Whistle-Blower Exposing the Corruption Inside Britain's Biggest Prisons - Jeff Tieku Tells All

30:36You see what I'm saying? I try not to look at what they're in for, you know, but there've been times where some are bragged and yeah, what's happened to happen, like, you know, and you're bragging brazenly about as well. You're boasting about that. They're bragging to each other on that level. Some to each other, some to like offices, some would just say it like loudly. And then again, should I say there's times and places where obviously it's jungle justice in it, you know during exercise you know the alarm goes off one's been smacked over like you see what i'm saying yeah you don't mind that but like you see don't condone the organs and you must have a duty i care what's your duty or care for the pedophiles like how because i when i was in the jail in berlinny they used to i think it was e e hall they used to be in but they always got i was on the gym They were always in first.

31:35Yeah. Because we used to just go in the back room because it was very disturbing. There's things that happened to a couple, which I've never discussed, but the screws were good in Berlin. There was a couple of pricks, but they were okay, but they used to come over in the morning, but there was a coldness about them. There was a fucking darkness about them. The little tints in their glasses and the beards and they were fucking, not all of them, but you could tell that they were devious. You could tell that they're devious. Yeah. I could pick that up straight away. Yeah. Um, but again, they were, should I say, heavily protected.

32:09Don't know why. I don't, I really don't understand that system. Tell you a story. I'm not going to go into too much detail. Um, there was an incident, I'm not going to mention the wing either, but there was an incident that happened where an officer's son's daughter got raped. and they put the perpetrator on my wing. So obviously, inmates I've caught with, I thought it was in for, obviously the officers that showed me in it and, yeah, absolutely destroyed that individual. I absolutely smoked. I think he even, I'm sure he got airlifted. Yeah. Yeah, well these things happen man Yeah, you don't mind that I respect officers Because you used to get screws to tell you Listen, that's such and such There was a man who cut a girl up and put her in a suitcase And they would say, listen, that's such and such People would get a heads up Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying Always get a job Yeah, yeah, and they maybe just turn a blind eye for a minute Yeah, yeah, yeah You know But what was the worst thing you'd seen at the very start?

33:23What was the one thing you thought Okay, I'm in a serious job here when one life hung himself. I'm not giving up. I am selling the building. The final season of FX is the bear. The restaurant is flooded. Everything's either going to be okay. Or not. We are outgunned and we are outmanned. We have each other. FX is the bear. The final season. All episodes now streaming on Disney+. Monday on NBC. U.S. Marshall! All new Line of Fire. The thrilling new crime drama. The world sees us as heroes, but they don't know what the job really costs. One family of federal agents. It's one thing to put yourself in danger.

34:14It's different when it's your family. Balances duty to their country. An assassin is still out there. Stop! And each other. How do you protect the world and the people you love at the same time? Every case hits home on Line of Fire, Monday on NBC. But then how he hung himself was insane. Because he used the mattress, he wrapped a liquor trail around the TV stand, and then he's been able to alleviate his legs to cut off the supply from your breathing. And seeing that as well, like, rigamortis, having to administer CPR, yeah that that's when i said no okay cool i'm in i'm working in a serious place um and then as well as when it comes to like the the assaults as well i've seen someone get their head chopped open and i could see their skull and they're saying to me jeff is it bad i'm saying like i've had to wrap my fleece around their head the assaults i've seen have been crazy man you know and it's it's mad because even when it comes to, should I say, see like your UK eyes, some of them have gone into prison.

35:28They've been, they've like held some serious assaults as well. Like, you know, yeah. Oh yeah, I've seen, I've seen madness when, seen people get knocked out with frozen chicken. I've seen, it sounds bad, but, you know, I've seen, um, what's it, someone like, he just like kept his, uh, urine in like a, like a plastic container at the time. but it became acidic, you know, and yeah, but he kept it over like months. And then obviously he tries to use it as like acid, isn't it? Like, yeah, what goes through your head is mental. Fucking scientists and biology. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it's mad when people who can make their hooch and how they can get their mobile phones, how they can get their drugs.

36:16It is a different level. And you think if you can put that brain towards something more productive and it's not crime yeah you would do well i'm telling you there was even even with this bottle this guy lifer he's been able to conceal his phone so he's cut a compartment there cut a compartment there and he's stored these blackberries in between like but you should pick up and think that it's just a i said he's a genius because you're not you're not allowed because in berlin they weren't allowed to open your pringles or open anything that was sealed. Yeah. Is that the way it was down here? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

36:48Not open the water or anything. You couldn't do that. Yeah. Smart. Yeah, yeah. I'd give it to him, man. Did you have any women working? Because now, what about that women getting fucked in the cell? Like, that is madness. But it happens all the time. It happens. You know? Did you have many women working with you? Yeah. Listen, they shouldn't work in that system, man. Again, in terms of corruption, I've opened a cell door and I've seen a woman giving oral to a prisoner. I've just closed it. Because I always say, no one would have believed me. You see what I'm saying? And obviously, that prisoner was getting released the next day.

37:37But to witness that, yeah, and then to come out to say and ask if I was OK as well, knowing that i've seen you do do that like it's just crazy you know and then even with female officers like they're getting like their bums done and their teeth done like inmates are paying for them to get like their bodies reconfigured and that you know i think if if a female's working in that system is is based on seeking attention from men because like you're gonna have that all that male attention the matter how you look but it shouldn't be working there man it's prostitution Yeah But you get a lot of fat Overweight Where they don't get attention You've got men inside For 10, 20 years Yeah You want to shag anything Yeah End up shagging each other Do you know what I'm saying I was only in a few months But when I first went I was on the pass In A-hole Yeah And the fucking two guys Were sleeping in the fucking Top bunk In A-hole And you're thinking What the fuck is going on here Like I was going in at 22 Thinking I'm going to I'm going to get shagged Because I was a handsome Bastard I was on edge thinking I need to keep my fucking wits Because I was scared Yeah.

38:42I'm watching the American movies, not realizing, then once you're done, you realize 80, 90 % are on fucking drugs or they're wasters. Yeah. And then you're seeing people cuddling in fucking bed, and you're thinking, like, what the fuck is going on? It's crazy. Did you ever see that? Also, like, men on men, like, fucking. Oh, yeah. What, what, what, what? Inmates and inmates? Oh, yeah, all the time. Like, during, like, so when you're on, like, your night shift, you do something like roll check. So you go around and you're counting the heads on beds. So, yeah. And it's mad, yeah, because you wouldn't expect that particular individual to be engaging in that.

39:18You see what I'm saying? I'm thinking, and yeah, it's just, yeah. Yeah, seeing that. And it was rife as well.

39:29Bro, it was rife. And that's what you're saying. You're surprised at who is acting, you know? And it was like the most active, like, should I say, gangbanger. I think, bro, is this what you're on? This is mad I was about to say What is it They call it Prison gay Jail gay You know You're either a batty boy You're not You know what I'm saying It doesn't matter What you're doing If you're doing 10 20 or 30 You're locking up your ass If you're doing anything Other than that Then you've always been Suspect There's no such thing As prison gay You're either Sucking dick Or you're not Especially when The trans used to come in They had to put them On the VP wing as well Because they were a target You know And again, you'll be surprised who was involved in all that.

40:13It's mad. Crazy, man. Yeah, people like the ladyboys. It's fucking sick. Crazy. So what happens when the trans comes in? Are you talking about men going through the transition? Yeah. Because in Scotland, men were allowed to then go to women's prisons because they identified women. And then we end up getting women in the prison. It's so backwards. So how was it for the trans coming to prison? So if they were transitioning into a woman, it's only when they get the full work done. So normally they'll come in with a pair of tits, but they still got their own b - And it's mad because even when you have to search them, you have to have a female or male officer.

40:56So the female will search the top, and then the man will search the bottom. It's just fucked, man. Like, seeing that. And it's mad. You know what will piss me off? James, yeah, bro. Like, they'll put me on, like, exercise duty. Again, I'm a good-looking guy. So, like, all, like, the trans will, like, come in the yard and just start talking inappropriately. I'm thinking, bro, I don't even need this, man. And then I have, like, the gangbanger wind laughing at me. Like, it was just, it was, it was, it was comical. I had the sign, but it was just, it was just long. But ain't it mad, though, like, what you have to see and what you have to move through, you know?

41:31Yeah, and what you have to tolerate as well. How many jails did you go to? I think in total seven, you know. What was the next one you went to? So I was somewhere called a riot response. So that's when you go to different prisons or you get cross-deployed to prisons to deal with riots. So I went to... And it's mad because when a riot happens, you then get deployed to transferring prisoners to other prisons. And so that prison may keep you momentarily. So I've been to Dovegate, Loudoun, Doncaster, Woodhill,

42:17Pentaville, Loudoun Grange. I've done courts for like Belmarsh as well. But when you go to life for prisons, it's different cattle. like when I went to Woodhill and Loudon Grange different different species of um inmates why did you go to so many prisons uh just cross the ployed you you get like cross the ployed um some could be for like training some could be like for like refreshers course it was it it depend really but most of the time it was like for concerted and disciplined so like rights yeah what prison is easier what makes a good prison is it the prison guards is it the warden but what makes a good prison I'll say the prison officers because I was fortunate every wing that I went on I built a relationship where officers were cool with the inmates so then you're building that cohesion where say if you get like an idiot come onto the wing thinking that he's bad prisoners will put him in these plates in that person they'll put that person in their place in it and say no that officer's cool or like this wing is cool it's not that you see what I'm saying you know and then obviously if they thought they could carry on then yeah jungle justice in it you know what prison was the worst one?

43:47hmm I'll say Loudon Grange what was that? yeah How so? The corruption, the madness? I'll say more so the madness, because you're dealing with people that have nothing to lose. There's something called mass movement. Are you familiar with what mass movement is? For people who don't know, can you explain that? Yeah, so mass movement is where the whole prison establishment goes to their activities or goes to their designated working areas. So I've seen an inmate get kidnapped on the route. so basically on mass movement i've seen this inmate get kidnapped and like obviously there was like a balcony bit and the inmates got the hello look what tj max dragged in the devil wears prada 2 is now streaming on disney plus and hulu we are digital we are downloadable we are streamable the fashion event of the year is certified fresh pull yourself together we have work to do Critics say it's smart and witty and the perfect sequel.

44:51That's all. Get runway ready for The Devil Wears Prada 2 on Disney Plus and Hulu. Rated PG-13. At ZocDoc, we know you care about your health. You wouldn't do that early morning cardio if you didn't. So the fact that your annual physical is overdue just shows how hard it can be to get seen by a doctor. Sorry, that doctor's not in network. Press 1 for more options. You've reached us outside normal business hours. The next availability is in three months. But ZocDoc makes finding the right doctor easy. Download the app and search by specialty, insurance, and availability. Read real patient reviews, then book instantly.

45:29ZocDoc, ready to be seen? Other inmates, dreadlocked tied around his neck. They're saying, like, listen, I'm going to kill both of us. And it was like a deep drop as well. And they had to get, like, the negotiators. Like, it was just mad to see that. And it just happened out of nowhere. I've seen this guy just getting dragged and then, yeah, tied his dreads around his neck and said, yeah, we're going to finish ourselves there. And they're both doing life as well. And that's the thing, you can't really reason with a life war because they have nothing to lose. So to de-escalate a situation, it was difficult.

46:09When you deal with a man that has nothing to lose, it's crazy. and it's mad because a few of us got cross deployed and I was working with one officer and he's given something called an IEP. An IEP is like a warning, it's like a write-up when you do something wrong and the guys turned to this officer and said like I'm doing 35 years, do you think I care about that? But remember you've done that to me. He said oh it's because Jeff is here, I'm not to do you nothing i said to this officer you need to be mindful in how you deal with these lot they don't care in it so like the week that i've gone back down to like thameside this guy this officer's had his throat cut you know and i'm and it was from that inmate you understand what i'm saying because with lifers they don't they don't forget anything you know you gotta tread carefully with them yeah because they're there all day a bit over thinking anyway, you know, and they're clearly there for a reason.

47:11Yeah. You know, they're bad men. Yeah, clearly tapped. Not every murderer's tapped or a fucking very intelligent. Some of them, you know, switched on. Do you think a lot of officers bring it on themselves? Yeah. Because I looked at the way I worked, where I had no problems at it. Like I said, you had to be an absolute madman to have an issue with me because I wasn't, I wasn't, should I say, a job worth where I had the keys your prisoner, I'm the officer. I was just very humble. So when I looked at the way people worked, especially those that were bullied in school, trying to exert unnecessary authority, it all comes down to the officer's attitude.

47:57But yeah, and I think that's why, should I say amongst the prison population, the relationships I built, and I built relationships with, some serious individuals serious individuals that have been on here you know your ghost Yusuf Danny Simpson Danny Murray I've had time on this podcast about fucking 45 times it says he'll change and every time he ends up back in the jail then I get him back on again or like he had a he had a cushy yeah I love Danny he's a fucking mad cunt I don't agree with Anything he does make He's a cat He's good stuff man And Danny was the kind of guy Who would do anything for you If he needed him If he loved you If he liked you But he doesn't like everybody No he doesn't What was Danny Simpson like in prison?

48:50Because people Because he's so brazen In what he does This is what I do I robbed him I robbed him I robbed him People are thinking This guy's nuts So people question who he is But Danny's proper Danny First of all He can scrap And he doesn't give a fuck Yeah You know People Some people can underestimate him, but that's the worst thing you can do, because he's dangerous. Yeah, he's got a good punch in him, man. Yeah. Like, obviously he used to... So when he was there, when I was there, he was on like D-Wing. He had that whole wing under manners. And the officers, even governors. He had them under manners, you know?

49:24But he was good as gold, sweet as anything. Like, he would sort out any situation with like officers and like inmates, or he'll mash up an inmate if they're rude to a particular officer. They like, so everyone, and remember, you're from like Bexley's side, and that's where most of the officers came from. So they would worship the floor that he walked on, worshipped him. No one can chat for me, man. I can't lie to you. Danny, yeah, hats off to him. He's proper stuff, Danny. Hats off. I've known him for years now, and he's fucking mad. Like, I'll see videos, he's got armed response around him one day and think, fucking hell, how can you live in that life?

50:03He loves it, man. He's a nutter. Yeah, but he brings it on himself. Yeah, he doesn't help him. Yeah, but he'll love that you've, like I say, had his back as well, because Danny is proper. He's a fucking unit, and he knows a lot of people, and he wore it back down. No, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, him. Yeah, Ghost as well. He's a massive ghost. Imagine him coming to your door, bro. You would just give him everything, wouldn't you? With a shotgun, he's already like 8 '9", bro. Fucking give him everything. Yeah, yeah. Just take it. you know what take my missus as well like fuck off get away from my door like he was massive when i interviewed him massive he's very calm very and that's scary you know if he's whispering in your ear listen just stay calm i'm only here to do x1 you're thinking that's more scary it's just yeah and that's the way he was in he just had a calm demeanor never ever kicked off if you got into a situation, we would just about find out because he was so discreet with it.

51:00You know, I've met some menaces, Bouncer as well, you know Bouncer, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he could go. I mean, me and him, we, yeah, me and him, yeah, we had to do with someone that, but yeah, like serious people, man, Bruce Harry, Carl Robinson, Froggy, I've met, yeah. And I'm still in contact with all of them. That's what's crazy. Were you ever wary of any prisoners? where you ever know when you when you've got that friendship there's always one who gives you the side eye there's always one who doesn't like you yeah i had a few of them um um and we've had to get we've got into it basically obviously i've done what i've done like to them this is two separate occasions but it both stem from them assaulting like female officers like you see I'm saying that there's no pride in that you know so obviously when I've inherited that conflict or should I say that beef and obviously what's happened's happened oh but they've one of them put a hit on my head but then obviously where everyone loved me in like the prison they've given me the heads up and then they've transferred like one of the perpetrators up like yeah so it's If we were to see each other, if I was to see those two particular individuals, yeah, it's going off.

52:18Because I know what I've done to them in it. You know. Who's the best prisoners to work with? Because even though the lifers are still good, they're kind of settled. They're still dangerous because like you says, they've nothing to lose. You've got people maybe doing a few months. You've got the drug addicts. Like who's the easiest to work with? Um, short sentences, long term. I would say like long term. you know um you okay cool for example you look at like yusuf dwayne patterson's aura or the way he conducts himself you know as dangerous as he is you know big up yusuf um yeah yeah shout out to yusuf man um that calm aura way he's able to give you like that fatherly advice or whatever um yeah those kind of inmates because everyone knows what that person's on but then to be to behave in such a way where like your mannerisms you know like um i'll say yeah someone that's doing like a long-term sentence that has structure um to even like the way they live you know can you see the change in people like because duane was proper back in the day but then he changes so it must be a shock for people to think, is this the same guy?

53:39Did you see people truly want to work on themselves? We were dangerous, we were tapped to then want to become better. Yeah. Um, especially when I went to, um, like the long-term prisons. So if someone got like a 12 and I've seen the way they behave at like Thameside initially to where they were, especially when I went to Lardin Grange, because I went to Lardin Grange and Woodhill in 2017. and I started Thameside 2012. So you can imagine from back then, them being an absolute tyrant to them being just calm, well-modelled. It was shot. It was shot. I think, right, I could have never envisaged you changing.

54:24You know, I thought that you were just going to bang out throughout your whole prison sentence. But I don't know. I think where they mix with inmates inmates that are experienced or seasoned in that aspect and they've just humbled them so I think it just resonates on like should I say the inmates that are the startup or whatever you're gonna call it do you get background checks and all the inmates do you know what fences are in for yeah what's the worst one you've seen

55:03That many bro? That many. There was one guy, he raped his mum, killed his mum, then raped the dog and then killed the dog. There was one guy, his wife cheated on him, chopped her head off then he started talking to her like saying like why did you cheat with the head decapitated

55:33I'm not giving up I am selling the building the final season of FX is the bear the restaurant is flooded everything's either going to be okay or not We are outgunned and we are outmanned. We have each other. FX's The Bear, the final season. All episodes now streaming on Disney+. Monday on NBC. U.S. Marshall! All-new Line of Fire. The thrilling new crime drama. The world sees us as heroes, but they don't know what the job really costs. One family of federal agents. It's one thing to put yourself in danger. It's different when it's your family. Balances duty to their country. An assassin is still out there.

56:20Stop! And each other. How do you protect the world and the people you love at the same time? Every case hits home on Line of Fire, Monday on NBC. At ZocDoc, we know you care about your health. You wouldn't do that early morning cardio if you didn't. So the fact that your annual physical is overdue just shows how hard it can be to get seen by a doctor. Sorry, that doctor's not in network. Press 1 for more options. You've reached us outside normal business hours. The next availability is in three months. But ZocDoc makes finding the right doctor easy. Download the app and search by specialty, insurance, and availability.

56:56Read real patient reviews, then book instantly. ZocDoc, ready to be seen? A lot of, should I say, underage, like, sexual assault, but it was a multitude. Again, you're seeing them charged with, like, 15 accounts of, like, rape. I'm thinking underage as well. It's just like, like, who are you? Like, you know, yeah, I think the worst offences was the offences amongst, should I say, the sex offenders. They're just grotesque. You wouldn't even think that they're human. They should be put in a separate island or a separate wing. They should not be near. They shouldn't be near. Prison officers, they shouldn't be allowed daylight, you know, because it's not normal.

57:49The brain can't be fixed. Like, the murderer, like, the guy shagged his dog. You know what I'm saying? That's fucking, what the fuck? You know what I'm saying? Like, fuck me. He's killed his mum, raped his mum, shagged his dog, like, fucking hell. And the worst thing is, he was actually, like, one of the enhanced prisoners. And he was one of the first, what, 5 '10 to come in? so then obviously when i've because you got access to something called nomis and that shows all of their offended fences so when i'm looking at numbers and they've um labeled it as beastly i don't know what yeah i'm thinking what and obviously i've become more inquisitive so i've gone google and i typed in his name i said oh my goodness this terror this guy's a you know and he's allowed to mix with other cons yeah but you know what's mad none of the cons knew what he was in for but it got leaked out though you see when everyone whenever someone was found out as like a perpetrator they're getting shipped out they normally get shipped out to like the non-stros but there's a lot of these people you know how a lot of the people go to the detection wing there's a lot of these you see all these rapists and sex cases they're all shitebags but is there anyone who thought do you know what fucking do what you've got to do and wanted to stay on the wing?

59:08Has anybody actually been capable of holding their own? Yeah, I'll say a couple, you know, because they could go, they could throw hands, you know, and they'll state their case. They'll state that obviously what they got charged with was misconstrued, you know, there was a couple, you know, and it's funny one time, and this guy is good as gold to be fair. obviously it's been leaked that apparently he's in for rape or whatever. But then obviously when you heard his story, he was a unit as well. I remember one of the officers, they tried to mock him. They tried to mock him and say, oh, why are you letting him come to the gym?

59:54He's a wrong one, basically. Obviously, he's caught wind of that, hasn't it? When he got released, he pulled up on that prison officer you know he was game no no one i can't like no one could chat for me man he was a user he was like six five six six do you ever switch off though because when you're around these people because i've interviewed people enough people when they're around serial killers and people who are cannibals they actually forget their crimes and they just befriend these people and think it's normal do you ever switch off and actually forget sometimes what these people are in for because you you bolt up a demoral with them.

1:00:31Yeah, and then, yeah, you get that. And then you try to not normalize what they've done, but it's like you just see them as like a normal person, you know, which sounds mad because they've done crazy stuff. Like, you see what I'm saying? You know, but then sometimes like my paranoia will kick in. Like if I was training with like an inmate, I think like any spot in me, I think Like he might Just try to like Drop the weight on me Like you just Sometimes you just I don't know Your thoughts just run wild Do you train with the cons? Yeah Yeah I used to train them So at the end of my Like my career I was like the gym officer It's a good job that Yeah it's lovely I had a cushy number The gym officers Were always sound Yeah always sound Yeah They're the good They are the good screws Yeah You know what I'm saying And they look after you If they like you Hunt Because we only got football Once or twice But if they liked you They got me out every day Playing like a five or six team yeah it was brilliant and then we yeah so yeah working as like a gym officer yeah i had a christy i'll do and it was during covid times as well so i'll get them out we'll do like 250 burn peas as like a warm-up and then we'll get into like our body exercise and that so that i'll say during them periods yeah that made me form like a real close relationship because gym is pretty much They take that as a luxury.

1:01:58So I'm getting everyone and I'm building teams from different wings. I'm saying, this wing's fitting, and you need to fix up. It was like a hell of a competition. Do you ever get nightmares? Yeah. Now and again, not as much now, but before I wake up, I wake up and I say to, this was when I was staying at my mum's. I wake up and I say to my brother, or what cell are you in? And you're looking at me thinking, what? What's wrong with you? Or I'll wake up sometimes and I'll say, oh, what's your prison number? You know? And then it's just like you get flashbacks of series of events. Tell you another peak story.

1:02:49This one cuts for, I was thinking about this one today. um so imagine um my brother had an issue with his so-called girlfriend at the time and um what's it she's got uh she she got a harassment order put on him but he didn't know so they've seen each other outside she's from what him he's from what her so they've reminded him they've reminded him my prison but i've got the drop from like an officer saying you know like the other brother like named so-and-so I said how would you know that so imagine obviously I've gone in the next day and he was on induction I've opened the cell door I see my brother I figure oh my goodness me like um and I think what gives me flashbacks is like when they were transferring him and they transferred him to a prison called ISIS and ISIS was bad at the time you know and the only thing that gave me, that gave him grace was because it was the reputation that I had.

1:03:50So when they heard that he was my brother, like they looked after him and the governors looked after him as well. But that still flashes back because like... When it came to the officers, especially when he got searched in reception, when they found out that he was my brother, they treated him crazy. They just fully disrespected him. I'm thinking, I'm on you's lot side and you're doing that to like my brother. You know that you have knowledge of like my brother. So now and again, I think about that, which is why I don't regret when it comes to outing the corruption. I don't care because you wronged me from like you know what do you think breaks man the most in prison do you think it females maybe yeah females females and drugs drugs spies but in their mindset what do you think breaks them obviously family life family but it must be difficult for men in relationships because if if you're doing a a big stretch it's you know it's the little things it's like the minor deals I remember I remember I've gone to Miami and I've come back.

1:04:59Come back with like a bit of a tan. I'm tan as it is, but yeah. Come back with like a bit of a tan and this lifer that I was doing like 35 years, like he said, like, Gov, like you got a tan. And he said like, F the roads, fuck the roads. And I could see that it's broken him. Like, cause he's doing like 35 years, He's come to the reality that there's no hope. That made me think. And I've seen prisoners, I'll say more so females and the sentencing as well. When they're like, should I say, 10 years deep into a 30-year sentencing terrorist, the head just goes. because it's the time that they're doing that breaks them.

1:05:59You know, having not, and that just doesn't give you hope. What you'll find with life is they always delude themselves with their parole. You know, oh, I'm going to get parole. You know, and you know that you're getting, you know that that person getting knocked back. You see what I'm saying? How many snitches are in prison, do you think? Snitches? Yeah. Loads. There's many, ain't there? Oh, there's so many. People don't realize it. Everybody talks. Men are the biggest bitches. Yeah, fucking pussies, man. But obviously, they try and speak their way out of trouble. And they're not 100 % snitches, but they do enough to get good deals, and they do enough to befriend the screw.

1:06:36For me, it's business as well to make friends with the prison guards, because you want to make your sentence. Anybody with a brain cell, you want to make your sentence as easy as possible. Yeah. You know, you want to get in, get out, and fucking do what you've got to do. but there's a lot of people who they're not on it that way where they just want to cause and fight but did you see a lot of people kissing ass and all that snashes? Oh, that creep. I don't even know where to even begin when it comes to like the snitching because I always found, yeah, it was a scummy business bringing in drugs anyway but I've seen inmates say to officers that this inmate is giving me a better deal than what you're giving me.

1:07:20And then it's caused conflict between the officers where the officers are now setting each other up to get themselves, like, wiped out or whatever because of what the inmate said. Like, you know, it's such a scummy game, man. Like, officers setting up officers, inmates setting up officers. You'll find that, yeah, prisoners, yeah, they're the biggest, they don't help themselves, bro. and then you find out and that's what deterred me from bringing in drugs I don't like people talking shit on my name you know and it's when you when you fail to bring in like a parcel like your name is getting thrown out it's like oi what it's Jeff Finn today like why are you asking about me do you understand what I'm saying but that that signifies that you owe that inmate something do you understand what I'm saying so to see to see that a lot you know or if one of the officers are walking on the wing to say hey gov where's the pattern like do you understand what i'm saying it's just like why would you say it so brazenly as well like you know it's just such a scummy business man what's the worst things you seen nsl phones kfc

1:08:38Nando's, um,

1:08:42officers, underwear, don't see how that got there. Male or female? Female. You don't know these pretty bastards, bro.

1:08:56Yeah, um, I've seen all sorts, man. Listen, like there's been, and I don't know how it's happened. Like there's been inmates that's been able to get officers like pregnant, you know, and that, should I say, couple officers have kept their inmates like child. I'm thinking where and how did this even happen? Like, you know, it's just mad. It's just, James is crazy. like a village of sin it's just it's crazy like walking in hell what sort of tools did you use to find shanks shanks um I've seen someone make like a blade a bladed article out of soap and it was sharp as well um shanks normally they were they were mouthed yeah um the hot the hot water and jam that was I was a good weapon to be fair.

1:10:00How many times did you see that getting through over people? Oh loads, loads. Sugar as well? Yeah, a mixture of sugar, yeah. The hospital trips for that was, it was rife at one point, I'll say in 015, 016. It was just, yeah, and the skin's melting off completely as well. You know, I've seen some horrific ones. I remember one guy got hot water. so him and his brother him and his brother have planned to get the guy the one that initiated the attack they've got a brother and what they kept doing they've knocked him out they've carried him into the cell and they've just kept boiling the hot water and just pouring it on him pouring it on him pouring it on him the guy's face was obliterated crazy and it's only through the luck of the draw like an officer spotted that obviously he's getting hot water just continuously poured on him you know and they've had to come to the seg and that's where i was working at the time did anyone ever escape not nearly nearly um there was one i think they were twins and obviously he he's tried to like swap the the wristband at the end like the visit but yeah he got bagged but I'll say that was the closest escape there's not many anymore is there no no no no everything's unlocked yeah everything you can't move too many hammers too many doors yeah yeah but I'll say that was the closest one from visit but they were twins so what's the worst thing you actually seen what's the worst thing that plays in your mind hmm can you even separate you can't even nah you because it's all fucking madness it's all it's all it's all crazy man um What was the worst?

1:11:46I think when I saw that guy's head split open, because I could see his skull. Oh, no, no, there was another one when I was in Juma prayers. And luck of the draw, it's always Jeff, but they stitched me up. So they put me in Juma prayers with like 150 inmates. And I didn't know at the time there was serious conflict between these two inmates. but this inmates come prepared so he's chopped the guys um he chopped him in his face and i remember when the guy was talking his face was just opening and opening and opening you could just see the flesh you could see the bone and i was the only one that had to stop that like obviously they've looked on ccv and they've seen that um there was an old occasion but yeah when it comes to like assaults i've seen some mean ones man i've seen some naughty ones it's mad I adore the effects it has.

1:12:42Not just, but the same as the coppers. We were raised to hate the coppers, but the job that they have to go through and that's the basis, the same as prison officers. Yeah. Like it shouldn't, it's PTSD. It's like a soldier going to war. Yeah, yeah. You know, like it's nuts. I'll say prison officers are tougher than police officers. Easy. Because prison officers, anything can happen. You can get held hostage. Like, you know, you can get assaulted and that you won't even have the staff there to do all that situation there and then. How many staff in a wing? You're lucky to have three. Yeah, you're lucky.

1:13:20That's how short staff it gets. What happens if it kicks off, though? Exactly. You know, working in the 10 years old, I never ever pressed my alarm. If it kicked off, it is what it is, isn't it? I know on every wing, I always had an inmate that would assist me in dealing with like the situation you see what I'm saying but yeah if it kicked off it's going left man you know was that a buzz as well

1:13:50I'll be lying to you if I said that it wasn't it was because it's a test of character you're amongst these hooligans you're getting pool balls dashed at you like it's going off it's going left and you see with officers officers got like they've got like a funny sense of humor dark humor yeah yeah it's tapped so they'll say oh if you press your alarm you're pussy or they'll say oh what's it or if they see you on camera like running or ducking and diving they'll say oh you're pussy like i understand yeah you see what i'm saying so yeah so i wasn't trying to be that guy man i can't lie to you i was no i wasn't trying to be that guy do you get questioned though if you press the panic button yeah yeah so obviously when you press the panic button is to alert staff that an incident's happening but like you get your boastful officers that will like condemn me say why are you pressing your alarm for like you see what i'm saying like yeah it's just it's just dumb banter what's the biggest sentence you've seen you were in with someone what was the biggest sentence 99 years yeah he was a hit man so he used to yeah he's yeah that's hard so what he would do he would basically stalk the person that had the hip put on them he would stalk them for about three months so he would know the time that he goes to work he would know the time that the guy takes his kids to school he would know the time where the guy would walk his dog knew everything about him and then And he will then, obviously, when he feels that there's an entry point.

1:15:29He said that it takes like minimum three months. Before he kills someone, he will have to study that person's move diligently for at least three, four months before he makes you move. Because he has to understand the routine and a pattern. And if there's like a discrepancy in how that individual's moving, he'll then have to reassess that situation. tats yeah that's a proper hat man yeah yeah you told me that you shaved the hairs off him everything how many did you do

1:16:03so when he told me that he done 20 but he said that there's still should i say cases coming up of hits that he's been involved but at the time he told me that it was 20 which was I think right like and he didn't even look the part he didn't look the part at all but yeah he was he was game man 99 years English? Irish? No he was English yeah just show it listen you don't know who you're sitting you don't know where I grew up like the little trigger men or the big the hard men was the little fucking men nobody spoke to them sitting have a little whiskey yeah I do, fuck. It's not the big ones with the scars.

1:16:48Six feet three, tattoos, bolt like a brick shithouse. Like, you'd be surprised. Yeah. When you look at the IRA and stuff. Yeah. They were just fucking causing destruction and mayhem to fight for their cause. But the majority of them were like five feet five. You see what I'm saying? Tough bastards. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it's mad. It was, yeah, crazy. Yeah, you see, for example, they told me never underestimate. Anyone. Don't underestimate, man. I've seen big guys get knocked out, clean by like a four foot five guy you know the one that was an expert knockouts and he looked like a drug user he used to knock out inmates clean flat out like you know you just you can't underestimate anyone man you know the corruption how bad is the corruption within the prison system what now yeah when you were there oh terrible man it's horrible horrible there was one inmate um call him mr s he had like 16 under his payroll he had 16 officers clean under his payroll um and so obviously even through his operation stemmed from like the kitchen so he even had like the kitchen workers like obviously involved in these operation and then it stemmed through like the faith center onto like the wings you know and everyone had their suspicions about him but they couldn't they just couldn't pinpoint it um and obviously his operation failed because the person that he was working with or the person he was using as like a dummy has got into a relationship with one of like uh the prison workers they're like the resettlement workers they're the ones that get you like your housing in that and so when they've found when they've like exposed that relationship that guy then said no i'm gonna throw mr s under the bus but then they couldn't catch him anyway.

1:18:43So how does it get so many people on the payroll? Is that just people easily corrupt by money? Yeah, easily corrupt by money and it's how much they're getting, you know. And when you look at, I've witnessed certain cases where there was a teacher, again, worked on like the foreign national wing and he made like half a mil, he made like half a million, but he got caught it was just the wrong day like each day came he made like half a more but there's officers that i know personally that's like they've made like 40 50 grand like through bringing in phones drugs you know i think where's your where's your honor man you know because you can make all that money but then it's it's it's the way the name just gets defiled you know your sender your postman yeah you're a runner yeah you're a runner you know you're not a boss you know and it's funny because inmates the inmates are so treacherous they say oh you know he's only able to go on holiday because of me or you know he's able to only afford that car because of me i think i could never have someone talk about me like that bro it's just mad and how many what percentage of prison system do you think are corrupt but do bad 70 70 70 easy because governors as well governors were corrupt even there's even governors now um that like like one suspended because she whistle blew against another governor that was receiving money for receiving money from like an inmate um so it stems from like the top you know and where So Thameside was like a luxury prison.

1:20:29So governors had the power to put prisoners on hold longer than their sentence. And normally you're supposed to stay in Thameside for about six months. But there's prisoners that are staying in there for years. And that's because they've given money to governors to keep them on hold. So there was one governor who was charging, what, I think 10, 15 grand per inmate to stay in Thameside because they had a custody there. So it stemmed from the top. What's all this stuff that we're bringing in? Obviously the usual suspects, you've got drugs and phones, but how much are they bringing in? They're bringing them in big loads because they're getting paid.

1:21:06Because when you're in that game, you get paid beforehand. So you'll get the money. So I'll pay you and then you'll then have to commit to bringing in whatever, but in bulk. So if it's what, five grand's worth, then that means you have to bring in five brands worth of phones and weed or whatever and spice as well spice was the easiest one to get in because there's sheets in it and at that time when i was at him so i don't know about now but they couldn't scan through um they couldn't detect like spice on like the sheets so yeah they were just they were winging it and then obviously legal visits as well like solicitors are bringing in like, um, spies, phones, you know?

1:21:57People have got it more cushy in the jail than they do here. It's bad. Did anybody ever get women in? No, no, no. Never? No, they corrupted like the women officers. Yeah. But you just never know that much money involved. Even when you're saying like bringing women in, like, so, So like an inmate would get like a relative or maybe get their girlfriend to apply to be an officer. But no one knows that what she's been employed for. Do you understand what I'm saying? Everyone just thinks, okay, employed as a prison officer. But they don't know that obviously they've been employed by a specific inmate for her to bring him drugs and for her to do like whatever with him.

1:22:40So what's the stages in when you go to the prison car park? But what's the stages to go through the doors and checks and search? And what's the stages? So like from the public car park, you'll come into like something called the gatehouse. And then on from the gatehouse, that's where you get searched. But it depends on the day, you could get searched like heavily, you know, but normally it's like, there's like a random button on like the door, green and red. If it goes green, you can go through, if it goes red, then you're getting searched, you know? So that's like a phone, no. Like you're taking off like your belt, or you're basically just getting thoroughly searched and you're going through like, like the x-ray, not the x-ray machine, but it's like the machine detector.

1:23:29And that's like pretty, that's every day, you know? What about, do they bring, surely they don't bring in knives? There was one, there was one, um, she got sentenced, she got gelled. She made the attempt to bring in a knife for an inmate, but she got caught. And the worst thing is she tried to even frame... So basically when she was getting searched, she tried to then frame the officer that was next to her. So she's tried to, I think, slip the knife or slip the drugs to the officer to put the onus on her. But they've obviously caught her. How frequently is it? Is it every day they're getting paid, every week?

1:24:11It depends on... there's some that were smashing it, you know, because they'll pick their times of when they're like ferrying the drugs. So the weekend, should I say, was... should I say the searches were a lot less intense, you know, but there was one particular officer I won't mention it but he was he was smashing it yeah he was killing I don't know what operation he had I don't know who he had working with him but yeah he he done well how much do you think? from what the inmate told me because they told me everything over 60 60k like yes yeah how long does it take to corrupt an officer could it be done instantly or can it be a few months everybody can't yeah yeah yeah it depends on the officer's circumstance you know struggling with their bills fell out with their life divorce and they think do you know what fuck it they're going to get it in anyway I can see their method of thinking as well some people are in it thinking it's not the right thing to do but they're getting it anyway and they as well make money from it yeah when life when life hits you that you know it can get you into a stage of desperation yeah yeah so But I know, obviously, the officers that I worked with, we frowned upon corruption.

1:25:42You see what I'm saying? If it got that bad, I'm doing bits outside. I'm going to holler at the people that can make me a coin quick. So I think it all came down to the circumstances. And it's mad, yeah, because it's the least ones that you expect. you know um yeah gel gel told me a lot what sort of stuff were you getting offered to do so there was oh where do i even start okay cool there was um these two irish fellas like they were kingpin when it came to importing like drugs um and one of them said to me oh jeff get me paintings and every painting that you get me I'll pay you like 30 grand but them two were like Cody's innit so I said right what you're about that life yeah then I've gone to like the other fella I said oh how much have you made or blah blah blah just having the general conversation I said oh your Cody said that that he'll pay me 30 grand like a pot to bring paintings from Paris and like he's called he said what forget him he's a small boy but i'll pay you 300 just get me like a stack of paintings like just go to paris by ferry get me a stack of paintings he had me he had me on the ropes and again it all comes down to um just like integrity in it if it's so easy how did you get caught if it's so easy why are you why are you in jail?

1:27:26And you have to just think of these things. Like, why are you in prison? If you're that good at what you did, like, why are you there? You know, but you can imagine, and he was on my wing 2000 and, I think it was 13 or 14. Like, but he was a big timer. Like, and it's mad because I always got along with like the big ballers. I think it's just the way I carried myself. I wear like a Gucci belt, I wear Prada. So they're thinking, okay, cool. He's one of us. and obviously they'll try slipping oh would you bring in this would you do that but yeah I'll say when it came to them two Irish individuals that one that one had me on shaking wood I can't lie about it you don't don't fuck with the Irish bro yeah they're mad they are they've got a big say in the world yes they are I love the Irish I love the Scousers because they're tapped they're crazy but they're very good at what they do when they get in exactly they have a big they run a lot of the prisons and all the scousers yeah but they're everywhere Thailand, Dubai they're always up to something they're allowed to make a coin I'll give it to them did you ever find money in sales did you ever think what the fuck um nah um nah that wasn't that wasn't um common when I was in prison because the money has like no value because everything's like digitalized so it's like i'll look at some of the prisoners accounts and i'll think raw like you you don't need that like they've got like 10 15 grand in like their prison spends account i'm we doing with that man because it's changed days now now with all the technology so what happens when prisoners are in their cell they're doing fucking tick tocks and instagrams like what happens then what in terms of when they get caught yeah but they're incriminating themselves but why Why are they doing that?

1:29:21I don't understand the process. It's just clout. But what happens when they do it? Are they getting an extra ad on? No, no, no, no. So they'll get something called like a security search, like a designated search. So if an officer's seen that this is inmates on social media, an intelligence report will get put in, they will then go and get spun or they'll get searched. if they're successful in finding the phone then they'll go through something called an adjudication process so that would entail um basically you'll get something called a outside adjudicator and the outside adjudicator can add on extra days um yeah so normally yeah it would always lead to like them getting like nicked in that prison but like i said if they're a lifer they don't care So what happens when you're seeing like a Nandoz and a KFC?

1:30:19For me, it's got that deep. To be fair, I didn't care. Yeah, but what are you thinking though? Look, why would they leave the rappers and stuff? Is that a case of - I think it's just complacency. It's just for me. I've gone into sales and I've seen like phones, like being on charge. And I won't lie to you James, like I'll do my job, but I'm not going above and beyond because the protection isn't there, you know? it's like you're up against, you're not favored in that aspect. There's been officers that were jobs worth, you know, and then they've caught an inmate with a phone. And then obviously, and they've done it when the inmates gone to like one of these activities or whatever.

1:31:05And then another officer snitched on the ones that found the phone. and you know I've seen officers get battered for that like you understand what I'm saying it's just it's mad it's a mad environment so it's to try and turn a blind eye in some of it as well yeah sometimes you've got you have to so what would happen if you report that do you then get questioned that you've did you say then that you could have put it there or do you then become a threat that you could get your throat slit it's everything it's everything

1:31:37it's it's It's so hard to explain because, like, okay, cool. From the job's perspective, you can do the right thing, and there's consequences. You could do the wrong thing, and there's still consequences. So it's really about, like, your discernment. And when I have been in, shall I say, a compromised situation, if I walked into a cell and I've seen an inmate phone charged, don't care, like, do you understand what I'm saying? But then if I've seen, if I've gone into a cell and I'm with like an officer, I've then had to act on that. Do you understand what I'm saying? If I was on my own, like, it's just not my business, isn't it?

1:32:24But then it's like the battling on both fields, on both sides of like the fence. Because if you do your job to the T, again, there's consequences, you know, Because there's inmates that won't pet to get you dealt with. It was a very conflicting job. Conflicting in the sense where you had to use discernment, but then you had to also play the game. It's such a difficult situation, because if you're complaining about the prison offers being corrupt, taking phones in, but you're turning a blind eye against the phone. This could be, well, what's the difference? RAOUL PAL, You see what I'm saying? RAOUL PAL, You know?

1:33:10RAOUL PAL, You know? RAOUL PAL, So it was so conflicted. RAOUL PAL, It was - RAOUL PAL, Is it just trying to survive? RAOUL PAL, Every day. Every day was a survival. Every day, James, I promise you, if I go into the jail, I open my Bible, and I read Psalm 91, and I just go in. I read that every day, because inside there is unpredictable. You don't know what can happen to you. RAOUL PAL, And what about the Prada? stuff in the Gucci belts, the Prada shoes, and the Gucci belts, what was the sort of code for that, to wear that? Because obviously you've got the black boots, you've got the prison belt with your trunche in it.

1:33:46I said I wanted to wear a climate comfortable, no one could tell me nothing. And I was the best officer, the most decorated, no one will ever be able to emulate what I did. No, no, I'm telling you. Did you get awards or anything? No, but you know what, yeah. In terms of the prison perspective, I've got egging flowered by them as a token of appreciation. I've gone into sales and scrapped with them as a joke. That commends me as an individual. You see what I'm saying? But yeah, I was envied in that aspect. But I wanted to just work comfortably, to be fair. I'm not wearing them boots. Do you think prison rehabilitates people?

1:34:26or do you think it's just because a big percentage of people end up going back anyway yeah that's the it's a conflicting question why because um when i worked on like the detox wing these were constant re-offenders and there was one individual that i went to i said um why is it that you keep coming prison and he's he was about 50 odd saying jeff out out there's tough you know like out there's hard this is the only place where i get shot that cut me to be fair that cut me um so there's that aspect there's the other aspect where when someone's freedom is stripped completely and they've had it all outside they ain't they ain't trying to get they ain't trying to come back again so it's a bit of a cliche that question i don't personally I don't think it does I don't think it does It's scary to think there's a detox wing because there's people taking drugs in the prison surely there should be more things in place to think why is all these drugs getting in here people are on ecstasy coke, heroin, weed like how there's enough question marks enough answers getting put to why there's so much drugs in the jail we know how it was getting there but should there be more things put in place to try or does it make prison officers life easier that they actually get their drugs because if you're clucking and chasing it you're going to be losing your nut.

1:35:48Do you think it's easier just to let the drugs flow in? Instead of trying to help the convicts? You know, because people are coming out of prison with a bigger drug issue that they had before they went in. A lot of people turn to drugs because they can't handle their sentence. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, it's a cliche question.

1:36:12If you stop the drug, because I remember when they stopped smoking, you can't, when they stopped the whole tobacco thing that's when prisons started to riot and so on and so forth but again they need to clamp down on should I say the drugs because again I've seen inmates die from like taking like the wrong stuff you see what I'm saying and you know having to deal with that situation in itself is stressful man you know it's not cool it's not cool going coroner's court like you see what I'm saying is yeah is on many drug overdoses and persons. Loads, loads, loads from Spice, you know? And it was so mad.

1:36:52It was getting to a stage now. Again, when I worked on like the detox wing, people were just tipping over, folding over from like Spice. And it's mad. I was able to identify, should I say, the main ones that were clucking for it. So I moved them off the wing. And then, I don't know, they would have like, those two that I moved off the wing because I just had that feeling that yeah he's gonna he's gonna tip over he's gonna be brown bread and so when I moved them to when I moved two of them this was on separate occasions to another wing yeah they've died from taking something that they shouldn't have taken crazy sad isn't it though losing your life in prison you know like when you think about what the people a lot of people do struggle and a lot of people don't know their backstory of why they're actually there yeah yeah obviously if you've done criminology you understand their mindset a little bit more it's not that you feel sorry for them but a lot of people shouldn't be in prison either they need mental help did you see a lot of mental health issues in prison loads and and it's sad because they don't get they don't get the help that they get because they've got like a unit called healthcare but healthcare can house how many people you see what i'm saying so a lot just slip through the net and they just yeah they're just neglected in that aspect you know um and there's like a lot of that self-harm bad self-harm i used to see some crazy self-harm like what um there was a guy that he's like cut his cut his arm open but because he's where he's cut it so many times he was able to fidget with like his nerves and that would like move his fingers in there i've seen people like i can even show you photos i've seen people eat like big chunks of their flesh from like their leg as like a form of self-harm i've seen people stick like pens in their heads had to take them to hospital to get the pen removed like that self-harm has been mad there's a guy that used to just put any tom dick and harry like freeze belly in these beddy it's It's just crazy.

1:39:09Yeah, the self-harm as well. The self-harm gets to me as well, because you're seeing things which just isn't normal. Do you get to speak to people about it? Well, the actual inmates? No, like therapy or other inmates, if they listen to us today. I've got a close friend that I'll talk to. You're the kind of guy that just seems that you'll laugh at it, but even though it's serious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if I panic or whatever. Being there and then, I would try and deal with the situation as much as I can. I remember there was this inmate that would take him to the hospital, and he just kept eating out of his leg.

1:39:54And the officers that I'm with, they're flapping. He was a traveler. They were flapping. So I said to the car driver, oh, what's it? Put on some whiz kid. and then Wizkid started playing and he stopped eating from his leg and he's like, oh Jeff, this is a banging chudu he's banging in there that's like, dissolved the situation momentarily at the time you see what I'm saying? because I didn't allow it to affect me I just had to use like humour like sick humour, it's sick like someone's eating from their leg so what are they doing? eating their own body parts?

1:40:31because I don't even know I don't know why they did it but he was this one in particular He was just digging in. Then he'll vomit for a bit, then he'll just carry on digging in. I'm thinking, bro, I'll show you the pictures after this. You know, it's like, and self-harm assaults as well. I've seen people get their ears bit off because they didn't get the correct portion of chips. I could show you pictures of that as well. That is crazy. Chips. So you lasted 10 years? I lasted 10 years. What was the decision to leave? they sacked me fuck corruption selling his underpants that's how Danny Simpson was in here buying your pants yeah they sacked me what happened so basically they said that I had inappropriate relationships with prisoners because again I was brazy with it like if I was out in central London I'm snapping ex-inmates that like used to be with me till one night when I've gone to a place called Bagateau and I've left my car keys.

1:41:42But then obviously the inmate that I was with, we had all mutuals in it. So he tried to drive my car. But he's parked it like a div in the middle of the road. So when police have come to my house, they said, do you know your car's in the middle of the road obstructing everything? I'm thinking, I'll go in by cab, whatever. So I've come to the scene now and they said, oh, who drove your car? I said, oh, what's that? I was with my friends as well as an ex-inmate. But what they've pinpointed is ex-inmate. So they contacted something called the comms department. So as soon as they've heard ex-inmate, they've then investigated me and then sacked me.

1:42:23But then, like I said, their investigation was flawed anyway, because the person that initially suspended me, he was the one that done the the whole investigation you're not allowed to do that so does he wasn't de novo to the situation there was a bias to him getting rid of me didn't like me in here but yeah I got that overturned I got paid out this was the last year maybe the year before yeah so I've gone through like the tribunal they didn't want to take it to that obviously the tribunal court so they've settled in it i said i'll take that yeah do you mess up

1:43:05i missed the banter i missed the banter man i got crazy banter from there i got hella banter um i don't miss it because there's just too many snaky officers man and like it's mad because when you hear that there's like a corrupt officer amongst you you just feel uncomfortable you feel uneasy with them because you don't know the danger that they can bring to you, you see what I'm saying so I don't miss it in that aspect in terms of like the politics or like being stereotyped or being judged or always being the one that's always coming up in people's mouths. Like, I don't miss it at all, you know?

1:43:57So even people are puffing weed. Surely the cell must stink. It's like Amsterdam. So what happens then? To be fair, I'll tell them to fix up because they're going to do it anyway. You know, so even when it came to that, again, I knew how to manage it. I knew how to manage them not smoking so brazy. I mean, if you're going to smoke, do it when I'm off shift. Because it's disrespectful, isn't it? If you think that you can just smoke brazenly whilst it's like during my working hours, like, yeah, you don't respect me. Like, you see what I'm saying? Because I could easily just get you spun and so on and so forth.

1:44:33Do you understand what I'm saying? Was there many top boys in the jail? You know how you get maybe a big yard there, a London gangster? like was anybody who ran the show or was it just all more the Muslim community gangs?

1:44:48So like I said, like your Carl Robinson, like your Bruce Harry's. Who are they? Um, like they were just, they were big timers. I think they worked for like the Adams family, you know, we had a briefing about Carl Robinson. This is when I knew this guy was serious. I don't even know who this guy is. I just, there was a big briefing in reception. They said, um, Carl Robinson's coming into jail do not trouble him do not give him grief just leave him be um and when I saw he went on B-wink and when I saw him training the whole landing like they were doing burpees at like the end of the thing I said yeah yeah you see and he was only doing like two weeks as well but yeah he was different kettle but there's different inmates like I said like your ghosts, your bouncers, your Dannys, like, um, and then you get like your, your gangs as well, like your six, seven, your Peckham lot, Brixton lot.

1:45:47So they had their own level of, should I say dominance, you know? Um, but individually, obviously the ones that I've mentioned, yeah, they, yeah, they, they stuck out to me as well as your Bruce Harry's. Um, who else is there? like there was a period where there was a wing called e-wing that was like the baller wing you know so they had like people like uh mark lambie the triplets um one guy called yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so he was on it again so he had you can he had a he had an army around him yeah he's proper yeah exactly you see what i'm saying so like these are the yeah you know so collectively they had like their own like reputation so what is the code then for working in the prison system and if you've got friends who are in prison how does that work how's that about something called like a conflict of interest so you need to give the prison system a heads up yeah yeah but it's mad because obviously well for himself and i pretty much like knew everyone in it yeah they just said like when when it came to like pulling in like the conflicts of interest they just said like just notify security like verbally that you know the similar because like every five seconds I'm coming into security to fill that form out you know how's life like no I'm good as gold

1:47:11I can't lie to you I live a decent life and that's just through like um like my social circle there's a particular group that I hang around like they're high rollers like the Dylons like their high rollers, like their proper art. So they look after man. You see? And so it's mad because all of my prison officer friends would see in it, you know, and they'll want to be like a part of that, but no, no, you're not cut for it. But yeah, no, I've been, I live a decent, live an okay life, man. Good bro. What do you do with yourself now then? So I'm a service manager. Yep. So what's that do? What's you got to do?

1:47:46So that entails housing young people that's suffered from immediate homelessness or has had broken relationships with other parents. Yeah, you spoke about that at the start. Is that more fulfilling? So fulfilling. Easier? A lot of them really struggles well, mate. Yeah, no, I'd say, because you're not expecting to see certain situations transpire in that environment, I think it shocks me more. Whereas where I'm working in prison, it's expected, isn't it? But then when you're working with young people, again, that have suicidal ideation or when they self-harm, it gets to you more. But I think the biggest reward is just seeing that they've been able to obtain their independence.

1:48:37There's some that I'll meet on the high street, they'll give me a hug saying, thank you for what you've done for me. So that in itself is fulfilling, but it's stressful as well. Yeah, it's like anything, brother. But how are you feeling today? Good, man. Finally came to me for me. What are you doing? I came to meet the main man. What's your social medias and stuff? Are people maybe wanting to leave your message, reach out? Maybe somebody's new from prison that wants to? Oh, all of them will think. They'll love this, man. They'll love it. They'll love it. I think my Instagram's naimi__tiku22 or something like that.

1:49:11Yeah. But they'll be able to find me. Hopefully, you tag me. I hope I get a follow. Of course you, though, Rose. Of course you. Do you want to give anybody a shout out? obviously Big Ro Yusuf Dwayne Patterson I've got to always big him up Marshall Pure Jim I have to big him up as well my old school friends Chidi my friend Jideh Toby Taylors who I worked in the prison with

1:49:40Ghosts Danger there's so many that I could just we'll be here all day no wonder you get fucking sacked yeah you know what I mean no wonder I'm thinking good on the prison system's probably safer are you not in it bro mate everybody's probably clucking because there's no drugs no points no KFCs I'm starting to think you were the problem no never you've just downed some fucking 10 nutcases no one thing that I never ever think I'll tell you what I did do like if a prisoner got battered I see you Avatar Fire and Ash is now streaming on Disney Plus it's the film critics are calling the best Avatar yet Go, go, go, go!

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1:51:35Read real patient reviews, then book instantly. ZocDoc, ready to be seen? And they got sent to like a hospital watch. Like you got them on like a hospital watch. I'll order like a pizza I'll order a pizza for me the officer and the inmate I'm not going to leave the inmate like scramble you see what I'm saying so I'll give him like a pizza and that's outside of the prison you see what I'm saying you know I don't know if you want to call it corruption or humanity Geoff listen you're a good guy brother thoroughly enjoyed your story I wish you nothing but the best for the future would you like to finish up on anything else um don't know just keep going innit and I hope that you enjoy my story and always just gotta give thanks to James for allowing me to be on his platform.

1:52:16Good lad. RAOUL PALAVANIUKHARRADHARDIH That's it, my brother. God bless you. RAOUL PALAVANIUKHARRADHARDIH Yeah, God bless you. RAOUL PALAVANIUKHARRADHARDIH Thank you. RAOUL PALAVANIUKHARRADHARDIH Thank you, Ralph. Thank you, Ralph.