My Husband of 16 years Was Drugging & Raping Me - Zoe Watts Tells Her Story

41:56He was one of these people that would be online all the time, tapping away, you know, have I got bipolar? Let me do this quiz. Have I got schizophrenia? Let me do this quiz. And that was also very different from his other family members and why he described himself as a black sheep. He always said there's something not quite right. And I think his mum had said that it was very similar to one of his uncles who had poor mental health and that he was just like his uncle. So at no point did anybody at any time say, Zoe, technically you're experiencing domestic abuse. It was all kind of like, oh, you know, you're standing by him like he had diabetes or cancer.

42:35It was like, oh, you know, you're being a good wife and standing by him. Did you ever meet that uncle? No. Was there any backstory towards your ex-husband's sort of upbringing? No, I don't think so, no. I mean he was German, German based. Not making excuses for him, but could he have been abused as a kid? Because a lot of people who are abused, I think one third become abusers himself. Yeah, I don't think so. I mean his dad moved to Germany when he was quite young. It was his stepdad. I mean I would have thought he would have come out and said something, you know, and pointed the finger, you know, to push the responsibility somewhere else, but he didn't.

43:15I couldn't imagine his mum, you know, in that respect, they seemed lovely people. So I couldn't say that anything to do with his upbringing would have attributed him to that. He always described himself as the black sheep. From what I saw, I don't think there was any favour to them. I don't think that he was the black sheep. I just think he felt the black sheep. It's because of his what mind though, it's because he's demonic, you know, the things that he probably thought about he's that you know he's a devil basically and he's just bottling that up feeling sorry for himself because of the way he thought but what about did he watch porn or anything um i know he did i didn't know at the time but i know that that got fall has never looked or tasted this good sweet greens fall harvest menu is back with seasonal favorites dressed to impress and made to be devoured.

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45:44Some of them I wasn't even sure on. You know, I know the usual names, you know, that people fling around from articles like today, like Pornhub and Motherless and stuff. But I went through it with a friend and put lots of blocks on the computer for any of these illicit sites and loads came up. So I always wondered what he did on my photos and videos and he'd never tell me. So it is a concern of mine that I'm out there somewhere. But again... When people who are porn addicts, they're struggling. The more porn you watch, the more depressed you are. And if you're watching all these sites, and I'll keep promoting it, it's all incest and pedophilia.

46:23It's schoolgirls and stepsisters and stepfathers. it's dark so it's normalizing things that shouldn't be normalized and if you're addicted to it is this where they're getting these crazy ideas and crazy thoughts by watching these porn sites because over 80 percent of porn is abuse yeah yeah so if you're watching that you're basically watching people getting abused so you're normalizing that madness but yeah i think that um it can dehumanize somebody looking at porn it can dehumanize it and to know that that's how you're and your gratification with watching that level of violence. I didn't go down that rabbit hole because it was something that would just make me feel a bit sick.

47:02So I don't know necessarily what it was he was watching. But I know he had a lot of links to a lot of things and, you know, profiles and whatnot. And, you know, I left that to a dear friend to just sort of block. But I was surprised. I was surprised at how many. Um, but I guess if at that point I wasn't aware that he was projecting it onto me. Did he have any more victims? Could there be anyone else come forward? So far there hasn't been. He never spent a night away from home. Um, so I can't imagine there being any. and also I mean he got the medication very easily I don't know you know if it was a partner before me where he would have got that medication from.

47:55What about the doctors I know telltale signs that you're going through a bit more of like these drugs than than usual surely there must have been are they just taking the money as well because I don't believe in the pharmaceutical industry anyway but surely there must have been sent unless he was buying them on the dark web as well but Surely there have been signs from the doctor that he was using more, or was it just an old prescription that you were getting yourself? I don't know, because sometimes he was in charge of the prescriptions. I don't know if he was getting any of them from the internet as well.

48:26I'm not sure. I really left that to the police. I think at the time, I was just getting my head around the fact that what he was doing to me was a crime. So, I kind of gave the police my medical records to my son's, and they went to court to get his medical records. And, um, you know, I turned up for my day in court to do my statementing. Um, I didn't turn up for his. I didn't want to hear any more of that ridiculous narrative. So, there was a lot of it at the time that I was very, um, unaware of. But grateful to them, very grateful to them. And your son was diagnosed where he got those tablets?

49:11He never took them there and kind of made up stories for me. No, he was diagnosed. It just seems a bit caught, it just seems a bit of perfect timing for him to get those tablets as well. Maybe that's something he's researched how to get those tablets. If you go to the doctors and tell them a certain story, they're just going to give you any tablet anyway. Yeah, possibly. But you know, being his mother, it has and always, hopefully not. but has always been something that he struggled with. But we were dealing with that at the time, and that was another reason why I was, you know, so tired, you know, you know, trying to get the help and support in from my son as well.

49:50It took up a lot of my emotional and physical reserve. So I think, I think he just saw it as an opportunity. Some of the things that you said are kind of like making things click to me, like the dark sheep of the family. Where did he get that from? Yes, he got that from his own perception of what was going on in his head. And I think a minute ago when you just mentioned, um, um, about, you know, the medication being convenient. One of the things he said was, was that I wanted him to do that to me. I wanted to wake up to find him having sex with me. so I just wonder if maybe that was the sort of stuff that he was watching and then tried to replicate and then it was easy enough for him to do because like what if she wanted you to do that then why are we I mean this is ridiculous but he had convinced himself and other people that I wanted to wake up to find him having sex with me in which case and if that's your bag well we would carried on.

50:59You know, we wouldn't have needed to have, you know, you know, got to this stage. But I just wonder if that was some of the stuff that he was watching and then got a bit messed up with and replicated. So you're sitting at night having a cup of tea, a couple of drinks. Would you be unconscious in the living room where we had to carry you to bed? Like, did they come clean of the steps that he would do? No. I've no idea. None at all. did you ever wake up outside of bed no no I mean I woke up on the sofa yeah I've worked on the sofa and woke up in bed um but I think I don't remember I don't remember waking up in the morning and thinking oh my god how did I get here at times I woke up on the sofa I thought oh I must have just fallen asleep on the sofa it's a pretty large stretch to think I must have woken up on the sofa because my husband's raped me you just don't it's not even in your vocabulary you just don't think it you don't think it you don't say it it's not why would they do that when they have access not all the time but when they could just say hey you know babe do you feel like it tonight you know why why go to that lens I think it's one of those things that he was feeling inadequate and it gave him a sense of dominance because I don't understand I just don't understand but dark mind and demonic minds nobody can understand them only those people do and I've interviewed so many people where they are fucking nuts and you think who's been through hardship and hard times there's nothing you can put in place there's no excuses there's nothing that they can do whether it's a sense of power or whatever it is it's just wrong on so many levels it's demonic and I'll go I love my sleep but I can sit on the couch now before you know I've woke up two hours later and you wake up in the fucking days so you're not thinking yeah whatever's happened there's no day in my house but you just wake up and you're shattered yeah so it's understandable you never really questioned it yeah and I was on um quite heavy migraine medication at the time I really did suffer with migraines and that was another thing that I just thought god the cheek of that I mean he never bothered to check whether the medications he was giving me was safe with my and they themselves cause, you know, tiredness, which is why I took them at night.

53:25How frequently was this, that he would do this? I don't know. I think the judge just did it in blocks of years. And, um, I think, I don't know. I mean, it's one of those things that I'd have to break down, and I don't often think to do it, but I'd have to break down the steps. Like, I didn't, I didn't realize till, you know, the investigation, this new one that the, you know, reporters did that he must have checked that I was asleep. He must have checked that I was out cold before he did it. How did he do that? You know? And I'm looking now at this whole, you know, the eye check that they do. It might not have been the eye check then.

54:09It might have been something else, but I never really thought about what he must have done to make sure that I was asleep like did he shake me did he poke me like I just don't understand what he would have done because I think he would have probably built up confidence over time well I'm sure he built up confidence over time yeah he would have had his own steps what to do how to do it and how long would you be out for well I can just presume it would be the night and then you wake up kind of dazed yeah yeah and how old were your four kids at this time um probably um i think probably in between my last one and now so they ranged in 22 and 15 so when my first one was born i would when my last one was born in about 2010 i think it was already happening would have been happening in a couple of years so they would have been i don't know six seven eight nine what about the migraines when did they start um probably you know around about as hard as my second child.

55:15Could that have been the drugs as well? The kind of come down? Yeah, very possibly. Yeah, very possibly. So he's confessed, you've told your sister, you've went to the police, what's the procedure then? What's the police saying? Did they automatically believe you? And go, yep, this is... Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have eczema. So I get how it can steal your time. But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about EBCLIS. EBCLIS Lubrikizumab LBKZ, a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema.

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56:26Or call 1-800-LILLY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. Yeah. Nuts. And did he confess to the police? Hmm. Wow. I was trying to be a smart ass about it. He sort of did. that first night, but it was unable to be used in court. Why? I think because it was before he had his rights read to him or something. Because he broke into the house, he went on the run, and then broke into the house. And this was something that really annoyed me that didn't get picked up. When he broke in, he climbed around the side of the house, went into a bedroom, went into an en suite bathroom, and hid in the back of a cupboard. And he had, like, a large pair of scissors, a Stanley knife, a Phillips screwdriver and a torch.

57:16And my dog was going crazy about two in the morning. And we went down, had a bit of a look. The house was over four stories. And couldn't see anything. But the dog just wouldn't settle. So we went down again. I should say my friend this time went round again. She went to the bottom of the stairs. And he came out of this cupboard and started smacking her through the corridors to get her upstairs and got me in the bedroom. By that point, I dialed 999 and just threw the phone down. And he said, what do you think I'm gonna do? Rape you again? I was like, but these sorts of things, they just couldn't be used.

57:50So the police came, he had me in the bedroom, the police arrived with me and him in the bedroom. And then he threw out all this stuff. And I remember saying to him, what the hell were you gonna do with that? Like, why are you coming in here when your kids are upstairs and I'm here? with a Stanley blade and scissors and God knows what else. I guess that would have been a lesser crime than the intent, which is what got the most sentence. But it did bother me that that didn't get picked up on, that they didn't say, hang on, what are you doing breaking in and walking around with all this stuff? Yeah, but he's got the victim mentality.

58:30He could have been there to kill you. Yeah. And then blame you. Yeah. Yeah. You know, his mind is gone. He's not a nice, he's evil. So you don't know what methods he has with a pair of scissors and a Stanley. He could have been there to kill you. Why did they have that? I don't know. I don't know. But it has bothered me that that never got, you know, followed up. But again, it's resources, and I guess they're going to go for the thing that's got the longest sentence. Why not follow up? Because those tools were already in your household? And did they ever threaten you with them? No, they were in his pocket.

59:08He would have gone out and bought them, probably at the local garage or when he was up at work. I think it was our work scissors. Yeah, that's questionable. How long did it take for him to get charged? Oh, I'm not sure. I think because I needed a bit of time afterwards. I had time and spoke to a few people and then I agreed to prosecute a couple of months later. And I know people have said to me, why don't you do it at the time? Like there and then that night. But we also, we had the children and I was trying to understand what that would mean for them, you know, and reputation wise. And we had our business.

59:52So if our business fell through, we couldn't eat. It was massive. And the police gave me the option, you know, what did I want to do? And then I ended up in hospital with kidney stones and needed surgery. So by the time all of that was sorted out, it was a couple of months later, that I then... He changed the very end part of the marriage. I went to my mum and dad, because he was just not being very nice. And we were at my parents, and I was sort of snuggled down by a radiator. And my dad sort of looked at him and stopped him in his tracks of talking to me. because at this point after 16 17 odd years of being together he felt very confident to start talking to me like rubbish in front of my parents and my dad said this to someone in your eyes he said at that moment that wasn't the man that i'd known that you'd been married to he said there was something different so from that time to the time of the arrest and shortly after the gloves came off it was like the shield dropped who he thought who we thought he was and this persona just lovable kev everybody's friend great husband it's like he wasn't carrying that around anymore he was in his true self because he's been caught yeah so the mask is off yeah he'd always been that person he's not grew into that person he's been that person as a kid you'll tend to see a lot of these mass murderers and school shooters play that victim mentality they're quite lonely and then they do the mad shit and they blame everybody else his mask he was already that person before he'd met you so he put up that charade to get away with all his madness this is i'm not a fucking psychologist but as soon as the mask slipped he's been caught it's like when the police have interviewed police if they catch a murderer the people who don't do it stay awake but the people who do do it fall asleep when they're in the cells because they think the ghost is up the court so they end up relaxing more so his mask has slipped he's been caught and they thought fuck it i'll show you my true colors yeah there's nothing to hide anymore yeah i think that does make sense because that victim mentality it ran throughout the relationship as i said we you know that he he go and do something silly or hurtful and blame it on mental health and who'd take this new medication that would stop him from acting that way.

1:02:22And then he'd stop taking the medication because he thought he'd feel better. And then he'd start taking it again so he wouldn't do it again. And it was always, you know, that was the consistent that I now recognize as a red flag. Before, I thought I was being a supportive wife. But now it was that he used these illnesses as an excuse for poor behavior towards me. When did he start taking the tablets himself? Or else could it have started when he started taking his own medication? When things got darker? Well it was within three weeks of his dad dying. I can remember... I can remember one evening that he was really aggressive to me down an alleyway.

1:03:07And I remember talking to his parents about it, or his brother, one of the two. And I said this is what he's done to me. I wasn't black and blue, but he had, like, smashed me down this alleyway and I was 17. So I spoke to his parents about it, his brother, I think it was both of them. And, um, they said, did he drink Jack Daniels? and I said what? they said did he drink Jack Daniels? they said well yeah as it goes he did they said oh yeah that doesn't agree with him if he ever has a Jack Daniels he'll be an asshole on it so I was 17 not really au fait with drinking God knows what and having this sort of a relationship but it was almost like that set the precedent that set the tone of the relationship so it was I'm so sorry I shouldn't have drunk Jack Daniels it really doesn't agree with me I'm never going to do it again.

1:04:00But the next time he'd drink Jack Daniels, and be horrid to me, go, oh, I can't believe it. Somebody bought me a Jack Daniels. And it was almost like he started to set these little things in motion. But he was very, very clever. He would admit to people that he'd do something wrong, but under the disguise of, I don't know why I didn't. I don't know why. I didn't want to do it. I'm going to go and get help. So I'm going to tell my doctor that I've done it. Doctor, I've gone and done this, but I don't want to do it. Can you give me a tablet? Yeah, we'll give you a tablet. That will stop you from doing it.

1:04:34So he always, to a point, took responsibility for that type of behavior that he showed towards me, which looking back now was domestic abuse. But at the time, it was very outward domestic abuse. A lot of people knew. A lot of people knew that he was behaving this way, medical professionals and otherwise. And that, you know, nobody ever said, so, like, you are aware of this. You are sure that this is going on. So he was very clever. And I think that one of the reasons why he told me was that it was that next stage of him taking a bit of responsibility because he, that was it. I don't want to do it.

1:05:18I don't know why I'm doing it. I don't know why I'm drugging you. This isn't me. I'm going to go and get help. I'm so sorry I never would have done it you know he followed that exact same pattern throughout the relationship when he came forward with this disclosure and I think all the other ones he was working his way up to it and I just don't know where it would have ended probably my death yeah definitely so he's admitting his faults and making out he's going to get help for that yeah so you're backing him and supporting him as a good wife yeah but we spoke about red flags at the start that's the red flag at the start of 17 but because he's admitting that his family his mum and dad are complicit as well they're part of the fucking problem by agreeing by making excuses for him you know somebody who's like shouldn't be fucking drinking instead of what's the jack daniels it's alcohol and then it's the fact of i'm going to get changed i'm going to make changes i'm sorry i'll admit it and you're you're accepting to it as well which also would have been part of the problem because he always knew you would come back round he always knew he could fool you with Once it came out, we had a few therapy sessions, because at this point, I didn't understand that I was being raped.

1:06:29And again, we go back to, it was only 1990 in the UK that rape was illegal between husband and wife. But I wasn't coping, and I said, I've got to go into therapy. I didn't know why I wasn't coping, but at that point, I recognized in my life I wasn't coping. And we saw this counsellor, and I can remember, I said, look, I just, this is what he's just confessed to. I'm really struggling. I don't understand. I need you to help me process. He's saying that he needs to get help. Can you help break down what's going on? And I remember he sat there in this session, and he put his head in his hand, and he sat forward, and he was rocking.

1:07:10And she sort of said, look, you need to stop. he he is in pain he can't process this you know we know she she did not give an absolute shit about the fads of what he had done to me she stopped me talking about what he'd done to me because he was in crisis and he just needed time but again all it did was validate to me that all this stuff that he had come out with wasn't a problem. I'm not the one that needed help. He was. When I was hurt, it wasn't me that needed help. He did. It had been years of systematic, you know, people failing me to got to that point. So when people say, well, why didn't you, why weren't you outraged?

1:08:00Well, because I was conditionalized at that point. Too many people knew and they didn't say, do you know what, this is a real safeguarding concern. We need to get you out of there. How long did the court case last? It was five days. And did you find out any more information in that court case that you didn't know? Yes, I did. Um, one, I understood more what he, his mindset in terms of this elaborate ploy, and I'd realized that this is why the people around him were so supportive of him and not me. I mean, I don't class myself as a stupid person, but I was definitely taken in with him. I mean, I live with him.

1:08:47I mean, I had no idea. So I think these other people around him got easily suckered in. Um, although I don't know if they ever even questioned why. I understood that he had used equipment on me to restrain me where I didn't think that that was something that he had used but I understood that that was what happened afterwards What sort of equipment? Something to tie me up with like arms and legs, I don't really know Did you look at his fucking, can he sound? did he get fucking did he get like sort of reports done psychiatric reports because that's a psychopath that's i don't think so that's a monster that's someone who is capable of killing yeah yeah no i don't i don't think so could he potentially try to kill you at any time he strangled me a few times and again i think he did some weird things like i'd wake up to find a pillow over my face um and he was on the pillow but again it was oh my god i can't believe i've done this i'm so sorry i'm gonna go to the doctor so it's just like relentless you know do you also question your own sanity of kind of believing everything that he says and willing to make changes or did you just do it for you it's it's difficult if you're married you've got kids i understand that but the levels that he went to do you question your own madness well that's the thing.

1:10:21I didn't realize the levels he went to because I wasn't hiding everything. Not everything. There was always a level of disclosure and I didn't have people around me saying, you know, holy crap, Zoe, this is not okay. So it teaches you that that's a level of normalcy. I now look back and I'm I'm very disconnected that's that and inappropriate laughter is a coping mechanism for me it's listen I'm saying I had the most horror stories and I have a giggle but it's because I'm nervous it's because I think that's how I deal shit it's not that I'm being a prick I'm just I think fucking that's scary and I'll have a little giggle but it's not that I'm No, I totally get you.

1:11:12But I think the disassociation from what was happening to me at the time, that was ingrained at me from 17. I remember when he hit me once, and we spoke to some family members about it. They said, well, you two just shouldn't row. It wasn't a, he's hit you, like, that's not okay, what the hell are you doing? It was, I was complicit too in it. and I think if we can start understanding that you know people people don't choose to very rarely do people choose to be in a situation like that you are conditioned and I was conditioned at a very early age and there were people around me at the time that that supported that level of conditioning and I don't want to call call names or call anybody out but there were some people around that could see at times that the gloves were coming off and...

1:12:07Do you become desensitized to it all then? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And don't forget, it wasn't about me. This poor man was on a quest to get well. He just wanted to live a nice quiet life with his wife and his children. There was a level of responsibility that meant that, well, I didn't have to hide, I didn't have to hide this crazy thing that he did. If I was in a situation where I hid everything, you know, then I think my processing would be different because I consciously know I was hiding things. That wasn't always the case. There was a level of reality that people were understanding at the time.

1:12:49But we were known as this team, this power couple, you know, Kevin and Zoe and even within the churches, Kevin and Zoe, Kevin and Zoe, you know. and it was I had to figure out who the hell I was after there was no Kevin it was very strange when did he start going to church um I would say 2007 2008 could that have been when things started because he seems to be the man as well we didn't call him a man but when he does stuff he tries to get forgiveness yeah yeah I wondered actually um that's what I'm picking up on every time he does something weirdly he does confess but again that could be some weird kink by telling people what they're doing but every time he confesses maybe that was the start of it when he started doing more darker stuff that he started going to church whose idea was it to go well i kind of think it was both of us i mean i've never been raised in that environment um after having the children we sort of met some people that were in and around the church circle lovely people um but i think in hindsight he used that as the whole premise of we're all sinful no one's perfect take your problems to the foot of the cross and gain forgiveness you know do a 180 on your behavior and you'll kind of get in and i think that that attitude definitely enabled his sick ways to grow, you know, and there would be, you know, this new prayer and this new miracle because God can perform miracles.

1:14:27So he will do on him as well, you know, and I think that that definitely things started to change because there was, there was another course that he could do. There was another awakening. There was another prayer. Um, and I think that helped him. Yeah. To forgive his sins and then he can go and do that mad shit and then go back and feel as if he's got a clean slate but clearly it's ate away at him clearly it's destroyed him mentally where it's just went darker and darker and darker hopefully so when you're going down the court route after five days it must have been a straight guilty then yeah he did did you know this um yeah the jury came in I think later that afternoon um and they yeah what did I learn they said to me just going back to one of the other questions I got questioned about everything from my sex life to why I stayed for that short period of time afterwards, why I didn't initially, you know, bang that button.

1:15:27And, um, I remember his barrister grilling me on that. Surely if this was, you know, if that's what he was doing and you didn't want it, you know, you would have come out straight away if this horrible thing had happened, you know, just enough to make you feel shit enough. And I remember saying, but I loved him. You know, why did you say, because I loved him? And apparently that, for me, I feel like that's a really pathetic answer. Because I loved him. It's true. But I feel like I was that pathetic. However, they said that that's what you could tell the jury changed at that point. You know, they could see the innocence of me against what he was putting forward.

1:16:12You know, I think you've got to get to such a low to put yourself so low down that pecking order to just say, but I loved him. You know, it's a different type of love at that point. And did it come out about him videoing, taking photos of you? Was he asked the question what he was doing with this sort of footage? I'm not sure whether he was asked, but he admitted to doing it. And again, he used that. So, when he told me that he had taken videos and photographs of me, it was to my benefit. So he said that, you know, he'd already had an affair. He's taking the videos and photographs of me, so that he could masturbate to me and not look at other women.

1:17:02And that's what you'd want, isn't it? You don't want me to look at other women on the internet, you want me to just look at you. It's a very twisted mindset You didn't believe that, did you? At that point, when he initially told me that I didn't process anything from the affair It was just, I've had the affair But I remember him saying it And I remember that was what his excuse was That was the excuse of which he gave me What a sick bastard Yeah, I've not really broke that down, really And what did the court say about him? Um, yeah, so the judge was very unforgiving with him. And I'm grateful because I'd prepared myself initially for a not guilty.

1:17:46I thought, how am I gonna live in a world where this man is walking around? And that was my first stage. And then my second stage was, okay, if he gets found guilty, where do we go from here? And then I thought, 18 months community service to a two-year prison sentence. I thought I've got to, I was in self-preservation mode, let me get to these points that mean I can cope. And then when he got 11 years, I was grateful for the 11 years, still not enough, but I was grateful. How was that moment then? Did you feel as if you could flip the chapter over that time? Or did you feel as if that was kind of the start of kind of trying to process what you'd actually been through instead of being on autopilot?

1:18:29Um... Do you know, there was a level of me in shock. Um, and worry. Like, 11 years. Um, what was gonna happen after... How old were my kids after 11 years? You know, what was gonna happen? Because there was a Lifetime Australian order put in for me, but not for the children. And that's something else that really wound me up. was that his barrister has said that he had had an exemplary record from the arrest to now and that we hadn't received you know any negative behavior from him which was a lie we had to get a non-molestation order because he was hounding us at the house and going to the children's school so on that premise on that lie and i hope that barrister can sleep with himself because he would have known that he'd had a non-molestation order so that's the only reason why the judge didn't put in a lifetime order for my children and I know I shouldn't be saying my children but I can't have the association to him you know they're my kids I love them and that is that but I don't understand how a barrister can do that and when you're sat in a courtroom you're not allowed to speak and say hello that's not right you're told to shut up and I think that that's a real crappy failing of the criminal justice system so that point I was working out 11 years how old will the kids be you know have they got to go through a restraining order when he gets out.

1:19:52How do you break that sort of news to the kids before it hits the media, before anyone else tells them? How do you have that conversation, what their dad has been doing to their mum? Well they found out pretty quick because he was arrested in the house and he wasn't quiet when he'd broken in that night. So he'd gone round a few places to run to a few people and hide as it It became public very quickly. Um, I had to have open and honest conversations with them because it was all around school. Yeah, it must have been hard for them. How do you keep them sane? I don't know if I have. No. You have to ask them.

1:20:33How do you, like, that's some, it's dark news, you know? It must be difficult. That must be the difficult thing because you seem like a little warrior anyway. You just kind of get on with it. You understand, I'm just going to fight through it, which you've done in the last 20 years. but to protect kids it's a different ball game especially what their friends think how other people treat them because it's you know what people are like people tease on it as well yeah i think uh certain phrases we use like well we'll know who our friends are and we lost some we lost a lot we got defriended and all sorts um i think unfortunately for the children they had to to develop a hard skin, um, which I know at some point, between childhood and adulthood, you have to develop, but probably not in the same context.

1:21:19They each almost grieved differently, you know, because they, whatever way you look at it, they lost their dad. Whether it would be through death, through prison, you know, if he ran off to Timbuktu, he was still missing. And I think as a family, we had to learn to develop a new equilibrium in the household. Um, but they all processed it differently, and I guess I had to develop many different hats, but I'm incredibly proud of them. I really am. Um, you know, they could have gone one or two ways with this. They could have, you know, grown from it, not, you know, not that I would have wanted them ever to have had to, or it could have broke them.

1:22:01And on this occasion, it didn't. And hopefully, they'll be all right. Did he have any best friends? Did he have any close associates? because the people who sort of walked away from you, you must question them. Did they know? Are they part of it? Did they do that to their wife? Yeah, well, I was surprised at some of the church people actually, because they were - Some of them are the worst cunts in the world, Bible bashers. Like, I'm all for people following religion, but some of them promote as if they have all the answers. Everyone is in different stages of their life. Everyone is in different stages, whether you want to believe in Jesus or God or whoever.

1:22:35But some of these people look down at people as if they're the holiest people on the planet. Like they're not sinners. Some of the best people on this planet who help people have come from the worst sins. That's why they can help people because they've walked that path. Some of these people are so full of shit that how can you condemn people and not speak to people because they wear certain things or speak certain ways? Not everybody's the same as them. So some people in those churches, they are full of shit. Some amazing people and some are great preachers and some pastors and unbelievable people.

1:23:03But sometimes you've got to question these people because not all of them are made out to be because there's some demonic stuff and no churches as well. Yeah, I think for me, I agree with that 100%. And I also think that, you know, some of the people that stopped talking to me and continue to talk to him, where's the safeguarding? I'll tell you what then. I'll urge you to go to bed for six months at night laying next to him with a bottle of sleeping pills and see how you get on because you're not talking to me because you're believing him. why haven't you assessed the risk? I had somebody message me that I was a terrible person for not letting him see his children what devoted dad he was and blah blah blah blah blah.

1:23:45Now bear in mind when this comes out I'm not allowed to talk about it. There's a risk that if I talk about it and it took four years I couldn't proclaim my innocence for four years I couldn't set the record straight for four years and that tosser was going around town telling God knows what to God knows who. And people were judging me that, well, you know, if I was a real Christian, I'd let him see his children. Firstly, that's down to the courts, not down to me. Although, as you asked me as a mother, no, I don't want him seeing them, not at all. But at this point, he was taking me to children's court.

1:24:20So I was surprised that some of the church people, because they weren't meant to judge, well, they absolutely did, and they chose his side instantly discredited me we lost friends and i had to explain that to the children why we're not seeing these people anymore and it was it was such a shame that i thought well that is such poor safeguarding are you going to have him working in children's groups vulnerable women are you going to have him alone in a vestry praying with a woman you know it's outside of you at this point and why aren't you taking those steps to risk assess Now you know, or now you even suspect there's no excuse.

1:24:59That's what really disappointed me. Not necessarily that they turned their back on me, they're not a loyal friend anyway, off you trot. It's the fact that they're either putting themselves or other people in a dangerous situation, and that really pissed me off. He would have pulled the wool over a lot of people's eyes. He'd done it for you for nearly 20 years. So he would have been filling their head with absolute shite. That's what you wanted. It's what she wanted. it's this it's that like I say point fingers and blaming so other people would have took his side but if the facts are there if he's admitted certain things what the fuck is that there's nothing to question you would never have him around any you wouldn't have him around your worst enemy he's a fucking sex case he's one of the worst on the planet yeah do you know it doesn't shock me but it just I don't think of him that way I hear you talking about him being a psychopath and blah blah blah and I guess you're right but I haven't really thought about what he is who he is who he really is what he really is I just I've never you know I've sat there and I've got as far as going god he's just fucking crazy like and I really don't like him um but I think that level of disassociation if I get too close to that like what's gonna happen if I really break that down because not many people sit opposite me and be absolutely outraged like you are i had years of people just being like well you know it's kev it's very different it's a contrast for me i guess is what i'm saying but it must make it easier as well for you to process because if you actually go right down the rabbit hole and see it how it is it might hit you like a fucking ton of bricks maybe that's your coping mechanism yeah and plus you lived it as well sometimes wasn't someone else's story they don't see what they've actually been through or actually lived to a certain degree until somebody from the outside and goes nope he's a fucking monster everything's there and listen he's been through the protocol but it must listen there's things that people go through in life and it's difficult to remain silent especially i've been through the family courts i've been through it all myself so understand not as dark as you but to be told to remain silent is a difficult thing because the truth is always out there now accusations can destroy lives but the thing about the truth it can also help rebuild lives that's the beautiful thing not all manner is evil is that either like we're living in a world where everything's a bit fucking confusing confusing and a bit messy i think social media is completely destroying it but he is a complete fucking sex case monster and i has your kid should be nowhere near this man no matter what anybody says like I say these bible thumpers man or some great people in these churches yeah um but a lot of them are so confused and caught up and that's a book they're reading it's a book we don't know if it's 100 accurate either it's only a book there's no difference from reading a harry potter book and I don't mean to discredit anybody who's in faith or anything because it's a great thing to believe in a higher power on someone who's the creator like I don't have all the answers I've never read the bible or the quran I've dipped my toe into certain things to try and get an understanding but you can't tell people how to live and how to feel and how to think because you've believed you've read a book and you've got all the answers from it you know like everybody sins people forgive people don't forgive you shouldn't forgive everyone I don't give a fuck who you are if you're dark and demonic and what harm children I ain't forgiving you if anything I want to be off with your head you know like some people need to be protected more but we're living in a society where everything's so normalized these stories are just so frequent now yeah and that's the sad thing about it but whatever you're doing is clearly working because you're still clearly stable from what i see but it must be difficult to help process something that's been going on for nearly 10 years and now it's at the end of it the more you speak about it though the more you start feeling more freely and then you start getting support and you go yeah that makes sense because when you're not getting support when the outsiders and friends and family are kind of turning against you you start questioning yourself you start questioning am i the wrong one am i bad maybe he's the good guy.

1:29:09You start questioning it. It's not until everything comes out to the open, you realize what you've done was the late thing. Because not only you've saved yourself to a degree, even though what you've went through, but you can also save other people. Because with his mindset seemed to get worse every year. He could have been capable of anything, not just killing you, but killing your kids and other shit that could have came with it. That's a scary thought to have, you know? Yeah, I think I've only just started to process it over the last couple of months. it honestly it's i'm only just starting to understand the severity and what a dangerous situation that i was in um i think the the preservation part of my mind just took me far away from that um and i think in terms of forgiveness um yeah we all sin we all fuck up but it's also where's the repentance now there are some people that make a mistake and they repent from it.

1:30:07You know, they... whether it's a speeding ticket or they go too far or they run into somebody's... whatever. I mean, they repent from it. They're not gonna do it again. They had one affair, they're never gonna do it again. The thing is of him is that he wasn't repentant. Still isn't repentant. He's still on that crusade of, I have done nothing wrong. So I don't think you can even look to bringing those sorts of people anywhere back on the planet or into society. I just don't think you can. Did the coppers take his laptop and phones and stuff? They took his phone, one of his phones, not the computers.

1:30:42I'm surprised they didn't take the computers. Me too. The phone must have been enough though. Yeah. Do they have any of the footage on it? I'm not sure. Do they not tell you that for your own protection? No, I don't think I even asked. I think... No, I don't know. So did he plead not guilty? For everything, all the charges, yeah. How many charges? It was four. And ended up getting 11 years. Yeah. And for the long-term, it wouldn't matter what he'd got for, you know, the raping me. It was the intent, you know, um, which, you know, he said not guilty to, to the intent to stupefy. um but then in court on the second third day he said well yes i did do it because she wanted me to so the judge said well you pled not guilty you could have got like a five percent reduction on your sentence and then he started having to go his barrister for not telling him for god's sake is he in protection i would imagine if someone finds out who he is he'll get done in yeah so be it you know it's god's will but do you feel a bit safer knowing that he's got present time do you feel as if you can try and rebuild your life now i think i'm starting to rebuild it yeah i'm i'm grateful i'm grateful for the people that have reached out because i felt so incredibly alone when i was going through it nobody could relate to me as i said i had stupid things such as you know well you were asleep oh yeah but he loves you and he's made a mistake or but he's a good dad does being a good dad mean that it's okay for him to do what he did to me I just don't understand you know um people saying that I asked for it I loved it I wanted it like it's just like all sorts of nonsense but you know you hear something enough and you start to think is there any weight to that and there was a lot of people out there I mean I was shopping with the kids and pets at home and I got screamed at absolutely tore strips off of in the middle of pets at home once in front of the kids.

1:32:56So I didn't feel very safe going out. So I'm learning now that it's not, I'm not the problem, you know? The worst you can say is I was stupidly in love and completely groomed and fell head over heels for a psychopath, say, for instance. But I really didn't understand and I need people to understand how easy it is, you know, their wearing the disguise. You don't often meet somebody and question how genuine they are, or if it's their true self, and you start to fall in love with somebody. You know, you don't second, third, fourth guess somebody of who they really are and what their intentions are.

1:33:39You know? And I think that a lot of people, because I've been blamed so much that I should have seen, that I should have known, people need to know that, you know, we had half a frickin' town that thought he was wonderful so let alone me you know it's really easy to get into this sort of situation it's easy to be blindsided now because people are wolves in sheep's clothing you never rob people's true intentions but like you say you can be blindsided after a week a month and not seeing the telltale signs because that time you're already head over heels for someone so people need to protect themselves more especially now yeah especially now how frequently does this happen because obviously we read the stats in America but more people came forward to you to say it's happened to them yeah yeah well there's a lot of statistics out there and I think I'm calling for the re-education of first responders and even education in school when I grew up and my kids doing PHSE they're learning about you know say who they walk home with you know and date rapes you know and covering your drink the drink covers in clubs.

1:34:49But are we having these conversations with our kids to think that it could happen to the partner, the person that you trust? We're not really. We just don't think. I certainly didn't think that I needed to. Those sorts of things aren't being covered in schools that, you know, I didn't understand. In my education, I didn't even think or contemplate marital rapes. And I know that my children haven't learned that in school. So I'm calling for the re-education of that. And I've met with the MP and CNN lady is doing those sorts of things as well. And even the statistics, to keep a statistic and national statistics of marital drug-facilitated rape, that isn't even a thing.

1:35:28So the MP is going forward and getting those changes. So I think that from this, there will be a level of, say healing, but there'll be a level of processing that at least, you know what, yes this has happened to me and it's absolutely shit but from this good will come you know for the future for the for the kids you know for our sons and daughters what the fuck is happening with the world that's that in america 15 of marriages this happens in 15 people out every 100 it happens in there's bad enough people worrying about is a partner cheating can't afford to pay their bills never mind now are they fucking drugging and raping you while i'm sleeping videoing it posting photos not knowing if they're selling it on the dark web not knowing who else they're doing it to yeah it's getting to the stage where everybody's going to remain remain single i think so yeah but i think like um you know is it is it on the gp's list when we go to the gp and we say look i'm getting recurrent urine infections i'm tired all the time are they thinking are you being drugged and raped probably not no i just think that we need to have a re-education for you know schools GPs, colleges and those sorts of things and I'm going to make that my absolute mission to do and since I set up the Facebook page which I'm looking to turn into a charity that end eye check what is the Facebook page for people to go and have a look and follow it was end eye check and I took that from the fact that I thought I wonder if that's what he did to me did he how did he check that I was asleep I didn't even realize that hashtag eye check was a thing that men were hashtagging eye check and sending photographs of their wives eyes to prove that she was asleep you know so I set up end eye check and I've had so many people contact me and say this has happened to me or I think it's happening to me you know I'm waking up with these symptoms what were yours mine are the same um there's no you know we don't really and this is a really delicate thing and I'm not going to say this right and I really hope I don't offend anybody but it's a different type of rape to I've been dragged down an alleyway and I've got the bruises of being black and blue I know my trauma because I remember it to a point this is somebody that we've assessed as safe that we've married and had children with and introduced you know to our parents and bought a home with and run a business with and I don't have the same scars and memories that somebody else would have for that level of trauma so I almost feel like a few women have said this to me we feel like a fraud to be sat in the same room as another woman that has had that terrifying experience of being awake we feel like a fraud because as people are very clearly and confidently said to me yeah but you're asleep so does it really matter you know it's a different type of a different type of psychological and physical abuse so it's a very different type yeah do you battle with that you try to separate but it's all the same doesn't matter if it's down a lane or whether you're lying next to your husband you're being raped you're not consenting and it's not consensual so it's it's bad in all different forms you know but yeah obviously if you hear somebody else's story you don't feel as if it's as traumatic but it is yeah well i feel like theirs is more traumatic than mine you know because it's like well at least i don't remember it you know and i know and that's what i mean is that i'm gonna upset a lot of people and i really don't mean to but i can only be honest with what the consensus is from people that i have spoken to that this has happened to it's like we don't have the same stripes and wounds that you have therefore we feel like you know we don't belong you know it's it's very it's very strange you know it's like that what has happened to you was way worse than what's happened to me kind of thing you know and i know it's crazy we went through it for nearly for many years as well you know kids husband some people might struggle to process it even more because it was a person that they loved yeah you know so there's different levels and different traumas of how different how people see it maybe that's your way of coping with it that there's worse things that can happen yeah very possibly and that's because i mean how do we and speaking to these women how do we kind of we're almost being told that we're being raped it's like I've had I was I had to be told that I was being raped whereas somebody else that has gone through the alleyway well they know that they were raped then the processing speed is very different you then break down every physical consensual intimate relation that you had with that person you then question yourself where did I go wrong was I not enough should I have done this maybe if I'd have done.

1:40:14It's so different, you know? And it's like the poor woman that did walk down the alleyway. She gets blamed. Well, was she drunk? Did she have a short skirt? It's like, there is no excuse. There is just none. But when you talk about consent, it had to be explained to me that because I was asleep, I couldn't consent. Because that's a re-education that we're not learning about. We're not learning about this in school. We know we're not consenting when we're saying no but it's very different than happening when you're asleep i remember my amazing officer saying to me zoe if you are asleep if you are sedated you can't consent and it was like oh shit yeah you know that is not that level of education is missing from society from doctors And what is this eye detect, this sort of eye...

1:41:07Eye check. Eye check. What is this eye check? So eye check, and through that investigation, through these God knows how many million people, and through these websites like Motherless, and she doesn't know it while she's asleep, those sorts of things. Once the woman is sedated, they're proving she's sedated by getting the camera and shining the light on her eye, they're lifting it up to prove that she's out of it. so they're then writing hashtag eye check like they've done the eye check they're now going to go on to the rape so i set my pages instagrams tiktok on that and facebook as end eye check we've got to we've got to cause an end to it so i'm just trying to raise awareness to to end to end it basically so who are these people talking to when they're sending pictures of their partner's eyes and surely these websites can be shut down if you can censor people from mentioning covid or whatever they can censor any word and it's scary why but again i believe the world is run by demonic fucking monsters so there's a lot of stuff that gets kept here for for reasons because they're demonic themselves but where they i don't even want to give the information because people will be straight on they're looking but how do these people are talking to people how to how to do this sort of thing so they are they're apps predominantly apps that are that are set up a wide network, where they are exchanging information on how to rape somebody, how much dosage to give her, you know, start off low, work your way up.

1:42:41Uh, they're asking for help, that maybe her breathing's become labored, what do I do? Just wait it out another half an hour. Um, or, and they're exchanging videos, either for free or for sale, of the rapes occurring. Scary. and these are hundreds of thousands you know 80 million 80 million views in one month 80 million clicks in one month from that page i said that that is those statistics are scary you know it's scary where we're going man i wouldn't say it's end times but fucking must be close to it i mean i've had conversations with my kids that i never would have thought i'd have had to have as a parent, you know, I never would have dreamed of thinking I'd have to sit down and explain to them what's happened.

1:43:29You know, you prepare yourself to explain to your children about the death, maybe the breakup of a relationship, you know, me and your mum aren't together anymore, those sorts of things. But to have to explain this and answer those sorts of questions, I wasn't prepared for. So I'm just judging by the way the world's going, I think more education and more open dialogues and conversations is the best way to be educated. Because not only have you got to worry about your daughter being out, you've now got to worry about who she's spending time with, who is she around, what are their capabilities, what do they think about you?

1:44:08You don't know all these answers because you don't know what people are thinking. And I think I'm a good, I can assess people, but again, if you're married to someone and everybody thinks he's a village fucking good guy, not realizing he's one of the worst that's or people can fear anyone. And it's such a heinous crime that you don't falsely accuse somebody. You don't want to falsely accuse somebody. But I remember on one of the posts, this one woman wrote, I'm going to be talking to my six brothers. And I thought, I wonder how many people are now having those conversations that we can talk and talk to our children, talk to our daughters and worry about our daughters.

1:44:44Are we talking to our sons? You know, because these men like Kevin, they've grown up from something. So instead of it always being the responsibility of the girls that we've got to look out for our signs, we need to be having conversations with lads and boys about having a healthy sex life and where the boundaries are. It must also happen to men as well, I'd imagine gay men as well, but does women ever do it to men? I haven't had a man come forward. No. One. One man has said that something similar has happened to him. but again I don't think the records for that maybe are being held I might be wrong but I can imagine the stigma of a man coming forward um which would just be awful yeah I don't know if they're sedated that they could even work anyway yeah I'm not sure so but I'd imagine that must happen to a lot of gay men as well but it's just scary so after he gets his sentence you've done cnn the interviews sort of went worldwide how's life been um it's crazy because i i feel like i'm processing it more now than ever before i i did um i did a i think it's like bbc file on four last year and i went under a pseudonym and my boys took part in that as well they wanted to and they were you know questioned and she was really really lovely but i wasn't ready to come forward.

1:46:15I don't know what happened psychologically between now and then, but it felt like the right time. I felt like I could, and my kids were older, and I had the support of them, the support for my family to come forward. But all I can say is I have been able to process more since coming forward, and since having support, an unprecedented amount of support. there has been some stupid things but I don't even give weight to that and I wonder if I had that level of support at the beginning would my journey of of healing and and coming to terms with it have been easier what is the telltale signs for anybody that's listening maybe loves their partner 10 20 30 years is there any telltale signs that people should actually look out for that this could possibly be happening i would say um and it doesn't have to be all of them but it might warrant just a conversation with a gp um unrelated urine infections not knowing why you're getting a urine infection if there's no cause but you keep getting them um feeling confused and tired um some women have had restraint marks on them if you're you know a lot of it's self-doubt because you talk yourself out of something.

1:47:34If you went to bed and you had, you know, a nightdress and pants on and your pants are missing, for instance, why would you wake up and take your pants off? You know, you know, those sorts of things. And if you are, you know, sore or obviously if there's any evidence the next day upon going to the toilet and you know that you haven't had relations with your husband before going to bed or your partner before going to bed. um but i think you know some women have had like blocks of memory in the day where they're missing chunks of the day because they're feeling very confused and disorientated um but it's such a wide net because it you know nausea i felt nausea it depends on what medication you're being given and they could have a whole host of side effects you know they're like one medication might have different side effects.

1:48:27You know, one side effect might have numb hands and feet. Another side effect might just be nausea, not numb hands and feet. So, you know, it really is difficult, but I guess it would be a time to re-evaluate maybe the state of your marriage. Not in a bad way, but just look, are things going well? Are things going awry? Is this something that I need to consider? Has he ever tried to reach out? I said no, I didn't want to know because I didn't to give him, I think, not knowing where the pictures are, and, you know, what he's done with them. And the fact that he has seen me at times that I haven't consented to.

1:49:04I didn't want to give him the position of power to be able to sit in front of me like yourself and lie to me again, and mess my head up more. Like, I'm just getting it straight. Um, ish. So I said that I didn't care what he had to say. I don't want to hear it. Like he can go to his grave knowing that he might want to say all these things to me and never get the chance. Why did they cover up his face? Why have they not revealed his face? That I can't go into. Okay. Yeah, because I was going to put photos on him, you know what I'm saying? Just so people are more aware. Yes. And like I say, it's important because as soon as people know his face, then more people can come forward as well.

1:49:47Because if it started with you, there's a good chance it could have been other people. but again maybe that was your sense of control but was there any answers of why these people I know you says Kendall through it was like a control thing but is there any sort of there's no answer that ever makes sense but is there any answers of why people do this sort of thing what I have been learning and reading through various different psychologists that have been speaking on the issue as well as women in personal circumstance a lot of these men tend to feel quite inadequate. They might be life and soul of the party, but they are a very insecure person.

1:50:25That is absolutely not to say that if you have an insecure man that he will go on to fit this crime. But that's no different than if I'm extra thirsty. It doesn't always mean that I'm a diabetic, does it? But I'm just saying that the whole dominance and power thing, and definitely for him, his whole ethos was that, you know, he's never going to be good enough and other people are better than him. Um, it didn't matter how much I loved him, I couldn't love him well. You know, I couldn't get him better for him, he had to do that himself. But I think that, you know, for him having this, this constant mental illness, that no one could quite put their finger on, I think he used that as an excuse, and then to, you know, to facilitate the crimes in which he committed against me.

1:51:11But the running theme seems to be that this person likes to get off on taking control yeah because it seems like a bit of a baby you know it seems like the mental health side of stuff seems to be like a free pass for when shit hits the fan it seemed to try to cover these tracks for what was to come but it seems like a fucking bit of a baby always kind of complaining and moaning like they needed to be mothered like a creepy bastard you know what i'm saying yeah it did looking back now i think that he did need that he would describe it as, you know, he didn't have a very good relationship with his mum, but his brother did.

1:51:51He didn't have a good relationship with his stepdad, but his brother did. His brother was more of an intellectual. Looking at it from the outside, I can't see that. His mum loved him. His stepdad loved him. But he would always describe, you know, his dad left and went to Germany, but equally his dad left his brother and went to Germany. But he would say, my dad left me, my dad walked out on me. You know, I got raised without having a dad. So he was always kind of like using these things to build on the narrative of poor me, woe is me, I'm trying my best kind of thing. Yeah, victim mentality. I mean, everybody else is really the victim.

1:52:32Yeah. But back then, when I was 17, so what we're looking at, 2000, that wasn't, we weren't looking at victim mentalities. You know, that wasn't, not socially acceptable, but it wasn't as prevalent as the communications that we're having today, talking about victim mentalities and narcissists and, you know, those sorts of things. We weren't really having those conversations. Yeah, you were oblivious to it. Yeah. Yeah. How do you feel today? All right. Yeah. But you seem like a little worried. Like I said, I think you're going to do big things. I think you can create more awareness and create a big, better change.

1:53:10Because as much as it's not obviously throwing you off, you're still pushing through to fight back. And I think that's all you can do sometimes. Yeah. I think that's all I've got. I can't make sense of why he's done what he's done. Do you think you ever will? or do you think you even ever want to know um oh do i think i ever will no and i've got to make my peace with that and i some days i have made my peace with that some days i haven't um do i want to if you knew him if you met him you'd honestly know that whatever came out of his mouth would never be the truth. So even if I got to speak to him and I heard what he had to say, it would purely be to either get me where he wanted me or to use that for his gain.

1:54:11So I don't think I want to know. I don't think I want to know why he did what he did because it's not going to be nice, let's face it. It has to be something about him and nothing about me. It has to be that level of perversion. um i guess that's what i'm gonna put it down to do you have a question why you met him why i met him

1:54:38well i guess people say to me if you could do it all again would you you know why i met him was right place right time wrong place right time i'd never take away my children this isn't their fault I'd never say god in an ideal world I'd never go through it again never have my kids like they are my life and I'm incredibly proud of them so I mean I'm glad to have my children and I'm I know that if I'd have had children with somebody else I wouldn't have the four incredible beings in my life that I do right now and I'd never change that and I don't want them to feel any guilt any shame for being who they are they want no association with in our house he's known as knobhead he doesn't even have a name that's a good name there's just like oh you know i have a lie at night though and think how the fuck is my story ended up like that you know i must you must penny must drop sometimes where it's because you live it it's difficult but i just think what the fuck i just went through yeah i mean i i've got some friends that believe in fate you know I've got others you know that believe in very very many and sometimes think what did I do wrong in the past life like I'm going to be a slug in the next life before something depending on who I'm talking to I don't know I I just know that I went into that marriage with love with good intentions being genuine um I don't think you know I can't I can't be anything other than that.

1:56:13It's a shame that I met somebody with ill intentions that wasn't genuine, that seemed to be for all intents and purposes a psychopath. Um, and perhaps my naivety of being so young, um, and him being my first real relationship, um, enabled him to start going down that road he was going down. How do you ever trust a man again?

1:56:42Well, I don't believe that just because he has done that that everybody is going to do that. I just don't. Because, for instance, there are women that have gone and done some terrible, heinous things, and I know that I'm not capable of it. I think for me, I look at capacity. I find this crime so hard because I don't have the capacity to commit it, and I just, I can't even, you know, I can't even see how somebody could commit that crime. But he could, and he did. So, I know that there are other men out there that are just as outraged, that just cannot even see a way forward. That there's not even an option for them.

1:57:21So I just judge people on who they are, not on his past indiscretions. I wouldn't think, I wouldn't want somebody to judge my boys based on what their dad has done. But it is scary to think that there's people out there like that. My God, yeah. They could do that to his wife. Listen, people fight, people argue. it's things that happen and people get stressed there's so many different pressures now but the levels that he went to is demonic I'm surprised I wouldn't be surprised if they make a movie about this man because it's fucking nuts I think you know I just don't understand I don't understand why if he didn't just want sex he just didn't ask for it he just didn't like make it happen I don't know why he had to go to the extent of drugging me to do it.

1:58:09That's why I go back to going, there has to be something about the dominance. There has to be something in that, because the guy wasn't sex-starved. I don't understand. It just sounds like the insecurities as well. I interviewed P Diddy's sort of sex slave, the kind of male escort. So P Diddy apparently had a little willy. So his bushes would cast it. But his mum was a prostitute in that as well, P Diddy. but apparently because of his own insecurities he used to get these male escorts to have sex with his partner while he watched behind them and then he used to take her up the stairs and finish and he used to wear a lot of burkin and stuff and cover his identity like mad shit this is a powerful man in the music industry there's a lot of darkness and I think insecurities play a massive part in these sort of roles I don't know like you say it's some sort of power or they try to create these scenes in their mind, he believes they were trying to create like live pawn scenes but to be in control of them like direct them like it's nuts it's nuts wow but insecurities has got a massive part to play in how people's minds slip but they shouldn't slip to that level I think if anybody wants people can do what they want and behind closed doors to a certain degree not the shit they went through do you know what I mean but people can be who they want to be we're living in a danger but I just feel as if it's getting darker and darker people like Bonnie Blue and A Thousand Men and I'm all for me who you want to be your body your choice whatever but it's just becoming so normalised and now we're living in a day and age where things are getting weirder and weirder listen I could understand if your wife was a fucking pain in the ass moaning if I ain't nagging fuck this I'm slipping so much you shut up go let me watch your football for a couple of hours but the lengths that people go to for their own kicks and their own wicked ways is disturbing and it's scary for future generations I think the internet and I'm not against the internet you know, if there wasn't that social media content, you and I wouldn't be sat here now, and I wouldn't get this level of awareness, or, you know.

2:00:11But I think that there are phrases, you know, the dark, if the good's growing, like this, and these conversations, then the bad is too. And I think we've got to take note of that. But I mean, there's new phrases, you know, two years ago, all you heard, everybody's a narcissist, you know, your bloody shopkeeper's a narcissist, and your neighbor's a narcissist and actually it desensitizes those which really are narcissists not every ex-boyfriend or girlfriend is a narcissist some are just dickheads and sometimes it just didn't work out okay look at your part in it look at their part in it but there are narcissists out there and i think the thing with social media and i think it's great and all these apps to a point they're great but it does enable the bad to grow and you get certain phrases that we become accustomed to.

2:00:56So what I'm hearing a load of lately is don't kink shame. I'm not kink shaming you, but, and I wonder if these people that are getting off on these very gross stuff, and I'm not saying if you're into something weird, you're capable of doing this, but I'm wondering how did they, how did they excuse the level of which, you know, how did they find each other? How did they feel confident to be able to say, well, this is what I want to do. Oh, great. meet me here because this is what I want to do. There's such a level of openness, like you said, Bonnie Blue, and expression these days. There's no law in expression, but it's when it crosses over and I think there's a very fine line between expression and, you know, when to take it further if you've got that addictive personality, which I think you did have.

2:01:46But you're in that sort of relationship is the baby steps to going through everything to the bigger stuff. so the time you've got there sometimes the way the governments operate they'll put out little things and then it gets to the big things 10 years later but that time everybody's desensitized to it because all the baby steps have kind of been a good place like people you just never know man people must question everything everyone their surroundings whatever kinks they've got you must question them because a lot of stuff is normalized and if you're feeling uncomfortable you must question it you must fucking step back because do not accept anything because the sake of love but that's what I'm hearing don't kink shame, but this is what I'm into.

2:02:24Don't kink shame. Well, actually, there might be some kinks that are not okay, this being one of them. You know, but I think that there can be such, you know, when you're looking at a post about not kink shaming, and it's got, you know, 14 ,000 likes in two hours, you kind of think, oh, well, I better not kink shame. It's like there are some things that we have to call bullshit on and say is completely unacceptable. Do you believe people can shame their partners into believing that it's their kink to do it while partners are complicit to being drugged so their partners can do what they can do do some what is the sort of laws around that if someone was accepting to okay do that to get your own way but she's complicit so as in let me see if i understand this as in if somebody says yes i'm allowing you to drug me so that you can do this to me it's a weird fucking question but yeah you talk about the kink stuff yeah when the about the kink stuff how people can operate like i don't think it should not be allowed anyway but some people might normalize it and i bet you are saying because like rape scenes and all that like girls cmc there's a high percentage of girls actually fantasize about that as well i watched something and they were going through the male and females the biggest things they type in in porn and one room for women was rape scenes strangulation all that stuff so i can't fucking remember i need to try and put that there at the co-op but there's sort of stuff that out there as well yeah well that was one of the things i said cmp i think he's gonna raise you know um is cnc porn and i think he did something to do with that women being strangled um in porn scenes as well i think he worked on So I'm feeling hopeful.

2:04:09Um... What is that? See what? CNC is consensual, non-consensual. So it simulates a rape scene for porn, basically. And apparently there's loads of websites with that on there. But I heard some kids on the bus, I'm talking, they must have been 13, talking about CNC porn. And I was like, what the hell are these kids talking about? And this is what I mean about the re-education, that if you've got girls, boys, 13 years old, thinking that this is all okay and this is acceptable, we'll just take one drunk a night, you know, and I just think that there needs to be a healthy re-education when it comes to boundaries and sex for children.

2:04:48But I think that women probably have agreed to do that for their partners. They have agreed to allow themselves to be sedated. But I think, and I might be wrong that if you are in a position where you cannot consent so once the sedation has taken place it then becomes criminal because she can't say no even if she wants to at that point because she's out cold but i i do believe that it will be easy enough to pressurize a woman to doing that yes like you say if i love yeah so that's a good thing though so no matter what if you agree to that or not it's still rape because she can't consent yeah where do you go forward for the future with it all i am going to keep banging this drum to be honest i am because there's so much more work like while i know there's laws out there that need changing i'm not going to stop while there's women that need talking to and talking with and walking alongside i'm not going to stop i'm just going to keep on doing it while schools need to change their education program I'm not going to stop.

2:05:53And again, while GPs aren't even thinking that this is an option. We need anybody that's in a duty of care to be re-evaluating where the boundary is. You know? And I think that this is, I'm going to turn what's happened to me into something positive. People will get sick of me, I'm sure. Nah, I don't think so because it needs to be spoke about. You've lived it firsthand, so you can speak about it more than anyone. Difficult subject though. Of course, as it's a subject that not many people want to talk about. but some of these questions need to be answered because a lot of people are uneducated as well a lot of people it's not that they're bad some people don't know the fucking simple facts of certain things the male and female both sides there's things that need to be put in place like you say the educational system of what should what's right and wrong everybody knows right and wrong but there's just so much everything with social media and everything normalized with porn people are so confused their minds are warped so there needs to be more people speaking and banging the drum like you say but whatever it is and why you're dealt these cards you're clearly strong enough to play them I believe I'll keep hearing from you a lot more and anything I can help with listen I'm only a phone call away how can people contact you how can they ask you questions because a lot of people want to stay anonymous remember you've only found out because he had a moment of fucking trying to confess his sins the stupid cunt but there's a lot of things that will go unnoticed where people will not even know what they've went through and make people too scared to come because i've interviewed male and female who've it's took them 20 years to come forward you know a lot of men as well it takes them longer apparently and they questioned their sexuality because they're being abused by men when they're only like five and six years old like sick stuff that they have to battle with you know but how can people contact you ask you questions maybe come forward how did you get help well i've got my um social media pages and i think that's probably the best way which is the end eye check and i can give you the links for them as well if you're happy to use them and i'll just do my best to to walk alongside somebody as i said i'm in the middle of getting it set up as a charity um because ideally i want to get the education out there and i'm happy to to talk to anybody as much as possible i have noticed that there are people that are messaging me privately but are not outwardly having an affiliation with the page and I said to them that that's fine you know at the time I wouldn't have wanted to you know been on Facebook and TikTok with domestic violence pages when I was in it so to be speaking to women that are in it at the moment just to have a message just to know there's somebody out there they can talk to and I've said to them you know they're not sure if anything's available in their area it's not safe for them to google I'll happily you know look that I've met a couple of women as well I've met a couple of women that very similar has happened to um but I've also said even if somebody hasn't had a drug facilitated rape but they've just you know experienced a sexual assault you know I'm here for them for that as well it's it's a sexual assault either way.

2:08:56Zoe for anybody that's maybe battling that's maybe went through something similar like you what advice would you have for them to make them keep going because it does so much damage not just to them but the people around them but what advice would you have for people who's going to be struggling with something similar well i think the first thing to know is that whatever those thoughts are that have probably been ingrained for years in your head to think that it's my fault it's my fault i should have done something different they're not solid thoughts they're nothing that you can build a foundation on it's not the truth and the self-doubt is normal if you find you're in a situation that that is a side effect that's a symptom of a drug facilitated rape or a sexual assault you will feel like it's your fault and you should do something differently.

2:09:41If they have the strength to reach out or to work their way up to reaching out to somebody in a professional organization I would suggest it. I was very scared about doing it but I did receive a lot of support and at this point even though you're reaching out to somebody you're still in control of the steps you take. Even when I went to the police it was still up to me whether I prosecuted and in my mind I'd built up that I was going to go to the police and all of a sudden everything would be taken out of my hands so i think control when you've had control taken away from you it's something that you don't want to lose um but there will be stronger days ahead there will be more positive days ahead and to know and i know that everybody says it you're not alone but you do feel alone you know for whatever reason you just do but to just reach out to people so you know that you're not alone so you've got somebody that can understand you so again thank you for coming on telling your story today sorry for what you went through but it's good to see you fighting back spreading more awareness i wish you nothing but the best for the future take care and god bless thank you very much