My Life as a CANNIBAL - The Man Who Ate Dead Bodies Nico Claux

39:09I was condemned to 12 years of prison for with the diminished responsibility thing and I was sent to Maison Centrale de Poissy which is a prison near Paris where they put like serial offenders and terrorists etc. Did they know that you would want to eat people? They knew part of a thing. They knew about what happened in the morgue. They found the blood bags at my place. During the police search, they found bones. They found all those things and they double-checked the graveyards and they saw that I had robbed the graves starting when I was 18. So, they knew all those things. Why were you robbing the graves?

40:03I wanted skulls.

40:08yeah nowadays you can go online and buy skulls it's easy but for an 18 year old kid in the 80s no it wasn't that easy so i wanted to get them so i spent instead of going to school i went to graveyards and i spent an entire afternoons in graveyards and in france there's a lot of mausoleums with locks, etc. So I got into lock picking, basically, so I could have access to the vaults, access to the crypts. And the first times when I went to the crypts, I just went there, took a few books, beat a few candles and stayed there for one or two hours. I just, you know, got the energy. I love the energy.

40:58and uh i had even had this fantasy of moving into a crypt like sleeping in the crypt at night like a vampire if you will but um

41:13i really wanted to have the skulls i really wanted to have like a pile of skulls at home i don't know why it was like a trophy thing maybe and i like i just loved the the skulls themselves so i started to open the the vaults with the crowbar then the coffins um so it was really old coffins they were easy to pry open and i would bring the the scars home sometimes also the leg bones and things like that were you doing any magic with them yeah sometimes I would pour blood over them, feed them with blood, either blood from the morgue when I was working, not the morgue, the blood bank when I was working in the hospital.

42:03And my own blood, etc. I was doing rituals. I had some kind of altar with the skulls. I even made chimes with the bones because I like the sound of bones. You know, there's a special sound that they make when you cling them. So, pretty crazy, huh? So you wouldn't dig the graves? You wouldn't dig, it's the ones that are in the wall, the graves? So you're not digging 10 feet, 10 feet? No, I did it once. That's a lot of work. Yeah, I did it once in Boulogne-Bianco, which is a district in Paris. It was really hard work, and it was not a good experience. Because you're dubbed the vampire of Paris. So what happens in prison?

42:54What was prison like for you? Are you in a special unit? Are you in a special wing because of your thought process? No, no, no. Well, I was alone all the time, alone in a cell. they didn't put other people because they were afraid that I would do something to them. This was an order by the investigating judge. When there are special cases like that, they don't know if I'm going to hit the person basically, so they just left me alone in the cell. I waited three years until the trial. I was in a place that, for people who are waiting trial for three years. I didn't really talk to people when I was there.

43:41I was mostly inside all the time. Sometimes I would go to the rec yard, etc. But I just liked solitude. But then they sent me to Poissy, which is the equivalent of a supermax security place where they put people with high risk. So it was mostly serial offenders.

44:14All the inmates who were there had killed at least one person. What was the fantasies like in prison? Did they stop or did they get worse? No, they stopped. I did a few... Oh. Sometimes I would drink blood. So we had big razors that I would break and use the blades. Sometimes I did that. I scar myself, even though I don't really like it. I prefer, like, needles. But I did that a few times. I even used my blood on letters that I sent to people because I got a lot of mail from people when I was in prison. So sometimes the mail was censored by the authorities. And it's in prison that I started to write to Circulus.

45:11So the thing is, it started that way. I was writing to a guy who collects who collected um letters from criminals in the us in florida and he sent my address to a guy he was writing with called the trash bag killer patrick ernie so it's a guy who killed 30 30 guys in um california and one day i get this letter from this california state prison and it was this guy who was writing in perfect French. Turns out he was a NASA scientist or something, and he wanted to correspond with someone in French, and we started to correspond, and I was like, okay, if I can correspond with this guy in a state prison, maybe I can try to write Richard Ramirez or other serial killers, and this is what I did, and I ended up writing to about 30 serial killers in total, for about 10 years.

46:15What sort of serial killers? Were you exchanging thoughts? Were you exchanging things that you've done? That's the thing. It was mostly about prison talk. How's the prison like there, blah, blah, blah. And also, we were talking about the people that would write us, which were the same. the same bunch of collectors, if you want to call that name, who were asking us for art, artwork, etc. Sometimes they would talk about their case. Sometimes they would share murder fantasies or stuff like that. Sometimes the mail was censored. Sometimes not. so i got some pretty interesting letters i wrote to a young brady even i got a few letters from him but you know i'm not really uh yeah fond of child killers so um essentially um what was he in brady's in it was reminiscing actually very long letters and reminiscing about uh his life before prison.

47:27And, for example, he would talk about the sun-heating revolver on the bedside table because he saw himself as some kind of robber. He wanted to rob banks or something. He didn't see himself as a nasty child killer. You know, he had a very high opinion of himself. And I had read The Gates of Yannis, his book, which I had found interesting because it's a reflection on serial murders. So I knew that he was in contact with Colin Wilson, which was a criminologist who wrote several books on crimes and the occult also. And I asked Brady if he could get me Sagawa's address, you know, the Japanese caliber, because I wanted to write him too.

48:20And it's actually Brady who got me Sagawa's address in Japan. So that was the main reason why I voted Brady. How many serial killers were you in talks with? About 30. Yeah, he says 30. And were you shocked by anything? Or did it all seem normal? Yeah, this guy was obsessed with describing how he tortured women with dildos. Yeah. I don't know if it was a fantasy or what, but he wrote those really long letters about this fantasy that he had. It turns out he killed like five or six women in Florida.

49:08Yeah, that was a bit bizarre, this guy. There was this girl I used to write with, Natasha Kornet. She shot a family of Jehovah Witnesses in a parking lot. They were giving her flyers, and she was God at the time. So they thought that she needed God in her life. She pulled out a gun and she shot them. So she was in prison in Tennessee. We used to write. And I remember that we were talking about manual strangulation in the letter. One of the letters got censored. But the funny thing is that, and you can actually see this letter in the CQA exhibition because this letter is on display. And in the letter, she says, thank you for the tips.

50:00And like one month, months after, she was charged with trying to strangle another inmate with a shoelace. What about Charles Manson? No, I never wrote him. No. I think I tried. I think I sent a letter but never got a reply what about the media attention were you all over the media sometimes the French media at first and then the tabloids and there was a lot of tabloids were very interested in like interviews etc so I did a few interviews from jail when I got out it really got insane I got like plenty of TV, TV proposals, things like that. Then I wanted to keep a lower profile because I was, uh, looking for a job in the morgue again.

50:58Surely there would have been, you would have been getting surveillance because to be eating bodies, drinking blood, killing people, fantasies, speaking to the world's biggest serial killers, there has to be more protection surely for normal people. when there's a will there's a way and uh i forged id papers i forged my criminal files my criminal uh cop reports it's uh built on the well it has a name in french but this is the what the employer asks uh regarding your criminal records i faked all those things forged i mean i forged all those things and I had all the papers. And after one year of looking, I got my first job in the morgue in Paris.

51:50So the funny thing, if you want to call it funny, is that I worked for 13 years using those papers in several morgues. There were some people who knew about it, even cops. nothing was said etc until there was a show i think it was for halloween special or something on tv and it was an old interview that i did with the uh dutch for dutch television i think anyways it was shown again on french tv and somebody recognized me even though i had long here at the time. So they confessed to the hospital priest, and the hospital priest went straight away to the head nurse, the people in charge with the staff, and they told him, okay you have this vampire of paris working in the mode right now so yeah i had to uh leave immediately what were you doing were you doing the same stuff that you were doing in the first mug no no no no i um i was there for the energy uh even if you can yeah i i know you will find it weird, but for me it was a matter of energy, the energy of the place.

53:27Death. Yeah, I needed that. And, you know, when you work in a morgue, there's long periods of time where you don't do nothing except waiting for somebody to die, basically. So I used this time to write, to start writing. All those things that I had done when I was a teenagers were long gone. I had found other ways to, you know, appease the demons inside me, if you will. Partners who shared those things, the blood drinking, etc. And I also just didn't want to go back to jail. I mean, that was basic. And it was an experience that I had done in the past. I didn't want to do it again. Plus, an important thing, I wasn't doing autopsies anymore.

54:24It wasn't part of the things I was doing in the job. So there was no way I was going to butcher those people to get what I wanted, if I wanted it. What do you class as a serial killer? as a potential or as a serial killer in the making. That's what they said. Serial killer in the making.

54:51What do you think a serial killer is? They say, was it after they've got free bodies? But there's many forms of serial killers. People can say a sniper. Yeah. And the army's a serial killer. They've got many kills. They can say prime ministers, presidents. They send people to kill people. You've got Genghis Khan, who's killed millions and millions of people you've got what as a serial killer to you it's a form of sociopathy it's a sociopath a person who has a fetish which is murder because in that case specific case in the serial killer game murder becomes a fetish a way of being aroused, a way of finding some kind of meaning to your life which is not the case of a sniper it's not the case of you know a professional gangster you know the act of killing itself gives meaning to your life it gives meaning and it gives you rush it gives you something that life can give you it's the feeling of being like above everything.

56:06So the definition for me of, for example, there's this guy Luca Magnotta who killed a guy in Canada and he filmed the entire thing and he put it online. He killed him with a screwdriver, but people thought it was an ice pick. So the video was called One Lunatic, One Ice Pick. It was all over the web some years ago. This guy really fits the definition for me. Even if he only killed one person, but he was apprehended before he could kill anybody else. So that perfectly fits the definition for me. Because I have interviewed Larry Mazza. He was a mafia hitman. He's got over 20 kills. He worked with a man called the Grim Reaper, and they say he's got over 200 kills.

56:53but even snipers say they start enjoying it yeah because when they come back home nothing feels good anymore even though they're going crazy they feel more at peace when they're killing people yeah it could be an addiction i also knew professional killers in prison but i think the difference is this feeling also of loneliness and not belonging to anything. I mean, a professional killer is part of a thing, you know, is part of a community, if you will. And in all the serial killers that I talked to and that I had interactions with, this feeling of community, of being part of something, does not exist.

57:46It's always shallow. So it's just loneliness. It's just you against the world. I don't think that snipers and professional killers get that. There's always this feeling that they're doing something for, they're either doing it for mission or they're doing it for, they feel entitled to do it. They feel like they have a reason to do it. but don't get me wrong they're serial killers who kill because they think that they are entitled to do it especially serial killers who kill sex workers for example they think that they are on a divine mission to get the world to get to get rid of sex workers this is the mission and they honestly believe that they are on the side of good so I don't know it's really rare to find somebody who knows that what he's doing is against the current is against humanity is against the world but you know has no problem with it what was your biggest rush?

58:56what did you get the biggest rush from? I don't know I don't even know if it was killing itself because there was this feeling of frustration. Because you never finished the job. Yeah. You killed him, obviously, but you wanted to eat him. Yeah. When you say eat him, would you have eaten him down to the bone? Every part? Eyeballs, tongue? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Just muscles. And see, when you're cooking it, what do you cook it in? the the what i was cooking was the uh parts from the abdominal cavities and under the the ribs yeah but how were you cooking a frying pan frying pan frying pan i would sometimes use condiments uh very basic stuff it was not french cuisine uh i wrote this cannibal cookbook because I thought it would be interesting to find different recipes that were actually used by killers.

1:00:01And sometimes it depends on the culture, where they're from. And they have their own recipes. So I thought it was interesting to explore that. But in my case, it was just basic cooking. Yeah. So no peppercorn sauce, no fries with it? No, no, no, no. Just basic. Yeah. sometimes sometimes people ask me if i would be interested in working in a restaurant you know why not i mean but uh no no i'm not uh a chef what about the voices that you heard what sort of voices what were they saying they didn't exist they weren't there it was me telling that to the psychiatrist i never heard voices oh so you were just saying that for yeah for for for uh lesser time lenient sentence if you will so what happens after the morgue the second time what was your life like then i realized you know james when you're in my position when you know everybody calls you a monster all the time and you're always reminded that you're a monster there's no place for you in society.

1:01:17What are you going to do? Kill again? That would prove them right. That would show them, yeah, I'm the monster. You're right. And I don't want them to have that power on me. I'm still against the world. Not 100 % of the world. I have a few allies. I have a few friends. I have a few people who kind of understand my past and where I'm going. But a large majority still consider me as some kind of freak, some kind of, you know,

1:01:58a mistake of nature. And they want me back in prison or dead. And I don't want them to win. For me, it's a battle. It's a perpetual battle. So the thing I thought was, okay, I have this unique experience, unique perspective on crime. I know how it gets to get there. What's the journey, and I want to describe that in my books. I want, you know, when you write about true crime, usually it's written by journalists, it's written by people who, okay, they investigate the case, etc., but they don't really know what it's like to be there, to feel those things. So this is what I want to bring to the world.

1:02:55give them a window in my mind. So this is why I do the conferences and why I participate to the Serial Clear exhibition. I talk to people and people, they're fascinated. They're fascinated by what I have to say because it's different. I'm not saying, I am born against Christians. And no, I tell them the truth. I tell them that it's a struggle, a struggle against my demons, that I, you know, I control them I have absolutely no desire to go back to prison again and I have found some kind of peace yeah you've got to respect the honesty you know you're saying here you're drinking blood and eating bodies and you're wanting to kill do you still have the urge to kill how do you control that how do you because you had the urge though to kill so when did it start kind of dwindling When did it start thinking you don't have the urge anymore?

1:03:56When did that start stopping? When I started to think about consequences, not only consequences for me. First, it was my family. When I saw them take a slow slide down with alcohol and depression, they were killing themselves with pills. My mom, for example. She was developing a perpetual state of melancholia. Melancholia is the last stage of depression when you're trying to kill yourself all the time. So she was in that stage. She was hospitalized a few times. Seeing that, seeing all the hurt, seeing all the things with the parents of the family that I saw on TV talk about the case a few times, and seeing all the people who were impacted, I just don't want that again, you know?

1:05:06I just, you know, I get no pleasure from that. Do you think you have empathy? I kind of developed empathy, but it's an imitation of empathy. I imitate the feelings that I see I think I have genuine feelings of empathy for a very small handful of people very small but things like you know things that I don't give I don't give a fuck about some things man like things that happen far away or you know people are so involved in things that are just not in their close vicinity, you know what I mean? And I don't get that. I don't understand the feelings of community. I don't understand, you know, why being so involved in things that are outside your circle.

1:06:06I don't get that. Just not for me. Did you speak to Jeffrey Dahmer? No, he was killed before I had the chance to. I wanted to do it, but he was bludgeoned to death by another inmate. Did you ever think that could happen to you because of your history? No, there was more like fear. That's the thing. Plus, the fact that the guy that I killed was actually looking for a minor. Inmates, they don't really care. It's not in the code of honor, if you call it that. you know, they just don't care. But the cannibal thing, yeah. There's a lot of superstitious people, uh, in prisons too. So they, they think that I had the evil eye, that I was, you know, talking to demons and shit like that.

1:07:00So, yeah, no. Were you feared in prison then? Were you respected and feared because of what you've done? Fear, respect? No, I don't, no. Fear, yeah. Respect, it's a big word, respect. You have to earn respect i didn't do anything special for the other inmates to respect me fear yeah yeah but uh yeah sometimes i got even you know conversation interesting conversations were with people with inmates who were on the other opposite path of me like people who killed for god for example you know and they were asking all me all those questions about satanic cults and how to do rituals and stuff like that because they were interested How many rituals did you do?

1:07:47I don't count them. It was a weekly thing at times. What sort of rituals? Prayers, invocations, I've participated in black masses. You know, because of my position, I'm always, well, always. it happens sometimes that I'm contacted by cults or people who are in more or less organized things I have friends in the church of Satan I have friends in the satanic temple I have friends in all those different branches of satanism but the organized thing is not for me I just, and there's more than three people in a room there's automatically one will you you you that you cannot trust so it's not for me i'm not you know i have um you know one thing i do now is uh i work with uh paranormal channels sometimes and we investigate like satanic cults etc and because of uh what i know about those cults i give my opinion on uh uh on the case or the crimes etc so this is something that i do how popular are satanic cults how popular is satanism it's not really popular anymore it was a thing of the 2000s early early 90s between 1990 and the early 2000s it's not it's not a thing anymore.

1:09:28There's no... Yeah, there's the satanic temple in the US, and they have this thing because... But it's not really a satanic cult. It's more like an atheist thing. There's a few... In Russia, yeah, there's a few active satanic cults, and there's so many different branches in Europe. and it's not like there's a worldwide organization with tens of thousands of followers. You know, I read about satanic crimes all the time and, you know, people doing, like, harvesting adrenochrome or stuff like that. I know the real things and I know that it's not that big, okay? But it does exist. It does exist. Sometimes there's secret societies in a certain level, a very high level.

1:10:29They kind of use satanic cults as scapegoats. So they do their orgies and stuff like that. They wear masks and stuff, pretending that it's a satanic thing. but it's really to divert the attention of the victims and make the survivors think that they were victims of satanic cults. But there's especially one secret society that's really famous for that, yeah. What one? Cantaliana Dame. What about adrenochrome? Because it has been massive over the last sort of 10 years with all the kibble and like pizza getting. what is adrenochrome for people who don't know oh it's the harvesting of this thing that's produced by the pineal gland and that's supposed to uh give you a rush or sometimes even make you younger or basically comes from fear and nothing in las vegas when you look objectively at the the thing, it was mentioned in the movie.

1:11:37Now what happens is there's harvesting. That's the real thing. There's harvesting of blood, there's harvesting of energy that's done by secret societies. as I say on a higher level it's not the small levels it's not the peasants who are aware of that it's really the high ranking ones I was approached once I was in a God club and there was this guy comes to me and I knew that he was working for the French government and he asked me okay I heard that you're looking to get your

1:12:22for a change of a legal change of name i was trying to get that at the time because it would have opened a few doors for me so you know this is something i was actually doing i had done all the papers like how do you know that i know a few things okay and he says you know you'll never get it i said why because of who you are okay and he says there's one way to get it i'm like okay what you can work for us for you for who right now i can't tell you but if you do certain things we might help you and then disappeared And it reminded me of something that an older convict had told me in prison about, you know, those secret societies that are linked with the government, approaching inmates, etc., to do their billings.

1:13:32So this is how they work. What is the gut club? It's a gut club in Paris. Yeah. What is that? It was called a locomotive at the time, but it changed. Do you think the world is controlled by evil? The people in power? Because they don't seem good people to me. Yeah. Yeah. There's people who belong to certain circles that are driven by power. They're looking for power. They're looking for use. They're looking to indulge in their kings. I mean, it's no secret. sometimes they want to spice things up with a knuckle element or two a satanic element so those people exist yeah I just think it's a battle between good and evil you know I think when you go to the higher levels like you said there is a lot of secret societies but you have got to be in that club you're talking billionaires you're talking residents you know it's not even them that's on the stage it's people behind them it's behind them it's circles of influence it's people that they know they know somebody who knows someone and you know like snuff movies it's a thing yeah it's a thing there's an elite who has access to that but people are turned on by it I wouldn't say turned on but you look at Netflix look at Monster for instance yeah true crime is the biggest hitters even interviewing you today I was looking forward to it.

1:15:15Yeah. You know, because it's interesting because people don't live that life. Yeah. But I just know how the shock factor will be to people. Do you know, I'm interviewing gangsters or drug laws, but this is a man who drinks blood and eats flesh. Yeah. Again, it's still no difference from the men who's still killing and doing bad stuff, you know, but why do you think it's so popular towards humans? Because Netflix is the biggest hitters of true crime. It's monsters number one around the world. Like people gravitate towards the dark stuff. It's always been a mystery to me because this is my lifestyle.

1:15:48This is who I am. This is who I grew up to be. This is my being. And then I see all those people who I considered as enemies before, and I see them writing me and wanting to take pictures with me when I'm at those conferences or want me to sign books and etc. And they're regular people. They're normal people. and I have interesting conversations with them and they're not judging or anything. And, you know, it's not even people who are in the God community or like wannabe vampires or things like that. It's just regular people, housewives. I don't know. I even had someone working in the Vatican talk to me.

1:16:35So it's kind of mysterious, but I have a few ideas. I think that people are drawn to that because it's extreme. And we live in a very lame society. Everything has been done before. I mean, even sex, you know. It's really hard to find something interesting anymore. We have seen, as a society, we've seen everything, you know. So maybe the most aberrant and weird behavior, people are fascinated by that because it's becoming increasingly rare. I mean, there's no serial killers anymore. All those Netflix shows, they're about people who've done this 50 years ago.

1:17:28So I'm part of the old school, I guess. I did this in the 90s. I'm one of the last dinosaurs. I don't see anybody else doing those things now. I don't see, I don't know, there's a few serial killers now and then, but it's less and less, and there won't be serial killers anymore in a few years. That's as simple as that because of police work, because of so many different things. So maybe, yeah, maybe we are in a generation that, it's a generation that is looking for something different, something intriguing. And what I have noticed is that, you know, before true crime was about, you know, more or less documenting reality, there was a lot of talks about the police aspect of it, the investigation.

1:18:26People were fascinated by that. That's the old school approach to true But nowadays, it's all about the killers. They're like rock stars. So there's, you know, there's something I've been saying for quite a while now. True crime now is a form of entertainment. It's as simple as that. That's why all the big platforms are investing so much in true crime, because people consume serial killer stories like they consume, I don't know, comedies or, you know, it's a product. It's a product. What did you think of Monster? I find it interesting and people tend to forget the name of the show, Monster. This is the thread, the silver lining between all those shows.

1:19:21It shows what it's like to be a monster, how you become a monster and what it means to be a monster. Whether you're a monster because of neglect in your family or because, in Jeffrey Dahmer's case, it's because these fantasies of owning a lifeless body that turned into a monster that made him kill. or like Ed Gein who was obsessed with turning into a woman. So back then he was into this fetish of wearing female body parts. The Enendes, the brothers, it's about, you know. Yeah, Menendez brothers. Yeah, Menendez brothers. It's about what, it's about greed basically. You know, what greed makes you do.

1:20:16and when greed turns you into a monster, the next one will be about Lizzie Borden, so it will be focused on female serial killers and crimes committed by women. They're not accurate at all. When you know the cases, there's lots of things that are fictionalized, but I still find them interesting because there's plenty of aspects in them that you see that it's done by something who loves true crime and just little details. And the performances are good. So, yeah. No, no, I'm not casting a stone on them. And I understand the popularity of those shows. At the same time, I don't understand it. because you would talk about Jeffrey Dahmer like 30 years ago, people would look at you like if you were a freak.

1:21:22Talking about Ed Gein, people would be just repulsed. But nowadays, it's trendy. What about Harold Shepman? Did you ever come across him, the man who killed over 200 people? Yeah, no, it's kind of difficult to get anything from him. It's a fascinating story. There's an entire thing about, you know, people who are in the medical field and who kill. Angels of death. It's a power trip. And I saw that when I was working in the hospital. Sometimes I would talk to nurses and some of them, they, you know, they put too much morphine or, you know, they like to play with medication. It's a kink that they have.

1:22:13So, I don't know, it's this feeling of having a, like a Roman emperor and deciding if somebody will live or die. So, yeah, it's a pure power trip. And there's a lot, I think it's, I heard that it's 17 % of serial killers were or have worked in a hospital or as a nurse. 17%, that's a lot. What about Jack the Vlapper? Interesting. Yesterday I was in East Ham Cemetery, the Jewish Cemetery. I went to the grave of Aaron Kosminski. You didn't fucking bury anyone. You didn't cut anybody out, did you? Do you get thoughts, though, because you've done it before? Is it a certain smell or certain triggers where you're in a grave again, you think I could dig them up?

1:23:06Now, I was asked to get the skull of a serial killer once by a well-known collector. And the idea was me to get the skull, and it was like some kind of repetition for another grave robbery, and it would have been the skull of Ed Gein. So there was a lot of money involved. it was tempting but uh yeah no i said i wasn't interested i was uh i was trying to have a low profile back then so and who was the men remember who was the men staff that used to get in the graveyards and steal the gold and rings from the the dead bucking hair american hair they killed people too actually well they say it in this do you think because they said it was for the money but was it though?

1:24:02I don't know. They worked with a surgeon, I think, to provide him bodies. So it was for money. I mean, back then, most murders, it was about getting financial gain from them. Did you ever hear about Bible John? He used to go to the nightclubs and then kill the young girls. Some say he was a police officer, but it was a very interesting one it's still one it's unsolved yeah unsolved yeah you wrote a book on russian serial killers yes i did like why russia because colombia and stuff like south america get real heavy serial killers there's a man called i wrote it down lewis garavito yeah i happened to talk to the guy who uh um assessed him in prison he did the psychological assessment of this guy in uh in colombia he's a german he's the he's actually the guy who identified the scholar hitler he was part of the team back in russia they identified the the jaw of hitler but he's a forensic expert and he went to colombia to interview garavito so uh no interesting case Russians there's more than 150 serial killers in Russia that were you know

1:25:31counted the thing is we only know in the west about 5 or 6 Chikatilo and a few others but there's so many other serial killers that we don't know much about because back then the Soviet press would not report the cases because of the regime. There's a huge true crime community in Russia. Few people know that. There's a lot of forums. There's a lot of YouTube channels on true crimes. True crime and serial killers. They are fascinated with serial killers, the Russians. so I had a few friends in Russia who contacted me and together we wrote several books so far I've wrote three books on Russian serial killers and another one on Sergei Golovkin who was one of the worst of the worst worse than John Wayne Gacy or worse than any other in the US why?

1:26:38he killed young boys like gacy except that he tortured them for hours even days he had this seller he would use a blow torch on them skin them alive make them kill each other horrific crime extremely horrific crime he would keep the skull of his victims and show them to the the new victims to just to to scare them and yeah very very very grim yeah yeah is that anyone who you would be wary of or scared of do you have fear no you don't have fear no no no no no like many uh people i fear disease that's all i fear and did you not do a spell with someone you put a card in their gut for someone else to get ill?

1:27:28Yeah, I did that. Yeah, yeah, it has happened. What spell was that? Oh, it's a Calabrian spell. Calabria, like the mafia. You know, it's a part of Italy where they use death magic, death spells, where I learned that from a witch, a Calabrian witch. So, yeah, I did a spell. I did many, many spells, actually, in my life. You know, the blood of murderers is considered as the most potential ingredient in death magic. It has powerful properties. So when you use your blood, I use my blood, I do Ouija boards, I use my blood on Ouija boards. And when I do paintings, I splatter them with my blood. It's a magic ritual in itself, using my blood and, you know, putting my energy in those objects.

1:28:34But yes, I've used my blood to cast spells too. How true is like black magic, white magic, Ouija board, how legit is it? Depends on who does it. Does it work? Yeah, yeah. If, you know, magic, at the core of magic, it's intent. if you're not focused enough and if you don't believe enough it's face it's face on in doing something it's like prayers when they tell you yeah i'm gonna pray for you etc it depends if they really mean it or not you know good energy bad energy just a matter of face if you do believe in what you're doing. And do, if you follow a certain

1:29:28path and certain rituals, etc., then you get results. Yeah, that's for sure, yeah. Do you have nightmares? No. Or do you thrive in your nightmares? Like, makes you happy? No, no, I don't really, I don't really dream. I don't really remember my dreams. When I was a kid, I was dreaming that I was flying over a graveyard. And then I landed in front of the grave, and I opened the door of the grave, and then there was like something evil that was unleashed to the world, and I woke up. And this is a dream that I met plenty of times, always the same dream. What do you think happens after death? I think we have a book I've read books so this is how I picture things there's a beginning there's several chapters and there's an end after the end it's just the name of the author that's left on the book nothing else I think your energy is still there and as long as people read the book they remember you so I don't believe in anything I've worked in Morgs for so many years I have never seen anything that makes me believe in the afterlife.

1:30:47And I don't know many workers who do believe in the afterlife. For me, it's energy. Your energy is still there. I do believe in the paranormal. I do believe that some things, objects, or places are haunted by the energy of the people who were there. Or, for example, I have an execution knife that was used in Congo for women who were found guilty of cheating on their husbands. So it's a curved knife. It's used for slashing the throats, and it's rusted with blood. There's an energy to it. It's the energy of all those women who were slain that way. you know, it's really bad mojo, if you will. You were friends with Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker.

1:31:45How did that relationship start? I sent him a letter, he answered, and then we corresponded for a while, you know. We had many friends in common, many pen pals in common, so he would talk sometimes about his prison life, sometimes he would send drawings that he made, and yeah, that's it. he didn't write very long letters very short letters and sometimes it was on and off I wouldn't hear from him for months and then I got a letter from him What do you actually think of Charles Manson? Did he ever actually kill anyone or did he get those women to do it? Yeah, I don't know I don't really know, I think it's a guy who was overwhelmed by the thing that he launched I mean yeah they were all talking about the revolution and doing this and that etc I think that maybe he didn't think that they would take it so seriously I don't think that he told them yeah go there and kill that you know woman and Sharon what's her name Sharon Tate maybe he did but he was probably completely drugged when he did it.

1:33:06I don't think there was a real like organized thing going on. Like the prosecution said in you know there's this prosecutor Bugliosi who wrote How to Scalto. It's a bunch of, it's a pile of crap this book. It's conspiracy theories and all this and all that. Really bad book. But it made him a millionaire. What about Henry Lucas? Interesting case. I don't think that he was linked to any satanic cult. He was talking about this thing called the hand of death without his tool. Some people will tell you that, yes, the hand of death was a thing that there was they were behind like snuff films, etc. and trafficking people from Mexico.

1:33:53There's literature on that, but I just again, two guys who killed a bunch of people and were kind of overwhelmed by all the attention that they got. And, you know, cops would come from all over the country and ask them to, yeah, did you kill that woman? And she was fine like this and that. And they would give them all the information and they would say, yeah. But, you know, between the two, between Dottie's tool and Lucas, I think the tool was the nastiest. And what about fish? Something fish? Other fish. Who's he? cannibal from upstate New York. He kidnapped young children, ate them. So, yeah, a very nasty guy.

1:34:42He was into SLM. It happened in the 1930s. So he was obsessed with Christ and suffering, and he viewed himself as some kind of embodiment of Jesus Christ. He even has his own kids to whip him with the cat on eye tails. And he killed this little girl, Grace Bad, and he wrote obscene letters to her family. So really awful case. How bad is the satanic rituals and human trafficking for kids to be used as rituals? Do you think it's as bad as what people think? I think it's secret societies under the guise of Satanism. So it's not Satanism as I define it or others define it. It's secret societies, really organized secret societies with links to the government.

1:35:42I cannot tell the names of those secret societies, but they're known by everybody. and two, and at the last grades, because they work in grades, for example, the 33rd grade, sometimes they have very dark intentions and they use tradition to as a way to

1:36:23express their darkest

1:36:28aspects, their fetishes. If they're into child porn, they use those rituals just as a means to achieve their goal. So, for example, I don't know, orgies and stuff like that. They will say, yes, it's to harvest this or that, etc. But it's just perversion. What about Bohemian Grove? Yeah, I don't know much about Bohemian Grove. It's the US, they have their own stuff. But yeah, I've seen a few videos. But America seems to be a hotspot for this sort of stuff. Yeah, well, yeah, you know. um uh again it's really rich people who uh sometimes you know they they want to spice things up so you know they get into this kind of lifestyle and uh do those things but um i don't think there's any spirituality real spirituality behind it what makes you happy now the fact that

1:37:45I progressed from being totally chaotic and totally unpredictable to something positive maybe people don't see it that way but I am in a position now where I can talk to people who feel a certain way, who feel those, you know, murder, demons screaming in their heads. And I talk to them because they approach me, they ask me, how do I deal with this? I have been wanting to kill people since I was a teenager. And how do you do it? How do you deal with that? And, you know, they come and talk to me when I do the serial killer exhibition, for example or conference and they they ask me all those questions and I tell them okay see it as okay it's a war it's you against the world but if you you know um turn your fantasies fantasies into reality they will win this war because you will be sent to jail for the rest of your natural life and they at the end they will win so just find a creative way through art of writing something creative that you know gives you power over those demons do you actually feel lucky that you never killed everyone in the morgue?

1:39:18oh yeah definitely because I wouldn't be here talking to you definitely plus it gives meaning to we're in the age of you know true crime as entertainment as I said and it's good that I'm here to remind people that those monsters that you see on TV, they're real. Sometimes there's nothing to do with them because there's no hope, there's nothing. It's only prison or death for them. But sometimes for somebody like me who was caught at a very early stage, there is still this possibility of doing something useful. This is what I do through my writings. I'm trying to find a way not to fit in, because I will never fit in, and I don't want to fit in anyways.

1:40:15I will always feel like an outcast. But it's just a way to help other people like me. and uh i think i achieved that goal so far did you ever take medication no i don't believe in medication they tried to give me medication but i don't like being drugged i don't like i don't drink i don't take drugs um it's not that i judge people who do you know but you can't Brother fucks you get used, you drink blood and eat bodies, you know. So, no, that is not for me. How would you be on alcohol, though? Could you be a loose cannon? Yeah, yeah. I had times in my life where I was drinking a bit. Like smoking weed or taking acid?

1:41:13Like, your mindset must have been nuts. No, just cocaine, not weed. I don't like weed, never liked weed. Cocaine, yeah. Cocaine, yeah, I liked cocaine. But alcohol and cocaine, good combo.

1:41:30But I don't think that I'm really different. The only thing that I'm really scared of, for me, for the results, are hallucinogenic mushrooms and, you know, yeah, I don't see myself on that. So do you feel now that you're actually preventing serial killers, if they can hear your story first? Oh yeah, definitely. I actually had the occasion to prevent things. And people have told me after. They have told me years after. uh oh yeah you remember that time on you were on uh what was it myspace yeah you were on myspace and we talked i was 21 or 23 back then and you talk to me and it made me think and now i'm happily married blah blah blah i get males like that i do get males like that but i also get the the opposite so what happened when you went to the grave in london i just wanted to uh get the energy the feels this is something i i still feel energies and if because it's still if this really is jack the reaper i wanted to feel the energy the the like it's like a battery i i i charge my battery with that yeah what about people who interview you a lot of must be scared there i've interviewed that many people man like just fucking water off a duck's back but you've done snipers yeah do you know what i'm saying i've interviewed hit men and um i've interviewed witches and stuff like i'm fascinated fascinated with it all but how is it when other people interview do you feel their sort of fear i remember one of my first interviews for tv uh in holland this girl she was she wanted to do a setup with wine red wine, me drinking red wine from a cup like a vampire.

1:43:31And the more we talked, the more she was leaning back physically. And you can see that on the clip. She's actually, body language is like this. So for me, it's funny. It's funny when I see that after, when I see the interviews, etc. Yeah, I can understand that. I get that sometimes. you know instantly instantly i i see in people's eyes if they know who i am or not you're going to get that though like i say it's not something that you talk about freely people don't know who cannibals are yeah you know so it's going wow it's the shock factor yeah you're going to get people thinking like why is this man even on a platform but if you're preventing serial killers and other murders then it's actually a good thing a negative to a positive what about vampires and witches.

1:44:23You don't really hear about that stuff anymore, but what do you think about them in the past? Do you believe that they were real? No, it's just legends. You know, back then in the medieval times where people were committing horrific crimes, they were called werewolves. You know, people killing other people and eating them. They were called werewolves. Vampires are the same, you know, it's legends. People actually were killing and drinking people's blood and and it became a legend. And I definitely don't believe in vampires in the sense of twilight and shit, you know, glowing in the dark, in the sunlight, whatever.

1:45:09There's this fascination that, you know, some people have for this character, the character of the vampire because it's the eternal life, it's sexy, it's glamour, whatever. I don't know. There's something very archaic about drinking blood, the taste of it. And it doesn't, I don't associate it with sophistication. like Count Dracula or whatever for me it's more like basics more like a caveman type of situation drinking blood and eating human flesh so yeah no I've never you know the name Vampire of Paris that they gave me I've always thought it was a bit stupid to be honest you know it's yeah does that not enhance your profile though where you're getting more fan mail because of that sort of mystery?

1:46:15Yeah, maybe. Maybe, maybe, maybe. People get an image of me that is based on this fantasy thing, the vampire thing. And now I look more like Nosferatu than Dracula. I mean, shaved head and all. So it's kind of difficult for me because I really don't relate to the mind. For me, it was a fetish. it has always been a fetish a an addiction and not not not uh not a role play where do you go forward for the future rafael so the next years will be spent touring with this circular exhibition around the world it was in the in uh in uh london last year and what is that for people who don't So it's a collection, mainly based on my collection and a few others, but there's a lot of objects from my collection.

1:47:17From serial killer stories, letters, but also objects, weapons that were used for committing crimes. And it's all the aspects of serial murder. so there's different categories. There's rooms dedicated to the main ones like Dahmer, Gacy, etc. So it's curated by criminologists. This is important to say because people think, since I'm associated with it, they don't think it's really serious, but it is serious. So we work with the people who are quite known in the field. For example, in Berlin, we are working with Dr. Marc Bennecke, who is a really famous criminologist. And we are touring the US next year.

1:48:11But there will be a smaller, normally a smaller serial killer exhibition still in around Europe for a few more years. And can you get into the US? We'll see. What's that shirt you're wearing? Is that Jeffrey Dalmer? yeah it's my uh actually it's my uh website where i sell my t-shirts etc and i use this face as the mascot the the logo if you will yeah how do you sleep now do you sleep okay i do sleep okay i do not dream i do not just sleep like a log what about relationships because you said you were you never you were kind of not a loner but you never really had anyone around you has that changed since you've made changes?

1:48:58Yeah, I'm married. Congratulations. Thank you. But that's all I can say. I never talk about my private life because there's consequences. How are you feeling today? I'm good. I'm good. I'm confident. I'm confident and I'm really happy that I'm talking to you. Did you ever think you would be doing interviews and documentaries and writing books with the life that you used to lead of Want to Kill People? Not when I was 17 or 19 because, you know, I was focused on what I was doing. So it was not like I was knowing that I was creating content for 30 years after, you know. That's not how I viewed things.

1:49:40So, no, it's weird. Honestly, I was in Brompton Cemetery this morning. and it's funny because the last time I was there was 35 years ago I was 17 and it was my first trip outside of France alone and I went to that graveyard 35 years ago when I was 17 so I went back there and see if that changed or not and it was the same of course because it's an old graveyard but yes it made me think about this all the things that happen in between. For anybody watching that's maybe having those thoughts that you went through, want to kill people, want to eat people, drink blood, what would you say to them? Talk to me.

1:50:34Where can people reach out to you? Where can people ask questions? Because like I say, this will be mad. The comments will be mad. People will respect what you're saying. People will be totally against it. This man's killed people. you get people like you but like i say respect for owning that respect for actually being truthful and going this was me but i've made changes now you're trying to help people but for anybody that's maybe getting contact how do they contact you i have um an instagram um nico claw at no official yeah no at nico claw underscore official that's my instagram other than that i have this website where there's a contact form, serialpleasures.com.

1:51:20This is the easiest way to get to me because honestly, Instagram, I'm overwhelmed with messages. So the contact form on this platform is the easiest. Yeah. Nick, would you like to finish up on anything else? Well, I thank you for inviting me first. And as I said, it's uh you when you you're you're using the one monster uh you're creating a monster and sometimes i feel you know like joseph merrick the elephant man you know i'll never be normal i'll never be you know people look at me they talk behind my back They see me as this weird being that is inhuman. But I'm trying. I'm really trying to be human in a way.

1:52:28What has been human to you? Listening, for example. When people talk to me, I listen. just before we finish up we actually spoke about serial killers that are all male but they actually released a movie called monster yeah um charlene ferron played her part unbelievable part she played like what do you think of that woman because she i think was abused and bullied and then just started killing all the the males she had a reason she had a reason she was treated like she had rage inside of her yes some of the victims did not deserve what happened that's for sure the rage was there it was you know at the end she got executed so did she deserve it some people will say yes some people will say no um she was a very twisted and complex individual uh i think that prison drove her insane if you see the latest interviews that she did she she sounds totally insane maybe she was don't know maybe the fact of knowing that you're about to die drives you insane no way yeah we're all going to die.

1:53:44Yeah. You know, Nick, again, thanks for coming on today. Thank you, James. It's been a mad story, a rollercoaster, but again, respect for your honesty, respect for trying to make changes. Again, Nick, where can people buy your books just before we finish up? Serialpleasures.com or sometimes Amazon when I'm not cancelled by them. But yeah, Serialpleasures.com. All the best for the future and I look forward to getting you back on again. Thank you, James.

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