Best of Monday 2024

21:53He liked you. I also don't think I've ever pursued anyone. myself. So I don't know how it works. I can only imagine it can be painful when you pursue people and they don't reciprocate. So maybe his move is not so cool, but he tried. Then I texted him and then I was flirting. Did you say you up? That's what everyone says. That's the go-to. It's the only text actually. There's one button now on younger people's phone and it's just one button that says you up. Ooh, great idea. I texted him and I was flirty and then there was no response. Gross. I was mad at you first because I was the easy target.

22:34And then I really was honest with myself and I was like, man, this is why I don't do this. No, Monica. Yes, it is. That's not the right lesson. Yeah, because I know it's... Listen, stop. Okay. So he... So, you know, it's like he likes you. Eh. That was me protecting myself. And then I was like, you know what? No. I am going to text him. I am going to flirt. And then full ghosting was like, oh, yeah, this is why you don't do this. I totally get it. I've been ghosted in that way as well. And it makes you feel like, oh, no good deed goes unpunished. Why did I fucking open like a sliver of my heart?

23:08And I wasn't going to. I was being smart. Yeah, you went against what you thought was right. But again, there is a reality that this person has been out of town virtually since we met him. And he's being nominated for everything. And there are a lot of girls, I'm sure, in his sphere. Whatever. You say I'm busy. All that's not good, but it does not say that he didn't actually like her. Oh, he liked you. Yes. It's clear to me. But I will say, I don't think it's the last text you'll ever get from him. Well, it might be the last text he ever gets from me. This episode's brought to you by Laudy Mio.

23:37Laudy Mio. My, my, was a mio. Anyway, we really got derailed. I disagree. That was good rail. I think you're right. And I love that you've thought about it. That makes me love you more because I know as my friend, you see me. So that makes me feel really good. And I'm also in good company because it's such a similar experience. I was, you know, in a small group of kids growing up and felt so ugly duckling vibes. I'm going to also say it was compounded by you're in L.A. at Crossroads. Some of the white people that are relative to you are like princesses on planet Earth. It's not even just like you're rummaging around my hometown in Michigan.

24:14It's pretty extreme. And I had a similar thing of like the boy I loved my whole childhood. The elementary school that I went to, we were a small group of kids, was 25 kids. And I was in love with Dax. You know him? I never. My breath went away because I heard you were in love with Dax first came out. Well, I told you, you're the only other Dax I've ever known. That's the only Dax other than him I've ever heard of. Dax was the love of my life, and he did not love me back. All my friends do. I loved him. I loved him. I loved him. He was fucking huge, and he had this big blonde bowl cut. He's super hot now.

24:50He's grown out of his bowl cut, but he's a very handsome married man. In the old days, he was the love of my life. I just knew that that was my person, and we were really good friends. And then junior high, great friends, and I was like, it's about to happen. he's about to go down nothing happened and then he left school but then he came back as a senior and I think he had the nerve to tell me at our 30th high school reunion like oh I was in love with you I was like you know what bitch first of all that doesn't count exactly now and do you even believe him I don't I do I don't believe him like why didn't he tell me then you guys both of you it's easy for him to say now thank you you guys are the smartest and dumbest fucking people I've ever met Monica can you look at my hand and go, of course anyone would be in love with her.

25:35Duh. A hundred percent. And then Maya, can you look at Monica and go like, of course. I know, but like, but it doesn't penetrate. Yeah. It's true. Did you have a thing that I've figured out I have in therapy, which is I seek specifically white male approval so much because that was who was rejecting me all the time. Oh, God. I have to think about that one. I just threw her hands in the air. Like, who's that? A gospel. It just like sent a shiver down my spine. I'm trying to think. I mean, yes and no, because I feel like I've also worked out some things. I also have, well, my dad's Jewish. I guess he looks white.

26:13My dad is superhuman great guy. He's like the best guy in the world, so I don't have bad dad stuff. It's really interesting. There's a type of white guy that I know I'm invisible to. Interesting. And it's kind of like a fratty guy. They can't see me. I don't register for them. They don't know what to make of me. There's just some opaqueness in the air. They don't get it and they don't want to get it. It doesn't compute. And I do find that very fascinating. Yeah. God, again, I'm not sure I believe you entirely, but I think probably 80%. There's no way to know. There isn't. I'd have to be around you in some blowhard jocks to see.

26:51You're triggering a slight memory of being single. By the way, I've only had like three boyfriends. Yeah, yeah. You've not really been single much in your life. No, but that's the thing. They're just long relationships. I haven't been like dong to dong or anything like that. Don't know where this dong ends and that one begins. I mean, it's endless dong. Same time. But I do remember being in a bar once like on the west side. Maybe I was in Venice and my hair was, I started relaxing it when I was at SNL. But before it was my natural curls, it's very thick, natural curly hair. It's quite beautiful.

27:19I've seen many photos and you used to be at the Groundlings with that. At the Groundlings, yeah. Once I got to SNL and could get under the wigs, we had to like reroute. And then I just never got out of the route. I'm going to get there one day. I look forward to it. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Me too. But I was going to say, I met a guy at a bar and he was like, hey, wild woman. Oh my God. And I remember being like, oh, that's what you see. Yeah. You're so right to be upset. And also you've got to consider the source sometimes. It's like, you're like giving these dumb 20 year old people that are drunk some kind of wisdom they don't have.

27:49I know, but they're running the world at the time. That guy's like trying, he's swinging for the fences. Thank you. I agree with that. Yeah. Let me just say, like, you're assuming he really thinks that. And then I'm going like, on the walk up too, he's like, he's running through ideas. I'm going to say, hey, sexy mama. No, hey, chicky mama. Oh, wild woman. Again, butthole is tight. It's like totally tight. You just don't even know what he was cycling through before. Wild woman. That's a zero. You lose. Yes, yes, yes. From 736 with Bobby Lee.

28:26Now, Dex, why four years ago? I've always wanted to ask you, did you go out? There's a long version and a short version. I'll try to do a medium version. I had broken my arm. I had a prescription for Vicodin and Kristen handed them out to me. And I decided I would not take those when I traveled back to Detroit because I was going to see my dad who was dying of cancer and she wouldn't be there to administer the Vicodin. So while I was with my dad and he had all these Percocets, I said, you know what? I have a prescription for Vicodin at home. I'm going to take some of these Percocets. Makes sense.

28:56That was eight years into being sober. I had a total meltdown. Kristen ended up coming to Detroit and surprising me. Did he pass? Two months later, he did. But again, here's the thing where like when I read about you and your dad in your recent relapse, it's like I would have told you I'm handling that whole experience fine. I'm flying home once a week to deal with his thing. The room's full of AA people. I would tell you that it wasn't really having an impact on me, but I did that thing. And no one will like this. My dad and I did sit in his living room looking out over the lake, and we were both on Percocet, and we're both sober.

29:26I don't hate that I had that moment with my dad. I'd never party with my dad, but we were both just kind of sitting there enjoying the thing. Next day, I'm overwhelmed with guilt and fear. Oh, my God, I've relapsed. I'm going to have to reset my day. Kristen comes in. I confess to her what I did. I took this and I wasn't prescribed that and blah, blah, blah. And she's like, look, it's fine. You're here. I have that prescription. You're not going to do it again. And you keep it moving. And I was like, OK. And I kept it moving. But that was almost like when those owls that the falconer flies, they're only supposed to eat the food from the trainer.

29:55if they catch a mouse one time, danger. They're gonna wanna hunt again. Yeah. Because I had that experience and really it was fine and opiates were never really my thing. Over the years, I break a lot of stuff and when I would use opiates, I was tricky. So she would administer them, but I also would maybe not take them at night so I could save up and in the morning I could take three times the dosage. So we're in a very gray area sporadically for several years. I certainly don't think I need to come in and say I need a new date, But I'm also being a little tricky when I have them prescribed. Okay.

30:29Then, in rapid order, I break my hand, all the bones across it. I get all these pins in it. Wait, wait, why are you breaking your arms or your hands? What the fuck is going on? I'm into motorcycle racing off-road stuff. Stop doing that. No. Okay, we're going Monday. All right. So I get all these pins, and then I get a pretty healthy dose of real good opiates for a while, almost immediately after I shatter my shoulder, my ribs, my thing on a motorcycle. Now I have multiple surgeries. Now I'm on a lot of opiates. What was very misleading about the opiates compared to the other stuff is like, if I drink, you will know in one second.

31:01Because the second I'm drunk, I'm going to get Coke. And when I get Coke, I do it for three days. There's no version where I don't do it for three days. There'd be no hiding. In the most conventional sense, it's unmanageable. This was very weird. I'm on opiates. I'm still doing the podcast. I'm still very responsive and present with my family. And I'm going, this is weird. This isn't very unmanageable. This is fine. Other than I know, you have to keep upping your dosage because you get used to it so quickly. Like, I'm not dumb. I know that that's an issue. At this point in your mind, did you know you relapsed?

31:31I think I still had plausible deniability at that point. I wasn't ready to accept that. It was when I started buying them illegally. I was like, okay, now we're definitely doing something. Yeah. And then that lasted for a couple months. and then I decided I have to quit and I started to try to do it on my own and then I was visibly going through detoxes and then I copped to the whole thing. Wow. It's just a sneaky sucker, huh? So when I relapsed after 17 years, I was doing my friend Sam Tripoli's show at the main room and his show is sponsored by a weed company. And I have 17 years of sobriety.

32:10You already fucked up on Mad TV, you got sober again and now you have 17 years again. Yes, I did 13 and then 17. For me, it's always I just stop going to meetings and stop calling my sponsor. And this is years because you think you can do it. I have time, 15, 16 years. I don't even think about this stuff. Yeah. So I'm sitting there and this guy that owns this weed company goes, hey, you know, we have a package when people do the show. And I go, I'm sober. He's like, oh, cool. But I have a CBD thing. And I go, what's a CBD thing? I don't know what it is. What do you stand for? And he goes, this oil has 1 % THC in it.

32:45Just to activate the CBD. Right. But if you just do the dosage, you're not going to feel it. So I drank the whole thing. Yes, of course. And I got buzzed. So I went back next week because my stomach hurt because you're not supposed to drink. Of course. That's all oil. So my stomach really was in pain. So I go, hey, do you have one that's like 50 %? It started getting better. And then I started getting 99 % THC, 1 % CBD. And obviously I had relapsed and it was just that easy. Did you know at that point when it was 99 %? I think when I drink that whole bottle for that 1%, I knew there's something really strange about this.

33:15I think a lot of people who have relapsed will relate to this. You're distracted at first with the thought of just making sure no one knows. You forget that you didn't ever get sober for anyone else. You got sober because you were miserable. But at some point in sobriety, I started telling myself this thought. Well, if no one knows, and I'm focused on them, and then again, deciding to ignore like, well, I know. And I can't really live that way. First thought is, can I get away with it? But you ignored the fact that like, you know. The problem is the eight years of real sobriety you had, that never goes away.

33:50So that's in your mind and your heart. You know now. Yeah. And I was sad and missed that purity I felt. That first eight years, there was nothing on my report card that you could have said was tricky. And then I had several years of just that was in the back of my mind. I still only had them when they were prescribed to me. All these other ways I would justify it, but it never had that super clean feeling that those first eight years had. There are moments in pure sobriety that it's just the most joyous I've ever been. I know. When you have those days, you're like, why don't I recognize I am so much happier this way?

34:25Yeah, I know. The freedom and also your belief that everything's going to work out. You're not looking into the future and going, what if this happens and this happens? You're just really in the present moment, just like, I'm here. I'm free. and I have peace. Those occasions are rare, but I never had them throughout my whole life. Yeah, when you go like, I don't need anything to feel okay is the most miraculous feeling you can have. It's amazing. Because you really, for so much of your life, you can't feel okay without something. Especially growing up, going through all the experiences, I was never taught these tools and this way of living.

34:58There was no internet. I'm just in this violent house of chaos surviving.

35:06From 748 with Babers, a.k.a. Amy Poehler.

35:12This was going to be one of my questions and much later, but I feel like every time I do bump into you, you and I are on a similar self-exploration path. Or maybe you'll bring up something you've been mulling around and I'll think, oh, yeah, that's really fun to think about. I'm going to try that. I was wondering, we have our story and our story explains why we are the way we are. It's so comforting, right? It's like a blanket. Rolling around and it, frolicking in the story. And then this kind of disruptive thing happens where you have children. And one of my two children's, Lincoln, she has all the shit I have without any of the reasons I gave myself for being this way.

35:47And I'm more and more having to maybe consider like, oh, no, man, it was all genetics. The story is just something you've put on top of it. And I'm just curious if you've had that experience with kids and if it's like poked holes at all in your story. Big time. Some of it is watching codependency, what it looks like for them and realizing, right, I did that. I still do that. Seeing that and then having a kid that is really different than you. That's also a big one. Like if they're an island, you're a wave kind of thing. But deeper than the kid thing, if you're getting older and you're doing any work on yourself, there just becomes like an end of act two moment.

36:27And an embarrassment, right? It's so embarrassing. like all these, I always, I never, I'm this kind of person. It's so gross because it's not really true or even really true anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe it's just an old story. And then you got to start practicing your backhand, basically. What is your backhand thing that you can do? You just don't do it as much or as often? Do you want to practice that in act three? But it's so funny you say that. On my way here, I was thinking, I wonder what version of myself will show up in this interview. Oh, that's fun. I wanted to be the authentic version, but I was nervous because I could bring a different version if I wanted to.

37:08Well, you have one that produces great results. This was another one of my highlighted words I just wanted to talk about was performative. Yes, dude. As a concept. Let me back up. You're in therapy, I imagine? Yes. I'm in group therapy and individual. Oh my goodness. And guess what's coming back? Couples therapy. Guess what? Motherfucker. I know. She was sitting right where you're sitting five days ago. So, you know, I'm so obsessed with couples therapy that I do a fake podcast where I play a couples therapist named Dr. Sheila. Question mark. Question mark. Thank you, Dex, due to legal reasons.

37:42And I'm obsessed. And you are too. Why do you think we are? Why are we obsessed with couples therapy? Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm obsessed with all of it. I love Orna. I love anyone that does a good job at anything. So she's good. Her hair and her ability to just look and not talk is crazy. And it just pulls out the thing in the other person that they don't even know. It's so under the surface. And all of a sudden this like recluse is crying and opening. It's unbelievable. And then also I'm obsessed with why is she doing it? Oh, we get into that. Okay. Can't wait to hear. Then the couples. I'm like, thank you for your service.

38:23Truly. And not in a million years. Babers for me? No way. Yeah. That's too much. Yes. And you and I, this is where we diverge a little bit. We do have different comfort levels with that aspect. We do. And I guess probably my explanation, my story is AA for 20 years. I think I'm so used to fucking strangers are there and I'm talking about shitting the bed in an orgy and we move on and I live. I'm working on, this is going to sound so cheesy, this connection, but this is why I'm like, I'm going to do TikTok this year because I know this is cheesy. I referenced TikTok in an interview. I love TikTok.

38:56I was like, what? But the connection really, it's bigger than that, which is how do you allow yourself to be seen? You have to allow yourself to be seen or known. Sometimes as I get older, I realize, am I truly known? It's like a deep ache. You want to be known? So it's kind of like how much do you give away? Who can you do it with and to? You want to be known. You don't want to feel lonely. Yeah. Babers, you're emotional about being known. I can relate. Is part of it to be known, but also to know yourself? Or do you feel like you 100 % know yourself? It's more that I feel sad for the parts of me that didn't allow myself to be out there and be known, which is why couples therapy is so fascinating to me.

39:42It's like this combination of, and therapy in general, being tender and being known, and then also setting good boundaries and taking care of yourself. It's deep stuff. I just love it. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

40:06From 763, Ki Hui Kwan.

40:13This is an impossible gap. Because really, within four years you go from a refugee camp to starring in the biggest movie of the year with the biggest movie star by the biggest director of all time. This is really not a possible experience. How do we get from newly into the States to getting in that movie? It's pretty insane. I was just being a kid, going to school. And one day, this group of people came to my elementary school and they had an open call. What? This is a dream. If I were you, I would actually think, this can't be reality. You're definitely in a simulation. So you didn't, were you like a class clowny a little bit?

40:52I wasn't. In fact, I wasn't even the one that was auditioning. It was my little brother. His teacher thought he was perfect. Sometimes even to this day, I wonder why I was chosen and not him because I think he's so much more talented than me. And he's funny. He makes me laugh all the time. So he was more of a ham than I was. And so he was auditioning for the casting director. And I was just behind the camera coaching him what to do. was telling him like, David, do this, do that. And telling him what kind of expression he should be doing. And I was just like shouting out directions. You're directing him.

41:26They should have hired you to direct him. And the casting director saw me and I was speaking to my brother in Chinese, in Cantonese. He saw something in me. And many years later, I reunited with our casting director. And he told me that they had a hard time finding the perfect kid to play short round. In fact, they went to London, to Hong Kong, Singapore, everywhere where there was a bigger Chinese community. Because back then, Chinatown, Los Angeles was really small. And they didn't think they would find who they were looking for there. So they went everywhere except Chinatown, Los Angeles. Oh, wow.

42:02And they were about to give up. And they said, why don't we just give it one last try? It's obvious how desperate they were that they were going to random elementary schools. Yeah. That's not the normal casting. Yes. Exactly. Especially for a movie of this size. Oh, my God. This is unreal. Okay, so you're barking orders at your brother, which is hysterical. And I can see why she or he would have seen, oh, this is what we need. This is a little guy who's running the show. Yeah, dynamic. And Short Round was a total survivor. I was precocious. Yes. You then auditioned. Then I auditioned. They gave me the sights, and I could barely speak English at all.

42:40Just very little. And then my reading comprehension was even worse. Of course. So I was saying the lines and really messing it up, saying like, Indy, like trying to even understand what I was saying. I'm not even saying the lines. I'm reading the lines. You're just making a series of sounds. Exactly. And he saw something in that. He says, Key, why don't you put that away and let's just talk. Who's he? Mike Fenton. He cast E.T., The Goonies. Oh, this guy's a genius. Yeah, so big casting director. In fact, he told me years later when we reunited again, He said that after I left that room, he called Steven Spielberg.

43:17He says, we don't have to look any further. We found your kid. And this was before I auditioned for Spielberg or Lucas. Oh, my God. What are your parents thinking right now? They had no clue what was going on. And they could barely speak in English when they answered that phone. The first Indiana Jones had come out. We haven't seen it. But you knew about it, right? No, we didn't know. I mean, don't forget, we're living in Chinatown. And we're very insulated by this small Chinese community. So we've never seen Star Wars. We've never seen Raiders of the Lost Ark. Jaws? No. Back then, we had a really small 13-inch black and white television.

43:56We couldn't afford to go to the movies. We didn't even have a car. That's why when they call and they say, we want you to come to Broback and audition, my mom said, we don't have any means to get there. We're out. Yeah. Then we'll send you a driver. Guys, this is not— I know, I know. I'm trying to imagine what the fuck your parents, and they're having the same grapple with reality too. It's like, what is my life? These people are calling to bring my child with a driver. I mean, they must have just been trying to compute what the fuck was going on. Maybe even also scared. Yeah, like, are we getting taken advantage of?

44:29We didn't think much of it. They didn't think I would land the role. Of course. It was like, oh, they want to see him? Well, sure, we'll take him. We didn't know it was going to be a sequel to one of the biggest movies of all time. Thank God, actually. It's great you didn't know. Because you would have maybe felt a lot of pressure if you knew who Spielberg was. Yeah, that's why when I walked into the room, it was this bunch of guys with a mustache and a beard. I didn't know their names. I didn't know any of the work at that time. I didn't know that I was meeting and talking to three of the most successful people.

45:01Of all time. Of all time, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And written by Lawrence Kasdan. Oh my gosh, yeah. I mean, impossible. One of the greatest writers of all time. Okay, so you go in there and clearly you charm them in that audition. Where was it filmed? It was filmed in Sri Lanka. So after my audition for Stephen and George and Harrison, a few weeks later, I was on a flight. Again, my second time being on a flight to Sri Lanka. The first time I was on a flight was from Hong Kong to L.A. I was in economy. And all of a sudden, I'm flying first class with my mom to Sri Lanka. And you're 12? And I was 12, yeah.

45:36They're serving you Coca-Colas and nuts. and all this. Sundays. And what's mom thinking? How's mom explaining this to you? Because you're probably looking at her like, how is this happening? She doesn't know, but she's got to give you an answer. I think she was just really happy for me and proud. My parents gave up so much. In fact, when we got to the U.S., my parents were heavily in debt because they just didn't have enough money to get all of us out. So they were borrowing money from their friends. So when we got here, they were working really hard to try to pay off that debt. And that's why they put their 12-year-old kid to work, you know?

46:12It must have been an insane amount of money relative to what they were making by working. Here's what's so great about Lucas and Spielberg. I was 12 years old. We didn't have an agent or a manager. We didn't have anybody to look after us. No lawyer. So whatever contract they gave us to sign at that time, we just signed it. Yeah, of course. But little did we know, not only did they give me a really generous salary, but they also made me a profit participant. No! They gave you a point of the movie? Yeah, I was able to share in the success of the movie. That's why when the movie came out and became one of the biggest movies in 1984, not long after that, I got a check in the mail.

47:00and that check was so nice that I was able to help my parents pay off the debt. We were renting a little house in Chinatown and I was able to use that money to buy a house in Mono Park where my parents and all my siblings can live a bit more comfortable. Again, the range of luck you have. You've got like the worst luck and the greatest luck all within a span of four years. And I think that's what makes it a great life. And not only that, when the movie came out, Our world premiere was in London, attended by Princess Diana and Prince Charles at that time, who is King Charles now. But going from a refugee camp and I'm standing in line with Spielberg and Lucas and shaking hands with Princess Diana.

47:46They should make a movie about your life. I want to watch this movie. I want to see a little boy experience all this. I love this. That makes me love Steven Spielberg. They were so generous. Lucas had done that too with the Star Wars cast. He gave them a percentage of their - But this like 12 year old boy, like they could have easily been like, eh. But everyone in Star Wars was also a no name actor and he gave them some of the toy rights. That is so rare. You have to fight for it. Oh my God, for anything. To be a profit participant. No, you gotta say no and walk away five or six times. It was like on their own accord.

48:20It was out of their generosity. Okay, so again, you have no awareness of who Harrison Ford is either at this point. No. So you arrive in Sri Lanka and you start working with him immediately? Yes. And is he intimidating? He is a very big man with a husky voice. No, he was not. He wasn't. He was so friendly. And playful? And playful and humble and kind. I would always play with him. Yeah. And he would make me laugh. All of us were staying in a hotel in Sri Lanka. Every day after we wrapped, I would see Harrison swim in the hotel swimming pool. And I would always be on the side watching him go back and forth doing laps.

48:56and one day he asked me he says key come on in and join me and i go i can't i don't know how to swim he says what come here and he taught me he taught me how to swim key this is bonkers this is the best story i've ever heard this is so special i know you know it because you reflect on it a lot and you give a lot of gratitude vocally but how wonderful i guess i have such distrust of anything good, that I would have had a hard time that whole experience accepting it was real. I would keep waiting to almost wake up. As a kid, you don't really know how special that is. Of course. And so to me, I thought this is how movie making is.

49:40Yes. You know, like from now on, every movie that I make is going to be like this. The star will teach me how to swim. Yeah. And you would walk on these big scale, beautiful sets. You get treated really well. You'd have 200 days to shoot. Yeah. So I thought every movie was like, and then very quickly I realized, oh, wow, it doesn't always work like that. It's crazy how good you are in the movie having never done it. I really think it's because of Steven's direction. He's so good with kids. He would tell me specifically how to say my lines. And he would give me directions where if I just follow that, then I can do what he wants.

50:16He was just the kindest. There was never any screaming on set. There was always laughter. We can always goof around. Even though we were shooting on film, it was expensive to shoot on film. You have the process, all of that. We were constantly making jokes, doing take after take after take. And I would hear his laughter behind the monitor. And that's what it was like. So it was fun. You liked acting. Because of that experience. That's the reason why I fell in love with acting. I remember we were shooting in London, L Street Studios. And that's where we built all those stages. I didn't even know this because I hadn't seen Star Wars, but I knew later on, one day Carrie Fisher came to visit.

50:56I remember goofing around with her on set, Mark Hamill. Oh, they must have all loved you. I think they were all there for Harrison Ford.

51:08From 798 with Halle Berry.

51:15I do want to clear up something. This has plagued Billy Bob and I since we did that movie. We had this very explicit love scene. There's an urban legend that we really were fucking. I've heard it. And it's just not true. I believe you. I've perpetuated that. Can I tell you that? Yeah, Dax. I know, I'm so sorry. I've heard it too. Do you know the other one? What's the other one? Angel Heart, Mickey Rourke, and Lisa Bonet. I've heard that too. Okay, great. Now, if we take you out of it, can we take you out of it for one second? No, because I'm in it. You cannot take me out of it. We're going to take you out of it for one second.

51:48Here's the rules. Here's why those things are so sticky and enjoyable. Because the love of my life was Lisa Bonet. She is the number one most beautiful human to ever walk on planet Earth. Mickey Work was the stud of all studs. If you were a white dude, that's about as good as it got. You looked at him in nine and a half weeks and diner. He was so fucking cool. So I'm seeing this dude I would love to be. He's with this woman that's the most beautiful of all time. And you're like, they really fucked? You're like, yes, I'm so happy for both of them. The two hottest people did it. But how are you going to do that with people?

52:23I have no idea. Camera's rolling. I don't know. That's even heightens the craziness. I know. But you've heard it too. I've heard it too. And it's secretly driven me mad all these years. Okay. Well, I'm glad we cleared it up. Yes. Have you heard that I've said it? When it comes up, I'll tell the alleged one. Well, I've said the alleged ones, just like I said, the alleged angel heart, which you heard. Okay. Well, now you can say. I'll say, you know what, guys? I've got proof. That one, unfortunately, is not true. The guy with the sexiest eyes in the world and the other most beautiful person in the world didn't actually have sex.

52:54That didn't happen. I didn't date Spike Lee or Eddie Murphy. Can I just clear that up? Oh, those are rumors, too? Those are rumors, too. I don't know those ones. That must be so annoying. It is. That every time you do a project and you're doing these incredible roles and incredible work and the rumors that come out are always about who you're fucking or who you're dating. You can't just be a good actor and you can't just make that shit look real. You had to really be doing it. Well, interesting. Okay. Let's hear it. Come on. I don't even know if I was basing it on it looked so real it had to be real.

53:28I just want to be clear. Okay. So what were you basing it on? Just rumor? Just that would be awesome. I'd be happy for both of you. That's it. That's what you wanted to have. Yes. I would be so happy for Lisa Bonet and Mickey Rourke if that really happened. But would you have been happy for me and Billy Bob? Yes. Really? He had a wife. So, you know, all respect. She would have had to have signed off. I know Angie, and she ain't signing off on that shit. Yeah, you're right. She's pretty cool, but yeah. She ain't signing off on that. And I'm a girl's girl. I'll do a lot of things, but I'm not going to sleep with your man.

53:58Although in her blood era, she was a little more white. Things were wild. Yeah, but they were wearing blood. That didn't mean, okay, go have sex with someone. You're right. You're right. In fact, it's the opposite. I have not been objectified. So I really can't probably. But I'm trying to imagine if there was a rumor about me and one of my co-stars that had actual sex in a scene, how I would feel about it. As a woman, you would feel so violated. Yeah. There was some wrestler dude. I can't even remember his name right now. Never met the guy. And he's talking about he had sex with me. And people really believed this.

54:32Very fucked up. It is. You feel violated when people dare to just. It's an ownership. Yeah. I don't like that at all, for the record. And I very much apologize for any time I did bring up allegedly this is part of the lore. Sorry. I've been married enough times. Like, you don't need to add on. There's things to me that have not happened. Just pick from the ones that are there. I stopped doing print entirely interviews because I did an interview in Playboy magazine. And you have to know, I was so excited about that. I had read all the Playboy magazine interviews. They were my favorite. Like, anytime you really wanted to get to know somebody, it was in there, right?

55:08And they asked me and I was so excited. And in real life, the interviewer said, you've been linked to several famous ladies. What's the magic something? Let's just say that. I can't even remember the particulars. I go on to try to give an answer that doesn't make me seem like a fucking douchebag. It comes out in the question in print says, you've been linked to a lot of famous ladies. List three people that he did not list in his question. I had not even met these three people. But if you go to this website, Who's Dated Who, it says I dated these people. I've never met the people. So now I'm like, these fucking women think I was asked that and didn't immediately correct him and go, no, no, I've never even met those people.

55:54Oh, they hate you. Of course they should. Where's your integrity? Like, you can't add names. That was so shady. I'm never doing that again. I didn't do interviews for 10 years for this reason. I was so tired of the same star-crossed beauty articles wanting to always make me seem like I'm playing the victim or talking about my bad marriages. Like, I was not. But that's what everybody wanted to talk to me about. Which is why when I came here and I thought, oh, two hours. Because you sit down with people, you talk about so many things, but they extrapolate the story they want to tell about you. And they have the power as the editor-in-chief of their magazine.

56:32Well, go through the filter of their own person. And what they want to spin about you. The story they already had in their head about you, whether you fit into it or not. And what they think is sellable. It's sellable. And I got hip to that. And I just said, no more. This doesn't service me. It services them. I think that's why this is the antidote to that. It's you. And I'll go anywhere and speak in my own voice. I'm happy to. Me too. So you can hear my inflection. You hear if I'm joking. You hear if it's in jest. You hear if I'm mad. Yes. And then ask me anything. Yeah, like I'm saying it's great that Steven Seagal has a reggae album, but my voice is telling you I don't really think it's great that he had to have made a print article.

57:09Thanks for clarifying. I hope it was clear. I don't think that's a great move. These podcasts have revolutionized everything and has given us back our power. I agree. In the same way, social media for all of its isms and ales, it has killed paparazzi. And you and I were unified on that. Oh, I'm going to throw one thing in the mix right now. You and I were almost in a movie together. Really? What movie was that? Well, you were almost in Wanted. I was. And I was almost in Wanted. Really? I almost got the James McAvoy role. He had fallen out and they started meeting people. And I met Timor, that interesting Russian dude, which I assume you met him too.

57:49Yes. And Angie had fallen out or maybe you were a whoever order. There could have been a version of Wanted with you and I. That would have been amazing. Yes. I think James McAvoy is much better than I am. Just for the record. But can you imagine? That would be freaky if we had been in Wanted. That was a very successful film. I know. My friend Mark Platt produced that. I was like, Mark, you should have given me that. Yeah. Just give me that. Give me that. Give me stuff. Yes, Ben. We love Ben. I do, too. Oh, my God. I grew up with them. I invested in Wicked. So that's how far back I go. Wow. No way.

58:22Good for you. We cried your fucking lations. One of the smartest things I ever freaking did. Well, you already know it. You fucking won the Academy Award for it. But boy, I love Monsters Ball. You're so impossibly great in it. I'm going to bring up Catwoman, women, woman, only for a single reason, which is, I think this is the most gangster move ever. You, Catwoman. Why can't I say women? That's right, because there are many of us. That's right. There's Catwoman. It's a Freudian slip. You do, Catwoman. You win a Razzie, and you go accept it, and you bring with you in your hand your Oscar. Oh, hell yeah.

58:58I did not know this. And you hold the Razzie in one hand and the Oscar in the other. And I'm like, that's cooler than you having fucked Billy Bob Thornton as legend. I was like, oh, my God, that is fucking so cool. That's life, right? Do you have to work your way up to that decision or you immediately know, fuck it, I'm going to go do this? Oh, I immediately knew that. It's so cool. I also had a fundamental knowing that when I won that Oscar, it didn't mean I was the best. It meant I won. Because what is the best performance? Again, it's subjective. So it just meant I won. And I knew when they tried to give me the Razzie, it didn't mean I was the worst.

59:31It just meant I won that fucking thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very healthy. I know that. I thought if you can go and accept an accolade, then you must be of the same character and substance to go accept something when they're telling you, okay, it sucked balls. You must be able to be the same person. It's just so confident and attractive. It is. It's so cool. It's so classy. It was so fun to get up there and make jokes. And I wrote my whole speech and I was like ready to rock. What speech was better, the Oscar speech or the Razzie speech? I hope you laugh and you're like, fuck, I kind of. I put way more energy in my Razzie speech.

1:00:04The Oscar speech, I didn't even write a speech. I didn't think I was going to win. I thought Sissy Spacek was going to win. Because back in those days, whoever won the Golden Globe pretty much always won the Oscar. And she won the Golden Globe. So I pretty much knew after that, okay, this was a fun ride. I got nominated. Sorry, Dee Dee. I didn't do it for you. But now I'm sisters with you in this. Right. Either way, there would have been a connection. Yeah. Were you the first black actor to win a Razzie? You don't write that in the book. Probably. What did you got? I was the first one to bring their Oscar, that's for sure.

1:00:35Yeah. Somewhere there was a first in Met. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

1:00:49From 771 with Jack Black.

1:00:56Okay, so who breaks out the blotter or the devil's dander first? I was introduced to LSD. I guess I was maybe 14 or maybe 13. It was a friend of mine. I'm not looking for a name. I'm just curious. Were you hanging with a 26-year-old dude that was a tradesman? He was older. I did look up to him like a big brother figure. I had a thing where I wanted a father figure, even though I had a great dad. But I wanted the dark dad. I wanted the one that was going to show me the ways of the dark side. And this guy filled in that role. We did acid. And I remember that night laughing as hard as I'd ever laughed and having this strange feeling of being whole for the first time.

1:01:40And suddenly this big, dark, mysterious universe that I didn't know how I fit into, it all felt right. laughing till I cried and having kind of a weird spiritual experience. But then it led to the darkest day or night of my life where it wouldn't stop and it stopped being fun. And it was so bad that I was locked in this insane brain prison where all I could see was chess pieces going off into infinity, playing a game with myself. And I had this terror that I was never going to break free of it. And it was like, as good as that first hour and a half was, it wasn't worth it. And thank God I made it through the night.

1:02:24I don't think I slept a minute. Once the thought enters your mind, this may be permanent. The second you have that, you're fucking cooked for hours. Yeah. You're like, oh, shit. You're remembering stories you heard growing up of like, you know, Mike Benner. I saw him at the gas station. He's been tripping for four years. You have this one story. And you're like, oh, wow, this is happening to me. I'm going to be him. So you stopped doing it after that? I might have done it again after that. Sure, sure. I was like, no, I think I got some bad acid. That's what I heard. Sometimes you get the bad one.

1:02:56There was a few hallucinogenic experiences, mushrooms and acid. But Coke, now that's a sexy dance partner. Well, I was just down to clown with anything that my big bro or my crew of heavy metal maniacs were into at the time. It wasn't a gang, but it was like a brotherhood. There was some Coke. You know, when you first take it, there's an initial rush and a feeling. It's similar in that a doorway opens in your brain and you're like, I fucking get it now and I have a lot of brilliant things to say really fast. And you go for hours and hours and you say some things where you're talking about love and you're talking about connections and you're talking about things in the future that you're going to do.

1:03:36And it's, in retrospect, so embarrassing. It is. Thank God there was no recording, but it actually would have been nice if someone had recorded it just to play back as a cautionary tale of how ridiculous you can sound. I witnessed myself a single time I had been recorded by my girlfriend, and it's a bummer. I mean, I think that might be the lowest feeling I've had is looking at my face and going, how I thought I was coming across versus what I'm seeing now, what a gap. But I would say the thing I liked about it most is I'm not optimistic. I'm very pessimistic. Couple toots of that stuff. And I'm like, you know what?

1:04:15Everything is going to work out. I got spiritual. I like talking about God and stuff that I don't usually talk about. And I don't really feel a connection to. I'm definitely leaning atheist. But for some reason, once I get all coked up or whatever the drug may be. There's a version that brings out a nice side of yourself, which is like, I'm so interested in whoever I'm talking to. Someone will be telling me that their father was a firefighter. And I'm like, wait a minute. And this is sincere. I'm like, oh my God. So your dad was like a firefighter? Yeah. And I'm in it. This guy's dad was a hero.

1:04:48Tell me more. And I want to know about the movie of their life where their hero dad was - You already want that. You don't need - Imagine it squared. It seems intense. It gives you a brief energy that lets you delve deeper than you normally would with other people. Maybe that's why Freud supposedly used it a lot in sessions. Oh, yeah. So that they could go deeper than they usually would about themselves and about the nooks and crannies of their personality. Was the move to crosswords crossroads? Crosswords. We should open a competing school across the street called Crosswords. But were your parents sensing we need to put him somewhere else and get him out of this crew?

1:05:27Yeah, but in the midst of all of that turmoil and darkness, there was someone from the crew. This dude was into this person who we had all met when we got on a bus and went to the arcade in Westwood. It was called Westworld, back when arcades were a thing. Play your favorite tabletop video games. And we met these girls, and we both fell for the same girl, and he kind of called dibs or whatever. And I was like, dibs, shmibs. and then I started a romance on the side and he didn't know and then when he found out he wanted to kill me and then he did beat the shit out of me it wasn't over yet there was going to be some more ass kicking my parents just noticed that shit was going sideways and they were like we got to get you the fuck out of there and I was like yeah I agree I don't want to be here anymore were you so relieved because you maybe wouldn't have sent up the white flag I don't know what would have happened there so I went to this little tiny school called Poseidon that was on Pico between Bundy and Barrington.

1:06:26It's not there anymore. And it was a school with a lot of kids that had been kicked out of their schools from all over the city. And it was kind of a last chance kind of school. Yeah, it was the island of broken toys. Yeah. Misfit island. But it had some great teachers in it. There was a theater teacher named Deb Devine, who I latched onto, and she taught us all improvisation games and viola bowling games and got us all thinking about telling stories. And it was kind of like theater therapy. You could work out some of your demons by playing roles and just coming off the top of your head with shit you're going to say to the other person in the scene.

1:07:03It was kind of amazing. And she is still a great theater force in Los Angeles. She's got a theater called 21st Street Theater here in downtown LA. She has outreach programs to kids all over the city who come and learn theater. She's an awesome lady. That's so cool. Yeah. There was also like a therapist in the school. There's only like 20 kids in the school, but the therapist was a bodybuilder also. Oh, wonderful. Because sometimes he would have to defend himself. There's some rough characters at this school. Mixed messages. Yeah. Were there smoking breaks built in? I'm being sincere. There was smoking.

1:07:35And there was kids going in to see him and talk to him, and I was like, what's going on in there? Because there were some kids that it was compulsory. They had to go talk to the therapist a certain amount of times a week. And I was not in that group. And I was jealous. I was like, I want to talk to the muscle building therapist. Yeah. I talked to him just on the side. I was like, how do you get into there? And it's like, you can come in if you want. You want to set an appointment? I was like, yeah. And I went in there. I just wanted to see what was going on in here. And we got to talking. And then it only took me about a minute before I started spilling my guts about how I had stolen money from my mom and all the shit that I was carrying around how guilty I was doing drugs, the drugs, but mainly the betrayal of my mom, who just was an unconditional love for me.

1:08:16And she didn't know that I had stolen money to get the drugs. And I just bawled my eyes out. I cried so hard and it felt so good because I grew up with a Jewish upbringing and I learned a lot of my value system there, but I didn't have confessional. And there was something about just sitting there with this therapist and just confessing my sins or whatever you want to call it, my guilt, that felt so cleansing. Your shame. Yes. I saw him for the next year, once a week, and it was like a major turning point for me. Yeah, that's really lucky. From 786 with Vince Vaughn.

1:08:57You guys did couples retreat, and I was there just hanging for like the whole six weeks. We were friendly to each other. But in my mind, we took a flight during the press tour, and you and I were the only people that didn't fall asleep. We were flying to, like, Australia. I remember it. And we're chatting, chatting, chatting, and it's fine. We're both awake. And then at some point, I talk about being in the learning disabled room. And I feel like I saw a whole new version of you come online. And you and I just really got into what it was like to get called out of the classroom and go down to that room.

1:09:25My favorite movie, as I saw as a kid, because I thought that was me, was One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Oh, sure, sure, sure. Did you love that movie? Yeah, loved. I was funny. I got along with people. Kids really followed me. I wasn't going in the most popular crowd, although I got along really well with them too, but I'm going to play Dungeons and Dragons. I'm going to wrestle, and I got along with people. But when I went to that class, I had a, well, they labeled this stuff. It's a longer conversation. I'm not in agreeance with the journey that the government and everyone's taken with how we handle it, because I think everyone just learns differently, and no one's going to line up right next to each other.

1:10:00you could probably label indistinct how we learn so differently. I had an interesting journey later in life with that. But as it pertained to my childhood experience, when you're younger, they want to have you tested. So you go to a psychiatrist when you're five. And I remember thinking, they're going to take me from my family. That's what I think is at stake. I'm like, oh, I get it. If I get these questions wrong, you're going to juvie. I don't know where I'm going, but maybe I was in first grade. So I was six at the oldest. But I remember thinking like, this is really some high stakes because if I don't know the answers or I mess this up, I'm going away.

1:10:32Like I'm leaving my parents behind. And my parents never explained it. They said, everything's fine. The school wants to run some tests for how you act in class. I'm like, all right. So I remember, maybe this pertains to what we're talking about. So I'm a fucking six-year-old answering questions as if it was the law, as if I wrote the book on it. Where does paper come from? And my point of view would be, well, we all know trees. The trees is where paper comes from and that's what they do with that. So I wasn't just answering it. I was answering it like I was fooling them that that was the right answer.

1:11:02And they go, is that it? I go, and the machines. Then they do the machines. And the guy had polio who was interviewing me. His hand was like this. Well, when I was four, I put my hand at an electric can opener. I was watching my mom. I put my finger in it. I pull it down, and it's just blood everywhere. And so I have a split in my nail on my right hand that I still have, which is just dead skin. It didn't grow back, right? Hold on a second. Are you guys doing a matchy? Do you see how that's splitting right there? Yeah. That varies in how split it goes down. See, mine's a beautiful, like, Yeah, yours is hardcore.

1:11:38Yeah, mine's hardcore, right? So when you're young, kids will go, Now that's going to be a problem with me because that's not happening today, right? So anyway, that was a gift for me as my life went on. At the time, I hated it, but it really gave me a lot of empathy for that feeling of being attacked or persecuted for having something different that's not a choice. Physical, yeah. So I remember connecting with this guy where I'm staring at his hand and I go to him, don't feel bad about your hand. I have this too. And I reached out. That's so sweet. And I showed him my finger and he looked at me.

1:12:14And you were six? I was like six because they were driving me from the suburbs, Buffalo Grove, to the city to see this guy. And at the time they were just saying like, is he hyperactive? I guess I was borderline hyperactive for whatever that meant for a six-year-old in class who was fucking living on sugar. Pop tarts. Pop dogs, frosted franks for breakfast. I guess I had a hard time resisting a joke and sitting still. But anyway. Were you also way too big? No, I was kind of tall, younger, and then I evened out, and then I got bigger. But I just remember at that point, that was what launched it, where at first they said maybe he would be good to take a Ritalin.

1:12:47My parents, thankfully, I think I did one, and I didn't react well. But my dad, and I think my mom said it too, they're like, my kid's not going through life doped up, which is a great thing because you have to learn how to process stuff. And so the answer became I would go to a class, but not like these other kids. I didn't live in the class. I was in general pop. Right, right, right. Regular school. Yeah. But I would get one period a week to go. I had a speech therapist, and then I'd have to go to this class. So when I go to this class, I figured it out. It was really good for me because as I got older, then I would be like in fourth grade, and there's a bunch of kids playing Candyland.

1:13:22Like, what the fuck is everyone playing Candyland for? Like, that's a game you play at five. Team's a joke. And I first was kind of harsh on these kids because I was distancing myself. I'm like, I'm not one of these fucking kids. But there was a girl that was super tall. She didn't talk. But it reminded me of like Chief. Yes. And Cuckoo's ass. I figured out as a kid, I was like, well, no wonder she's not talking. She stands out so much. Yes. She's so tall. She's got bad posture that she just didn't want to stick out anymore. There was nothing wrong with her. She just wasn't comfortable. And then there was the kid who was more rural than all of us.

1:13:57But his family was like agriculture. So he had flannels and work boots and shit. So I started to figure out a lot of these kids could have been emotional or just social cues weren't there. But they were great kids. If you had a friendship with those kids, like it meant something. So I became super protective. And I started including them like in recess games. And I was so confident. And so, okay, getting in a fight or verbally getting in stuff. I was like, no, fucking Megan's playing kickball. She's on my team. Here we go. And so I started to have that. So it was a gift because I knew that feeling.

1:14:29The difference was if you have some level of confidence or self-belief, despite the obvious information, you really can go super far and really accomplish a lot because you have to be really resilient and work really hard. But the poor kids that don't have support from a parent or don't have any belief can get absolutely devastated. Oh, ruined. I would imagine through different interviews and even the notion that you had loved the Stephen King book you loved as a kid. Rage. Yeah. I saw kids get literally destroyed. There's no going past what happened to them in junior high and high school. Through bullying and the horror that could be.

1:15:11I just saw kids get fucking ground up and destroyed and had so much sympathy for them. It broke my heart. It was all around. We also had someone who spoke faith over us where some of these kids, like, they'll go to the parents and say, well, I think we all know Larry has a hard time focusing. If they're wearing a name tag that says expert and you're dealing with parents, especially back then where there's not a lot of information. Yeah, and they're scared. Then they're going to go along with these recommendations. I still see it today where there's parents who go along with recommendations that are terrible recommendations just because they're the popular idea of the time.

1:15:46And that kid then is sort of believed to have not skills, but it's always that way. That could be athletics. That could be music. Usually what you find is the person that has some sort of obstacle that's going to, for whatever reason, be resilient and come up with a psychotic program is the one that kind of can break through and have better mastery and self-awareness because you have to earn that, I think, by overcoming that. Sometimes when it's real easy, they're not forced to do that. And so when that finally happens in life, they don't necessarily have those resources because they just haven't been in that position.

1:16:20That's a tremendous amount of empathy for a six-year-old. Most kids looked around and they were like, yikes, that's bad, but I have to protect myself. At that age, we're all just trying to survive elementary school and middle school, trying to get through it. And so to bring people in is very rare. I was raised with that. My mom would be like, hey, someone's new in school. It would be pretty neat if you brought him to the lunch table. It was just in the water in my house that way. I just was part of who I was. But I also think you hit it on the head earlier, which is you were giving people what you wanted.

1:16:54Was there an inciting incident other than that experience, which is profound? I kind of belong there. I couldn't read. I didn't learn to read till fifth grade, right? I have dyslexia. And those hieroglyphics, it's really nuts what that looks like to me. I got over it. It's fine. And I agree. I'm glad I had the whole journey. and then figuring out I was good at some things was like, what a gust of wind in the sails. Oh my God, I'm good at math. Oh my God, I'm not fucking stupid. I thought I wasn't stupid. When I'm talking to dudes on the playground, I'm verbally advanced. Why is it I'm so stupid here?

1:17:23That's a terrible feeling. Yet I'm on the playground. I'm so confused. Did you feel stupid or you knew you were bright? Well, I felt like as soon as you sat in that desk and they started writing on the chalkboard, I'm like, I'm out to sea and it's compounding daily. And now we're another step down the path. And at some point I threw in the towel. I'm like, yeah, I'm not going to get this. I just have to act like I'm paying attention. That's similar to how I was answering those questions. Yes. You took on a survival mode. You were acting like you were overly on top of what the teacher wanted. Isn't that crazy?

1:17:53And then at the same time, you really needed to say, I'm confused here. Yeah, and then Dax, and there was someone holding a slip, and then I'd leave the classroom, and then I'd go to that room with everyone. Did you ever have the experience where you knew there was a progress report coming home? You could hear the moment when a parent received it. You could hear their reaction of how angry they were that there was a progress report. Do you remember the sound of your parents' feet when they came in from work walking and you knew there was an issue that was about to be addressed? I got blessed in that my mom, luckily for me, thought I was a genius.

1:18:24She's like, yeah, I don't know what to say about this report card, but I know this kid's a genius, so she didn't sweat me. We were fortunate to have belief in us. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And the kids that didn't started to believe the worst of themselves. Yeah, and they get destroyed. From 696 with Heidi Klum.

1:18:47Okay, you've talked too much about it, but I just have a specific question about it. And that is Halloween. So do you already know this about Heidi, that she goes so hard for Halloween? Probably harder than anyone in the world. What rock have you been on? I know, it's so embarrassing. God. We can still hang out, right? It'll be part of the fun of the reality show. No, not before you have a little look at me when I was a rainworm, okay? A rainworm? Yes. Listen. Please look at my rainworm. Okay. Look at me when I was 95 years old. That's also one of my favorites. I turned 40 and people were like, wow, so you were like 40, really old now.

1:19:21You should stop modeling. And then I was like, dang, I guess they're right. And then that got me thinking about, I'm going to make myself really old. And that was amazing. It took like 13, 14 hours to make me that old because every part of my skin that was exposed, they had to age. I hate to say this. There will be some listeners that, like Monica, haven't seen the Halloween costumes. I learned of it today. Monica, whatever you're imagining, you have to times it by 10. So she went as whatever she called it, a rainworm. It looks like a fucking intestine No, a rainworm No, it looked like a rainworm A rainworm, okay Like a real proper rainworm that you see when it's raining And they come out of the ground and they're out there Or like the lower GI That is also what a worm looks like She is in this like nine foot long I'm gonna look it up right now It looks like an intestine Her face is gone Her eyes are poking through My face was glued onto the walls of it my hands were tied down to the side of my body.

1:20:22When I would fall over, I couldn't get up. So I said to my husband, please, when I fall over and I'm landing on my face, don't leave me on my face because it's loud. People are like, Heidi, over here. Heidi, fall over here. Look over here. So when I'm like down, when I'm down, like I'm on my face. But by the way, they wouldn't even know if you were looking over there. She's gone in this costume, Monica. You can't see her. Do you see it? When I tell you that this costume is as complicated as the Jabba the Hutt costume in Star Wars, It's that level of prosthetic and insanity. Look at her face. Try to find her face.

1:20:54This is incredible. Now that we know what you're doing. So we know that the one costume is going is 95. And you looked like you're saying a rainworm. I think it happens to look like intestines. Do you think that looks like intestines? I do. Because I thought you were saying ringworm. That's like an intestinal disease. And it could be that too. Yeah. So. But it's a rainworm. That must be very sad. No, it's great. I thought it was very clearly a rainworm. No one says rainworm. What is it? You're talking about the worm that's just in the grass. But there's so many different worms. There certainly are.

1:21:25No, there are worms that come out when it rains. Yes. I think in America, we don't have them. They come out of the grass and soil. No, normal worms. Yeah, normal worms, they come up. And if we want to talk about a different worm. It's not a maggot. Right, but we would say maggot. No, a maggot is not coming out of the ground. A maggot is in food. I know that. In trash cans. What I'm telling you is no one would call a maggot a worm. You don't need to differentiate. Right, and you don't say maggot worm. Ah, okay. That's what I'm trying to do. Oh my God, the light bulb. Did you see it? Yes. It went on.

1:21:51It took me a minute. Here it's just warm. That's standard, what you were. But I kind of like that you can call it a rainworm if you want. It's very cute that you're doing it. I thought you always had to specify it. Like with pasta, with weenie. This old version of you is crazy. Now that we've been brought up to speed about these Halloween costumes, my question is many, many women on Halloween like to... Dress as a nurse. Well, they like to express a sexiness that they don't otherwise get to do in real life. And I think it's very telling that you went as a forgive me, an intestine and a 95 year old woman.

1:22:27And my question is, do you think it's because you've had your fill of being sexy and that now it's like, let's go be a rainworm? For me, it's more creative. I'm a creative person. So I also don't want to do costumes that I have seen. So I tried to really think outside of the box. You did. You're doing great. Last year, I was like, okay, this worm, I know it was so epic that I was like, how am I going to top this worm? So then I thought I have to do something with multiple people. I became a peacock where I'm just the face in the front body of the peacock. And I have like 10 people who were the eyes of the feather in the rest of the body.

1:23:07And I'm climbing on this. And we did this whole beautiful dance until I then become this peacock to just give people something else again, where they're like, oh, my God, that's cool. Or I want people to have an emotion when they see that. And I love also when girls want to be a sexy nurse and they feel like they can't do this in their normal life. And then that gives them the freedom, the OK to try something that they normally don't feel comfortable in. I feel like I'm kind of always doing the sexy nurse without being the nurse. If I go to a party or walking down the catwalk somewhere. Kristen does the same thing.

1:23:41Kristen's so celebrated for being beautiful that she does things that are so gross that only she would really be comfortable doing. Like she'll wear a bald cap and she looks insane. Or she has a bathing suit that looks like a man's hairy chest. And it's so gross. It is. Yeah, I like that. But she's also said that about her wedding. Because they got married at the courthouse and she wore just like a cute outfit. And people ask like, oh, you didn't want to get dressed up? And she was like, I get to do that a lot for my job. So this got to be a different thing. Yeah, but it's more like art for me.

1:24:12I feel like I'm like a life sculpture. One year, for example, I wanted people to see what it entails. I know I always do like little videos and that I put up there. But one year I was putting myself in a window in Manhattan. And I started at like eight o 'clock in the morning. And I had all the artists around me gluing all the stuff on. and I'm sitting right by the window and people could walk by this window all day long. It's like performance on it. All day, they could come by and they could see what happens. Like five, six hours later, I was still sitting there. They were gluing stuff on me because I wanted people to see how this all happens.

1:24:46It's like a sculpture at the end. Then they just rip it all off. It's just for one night and then it's gone. Well, what I like is this reinforces the point you made a few minutes ago, which is like you just pursue stuff because you pursue them. Sometimes they generate money, sometimes they don't. This is obviously a humongous expense for you to do this. And you're not going to get any money back from doing that. I never have. But you get joy out of it. I do. And you always have something to talk about on talk show in a pinch. All you got to do is flash that fucking picture and you got like six minutes right there.

1:25:12But I never knew in the beginning how it would grow into that. Over 20 years now, I've been doing this, maybe 23 years. When do you start planning? Now. Good question. And do you go to a specific party every year? I make it every year. Oh, it's your party. It's my party. Oh, fun. And she has Questlove. Quest Love is there every year. I love Quest. Amazing. This is so fun. It is. But when I first came to New York, I didn't feel like there was a party where people are dressing up. You would go to a party and they put a little red clown nose on their nose. And then it's like, oh, I'm a clown. And I'm like, no, you're not.

1:25:46It just was like so boring. You know, I was always like, where is the magic? Why is no one giving it some? So then I was like, I'm going to take that over. I'm going to do this. And as the host, I thought I have to really show people how far you can push your imagination. And I feel like literally every year, people who are coming, their costumes also are getting better and better. People are also planning months in advance already. You're inspiring. People are DMing me and they're like, oh, my God, I'm coming to the party. And I'm already like, you just wait when you see what I'm doing. I can't imagine this party.

1:26:18No one can move. No one's arms works. People are falling down staircases. No, my husband. Just a shit show. My husband was a gigantic egg because... This is like a Black Mirror episode in a way. No, my husband was like, what am I going to be if you're a peacock? And I was like, well, we're literally sitting at the dinner table and I have this chandelier that has all these eggs hanging off of it. They're real eggs all from Easter. Like we always blow eggs out, you know, you poke holes in either side and you blow all the stuff through and then you paint them and then we put them on strings. And so we have like 50 eggs probably on this thing.

1:26:50And I'm looking at these eggs. I'm like, I think it should be an egg. You should be the peacock's egg. And I know that a peacock is a male and shouldn't have eggs, but that's fine. We can break the rules. No one there is going to be an ornithologist and call you out on this. So he ran around like a gigantic egg.