Life in Prison for Killing My Sister's Rapist - Ofill Tells His Story

24:17If you're not coming for me, just hurry up and come. Stop torturing me, man. You know what I mean? Thinking, what? Are you coming or not? You know? And they did a door to door. They come even to my door and asked me where I was that night. Gave them my alibi, said I was up the road. You know what I mean? I've come back, I've seen the tent and all that. And they just normal life. Thank you very much. I went on their way and I was thinking, fuck. Like, you know, do they know that I'm blatantly lying or why are they longing this out for? But it wasn't until after the interview, you know, police interview and that, I've realised and they've come out of it that there was some crack addicts from around our area who saw us on that night.

24:58He was in the opposite phone box, tried to come into our phone box and make a phone call. And I told him to fuck off. I said, look, move. and then he was like, no, I need to make a phone call. It's important. It's important. I have to call my baby mother about something tomorrow, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, no, go and have a phone box. He was like, no, it doesn't take cards. No, sorry. It takes cards. It doesn't take coin. I need to use this one. This cunt would not go away. But I was like, fucking, I looked him in his face and I was like, move. And then he looked down in a phone box, this brave crackhead and he saw the baseball bat.

25:33So he said to me, my Cody, be careful you two who don't get a life sentence, you know? I was like, fucking hell, when he said that at night, you know what I mean? So obviously in the interview, you know what I mean? When it's come out that this person, they've got a witness that tried to use the phone box. Obviously I know, oh, it's him. Fucking hell. So when did you find out he was murdered? He was dead?

25:57When that murder poster went up and the yellow murder boards went up, right outside my ass. I was thinking, fuck, this guy's actually fucking dead. I think it was about six days later or something like that. I was thinking, wow. You know what I mean? It hit me. I was like, wow. You know, because in my head, I'm still trying to balance up whether he absolutely 100 % was a wrong one. But in my heart, something said he was because of the actions as well. And why would he see two people coming towards you and grab the girl you're looking to pick up? You know? So, you know, and then other things come out after as well, man, about him.

26:49But when I saw that murder board go up, I wasn't lying to you. I was shitting my pants. I was thinking, fuck, you know, this is serious. I mean, I've done a few things in my past, had a few fights and all them type of things, you know? When you're with your boys and you're out there and you're from where we're from, you know? But fuck, this is, yeah, it's reached the top of the top, this, hasn't it? This is like 25 to life stuff, like, it's ain't a joke, you know? At 19, though, how long did it take for them to catch you?

27:20About a month and a half, could be two months. A month and a half, two months, yeah, about eight weeks altogether. They did a long old investigation. Did you think about giving yourself up or did you just thought, fuck it, I'm on the right target? You know what? Certain times I thought about it. I thought, all we gotta do, me, my Cody and Tara is go to the police and tell them the story and be like, listen, this is what happened. I'm thinking in my head, this is rape. And obviously we just went out to approach him and say, look, stay away from her. Maybe our intention was maybe to be a bit aggressive, you know?

28:03Maybe, I don't know, man, smash him in his kneecap or something like that, you know? I don't know how far we would have went, but we weren't looking to go as far as murder, you know what I mean? So, yeah. Did you ever question it, obviously, with the girl Tara as well? Did you need that confirmation when you fought him? Because listen, not all girls are bad, but because maybe the guy, the relationship breaks up, the guy finds out maybe we slept with somebody and the girl shouts rape exactly did you have a question that in your mind that maybe the guy never done it is that why you needed that phone call yeah confirm that confirmation yeah because to me it seems a bit i've never heard of nothing like that but obviously being that young obviously at the time my head wasn't into investigating cases like that what type of rape cases there are where you know i mean there's rape cases where a man and a woman have been married for years 10 20 30 years but as soon as that woman they've got 20, I'm sorry, not 20 kids.

28:57They've got kids together and stuff. But if a woman says no to a man, her boyfriend, whoever it is, no means no, innit? If any human says no to somebody else touching them sexually, no means no. So from you past that, it's rape, innit? That's what it is, innit? Somebody doesn't want somebody else to touch them like that or enter into them as a woman, you know? That's rape, innit? So regardless whether or not she was giving him consensual maybe at the beginning and then changed her mind which some people think because obviously everyone's got their conspiracy about it their conspiracy theory about it you know and the only people who really really will ever know the 100 % truth is Tara and the deceased man you know but obviously other things come out in the trial and other things before even the trial come out about him and his character and his behaviour that added more evidence to him being a nuns, a paedophile, a rapist.

29:56How was it going through the trial? Once you got caught in remand, are you thinking I'm fucked? 19-year-old black kid from London, criminal record from the past. You've got all real stories. You're trying to help save your friend's missus. Are you thinking they ain't going to believe me here? You know what? I'm thinking that. I'm thinking I'm fucked. I'm fucked. and also the race thing coming to it as well, but our barristers were careful with how they selected the jury. There was obviously a Somalian man in there, an Asian woman in there. Tried to put a bit of colour in there, but I still felt like I'm in Neil Bailey as a black boy.

30:33Fuck. You know what I mean? This is hard, you know? But apart from the racist thing about it, it was the pressure of they're bringing up my old little things. I had like my little school fight. Remember I told you about that? They brought that up. anything that I've done bad in the past. So maybe, you know, I've got an ABH and a GBH, both school fights, but they brought them up and tried to make me look like a bad person, you know? And I don't know, they just brought up, I don't know, maybe like stuff about my upbringing, me being in care and stuff like that. And it's fucked up how the barristers word things, you know, they'll show the jury, look, this is his character, but this is where the bad part of his character is, and then they'll focus in on that.

31:18You know what I mean? They're the best at giving the fucking twisted vocabulary. Was it one thing you were charged with? Yeah, it was murder. My barrister tried to get me a plea for manslaughter, a plea bargain, but the prosecution said they will only take me and my co-defendant as a package on the manslaughter. Not one of us asking for manslaughter and everyone's still on the murder. So that was a hard part in the trial as well, because I'm saying to my co-defender, let's just go for the manslaughter. But he's saying, listen, I'm not taking nothing. I'm going home. As far as I'm concerned, he was saying, I didn't do nothing much.

32:00I hit him a couple of times around his shoulder and his neck to get him off a tar. Then I smashed his car. So I'm standing in there thinking, fucking hell, yeah. Probably he's fucking all me then, innit? All right, then whatever. I do what you got to do, mate. yeah try and get yourself home I'll try and get myself home so it's almost like a cutthroat trial between me and my co-defendant but it's the barristers that are doing the cutthroat and you see it's not us doing it in the trial it's the way the barristers are presenting our case as individuals and in my case my barrister was saying look this young man was at home with his missus ain't seen his friend for a while now I know where his friend calls him asked him to assist him for a serious situation I give him that support it goes a bit too far and now I'm in the thick of it.

32:44I didn't got any intention to murder my man. You know, I'm just helping out my friend and his girlfriend, you know. So my co-defendant's barrister, he's putting across his case as, well, yeah, it is a crime of passion, if you want to put it like that. And he was led by his emotions. So there might be some diminished responsibility in there. Yeah, and these are the things that he done on the night. So how this man ended up dying, you just have to use your head members of the jury and it isn't hard to work out. What are the witnesses saying? It's 14 witnesses. Starting a business can seem like a daunting task, unless you have a partner like Shopify.

33:32They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website, to marketing, to selling, and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz, and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your$1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer. Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile with your summer price forecast. Now, unfortunately, we're seeing rising costs across the country with possibility that big wireless hates you. 100%. Now over here at Mint Mobile, we're seeing sunny skies and dropping prices.

34:11Every plan to just$15 a month. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. Striving Road, big high road on Frenzy Park. What are the witnesses saying? Seven of the witnesses are saying that the shorter one they're referring to me and my Cody's a taller one, the shorter one done most of the hitting and the taller one was smashing up the car.

34:40Seven of them are saying total madness. They're saying that the guy was on the floor lying down flat, you know, and I'm hitting him while he's lying on the floor and the guy was never even lying on the floor, you know, and some of them are saying other things like the taller one done more hitting and the shorter one, they don't know what the shorter one was doing and stuff like that. So it was, it was hard watching the barristers go at it. And I wasn't in a position, you know, when you're in court, you can't just shout things out. You have to, you know, make the process play itself out, how it plays out.

35:13And then you've got the judge's recommendations. And then another hard thing about the trial was, Tara wasn't in our trial. She got a plea bargain for conspiracy to assault. So initially it was all on the murder charge. Then Tara went down from the murder, down to manslaughter. They went, put her in and they realised that, they couldn't even pin manslaughter on her because she never had no physical, you know, interaction with the guy for the assault happening on him. So they gave her a conspiracy to assault because she possibly had a clue that there might be something kicking off, but she didn't know it was going to go that far.

35:49You know, so they took her out of our trial and she was next door in another courtroom. So the jury are getting told this story about a girl who got raped, but there's no girl in the physical form. but the judge is directing them to believe that we were told the story this girl is real but she won't be part of this trial but they're still sending notes to the judge going are we going to hear from the girl that's how much i think it was important for her to say what happened to her and that maybe could have you know changed the decision with the jury maybe yeah how was it going against your friend the guy who's asked you to be there so you're basically there to help him but yet he's kind of turned against each other.

36:27Yeah, it was hard. It was hard, man. I was thinking, like I said, is it my fault? But then I'm thinking, it's not my fault. You called me out of my ass. So anything that happens after that, it is kind of your responsibility, isn't it? Like, well, you called me out of my ass. I come to support you. I've hit the guy to get him off a tire. Then he's trying to come for me and grab the battle for me. I just have to be normal now and defend myself. If that's gone too far, it's still all on you, mate. You know what I mean? This is your show. He brought me along to your show. So what's going on now? But it's just like he wanted to slide off on his own avenue.

37:03You know what I mean? But it ended up, look, they said, all right, none of you are taking the manslaughter. If both of you aren't taking the manslaughter, then that's it, you're both on the murder. And that's it, we're both convicted for murder. How was it then when you get convicted? Was the evidence all against you anyway? Did you know that you were going to get a guilty? Kind of, yeah, because they found the baseball bats, the prints were on them. They had witness statements, the ID parade, they picked us out and that guy from the night, the crackhead guy, I want to use the phone box, you know, his evidence was powerful for them, you know, cause he saw the bats, he saw us, you know, plain faces and so it was hard.

37:45I was just thinking in my head, oh, why don't I get 25? You know, cause at that time, all I know about life sentences, 25 to life, 25 to life, and like you hear it on the TV and stuff, you know? so I was just thinking oh I don't get 25 anything kind of that I could probably deal with it did you ever get to say why you done it did that ever get used in court

38:05my statement yeah it got used the statement my barrister put across from me got used in court yeah yeah I said my piece but obviously it wasn't good enough what was his previous convictions the guy you killed right I'm not sure of that because he was a illegal person in the country didn't have a passport to me in this country. So, but basically they want the character reference from him for that reason, from this man's family. Yeah. His closest family members. So, and they wanted somebody as well who could give evidence that they saw Tara come around to his house a few times. Yeah. So they want to know whether the story that she was telling us was true.

38:49So who better than his younger brother that was there. on the occasions that Tara went round to the house to have this social gathering. He was there with his friends. Apparently he gave evidence. He was a young boy, probably about 16 at the time, I would say. Well-spoken, you know, well-presented. Excuse me. Yeah, he presented himself very well.

39:13And I thought he was going to paint a glowing picture of his brother. My brother's a great guy. You know what I mean? He's this, he's that. It's a shame he died. But I was shocked, James, because he actually, when he started speaking and telling the character of his brother, he said that his brother used to go to fun fairs. But first of all, he said, yeah, I remember to her, she did come round to the house a couple of times. And I do remember the time they went in the bedroom or something like that, yeah? Then he was asked what kind of character he was, was he with women in the public? And he said, oh, well, sometimes, well, most of the time he used to try and go to fun fairs and things like that to pick up young, really young girls.

39:46And I told him, stop doing that, stop doing that. That's not good. but he wouldn't listen to me. And he said, oh, he's got a lot of baby mothers as well. Yeah. For people who don't know what baby mothers are, that's like, he has got a lot of women pregnant basically all over the place and, you know, stuff like that. So I was surprised to hear that. And also with that, when my girlfriend saw the murder would go up in the street, she said to me that she knows that guy's face because he tried to rape her in the hairdressers about a year before she met me. So I'm putting all of these things together in my head.

40:22What my girlfriend said, what his boyfriend, what his brother said, what the editor said. I don't know about that. I think this guy, without me knowing him, even having a word of him, the people that are most close to him are all saying the same thing that he's been close to. He got kind of close to my ex-girlfriend I was with at the time and tried to rape her. And she didn't have no reason to say that about him, you know and his own brother his own flesh and blood telling old Bailey that he's trying to pick up young girls underage girls from fan fairs yeah so he was a serial beast serial beast proper beast so it kind of gave me a satisfaction of what I had done as in like because did you doubt it I did doubt myself that maybe he was innocent yes I did 100 % I doubted it if but maybe could she be lying but with what my ex-girlfriend said and then what his brother said and it's sad to say that but you've still got to look at it at all angles of course of course I'm a real person yeah you're lying in a cell and you're thinking fuck what if I was wrong exactly but when you hear that then you go do you know what I've done the right thing he was a serial beast he's trying to pick up young girls he's rating women then it gives you a little bit of peace of mind you never want to take a man's life let's be honest because that will live with you to the day you die exactly did that give you a bit of satisfaction then if you did get a big sentence yeah they could handle it a bit better.

41:46Yeah, definitely. I can hold my head up, you know, and be like, well, I know what I did, you know what I mean, was the right thing in the eyes of God and the eyes of society who have got their right mind on. Some people in society ain't got their right mind on. Some people in society will be like, well, he can do what, he can rape when he's not, no one's got the right to take his life and stuff like that. And I'm not saying I had the right to take his life, but that's just how the situation unfolded. That's how it happened. That was his destiny. That was his fate. Everybody knows the old saying, live by the sword.

42:15You die by the sword, yeah? We know it. You live by the gun, you die by the gun. So, you know what I mean? You live by fuckery and evilness, you're probably gonna die a horrible way. How does it feel to kill a man?

42:33It's a strange feeling. It's a strange feeling. You wonder if you got the curse of a killer, you know? if you're a godly man like myself, you know what I mean? And believe in karma and stuff like that. You know what I mean? And the Bible, Old Testament and stuff like that. I shall not this, I shall not that. You start thinking, hold on a minute. Have I broken one of them? But hold on a minute. I'm on the right side of the line here. I've stopped a monster attacking women. So do these rules and karmas and that apply to me? so is it is it going to come back for me did I do the wrong thing so if I'm on the right side of the line am I alright so it plays on my conscience it did play on my conscience for a long while but nowadays I'm alright you know did you know what sentence you were getting when you got a guilty no my barrister said to me it could be anything up to 20 he said in these situations they can give you natural life if they want to but it all depends on the judge depends what he's had for breakfast or did he have breakfast you know did he get his leg over last night you know like what mood is he in and people kept saying that throughout the whole of my trial it depends what mood the judge is in depend what mood the judge is and i'm thinking fuck the judge it depends what the fucking jury is coming up with and what my barrister is doing innit judge can only go off for the law innit quote the archer board and give direction and then obviously go by the archer board again and look at the maximum he can give and the minimum he can give and find somewhere fair in between given individual circumstances you know yeah so um yeah what was that feeling when you got your 12 was it a relief are you thinking fuck man i'm gonna be locked in a cage for 12 years starting a business can seem like a daunting task unless you have a partner like shopify they have the tools you need to start and grow your business from designing a website to marketing to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need.

44:38There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz, and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your$1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer. Do you hear that? That sound, right? That means that summer's officially here. It means that grown adults just sprint into the street for a frozen dessert shaped like a cartoon. But this summer, Mint Mobile has a better treat. Every plan, including unlimited, is$15 a month. And unlike ice cream, it won't drip down your wrist or look nothing like the picture. Does anyone have any cash?

45:11Give it a try at midmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. It was double-edged, you know. It was relief, and it was fuck, you know. But it was relief. It wasn't the 25, and it wasn't the natural life. You know what I mean? but it was fucking hell. What was it like your first night in prison? It was shit, man. You know what I mean? I thought, right, this is the start of fucking many years to come, man.

45:42Like, what the fuck, man? How am I going to deal with this tomorrow, like, when I come out the cell? Like, because at the time, I didn't really know who that guy was that intimately, you know, and being from my area, I'm thinking, okay, this is Joe you're going to. Everyone knows everyone. It's a small world, fucking tiny country, isn't it? You know what I mean? The jail system's even fucking smaller. And if you are who you say you are, Mr. Badman, this, that, and the other, you probably got a couple of bad man friends and stuff like that. And then bad people who are in these places, innit? Prison.

46:14So fucking hell, mate. I gotta be ready for any cunt that wants to come, step to me, and I'm gonna be defending, I killed a rapist, mate. So if you wanna fucking come and fuck with me for your rapist, mate, then I'm gonna fucking end up dying in there, innit? So I'm coming out of my soul with that mentality. Fuck, someone might try and come for me. I've got to be ready to take their life before they're trying to take mine See when you're inside there how hard is it to try and not go full scale criminal full scale bad man to then try and work your way through your sentence and come out and try and then make something of your life Did you think in there like you said walking out of that mentality I ain't fucking around man I'll kill again if somebody wants to put it on me Did you have to ginn with that mentality or did you try and work on yourself straight away?

47:03You know what? I had that mentality for a good, I don't know, man, first half of my sentence. You know what I mean? Towards the end, when they start dangling C-cat and D-cat carrots in front of you. You know what I mean? They call it the system, innit? You need to switch off your system head and then start switching back on your road head and getting ready to go home, your D-cat head, innit? You know what I mean? So when you get a taste of D-cat now, you realise, yeah, I've got to switch off my system head. there's no one in there that's trying to you know i mean stab man up or uh or fight with man everyone's trying to go home everyone's trying to go to work from dcat you know i mean you get the odd idiot you know i mean he's in there for a little fucking tda or something like that you know i mean or little white collar crime you know i mean where he's gonna afford to be a dickhead and try and give you a bit of lip but you know who those guys are they're just trying to you know i mean bait you to see you get kicked out with them you know i mean so dcat's horrible place at the same time.

47:56How were you treated in prison after your crime? I was all right. Did you get respect for it? Yeah, I did. I got respect for everyone, from the governors to the, I mean, screws, you know what I mean? All the mandem. Yeah, I got respect for that still, but obviously prison is prison. You've got always a dickhead somewhere that wants to try it with you, you know what I mean? Test you. Yeah, test you out, you know what I mean? Try and see if they can get two stripes off you or something like that. But, you know what I mean? I've had my fierce few scrapes in there, you know what I mean, with people.

48:23but yeah, this is the fucking belly of the beast, man. How many prisons were you in? Fuck, a lot, man. Probably about 15 or 17 altogether, I think, yeah. Why so many? Because they started me off in Felton and I had to get started up and then go to, sorry, after Ellsbury, I got started up and went Gartree and then from Gartree, that's still B-Cat. So then you're trying to get to C-Cats, But what it is now, I'm from London, and they've sent me way out of the area to these country-far jails, so it's far for my family to see me. So while they're sending me through these system jails, I'm always trying to get back closer to London to see my family.

49:08So I'm doing sideways moves, and then they want me to do a course or something like that, and the jail that I'm in don't do the course, so I've got to go somewhere else. And then you hear about somewhere like a TC, like Dovegate, half of the prison is like normal and half of prison, they do a therapeutic community. So when you're halfway kind of through your sentence, like my sentence was, I was thinking, all right, I need to get from a C-cat to get an easy D-cat. What can I do to avoid all of these courses that are probably going to be chucked at me? You hear about TC. If you do a period on a therapeutic community, the psychologists and the staff on there qualify to write you up a good report, put it in front of the parole board, you know, and get a fast track to a DCAT, you know?

49:52So you're trying all of these little tricks in the system to try and, you know what I mean? Get to a DCAT as fast as you can, man. So there comes a stage in my sense, there become a stage in my sense where I had to switch off that aggressive, you know, that defensiveness almost, you know what I mean? That defense, every day I come out, I'm on defense mode. You know what I mean? No one trying to step on my toe or no one trying to take advantage of me, you know what I mean? I have to meet people in there at the same time. Yeah, I'm a lifer. but this is my house as well, you know. I do live here and I'm ready to stay here forever, you know.

50:21So don't take the piss. What did your Cody get? He got one more year than me. Did he? Yeah, he got one more year than me. How's your relationship now? I don't speak to him. I speak to him. I'm not allowed to speak to him. It's part of the licence condition. Do you hold a grudge against that? Asking you to help him? You know what? Or is that your mentality? I don't, you know. I don't. But what I do kind of still dislike is the decision, the decision not to take the manslaughter. Could have been that years ago. You know what I mean? It's almost like even the, I felt like the whole court wanted us both to take the manslaughter, you know, because they weren't left.

51:01Because I think in the trial, if I'm right, I am right as well, you know. They, the jury wanted to know, can they give one of us, one they say, can we give one manslaughter and one murder and stuff like that. And I was like, yes. You know what I mean? It's working, but it's half working, isn't it? Why are they asking, can we give one, the other, and what? You know what I mean? So they probably would have, man, because they knew. They didn't go out there with intention to murder, but obviously because of the actions and the violence and the injuries, yeah, it's a manslaughter, isn't it? So there's no life license hanging over your head.

51:31You know what I mean? You ain't got to go through tons of shit. You know what I mean? You can get out after, what, four or five years or something like that. You know what I mean? Being a DCAT fucking after, what, two years, three years or something like that. How was it being away from your mum and your sisters? As a protector that you aren't always being there for them? That was hard, that was hard, that was hard. You know what? One of the hardest things altogether I had to do is that staying away from my family. And the distance as well, they had to travel, to come and see me. And sometimes they couldn't always come and see me.

52:03You know what I mean? So yeah, that was hard, man. There'll come periods of time where I wouldn't even want to see them. They'd ask, how come you not send me no VOs? Am I right? Am I right? I would say. I was lying, man, because I just didn't want them to, you know what I mean? Travel that far enough to go away all the time, you know what I mean? And come and see the conditions I'm living in. And you know what I mean? And seeing their emotional, you know what I mean? Breakdown and stuff like that. I didn't want to deal with that, man. So I was just like, all right, cool, man. I just always phoned them.

52:35Phone calls, phone calls, phone calls. You know what I mean? Yeah. What was it like getting out for the first time after 12 years? It was good. It was good. It was good. It was so good, man. I was buzzing. I was like, I want to play this partying as much as I could. Yeah. It was good, man. It was good. It was good. Yeah. What do you think looking back at it now? That was a long time ago now. What was it? How many years? 2003? It's probably about 18. That's 2000. Yeah. 2003 20 years ago 20 years ago yeah how does it feel talking about that does it bring back a lot of emotion yeah it does you know it does and especially the way you've asked these questions as well it's different from what everyone else has asked me so yeah it does bring it back up man and like I said to you man there's probably certain things I would say to you you know what I mean differently you know what I mean over a drink you know what I mean but yeah bro fucking hell It's mad, it's mad, man.

53:40But I don't know, still, I always live in my head thinking, fuck, you know, man. You know what I mean? It was a major changing point in my life. You know what I mean? Why did it have to happen to me? You know what I mean? But everyone's got their destiny, innit? Everyone's got their path, they have to live, innit? And I reckon that was part of my path, man. Maybe, you know what I mean? to help somebody and to make that sacrifice, you know what I mean? To help somebody, you know what I mean? And give up a big chunk of my life, you know what I mean? Does it replay in your mind or nightmares or think about it?

54:20Yeah, yeah, it does. It does sometimes, you know, flashbacks and stuff like that. Screams, anything? No, not screams or anything like that. It's more the violence that was happening that night. and you know when people say things and when i hear certain lyrics in certain songs or i see certain things i'm like it's too close to what you know i mean i went through and stuff like that you know yeah when people make up songs and say stuff about baseball bats and this and that i'm thinking you know man it's mad like something like i don't even want to hear that like yeah it's mad you know Did you ever go and see your therapist or anything?

55:04No, you know what? None of that was ever offered to me after, you know? You know, like, that's it, you're done, you're sent us, get out, and that's it. You just got to go and sign into probation and they're fucking dribbling to send you back to jail if you put one foot wrong. You know what I mean? Re-equal your ass quicker than they can say fucking re-equal, but yeah, man, it's... Real value shows up in reliability. You don't have to second guess. like a set of Firestone all-season tires. They're designed to deliver confidence-inspiring wet weather traction and a quieter ride, no matter the road, season after season.

55:40Firestone all-season tires. For durability, you can count on. Just like people count on you. Firestone, always dependable since 1900. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. In the U.S., there's a break in every 26 seconds.

56:25But when intruders step near, SimpliSafe Home Security steps up. Stop. This is SimpliSafe. Police are on the way. Using AI alerts, U.S.-based live agents help deter break-ins. SimpliSafe, no long-term contracts. Save 50 % on your new system with professional monitoring at simplisafe.com slash Spotify or with promo code Spotify. Outdoor deterrence requires a SimpliSafe Active Guard outdoor protection plan starting at$49.99 a month. Visit simplisafe.com slash licenses for alarm license information. Tennessee 2012. Yeah, smart. How do you move on with your life now, after doing a lifer? Do you think you can repair it, or do you still struggle?

57:05I believe I can make a success of my life, you know, because I spent so much time in there on my music, writing my music, writing my lyrics, so I rap, you know, and you can find all my music on, just type in my name, O-F-I-L-L, on all the platforms or whatever, you can see. you know what I mean, my stuff and what I've been doing. And, you know, I've done a project lately with one of the members of the Fanatics. His name's Masterpiece, you know. He's done a lot of songs for people who are known in the industry. And I'm just blessed that I got an opportunity, you know what I mean, to work with him.

57:42And my other friends that are in the music industry, you know, and yeah, man, I'm just pushing, pushing and pushing until I make a success of myself, whether it's, I don't know, through the music or through, you know what I mean, labouring or doing something else or I have to go back to university, you know what I mean? And start up a new course or career or a trade or something like that. I'm just that person that's determined to win. I don't want to fail. Because you're working now, eh? Yeah, yeah, scaffolding. How hard was it to get a job? Fucking hell. It was hard, man. It was hard. I was on the universal credit for a long time, you know what I mean?

58:20and they kept trying to set me up with interviews and stuff like that, but no one get back to me. So the only places that would have somebody like me is construction sites. But then you're going for an agency and stuff like that. You know what I mean? And getting a UTR number and the 20 % tax and all this mad type of stuff that I didn't even know about. You know what I mean? So then you realize, wow, what the agency's taking and what I'm working for. You know what I mean? It's better I work straight for the company and stuff like that. So I'm trying to still find my way through to that, you know?

58:51But scaffolding is a bit more my thing because you can, you know what I mean? Earn certain cards or get certain cards and then, you know, your money goes up. Are you still out and licensed or is that over? Yeah, no, my license is for life, but apparently my probation worker is saying that they have reviews. And obviously on these reviews, they can opt to suspend your license, you know, if you're doing well and stuff like that, which I am right now. So, yeah. How hard is that, knowing if you put a foot wrong, you could be doing a lifer again? It's fucked, man. It's fucked. It's like I'm under threat.

59:25I feel like, you know what I mean? They're just waiting for me to put a foot wrong sometimes. You know what I mean? Like, what if I miss an appointment or something like that? Or, you know what I mean? Like, how come you lot can just chuck me back in there so easy and then it's going to take so long to get back out? It's out of order, man. I don't like it. I don't like it at all. I can't wait to get rid of this fucking thing hanging over my head, man. It's like a dark cloud. Yeah, does that make you kind of, not hold back in life, but just be very sceptical who you speak to, what you do? Yeah.

59:55Because one phone call to say he's doing this or doing that, man, you're fucked off. I see it, yeah. I've had guys' friends doing two or three years because girl friends or friends or somebody's said that they've carried a gun or they've done this and they ain't done fuck all. Breach of the peace, man. Yeah. Just finishing two or three years off. Yeah, yeah, it does make me feel like that. I'm very selective with who I talk to. You know what I mean? Sometimes it makes me feel like I can't be myself with people and open and have as much fun as I could be having. I've got to be reserved because I've got this thing hanging over my head and I'm thinking, why should I feel like that?

1:00:25It made me feel, you know what I mean? You're still in prison? Yeah, like I'm still in prison and I'm a bad person. That's how probation makes me feel like, hey, you know, like I'm a bad person. You know what I mean? Like I'm a threat to society. They've got me down as high risk to the public. I'm a high risk to the public. then I just save some public members from getting raped, but I'm a high risk to the public, you know? So you have to protect the public from me. Isn't it me protecting the public? I don't know, but the way they look at it, it's kind of fucked, innit? So that's how they make me feel, innit?

1:00:57Like, I'm a friend. Do you think about how racism kicks into play? Did you ever feel working through, co-working through the system? Or is that...? No, I don't think so, because it was a black man, innit? That died, that was the rapist. So I don't think it's the racism, but I think there is racism within the MAPA. You see, they've got a thing called MAPA and then you've got like the parole board and you've got the probation service, the National Probation Service. I think there's institutionalized racism within that that comes out onto us, the clients. And I mean, the service users, they call us now.

1:01:29It comes out in little bits and pieces. You know what I mean? They'll try and act like they're giving you something, something decent like, oh yeah, yeah, hope you're getting on well. We're nowhere here to help you. But you know, in the other hand, And they just got, you know what I mean? That big dagger there waiting to stab you at any given time, you know what I mean? And sometimes they do things like that behind your back, they'll write reports and put things in there that you didn't even expect to see because it's a probation officer giving their opinion on what they think's going through your head.

1:02:00Opinion. It's not a fact, it's just their opinion. You know? And then you just have to accept it because if you don't, it's like you're challenging, isn't it? And then it's like, oh, well, you're not, ready for society yet. You're not conforming, are you? We're telling you to do this. We're giving our professional opinions and you have to go along with it. If you challenge it, then obviously there's some problem then and you're a menace to society or you're, you know, high risk. So you're talking about you do rap now. So working people, you've said you can get your music, but we've got a new song or something coming out.

1:02:32Yeah, I've got a new song called Straight Out The Bottle coming out. Like I said, I've done it with a masterpiece from the Fanatics and shout out to my friend Bez for the hookup, our mutual friend. You can get all my other music on YouTube, all the other platforms, Spotify, Apple, everything. Just type in O-F-I-L-L and it will come up. You will get me. You'll see all my music and all my stuff. What about your YouTube channel? Yeah, the YouTube channel is the same thing. Just O-F-I-L-L and it will bring you to my page. and yeah, you can see what I've done so far. So far I've got, I think three videos on there.

1:03:13So this straight out of the bottle one's going to be the fourth. And I believe this song here, this is the one, this is the one that's going to go off, man. This is the one that people can party to forever really, you know, like when we're gone, our children's children's children must still be partying to this one. Trust me. Yeah, I hope it works out. What's your plans with the future then? Just press on with the music, try and be successful, try and work with some charities in my community, you know, like for the young youth, all this young knife crime and all this madness, the gang stuff that's going on.

1:03:47I want to try and get involved in my community, man, and other communities and other projects and stuff like that. And hopefully my influence, you know what I mean, on the younger generation, can, you know what I mean, bring some positivity, you know what I mean? And apart from that, you know, just be successful with my music, try and build myself an independent business or something like that. I don't even know, I might even try and go into some sort of something like yourself doing, you know? Talking, mate. Yeah, talking. Because I like talking to people. I've had to do it for a long time. You know, I can get on with most people for most walks of life, you know?

1:04:20Like, I've met a lot of different personalities that I can get on with. And, you know, I don't mind talking, you know what I mean? And giving advice. I'm a good listener as well to people as well, you know? So, yeah. Yeah, the future's bright. Good, brother. What was the worst prison you were in? It's gotta be full Sutton. How come? In Yorkshire. Just for the fact I went from Dovegate, which was a decent, I think it's half B cat, half C cat. And then I went from the TC. So it's like, yeah, the en suite shower in your cell. It's, you can be out all the time. It's kind of comfy to double A cat. you know like and then you can't get out of there until you've done like a year and a half and then obviously in there it's just a different level of um living to other prisons because there you see some real shit you know i mean that you hear about and see in movies you know you see people's face getting burnt off with oil and and hot water and people getting stabbed cells getting and burnt out.

1:05:26You see all sorts of men hanging there self and you know what I mean? And in there, it can even come to you. I had a little drama in there with somebody trying to poke my eye at somebody from Birmingham and this was just so, it started over music, believe it or not, you know what I mean? And then, I don't know, people just get serious in there, man, you know what I mean? What's it like to see that when people get fucking hot water, sugar thrown in their face, people get stabbed? It's mad, it fucks with your psychology because you think to yourself automatically, right, but that's not happening to me.

1:05:57So what do I have to do to make sure that don't happen to me? So I don't want to become a recluse and stay in my soul all the time. I'm not that type of person. I'm not staying in my soul like I'm scared to come out, but I have to be more careful of who I talk to and who I banter with, because that's how it starts off in there. And I can start off with a simple banter. And there's a man who's not in the mood today. He says, shut up. Don't talk to me like that, man, you dickhead. and then the next man's not a dickhead. Next man says, suck your mother. Are you talking to you, puss? The man's like, what?

1:06:29That's it. Just simple as that. People being in the wrong mood. Oh, a man playing his music too loud at nighttime. A man banged the wall. Boom, boom, boom. Hey, turn it down. I'm trying to fucking sleep. Shut up. All right, I'll see you in the morning. In the morning, doors open. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. It's going off. Yeah, simple as that. And then obviously you've got people that have got their road beefs. And then it ends up in the J because they're in the same wing of each other. Then you've got the gangs. You get me at the Burgers, the Johnnies up there. Who are they? Burger Bar and Johnson gangs from Birmingham.

1:07:07Tough lot, they're back in Birmingham. They're tough bastards, man. Yeah, you've got Nottingham gangs up there as well. Best Will This Day and other people. Waterfront and stuff like that. And then you've got the people from London. Tottenham Hackney North West East London you know it goes off in there man you know what I mean Manchester Gooch Dunnington and stuff like that and yeah some real shit in there that's where the real bad boys are Did you lose any friends to suicide in there yourself? You know what Wayland the Joe I got out from in 2020 my next door tried to hang yourself

1:07:49but he was a troubled soul and he was on a bit of what he calls spice but when he was offered a spice he was a nice brother and that he's a decent somebody to talk to and he was only in there for something stupid you know I mean but the drugs had him in a way and then he was that type of guy he would get really lippy with the screws and they just try and put him behind his door as quick as possible but he's self-harm you know you straight away you can see a minute the cuts all down their wrists and stuff like that you know i mean even someone his neck and stuff like that so

1:08:26um everyone on the ring got on with him he's that type of guy be like oh do you need any favors and well i'll do that and that for you know he's the type of guy you give a burn to all the time yeah nice one come on man i got you man he's a cool guy you know i mean he looked after himself you You know what I mean? He wasn't one of them people, you're like, oh, you smoke spice and you're a tramp or something like that. He was a decent boy, but he had his little vice, you know what I mean? And he used to ask the screws to let him out to clean. And some of the screws, the SOs and that, they would let him out and then other screws wouldn't let him out, but he needed to come out, otherwise he would start trying to fucking arm himself in there.

1:09:01So, you know, it's certain screws that were just like seeing people in stress and in depression and willing to hurt themselves. And in Wayland, it was evil that they just left him and he saw pure times and he kept saying, I'm going to cut myself, I'm going to do this and that. And he actually started cutting himself up and then we tried to talk to him. And then another day he tried to hang himself. But the same screw that didn't want to let him out, she's come, opened his door, took out her cut down knife, tried to cut him down off of his ligature, but her cut down knife's not working because she's probably been using it for other things like cutting boxes or whatever, blah, blah, blah.

1:09:38They're never supposed to use their cut down ice for anything else because they're supposed to use it once for that one time where that ligature, you know what I mean, might be so tough it could be made out of the bedding or whatever, you know what I mean? Jeans material. It's got to go through with no hesitation and she's there soaring at it. It's not doing nothing. I've shot him up. I've gone in there, haven't I? And I'm trying to hold his legs up and my mate's trying to hold his fucking legs up and he's gone to the screw. Give me the fucking knife. Took it off of her and just put his strength to it and that's it.

1:10:05popped him down and that fucking that ruined my head man I thought fuck man Scary that Yeah it's scary man you know what I mean seeing people that you know you know what I mean are friendly with you know what I mean trying to kill themselves just because they can't come out of their soul and clean that some people do have it hard in there man you know yeah seen some shit man How did you end up on Lad Bible? Lad Bible I did Delinquent Nation shout out to SP for that and from Delinquent Nation I think they noticed me from there and then they asked me to come on and I was like yeah why not I saw their thing I was like yeah why not man It's good for a promotion It's a mad story like any man in that position if they want to see that or hear that your first instance I'm going to kill that bastard because that's the worst thing ever is to for any man to abuse a woman or a kid in your mind for me it's the worst of the worst like there's no going back from that so for you to take that man's life like that like I said it's that I don't really condone violence but for somebody to do that a serial fucking beast like for me it's okay man like these people should be fucking hung these people should be if they're going to bring back killings and hangings these are the because you get a 12 but yeah there's people out there who rape kids that get 2 and 3 years exactly they're the justice exactly they're the fucking justice exactly you know what I mean so how do you move forward from it although and kind of move on get your music out there and just try and live the rest of your life as happy as you can be is it difficult or do you get a lot of big plans yeah because obviously I think right now my plans are bigger than my pocket so obviously when my pocket can level up to my plans then I'm good to go but it's not all about the money though man for me I think it's just more about the determination you know just keep going at going at it going at it what I'm trying to do, you know, get my music out there and eventually it will happen, innit?

1:12:06People say to me, trust the process. So that's what I'm doing. I'm trying to trust the process right now and the process so far has brought me to yours. You know what I mean? Life is good, brother. Come on, man. For anybody that's watching, bro, for anybody that's in prison or trying to be a bad man, like you weren't a bad man, like you just got caught on some shit where you've got a life sentence, but what advice would you give for anybody? Um, just stay strong, focus, you know what I mean? if you know you've got your date to come out, that's your date to come out. Don't let no one or anything, you know what I mean?

1:12:38Fuck up your head and take you off of your path to go home. Just do what you got to do. Stay focused, yeah. Educate yourself while you're in there. Go gym, do what you can do. Yeah, don't be a waste, man. You get me? Come out and make something of yourself. Life is nice out there. And there's things that can happen that people will tell you, nah, that's hard, that's hard, it'll take forever. don't believe anyone's got to say, try it out for yourself. Yeah. Your own thing. Would you like to finish up on anything else, brother? Yeah. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast.

1:13:14Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode, available on Plus and Pro plans. In the U.S., there's a break-in every 26 seconds. But when intruders step near, SimpliSafe Home Security steps up. Stop. This is SimpliSafe. Police are on the way. Using AI alerts, U.S.-based live agents help deter break-ins. SimpliSafe, no long-term contracts.

1:13:55Save 50 % on your new system with professional monitoring at simplisafe.com slash spotify or with promo code spotify. Outdoor deterrence requires a SimpliSafe Active Guard outdoor protection plan starting at$49.99 a month. Visit simplisafe.com slash licenses for alarm license information. Tennessee 2012. And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Let's draw something loose. Ay, yes! I like that. The Certified Fresh Series returns. Your boss. You always like this? Or is this just an act? Oh no, this is mad. Oysters, everybody!

1:14:28There is a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig!

1:14:37This show gives me a reason to laugh. You can get me at OFILL, all platforms. Shout out to my friend Yacht Life, shout out to MMT, shout out to Masterpiece and everyone that's worked with me so far. Six Degree Studios thank you James for having me on and yeah that's me Ophil the Defender I'm out here watch out Ophil listen God bless you brother all right thank you all the best for the future good luck with your music respect love all right