My Life as a Prostitute Working in Britain's Most Dangerous Streets. - Joanna Warner Tells All

0:00An all-new season of the Hulu Original Series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. Four years ago, we were just making TikToks. But it feels like there are no friendships left in MomTalk. You act like you're better than everyone, you're not. I can't trust anyone in this group. She's just dead to me. There's so much the public doesn't know. Watch the new season of the Hulu Original Series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. For bundle subscribers, terms apply. I'm Glenn Washington. This is Snap Judgment from KQED.

0:34When everything is falling apart, what do you do? Hurricane Helene shut everything down. No roads, no cars, no way through. But his daughter was getting married. And somehow, someway, he was going to walk her down that aisle. All systems down. A new Snap Judgment miniseries from KQED. Tap to listen now.

1:06You can now follow me On all my social media platforms To find out who my latest guest will be And don't forget to click The subscribe button and the notifications Bell so you're notified For when my next podcast goes live

1:33and boom we're on and today's guest we've got Joanna Warner did I get it right? yes got it right I'm the best at what I do Jo I'm the best at what I do another fascinating story drug addiction grooming prostitution but the beautiful thing is you're here to tell the tale you're looking well I came across you from a friend Billy Moore who's a good friend doing amazing work always get love and respect for her, Billy. Of course, of course. He contacted you for me, didn't he? Yeah, and we've got it together. These stories do well as well because I think a lot of people do struggle. I think like yourself and an amazing girl, Charlotte, who I always mention.

2:11Yes, sinner. She was on the crack in the brown and she changed her life. Oh, yeah. And it gives people hope, inspiration. Maybe people don't think they're that bad because if you take heroin, it's the worst drug, it's the dirtiest drug, but an addict is an addict, you know? And it's just to give people hope and little telltale signs, a little clues how to make changes, a little techniques, you know, so I think these conversations are always important. Oh, definitely. Thank you for coming on. How's life now? Oh, it's pretty good. I've just done a degree, crime and criminal justice degree. I did that for four years.

2:45I'm quite glad it's over with you now because it was just constant writing. And I've got a dog that I absolutely adore called Vinnie. so he's he's been really good for me and my mental health and my well-being he is quite a controversial breed because he's an XL bully I adopted him and um but he's been great for me overall and he's really helped with symptoms of PTSD because no one's gonna come and try and attack with me inside of me but he has to be muzzled and I've had to get him exempt um but last year because I love working with dogs so much i set up my own little dog business so i got my own little doggy van and i take dogs to a field so they can all run around and i have some banned breeds so they can be let off the lead they don't have to be muzzled and they get to run free and the beautiful dogs you know they've just got a bad reputation or they or they end up in the wrong hands yeah it's nothing to do with the dog it's the owners i was raised with bullies i was raised with boxer dogs I've got two Rottweilers and the stares that they get in the park but yet you've got these little fucking tiny dogs and all they do is bark they cause the trouble and I feel like you would be more safe with the so-called banned dog that's ruthless than you would be a human being because of the stuff that you've went through and with dogs it's their actions that speak louder than anything it's their love the dog will be with you whether you're homeless a billion pound in the bank it doesn't matter the dog is always happy to see you You don't get humans doing that Humans always want something Humans are always up and down Dogs are just happy to see your ass Like when I drive home I've got a camera so I can see my dogs But when I'm at the bottom of my street About fucking 300 yards from the house The dogs are automatically up They can hear the car They've programmed their minds when they can hear the car Before it even turns the corner They just know you're there They know you're coming Yeah, so Vinny's just been incredible and when I have nightmares, I still have a lot of nightmares, I wake up and he comes to the top of the bed and comes right next to me so he's been amazing for my recovery to have Vinny and yeah I just love being around dogs because it's safer, even XL bullies like I say, it's sad that they be muzzled, you know, listen you're going to get bad dogs, you're going to get bad owners who've raised their dogs to fight and dogs are still dogs we're in their world we try and teach them not to do certain things but they're still animals at the end of the day of course they've still got that that sort of craziness about them if they wanted to snap they could fucking snap but I just feel as if no dogs should be banned I think there's the owners who should be banned they should deal with the human beings they were treating them but I knew one that got put down a few weeks ago and it's just really sad and I actually took this dog with me and it's been put to sleep because they didn't have it exempt to anything like that it didn't abide by the law and sadly it's been put to sleep so i hear that a lot did they not have the muzzle on it no no no i think a few things went on i don't know if they were looking after it properly what have you i've heard things so um yeah they've just took it and put it to sleep i don't think the copper's in his ass but you always get that one he'll still be looking out for it yeah for the muzzle or certain things like i can imagine the heartbreak of the coppers saying we're taking your dog oh god i would go to town i would do a fucking life sentence i would that's my brothers yes you know like people can say oh that's bad it's only a dog unless you've had a dog you don't know no you know you've got if these dogs would die for you so you've got to kind of do the same yes and it's obviously if you've got a bad dog who's fucking biting kids and other stuff listen I get that, yeah.

6:43Yeah, you have to take precautions and do things to kind of deal with the situation and what have you. Because if we can put down dogs for biting children, then we should be putting down paedophiles. Of course. For doing the same to kids, you know, for doing what they do to kids. It should be one for all, I think. Of course. If we can put down dogs, then we can put down paedophiles. Put down people, 100%. You know, some people shouldn't be walking these streets. No, of course not. Before we get into all the madness, Joe, I always like to go back to the start with my guests. Yes. get more of a bit of understanding about you where you grew up and how it all began okay so i grew up in blackburn um and i grew up in a in a council house there was lots of addiction surrounding myself and there was addiction within within my home with my father he was um alcoholic so at the time i remember my mum suffered with her mental health because what happened with my dad he was kicked out permanently when I was five but he used to always come back to the home and robbers and burglars house and just cause a lot of trouble domestic violence all that kind of stuff so my mum did her best she you know she worked and stuff like that but then she had my dad just coming in and causing chaos within within the house so he would he was still allowed to take because I mean in this day and age you probably wouldn't be but we used to go on grafting trips with him shoplifting my sister said he used to get us to shoplift I can't remember that because I remember I got to a certain age and I said I'm not going in with you but I'll wait outside so I used to wait outside for him a lot and then we'd spend the rest of the day in the pubs while he were getting drunk um in and out of prison I think looking back I took on the care a caretaking role with him so I used to try and parent him even though I was the child the kind of roles were reversed um so that was tough it was tough on my brother and my sister as well so But throughout this time, I'd try and look after him.

8:59I got to a point where I'd have to try and fight his battles because he'd get him picked on because he was dying in the end through alcoholism. He was slowly dying. So other people just going in and taking his money and stuff like that. And I was, what, 15, 16 at the time. I used to just... I was quite an angry young girl. So I used to try fighting his battles a lot. so yeah but he sadly passed away he was 47 and he was found dead in his flat so I was 17 and you know it was it was it was at a time where it was hard to deal with because there was no emotional support there so because I'd stopped going to visit my dad for the last six months before he died because I'd had enough I was really struggling with it all and I fell out with him basically so I left him and because I was so young I thought that's why he died because I'd gone off the scene and I'd stopped looking after him so blame yourself yeah yeah I don't now but that's how I processed it at the time so by this point you know years before I'd started smoking weed doing all that kind of stuff pulling whities magic mushrooms ecstasy then I remember uh 15 I was I got into Valium and I took a real liking to Valium and the feelings that I got off um started getting arrested probably about 15 you know in stolen cars and stuff like that and then drink come into play as well and that kind of didn't agree with me alcohol just did not agree with me so I used to get into lots of fights out night clubbing get into lots of fights and stuff like that so um an all-new season of the hulu original series the secret lives of mormon wives is now streaming on hulu and hulu on disney plus four years ago we were just making TikToks, but it feels like there are no friendships left in MomTalk.

11:17You act like you're better than everyone. You're not. I can't trust anyone in this group. She's just dead to me. There's so much the public doesn't know. Watch the new season of the Hulu original series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus. For bundle subscribers, terms apply. I'm Glenn Washington. This is Snap Judgment from KQED. When everything is falling apart, what do you do? Hurricane Helene, shut everything down. No roads, no cars, no way through. But his daughter was getting married. And somehow, someway, he was going to walk her down that aisle.

11:56All Systems Down. A new Snap Judgment miniseries from KQED. Tap to listen now. Yeah, quite, it's quite an angry young woman. So that with that, and at 17 I started smoking crack and heroin and this was actually before my father passed I was introduced to it when I was pissed out of my head so I was on a park of all places do you know like you do just drinking on park and that with your mates and I was offered it and it was a drug that I never really wanted to try um it was something where I'd look at people and I think look at them they're causing chaos in the area they're all burgling people's houses people are being dragged on out onto the streets through overdoses so that someone won't get arrested for injecting them so they drag them out onto the street leave them for dead um so it weren't something I wanted to become I didn't want to become like the other people I saw you know addicted to drugs but it I don't I wouldn't say it got a hold of me straight away but I tried to fight it and control it as much as I could for a couple of years so I would use it for four days and then have three days off four days on three days off and so I didn't pick up a physical habit but on the other days I would do another stuff like partying trying to steal people's handbags in the nightclubs all that kind of stuff so I suppose it was a problem but I didn't see that at the time because I thought well I'm not on a script and I'm not doing it every day of the week so and then when I was 20 I got pregnant and I used in the early stages and then I was able to stop and cut everything out you know thank god I didn't have a physical habit at that time so I had had my son and when I had him I felt like it was tapping me on the shoulder every day all day it just wouldn't leave me alone go and score go and score you can handle it you can manage it all that kind of thinking.

14:30The crack or the heroin? Both. Both. Both went hand in hand for me. Two different drugs though, isn't it? One's a high, one's kind of a downer. Yeah, but I think like... Did you do them together? I think Charlotte calls them snowballs. Yes. No, I always smoked the crack. When I started, there was no one really snowballing it, but I got into a mad obsession with crack pipes. so I would be obsessed with making the perfect airtight crack pipe but I think my mental health had gone as well. I had tried snowballing it but I preferred the feeling of having a pipe, being up there and then having a dig and coming down.

15:11How long would you separate them for? Well, in the end, someone timed me and it was probably about a 20 pound stone and I was smoking it for four hours because I was that wired and that insane off it and picking at the floor like a lot of people do when they smoke crack thinking that cracks all over the carpet when it's not it's bits duster what have you and then putting it on the pipe and smoking it and then I'd scrape the pipe it was just crazy. What was it like taking it for the first time? Oh gosh, a long time ago. How did you feel? I think the only way I can describe it is you get this rush through your body and you feel like your head's popped up through clouds and then your mouth starts to water and you get a bit of a sickly feeling but instantly you want more and you want more and you want more and I remember I was that obsessed with smoking crack I used to hold it in as for as long as I could like till I were having panic attacks um it really messed with my mental health the crack along with the other stuff as well but then when I have a dig I'd come down and I'd gouch out so I go from one one extreme to the next so was the pregnancy planned was it a boyfriend friend was a one night stand no it was one night stand it wasn't planned and then he was he went to prison for selling drugs so he wasn't present um i was in a mother and baby unit i had nowhere to go so homeless yeah yeah i had nowhere to go i've been in um refuges with him from a from an next partner so yeah it the worst the worst thing about my past is the part what involves my son and what he had to go through and looking back the places that he would be in the places I used to take him no no child should be around that and you know me as a person I was just talking about about my dog and how much I care for my dog and look after my dog obviously I do the same I'm a caring what I'm trying to say is I'm a caring loving person and I would have been a responsible mother if it weren't for all that but I also take responsibility for the situations I put him in and I think there's still a lot of guilt and shame around that I think that will always be there I think as an addict when you you don't have control over it when it has control over you you don't care about anybody but yourself it's a selfish thing but you just don't know what people are battling to then go to those levels it's not until you make changes it's worse because then everything hits you then you can see everything for what it is and human beings aren't that daft we know right from wrong, we know good from evil so when you do evil no matter how much drugs you take it's always in the brain somewhere you can't lock that away because eventually that door pops open and that's this the hardest thing i always say that about changes is the pain of the past and remembering what you've done remembering the shit that you've caused the mayhem and i think as well you can't in the moment in time when it's all going on you justify it well i still take him to school well and i remember i went to college as well so i was at college and using and i started degree as well and what I was using so remember I tried my best to do something but the drugs are just so powerful all that just goes um and takes everything away from you.

19:08You said you when you were 15 we spoke off camera when you were 15 you had an older partner who was sort of giving you drugs and grooming you yes yes um cocaine giving me cocaine and having me like a young girl on his arm taking me everywhere and he did give me the creeps but he had loads of drugs he was a drug dealer so I would go out with him but I remember one time I was given I think it was ketamine even you know it weren't really on the scene then this horse tranquilizer in it kept me and I woke up in my underwear and I don't know what happens still to this day so you know for young girls it's so easy I think when you've come from a broken home as well it's so easy to get groomed you don't see it like that at the time and I probably never heard of the word groomed till about five six years ago so I didn't know that that was grooming obviously I do now so yeah I think um that's when the men came in into play with my addiction and I realized I can get things out of men money drugs and that continued throughout my addiction but they're also getting things off of you and it's a negative exchange where yes you know what you're doing they know what they're doing even though it's wrong yeah you're still getting your fix they're they're manipulating your illness for their gain but you're also yeah manipulating your own illness to get your fix but what was it like when you found out you're pregnant what are you thinking then 20 drug addicts you know what i thought i thought at the time i thought this will this will serve me from all that chaos and drug using and getting arrested and stuff like that so I was actually relieved even though the circumstances weren't great I just thought this is gonna help me not ever use drugs again so you decided to stop while you were pregnant I decided to stop when I was pregnant yeah how long into it after the pregnancy how long after you gave birth did you go back?

21:28I think about three months it might have been something like that three or four months How was that when you you started back? I started back and it just progressed really quickly and I was suffering with postnatal depression at the time but but yeah it progressed really quickly and before I knew it, I was about, what, 21 and then I was on a methadone script so I was going to chemist every day with my son in my pram, getting my methadone. An all-new season of the Hulu original series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. Four years ago, we were just making TikToks.

22:12But it feels like there are no friendships left in MomTalk. You act like you're better than everyone, you're not. I can't trust anyone in this group. She's just dead to me. There's so much the public doesn't know. Watch the new season of the Hulu original series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus. For bundle subscribers, terms apply. I'm Gwen Washington. This is Snap Judgment from KQED. When everything is falling apart, what do you do? Hurricane Helene shut everything down. No roads, no cars, no way through. but his daughter was getting married and somehow some way he was going to walk her down that aisle all systems down a new snap judgment miniseries from kqed tap to listen now

23:04so yeah it kind of took a hold and then i was doing crazy things with people there was a guy and this was just before I started, because obviously I started prostituting myself, but this was just before and he'd just got out of prison for an armed robbery and I ended up going out with him.

23:31So him and another guy said, go down the beat, get in a guy's car, make sure he's got a nice car, bring him back to the house. I'll come through the back door and we'll take his money. so I agreed to it and I thought right okay I will do and I got in a nice car I got picked up pretty quickly I was young you know didn't look too bad anyway they've come through the back door and it all went a bit tits up really and they've kept him there they've tied him up they've gone to the bank we've scored we're doing drugs in front of this guy I remember after a few hours I were valid up as well but I remember I don't remember all of it and I have actually read an article recently to jog my memory but I went upstairs and fell asleep because I think I just got to a point where I wanted to remove myself I thought it's gone a bit too far here and then he's come upstairs and said tell him you're gonna get him done for rape if he if he grasses on us this that and the other so I went downstairs and said that and he grabbed my hand and he scratched the guy with my hand so he had a scratch from me they eventually let him go in the morning um took some sentimental stuff like a watch some other bits and decided to go and meet him to go and exchange the watch and other stuff for money anyway on response we're waiting there and then they came through my door and we're all um arrested for conspiracy to rob so they're there he he was recalled back to jail the other lad where um i just said that i've had i took him back for business he said joanna we know you're not a prostitute i said i've just took him back for business this that and the other so i went to court pleaded not guilty because he couldn't prove that i conspired to rob him i just took him back there for business but the other guy he was IPP'd and just done 14 years for that particular crime so I was very lucky that I didn't get done for that like they had and to be fair they took a lot of the um they're always going to hammer down on the male you know because the females it's not really going to be there it's not going to be there no you seem more as like the innocent bystander as well and and I just I think all women are innocent though all the bystanders do you know what I'm saying there's an agreeance there and you're part of it but they're more going to likely take the men down of course yeah so I was really lucky they they backed me up as well they really backed me up and you know I thank them for that and then one got out of prison and he died not long after the cancer so yeah I'm getting getting involved in dangerous stuff like that so he went to the coppers the guy the kid that I think yeah yeah well that takes a bit of balls to think I'm not accepting that because he's got a young prostitute.

26:48Yes. He's got the scratches. He could have ended up being the one doing 45 years. I know, I know, I know. So for him, he then goes, do you know what? Yes. Fuck them. I know, I know. Takes a bit of balls. Of course, of course. And I think he owned, he had his own business or something. He owned something, so he had a bit of money. But yeah, and I said to the guy, I said, don't go and meet him. I said, police are probably going to be waiting there for you. No, no, no. Anywhere they were. So yeah. But then again, where does it stop? does a guy get phoned every week for more money or else he's going to get exposed yes I think he was frightened to death which so you know frightened him too much absolutely after getting what you can the first night I think it would have been done and dusted but I guess everything works in mysterious ways I think pushing somebody with only a place they can go as the coppers is a different ball game yes of course I was quite fortunate there mason wasn't in the house he was with my mum but i still had custody of my child at this point so um what age did you start prostitution 22 what made you do it was it just no way out i was shoplifting all the time and just get you know getting caught like you do getting known for it um and i just i was brought up in the red light district so i i saw all the women down there selling the bodies and stuff like that and I remember as a teenager punters used to pull up next to me and my mates um you know it was just the area we lived in it mean it's wrong because obviously you don't pull up to next the kids you can see the kids and try and proposition them for business so I'd been brought up around all that and I'd seen the states some of the women had got themselves in you know especially with the drugs and that and I just was desperate I was desperate for drugs and I thought the only way I'm gonna get money for drugs is to go down there so it's like an industrial estate and I remember I'd be hiding all down the back streets he didn't want no one to see me but there was times people would see me and my brother would see me and start shouting what you're doing what you're doing and I'd be like I'm just going up here I'm just going up there I'm walking and I was clearly stood on the corner um and at first I got a lot of business um I got very early on I got assaults sexual assaults beatings I it didn't stop me from going down there it was strange it was like I was just totally detached from my body there's no fear there and yeah and then I'd start robbing them stuff like that getting chased by them one guy caught me trying to steal his alcohol and put a knife to me throat and then he put I managed to get my phone and ring the police and when the police would come to me they'd tell me to fuck off before they arrested me for prostitution so in certain situations you reach out to the police and out of fear come and come and help me I've got a knife to my throat I'm feared for my life and then they come and just give me loads of abuse so that was difficult because the police was quite nasty with us they weren't they didn't treat us very nicely they remember one screaming prostitute in my face um I didn't have a good relationship with the police and yeah that that was tough because no matter what they should treat me the same as anybody else I understand it's difficult because of what I'm doing and stuff like that but it doesn't give someone the right to sexually abuse me or beat me up um so yeah that that was tough how much did you charge 20 pound for sex and a blow job that's all they'd give they wouldn't give any more than that getting getting money out of these guys was tough really tough um and yeah i'd get myself into all sorts of crazy situations through trying to get more money out of them um i remember ones and what i'd do sometimes if i went off me on drugs i'd have two black cans like kestrel super strength but polish ones cheap ones and i'm down to them and just to kind of make me more detached from reality reality yeah you know it was it was hard so um i got in this car started pestering him for more money more money more money and then it took me up in the middle of nowhere up these dark lanes there were no lights or anything and um i got out the car to have a piss because i was pissed and i needed a wee anyway he's gone to drive off and leave me because he probably had enough of me pestering him so I um I jumped on back of his trailer so I jumped on back of his trailer and it was there was a wheelbarrow tied down to it and it was freezing cold it was icy it was winter so I'm clinging on to this um wheelbarrow and he's doing top speeds up this road and I'm thinking he's trying to kill me he's trying to flip me off back anyway i held on tight and after being ragged all around the top lanes he eventually drove into the town center and i could see heads going it's out there the woman up back of that trailer so just crazy stuff like that anyway i get sort of phone sometimes i had a phone and sometimes i didn't last the last incident in this incident i had a phone so i got phone to the police frightened to death again please come he pulled up in town center ran into train station and then again please come and said fuck off before we arrest you for prostitution an all-new season of the hulu original series the secret lives of mormon wives is now streaming on hulu and hulu on disney plus four years ago we were just making tiktoks but it feels like there are no friendships left in mom talk you act like you're better than everyone you're not i can't trust anyone in this group She's just dead to me.

33:30There's so much the public doesn't know. Watch the new season of the Hulu original series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney +, for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. When every role matters, you need a partner that delivers. AMN Healthcare connects you with 2-plus million clinical and non-clinical professionals across 100-plus specialties. Powered by advanced technology and AI, we help reduce costs, fill positions faster, strengthen workforce flexibility, and improve patient care nationwide. Any role, any specialty, any setting. AMN Healthcare, one workforce partner.

34:06Total support. Learn more at amnpartners.com. I'm Glenn Washington. This is Snap Judgment from KQED. When everything is falling apart, what do you do? Hurricane Helene shut everything down. No roads, no cars, no way through. But his daughter was getting married. and somehow some way he was going to walk her down that aisle. All Systems Down, a new Snap Judgment miniseries from KQED. Tap to listen now. And it was just really hard to be spoken to like that after something like that happening. It was just like, it filled me with a lot of anger and rage, to be fair. How many people are there? um it depends it's in the early days sometimes i'd get cars come in and they'd be four or five men in a van sometimes i'd be taken to bed sits and there'd be five or six in a bed sit in the later years once i've been down there for quite a few years one or two men a night sometimes times um yeah the longer you've been down there the less money you make and if you've kind of burnt your bridges with some of them they don't pick you up but there's a lot of there's a lot of game playing that goes on down there with the men and the women because it's it's i mean it's so degrading because they know how desperate you are for money so they'll they'll drive down the street they'll pull up and then you'll run over to a car to get in quickly because they want you to get in quickly so no one sees them or in case police are about and um then they'd like drive off so you'd run up again and they'd drive off again and then these guys driving around waving money about in their hands just like laughing and waving money about and then I'd get kids driving round throwing piss on us so yeah you get you get tret like you're the absolute scum of the earth sex man in a van oh yeah yeah and where would you go i'd just go in his van i've go in some bushes sometimes um i'd take him to places where i knew it was quiet and it was like down a little dead end road at the side of a building behind industrial estate units yeah car parks you would think it would just be one person you wouldn't expect people pulling up with six in a van yeah yeah listen it's seedy in itself of course it's a very low it's a very low grade do you know what I'm saying imagine you still have judges and high class people like maybe that sort of power and seediness but it's very low grade 20 quid it's the bottom of the chain do you know what I mean but there's not a disrespect or anything but there's levels you know from the high end to the bottom end but I just the six people in a van what the fuck do they get from that and they're not very nice when they come in in groups like that they're not very nice at all and they're really disrespectful was this white kids black Muslim travelers travelers yeah is it all different oh it's all different colors it's all different um all different yeah a lot of asian men uh they're the they're the bedsits that i'd go back to so yeah anyone and everyone really and how many men in a bed set five and six again yeah yeah again and you would just take shots each yes yeah and then to me at the time though that was better because I'm getting more money and the job's done a lot quicker and I'm not stood out on the streets as long so looking back I mean it's awful I can't believe that I used to do that but yeah I got more money so it suited me to be fair.

38:21There was protection for everyone? More or less yeah the odd one would pay you more if you didn't but most of the time I'd say about 99 % of the time in due protection but there has been the odd one How much would they pay extra? Probably a 10 or a 20 quid But then why the fuck would they want to be going bird cash? I know, I know That's creepy in itself You know what I'm saying? Someone who's a heroin addict I know, I know Yeah Hostitute Yes, I know Did you question your safety at that point? Or were you just interested in the money? I was just interested in the money I think I did question it but the money was more important than anything really anything about I just had no self-respect my self-respect just as soon as I started doing that my addiction my self-respect everything just went so low you know I look back and I'm a bit in disbelief and I think now I'm at a place where I've got good self-worth good self-esteem um I'm very careful who I go with I'm I've had one partner in the last eight years um and yeah I'm more what's the word I'm thinking of yeah reserved with that kind of stuff after going through all that and doing all that to myself when I came into recovery I was frightened of men I was frightened of going near a man so for a few years I didn't you know I looked after myself and I just worked on myself a lot of married men I believe so yeah yeah you can tell they've come home from work because a lot of the conversations were about the job so you know you make conversation oh been at work today and yeah you get all sorts and I'm sure I've had solicitors but they won't tell you that judges police officers no doubt in my mind have I have I had them kind of customers um yeah what's the least amount of money you took probably a tenner yeah that's my two where life does take you on that yeah that journey where the self-respect and the self-worth is completely at zero but you just want to survive and at that time that's only survival tools that you had i i mean survival is a good word because this is i'll i'll tell this story because it kind of explains how powerful addiction is so i went and did business with a guy down in some bushes and he started to be really violent with me while he was on top of me hitting me so I said if you don't get off me I'll scream anyway he started to strangle me and he frightened the life out of me I've had some dealings with people but he really frightened me started to strangle me and he weren't strong enough to strangle me so he put his hands over my mouth and nose all at the same time while a sexual assault was happening um fought and fought and fought him I couldn't scream because he was trying to stop me from breathing so eventually I managed to get him off me I went into like a total rage thank god I was able to do that and I didn't go into you know freeze or you know I went into fight mode that's what I'm trying to say I had to so he he was doing that to me I managed to eventually get him off me I started battering him in these bushes and then I went as far as to chase him and I managed to get his jumper off him and I ran to the ambulance station and I told him to ring the police there's a really dangerous man out there on the streets you need to get him anyway the police came and they wouldn't let me out the car and I thought this is strange they normally tell me to fuck off so they said please Joanna you can't you can't go back out there you can't go back out there so I'm in car with him they're trying to take me to the hospital but I refused to go to the hospital and after a while I said listen I'm not under arrest so you can't keep me in the car and they had to let me back out and I went straight back down the beat and got in another car to go and do business with another man and he was still on the loose this guy that's how powerful addiction is um anywhere he was found he was arrested he was on day release for prison from prison he was a paedophile and he'd been um assaulting he assaulted it was either two or three 15 year old girls on the canal so they were just walking home and he dragged them down the side of the canal and uh raped them and strangled them and i knew i knew this guy was dangerous i knew that but i didn't know all that till after the court so i went to court and bless him my mum used to find me and drag me to court or else i probably wouldn't have got there because of the chaos and stuff like that I'll I'll have been willing to go there but just because I was so out of it but anyway she she took me and um he first of all they won't bring his previous up and then it was retrialed and I was made to look like the perpetrator because of what I was doing when it happened I was made to look like the bad one I was made to look like I was trying to rob him and all this kind of stuff that's what he said but then they brought his previous up he had to plead guilty straight away because he'd done the same to these young girls so he was i believe he's still there this was about 10 years ago i think he's still there i hope he is anyway um yeah fuck him because obviously when you're doing that job i'd imagine you wouldn't be believed ever an all-new season of the hulu original series the secret lives of mormon wives is now streaming on hulu and hulu on disney plus four years ago we were just making tiktoks but it feels like there are no friendships left in mom talk.

44:46You act like you're better than everyone. You're not. I can't trust anyone in this group. She's just dead to me. There's so much the public doesn't know. Watch the new season of the Hulu original series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. I'm going to Washington. This is Snap Judgment from KQED. When everything is falling apart, what do you do? Hurricane Helene shut everything down. No roads, no cars, no way through. But his daughter was getting married. And somehow, someway, he was going to walk her down that aisle.

45:25All Systems Down. A new Snap Judgment miniseries from KQED. Tap to listen now. Nationwide is so much more than a great insurance company. They're one of America's largest financial services companies. just like I'm so much more than quarterback Peyton Manning. I'm also Peyton Manning. Insurance and financial services together, it's a masterpiece. Peyton Manning does it again. For your insurance and financial needs, Nationwide is on your side. Nationwide Investment Services Corporation, Ember Finra, Columbus, Ohio. No, no, you're not. You're just kind of like dismissed. and then i suppose it's gaslighting in it something's happened to me i'm trying to do something about it the the law is like meant to protect people yeah fly um but then they treat people like that just because of where you're at and what you're doing but i think what i've learned especially through doing my degree is what about the pimps and what about the punters why are they not targeted why are they not trep the same why is it just the women because if you're a pimp that's a worse a crime than actual prostitution itself so i learned that um my boyfriend was my pimp and was with him for nine years he was horrendous he was so abusive and you get that with a lot of the girls feeding the partner's habit a lot of coercive coercive control and stuff like that so he basically so he's classed as my pimp because he was profiting from my prostitution so if someone's profiting from it it's illegal and they're classed as your pimp I didn't know that till I did a dissertation on prostitution and the history of prostitution so that was a real insight for me and there's a lot of evidence and research done to say that the men don't get targeted it's just the women and that's always been the case was he a drug addict could take it as well oh yeah he was a drug addict yeah yeah and what about your son at this time my son had been taken off me when he was five and he was put with my mum so once he was taken that's when the courts obviously thought right we'll start sending her to prison now so that's when I started getting sent to prison What was it like in prison for the first time?

47:59When I first got there I saw all the women sat on the floor shuffling up the methadone queue and I remember thinking I'm not that bad not that bad I weren't actually ever there for that long so the first few times it was intimidating but I knew some girls in there so I seemed to do all right because I always knew someone and yeah it weren't it weren't the best experience and there's a lot of I think with women's jails there's just a lot of hormones and arguing and bitching and bits of threats and bits of scrapping and stuff like that it's quite an odd environment to be in where you've got like 400 women um but yeah how old were you when you first went in i was 26 when i first went in do you think it was easier that your mum had your son because then you don't really have that extra worry you know he's safe anyway so it kind of doesn't make you want to change that much i think it made me worse me son being tuck i mean rightly so i'm not saying he shouldn't have been took he should have been took but yeah i hit the fuck it button then i really struggled to deal with the reality of my son being removed and my son being so hurt by the whole situation as well and wanting his mum um but yeah i suppose it did make my using easier a lot easier so yeah retaking gear in prison i have done yeah took i've actually took drugs in I knew I was on a recall so I just took drugs in.

49:39How'd you get them in? Your ass? No. Oh that place? Yes yeah. How much? I only had enough for about a team and I had about 40 pre-gabs so quite a lot of pre-gabs just got me script so I went in and they could clearly say I had drugs because I was off my head. Everyone's rattling and I'm there off my head so um I were having a toot and that in there with one at girls and I think someone grasped on me because I could smell it so I got strip-stooed and I had it down my bra I was absolutely devastated because I was thrown straight down the block I spent six days down there rattling and that was an experience that I'd never want to repeat that was grim being put down there I think it's cruel putting people down there unless you're evil or you're a nonce or you're a rapist or something like that are you just coming out and then straight back on the game oh yeah i'd i'd i'd go into manchester i'd go grafting in manchester as soon as i got out the gates i'd just straight to manchester on a graft and then back to my hometown and um yeah score back on the game and it it got that bad down there where i was arrested for prostitution there was a crackdown in the area through all the alcoholics drug addicts prostitutes so i was one of the girls that was arrested and um put in the paper with my picture yes he is i could have died and um so i came out of court and covered my face up because i knew they were there to try and take my picture so i've got right out at town center um i thought i thought i'd lost him but i hadn't he'd got a picture of me and put me in the paper and um purpose the crime is purposely lighter in the streets with the purpose of prostitution and that's the headline so that was embarrassing really embarrassing at the time i didn't who wants to be putting paper for that but again i think it's quite dangerous to put people in the paper for them kind of things because it opens you up to more exploitation and predators because what happened as a result of being put in the paper was living in these horrible scummy flats in blackburn full of drug addicts and um the guy came up with his friend and said i've seen you in the paper your rent's going up and you have to pay with it through for sex you have to give me sex or else i'll charge you more for your rent so i argued the toss for myself well why is nobody else's rent going up i knew what he was doing and he just said yeah your rent's gone up so So I remember going to Inspire Drug and Alcohol team, telling them, because I used to have one-to-ones if I turned up for my appointment, and they're trying to persuade me to ring the police.

52:51At this point, I didn't want to ring the police for anything. I didn't want anything to do with the police. But adult safeguarding team got involved, moved me out of there, and then I was in a hostel for three years. So I had to leave there and then go and live in a hostel. So the guy you were renting the gaff from Yeah Was trying to exploit you for Yes Because he'd seen me in the paper What did you say? I told him no I didn't do And that's when I reached out And told Inspire And that's when they got me out of there But like I said They wanted me to meet police And who was this guy? He was landlord He owned the building How many was on the streets at that time When you were around?

53:34The girls that were down there every night like myself there was probably about eight nine but then you'd get the odd girl coming down once in a blue moon or once and then never going back down there but you got a group of us that were down there every night including mother and daughter so it was yeah what age was a mother and daughter prostitutes I think she was early 20s mother 40s both on smack yeah so heartbreaking that yeah really sad it's heartbreaking when you really sad when it's yourself you you kind of deal with it but then I know taking your child listen it's already bad anyway but yeah taking your daughter man and I'd imagine like people all men and stuff would have took both with them yes yes Yes, of course.

54:29They've had the same punters and stuff like that. See, when you're with the groups of five and six, were they just taking turns? What were the other ones doing? Were they watching or were they in another room? No, in the bedsets, they would be one room, one room, one room. But in the van, like when I've gone in the van, it's just they'd all be watching. Yeah, it was... That's fucking weird, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. That is weird. Yeah. Listen, everybody's got urges and everybody's maybe got fantasies and listen people deal with their stresses in a different way you know if someone's selling their body and someone's paying for it both are doing it together in my eyes you know if it's consensual in a way yes both are broken in a sense but to have a van full of five and six men I don't I can't understand that I don't get how the fuck somebody can sit in five, six vans when they're doing.

55:26You know, like it's fucking weird. Yeah. And I think what happens is the bee attracts predators. So a lot of these guys know they can go down there, treat you how they want and get away with it because majority of the time they get away with it. It was only that once where he was, the police were watching out for him. I knew they were. He was on day release. He was a dangerous man. He shouldn't have been on day release. Anyway, that's another story. And that's the only time the police ever did anything. Was that the closest you were at the death? Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have eczema.

56:04So I get how it can steal your time. But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about EBCLIS? EBCLIS, Lubrikizumab LBKZ, a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema. Also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies, EBGLYS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to EBGLYS.

56:36Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EPCLIS. Before starting EPCLIS, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Paid partnership with Lilly. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about EPCLIS and visit EPCLIS.com or call 1-800-LILLY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. This episode is brought to you by Palmolive. Family time isn't just the big moments. It's weeknight dinners, sitting around the table, everyone talking all at once. So when the plates are empty and the sink is full, use Palmolive Ultra.

57:12Palmolive's most powerful formula removes up to 99.9 % of grease, leaving your dishes sparkling clean. And the new convenient pump makes cleaning even easier, so you can spend less time tackling dishes and more time together. Shop now at palmolive.com. Dave Portnoy here. The wait is over. Football is here, and so is DraftKings. DraftKings is now live in all 50 states. One app, every sport, nationwide. New DraftKings customers. Sign up with code SPOTIFY. Spend$5 to get$200 in rewards within 21 days. Includes all markets. That's code SPOTIFY in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours. Gambling problem?

57:54Call 1-800-GAMBLER, 1-800-MY-RESET. Connecticut, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. On behalf of Boothill Casino in Kansas, FedTax Pass-Thru may apply in Illinois. 21 and over, void in Canada. Bet with DraftKings Sportsbook to get bonus bets that expire in seven days or trade with DraftKings Predictions to get predictions dollars that expire in one year. Event contract trading involves risk of loss. Predictions offer void in New York. Non-withdrawable rewards issued as$50. Click to claim every seven days for 21 days. Terms at dkng.co slash offer. Limited time offer. Nationwide based on sportsbook predictions and free-to-play sports contest availability varies by state.

58:29I think so. Imagine you've had a few scares. Yeah, there's been a few scares over the years. That, the knife incident, the back of the trailer, I've been robbed, beaten. I've had a car full of people come out and jump me because I'm on the streets, just giving me shit because I'm working the streets some of it I don't think I remember there's a lot of stuff what my memories kind of failed me on um recently stuff's been coming back to me so but yeah a lot a lot of abuse goes on down there and sadly a lot of the topic of conversation is who's done which guy's done what to whom and well stay away from him he did this to me and that's kind of the topic of conversation down there but there's a charity called ugly mugs that goes down there giving condoms fresh needles advice support and they're one the other women of which predators are about and which predators to watch out for.

59:37Would you get any demands from some of these men any weird demands kinks? Yeah so stamp on them with heels on the private parts doesn't you take money for that shit oh dear it's easy partner you're just kicking the balls fucking weirdos i thought that i thought all this this will suit me yeah you can do that all day long every one of you do that if you want um and then pissing on them i mean i was pretty shocked when i was asked to do that when he asked me about water sports I didn't know what it meant I thought it meant water sports out on the beach whatever swimming yeah

1:00:29and swallowing swallowing my urine as well so yeah you get something really strange like yeah I says that at the ghetto I was interviewing the day I think you can tell a lot by a person how they are in the bedroom their perversion their kinks they ain't normal listen if you've got a missus and you're trying water sports or whatever everybody's want to try things once whatever you know like it's weird but everybody's got their own personal little kinks and want to try stuff but I feel as if people can normalise things now and I think as if partners they feel as if we've got to be in this sexual world we've got to do all this mad shit I feel as if we're becoming so desensitised with porn I think people have become and lost what connection actually is of course because that must be painful being stamped on you know what was he just screaming i can't remember it was years ago i just remember going around back of these garages and he asked me to stamp on him i think he was making noises but he seemed to enjoy it so yeah weird and then yeah i've had guys right up until in his 80s doing business way so yeah.

1:01:42Did you say no to anyone? No. No, I can't say I did. It's mad though. It does take you. Like it's where life takes you and the journey it takes you where you completely think that's all you're worth. Of course, yeah. It's sad. It's a sad existence really. I know we have a laugh in that but when you break it all down obviously with losing your son and what you have to go through. It's just, yeah, you do questioning. You've got to feel sorry for these women. You've got to feel sorry for these men as well because a lot of them are just as broken. you know a lot of them are just as fucked up and people will point fingers to both the male and the female yeah of course you know but when did you start thinking what age did you start really thinking that I need to change that I need to make some sort of changes and why I've always thought and felt that and I've tried throughout the years got into a drug called pre-gabbling that sent me to a whole other level um pharmaceutical drug pharmaceutical drug it's for nerve pain so i got on it because i got a dvt in my leg so i started going to doctors blagging loads of tablets for it because they're specifically for nerve pain anyway um i carried on injecting in my leg and i've totally destroyed my vein in my left leg so this leg's permanently swollen my um my smaller veins i've had to expand and carry all the blood around so i started getting into them that happened to my leg started getting more and more tablets because my leg got worse i was then like i was just there sometimes twice a week blagging tablets off the doctors using every excuse i could come up with until i got 900 mil off him which shouldn't really be prescribed but again I take responsibility because I know that I was doing the doctor's heading every week demanding more drugs so I got on them started I don't think I'd ever had a full hospitalized overdose until I started getting into them so I would wake up in the hospital pull a drip out my arm and just go and score again um remember once there was a there was a guy who who I was injecting cordine phosphate with because he had cordine and we both overdosed together and he'd I'd woke up before him on on the ward and I've gone over and said come on we're going because he had money and I just took the drip out of his arm and off he came with me I was just quite ruthless at times um i just thought he's breathing he can come he could come with me and we'll go and score so i just used to leave and go straight to score even though i was still because they give you naloxone but the naloxone only kicks kicks the opiates out don't kick the pre-gabbling out so yeah that that continued and then i got to a point where i couldn't walk far so because I was out of it for years and I was spent a lot of time led down like just feeling suicidal all my muscles started to waste and weaken in my back so it was really painful to walk and then I struggled to go down the beat struggled to stand down there for long but people still obviously you'd have been out your nut with all the drugs but people are just still happy to pay you even though you were gouching oh yeah yeah they're not bothered dodgy leg everything yeah not bothered what state you in and i went really big on pre-gabs i just ate loads of sugary stuff i just lived off sugar for years um so i went really big on pre-gabs normally you see like your skinny junkie but but with them they sent me quite big didn't look great but yeah yeah you still get picked up but what you do as well you get certain punters that become obsessed with you and they think you do your boyfriend and maybe i led him to believe that as well so yeah so there you get your regulars basically but there was one regular who became really obsessed with me and he ended up moving himself into my flat um and my flat was a shit tip full of needles drug paraphernalia did you share needles i have done um with my ex but um i've got epc but i didn't know i didn't know i had it till about two years ago because right i've got the antibodies so i just thought i was i weren't able to catch it and then epc people came into this gym and i told him i said oh i've got the antibodies i i couldn't catch that anywhere and he said no that means you've had it I was like I didn't know he said I said seriously he said no you've had it you wouldn't have the antibodies if you'd not had it so I'm really lucky that I've not had to do no treatment because I've got the antibodies and my body naturally clears it so yeah shared needles um obviously I went injecting in my groin damaged destroyed my vein in my leg surprised it doesn't take your leg off well I'm lucky I've still got it and it and it and I go to the gym and it works fine it's painful sometimes it's like a throbbing nerve pain and all the blood doesn't circulate back up your legs properly up my legs properly so it's been hard it's been painful but you know I've done a lot of work on myself and a lot of fitness stuff and I actually do a sport called crossfit within the I must be mad I started doing that about six years ago that's been really painful a lot to work through but i'm in a lot of a better place for it so i go down there lift lifting heavy so i really built myself up to be the best version i can possibly be eating healthy all that kind of stuff i stopped smoking so yeah i've um done a lot to try and repair the damage that i've done to my body that's the good thing about the body it does repair itself obviously to a degree listen if you're injecting smack there's only a lot of damage done you know there's going to be so much damage done but the the brain the body it's such a powerful organization how it functions even when you get a cut how it can yes fix itself and it's just it's mind-boggling how the body it's really clever it's so clever because like i said the veins the deep veins gone obviously my arteries still there I don't know what to do without me, I'd probably be dead.

1:08:39But all the other veins are now working extra hard to carry the blood around. So, yeah, it served me well, basically. What was your darkest moment? Having that pun to live with me. He would sleep in my bed every night. He would pest me every day for business. And he made me skin crawl because he was there all the time. He would hide drugs all around the flat. and then I'd have to wait till he's told me where he's hidden for me to get him a bit sick and twisted really and that was my darkest moment where I could hardly walk my chemist the chemist for my methadone was like diagonally across the road I'd get there and back and I'd collapse in pain so that's when I basically just was so suicidal it was daily and I felt like I kept picturing myself in a coffin.

1:09:37I felt, truly felt like I weren't going to be on the earth much longer. I couldn't cope any longer with everything. So luckily I found the strength and the courage to get around the right people and start detoxing. So I started, I had to detox in the community at first because they wouldn't fund me for a detox in a rehab I had to prove myself I had to prove that I could stay out of trouble I had to prove that I could give clean samples I had to detox start start off a very long hard detox um and yeah I did that through fellowship NA I still do NA I went to rehab I went to a detox went to rehab and after nine long months of torturous withdrawals I was finally off everything but looking back my anxiety was horrendous I was having panic attacks lots of night terrors I still do but I can I can caught with him a lot better now um i was aware with furries for years i couldn't i couldn't like yeah grass come easy yeah i'd be like what i don't understand what you mean and they'd be saying something really simple to me and i just didn't understand anything so i started to educate myself went to uni started off on a foundation level so it's the easier level really struggled throughout I know everyone struggles with a degree really struggled I'm dyslexic as well but I push through and I'll be graduating in September so that's a real achievement for me I continue to do my CrossFit three times a week I go into schools and tell my story and tell my story of experiences with prison experiences for prostitution addiction um some of the kids actually identify through a parent or have lost a parent or have suffered an assault in some way shape or form so get a lot of kids coming up to me afterwards for just some support emotional support teachers there and that so going to prisons I love going into prisons um I've actually been in the prison that I've been in how was that feeling that was weird really weird I really enjoyed it though but it was a strange one but I I kind of struggled getting in there if you've been in there it's really hard to get in even on a day pass and I tried to get so you do like a service position like you know you're the chairperson and you go in the um prison and it's your responsibility to get people to come in with you and stuff like that but I tried for two years and um I did all the vetting I wrote to the governor and they still wouldn't let me in on a regular basis but they decided to give me a gate pass so that was really after two years of trying it was really kind of like nice to go in and and support the women and stuff like that but yeah i tend to do more more than male prisons now so they're letting females in to do shares and stuff like going to cat a prisons cat b cat c whatever i just go in and and um help the guys out in there many times were you suicide though were you always suicide though from a teenager yeah did you ever try yeah i tried we an overdose, I have when I was 18 and I was living in my own flat, it was my first property of my own, I actually went to hang me sub, I didn't go through with it, so I was suicidal from a young age really.

1:13:40What do you think the main indicator is, I believe obviously the family structure, the daddy issues, not having a stable household was a massive part of people's struggles but what do you think the main indicator is for people to really lose themselves? I think the drug abuse partners who you're with because the partners who I got with was abusive physically and sexually. So that combined with everything else is just, it's going to make you feel suicidal I suppose. Did you meet your partner in any? I've had one relationship, I'm no longer with him. The partner now, where did you meet him? I met him in recovery.