Salford Gangster One Punch Doyle Tells His Crazy Story

32:43Now, they was at criminality at its best. that before they were sweaty, they were out burrowing. This episode is brought to you by Palmolive. Family time isn't just the big moments. It's weeknight dinners, sitting around the table, everyone talking all at once. So when the plates are empty and the sink is full, use Palmolive Ultra. Palmolive's most powerful formula removes up to 99.9 % of grease, leaving your dishes sparkling clean. And the new convenient pump makes cleaning even easier, so you can spend less time tackling dishes and more time together. Shop now at palmolive.com. This episode is brought to you by PayPal.

33:27You know how a mom's bag has everything? Sunscreen? Snacks? A stapler? The new PayPal app is like that, but for your money. Shop, pay, manage your account, and earn rewards all in one place. And with purchase protection on eligible items, biometric security, and pass keys, you're protected at every step. Download the new PayPal app to get started. See paypal.com slash protection terms. All that then you went to the next stepping stone. And the next stepping stone was where in them days, if somebody was to get wages, they would go to the bank to pick up the wages. or a shopkeeper was to collect money all day, they would go to the bank to put the money in the night safe.

34:14We would be there waiting for them things to happen and we would be robbing them. And that's where I got involved with them because I was more or less, because of my reputation, as they was to grab the money and we had any superheroes coming, I was ready to, what do you call it, to stop them coming along. See, because everything that you threw, at a young age do you become fearless at a certain age in your life where you can handle getting punched, you can handle in a fight you can handle doing robberies does it just become so easy because all the shit that you'd went through as a kid Yeah but it's not only that I mean you come fearless then you think to yourself like this is what I am, this is what could lie ahead now what could lie ahead in them days there was no shootings forget about people being shot that that never happened for a couple of years afterwards in fact we was one of the i was one of the first to get shot at but it was um with a shotgun i had pellets at the bottom of my legs but in those years all you would get is a good hiding from other firms that's all you would get you'd get good hiding from the police.

35:33Yeah? You'd most probably have, you realise you might have, because of the snatches, spent so many years in the prison. So you accept what could be coming. And as soon as you've surrendered to what could be coming, the more fierce you are, the more uncaring you are. See, when you started getting a reputation of being a man who could fight, see, when people seen you, do you then become a target and be tested more because you were smaller than the man who was six feet, six feet one. In them days, because I had a reputation and because I was young, and now when I had a reputation, I had a following.

36:17Most of my life, I've had a following. Right, so these kids who, how can I say, these kids who are capable, and I know the way the mannerisms are, I'll be ready to attack them first. I'm not going to wait for them to attack me. I'll mostly be avert of them anyway. So I would be attacking them first. So my reputation grows. So on the odd time, people would want a straightener one-to-one on the odd time. But normally, when I used to go in a place, and there used to be four or five lads already known, we could be in the place two minutes, three minutes. Why wait for them? We'll do the onslaught first.

37:14And I realised, and that's been the path of my life years on. Could you read situations well, Paul, because of being on your own for so many years? Could you read situations well and read people well? It's part of survival. Yeah. You become aware. You've got hyenas around you. Now, say the likes of me, more so Paul Massey. The likes of me, Paul Massey, people with big names, they become what I would call a frontrunner. Yeah? Now, what I mean by a frontrunner, they could be 10. Being a football hurrican, hundreds of times I've ran in, to sound stupid, to 100 lads, 50 lads, because I know I'm a frontrunner.

38:06That's expected of me. So there's a firm that's there, and it could be 20, 30, whatever. I will steam in knowing the hyenas that are at the back of me will be steaming in afterwards. So that's what you do. You go in as a group. So you're well aware of the situation. Now, this was right before weapons come out. but you'll be onslaughtering him. Now, there was a, like, where we stepped the road of coming out of it, we started to do robberies. We took over our reputation group. Because of my violent attitude, all them wanted to earn money. I had the pleasure of having a fight. That's what I was cloned to do.

38:56I knew I could fight. but at the beginning everybody was like that to me as I'm getting older and having all these kids with reputations fight, everybody God, you heard you, you've just done he's this, he's that, you've done him in seconds, now my reputation grew so I would go into what do you call it, go into clubs, the doormen then would want to have it I would knock the doormen out my friends would do all the rest We were seeing clubs around town. Manchester then was run by a firm called The Quality Street. They started a union off where all the doormen got together. And if one doormen had a problem, they all had a problem.

39:44So then they wanted to come down to show us what they're capable of. They come to Manchester, lads, coming to Salford is stupid. If you're in a pub in Salford in them days and you're from another area, you stood out, don't matter how big you are, whatever, and you come in and you had a bit of a problem, everybody in that pub would attack you. Makes no odds. Even the women, the old women, the old men would be hitting you with bottles. This was just a no-go area for the other people, Salford, in them days. Now, we was in there when Prince Charles was getting married. the day of Prince Charles getting married.

40:30Five or six big heavyweights, part of a firm that was connected, that wanted to teach us, because there had been a menace around Manchester, come down. They come in, pulled, said there were six of them, five stood at the bar, one come over to where we was, me, Massie, Matt, Garnavi, whoever, Rob Mays. So they come over to us and said, look, one guy come over, he said, I'm sick and tired of you, to what you're doing, you're messing about. So a kid called Matt Carr told him to F off. The F word, fuck you. It happens. This is what our generation is. It doesn't matter what these other firms are capable of, F you.

41:20It doesn't matter what the police are capable of, F you, the system. Then this guy potted my car. We then, me and my other friend, attacked the five big guys at the bar. The guy who did the potted ran off. Massey and his firm chased after him, beat him up, picked him up, threw him out of bus. More or less, the police come, they've done the policing. Now, I'm in the pub battling, I've been seeing. They get charged with a Section 18 and attempted murder. Massive, they all get a guilter. Now, the day of the trial, they're all going, not guilty, obviously. The day of the trial, the wife brings the husband in, in a wheelchair, and says, I have to dress my husband every day because of these bastards, blah, blah, blah.

42:20they get a girl to you get five years because they're only young kids five years in them days was harsh I was 21 round about and Massey and Navi and Matcar they was round about 18, 19 yeah now I was the one with the reputation as a fighter they're criminals Massey was one of the most criminal minded kids you would want to meet he's not fighting stature, but his game. He would attack five or six screws by himself. He's like a Jimmy Boyle, exactly the same. He's fearless. Now, when, but he had his firm around him. He had a firm of hyenas that was the worst on the planet. Now, when they got the five years and the wife said, I have to dress my husband, yeah, Massey, who got the five years, while he was doing the five years, yeah, he appealed.

43:19then this guy who was in the wheelchair four months after he made a film because he was a martial art expert doing conferring the film Massey exactly Massey gets the tape takes the tape to court and said this is the man that has to be dressed every morning jumping in the air four foot kicking somebody in the head how can that be so Massey won his appeal then when Massey come out they all clipped together again. Then Massey had a new what used to happen. Now, I've always been involved with United. This episode is brought to you by Palmolive. Family time isn't just the big moments. It's weeknight dinners, sitting around the table, everyone talking all at once.

44:07So when the plates are empty and the sink is full, use Palmolive Ultra. Palmolive's most powerful formula removes up to 99.9 % of grease, leaving your dishes sparkling clean. And the new convenient pump makes cleaning even easier, so you can spend less time tackling dishes and more time together. Shop now at palmolive.com. This episode is brought to you by PayPal. You know how a mom's bag has everything? Sunscreen? Snacks? A stapler? The new PayPal app is like that, but for your money. Shop, pay, manage your account, and earn rewards all in one place. And with purchase protection on eligible items, biometric security, and pass keys, you're protected at every step.

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45:36Now, if I was to explain in the 70s, what used to happen is you used to be able to pay to get in grounds, football grounds. So United, being the biggest supporting club in the world, don't know about Glasgow or Rangers, but being the biggest supporting club, they used to check 20 ,000 plus to every away game, right? Now, 90 % of the people, 99 % of the people, you talk about being a hooligan, they just think getting another fan, pulling his hair down and volleying him in the head to be screaming for his mother, whatever. No, but it wasn't about that. If people like me used to see it as a graft, where you would, they had football specials.

46:26There used to be 1 ,500 on a football special. all that week it'll be in the papers around them surrounding areas United's Barmy Army are coming to town they're going to let the place whatever we used to go there during the week suss out where the jewelry shops are where it's worth jumping over the counter looking for places with money so when the football special pulls up you'll have 6 ,000 hooligans from the surrounding areas waiting for United fans then these United fans will think 1 ,500 is not good enough they'll wait for three more specials to come even the Cottonys used to bring so many football specials they could bring five specials then when they're out attacking the other 6 ,000 attacking 6 ,000 or 7 ,000 we will be over the counters and you'll be doing jewelry shops when we started to go abroad we'd done a jeweler shop in Amsterdam worth for 2 million quid it was big news then because that would have been about 20 million I mean but that would have been about between 200 people the whole everyone was there just to do the jeweler shops that's what you weren't looking for now the Scousers because they were there was always in Europe in the European Cup they used to go over with visa cards it's what you call kiting.

47:58Now, if you get a bent visa card and you go in a shop, buy something with it. Now, in them days, if your signature matches on the visa card, they normally let you have whatever. So you put it in breakthrough it, it takes off the other person's signature, you could put your own signature on the visa card and buy in this contract, they would only allow you to spend, to buy something for£20. In Europe, if you've got a passport, with the same name obviously, they would allow you to spend£400,£600, because you've got proof of identity. Now you could get year passports in them days, so we used to send people in, get the passport, take a little picture off yourself, put it on that, So Massey come out, so we started to hit Europe doing the kiting.

49:01Now, at first Massey went over with three or four lads. On one occasion, 20 Salford lads went over there to Europe. First of all, we hit Brussels. Within two hours, we've kited up half of Brussels. Then you would also go over to do sneaks. Now, Brussels and Holland, all over Europe, was very trustworthy. Now, you would go in the shops, the duro shops, all they had was curtains. So you would have one of your lads chat to the owner and you would be able to, like, try and snide the gold watches. Over there, the gold in them days was all nine carat over in England. The orexes was the silver orexes with a little gold in the middle.

49:50But over there you had 18 carat gold, which was unheard of in England. So as I was in Brussels and they had an account, I tried to steal, clumsy, the 18 carat gold. The owner come over, whack, knocked him out. We realised the shop is ours. So we emptied it, 200 grams worth of gold. Then we decided, because we wasn't part of the EU then, if you went from one country to the next, the police then couldn't go into that country. So we went into Holland. We go into Holland, we all got the suitcases come out, you know the small suitcases with wheels, they come out. We all had got the best of clothing, even the fashion.

50:37Of course, T-shirts you couldn't get in England, but Europe was two years in advance than us in clothing fashion. so then we used to just go over there for the fashion now we've got 200 grams worth of gold we've got thousands of pounds worth of clothing the best of fashion we then we started to hit the bars and when we was in the bars what happened was every one of the girls over there buy you look you could buy them little bottles of champagne that was their blog so they must have got wages if you're buying them bottles of champagne. So one of the kids said, there's my card, American Express just come out.

51:19There's my card, American Express. I'll pay for everyone's. As they're enjoying themselves, I look behind the party, the cash box. So no matter how much I've earned in the day, I'm a grafter. If I say a cash box, I'm going to try and graft it. Me and my friend, yeah, did the cash box. Got it, got off. The doorman went out, come back with a gun, because they knew that the massive firm was all capable, pulled the gun on massive firm, right? Yet again, there was it all ready. The doorman had an onslaught, bottled to death, had the gun took off them, legged off. That was the first time anybody had one of them, yeah?

52:08Legged off. Then we went into Germany from Holland because we knew the Dutch are now on our cases in Belgium, France and Holland. We go into Germany. I decided to send my stuff home by post. So instead of taking it through the customs, I sent everything home by post to my mother's house, whatever, my girlfriend's house. they all decided to kamikaze it, flew it now there's a kid called say Ashfield a kid called Ashfield on the train to where we're going to the boat or even on the boat before we hit customs he went to the toilet everything was thrown in his suitcase yeah he also even the gun we took off the doorman was in his suitcase and when he was walking through the customs he's like that is anyone going to search me as loud as he can but they just let him go, they knew he was an idiot just let him go on the train back to London everyone's demanding, he knew he fainted when he was all demanding the stuff back but that's how it was You can tell you're a proper grafter though Paul because every time you've got gear or money in your trousers you're always trying to think of a way how to get it home I keep it yeah that's what I call it in years to come when people were doing drugs they started to send drugs home but I was one of the first to realise that was the method to send it back but the poor the English police knew what we did the English police knew that doing shootings they knew the strength of what we was about they put the biggest operation on us England's known Do you think they were making too much noise too young?

54:16Yeah it was more or less down to what they call it, they hated Massey Massey more than anybody else because he was like an organiser very very very criminal minded more or less because of what he did when they threw the guy out of the bus and they beat the police up. They knew what this firm was about. The MacDonald brothers, yeah, they used to do robberies, the first ones to pull them out on robberies. There was a game as they come. When they was even one or two times when they was put on remandage, strange ways, in them days, the walls was only half mass. And nowadays, if you see a strange way wall, or prison wall, they have a bubble over it.

55:05In them days, it was half-mast. We used to put ladders, because we never lived too far away from Strangeways, at the back of Strangeways, where there's a small wall, up against the wall, rope at the top of the ladder, so we could go over, break in Strangeways, run over to the windows, pass the weed over. People started smoking weed then. Pass the weed over. Brussels clean up nicely at Sweetgreen. Maple glazed, roasted, and edges perfectly caramelized? Sweetgreen's fall harvest is back on the menu, and the season's most overlooked little green vegetable is dressed to be devoured. You know what to do.

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56:52Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. And then go back to the rope, over. Now, on one occasion, Massey decided to escape. He was on remand, yeah, doing petrol. He decided to escape.

57:31The kids went over, passed him a saw. He sawed the bars, yeah, got off, him and the cacón navvy, run to the rope, come on top of the screws, they let the dogs out, and then he decided to go on the roof and protest about spending too long on the remand. Now, that's what Massey was about. The half killed him, what do you call it, when he come down. And even again, he even had somebody to go over the wall. And he even tried to escape on Christmas Eve. Very unlucky again. What was it like being a football hooligan? Did you enjoy that period? And not only did it, of course, I had two sets of friends do their hooligans.

58:18Now, the lads are hooligans where you can, why they're hooligans? You could just have normal nine to five lads, right? They will have a nine to five job. They dress the part, they look the part. If you were to turn around and say that that person is a gangster and that person is a hooligan, 90 % will say the way the gansers are dressed, they're hooligans. And the way the hooligans are dressed will say they're gangsters because they're all designed up. They're all like professionals at violence. where even one time where I think we was playing Everton once and we're walking down the road. This is in a book.

59:06One of the Everton immigrants wrote a book. And he said we was playing Manchester. And this is his words. He said we was playing Manchester United. He said, Norman, when people come to Liverpool, he said, when we run at them, they run off. He said, now on this occasion, there's 50 of us, this is his words, He said, we was running at this firm of United fans. And he said, they wasn't budging. He said, we was getting closer. He said, he said, he was thinking in his head, what's this about? How come they're not getting off? He said, then he come up close to us. He said, he steamed us. He said, the next thing, he's knocked out.

59:47Right? He said, then he find out one of the United fans told him after the game, don't worry, the kid who knocked you out knocks everybody out. and that's where we've become very professional, more professional in virus with them. They would do the gangsters, but they wouldn't go to the next level. They would do them on a night out, but the gangsters would go through the front doors. Who was the toughest phone you came up against? Oh, God. You couldn't... Back when? No, there was a... You could go back to the earlier days where you could go against Newcastle and say that the fencing's there, the gates were separated by fencing.

1:00:33One Geordie... I don't know if it's a sign of bravery, I don't know. One Geordie would get on the fence and jump over into all the United fans knowing he's going to take a kick in. He was fearless. He was fearless. but then you would have Leeds fans. Now, a Leeds fan have been arrested and more or less done in a couple of times in Leeds. Leeds fans, if they got a charge sheet and it was against Manchester United, they would pin it on the wall proudly that I've been charged fighting Manchester United fans because they hated us more than anyone. Why is that hatred so strong between Leeds and Man U?

1:01:13Well, because of the numbers, I suppose, because of the numbers. United hate Liverpool more than anyone. Now, I used to think it's down to the violence. Now, when I say United hate Liverpool, I mean, I'm not just talking about on the football field. You couldn't, Liverpool wouldn't come into Manchester in the early 70s or early 80s because they'll be done in. It'll be vice versa. so mancs couldn't go into Liverpool. They wouldn't mix the scousers and mancs in prison. One time I was in a prison called Lindholm. Not one scouser was in there, and there was a riot. But the people was running about looking for scousers.

1:02:04Not only was he running about on the riot looking for nonces, he was running about looking for scousers. And that was the hatred. And what it all becomes about, and I don't know if people don't know this, It come from 200 years ago or 150 years ago when Manchester was blackmailed by Liverpool because we had to buy the cotton off him. So Manchester got 20 ,000 navvies to build the Manchester Ship Canal. They built the Manchester Ship Canal. At the end of the Ship Canal is Salford. Now that's where my ancestors come from because the 20 ,000 navvies turned Salford in the biggest shithole on the planet.

1:02:46Now, that's why Salford has got a lot of his roughness already. He's got a lot of Irish community. What age did you first go to the adult prison? Well, I was in the adult prison when I was 12. I got put in the adult prison. What? Yeah, because when they had the fight in the reform school with the girl, they didn't know what to do with me. They can't just send me to another reform school and send their problem on, because I was in a special unit. So they couldn't keep me in this special unit, so there was no other special unit in the north. So they didn't know what to do with me. So they sent me to, what do you call it, Lisbon.

1:03:29Now, I was only small, yeah, so I was in Lisbon. Now, I've never forgot it. Now, when you land in prison, the second day in there, your night after being in the cells, you go and see the doctor. Because I was like that, and everyone was big cons. I'm seeing the doctor, you're in the room with all the adults, yeah? So I was in there, and everyone, all the big cons, was laughing to see me at such a young age. So one of them went like that. He said, come over here, sit on my knee and earn yourself a Mars bar. Now, everyone started laughing, because it wasn't like it is now. I was thinking, where is that joke?

1:04:13Earn yourself a Mars bar. For years, I couldn't figure out. I know he was messing about what the joke was for years. When did you get your first sentence as an adult? What age? I got my first sentence as an adult when we did Europe. Did you call it? No, they did us for doing the National Clearing Banks. And when we did, because we was going over with visa cars, I got four years. At first, I got eight years, which was ash. But then the next day, they brought us back to court and dropped it to four. Best feeling I've ever had in my life. But Massey got six years. I got four years. The other thing they were saying, it took like 30 serial writers in all the papers, England's biggest operation on us.

1:05:04and when I went into court they even said to prosecution this man's the tip of the iceberg it was the first time I went over there you couldn't think of it where did you do your floor? when when now when I was having problems with the quality screen was that Jimmy? Jimmy was the boss he wasn't the one I was having problems with they're on a step above in Vinnie Scarborough on another level yeah they were all proper yeah they wanted bowing in front of right but all their firms lower yeah where they all started to do a union they was all connected yeah now there was a couple of clubs around town because when Massey got put away for yet again when Prince Charles was getting married when he was doing his five years everyone started to come for me.

1:06:06So I knew we had a problem. I was walking towards the pub with my girlfriend. Outside the pub, there was a Rolls Royce, soft top Rolls Royce, big guys all surrounding it, starting all pointing at me. She turned around, the missus turned around and said, run, I was already gone. And that's when I heard the blast, where I felt the pellets at the bottom of my legs. I was the first person to be shot. Now, then every club after that, every club I went in, the doorman used to say to me, Paul, please do yourself a favour, get out as fast as you can. I was only young in my early 20s. when I used to get out for the fire I see cars spin up so then the guy who more or less was running this firm was after us he, I went out to one of the doormen can't you like sort it out with him, he said go down he was doing protection work at Arcade, he said go down to the Arcade on a Sunday and you'll have a chat and we'll finish the problem off.

1:07:17So I'm thinking, I'll go to the arcade, get myself a good hiding, yeah? Then I'll be able to go to clubs without cars pulling up and that'll be the end of it. So I went to the arcade, said to this guy, right, where are we having it? Yeah? He stood up, but I'm not waiting. Somebody stands up, right? So they give him the onslaught, knocks him out, ask anyone else. So that more or less thing. So then I knew we had a problem. Put a van through a couple of their clubs, shot a couple of doors off with a shotgun. One of the most exciting things I've ever did in my life. Even when Massey come out, we still had a bit of a problem with him.

1:08:01Now, we took over this yard, what was connected to them, yeah? I then knew, got myself another shotgun. you couldn't get handguns in them days and to get a shotgun you had to see loads of people knew nothing possible to get hold of but I had a shotgun mentally knew that I must probably sometime in my career I must probably end up with a life sentence so why not begin it young I was ready to I surrendered to myself what was going to become of me so nothing else fearless nobody knew what a ballet was nobody knew what gloves was right there was no nothing to say nobody knew nothing to say in the police station no suit it is what the police used to do just give you a good hiding and verbally say you confess to whatever when you've not even seen the interview room that's how corrupt the place was so anyway i was there ready to to shine yeah ready so my days come waiting for this thing to whack whoever went out.

1:09:12But Massey went to see the main kids. The main kids, he said, look, this lunatic's ready. Let's sort it out. Then it half sorted out. So I had a meeting then with Jimmy Swords. Yeah? When I had a meeting with Jimmy Swords, he said, look, we know you're a loose cannon, blah, blah, blah. We're going to give you the VIP treatment at certain clubs. But do us a favour. Stay out of these other clubs. which answer was like the ride of falling and yeah we'll we'll blossom so when I first landed in the in prison Jimmy Swords got me a job on reception so he looked after me Jimmy so that was it sorted then was that it smoothed over yeah so what did you do when you came out well when I come out I was I was 30 years of age when I when I was in in the system because I've always been into my fitness, yeah?

1:10:12Because I was naturally stocky and they say big arms or whatever. I didn't have to do weights. I've never lifted more than 40k in my life. You didn't think, you'd think differently. Yeah, because my dad was a big Irish guy. Yeah, I mean big, yeah? 62 inch chest. The old-fashioned armchair, your grandmother's armchair, was a perfect fit for his coat. He could put it massive, that broad. So anyway, so I've had a natural fit. So all I had to do was keep my fitness up to get a good physique. So every prison I've more or less been in, even at old age, I've always had a gym artist job. Thousands of burpees, thousands of sit-ups, press-ups, unbelievable.

1:11:01Now, I even think I can break the world record on certain things, sit-ups and that. So when I was in Lindholm, I had a gym artist job. But I had to put lines on the outside field, which was locked, the outside football field, which was locked. Now, I had my missus come up, throw tennis balls over with weed in them. Again, one of the first to fall over the fence. Then when they opened up the fields to walk back into the prison, I was giving somebody to sell out I was on like£1 ,000 a week if not£1 ,500 which is like£6 ,000 or£7 ,000 now so I come out to big money when I come out Massey also come out now Massey spent most of his 20s in the system so mentally Massey they say the system keeps you young yeah Massey come out with the mentality of a 20-year-old.

1:12:05He started to hang about with a young firm from Oddsall. Salford have many areas, and one area doesn't click with the other areas. It's professed, but that's what happens. Weed has just come out, cannabis. People were starting to sell it all around Salford. he used massive firms into our area he's got himself a new young clique people in my area are crying to me about this firm from Oddsall coming in we get, say right, we'll meet them on the Sunday night in the pub they come down we had 120 lads there waiting 120 Budweiser's getting thrown at the door one of the most aggressive battles you've seen.

1:12:58Half of them got off. Two lads got shot the day after. But that's when our far out begun with me and this other firm. I wouldn't say Paul Massie because I would never throw punches at Massie. Not out of fear, because I feared no one. But I would, because out of friendship. And we had that sort of click throughout our lives. But his firm despised me. They were a lot younger. They despised me. But still, at any age, I wasn't ready to bow. In them days, you pick somebody that's reaching 30 years of age. When I got put away just before I was 27, and I knew I was coming out when I was 30, I was thinking to myself, God, my life's over.

1:13:47But you don't realise how young 30 is. So that's madness about it. How was that when it started to tear apart with you and Massey? Were you just thinking, fuck it, just got on with it? Was it upsetting you, the way things were going? No, because I was too professional. We were both professionals of violence. You, me, even these young kids now that are going about now, we open the door for society now. Our society now know how to play the game. I mean, it's facts a hundred times better than us. A hundred times better than us. But we was the first, and we knew what we were both capable of. Yeah?

1:14:32I had no fear factor about anybody. I've accepted that I could go on the battlefield, get took out. It's what you accept. Everybody used to, as a young kid, I used to always dream about going the same way as John Wayne did. That's what you accept. You accept the battlefield. You accept being locked up in a cell, being able to do your burpees, being able to do your step-ups, your sit-ups. You accept that. You get through it. So you have no fear factor about violence. Now, when these young kids who are just learning that, you can't put a whole dead on young shoulders. Now, like I said, I'm a front-runner.

1:15:18Now, when I see this other firm from Oddsall that will terrorise half the firms in the northwest, but they never terrorised us because we knew what they was about. So I would go in first, then my hyenas would follow. When I say hyenas, these are like my best mates. I mean, what do you call it? I mean, Asher, who I loved, one of my partners, six foot two, who are always there with me. At one time I seen me, he said, Dora, I'm at the side of you. What are you doing at the side of me? You should be in front of me. That's how it was. But then you're not, when you're talking about a pub fight, what do you call it, a club fight, nobody will put a Budweiser down to hit somebody.

1:16:07That was the most common weapon on the planet was a Budweiser bottle in them days. Then people brought out the shooters. I remember having a argument, the day we done them in a pub in Salford. The next day, a couple of shootings, a couple of people got legged off either way. Now, the next day, I'm arguing with massive lads. There's four cars of them. I've got a friend in this car. I'm standing at the back of the car arguing with massive lads, knowing nobody's going to shoot me above the waist because nobody got took out. They would only get legged off. So I'm standing where my legs are not seen.

1:16:51My mate, because he bottled it, drove off. Left me there. Oh, didn't they? But they knew because I've got seven brothers, six brothers, one half-brother. They knew that I can fill two cars. They knew if anything happens to me, they had to leave Salford. And not only did Massey have a fan club, I had a fan club. In fact, I had the biggest fan club because I could pull five of you. It sounds stupid and pathetic, and I have done it, and so has a lot of other my friends. We could pull 500 mates. We could pull 200 Hurrigans. And that's in these Hurrigans where we sang about in the 70s, that looked the part where they said they looked like gangsters, all become gangsters.

1:17:38of one of them now is worth 30 million quid living in Dubai. Was there ever a moment in your life, like 20s getting into your 30s, where you were ever happy that you were making money, you had a reputation, or was that always wanting more? Always wanting more tonnes, always wanting more graft? Was there ever any moments? I've never been money-related. Never? Never. I've counted money where it's been back aching, where you're counting nothing more or less 20s with 20s, 10s with 10s, where it hurts my back counting money. I've done money through counting machines. 90%, if I'm telling people stories, it's not really about the money I've been earning.

1:18:30Now, when, more or less, when the RAE system come out, yeah, where this is, when I had that trouble with Massey, Massey's firm was the most feared in the North West, yeah? They had kids in that firm that, being shot above the waist, just started to come out, yeah? The Noonans got charged. Obviously, they was not guilty. they got found on Gilly for killing somebody. They got charged with that, acquitted, likely so. Now, after that murder, nobody knows who'd done it, after that murder, people started to, forget about getting legged off, people started to get shot above the waist. So everyone accepts that.

1:19:20Now, because even the drug scene started to come out, people started to sell weed here, there and everywhere. Now, this firm, Massey's firm, was that ruthless. They even went to a guy that wouldn't sell weed to beat him up. The guy wasn't at home. There was a wallpaper man putting wallpaper up. They killed the wallpaper man. That's how barbaric this firm is. So now this is the firm that I'm going against, and half the people hated him. Now, I've got a problem with this firm. Then all of a sudden, from the biggest menace in Manchester at one time, these club owners are coming to me, saying to me, would I bar this firm from nightclubs?

1:20:13Now, if I've got this firm coming to me, I'm thinking, well, why not? Why not earn something? Why not get myself out of the house without the missus going on at me? so I can then get out, be out to four five in the morning, no problems so that's what I did I started to buy Massey's Firm from most nightclubs and that's where the door was the Manchester door was where the Manchester door was was everybody against me now one time there's a pub called the Inner Good Hope and this pub called the Inner Good Hope beautiful place and I got asked from a friend to bar Massie's firm from it because they all used to go in with caps on, hoodies on, whatever.

1:21:05So they asked me could I, this terrorised all the other customers in there, could I bar them? And I'll be on fantastic wages so I said like no problem. My first night I go down there, I'm working for somebody on the thing, yeah, getting paid, then I go down there there was I'm not gay but there's very handsome kid 30 inch waist 16 and a half stone on the door there called Graham Boardman right talk unbelievable you'll think he was a professor now when I first landed he goes oh Paul it's a pleasure to meet you I've heard about your reputation blah now I was took back by his mannerism little did I know this guy is the biggest lunatic on the planet.

1:21:54Fantastic with the girls, beauty, charmed them, charmed anyone. But this night, we got told to buy a massive firm. There's another firm in there called the Ugly Firm. Skinheads was out in them days. They're all skinheaded off. Oh, they suited the name, the Ugly Firm, because they was all ugly, bent noses. I could have been part of it. So what happened was it ended up, This is another part of Salford where everybody hates me. They was all leaving the place. One stopped and said, Doyle, what are you doing on here? Now, I'm not going to argue with anyone. I know what's going to come. So I unslaughtered him.

1:22:35These friends come running back in. As I'm unslaughting him, I'm looking at Graham and another kid called Alan Maloney massacring these other 10, 15 lads, just going through them like a knife into the ball, a hot knife into the ball. So many ran off. They come back and I'm thinking, wow, I'm expecting these two kids that spoke like gays, nothing against gays, but spoke like gays, to be done in. I was worried for them. But they massacred them, left bodies all over the car park. They've come back and you hurt Paul. I said, no, is there any more of this scum in here? Then everybody in the pub started pointing their finger at me, thinking I'd put all these kids in a coma.

1:23:23Then the next day, Massage Firm heard what happened to this Ugly Firm. The Ugly Firm's a part of the area there from.

1:23:362040, 16 valve golfs, that's what everyone used to, Cosworth's used to driving, all the gangsters, yeah, pulled on the car park. Massey comes up, he said, Diarrhea shouldn't be borrowing us from this place, you're a friend. So he's just giving me a door to get out of. So I said, look, Massey, I said, I'm glad you said I'm a friend. I said, because you should be saying to me, if you're a friend, we'll drink somewhere else and let you earn money in peace. I said, that's what you should be saying to me. He said, yeah, but your boss, who's in Poyneur here, He shouldn't be. He's no friend of mine. I've got another kid with me that wants him a one-to-one for 20 grand.

1:24:20Right? So I turn around. This kid, what he wants a one-to-one with, is a big 6 '4 kid. More or less a straight member. He's got a security firm. He's got a security firm with Gennardo for 250 grand. Right? A contact with Gennardo. And could have a proper lead in light. But Queensborough is. Yeah? So I said, look, I can't speak for this kid. So he turned around and said, right. He said, then we'll stay out of here for you, but we're not staying out of here for your boss, more or less. I won't say his name. So anyway, he said, will you tell him this kid wants him a fight? The 6 '4 kid come and he went right out to me.

1:25:03He said, what do you think you should do? So I said, well, you can't win. He said, what do you mean you can't? I can't win. He said, I'll fight the lad. He's a big, powerful lad, boxer. He said, you can't win. I said, the kid that wants you to fight, I very well know Manchester family, he said, the kid that wants you to fight, I said, he will throw punches at you for 20 seconds, which I would do the same. After 20 seconds, he would know you're capable of taking his punches. Then it'll start eyeballing you, where you go for the eyes. I said, if that doesn't work, it'll float you. It'll grip you up.

1:25:48It'll bite your vein out of your neck. I said, and if that doesn't work, his friends that are there watching the fight will pull out the weapons. He said, in the early days, it would be a knife, but now they'll be pulling out them. They said, no doubt, we will pull out them. He said, we'll be there. He said, then you're going to have World War III. He said, is it worth it over the inner good old? He said, because you've got a contract with Gennardo. Just accept the contract with Gennardo. You forget about Massey's firm, you're not going to win. So then he just said, yeah, you're right. Not cowardice, he would have fought the lad, but he just couldn't have won.

1:26:31Then he said, yeah, you're right. So that's when me and Graham, this kid called Graham Bordman, become partners because we took over the security firm and then the next thing that happened then i realized how much of a psychopath he was which everyone now we've got a security firm where everybody wants us on their doors all the time yeah so we started to write to say one occasion with some graham was on the door with somebody it's the double of me Yeah, he was on the door there. And this was on a Thursday night at a nightclub. Seven lads come down and the place was entered. Graeme said, you're not coming here, you've had too much to drink.

1:27:19So the kids said, he said, what? He said, I said, you've had too much to drink. So the kids said, look, he said, I used to be a doorman and one thing I never did was growl. because if I grow out, now before he could finish the statement off, he was comatised. All seven was put in a coma besides one girl. We was, in the next day, we were charged with seven Section 18s because these was all in a bad way. Then we were charged with six. We had to go on the ID parade. None of them would turn up for the ID parade, only the girl. We had that information anyway. and in them days you could pick your ID parade so I could have seven brothers on my ID parade and you was allowed to do that.

1:28:10Now, on this occasion, what we did, we got her next door neighbour on the ID parade just to show her we know where she lived and obviously we never got picked out. So this Graham guy, who is he? You're thinking he's a big fruity guy, big handsome guy, not going to back you up but it ends up a big part of your life does it not but it ends up an absolute he's got a massive he's got a massive part of my life in fact he's given me nightmares a million percent no not my nightmares as in the way you would expect you've got to know the story to understand the nightmares what he's given me right now I am a I am a a Christian and diehard Christian.

1:28:58In the reform schools, yeah, because the Catholic reform schools, don't forget we're going back to the Victorian era. In these reform schools, you had to go to church every morning. You did your bed, make your bed, yeah? You went for breakfast, then you went for church. It was drummed into you. Right, so I'm a diehard Catholic. I believe in the power of the universe. Now, because I went to church, I think I'm like surrounded. When I used to knock people out, left, right and center, and I used to think to myself, why am I not receiving this? Why am I not getting this? Now, when I met Graham, when I met Graham, we went from that path to a different path.

1:29:57We had the gang warfares with Massa. Now, Graham started to get a very, very, very big reputation. Even Desi Noonan turned around and said to one of his friends, you would fight Paul Doyle, yeah, because all you're going to do is get knocked out, yeah? He said, you fight Graham, you're just going to be colonised. You don't know what's coming. when I said to you that somebody would bite a vein out of somebody's neck, Graham would bite a vein out of somebody's neck, he would go through six or seven lads, like I said, like a knife through his butt. His reputation is unbelievable. Because he was a good-looking lad, nobody had fear factor for him and with the way he spoke.

1:30:45Now, we was together. We're going on meetings to have a chat with other criminals. everyone would think he's the brains and I'm the brawn but he wasn't, I'm the streetwise kid and he's the brawn he was, all I had to do was attack, move to one side I didn't even have to help him out, he was that vicious it was untrue, he would have killed Lenny McLean he would have done Lenny McLean, he knew every sort of martial art on the planet he was the one that told me one time we used to have battles within the good hope against the rugby players. Now, one time, he showed me how to do the throat move, yeah?

1:31:34So for a month, instead of doing the way I punch, I was just practising the throat move where you go down, bang, yeah? So then, for a month, he showed it to me. This rugby player started one night, six foot four, standing in front of me, said to me, I was arguing with another rugby player. Tapped me on the shoulder. He said, don't be arguing with me, argue with me. So I looked up, looked up. There was a big pal, throated him, down, gasping for breath. Now, the whole hospital was 300 yards away. We had to put him in the back of the car, check him to hospital. If the whole hospital would have been two miles away, he would have been dead.

1:32:17He had to put the tube at the back of the throat to keep him alive, and that's how dangerous that move is. Now, Graeme's shown me that, and he had moves after moves after moves, but it was so psychotic, it was unscrewed. Now, because we had problems with Massifirm and all the other stuff, at the same time, the world blossomed on ease and cannabis, right? Sniff wasn't really out. The cocaine wasn't really out. does that half the planet what it was, cannabis and ease. And the European drug laws knew it had a problem. And the problem was, we were to say, like, we're connected, yeah? And we used to get our stuff from the people that I was in the pre-schools with, the scousers that I've spent time with.

1:33:15In the reform schools, 60%, no, 80 % of the lads in the reform schools were Scousers. They had the same genetics as us. So when we come out, we still had a bond with them. So we got our cannabis from them. We was lucky. But the white community couldn't go to these places like Moss Side or Liverpool because they would have the money took off and they'd be taxed. So the European drug lords knew there was a problem to get their stuff sold to the white community. So they got every hard nut, everybody with a reputation, to set up shop around, say, areas, Manchester, Salford or whatever, to start selling.

1:34:03So because we had gang warfare on the door walls with nearly enough everyone, our reputation blossomed, mine and Graham's. More so, everybody knew for years what I was about. All of a sudden, people understand what Graham was about. He was a psychopath. So then we went over to, we got called over after collecting a bit of the debt to see a guy in Amsterdam. We had the business class, can't get to Amsterdam, you can't get first class, business class, five-star hotel to stay in. We had everything paid for us to meet this guy. Now, I had a round of about 20k of cannabis sold every week. So all I wanted was to be able to buy 20 key of cannabis.

1:35:02But anyway, we go over there, met this guy, six foot four, yeah. Straight away, he had his same sort of image as Graham at the time, a good-looking guy, yeah, suave, Italian suit. We met him in the hotel. Well, because of the way Graham was, the way he spoke, he was sucking by that. And because of the way I look and my mad reputation, what I had, that was fearless reputation, he was also talking for that. Graham wouldn't go to the next level. I was more or less thrilled to go to that level, just like a lot of other people went through what I went through. now when we met him we that night he got us in the five star hotel we had a little drink with him he said look I'm not going to talk business now he said well I'm going to take you on a meeting at night time I went on a meeting at night time which what how old am I now just over 30 Graham's still in his late 20s no I've gone over there and he's saying look we need you he was saying the boss we need you to set up a shop about England.

1:36:22He said, I've got a slaughter. Do you know what a slaughter is? A warehouse to send stuff to in Manchester, but we haven't really got anyone to sell it. He said, we need you to set up a shop around Manchester. Not only will we feed you, we'll feed our own friends around the north. So I'm thinking, yeah, we'll blossom on that. he took us to meet the Dutch guys he said this is Paul Graham who's collected I collected a debt for 200 grand for him he said this is Paul Graham who collected a debt for us he said Paul knows all the different he was building us up on a pedestal I wanted 20 gigs he said Paul can sell our stuff for us he said he will receive it at the slaughter blah blah blah now we got offered two ton of cannabis.

1:37:17Yeah. I only wanted 20, and something like two ton of whiz. Yeah, exactly. I nearly burst out laughing with my tears. Yeah. So I'm thinking, God, what have I stepped into? So I said, look, come on to the boss, can I have a word with you? Outside the pub, I said, look, I can't sell this amount. I wanted 20, he said, don't worry, because you're getting it that cheap. Now, if you were to get a key of, cannabis, this was before skunk come out, cannabis is half the hard stuff, yeah, if you was to get a key of cannabis, you'd be lucky to make £20 on it, but in them days you could make£300 on it so you'll get it£300,£200 cheaper, right because they're getting half of it laid on right, from the Yugoslavs whatever, the Moroccans now this guy also had a problem with the Moroccans so anyway, but on this deal we agreed that we would receive all the cannabis, yeah, and all the whiz, but the whiz got sent to his shop where people was already set up on it.

1:38:26So we're receiving the cannabis. Now, later that night, after we'd made a deal, more or less the champagne come out because it was on fortunes. This one night, he spent about 160 ,000 guilders, which is, it was 41 in the pound then, guilders, but still massive amount of money celebrating, right? Christmas has come for him. God knows what he was earning. Now, he turned around, this smart guy who's slick as anything, he said to me, he said, Paul, he said, we know everything about you, yeah? He said, we know everything about Graham. He said, but, he said, we like people that walk straight. He said, them that walk crooked will die, yeah?

1:39:21So I'm thinking, fucking hell, what's this about? Them that walk crooked will die? Because I'm not a drinker. I, what do you call it, this night I was drinking, it gets rid of all my shyness. Normally I don't talk. It gets rid of all my shyness. so I gave it the Al Pacino bit and said look I'm not scared of dying but I don't want cooking and he goes he said yeah I'm like you Paul he said I'm not scared of dying but the last but there's a million ways to die and I'm thinking fucking hell what's this about so he showed me then something that was unbelievable he showed me a picture with a head on a plate, a head on a plate with an apple in its mouth.

1:40:10The head, you couldn't even tell it was a head. No eyes, no ears, no nose, no lips, and the apple shoved you, said, you'll end up like a pig. I'm thinking, fuck it up. But I was thinking in my head, who's give this guy this pizza? Where did he get this pizza from? yeah because it was like one of them you know pictures that come out straight away yeah it was it was one of them thinking who's give this guy this picture not realising he's shot this picture himself it's one of his victims yeah so now I'm thinking yeah but I'm a grafter who cares right but I had a funny feeling in my head right and I'm saying look this sounds weird you know to Graham but Graham was thinking about the Powell Notes, right?

1:41:05Now, I was thinking at the time, I'm in my 30s, thinking it's going to dis-life now. I've stepped in to the premiership. This is the premiership. Forget everything else. This is more or less what I've set my career out to be, where I want to be, yeah? Besides the head, I'm not thinking about, I'm thinking now I can get away from the gun wars. All I can do now is feed everyone, be everyone's mate, be the man at the top, drive nice cars, because in them days, only criminals drove nice cars. You didn't have to hide anything. Everyone knew what always was anything. If somebody went to the police and said, Paul Doyle is selling drugs, the police will say, don't we think we know that?

1:41:53How can we get him? Tell me how we can get him. The police are on us. I had that many operations on me, they were bumping into each other's. Yeah, but I'm thinking this is the way out. So when I come back to England to start work on the two tonne of cannabis, I ended up with about 400k myself to sell to friends. All the rest went out to the boss's friends all around the north, right? And so did the whiz. He did the whole whiz. so then after he used to say you've got to go out of town phone box we used to call the office it's not like mobiles now so he used to go to out of town phone box give him a one bell they'll phone back and you have a chat so then he'll turn around and say get over here as fast as you can before he even started talking saying everything's gone we're just waiting for the money to come in everything was laid on in them days you know what I mean by laid on Yeah, on tip.

1:42:53Yeah, on tip. So in them days, everything was laid on. So you'll give them, like, 10 days to pay. Then you'll send the money out. Then the net shipment will be coming in within 14 days. So it's every two weeks it carries on. So anyway, he said, come over here. So I'm thinking, right, it must be to talk about the money, blah, blah, blah. So then we've gone over, met him. Oh, he said, don't come by a plane, drive over. So we drove over to see the boss. We get there. He phoned us a pair of, what do you call it, a span of each. Give us a span of each. So I'm thinking, God, what's this about? This is what I'd dreamt about, getting away from that, shutting the door on that, and just carry on earning money.

1:43:40What it's about. It's not about the violence no more, I was thinking. He said, right, I'm having a meeting with some Moroccans. and he said, these Moroccans I've got a problem with, something happened and I ended up finding out he ripped them off for a million and a half quid that's why he's doing so well he's spending a million and a half quid, most of all he's worth seven million now, so I went to I was in the back of the car, all spannered up, Graham had a spanner but he's never even, the only thing Graham could do with his spanner is look at himself, he's a bit shiny, he wouldn't think he's a fighter So anyway, so I'm in the back of the fire thinking, now, am I ever going to get away from this, right?

1:44:25Ill with talking to myself inside me head, gutted. Then I have to accept in me head in that back of the car. It is what it is. I am what I am. And it doesn't matter about I'm most of it accepted that through my life I'm never going to be away from it. so then I've accepted that yet again I could be took out life censors so we go on the meeting six or seven Moroccans east chain over about the rip arguments each way a guy big powerful guy kept an eyeball in there the argument got vicious the big powerful guy plugged shot two of them out of annoyingness more or less because I knew the door wasn't going to get shut on violence, right?

1:45:18So I took it out in the two Moroccans. I had to get a taxi to Belgium, then a train to France, back over here, and Graham, and we got another lad, a boxer, bodyguarded him. Graham started bodyguiding the boss, right? Because now it's on top proper. But Graham's fearless. The bodyguard we sent over, the Irish lad, wasn't shy. So then the next thing is we've realised that this guy, the picture of what he's shown me is one of his victims. He's just like a psychopath. Well, Graham's a psychopath on violence. This guy's a psychopath on that. These victims never get the privilege of a bullet. They're drilled.

1:46:09it's like where we've been cloned for the battlefield but what he gets up to is not in the real book torture worse than it, the sex who abuse you they burn your testicles off they'll cut your lips off to pull your teeth out they won't allow you to die when you start getting cut you'll be thinking to yourself Now I would most probably die of a heart attack because I wouldn't know what was coming. But you would think to yourself, thank God because I most probably won't have long. They're just barbaric. Then there was, what do you call it, Graham and the other lad was over there all the time. Now, what happened was,

1:47:01me and the world champion box at the time and another lad, a friend of mine, we was all pulled in on a murder charge over here. We never did it, but we was pulled in on it, right? By the time we ate the trial, before trial began, we had our charges dropped. They found the proper killer, yeah? Now, I went over to talk about what's being spent, blah, blah, blah. While my two partners, Graham and the Irish kid, was over there, they started to all get a reputation around Holland, more so the boss, how vicious and what they're capable of with other firms. So everyone started to come to them. This guy was known about his firm behind himself.

1:47:56So he's also done 36 murders, this guy. right but this is Arthur behind him he was cloning them to do whatever and these would do whatever now on one occasion there was a Colombian guy a Colombian guy and he he was old the son of the Colombian cartel this son is like his dad must probably on another level but he's must probably a spy of black he's not capable of nothing So he goes to the boss and says, look, I'm all two million guilders. So the boss turns around and says, right, we'll collect the debt for half price. The next thing is, Graham comes back to England, said that he has to give him so much out the boss's money because what him and the boss done.

1:48:51They tortured some poor guy to death for the two million guilders, yeah? I go over there, Now I know what this guy's about. I go over and he's talking about, there's a guy, a Geordie kid, who owes him£300 ,000. On this night out, like I don't drink, so I'm there. On the ball. Yeah, I'm always on the ball, yeah? So he's sniffing whatever, partying, and he's talking now what he's going to do to the Geordie kid who's not paid the£300 ,000, pound how he's going to cut his lips off this is what i what i said this is where it's all come from this night how he's going to cut his lips off to where him burn his testicles off the whole scenario so then he said the next day i'm thinking thank god i'm going home right and i don't have i know the jordy kid one of the typical jordies from the 80s he's got tattoos on his face or that sort of crap.

1:49:52So the next thing is, he said, Paul, you're going home today, this is on a Sunday. So I said, yeah. He said, do us a favour. When our car drops you off, right, drops us off at the airport, get the Geordie kid and bring him to the car. So I'm thinking, God, I've got to send this Geordie kid to the worst death on the planet. Yeah, so the Geordie kid comes as happy as the day is long. So I said, well, get back on the plane and go. Because if you stay here, you're going. Going where? I said, going. Gone. He said, I don't know what you mean. I said, look, do I have to spell it out? You're gone, never to be seen again.

1:50:34Your mother's not even going to bury her. Right? So then he realised, got back on the plane. I come home. I was just going to pretend that he never got off the plane. I come home. Then I get a phone call. and he said, right, get to the office, out of town phone box. The boss speaks to me, he said, you glassy bastard. So I said, what do you mean a glassy bastard? He said, you told the Geordie kid that he was going. So then I knew, and then somebody said, look, I'm not capable of what you're, I don't mind doing whatever and somebody going on the battlefield, it's a battle. They accept that. Because on our level, you would accept that, whatever.

1:51:18I said but to go that way I said you would give me nightmares forever and a day I said I'm not capable of that he ate me so he spat he's done me out a bit so he half accepted now Graham was back over then with the other kid the other kid, the Irish kid come over here to do the Jardie anyway he ended up going to Jardie he ended up dying anyway he ended up dying anyway Right. Then I'm over there. So I get thinking because of the argument. You're next. Yeah, I've got, I'm spanned up. Thinking like half ready that the boss is going to go if he makes one wrong move or whatever. Now that night, the people we're with are not uncouth.

1:52:12The businessmen. They're the businessmen from England. So one of them would, to open a warehouse will take six months. He'll go in the bank. He's got to sit with a banker. He's got to open a business company. They're all suave. They're all suited and beautiful. The proper businessmen get paid well, right? So then we're all on a night out. Yet again, I'm sober, right? And I don't do the blast. My generation think it's nonsifying to go. which it sounds like, you know, non-suffering to have to pay for it, yeah? So at the end of the night, everyone's, all of them a bit drunk on the sniff, decide to go to a prostitute, a brothel.

1:52:58We go in this brothel, a 10 out of 10 brothel, big, gorgeous women there, but there's a screen that's showing Brazilian models on the catwalk, right, in bikinis. so I'm chilling with my Diet Coke just watching the models waiting for them to finish doing what they were doing all my friends because I'm driving everyone because I'm the only one that's sober so the next thing that bird comes sits next to me I said can we buy a drink? Look I'm happy being here by myself go away yeah another bird comes go away the next thing another bird comes do us a favour F off so then the two doormen come the two doormen come with the boss one big potato headed guy comes the boss is like that he said what are you doing telling my women to F off so I said look I said I'm just enjoying a diet coke what I've paid too much for I said I just want to be left alone I'm waiting for my mates to finish doing what they're doing then I'll go he said no you go now because the thing I said I'm not going anywhere mate The potato head stood forward, pulled the spanner out.

1:54:15Do you want to go? Do you want to go now? Right. The boss runs out naked. Graham runs out. Right. Oh, I didn't know he was with you. So the boss slaps the bird. Don't bother him again. Well, anyway, long story short, I go home the next day. The boss then phones me up and says, why did you have the gun? So I said, what do you mean, why did he have the gun? I said, it was dangerous in them days. I said, I've shot two Moroccans. It can happen to me any time. I said, you know what, Oren? He said, no, you had that gun for me. I said, I didn't. I'm not going to hold up to anything, yeah? I said, no, I didn't have that.

1:54:53You're paranoid. He said, no, you had that gun for me. So we started to argue a little bit, yeah? But he was right, but I'm not admitting it, yeah? Graham comes back. Then the next thing, the boss gets arrested for all the stuff that was going on, people getting shot every other week, people getting killed. He was arrested for all the drugs that were sent over. Now, the week before he got arrested, he had two tonnes of cannabis come over and two tonnes of whiz. Like always, he gives everything out to his customers and I sell my own, yeah? so then he's locked up now over in Amsterdam in them days they used to bag you up so you could be stood at a bar the police will come in put a bag over your head you don't even know it's the police I think they play that game take you to the high the biggest highest police station going you don't even see a sweaty sofa for a month nothing it's barbaric like they did in this country years ago then what happened then is they more or less he's wanting in this country for two murders the English didn't even want him right now if I was away in Holland and I got done for shoplifting they would bring me back here and throw me in jail for some reason they didn't want him right and that's when I knew he could have been a farmer or he made a deal with the police so then when he come out they asked him what country he wants I said, also, he went to Ireland, yeah?

1:56:35He went to Ireland, he phoned me up. He said, have you got my money? Because of the cannabis I was selling. So I said, yeah. He said, how much have you got? I said, I've got like two and a half hundred thousand. Could have been a bit more, I don't know. He said, no, Paul, you've got like two and a half mil, three mil. So I said, what are you talking about? He said, the whiz. Now, the whiz was laid on to him from the Ugaris raves. So I said, I don't offer the wish. You give it to your customers. He said, no, could it come through our slaughter, where I picked up from? He said, no, you picked the stuff up.

1:57:12Now, he would have been taping me. I said, are you mad? He said, I went to name people. I'll give it to them. He said, I don't know none of them. Did he tape all your codes? He did, yeah. He's the most devious, midnight, uncouth bastard you'll ever meet. So, but he's suave. Now, at one time, I would have stood in front of him if he was getting shot at, yeah? So then he goes like that. He's told the Uroslavs, because they've took everything off him, he's told the Uroslavs, we've ripped him. So he'll collect all the money from his customers. Then he would tell the Uroslavs, we've ripped. They've come for us, thinking that he's not had it.

1:57:55So you're talking about 3 million quid, which is like 15 million now, maybe more. So the Yugoslavs are on the, the Yugoslav mafia is on the phone to me. So we had, what do you call it, an argument. Graham was more or less saying, see the boss, he's the one who's ripped, not us. And he's saying, no, he wouldn't have ripped because he's done us favours. You know, where the Colombian guy, he had to collect debt for, he's most probably done favours like that. So he's saying, no, years have had it. So the next thing, I had my own builder's yard in them days, earning good money, blah, blah, blah. And I was, also, I don't mind getting myself there, but getting involved with the lads.

1:58:39So I was working at the builder's yard, a car pulled up, two big heavy cockneys there. Because they were so filthy and working, they thought I was just a worker. They said, go and get your boss. I said, what do you mean, go and get the boss? He said, we're here to see your boss. So he said, who? He said, Doyle. So I thought, oh, give him the thing. Now, I was always, I spanned up, because I knew what was coming, yeah? I knew what was coming, because the arguments I've had on the phone. So I've come back, legged one, shouldered the other, took the watches off him. Then Yugoslavs washed their hands with us.

1:59:19They knew that Salford wasn't a place to step into. So then the other guy, the boss, still having arguments. Him and Graham now are going at each other. Him and Graham are going at each other. Both arguing, saying what they're going to do to each other, how they're going to do it, blah, blah, blah. That's not in the real book. So the next thing you know is, at the same time, Graham bought into a nightclub called The Temple. now we've given up the doors not interested in this money to be earned elsewhere and we're doing well like I said it hurt my back counting money but I'm a gambler also throwing it on the roulette tables the next thing is him and Graham are going on at each other how are they going to kill us both blah blah blah because at the same time Graham and I forgot about this, Graham.

2:00:23So, as an argument with a ticket, parking on Double Yard Lines, a traffic warden, he tries to run over the traffic warden, the traffic warden jumps on the bonnet, goes down the road with him, 60 miles an hour, pulls up, he rolls off, Graham gets 18 months. right so this firm the boss's firm he then brings other people to come at us I then surrounded myself with hooligans that look like gangsters that are ready to budwise whoever comes through the door look in the park everywhere I went I'm standing 80 strong or 100 strong before cameras come out when I walked through a club When I walked to a club and there's a queue outside, all the doormen would push the queue back and just allow us to walk straight through.

2:01:20We had a run of every club in Manchester. We even started to, the VIP part in a club called Kells, where we was drinking with all the footballers, Beckham, Giggs, Gary Neville, Smychel. I've named one of my sons Smychel. There's a picture, yeah, beautiful. He's even got blonde hair. There's a picture of Smychel on Peter Smychel's knee when he was one year of age. So we had it boxed off. Ned Keller. Ned Keller used to pay us money, so he's done security at Old Trafford, so nothing happens to the players. We had it totally boxed off, the whole of Manchester. So anybody outside Manchester knows they couldn't come in to do me.

2:02:05So I still strong. Graham come out of prison. He didn't want to go back. It was his first way I was bred into it, and there was no fair factor with me. There was a fair factor with Graham. He hated it. Did it scare him? Pardon? Did it scare him? He couldn't handle it. It's mostly, I mean, prison's uncouth. It's mad, isn't it? Big, strong man who could fight anybody, but being caged up like an animal. Yeah, well, his brother was a professor. He wasn't cloned for that. he was cloned to chatting up women brutalised women he was cloned for for the freedom he liked going on walks he liked going to the gym he knew every martial art on the planet but he was psychotic he was a fantastic footballer he was a professional footballer but he beat half his own team up if he was playing football he did a bad pass get a grip of your game he would slap himself he was a lunatic but 16 and a half stone lunatic now what happened was he come out and he bought into a nightclub called the temple he owed 1400 ravers earning fantastic money doing the door there was one firm coming bad, you're not allowed in so this firm what do you mean we're not allowed in, he slaps them all about, on the way back to the car five of them stupidly jumped him.

2:03:38Now, they were found in bushes. One of them had the cheekbone bit out. Yeah? The next day, the police go through the door, right, go through his door, and he took his bite sample. DNA? No, each person has a different bite. Teeth, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so they took his bite sample. I think it was how they did it, I don't know. So he was given bail. right now in just before this he attacked the five guys right just before he attacked the five guys and he got out of prison he was like a new man when he got out of prison i gave him the weekend he got out i gave him 300 grand with what i've earned while he's away for him he share yeah so i gave him 300 quid now normally if somebody gives me 300 quid what he can't i'll be over the moon could have been him or whatever he decide to go off to London he wouldn't get involved in the graft because he was scared of the prison what was what it was about so he got himself and he wanted to distance himself from me because I was grafting and then what I was doing so we got himself a new set of friends one of the friends was a world champion kickboxer and one was a he called SAS guy, S-A-S Jerry right, that's his nickname not his proper name, his nickname, S-A-S Jerry, right so when he said come and meet my friends, the odd occasion I'd go down and meet him, so I'd gone down in the middle of the day for something to eat with him to meet his new friends now his new friends like that, he said we've got a hit on you yeah don't forget he's S-A-S and now there's a hit on me through the bus because of shooting the the Yuga Skars, big heavies from London, whatever, and having it with some of the boss's friends, yeah?

2:05:42So there's a hit on us. And also Graham, because Graham argues with the boss left, right and centre. So then, oh, in the meantime, two of the people we've worked with have gone over to Ireland to see the boss. They've never been seen again. They've gone. one even went with the wife gone she's gone gone yeah brutal right but hopefully they've gone the easy way though then yeah it sounds it sounds that stupid it sounds like a mad mad film yeah but it sounds like a Quentin Tarantino thing like fucking erm like a killbow what was the film when the Reservoir Dogs when they're all getting tortured coppers are getting shot well to believe it or not the guy eating those of our dogs, which cuts the ear off, yeah, he half looks like this guy in his younger days.

2:06:37And that's how mad that is. It's one million percent. And I could not say in the younger days, if I, when I was in Lindholm and I would say to somebody, oh, I was walking to this nightclub and somebody started on me and knocked him out. then I went to two doormen, knocked the two doormen out, then I went in the bar, knocked the guy in the bar out. People think, what planet are you on? Not knowing, I'm more or less connected out to four punches, right? Because it's easier to knock a man out in one punch than it is with the second. So anyway, so what happened was, I meet the SAS guy in the world champion boxer.

2:07:20So he said, we've got a hit on you. So I said, what do you mean you've got a hit on us? He said, off the Uyghur Slavs. Now, everyone thought we did a rip on the boss. Nobody already knew about the Uyghur Slavs, but I thought Graham must have told them. So it just went over my head, right? So then the SAS guy turned around and said, he said, look, he said, the hardest thing, I'm having something to eat with a friend, he said the hardest thing is when you're touching somebody is to keep them alive don't let them die of a heart attack you can't go too heavy too fierce we scratch the bones I said listen mate I said I'm having my food I said you're putting me off my dinner what planet are you on then he goes oh I could shoot somebody from 300 yards away I said listen I'll shoot somebody from a yard away big thrill shut up mate let me finish my thing Then I said to Graeme, they're ticks then, right?

2:08:23I said, what planet are they living on? Right. So then I didn't like them and Graeme knew it, but Graeme didn't like my friends because there was a hooligans on Coof, yeah, where he thinks that everybody are on the same level, but so what if they all go in at the same time? There's nothing to blossom in a one-to-one. And Graham's a one-to-one, and capable of it, but where everyone that's a hooligan would go in at the same time. And I prefer to be the other one, yeah, because I know the odds are in my favour. So anyway, so the next thing is, I didn't get on with these friends. Graham beats up, like I just said, the five people are jumping, set by examples, didn't want to go back to prison, and a fair factor with prison.

2:09:14so the SAS guy turns around and said I've got a place where you can go and stay at in Spain now we think the boss can't go to Spain because he's still got a problem with the Moroccans he ripped off and two of them have been shot yeah? do you remember me saying that? yeah? he thinks we think we can't go to Spain Graham goes to Spain Now, the boss, we didn't know, has sorted out with the Moroccans, right? But he didn't want to go straight in for Graham, because he wants me as well. Now, they're feeding Graham with women. Graham was mad about the women. They're feeding him with women. They're saying to me, go over there.

2:10:05You can, like Graham, you can party. I said, this is the guy I don't like, the SAS guy. I said, why should I go over there? I said I'm a Salford kid I can get Salford girls so what if they've got mum and dad tattooed on their arms so what yeah right I am what I am I prefer to take out a Salford girl in any high class right and I wouldn't have to pay for it so then they've gone like that so they know I'm not going to go over there for the women so then the next thing that happened is they said to me like Paul he said we we can get as much cannabis over here as possible through the Moroccans. We know the best Moroccan boss of all time that will supply you.

2:10:49Cartel sort of guy. So I turned around and said, how much is it? Now, at the time, cannabis was going for 1 ,400 pounds. Yeah? He said to me, we can get it for 400 pounds. This is in Spain. Now, normally, everyone started to get it from Spain then. Normally, in the earlier days, you got it from Holland. and if you was to buy a ton, you got a ton laid on. If you buy 20k, you got 20k laid on. So Spain was a new thing. So I said 400k. Now I had a friend who was in Barcelona, a Cockney guy. Cockneys only care about money. The Northerners are virants. Everything, they want to prove a point and tell what people are capable of.

2:11:33Cockneys are a different clique. They're just worried about the paperwork. They forget about the virus unless they're drunk. They're all game, but they want the potatoes. So the next thing is, it's a certain price. So I phoned my friend in Barcelona. I can get the wood. I can get the wood for like 400 quid. He said, you're full of shit. I said, what do you mean I'm full of it? He said, you can't. You can't even buy it in Morocco at that price. He said, then you've got to get it to Spain, get it from Spain, get it over to England, right? And he said, and then it was going to cost you like£900 to a grand in England.

2:12:14Right. So I said, like, like, so Graham said we can get, so I said, no, Graham, it's full of it. It's impossible. I've just been told. So a couple of week passes, Graham gets on to me and said, Paul, please meet the SAS guy. So I said, Graham, he's full of it. He said, please, he's got me a place to stay. Just have a chat with him. Right. So I say I agreed to meet the SAS guy on this graft, bringing cannabis back here. So I met him outside a famous pub in Hale. This pub has tables, like summer tables, in the back of the garden, right? A bench, so the seat here, table, seat there, right? He gets the drinks in, the SAS guy, comes and sits right next to me.

2:13:05And I'm thinking, God, what's this about? Is it gay? Why is this on? Because normally two guys face to face, yeah? Not next to each other, nailing off rubbing knees. So I'm thinking, wow. So he said, look, Paul, you're the last thing to the puzzle. He said, you can put the jigsaw together. So I said, what are you on about? He said, we can get the cannabis. He said, we can bring it to England. He said, what we need you is to sell it. He said, you know every firm on the planet. He said, all you have to do is make phone calls. It's gone. So I said, I know that. I said, but your stuff is too cheap.

2:13:46It's either snide or it's a rip. I said, it ain't going to happen. He said, no, I know it is. He said, the Moroccan cartel guy wants£400. He said, but we know what the price is over here. He said the price is£1 ,400. He said he wants the£400 on half the shipment. He said the other half the shipment, he wants£1 ,400. Now, that puts the stuff in the Moroccans' favour. So I'm thinking now it could be right. This could be happening, right? So he said, do you think, he's got me now mentally, he said, do you think you could sell it? So I turned around and said, at that price, I will sell 20 ton a month.

2:14:36Not a problem. Right? So he said, well, there you go. He said, all right, what we've done, we've got your business class to go over to Spain. And we've got your five-star hotel to stay in. Now, when I first met the boss, he bought me a business class to go to Spain and a five-car. And I'm thinking, is this Dave RV? Right? Yeah, exactly. Something wasn't right. And I looked down on the table, and between us, don't forget, I'm talking mid-90s, not like it is now. A bug could be a little button there. But now, I look down, there's a wallet between us. On this wallet, it had a badge, right? So I'm thinking, the badge stuck out, like about so many centimetres, whatever.

2:15:27so I'm thinking oh my god he's bugging me he's taping me this is the reason we're so close he's taping me now when you're being taped you're thinking dibble you're thinking the coppers and I've just said to him that I can sell 20 tonne a month you're done bank your rights yeah so I've walked right into a conspiracy so I'm thinking Paul get your head together get yourself out of this so then I've gone like that I said do you know Paul Massa so he looks like me confused he said I've heard of him I said well Paul Massa is Manchester's Mr Big I said rightly so I said he clicks his fingers there's 200 lads there and they said they're all a pair to stand in front of him I said every copper in the North West wants to arrest him so he could pin up on the wall I'm the man who got Mr Big in Manchester arrested right and to prevent that Paul Massie smokes a£20 weed every week.

2:16:29I said, I'm the same as Massie. I don't smoke weed, but this is what I said. I'm the same as Massie. I said, I'll smoke a£20 weed every week. I said, have you got a£20 weed on you? So he goes, no. I said, well, good, don't bother me then. I said, forget about your fancy, see. 20 tonne here and 20 tonne there and a drug load and a cartel. What planet are you on? Don't phone me again. I'm off. So I realised then, I phoned Graham. I said to Graham, right, they're now in front. So it's like, when I left him, it was 10 o 'clock. So it's 11 o 'clock in Spain. I said, Graham, he's a copper in. So he goes, don't be stupid, Paul.

2:17:08I said, Graham is a copper. He's up and trying to take me. So he said, you're being stupid. He knew he wasn't a copper. And he wasn't. So I said, well, why would he take me then? I said, if he's, what do you call it? If he's taping me and he's not a copper, He'd be taping me for the other firm. So he said, look, I'll speak to you in the morning. Now, by the time I was half an hour from home, by the time I got home, they knew, right, it would take me minutes to work everything out, right? So then they realised that I would have sussed it all out, that he wasn't a copper, that he was working for the boss.

2:17:49And not only did they want Graham, they wanted me as well, I've sussed out not to go over there, so they would have known I would have warned Graeme and let him through the net, and that's when ten of them walked in on him, and they talked to him to death for three days. But his testicles off like a turn finger, like what I said. How was it when you heard Graeme was chilled? Normally I could have a brother who I love, I love all my brothers, yeah, and many friends. I've had friends. I've had a meeting with seven lads. I'm the only one who's not been murdered. Believe it or not, Massey was the last one to be murdered out of the seven.

2:18:32I'm part of the seven, by the way. I'm the, what do you call it? Now, whoever dies on the battlefield, you can accept that they've accepted that battlefield. they've accepted you live by the sword you go by the sword but the way graham went like i said before was it in the rule book now when i said that i have nightmares now when i got a message when they did like graham they said to me graham paid his debt i'm gonna pay the same debt now i I have no fear factor of what you call it, facing whoever. Yeah, I've survived this long. Now, what do you call it? I'm five years away from 70. So in my head, I've swan the channel to get to this age.

2:19:28It was intimate at one time that I was going to go. At one time, I wouldn't even go to the gyms because it was pointless to look good for the slab. Because it was intimate because I'm going against the organisation and every time this organisation was on the phone to me, they got what I was told to do. They got the F word every time. It doesn't bother me, given whoever, so what. But when they, I've had nightmares of what Graham Lasfors was, how humiliating they made him feel. What they did is just not acceptable. It doesn't matter what criminal you are, to go down them lines, it's just not acceptable.

2:20:13What happened after that then? What happened after that, I had to stand strong. If I went into hiding, if I went into hiding, and they'll put a private investigator on me, because these kids are worth millions, millions, and they won't count the money, they'll have somebody else hurting the back counting the money. and then they would put a private investigator on me. As I'm thinking I'm hiding and feeling safe, somebody will come and do whatever, right? But I decided that I'm going to stand strong, stand surrounded with a firm. Whoever wants to come, I'm ready. I'll stand in front. When I was, say, at night time, if I'm home, I used to have a window there I called a sat there yeah, have a window there I used to always have my chair there watch the television watch out for the fast cars the 16 valves in them days past now normally if you're going through somebody's door you drive round drive round again third time you're in the door yeah and you'll be full of beans right, coming through the door now in your house you couldn't be spanned up because the dimmer would put you away for five years.

2:21:38So what I used to do in the hallway, I had a little bar, neat height, so as they're running in full of beans, they'll be stripping up, my lot of liars will be on them, I'll be on them. Is that the hard rock wheelers? Oh, yeah, beautiful dogs. I've got... Oh, best dogs on the planet. Yeah. So that was your planned survival mode, just to try and get percentages to survive, basically? it wasn't just the plan it was Jesus it sounds so pathetic it would have also been a kick where one time me and Graham one time, I know I'm going back so many years before Graham left more or less towards the end of the door was me and Graham was arguing with some of Manchester's finest a couple of the Noonans and he said we'd been asked her in this club which was the temple he said they give the door to use so me being I was sick to death of the doors because I was earning good money on the drugs I didn't have to do the doors so I turned around and said you can have the temple I didn't know Graham owned to have the temple But I turned around and said, you can have the temple.

2:23:03So Graham said, oh, no, no, no. He said, this is right to Desi Noonan. He said, no, no, no. He said, I give my word. He said, once I give my word, I have to stand by it. So Desi Noonan went like that. He said, look, Graham, you can be here one minute and you can be gone the next. Graham slaps himself, jumps up, does a dance out the car, you peasants out the car this is manchester's finest they knew not to get out the car yeah they knew they would have been finished in seconds so they said paul what are you doing so i said graham's my partner i have to stand by him right i'll stand by him so i said was it worth it graham for the temple when they went and he turned around he said he owns half of it so why didn't you not tell him he said why should I have to tell him the peasants this is the way Graham was so anyway on the Saturday night I had a couple of lads there in case they come firmed up now because I'm half deaf this is why I have a speech problem I'm half deaf I was just reading the paper sat down and as I'm reading the paper I hear a bit of noise look down see a car spin off in front of the glass doors all the glass doors have been shot through Graham's got a girl in front of him screaming yeah two of my mates that are near enough dying on the floor right then I realised we'd been shot it was all over by the time I realised now what that's the mate even though two of my mates it was a buzz and half it was I just had to go and enjoy a meal somewhere it was like wow you're clearly protected Paul pardon you're clearly protected like do you believe that you're here for the power of the Lord million percent holy shit you've done you've done many bad things yeah but this is how stupid it got when I when I say how can I explain it so say when I surrounded myself yeah and I'm surrounding myself with firms right with my own little firm that what do you call it that would go into anyone there was special squads on us I mean like squads where the police, if I'm sat in a bar, the police would come with the cameras, get every one of my friends stood against the wall and say like, say your name, where you live, this is on a camera, police camera, and say the reason why you're with Paul Doyle tonight.

2:25:39and that's how it was for so many years. I was followed by squads upon squads, units, operations upon operations. Now, if I was like in, say, any nightclub in Manchester and I'm sat down, even though I don't drink, I'll buy shampoos and everything just for the lads, yeah, even had doors open to me. Even though I don't drink, I'm sat there and there'll be, say, somebody that's making his own path in life, yeah? Once a wreck. And he's thinking, well, the biggest way to get a wreck is to do me, right? And I, by the look of him, I'm looking over thinking, oh, God, this guy is getting himself into trouble because I'll be just sat there, just waiting for him to have a couple more drinks, the Dutch courage.

2:26:29By the time he's come halfway, there'll be 20 Budweiser's on his head. he wouldn't have even had to get anywhere near me. And that's what I was surrounded with. Kids that was capable, where the proper police squad, because they were ex-Hurigans, they used to fight against the police. They used to run into, say 20 of us, run into 300 lads, where there was all professionals in violence. They wouldn't go by the Queensberries, and some of them would most probably, what do you call it? It sounds uncooked with all the stabbings now, and it's long for me to say this, but I was on a survival kit because I'm stuck here.

2:27:08So when I used to, in them days, it was like 17 stone, right? There's some pictures of me always shown with a big potato head. Yeah, all of them. So in them days, my coach used to fit me here, but the sleeves used to go to there, right? So I used to stand, go to a nightclub, whatever, and stand at my shoulders to the wall, right? Now, I used to always have a knife on that finger there. Yet again, you don't have guns. A knife on that finger there, up in the sleeve. Always was there, so nobody would know. So I would be having a conversation. If there was any problems, the finger would drop. Then, what do you call it?

2:27:55Then when the finger dropped, I would do what's necessary, but I didn't have any problems. On another occasion, most probably one of the bosses firm who's working with the boss, the ex-boss, yeah, when I've got problems with, right? Whoever works with him, such is life. Who cares, right? But I'm always eye-barring. So this guy, he said, look, he said, I have to give you 10 out of 10. I said, what do you mean you have to give me 10 out of 10? Now, this kid's capable. He's firmed up. Massive reputation. They're not shy. So I said, what do you mean you have to give me 10 out of 10? He said, you're not bowing for anyone.

2:28:37You don't bow. I said, well, who does bow? Will you bow? So he said, no. He said, but I'm not going against the organisation. You're not just going against that boss. You're going against the organisation. So I said, right, F him. They said, what do you call it? in my family, they normally die genetically of a heart attack before they're six there. I said, I was in my 40s then. I said, they haven't got, just touching 40. I said, they haven't got long left anyway. I said, what are they going to take off me 20 years, such as life? I said, to get to nearly 40, I've swam the channel. This is why it's a bonus to be at the AGM now.

2:29:16I could have accepted I was going to go young. So he said, he patted me down my back. Right. And I was on a couple of V's then. Right. Because I don't drink. But I used to take E's. Dutch courage. And it's also, in them days, you could drive on E's. You couldn't drive on B, but you could drive on E's. So he goes, there was about 20 of us, so he papped me down the back. So I thought, God, you're checking if I'm gunned up. Yeah. If I'm spanned up. So I've got, wow. then at five minutes past he said before we think we've got a club our own club why don't you come to the club dust you leave your lads here dust you right so he said there's a wheel so I said right no problem I knew I had to do something with him patting me down the back so what he got got on the phone to one of my brothers so I said Mark I said I've got a flat tyre get my wheel brace down here straight away.

2:30:23Wheel brace, yeah. So the next thing is, he shoots down, gives me my spanner, yeah. So then, I'm, think yeah, sitting in front of his car, before we set off, I said, I'll sit in the front, his three mates are in the back, he's going to drive, yeah. So I put my spanner on my knee there, and he goes, fucking hell, what are you doing?

2:30:52What Who you work for? I'm not going to be ready in this cave in case anything happens. Now, I could have been paranoid. But he said, you'll get us all five years. So I said, well, after five years, I'll still be able to see my family. I'm not going to be able to see them at the end of this night. If I don't bring this, I would have. So I fucking don't know. You're paranoid. You're paranoid. So I said, oh, shut up and went to my own friends. But that was just to prove to them. that you were capable that was ready for him so say when Graham dies you've got a hit out in your life you're surrounding your house like how did you survive that?

2:31:30when did that all die down? well it's not dying still going on? I don't know I'm not going to say I'm not going to say well you said something's always protecting me I'm not going to give the last name but the boss's name but he's just been arrested It's been all over the papers and everything. The man's a peasant. To do what he's done is not in the real book. Now, he is such an organisation, such an organisation. I've accepted that I am going against the organisation. I am accepted that I am going to be took out. So I think to myself, I've accepted that I'm going to go down fighting. Yeah? I will take a bullet and I will, what I've dreamt about as a young kid, going out like John Wayne, everyone's a hero, right, with a bullet.

2:32:25But I'm going to hopefully fight so I don't get my testicles burnt off, so I don't become the head on a plate. That's how stupid the thing is. So I have to go down fighting. Now, that's the way I accepted it, yeah? But more or less, what really, it was innermint that I was going. Innermint that I was going. But now I'm thinking to myself, this firm was capable of putting money on my head to get me done here. Yeah? And it would have been so easy. But I think this guy has been an informer always for the last 20-odd years. he's made a deal with the police not to do anybody here and the police have more or less said to him look you can do whoever you want on the continent but don't be doing people in England How long has this been growing for Paul?

2:33:28Since um 89 What? Yeah exactly 30 years over 30 years 30 years How's how have you like get through that life like how obviously I'd hate to tell the tale well I know I know what do you call it when I I've only just come out of the system now yeah yeah I know when did you end up back in prison you ended up in the jail again did you not I what happened was yeah there was a police operation on me right I walked into an operation I get seven years now at the time I don't do cocaine right cocaine has just started to come out yeah I don't do cocaine. I was doing cannabis. And because I'm selling tons, right, I don't have to bother.

2:34:19In them days when cocaine just come out around Manchester, people were selling two ounces, two ounces. Maybe a big dealer will sell a nine bar or a kilo that splits into nine bars for nothing. I can sell a ton of cannabis and earn a couple hundred thousand pounds. Yeah. Now, so I didn't have to do the cocaine. An undercover police officer, more or less, bugged up and everything, said to us, right, sold us a load of gold and said, right, Paul, can you get us some powder? Very clever, he said, powder, it could mean whiz, could mean cocaine, could mean heroin, right? So I said, look, I don't do cocaine.

2:35:04I thought it meant cocaine. I don't do cocaine. If you want cannabis, I can get you cannabis. Now, because I said that, I'm saying I'm a drug dealer, so he's got every right to entrap me, yeah? So then he turns around and said, I'll take the cannabis off you. Takes the cannabis off me. Then he turns around and he goes like that. He said, Paul, please, you know everyone. You can get us cocaine. I'm forever getting ripped off, blah, blah, blah. He said, I said, look, tell you what I'll do. I said, there's a telephone number. This kid will serve you up. The kid gives him an ounce. Just one ounce, yeah?

2:35:47He gets the ounce, right? Then he comes back to me. He said, how much do we owe you? I said, I don't deal with it. I do cannabis. Not in just you keep the money, right? Now, little did I know, my friend phoned me up who served him up with an ounce. Now, when I first met him, When I first met him, this undercover copper, he smelled like an undercover copper. He looked like an undercover copper. He'd come with my brother-in-law, right, who had a drug problem, right, and I was looking at my brother-in-law thinking, why have you brought undercover copper to me? Then the guy's phone went. He passed me this phone and said, oh, I'm speaking to a friend of yours now.

2:36:31Pass me the phone, a master. and Damien Noonan was on the other side of the phone. So now I'm thinking, this kid can't be a copper because Massey and Noonan are not that daft, yeah? So we had a little chat with Massey Noonan, how you doing, blah, blah, blah. Had a good chat. They put the phone down, now my guard's down. So that's when he started talking about cannabis and I gave him some cannabis and he went to thinking. So my mate who served him up with the ounce went like that. he said oh you know that guy you sent me for the ounce so he said I said I never send I'd give him the number he's my room for it he said are you sure he's not a copper he said no he can't be a copper Massey he was at Massey he was on Massey's he had Massey on the phone so he said no he keeps bothering it my room he's my room he's my room he's my room he's my room now under half a key the match he can get is seven years over half a key it can go up yeah he said and he wants he wants the cake he wants the icing on the cake.

2:37:33So he said, he's definitely a cop of him. So I said, I'll phone Massey up. I said, Massey, I said, you know your mate? He said, what mate? I said, the kid who was talking to me through the month on the phone for the Waddy Car, who I met that day. So he said, he said, yeah. He said, how do you know him? He said, he ain't a mate of mine, he's a mate of yours. I said, what do you mean he's a mate of mine? So he said, I only met him the night before and he said, oh, you and him are best mates and he's going to put you on the phone to me to say hello. So I said, oh my God. Right, so I'm explaining then.

2:38:12Now, yeah, this life bastard. Now, then I was explaining, Massey and Luna was laughing then, yeah. So then it's going like that. He said, come down here, explain to you how he wanted powder. So Massey, seeing the slushies, I got his clever. I said, no one's an idiot. He said, right, he got the other guy, yeah, to get washing up powder, wrap it up like a key of coke, pass it in for 32 grand. It was going for 32 grand. 32 grand is worth of gold. They swap it over. Yeah. Then in it, there was a solicitor note saying, don't come to Solford and Manchester selling drugs to school kids, the powder. You got powder.

2:38:54Now leave Manchester because it was washing up powder. And you got, the kids that did the swap, they got charged. had that charge thrown out. Now, my mitigations, you know what mitigations are? Where you go into court and you admit what you've done. My mitigations that I am guilty for passing an undercover police officer a telephone number where you can get cocaine for no financial gain and because of the consistent mire of the copper, yeah, I got seven years for that. all the less what was in the dock with they all got five and that's what it was when I got that seven more or less what was intimate of me getting whacked out even the week before I was getting shot at in the car by the boss's firm the money car or another firm because I was having that much mithering them games yeah the that more or less that seven years more or less kept me alive you're definitely alive for a reason don't you think oh yeah but what do you think looking back at your life Paul when it's madness like it's like a fucking like I says it's like a it's like a Quentin Tarantino for them it's like comedy and madness and talk to the pain right the years today right the years today are on a different pedestal yeah when I got that seven years, right, and I went to Strangeways, I had so many incidents as I landed in Strangeways.

2:40:28How so? Just local thugs, you say, they sound stupid, just prison mentality. Say there's a pool table next to the phone, there's phone cards, just nice fast store, there was phone cards, yeah, on the phone, you had to put in them days. There's a kid on the phone and I said, who's on the phone after you? He said, nobody. I said, give me a shout when I can use the phone, I'm just finishing this game of pool off. So then I, what do you call it, the kid shouts, you're on the phone. Now there's a queue there. There's a kid, big young kid, six foot, said there's a queue here. So I said, that's nice, stay in it.

2:41:09He said, what do you mean you're two, stay in it? I said, oh God, pass it to you mate when you're ready. Got on the phone, you're staying in there a little bit, the screw's coming, he starts it out. In the morning, yeah, the kid comes in my cell and he goes I said oh you let's have it I said oh you cheeky bastard I'm going to kill you it's slang what I'm going to kill you so he's sitting around and said he said I'll fight till I die so anyway we start throwing now the cell's about that wide you know the little table and not to throw punches so he gets down now one of my moves a trick what I've learned you know your two fingers there you can push up there right and when you you can squeeze the weed pipe and it's like a rock wire it grips it doesn't let go so you can squeeze them to your last breath now he's like a muppet of a puppet and said do you still want to die now he belongs somewhere kissed him on his nose and said thank me for not biting your nose off blah blah blah uncouth i've never bit anyone's nose off so anyway so then he walks out, right, this was a totally change of life, he walks out and I thought sorry for him, giving so many phone cards, got him some tobacco, because he took a beating, it must have been, I was 40 then, degrading for a young kid at stepping the ladder to get a good hiding, then this kid called Twinny, called Hearth, went in the cell and put him unconscious, right?

2:42:43So any miva I have in prison, I was surrounded then with cotton wool. The next thing is, when one of my daughters is coming to visit me, she's coming with my new grandkid, P.R., and she put a bag on top of the car. She put the bag on top of the car. Some baghead that's just come out of the prison, grabbed the bag, got off. right so then then the thing we found out who the kid was visiting right so we found out his address his dad's address and where the kid who did the thing there sent a firm down the dad was supposed to be ganzified right but we're being diplomatic saying look it's uncouth his son's in we don't want him the dad worrying about the son yeah we want the bag back everything with it an apology from the kid who did it right because I'm not going to take liberties with young kids that have problems yeah so the apology come blah blah blah the governor got on it and said look Paul we don't want we're not aware of who you are what you're capable of right we don't want any problems, blah, blah, blah.

2:44:04He said, you give this kid a miss. He said, then, but I've already made the deal with the dad. We'll let you go to any car. Now, I've got seven years, so any Cat B prison you want to go to. And there's a new one called Loudon Grange. So Loudon Grange, when it first opened, say there was a wing. It had 60 on a wing. Yeah? 60 on a wing. It's like a new private prison, they would only have four monks, four Scousers, four from Nottingham. But because the capital is the capital, yeah, they would allow about 30, 40. The cotton is on there, right? So the same scenario throughout my life, my reputation is somebody that should be six foot odd, yeah, not somebody five foot eight.

2:44:54So everyone's heard it's like the drums are out, there's a gangster coming to Loudon Grains blah blah blah right a big playoff so when I land a lot of sniggering was going on right when they seen me right because I was super fit then down to my fighting weight about 13 stone and so they've gone like that they've looked at me then they've got the Cockneys and Northerners the one went like that he said you alright Cock so I said what do you mean I'm like alright like cock. He said, you liking it here, cock? I'm thinking, what's the cock about? Yeah? Right, but it's cockiness taking the thingy, but I thought, let it go over your head.

2:45:39Now, when I said in the reform schools you learn to turn the other cheek so you don't get done in onslaught, right? I have turned the other cheek thinking, fucking on, cock, yeah? But I'll just let it go over my head, right? But there's no punches being thrown there. yeah so then the last thing at night right he said oh how do you find it here cock so it was the first night i went in themselves thinking about cock i was just what exactly walking the pad all night thinking cock cock cock what's that about thinking how could it's all camera do how to get in in my pad to have it now now because i just have had that much of violence I despise violence.

2:46:28Despise it. Why? Because I've seen what it's done. It's gone from having a nice fight. Now, in my younger days, I was taught to punch with a kink. When my hands are like that. So when I punch, I'll throw a punch up. Then when I'm a couple of inches away, that's when my power comes. So that's just where I connect. Then the power comes. So I'm taught to punch there. then in there I can knock a person out. The only thing that hurts is their pride. I never fall on. I've only ever been done once for violence, and that was against a racist guy who was in the NF. But I've had years of violence, even when 20 years before I wanted to walk away from it, but then I had to show to be a bit of a menace just to survive so they know I'm still capable.

2:47:27If I ended up playing the vicar, saying violence is not worth it, blah, blah, blah, they'll see the weak link and come at me. Yeah, so I had to pretend that I was still a loose cannon like I was when I was 20 or 21, still ready to prove a point, which I wasn't. So anyway, when I got to Loudoun Grange, I was sick to death of violence, yeah? So then, the next day, this kid at dinner time said, as I'm going for dinner, are you having any Walburton's bread with your dinner? Walburton's bread is an oven bread. Yeah, so I thought, oh, God, I've had enough of this clown. I said, what is it with you, mate?

2:48:11I said, the thing, are you saying to me like I'm your comedian? I said, get him a pad now. Get him a pad. He said, we're just having a joke. I said, what do you call it? I said, I'll show you a clock. I'll fill your head in. Then this bear monster turns around and said, I'll have it with you. That's the only thing he did was walk to my pad. He was out for about 10 minutes. I told his mates to get him. So then a couple of weeks after, this was my last fight. Now, there's a thing called violent challenging behavior. right a problem what they now they understand what it is now violent challenging behavior means that you could be violent in a fight right not i can have a fight and talk about the weather it's like you've always got control of yourself yeah but you can be violent in the casinos right where i could be winning 70 grand but i'll still be betting because you're going and you're fighting yourself.

2:49:19You could do 25 press-ups one day. The next day, you'll do 40 press-ups. It's violent, challenging behaviour, yeah? So that's one of the problems. So when I was in the gym one day and I'm on the rowing machine, every Sunday, you used to get one and a half hours in the gym, right? And I would ingrain you instead of just the hour. So I used to do, in an hour and 20 minutes, 20 ,000 metres, on the oil machine, blast it out, yeah? So with this one occasion, this Cockney kid who's just come on the wing, right? Now, the Cockneys was the first to strike people in prison, yeah? He come on the wing, he had a problem with a kid, made the kid put a towel on his face, striped him, yeah, so the blood don't go everywhere.

2:50:13And I'm like you, the way you're shaking your head. I'm thinking fucking hell what's this about how can anyone just put a towel there and they're set to be sniped wow it's barbaric yeah but it's not my problem so on the Sunday when I'm doing 20 ,000 metres he goes on the rowing machine next to me so the day after he come in my pad so he goes like that he said why was you trying to impress me so I said what do you mean he said the way you was rowing so I thought wow, well, I'm not going to say to this kid, look mate, I'm not trying to impress you, look, you've got the wrong bargain, I know he's most probably be ready with his daft standing eye, even though I've never seen a towel, so one hour of him, yeah, one hour of him, picked his head up, opened his jaw, broke his jaw, right, that's, yeah, all bone goof but this kid is off the rails yeah they even they put him on another wing right now i'm half sick i have to half live like this now that's the last fight i've had that was the last fight because after that i looked at myself in the mirror thinking you're going to end up as a stupid pawnster and even on my last sentence even on my last sentence all the young kids that are 10 times more capable than I was, because I've seen it in my own eyes, they had me around Cottonwood, where I was talking about the earlier days where somebody wouldn't get five feet near me.

2:51:49That's what it was like in the strange ways. That's what it was like in all the other prisoners that went. What was it like when you heard Massie get killed? How did you feel? Heart-breaking. Sad? Sad, because Massie was... We've walked into a new generation where Massey would, Massey, believe it or not, got most of his reputation fighting against the system. Massey was in, what do you call it? He's got every right to be called Manchester Mr. Big. Because even, let's say, I'm capable of whatever, right? He's got a hundred like me. but I was standing in front of Massey I would stand as a friend to do whatever for Massey Massey had a firm or the people I knew about that I would go and see Massey and say let's do them before they do you for Massey because that's how much of a friend Massey was What about the Nunans?

2:52:52How tough were they back in the day? They was gangstified On that documentary what Desi Noonan mentioned and half the people, right, when he turned around and said, he's got more guns than the police. Everyone laughed and they thought it was humorous and everything like that, right? But he did have so many lads with guns. He did, he was capable of getting lads to do whatever. Now, Damon was a different clique. Damien run the doors in Manchester. Any gangsters used to go in that hacienda. Damien did what they called a gangster hat. Oh, the way you're mouthing it off, oh, you must be a gangster.

2:53:42There's your hat. Do you want me to get your cigar? They was all capable. But that was part of Massey's firm. Paul Massey, yeah, I know a lad who had seven kids, just like my father had, had seven kids. I walked into this lad's house, on his wall, there's not one picture of his kids. There's those pictures of Massey on his wall. And that's what Massey was about. Let's talk about your book, Paul. You've got your book out now. Where can people buy that? Pardon? Where can people buy your book? Amazon. Yeah, but now it's coming, it's going to be into the shops. Good. And that. I'll leave the link in the description Just before we finish up One of your toughest fights He says it was against one of the Noonans Is that correct?

2:54:36Why it was such a toughest fight? Right, because I've I've never been beat Yeah? I've never been beat But this fight with Damien Noonan When I come out of Lindholm And I was like the fittest I've ever been I was 11 and a half stone and I could put 50p in every stomach muscle and the 50ps will stick out. Super, super fit, right? Now, I would drink my last blood before I was beat. I'd have to put me in a coma, right? Now, Damien was only 21 years of age. He wasn't the 20th owner of people seeing on the hacienda. He was a young kid stepping through life, ready to step through it. Now, I had a little bit of an argument over a parking space.

2:55:27He stole it on me, split my nose down the middle. It was the first man I had to fight what I couldn't see for a couple of minutes. Now, I come back from such a panning for the first couple of minutes, right? And I managed to win that fight. couldn't knock him out managed to win it because he ran out of breath and raised his hands so I come back from the death if he would have been fitter I most probably would have been traumatised for anybody that's watching Paul that's maybe wanting to get involved in a life of crime we used to all watch the films and we used to glamatise it and we used to think oh that's a great life but what advice would you give for anyone who wants to get involved and try and be a bad boy well that's a good question and what I would turn around and say is don't surrender.

2:56:20Where these young kids now, they're getting involved in gangs and when they're involved in gangs, half 90 % of them, because I've seen it on my last census and they're walking around like zombies, 90 % of them have surrendered like I surrendered, thinking I'm going to have a life of crime, I'm going to get a life census, so I might as well get it young. to taking knives out to what it called, to willing to go all the way. So really, they surrendered themselves. There's no need to surrender. If you're a criminal now, you can't drive the nice cars. The police will take it off you. If you're a nice-to-five worker, you can lease it.

2:57:03They should have areas for young criminals to go who are ready to surrender to cool down. They should send them to the other side of the country and say, these are get out. Because I have, now, I've come out after 10 years. I've spent nearly 10 years in prison. I have to get my teeth done because you can't go to a dentist there inside the system. I've got to come out and see about getting my teeth done for 20 grand. These kids are walking zombies. Now, when I see these kids and I see myself in them and what life they're going through, it's heartbreaking. And the easy get out cause for them is not to surrender.

2:57:48See, when you were talking through your interview there, you were talking about you always challenge yourself on accepting to surrender. How do you think your life would have been if you'd made a decision not to surrender and go fuck this and try and make changes? One of my brothers, Michael, is my older brother. Now, people have took him for me because he's six foot. Yeah, he's six foot one. In the early days, they took him for me. He's even got a slash mark down there. Right? Big good looking lad, he's got a slash mark there. Never, he wouldn't even go to the police. Yeah? Now, he's not a criminal.

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2:59:35Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-CONTACTS.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-CONTACTS. Far from a criminal, but he's got his fighting genetics. Like he's got hundreds of road diggers out there. They've got fighting genetics. Get drunk, they'll have fight. Some of them will go home winning. Some will go home losing. But it's all in a night, right? But they're not criminals. My brother, I'll say to my brother in the earlier days, Mike, I've got a ride. I can throw you on a ride where you can earn 60, 70 grand.

3:00:12Michael turned around and said, look, Paul, I'm a nine-to-five worker. What do you call it? I'll have three holidays a year. I'm happy with it. Stick with your life. And that is more or less with the way I was brought up, where you just turn around. and I said don't surrender but also you don't surrender but you've got to use your thinking skills and you've got to think how you're not going to get involved in this is it worthwhile Paul, I've come on a day and tell you a story man, listen, it's been a mad rollercoaster I wish you all the best for the future stay out of trouble and God bless you Paul well do you know a good dentist thank you

3:01:00You