Charlie Puth

23:50And to think that that person gets to have that experience a la carte, like only when it serves them, you have to recognize they're operating at a little bit outside of the thing, which allows them to tap into something we wouldn't have thought of. That's what it's about. And I think you've seen a lot of musicians over the years treat the angst that comes with that with booze and drugs. Like most of our great geniuses, they're medicating. So it's a lot to ask someone to be a visionary and then for the rest of the day, just be normal. It's not how it works. Wow. I feel like a lot of artists would appreciate you saying that too, because you get all this success.

24:24No one really wants to hear about your problems, but imagine hearing everything at 200 % volume. That's what I hear every single day. I get really startled. Like my poor wife, She came in and I was working on something. I was working on it really, really loud. And she said, Charlie, Charlie, Charlie. And I turned around. She really startled me. And I just was really silent. She was like, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to startle you. And I just started crying. I don't know why. Yeah, you're sensitive, dude. But like, I get down on myself because I'm about to have a kid and I don't want to freak the kid out.

24:54No, your kid will probably be sensitive. And if you're someone who embraces it and is not ashamed of it and can be an example that you can totally be a sensitive person and live in this world. It's a beautiful thing. Do not correct the thing. Right. Let the kids see it's okay to be exactly how you are. Okay, you almost took a tree out. Into that tree. I'm sensitive too. Into your eucalyptus tree over here. Prince is like freaky all the time. Of course he is. And he's on opiates. Yeah, of course he is. You're not getting that whole volume of work. I think I maybe in the beginning of tour dabbled in like having a drink after a show.

25:28But thank God I never got into any of that because my brain already feels like it's on drugs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Without anything. It's a lot to be on stage. It's kind of depressing sometimes having just got off stage where 50 ,000 people are cheering you on. And then you just maybe have like two days off and you're jet lagged. You might be in a different country, different state. And you're searching for that dopamine hit. It's literally chemical, though. It's not even like, oh, it's like an emotional. It's chemical. The adrenaline is high and then it wipes out very quickly. Your body's trying to figure out a way to get some homeostasis.

26:04It's like, I'll drink a little bit to get back up to even. Even a few weeks ago, post-Golden Globes, we had like a decompress. It's like, OK, that was a lot of attention. And that's a very heightened arousal setting. And now what? Maybe that's why people stay kind of central in L.A., where it's always something to get a hit from. Yeah. Oh, boy, that's dark. OK, so back to school. Well, now I'm imagining you're living two different worlds. Anytime you're pursuing music, you're probably loved and appreciated. And then the transition to school, no one gives a fuck at school that you have this gift, right?

26:41There were a lot of teachers that didn't like me. There were people who were supportive. There was one band teacher named Clem DeRosa. I believe he's passed on 10 years ago. and he used to work with Nelson Riddle and Count Basie and lead the big band and my mom and my dad were always my biggest supporters they were like you need to do this audition and play all the things you are you are the known as a string time those chord changes like all nice and how David Foster plays the piano how Bill Evans plays the piano he used to do this for this guy in New Jersey on a Tuesday afternoon and I got into the jazz camp and it was like my biggest accomplishment ever.

27:20So he was very supportive. I met a couple of teachers who weren't so supportive. But I'm imagining your peers there, they like your talent because they're other musical kids. But then you're going to a New Jersey elementary school and junior high. And I can't imagine there. Right. That's what I'm saying. Like, are you plopping back and forth into a place you're appreciated and then a place where you're suffering? I'm plopping back and forth. I never suffered. Just no one really understood me in high school. I heard you were a bit bullied, A teensy bit. Never shoved in lockers or anything like that.

27:51Just a lot of emotional distress that I might still carry with me. The needing to please people constantly and having a fury of talking too much. That might have started in high school. But I also enjoyed high school. It wasn't the worst thing in the world for me. I just preferred being in the music world. Yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

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29:30OK, so you're also incredibly ambitious. So there's a lot of different things going on because you make your own Christmas tape at 11 years old and you go door to door and sell it. In Microsoft Word 97, print out all the little CD labels and go door to door. But I just always wanted to make an album. I was always obsessed with making an album, seeing the Celebrity NSYNC CD, seeing the Millennium Backstreet Boys CD. I wanted to make an album, not for myself, but for other artists. And at 17, this is also kind of ambitious. So at 17, you start a YouTube channel. Charlie's Vlogs. This was the day and age of Tumblr and vlogging.

30:09That was a whole era. That was a whole era. And going to VidCon, meeting up with creators who I still am in contact with today. I fell in love with the internet. And I noticed in the early days of YouTube, there was a lack of musicianship. It was all sketch comedy, Smosh. And those guys are still around today too, killing it. But there was a lack of musicians. So I thought, why not make some homemade music videos? It sounds stupid because everybody does that now on TikTok, but nobody was doing it back then. Yeah. But the ambition part is you're not only doing your own vlog with your own comedy sketches in your own, you're doing a lot of acoustic covers.

30:43Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then you start creating jingles and music for other people's YouTube shows, right? Most of the time not because I wanted a pair of Ray-Bans and I didn't want to ask my parents for money. Sometimes if the YouTube channel had a lot of subscribers, when subscribers meant something, I would just ask for them to shout me out on their channel and then I would get subscribers. So I was writing a lot of music for a lot of random people at the time. Yeah. And then you get into Berklee School of Music. And if everyone else is as dumb as me, that is not Berklee out here. That's Berklee in Boston.

31:18No, you'd be surprised. A lot of people get confused. I thought, oh, he went to Berklee. And I was like, why is it spelled with two E's and not a Y? And then I realized, oh, it's... Very prestigious music school. Boston Music School. Yeah, it's a music school in the Back Bay in Boston, Massachusetts. I had so much fun there. Did you feel seen there? I did. Like you found your crew? I found my crew. What's funny is I always kind of danced around the classes. I'm sure they would hate to hear that, but I wasn't learning how to rap cables. I have a music production and engineering degree, which is great, but I never went to the beginnings of that class.

31:50A good example is I knew I didn't have to book studio time at three o 'clock in the morning to record a drummer, I could just go on YouTube and with this program called iZotope, isolate the drums out of this one song, put them on the grid in Pro Tools, and then take someone else's assignment and layer it on top of it. And now it sounds like I went to the studio at three o 'clock in the morning, but I don't have bags under my eyes. Wow. What cover gets Ellen's attention? September of 2011, that was the Someone Like You, the Adele song, the cover of that. And it's so funny. I ran into the producer a couple hours ago who actually called me and said that I was going on that program at the time.

32:36Not Andy. No, not Andy. Her name's Ellen Rocamora. Oh, yeah. She's so sweet. She is the sweetest. She called me at 19 years old and was like, we want to fly you out on JetBlue. Oh. I was like, woo, I still love JetBlue. to Los Angeles and I stayed at the Sheridan Universal. Sure. Off Lancashire, I think. Classic. And I was like, wow, I've never been in such a nice hotel. September, it was getting cold in New England, but it was warm here. It's our hottest month. I couldn't believe it. And I remember Jimmy Iovine, Larry Jackson, Ellen. This is again, 2011, officially a long time ago saying, would you like to be signed to a record contract?

33:20To 11-11. Yeah. Did you know that was the name of it? God, you know everything. Well, she loves 11-11. So does my wife. She loves 11-11. It's the number. Jen Aniston, too. She's got a tattooed on her. Jen Aniston also likes it. It's a good club to be in, the 11-11 club. We're missing the train, I think. We got to get on the 11-11. I got dropped from 11-11. Oh, no. Whoops. And then Emily. Luther. Luther. She was singing it with you, right? Yeah, yeah. She was a student at the time at Berkeley. She sang the song with me. She's from Rhode Island. I haven't thought about that in a long time. Yeah.

33:52And so you get signed based on having come on the show and sang with Emily. Yeah. As like a duet. I was like, okay, cool. But this is the part of my life where I was still lying to myself. Like I didn't want to be an artist. I was like, I'll just be the producer and she'll be the artist. So then in 2012, I went to Malibu and made a not so great sounding album that I don't think anyone will hear. and she would sing it and sounded good. But I remember the producer was like, why don't you stay an extra week and work on the tracks with me? And I was like, oh my God, I was salivating because it was beautiful and Ramirez Canyon and it was wonderful.

34:27It made me fall in love with California. You had all the toys at your disposal. I've never been in such a nice studio. It overlooked the ocean, went to Nobu Malibu. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. To Buie Sushi. Is that still a thing anymore? I don't know about Buie Sushi, but yeah, Nobu Malibu. That's still a thing. That's the first hits free kind of drug. Absolutely. My mind was blown. So that didn't end up happening. I went back to college and ended up graduating. Were you crestfallen with the result of that? I was not devastated because I was so excited to experience junior year of college. Oh, okay.

35:02And I was kind of like a cocky little shit. I was like, I'm on TV. Yeah. I was feeling myself a little bit. Did it convert to anything on campus where like girls more interested in you? I think so. Yeah, sure. It works. It normally does work. Yeah, it's pretty effective. Every classic, you know, male singer, everything ever. Everyone's like, wow, Charlie has 100 ,000 YouTube subscribers. I kind of had for a brief amount of time, a very inflated ego, I would say, because I didn't have that in high school. I was always odd man out a little bit, the man on the side. And I was stoked. I sold a show.

35:36200 people showed up, like real fans and all from Massachusetts showed up at this little cafe. And I was like, wow, I just sold out a show. It was a good time. If you deny yourself that, what's the fucking point? I mean, you should go through all the, you got to feel it. Post getting booted from 1111, you had a bit of doldrums between the Ellen excitement, the selling out the show, graduating, and then Pitbull, because that's 2015. You know, the thing about going to a music college, a lot of people's clots with it are that you get your degree and then it's kind of like, now what? I don't really believe you necessarily need a piece of paper to say that you're a musician.

36:12You didn't just come to Nashville or here. But I had my piece of paper and I moved back home and I was like, okay, I should just do what I was doing before when I got dropped from the Interscope label. I will just go to every publisher on Broadway in New York City and I will pitch my music. And I waited outside of record labels doors. Even the record label that I'm signed to now, Atlantic Records, I would wait out maybe five hours. I would meet people at this random studio in Brooklyn. I would just go anywhere where I could make music and then go back to my parents' house at like midnight, take that Bowdoin I was talking about before.

36:52Have a couple of vodcastoles. Yes, absolutely. A couple of whiskey sours. And just get back to editing and just hope that someone would cut my song, meaning sing my song. and one day I got an email from an artist and repertoire director on Cahuanga Boulevard and they invited me out to that studio and I just wrote See You Again it's kind of an anticlimactic end to that story well no pitbull's in there he wasn't physically there right right that happened like a couple days after oh after now the funny thing about that song if I'm remembering it was called Celebrate yes it is I only wrote one line I wrote tonight we're making history because history didn't rhyme with celebrate.

37:34I was like, oh, just say like history. Now it rhymes with celebrate. That was my contribution to the song. Okay. So maybe, okay. Damn. I haven't heard people bring that one up in a long time. I would go down memory lane. Not to be confused with celebrate. Yeah. It would feel so fine if we took a holiday. That's such an amazing song. What if she had said incorporated history into celebrate? History. That was my genius, you speak of, level of songwriting there. But I'd say my biggest first contribution to someone's career artistically was for an artist named Trey Songz. It was called Slow Motion, and it was made for the club.

38:12I had just written See You Again, which is a piano ballad. Yeah. And then Slow Motion. I had just gotten out of the studio with DJ Mustard. He was going on his run. I had gotten this snap from him, and I put this club record together. My discography is all over the place. Yeah, that's so cool. So when you did See You Again, again, your aim at that point was to be a songwriter and a producer. So how do you end up? You had sang a demo, I guess, for that. I sung the demo. And what was described to me is that nobody could capture the original feeling of the demo. I believe the person who came closest to it was Chris Brown.

38:48I remember hearing that and really liking it. But at the end, I swear, I think it was Vin Diesel's call that he wanted me on the song. Such a weird story. Yes. I think he vouched for me. I don't know if that's 100%. Is he from New Jersey? I don't think he is. It feels like he's from New Jersey. I think his manager is from New Jersey. I'm just like going into the corners of my brain of useless information. That's how I ended up on the song. And it was so last minute. We were filming a music video a week before the movie was set to come out. And I wasn't even originally in the video. They had to do a second shoot day because that's the day the movie company was like, oh, he's in it now.

39:28He needs to be in the music video. Okay, so now that you're singing on it, do you quickly readjust your game plan? Yeah, I'm like, now I'm an artist. Great. Now that song is enormous, three Grammy nominations, a Golden Globe nomination, and now you're really off to the races. You're signed to Atlantic at this point. I'm signed to Atlantic at this point. Everybody wants to write with me. when they say overnight, I felt it overnight. It was actually kind of overwhelming. Well, that's what I'm so curious about is that's a lot to readjust to. And you're young. Yeah, I was 23. I suddenly had money to go get an apartment on 7950 West Sunset Boulevard, the corner of Sunset and Style.

40:10Have you ever been there? Oh, and Style. That feels serendipitous. That feels like a song, a lyric. I had a apartment with like carpet. It was wonderful. And I would just go to the studio every day. And I found myself at the Golden Globes the next year. It was all the things I would see on extra, extra. I was suddenly part of my mom would fill me in on everything as if I weren't there. Yeah. Moms like to do that. Yeah. Yeah. They do it for a while. And then luckily they tire of it and then they stop entirely. Well, do people even watch TV anymore? Yeah, exactly. What's next? After that year? You're starting to collaborate with like a ton A lot of people I'm sure you could have never imagined even seen at a cafe and yet now you're working with them.

40:52Who are you like? Oh, my God. I was excited just to get in with everybody, big or small. I remember Mike Will, producer, came and told me he wanted to work with me. I remember Fergie told me she wanted to work with me. I remember Shawn Mendes wanted to write a song with me. It's all over the place, but I had to realign my thinking. I had to be an artist now. And the thing that lacked in the very beginning of my career was consistency. I had a song called Marvin Gaye, which is a fine song. With Meghan Trainor. With Meghan Trainor. That was also big. And I had no album. And all of a sudden I had two big songs, See You Again and Marvin Gaye, both working on the other side of the spectrum with no album.

41:31So I had to scramble and get every A-list writer to help me craft this album. And my first album, for that reason, was kind of inconsistent and all over the place. And then in the ninth hour, I heard this little loop in my and it's weird to like to write a song you have to like not write a song you have the whole song in your head and you just like reverse engineer it so I had and suddenly just we don't we don't talk anymore I was like we don't talk anymore am I describing it right it sounded like the song was out already it was on the radio but it was playing in my head and you're trying to hear the lyrics.

42:13But I had to go to Japan the next day. So I'm making the song on the airplane and the trains. And I'd say like an hour before we had to turn the album and I turned that song in. How about that? All these other songs that they got all these other people to write for me didn't resonate. But the one that came from here resonated. Yes. And how were you at collaborating? That's such a specific. It used to be very bad. What things got in your way? Well, again, post Ellen junior year of college, I feel like I know everything. I don't need to collaborate with anybody. Just the frontal lobe, not developed young man mentality.

42:49Literally not. And I think I know everything. And I remember, you know, Cara Diaguardi? Yeah. She was a judge on American Idol for a while. She's a prolific songwriter. She actually taught at Berkeley. Now we're going back to 2013. And I remember showing her a song and she was like, this melody is great. These lyrics are ass. You need to get together with someone who knows how to write lyrics. I wrote this email. I'm like, how dare you? Someone who has so much more success than me still. I'm writing this scathing email. Like you have no idea. I'm going to show you. Well, and around this time, she famously said his songs are bigger than him in a nutshell.

43:29Like he has these enormous songs, but he himself's not big enough for these songs. I'm paraphrasing, but I did read that line. And that's fair, right? You're not, you gotta take some minutes to learn how to become a pop star. I feel like people are just starting to get to know me personally now, but I don't think I let them in. Again, I'm a people pleaser. It's coming up again. I really cared about the music first and maybe stemming from the high school stuff. I never thought that people would actually like care about me. It weren't interested in what I had to say unless it had a catchy little bop to it.

43:59But now I find that the tables have turned a little bit. people want to know me. Maybe that's where we are in society. I don't know. Yeah, I think so. I'm going to disappoint you now and I'm going to go to my notes. Okay. Wow. Good for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fuck, we missed the whole part about Perez Hilton and winning Can You Sing. That's interesting. Perez Hilton. Oh, Perez Hilton. No, I mean, that's kind of an anticlimactic thing. That's what got the attention. Can you believe that? 100 ,000 views and that's what went viral at the time. Wait, it was a video? It was a video that got 100 ,000 views and that's what went viral.

44:32Oh, right. That counted as viral. That counted as viral back then. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now it's like you're a failure if you got 100 ,000. I know. 100 ,000 people is still a lot of people. Yeah. Crazy. It's so true. Okay, so attention happens. I'm curious. Now we're to the part where we earmark because now you're having to grow into like pop stardom because attention is enormous. It's still, I was looking up stuff on Spotify and this is streaming very well. Oh, billions of astronomical amount of streams from that song. Song reached a lot of people. And you put out voice notes and then you go on tour.

45:09And I already know if we fast forward ahead, you said at one point, I don't like anything I put out in 2019 because I was trying to be kind of a cool guy. Yeah. Yeah. And if I can project, it's like things that were already impossible are happening. So you really start opening up your mind to the notion that maybe anything's possible. It's very easy to go off the rails because already things are happening that were way outside of what you were expecting. So why can't I be Justin Timberlake? Yeah, I mean, thus far, yeah, I've got the songs. So you're involved in cool things. I don't even know if I was trying to be another artist.

45:47I think it was the crew of people I was hanging around. Like, I am impervious to anything bad. Everything I touch is great. And therefore, that extends musically as well. But that kind of faded away in 2019. Maybe my frontal lobe started developing. It wasn't fully there yet. But I'm always exploring, and that was the wrong thing to explore. I should have explored something else musically rather than try to talk differently in interviews and make up stories. Yes. And how are you adapting to, I know you're getting attention from the proverbial cheerleaders. So pop stars like you and you're now with them and you have this panic of like, do they know I'm not really supposed to be here?

46:32Like, how are you security wise in these relationships at that period? I just think that's why those relationships never worked out, because deep down, the New Jersey boy getting advice from his mom and dad and wanting to make Christmas CDs was still at the nucleus of it all. Yeah, the kid from high school. It was affecting the epidermis, but it wasn't reaching down past the dermis. So I was showing up to every restaurant like Craig's, which is a very good restaurant, by the way. It is a good restaurant. Monica loves it. But going back to the relationship stuff, they never came into fruition because I couldn't get past a certain point.

47:08I think maybe I wasn't honest with a lot of people. I wasn't honest with myself. I think of Camilla Cabello. She's so talented. She's so wonderful. But as I'm talking to her, I'm realizing like, oh yeah, she's also a kid from Miami. And this persona is the most confident thing in the world. We all look at that and think like, oh, well, they've been popular their whole life. And they not. Sean's wasn't. I toured with Sean when he just got started. Although he did project into superstardom from an early age on. He made the transition. Yeah. It's not like what you trained for in high school, perhaps.

47:42No. What we experienced is like 0.1%. It's not normal to get off stage and then just be alone. It's not normal to be looking left and right and wondering who's going to be running at you. It's not a normal feeling. but the young immature part of me back then was kind of feeding into that because I just totally didn't believe that anyone was going to listen to my music as an artist just based on the music alone. I swear I'm not fishing for compliments in this green room. I just truly didn't believe that people were just going to buy my music because they liked it. There needed to be some sort of catch.

48:18I better say this stupid thing in this interview because that's what's going to make people, you know, holler and, oh, he put out a song. I guess I'll listen to it. Like, that's how my brain used to think. Well, how do you know? What the fuck? You know, how would you know that the height of all this massive success, what was happening emotionally? Very, very depressed. Doesn't matter how much success I had. It's almost like the more success that I had, the sadder I got. Were you feeling fraudulent? Yeah, I was. I stopped feeling fraudulent two years ago. It takes crazy. I would be at these Grammys, these Golden Globes, and I would be raising my voice and, you know, putting the game show voice on and then going back home alone and just being by myself and then being real with myself and just being so physically exhausted from lying.

49:04And what did you use to soothe? The occasional Xanax, which I had to completely get rid of and the attention of girls. Yeah, I'm sure. That's a nice staff. That wasn't making me happy either. More fraudulence. More fraudulence. And these were amazing girls too, who I had an amazing time with. And I just was lying to myself because I knew the person for me who was always there and seeing all of my antics play out in the world is my wife now. She's stuck by me and was there the entire time. Because she's a family friend. She grew up one town over from me. My history is like a country song. It's like small town, small town.

49:43Imagine her turning on the TV or going on Snapchat and seeing me participate in all this tomfoolery. And she still saw through it and saw the real me. I keep pointing here like it's like in my gut, but I guess it is in my gut. But one day I saw her with somebody and I knew they were serious. And I was like, oh my God, I'm officially going to lose her because of all my antics. Yes. Me being reckless. And I found myself because of Brooke, my wife. That's so sweet. Yeah, I was going to ask. So how do you claw your way out of this bizarre gilded cage you've put yourself in in this fancy apartment?

50:18It just happened one day. It's the worst answer ever. I think on my 30th birthday, I started to catch a glimpse of everyone at Delilah right now I met last month. Right. There's four family members here. What's going on? Yes, the birthday party. Yeah. And a bunch of Irish exits. Chicken fingers are good. but there's no warmth. Yeah. At the birthday party. You know, it's interesting. I went to a birthday party of someone I will not mention, but I did look around and I was like, yeah, man, this is a stunning guest list. I even remember when we were invited, Chris, and I was like, it's kind of weird to be at this person's birthday party.

50:53We don't know them that well, but we're going to go. It's like also a professional relationship. And then when I went, it was just like, yeah, everyone was a star. And I thought, not one of these people is a friend. No one has time in this room to be friends' friends. But those parties are fun. Sure. I'm not going to lie and say that I've never had fun. But I was depressed for the person's birthday. Absolutely. And at 30 years old, it was at the Peppermint Club, not Delilah, but been there too. I lived in Truesdale. You did it all. Did it all. Yeah. And I look around and I'm like, no one cares about me here.

51:24And the person who does care about me won't speak to me right now because she's finally had enough. Then was a year of I'm not going near any of that. I can't do it. Everyone's amazing. I've met some amazing people, but this no longer works for me. If I want to graduate to this next important level in my life. And I think my music was suffering too. Yeah. It didn't sound as good. Well, nothing was coming from really truth. You would have had to figure out how to write a song that relayed fraudulence. Yeah. Which is not what I'm sure you thought was going to hit the top 40. It never works. Every song that's ever resonated with millions and millions of people has come from here.

52:05And I wasn't fake, but everything around me was fake. And you are a product of your environment. So, of course, I wasn't making great songs. So how did you begin wooing her back to your side? When I said that I was going to show up to her apartment in New York, I actually got on that JetBlue, second JetBlue mention today. Love JetBlue. Love JetBlue. I said I was going to New York. You know how people around here were like, oh, yeah, let's get together next week. I could be down for that. I don't judge people for still saying that, but I took that out of my vocabulary. I made sure that I was punctual.

52:38And if I said I was going to do something, I was really going to do it. And I showed up with flowers and we went on a date. We had never been on a date before. We've known each other for our entire life. We went to this restaurant, Lillia in Brooklyn. That's supposed to be so good. So good. Consistently wonderful. I mean, all the food in Brooklyn is so good. shout out mark lucali i have to say quickly y 'all's generation like no one in my age group growing up knew about a restaurant i mean maybe this is also from like a blue color thing but i do think generationally well there's been articles about the avocado toast generation food hit a new level it's like a scene or it's art well the healthy thing is your generation seems to recognize that joy comes from experiences and not possessions, which for the older people are like, they're so reckless with their money, but it's like, great, because you've got a snowblower you bought.

53:29That's true. So I do think it's healthy. Yeah. But it's so foreign to me. Like no one my age knows 12 great restaurants. But I do think your average is your baseline interest in a great restaurant has just really gone up. That's true. Well, that's very nice to give a compliment our generation. Thank you for the compliment. You all do a lot of great shit. You drink less. you save money better. Well, some people do. Well, not you. You're a black mark on your generation. Okay. You took her to the restaurant. Took her to the restaurant. And then I was just consistent. And then a week later, she said she was having a birthday party for her brother.

54:05And I'm here living in Beverly Hills. I'm like, I'll take a night flight. She was like, no, you won't. I'm like, yeah, I will. And I did just to prove to myself that I could actually commit, it took like a year. Was it hard to resist wowing her? Like if I was in your situation, I'm trying to win over my hometown girl. I would have been really tempted to like, oh, your birthday. Yeah, I'll be there. And then I would have planned something like way too spectacular. We're going to Paris. You know, like I would have brought in an elephant or some shit. The last thing she wanted. It would have been tempting to go like, let me show you what life I can provide us.

54:35That's what I did with all the other relationships. And that's why they didn't work out because that's not who I am. Where I thrive is showing that I'm a normal person. And that's how she always knew me. I was presenting this extravagant, larger than life. I'm going to Paris in five hours. Get on this plane with me. And it's just us on the plane. It sounds made up and it really didn't do anything. Yeah, I know someone was telling me a story about their first date with their future husband was flying on the Concorde to Paris as a first date. And I was like, I mean, I don't know. Where do you go from there?

55:07How can you possibly evaluate? I could fucking hang with anybody on a Concorde flight to Paris. I mean, I can't evaluate whether they're. height in that. I guess. Yeah. Boy, you're moving. That's what they would say about the bachelor and the bachelorette. No wonder those can't work. All their dates are that heightened. That's not normal light. That's kind of why I like to work in LA. I'll always love LA. LA changed my life, but that's why my wife and I live in Santa Barbara now because we wake up, we go for walks. But you're not seeing billboards of all your peers doing all the streetlights. Yeah.

55:40It's just normalcy. That's It's quite nice. And then if we need to go to X, Y, and Z, we just drive the sometimes three hours to get here. Sometimes 80 minutes. Sometimes 80 minutes. It can be like, I don't even, this isn't bad at all. Okay, so then 2021, you co-write and produce Stay with Bieber. How does that come about? Originally, originally, it started out with Kid Leroy, my friend Blake Slacken, and Omar Fetty, two very talented songwriters. And the song kind of sat for a year because classic thing, no one believed it was a hit. And then Leroy had Bieber do a verse on it and it lit the whole song up.

56:20Tell me about Bieber as someone who knows music. I am just on the outside and I don't technically know what's happening, but I know something very magical is happening. Yeah, he's one of my favorite artists. He's incredible. I can't tell if he gets annoyed when I say that my favorite Christmas album is his Christmas album. but journals, purpose, because it's such an adjacent timeline to me experiencing everything for the first time. The Purpose album, getting my first car in Thousand Oaks and listening to it, it means so much to me. I just think his voice is so wonderful. He's got a Michael Jackson quality.

56:52Yeah, he has a deep appreciation for R &B and always has in his melody writing, in his songwriting, he can always hear it. I think it's one of the best voices in pop. So as a producer, clearly you're in that session where he's working on it. I wasn't present when he was recording his vocals. They were sent back to us, but it was a perfect vocal. We're learning this. We just talked to Anderson.Paak, who's like my number one. So talented. I just fucking worship that dude. Yeah, he's amazing. And to find out how much of his music, like his song with Mac Miller, dang, they didn't meet him in person until they made the music video.

57:26And they already had a hit that they had written together. I didn't know that. And I'm like, that's such a modern day phenomenon. That couldn't have happened in the 70s or 80s. No, it couldn't have. I mean, they were mailing dat tapes to each other, even in the early 2000s. Yeah. I didn't know that. Anderson is so, he came into my studio at Conway one time accidentally, and he was so funny. Oh, yeah. It's like he walked into the wrong room. He just lights up every room. He does. You can't describe him and not use the adjective light. Yeah. One of my favorite songs I ever wrote was Stay. I love the little, I love that kick snare combination.

57:58It's fun. It's got a grit to it, too. It has distortion to it. distortion a heavily underused thing while producing music and pop to make the drums hit you layer in like a really crunchy kick snare combination so it sounds like that sounds messy but thin it out and then turn the volume down and place it on top of the super clean drums you have the imperfect drums and the perfect drums you have the garnish absolutely It's a garnish of grit. That's why vocals can't be all perfect pitch. I like that. He has the garnish of grit. I just stared at her like I wanted some validation for my wordsmithery.

58:37I know you're withholding. That's why we've been friends for so long. You know when to withhold. I'm here to be honest. I don't think garnish of grit is necessarily the best thing you've come up with. Well, it's mixed messages. Garnish and grit are like diametrically opposed. We'll circle back. I'll think about it for a little bit. We'll think about if you're going to keep that added or not. Yeah, exactly. Okay, I'd be remiss if we didn't talk about then the most recent chapter, which is interesting, which is, and of course you found your way there, but 2021, you start going hard on TikTok. I sure do.

59:04Was that a reclaiming of yourself? It was, it was to show people that I don't make music just because it's my job. It affects me so viscerally. And one small change made into a song, like if you rerecord one little vocal, it could change the trajectory of the entire song. And I always thought that my job here was to teach that because my mom was a teacher and maybe that's where I get it from. I was thinking to myself one day, why don't I show everybody what it's like to put some layers and songs? You start with the kick drum, start there. That's the foundation of your house. And then you add the base, which is like the other, again, I still don't know how to build a house, but like you put the wood on top of the foundation.

59:44The framing. There you go. Thank you. The framing. And then the windows and the nice paint, the nice lacquered paint is like sprinkles on top. That's the reverb that you put at the very end of the record. How do I teach that in a very entertaining way? And that video went viral, got a lot more than 100 ,000 views. Was it light switch? Yeah, kind of a silly song, but I always loved it when my teachers made the lesson entertaining. And I thought that was, in my opinion, an entertaining lesson where people kind of understood where their favorite songs come from. That's so cool. You were the young kid in your room and to find out it's as simple as the order.

1:00:19What I started with reverb. No, no, let's keep that for that is the glaze. Even the order of things could be so helpful and breakthrough-y for a kid who's trying to figure all this shit out in their bedroom. I think that's a very cool thing. I just want people to know that they can come to Los Angeles and be inspired. But if you really wanted to make a record, all you have to do is pull up your phone and open GarageBand. If you have a good idea, you don't have to book studio time. It's almost better if it sounds a little crummy because people will relate to it more because they have the same software on their phone.

1:00:51Interesting. Not to bring up, we don't talk anymore again, but that guitar was recorded on an iPhone. We recorded it in a studio and it sounded not great because it was too perfect, too clean. Everything needs to have a little distortion. Yeah. What's the Japanese word, Monica? Oh, not wabi-sabi. Not wabi-sabi. Not wabi-sabi. The other one. We always think it's wabi-sabi and it's not wabi-sabi. It's not imperfection, the art and beauty of imperfection. Yeah, because we are imperfect beings and we can maybe relate to art that is thus imperfect. Not to sound like a philosopher. No, it's true. It's why AI doesn't work on a lot of levels.

1:01:26It's too clean. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

1:01:41This is the time for all artists, filmmakers, music makers, anything that involves art. this is the most important time to be as human as possible because pretty soon if you want an answer to something i don't know if i'm right but i feel like you're just going to be able to ask yourself the question you're just going to know it right away yeah like a neural link setup yeah there's still going to be antiquated ways of making stuff but it's going to be appreciated people will appreciate human made it's going to be of high value because i think for a while there it wasn't. Well, it's very interesting at first.

1:02:15My own arc with it's like when I'm first seeing these crazy videos, they're awesome. I'm like, oh, my God, there's a raccoon driving a race car. It very quickly became just like white noise. Yeah, absolutely. It's not very interesting, even though it was exciting at first. Yeah. This is our opportunity to be as human as possible. The whole point of art and conversation is the human exchange. Yeah. So when you know it's not, you know it's all manufactured, I don't think us as humans can connect to it in the same way at all. Even if it's word for word the same, we know it's not genuine. It's about fumbling over words and maybe we speak at the same time.

1:02:53Oops, we'll edit that out. This album that I just finished, that's going to be my fourth album, is a direct response to all the perfect music that you hear nowadays. My sister was telling me she has two young kids, a boy and a girl, and they go to the cutest school ever and they were having a bubble party. They put a playlist together, an AI playlist of bubble music. I'm like, just play Popcorn by New Edition, play Britney Spears, put some effort into making a playlist. I mean, sure, fine, but it's lacking heart. We need to put the heart back into art. That's why I made this album. Can't spell heart without art.

1:03:35Really good. That's the worst headline out of all of us. We're almost to whatever's clever. In 2024, I'm servicing my friend Monica right now. I know what's coming. I know what I do. Go ahead. Taylor? Yeah. Okay, so she wrote the lyric, right? Yeah. The lyric on the tortured poet's department was, we declared Charlie Puth should be a bigger artist. That was very nice. Yeah, so tell me how you take that, because my brain is so good at turning everything terrible. I could turn that terrible. What are you saying? I should have been bigger. That is a huge compliment. I think it's a huge compliment.

1:04:12I did actually think that was AI at first, but then I listened to it. And I listened to it a couple times. Someone sent it to me right before it was supposed to come out. And I knew it was real because of her diction and the way that she sang it. Musically, it felt human enough for it to pass as human. And I thought to myself, what does that mean? Do I need to open up more in my music? I feel like I do need to open up because that's why She's Beloved and has 100 ,000 people coming to every show is because everybody can relate to her very human lyrics. Maybe I need to not worry so much about, oh, I hope this song is a hit versus really put focus on let's be real here and sing about things that I haven't sung about before.

1:04:55I have a song called I Used to Be Cringe, which I don't believe anybody's heard yet, but it's kind of like disarming. It's like a nice acoustic guitar, but with a nice vocal melody and a choir. And the lyric is, I used to be cringe. And it's like, why would you put that in a song? I kind of resisted it for a while, but then I kept hearing the Taylor lyric and thought I might need to. Oh, that's lovely. That was inspiration. Absolutely. Personally, I think she meant what I think most people are going to think if they know you very surface and they listen to this, they're going to think that same thing.

1:05:27Like, wait a minute, this is a musical genius. And we've categorized him as this like pop star. And that's not correct. And I think that is what she's saying here. How do you not resist calling her and going, well, clearly you like me. So let's party. Like, how do we not do something together? That would be my first selfish thought. I just wrote her a thank you note, like a handwritten thank you note, because I really did think it was such a nice thing. Took time to record that vocal. That was very, very nice. Yeah, whatever's clever. We're already touching on it. So I imagine you're now, as opposed to I'm a hit seeker, I am now going to attempt to self-examine and find these things that I actually care about and explore those.

1:06:09Yeah. And hits might come out from that. They might not. I don't know. We say in AA, we're in the show up and work business, not the results business. And I think that's a good model for everyone to live by, which is like, you do the thing you do and you just don't know the results. And that's that. I like that. So how does one start this mining process? I remember my collaborator blood pop came in and said we need to make you feel a little uncomfortable to make something beautiful He said have you ever written a song about your dad? And I got very defensively. You don't know my dad Like why would I ever write a song about my family?

1:06:39What are you getting at? And he was like your dad might want it one day I was like, what does that mean? And that was so weird and then I spent all week thinking about it and then my dad's mom lives to 94 years old and she had passed and I have this song suddenly for my dad And I was like, wow, now I have something to play him. It's called Cry. It features Kenny G. It's awesome. Oh, yes. Playing? Yeah. Playing the solo at about the two minute mark in the song. And lyrically, it's about just telling somebody, you don't have to be an emotional brick wall. You don't always have to be the hero. You can show emotion to me.

1:07:13Not that he doesn't know that, but it's nice to have a reminder, especially a musical reminder. But I wrote that before that incident even happened. So once Blood told me to write that, I was very open-minded. Yeah, I saw that Blood Pop is very, very involved in this. I'm totally ignorant on Blood Pop. Tell me about Blood Pop. Works a lot with Gaga. Also is a video game designer, very smart person. He's obviously very talented and has made countless hits and really important by his work for a lot of other artists. I'm always trying to musically explore, so I thought it'd be a good idea. Yeah, I would imagine from just this limited interaction of the last hour and a half, This is something that I have assigned to Phineas, whether it's real or not.

1:07:54It's like I watch that beautiful doc with he and his sister. And what I saw is a big brother who's so loving and can handle all of her little imperfections and keep picking her up and pushing her forward. And it's so beautiful. It blows my mind. And I'm so moved by him. And so, yeah, when I was asking, like, what's your collaborations experience at the beginning? It's like, I don't see you as having that skill set at that time. And I also could see that you would really benefit from someone that would be like, no, no, no, we're going to definitely get more emotional here. Yeah. Sometimes I need to be led into the right direction, which is probably why I'm a better artist than I am at an executive producer for another artist.

1:08:36I would always love to have a hand in another brilliant artist's work, but I don't know if I'm ever going to be the one that. Mines it out of them. Yeah, because I feel like I have such a long way to go. And I feel like I'm just starting my career in some way. Also, I don't know that you get that technical aptitude. You don't get the whole fucking pie, right? So it's like, you know, maybe Phineas can't hear the thing and memorize a thing like you and hear that's A flat and this and that. And then he has this other thing. So it's like we try all the time to be everything. It's a waste of everyone's time.

1:09:03It's fine to have strengths. And then, yeah, to collaborate and bring in people that can help with that. Like a thumbprint, no mind is alike. And I worked with Phineas one time and he brought all these string samples. I didn't even think about including string samples in a song that we could write. There's singers that will suggest a different melody, like Ryan Tedder out of One Republic, really talented producer. I'll sing him a melody and he'll suggest something else that most of the time ends up being better because I was so stuck on like one thing, but he suggested one little change. And I was really good at that as Max Martin.

1:09:37And Max Martin, really wonderful producer, just did the Taylor album. I always want suggestions. I will never know everything. Okay, last thing is you're singing the national anthem at the Super Bowl. Sure am. Oh, cool. Now, I got to say, we just interviewed Chris Stapleton. No one has a right to be more confident than Chris Stapleton. And he said for sure the most nerve-wracking experience of his professional career was singing the national anthem. Don't say that right now. I had no idea. No, that should be comforting if he's feeling fear. No, no, no, no. I'm so confident. I have the whole arrangement in my head.

1:10:08Oh, good. My local newspaper, the Star Ledger, told me that I am the second New Jersey native to sing the national anthem. The boss. The first being Whitney Houston. Oh, wow. Without giving too much away, I just musically know where I'm going with it. And you're excited. I'm excited. I picture an orchestra on the field. I picture a choir on the field and just a tiny little keyboard that I'm not going to hide behind, but like a Rhodes, like a really warm Rhodes sound like a Rhodes from the 1970s everything that's non-football related I'm having at the 20 yard line and I just can't wait I want to do it in D major and I have it all in my head and we can play this back after I do it and see if it was alright but I think it's going to be in D major there's going to be choirs there's going to be an orchestra and it's going to end like

1:11:02timpani

1:11:07All the string players are going to go. And that's how I imagine it. Fucking F-16s are. Can you imagine? I got goosebumps just thinking of it now because it feels like I already did it. It's a similar thing with writing a song. Again, to write a song, you have to reverse engineer. I feel like I already did the performance and now I'm going to just do it for real. And hopefully, I think I'm correct. I think that's what it's going to say. I'm so excited to watch it. Yeah, yeah. These things as arbitrary or as manufactured as they seem, no, they're like really special, cool things. I always get lost in the music.

1:11:39I opened up for Billy Joel once. I was like, what's it like on stage? They're playing for a stadium every night. He's like, I don't know what I'm doing. I get lost in the music. I didn't know what he meant at the time. And I now do the same thing. I get lost in the music. Isn't music so amazing? Yeah. I just love it so much. Now you're going to go out on tour in April with Whatever's Clever. Yeah. And you got a new baby coming. So is that that's stressful? It keeps me up at night. If I'm going to be completely honest, I have to go on tour right after the baby's born. But they will come. Is the baby going to travel?

1:12:11Oh, yeah, they'll come. Yes, because I'm going to tell you something. That feeling you have in the hotel will not be that. You will come off this energy thing and then you will look at your little submarine sandwich that's in the stupid little swaddle. Oh, my God. Stupid little swaddle. Oh, me, this is actually way better than that. I know. I always want to find a perfect balance for Baby. I never wanted to be the Charlie show constantly because now there's another version of me and he or she will grow up to be whoever they want to be. And I don't want to be selfish and have it always be about me.

1:12:48Our little kids, Kristen was doing movies all over and we just all went as a little fucking caravan and there's playgrounds everywhere. It's not until, and that is the time where you need to be on yourself. It's like, hey, once they have friends at a school, it's not cool to pull them out and fucking make them miss everything so they can be with you. That's the time. But you are five, six years out from that. I never even thought about that. I appreciate the advice. Yeah. Let it rip. They love going everywhere. The more you travel with them, the better travels they are. Kids can sleep on airplanes.

1:13:16They didn't cry. It's good for them. They get exposed to all kinds of things that they wouldn't be able to. There's smells and sounds and different colored people and different accents and different languages. That's important, the different colored people. Yes, for sure. As early as they can get it. Want to get the big headphones for the baby? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Sure. Well, Charlie, this was delightful. This was downright therapeutic. This was like super fun. That's what we like to hear. I do got to add whatever's clever comes out on Lincoln's birthday. Ding, ding, ding. March 27th. March 27th.

1:13:45Special day for me. Right before flu season ends. how do I know this I go to the OBGYN well thanks for coming this was a blast everyone check out whatever's clever watch you on the Super Bowl and go see you on tour thank you very much for having me you're welcome I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode but we'll find out when my mom Mrs. Monica comes in and tells us what was wrong how was your first walk to work it was my first walk I mean, you used to walk to work. First two-minute walk. First two-minute commute to work. How about that? Thank you. And I even got to bring my tea.

1:14:25Why not? And look at this mug. What was the price tag on it? I don't know, but it's good for today. It's gloomy out. Uh-huh. So this mug has a rainbow coming out, and the sun's popping out of the clouds. Uh-huh, peeking out. Underneath? Uh-huh, careful. I know. Careful. There's a cloud. There's rain. There's a lot. Don't lose your equilibrium. I know. What if just looking up that you fell over? I might. Okay. So this is great. I have my first question about your new house, which is, is the gloom the same? It's raining for folks who don't know in Los Angeles. Yes. And I open my French door and I can smell the rain and I meditate and I journal and I'm just looking out at all the wet trees and it's so beautiful.

1:15:15Yeah. You can now, too. Do you change anything? But my alarm was on. I've set my alarm off a few times by accidentally opening the window. Well, purposely opening the window, but forgetting that I have set the alarm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really loud. So anyone who wants to rob me, it's not going to work. It's not going to work out. Do you have it on an app, though? My alarm? Yeah, you should. Instead of you having to find a keypad and all that. Sure. To open your fucking window. Yeah. You just pull your phone out of your pocket. Okay. Well. Tap, tap, tap. Another hurdle is we know when you don't like this about me.

1:15:56This is one of the things you hate the most about me. One of the million things I hate about you. Yeah. 10 things I hate about you. Great movie. Great movie. Is I lose track of my phone a lot. Great point. Great point. Okay. A lot. Yeah. And that's in my, in my small apartment, I would lose track. Now, the house has proven to be trickier with where I leave my phone. You should get an iPad you keep by your bedside table that you can turn it off from. She'll figure out how to lose that, too. This is the kind of solution I'm always suggesting, Rob, is like you have designated places you set the thing down.

1:16:35I know, but. But you're not going to do that. And I've accepted that. I know. It's been years. You've had to accept it. I remember one of our first fights about that. You do? Yeah. Oh, how did it go? We were in your old house in the living room. Uh-huh. And I couldn't find my phone. Misplaced your phone. Yeah. And you suggested having spot, having designated spots. Your motto, designated spots. It'll be on my tombstone. Use designated spots. And Kristen was there, too. And she was like, well, not everyone. You know, she was really trying to bridge the gap. Defend you, probably. Defend me, yeah.

1:17:14Because she too needs to use a designated. It was really two against one. Yeah, but she, I think she uses designated spots more than me because she's been living with you for a long time. Yeah. There's no one has adopted designated spots except for me. Yeah. One time we found her phone. It was so wild. In like a box, we were returning something and it was in the box. Thank God we found it. That almost got returned? Yeah. Oh my Lord. Yeah. That's not a designated spot. What an interesting designated spot. No, it's antithetical to the point of a designated spot. If the designated spot's about to travel via the U.S.

1:17:52Postal Service. Yeah. I want you to have a tether, actually, like a 40-foot coily, just the thin thing, like that they put little kids on, leashes at the mall. Yeah. But even thinner. Okay. And that's anchored to your nightstand. And you can travel around your house and use your phone, and you're just dragging this everywhere. Oh, that sounds horrible. Yeah, that's another great solution. Just so you know, my house is way too cute for that, for a little string all over the place. Right, but maybe after two weeks of it and hating the eyesore of it, you'd be like, fuck, I'll do designated spots.

1:18:26Yeah, maybe. You're right. This episode was brought to you by designated spots. If I get a dog, then I'll train that dog to do it. Use a phone? No, get a second phone that goes around the dog's collar. Oh. Or maybe get an Apple Watch that goes on its collar. And the only app on it is find my phone. And you're like, no, my dog is going to be like really smart. My dog's name is Ross. Ross. Yeah. Cause Monica and Ross, I already named him. Okay. And I'm just going to have him smell the phone a lot. So he just knows where the phone is at all times. You'll reward him with treats every time he gets the phone, but he's going to bite the screen.

1:19:03But he has a soft touch. Okay. My dog does. Anywho, yes, I've been there for about a week, less than a week. Five days. Yeah, five days. Friday to Wednesday. Yeah. At first, Anna came over. She slept over the first two nights. And how did that go? That was fun. Was it so fun? Yeah, that was really fun. Did you just drink wine? Yeah, of course. Have you convinced her to get into hair play yet? No. She's not a hair play person. So you had the two sleepovers, and then she left, and then your first night on your own, were you scared her? do you feel great? I was a little scared, but not nearly as scared as I thought.

1:19:42And, um, what's it like to wake up and go downstairs and have like a breakfast or make your tea? It's so weird. So far it just feels like I'm in somebody else's like really nice house. Like I, it has not sunk in that all of these things are mine that I can poop on the floor if I want. Sure, there's no law against it. And I told you this. The first night I was by myself, I went to the bathroom in the middle of the night and, you know, I had to walk far to get there. And I was like, oh, wow. I feel pretty like confident and I know my value for the most part in the world-ish. I don't have a lot of imposter syndrome is what I'm trying to say.

1:20:32In your general life. In my general life. And when I was peeing, I was peeing in the night, I was just like, oh, how? I do not deserve this. I was very much like the other, something bad's going to happen. You're not allowed to have this. Yeah, why? This isn't for me. Like, I don't deserve it. Yeah. So, and that was weird. I never feel like that. Like I buy shit all the time. Nice stuff. I know. But I think the apartment weirdly now I can see in retrospect all these apartments that are are very reasonably priced. Modest. You've been living in a modest apartment. The irony, though, in the stupidity of all this is I've been paying a mortgage.

1:21:25I just haven't been seeing it or paying attention to it. That's true. And I've been paying rent. Yeah. So I've actually been spending more money than I am right now. Yeah, that's true. It's just weird to be in there and feel. Yeah, it's just a weird mental game. It's hard to accept. It's hard to wrap your head around. And then, yeah, you're like, well, someone's going to come take it, clearly. Oh, I mean, the amount of times I've thought about the L.A. fire since I moved it. I think about it every 14 minutes. I'm just like, oh, my God. It's going to burn down. Yeah. Like this, I spent six years.

1:22:03This could burn down any minute. Six minutes. I think it's worth sharing because it's like, it's also much trickier than you're guessing it's going to be. Which is not to say it's not fantastic. Oh my God. It's so fucking lucky, but also. So lucky. There's just a lot of mental. They're tied together. The feelings of gratitude and the feelings of. Unworthiness. Yeah. Are like, are all the same. Like you don't really feel like you're unworthy of bad things. You know, it's like it's the good things that you're like, oh, my God, I don't I don't deserve this. But also because I was talking to Anthony last night and I was like, what's funny, though, because I was like, oh, my God, how much like do I talk about the house?

1:22:46Is that going to sound so braggy? But what is also funny and something I don't think about a lot is not, of course, not everyone. But a lot of the people listening have houses. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a city like L.A., New York, San Francisco. It's very specific cities where you can't afford a house at all. Yeah. Yeah. Homeownership is is is limited to a very few here. Yeah. Percentage wise of the population. Yes. In Michigan, most of my friends own house. Yeah. And I think most people listening who aren't in those parts of the country. probably a lot of them have houses and this is like that.

1:23:27It's just new to me. I had it with the first house I got. Yeah. I remember Bree and I sleeping on the floor in front of the fireplace because the heat wasn't on yet. Yeah. And just was going like, well, this is what you get when you're 50. Yeah. That's so interesting. I don't have that age thing. I think maybe because all my friends growing up, they all have houses. Well, it's Specifically a nice house. The majority of the houses in Milford in 1980, they were lower income, small little houses. So for people who got that like 3 ,000 square foot house on an acre, that was always a dude in his peak earning 55.

1:24:05He had been at the company for 35 years, you know? Yeah. So my parents have a, oh, I should say I'm on meth right now. Okay. On D? Yeah. I'm on D. Nice. It's a good ride. I have a cold and it's fine because I'm on meth. Remember when you took a drug test and it showed up a little bit of meth because you were on D? Yes. Yeah. Right after all the chaos. Yeah. And I'm like, I am not on meth, you guys. I just ate. You'll never see me eat on meth. Also, I just, I slept last night. Yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

1:24:57So my parents, they have this shocking, this big superstition. Okay. That when you move in, and they've been talking about this for years. Like when you move in, there's a ritual that I have to do where I pour water. milk in a pot and you boil it until it boils over it's gotta come out the sides yeah i mean how did these things it's like your cup runneth over it's like a way to like start like you're bringing in like abundance and and i and you know i was like oh boy okay but you have a nice new range you don't want to get hot milk all over i know i was like oh i'm gonna like you know have this like boiled milk everywhere yeah but it was it's so important to them like they brought it up so many times and then you know on friday they're like don't forget the milk when do you have to do it night one i imagine so that i got nervous about that it was getting in my head because i don't have a small enough pot right now to do it yeah um and and so i was like can i do it tomorrow my mom's like uh like i could tell she kind of didn't like that yeah what could she do yeah um so i did do it good i mean my point to her would have been like if you're gonna do it do it right do it right now no no i didn't do it that day oh jesus now i'm superstitious no no i didn't have i didn't have the pot oh you should have brought your neighbors i asked no i know but it needed to be really small because like then i'm pouring so much well you want to run it over flood your kitchen with hot milk that's the goal i didn't want to put like two gallons of milk in there and waste it right so i ordered from a from a big conglomerate something something i'm trying to do less i did do because 24 hour shipping um i ordered this very small pot okay and um Feels like a little bit of a workaround would continue.

1:27:00Why? Well, because if your cup runneth over, the whole point is abundance. Yeah. And you're going to heat up a thimble with a drop of milk in it. No, it's the spilling over. It's not the amount of milk. It's just that it boils to the top and spills over. Okay. God, I wish they could explain to me. It makes sense to me actually logically. Like, yeah, you know the idiom, your cup runneth over. I do. But that's when you fill a cup. You have so much bounty that the cup filled and you overfilled it because there's excess. Putting some marginal amount of milk in a pan and then making it boil over is very interesting.

1:27:37And I'd like to know a little more about the logic behind it. OK. And well, in my head, maybe it's like you work for it. You work. You work hard. And then your cup runneth over. But they might tell me this, which would be satisfying. Yeah. generally when people boiled milk and rice there wasn't ever enough that it would have come out the pot but occasionally you had so much that you were making such a big batch that would happen and I'd be like oh great so there has to be something behind it it might be fun if I call my mom okay call her yeah because she's not going to know that's what will be fun about it I know she won't know we'll see if it lines up with what we're at I wonder if my dad's there too no he's at work because he's retired exactly hi mom um you're on the fact check okay hi nermy hey mom we have a question about the milk superstition um is there a backstory to it i need a little bit more of the origin what it symbolizes what what happened historically i don't really know yeah that's what we thought we just always done it.

1:28:46I mean, I think it has to do with some sort of Hindu tradition, some kind of spiritual meaning. I don't really know exactly. Okay. Honestly, I don't know. That's what we thought. We'll look it up, but I didn't know if you happened to know. We figured you probably didn't. Monica was kind of freeform guessing and I wasn't sure that it was the right thing. So, I mean, I figured it's like, it has to be milk. I mean, and I don't know the thing about spilling over. I don't understand. I think that's like your cup runneth over. I think you're conflating different. Maybe that's what it is. My mom said that's right.

1:29:22Well, of course it makes sense to her. You guys are the same. It makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense to me too. It makes logical sense. All right. Well, we're going to look it up then. Okay. Okay. Bye. I love you. I love you. The overflowing milk represents an abundance of food, love, and warmth in the new home. It's often believed to purify the space and usher in positive energy. I love it. It's milk because that's often offered to deities or shared with family members. And it should ideally overflow towards the north or east directions. They didn't tell me that. Oh, you're going to have to put your whole oven on a slant.

1:29:59You're going to put a shim under there. I didn't know that. I don't know which way. I'm not going to think about which way it went. Okay, so you did do it. You got your little pot. I did do it. I got my pot. I boiled the milk. I sent a video to them. Okay, good. So then it was like that. I did it the first day. I was by myself. So that feels like that counts. The other days were fakes because they were sleepovers. I'm just grateful it didn't get away from you. And like you're sending them a video of you with like bad milk burns. I know. Oh, yeah. She told me I could put aluminum foil under the.

1:30:29Yeah. So I did that. Okay, great. That's what the Hindus did. They put aluminum foil under their burner. Yeah, they did. They did because they also respect cleanliness. Anyway, so that was a big superstition. Checked off the list. Thank God. Yeah. Literally, thank God. Thanks to the gods. Thanks to the gods, the many gods. And that is true in the times. Also, my dad went to the temple that day. I think he felt like he had to go to protect my house. Also, because I wasn't doing the milk in time. That might be where he puts more coins in the sim, by the way. Yeah. He checks in there. Yeah. Yeah.

1:31:04He goes to the, quote, temple. But you do give off like you give fruit. You give like offerings to the gods. Yeah. As you should. Yeah. You got to appease them. Well, you got to say thank you. Yeah. Well, I did so much. It did feel like you were gone a really long time. For me, I've never had this. I've had a week that felt like two weeks. Sure. This week felt like three weeks. I thought you were going to say like three months or something. No, that'd be nuts. This literally, if you had to ask me, like, as I got to the airport, when did you fly here? Right. What it really felt like was three weeks.

1:31:45Now, I've had it where it felt like two weeks. But this is really, I'm like, I know I've been gone for three weeks. Right. And I know why. Which was I left at the crack gas of dawn on a Wednesday. I flew to Miami and I had been told by production if I wanted to check a bag, I could not take the connecting flight to Key West that that bag would not get there. So I heeded them. I'm like, well, I got to bring a bag. It's a week. And so I rented a car. So I flew to Miami. Then I rented a car. Then I drove at rush hour to Key West. OK, because that's where you were shooting. That's where I was going to shoot.

1:32:21Yeah. Well, flag on the play. Interesting turn of events. So I'm driving there. That says it's going to be four hours. I'm three and a half hours into the trip. And then I get a text that says your pickup is at 5 a.m. And I'm like, Jesus Christ, 5 a.m. Because I'm on L.A. time. That's 2 a.m. for me. Yeah. And, you know, my pledge on this, this is my pledge for this, this journey acting again is like, I am not going to question anything. Yeah. Which I respect. I'm just not. And then, but then they say, luckily, the pickup's so early because we're shooting on Marathon, which is a different key, which I just drove through 20 minutes before.

1:32:59So I flipped a bitch. I headed up to Marathon, got my own hotel. Oh. And I fucking got to wake up. I got to go in at seven instead of five. Oh, that worked out. And then I shot from 7 a.m. till noon. And then I drove back to Miami. Oh. Right when I got off work. Okay. So again, this is. spaghetti to go hang with Aaron. Right. And why was Aaron there? He just to meet you for fun. So I had three days off. I shot on a Thursday and then I was shooting again on Monday. Got it. And again, it's an entire day to get back to L.A. So if I wanted to go back to L.A., I would have gone an entire day to get there and then I would have been there for one day and then I would have gone an entire day.

1:33:44Wouldn't made sense. Right. I did feel like I think my family members like, well, you're going to have three days off and not come home. But I was like, well, two of those would be traveling whatever so i leave at noon here's some guilt yeah i was just like kristen might probably would have flown home in that little gap well she yes notoriously she'll do anything to be home yeah erin gets there first night we go out and we get this outrageous dinner oh beautiful dinner this restaurant had a pig we could have ordered we would have to order in an hour and a half ahead of time it's a whole pig for the table and it's like serves six to eight people oh my god and we And they were like, should we come back and try to take that big dip?

1:34:22And is the head on it? I hope not. But probably. They like to leave the head on it. I know. Yeah. I don't need that part. No. They like to put an apple in it to dress it up. Why do they do that? Maybe to dress it up. No. Or maybe their teeth look so gross. They're like, shove something in there. Oh. I don't know what's going on there. Or is it seasoning? Well, you're not eating the face. But maybe it like. Well, actually people do eat. It sinks into the body. Okay. I don't want to talk about that. Anyways, let's not get bogged down in that because we didn't even get it. Now, we know the only reason we can really justify, like, we got to shoot some Ted Segers content.

1:34:50Oh, right. We can't be together. Smart. So I book an airboat tour through the Everglades. Okay. I get this idea when I'm flying in, because you're flying in over the Everglades. And I just start hearing the Jerry Reed song. Here comes Amos. Oh, yeah. Oh, Amos Moses was a cage in it. Yeah, we just talked about that recently. We don't need to do that again. Oh. On a delegator for living. I'll just knock him in the head with a stump. son louisiana all gonna get you amos so i hear that song the groceries song yeah horse rass yeah yeah which is all about a guy who haunts alligators so i want to do a ted seger's amos here come amos commercial okay so on the drive out to this uh airboat tour we're like okay in order of like what we hope can happen like hopefully we see some alligators and we can get the beer can next close to it oh okay and then we go wonder if there's any way this guy will let us drive the airboat.

1:35:42Oh, God. While drinking some Seegers. Of course he let you. Well, hold on. Okay. We're like, that's the pie in the sky fantasy, right? So we meet the dude at the gas station. We follow him to this little fucking pallet that's sitting on the shoreline. And there's the big fan boat. You know, it's got the huge, huge propeller in back and then this big 454 big block motor in it. And the dude's awesome right away. He says pretty quickly, you're um you're in recovery right and he's from there he's uh he was Nicaraguan oh cool but grew up in Miami and um he said you're in recovery and I said oh yeah yeah we're we both are um in fact we want to shoot a bunch of stuff for this NA beer and he's like oh yeah man I'm in recovery too I was like oh fuck yeah so this dude had been sober for I think two or three years ah good for him we're whipping through the fucking everglades the the the amount of birds overhead it's so otherworldly i'm shooting all this great stuff we get up we're one inch from a crocodile we're already as you can imagine we're tickled pink we're drinking beer next to the alligator and then i say to the guy go listen tell me to fuck off but if is there any chance if we get in a straightaway that we could like sit in the chair and act like we're driving he's like Yeah, let's go.

1:37:05Okay, now go ahead and look at the other videos. Because we had to fucking learn to drive. Oh, wow. Oh, my God. Look at Aaron. So that's how you drive it? Yes, so you have this stick in your left hand that controls the fins behind the fan. Wow. So you're just directing the air left or right. And then there's a gas pedal. It was kind of easy to drive once you got the hang of the stick. Yeah. Because you're not turning left or right. You're going backward or forward to go left or right. Interesting. Okay, I'm going to air in. It's already epic.

1:37:52There you go. Oh, man. It's all right. It's all right. i you you guys are such boys it is so funny this like i i don't i don't i mean this as a compliment yeah this looks so boring like like like this looks so not the video but just like to be excited about driving like i just i can't relate at all but when you look at that thing aren't you like how on earth do you drive that? No. Oh, my God. I think difference. I'm really not at all interested. Oh, yeah. I think for me, I know for Aaron, I'm not going to speak for Rob. He never agrees with me. You look at that thing. You're like, how are they driving that?

1:38:40Where's the steering wheel? Right. So then there's a little bit of like, could I drive it if I had to? Sure. I know. See, that's the difference. Yes. And I get that. You get it, right? I get that. Like, what if we were flying an airplane like the guy was like yeah go give it a shot and then Aaron and I flew an airplane and landed when you just be like oh my god I can't believe you did that so it's a lot of oh my god I can't believe we did that no but I guess what I'm saying is I don't ever go into an airplane and think like I wonder how I fly this like it that doesn't go in I'm just like how do I escape if something bad is happening that's the thing that happens yes and I have an immediate challenge in front of me.

1:39:21We were saying like, would we try to drive a cruise ship? Oh, is there a video like of the boat? Not from inside? No, because we would be standing. I know, but I didn't know if you got any. Oh, right. I have video of another fan boat that went by because you're curious what it looks like. Yeah, it's like because you're just seeing you guys in a chair. Yeah, with an enormous propeller behind us. But you can't see the extent. And you don't even know what an airboat slash fan boat is, right? No. Yeah, it's like all the swamp boats. They're crazy. They don't have a propeller or anything. You're just right there.

1:39:56Okay, yeah. Look at that contraption. Yeah, that is wild. And you're driving it by steering the wind coming off that huge fan. That's cool. Yeah. Ish. And you can drive it over land. That's what's cool about it. You can go over grass, land. And you can get yourself in and out of everywhere with those things. Anywho, we were ecstatic. That's fun. I'm glad you guys did that. Speaking of driving, I forgot to say this earlier when you were talking about the driving portion. Yeah. I got pulled over. For speeding? No. And it was by Chips. California Highway Patrol. Yeah. Your bread and butter. Yeah.

1:40:39Did you tell them you were in Chips? No, but I would have. You should have. If things had gotten progressively bad, then I would have said it. Okay. I'm very close. The house is very close to my apartment, obviously. I lived five minutes away. But because of the way the highways are, now I'm using different highways. Yeah, you used to take the five a lot. Always. Yeah, I'm never on the five. I know. And so I was using a different highway to get to a place that I go a lot. and all of a sudden my gps told me to take the exit but right before that was like a side was like a bus or something lane i don't know what it was but i took that okay and then there was a chips and they pulled me over okay and and i was like was i not supposed to do it was like the first i was like was i not supposed to do that yeah and she said no that's a something lane there's a little sign I was like well I don't have good eyes I didn't say that yes I can't see that's their that's their fault that makes sense I just I don't know how to see so um yeah but I got away with it thank god got a warning yeah but I was really scared and she said uh she was like do you live around here and I was just trying to answer so on it I was like no I do and she was She looked at me weird, like, well, why wouldn't you know this?

1:42:06And I didn't want to explain. Well, I just moved and I normally use the other highway. Right. I'm only good at one highway. So I just was like, sorry. I'm really sorry. And she let me off with a warning. Good, good, good, good, good. So that was scary. I hate getting, I don't like getting pulled. You get pulled over a lot. So you. I haven't pulled over in a while. Let's knock on wood. That's about the first time I've ever wanted to knock on wood. Oh, wow. Okay. So that was that. Then we went out. The restaurant, Monica, half of it's underwater. Oh, wow. It's all this water. And there are performers, contortionists, people hanging from the ceiling by their hair doing acrobatics.

1:42:48Oh, I love acrobatics. Everyone's dressed. It's kind of like what Marcella was talking about. It's just like the vibe, the way the men are dressed. Yeah. It's so upscale. It's so cool. And it's, but there's upscale. That's like fucking, there's no rhythm to it. Like you go upscale Connecticut, upscale New York. This is vibrant. I can't tell you how happy we were. Oh, so grateful. Yeah. And then the next day I drove four hours back to Key West. Shot all day Monday, had a great shoot day. Like really so happy. I ended up doing this whole thing. This was my last day on the show. Yeah. Oh, I didn't realize that.

1:43:31Anyways, by the time I landed last night at 10 o 'clock at night, I was like, I've been home for three weeks. I had four different life experiences. You did a lot. Oh, spilled. Good fortune. Yeah. And your cup run is over and it happened naturally. Oh, wow. We'll leave it there for some good luck. Yeah. That's north too. What? That's north too. Oh, really good. And east. It's northeast. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It's really meant to be. Did you do that on purpose? I didn't. I didn't. And it is milk, right? What is that? There is milk in it. It's tea with milk in it. This feels so staged. My dad.

1:44:12My dad did that. That's a nice framing. It's like when you spill, it's like, ah, it's good luck. It's very good framing. Charlie? Yeah, we should get into Charlie because Charlie has a lot of facts. Weirdly. Okay, Charlie Fax. Now, first off, first and foremost, he performed at the Super Bowl. Uh-huh. As he told us he was going to do. Yeah. He was incredible. Yes. And it seemed like he did exactly what he was aiming to do. He said, like, you know, we can look back and see. And I think he did it. He's like, then the thing will come in here and then the horns. Yeah, he said a choir. I think that was there.

1:44:59Multiple people, musicians, were like, that's the best. I think that's the best you can do. Oh, good. Yeah. It was really good. You know, I've sang at sporting events. Oh, you have? I've sang the national anthem twice at sporting events. By yourself? No. In my chorus. Okay. I was going to say. Still counts? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Still counts. But I couldn't see you standing up by yourself and singing the national anthem. Because you won't sing in here. No, I won't. So it seemed really out of keeping with what I know about you. That's right. I was in a chorus. And I think sometimes I would just mouth it.

1:45:34Sure. For those who are scared. It's a good technique. Now, what song were you referencing that was ripped off Marvin Gaye's song? Right. By. Robin Thicke and Pharrell. Right. Gotta Give It Up. Oh, I'm sorry. Marvin Gaye's song is Gotta Give It Up. Blurred Lines is the song. Yeah. And the gay estate was awarded$7.3 million after successfully arguing that the songs groove and feel were lifted, despite arguments that the sheet music was different. Now, this is a tricky. I think this is tricky because can't they just say they were sampling it? Yeah, that's what's interesting. I think if you there's a lot of rules, there's something about like you can do two or three bars, but not four.

1:46:23Right. I think in sampling, that's what they're working around. I think you have to pay for sampling, too. Oh, you do? You pay for sampling? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, I won't out this person, but there was an album out recently that had so many, what I thought was samples, but I don't think they were samples, but they were the same music as other music. So I think this is, yeah, this is Trix. Yeah. And also when you start learning to play guitar, when you learn these three chords on guitar, you can play 80 % of the rock music that's ever. It's just like the tempo is a little different. The pace is a little different, but it's really just going back and forth between these three chords.

1:47:07So, you know, it's, yeah, it's hard. It's hard. I'm sure it has to be very obvious. Well, Blurred Lines is that song. If you listen to them back to back, there's really no. Right. Yeah. And I worship Pharrell. Me too. So no shade to him. Robin Thicke on the pod. Yes. In that same vein, when Charlie was here and was like doing his amazing thing he can do with his voice and with all the songs and he can just sing them all. But he can sing the sound. Yeah, yeah. It's so wild. He was doing that and we were like, oh, Su Su Sudio sounds like Prince. Sounds like 1989. We were talking about that. Prince was first.

1:47:49We weren't sure, but it was 1984. And then Phil Collins was 1985. So very quickly. And then Purple Rain is 8 minutes and 41 seconds. There's a shorter 7 inch. You know what that means? No. That's a 45. So your 33s are 12 inches wide and your 45s are 7 inches. So 7 inch or 12 inch. Oh, okay. Yeah. A shorter seven-inch edit often used for radio is four minutes and five seconds. I think that's what we all grew up listening to. Okay. And then live, the song frequently exceeded 12 minutes, with some performances lasting over 19 minutes. That's a long time for a song. That's cool to see in person. It might be too long for me.

1:48:37Really? You know, I start getting like, when will this end feelings? Oh, my God. Limited edition, though. I guess that's a good framing of it. I'm all about framing today. He asked, is is Bowie's sushi still a thing in Malibu? I looked it up. It is. It was open yesterday. Oh, OK. It's spelled B-U-I. OK. B-U-I. Oh, the name of the host of the New Jersey radio show 101.1 WCBS FM in the 90s. The morning hosts were Ron Lundy and Harry Harrison. Harry Harrison. You think that was his real name? probably not i don't know it sounds a little bit like dallas reigns it does yeah um so harry and the hendersons maybe it was a nod yeah maybe he's a sasquatch what's that mean why harry was a sasquatch and harry and the hendersons oh i never saw it they hit it they hit a sasquatch they bring him home they hit him with the car i believe that's how they came yeah i think that's how he came to live in the house and they hit him with the car and then they kidnapped him no they He wanted to resuscitate him and bring him back to the house and help him.

1:49:50And they became friends. Oh. You know, it's a very uplifting. It's not a horror movie. It's a positive kids movie where they befriend a Bigfoot. I thought it was maybe a show. It might be a show. Oh, okay. It's a film. It's a what? It's a film. Oh, it's a film. It's neither a movie nor a show. Okay, so you just blew your nose. I cut it, but you blew your nose. Yeah. And since I've had a little cold today, earlier before my D kicked in, I was sneezing and blowing my nose so much. And I thought of you so much because I was like, this is one, so annoying. Isn't it the worst? Two, embarrassing. Yeah.

1:50:35And Dax, this is all the time. And Aaron does it even worse. Oh, my God. And Aaron's been doing it since I met him. He's never had relief from this. I have periods of relief, but in general, yeah, it's I hate it. I never have to blow my nose unless I've like showered or something. So water's in there or I'm sneezing. Like you have to blow your nose all the time. All the time. OK, now Rumson, Rumson, the town he's from, he said at 7000 people, he was right. About seventy two hundred to seventy three hundred residents. You really nailed it. He really did nail it. Um, is Vin Diesel from New Jersey?

1:51:17Uh, no, he's not. Where is he from? He's from Alameda County, California, but then later moved to New York with his fraternal twin brother, Paul. Oh. Yeah. Oh my God. His mom was an astrologer. We should have him on. His life sounds interesting. Now, the Japanese word that's not wabi-sabi, Jesus, we brought it up again in an episode I'm editing currently. And it's in a TV show I just watched. Wabi Sabi or this other one? The Broken Pots. Yeah. Okay. Kintsukori or Kintsugi. Kintsugi is the thing I think of a lot. Kintsugi. Translates to Golden Joinery. That's the thing I left out. Aaron and I watched The Smashing Machine.

1:52:01We're also watching movies every night. Oh. And that's a big part of The Smashing Machine. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, ding, ding, ding. He brought up Smosh. that's similar to the word smash and um smosh is a because we was talking about his youtube stuff um smosh was big in that world american youtube sketch comedy improv collective and i worked for smosh you did yeah when i had all those millions of jobs yeah one of them was for smosh someone i did improv with worked for smosh and i you know needed a job and so he got so i wrote little articles for smosh for a long time you did yeah like 10 funniest moments from spongebob 10 like those types of things okay yeah yeah so i did that for a while and i forgot all about it oh former employer okay is bruce springsteen from ansbury park so born in long branch and raised in Freehold.

1:53:09Oh, Asbury. Asbury Park. Okay. Yeah. Asbury's. No, as. Asbury. Yeah. There's not two S's. Okay. But there's also no Z, so it's hard. Yeah. So, yeah. He is? I mean, okay. It says that he was born in Long Branch and raised in Freehold, so that's not saying anything about it but then it also says that he was born and raised in asbury springstein is asbury park new jersey so it must be in freehold or something that makes sense okay so i only have one more fact which is uh i wanted to go through some classic vocab words because we talked about some vocab words. Okay. I have a list. A thousand most common SAT words.

1:54:00A thousand. Yeah. Let's see how fast I can do it. I'm just kidding. I won't do that. But do you want to pick a letter and I'll pick a couple? Sure. J. Okay. Rare letter to start a word with. J is really small only has three. Wow. I had a hunch. Wow. Okay. Do you want to guess? Juxtaposition. Yes, that's one. Oh my God. If you get these. Jurisprudence. No, but in that vein, in that category. Whoa. Judicial? Yes, but it's a version of that word. Adjudicate? No, that's anyway. All right. What is it? Judicious. Judicious! Yeah, wow. Okay, we're kind of I'm going to say we're 1.5 for two No, I'm going to give 1.8 Okay, wow, that's generous And then the last one I'll never get No, you'll get Should I give you a hint?

1:55:00Yeah, give me some kind of a hint It's a state of being A positive state of being Jubilant? Yes! Really? Good job! I'm very impressed That was so fun It's jubilant? Yeah, jubilant. Jubilant. Yeah, I don't say it right. Wow, that was really good. Oh, fun. I'm impressed. Oh, thank you. I love it and I impress you. And that's it for Charlie. Wow, juxtaposition, judicious, and jubilant. That's right. Really good. Really good. Okay, well, that's it for Charlie. I thought that was a lovely episode. I put him in the category of people like I put Charlie Sheen in where I had a really strong idea of what they were going to be and that they were very much not that.

1:55:56Yeah I wasn't saddled with any expectation of him. I'm kind of in the dark a lot about you know like I don't know about the Taylor Swift song about him and stuff. I'm kind of a dum-dum. He's a genius. He's a musical genius. Really wild. I didn't know that. Alright. All right. Love you.