Cher

24:38He was very protective, but not just of me. He was a good friend to all his guys. And it says in the book, the night that I was in this club, I had my back to the door. And when he walked in, I noticed that everyone's going, son, hey, Sonny, come and sit with us. Hey, Sonny, come and sit with us. Son, Son, come sit with us. And I'm thinking, who in God's name is behind me? And I turn around. It was Maria and. Oh, Tony and Maria. Yeah, Tony and Maria. Right. Right. Thank you. See, I knew you should be here.

25:13Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking which platform you watch that new show on. So frustrating. 15 minutes later, you've logged into seven apps, reset two passwords, and still haven't found it. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary. Subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Co. and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois.

25:47We are supported by Inuit TurboTax. You know that feeling when you drop your taxes off with somebody and then nothing? You're just sitting there wondering if they've even started, if there's a problem. If you're getting everything you're owed, it's like sending your car to the shop and never getting an update. That's what I appreciate about TurboTax full service. They've completely flipped that experience. You get matched with a dedicated tax expert who actually does your taxes for you. And here's the part that changes everything. You get real time updates on your experts progress right in the app.

26:21You can literally see when they're working on your return. No more guessing. No more waiting by the phone. And if you have questions, you get unlimited help from your expert at no extra cost, even nights and weekends during tax season. They're focused on getting you the best possible outcome and every dollar you deserve. Visit TurboTax.com to get matched with a TurboTax full-service expert today. That's TurboTax.com, only available with TurboTax full-service experts, real-time updates, and iOS mobile app.

26:57So everyone just disappeared. How long were you living together before it got blurry? It got way blurry when my mom came in and found his shorts next to the teabags. Okay. She was like, what's happening here? I would say, Mom, if you're going to come over, just call me before. I want to make sure the house is clean. And then I lost most of his clothes because when she was coming over, I threw them in my girlfriend's. She left her window open. I just threw them through the window. Okay. And Sonny came down. He said, Cher, my shorts, my underwear is all over the bushes over there. What are you doing?

27:31And he was working for Phil Spector. And for people who are not aware of Phil Spector, a lot of people won't be. He was a titan in the 60s music. He invented this wall of sound recording technique. He was a god. He just produced so many hit records. He made the record group. Yes. And so Sonny was working for him. And you start kind of stopping by the recording studio. That's not exactly true. I had met Philip before with his best friend, and I walked in and sat down, and he asked me in French, would I go to bed with him? Sure. And so I knew the answer, and I said, for money. Oh, nice. And then when I had to meet him with Sonny, I had to kind of say, Sonny, my man in my knowing, he doesn't like me.

28:16So anyway, but finally he said to Sonny, I'll bring her. So he brought me, and Philip and I had a really weird relationship. Can I just tell people also, in addition to him being a pioneer in sound, he also got convicted for murdering someone. For people who don't know, the end of the Phil Spector story. That was way, way later. Yeah, yeah. That was in the 90s maybe. But did you get a creepy vibe from him or no? He was an eccentric man, but could you see that it was weirder than that? No, he was really eccentric. He could be funny. He could be kind of... Scary? No, never that. I was never going to take shit from him.

28:48And Sonny used to say, Cher, he's my boss. Please stop. And I went, yeah, well, I don't give a shit. Right, right, right, right. So you had a weird relationship with him. Yeah, I don't know where I got this chutzpah because I should have been nervous and frightened because everybody else was. But he probably liked that, that you were the only person not doing that. Because you've been trained on like 65 different stepdads. You had to adjust all these different people with big personalities. He tried. If someone says that as their first sentence to you and you say the sentence back, which he was shocked.

29:21Yeah, how much? And you can't really take being frightened serious. But you end up singing background on some songs that become hits. Because Sonny had told him, you know, Cher sings. If someone tells you someone sings, it's like, oh, God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, yeah. Okay, fine. Darlene and I were talking about this not on goal. So Darlene, her car broke down and Phillip said, Sonny said, you sing, go in there. I wanted to tell him what my credentials were, but I didn't have any. And so I went in and I started, that was being my baby. And I kept going until after the Christmas album. Wow.

29:58Yeah. A huge hit song. Having not planned on that and that happening, were you so tickled by that turn of events? Were you like excited when you'd hear your song come on the radio? Well, the first one I did was that. And the last one is You've Lost That Loving Feeling. And I was the last girl. That's the one I'm thinking of. I was the only girl. Was it so exciting? Great song. Yeah. Well, we were all sitting in the booth and when Bill finished it, nobody could kind of breathe. It was like, ah. So then you and Sonny record some songs. Yeah, nothing. Crickets. How do you end up meeting the Rolling Stones and how do they tell you, you know what you guys should do is you should go to England, you and Sonny.

30:39Sonny and Jack Nitschie met them and they didn't like being here so much because of the way that the older people, the heads of the studios, they didn't understand it. Bobcat vests and big elephant bell bottoms and people were wearing suits and dresses, you know, short dresses, but above the knee, not short. This whole bohemian kind of style wasn't accepted. No. So you go to England and you guys become quite famous. Overnight. Because you arrive and you get thrown out of the hotel as you arrive and it's all captured in the media. And that makes you guys an overnight sensation. Why'd you get thrown out?

31:21They're close. Because they're close, the way we looked. Wow. It's so funny because you see them now and you're like, oh, yeah, that looks exactly like it's supposed to. Yeah. But the notion that you guys were getting thrown out for how you looked is pretty. Because you were renegade. Because nobody looked as strange as we did. We left as nobodies and came back to America. I think 5 ,000 people were at the airport. Because I Got You Babe had come out by that point. I Got You Babe came out in Europe, in England. Yeah. In 65. By the time we got back home, it was a huge hit. Wow. And so then why did it sour?

31:54Because you get your first kind of valley between 65 and 71. There's the six years where you have this pretty big success, and then you got to go back to the drawing board. It had passed us by at that time. We didn't really grow with the people and everybody was doing drugs. Everybody was talking about doing drugs and we didn't do, well, I didn't do drugs. Sonny was a little iffy. The counterculture was taking over. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So at that point, Sonny basically redesigns you guys. Yes. Are you thinking, well, the ride's over? Were you quick to give up or did you have the same optimism that Sonny did?

32:29I did not have the same optimism. And what I had was faith because he said, give me two years and we'll be more famous than we ever were before. Which is crazy. And you guys developed more of a lounge act in the wake of this, right? It was an accident. We went just to sing. But the people didn't like us and were so disrespectful that I just started making jokes for the band. And through that, you discovered, oh. No, Sonny discovered. You're quite funny. Yeah. Sonny knew what the pulse was and he knew what to bet on. So he encouraged it. not at home, not anyplace else, just on stage. Yeah, and there's this other weird dynamic people might not know about is that Sonny never wanted to perform, really.

33:07He wanted you to be a star, and he wanted to produce your music, and you very much had stage fright and wanted him present, so you'd feel confident. I still get it. Yeah, you have it here. That's why Kristen's sitting right there. Yeah, yeah, Sonny. She's acting as Sonny, yeah. Sonny Bell. So once you do the Sonny and Cher show, which again comes out of this lounge routine you're doing. And Sonny goes back to the drawing board and he does. He cracks it. I think this will blow people's mind that Sonny and Cher was getting 30 million viewers a week. That's insane. There's not a show on TV that even is one-tenth of that anymore.

33:41And you guys were together at this point, right? Oh, yeah. Okay. And you were like very deeply connected. Well, this is when, I guess it had been happening before, but this is when now this kind of new side of Sonny comes out, which is like incredibly controlling. You have this huge success. There's a lot of money. You're not allowed to leave the house. You're allowed to go shopping. That's pretty much all you're allowed to do, right? And he's cutting you off from friendships you have. This side of him, was it happening slowly? Was it more like you woke up one day and were like, oh, I don't have a life?

34:16Or while it was happening, were you like, what's going on? Was it something that occurred to you late? It took a little while. I couldn't do anything. Jodi was our friend and our manager and also in the mafia. But I wanted to do something. And I just said, I'll learn how to play tennis. So I was going there and I was having the best time. Jodi went with me to pick out my clothes. And then I'm going with this lady every couple of days. And then one day I'm leaving, but she's having a huge party. So there are people coming in. And so Dennis, my friend, told Sunny that I was there. But lots of people were there and lots of men were there.

34:56And he burned my clothes. In the fireplace or in the yard? The yard's more dramatic. Was he giving excuses at first for why you should stay in the house? Was it a slow burn of you should stay in because you're too famous now? What was he saying? I think it came on kind of slowly because also when we started Sonny and Cher's show, I was free on the show and he was funny and we got along. It's such a strange dichotomy because we would be laughing and we'd be having the best time. And then when we were at home, it was kind of more cut and dried. Yeah, he had lots of other girlfriends. I didn't know, except the one.

35:33In the middle of the night, you go to get a glass of water and there's a young woman putting her boots on in the house. Yes. Were you thinking of how to get out of it? No. Were you underwhelmed with like, wow, I have a hit show and we're making tons of money and I'm not very happy. Were you having like, where's the joy? It wasn't that because I was so happy with the show and he was so nice on their show. And so at the show, we would be having the best time and we were more working than we were at home. So had you not had the show, you might've started questioning the whole relationship, but it works so well there that you're like, well, it works.

36:08Do you think this was an old fashioned masculine Italian mancho ownership over you? When he took my money, I said, why did you do this? And he said, because I always knew you were going to go. He started smoking cigars and I knew it was over. Yeah, you said that. Why is that? What is that indicative of? Because like businessmen smoke cigars. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I'm wondering, there's this pretty well-worn track with y 'all, which is men are attracted to your sparkliness and then they're with you and then they're super threatened by your sparkliness. So that's what's a mystery to me is like, he didn't have any interest in you, but yet he was very jealous and didn't want anyone else to have you.

36:54Do you think he was protecting his financial interests or his heart interest? No, not his heart interest by that time. So it's just more like you were his whole business and he wanted to keep you just doing that business. And also he couldn't do it without me. Clearly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You did it without him as it turned out. But also we had fun. It was such a polar opposites because on stage we had a blast. He let me have all the freedom that I wanted to. And then we came home. The show kept us together a lot longer than we would have been anyway, because we had such a good time. He was so fun and he was so funny and we worked so well together.

37:34He played a bit of a beta role on the show, but then in real life he wanted to be very alpha. Yeah. Yeah, maybe he felt emasculated in the show, and so he had to compensate at home. When he found his place, when he found what he was good at, he was really funny. And actually, the people liked him more than me. I don't know about that. I get it. You were the more powerful of the group. No, I was the bitch. He's more of like an underdoggy. On the monologues, I just cut him to ribbons. but then he found this kind of nebbish funny guy and everyone loved him and they were drawn to me you're touring like crazy when you're not doing the show the marriage it's not great and at some point you become friends with david geffen he enters your life oh no no i met him at lou edder's christmas party there is we found it we got it met him at the christmas party and at some point he says can i read your contract bill was way before david bill is the guitarist in the band.

38:34Yes. The guts from I don't even know where because everyone was terrified of Sonny. You're in Vegas doing shows. You have to do a bunch of shows and you finally had enough. You're done and you've not confided to anybody what you're going through. My friend Paulette knew, but everybody was really frightened of Sonny. And I was thinking about jumping off the balcony. And you confided in the guitarist of the band. One night I just went to the band's room after the show. Which Sonny did not want you doing that. Are you kidding? He didn't want me doing anything. He didn't want me to do anything. Don't you go into a room and just shut down until the next performance.

39:11No, he had a kidney stone and I got to go to the movies with my friends. And you were so excited he had a kidney stone. Yes, I was so excited. Did you ever think, what's happened to me? No. I mean, if you're 16 and someone's 27 and you don't know what you are doing, and then all of a sudden you're singing with Philip and Sonny was nice then. And Sonny was nice for a really long time and then not so nice. So you confide in this bandmate. And then, yeah, you just use him a little bit as like, okay, I'm going to wiggle out. He said, everyone wants to know why do you live this way? Did that feel like reality just shattered?

39:49I mean, I knew it was obvious to Palette, but I wasn't allowed to talk to the band. So I didn't realize that they knew. Yeah. And now you're saying I'm leaving this residency. Like, I'm not going to perform. That became your trump card. That night, it was crazy. Sonny said, are you crazy? Do you know what you're doing? He said, you need to come back to the room. And I said, you know what? Bill wants to come with me. It was just crazy. There's the breaking point. I hadn't eaten in days. I wasn't even 98 pounds. Because he wouldn't let you eat? No, no, I couldn't. Oh, you were just so in fight or flight.

40:23You know, I was just like crazy. Bill comes up and he was 22. I was 25. And then the second time he said, why do you live this way? And I said, I don't know. I mean, I can't do it anymore. I don't know what I'm going to do. So Sonny said, come back up to this room now. And I said, I'm going to bring Bill. I went from one kind of person just flipped over that night. Yeah, did a 180. But he was so business minded, Sonny, that he knew best to salvage the business. Like once he recognized, oh, you might be deserting this business. He came to the table in a way that was like, OK, I'm going to let you move to Malibu.

41:11The concession started. Also, I didn't know how powerful I was at all. Right, right, right, right. So the ball has started rolling, but it's not until Geffen looks at this contract and says to you, Do you realize 100 % of this money goes to a company called Share Inc. That is owned 95 % by Sonny and 5 % by his lawyer. 0 % for Share? 0%. Oh, my. And it's been generating a fortune. It was like born yesterday. Because they would bring me a bunch of Share Enterprises contracts to sign. And it was always when I was getting ready to go on stage. Yeah, what, are you going to read 20 pages of legalese?

41:50And I'm not going to read anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the next day he said, you got to get out of this. So I went to Sonny and I said, I'll stay if we're partners. And he said, no. So stupid. What a dumbass on top of everything else. But he wasn't used to it. And he hated David. I mean, he hated him with a vengeance. I'm sure. None of the others, but David. You had Stockholm syndrome to some degree. You know, you were living with kind of a captor. I guess so. He was push and pull kind of. I mean, he never hit me. He never did anything like that. And he would be really nice. And we were working most of the time.

42:27He'd buy you things and seemingly spoil you. Yes, all kinds of shit. And you were moving to nicer and nicer houses. So it was working. But that is the cycle of abuse we know now is love bombing mixed with hyper control. He used to buy me really expensive presents, but it wasn't for me so much. It was to show people who he was. That he spoiled you. Yeah. Yeah, that was a big, big shock. Yeah. Okay, so you guys get divorced. I also think it's really interesting. You did reach out to Lucy Arnaz. I love Lucy. And for people to know that history, she too was in business with her husband on a show. And my mom was on that show.

43:06Oh, she was. She acted on it. Yeah. What did Lucy say? And she had had a similar situation with Desi. He was controlling and he had screwed her out of a bunch of money. Yeah. And what'd she say to you? Fuck him. Get to getting. Nice. Fuck him, you're the talented one. Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Were you like able to take that in when she said, you're the talented one? Were you able to really be like, actually, I am. To own that? Gave me a lot of courage. And David was there. I couldn't have done it without David. You then go on to record in 71, Gypsies, Tramps, and Thieves, Half-Breathe, Dark Lady, the music career starting to now work without Sunny.

43:43And then how do we get into Silkwood? Was it calculated or did it kind of come about? No, I've never calculated anything. I've just been lucky. I went to Mike Nichols once for an audition and he said, Cher, there are two kinds of women and you're not the one I want for this. And I said to him, you know, I'm talented and one day you're going to be really upset. You're going to be sorry. So I'm doing, come back to the five and dime. So he came to the matinee and then he came backstage and he said, you're right. You're talented. And I'm really sorry. Really? He said, how would you like to make a movie with Meryl Streep.

44:21And I said, okay, that sounds good. That sounds right. I fall in love with you for Mask. I think Mask is such a special movie. It was. And I had such a horrible time with Peter. It was terrible. The worst experience I ever had. Bagdanovich. Yeah. He was directing. I don't even think I knew that. Why? Because he has a thing with his actresses. He didn't like me from the get-go. I don't know how I got hired, but I guess he saw that I would be good at it, but he didn't like me. He didn't really like the characters. He was an Ascot kind of guy. Yes. And this is about a biker family. He knew enough to pick the script, but he didn't like the people and he didn't like me at all.

45:06Really? And how would that present itself? Would he make you do millions of takes? No, no, no. I'll give you one story. We're doing a big scene in the kitchen. So he said, where do you think it would be good to do this tomorrow? And I said, we'll be in the kitchen all day. Maybe we should go into the little dining room thing. He said, okay. And then the next morning he comes in to me. He was eating an egg sandwich. That's the thing I can. Focal point of the experience. That's the grounding of that experience. And he just started, you know, I don't know who you think you are. You're not going to tell me where to.

45:41It was crazy. Then we're doing the scene and Peter comes up to give me a direction and he puts his hand on the back of my shoulder. And I said, take it off. Don't ever touch me again. Good for you. It was over. Yeah. You're phenomenal in that movie. You're so good. The other movie I wanted to ask you about, because I'm so obsessed with him, but what was happening on Moonstruck with you and Nicolas Cage? That feels like the pairing of a lifetime. Well, you know, they don't want him in the beginning. Because? They wanted Peter Gallagher, who I love, but he wasn't right. And I had seen Nikki in Peggy Sue Got Married.

46:16Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I knew he was the only one to play it. And then they said no, and I quit. Oh, wow. So you were the one pushing for Nick Cage. Yeah. Did you know him prior to making it? I didn't know him. I just knew that only he could do it. I mean, can you see anybody else saying, Chrissy, give me the big knife? No, but I'm his number one fan, so he does no wrong in my opinion. I think he's the most exciting actor to watch alive. He had to have had a crush on you, yeah, in real life? I don't know. I think so. I don't remember. I don't think so. You don't think so? No, I don't know. I don't know.

46:56I have a boyfriend. It doesn't stop people from having crushes. Yeah, I know. While you were in this big chunk, you're having tremendous success as an actor. Do you want to resume singing? Are you like, fuck, this is great. I like doing this. I like doing movies. It's less exhausting. I'm not on the road. I didn't really have any cachet as a singer so much. Also, the songs, they were so formulaic, you know, gypsies and whatever. So people didn't want to know me, truthfully. What gets you back in the ring as a singer? Because in 87, which is the same year as Moonstruck, you released Cher. So you're back at it.

47:33What prompted that? I don't know. You work. Well, if you go, who cares? No. Who fucking cares? You had to. No, I was signed to the company. Okay. So you were under contract? Yeah. When you have now an explosion of success with your music career in the late 80s, does that come as a surprise to you? Things in my life just stop. It's like you're this and then you're new and improved. You've reinvented yourself. So I went on the road. I went to the Elephant's Graveyard. I went to Las Vegas and had a residency. So you liked the residencies? Yes, but I felt bad because people were making fun of me. They were?

48:14Everybody. Not me. I came to see you in your residency. Shares in the Elephant's Graveyard because that's where you went. But also I had to make money. Well, you made a ton of money. Turns out Sonny, you know. Was an idiot. Yeah, he didn't make a lot of money, but you went on to make a lot of money. But he had my$11 million. Ay, ay, ay. Did that drive you nuts? I just couldn't believe it. Yeah, it said that at the time you guys were trying to divide up$24 million in assets, which today is$175 million. Like you guys have fucking made some money. And you didn't walk with half of that is what you're saying.

48:49I didn't walk with any of it. None of it. So he won that. Yeah. But then you got the last laugh, 100 million albums. Your tour that you went on in 2002 to 2005 was the highest grossing tour of any female singer of all time. Now just Taylor's taking the baton. I was about to say. Yeah. I never got to that. I mean, people didn't get to that. Well, your tour made$250 million 20 years ago, so that's pretty fucking massive. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Also, I have never had luck with men and money. It seems like I'm a target, and there's so many ways to do that with record companies. So you feel like you've gotten screwed more than once.

49:29Yeah. And what do you think that's about? I think it was a big thing with women in those days. I mean, look, a lot of men were getting screwed. Black men, black performers especially. Oh, yeah. There's some horrendous Motown stories. That's another thing. You come from nothing. They rightly assess, oh, they'll be fine with this. Yeah. My managers at that point were taking so much. And my business manager, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so when you had this massive success round two as a singer, How do you decide what you're going to do next? How did you decide, do I do movies or do I continue with this music?

50:05What am I supposed to be focusing on? How were you deciding that? Things come up. They just present themselves and you say yes or no. Yeah. But you were never kind of thinking, well, I haven't been in a movie in a while. I need to duck back in and just make sure. No strategy. No, just things come your way. I've been lucky. I've been a combination, but more lucky than not. I honestly believe this. There are people so much more talented than me, but I'm lucky too. You have to have a certain amount of luck in this business. Yeah. Okay. My last question is. Oh, I didn't think it would ever end. I know.

50:41I know it's grueling. And we appreciate you. We do. Other than Geffen, have you ever had a man that you deserved? I had two. Okay, good. That's good. I would be sad if you didn't feel like you. If it was zero. Several of these you did not deserve. Well, Bill, yes. Gregory is a double-edged sword because he was a kind, fun, talented man that was a drug addict. When we had great times, he was very human and exceptional. And when he was doing drugs, he left. I mean, he would go away and then he'd come back. Is that the hardest way to end a relationship where it's like the thing that's going to keep you guys apart isn't even an issue between you.

51:28It's an issue between him and something else. That's got to be the hardest to swallow. It took me a long time. And Robert was a wonderful person. He still is. We still talk to each other. And Alexander is a wonderful person. That's your current boyfriend. Yeah. With the six-year-old. We're including him in the two, I hope. Yeah, of course. Yeah, we are. We are. And David was wonderful too. Did you guys keep a friendship over the years? because it feels like a special you and Geffen. Yeah, and Robert. You were friendly with everyone, huh? Even Sonny. Kind of. Yeah. Well, you know, yeah. Not with his wife.

52:04That didn't go well. No, because she's trying to take all my money. Sure. She already got more than she should have to begin with. Yeah. Well, Sierra. It's been fascinating. I think you're such an attractive badass. Sparkly person. We're lucky to have you. I like the combo of tough and fragile. Yeah. It's very appealing. You have to deal with it. Sometimes it's not so much fun. Have you ever joined a marriage? You tried that yet? Where you join an existing marriage? He's offering you to join their marriage. Yeah, I swing through.

52:41This will be your emotional support marriage. She'll move in with you. She just wants me to get the fuck out of the picture, I think. Kristen will be a third you deserve. No. Not even. Not even. Well, Sarah, again, I'm incredibly grateful that you came all the way out here to see us. I love your book and I proselytize about it. I think it's phenomenal. I think it'll blow people's mind. It's so honest. I have a question. Yeah. What's the most thing that you like about it? You're not going to be destroyed or dominated by unfortunate events. There's no self-pity in your story, even though you're entitled to a lot of it.

53:20And I like that. And I actually think that's a pretty good message for younger people to be reading currently. True. But it's like, I have to work at this all the time because I'm fragile as my mom. I'm fragile as people in my family. So I am always trying to remember who I am, who I am innately. But sometimes it's a struggle. You say things like this in the book. I almost got my ass kicked for being a pussy. I love it. Yeah, I wrote down. I don't know where I got the balls. Like there's no thrills. Strange shooter. Strange shooter. I almost got my ass kicked for being a pussy. It sounds like my mom.

53:56That's just not what you're going to read from like a brand new movie star right now. But that definitely sounds like the way you chat. Yeah. It's authentic. That's what's so attractive. There's a pressure on people to have dealt with their own trauma in a very accepted way. And I like when people don't deal with their trauma that way. Mine was active like yours was. There was violence. There was addiction. Couldn't be more grateful. Ultimately, I'm in this house with this woman and these two kids. I wouldn't change a thing. Right. It's golden. She's definitely the better half. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

54:24I don't know about that. I also think it's really helpful for people to know you as Cher and who's so strong and, sorry, iconic, and also know that you were controlled, that you were in positions that you shouldn't have bitten in. It's helpful for people because I think they think, oh, she's so strong and she just whatever. It's good to hear there was hard stuff along the way. I think that's helpful. This is how I think of myself. I thought of myself as a bumper car and you hit the wall and you either hit the wall and stay there or you hit the wall and come back and you go that way. Who would you like to see Kristen with?

55:03If you got to pick from every available bachelor. Oh, they don't even have to be available. They can be some taken ones if you want. Who would be your dream partner for her? So I know you think she could be better and I don't disagree. Who would be your pick? I don't know. Brad Pitt maybe? She's self-deprecating right now. I just want to know who she thinks your dream catch would be. There's some people I have that I think are good. You've never thought about that. No. She just, I just like her. She's not sold yet on me. She's not sold yet. Well, you don't have the relationship that we have. I don't have the talent of either of you guys.

55:36So, I mean, that part is. No, but the truth is, I trust her. So, you must have something that I don't see. Yeah, there you go. We're pulling that clip, by the way. That's incredible. Yeah, that's incredible. But Reese Witherspoon said that, too. She said there's something about a smart, strong, awesome, funny woman. If they're with a man, you're like, there must be something to that man. Absolutely. There is. There's a lot to this man. He's tall. No, I'll tell you the thing that you should like about me. Okay. I'm not threatened by her shining. I love it. That's true. The shinier she gets, the better.

56:10Alexander is that way, too. The more I shine, the more he has fun. That's beautiful. Guys who polish you. So that's my offering, I would say. Guys who polish you so you shine more. You sometimes tease me. You know what I do is I have my burlesque wigs still on a head and I have one of those sticky things in the closet. And sometimes I go in there because it's a very expensive wig. I brush it and Dex goes, you playing with your dog? Did Renata make it? Yeah, of course. Don't be silly. It's a very expensive wig. Yeah. And I always say she's playing with her dolls. What do you say? You're playing with your doll?

56:39$5 ,000? Wow. Yeah, I'd say five to seven for sure. Yeah,$27 ,000. Lace front, fitted. She was the best one that ever lived. Yeah. That's awesome. And you got to comb it. You got to once every six months, you got to go in there and spend some time combing. Yeah. Play with your doll. Play with your doll. Well, Cher, I adore you. And I understand nobody's good enough for her. And I expect that to be your reaction. Trust me. He's a slow burner. You're going to learn to love her. Yes. Almost too good for me. And you seem like a good dad. He's the best dad there ever was. I've been on a good show when the guests are here.

57:09That's not a show. That was the first hug I had given my daughter in two years. That's not true. Just because you were here. I wanted to impress you. You haven't even seen me with my shirt off yet, which you'll see on the way out. That's pretty premium as well. All right. I adore you. Thanks for making the time. Okay. I'll get you on the next one. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

57:37I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica comes in and tells us what was wrong. You know what's really funny about this studio? What? It's almost the exact same size. Yeah. But we are about 18 inches further apart than we are in L.A. Oh. Can you feel that or no? Weirdly no. Like you're distal. Really? You're distal. Can you even see me? I can't. That's what I was. Let me put my glasses on. They're reading glasses so they're the opposite. Don't put your glasses on because you know I feel like I look better when I'm a little fuzzy. Better from afar.

58:12I look best from afar. Happy birthday. Oh, thank you. It's my friend's birthday today. It is. It's not a very fun age. No, it's a good age. Well, just there's a landmark 50. Yeah, I know. Which we had. Yeah. That's over. No more 50s. That's right. And then 51 is just like, okay. But, okay. I was talking to, I don't remember who about this, but they were saying that there's kind of a mental trick where you feel, you should feel kind of young when you're at the early stage of the decade. So like 51, 52, you're young. Okay. When you're. 54 is when we got to start sounding the alarm probably. No, like 57.

59:00Okay. Okay. Okay. But it works in all decades. So like right now I'm 38. So I'm like feeling old. Yes. But I'm about to feel young again. You're about to be a young 40 year old. Exactly. Boom. Yeah. Optimism. What are your thoughts about turning 40? Yeah, it's weird because a lot of my friends from home, from Georgia, who is of my class, are turning 40 this year. Not me, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Were you a year younger than everyone? Well, I was born in August and I started kindergarten when I was four. Oh, my goodness. A little baby. Wonder kin. Yeah, you are a wonder kin. But you turned 39 in August.

59:39I do. Okay, so you got a year and eight months. Yes, I have time. But I feel... From my perspective, 40 feels great. Yeah, I feel good about it. To be turning 40 sounds wonderful. The only thing, of course, that is a little scary is kids. I just saw on Instagram this woman's pregnant. She's 45. She's the right age. She's in her early 70s. Early. So she's young. I was just telling the girls on our vacation, we were kind of, well, A, Delty was saying how she can't wait to have a baby. Yeah. Which, yeah. Of course. She's going to really, really do it well. Yeah. Yeah. For people who don't know, our life is a traveling circus of Delty's stuffies.

1:00:27That's right. The bulk of our luggage as a family is her stuffies. And now there's, I've already forgotten the names of them. Liberti? No, I know Liberti's name. There's a new class of toys that are these 3D printed things. Oh, I know. Yeah. And somehow she needs a lot of those. They're cute though. Sure. But they're tiny and they get lost a lot. They're trinkets. At least Groot we had, like when we were trying to find Groot at the Monster Jam. Oh, shit. You're like, okay, he's a foot and a half tall. You can get an APB on the guy. Yep, that's right. All points bulletin. Guy's about two feet tall.

1:01:01Yeah. But these are microscopic. Anyways, there's that. And then do you know about Fuggles? Well, I learned about Fugglers because I took Delta on her shopping spree. Mm-hmm. That's our tradition for her birthday. And she wanted Fugglers. Yeah, fuckload of Fugglers. I cannot with these young, the young generation loves ugly. But I did too. Really? You didn't have that? Well, we had Garbage Pail Kids and they were the most collectible thing of my whole youth. And they were ugly. Yeah, it was like Fatsy Nancy. You know, these are bad. These are outdated. They're old. They're old. Gay Mike. No, that wasn't one.

1:01:45Oh, God. But it could have been. Black Sarah. Oh, my God. You don't know it was the 80s. Oh, no. Oh, no. No, they were terrible. Do you not know? Do you know? I only know, like, maybe you've talked about them, but I don't, I didn't collect them or I don't really know about them. That's probably the only thing I got obsessed with as a kid where it was like there was first edition but by the time I got into them they were already on second or third edition so you really wanted these first edition ones my cousin Jamie had all of them he was pretty good at giving me doubles anyways oh that's nice when all that is is like I look at these fuglers and for people who don't know what fuglers are they're these little stuffed animals and they have like human teeth in them they're ugly but they're cute I mean literally they're ugly that stands for fucking ugly oh is that what fugly oh you're right fuglers fugly's from the movie mean girls oh yeah and it's fucking ugly but fucking ugly i guess i'm gonna go with a competing brand called buffuglies and what are they gonna have well this is a butt fucking uglies so is the butt human flesh yeah they're a little you'll harvest we'll harvest some human yeah well i guess the original fugler was a woman who made this little creature and put real teeth in it real human yes why I wonder where she got those.

1:03:04Where does one get? So I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt that she wanted to preserve her children's baby teeth. Oh. I've decided this. So she made this little creature to put the teeth in there, but then people - Loved it. Loved it, I guess. So now fugglers that you buy, they're not human teeth, but they look like human teeth. This is probably one of these overnight, this person's probably a billionaire. I know. Because we had to have all the fugglers and we got fugglers for everybody. Yeah. This episode was brought to you by Fugglers. Please sponsor us, Fugglers. Yes. Anyway, so she's saying she wants to have a baby.

1:03:38And I said, when do you think you'll have your first child? When you turn 18? Oh, okay. And she, I want to be supportive of whatever. Sure, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't want to plant any seeds that I'd be judgmental or whatever. And she said, no, 18, what do you think I really? And I said, my guess is between 35 and 45 is when I think you'll have kids. I said, and I think, well, if you want to, we'll freeze your eggs when you're 18. You know, like. Wow. I love it. I'll pay for you to get your eggs frozen so you don't have to think about that. Yeah. That's lovely. Because your issue is just when you started freezing eggs, right?

1:04:19Like, had you started at 14. Well, I think you might have to be a certain age before you even had your period. Yeah, yeah. No, I don't know because I've never like looked. You didn't look into it. Yeah, I didn't look into it. So maybe I always had a low count. I do think the earlier the better. Yes. And I think, look, acknowledging all lucky privilege, obviously this is an option for most people. But I think given where it's the trajectory, it would make the most sense. I think they're going to be wrestling with the same thing every woman is. Like you're going to want to do your career or whatever the hell.

1:04:57So anyway, all to say she was like, no, that's great. That's too old. Again, she's 11. So that probably seems like 80. Yeah. But who? Yeah. Ouch. She's thinking mid 20s. OK. OK. That's fine. Whatever. I think whatever she does is going to be great. Yeah, me too. But I do think she's underestimating what mid 20s feels like. Yep. I think she is. And how much fun particularly she'll be having. It's just so fun. It won't be time for her to be in the house every night with the child. I was thinking about that sim like eight minutes ago because I just arrived. While we were recording? Okay, 80 minutes ago because I just arrived in Nashville and came from the airport.

1:05:45And I don't know why I was thinking this, but I moved to L.A. when I was 22. Oh, really? Yeah, and I never thought about that. I always think like, oh, I've been there 15 years or I've been there 16 years or whatever. And then I was like, oh, my God, that was a big move. That's a big deal. 22s are babies. Yeah. Yeah. If I know a 22-year-old now and they say I'm going to move across the country, I'd probably say, whoa, that's a big deal. Yes. So I was proud of myself. You should be. Yeah. I know. Similarly. Hi, Shneekly. Come on. You can sit here. Hi, Aaron's here. Can you turn that other mic on?

1:06:24Hi, Jeff. That's Jeff. So, disappointingly about Jeff, he's from New Orleans, but he doesn't have a Cajun accent. Jeff. Jeff. And I was on the verge of boring him with the story. Do you remember, Aaron, when you and I, we went to, Aaron and I went over Christmas, probably senior year, to, we just wanted warmth. We pulled out the Rand McNally map because there was no internet. Right. And at the back of the Rand McNally map, it had a chart with monthly average temperatures for cities around the country. I remember this now. Yeah. And we just looked in the warmest place in the entire graph in the contiguous U.S.

1:07:07was Corpus Christi, Texas. Yes. Yeah. So we're like, let's go there. It'll be warm. Oh, boy. We drove to Corpus Christi, Texas. We got there. We're like, what is this weird place? It was pavement. Have you ever been there? I don't think I've been. Okay, mind you, this was also 92 or 93. So no restaurants, no coffee, nothing. But was it warm? It was like a banking dish. It was nice. It was. It was warm, wasn't it? So we were in that city for a full of an hour. Yeah, it's just cement and no businesses. I can remember sitting on the cement in front of the bank building going like, what are we doing here?

1:07:44Like we just drove for two days to get to this cement. But you still had fun because you guys are friends. Well, then we got out the Rand McNally, Monica. Okay. We're like, what are we by? And we were by Padre Islands right across - South Padre. The bridge from Corpus Christi. But I think we were in North Padre. South Padre. And we ended up on this section. There was federal beach for like five miles and like state beach for 10 miles. And you could drive on the beach. Yeah. And we drove the car there. And this is where we had our, we brought Speedos with us. Micro brief underwears. Oh, sure. You've seen the pictures.

1:08:19Yeah. Have I seen pics? Of us at the beach in our micro briefs. We also have winter gloves on. Sure. I think you've seen it. Erin's posted it. We can post it for this episode. Zach's hitchhiking with a winter glove and a bikini bottom. A little blue bikini bottom. I don't even know why we needed to do that stuff because there was really no one there. I know, but that's how you guys have been operating your whole lives. I know, I know. It's just for each other. It's very pure. Very pure. okay all to say we then were there for a few days we met the weirdest cast of characters who live on these beaches and they go from the federal beach to the state beach back and forth and they live there all year long but you can only be there for 10 and 5 days respectively so they move back and forth Volkswagen buses and what not yeah drinking beer that kind of stuff jellyfish all over the beach that popped when we drove these squirrels that was memorable like when you're driving it's like eww wall to wall jellyfish eww an infestation it's like the packaging bubbles you're driving They're like dead and inflated.

1:09:19Ew. Do they have blood? Not that we saw. Their blood's jelly. It's clear Pepsi. Ew. Then we were like, let's go to New Orleans. The best. We had never been. So we crossed Alligator Alley. We're getting kind of close-ish. Again, no internet, no phones. Yeah. Go over to a gas station, ask a guy how to get to Bourbon Street. Yeah. And I was in there for like 12 minutes and I came out and I got back in the car and Aaron goes, did he tell you where to go? And I go, no idea what he said. Sure. 12 minutes. Down and back to the red thing. Uh-uh. We're over there in Myanmar. And yeah, I just came out. I'm like, we got to go to another gas station.

1:10:04Yeah. Yeah. It's such a unique place. I love it there. I haven't been in a while. You love it? Oh, yeah. You do. We went in college. It was so fun. I'm going. When? To do the Isaacson's Tulane. Remember, he asked me to come to his Tulane Book Festival. Tulane Book Festival? Yeah. And I'm going. When is it? I think in March. I want to go. Go to the book festival. I love books. You love it. You love to start books. Yeah, I do. I finished a book, though, over the break. You did which one? It's called Heart the Lover. Okay. It's a very popular book right now. I bet Ruthie's read it. Did you read it with your eyes or your ears?

1:10:42My eyes. Yes. That's how Ruthie reads. I can't read with my ears. I'm deficient in that. But I finished it. It was really sad. It was. And it made me feel melancholy. For the holidays? Yeah. Well, okay. Great. Just for... Just what you want. Yeah. I did think when I finished, because last time I was home, I finished a book, Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, which is my favorite book I've read in the past decade. And that also made me feel so melancholy. It did. And then when I finished Heart the Lover, I thought, I shouldn't read. Yes. Well, you should read a different genre for sure. But reading has a way.

1:11:24Maybe a Jack Reacher book or Tom Clancy. I'm not that interested. Harbin Corlin. Wait, Harbin Corbin. Reese Witherspoon's partner. What? Yeah. They wrote her book together. But no, I think books are the medium that cuts the deepest. Yeah. Yeah. Don't you think? You can like form your identity around a book, not a movie. Yes, exactly. Well, I did form my identity around a TV show and a movie, to be fair. That's true. You were susceptible, though. I guess. I get it. I'm just sensitive to art. Was it you that was telling me like most of your music you discover from TV shows? Yeah, yeah. I do have to say one funny thing about my birthday before we move on.

1:12:10Yes. Well, we don't have to move on. Well, let's move on. It's already been indulgent. No. But Kristen had written me a birthday card that was on my sink when I woke up, which was lovely, or after I meditated. And it said, like, happy 52nd birthday. And I thought, oh, that's kind of a funny bit. Just be off by one year. That was definitely a bit. And then I got into the interior of the card, what was written. And then we went back to being 52. Uh-oh. And I was like, she definitely thinks I'm 52. Did she tell you? We've since talked. Oh, okay. I read the whole thing. Then I got busy talking to a neighbor.

1:12:47Then I came back into the bathroom and she was in there at the time fixing the car. Changing it. Changing it to one. And I go, hon, did you, you got my birthday? You got my age wrong? And she's like, well, I did the math from 74. Oh, it's like, that's the wrong year? And I'm like, that's the problem. Yeah, I was born in 74. your neighbors came over and I came over and met them. And, and we were sitting there and, and they're like, Oh, it's his birthday today. And I go 51 baby. And Kristen goes, no, 52. But by the way, I'm going to drag her a little bit. I mean, you would remember last year was my 50.

1:13:25That's mine. That's more my, if you like, if you can't keep 57, 56 straight, duh, I probably won't be able to either, but just last year was 50. I thought she was doing a bit with me, too. I will say this. I, for some reason, that birthday party, like your roller skating party, feels like a really long time ago. Does it? Yeah. I don't know why, because this year went by very fast, I think. Yeah. But a lot, I think a lot happened this year. I did, too. And I'm having a lot of what you're explaining right now. There are many events. the award show season is the one right now where I'm like, we were just at these award shows with Kristen.

1:14:06Oh, sure, sure. Because I guess probably Emmys is the latest one. Yeah. And then what is that? That's in the fall. That was sort of recently. Is that in the fall? I think it's in like September. Okay, so probably I'm getting a little confused by that. So yeah, there's all these different things where it's like, well, that feels like that was two months ago. Yet then there's an event that was on the day before that does feel like two years ago. Yeah, I know. Time is all scatty rapid. Yeah, it's very topsy-turvy that way. Can I tell you guys now that we're on the subject of the awards? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:14:40Okay, so this will be out on Monday. Happy New Year, everyone. Yeah. Happy 2026. Even year, it's going to be a good one. It's going to be a good year. I feel it. So we're going to the Golden Globes. So exciting. Yeah, next Sunday. Yeah, this Sunday. Tomorrow. Yeah. And I've been on a real ride over this break. So I have, I've been really humbled, but humbled to the point where I just like, I felt worthless. Okay. So it's a real hot, you know, it's a real game you're playing. It is a rollercoaster because of course it's so, it's so incredible that we are nominated that we're getting to go. Like enough already happened.

1:15:23Exactly. It's already incredible. First year podcasting. It's so special. It really is so special. I'm so proud of this. So I'm trying to get a stylist. Okay. And I cannot get one. It's a busy night. For the life of me. And I really started like, I was like, oh my God, I am so worth, I'm ugly. You're bottom of the barrel. Oh, you went ugly? Of course. I'm like, I'm so ugly. No one even will like get near me. What if that's how stylists did it? They like, oh no. They looked at pictures of the people. I think they might. Do you think? I think they might. Do you think they'd rather sit home without a job?

1:16:10That was my point. I'm like, don't these people like money? I don't understand. This is a job. But I think there is a lot of politics and there is a lot of like - But also it's just the busiest night of the year for stylists. And they already have clients and they're already working with clients and it's like, it's last minute. And that's what I'm being told. Yes. Okay. But in my heart. But for me on the outside, I'm like, girl, this is your whole, this is like me hiring someone to tell me how to motorcycle the ride to the Globes. What? No, I got that covered. I know. So that's okay. But that's also part of it.

1:16:45If there were anything you couldn't get help with, this would be my pick for you. That's right. Yes. But I did think like, but, you know, it just got so big in my head. I was like, I have to look so good because I do care. I care about fashion and I want people to say like, oh my God, she looks great. And a stylist does do some things I can't do, like tailor perfect. Like they know things like that. The finishing touches. Exactly. The accoutrement, the accessories, the jewelries. At one point I was like, I have a dress. I do. I have this vintage dress that I love and I think will be great. I just had this incredible image of you.

1:17:29And do you remember when she dresses up E.T. in that grandma outfit? There's just like so much stuff. I just pictured you on the red carpet with like seven necklaces. Three purses, a bunch of pearls, huge earrings, a crazy hat.

1:17:47I should do that. I should just throw in the guy. You should look up the picture and dress exactly like E.T. with the grandma. I really should. At least that would be funny. And I'll come as the little boy in the puffer jacket he wore the whole movie. Oh, yeah. That would be cute. That would be so cute. I'll carry you in a milk crate. Like on the front of the bicycle. We'll be rolled up on the fucking right carpet on bicycles and you were in a milk crate. dress as that dress as that dress as that oh my god that would be so great anyways so so now I'm going on my own but not really so luckily and this is truly a miracle okay but it makes sense so there's a designer that I love an amazing designer Brandon Maxwell he is an arm cherry oh thank god Brandon thank god for Brandon thank god yeah So he had DM'd me like years ago and said, you know, he loved the show and I could not believe it because he's amazing.

1:18:54And then he popped in my head, of course, when all this was going on. I was like, should I just reach out directly? You're not really supposed to do that. You're not. Like these stylists go to the designers and then they, you know, it's a whole thing. Sure, sure. And I was like, well, I guess I have to. I got to hack the system. That's what I do in my life. Yes. You just got to keep plowing forward. Exactly. So then I DMed him and he said, I heard on the podcast. Congratulations. That's amazing. I was going to reach out to you. I'd be so honored. No. Yes. Oh, yeah. And so he is going to provide me an incredible dress.

1:19:30It was just really, it was very, I felt like I really needed that little boost. Send him E.T. as an inspiration photo. I will. No, it makes sense, though, that it would, of course, be an arm cherry that came through. Yes, of course. Of course. Like, that's what gave me all of this. Yeah. But I really went on a real ego ride. What days were these? Were these, this was before Christmas or post-Christmas? Oh, the whole time. The whole Christmas. Yeah. When did you hear from Brandon? This morning? Like, three days ago. Three days. So you've had a good three days. You're back. Yeah, I'm back. Okay.

1:20:05Okay. How was, let's quickly go through a little bit of Christmas morning. Okay. In Georgia. How was it? It was really nice. My brother and his girlfriend. You met your brother's girlfriend. I did. And she's lovely. What's her name? Her name's Emily. Emily. Shout out Emily. She's so good for my brother. Uh-huh. You know, she's like, she's very cute. She's kind of, she's easy. Anyway. So yeah, Christmas was, was, was lovely. What about you? Erin, did you get anything nice? Yeah. Yeah, I got a t-shirt that said, really great station. Ruthie got him merch, official merch. Yeah, and I was like, wow, this is actually the nicest t-shirt I think I've ever had.

1:20:52Isn't it nice? I agree. That one in particular. I put it on, I'm like, okay, now this is like next level. The quality is so good. And the color and the whole, you know, having had living in Georgia during that time. Like I was like, wow, this is like full circle. It is. Yeah. Yeah. I love that shirt. And as Murphy's Law would have it, I have two of them. And both of them I've done where you get one of those weird oily stains. You did it already? To both of them. I'm positive. You're going to do it. Yeah. I think that was my first worry when I put it on was I'm going to do something to this. And I even when I was just grabbing two shirts to come here for two days, I didn't grab it.

1:21:41Yes. Because I was thinking of all the eating we might be doing. Yes, that's smart. But instead I'm wearing a white shirt. Like I don't care about that. We can throw that in the trash. Right. I mean, that is true. I'm always when I put it on, I'm trying to evaluate. wait, do I care when people have a little oil stain on there? Right, it's fine. I can't decide if it's even a thing or not. I think it's fine. Because I love that shirt. You have to keep wearing it. I guess it's going to be impossible not to get an oil stain on it. In these games we play, you're nailing something so on the head that I play these weird games.

1:22:11Like, I could get, I presume, unlimited numbers of those shirts. There are merch. But I'm not. I'm dealing with the two that are stained that I've had for two months now. Instead of pulling a new one out. And then I definitely wouldn't bring it, like you. Like a new shirt I love. I better not bring it. Anything I like, I try not to use. That is so funny. I do. Anything I like, I don't want to use. Yeah. I've like ruined my Ted Segers hat from sweating so horribly in it, playing pickleball, washing it the way I shouldn't have. And instead of grabbing another one out of the box because it's our merch.

1:22:48Because you have thousands. Yeah. I fucking hate it. and I put it on my head once in a while and it's not right anymore. But I still won't grab another one. What is that? It doesn't sound familiar to you, does it? I feel like it's the shared childhood. Yeah, it probably is a scarcity mentality slash like, ugh, I messed up so I don't deserve another one or something. There's probably something about deserving. Our guilty conscience. Yeah, exactly. And we don't. We don't. We do deserve There was ever a question You deserve the merch of the brands You invented Yes, I'm not sure about that I do want to say one thing About time My dad retired Already or coming up next week?

1:23:38He retired on New Year's Eve It was his last day He had to do his exit interview And today's the second He's probably in the deepest depression He's been in his whole life I think Monday will be a little hard harder. What's he going to do Monday morning? So, okay. Well, this is of course my dad. He is going to do some contract work. Yeah. So he's going to go back to work. So he's basically doing part-time work. Sure. That starts a new job Monday. Yeah. Well, at the same company, at the same company too. He's basically just like staying. Yeah. But it is a big deal. I mean, he's about to turn 72.

1:24:12He's been working his whole life. He's so spry. In my mind, he's like 60. I know I agree I know I hate he kept saying I'm 72 and I was like I don't want to hear that stop that stop saying it yeah and then it was so funny on New Year's Eve right when the ball dropped he was like I have Medicare he was so excited that he he now has Medicare for him it's it's a way he's been he's been working the system his whole life right it's like he's been saving for retirement his whole life. His plan is coming. It's here. To fruition. Which to me. That's what's dangerous about life. Continue. Yeah, because to me, I would, if I did that, if it was like, oh my God, and I'm saving for Medicare and I'm saving, and then it's here, I would be very depressed.

1:25:02It's like, not only did I work and my work identity's over, it's like I work towards a thing and now that's here now. And this is the thing. Yeah. This is what it's like to have all your ducks in a row. Yes. You have done it perfectly. How does it feel? And then you're like, oh, it's fine. Exactly. It's just another day. It's all a mental trick. I know. But because he's retired, I want the world to know that he has a little more time to spend on the sim. Oh, so things could really. It's going to be a big year for my family. So he needs to make some time. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. If you dare.

1:25:50okay so now we have a new fun thing for mondays which is we get to do the fact check seamlessly that's right that's right we're so excited about this so this is for Cher my mom it was funny because um I guess my mom loved Cher oh okay growing up that makes sense yeah yeah you know she said, I saw you were editing Cher. And she was like, how was that? I told her, I was like, you know, Sunny took all her money. And she was so shocked. And then she, you know, she was like, yeah, from the outside, when they got divorced, it was so sad. Yeah. And she's like, you just never know what's really going on.

1:26:27And it's so cool. They continue to do their show after they were divorced. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, they did. Yeah. And was she like real young? Yes. Oh, yeah. She moved in with Sunny when she was 16. 16. Different times. Yeah, exactly. That was a lot of the episodes. She's got a story about like fucking Warren Beatty when she was 16 and he's like a 30 year old man. I don't know the age. Oh, that's a fact. Oh, it is. Yep. Okay. We can do it now. So Cher was born in 46. You can do fast math on your birthday. Okay. 46, 4, 80. And she's 79. She was born in May of 46. Oh yeah. Guess I'm like she was born yesterday.

1:27:01And Warren was born in March of 37. Whoa. What was her year of birth? 46. They're not as. Okay. Nine years. So he was maybe 27 or 26 and she was. It's not as much as I was expecting. That's not too bad. That's all right. We can certainly live with that in the 60s and 70s. Yeah, I know. Really different time. Yeah. But what was funny is she said, she was like, it was a different time, but I did have to lie and say I was 18. So it was like, they still, she still knew, but she was kind of saying you had to lie because the men wouldn't fuck you unless you were 18. Yeah, or have you around. Because they thought you were like baby-ish.

1:27:44Or just it was illegal. Depending on what state you're in, maybe. I even grew up in an era where it was like, check, well, A, okay. A, okay. And then B, like, how old is she? Check her license. That awareness of like, is she really? that stuff was going on even in the 90s we were watching last night Beverly Hills Cop 2 with the whole crew and all the little kids and Lincoln goes in the middle of the movie was every guy in the 80s a huge pervert and I go well we still are we just are much quieter about it now but the movie you forget it's kind of like when I watched Chip with them the other day and I'm like oh I'm so perverted I didn't think I was as perverted but now that they're watching with me I realize that but like yeah there's just these random scenes like uh like yeah let's uh let's find the pussy let your dicks do the walk in wake up dick they're like let your dick point you the way point away it's just like a big blockbuster summer movie yeah and that's how we were how long does it take you to shave those legs yeah you need me to be your groomer i'm offering my grooming services He just met her.

1:28:53Hot. But let's. Get a lot of cashmere that way. Yeah. Speaking of your movie, your movie situation at this house, last time you were doing Tom's Tom Cruise's Cruises. Yeah. And I was going to text you that my family went to Tom, did Tom's Cruises Cruises, but it was short lived. Uh oh. Um, because the movie we started was Eyes Wide Shut. No, that's not a family movie. Why did you guys pick that one? Because when I was flying home, I was listening to a podcast and someone said it was their favorite Christmas movie. Oh. And I was like, oh, and I was like, I've never seen it. I know it's sexual, but I've never seen it.

1:29:39And if there's, if it's Christmassy, like we're going to watch it. So that night, me and my mom and my dad turned on Eyes Wide Shut. And I. It's a porno. It was a literal porn. Orgies. Everyone's so naked. Yeah. And I'm sitting there with my mom and my dad. How's that feel? And it's like, this was a horrible mistake. And I was like, I am old because I'm not that uncomfortable. Oh, good. Yeah. I was like, okay, I don't like this. This isn't recommended. But it's tolerable. But I can. Because at 18, you would have died, right? Oh, my God. Yeah, your dad would have died. Well, actually. My dad probably would have left.

1:30:24He might have left, yeah. I will say no, now that I'm a dad and I'm older, the stuff I thought my parents thought they didn't think. Yeah. Like, I'm not uncomfortable. Really? No. Yeah. Maybe he wasn't. They're like these, your kids are these, like, they're a whole different category of humans. Yeah, I get that. I don't know how to explain it. It's just like all that stuff I thought maybe my parents were uncomfortable at the same time. They weren't. You're just your dumb little kids. And then they grow up, but they're still your dumb little kids. But not the other way. You're, for kids. Your kids are mortified.

1:30:59Yeah, you're like, oh, I don't want my dad to be watching this. Nipples. Exactly. Sexuality. What's he thinking? Yes, acknowledging, I guess that's my point. That's how I can simply say it. Acknowledging your parents are sexual is deeply creepy. Yes. Acknowledging your children are sexual is not. Right. It's not a thing. It's like, oh, yeah, they're the little human creatures and they're going to be sexual. That makes sense. And they're going to have boyfriends and that's all exciting for them. Yeah. It's not creepy. Yeah. But your parents are like, oh, God. Yeah. Did you ever hear your mother making love?

1:31:30Yeah. Oh. You did? Well, they lived in a very small... Oh, yeah. oh yeah and aaron's mom's so fucking sweet too she might be the sweetest lady i've ever met oh my god my mom said uh she listened to mom's car oh okay or watched it on youtube and um and she i talked to her you know we don't talk often she and she said she started crying and she said I am so sorry that I didn't for childhood pretty much and I was like where does that come from and she goes I listened to your episode and I was like I don't even know what we said but then I was asking Ruth she goes I think you guys were like talking about butch and I was like oh for fuck's sake Would you ever guess she would be listening to that?

1:32:33Yeah, I know. But yeah, I would never guess she listened to it. And then, duh, she listened to it. If my kids are on a podcast when I'm older, I'm going to listen. Yeah. But they shouldn't listen. I deal with this with my mom, but I'm in a really lucky situation, which is like I often. In fact, the only person I'm reading my memoir to is my daughters and my mom. That's nice. Yes. In. She is going through a lot of that stuff. I can imagine. And I'm just constantly going, Mom, like, I'm fucking I hit the lottery. Whatever the recipe is, I'm so happy. Yeah. I literally don't say any of this. Right.

1:33:14Regrets or sadness. It's just like, well, here are the facts. Yeah. But we've had we've been going through that a lot for like two years as I'll like write certain events and then I'll read them to her. it's kind of I think kind of good because then we have a good hour chatting about it all and her reaction I wonder what your mom's is my mom's is just like mostly yeah wow all that happened and it feels like 10 lives ago and I can't really connect all that and yet I know that all happened and I'm like yeah same it doesn't mean anything it's just what it is yeah I never want to talk to my mom about anything.

1:33:53Yeah, that's just like pretend. I know. That's one of these things, yeah. Because then you kind of end up feeling guilty and it's like, well, I don't want to feel guilty about this. It's like, it's a weird cycle that starts happening. Yeah, what you really want to say is like, well, what's just the truth? I have zero resentment against it. Like, I have no ill feelings about anything. Yeah, I'm just like, that's cool, man. We all took a wild ride together. Well, so you guys are parents. So you could, I assume, imagine that if you heard your kids talking about some horrible stuff, you would also want to say, I'm sorry for that.

1:34:36Yeah. True. Yeah. So maybe it was good for her that she got to say that to you. Yeah. You know? It's not like she doesn't know. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. For sure. Yeah. Maybe it was a good outlet. And I think she's been able to say, like, I'm really sorry. And I'm like, yeah, you don't need to be. Yeah. Yeah. You were fucking 22 years old. I know. Two kids. It's a lot. Yeah. Share. Very on topic. It is on topic. You would love her book, dude. Yeah. I think I might have already told you this. I loved it. She talked about a wild fucking ride. Get through it. Yeah. And she's been an adult since she was nine years old.

1:35:13Yeah. Okay. Okay, so Prim, Nevada. Remember she said Prim? I brought up her mom's boyfriend was a man with the last name Prim. Exactly. Who owned a casino. Right. And I thought maybe he started Prim, Nevada, the whole town. Uh-huh. But she didn't know. So the casinos and resorts in Prim, Nevada are primarily owned and operated by Affinity Gaming, though they were originally developed by the Prim family, Ernest and Gary Prim. It's gotta be it. Right, yeah. Gary Prim. It says who the town is named after. Mm-hmm. Okay. That's cool. I looked up, are you born with your temper? Oh, okay. Because she said her dad had like no temper, so she could relate to him kind of because of that, because the rest of her family has a big temper.

1:36:03Yeah. It says you're not born with a specific temper, but you are born with a temperament, a baseline for emotional reactivity that's influenced by genetics around 20 to 60%. and shaped by your environment and learned behaviors. Meaning some people have a natural predisposition to frustration or strong emotions that can be managed or worsened by how they're raised and experience life. I have a bad temper, I think. Yeah. You're like real bad? I have a bad temper, I think. Crickets. I don't know. Do you? Sure. I'm easily frustrated. I'll say that. Yeah, you don't have like temper Well, no, you have your tantrum Those are fun tantrums Playful tantrum But I don't think I get angry That fast Maybe I do I don't have a thought You can have a thought It's your birthday, so you get to be whatever I have none I'm evaluating you real time With you as you explore this I have a short fuse What I think is your mercurial that's worse no mercurial sounds cool it sounds cool but it is bad no it just means that you have a lot of ebbs and flows in your yeah uh disposition yeah but mercurial is like this is funny we're going too long but i gotta say i i couldn't not observe it i think there's so many funny gender things i just constantly see them and then as i enter different age groups i see the gender thing play out differently, but we went to this very special place in the Bahamas over the break and everyone's well-to-do.

1:37:43And I just was observing, I think men, men just, we just don't want any emotions. And we're so afraid of emotions and we don't know what to do with them. And then we get resentful at you if you have them. And so we're constantly, if we're in a position to, we're trying to create the perfect environment where everyone will be happy, which can't happen, obviously, but you think it can. You go, well, take everyone to where it's warm and it's a nice house. Clearly everyone will be happy for six days. And that's of course not the case because you can't buy your way into just being in a good mood. No, you can't.

1:38:24So I'm experiencing that, but mostly I, then I get distracted by noticing, oh, all the dads here are everything. It's like, I'm watching a table with a meltdown happening and I can just see on the guy's face like, fucking Amy, I fucking brought everyone here and the food's good and it's sunny. Why is everyone so upset? I do that too. Do you do that? So I pay for it? You think you can create the perfect situation where you'll control really what I think as a guy you're trying to control is just no emotions. I know. You want loved ones. I like loved ones. I know you guys only want the good ones, but it's just, that's not real.

1:39:03It's not how it works. And can I, I mean, I actually, I can't say this about Aaron because I've never seen it. Yeah. But you have negative emotions. Never. Yes, you do. And they come up and they affect people too. And that's life. And it's okay. Yeah. But vacation should be perfect. I know. That's why we went there. We all declared this was going to be a perfect week. I know. That's the compact. But look, that's also your expectations. Like I was crazy sick. I still am a bit sick. But like with my brother to New York, you know, really, really sick. Yeah. But no one heard about it. You know, I wasn't laying in bed and people were bringing me things.

1:39:41And I wasn't like, oh, my God, I'm so sick. But, you know, some people got a little feeling less than perfect on the trip. And it's just like a big event that they're sick. I know. Is that not a gender thing? No, I actually think. Oh, there's men that are. Yeah, I think men. I kind of can't handle being sick personally. But I think just because you don't share that you're sick doesn't mean other people shouldn't say that they're sick or get taken care of. Yeah. I also you're with your brother. So that's probably why. Neither of us knew how to take care of. Yeah. But if you are home, you get taken care of.

1:40:20People do try to take care of me. Yeah. For sure. I don't do well with that. Yeah. And I try to minimize you seeing that I need any help. Right. But you're right. It's probably just me. It's probably not male, female. Do you like being taken care of? Well, I wish I could lie. Don't lie. But I can't lie. It's been getting pretty ridiculous. I like to be taken care of. Yes, good. Aaron, good. I'm glad you're saying that. It's a good feeling. I mean, it's limited to one person I'll complain to, but I'm like, yeah, kind of been turning into that a bit. Oh, good. It feels good to have someone take care of you.

1:41:06It feels safe. It's nice. Well, and I've always, well, like I've always been taken care of by Dax. Yeah. He's always been the caretaker who can't show weakness. He can't receive. I don't know how to take care of him. ever. I think you allow me to help you sometimes. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It might be harder for you to. It's becoming clear. It's just my issue. It might be more of a male thing though. You might not be able to receive help from a male more than you probably can receive a little more from women. Yeah, that's definitely true. Yeah. I've never liked it in the past, but I definitely like it.

1:41:50I've seen it get out of control where I'm like, I'm like, oh, you're not feeling good either. And I was like, well, I'm not here to do the taking care of. Yes. I do think a good chunk of mine is like, no, no, we're all in an agreement. We're in a social contract, handle your business. And like, I don't want to receive it because I suck at giving it. And I'm like, don't give it to me because when it comes time to give it to you, I'm going to suck out of this and I don't want it. Even though you're not going to suck at it because there's no way of sucking at it other than just saying like, are you okay?

1:42:28Do you need anything? That's all you have to do. That's what's crazy to me. Yes. So women are great at that. My thing is like I can't fix it. I know. I don't know that you're going to be. Everything I need to say, I don't know if it's true. I don't know if you're going to be okay. I don't know if you're going to feel better tomorrow. Well, you don't have to say you're going to be okay or you're going to feel better tomorrow you just say how are you and then i'll go like can i get you like can i do anything to help and they'll say but i know there's nothing to do to help it feels like shit you're gonna feel like shit for five days it just it just means something that somebody is thinking of you and somebody's like wants to whether they can do anything they want to that's exactly right yeah and that's the hurdle i have to get over yeah this i had to get over 18 years ago with Kristen.

1:43:15She was like, we should go to Africa this spring. And I would go, well, we can't go in spring because you're doing that movie there and I'm doing blank. Oh, that's the reality of it. And I don't want to be promising you we're going to Africa in spring when I know that's not possible. So I'm so literal and I have such a fear that I'm going to disappoint something. You know, I've promised you something. So I'm not going to do that. Because of your mom. And then after a year or two that I realized she just wants to know, I'd like to go to Africa in the spring with her. That's what she really wants to know.

1:43:51Like I, we should go to Africa in the spring. Yeah, we should. Okay. And that's fine. Yeah. And when I had to learn and trust is she's never going to be mad at me come spring and say, why aren't we in Africa? You said we were going to go to, that's never happened, but I had to learn that that part's never going to happen. So now I can be like, yeah, let's, she'll go like, let's go to such and such tonight. And I'll go, yeah, that sounds great. And in my head, I'm like, we're never going there tonight. I know this thing's happening at four. We'll never make it. Okay. The other day she's like, oh, they did a pop-up of the Home Alone pizza shop in, on Ventura Boulevard in Studio City at what pizza place, Prince's Pizza.

1:44:30Okay. They did it. They made it look like the Home Alone pizza place, which again, I don't even know what the Home Alone pizza is. I guess they're just ordering pizza. They don't have a pizza place. They order at the beginning. Oh, so they make it that place. Okay. And Erica took the boys and everyone had a great time. So this is Friday night. Yeah. In LA. Yeah. And Kristen says, and we're going to go to a party at seven or eight. We're going to drop the kids at the Hanson's. She goes, let's go to this pop-up at six before we drop the kids at the Hanson's at six 40. Sure. And I'm like, not a fucking chance.

1:45:03Yeah. We'll drive there in rush hour. But you say yes. I said yes. Wow. I go great. That is gross. We drove there in rush hour. We got there and lo and behold, there was the line two blocks long. Oh, no. You did drive there? Which I knew would be the case. It's Friday night in LA. But you went? A week before. First by the Hansons anyway. Oh, that's true. That's true. It wasn't like completely. I knew. I'm like, okay. I'm going to say yes. Let's do it. I go, great. Let's do it. I'm like, it's not going to happen. Wow. But I go, but we'll be in the valley. There'll be other places to eat. We'll get drive-through.

1:45:37We'll make this work. But I was smart enough just to go like, yeah, let's go. And we went there. It was everything I thought. It was a two-block line. Kristen goes, oh, fuck this. I'm like, yeah. And I already know. That is actually real growth there. I am impressed. It's hard. I haven't done that yet. That is hard. And then I just, what's suspicious is I go, oh, well, let's hit Sharky's. Like clearly I decided two hours ago, we'll be able to hit Sharky's. No one will be there on Friday night. And it's right by the answers. I just, from the set, like as she was saying that lines long, I'm like, let's just go to Sharky's.

1:46:11Cause I already knew we were going to end up at Sharky's. But that's because you, you know her. That's very individual. You've adjusted. And what did she wanted to know is that her partner was excited to try this fun thing she heard about that could be really fun. And she's with someone who wants to go do that. And I got to give her that. Right. And the outcome was all the same. We didn't go there. We didn't wait in line for two hours like I thought. But you drove there. But we drove there. Yeah. That I have. That is impressive. That would be hard for me. I don't think I could do that. It's hard.

1:46:44It's hard. I would have to say the reality, which is like, okay, but there will be a line. So we either have to go really early or probably won't be able to go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm impressed that you can do that. That's very impressive. Color me impressed. Well, this brings us all down perfectly to New Year's resolutions, which do you have any? I have two. And then this is one of them. No, let me hear it. One is just continue. I'm not going to crack it this year, but I know and I've already vocalized it like we got to not be affected by the emotions of other people. We got we got to fucking get on this like it's a job this year.

1:47:21Yeah, I like that. So this is front of the mind. Like, you're just going to let everyone have all their emotions. But do you get to do you? So in that case, are you able to have any like when. Don't need them. No. Spoken like a true dad. Well, it's the expectations. It's just having the right expectations, I guess. Yeah. Yes. True. Had I thought we were going to go there and walk right in and get a slice of pizza. And then we got there and then it was two hours. And then she did want to. I mean, luckily, she didn't want to wait in that long. Well, we couldn't have because we had to be at the party.

1:47:55Yeah, exactly. Yeah. um okay then and then sprints oh yeah i'm gonna do sprints once a week this year okay the worst when's the last time you did a sprint a long time i just decided if they're hard on the knees they're hard on everything i'd be terrified yeah i just tear everything but you know don't you know intuitively like oh if i can run full speed i'm in good shape yeah like if ever there were one signal of your fitness is like can you run as fast as humanly possible away from an animal that's pretty important do you got to work up to a sprint like yeah i'm thinking of and this is even a long time ago but i baseball fantasy camp it was before that but it was just the softball like a bar league yeah and i was so excited to play some ball yeah you know i'm drinking and i'm everything else and i'm uh not stretching and not doing anything i fucking cranked the ball my first at bat.

1:48:54Sure. And I take off like a son of a bitch and just tore my hamster. Oh, yeah. On the way to first base. Yes. And I had to be the catcher the rest of the year. Oh, no. And have a pinch runner. Like, today's going to be day one. I'm going to do six 30-second sprints. Wow. 30 seconds? That's long. That's what I keep reading is the magic number. But can you maybe work your way up? 30 seconds is probably like a 200 meter run for me. I don't know. When we were kids, remember Brooke? He did the one lap, like a quarter mile in like 59 seconds. I remember. Bill Booker? Bill Booker. Junior high. That was his last name?

1:49:42Yeah. And Brady Tucker. Those two were the fastest motherfuckers. Brady Tucker was built. They were like tigers. Sliced alone in eighth grade. Wow. So muscular. Yeah. Anywho, so I'll probably run at like 70 % today. So I don't tear anything. Yeah, don't on your birthday get hurt. But within four sessions, I intend on running as fast as I can for those 30 seconds. Wow. I hope I won't rip anything given that. Just stretch. Make sure you're stretching. Really stretch. I hate stretching. I also tore my hamstring in high school. I don't stretch. I don't stretch ever. No, the older you get, You have to start stretching.

1:50:19I believe in a warm-up, but I don't believe in a stretch. I think stretching does negative things for me. And I know pickleball and everyone laughs at it, but I walk into where we play pickleball and every fucking asshole is doing the most stretches. You have to do, Aaron. I'm like, give me a break. You guys. I mean, come on, right? Let's get real. I play every day and I don't stretch. I shouldn't have said that out loud. Yeah, you're going to rip something. You're going to rip something. Exactly. Okay. My new year's resolution is stretching. It was? It wasn't. But it might be now because I do want to stretch.

1:50:56No, you need weight training. Yeah, I do. I have to get back into that. Your farmer carries. I did do some accidental farmer's carries over the break because of shopping. Oh, sure, sure, sure. And that was, I was carrying a La Crusade and all this other trip. Did you do any jogging this trip? Because you generally jog on your trips to Georgia. I normally am very good at exercise when I'm home and I was not. Yeah, it's okay. I need to do my exercises, but I will. That's, yes, that is a resolution to get back in a routine, a workout routine. And I had another one, but I forgot it. I feel like it wasn't obviously that good.

1:51:38More mercurial? No, I guess less mercurial. I don't know. Oh, well, one that we kind of talked about on the Christmas special is I want to get, I want to have a looser grip on change. Right, right, right, right. I want to accept change more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not be so scared of it. So, yeah. All these things are the exact same thing, by the way. Control. Funny enough. Yeah. And also just this, like, if you could start by telling yourself, like, I'm not going to die. Like, okay, she wants to go to this pizza place. There's no way it's going to work. but at the end of that, no one's going to shoot me in the head.

1:52:17I'm not going to be in pain. Like things won't go my way, but I'll be just fine. That's hard for me to believe. Right. That if I don't get my way, I will be upset. But it's not even, okay, I'm going to give you a little something here though. That's not get your way. That's do something you know is not going to work out. Yes, yes, yes. That's different. That's true, that's true, that's true. It's like you're entering a situation that you know is doomed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that I think is hard. But also it won't kill me. It won't kill you. No, it's fine. If I can just get to the part where it's like your control.

1:52:55So it's like they're doing this and they're doing, you know, whatever the thing is that's stressing you out. Yeah. And you're like, yeah. And then I'll also be fine. I know. It's it is also sort of cousins to getting taken advantage of and things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Like they don't respect my time. They don't, you know. But again, we know it's like none of it's that deep. No one's even thinking about us. Well, I know, but then I don't like that. But that's a thing. Yeah. I don't like that there's zero thought about the other people. Who did Phil Spector murder? He murdered actress Lana Clarkson.

1:53:34Oof. Finding her dead from a gunshot wound in his California mansion in 2003. He was later convicted of second-degree murder and sentenced to 19 years to life in prison, dying in custody in 2021. Oh, he's dead. Yeah. Can you visually picture what he looks like, Monica? He's insane looking. I'm going to look around. Google a picture of him. Can you picture Phil Spector? I sure can. The same hair, dude. He looks the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Scary. He looks scary. Why is his hair like that? Yes. He looks like a murderer. I can't believe how many women he worked with. Wasn't he? yeah I can Tina yeah I think he did all that he he was doing Sonny and Cher and yeah all the Motown yeah I can Tina yeah you're right John Lennon the wall of sound that was his yeah wall sound good job okay you said 100 you you were giving her like credit for all the stuff she did and you said 100 million albums, which what's the, I'm kind of confused.

1:54:38So she sold over 100 million records. Yeah. But I think albums means like how many you're putting out, right? No, albums, records, same. Same thing? Yeah. Okay. Was that number right? Over 100 million records. That's fucking crazy. I was just, I saw this over the break. I saw a list of the top 50 rap albums of all time. Okay. What would you do off the top of your head? Like, what do you guys think? Who's leading that? Um, like a single record or artist? Yeah. It was like per album, like number one rap album of all time sold. And I'll give you a hint. It was like, I think it was 51 million copies.

1:55:17Eminem. Boom. Eminem was five of the top 10. Oh, wow. Jay-Z wasn't, he didn't show up on the list until like 40. I think his biggest album had like 7 million. I was saying to Kristen after I read that list I was like the industry is weird like Jay-Z's a billionaire and he's in 38th with only one album on the list and I was thinking like what you're really talking about is like the monetization of cool and cachet like it's so weird Jay-Z doesn't have these 50 million but we all know he's the coolest motherfucker to ever do it and so if he has clothes I want those and if he has this like it's just interesting how you can skin a cat.

1:56:01The respect that comes with some people. Yeah. It's worth a lot. Yeah. Like MC Hammer's above him. Right. In like number eight or some shit. Yeah. You know. No one's wearing those pants. No one's wearing those pants and he's not a billionaire. Yeah. I still say proper though. You do, yeah. But I mean, it is, to me, the reason I picked it is because white people listened to Eminem. White people isn't a... They listen to all rap. But not all white people. In certain areas, they don't. And they would listen to Eminem. So I feel like he was really universal. I remember thinking... I remember when his album came out, the first one, which was 99 maybe?

1:56:50Or close to that? 2000? Mom's Spaghetti? My name is Slim Shady Yeah, yeah And the real Slim Shady Yeah I remember being at the Detroit fireworks Like in a sea of craziness If you remember Yeah, yeah I think that was one of the last years I went I was like, why do we do this? It's people get shot It's dangerous It's like, and you can't escape Anyway, so I remember that song or that album was playing everywhere and there's barely white people at least where i was and i was like wow yeah he broke through the weirdest thing about eminem is like a i think he probably is the most skilled out of all them white or not his his his his poetry is off the chart like his rhymes are so yeah and kanye yeah yeah they're so abstract yet work they're so complicated the things he's rhyming don't make sense like i think he's next i think he might be skills wise but he was never for me like i can i can totally appreciate the mad talent but i never owned an eminem album yeah and i'm not sure why maybe because in fact in this case he was like I don't want my rappers to be white.

1:58:18I'm getting it to get a glimpse into your world. And I love being able to get this authentic glimpse into your world. It's like, wait, this dude grew up in Clarkston by me. Yeah. Did he grow up? No, he grew up in Detroit. Okay. Yeah. Wow. The movie, I guess. All right. We really did it here. Okay. Okay. I think that's it. Yay. Happy birthday. Happy New Year and happy birthday. J2C. J2C. J2C. All right. Love you. Love you. Love you.

1:59:05Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.