The Dark Truth About P Diddy - Former Bodyguard Gene Deal Tells All

30:57The dude radioed me. He said, yo Gene, I can't breathe. I can't breathe. His name Eddie. Eddie is one of the guys. He's home now. He had this 17 years in the fell fed joints for distribution of cocaine. So he's here to tell this story too. So he said, Gene, I can't breathe. I can't breathe, Gene. And then I ran around the gym, ran downstairs, cut through the basketball court where they were still playing the ball and lining up to do the layups and everything like that. And I pushed the door open, and then people just started coming in. Then I pushed the other door open because the door only went inside.

31:38You had to push it from the inside. They locked from the outside. So I just pushed those doors open. People just started falling in. Then people was coming in. It was crazy. and the one dude that I told him not to hold up because he had nice and smooth, I was going to take them around the other way where the stars was coming in there. He said, no, I got him. He was laid on the floor dead. He was about 6 '2", 300-something pounds. He on the floor dead. So it was crazy, man. Because there was a girl pregnant as well? Yeah, one of the girls that were pregnant. That was this rapper that we know as called Father MC.

32:18It was his girlfriend. You understand? This guy named Tone Wap and me and some other people got her out the glass door when they was bum-rushing her. You know what I'm saying? At the top. We got her away. We was like, yo, ma, go home. This ain't the place for you. Turned around because, you know, everything that was going on, she snuck down the steps and they found her dead too. How do you deal with that, Gene? I never did.

33:16Saving and eligibility vary by state. From athletic stuff like a full court pickup game, swish, to athletic stuff like a half mile stroll. Get those steps in. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic, Sierra's got it. It's crazy I kept myself busy. I just was working, man. The curb was my pillow. the street light was my lamp and I just worked man I was work I was going from one job see I was a parole officer and parole at this time had the best job in the world because you made your own time you had to do 37 and a half hours so you know the the bosses may let you make your own time as long as you did what you were supposed to do and you only had to be in the office one and a half days after week.

34:14And that's when the guys came in for reports, your analysis, and you had to do what they call

34:24an evaluation with your senior. So you could let them know what you're going to do the following week and y 'all make out your schedule. So that was great for me because I would go from that job to another job to another job. And then in between, I could go pick up my kids, you know, take them to school, come home from school from them, and spend a little time with them, and then do what I needed to do. See that incident at the college? See if there was 16 men, do you think it could have been prevented? If it would have set up, yeah. See, what happens is that I learned what people was afraid of.

35:04Right? What's that? Dogs. So, I'm telling you, I would set up a box in one. You know what I'm saying? And I'll have that box so far away from the door, you know, when the people are walking through, you understand, they just going straight in and people are searching them right then and there. And then I have a man with two dogs. I have two men. Each one of them have a dog. And they're keeping the line straight. That's the fear that they put it in us from the Civil Rights era. You understand? You have those dogs out there and you make sure people will get in line and line up. They're not bum-rushing the doors with no dogs.

35:43Did you ever have that conversation with Puff after that event? After that event, he didn't want to have that conversation. Even at the big, he didn't want to have that conversation. So, no, he didn't want to have that conversation. Because he was then fired from Uptown Records. Yes. And how was his life then? Because was he not suicidal at one point? Yeah, he was deferred. D. Ferg say, yo man, we gotta watch out for Puff because now he's become one of the same gang members. He's one of the members of our crew. So D. Ferg, who had a lot of love for him, say, yo, we gotta watch out for dude, man.

36:18He talk about killing himself. And I told D, like, on a funny thing, and I know it ain't funny, I'm like, yo, let his ass kill himself. That's what, shit, he don't listen no way. You know what I'm saying? But I was being sarcastic about that whole situation because being suicidal is not a funny thing. And then he started Bad Boy Records. Well, Bad Boy Records was actually started at Uptown. It was a promotion. It was a... They had a promotional deal. You understand? He was trying to... He brought Big E, he brought Craig Mack and all of them to Uptown, but they wasn't gonna let them do anything.

36:55They had not made records or anything like that at the time. Missy, Missy Elliott, no, who's the girl? Who's the other woman? She's unbelievable. Mary J. Bly. Mary J. Bly, she's fucking amazing. So, because Puff was relatively unknown then, nobody really knew who the fuck he was. No. So how did his beef with Suge Knight start? Well, when he started getting into the record business, excuse me, when he started getting into the record business, him and Suge was tight. They was boys. You know, he learning the business, Suge learning the business. You know, he starting Bad Boy and everything, Suge starting Death Row.

37:34They were puffer fly out to California. Suge, Tupac, all of them, they were cool. This way before all this other bullshit went down. And I think that he wanted to have a, Suge Knight wanted to have a party. or Suge Knight was giving a party so he wanted big and some bad boy artists or whatever like that at the time and Puff was like yo let me get the door you know this is all what I'm hearing I don't know how true this is but this is what I was told about how him and Suge fell out and I'm going to tell you why the beef really happened after that so Puff would not let his artists Bignam perform for free for Suge because Suge was getting money on the door in the whole nine yards.

38:26So I guess Suge fell out from her. That's the story I heard. But I know this for a fact. When Puff wasn't taking care of Misa and was shorting her on the child support or whatever like that, Misa started branching out to the West Coast artists and everything like that. Misa was his kid's mother, his first child's mother, Justin Combs. And she started branching out. And when she went to California with Mary J. Blige and everything like that, she met up with Suge Knight. We seen this magazine, and the magazine had Suge and Misa in it, and Misa had Justin in her arms, and Suge was hugging Misa, and at the bottom, the caption wrote, what the East Coast won't take care of, the West Coast will.

39:17Right? that blew up. Then the source awards and all that other shit like that. That's how it went crazy. How ruthless was Suge? Because he just seemed fucking ruthless. He seemed crazy. But you're only crazy than the people that you have around you. I never thought Suge was that dude like that. Did you never see any of that side of him? I didn't see him like that. I saw him four times and the four times I saw him, it was nothing. You know, it wasn't no stare down or no look or nothing like that. You know, because nine times out of ten, you could tell by a man's eyes and then you want to wear sunglasses.

40:02You ain't that dude if you got glasses on your face all the time and you don't want nobody to see your eyes and see what you're really about. You understand what I'm saying? So when I see a guy with glasses on, I'm at an advantage anyway because I'm going to hit you so hard, those glasses are going to mess something up. You understand? So I never saw him as being that terrifying or anything like that to people, you know, to me. Because he was a bodyguard also. Yeah. And then he ended up, I think, with NWA with Dre and Ice Cube and trying to get himself involved with that. But he ended up with some of the biggest artists on the planet.

40:40Was that fear tactics or was he a good businessman? I think Shug was a great businessman because he came out and got Jodeci and Mary J. Blige out of some of the bull crap that Uptown Records were doing them where they wasn't getting no money, wasn't getting no points, no nothing that was on to them. I think Shug, because he was an educator also, he going to college and, you know, I don't know if he got his degree or not, but he learned the business from somebody enough to know that there were points, you know what I'm saying, and things that were involved, and the artist getting outside the regular advance that was owed to the artist, and he was letting these artists and these people know.

41:24So see the beef between Suge and Puff Daddy, do you think that's the reason why Tupac and Biggie then? Because they were feeding them information? No. I think Pac already knew what type of dude Puff was and I believe that Pac was building Big up so Big could be a part of thug life because he told Big you'd know how Puff was you understand what I'm saying so I think because when Pac went to jail uh, Big did not have any money to help him get out. But he was calling himself the king of New York, and then, you know, they had this persona that he had all his money, which he didn't. When did you first meet Biggie?

42:24Uh, I met... The first time I met Big was actually... I think at his platinum party. What was that like? That was crazy. See, for me, that's the greatest fucking era of that pop, man. Like, that's unbelievable. It's a picture that they had Big, and it said, Big and it's 100 hiked men on stage with him. And you could see me in the middle of all those people just looking at Big, because Puff told me to watch him. You know what I mean? So that's the first time I think I met Big. at his platinum party. Did you know how big... Oh, it's gold, gold and everything. Like, yeah, it got gold, juicy, and all like that.

43:10Did you know how big he was going to be? Well, no, not really. Because I was running with Puff. And a lot of times Puff wasn't around Big. You understand what I'm saying? Because Big was doing his own thing with the Junior Mafia and the different people like that. So when Puff needed to go out of town or go someplace, I would be with him. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling? Smart move. Another smart move? Getting help from one of State Farm's 19 ,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan.

43:49Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. From athletic stuff like a full-court pickup game, swish to athletic-ish stuff, like a half-mile stroll. Get those steps in. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. I think, let me see, it was probably at the Howard University campus when I met Big and really chilled with him and had fun with him. That was probably the first time.

44:26And then that gold party was something later on. But I think it was at Howard University. Is that the bit that was in the movie when it came out? Was that the bit that was in the movie when it was at the university? When I think it sang Bullshit and Party? Yeah, I think so, yeah. So, see, when you're meeting all these people, did you not have the incline that, okay, they're going to be as big? I didn't know Big was going to be a star. I felt that he was a star like that until his whole album was done and he was getting all these accolades and then we was on stage. because I had so much going on in my own life.

45:03You understand? When I wasn't bodyguarding Puffin, you got to realize I was still a parole officer. I still ran complexes in New York. That was Eastchester Housing. That was Lambert Housing. That was Taino Towers. They were some of the baddest complexes where people were living there where a lot of drugs was being sold in the whole nine yards. So I was still working with the cops, working with people. You know what I'm saying? to try to make their quality of life a lot better around there. So I didn't have time to really, okay, this guy's a star, this guy, this guy, this guy, and the third. But we were in Cincinnati.

45:41I swear for a living God. The Puff said, Eugene, I need you to be on stage with Big. So I went out on stage first. And Big and Lil' Ceas was in the back, and they were doing this dance like,

46:01kid and play. You know when they do the feet back and forth like that. I said yo this fat motherfucker can dance. I was like yo this fat motherfucker can dance. He was doing that shit real good. I was like damn. So then the song going

46:28and then Big was back on the mic going,

46:36just making noise like that. And then he just came out, who the fuck is this? Paging me at 546 in the morning, crackadawning, and I'm yawning. Yo, when he came out there, and I'm on stage, Yo, some shit hit me like this. And I mean, like, just the vibration from the audience and everything like that. And I was like, yo, this motherfucker is a star. He's a star. That's when I realized he was that big. So he went puffed because obviously he ended up involved in hip-hop and doing his own stuff. Was he writing his own music before he met Biggie or that? or did he want involved once Biggie came into his life?

47:19Did he have any... Puff wasn't writing no music or nothing like that. Puff never wrote no music. He told you. I don't write music, I write checks. Yeah, because he ended up involved, and like you say, it was at the SOS Awards. Yeah. How was that when Suge went on stage and says, if you don't want your producer dancing in the video? That wasn't... I didn't know anything about that. I wasn't there. They called me to go to the tunnel with them. You understand? You know what I'm saying? Kirk at Kirk Burroughs, they called me your gene. Pope, I want you to be at the tunnel. Because the tunnel is wild.

47:51Like, you know, it's like gladiator school. You know what I mean? You're going to fight. The bouncers are going to rob you. They're going to beat you up. So you got to have your stuff on the ball when you go to the tunnel. So we went to the tunnel. There wasn't no beef or nothing like that. You know, and then they had that little incident. in Atlanta, and I came on full-back, full-time, messing with them. What was the incident when you were with Puff and you seen Suge and Puff ran? Oh, that was at the Soul Train Awards. Tupac was alive then. Yeah. What happened that night? Um... I think Big had...

48:38Did Big perform? Was it... Tupac was alive? Yeah. Big had performed. Right? Right. And he used my shoes. We were all in the locker room and I'm... Yeah, well, the dressing room and everything like that. And this is the story that K.O. Coakland stole from me and put it in the movie. A movie, yeah. I've seen that. His shoes, doesn't fit in how they get shoes. Yeah. Was that your shoes? Those are my shoes. What happened was is that K.O. Coakland, he had already wrote the book. And if that was an intricate part of the movie, why didn't he have it in his book? Because his book was a portrayal of the movie Notorious.

49:14You understand? So he said he wished he had talked to me before, and I had told him that I was going to put that in my book because he was asking me, what was some of the craziest thing that happened to you and Big? You know what I'm saying? I told him the part about the shoes. We were backstage, and they had bought Big a size 12, right? And him buying them a size 12. Big is a 14 E. You know, I said, why? I'm a 14 D. You can squeeze in a 14 D, but you can't squeeze in those 12 D. So, we sitting up there, and these people called 5 ,001. They were doing all the clothes for all hip-hop artists. Master P made them real famous, but they had got them the wrong type of shoes.

50:07So, Big was like, yo, F this, I'm going to do it Brooklyn style. I'm going out in my Timbs. He had some yellow Timbs on. He was going to go out there on stage. And Puff told the dude, say, yo, if he go out there on those stage with those Timbs on, nigga, it's over. You ain't going to work. You ain't going to do this. I ain't paying y 'all for shit.

50:32So, they said, I said, yo, Gene, what size you were? I said, 14. 14D. I had just bought these shoes. I still got them. They gait us from Maury's. $800. Got them from Chavanate's. So they were blue. And they go gray with this suit. So then they was like, yo, let Big wear them shoes. Yo man, what we gotta give you? I said, make me an outfit. Right? Shit that I never got. So remember, if anybody in the industry say they gonna do something for you, get your shit first. Get it first. Don't take their word, their word ain't worth shit. You know what I'm saying? So Big used the shoes, he performed in the shoes, he got shooting so that Mia Puff was watching.

51:33No, no, was it Mia Puff? No, no, I was watching and I was sitting right behind, I think, Tamia, Grant Hill's wife. Oh my God. I could have got a charge right there. My man. She was like, oh my God, you ever sat close to a woman and then her essence and everything like the perfume she had on, the way she looked. I was like, damn, he got to be one of the luckiest men in the world. You know what I'm saying? So it was over with. Went backstage. He go big, sitting up there with my$800 shoes on and he got He's leaning on the back of them like they flip-flopped. I was like, yo man, what the fuck is wrong with you?

52:26What the fuck? He's like, yo D-Rock, you ain't gonna be talking to me. I'ma talk to your men. Give me my mother fucker shoes, man, like that. You know what I'm saying? So I got the shoes back and when we got the shoes back, I kept the 12s anyway. and me and Puff were just making our rounds. Big N was leaving. So we hear on the microphone, there's an altercation at the front with Bad Boy and Death Row. So me and Puff, Jack, we start running towards that. When we running towards that, we get surrounded by a group of FOI members. You understand? that and this one dude in his yellow suit is talking to Puff real greasy.

53:14So then I'm looking at this dude and I got Puff like this, but I'm looking at this dude. He was telling Puff about some money, some type of situation. And I didn't know what the hell he was talking about. And then next thing you know, Mustafa, who was Farrakhan's son, who's the captain of the FOI, who's over all the security and all the FOI members, you understand what I'm saying? That has to do with security. came over and Puff said, yo, Mustafa, would you talk to this brother for me right quick? And so Mustafa said, yo, brother. So the dude was still going at Mustafa hard. And then Mustafa said, yo, brother.

53:55In a calm voice again. And then the dude, he didn't stop. I was like, yo, Mustafa said, brother, and got up in this face like this. Then you see FOI members coming from everywhere. It was crazy. So we got up out of there and we started going to the door, to the front door. Sierra has all the best active and outdoor brands you need. From athletic stuff, like a full-court pickup game, swish, to athletic-ish stuff, like a half-mile stroll. Get those steps in. And from morning hikes up the mountain trail, good pace, to nighttime ghost stories from the camping chair. What a twist. Whatever level of active, Sierra loves it all.

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56:00As we go to the front door, now, it's a corridor with steps that are coming up. So I guess Big and Tupac had just had their little altercation because I took an officer who was a parole officer out there with me, Bernard Brown. We call him Big Bunny. 6 '5", 300-something pounds. We out there, and he said that Tupac said, Westside, Westside, and Big told him, say, yo, I ain't scared of this motherfucking ass, but yet and still, when they came out, one of Big's partner,

56:42sorry about this, one of Big's partner, his name is, is a crip, his name is C. Gutter, C. Gutter pulls a gun on shit at night, The whole crowd, FOIs, they stopped it and get in between of it. Big them get in their car and they leave. So they out front. I see them. Puff is behind me. We walking that way now. So...

57:18And I was hugging myself, you know, because I had to be real close to my girlfriends. And I looked back at Puff and I said, Puff, don't worry, I got these cats, bro. Ain't nothing gonna happen. And he didn't say anything. And then I looked back. He wasn't there. Then I looked that way. He had took off running and jumped down the corridor, right in back of the TV vans. So I stood right there on the corridor because I wasn't jumping down that shit right there. And I put my back against the wall and shook them. They was coming up the steps and they just walked past us, walked past me, and I seen Puff running in between the media vans.

58:08What do you think when a man does that runs? Obviously, you're there to protect, you're the security anyway, but when someone runs like that, do you lose respect for them? I wouldn't lose respect for them because that's his choice. And then it actually was God sent because he saved me for doing something that I shouldn't have been doing in the first place and that I would have done with no problem. Would you have died for him? I would have died for him plenty of times. Just loyal to your job, loyal to what you were doing? are loyal to him? At one time, and people are going to say I'm crazy for this, something came over me and said that Puff was making people's dreams come true, and I had to do whatever I had to do to save him so these people could have their dreams come true, because I knew what it was for somebody to take your dream.

59:05So I would have did anything to protect them at one time. Yeah, I can respect that, though, because back then as well, people's dreams were being made. I don't know if people were getting used and money took off. I don't know the ins and outs. I was never there. But obviously you can read things in the press and go with what other people are saying. But people were living their dreams back then, no matter what you say about Puff. He was changing lives. He was getting people off the streets. But even though people were making him, he was also making them. Would you agree with that? Well, you have to agree with that.

59:36but they didn't think that in the interim their dreams coming true, they still was going to be broke. You understand? You know, to get somebody, if you played sports to have people cheer for you by the thousands because you made a basket, you understand? Or you made a hit song.

59:59That kind of feeling everybody is not privileged to. You understand what I'm saying? everybody's not privileged of being on the stage, whether it's that of sports or that in music. You understand? When you have somebody that make that come true for you and your dream come true, but then your rent ain't paid and they driving in a Mercedes, it's kind of effed up. So he was making a part of their dream come true, but I don't believe they thought they was going to be hungry in the interim of that. Do you think that's lack of knowledge of getting money and buying the big watch and the big car but leaving your bills unpaid?

1:00:53They're trying to live the high life, but they've not really got the money to be doing so yet? Yeah, but regular people do that same shit, too. Everybody does that. You know what I'm saying? Regular people do that shit, too, man. You know, it's just saying on the musicians or the athletes, regular people do that shit too. Yeah. So after that, he runs away. Suge, how was the relationship between Biggie and Pac? Well, I spoke to Big at the park. Was Pac dead then? At the Winnebago? Yeah. And Big tried to tell me that he didn't know why Pac was upset with him. but I knew why Pac was upset with him.

1:01:37Because he had signed with Puff and he had claimed to be something that he wasn't. So why does that upset him? Because, like, if you're supposed to be my man and you're the king of New York, and my girls don't come to you for some money because I'm trying to get a lawyer to get out of jail for something I didn't do. If you're the king of New York and you getting all his money, why you can't help me when I helped you be the king? How much did Pac kill Biggie? Well, you got to realize is that look at Big's flow. Look how Big was rapping before he got with Pac. Look at the party and bullshit. Right?

1:02:25You understand? Big was not talking about I'm Big Papa. I stay Coogee down to my socks. Rings and watch filled with rocks. You understand? He took what you could call Tupac's game plan. Money, cars, holes, and bros. You know what I'm saying? And use that formula from partying bullshit. You understand? Used this formula and changed it into I'm Big Papa. I'm getting the money. I'm getting the hoes. I'm getting the cars. And I'm rocking the jewels. He used that formula. 1994 when Pat gets shot, I think at the recording studio, how did that change everything with everyone?

1:03:28Well, I guess it put people on alert that this could happen to you too. It should have let people know not to be involved with gang guys. Because I've been around people who spoke about that. Jamie Foxx and Ice Cube talked about it. When you bring the gang faction and the people who live that gang life into your business like that, they have a whole different perspective about life than you do. They're, you know, they're living day by day and they'll kill you over color. and why did Pac did T blame Biggie and Puff at the start or was that later on because would they get shot four or five times yeah but uh he didn't blame Biggie then because he actually knew Biggie ain't had nothing to do with it because the next day Big went up there with this other guy that I know and got the gun out the piano they went to the hospital they wouldn't let Big see Pac, you understand?

1:04:41But they let Pac know Big A had nothing to do with it. He had the gun and whatever like that. I think he probably just used that as a method to bring attention to the labels and to sell records. Because Puffy's a businessman. He knows how to play the game. That's why he put out who shot you. Yeah, I was just about to say that. So who shot you? But it's very... I understand that because of the shooting and how much traffic it would have got towards that. But not when it's friends involved, not when it's people don't really know, and then people would automatically go to, it must have been them who shot him.

1:05:18Like, it's a very dangerous game. Why play that game at all? You said it yourself, and I don't think I could say it any better than that. He's a businessman. And he know that's gonna bring... countless and... You can't even count the attention it's gonna bring to the label, to the song. It was actually against LL Cool J. Big was probably saying that against LL Cool J. You know what I'm saying?

1:05:52But Puff knew that people was gonna think it was gonna be from Tupac. He didn't like Tupac at all. Why? I don't know. Jealousy? it's either jealousy or something went down between them two. I say this all the time that he wanted to, any girl that Pac was with, he had to have her. You understand? And he got her, got him. He, I really can't say, I couldn't even tell you, I couldn't fathom to believe, you know, what was the reason why they hated each other so much. But after Pac was shot, we saw Pac up in Roseland. He had this stuff in the sling. A dude lit a cigarette for him. He got a cigarette, pulled it to his mouth, and a dude lit it for him.

1:06:46I just started laughing. He all said, ooh, what kind of shit is this, man? Lighting a cigarette. But then I forgot he was injured, you know what I mean? Yeah, but if he's going after all his ex-girlfriends or whatever, that's a sign of jealousy. That's a sign of want to be him. Well, you know that to be true because the same thing that Pac said before, he said at the Grammy speech, when he got his Grammy, he said the same shit that Pac said. So, listen, I can't tell you the reason why, but there's certain actions you've seen, like when Pac was wearing the Facete shirt, then Puff come out with the Facete, same Facete shirt that Pac had on.

1:07:28You know what I'm saying? I don't know, man. How did that change? Because obviously the East Coast, the West Coast, it kind of started a war. Did you see things change after that? Security was heightened. Certain places that we had to go and we had to do, you know, when you do rounds before you go to those places to make sure everything is straight.

1:08:01Everybody wearing a bulletproof vest, you know. It was crazy. People going on the earliest, you know, staying at hotels on the earliest names and stuff. How was it when Tupac released his diss track? Because that was ruthless. Obviously, you've got Ice Cube, you've got LL Cool J who's done the diss tracks many years before. But that was up there as one of the most ruthless because obviously I fucked your bitch. Like, how was that? Well, I can say it didn't bother me. It didn't bother me, but, and I liked the song anyway.

1:08:48But I used to hear Big say, yo, next time somebody say something about me, I'm going to tear their ass up. So when I hear other people saying that Big didn't want to, yo, Big wanted to get back at Pac so bad that he did it in a sneaky way. And I think that Long Kiss Goodnight was his way of getting his revenge back on Pop. You know what I mean? Why did he not release a diss track in response? He did, if you look at Long Kiss Goodnight. You think so? But yeah, that's definitely talking about Pop. You know what I'm saying?

1:09:31But I think that he didn't do a diss track right at him like that was because that was something Puff was telling him to. And you got to realize Puff owned his marketing and his publishing and B wanted it back. So he listened to Puff more than he really wanted to. Was Puff and Phil control? Was he in full control? Somewhat. Well, as close as what the media make, the movies make, was Puff and Biggie close? I don't think so. I don't think so at all. Could Biggie have been getting used? He owns his marketing. He owns his publishing. Now, still? Well, I think he sold it or whatever. He gave it to the Wallace family after he used it for so many years.

1:10:20But I don't know the circumstances of it now. but you got to realize if you own somebody publishing and somebody marketing, you're going to get way more money than what you paid for. You know what I'm saying? So Biggie had no money? Even after Juicy, even after the first album? He died broke, man. Biggie died broke. The money he got was from, I think, Life After Death album, but he didn't get a chance to see it. That's sad, isn't it, man? Yeah, it was crazy, man. It was just crazy just being with him that whole day and he telling me his dreams and telling me what he wanted to do and how he was going to do it.

1:11:04And it was crazy. And then to see none of that come true. See the hate between Biggie and Park the way it ended up? Did that affect Biggie? Oh, yeah. He was affected by that crazy. You understand? that when he was telling me the story about he didn't have no money to help Pac with his legal trouble and everything like that, and he had to sell his publishing to Puff for about$200 ,000. He also had just got a deal that he never got a chance to see for$62 $32 million from Capitol and Atlantic Records, you know, with all the groups he had. He didn't get a chance to even sign the documents to say I agree to this and everything.

1:11:58Because he wrote everybody's music, did they not? Yeah. Yes, he did. He said Lil' Kim used to write too. Lil' Kim could write, but you know, he got to make sure everything right. He wrote Lil' C's down that whole album and then he sourced it out to Mace, Cam 'ron, probably some other rappers and everything like that. How was Faith Evans? How was she? I wasn't around Faith only a couple of times. You know, I wasn't around her that much. Did you see the change in Puff from when you first met him to a few years later when he kind of became one of the top boys in that industry? No doubt. No doubt.

1:12:33Does money and fame change people a lot? Oh, come on. Why wouldn't it? You understand? To change your address, change the car you drive, the watch you have on. So, you know, there's very few people that don't change, but it's how you change that's important. Do you see a lot of people, more people change for the worst than actually the better? I've seen that the people who was never used to anything and the time that they get it, they've changed for the worse. So, Tupac was in prison. He reached out to Biggie to see if he could bail him out, and that's where they... I don't think Tupac reached out per se, but Jasmine Guy and Jada and somebody else.

1:13:22It was another young lady that was collecting money for him, trying to get the money up for his release. Was Biggie too embarrassed to say that he had no money? He didn't have it. You know what I'm saying? Did they know this though, no? Uh, well, he had something that was better than money, but people wouldn't allow him to use his talent to do a fundraiser for Pac. You understand? Because the news would have been like he doing a fundraiser for a rapist. You understand what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. You can understand that as well, though. No matter if Pac says he's innocent, it's for the business side of things.

1:14:05if he was guilty then it doesn't look business for you like you say you're supporting a rapist so you can understand it on a business side but if that's your friend you've got to stay loyal and stay behind them 100 % no matter what anybody says no doubt so he gets shot the beef is very heightened then Pac's in Vegas when Pac gets when Pac 2 Pac gets shot again what's what he's thinking Well, we got a call that night, the night Pac got shot.

1:14:42And they said, yo, this guy named Daddy told us, yo, they rolled up on him, and they got them, they got them guys, they got them, they got them like that. And I was like, oh, shit. He said, we'll tell you when we get back. I never said this to nobody. Nobody gonna ever believe it. And I was told this, that it wasn't only a driver that shot Tupac, or if it was a driver who shot Tupac. You know, you hear a lot of stories like, I thought it was Dre, I thought they was in the car, but then I also thought, because I was told by somebody who was there, that somebody ran up on the car and shot Tupac.

1:15:31And I never told nobody. I told three or four people, but I never let them release that to anybody or tell, you know, you can't tell nobody that. You understand like that? And then one of the persons I told was a female. She said, shouldn't I told her the same thing? Why's the whole thing been so messy? Why the, you're shot in the middle of fucking Vegas, but why is it being, obviously you get your conspiracy theorist and rightly so, because it is a bit, It's very strange for someone to get killed at that time in front of so many people, but yet no one was ever convicted. I know. Is it Orlando Anderson?

1:16:10Right. And I think, who's the guy? Is it Keefy D? Keefy D, Dre. He seems fucking offy. Why would you sit in a podcast and admit shit that you've done? It just seems very messy. I think that on Keefe D behalf is that he had officers that released that information and they wasn't supposed to release that information to nobody. And they did it. And because he was selling books. And you got to realize this guy was one of the top drug dealers on the West Coast. you know saying he doing a hundred keys a week or better you know what i'm saying so if he's doing all those type of you know he's selling all those type of drugs and then he gets to the point where he go to jail he come out and he's not doing that well he's using that method to sell his book now this cop already put that information out i'm gonna go with it i know i didn't do it because did he not sign something in the police station that would keep him out?

1:17:24Well, this is a Vegas case. Yeah. This is California talking that stuff. You understand what I'm saying? California can't give me nothing to stop me from going to jail in Vegas if Vegas want me, if Vegas have evidence against me. I think all of it is just circumstances of her say. When was it Puff ran in and said somebody needs to die? He says Park needs to die, Biggie needs to die. Well, that's the night he ran. But why shout Biggie needs to die? Yo, I still cannot tell you to this day why he said Big need to die. I can only tell you what I think. You understand? I think that Big was robbing Puff like Puff had taken from Big.

1:18:26He took his marketing, which was legal. He may not have known how important it was. He took his publishing, which was legal. he may not know how important his publishing was. You understand? Taking those things upset Big because Big found out how important those things were him to move on. Because like I told you, he got that$62 million deal. You know? So now, puff found out that big was writing all those things and what was he not doing he wasn't putting it his name he's putting in titiana his daughter and other people name letting little kid still keeping the credits for those songs and shit so now who gets mad puff gets mad.

1:19:28He gets upset. I gave you$200 ,000 and now I can't get my money back because you writing this stuff for people but you ain't saying you writing? Alright. I don't give a fuck if Pac got to die. I don't give a fuck if Big got to die. Shouldn't I can go to jail? He's fed up.

1:19:58Because that's not friends then. Understand the business side of things. Puff's a businessman 100%. But if that's your friend and you're taking his rights to his music, there's no loyalty there. He should be teaching him. They two have come up together. He should. We've never. Puff started before him. But he should be educating him how to make more work to do. He did. Big told me. Big said, I can't be mad at him. He taught me how to get money. Who was Big doing it to? Little C's, Junior Mafia, and Little Skilman. Doing it to each other. Yeah. It just seems a fucking ruthless industry. Where everybody's fucking everybody.

1:20:38Right. But it just seems strange. Could Puff have been involved in Tupac's murder or Biggie's murder? I think that when you set up an atmosphere for something to happen, how involved are you you set up the atmosphere you put people in positions to get hurt he knew that somebody was going to do something he was told I told him before we left I told him Mace told him

1:21:17see people ain't telling see everybody think that Gene Deal is the only one know this shit. I'm not the only one that's noticed and privileged to this information. I'm the only one that's speaking on it and has spoke on it. Now, people are coming out gradually, but when Puff set up an atmosphere for somebody to get hurt and they get hurt, don't you take some responsibility for that? Is that more tactics? He's not going to pull the trigger. He might not even pay someone to do so, but like releasing that song, Who Shot You? That creates an atmosphere, creating certain things and planting seeds in somebody else's mind to be number one where Tupac ends up getting killed, Biggie ends up getting killed.

1:22:04Who becomes number one? He did it. Puff Daddy. Could that have been tactics for then to take off the people who were competition for him to take it all? Or is that a bit far-fetched? Well, I'm trying to believe that he's not that bright.

1:22:25But anything's possible. But he's not fucking stupid. No, he's not. He don't get to the position that he is being stupid. You can just listen to other people and listen to what people are saying. Because somebody told that. Somebody told Puff, Pac got to die, Big got to die. And shit not going to go to jail. You know, these people playing 25 years in advance. Had Pac and Big still been alive today, come on, brother. You and I both know how strong they would have been. How heartbreaking is that to see two men at the height of their powers just still young kids? People forget they're only in their 20s.

1:23:09What were they, 24, 26? Yeah. Like, two young boys, unbelievable talent. Tupac's Listen I still listen to both albums I still listen to both their albums to this day As their stuff is timeless It's unbelievable for young kids To then be getting used against each other That's how big they were Because it did basically start a lot in house But it's sad to think That they've been played It's sad to think that people have Made them go against each other Made them fight each other For who's gain Somebody's gaining but it ain't fucking them right but the crazy part of it is is that and I look back and I see that the people that were close to be and how they were like Judas after all he had did for them and put them in a position to be where they are how they how it It only took 30 pieces of silver to get them to be traitors against them.

1:24:17Does that upset you? It upset me a lot. Tell the truth. Come out. Let people know. Like, I used to blame myself. I used to blame myself. I went through years, man, blaming myself because I went to that party with them. Puff said, yo, Gene, you ain't got to go. I said, man, somebody going to kill us tonight. I sat at a table and told all the guys that was around her, they coming to kill us tonight.

1:24:57And D-Max said, yo, we lock and load the gun. we lock and load together. I don't see nobody locking and loading nothing. I went to Puff, prior to telling those guys, I went up there, Puff sat at the top of the steps. I'm looking up at Puff. I said, yo, Puff, I got some intel. He said, what's up, G? Kim come right on the side of him. She's in a white robe. Puff is in a white robe. His white robe says B8 because he had took it from Beverly Hills Hotel. So I said to him, I said, yo, my man, I'm looking at him. I said, my man, I got some intel. These guys are coming to kill us tonight at the party.

1:25:37Yo, Gene, you ain't got to go. I'm the only one that got it with him. You know what I mean? I'm the only one that can distribute it if I need to. But you tell me I don't have to go? I felt that small. I go in, I call my man, slick. Shay pick up the phone, Sean pick up the phone from the block. Because back in New York City, we used to have pay phones. So I used Andre Harrell number. If you go by his number on that day, you'll see I called 12th Street because that's a phone record. It's still there. You understand? That would be as long as they got phone records, they could go back and look at Andre Harrell house number and see on March the 8th before March 9th, I called 112th Street and 8th Avenue pay phone.

1:26:35I said, yo, Slick, I spoke to certain people. They told me that these guys are coming to kill us tonight. He said, I said, yo, Puff said, I ain't got to go. Slick a gangster. He said, don't go there. Fuck them. You know what I'm do them kids like that i can't do these kids like that man he said yo man listen here all i'm saying if something happened to you he gonna have somebody to answer to when he get back here he said yo listen here slick told me always you know failure to prepare is preparing to fail don't nothing be the ambush failure to prepare is preparing to fail don't nothing be the ambush that means keep your head on the swivel.

1:27:24See that night then? See when he's telling you not to be there? Could he have potentially been involved? Like I said, if you set up an atmosphere, you're just as much as wrong. It's crazy how we come out of party. We used to jump in the car. We gone. We waited. We waited. But see, when I spoke to the FBI and I spoke to people, they led me to believe that there were more than one or two people that was trying to kill us out there that night. Those guys who wanted... see, I believe it was those guys who wanted to get back at Big for that ambush over in Red Hook when they van got shot up. Because those are the guys who told Mace that Puff and Big had to worry about something.

1:28:29So Puff may have made a phone call to them. You understand? Saying, yo, listen here, man. I ain't have shit to do with that shit that happened in Red Hook. Big gonna be at the party. y 'all could talk to him then. He could have done that. Because Mace didn't come to the party either. But Mace knew about that because Mace told me about it. Do you understand what I'm saying? The guys he played ball with, they were the Crips and stuff like that. I think they were those guys called the Dog Pound. Right. So they have told Mace, you good Mace, but Puffin' Big ain't. so I know Mace told Puff. Mace didn't tell Big.

1:29:20You understand? So I know what Puff is going to do. He's going to make a phone call to those guys and say, yo, man, listen here. I'm going to exonerate myself. I ain't got shit to do with that. You heard me? We going to this party, the party that I tried to talk about, they're going, the vibe party. now I blamed myself for years as I said until I heard the president of Motown the former president of Motown or vice president of Motown Clark Kent and Ann Rivera biggish partner say these things Ann Rivera said I had called Karen Hunter and I think Janet Jackamy that he was going to meet Big to the hotel before he went to London.

1:30:15Supposed to be going to London, your neck of the woods. They were supposed to be meeting him. Clark Kent said, I was in Big's hotel. And I asked him, what are you doing tonight? He said, I'm going to this party that D-Rock, his man, and Puff set up for me to go. He told Clark Kent that. Clark Kent on the Art of Dialogue said that shit. Yo, when Clark Kent said that shit, my man, all the pain that I had inside me, everything that fucked me up for years, because that kid died there, All that shit came out of me. I used to blame my fucking self. Do you understand what I'm saying? I used to blame myself.

1:31:19So when I heard Clark Kent say that, that he told Big not to go, it's nothing I could have fucking said to that kid because when I looked at him, I said, yo, Big, they coming to kill us tonight. Lil C's, he hadn't been around for a whole week. Go ahead with that old cop shit, Gene. You understand? But they don't know throughout the years that the shit that was on me every time I hear this kid music, because I knew God put me there. You understand? God put me there. But I had the wrong principle. I had puff. So when we got to that light, instead of stopping at the light, as soon as I got in the car, Kenny, run the next three lights.

1:32:11Run the next three lights, Kenny. We checked through the light. The killer was right there at the light. He had just walked up to me less than five minutes prior to killing the Notorious Big. Do you understand? He was right there at the light, parked. It wasn't no drive-by. Don't listen to these people. It was no drive by. The guy was parked in the car. When Big stopped at the light, he pulled out the parking space, pow, pow, pow, pow, pow, pow, turned the corner. So you were told to drive through the light? I told our driver to drive through the light. And yo, like when I was telling Steve, Steve, right?

1:33:04I told Steve, I said, yo, Steve, Steve said, Well, you have law enforcement, is you part of the military? I said, no. My job as being a New York State parole officer, we trained with a lot of agencies, different agencies. They gave courses and everything like that. And this is how good God is. Two weeks prior to going to California, I took a class called interrogation and surveillance. and in that class, we had to learn how to interrogate somebody. We had to learn how to do certain surveillance. We had to learn, and they taught us tricks where you could find out if somebody following you. And in that course, it said, take three lights, run three right.

1:34:00Make three rights, take three lights. You understand? If you take three rights, where are you at? Back to where you started. Right where you started. And if that motherfucking car is right behind you, if that car is behind you, somebody following you. If you run three lights and that person run those same three lights that you ran, somebody's following you. So I just, when I got in the car, because I wanted to ride on the side of the car. back then back then i'm 265 right now i'm 320 you know what i mean so i want to ride on side of the car with my gun out like as if you were fucking watching the president yeah i would have been the first one to been shot but everything you've says gene even listening to your story he's talking about the college night you said people are going to die you said to big somebody's gonna die did you have a feeling are you connected to something where you feel that something's gonna go wrong or do you always think that way nothing be there bro and I don't always think that way it wasn't like you're saying that shit every day where eventually you're gonna get one out of every hundred right if you have people with street knowledge and gangsters Chas told me, yo, they coming at y 'all.

1:35:28You understand? The dude that was hanging with Joe to see, yo, we ain't going to the party, bruh. It's going to be some bullshit. You understand what I'm saying? It don't take a rocket scientist. You understand what I'm saying? To see something and notice something going to happen. And it's a possibility. Why wasn't he more protected? Because Puff wouldn't pay for security. I told Kirk Burroughs, man, we need more security, bruh. How the hell you just got me, Kenny, for Puff, and you got Paul as somebody for Big, but all them, they got entourage, they got other people. Come on, bruh. Four people.

1:36:14See, when Biggie dies, does that enhance Puff's stock with the rights he's got from Biggie's Music. Oh, come on. He sold 10 million. He sold 10 million. Big got like 7 million out of 10 million albums. Yo, if you sell 10 million albums, right, that's about$200 million. $180 million, something like that. You know what I mean? Because the Michael Jackson thing as well, because I think Sony owed him over a billion in his rights and he had the Beatles' rights. I think he had Eminem's rights. Obviously, he can get a conspiracy theorist, but if he's gone, they get the rights back. Right. People kill each other for fucking$10.

1:36:58Right. Never mind a hundred million, a billion. Ain't no, ain't no, ain't no, man. Michael Jackson was, we know that dude was paid to murk him. No, allegedly. I'd say allegedly, but there's no way, man. That doctor don't know what he's doing. and Michael Jackson just go up and just die like that, man. He, not only that, what about the Marvel thing? He had made the, he was making a deal with Marvel Comics. There's a lot of stuff that was going on with Michael Jackson. Yeah. Does it, do you question a lot? Because that life, it seems glamorous, but I interview enough people now to realize how fucked up it was and no trust, no love.

1:37:41Everybody's out for themselves. Everybody would fuck you over. everybody would fuck your women. Like, what the fuck is that all about? But now, that's their, that's the mentality. That's what that game is about. You understand? I used to see Puff run through so many girls, but if he ain't had a dime, he wouldn't be able to do that. I used to see him run through dudes that he would smile on their face and then F'd their girls. That's not a nice person. I don't think about a nice person, but that's not... Yeah, but it's not a feeling. It's just a fucked up dude. Yeah, that's not loyalty. There's no love there.

1:38:20They just seem fucked up. And the woman is fucked up as well. Yeah. So you were there when Biggie gets shot. What happens then?

1:38:34Me and Tone jump in the car, and we try to chase the driver, but we couldn't get close enough to do anything. So I said, Tony, let's go back and set up a... I said, Tony, we got to get back. You know what I'm saying? So we could set up. Well, when the pop cops come, they could take Big to the hospital, whatever like that. So when we get back, Puff was like, yo, Kenny, you know where the hospital at? And Kenny said yes, and we drive Big to the hospital. Because you had him in your arms, is that correct? Yeah, that's when we got him to the hospital. We got him to the hospital, which it took us a long time to get there, man.

1:39:15I don't know. Shit. He took a half an hour to get to someplace that was actually two blocks away. And Kenny's from California, so he'd never been asked about that one. Cena signed that, I think, was two blocks away, and we went someplace else, or vice versa. It was a hospital two blocks away, and we end up going, you know, about half an hour away from the scene. Was he still alive at that moment? Well, I don't know. Uh, the last thing I heard Big say was, just do it. Kenny said, I'm gonna get you to the hospital, Big. And Big said, just do it. And then I told people, don't let them go to sleep.

1:39:58Whatever you do, don't let them go to sleep. Keep them up. Don't let them go to sleep. when we got to the hospital, somebody ran into the hospital, they got a gurney, and we pulled him out. And when we pulled the body out, that's when I seen his pants was saturated, appeared to be urine, and I could smell the feces. And I just, when I grabbed him, And then I just dropped his leg. And they looked at me. They said, yo, Gene. And I was like, I just grabbed him up. And we put him on the gurney. And that was like 400 pounds of dead weight, man. So put him up on the gurney. And then they rolled him in there.

1:40:49And Paul looked at me. I said, yo, man, that nigga dead. Excuse me. I said, yo, that brother's dead. And he said,

1:41:00Nah, he just It was shock, Gene It was shock, bruh He was just shock He just been shot He ain't dead I said, bruh, he dead He pissed the shit on himself And Started getting phone calls from everybody I'm making phone calls How do you go over that, Gene? Because you seem to have seen a lot of pain and death In your life as well like I said, I just kept myself busy. I had to raise three daughters.

1:41:36I never had much of nothing. That was everything I got I worked for. You know what I'm saying? And I don't mean nobody had to give me nothing. You know what I'm saying? But I wanted to have a different life. So at one time, I was putting it all into my work. I write poetry.

1:42:01I was out to help people. So I use my ability to help somebody change their life. You know, so being a parole officer is not just, yo, piss in this cup, or what time you're going to be at home and all that. It has a lot to do with how could I help you change your life to change your family life so they can be proud of you and you can be proud of yourself. So I put all my energy in doing that. And what happened after Biggie got killed? How was life then? How was life when Biggie got killed? Oh, it was terrible. You know, my car being vandalized. You know, people wouldn't run up on me. I ain't the one you want to run up on, you know what I'm saying, at that time.

1:42:55I was still... I still had this, like...

1:43:03I would really fuck you up type of attitude. You know what I'm saying? So you not coming with me with no crazy shit. So if you understand what I'm talking about. Yeah, of course.

1:43:16But the vandalism of my house, you know, of my cars and shit like that, it was like, that shit was crazy. Did you get blamed for it? Oh? Did you get blamed for it because you were the security guard? Oh, yeah. Puff didn't try to, you know, I was secure. I was Puff principal. Puff was my principal. But they tried to throw it off like I had, it was my fault. I was I didn't shoot I didn't do this and I didn't do that and then the FBI told Puff himself he said you're alive because of Gene Phil Carson told him himself you're alive because of Gene because had you stopped at that light that would have been you had you not run that light that would have been you that's what they thought because those are the fashioned I think those people was there to kill Puff but they killed Big instead.

1:44:12But those other guys from the dog pound, they wanted Big also. So that's how he was saying that there was more than one, two people that was out trying to kill us. Plus Puff had that beef in Soul Train with the Muslim people too. So wherever it was coming from, I think that that was something professional that was done. Why do you think Puff's still alive?

1:44:41because the attention now, after Big's death, they had no reason to come at him. They had no reason to come after that. Because the Keefy D say that Puff paid him to kill Tupac? Or was he just saying that? Bro, I can't believe that only because of this. I've been around Keefy D and Puff when they were gambling. I mean,$40 ,000,$50 ,000,$60 ,000 in the pot or more. And Keefy D lost. And not one time he was like, yo, Puff, let me get 20 of that owe you. Let me get 20 of that that you owe me. because that's what somebody would say. And we probably wouldn't know what he was talking about, but not one time I've been around him that Keefy D tried to get money from him.

1:45:52So Keefy D and Puff were friends? Yeah, they was cool. But Keefy D was there when Tupac got shot? That's what he said. But it does put a lot of question marks over. Puff Daddy's got question marks over, especially now so, but with the stories that are coming out, he seems like a very dark individual where he would do anything just to keep his own career on track. Would I be right in saying that? Yeah, I wouldn't disagree with that. I wouldn't disagree with that. That's a scary place to be, though. Everybody can be fucked over, 300 buses. He wouldn't have cared if you got a bullet in the head. I know.

1:46:31Biggie got a bullet in the head. I know. And I don't know the guy, so I'm only saying from what I'm hearing, but something doesn't sit right with him. Mm-hmm. So who killed Biggie then? Because no one was ever convicted. I believe Amir Muhammad would sit there to probably kill Puff, but he killed Big. Big was a casualty of war. and that he was given an okay. It's just how it happened. You know, me being an officer and being somebody who'd been around that type of situation and those things, when we blew that light, that man could have shot right then and there as we was blowing the light. He could have shot big or anything.

1:47:25It seemed like he was given permission. you understand the weight the time you understand yo they blew the light damn i'm a big them right here well go ahead shoot him fuck it bap bap bap bap bap get it the time that it happened It wasn't spontaneous. Spontaneous would have been, we blow the light, pow, pow, pow, pow, pow, pow. Not we get across the street, we wait for them, and then we hear the shots go out. Why doesn't the car follow? I don't know. I don't know. There were three girls on the sidewalk, and I found out they were talking to those three girls.

1:48:18So what happens with your life after that then? How was the relationship with Puff? We stopped dealing with each other for a minute. And then about a year later, I seen him up at the Super Bowl or whatever. He said, yo, Wolf. He said, yo, Gene, come here. I said, what's up, man? He said, yo, come in the back. They were in the back of Puff. Puff, oh yeah, Justice 2 in Atlanta. He said, yo Puff, put Gene back to work. And Puff said, yo Gene, you want to come back to work? I said, I don't care. Sup? And he said, uh, sit me in my office on Monday. I came to his office on Monday. And I went back to work for him.

1:49:01What sort of stuff were you doing then? Same shit, babysitting. Babysitting, making sure he, like right now, he's strung out on pills so just making sure he good but only only Adam or sometime Friday but Saturday and Sunday was my day but sometime I have a Friday Saturday and Sunday what sort of stuff would you do just a regular he go into meetings MTV shows cuz now he's the star you know he's the man Did you see another big change when everyone was gone? Yeah, I seen a change. I think it had a lot to do with the drugs, too. You know, now he's popping pills. Puff was never no smoker, no nothing, nothing like that, but now he's popping pills.

1:49:57And...

1:50:02He's just going crazy with the women. But what about all the gay shit when people are saying he's fucking gay? Well, listen here, man. I'm not the type of dude, they live a rock star life. I'm not going to be in a room with another man, and whether it's two women or a thousand women, I'm not going to do that. That's not me. I'm not ashamed of anything. That's just how I do my thing. So, only time that I could see something like that is the places we used to go, those Turkish baths. And he used to go in there and it would be nothing but men in there. And I'd be like, yo, I go to the door with him and then next day I turn back around and go out.

1:50:54And there's nothing but a bunch of naked men in there. What the fuck is this all about? So, whatever he used to do in those days, that's what he did. Yeah, no one gives a fuck if you're gay straight or bi, but when you're portraying yourself as a bad boy and fucking all these girls, but then fucking men, it just don't sit right with me. It just seems strange. But again, it's 2024. I don't know what's... They're gonna be marching on you, English! Yeah, but do you know what I'm saying? I don't care what the fuck you do, but it's obviously, how was Cassie? Because obviously all this stuff out now and he's saying he used to get men to fuck her and stuff.

1:51:35Yeah, that was after me. Yeah, but for me, yeah, it's just, that's not right. Men are protectors. You should be protecting women. If you love a woman, you shouldn't be able to fucking handle it if a man's looking your missus up and down, never mind fucking her. That's deranged. That's your woman and all that. That's crazy. That's deranged thinking for me. So if everything that's true about what people are saying, then he sounds like a fucking nasty bastard. Oh, that's possible, bro. A sick man, do you know what I'm saying? And it just seems all strangely. I don't know, man. But see, they get that.

1:52:10See, that's been going along for a long time. He gets it from Russell Simmons, Andre Orell. They teaching him that. You know, Puff wasn't that type of dude. Where would he learn that from? You understand what I'm saying? so now you know the student as became a teacher what do you think the outcome will be with him with all these rape allegations and but what they would do is is that they're gonna try to you know that's why they want to know the names of the people because the DA them is not filing anything against them you understand that means the state takes on those problems you understand you have the women that's doing it and the lawyers.

1:52:57You understand? He's not be bringing up on criminal charges. Those charges are basically, you know, for judicial reasons. You understand? So until the state takes one of those charges and say, yo, yo, he did this and he did that, he's going to pay his way out of it. Do you think there became a time where he felt untouchable? Oh, yeah. He knew he was untouchable. He felt like he was untouchable. You could see that. What about J-Lo? Did you ever meet her? Oh, yeah. Is that the night? Remember the night there was a shootout in a nightclub? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was J-Lo like? I used to call her Miss Lopez.

1:53:44I think that she was just remarkable. She was a beautiful, not only beautiful, she just like, if you was in the business like that, you want that to be your woman. You know what I'm saying? She represented you well. Now I don't know how she is now, but you know, she represented Puff well. You know what I'm saying? He ain't had to worry about nobody

1:54:17trying to come at her a certain kind of way. She had been in the business long enough to know. She was well-respected. She could get us in places. Man, we was down on the field at the NFL. We was down on the field with the Miami Hurricanes, all that stuff like that. She was the ball. You know what I mean? Like that. if you were a superstar or you was into that business you would want that to be your woman. Was there much of violence from Puffy with his exes and girlfriends back then? Did you see much of domestic abuse? Only time I seen him was Kim. You know what I mean? Nobody else. A lot of people around him as well.

1:55:06A lot of people seem to die. Why do you think that is? Well, the thing about it is is this, is that I think that how he lives his life and how he cares about people put them in precarious situations that they can lose their life if they're not careful. And I really don't believe that Kim had pneumonia, just like the rest of us, because I was aware prior to her going to California, her lifestyle, you know what I mean? And the things that she did with Puff. And when you do certain things, you put your life in danger. What sort of stuff? You know, drugs, you know, drugs, drinking and drugs, and stuff like that.

1:56:07A lot of people do that shit. You know what I'm saying? And it wasn't just smoking weed. You know what I mean? So when you put yourself in that type of situation, you know, and you round somebody, it's like Lynn Bias. Do you know who Lynn Bias is? Lynn Bias was a hell of an athlete, right? probably would have been as good as Larry Bird, maybe as good as Jordan. We would have been known to him. Len Bias was using cocaine prior to the night he became

1:56:59the number one draft pick for Boston Celtics. Just picture this. We knew the guy who used to play on Maryland team. He was from Tennessee. He used to tell us he had to piss for the whole team down there. You understand? He had to piss for the whole team down there. Len Byers is used to a certain kind of cocaine, right? Because he was getting that type of money. now he's about to get NBA money he step up his game and get a whole different type of cocaine like a better type of cocaine and what happened to him he dies from it when you in certain positions you understand you cannot you know like my money ain't like somebody who's You know, just say, I'm bodyguard Puff.

1:58:01Okay, cool. But somebody who's bodyguarding Rockefeller, they're going to get twice as much as I get. You understand what I'm saying? So their money is different. So when you got that different money, you get those different type of drugs. Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston. Yeah. And what happened? What happens then after you leave Puff? How was life then? Oh, you know, like, I had things going on. I had Kay Slay. I was bodyguard Scott Storch. I went to bodyguard Scott Stewart. I was bodyguard in Case Slay. How was 50? 50 was dealing with black hands. And 50 came over to my house when they were setting him up.

1:58:42He knew they was going to set him up and try to kill him. And I tried to give him a bulletproof vest. And I told 50 that he had to watch out behind that shit. So I never spoke to him. I spoke to him again with Scott Stewart when he was doing the candy shop, that song in the candy shop. And he sat me down, we was in there talking, and he was like, I was trying to say that I would... because I would have rolled with 50. You understand what I'm saying? And he knew that. But because of his introduction by Chaz Williams, who he had a problem with, Then he told me, he said, yo, I couldn't trust anybody.

1:59:29I had to deal with the people that I was dealing with who came in the game with me and everybody else. I had to let go. I couldn't F with them. And that's understandable. You understand? I was telling them, yeah, I'm my own man. I've always been my own man. And he was like, yeah, I know, Gene, but I had to do what I had to do for me. I like 50. Seems a decent guy. His book was unbelievable. I thought it was amazing from where he's came from to what he's overcome to what he's doing now. He always takes a shot at Puff. Yeah. Why? I think because Puff was robbing him on that publishing thing. Pity was doing a lot of writing for a lot of people back then.

2:00:07Before he was even known like that. He was writing music. A lot of these cats have written a lot of songs for people and never will get to publishing because they put their publishing in somebody else's name. Here go, 10 ,000. I write that that song become a hit my name is on the publisher yeah you're with 50 teller story his album sold 10 million right he asked the he told the producer keep the 50 ,000 I'm gonna give you one point that one point would have got that dude one million dollars and they rejected that huh they rejected that yeah yeah I heard that yes that's what it's about is points.

2:00:49The more points, the more money. Yeah. Yeah. What's your whole rundown on it? Gene, what's your whole rundown on the biggie, Tupac scenario, Puff Daddy scenario? What's the whole rundown of why you think they all died? Who was involved? Well, I know the atmosphere was set up for big to die in California. You cannot make me believe that you know that Tupac had just died six months, six months before Big died. You're going to plan for him to be out in California to promote anything. You're only getting 20 % of your sales from out there anyway. And you could do radio to the DJs over the radio and they understand that, your circumstances, situation.

2:01:46And then Big, if you would have told him to run because his life depended on him, he could not run because he had broken both of the fibula bones in his thighs from the car accident. So he was in a wheelchair most of the time. So because of the Soul Train Awards show, you're going to send your man to California and then have him out there still? for a month or two, knowing that he got a beef with some people out here that are gang members. He got his own beef out here. So my take on Big, he was put in a position to be somewhere to be handled. But then Puff had hurt some people and they was trying to handle him

2:02:49and Big took that L for Puff. If you get what I'm saying. Declare his name and put him. Yeah. Take him, leave me. What's your biggest regret in life, Gene? My biggest regret in life? Yeah. Not having to spend more time with my kids. running around the country with artists and this music shit. And even though I provided for my kids more than I ever was, I could have spent more time with them. Why were you so invested into that life? Because I think that...

2:03:32I grew up always wanting to beat up the bully. What's your opinion on Puff now? Well, my opinion would be that some way, somehow, God evens up the playing field. No matter what kind of watch you got, no matter what kind of car you drive, no matter what kind of house you live in.

2:04:00God evens up the playing field you just got to be ready to play ball no matter what it is do you believe in karma? that's what I'm talking about what's your plans for the future brother? where do you go forward with it all? well I wrote my first book and people did you get a chance to read it? yeah I read it brother yeah that's why you're on yeah yeah you like it? I know we've missed out on a lot of stuff as well but I loved that You said, it ain't real. You said, what? No, that's why I've got you on, because I read your book, man, I love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wrote the second one. It's gonna tear you up, because it's gonna put you right in there.

2:04:42Like, you're gonna know what happened that night, what all went down. You're gonna know what went down with the 50 Cent, all the stuff that went down prior to... All the shit that you heard in the media, stuff like... You understand? then the Sean shit the behind the scenes what happened with him and Sean and everything I'm going to tell you all that in the second book the fat Joe our relationship K Slay Chaz Williams the guy who robbed 160 banks tell stories about Pun Big L just Harlem, I put you right there. The editor told me, the guy who was editing the book, shout out to Floyd, you know what I'm saying, Larry Floyd.

2:05:35He was like, yo, Gene, this is better than the second book. The second book is better than the first book. People are going to love you, your audience are going to love this. I start writing the third, I'm going to do a book, of poetry and recipes. You know, put poetry and recipes together, do that, and then I'm just going back and just chill, man, I'm done.

2:06:03I've had a life that most people wouldn't believe the circumstances and the situations I came out of that I fought through and I believed that because of grace, it held me. The grace of God kept me going. no matter what. You understand? I used that power and the grace to just get me through. So, that's where I'm at, man. I just want to live off the rest of my life and just be happy. See, the car crash with Begay, what happened? Oh, Little C's was driving and it was coming off a lot and it was slippery and wet outside and he crashed and Bigg almost went through the front window. See if Biggie and Tupac got together and sorted their differences, do you think that would've helped a lot of things?

2:07:01Oh, that would've helped all. That would've helped a lot of things and it would've hurt a lot of things because the industry could not move the way it wanted to move with Tupac being involved. See, you know what? should Knight had put in some people heads, we need to get our own publishing company. You know what I'm saying? And they were going to fight for that. And there's no way that the industry out there took all those companies and broke up, was going to allow these minority brothers, these black guys, to get their own publishing company and own their rights to their own rap music. What's going to happen?

2:07:47Do you think that's why the media brought so much attention to it? Because they knew they would eventually have got killed if they keep stirring the pot? Yep. No doubt. How do you feel telling your story again? Does it bring back a lot of emotion? It brings back a lot of emotion sometimes, but I don't hurt like I used to hurt. I can't stop the feelings sometimes. You know what I'm saying? You know, like when I talk about Big and him, or when I talk about the part when... Big went to that party when everybody was telling him not to. Because I think that had he went to London, like he was playing on, they wouldn't have got him that day.

2:08:32What did Biggie's mom think of it all? Oh, my man. She cried like a baby. She held my hand. And she told me that I was just too raw just telling her everything. And she at one time, she said, I don't want to hear no more.

2:08:56So that was it. Yeah. For anybody that's watching, brother, that's maybe in a life of struggle just now, what advice would you have for them?

2:09:08Well, even when you don't have, you can't get, just keep working towards it and believing. And as long as you putting in the work towards something, you understand? If you have to go out and you have to just make a loaf, if you can make money, enough money for a loaf of bread, do that. Just keep on doing something. Don't stop doing. don't ever stop no matter what it is. You know what I'm saying? It's nothing too big or too little. You got to just keep on going for it until you can get where you need or you want to be at. You know, what problem is is that people,

2:09:53they want the car before they can ride the bike. You know what I'm saying? You might have to ride a bike for a while before you can get the car. Just a couple of more questions, brother. Who's the best person you've worked with? The best person as far as what? Just to feel good and it's just a good job and you like the person, they feel genuine, loyal.

2:10:20I hate to say, but I think it was Ms. Lopez, Jennifer Lopez. And the reason I said that because she wasn't my principal. but I wanted to help her in so many different ways on so many different times, and I didn't. But it was good having her around.

2:10:43What do you think the final outcome will be with Puftatic? That he'll never be on the pedestal that he was was and that his name won't go down in history and his legacy will be tarnished. by his arrogance and his... Gnosticism. Do you think that'll break him more than anything? It will break him, yeah. Not being able to be at the awards show, not being able to be out on Front Street like that, yeah, that'll break him more than ever. He can't be a Russell Simmons and go to ballet and just chill out and not be seen. not at all. When did you, just before we finish up, but when did your relationships change with him?

2:11:33Did you, have you got any hate towards him or anger? Just, if you seen each other, what would happen? We've seen each other. What happened? You know, before, he tried to send some money over to me. We was at, it was years back before the YouTube thing came up, we was at the Kingdome basketball tournament. He sent the guy over with a wad of money like this. I mean, like, I couldn't see nothing but hundreds or whatever because Puff never carried no little money or nothing like that. So he said, yo, split this with the security. I told him to take it back to him. I don't want to split shit. Why? But ain't me.

2:12:10I ain't taking nothing from you. I don't need nothing from you. If you want to get the security, call security over there and give it to him. You're not going to buy me off like that. He tried to send with me and the guy from Felon Magazine, he tried to send some bottles over to her. Well, to me. When he was at Sin City, a strip club, you know, a dance club. And I walked away from the table. And the dude from Fella Magazine said, shit, I'm popping these. Because obviously, you've got the things about being fruity and asking 50 Cent if he wanted to go shopping. Listen, it could be harmless, but again, it is a bit fruity.

2:12:50Whether you're fruity or gay, nobody cares. But the things with ushering stuff, Is there any truth towards having a fair with other artists and sleeping with other artists? Or is it all hearsay? No, it's not hearsay. I'm gonna leave it at that. Okay, fair enough. All right. Yeah, we'll keep it for part two when your second fix out. Would you like to finish up on anything else, Gene? Nah, listen, Mr. English, thank you. I appreciate you having me. I hope that the people in London enjoy this segment of your show and that I hope that I have cleared up some things and helped them know some things that they needed to know.

2:13:29Where can people buy your book, Gene? They can buy it on Amazon. They sell it on Amazon and they can go to Cash App or PayPal and put Big Gene 52 and put in the postage from overseas plus$50 for shipping to him. We told him at the start we'll finish up on that. Would you like to finish up on anything else? No, I'm good, bro. Gene, listen, I wish you nothing but the best for the shoot track and good luck with the second. Yes, sir. Bro, bye. For a limited time, you can get a Big Mac meal for just$8. That's a burger, fries and a drink. They don't call it an extra value meal for nothing. Get a Big Mac meal only at McDonald's.

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