The Luke Mitchel Murder Case (Part 2) Luke’s Mum Tells All

32:41How did this happen? How? I mean we got to see Luke behind glass just afterwards and just shock, I mean just utter, it was like somebody had taken a mallet and gone right between his eyes just shock Did you ever have an appeal? Yes, we had two appeals I think there was Both knocked back? They're jokes appeals are jokes, it's nothing to do with the case it's all about in this case in 1906 and in this case in 1904 and the trial against and you're like, why are you talking about these people this is about Luke Mitchell not about these people, it's just a joke and judges will not go against each other and what do you think the whole outcome has been of this, what do you think has happened for it to get a guilty verdict this episode is brought to you by ChatGPT Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast.

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34:35Well, not only have you got a dead girl, you've got a young man now he is. He's not a boy. He's a young man who's had his life wasted. He's been locked up half his life. He was locked up and taken away at 15. And come July, he'll be 31. And is there any other signs of a retrial? We're hoping so, because since he's been in, we've had new evidence we've had a confession and we've had a positive ID of someone seen behind Jodie and it's the same person who confessed and so if the police or the courts can't see that as a witness then has that ever been put forward to the police or the courts? no, no it's only come to light in the last few years so there's a confession from somebody who's actually did that yes scary to think that again I've still got to sit on the fence because I've still got to understand you've got to understand that there's still a girl who's been murdered and I don't know all the facts I don't know I've not seen it in black and white I'm more taking it from your side and Sandra's side but again when it was Joe Steele who's a very well respected man spent 20 years in prison and said that Luke was Mitchell Luke was innocent because obviously the eye detectors because when Joe actually mentioned on my podcast that Luke was innocent my old recognition of what that was I thought it was guilty myself I thought it was guilty because of what the media put in and I never heard anything of it and then that's when I put the feelers out to try and get you on the show to tell your story because if there is an innocent man if he's guilty and I'm here I'm shedding light on it, it's going to backfire on me but when people who I know are well respected believe he's innocent then there is question marks about it and it is scary to think that it happens all the time, I've had T.C.

36:46Campbell and Joe Steele on my show who spent 20 years in prison and were wrongly convicted so it does happen, it does happen it does happen and it's bad enough if you're a grown man and it happens but when you're a young lad you've had your entire life taken away from you because you grow up in a prison system you're not allowed to mature normally like his friends now they're either married or in a relationship some of them have got children they drive, they've been to pubs obviously, Luke's never had any of that all things you and I take for granted he's never had Have you anybody been supporting you either?

37:29Have you lost a lot of family, a lot of friends? I've lost a lot of family through death. I mean, obviously, when my family were all alive, they all supported me, but most of them are dead now. I've only got cousins left.

37:45Friends, I've no friends left at all. Not because they think Luke's guilty, it's just they don't know what to say. And I'm like, well, you don't have to say anything, just give me a hug. We're just talk normal. A lot of people will be scared, though, to say they know you're a show of emotion because he has been convicted. So in other people's eyes, he's guilty. Other people are too scared to touch on it. Other people, it's such a touchy subject. What I discovered quite early on is if I went somewhere, an area, where the majority of people read broadsheets, I was fine and I was accepted. And it was, hello, Mrs Mitchell, how are you?

38:26and how's your son? That's just ridiculous that he's in prison, just ridiculous. If I went somewhere who the people mainly read tabloids and I was a dead woman walking, you're just not safe at all. And how's your safety now with others? Now, touch wood, yeah, I get positive, though I'm still very wary. If I go into Dalkeith now and if I'm in a shop and someone approaches me, your knee-jerk reaction is to go backwards. Do you think, are they going to hit me or hug me? You don't know. But in the last few years, it's been fine. It's been absolutely fine. He's a high category in the prison. Yes. So he's high risk, but he's not taking any of his courses to bring that down to low category.

39:16Why is that? Because that's you admitting your guilt. But could he not get out if he takes his courses and well he would if he took his courses yes he would get paroled and he would get out but he's not going to he's never going to admit guilt because he's not guilty so he's just going to try and keep fighting until he walks out the door innocent yes so how's it it's such a again it's such a touchy case you know that yourself but for some family to lose a daughter and then potentially you've lost a son and well you've not lost him but to be fighting for his freedom must be draining you constantly.

39:56It does. I mean, it's the first thing you think of in the morning and it's the last thing you think of at night. And then we've been accused of, whenever we do something to try and help Luke, the paper's jumping out and go, oh, they're putting the Joneses through hell. How could they do that? It's disgusting. Have they not gone through enough? Well, my son's innocent. Yes, I'm sorry your daughter is dead. That's awful. It's absolutely awful. And he suffered for that. He suffered tremendous trauma because he couldn't even grieve for her because the press were right there, the police were right there.

40:29But he's got to fight for his life as well. And we're not going to just let that happen because we feel sorry for another family. Were you told not to go to Jodie Shruno? Yes. How long, when Jodie was found, how long was Shruno after her body was found? This is what was just weird because it was quite soon because they hadn't even made any arrests or anything but she was allowed to be buried. Yeah, usually they hold the body for six months up to a year. I don't know if things have changed. I think it can be maybe six weeks now. I think they have changed that. I'm not sure though. So obviously the news as well, you were on Sky News.

41:12Was it the day of the funeral? Yes. What was the story about that? They totally stitched us up. Was that a hatchet job? Yes, totally. See, we were totally naive in all things press. We'd never dealt with the press. who had never dealt with anything like that. And all they said was, could they come in and see? Because we held our own wee sort of vigil for her. And we lit a candle and whatnot, and they asked to come in and see it. And then, they were like a pack of rabid dogs. It was horrible. I mean, it was really scary. And then a daft psychologist, was it Ian Stevens or something, picked up on the fact that I had my arm around him and my mother.

41:53I'm protecting myself. It's the first thing you do, you know, leave him alone. He's my baby. Leave him alone. Because they have says about weird relationships and Luke sleeping in the same bed. What was that story? Luke was on very, very strong medication because obviously he was totally traumatised. But this time the press were just vile. The police were vile. and in our living room we had two big couches. I mean, really big couches. So I'm like, right, you sleep on that one, I'll sleep on that one. I didn't want him negotiating stairs under heavy medication because he would have tumbled back down and I wanted to keep an eye on him.

42:33So we're both sleeping in the living room. Because the papers say that he's sleeping in the same bed and stuff like that. I don't understand how they could release names before trial, especially a minor as well. Neither do I, but they did. And they photographed him being taken away, handcuffed. And I said to him, you cannot allow the press to photograph him handcuffed. That's illegal. And they said, don't worry about it, don't worry about it. And they did. And when he was in the car, one of them grabbed him by the hair and went, show them your face, you wee bastard. They grabbed his hair? Yeah.

43:11Did they ever get beaten up or anything by the police or threatened? Not so much beaten up, but definitely threatened. He needed the toilet during one interview. And the social worker that was in with him got up to go with him. And the cops turned around and went, you sit. And the cops went with him. And they both went up, went behind him and went, confess you wee bastards. Just fucking confess. We know you did it. Just fucking confess. So we're trying to browbeat him all the time. did you have a lawyer present? no why was that? you wouldn't allow it so you wouldn't allow a lawyer present for a 14 year old to no have you ever had anybody from the police come forward and say that they've made a mistake or anybody from the courts to say we think we've made a mistake have you ever had this episode is brought to you by chat GPT hey it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons podcast have you guys heard about chat GPT work?

44:10it's the new way to use chat GPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give chat GPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at chat GPT.com by selecting work mode available on plus and pro plans. Star Wars, the Mandalorian and Grogu is now streaming on Disney Plus. What are you waiting for? Hop on. The must-see galactic adventure comes home on Disney Plus. This is the way. Our only chance is to work together. I like this kid. Always wear your seatbelt. Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu.

44:57Now streaming on Disney Plus. Read PG-13.

45:03This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+. Anybody? Sandra had a cop come and that's how he gave her the just about the confession because it was him that actually took the confession and that's never been put forward for and people watching us might be thinking that doesn't seem right but again Joe Steele who again was on the show they had the confessions of the because they had, the guy gave a statement against them to say that they were in a pub which they weren't and the guy actually confessed that he was told to say that but they still wouldn't give him a retrial they still wouldn't use that in court so courts and shit and police it's difficult, it's very difficult it's a different world, it's just a different world again you're going to get good cops, you're going to get bad cops it's like anything in life, you get good teachers, bad teachers it's just the way life is but have they made a terrible mistake, maybe they've read the papers, maybe they're reading out the media that they think it was.

46:29It's a small community and they wanted and needed a quick conviction. So what easier? Go after the boyfriend. They thought, I've got a wee laddie. And he was a wee smite at 14. He was tiny at 14. You know, how easy is this going to be? Get him to confess, no problem. But they didn't bank on Luke being Luke. And what annoyed them was he was more intelligent than they were. What about a murder weapon? Ever found? nothing Sandra and I have got a theory on that one the bike that was seen at the V in the wall there's a V in the wall where the stones have fallen away and there was two lads mucking about on a moped and the moped was seen at the wall at the V and in court they were asked well where were you?

47:28your bike was seen where were you? and they couldn't and wouldn't answer and it was left at that they wouldn't answer where they were at all now where the body was was on Roan Dykes Path there's another path adjacent that runs an L to Roan Dykes called Lady Path now along here is Reed Drive where one a cousin or a second cousin don't understand all the second cousin nonsense about But he lives along there and his back garden is adjacent to the path. It backs onto the path. Now, how easy for to go along Roan Dykes Path, along Lady Path, straight into the back of their house. Now, we know there was a scrapyard involved somewhere along the line.

48:20how easy is it to take a motorbike, a knife, bloody clothes, I'm not swearing, bloody as in blood covered, chuck them in the back of a van, crush it. So how far was the... Gone forever. How far was the spot from where Jodie was murdered to your house?

48:45I'd say 10, 15 minute walk. So if Luke was to have done that, then he'd had to have walked home and there was no... See, when you come out the path, you're on to New Battle Road. And then New Battle Abbey Crescent, where we lived, right at the end there's a bus stop. Now at that time of night, it was very, very busy. You've got folk coming off buses, coming home from work and all that. You've got to cross a busy road and go into a housing scheme that's got over 200 houses. So at the time... And he was seen by two boys. So what time did they roughly say Jodie was murdered? It keeps changing. And where was Luke when, roughly the time she was murdered?

49:27In the house. So when Sandra was on, he said he'd made a phone call to, I don't know if it was your work or your other son's work, to say that it was dinner there. When he got in from school, he always phoned me to find out what he had to cook for dinner. And there's a phone record of this? Yes. And was that used in court? the phone records because they did not use you couldn't use your alibi because you're his mum is that correct? and I wasn't allowed in the trial I was kept to the very very last day to give my evidence I wasn't allowed in so there was no so the boys in the moped as well there was boys in the moped there did they say they'd seen Luke?

50:09did they give a description of Luke? no they were seen by other witnesses causing a nuisance on this bike. And they went into basically tool hire, which is a business on that road. And they were causing a disturbance there. And they'd gone in there. And when you read, now one of them, they never came forward. And the police were asking for these boys on the moped to come forward. And they never came forward for five days. They came forward eventually. Eventually. But in those five days, one of them had cut off all his hair. Now, in court, Finlay asked him why he cut off all his hair. I mean, boys don't do it.

50:53Girls do it. I mean, I've been cutting my own hair for years. Boys, not so much. But he cut off all his hair. Now, he had nearly a year to think up an excuse. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And of course we're all thinking he did that so he wouldn't look like the boy on the bike. Turn that around. He cut off all his hair so he would look like the boy on the bike because he was never on that bike. Witness statements do not describe him until he cuts his hair off. So there was two people... his statements all over the bloody place. So why, I don't understand why the QC hasn't used these statements to say, look, they've all changed.

51:47They've all changed to say, it's not really concrete, is it, if they've changed so many times? I can't tell you why Finlay did it, but we know why Finlay did it. Yeah. Let's just say up to his bank balance a bit. So who do you think killed Jodie Jones? the person who confessed and the person who was positively ID'd and all the statements so was Luke ever a description gave of him at the time on the path no I've had numerous people come into my work over the years and said Corrine so and so saw somebody or we know so and so they went to the police the minute their description didn't fit Luke forget it so was Luke that night as well did he go out and play with friends yes and did they go to court were they witnesses they weren't in court no could that not have been an alibi potentially as well yes yes

52:52it's a it's a puzzle isn't it it's it's just shocking that they can get away with it I mean there's a young boy who hasn't done anything and he's had his entire life ruined do you think look will ever get out yeah I can visualise it in my head yes I can

53:15but it's been so long, it's 16 years if Luke gets a retrial for this this could potentially be one of the biggest miscarriages of justice the UK has ever seen and that's scary for people who maybe have been promoted, for people who's maybe covered up stuff and I don't know, I've not got all the answers, I'm saying if I'm just listening to your story, listen to Sandra's story there's always three sides to her story, there's always both sides and then there's the truth it's for me to give people a platform and let them tell their side of the story without things getting twisted because if he is innocent then fuck me there's going to be a shitstorm for people who are involved and not only that, there's a murderer a murderer on the loose somebody's killed a 14 year old girl, innocent girl and her family will be distraught and live with that for the rest of her life and they'll probably hate me I get it because I'm giving you the platform to tell your story but your son is potentially innocent.

54:13Yep. And it's scary to think. But the judge misled the jury and I don't know how the jury fell for it because the judge told the jury that Luke, when he went over the wall, he turned left because he knew where the body was. he turned left because that's where his dog reacted he would have been an absolute idiot had he turned right so the people who Luke was with searching for the body what was their statements at the start with Luke's at the start they all agreed with Luke's they all agreed how the dog reacted because he'd let her off they'd gone up the path at an alarming rate but then you'll see yourself it's the kind of path if there's anything on it you're going to trip over it, right?

55:02Only she was on the other side of the wall, which Sandra and I went over, and you can't walk two feet, and you're getting your hair caught in branches and all the rest of it. But he'd gone up, and the other search party members were there. Now, weirdly, and Finlay asked her, and she wouldn't answer, she would not answer, the grandmother insisted they go back down the path that Luke's just come up. Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have eczema. So I get how it can steal your time. But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about EBCLIS? EBCLIS, Lubrikizumab LBKZ, a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema.

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56:31Star Wars, The Mandalorian and Grogu is now streaming on Disney+. What are you waiting for? Hop on. The must-see galactic adventure comes home on Disney+. This is the way. Our only chance is to work together. I like this kid. Always wear your seatbelt. Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu now streaming on Disney+. Read PG-13.

57:21like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus. Why? He would have tripped over something if anything had been there. But no. Why didn't she go along Lady Path? Why didn't she search the cousin's house, which she had to pass on the way down? Because a few months before her murder, Jodie's curfew was 10 o 'clock and come 2 o 'clock in the morning no Jodie. Now there was no police, there was no search party, there was no panic. Judy waited till Janine came in, said get along to your cousins and see if Jodie's there. If she is, tell her she's grounded for life.

58:10So Janine went along to the cousins and sure enough Jodie was there with friends having a wee smoke and on the night Jodie was murdered they had to pass the cousin's house to go to the path. Why didn't they check? She was there a couple of months ago. She could have been there again, but they didn't check. Why did they insist on going back down a path that looks just come up and there's been nothing there? She insisted they went back down that path. Why didn't they go along Lady Path and go to the cousin's house which she used to go to? Why didn't they search it? they were virtually passing it.

58:50They didn't search anywhere. Judy knew that Jodie and Luke used to go to my workplace some nights because they used to obviously go for a smoke and talk to my night watchman. They had to pass, see where you parked the car. If you keep walking where you pass the car, pass the car wash, there's a path and that gets you down towards that path. Now, that's the way they came. Why didn't Stephen, he was quite a tall chap, why didn't he just cross the gate, cross the fence, have a wee, Jodie, are you here? Are you here? Why didn't they check my place? They didn't. They didn't check anywhere. They insisted they went back down the path.

59:36Why, though? I don't know. Did they know more information and what they're letting on to? Or was it just maybe a gut feeling? If something bad's happened, sometimes you feel that feeling that something's not right? No, we think... They weren't actually initially looking for Jodie. They were initially looking for another family member who had gone missing that day. And that's how they got there so damn early. And what time was the body found? Jodie's. Quite late on. Was it? 11 or something like that. And how many bits of DNA again? Different bits of DNA? Are they a crime scene? We've got blood, semen, sperm, saliva, hair, fibre, six.

1:00:18And were they ever identified with anybody? Well, some of the semen, that was found in a condom, and that guy's been named. His excuse for that is a wee bit weird, but hey-ho, each to his own. Right, the condom that was used, the guy was masturbating. Yes. Why would you do that? He's finished off. Was it done beforehand, or was it done after? I don't know. No, he's maybe been the kind of person who's got off and seen a dead body because he must have seen her where he was. He must have. It's weird, that. That is so weird. But why use a condom for masturbating? So could that potentially be that somebody's seen a dead body and basically played with herself?

1:01:07That's the only thing we can think of. Was there any other DNA on the condom? No. Just his? And he was identified? Yes, a few years later, not at the time, because the police got all excited because they thought it was looks. And of course, once it was tested, they're like, damn, it's not, it's not looks. So going forward then for trying to fight for a retrial, so what's the process now? Are you looking for people to try and help you? Are you looking for people to try and get more involved in the case? Because we're basically shedding light on it anyway. and more people are. Well, basically, we've got to get together all the new evidence we've got and get a new lawyer, somebody who's got the guts to do it, to go through with it.

1:01:53Do you think people are scared to take this case on? Yeah. He's had umpteen lawyers. Have they been sacked or have they left? No, we've sacked them because they've been useless. The last one I tried to get, somebody came into my work and went, what a brilliant lawyer for you. Top notch. young guy wants to make a name for himself here's his number, great phone done, alright yeah yeah yeah, gave him all the information oh, it's Luke Mitchell, yeah ooh, huge case, huge I'm not that big yet I went, well you never will be if you sit back and not do anything so he just basically ran a mile So obviously we'll go back to touch on the press as well, a lot of the newspapers because I know you've got trust issues with speaking to people because you have been everything that the papers have said with some crazy shit like we'll go back to the Marilyn Manson stuff a weird relationship with yourself, you and your son Oh, there's weirder than that Just stuff that they've really made you look bad They put in this is priceless They put in that Mia was our second German shepherd our first one look practiced on slit its throat and hung it at her front door as you would like none of the neighbours would see or I wouldn't be done by the SSPCA so that's when the Marilyn Manson stuff comes in the drinking blood, the torturing animals he loved animals I was a hedgehog carer now I got a baby hedgehog in now we knew it was going to die that night we knew it was going to die because the person who found it was feeding it cow's milk We can't give a baby hedgehog cow's milk.

1:03:41It'll die. You've got to give it goat's milk. An adult hedgehog will get serious, serious sickness and diarrhoea, but a baby hedgehog will die. Now, this was only the size of a hamster. So it was a very, very, very young baby. Now, that boy, we had to feed it every two hours. Now, he knew it was going to die, and I told him, because I wasn't going to sugarcoat it, there wasn't going to be a happy ending with this. This was going to die. and I said, but I'll have to stay up all night because it's got to be fed every two hours because obviously just because it was going to die didn't mean it would have a horrible, horrible end to its life, you know.

1:04:23So, and he stayed up all night with me. I did two hours, he did two hours, I did two hours, he did two hours. There's not many 14-year-olds who do that. It's a hedgehog, poke it with a stick. Yeah, so that's what the paper says again. He was killing dogs and slitting his own dogs through it. If you're reading that, if I'm reading that, I'm going to watch him athlete to think he's a fucking psycho, if I'm honest. And that's what I did think. You should have seen him and Mia. They were, oh, it was... In fact, Dad used to get quite jealous because Mia was my dog. And sometimes, you know, their relationship was like, oh, God, you know, whoa.

1:04:59You know, they were really, really close. Because you have another son. Was he ever a suspect? Was his name ever thrown into the mix? Only by the Joneses family. So both sons. Was there any other major suspects? For a while there was a Mark Kane. Now Mark Kane was a student in New Battle Abbey College. When you see photos of Mark Kane and you see Luke, you're like, whoa, identical twins. They could be mistaken for each other. Now Mark Kane has a magical parka and a few nights after the murder he went to another guy's house and he had scratches all over his face and the guy went, let him do your face mark.

1:05:48He gave three different accounts of how he scratched his face. Now, there's only one account and that's the truth. Was there any DNA on Jodie's nails or anything? No. Nothing like that? No. it's such a savage savage crime to somebody to have went through that brutality I mean a lot of her injuries were done after death so it's been somebody who really didn't give a shit about being caught it's obviously somebody who if look as innocent like you say it then it's somebody who's not as daft as people think either because if there was no potentially major DNA to he's had helpers. You think there's been more than one involved?

1:06:35Well definitely after that. We think it's been a punishment killing. What's a punishment killing? Like he's found out something that she's done and he's punished her for it. It's savage. So for going forward for yourself and trying to shed more light on the case too because since the Sandralene one's been released a lot of people have kind of changed their mind because they believe in what they see, including myself. And I've said it to you before, when Luke Mitchell's name came up to me, I thought guilty. I thought the things that the paper says. I didn't know fuck all about it, I'm going to be honest.

1:07:10But when you start questioning things and start looking into it, no DNA. The thing that got it for me is he's both passed a lie detector. For six questions to get passed, and who is the man again, sorry? Terry Mullins. Would Terry Mullins be willing to give an interview as well to speak about it? You might well do. I mean, you told us that you'd be willing to testify. You can't use a lie detector. Of course. In court. But the tester can give evidence. And he said he'd be willing to do that. Because you don't just go in and get wired up and, you know, fire. You're asked about the Dane question.

1:07:50He studies you as a person because he was getting a wee bit worried about me because apparently I was fidgeting. Nerves. so I didn't realise I was fidgeting but I was fidgeting and I thought oh god I've got a fidget on my hands here how was the reaction when you got your results back from the test have you got the questions there I have in my bag can you use this bag over Stephen and we can read them out the big bag that's it working hard today Stephen I tried to find you a man bag but that's the mannest bag I had

1:08:33I've got to go upside down there's a lot of reading to do here son that's fine

1:08:51here we go So this is the questions and results to your polygraph test? This is done by private confidential.

1:09:16How many questions did you get read, Corrine? Well, you're asked quite a few, but then that's just to test your reaction. Yeah. You know, because I thought, what on earth is he asking me that for? You know, are you sitting on a chair? You're like, you can see I'm sitting on a chair, but it's just to see how your body reacts when you're telling the truth. So these are the questions that you got read to you during the lie detector test. Yes. So question one, did you lie in your court testimony during Luke's trial? Your answer was no. Which was correct. Yes. Question two. Did you falsify Luke's alibi regarding his whereabouts on the day of Jodie's death?

1:09:59Your answer was no. Which again was correct. Question three. Did you burn any clothing or evidence that would incriminate Luke of Jodie's death? Your answer was no. Again, correct. So three questions that... you've been asked and three questions you've answered correctly. Yes. And you were charged as well for incriminating... For perverting the course of justice. Perverting the course of justice. Mm-hmm. Yes. And this man, how accurate is... accurate is his polygraphs? Well, apparently he's the highest in the field. And you'll see by... I think it's there. he writes a letter to me or at the end it's his qualifications and where he was trained and what not I mean he's the highest in the UK Is there footage of this as well?

1:10:59Yes Was that ever put out? Because we know looks Yes The press, when you got your results what did they do with the results? Was that in the papers? Oh it was a big double page thing and I thought, oh my god, you've been calling me a lying bitch for years and now I'm God's gift. How was your emotional reaction to when you actually got your results that you passed? I just like told you. Was that a bit of, it's not closure because you've not even kind of. It wasn't closure but at least it was like, see, told you I was telling the truth. Yeah, because mud sticks. It does. Mud sticks. and you could take another 10 lie detectors.

1:11:45Luke could take them. But again, until he's walked out that court of an innocent man, then people are always going to be judging just now. Even if he did get out innocent, people would still judge. Oh, God, aye. His life will never, ever be the same. Ever. Has anybody ever tried to come forward to write a book or anything or talk about your experience? Well, Sandra's written our first book, No Smoke. but so much has happened since then so much and now she's written a second book

1:12:19there's I think in the future a lot more will happen it's basically this could happen to you anybody this could happen to anybody we were a normal law abiding I mean my parents were quite, I had a brilliant upbringing But they were strict, and I was taught to respect the police. And in those days, when I was young, you were taught manners, you were taught politeness, you were taught this, you were taught that. If it's not yours, don't touch it. You know, and nowadays, kids aren't taught anything like that. I mean, I'm surrounded by feral little bleeps, and they've got no respect for anything, nothing.

1:13:07So for trying to get a retrial put in place, it could potentially take another few years? Could, because courts are very slow. Everything to do with law is very slow. See, I'm 60 now. Getting old. Well, I'm old. I'm officially old. Yeah. So I'd like it to happen quite soon. I mean bless her my mum she never managed to make it she was hanging on to see Luke out but and that was total shock her and Mia did the nasty on me basically they were both sudden deaths completely out of the blue my mum was at work my mum though the registrar when I went to register her death he was like no no no no I've just asked you how old your mum was.

1:14:06I said, well, she would have been 92 two days after her death. Yeah, but you said she was working. I went, yes, she ran the family business. My mum worked full time at 92. She's a wirey wee sowl. Strong, strong woman. Drove a lot of people nuts. Irish, very Irish, very Irish with it. But she wouldn't take shit from anybody. I mean she was registered blind but she had some vision out the bottom but she would get on a bus by herself and I'm like mum you can't, don't, don't no no don't tell me that's my grandson, my grandson's innocent and she actually knocked somebody off their motorbike because I'd picked her up because she'd had a heart attack and I'm like you're not getting the bus you're not getting the bus I will pick you up and take you to work then I will take you home, it's not a problem so we're just coming up to the roundabout at Shell there and there was three guys on motorbikes and they surrounded me and they were kicking the car and all the rest of it and being just total arseholes.

1:15:15My mum, bless her, she'd never operated an electric window in a car in her life. She was used to the windy windows. She thought she was opening a window to shout at them but she opened the door and knocked him clean off his bike. and so the other two were like, oh shit, there's a mad woman in that car, let's go. So they left us alone. So she knocked him clean off his bike. She didn't give a shit. And bizarrely, Luke was the first person, no, she was the first person to talk to Luke when he came out of school because when he phoned to work, she answered. She was never, ever questioned by the police, ever.

1:16:00and yet she spoke to him when he first came out of out of school Was there anything you'd like to touch on Corrine before we finish up? Was there anything you'd like to say? It's just from day dot for some reason all the rules, all the regulations, everything goes right out the window when it comes to Luke for some reason if you watch the news or read the paper or paper and you hear a dog walker found the body. You're like, oh God, another one. But for some reason the judge didn't believe that a dog could find a body. He didn't believe Mia found her. Why? Just why? Why are these dog walkers not arrested?

1:16:46They're all believed, but we weren't believed. And Mia reacted very, very strongly. Although she was a trained tracker and she was good because Luke's lawyers actually got top dog trainer up from London to test Mia. Now, he was actually hiding things in trees, and I thought, she's not a bleeding monkey, she's a dog, and she can't climb trees. But she passed every single test, though she did eat the hairy microphone, because she thought it was a squirrel. But she passed all the tests, and the lawyers didn't use it. Now, they had a tracker at the scene because they had Mia. They virtually arrested Mia.

1:17:32They put her in a pound, which was disgusting. They told me they'd given her to my mum, which was a lie. They had a tracker present. They never used her. They locked her up. A wee while after the murder, well, they asked Luke's lawyers to get hold of a pig carcass. because that's the nearest thing to a human, apparently. So the lawyers were supposed to get a hold of a pig carcass and bring it to the scene, and the dog handlers would bring up dogs, and they'd see how the dogs would react, see if they reacted the same way as Mia, because the pig carcass was going to get put where Jodie was found, and their dogs where Mia was reacting, because she was reacting very, very strongly.

1:18:17I mean, Mia was big. I mean, she was big. and she stood up on her hind legs at the wall and started ear sniffing because obviously she could smell the blood. And she was scrambling at the wall and Luke was calling her going, Mia, come on, come on. Nah, she wouldn't move. She would not move. And that's when Luke remembered he'd seen the V where the stones had fallen away because the wall was over six foot. He was a wee smite. He couldn't get over it. He thought, oh, well, I'll go back to the V, climb through the V and go to where Mia is to see what's there. And of course, what's there was Jodie.

1:18:56And that's where they say that it was Luke who found the body? Yes. Was the dog mentioned at court or anything? Was it mentioned to the press or was it just Luke found the body? Just Luke found the body. It doesn't look good when people say that. No, no, it doesn't. And of course, the judge didn't help because he told jury members and everybody in court that he turned left because he knew where the body was. he turned left because that's where his dog was reacting. He would have been qualified for a village, if he turned right. And the witnesses and the people who are with Luke while searching for the body, they agreed with that in a statement?

1:19:33That it was a dog that found the body? They agreed. They even described how the dog reacted, how she was up on her hind legs and air sniffing and wouldn't come away. They agreed with everything Luke said, but then by the time they got to trial, no, the dog didn't do that. Luke went straight to the V. he obviously knew the V was there there is a lot of unanswered things I think and then Janine, she said she saw Luke when he was over the wall, which was physically impossible, Janine was like 5 foot nothing, the wall 6 feet, you can't see over it I think if it deserves at least a retrial of everything everybody's saying that's true then there's definitely something suspect about everything that deserves to be looked at again

1:20:22and to put everything out on the table and say, look, this is what we've got. This is the evidence we've got. This is what we've not got. This is the suspects we've got. But I've still got to take into consideration, I'm taking it from what you're saying and Sandra, which is one side of Luke's family. But if everything you're saying is correct, then there is a lot of unanswered questions. There's a lot. especially with a lie detector that's proof here that you passed you passed and people will be saying she's full of shit Luke's full of shit I'm quite flattered to think that I'm good enough to actually fool a lie detector that's what people say oh they've been lying that much that they believe it but it doesn't just go with that it goes with sweat it's three different places you're wired up and apparently when you lie you sweat but you can't tell that with a human eye you sweat in your hands obviously your heart changes and you're wired somewhere else I can't remember where and see he does these daft questions prior so he can tell how you react asking your name are you sitting on a chair and you're like you're looking at me of course I'm sitting on a chair but it's just to see how your body reacts when you're telling the truth because don't just ask the same question once, do you not?

1:21:44No, you get that I think it's three times but in different order Yeah, three times each question but in different orders It's not just three times you pass, it's nine times, because they were all correct Yes For coming on the day, Corrine Cups, I know you struggle speaking with people, I know you struggle giving interviews, I know I struggle with human beings nowadays I can understand I can't understand actually what you went through and the way you've been treated even if it was Luke who did it the way you've been treated with getting your caravans burned down and your life left in Tormor Moil it's sad to think that if Luke does get a retrial and gets a knockout you're owed a lot on apologies from a lot of fucking people because the way you've suffered also but again, you've still got to look at the way Jodie's family suffered also but you're thankful for yourself no one can imagine what it's like to lose a child I mean, I'm a mother and I can't get my head around that at all.

1:22:45It's bad enough losing them in the circumstances I've lost them in. Because you still get to see Luke. I still get to see him when she doesn't have that with Jodie. Horrible, horrible. But then when you know what we know, it's hard. Yeah, it must be. And we're not doing anything to upset anybody. We're doing this to fight for Luke's innocence. we're not doing it to upset the Joneses we've got no interest in upsetting the Joneses they've been upset enough to be fair anything they see that mentions a daughter's name it's going to trigger off points but then they've also we show them understanding but they've got to show us some understanding it's got to work both ways yeah, it's just a fair point so for going forward for the future Corrine I hope you get a retrial because I think if the evidence that we're getting told, which is basically none, that think it deserves a retrial.

1:23:42Just a tad. But the justice system, it can take a while. Again, with guys speaking on my show who's been through that turmoil, who's been through that pain and misery, to be serving 20 years for a kind that didn't commit, shows that it happens. It happens. And when people who are mentioning... I'm just thanking God or whoever's up there that they abolished hanging. Because Luke would be dead by now. And there's no coming back from that. There's no coming back from that. There's no fighting. No. That sticks with you. Yeah. I mean, you think, you know, years and years after the hanging, you know, the family get an apology.

1:24:19Big deal. You know. And even with Joe Steele and TC Campbell, who they get compensation, but the most valuable currency in this world is your life, your time. And your freedom. Yeah, no money can... You do not realise how much your freedom means to you until this happens. Yeah. And you don't realise how shitty human beings... I mean, I've virtually cut myself off from virtually every human being there is. I only see them when I absolutely have to because I don't like them anymore. I do not like human beings anymore. Is that the trauma you've been through? Mm-hmm. The pain, the misery? Yep. From the press to people trying to run you over to basically trying to kill you as well.

1:25:02Yeah. yeah it's sad but I just hope that he's done get a retrial and a fair trial at that that it puts it to bed where everything's put on the table and then you can decide from there because looking at it from the outside it doesn't look fair and that's me being honest absolutely if everything that you're saying and Sandra's saying is true but the polygraph even kind of just made up my mind that he's both passed a lie detector to say to cover to say that he's weren't lying on the questions because I believe one of Luke's questions as well is did you murder Jodie Jones which he says no and which he passed.

1:25:41Well you had to be asked that didn't you I mean that's how he's in prison. Of course that's the main question so it's such a touchy subject but it's a subject I'm not going to shy away from if I personally think that somebody's got a story to tell that I'm not giving up. I am selling the building. The final season of FX is the bear. The restaurant is flooded. Everything's either going to be okay. Or not. We are outgunned and we are outmanned, but we have each other. FX is the bear. The final season. All episodes now streaming on Disney plus. And we're back streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller.

1:26:30Slap me. Let's jar something loose. Ay, yes! I like that. The Certified Fresh Series returns. You're a boss. You always like this? Or is this just an act? Oh, no. This is mad. Oysters, everybody! It has to have a heart. There's a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to laugh. At ZocDoc, we know you care about your health. You wouldn't do that early morning cardio if you didn't. So the fact that your annual physical is overdue just shows how hard it can be to get seen by a doctor.

1:27:04Sorry, that doctor's not in network. Press 1 for more options. You've reached us outside normal business hours. The next availability is in three months. But ZocDoc makes finding the right doctor easy. Download the app and search by specialty, insurance, and availability. Read real patient reviews, then book instantly. ZocDoc, ready to be seen? There could be a miscarriage of justice, and I'm going to let them speak, because I'll always get backlash no matter what guest I got on, but I'm man enough to let people tell their story, which I've let you come on and tell your story. for coming on today.

1:27:39I know you can be nerve-wracking, but you're just trying to shed some light on your son's potential case that he could be innocent. So for coming on today, Corrine, I appreciate it. No problem. Going forward for the future, I wish you all the best. No problem, thank you. You get the retrial that he's deserved. So do I, and sometime soon. Thank you. Okay, no problem.