In short
“Scams II” (Armchair Anonymous) shares multiple scam cautionary tales, focusing on how fraudsters exploit trust, timing, and digital communication.
Guests and backgrounds
- Bree Ann (“Bree”), in LA County: runs a small business; remodeled her home during COVID/2021–2022.
- Leah (“Leah”/“Leigh”): from Fishers, Indiana; pregnant in 2016; later discusses postpartum depression/anxiety.
- Brian (“Brian”): from New York City; story set in Hoboken, NJ; young adult using Instagram/Snapchat.
- Petrina (“Trina”), Australia (Brisbane/Gold Coast area): single parent dating again around 2009–2010.
Key claims and notable examples
- Bree: contractor materials deposit scam via a third party intercepting emails (switched to MSN/Hotmail addresses). Money traced to Eastern Europe; tax write-off rules changed, increasing financial pain.
- Leah: newborn photographer scam—paid via Zelle; photographer canceled due to “toddler ER,” studio name didn’t match; owner said photographer quit and wouldn’t return keys; reviews later showed many victims.
- Brian: Snapchat/blackmail sextortion—demanded $700 then $1,200; he paid, then reported; bank reversed $700; account terminated.
- Petrina: online dating scam begins with a “Justin” who was vague about identity/locations and had inconsistent logistics (no car, changing pickup people).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOIntroduction to Bree's Scamming Story
2:34 to 4:15
Introduction to Bree and her experience with a contractor scam.
“No, and it's an important name in Dax's life.”
The Remodeling Plans
4:15 to 6:04
Bree discusses her plans to remodel her family home and the challenges faced.
“Two of them at the time are doing Zoom school in elementary school.”
The Contractor Search
6:04 to 7:35
Bree describes the search for contractors and the complications arising from it.
“It was just a crazy time to like try to get anything done.”
The Unusual Deposit Request
7:35 to 8:13
Bree explains the contractor's request for a large deposit for materials.
“They're asking for a 50 % materials deposit to get started.”
The Discovery of the Scam
8:13 to 10:29
Bree reveals the shocking realization that they had been scammed.
“So we sign the contract, send the deposit, and we get on their calendar for June of 2022.”
Details Behind the Scam
10:29 to 13:55
An exploration of how the scam was executed and the fallout.
“And he's like, this whole time, it wasn't them.”
Impact of Tax Policy on Fraud Cases
14:00 to 14:36
Learn how changes in tax policy have influenced the rise of fraud.
“So you weren't able to get any of it back?”
Personal Experience with Loss and Recovery
14:36 to 15:37
Discover the emotional journey of coping with financial loss and moving forward.
“And ever since that point, this type of fraud has been hugely on the rise because the government's no longer on the hook for that money.”
Lessons from Contractor Interactions
15:37 to 16:38
Understand the importance of communication and relationship-building in contracts.
“But then I think once we were able to start moving forward again, and thankfully we had each other to lean on and we had our kids to sort of be like, well, you got to fucking get it together.”
The Journey to Submitting a Scam Story
16:38 to 17:47
Explore the motivations behind sharing personal scam experiences on the podcast.
“We built it all around the ability to have a nice big Christmas tree right in the middle.”
Show all 30 chapters
The Emotional Weight of Trust in Relationships
17:47 to 19:30
Discuss the complexity of trust and betrayal in personal relationships.
“I don't see how anyone wouldn't have ended up in this situation if they were in your shoes.”
Introduction to Leah's Scam Story
21:43 to 22:49
Meet Leah as she shares her personal experience with a scam during pregnancy.
“Your name always scares me when I see it.”
Leah's Experience with a Newborn Photographer Scam
22:49 to 28:01
Hear the detailed account of Leah's unfortunate experience with a fraudulent photographer.
“Okay, so Leah, you have been scammed or you scammed somebody?”
Dealing with a Scammer Photographer
28:01 to 28:48
The host shares their frustrating experience with a photographer who scammed them.
“And she's like, yes, I do indeed know her.”
The Downward Spiral of the Photographer
28:49 to 30:04
Discussion about the photographer's troubling background and recent behavior.
“So I reach out to this woman when I get home and I'm just like, talk to the owner of the studio that you told me we were going to.”
Finding a New Photographer
30:05 to 31:12
The host discusses finding a new photographer and the challenges faced.
“She wasn't even in town anymore and was just reaching out to people to schedule these.”
Postpartum Struggles
31:13 to 33:54
The host shares their experience with postpartum depression after childbirth.
“Yeah, she wasn't as sleepy and as beautiful as she could have been, but it still worked out.”
The Power of Connection
33:55 to 34:51
The guest expresses how the podcast helped them during difficult times.
“I would sit in my car and be terrified of just being alone in my brain because when you are that depressed and anxious, your thoughts feel like a prison.”
A Special Birthday Connection
34:52 to 35:54
The host and guest share a warm moment about their birthdays and experiences.
“As I always say, you're never having a great time and go, oh, fuck, I bet I'm going to feel elated for the rest of my life.”
A Shocking Blackmail Experience
37:21 to 42:00
A listener recounts their terrifying experience with online blackmail.
“I was hoping you guys would be able to pick for me.”
Dealing with a High-Stakes Blackmail Situation
42:00 to 43:20
Learn about a personal experience with online scams and the struggle to recover lost money.
“I started digging up everything from this user and I started reporting it all.”
The Psychology of Scammers and Their Tactics
43:20 to 44:10
Explore the cunning tactics used by scammers to exploit their victims effectively.
“And who knows who actually sent them the 1 ,200 payment.”
The Importance of Awareness in Online Interactions
44:10 to 45:50
Understand the importance of being cautious when interacting online to avoid scams.
“oh wow i'm glad you got your money back i know a few friends of mine who have engaged in a correspondence in dms and ultimately the person's always like yeah i want to come see you but i need this for the bus fare.”
Petrina's Uplifting Scamming Experience
46:20 to 48:20
Petrina recounts her journey of navigating online dating as a single parent and her eventual scam experience.
“Do you care about the Australian Grand Prix?”
The Red Flags and the Disappearance
48:20 to 51:40
Petrina reflects on the warning signs she ignored before the scammer vanished with her possessions.
“And we did meet in person after a few conversations.”
The Aftermath: Recovery and Investigation
51:40 to 55:20
Petrina describes the aftermath of the scam, her emotional state, and the police investigation that followed.
“which is not something I would usually do.”
The Disturbing Scam Experience
56:01 to 57:08
A recount of a scam where a person lost their possessions to a thief posing as a partner.
“So it was talking to me that whole time.”
The Aftermath and Recovery
57:09 to 58:14
Discussion on the emotional toll and recovery process after the scam incident.
“He pleaded guilty, so I didn't have to go to court.”
Building Independence Post-Scam
58:15 to 59:18
Reflecting on how the traumatic experience led to personal growth and independence.
“But also, like you touched on at the start, Dax, the thought that I'd brought somebody into my child's life who was not the sort of person that I wanted them to be around.”
Life Lessons from Trauma
59:19 to 1:00:38
Insights into how past experiences influence current perspectives on safety and relationships.
“Gives it some validity that it shouldn't have.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous. I'm Randall Shepard joined by Lily Padman and today we have Scams Part 2. Scams are sad. They are sad. Sad warning. Yeah, but they're interesting and they're informative. They're very informative. One of them specifically. I was like, that could definitely be me. They're great cautionary tales. Every time I open my email, there's two dozen attempts to scam me. My techs, they're now attempting to scam me. The world is out to get you. Yeah, the world is a vampire. Please enjoy Scams Part 2. We are supported by the HBO original show, Euphoria. Oh, am I happy that this is back.
0:43If you thought HBO's Euphoria was intense in high school, saddle up. Starring Zendaya, Sidney Sweeney, and Jacob Elordi, season three of Euphoria picks up five years later, and life looks very different. Now these characters are on their own with the freedom to make choices that can build them or break them. No matter what they're chasing, money, fame, power, love, or redemption, no one can escape their fate. Don't miss the third season of Euphoria starring two-time Emmy winner Zendaya, now streaming on HBO and HBO Max with new episodes every Sunday. We are supported by Quince. I'm pretty picky about what I wear.
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2:57Hi, is this Bree? Yes. Oh, wonderful. We don't get to talk to many Bris. No, and it's an important name in Dax's life. I'm aware. My full name is Bree Ann, but I go by Bree. Since you were a little girl, or did that come later? It was when I was little and then went away for a while and then came back like in my 30s. I decided to reclaim my childhood nickname. I'm glad you embrace it. Because as you know, I hate anything multisyllabic, maybe because Dak's privilege. But I think when people have like six, seven syllables, we got to come up with something shorter. That was honestly part of it was I started to do more public stuff and meeting a lot of more people.
3:35And Brie, people get it right away. Yeah. And they'll go, oh, remember Brie Cheese. Oh, wow. I never even thought about that. That's what people would do with Brie. Really? I actually say that. Yeah. Oh, wow. Because as soon as you connect some object to a person, you can remember their name a lot better. Interesting. Like Monica Padman and you think Lily Pad. Yeah, or you think menstrual pad. Menstrual pad. Maxi Pad. I've never thought that one. Okay, so Bree, you have a, well, first of all, where are you? Not too far from you guys, actually. I'm in LA County. My husband doesn't want me to like give away too much exact, so I won't say the city, but not too far.
4:11Okay, so you have a scamming story. I do. It starts back during COVID. Me and my husband, home with our kids. We have three kids. Two of them at the time are doing Zoom school in elementary school. We also have a preschooler. So life's crazy. We own a business. So we're running a small business through COVID where I'm home with the kids working from home. My husband still is able to go into the office. And so we're spending way more time at home than we ever have with our three kids. From the time we moved into this home, we knew it was going to be our forever home. and we knew eventually we would remodel.
4:46So it becomes obvious, this is the time. We're home all the time. Like, let's make this the space we want it to be. So we have this family room that at the time was like an enclosed patio, no insulation, super low ceiling. It had this awful half bath that we called the toilet closet and would like hide from people when they would come over. They had like the office tile type ceiling and like a tin roof. So when it rained, it was insanely loud in there. So really just the kids used it. They watched TV, had their toys, but we didn't spend time in there as a family, even though it was a family room.
5:24We decided, okay, we're going to do this remodel. It's a huge project. It's going to be like half of our house getting demolished and rebuilt. We're in 2021 at this point. It's like a year of planning, architects, getting city approval, all that stuff. And then we're finally at the point in like the summer of 2021 where we're like looking for a contractor. This idea to remodel turns out in the LA area, not a unique idea. So finding a contractor was really challenging. You know, prices were going crazy. We had refinanced our house. There was supply chain issues. Lumber was a lot. Oh my God, we were doing this at the same time.
6:03Yeah, all three of us. Half the labor force was missing. It was just a crazy time to like try to get anything done. But we're like, well, is there going to be a better time? Like maybe the world's ending. So let's just keep moving forward. So we're having a really hard time finding a contractor. And like around the same time, one of our friends bought a home and immediately started remodeling. So we're like, hey, give us their contact information. Let's get in touch with them. We email them like, hey, can we set up a time to meet? You can look at our property. We'll go over the plans and get a bid from you guys.
6:33So all of that happens. It's end of September. We meet with them. It takes them some time to get a bid to us. So it's December by the time we hear back. And we're still trying to get competing bids from a few other people, but literally just getting ghosted by most of them. And then the ones that we are hearing back from are giving us these insanely expensive prices. Right. So throughout this time, we're seeing this company's work because they're working on our friend's house and running into the contractor when we're over there. Like, oh, hey, got your bed or reviewing it. All that. We'll get back to you soon.
7:10It becomes pretty obvious in the spring that we're going to go with this company. So we start kind of going back and forth over email, going over our questions, the contract, deciding like the exact scope of work. All this time, we're also seeing the contractor in person when we go over to our friend's house and just making little comments like, oh, got your email. We'll get back to you soon, whatever. We get the contract from them. And there's one thing that is a little off. They're asking for a 50 % materials deposit to get started. And as you mentioned already, lumber costs at the time were just through the roof and just kept going up.
7:48So their explanation was, well, the only way we could guarantee this price we're giving you right now is if we purchase as much of the materials right now as we can. So we need this big deposit. It makes logical sense. I had to do that. Yeah, I did the same thing. It was like it keeps going up. So if we buy now, it's smarter than waiting. Normally we would stagger this. Kind of exact thought process. We're like, well, it makes sense. We get it. We don't want to pay more by waiting. So let's go for it. So we sign the contract, send the deposit, and we get on their calendar for June of 2022. And so this is like a few weeks out at this point.
8:26And they're like, okay, we're going to deliver a bunch of materials. So we need like some space in your home. We need to be ready to move out of essentially half of our house. And we're going to be living in the house through the construction. So we empty the whole family room, donate all the furniture, pack up all our stuff, get rid of as much stuff as we can. We're like moving out of our bedroom, me and my husband, because that's going to be part of it, cleaning out the garage. So all that's done, two weeks, it comes to the day where the materials are going to be delivered and nothing comes.
9:00So it's not that unheard of. There was no panic yet at this point. Maybe things got delayed. They forgot to update us. So it gets to like the end of the day and I just send an email like, hey, nothing showed up. Can you give us an update? And I have no idea why at this point I realized this, but when I'm sending the email, I notice that two different email addresses pop up, you know, my little dropdown. Oh, as you start to type in the name. Yeah. So it's the same beginning, but one of them is a Hotmail and one's an MSN. Neither trustworthy for me. Yeah, I agree. Unless it's Gmail. Uh-uh. Well, in this company, they're a little outdated.
9:37Like it's not that weird in talking to them we knew that they were a little behind the times so I'm like oh that's weird well I'll just send the email to both of them because I didn't know which was correct next day I'm walking to my kid's school because I volunteer all the time I'm going to volunteer in the library and I get a response from the contractor confused responding like what materials are you referring to? We haven't ordered anything. It looks like we're missing some emails. Can you please advise? My heart just drops. I think at that point I knew. I'm also so confused because you were seeing them face to face.
10:17You were talking about the fact that they had submitted a bid. So now the question is who sent the email, I guess. Right. I go off to volunteer, just kind of shove everything down, text my husband. I think our money was stolen. Call the contractor right now. And he's like, this whole time, it wasn't them. And this is the part that is the hardest part to tell. The part that if I think about it, I can be back there. The feeling hitting me of this whole dream in an instant is just gone. It was a huge amount of money. We'd refinance our house to pull out equity to get the money. It just felt like we had ruined our family's future.
11:00Yeah, all this guilt and shame, right? Which is so unfair. You're a victim and yet you feel immediate. I'm not a good steward of all this. I'm supposed to be responsible to my family. All these shameful thoughts. Exactly. I'm not really a super emotional person, but in that moment, it was that shuddered sobbing, just fell on the couch and was just broken for a while. So how do we think somebody was privy to the fact that you were talking to them? And like created this email. Yeah. How does all that work out? What have you come to find out? So after speaking to the contractor, it turned out that there was a third party in the middle of all the emails.
11:43So they were pretending to be us to the contractor and pretending to be the contractor to us. So the very first two interactions were legit. And then from that point, the email address switches from the correct one to the incorrect one. And we never noticed. The scammer had told them like, oh, here's my correct email address. Don't use this old one. Use this new one. So they were sending an email to some random other email address. And that way, all the emails, when we're asking questions, they're like contractor questions and needing contracts and all that. they were able to pull a real contract from this company that had their logo and all the language and just tweak things as they needed to, to make sure that we kept everything in writing over email.
12:33All the detailed stuff was all done over email. And there's lots of little hints in there to like, make sure we didn't reach out in person. And I think had this been any other contractor, Like if we'd picked just some random person and not been seeing them and had this built-in trust because they were down the street. Once the fog kind of lifted, there were more red flags that we just attributed to, oh, they're in a rush, little things like that. How do you start responding? How do you start figuring out how this third entity entered the equation? It was really just at that point where we talked to the real contractor.
13:14Did someone hack your email or theirs and was reading all the emails and then started putting this together? They hacked the contractor's email. We're pretty sure. It turns out there's not actually a lot to be done about this. It's a really smart con because of that time lag as we sign the contracts and the money. And then they're like, OK, well, here's the date for when you should expect materials to show up. Yeah. Once we investigated with the bank and police reports and all that stuff, they traced the money. But by that point, I had moved through multiple accounts that had then been closed and eventually ended up somewhere in Eastern Europe.
13:52Oh, wow. You read about these scam complexes in Eastern Europe where they are like data centers where all they do is this. So you weren't able to get any of it back? Or really find out any concrete anything. and I have to mention the tax cuts that happened during Trump's first term one of the little things they snuck into that bill was a change in how you can write off losses and so before that point a loss like this we would have been able to write it off and not pay tax on it but that bill changed that so the only losses that you can deduct now are like from natural disasters. And ever since that point, this type of fraud has been hugely on the rise because the government's no longer on the hook for that money.
14:44They're not incentivized to crack down because they're not eating the tax liability. Exactly. Oh, man. So that one really hurt. That was like, seriously, we have to pay tax on this money that's gone. And how long was it a searing pain in your side like how long before this dissipates and you find your way back to like okay we're gonna live not the end of the world thankfully and i will completely acknowledge this is a really privileged problem to have right like oh my poor remodel we were still able to borrow more money to be able to move forward and get the remodel done so it was probably a few months of a pretty deep depression Yeah, I bet.
15:27Just like going from this really high point in my life, in our lives, to just kind of feeling like it all fell apart all of a sudden. But then I think once we were able to start moving forward again, and thankfully we had each other to lean on and we had our kids to sort of be like, well, you got to fucking get it together. They don't care much about these things. They're great in that way. They're only in today. Yeah. This was kind of a final test. I feel like I've had all these weird little signs to submit this story to you guys and just put it out there and like, let it all go. Right. Like let go of the shame and and maybe hopefully help someone else.
16:10Yes. I think anyone who's currently in an email exchange with a contractor talking about a bid will have learned through this that they should get on the phone and get in person. Maybe shout out to all the millennials who don't like getting on the phone because that is 100 percent me. I will avoid a phone call at all costs. Sometimes you got to get on the freaking phone. But that's so hard because you were seeing them. There's zero reason for you to have thought anything. Any red flags. Yeah. I'm so sorry that happened. Yeah. Well, how did it turn out? Is the new living room nice? The new living room is lovely.
16:41We built it all around the ability to have a nice big Christmas tree right in the middle. And so we've now celebrated two Christmases with our big Christmas tree. Oh, good. good so real quick i gotta say i'm not really into the sim i know you guys love the sim all the time but i had not listened to armchair anonymous when it first started i was like i don't have time for more content that's how we feel last year i finally gave it and started listening to it sometimes with my kids i'm like okay this is funny this is a good show and so at the beginning of this year i decided to go all the way back to 2022 and stardom from the beginning and like the third episode in is your guys's first scam episode so i listened to it in january of this year i was like oh my god if they ever do this prompt again i guess i'll have to submit this story yeah and then literally the next month the prompt comes up and i told my husband and he really was not into me doing this he's supportive but he was like really if you want to air out this story for like the whole world but i was like i have to like the world is telling me i have to very sim whether there's a sim or not it's still sim right and i gotta say on the scale of embarrassment i think the harder ones are like when you've come to trust a person in real life and then they betray you and they were always going to betray you yours is pretty low on the i think anything that you could feel dumb about because you weren't even looking at anyone, you know?
18:12I don't see how anyone wouldn't have ended up in this situation if they were in your shoes. I knew you guys would make me feel better about it, but I'll tell you, at the time, we felt pretty dumb. Yeah. This is so cool. Thank you guys so much. Quick shout out to my daughter who's turning 16 next week. She's going to listen to this with me when it comes out. My husband and my fellow armchair Becky. Yay, shout out. Well, shout out Becky. Happy birthday, daughter. All right. Take care. Scams are mean. Yeah, they're not nice. I got to shout out my contractor, Bill. He's just so nice. He didn't scam me.
18:48In fact, he's like losing money on me. You can make more money just being upfront.
19:00Thank you to our presenting sponsor, HP, for supporting this episode. Their HP Smart Tank printer is the last printer you'll ever need. Oh, here we go, Monica. With a refillable ink tank and up to three years of ink included, so you get thousands of pages of cartridge-free printing. Hallelujah. To learn more, search for HP Smart Tank. We are supported by a zip recruiter. Oh, get recruiting. Dan. Did you know the average employer has to sort through roughly 250 resumes per job opening, which when you think about it, it's kind of insane. There's a lot of people to sift through and a lot of time you probably don't have.
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20:16Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And now you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Dax. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Dax. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. So we're in March, which means it's a moment to celebrate women. And I want to take a second to acknowledge some incredible women in my life. My family, of course, and Monica, obviously, who I get to work with every day. The women on our team, the women in this industry who are constantly juggling a million things at once, they carry so much.
20:52They're managing work, relationships, family dynamics, and about a thousand invisible responsibilities that nobody sees or acknowledges. And here's what I've learned. Taking care of everyone else is exhausting. Setting boundaries, creating balance, making space for yourself. That's not selfish. That's necessary. And therapy can be a really powerful tool for that. It's a space to work through the pressures, the expectations, the roles we all play. BetterHelp makes it easier to get started. They match you with a licensed therapist based on your needs. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch anytime.
21:23Your emotional well-being matters. Find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up and get 10 % off at betterhelp.com slash dax. That's betterhelp.com slash dax.
21:43Is it Leigh? It's Leah. Leah. Your name always scares me when I see it. I'm going to be honest. It could go either way. It's a common one that's confused a lot. Well, let me ask you, can it go another way or is the H always Leah? You could educate me now. Are some Leigh's or maybe I'm getting confused with L-E-I-G-H. I feel like H should always be Leah, but I do get Leah a lot. So there's got to be some people out there spelling it with H. I can't be the only one. Where's all this confusion is coming from? Where are you, Leah? I am in Fishers, Indiana. Okay. Fishers, Indiana. Where is that? It's like a suburb right outside of Indianapolis.
22:20Oh, okay. Somewhere on that big loop? Yes. Right outside the upper east corner of the loop. For people who don't know, when you're coming south from Michigan through Indiana, you're presented with this loop. And you can either go east or west. And you don't know. You don't know as a Michigander. They're conceivably the same length. But the traffic will certainly be different. Interesting. That's very metaphorical. Oh, true. Sure, sure. We never know how long that loop is going to take. Exactly. You just don't know. Play the loop lottery. Okay, so Leah, you have been scammed or you scammed somebody?
22:53We don't know. We've not yet had a scammer, but it could happen. I was scammed. Okay, I'm so sorry. Please tell us. Okay, so this story takes place in 2016. I am pregnant with my first baby. And something to know about me is that I'm a very type A person. So I took on pregnancy like it was a checklist. One of the things I knew I needed to do before baby's arrival was to schedule a newborn photographer. You're supposed to get your newborn photos done 10 days after. That's the sweet spot? That's supposed to be the sweet spot. It's one of the most cuddly and bendable and sleepy to get the cute poses.
23:31Of course, what does one do in 2016? But I get onto Facebook and I make a post to my family and friends. Does anyone have any recommendations? What do you guys think? And really quickly, I get a message back from my cousin and she's like, hey, I used to work with this one girl. Super sweet. She quit her job to pursue photography full time. She's super nice. I think you'll love her. Reach out. So I go to her Facebook page. I go to her website. She has glowing reviews. She's a mom to two small kids. She volunteers her photography to you know, local hospitals. And I'm like, okay, this person's great.
24:11Reach out. She calls me pretty quickly and we have a great conversation. She's super nice going over all the pricing packages. And she's like, Hey, right now I'm actually offering a promotion where if you pay for your newborn session in full, I'll actually give you a maternity session for free. And I'm like hard pass on the maternity session. I don't want a stranger in there. Well, I just wasn't Feeling beautiful at that time. I didn't need to remember my double chin I was having at that time. So I was like, can I just get a newborn session at a discount? And she's like, yeah, sure. Knocks a little bit off the price and then sends me her Zelle info.
24:50I pay her. Really quick. Did it seem expensive, modest? Where did the price come in for you? It was a little more than I was hoping to spend, but her pictures were good and she was highly recommended. With the discount, it was like, oh, well, this was exactly where I wanted to be. Oh, great. Shopping math. So I go ahead and send her the payment. And mind you, I have like another trimester to go. I'm like really ahead of the game. So I check it off, put it out of my mind. Well, 39 weeks rolls around, reach out. Hey, can we schedule something? I hear nothing. 40 weeks, reach out, call, message, nothing.
25:2641 weeks, I go and deliver my baby. It is a rough delivery. Had something called a third degree tear. I don't recommend it. Oh, I don't like the sound of that. That's worse than a second degree, Tara, presumably? It is. It goes up to four. Ah. Four's the absolute worst. So don't. Don't go to four. Don't get that. Don't push it. Takes me a couple days, needless to say, before I reach out. I'm home. I send her a picture of my baby. I'm like, hey, here's my beautiful baby. Can we please schedule something? And she replies. And she's like, oh, my God. So sorry. Yes. I've been busy. Let's schedule for this day.
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26:029 a.m. Here's the address. you there. So again, I'm going to make sure I'm prepared for this session, right? So I stay up all night feeding this newborn baby like every two hours. She's going to get a feeding right before we leave and she's going to be super well fed and happy. Docile. Yeah. For this session. So I do, I get like no sleep, but by God, she is fed and we're leaving, packing the diaper bag, getting ready to go. Well, I get a text message as soon as we're leaving and it's from the photographer and she's like, I'm so sorry. My toddler just fell down the stairs. I think she's injured herself.
26:41I need to take her to the emergency room to get her checked out. I can't meet you this morning. And of course I'm like, absolutely. No problem. Take care of your kid. Let me know. And she's like, if everything checks out, I'll call you and maybe we can meet later today. Hours go by. I don't hear anything late afternoon. I reach out to her and I'm like, hey, how is your daughter? Is everything okay? And she sends back this long message about how horrible the day's been. You know, it's taking forever to see a doctor. They are still waiting on x-rays, yada, yada, yada. And I'm just like, no worries.
27:13We can reschedule for a few days later. But for some reason, and I can't tell you why, but I just feel in my gut that I'm not getting the full story. So I feed my baby, give her to my husband, get my very broken postpartum ass into the car, and I'm driving to this studio. I just need to go and I need to find out what's going on because I just feel wrong. So I drive the 30 minutes to the studio, never been there, and I get there and it is indeed a photography studio. But the name on the door is not her name. There's no one there, but there's a phone number listed. I call the phone number and the owner of the studio answers.
27:57And I'm like, Hey, give her a short rundown of the story. I'm supposed to meet this photographer at your studio today. Do you know her? And she's like, yes, I do indeed know her. She used to rent photography space and my studio, but she quit paying me. I asked her for my key back. She hasn't given me my keys. I just had to have all my locks replaced on my doors. Oh, boy. So I'm like, great. Any chance you're free to do a newborn photography session? You pivoted. Yeah. And she's like, no, really busy. OK. Can't help you. I'm like, well, do you think I'll at least get my money back? And she's like, doubt it.
28:35But good luck to you. And so at this point, I'm sleep deprived, hormonal, and I'm just losing my mind. All I want to do is have my little newborn baby's photo taken. And so I call my husband and I'm hysterical, trying to grasp the ridiculousness of the situation. So I reach out to this woman when I get home and I'm just like, talk to the owner of the studio that you told me we were going to. Doesn't seem legit. I don't think you're being honest with me. Can I please have my money back? And she doubles down on her lie. And she's like, how dare you tell me that I'm a liar? This is a family emergency.
29:10You don't know what you're talking about. So I'm just like, you know what, lady, can I just have my money back, please? I'm happy to go on my own way. She's like, sure, I'll send it to you. Give me your Zelle info. Day goes by. Another day goes by. I never get anything back. So I'm like, okay, well, at least I'm going to go on her Facebook page and I'm going to write a review. And I'm going to warn other mothers to be like, just don't book this woman. Save yourself the drama. And I hadn't been on there in months. When I was there before, it was nothing but glowing reviews. But of course, As soon as I log on, there are a multitude of just multiple reviews of how other people have been scammed by this woman.
29:51I wonder what happened in her life where she turned from legit to a criminal. Because that is obviously what happened. Drug habit. Yeah, I reached out to my cousin after this went down and I was like, please don't recommend this person anymore. So she reached out to a couple of friends and apparently she'd recently gotten divorced and had kind of been going off the deep end ever since. She wasn't even in town anymore and was just reaching out to people to schedule these. And there were much bigger sessions she was booking. Well, people probably bought that bigger package. Exactly. The Grow With Me package.
30:23Grow With Me. It's a thing, Monica. Yeah. I know. You have to take your baby's picture every three months or you're a terrible mother. Those are the things that they talk you into doing. That's why we have iPhones, guys. I was never that person to do it. But there was even a bride that had her entire wedding shot. And she did the wedding, shot it, but then never gave her the photos. Oh, fuck. So I don't know. Something led to the divorce. And then the vortex accelerated. It does sound druggish. It sounds either druggish or bipolar-ish. Yeah. Hard to say. And she was a mom herself. She had tons of pictures of her two kids, so it was just kind of wild.
31:04Who'd you end up getting to take those photos? How far out were we? I did find someone that my neighbor recommended. I didn't get it in the 10-day window. It's going to be okay. Did your baby look so ugly? Yeah, she wasn't as sleepy and as beautiful as she could have been, but it still worked out. They came out nice, but I did share with Emma. My drama didn't quite end there. I also had my daycare provider snub me two days before I started work, too. So postpartum time for me was really, really hard. Wait, what's with these photos I'm going to see? Oh, your baby looks so cute. Oh, it's a tiny little girl.
31:47She's so adorable. This turned out perfect. Wait, and now she's a big sister to what, twins? Is that what I'm seeing? No. So the picture on the beach is the baby. The oldest was the baby. And then I've had a second since. Oh, I'm looking at one with a little person holding two babies. So that is when we got kicked out of the daycare two months later. So I got kicked out of the daycare two days before I started work. And so did my sister. I called my sister and was like, your daycare provider isn't going to take my baby. And she's like, she just kicked out my kids too. So that was our Instagram post to be like, what are we going to do?
32:26Do you love having two little girls? They are nine and six and they're the best. Oh, well, you wouldn't know it by looking at the photo that this wasn't 10 days later. This seems really. Maybe it worked out because maybe there would have been a little more wrinkles. Yeah, more redness. Exactly. That baby acne they get. Yeah, the ugly skin pops up. Yeah, they get all of a sudden baby onset acne. Which was rough. That actually gets really hairy. It does get gnarly. You can tell the parents are insecure about it. That's the main thing. It's like, I'm always like, it's fine. I know they start talking about it.
32:58I mean, she's just got, they said it's just baby acne. It's going to go away. It's like, no, I know. Hers was really bad. It takes everything to ignore it and be like, this is fine. She's supposed to look this way. And then again, that's why you get them done so early. The face is smooth. Their faces break out. Wow. Oh, well, it's lovely meeting you, Leah. Yes. If you'll indulge me for a quick minute. Of course. Needless to say, I kind of told you that I'm very type A and had a lot of things go wrong within not only these two things, but had a lot of things go down within my first couple of months of having my baby.
33:38I was diagnosed with postpartum depression and anxiety, really, really severe, really, really awful time for me. And I can't believe I'm talking to you guys. The most challenging part of my life was the three years after having my first daughter, Alice. I would sit in my car and be terrified of just being alone in my brain because when you are that depressed and anxious, your thoughts feel like a prison. And the only thing that could get me out was listening to stories and listening to you guys. And I remember your first interview with like Pete once when you were like, what medication are you taking and what therapy are you doing?
34:19And I was like, oh, my God, other people take medication and I'm not alone. I'm not broken and defective. I was so ashamed of how horribly I was struggling. And I felt like such a failure as a person and as a mom. And it's a week until my birthday. And to get to meet both of you guys, it is the best gift ever. Oh, Leah. I'm sorry you were going through that. That's so hard. I'm glad we were helpful. Yeah. If anyone's listening, it does get better. That is my biggest message. That is the problem when you're in it is you believe this is the rest of your life. As I always say, you're never having a great time and go, oh, fuck, I bet I'm going to feel elated for the rest of my life.
35:00You know damn well you're not going to feel elated. And the same is true on the other side. You're afraid it's never going to end. But it does get better. Well, thank you for that. Happy birthday. Happy early birthday. Happy birthday. I think we're like really close in age, Monica. A few months older than you. Oh, so you're turning 39 this year. Okay, nice. So I agree with you a lot. Thank you, Monica. Just so you know, like we're really close in age and I feel like we get each other a lot. Love it. You're equally annoyed with me at times, hopefully. I always see both sides. They're both great arguments, always.
35:34Me and Monica grew up at the same timeline, so we sink a lot. You had the Flintstones vitamins. I did. I try to get my kids to eat them. They don't like them. The new kids, their tastes are too... Well, the shit got better, guys, is what happened. The gummies are delicious. It's some nice chalky. I love that chalk. All right. Well, happy birthday. Be well. Great meeting you. Thank you guys so much. Take care.
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37:19Hey. Hi. I don't want to say your real name. Have you picked out a fake name? I haven't. I was hoping you guys would be able to pick for me. I hate to be pedestrian, but I'm going with Brian. Okay, I like that. Do you have any objections to Brian? Have you been bullied by Brian? Never been bullied by Brian. or called Brian before, so that works. Okay, great. Okay, perfect, perfect. And where are you? I'm located in New York City, but this story is going to take place in Hoboken, New Jersey. I felt like it might be in New Jersey. You did? I did, I did. Well, shit goes down in Jersey. Let's just acknowledge that, right?
37:53There is a lot. I'm going to set the picture for you. Okay. I'm in my young 20s right now. I'm fresh out of a relationship, and Hoboken is known for a lot of their bars. So I'm going out to the bars, meeting new friends every weekend. I'm not thinking anything of it. Two weeks after just binging the bars nonstop, I get an Instagram follower. My account's private. So I'm like, all right, this is strange. I don't remember talking to this person at the bar. Also, I am in my young 20s. So I'm meeting everybody out there. Was it a hot girl in the photo? It was. Yeah. Hormones are going wild at this point.
38:30So I accept the follow request. They actually reached out to me and we're DMing back and forth nonstop. It comes to a point, it's like late at night, they start setting the mood. They're like, why don't we take this conversation to Snapchat? So as a young person on Snapchat, you're going to be sending pictures back and forth. Really quick. And the promise of Snapchat was they evaporate? They evaporate right away. So you open up, it evaporates. If you take a screenshot, the other person's notified that so-and-so took a screenshot of your picture. So they're going back and forth. Things are seeming to get pretty hot.
39:05The pictures that they're sending back look 100 % real. Like they're in someone's bedroom kind of thing. Exactly. They're sending videos. I'm thinking that this is real life. The most exciting night of real life. Definitely. We're going back and forth. And they're like, why don't you send a video of you? And I'll send a video of myself. They want nudes. Yeah, of course. So I'm like, you know, I'm not really comfortable doing this right now. I don't even think I even met you. So all of a sudden they're like, okay, I'll send one first so you can see that it's real and I'll send you a video. But then they're like, don't take a screenshot or anything.
39:38So I'm like, okay, fine. So they send it. I'm like, this is great. It's real. Life can be magical. So I'm not thinking anything. They're like, can you send a picture of yourself now? So I send a quick photo. Shirtless or your dick? At first it was shirtless. Okay, Yeah, very safe. And then they're like, no, I want to see your face and everything else. So I'm like, all right, fine. Let me cover up a little bit so I'm not showing too much and I'll send a picture. And I guess there was a mirror in the back that kind of captured a little bit of my face that I had no idea about. I wasn't even thinking about it.
40:13You're in an accelerated state of mind. All of a sudden, they take a screenshot of it. And I had no idea because they were using some third party app. and within seconds they send me a screenshot of my picture and they start demanding a payment of$700. I am at this point sweating bullets. I'm like, what the fuck did I just get myself into right now? I'm like, I have a kickball game in 30 minutes. Now this person's blackmailing me for$700. I'm like, what the hell did I just get into? I'm like, I don't know what to do. I'm freaking out. I'm in my early 20s. I can't call anybody and be like, yeah, I just sent this person like a shirtless picture.
40:55And now they're blackmailing me. I'm freaking out. So I'm like, you know what, let me just send the$700. And then it will be over. They send me a Venmo account of who they want the money to go to. I send the$700. I think it's over at that point. Within In seconds of them receiving payment, they're like, now we want$1 ,200. Jesus Christ. I am mortified. I have no idea what to do. It's now 10 minutes to the kickball game. What are you going to do? I'm freaking out. And then all of a sudden, reality, I don't know what the heck happened, but it just clicks in. And I'm like, you know what? Send the fucking picture to everybody.
41:34Yeah. Let all my followers, let the world see my picture. I don't care. They're like, it doesn't work like that. They tried to get me to send the additional 1 ,200. And I'm like, no, because they're going to want that. Then they're going to want more until everything's wiped out. I'm like, this isn't happening. Send the pictures. So then I close out of everything. I start reporting the account. I get my friends to report the account. I did a little researching myself to find out that Venmo account and what other Venmo accounts it might be linked to. I find Facebook pages of the user. So then I'm messaging them.
42:07I started digging up everything from this user and I started reporting it all. And I call Venmo. Meanwhile, my kickball game already started. I'm late. I called the captain. I'm like, I'm not going to make it. I'm dealing with some stuff right now. I'm in the middle of a high stakes blackmail situation. So then I call up Venmo. They are zero help. Venmo is like, it's your own fault. There's nothing that we can do about it. I call up my bank and they helped me tremendously. They wound up helping me get my initial$700 back. So I got my money back. They tried to blackmail me for an additional$1 ,200.
42:44It didn't work out. The account itself wound up getting terminated and I guess kicked off of Instagram. I guess I like to go. I broke even that night. God bless that bank. I know. Because I might be like the bank too. Like, bro, you know, you did all this. It sucks, but you learned a$700 lesson, I guess. Thanks to Tried. I wish Venmo would have flagged their Venmo account. That's what I was trying to get them to do in the first place. I gave them the user's name. I gave them the payment subs and everything. And I'm like, this user is scamming. Luckily, my bank helped me. But there's probably 100 more users out there that actually got scammed.
43:22And who knows who actually sent them the 1 ,200 payment. I mean, I stopped after the first one, but it just kept on going on and on. Well, I got to say there is some genius to the first number. 700. If they would have started with 1 ,200, would you have done it? Probably not. I know. I think they figured out what the threshold is. That hurts, but in your mind, it's like, okay. It's also a substantial amount of money, enough that they just gained$700. If you said$100, that's not enough for them. For sure. Somewhere along the way, they figured out that's not an accident, the 700. now it's just like a fun thing between friends like if i owe one of my friends money and i'm like oh how much do i owe you that was just all like 700 i'm like no that's never happening again oh wow i'm glad you got your money back i know a few friends of mine who have engaged in a correspondence in dms and ultimately the person's always like yeah i want to come see you but i need this for the bus fare.
44:25I had a hospital thing, you know? I know. It was crazy, but I live to tell the story now. Wonderful. Well, I'm flattered we have you listening. Me too. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Alright, take care, brother. Bye. What a sweetie pie. He's so cute. He was so cute. I can't believe he listens to us as this little young boy. I know, playful personality. Glad he got his money back. Me too. We would have had to pay him. The whole time I was hearing the story, do you want to know what I was thinking? I was like huh because I've never used this Snapchat I was like wait it goes away You want to be able to look at that For a minute like how quickly does it go away Do you guys know You can't admit to knowing either of you I don't have that But you need some time How quickly does it disappear I got scared Do you see a fun video And then just once I don't know and then why wouldn't you be able to take You can but then you're outed But then you could just have another phone video Oh that's a good hack Smart for the listener.
45:24Yeah, you outsmarted that one. What I usually do is have another phone video. Sure, a third. Hello. Hello, Trina. Yes, I'm Petrina. Nice to meet you. Do you go by Petrina or Trina? I have two different things on my piece of paper. Petrina is my real name. Petrina. Petrina, where are you? I'm in Australia. Get the fuck out from down under. What time is it there? Well, let me guess. Oh, it must be very, very early. Is it tomorrow? Is it 5 a.m.? It's tomorrow, yes. I am in the future. No, not that early. It's about quarter to seven in the morning. Oh, quarter to seven. How's your morning going? Not too bad.
46:01Just gotten up and all excited and ready to go. Yay. What kind of weather do we have this time of year? It's fall for you guys? Yeah, still quite hot though where I am. We've got big rain events happening at the moment, which is causing a bit of chaos in some parts of the state. But quite nice here today. It's blue skies and sunshine. Are you in Sydney? More northern parts in Brisbane. Okay, is that part of the Gold Coast? Did I get that right? Yeah, we're north of the Gold Coast. Okay. Do you care about the Australian Grand Prix? It was just last weekend. I've seen some highlights, but no, not something I follow closely, no.
46:36Okay, so I didn't think people got scammed anywhere but the U.S. Did it happen in the United States? No, unfortunately, it was here in Australia. Oh, no. All right. People all over the place who do that, unfortunately. so mine's a bit of an uplifting story in the end I think personally so this took place back in about 2009 2010 I can't remember exactly but I was living here in Brisbane Australia and I was about 22 at the time living by myself with my two-year-old child I just recently split up from the child's father but I was living by myself had good jobs was able to support myself so that was all very well and good after about a year my friends encouraged me to start putting myself out there instead of moping around about the separation.
47:21And I was reluctant as a single parent to start dating again, but I did get onto the online dating sites. Can I ask, was your reluctance that you were nervous, like, how will I introduce the person to my child? Or was your reluctance, I have a child and no one's going to like me? Bit of both, really. Didn't really want to introduce a stranger or have the expectation that they had to take the part of a parent. I was quite happy to do that by myself, but it was, yeah, a bit of an awkward scenario to come across when you're of that age. But there was someone I eventually met, let's call him Justin.
47:55We hit it off pretty well at the start. He was normal, easygoing. We had good back and forth conversation, which is rare back then and still rare now to get that two-way conversation going. It did take a genuine interest in me. Wasn't too intrusive with questions or push boundaries with anything. So we took things pretty slow. What was the advertising as his age? He was, I think, 24 is what he advertised his age as. And we did meet in person after a few conversations. Things went smoothly and we dated pretty casually for a little while. And I did eventually introduce him to my child. He got along really well with the child, would play into the little games that two-year-olds like to do and would bring little gifts and make things really nice for both of us, really.
48:40He was sweet. Yeah, it wasn't what I would consider a love bombing stage or anything like that, but it was kind. Things progressed and he'd stay over for a night or two every week. I met some of his friends. We'd hang out when we both finished work. Look, it was nice. It was uncomplicated. And he was willing to take things slow, which was nice for me getting back into that environment. So probably in hindsight, I was very naive 22 year old and was looking at things through rose colored glasses. And there were things that probably should have got my spidey senses tingling. So things like he had his own landscaping business and worked at all these random places, but he didn't have a car to get around.
49:19He was vague about where he lived. I wasn't able to go to his house. He wouldn't tell me his company name. And then just things like he was a landscaper, worked hard all day, every day, but didn't really come home. Sweaty or dirty. Yeah, which is a bit strange. He'd get dropped off and picked up from my house by his work friends, but it was always different people, different cars, and they'd call him different names. At the time, I brushed it off thinking he's just a private person. He's got different nicknames at work to what he goes by and didn't really think too much of it. Did you even go so far as to imagine like, oh, maybe he wants me to think he owns it, but he doesn't and he's embarrassed.
49:59I did, but I also thought, who cares? He's making a living. He's giving it a hard slog at whatever it is. I've had doubts about how serious this business he owned was, but it's his life at the end of the day and he didn't owe me anything to get into the nitty gritty of it. So that was fine at the time. So we're probably about three months in at this point and myself and my child, we went on a holiday with my parents and my family. We were away for about a week and a half. It was a pre-planned holiday. We weren't in a situation where I felt the need to invite him, but he did offer to check on my house while I was gone, water the plants and just tend to things while I was gone.
50:35And I was quite happy with that. So I left him a spare key. We spoke really regularly during the trip, no red flags, nothing out of the norm, just really sweet conversations saying it was exciting for me to come back, missing me, those types of things. And he said he'd stopped in to check on the house, everything was fine and for us to have a really great time. And we were, but I was excited to get back because of all the sweet things that were being said and all the exciting things I'd look forward to get back to. Yeah, you're 22. Yeah, exactly. The day he came and we arrived back home, it was pretty early.
51:08It was about 6.30, 7 o 'clock in the morning and he was meant to pick us up. I'd reconfirmed the time with him the night before and that was all fine, but he wasn't there. And where's there, a train station or the airport? Yeah, it was a train station actually. So he was running a bit late. I sent the rest of my family off saying, oh, I'm sure he'll be here soon. They took my child with them. They had a car seat. So that was all good. I waited about an hour and he never showed up. So he didn't answer any calls or texts. Does he have your car? I didn't think he did at the time. So I had someone else pick me up and took me home.
51:38I pulled up to my house and I noticed that the security door was latched open, which is not something I would usually do. It's a little bit out of the ordinary, but the main door was locked. So I didn't think anything of it. I went inside and I was just really confused. There was junk everywhere, but nothing else. No furniture, no appliances, artwork, jewellery, money boxes, all gone. Went to my garage, car was gone. It was only about a two-year-old car. It was very nice, very new. Spare fridge gone, main fridge gone. Like all the food that was in it was just in a pile on the counter. It was like moving truck style.
52:19Yeah, well, that comes into it. I had some of my grandparents' belongings at the house, a wooden boat that my grandfather had hand made and painted. It was gone. All those really important family heirlooms. In my bedroom, I walked in, there was a lamp on the floor and then just a pile of my clothes just in the middle of the room. Oh my God. There was like food packets, alcohol cans just scattered around the place. My outdoor furniture was gone. So my child's bedroom at the time was the only door that was closed in the entire place. And I was just so anxious to open it, thinking that, look, if all their things had gone, it was just making me sick.
52:56The thought that that had been violated as well was just unimaginable to me. But I opened the door and surprisingly, it seemed to be the only room that was intact. So he's like a 90 % monster. Yeah. He drew the line at the kid. He probably was going to, but then he remembered like, oh, this kid and I gave him presents. I can totally relate to that moment. I can imagine going like, yeah, how dark is this person? How bad am I going to be today? Yeah, exactly. I did later do a bit of an inventory of the room and I did work out the only things that were taken were the gifts that he had actually given my child earlier in the relationship.
53:35So that was a bit strange, but everything else was there, luckily. So my initial thought when I'd gone into the house was that the house had been broken into and I was panicked and worried about him because had he gotten caught up in it or something like that? Calls and texts not going through, not answering. And then they stopped going through altogether. It's like not sent kind of situation. Like you've been blocked. Yes. That's when I realized what had actually happened. He was obviously involved in the whole scenario of emptying the house and stealing the car. I called and made a report to the police.
54:07They came straight over, took all the details, put out the bolo on the car for it to be flagged, told me they'd be in contact, started making that inventory list. And later on that night, they called me down to the police station. So I gave them a proper written statement. And after that, they explained that they'd looked him up in the system. And he had an excessive record of this similar pattern of behaviour. Extensive record of different aliases, charges of fraud, theft, and all in very similar circumstances around this kind of dating a person scenario. and then ripping them off, essentially.
54:39Wow. And that person can probably be juggling multiple marks at once. Possibly. So the really interesting thing that I then found out about that is with the timing, they let me know he had only recently been released from prison. And I had actually started speaking to him within a day or two of him being released. So I had no idea that that was him. There was no landscaping business. There was no job. He was literally fresh out of prison, straight on the dating sites to repeat his pattern. So he was on parole. One of the friends that I'd met earlier, he was actually released from prison while we were in that sort of dating period.
55:18So I met him the day he came out of prison, had no idea. I knew it was just material possessions at the end of the day, but I was like humiliated. I was angry and I was hurt. I was going to ask you, was it so hard to call your parents and tell them what happened? Yeah. I don't even recall doing it, but I ended up staying at their place. I wasn't feeling safe at my house for that little while. But then I got really angry and I went into like a full investigator mode. I went and door knocked my neighbours. They were surprised to see me. They said, oh, we thought you had left. Like we thought you had moved out because we saw that big moving truck here a couple days out.
55:57And it ended up being like the second day I was away on that holiday was when all this went down. So it was talking to me that whole time. Everything's fine. yep, house is fine. Meanwhile, he's got this moving truck at my house, loading it up with all of my possessions. It was a very distinctive truck as well. So I was able to pass that information on to the police, but I did my own research and I found out it was a secondhand store that did him the duty of coming and collecting all my belongings and moving it away. And they paid him$2 ,000 for my entire house. Your whole life. Oh my God. The police issued a warrant.
56:27I was able to go and collect the belongings that were still there, but apparently most of it had been sold, which I didn't believe, but I did get my grandfather's handmade wooden boat back. That's the irreplaceable thing. Exactly. The car was eventually tracked down. He had dropped it just over state lines, literally a couple hundred metres into the next state, and that made the recovery of that really difficult. But I did get it back. It was damaged and trashed, but it was repairable in the end. So I did gather things back, which was good, but he was still out and about at this time, which made me worried.
57:02He knew where I lived. He did randomly send me a text, I think two months after just saying sorry, but then he was arrested about a week later. He was sent back to jail. He pleaded guilty, so I didn't have to go to court. What was he doing when they picked him up? He had gotten to a state where he'd run out of money and went back to his mother's house. I'd actually reached out to his mother and let her know what was happening. And she just said, look, I'm sorry, it's a hard lesson for you to learn and I don't know where he is, but he showed back up at his mum's house. She either turned him in or convinced him to turn himself in, I'm not sure.
57:32But he was in jail for nine or so months and was ordered to pay restitution. So it was about $30 ,000 in the end was the amount of damage and things that he'd taken. He got$2 ,000 for it, but this was over 15 years ago and I'm still getting paid$20 a week restitution to pay off this bill. Really? I didn't even get any restitution for probably the first five years because he was still paying off from the previous crimes that he'd committed and the other people he'd done it to. That was a really horrible way to get back into the dating scene. It took a really big toll on me. Overall, it eroded a lot of trust that I have with the relationships and it made me second guess my own judgment, which is one of the worst things.
58:17But also, like you touched on at the start, Dax, the thought that I'd brought somebody into my child's life who was not the sort of person that I wanted them to be around. And that could have gone a lot of different ways. It was really scary and really hard for me to get past. This is what I absolutely hate about these situations is someone gets completely abused and then they're left to feel terrible. It's the cruelest of all crimes. Yeah, it was really horrible and it affected me for quite a few years. I turned that into a hyper-independence and threw myself into my career. Eventually was able to buy my own house and build my own safe environment back around me.
58:54I did eventually get counselling for it a few years on. I probably should have done it earlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it did really help me to reframe the experience and empower me to forgive myself and forgive the situation, which was really good. I haven't really dated since then, so it's been quite a few years now. But hopefully my next chat with you guys is a meet-cute snore. Yeah, I hope so. Yeah, well, that kind of experience really gives the shadow voice that we all have a lot of proof, unfortunately. Gives it some validity that it shouldn't have. Fuck. God, I hate that guy. Katrina, I'm so mad about this.
59:33Yeah, unfortunately. Happens in Australia, too. I guess it's good to know it also happens. It feels a little better for us. Yeah. I feel like every five seconds someone. Something horrible is happening here. It does. So wait, baby's now what, 17 or 18? Yeah. All grown up, got their license, growing their own little independence. I think we are living a really great life and we're very privileged to live the life we have. And I do think that that scenario that I went through helped form some of that direction. So as bad as it was at the time and for many years afterwards, I'm happy that I've ended up where I am now.
1:00:09Good. Well. It was so nice to meet you. Yeah, incredibly nice to meet you. Yeah, you guys too. We love that you're on the other side of the world listening. Yeah, it means a lot. I'm trying to grow the cherry group. Hopefully we get that spike. Have a great day, guys. Bye. Bye. Oh, I'm mad. How can people be that mean? Ugh. People are really mean. But then people are really nice. Like the ones we're talking to are really nice. Yes. And there's more of us than them. Can I count myself on that guy? I know. I know. I can tell. I feel a little resistance. I have not scammed anyone. I know that. I just feel like that guy, when he was stealing the stuff and then he was going to go in the bed, like so much was going on psychologically.
1:00:55He didn't steal from the kid. Then he did take his presents back. There's a lot. That's complex. Yeah. I mean, the bottom line is, who would I rather be, him or her? I'd rather be her. I don't think your life when you're that way is pleasant. I don't think you're winning when you're doing that. I think you live with all that. I just don't think anyone's footloose and fancy free unless they're a sociopath. Right. Yeah. Unless they've been gifted with sociopathy. It's just so sad because it robs the other person. More than the stuff, it's like a sense of safety in the world, a sense of safety about yourself.
1:01:31Like it's so damaging. It's so damaging. Yeah. Just be careful out there. Be careful. We love you. Love you. Do you want to sing a tune or something? I don't know. A theme song. Oh. Okay, great.
From the publisher
Dax and Monica talk to Armcherries! In today's episode, Armcherries tell us about a time they were scammed.
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