too much money, too much power. They don't know where they can get that next thrill. And you'll tend to see that's when they do the dark stuff. That's when you do the right. MARK BLYTHIER I think that's right. I mean, I think he was looking for the next big thing. And I think Epstein took advantage of that.

39:41And Epstein, of course, had his own taste for young girls. So I mean, the two became sort of partners and crime. You know, we have witnesses with Andrew on the island with young girls, including possibly Virginia Giffray. So, I mean, when people concentrate on the photograph and the visit to Tramp, there's plenty of other evidence linking Andrew with young girls and indeed with Virginia Giffray. And I've certainly, you know, know of several women who were sleeping with Andrew who were pretty young. How many times was Andrew on the island? Well, we certainly have one episode. The information comes from the flight logs of one of Epstein's jets, but there were other jets that we don't have the flight logs for.

40:25There's a reference to an AP, which could be Andrew, which we don't know. So there were often code names used. So we don't know, but certainly there are a lot of witnesses who saw him on the island, and we have gaps in his schedule where he could have been at the island. He actually, for example, delayed going on holiday with his family in the Bahamas in order to stay longer on the island with Epstein. But why would these people in high profile places even write down on a flight log? You know, why would they keep names on a flight log, especially if they were up to no good? Well, remember that Epstein was keeping these records.

41:06Epstein, you know, needed these records. He was going to blackmail people. It was all part of collecting information he could use against them. I think it is pretty standard when you file your flight plan that the aircraft controllers know how many people for example on the plane and who they are so I don't think that's that surprising but it has been a very useful source for journalists and me What about Bill Clinton? Is he not there 16 or 26 times? Yes, Bill Clinton is certainly on the flight logs and there's certainly quite a lot of evidence showing that he went to the island and he was involved, I mean, you know, and had dinner with Epstein.

41:45Clinton's excuse is that this was all to do with some of his foundations. It was all highly professional. There were Secret Service people there. But, you know, there's one rather odd picture of him having a massage by a woman called Ashante Davis. So, and certainly a number of people, including Virginia Jeffrey, have said that Clinton was one of the people who was benefiting from these girls being sent. Because when you look at the Clintons, the amount of people who have died, who work for them, you're talking 20, 30, 40 people. It's a lot of numbers. Yes. I mean, you know, clearly there's been a lot of controversy and scandal around the Clintons.

42:23And what's interesting is how they've managed to shut the story down. Everything's been focused on people like Andrew. And we haven't really heard about some of the Americans. I mean, Richard Branson's been named. George Mitchell, who's an American politician. Peter Mandelson clearly has now just been outed. So there are many more names, you know, which I hope will come out, but which haven't so far. How the fuck is Stephen Hawking now? Like, if he's there, and they're getting underage girls from him, that's fucking weird, man. Well, I mean, you know, we don't know what happened with Stephen Hawking.

42:59Certainly, Epstein had this great interest in science, so a lot of scientists went on these trips, and so it may be an entirely innocent and that's one of his tricks that he kind of cloaked a lot of this stuff that was under the radar with stuff that appeared to be you know completely legitimate yeah that's the sad thing because a lot of these people getting caught up in these scandals getting photos with jimmy sav or epstein like i says earlier to a guest if p diddy offered me to a party two years ago three years ago i would have went because i'm thinking networking business not really knowing what's going on you get a photo of him and then the scandals break four or five years later it doesn't mean you want to distance yourself yeah it doesn't mean you're involved as well but it must be how he's manipulated it with getting good people there as well like scientists but then again with Epstein's past Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu is now streaming on Disney Plus what are you waiting for hop on the must see galactic adventure comes home on Disney+.

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45:44So one can see where they were coming from. What about the painting with Bill Clinton? Well, there are a lot of very strange bits of artwork in the houses, the picture of Clinton in Monica Lewinsky's dress, the famous stained dress from the oral sex, you know, was a weird thing, particularly if Clinton was going there. Yeah, I think there were nude pictures of Ghislaine Maxwell and indeed other girls there. You know, you couldn't have gone there and not realised it was very strange and probably a bit dodgy. What about the Twin Towers with George Bush? Was that a fake photo? Was that real? I don't know.

46:19Is there a picture? Yeah, there's Twin Towers with George Bush sitting at the Twin Towers with a paper plane. Well, that's interesting. I didn't know about that. But yeah, I mean, you know, Epstein was very sort of inventive and cheeky. I think he liked being a disruptor. So he would have had some rather subversive images, I suspect, in the house. I'm going to actually Google that because you're very well informed. So I don't want to put any garbage out there. That's okay. Oh no, I don't think he's at the Twin Towers. Is that for? Oh right, gosh, amazing. Yeah, I mean, he was very close Epstein to Ehad Baruch, Barak, leaders in Israel, Clinton, world famous scientists.

47:11I mean, he had a whole network, he collected people. Jenga, it was Jenga things with Bush holding the paper airplane, which is very strange. Yeah. You know? Yeah, no, no. I mean, you know, Epstein clearly, you know, trying to get inside his mind, you know, is difficult because, I mean, he clearly, you know, had these very strange ideas. And you're right. People should have perhaps, you know, run a mile, but I think they probably thought it wouldn't come out. I mean, he had, by this stage, served a year in prison as a convicted for soliciting a young girl for prostitution. So, you know, people should have been distancing themselves.

47:44But I think, you know, he was a very generous host. He was providing money for them, contacts, and I think people just turned a blind eye. Because the media post with him getting sent to prison, it was very tiny. It wasn't a big post, it wasn't a two page spread or front page. It was very tiny because I don't think he had the media attention. I don't think he was as popular, but it was a very small print in the post. Exactly. And when he went to prison, he actually came out for the day and could go to his office. He was actually allowed to go to the island. He only slept in the prison at night.

48:14So it was like, you know, a premier in. So, yeah, I think a lot of people who would have seen him in daily contact may not have realised what happened. I mean, there'd been some publicity when he stood trial. So, you know, there was some coverage, but, you know, people can choose to ignore things if it suits them. How many times was Prince Andrew actually with Epstein? Has anybody got a number? No, it's difficult to evaluate. I mean, he certainly stayed sufficiently often at the House in New York for a special suite of rooms called the Britannia Suite to be put aside for him. We have, let's say, lots of witnesses seeing him at the ranch in Palm Beach and on the island.

48:54So, Andrew's pretended this was a pretty sort of distant relationship, but actually, no, they were very, very close. And I've got quotes in the book talking about how close that relationship was. I think the lines from Epstein, he was a bit like with Trump, he's my best buddy, you know he shares my interest in sex he's the king of kink you know this this was the sort of discussion you might have about someone you're pretty close to rather than a casual friend yeah because even the meetings that's not including the phone calls the emails the text messages you don't know what's getting exchanged well i mean there are 18 numbers for fergie in the black book 16 for andrew so i mean you know that they there must be quite a lot of communication Uh, we hopefully will have the release of the Epstein papers soon, and the talk of it, you know, hundreds of references to Andrew there.

49:45You know, it depends what's being weeded out. So, you know, I think that we've got some of the witnesses, uh, the victims prepared to go to Capitol Hill and make statements. Uh, we've got Virginia Giffrey's own book coming out next month. So, there's a lot of stuff that could come in that could make Andrew's life pretty difficult, and change, kind of expose the lies that he's told. Could he go to prison? Well, I think it's very unlikely that anyone would bring charges against him, but I certainly think he's worth investigating. But I think that people don't want to go there, so they've used every excuse so far, both the National Crime Agency and the Metropolitan Police, to avoid doing anything which would have unintended consequences, shall we say.

50:27And what about the letter Fergie wrote to Epstein? What was the letter that Fergie wrote to Epstein? Well, I think that the line in 2010 when Andrew broke off with Epstein was that, you know, we suddenly realized he's a pedophile. We don't want anything more to do with him. We're going to cut all our links. And yet Andrew was writing to him saying, you know, shall we play again in 2011? Now, this letter is from 2011 from Fergie. It's a letter to him apologizing for being rude about him in public, and saying, you're my great friend, and you're a victim of it, like me, of everything, and basically, let's be great friends.

51:10So, in public, she's distancing herself and saying, this is all from my, I have nothing more to do with him. And in private, she's actually saying absolutely the opposite. And indeed, I found that she was staying in Nepstyn's flats for many years after this. So that doesn't suggest, and this is for a woman who professes to be promoting children's books, to be a great supporter of charities connected with young children. This is a pretty toxic reputation to have. If on one side, quietly, you're actually basically supporting these people, and in public you're saying you'll have nothing more to do with And how was the relationship between Epstein and Ghislaine?

51:53Were they in a relationship? Lovers? Yes, I think Ghislaine was a lover of Epstein to start with. I think she then found that, you know, he couldn't sustain a normal relationship. She did eventually move on to someone else, but she remained as this sort of right-hand person. And she was one of the people who helped recruit the girls. She organized things. She was a very sophisticated, highly intelligent, well-educated woman. He was a rather gauche New Yorker. And so she was able to allow him to punch above his weight in terms of who he met. Because now we've got the Epstein files that there was no flight logs and there was no this and they had no one working for him.

52:35But Glenn is doing 20 years in prison. Was she bringing young girls to these high profile names? Yes, yes. I mean, she was, you know, they had a sort of Ponzi scheme where, you know, she would recruit girls who would in turn would recruit other girls. And, you know, there is a justifiable criticism of Virginia Giffrey that she wasn't entirely a victim. She was also a predator. But, you know, we've got to remember that these girls were very damaged. They were very scared. You know, Fergie was scared about a phone call. Think what these poor girls who really had no support system around them. They weren't in touch with their families and therefore entirely reliant on Epstein.

53:16They kind of had to do as well. So I think we need to give them a little bit of, be a little generous towards them, because clearly some of them were not entirely innocent of helping Ghislaine. But Ghislaine was sort of at the top of the pile. She was the kind of brains behind it. She'd helped fix girls for Andrew, actually, when they were in Britain. And now she just fixed girls, slightly younger girls, for Epstein. How many charges did Epstein eventually have? Well, he was only actually charged with suggesting prostitution with a minor. There were several, a lot of other charges, which he was let off.

53:55One of the lines was that this man was involved in intelligence and therefore to give him an easy ride, and that's the excuse that Acosta gives. So who knows whether there was some cover-up or there was genuine reasons to give him an easy ride. And maybe these papers, once they come out, will shed some light on that. And who else was involved with Febstein? What other big names? Because you've got names like, who's the actor? You had Chris Tucker. You had... who was the guy, Steph, that was in Usual Suspects with a peg leg? Ken, well, it was Kevin Spacey. Kevin Spacey. You had a lot of big actors on those lists as well, but a lot of people says it was for charity work as well.

54:37I'm a big fan of both. Great actors, great movies. But again, if you fly more than once with Epstein, there's got to be alarm bells ringing. Yes, I mean, you know, I think now when we look at the cold light of day and in hindsight, you know, a lot of these things look very suspicious and a lot of these people are not speaking, which again is pretty suspicious. So, as I say, we can only hope that, you know, there will be more disclosures from legal documents, from the Epstein files, from other witnesses and victims to try and give us a fuller picture of actually what happened. I think, you know, Pearl Downer has kind of been the focus, but there are clearly many, many more names.

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56:48So I think it's very unlikely there'll be anything incriminating against him there. Do you think Prince Andrew's been thrown under the bus to deflect away from others? Yeah, I think he was easy pickings. You know, he's low-hanging fruit. He's not very bright, not easy to, it's unlikely he'll sue. So, and I think he's just not very clever. So other people have been much more adept at hiding their involvement or have got better lawyers to see things off. So what was Prince Andrew ever charged with, with Virginia Guffley? Well, Andrew's never been charged with anything. I mean, people have asked for him to be investigated.

57:25He's never even been investigated. So at the moment, we have a civil case, which is brought by Virginia Giffray, which is the one that he settled. And that's it. You know, there could be grounds for a criminal case for sex trafficking, even though she was 17. There could be... I think that there are certainly grounds for some of his behavior as a trade envoy, where he seems to have been taking bribes from companies nothing to do with British trade. The other area to look at is, I mean, a couple of court cases where he's emerged as having earned large sums of money, which he can't explain away, and people suspect as money laundering.

58:04And he needs to make a statement. He needs to explain where this money is coming from and why he was paid. and that's true of Fergie as well because the fact that they remain silent about these mysterious sums suggests that they're not entirely above board. So how much did Prince Andrew actually pay out? Was it 12 million? Is that number correct? Yes, various sums get thrown about 12 million dollars is one of the more reputable sums. Why not take it through the kind of civil court? Why not take it through and fight his name and fight his corner? Because as soon as you pay that no matter why you pay that If you're innocent and don't want the sort of heat from the media, you're guilty in my eyes.

58:44Yeah, well, the line was, it was the Queen's Platinum Jubilee. She didn't want it overshadowed by court cases and embarrassing headlines. And it basically took a bullet for the firm. But, you know, people will say, well, you know, £12 million is a lot of money to spend just for someone you didn't meet. So I think, you know, most people think that there is something to the story and that he basically paid her hush money. and it did shut it down for a while but of course there are always news disclosures coming forward and so he hasn't been able to shut the case down because like you said, Prince Andrew says he's never met this girl the fault was fake, he doesn't sweat it was at Pizza Express like it was a lot of There was a lot of madness to it.

59:30Is this because I had Lady Victoria on who says the photo has been edited? What is the truth with that photo in that house with Glenn Maxwell leaning against the wall? Well, the truth is that the photo is absolutely accurate. There are 20 copies of it. 19 of them people have seen. The 20th is with the FBI. They're perfectly happy with it. It's numbered. Lots of people saw the photo at the time it was taken, including Virginia's boyfriend at the time, Tony Figueroa, her father, Sky Roberts, her best friend, Caroline Andriamo. So, I mean, this is stuff that I suspect Victoria Harvey doesn't talk about.

1:00:06There wasn't the technology at the time to adjust photos. Its photo experts have looked at it, and it's very clearly stamped by Walmart three days later, which is near where she lived. Michael Thomas, who took the photos of the photo, is a very reputable photojournalist. who has sworn that it was an original that he saw.

1:00:33The woman called Sandra White, who was actually sent by the Mail on Sunday when Charum Churchill went down to find Virginia, and this photo was literally produced out of the bookcase, you know, and it wasn't planted there. Sandra White, who spent weeks with Virginia, a pretty experienced journalist, has no doubt that this photo is genuine, that Virginia Giffray is genuine. You know, the evidence that people like Victoria Harvey produce, I have to say, is pretty thin. And we also have testimony of Andrew talking on emails with Ghislaine about Virginia Giffray, how they're going to deal with her, bringing in a PR firm to deal with her.

1:01:14We have examples of the photo books in which Andrew actually picked Virginia Giffray and actually ordered her like he might order a pizza. Why would they take a photo? Why would they let the photo be taken? Well, you know, lots of people take photos, take selfies. Well, why did they let it happen? I think they didn't think it would ever emerge. And if Sharon Churcher hadn't found Virginia Giffray, this story probably wouldn't have emerged. You know, try and put yourself in the position. This is this young girl, she's been told she's going to meet a prince. She's excited. She wants a little souvenir to give her mum.

1:01:51It's the heat of the moment. and no one thinks twice that this photo is going to be incriminating in any way. And it's not incriminating. All it is is a picture of Andrew with his hand around the waist of a girl. What makes it incriminating is that Andrew then denied this photo. If he just said, yes, you know, I met this girl. She asked for a photo and I gave it to her, full stop. Or actually, yes, you know, I did meet her. We went to bed, but, you know, I'm a single man. She's 17. I know it seems a bit sleazy, but it's fine. But he didn't. He pretended he didn't know her when it was quite clear he did know her.

1:02:26And there's plenty of evidence to support that. And of course, we have, I think, much more damning evidence in that picture of him saying goodbye, the video of him saying goodbye to Catherine Keating at the door of the New Yorker townhouse. And this is a very affectionate farewell from someone who's, I think, probably had more than a cup of coffee. What about the catalogue that you say as Glenn Maxwell had, the catalogue of women? is that for people just to pick who they want, like a prostitution ring? Yeah. Yeah. So people could go through the photo book and decide who they wanted to have. And then that was the girl that was trafficked.

1:03:03Otherwise, it seems a bit of a sort of tall order. By chance, she's taken there in the hope that she might appeal to Andrew. This system is, basically, Andrew chooses the one he fancies and she's brought to him. When you say trafficked, were these girls prostitutes? Or were they being forced to do this? Well, a lot of the girls were young models who were promised that their careers could be helped. Trump ran a young model agency. So did Jean-Luc Brunel, who provided a lot of the girls. So did Epstein and Lex Wexner, Victoria Secrets. So these girls, I think, were kind of trapped. I mean, they were young.

1:03:44They were away from home. They often couldn't speak English. they were perhaps having to accept that in order to get on in their careers, they might have to do things they didn't feel very comfortable with. So I don't think they were prostitutes. I mean, I think Virginia Jeffrey eventually became a sort of trophy that Epstein used with people like Andrew. And, you know, the fact that she was then paid and rewarded for this. but I think a lot of them were young girls hoping to make a career and finding that actually they were sex slaves. You know, poor girls talk about being on the island and literally trying to escape by swimming in shark-infested waters.

1:04:23This is not people who were, shall we say, very happy with their situation. Yeah, because I think the word traffic gets thrown around too easy now where people are trafficked, but if they're young girls and they're being abused, that's a different story, you know? But for other girls who are willing to to sell their body. You go to places like Dubai or all these hotspots now, there's prostitutes everywhere who are willing to do that job to get their money and do what they can. But you're saying a lot of these girls were trafficked, forced, kind of put into a corner to then do what they're told.

1:04:57MARK BLYTHERSON, Yes. A lot of them were came, as I say, from Jean-Luc Brunel's model agency. They came from Paris. A lot of them came from Russia. These were not professional escorts. These were young girls who had trusted Ghislaine Maxwell or the heads of these model companies, thinking that they would promote their careers and they were just being used to service older men. Being groomed. So when Epstein got sent to prison the last time, what was he in for that time? Well, he got off the charges, most of the charges down in Florida, but eventually charges were brought to him on a federal basis in the court in New York.

1:05:36So, that in the summer of 2019, he was picked up and taken to prison. And what we've got to remember is this was the whole beginning of the whole judicial process. He'd actually managed to get away, you know, get out of these problems in the past. He had very good lawyers. And I think he must have thought that he was going to get out this time, which makes his suicide seem very unusual. And there are a lot of things that are unusual about it. That his cellmate who was there because he was on suicide watch was removed. The guards fell asleep at a convenient time. The cameras didn't work. The man who did the autopsy, and the official autopsy is still secret, but Mark Epstein, his brother, asked for a separate one from a very respected figure called Michael Baden, who is the coroner for New York.

1:06:23And he came to conclusion it was homicide rather than suicide. I've seen interviews with prisoners saying that you can't commit suicide in those cells with those sheets, given the height of the beds. So, you know, and most people, from the lawyers, through to all sorts of people, don't feel that Epstein committed suicide. I mean, he had too much still to play for, to give up. What's the speculation around who killed him? Well, I mean, there were lots of people, you know, who clearly would be happy to have him be silenced. I mean, any of the men who might have appeared in the book. I know that Epstein and Trump had fallen out.

1:07:01Epstein had thought that Trump would pardon him. I understand that Epstein was threatening to blackmail Trump. So Trump could be a candidate. I'm not saying he is. I understand that the person who probably committed the murder was another prisoner who was then either given a pardon or a reduced sentence by doing this act. Was Trump president at the time? Yes. and what's the connection because you see the video with trump and they're dancing and saying i love jeffrey's got the same kind of the light young woman and then obviously now we've got weird behavior between elon musk saying trump was on the island he's on the flight logs and then elon musk has got a black eye that was just all conspiracy talk but how connected was trump and epstein together because it seemed very friendly i know a lot of people love trump for me it's just They're all the same sort of puppets.

1:07:58It's really the people behind the curtain that I really love to question. I think people buy into the politics and the left and the right and all the other shit that comes with it. It's a classic divide and conquer. But how connected was Trump with Epstein? Well, they're very close friends. I mean, there's lots of testimony from people who knew them, including Michael Wolfe, who interviewed Epstein and is Trump's biographer. And I have material in the books. I mean, they were very, very close friends, same sort of interests. I mean, woman and golf, well, woman and money between the two of them, and golf with Andrew.

1:08:32So, I mean, there's no denying, you know, though Trump has tried to distance himself over the years, there's no denying that they were very, very close.

1:08:44And, you know, why is Trump, you know, trying to destroy these papers if he's innocent? You know, Pam Bondi has talked about the number of references to Trump, I think so is Krish Patel. So it's not just Elon Musk who's come forward. Lots of people have talked about the references to Trump. There's stories about, you know, literally scores of FBI officers being brought in to redact material. So, you know, Trump campaigned on the basis that he would open this material up. He then changed his mind. And you have to ask, why has he changed his mind? Is it because he realized actually just how incriminating the material is to him?

1:09:21Now, it may seem about far-faced, but could Trump have potentially run for presidency just to get his hands on these files and destroy them? That's a total calculation, but is that a possibility, how smart this man is? Well, certainly, the fact he's present has given him the ability to get rid of these files. I mean, he's put tame people into various jobs, particularly in Justice and the FBI. So, yeah, I mean, certainly by winning the election, I'm sure there are other reasons why he wanted to be stood, but he is in a powerful position to destroy the evidence against him. How many times was Trump on Epstein Island?

1:10:02Well, we don't know. I mean, I'm not sure he appears even in the flight logs, but that doesn't mean if he didn't appear in the flight logs, it doesn't mean he didn't fly to the island because there are other logs. and we just don't know if, we just don't have the records to show that he went there, but he could have done. I think he was probably more wily than some of the people like Andrew, so he probably had his own jet that he went down in and then just turned up or whatever. Stuff was done perhaps at Mar-a-Lago that people don't realize. So Trump would have covered his tracks I think pretty effectively.

1:10:42So when Epstein is, is suicide and prisoner killed. Then when does it all come out about Andrew in Virginia? When did all that come out? Was it about the same time? Yes, it comes, I mean, Sharon Churcher goes and finds Virginia. She then writes an article. I mean, Virginia then talks to her, having been silent for the previous decade. And the story breaks in the spring of 2011. And what happens then? So 2011, that story was about? 10 years after some of these events. 2001, yeah. Yeah. Well, 2001 is when Virginia and Andrew have the photo taken. So 10 years later, the story breaks, 2011. And in some ways, the real sort of catalyst is November 2019, when Andrew goes on Newsnight to try and address all the things that come out in the press.

1:11:39and he makes such a mess of it that he looks more guilty than people realized. And at that point, Virginia Jeffrey decides to bring a civil action, not a criminal action, against him. And that's when he loses all his royal status. And that's shortly after that is when he does his special deal with her. So he never had a civil case before that interview? No, no, it was just stuff in the press before that. And, you know, he could have weathered this if he hadn't gone on news night. The story might have died. Yeah, it wasn't that deep. If there's no civil case, yes, it's a couple of scandals, but it's not that deep where he needed to defend himself.

1:12:20Defending himself like that shows me there's an element of guilt, you know, and trying to speak it away and try to fool the public. But like I say, the British public ain't fools. We're very switched on. We can see people's presence and mannerisms, something's off there. Yeah, yeah. Well, also he tried to avoid, he refused to cooperate with the law enforcement agencies, even just as a material witness, so not even as a suspect of any sort. And then when they were trying to bring summons against him, he ran up to Balmoral and hid there in the hope that they wouldn't be able to give him the summons.

1:12:52Again, that's not the sign of an innocent man. And they paid the 12 million to then get it over Well, if any hope shut down the story and it would be all over, but of course it isn't all over. You know, it keeps coming. There keep to being new disclosures. And, you know, he's sort of back where he was. It's just$12 million poorer. And when did Ghislaine get charged? Ghislaine got, I think she's served a couple of years now. So a couple of years ago, but of course she then disappeared. The FBI tracked her down to a boyfriend's house on the Canadian border. and actually what's extraordinary is that she could have gone abroad, particularly to countries without extradition treaties, and she could have actually avoided being arrested, but she somehow thought she would get away with it, that they wouldn't find her.

1:13:42So, I mean, the only person that actually has been tried and convicted for this whole scandal is Ghislaine, and people kind of feel she's the fall guy, but, you know, she was clearly deeply involved. She is one of the major players. She is, I have to say, a congenital liar. You know, what she told the Attorney General the other day to get her pardon is, it was a series of lies. And she was found to be lying in the course of the court case. So I don't think, you know, she is a reliable witness to this. I think she will get out. I think she will be out before 2030. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. I think she's probably out now.

1:14:22I suspect she's been sprinted away to some Caribbean island and no one, everyone thinks she's in prison but actually she's sitting on a beach somewhere. Because she was still participating and she was still a close link to Epstein, Clinton, all these high profile names. There's a lot of names who should be in prison with her, with the information that's out there now. Has she been a scapegoat? I think she has. Does she deserve to be in prison? Of course she does. So I just think a lot of people have deflected with her, with the Epstein killing as well, with the Prince Andrew interview, the paying off the money.

1:15:00It looks as if it's just Glenn and Prince Andrew who's been the bad ones. Well, that's clearly the aim, to keep it focused on a few people who are identified and hope that that will sort of lance the boil. But as you say, there are many names which have appeared or been speculated on, and one hopes that they haven't been weeded out from these files and that justice will be done. The witnesses, the victims, will be giving testimony, I understand, and they will have names that they can talk about. So I think we will get more names and people won't get off the hook. How many ghettos came forward on Epstein Island?

1:15:41Well, I mean, 10 women actually spoke at this press conference at Capitol Hill the other day. I mean, there were clearly, I think there were hundreds, and people have talked about even possibly a thousand girls that were abused. Problem is, we don't know their identities. As to say, they were basically brought in from places like Russia. They were girls who had really no identity papers, you know, weren't checked in. One of the problems was if you didn't have, like, a selfie of yourself on the island, how could you prove that you'd gone there? So, I think there were a lot of girls who'd gone, but couldn't prove it.

1:16:13And also, a lot of people who went, who are now middle-aged women with families, very respectable. Last thing they want to do is to rake over this thing, these controversies. A lot of them are very traumatised and clearly don't want to go through the whole court process. And they just prefer to sort of try and forget about it and move on with their lives. Was there any came forward who were just after money though? Because you've still got to question a lot of these, even with Harvey Weinstein, that he's an evil man. But there was a lot of people who were dismissed because of their lives and their false accusations, they're just wanting that money, you know?

1:16:48Yeah, I mean, it's inevitable that you will have some people who will jump on the bandwagon, but that doesn't undermine the fact that there were a lot of victims, justified victims, and we need to address, give them justice. They are entitled to some sort of compensation from the estate for what they went through. I think we've just got to keep a very open mind. There will be some bad apples, but it doesn't mean they all are. And for the Prince Andrew interview, who gave the green light for that? Well, it was Amanda Thirsk, who was the private secretary, who he's very close to. Everyone else, you know, said, don't do it.

1:17:23Uh, you know, and if you do do it, prepare for it, you know, set limits to what they can talk about and make it very short. But he didn't do that. He basically gave Newsnight a carte blanche to ask what they wanted. And Emily Maitlis went in for the kill. She was good, to be fair. Yeah. She was good I'm surprised That they didn't have something signed To see the interview first Apparently I was so happy with it What's that woman's name? Is it Sammy? Sam McAllister McAllister I speak to Sammy I speak to McAllister Is that her name Sammy? Sam McAllister I speak to Sam Because she was saying I was so happy with it They were thinking After the interview Even before the interview They thought That will not happen Then they got it And then after they'd done the interview they were thinking, nah, surely they won't put this out.

1:18:13But he was happy with it. You know how it went? He didn't want anything edited out. How unselfaware he is. But he is a narcissist. He sees things only in his own terms. That's why there was very little sense of empathy with the victims. You know, she gave him plenty of opportunities to kind of explain himself, to apologise. He didn't really do it. You know, he was very, very literal in terms of the way he explained things. And everything was about how it affected him, not how it affected others. So if the Ghislaine Maxwell, with her getting 20 years in prison, surely there must have been other names who should have been in prison also.

1:18:52Well, I mean, you know, I don't know if there's a statue of limitations. I suspect not. So if names emerge in the release of documents, and if a case can be made in the way it was made against Ghislaine, then we may well see other people tried and possibly convicted. And what about the Prince Harry and Meghan Markle? For me, when Meghan came into Prince Harry's life I'm not really a massive royal fan I'm Scottish, you know But I liked the idea of it Because I liked Princess Diana I liked what she stood for I liked that she had compassion And she was loyal I respect her She had a lot of elegance You know, and she spoke out Against the bad in the world And that takes courage, you know when those two started dating I thought you know what maybe he's trying to protect her because of the way Princess Diana died and I thought yep go on but then I started watching her and she doesn't look a good person she looks as if she's manipulated his mind and that's what I get I don't know them personally I'm just making my own assumption from what I see like they're going to stay back from the media but then they're doing Netflix documentaries book deals, podcasts, cookery shows because it just doesn't sit right.

1:20:08Something's not right. Is there a potential that he has been manipulated by Meghan? Yes, of course. I mean, Meghan, you know, has come in and she's using the royal family to make money for herself and the two of them. It's sort of exactly what Fergie did. And Fergie's been doing, you can see, but Meghan sees Fergie doing this for 30 years and thinks that she can do the same, half in, half out. So, but clearly this doesn't do much for the reputation of the monarchy. if people feel that we're paying for them and their security and housing them and all sorts of things. And yet they are just using the opportunities and the privileges they're given in order to line their own pockets.

1:20:47How true is the story that Prince Harry punched Prince Andrew? Well, I mean, my source is reliable who gave me that story. I stand by it.

1:21:00Harry discounts it and says it didn't happen. As we know, recollections can vary. What my publisher said is, you know, this is literally a line in the book, we're not going to get into a fight over this, and we've put in a denial, he denies it. But it certainly doesn't undermine my source or the credibility of what I've written. I think there was an attempt to try and do that. I think what's very interesting is he didn't come to me. He just publicly announced that he was going to write a lawyer's letter. A lawyer's letter was written, my publishers responded, and we've heard nothing more. So, you know, if this is a serious thing and there's been some defamation, I mean, how can you say that defending your wife is defamatory?

1:21:47Then it's interesting that he hasn't pursued this. So it's just another case of announcing things to the press, writing lawyers' letters, and then doing nothing. Prince Harry punished Prince Andrew because of remarks made to Meghan? Yes, I think there are two episodes. that the punching episode is actually before Andrew, sorry, before Harry met Meghan. There's another fight in 2017 after Harry has met Meghan. And basically what Andrew said is actually what William said, is don't rush into this relationship and make sure she's suitable. You know, are you concerned about this or that? Perfectly legitimate questions to ask, but, you know, Harry is quite hot-headed and clearly didn't like her.

1:22:35How can you be taking relationship advice from fucking Prince Andrew? Well, that may have been part of the problem. I would have punched him straight in the fucking nose if he tried to give me relationship advice. But who made the remarks against Meghan's skin colour? Is that true? Because Harry put that in the book. Yes. I mean, and I think they then raised it on Oprah. I just don't know, but I find it hard to believe. I mean, I think they suggested it could have been Kate and did it. and accused the royal family of being racist. I find that very hard to believe, but I have no evidence one way or the other.

1:23:12I would hardly even say that. You know, why would they put that in the public domain about his family? But then again, if it's his wife and he loves her and someone did say that, then why not address it? But there just seems so much mess between the royal family right now. There seems so much divide that doesn't seem strong. The monarchy was very strong. Britain was a very strong nation. It just seems as if everything's becoming weaker here. It's kind of lost to something. Well, I think, you know, once the Queen died, you know, a lot of people supported the monarchy because of the Queen. And, you know, we now have a king who is ill, a princess of Wales who's ill.

1:23:48The scandals or the problems of Andrew and Harry. So, you know, it is very vulnerable at the moment. And there's uncertainty, you know, how long will Charles live? What are the relations like between Charles and William? So, I think when there's that sort of uncertainty, of course, you know, the monarchy is under some threat. I mean, there's still more than half the population support the monarchy. I think they think it's the best option. They don't want to have a president. So, I think, you know, they've weathered storms, you know, before. It's lasted a thousand years. There's no reason why things shouldn't continue.

1:24:19But I would argue they need to be reformed. There needs to be more transparency and accountability, not least about their finances, but also about, for example, their historical record, you know, that they need to release files. They need to be much more open with the public and not try and curate the story. You know, there are all sorts of deals between the palace and newspapers and pressure put on people in the way that we saw that the palace put pressure on ABC television in the States not to run anything on Virginia and Andrew. Because if they did, they would lose all access for interviews from members of our family.

1:24:58So there were some pretty strong-armed tactics to try and suppress the story of Andrew and Geoffrey. How is the relationship between Harry and William now? Well, I think it's bad. I think Harry regrets what he says, and would like to work his passage back. I think William is very reluctant to forgive him, and not least for the comments made about Kate. But, you know, there will be, in anything like this, where there are family issues, as well as more constitutional issues, you know, it's going to be very difficult. But I think William has to sort of, time be mature about it, and see what is best for the country.

1:25:36And it's not good if the two sons of the king are fighting, as it's not good for the heir to the throne and the king to have very different perceptions of what the monarchy should be doing. What was the story about Putin having information on Andrew? Well, that information comes from a man called Tim Riley, who has, I think, quite strong intelligence links. He picked it up in Russia. We know that Putin was passed some of these tapes from the Palm Beach Police Department that were taken to Russia. But Tim Riley says that there's a compromise there. I don't think it would surprise anyone that whenever Andrew went to Russia, he probably was bedded by some nubal interpreter or someone, and this material was filmed.

1:26:20It's a classic Soviet trick. So, you know, he may well have placed himself in a vulnerable position in Russia, as I say, in other countries as well, Libya and China and the Middle East. And what about the gunrunner friend from Turkey with Prince Andrew? Well, Tarek Khatouni is the Libyan gunrunner, and he seems to have been a sort of business associate of Andrew. He's given gifts to the family, very generous gifts,£18 ,000 necklaces. And there seems to be some sort of business relationship there. There's a man called Selman Turk, who was in a court case where it emerged that 1.1 million pounds was paid to the Yorks, which they haven't been able to explain.

1:27:08So, you know, there are a lot of unanswered questions about the Yorks' wealth. And the fact that they're not prepared to answer them does make one concerned about where this money has come from. See, when you write a book the way you did, does that go back to the royalties where they can then challenge it and say if it's true or not? Well, I mean, they can sue me for libel. We didn't give the right to reply to Andrew and Fergie for the simple reason that we thought they would just enchant the book, they would try and shut it down, that they would tie it up in legal, what's called lawfare, basically trying to just shut it down using the legal system.

1:27:45So, all the stuff is sourced, it's been verified, and we felt confident that it would stand up if they were to take action. And so far, there's been no action whatsoever. I think there was a mistake made not to run the Prince Harry story by him first, but that was because it's literally one line in a book of over 400 pages. And we just didn't think it was very important. We didn't think actually it was particularly offensive. So that was our mistake. But, you know, of course, one wants to make sure that everything is fair and accurate, because otherwise one's going to be in big trouble. I actually like Prince Harry.

1:28:26I don't know the guy. And Kate seems very elegant. She seems perfect for the royal family. I know she's got health issues. I'm not a doctor, but I can only speculate from what people tell me. But how deep is it all? How deep is Epstein's and Trump's and Bill Clinton's and Prince Andrew's? How deep is it? Are we talking paedophile rings? Are we talking just sleazy men who like to abuse women who are just so rich that they've not got anything else? How deep is it all run, these operations? Are we talking satanic? Are we just, how dark is it? Well, I've seen no evidence that they're satanic. I mean, there's clearly big networks there and there are lots of men involved and there are very extensive files that could be released.

1:29:17So it is a big thing. I mean, people have talked to say about a thousand victims. So, but, you know, we won't know until any material is released. I mean, so far we've had only little snippets of information. So it's, you know, there's all to play for in this situation. Do you think we'll ever get any information? Because when Donald Trump says that there was no connections to Epstein, that's a big no-no for me, because this was the man who was going to expose it. this was a man who was going to release the files from the gfk killing it's like when these people get in power donald trump's never started any wars but he seems to be doing a few now but he's dropped a few bombs in a few countries now and i just think all these people are corrupt all these people are full of shit they make these big promises but don't back it up that these epstein files are so popular that what do you think when he says like there's no one else on these lists Well, I think we've learned not to believe a word that Trump says.

1:30:16So no, of course, I mean, you know, Trump is in those files, he may now have been excised. And there are lots of, you know, some very influential people who will have been in those files. Again, you know, they may be redacted or removed. But you know, this is a big scandal. it just seems all dark, you know, just seems, it seems very messy where there's never going to uncover the truth because there's too many big names involved, you know, there's too many big names who have got too much power and too much wealth and too much to lose. What did you think when you seen Elon Musk saying that he'd seen Trump on the files?

1:30:52Well, you know, I think Elon Musk, you know, didn't make that up. I mean, he's clearly changed his mind, but, you know, I think that the files were seen there. Do you think the fallout was legit between Elon Musk and Donald Trump? I see you. Avatar Fire and Ash is now streaming on Disney+. It's the film critics are calling the best Avatar yet. Go, go, go, go! A true epic and completely jaw-dropping. This is the only purest thing in this world. Return to Pandora on Disney+. It will be an adventure for the whole family. And watch the Oscar-winning phenomenon at home. This is sick! Avatar Fire and Ash, now streaming on Disney +, rated PG-13.

1:31:37FX's American Horror Story returns for an unrivaled 13th installment. With the iconic horrors you love to fear, and an all-star cast reprising fan-favorite roles. Light your candles, draw your pentagrams, and prepare for a supreme surprise. FIX's American Horror Story 13 premieres September 24th on FX and Hulu. Yes, I think, you know, Trump, you know, has been very rude about Elon Musk and vice versa. Musk, you know, realized how difficult it was to make changes in government. He clearly had problems with his own business career as a result of his involvement with Trump. So I think, you know, he left government to make sure his business was okay.

1:32:26and they were clearly not on the same wavelength. So I don't think there's anything suspicious about the parting. Tell me this, do you ever feel your life could be in danger by writing such a book? No, I mean, I think people try and undermine my reputation and try and dismiss me as a writer, but I have no worries I'm going to fall under a bus. What's your plans for the future? Well, I'm going to do a book on Prince Philip next, so maybe we'll talk again in three years' time. For writing a book, it's guts and courage, and I think you're a great journalist for doing all the work, for doing all those interviews.

1:32:59That's what we need nowadays, people to be further and people to do the right checks and be very balanced. Even though it's not really, even though it's balanced with the information you have, it's still really, it's not a good look for the royal family. It's not a good look for everything, but fair play. Again, where can people buy your book? Yeah, it's entitled The Rise and Fall of the House of York should be available in all good bookshops and on Amazon. Again, listen, thank you for your time. Thanks a lot. I wish you the best for the future. And again, well done with the book. Thanks very much.

1:33:28Thank you.