Chris Stapleton

21:45Oh, wow. And gave him his telephone number. So I was back and forth from there. And I think I was probably back home with my parents, helping out there doing something. I don't know what I was doing. I floated a lot in my early twenties. So I just called this guy. I said, hey, I write songs. He's like, cool. Send me a few things. I said, okay, well, here you go. And I just sent him some things, didn't think anything of it. And a couple of weeks went by and he listened to it. Steve always likes to tell the story that he called and my mom told him, well, he's fishing. He'll have to call you back.

22:12He's gone fishing. Yeah, he's literally gone fishing. But I called him back and he said, hey man, this stuff's pretty good. Maybe you want to come down and hang out and write. And so I came down back and forth for a couple of months and met a few people and it seemed like a good thing to do. And I had zero money. So I bombed a little bit of money off my uncle, got down to Nashville and had about maybe a month's worth of living expenses off when I bumped off of my uncle. How soon before Seagale? I had a publishing deal in seven days, which is not anybody's story, but that's mine. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

22:45How does it work? So you've submitted some songs to Steve. He introduced me to people, to Frank Rogers and Chris Dubois, who ran this publishing company called Seagale Music, which was an EMI co-venturer at the time. And then I met Liz O'Sullivan, who was a plugger there. That's the person that kind of pitches songs around. You know, I don't know how much you know about it. I don't. Liz was a big advocate of mine. And then there were a couple other people that I met, a guy named Pat Finch. He ran another publishing company. And those guys kind of all got interested in me. And Liz Sullivan would call me every night, go, hey, you just got to come over here.

23:14Just come over here. And it was a co-venture, so there was no opportunity to really own any of your catalog like it was at some other places. There was less money. The piece of the pie shrank for you. There was no ownership, really. But it was more important to me to be working with somebody that believed in what I was doing. Yeah. And I said, well, all that other stuff will work itself out. So I wasn't worried about the money. So they go, okay, we're hiring you. You're under contract with us. And we want you to, what, do they like deploy you? Like go meet with this musician? Liz orchestrated that too.

23:43She's setting up these veteran guys that you were talking about that I would get in a room with. Yeah. Were because of her. She knew these people and they'd give some no-name young guy a shot. Get in a room, see what you got. Yeah. What is the protocol once you're in that room? And how are you supposed to know how it goes? That's my question. Like you've written by yourself. I'm going to learn. But I don't say that going in. I know how to write a song by myself. Right. And that's where you have to sit back and see what role you can play. Where am I valuable in this? This person is a better guitar player than me, or this person's a better singer than me, or this person is obviously a better writer than me.

24:15What can I bring to this? What is my role? Maybe I can go make the coffee, and that's my role. You did this for 10 years. You wrote 1 ,000 songs in these 10 years. You wrote six number one hits for huge musicians. So it all worked out. But when you walk into a session with, let's just say, Luke Bryan or any one of these guys you had hit, do you come in with a song? I'm not necessarily always writing with artists. Nashville's unique in that it's a songwriter community. Yeah. More than, maybe not as much as it used to be. I'm not in that down there everyday mix like it used to be. It's probably more L.A.

24:50track guys now or something. But you go in a room and it could be just two guys that write songs and be like, what do you got today? Not pointing at anything. It's a clean slate and you just kind of see what comes. So you haven't come in with anything? I would rarely come in with anything. Okay. I don't know if you're supposed to come in like, I am five. Listen, I have endless blabbering in my phone. Voice memos. Voice memos and typing shit down that I don't know what it means. Most of it's useless, but maybe five years from now, I'll probably go, oh, well, I can use that for this. Yeah. Yeah.

25:20Well, I was kind of blown away to learn that Higher, which ended up on your album, 2023, that was 21 years earlier you had written that song. I wrote that song probably the first year I was in Nashville. So maybe more than that. I moved to Nashville in 2001. So at this point, 25 years old. I think sometimes it's better if they're old. Because if you still like it and it's that old, it's probably pretty good. And then this is nosy, but I'm just, again, I know nothing about it. I'm so curious. When you're working with Seagal, are you just on a monthly stipend? You get paid a salary and that's a recoupable salary, you know, against royalties.

25:59Anything you end up making in the future. Yeah. And you're also a contract worker. You're not an employee. You don't get health insurance. No, you're a contract worker. And that's a year to year thing, whether or not they pick up options. When did the leverage switch and you started getting ownership? Well, you just negotiate those things when you contracts come up. It's contract negotiation. Okay. I always like terms better than money. You know, terms are always better than money. Terms are better than money. What does that mean? The ownership things or reversions. Some guys want, pay me as much money as you can.

26:25You can keep it all. Up front. Yeah. Roger, roger, roger. When it moved so fast, it was like seven days and then you have this. Were you shocked or were you like, yeah, I am really good at this? No, you just feel lucky because you know that that's not everybody else's story. You can walk around in Nashville and there's 50 ,000 guys trying to do that. It might take somebody five or six years or more to get a first publishing deal somewhere. Yeah. And now that's based off of social media some way, they pick up some TikTok person. It's a little different. Yeah. One great song. And then we hope that they've written another hundred or so or can write another hundred or so.

27:00Who knows? Of Kenny Chesney, Josh Turner, George Strait, Luke Bryant, these are all guys that you worked with and ended up writing number one singles with. How did those sessions vary? A lot of the songs you're naming worked the way that I described it. I wrote them with some other dude. They heard the song and they recorded it. I didn't know those guys necessarily. Okay, great. So you can go to them, done, without you meeting them. Yeah. I can imagine this being a very frustrating job. I would have a hard time writing the thing, then that person gets it, and it's number one, and everyone is giving them accolades, and it's like, but I wrote it.

27:39Is it hard? I mean, not when the check shows up in the mailbox. It's just fine. Wow. That is the opposite ego. When I found out that you could have a job where you could sit in a room and make up things on a guitar, I thought that's the greatest job I ever heard of. And I think I know the distinction between why it's different is he wasn't trying to be yet the star of the movie. It's not like the writers in Hollywood are pissed that Tom Cruise is getting action. They're like, yeah, I'm a writer who writes scripts and this movie got made. And if you wrote the Tom Cruise movie, you're psyched. As a writer, you're psyched.

28:09And you're just a music writer. And so you're writing hit songs. You're doing the exact thing you were hoping to do. That's true. Yeah, you're winning. And so when you start Steel Driver in 07, so I guess you've been here at this point for six years, what is the motivation to do that? One of the guys that I wrote songs with was a guy named Mike Henderson, veteran guy, great blues player. He was in a band called Mike Henderson and the Blue Bloods, if you ever want to check that out, or also King Snakes. But he's a guitar slinger, such a musician. Incredible guitar player. He's passed away now. But I wrote probably more songs with him than I did anybody else.

28:41And he and I both really liked bluegrass. And as he would have put it, we had these perfectly good songs sitting around going to waste, but there were a bunch of like bluegrass murder ballads. Luke Bryan's not going to sing. We're not pitching those to like commercial country radio. He wanted to get a gig at like VFWs or something and just a weekly gig that we could have a band and have fun just for fun. I think all good bands start that way. Yeah, yeah. It's just for fun. We started playing standard songs, but we have these other songs that we can play this way. And then we started playing that way.

29:11We got a few more gigs, and we wound up having a deal on Rounder Records, which was a pretty good acoustic label. And they did really well. The Steel Drivers did great, right? Yeah, they did really well, and it was a good time. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking your phone's battery before heading out. That'll get you every time. Of course, your phone dies on the way to meet someone, leaving you wandering around quietly panicking about being in the wrong spot.

29:46Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary. Subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate, North American Insurance Co., and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. We are supported by Intuit TurboTax. You know that feeling when you drop your taxes off with someone and then nothing? you're just sitting there wondering if they've even started if there's a problem if you're getting everything you're owed it's like sending your car to the shop and never getting an update that's what i appreciate about turbo tax with turbo tax expert full service they've completely transformed that experience you get matched with a dedicated tax expert who actually does your taxes for you and here's the part that changes everything you can get real time updates on your experts progress from start to finish.

30:34You can literally see when they're working on your return. No more guessing, no more waiting by the phone. And if you have questions, you get unlimited help from your expert at no extra cost, even nights and weekends during tax season. They're focused on getting you the best possible outcome in every dollar you deserve. My dad loves TurboTax and he's a meticulous man. He doesn't cut corners. If you're not going to trust me, trust Ashok. Visit TurboTax.com to get matched with a TurboTax full-service expert today. That's TurboTax.com, only available with TurboTax full-service experts. Real-time updates only on iOS mobile app.

31:17I think that made me a better writer doing that. I learned a lot from the guys in that band. They were all session people and pros. I learned how to be in a band. But I also took a pretty big hit. and songwriting income because I was touring. Right, you were losing money doing that. I was losing money playing that game. Yeah, yeah, that's tricky. But I do feel like it made me better at both of those things. It felt important and it felt like something to do. It was stressful for my wife. I guess there's two ways this could have happened to you, right? Like we interviewed Ted Danson and his analogy, which I love, was in his life, he feels like he's been sitting in the back of a pickup truck.

31:53He's not looking forward. He's just kind of like things are happening and the environment surrounding him and these opportunities are coming. But in his mind, he wasn't steering the wheel. And I'm curious, did you just accidentally end up a lead man? 100%. I moved to Nashville to be a songwriter. So at no point did you go, okay, we're switching gears. I'm only writing for me. It just happened. I still probably won't do that. You still won't do that. I don't write a lot anymore. And I do get calls from people to write with them for things, which inevitably winds up being, hey, will you also come sing on this thing?

32:23You know, like, okay, well, okay. But I really love the role of getting in a room with somebody and writing for their thing. And I enjoy just the exercise of walking in a room with somebody and going, what are we going to do today? What are we going to pull down out of the sky and put the antenna up and see what happens? Yeah, does it get you kind of charged? Like, is there a fear that's also present? I don't have any fear. Zero. Oh, wow. That it won't come? I'd be so scared of that. He's Bill Murray of country. Wow. He just knows it's going to happen. He just takes a deep breath. I don't know that I know it's going to happen.

32:55I just feel very able. Yeah. You're confident. This is what you fucking do. More than anything else. I know if I can't do anything else and I can't do a lot of other things very well. There's a lot of holes that come with being able to do a few things pretty good. Yeah. Sure. Some blind spots. Yeah, some blind spots in your personality that come with that. I'm kind of interested in the blind spots. What are your blind spots? Personality-wise, would you say? Personality-wise? Yeah. I don't like deadlines. Okay. Okay, okay, okay. Almost don't believe in them. Well, Sheriff, you have a song that comes out 21 years after you wrote it.

33:29Deadlines are hooey. I used to say there's no such thing as a country music emergency. We're not performing brain surgery. No hearts on ice. Yeah. People can get really elevated about things that we do. And certainly I did have someone say to me one time that we have a healing component in what we do for music. And that's important. And I took that to heart. But there's not any real emergency. Yeah, if the song doesn't come out in August, no one's dying. It's okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I'm not great at deadlines in that way because I prefer something to be right over it being done, what I believe to be right.

34:02Do you feel a little bit like a psychologist? You sit down with a virtual stranger, I'm imagining a lot of the times, and you're trying to get a read on their personnel. And you want to help fill in what they're lacking and then lean on whatever they're strong. Like, is there a feeling out period where you're trying to figure out what's the best approach to work with this person? I don't know, man. I just kind of show up. You just showed up. That's half a life I can. Yeah, I do think that. I think half a life, or at least the way that I have gotten to live, is showing up. Must be present to win, I used to say.

34:33Yeah, I think Nashville's a much more special place than people broadly know. I think it's a really supportive place. We're all rooting for each other. If your buddy got a number one, you're like, that's great, man. Congratulations. The Broadway people are so kind to each other and supportive. And comedians are not. We're the worst. You know, fucking stand-ups are all hate each other and they're jealous of each other. So like when I see these creative places where people are genuinely rooting for each other, I think it's special. I don't think it's everywhere. Well, maybe not. It works a lot better.

35:02The rising tide raises all ships. Yeah. What prompted you to leave Steel Driver? One of the guys in the band developed a fear of flying. Oh, fear of flying. Wow, that's... I didn't see that coming. I'm still waiting for addiction. That's generally what brings a band down. I had an opinion about what we needed to do, and everybody else in the band had a different opinion, so they got somebody else. Oh, wow. Please, wait, hold on a second. Over a fear of flying? Fear that wasn't even yours? Were you fired? Is that what you're saying? Were you kicked out of the band? Technically, yes. Technically.

35:33Oh, no. I didn't read that in Wikipedia. That's a regret for them. Well, that's not—I probably shouldn't be saying that out here, but that's technically the truth. Were you hurt? Well, sure, but I also didn't believe that we were... Setting the right course. Right. And so I was like, okay, I'll do something else. Then you form another band. The Johnson Brothers. The Johnson Brothers. Yeah. What's this thing where you don't capitalize the T in your bands? Are you an E.E. Cummings fan? Why aren't we capitalizing the T in these bands? Because the Steel Drivers, it's the Steel Drivers, right? Man, you've already thought about it more than I have.

36:06Yeah, the T's not capitalized. Interesting, but the S and the D are? They are. And guess what? the T is not capitalized in the Johnson brothers either, but Johnson and brothers is capitalized. Wow, that is scary. You have no awareness of this? Chris, how could you not notice that your T's are not capitalized? You think it's a typo? I think maybe it is. I don't know. It wasn't intentional. There was not a lot that was intentional for me and a lot of what I've done. You seem very peaceful. Yeah. Boy, I wish that were all the way true, but I try to be. You seem very content. Content might be elusive.

36:44What are you wrestling with? Did you do New Year's resolutions? My New Year's resolution was to simplify. I have a tendency to be complicated about everything. What version of complicated? You're overthinking everything? Definitely that. I weigh out things very deliberately and in long and arduous ways that annoy my wife, who's very impulsive and can very quickly make decisions. You're kind of indecisive? I prefer the word thoughtful. Yeah. Okay. I like that. Well, what are we trying to head off? What fear is driving some of this overplanning and overthinking? Making mistakes. I don't like to make mistakes.

37:21Okay, I hate to be an armchair psychologist, but is this from the stern dad? I'm sure it is. It could be. I mean, valedictorian, all of these things. No, you're like an overachiever. But at the center of that could be a bunch of different things. You're an overachiever because you don't think you're worthy of love. If you're spectacular, that's kind of my thing. You could be an overachiever also because you got punished for failing. There could be a lot of different motivations. I don't know if I ever got punished for failing. Not by anyone but myself. Do you beat the shit out of yourself? Sure.

37:54Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good hobby, right? Is it? Yeah. I mean, it's time consuming. It definitely takes up a lot of time. You must acknowledge anyone who's going to sit in a room by themselves and solitary and focus and do that repetitively. It's a personality type. A lot of people can't sit by themselves and dedicate that amount of time. No, a lot of people are uncomfortable with that. Yeah, I think it's unique and it's really common among musicians, I think. And it's really counterintuitive because you're seeing these people that are like, they're playing in front of 90 ,000 people.

38:28You think they're kind of an extrovert. That's what's presenting, but you realize what gets you there is actually sitting by yourself in a room a lot. It's almost like opposite. what the result is. But you're sitting by yourself in the room for the 90 ,000 people. That's me throwing that out here right now. Yeah. Do you think you have any isms, any conditions? Sure. I'm not a doctor, so I can't diagnose any of those. Well, perfectionism, it sounds like, is at play for sure. If you can't make mistakes. I mean, I can make mistakes, and I do make many, many, many mistakes. But they're painful for you.

38:59I don't like to. You can't leave here without a diagnosis. Okay. What ism do you think that I have? Well, I don't know. You're not giving me a lot to make my theories. It's part of my charm. Let's acknowledge that. I think it is part of your charm. Do you have a hard time opening up? Oh. Maybe that's an ism. Non-opening up ism? I think so. A vulnerable, maybe it's like a lack. You're obviously vulnerable because your songs are so deep and meaningful. But I think that's why. Yeah, control. We're getting there. We're getting somewhere. We love control. Everyone here in this room loves control. There's some safety in the space of a song.

39:35Because I'm not having to explain it to anybody. And you can apply yourself to it in whatever way you want to. And I think that you should. That's what songs are for. We don't have to talk about it. I can make this thing and you can take it and it can be yours and part of your life if you want it to be. And I'm not going to defend it. It is what it is. Right. And I just wonder where the depth of your music and the range of it and just how much of it there is. If, you know, there's pain driving that. Or no, maybe there's not. Sure. I think a lot of it can be observation of the human condition in general.

40:07You can walk outside and, shit, I passed a homeless dude on the bridge on the way over here. It's not hard to find, whether it's yours or somebody else's. Do you feel like you take on other people's pain? No. Or feelings? Okay. But I also feel like I am not unaware of it. But some people are. And I can view it and try to examine it. That's my job as a songwriter is to try to attach to those things or at least examine those things. and maybe help people find themselves in it. This has been my experience a little bit. It's like, it used to be really results oriented because I wanted things. And those things happen and they're really great.

40:42And yet they're very temporary and they don't fill you up for a very long time. And I think slowly you start hopefully transitioning to like the process is the high. Process is the high. But it's also disappointing when you get this thing, when you reach the moment. Yeah. And you're like, oh shit, that didn't do what I thought it was going to do. And I don't take those things in very well. Like I don't take even the good moments in very well. Yeah. I need to work on that. Do you think the shoe's always going to drop? Oh, sure. That's a Kentucky thing. We have this innate genetic component of, we got to make hay while the sun's shining or something bad's going to happen.

41:18I was raised largely by my two grandparents that are both from Kentucky. They both moved up. You understand that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What part of Kentucky are they from? Hazard. Okay. Yeah. You really understand that. Yeah. Of my grandma's five brothers, one killed another. The other one shot the other, but didn't kill him. And three of them all died in prison. That's the honchals. The fucking honchals are wild. I always say our 10-year-old is clearly 12.5 % honchal because she can fucking let it rip. Yeah. As I said earlier, I grew up in Georgia. I was just there. You're the only artist I know that all our friends in LA are so excited we're talking to you and all my friends in Georgia are so excited we're talking to you.

41:56You unify, you span the gambit. That's not the case. That is very rare. No, people almost let our studio on fire for having Jason Aldean on. I mean, like, well, you know. Some people, court controversy, that's part of their thing. And some people want to discuss things that aren't about music or make that part of their thing. And it's not part of my thing. But you're very universal. There's something about your writing that people really gravitate towards, regardless of their specific musical taste. Like, I don't think all our friends are, like, super into country. Right. But they love you. Yeah, what's right about your music, too, is you can come to it from all these different angles.

42:38So, yeah, like, I have a lot of friends in LA. Our friend Charlie Curtis is just, like, he would fucking cut off many fingers to just shake your hand. His way into you is very interesting. It's, like, definitely he's a very masculine man. He played football at Georgetown and Rice. He's a physical phenom. And like you allow him somehow to be this masculine man who is fucking feeling emotion. I think that's the unique gift you're giving to a lot of men. You're singing the national anthem at the Super Bowl and they fucking cut over and the coach is bawling. Fucking Kelsey's crying. The men are crying.

43:12You're allowing these men to feel an emote. And that's so rare. And that's just a pocket of your appeal. And then my thing with you is I hate to be repetitive of Brolin because he interviewed you and said basically the same thing. Like, you're bringing back for me the only country I loved, which is like outlaw country. When I hear your stuff, I'm like, this dude's male and apparent. That's what you're channeling for me. And then the women are loving you for some other reason. So it's kind of some other way. Unbeknownst to me. The question mark. No, you know, I don't know. Thanks. Yeah, I know.

43:46There's nothing to say to that. That's probably hard to hear. I mean, it's not on purpose. I guess that's my question. Is it on purpose? Are you thinking? Am I thinking about who I'm connecting to? Yeah, or like, I want to make sure I don't. By the way, we think about it. We think about it on this show. We don't want to contribute to the divide. We're here to like show humanity. I think that's an important thing to want to connect to. But I also think in a musical space, my job is to connect to the music and then put that out in the world and let people find themselves in it. Yeah, pray for the best.

44:17Yeah, and the song doesn't really mean anything. No song means anything until it goes out into the world and people hear it and attach themselves to it and find themselves in it or it marks a point in their life. That's it. It has zero meaning until that happens. You have five senses, right? And this thing, music, it's in its own category of you kind of got to call it magic. We have these ears that we're supposed to be listening to predators for and we're going to communicate with. And then there's this completely pointless endeavor. Music. Making noises that we'll be sitting somewhere and crying or laughing or partying.

44:58And you're like, we have this one sense that is open to complete nonsense. There's no purpose to it. It's meant to unify us, though. There is a point to it. The magic point to me is in regards to a certain type of song, but people like sad songs so they don't feel alone. And I think maybe all songs are that way in that we want to feel those emotions together. There's a communal thing in that even if you're driving in the car by yourself, listening to a song and it's hitting you in a certain way, it's still that communal thing. You're like, oh, there's somebody else in the world that understands this other thing that I'm going through.

45:35And so I'm not alone all of a sudden. And I think that is the magic of music. It's not some mysterious thing. That is the magic of music is it helps us all be connected in ways that even a conversation or a look or a touch doesn't provide. I would argue, too, it's the way that we can get emotion from my head into your head the quickest. To me, it's the most succinct, powerful delivery device. I don't think that's true for everybody, though. I think there are people that I've met in my life who are like, I've never been to a concert. I don't listen to music. Yeah. You don't do what? Yeah. I think that's not a value in everybody's household.

46:15They're bad in bed, though, those people.

46:20You shouldn't say to those people, well, you must be a terrible lover. Well, they might be more of a visual artist. They like museums. Sure, yeah. You got to put Sade on when you're a kid in your car in high school. You know, you got to let that do some of the work for you. It's also so connected to memory. Sure. Music. And I think that's also what's so powerful about it. It's the only thing that is capable of transporting you. Right. Time travel. Okay, now I want to talk about Morgan a little bit. So your wife, Morgan, who you've been married to for 18 years, you guys were working both in songwriting.

46:56She actually had a deal on RCA. Oh, she did? Yeah, she was an artist. No, her voice is bonkers. I was listening to you guys sing Amanda. I was pretty shook by her voice. And also what a rad duet for you guys to do. Okay, so she bought you a 1979. She's done this a few times. I only know about two of them, but I'm inclined to imagine there's more. So you loved this 79 Jeep Cherokee, and she found one for you and bought it? Well, oddly enough, I was looking at a Scout that was in Portland, Oregon, and I was going to buy this thing after my dad passed away. And it was gone. Somebody bought it. And I was like, well, I like this Jeep in Phoenix, too.

47:32Let's go do that. And that whole trip was an impetus. I wrote Traveler on that trip. But if we'd have driven from Portland, I might have made a very different first record. But we drove from Phoenix across the desert, you know, and it was a different thing. I don't know if this is apocryphal, but you're driving and the sun's coming up and Morgan's sleeping and Traveler hits you, yeah? Yeah. It was right before we got to Gallup, New Mexico. And so I wrote the whole song driving and then I had to go inside and figure out how to play it when we got to the hotel in Gallup. You're driving a 79 Cherokee.

48:05there's not a lot of other things you can do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Requires your full focus. It requires your full attention and both hands on the wheel most of the time. But she bought you that, and then she also bought you, you have one of Waylon's guitars. I have that too, yeah. That's a fucking nice present. That's cool. If I'd have known you had that painted on here, I would have brought it with me. I was pretty jealous when I saw Brolin holding that. He's my higher power. I just can't get enough. There's something about him, and you know, Robbie Turner that played on our first record played with Wayland in the Highman.

48:37So he has all these great Wayland stories too. And of course, Robbie passed away. You're now the holder of these stories. Maybe. There's a lot better people to tell them than me. Country music is great. That era in particular because those guys were more rock and roll than the most rock and roll guys you could talk about. But a lot of those stories don't exist in the public way because it's kind of this understood rule that they don't enter the public about how rock and roll those guys really were. It was just nuts. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nuts and nuts. They were just nuts and nuts. When I think of what I like about country music, that's the era I like as well.

49:10The Outlaw, Waylon and Willie and Haggard. Yeah, I was a young man. I was like, oh, this is dangerous. It was dangerous, which is weird. My dad loved all that stuff, too. But my dad was like the straightest arrow. I'm just like, why do you love this stuff? It's everything that you're not. And maybe that's why he loved it. Yeah, exactly. It was a real thing. Those guys were real. And Willie Nelson's the real deal. Yeah. Have you seen this show that Mike Judge does called Tales from the Tour Bus? I watched all of them. Every one of those guys shot somebody other than Waylon, I think, in that first season.

49:40But the best part of that, Waylon, Doc, was when they're interviewing, I think, the drummer for the band at the time. And he goes, yeah, we used to have this routine before we go out on stage. We want to make sure everyone's on the same page chemically. So, you know, I'd ask Steve, how many are you on? A four. Okay, good. I'm on four, too. Mike, what are you on? They're talking about meth. I'm on four. Great. Haas, what are you at? Twelve. And Waylon was always 4X of whatever they were on. Not meth, but I do believe in being in the same chemical space. You can't have one guy drinking tequila and somebody else smoking weed.

50:15And another guy shooting dope. You're insane. You're on different musical spectrums. You know, like you're riding different waves. You got to be, you got to keep it the same. I do believe in that. Have you struggled with any of that stuff? Out of 10, what's your addiction level, do you think, naturally? Naturally? Yeah. I'm a nine, just to let you. I'll go first. You're a nine? I'm a nine. Five. I don't ever feel like I have to do something. I just want to do something. Yeah, sure. It's never gotten away from you. No, not really. You don't have the gene. You're our age. You got to quit or not.

50:44I had to quit. It was untenable. I still drink. I still have a cocktail every now and then. You'll have a nice Traveler whiskey, right? Absolutely. Yeah, I'm not here to advertise, but... But I am. I'm really saddened by the fact that I can't drink whiskey because I would love to try Traveler because it sounds like exactly what I would be in the market for. I would have brought something if I'd have thought somebody would want to try. But I'd want to be respectful in space. That was nice. Oh, no. I'm very pro-drinking. I don't want everyone drinking. We wouldn't be pro-drinking. Well, you know, I think it's good for some people and it's not a great thing for others.

51:13Yeah. And you get to see it really up close and personal in the music biz or the show biz. Yeah. And you know who those guys are immediately. You're like, yeah, maybe it's not for you. Yeah, exactly. I enjoy it. But I can certainly get obsessed with things more than I would call it. You know, like nuances of vintage things or weird guitar things. I was going to say, your guitar collection is the giveaway. If you want to call that an addiction, then I'm probably a 25. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I definitely have lanes. I don't feel like they've ever crossed over into a lane where it's fucking my life up.

51:46I'm jealous. Five's the perfect number because it means you've let it rip a lot. Sure. Yeah. You want to let it fucking rip and then not take you down. That's like the sweet spot of it. Well, especially if you don't like making mistakes and you like control. Well, I find those things are a release, too. Well, exactly. Well, I was going to say, you kind of should be an addict because the release of control is the joy for me of being high. I don't want to celebrate being an addict in any way, but I do enjoy getting a buzz. I think that's fun. Yeah. Yes. And a relief. For some people, it is a relief and it's maybe even a stress management.

52:23I'll probably get some letters about that. but in a way that it's like, okay, that's a reset and I'm cool. I'm good for a while. I don't pick it up, any of those things, to cope with anything necessarily. It's more of an interest or something I enjoy. One of your hobbies. One of my hobbies. One of the few, yeah. Martinis are one of my hobbies, so I get it. What's your martini go-to? Hendrix Martini, Lemon Twist, no vermouth. Okay. So when she's over, that's what you got to serve her. You got to have all those things. I'll take a whiskey. I'll take an old-fashioned. What was your whiskey before you had your own?

52:55My favorite was E.H. Taylor. Grand Pappy's, what is it? See, the reason I got in business with the Sazerac Buffalo Trace people, they make all that stuff. They make E.H. Taylor. Traveled to the same master distiller as Pappy Van Winkle and Dweller and all that awesome, rare, you know, hard to get. There was a Pappy Heist. Did you see this? I watched a doc on this. Yeah. Millions of dollars. I worked with those guys. Oh, right, yeah, so you would know everything. I don't know everything, but they talk about it. They're like, yeah, there's an inside job. These fucking guys were kind of thing. They were draining the barrels and filling them with water.

53:26And there's millions of dollars of this crazy rare. They take it very seriously. Some of it takes 25 years to make. It's a long game kind of thing. It's very cool. And it's very old world. One of the closest things we have in this country to this real heritage thing coming from Kentucky. It's culture. It's American culture. We got whiskey. We got hip hop. We got country. Yeah. Yeah. We got a handful of things. Yeah. Jazz. Blues. Maybe most importantly jazz. Okay. After you do Traveler, it comes out. It's wildly successful. You are at the CMAs, I think. Is that where you did the Timberlake performance?

54:00Yeah. Okay, so you, and I'm not allowed to say this out loud, but Dave Coe was the other obsession. I've probably seen Dave Coe 15 times. I'm not too allowed to say that out loud. He's a pretty known racist. He's got some rough songs that didn't. Yeah, it's probably not a badge you wear on your sleeve too much. Yeah. But boy, when I was 20 and a drunk, nothing was more fun than going to a Dave Coe show. I went to one. Do you have his book of poems? No. I need his book of poems. Oh, boy. It was like frat boys and bikers. That was the crowd. And I went to the show in Lexington, Kentucky. But on the merch table, he had Dave Allen Coe short stories and poems.

54:40I didn't have the money to get it. And I told this story to a friend of mine that's the Texas Act. And he somehow found this merch book and he sent me a copy of it. So I have a copy of it. I don't know that I've read many of the poems. Kids probably shouldn't read that book. Your kids may keep that up high on a shelf. As weird of a dude as he is, he's also written some wonderful songs. Incredible. No, he's a fucking hell of a musician. Great writer. Obviously problematic. You've heard the awful stuff. Everybody's heard the awful stuff. The one who knows it is aware of him is aware of the other awful things.

55:14Wow. But there are some also very wonderfully written beautiful country songs. Oh, God, yeah. Anyways, he made Tennessee Whiskey very famous. But he didn't write Tennessee Whiskey. No, he didn't write it. He had the first cut on it, and George Jones had the hit on it. Oh, okay. George Jones made it. But I knew it from Coe. I only know the Dave Coe version. But anyways, you sing Tennessee Whiskey with Timberlake. Did you already know him? Did that pairing seem crazy to you at first? I mean, I called him to do it. I had met him. Somehow he saw me on a YouTube video or something. The first time I actually met him, it was his birthday.

55:46And his wife called and said, hey, it's hard for me to find experiences that my husband hasn't had. Would you fly to Montana and play for his birthday party? Oh, wow. And like, all of a sudden, I'm the experience that you're having. And I was like, okay. And his birthday's in January. And your wife's is too, right? 25th, yeah. Dax's birthday was yesterday. Yeah. He told me 51. Or his daughter told me. Okay. 51. I flew up there. I couldn't believe how cold it was in Montana in January. Have you been in Montana in January? Not in January, but I've been to Wyoming. And yeah, it's negative 18. But I'm inside by a fire with battery-powered socks and every stitch of clothing that I've been on.

56:26My bones hurt. It's not your climate. I'm not built for it. Yeah, yeah. Don't let the beard fool you. This is no Grizzly Adams here. Well, I mean, maybe you get used to it. I don't know. We're there for like a day. My wife's with me. We're like, what are we doing here? This is kind of odd. There must have been tons of stars at his birthday party. Well, this is when we get to that. So I think I'm going to play for this party. And so it's time to go do the party. And we get on this horse-drawn Santa Claus sleigh. Oh, wow. And we go up a mountain. And I'm thinking, like, there's grizzly bears up here.

56:57Who knows what we're going to run into? We go to this cabin with no electricity. What? Zero electricity. And we go in. There's one guy cooking on, like, an 1800s wood burning stove. Potmilly stove or something. Okay. Yeah, that's what's happening. He really wanted an experience he had never had. Okay, well, listen, the room, not much bigger than where we're sitting right now. And just a small table. I'm like, what is happening? I felt like I was getting, you know. Getting punk. I was getting punk. Yes, I was like, this is weird. And he was the most famous punk person. He was. He finally shows up and it's him and like his best friend and maybe his cousin.

57:28It's like six, seven people. I play a little bit of music. Wait, wait, wait, wait, does that make you nervous? Like the smaller the group, the more nervous or less? You kind of already said you don't get nervous. You can say bizarre. You need to. Yeah. You were about to say bizarre and you didn't want to offend anyone. It is strange. It's crazy bizarre. But cool. Yeah. Absolutely. I played and then he's like, hey man, sit down. And so I wound up just sitting down and we hung out that night and were friendly. And then we went back to his house and definitely had some whiskey. Yeah. Had some pappy that night.

57:58In fact, there was a cake there and I wanted me to cut a piece of this cake because I'd had a few issues. I went, what are you doing cutting this cake? And I looked at the tag and like Alicia Keys had sent him the cake and I'm like, oh. He's like, no, man, it's cool. Eat the cake. And I was like, okay. And that was kind of it. And we kind of knew each other from then on. And we had talked a little about music. And we talked about doing things together. And we're friendly. You know, we went out to dinner a few times. We had this record. And the CMAs were coming up. We got nominated for a few things.

58:25And they were going to offer me a slot to play. And I was like, you've got to call him and ask him to do it. That's the way you do it. And really quick. So that's my most hated thing in the world is to ask someone for a favor. How easy does that come? I can't do it. but I also knew that she was correct. I said, if there's ever a time, he's going to say no. I was like, hey man, would you want to come do this? He was like, absolutely. So we got on the phone with the producer. Time on television is so precious to these guys making these shows. And Justin with a straight face on the telephone, he's like, we need eight and a half minutes, which is an eternity on television.

58:58Yeah, yeah. And had he not been on that phone call, that would have been an immediate, absolutely not. Yeah. But it was just kind of like, yeah, you guys can have eight and a half minutes. So we got eight and a half minutes for what was essentially my first appearance on that show. Yes. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

59:27Now, did you get nervous for that? No, because we rehearsed two days before and we dug in and we had it dialed. It was the best possible version of whatever we could have done. And I knew that he's so pro and his band and everybody, we all dug in and we were prepared. I've heard this from a few people. We had Anna Kendrick on and she was talking about having to do those troll movies. And she went in one time and she had like a really bad cold. And Justin's just like, here's what we're going to do. I'm going to do this, blah, blah, blah. She was just talking about, to your point, what a fucking pro the dude is.

59:57He's been doing it since he's a child. And he took it seriously. 100%. And he intuitively knows what to do all the time. Spooky. And then this prick is the best SNL guest host of all time. Fuck this guy. He's supposed to be good on SNL on top of all this other stuff. And dance like that and be good on SNL. But, you know, the power of those performances is pretty staggering because also that's the Luke Combs story, too. Luke Combs has this performance with Tracy Chapman. That is a big turning point, yeah, for you professionally, that performance. We spent a long time building the fire, but that threw a match on it.

1:00:30Yeah, yeah, right. We had some shows booked on the West Coast and thousand seat theaters and things like that. We never played on the West Coast at that point. And they were gone like that. Very quickly escalated from that point. Yeah, it's funny how many people have this similar story where it's like it feels overnight on the outside. But you're 15 years into it or 12 years into it and you've had a really substantial writing career. So for you, it is incremental. But from the outside, it's like, oh, wow, this is like a light switch. That is definitely the view to the passerby on the television.

1:01:00Do you think because you had had little tastes of success along the way that by the time this thing came around, you had a little practice? Were you able to take in that moment in the ways that you would like to have? No. And we won a bunch of awards and things that night, too. We weren't supposed to win any of those things. Albums sold$2 million. Like, everything's fucking on fire at that moment. Yeah. It was very quickly just a different ball game. In the moment, there was a lot of celebratory thing backstage. It was a very surreal moment for me and everybody had worked with us. And it's an unforgettable, I think everybody who makes a jump somewhere in their career can pinpoint moments.

1:01:38And that's definitely one for us. Some people handle it well and some people don't handle it well. I don't think I would have handled it well. Had you not been like married and stable and had some practice. Yeah, I was 38 or something. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I know you imagine giving yourself that whole experience at 21 years old or any of the ones I had. No, I'd be dead. Yeah, I'd burn the whole place down in a weekend. Some people aren't meant to handle that. And the universe was looking out for me in that way. But also I appreciate it in different ways than somebody might that was 19. You already made a good living.

1:02:06It's not like you're going to experience money for the first time. You're going to experience a lot more money, but you got to practice with some of the stuff. A little bit. What I didn't get to practice for was people driving up to your house or two or less coming by. That was very hard for me. I was going to say, you don't strike me as someone that would love the fame aspect of all this. No, I don't enjoy that. I don't enjoy it for my children. Do you feel like you should have done the Kiss version? Kiss version? Full paint. Full face paint. Listen, those guys had something figured out. Those guys were marketing geniuses.

1:02:34Well, what you do have going for you is you have this easy top thing, which is you could probably shave your beard at some point and go back to anonymous. That's my retirement plan. Yeah, I think that's a solid one. Do you think you're trying to be invisible with your beard and your hair? in your hat. I mean, I've had the beard and hair a long time, and I'm sure there is some shield aspect. Some hiding. I had a grill blow up on me, and it was protective in that way. So it protected me from fire. Wait, you had a barbecue that exploded? Did it catch the hair on fire? Oh, yeah. It took hair off here and hair all the way off this arm.

1:03:07I had a gap in my beard for a minute. Were you lighting it and the gas had built up in it? I was sleepy, and it was a rental house. I thought I had lit it, and I turned them all on. I was like, oh, shit, I didn't light it. And just filled that fucker. Oh, shit. Yeah. Oh, boy. Loud explosion? Yeah, it was dumb. And then you got to come in and say to your wife, look what I just did. Yeah. Yeah. Now you got to worry about me grilling. Well, then you feel the skin peeling off your face and all that kind of stuff. You're like, oh, shit, I just made a mistake. I wrongly was like, you know, he's got this beard.

1:03:38Anytime someone has a beard, you're like, oh, they're probably covering up stuff. I'm certainly covering up stuff. But I saw pictures of him without the beard. Fucking strong chin. He doesn't need a beard. Like, I need it. This bastard's like, he's just sitting on a great chin. Okay, well, even more reason to me than I think it's an emotional beard. You think it's an emotional beard? I'm going to go ahead and say this. Did you have any anxiety after Traveler came out and it was so fucking successful and you had such a swell? Did you have any anxiety about, like, the next album? No, but I did have an anxiety around just the amount of attention.

1:04:11My goal in making that record was to get to make another record. I had this very indie mentality of like, I sell 20, 25 ,000 records. I can keep playing and I play pretty good shows and the world will be all right. People will never say this about corporate entities, but I have to say this about Universal. I had a failed single before Traveler that wasn't on Traveler. And so I just came to Sydney May, but we went to lunch and I said, hey, can I just make a record? I just want to make a record and put it out and go play. That's how I know how to do it. And she was like, okay. That was allowed. And that's not normal process.

1:04:50It's usually like have a hit single and then you can make a record. And the signal that didn't do well, it also was expected to do well. I signed a record deal and it was a different head of the company. I made a whole other record. Previous to that, the head of the label came in to listen to it, sat there listening to the whole thing. Then he turned around. I love it, but I'm not going to be here next week. Oh boy. And Capital and Universal kind of merged. Why didn't you even listen to it? Because he signed me? Luke Lewis is a music guy? That was a dumb question. But if you're getting fired. I thought it was a really classy move, even though it was disappointing.

1:05:21Yeah, now that I've thought it through, that was the right move. You know, when the merger all happened, it was kind of nine months of radio silence for me, which usually when those things happen, you're like, all right, I'm a goner. I'm going to go back to writing songs. And I was pushing 40. I had promised myself I wouldn't tour anymore if I was 40 and not really making a dent. And so Mike Duncan, the new record label head, comes in. listens to the record. He's like, I don't hear it. And that was just kind of like, all right. Do you agree with him now? That record exists somewhere. It does. Do you think it's much different in quality than your other albums?

1:05:55I made it in a very different way. It was a very built record, more than a live record. I'm playing all the stuff on it. It was a different record. It was where I was at at the time. And I don't know that it was bad. I'm not embarrassed of anything on it. Did it dent your confidence at all or no? I mean, I disagreed. That's the preferred outcome. I'm also aware that his job was to run the business the best way that he knows how to run a business. And if that meant it wasn't for him, I missed the mark. So what happened when you played Traveler? Does he come in and sit and listen to Traveler? Do you get to have like a round two?

1:06:26For some reason, he was out. He would say I kind of went around him. And we're cool now. Like, it's all good. This shit is the same in movies. Like, I directed a movie at Warner Brothers. Right before it comes out, they fire the president. They bring in a new president. The new president is not incentivized for the old president shit to work. Right. He's incentivized for his new shit that he greenlit. And you're like, I'm just fucked. They're not going to promote this movie. Right. It's disappointing. There's a lot of great things that get squashed in regime changes sometimes. And that's just the way that it goes.

1:06:58There's more business happening than people realize. And then the timing of things. There's a great Chris Knight record that came out a long time ago that Frank Liddell produced that I love. But that record came out and then the whole record label shut down, you know, like. Yeah. It got kind of squashed, but that was a great record. It just was unfortunate business timing. Things like that happen all the time. Back to your luck thing. Half the game's luck. Maybe more than half of it. I think it's probably 90 % luck. The better comp is really, I can't imagine. Are you into Formula One at all? I did do a song for that movie.

1:07:27Oh, yes, you did. Oh, shit. That's right. Yeah, you have a song in F1. And I got scared to death. I went to the race in Las Vegas. Why humans want to go that fast, I don't understand it. We were right up on the fence and you're just like, this doesn't feel safe even for me to watch. No, it doesn't feel like physics would allow for this thing to happen. That's what's cool about it. Right. You know, a car can't go around a turn at 190 miles an hour, right? It just did. But I guess it did. Have you ever gotten a car with one of those guys? Yeah. I hosted this show Top Gear for a couple of years. I raced.

1:07:59But did you drive something like that? I've never been in a Formula One car, but I have ridden with several Formula One drivers in cars. and yeah. Oh, he's going into turn one. You're going, well, he ate the farm on this one. Like, we're not making it through this turn. And then all of a sudden you're exiting the turn. You're like, I don't think that can happen. Physics wouldn't allow. Yeah, they're in another level. But the reason I think the analogy is good is like the car, unfortunately, is 90 % of it. But that's not to say it doesn't matter if you're Max Verstappen. It fucking matters. Like, he's head and shoulders above, but he needs that 90%.

1:08:32I think the same is for your thing and my thing, which is like, you got to be Max Verstappen, But fuck, you need the right car. You need the 90 % of luck in friendships and all this other shit. Yeah, the right people around you. I can't say that enough. You've said it a lot. I really, really like it. Yeah, I like it too. I know we were sitting here talking about the individual thing, but I do feel like a lot of what I do might put my name on a marquee or on something else. You're talking about, but you wrote the songs and you're saying all these things, but I didn't record the things. I went in the studio and Vance is sitting there pressing the button.

1:09:03And Dave and my wife are telling me when they thought the take was right. I'm not making things without Dave. Not really. I've also watched you guys talk to each other. And there's definitely some spooky shit going on. We understand each other. And a lot of weirdo. We're brothers in a lot of ways. And so JT and Derek, you know, the guys have been in my band from day one, played on the records from day one. Those things are important. And those things make what we do a lot more special than just my name being on it or whatever I bring to it. The specialness of all those people involved is important.

1:09:33Do you have some guilt about being the name on the marquee? No, somebody's got to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not trying to act like I'm unworthy here and something like that. What I have a lot of is survivor's guilt, which is like I, over the last 30 years, worked with so many fucking brilliant people that didn't get lucky or didn't know the right person on the right day. I was exposed to how many people moved to LA and were talented and worked their asses off. And I have that guilt personally. Or it's like, I don't know, man, there are four other guys in my comedy troupe that were better than me.

1:10:05And I don't know why they're not rich. And it's not fair. It's not. The world is not fair. And not that I think that that's right, but I'll take it. Sure. Yeah, exactly. They're going to give it to someone. I volunteer. I appreciate it. I'd like it to be me. Yeah. I'm sure I do have some guilt about that. Yeah, I don't have imposter syndrome. I just can't recognize that these people are every bit as good as me and some better. And it didn't happen. And it's heartbreaking. That hurts my soul a little bit. Well, but, you know, it's that whole timing thing that I keep talking about. And that's luck.

1:10:33And that's whatever it is that I do or you do or anybody does that gets lucky and successful. We happen to be filling some need for consumers or for the world at large. And that's important, too. You can feel gratitude for that and maybe guilt that somebody else didn't get to fill it. But that was our calling. That's how it shook out. And that's OK. I don't think we have to feel too bad about it. No. I don't feel bad about it. You shouldn't, and I shouldn't, but I do. It's that simple. I run into dudes that are struggling, and I'm like, fuck, dude, this is not fair. Like, you shouldn't be struggling at all.

1:11:07Just two more career-y questions. One is, I think it's interesting that you've gone in and you've worked with Taylor and Adele, and you're on both their albums singing. What is that experience like? Some of these collaboration things were things that happened in COVID. They're me on the other side of an iPhone screen. Yeah. Obviously, you get honored when you get asked to be on anybody's record. It's such a compliment, particularly people who are as well-loved as those two ladies. Did you watch the Taylor doc that just came out? I have not seen it. I did go to that show. I took my kids to that show.

1:11:39Me too. What a fucking show. Oh, man, it was crazy. Every song was the production budget of most people's whole show. Yeah. I know. Mine included. That's what's so cool about the doc is you really get into the nitty-gritty about the show and how they did it. And it doesn't matter if you like her music or don't like her music. If you don't respect her after watching that, go away. No, there's no way. It's an insane amount of work and energy to expend on something, to delegate and to trust and to manage. It's unfathomable. And only a handful of people can pull that off. And she's one of them. The leadership to me was such a huge, it's like what you've been saying about all the people.

1:12:22and how many people it takes. She really highlighted that in this. It was about her, but it wasn't about her. It was about the dancers. It was so cool. Because none of it happens without all those people. I was born with the stamina. Like, she could fucking go. We talked to her briefly after the show, and she was like, I would sing the show and run for three hours on a treadmill to get ready for this. I was like, I don't run for three hours on a treadmill. Ever. Save my life. Wow. I know, it's wild. And I just want to thank you. Our whole summer was a song to sing on the boat. I got videos posted of Kristen dancing on that song.

1:12:57What a song. You know what I love about it too is I think I was in the dark about what a badass Miranda is. Oh, she's amazing. Yeah, I just was in the dark. She's so great. We've been friends for a long time. She's filled in a few times when Morgan had to go do other things and sing on award shows with me. And we've always written songs together. And when I first moved to town as a songwriter, she cut one of the songs I moved to town with. She cut a song I wrote when I was 18. And wow, nobody's fool. So we've known each other a long time. And she's always been really good to me and a great friend.

1:13:26So it was cool to get to do something like that with her. Yeah, it's a very full circle. She sings one of your songs you wrote when you're 18, and then you get to do a song with her. Again, those things are more pure. I feel better because they're real things. It's not because somebody threw us together. Some master producer didn't think this up. Right. It's not something somebody dreamed of. And sometimes those things work out too. Okay. Your chair. This is the cutest thing. Your mom and dad had a dinette set. And then there's a chair that you loved. And you have taken this chair with you your whole life.

1:13:54That chair moved to town with me. I had a chair in like an army sack full of clothes. Packing up the car and making a room for this chair is really comical. It's in the back seat. Is it a wooden chair? No, it's got like a loose side back and it's like chrome. And when I was a kid, the seat was canary yellow vinyl. But my mom recovered it in the 80s and it's very multicolored tweed or something. It almost looks Missoni, but not. Oh, okay. It was your chair? Well, it is now. Okay. It was just one of the chairs. There are three other chairs somewhere. I don't know where all the chairs are. I got to get my hands on one of these fuckers.

1:14:26Going to be in the Smithsonian. Maybe my brother has one. I don't know. But you brought this chair and you've written most of the songs. I've recorded in the studio with that chair. That chair comes every time I'm in the studio. Yeah, the chair's everywhere. That's so sweet. And so first of all, it's just very, very sweet. But then I started thinking, are you superstitious? Because you also have, you're playing the Gibson guitar you bought for$400. You're still playing that. I don't know if I'm superstitious as much as I'm a creature of habit. It's control, right? It's like all the things I can't control are what they are.

1:14:56And the things I can't control, I'm going to control. It's a controlled environment thing, for sure. Yeah, I sit in this chair, I play this guitar. I mean, I built, you know, one of the first stages when I had enough of a production budget, I built a giant diffuser to try to control sound on stage. So that you could hear it right? Yes. We have like a patent on it. If you ever look it up, it looks like some kind of Mad Max Thunderdome. Crazy to build. all these pieces are like 1 ,200 pounds a piece. And it's a diffuser that we carried around on stage. And it was so stupid to build, but I had to hear it.

1:15:25I had to see if it would work because I was trying to control environments. Because most live environments aren't sonically pleasant. And I don't use in-ears. I use floor monitors. And I'm always trying to control the environment in a way that maybe I shouldn't. I gave up on that. I had a different thing that had all these moving motors. That didn't work. I'm all the time drawing shit on napkins and making people who know how to do stuff try to figure it out. See if it's possible. Will this work? I love also you have, this was fun. People should watch this. This is like your essential things that you care about.

1:15:57This is a video I watched. And your dad's knife collection in this knife roll is so special. I got like very nostalgic seeing that. Yeah. What was it about the knives? Where I grew up, and maybe some in Georgia. I don't know if they do this in Georgia as well. People would give you a knife as a sign of respect. and my dad had received a bunch of these knives over the years. They're pocket knives, you know? They're like little pocket knives. Oh, yeah. Let's see. Let's get a visual. I was sad when I learned this that I didn't have time to go out and get a cool pocket knife to give to you. I carry things like this.

1:16:29Yeah. I'll rub the back of them. It's almost like it's a fidget toy for me. There's a comfort in it. It's a connection. I have some that belong to my grandfather as well, my mom's dad. You're the dream dad. I got lucky. My dad collected elephants. Elephants? Elephants. Like actual elephants? Real elephants. No, no, no. Figurines, fucking statues. I don't know. And probably now in retrospect, I don't even know if he liked them that much, but we all believed he liked them. So every Father's Day, every... You got an elephant. You knew what to do. He's like, I got to go to the mall and find me an elephant.

1:17:00And the trunk had to be up. That was good luck. Where did that come from? I don't know. By the time I'm conscious, I already know my father likes elephants. And there's already 10 figurines in the house. But you never asked why I liked it. He just said that he learned they were good luck if the trunk was up. Because I grew up, my mom had this porcelain elephant. He would have wanted to get his hands on that. It looked like a really nice china. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we're painting green all over it. It was like a side table. It had like a table on it. It was functional. Yeah, it was a functional elephant.

1:17:29Fuck, that would have made his year if I could have got my hands on that thing. I think that thing's in a storage unit. Hopefully I can find it. But anyways, your boys are blessed because you have four boys and they know you're going to get a pocket knife. Yeah, knives and cars and guitars. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's great. Of the venues you've played, Super Bowl, SNL twice, talk shows, is there a favorite kind of live experience you've had? Like Super Bowl. One of those times I felt nervous, and I don't often feel nervous. Because that's a scary song, right? Scary song. No control. I controlled what I could.

1:18:02Yeah. There's a lot of moving parts to that. Well, I made it the least amount of moving parts I could. I played it with just me and a guitar. I didn't get the band. I didn't do a pre-tape. I didn't do any of that kind of stuff. And I wanted to go out there and see if I could just do it. And that's nerve wracking for that level of television show to go live, live like that. It's rare you can fuck up in front of 40 million people. You can though. I've done it. But yeah, that was special. And I played when the Letterman show was going off the air. And when I was in Steel Drivers, I got to play on Conan, one of my favorite show of mine.

1:18:33Yeah. Okay, now I'm going to hit you with the weirdest thought I've had through all this reading about you and watching interviews. Okay. And listening to your voice a lot. Do you know how the old mining happened, like hydro mining? The way they mined in like the 1800s, you start with a huge diameter pipe. Let's say it's four feet and you're running water through it. And then you reduce that to two feet and that builds pressure. And then you reduce that to a foot and then you reduce it to six inches. And by the time it's coming out spraying at the side of the hill, it's fucking, you know, a bazillion pounds of pressure.

1:19:04I know nothing about that. Okay, but you get the concept. I was looking at your nose. I'm like, Chris has the cutest little nose for what a big guy he is. He has this tiny little nose. I did not see this coming. And he's got this big chest and he's like this big guy. And it's all starting down here in the fucking diaphragm. And by the time you work all that up and send it through this tiny little button nose, I think that's your magic sound. That's a wild theory. It's a huge setup to ask. Have you observed? Go ahead. Go ahead and respond to this theory. Keep going with your button nose theory.

1:19:40Your hydraulic mining, that's what you are as a musician. Over these 25 years of sitting with musicians and working with musicians, have you observed patterns? Like, have you noticed weird things like, oh, people with this physicality tend to sound this way? Have you picked up these just from doing it so much? I don't know if physicality, I've picked that up. Certainly where people are from probably plays into how they play. Like people from New Orleans have a thing. People from Memphis have a thing. People from Florida have a thing. There's a rock and roll thing that happens there. You can't put your finger on them, but you can't say like they definitively have this thing.

1:20:16Yeah. But they definitely come with a different slant, whether it's the pocket that they play with or the way they hear things or the way they pronounce things when they sing or where they sing things. Maybe that's a pedestrian evaluation of music. It's interesting you say that. I'm reading a book right now. It's talking about cities and the magic of cities. and it was using as an example, like they have tried to start tech companies in New York. They're well financed. They don't work. They work in Silicon Valley. Finance works in New York. Don't really know why other places have tried it, but there's all these cities who have like signature industries that become their DNA and they kind of can't be done elsewhere.

1:20:57I can't explain that. Yeah, it's just a fascinating thing that's very similar to this. Yeah, if you're a musician, you're also a product of something. Right. And can't be replicated. Okay, my last thing I want to say is what is the current fuel you're burning for creativity? Because I imagine it has to evolve dramatically from arriving here hungry and ambitious and fearful and all these things. You have to evolve as the thing starts working out. There's all these very dramatic, youthful things that create art. And as your life stabilizes, which you're trying to get it to do, what drives the creativity?

1:21:31I think it's probably at a bit of a crossroads in that I don't know when I'm going to make another record or write another song. I'm probably not really in the mood. And that's okay with me. Probably not okay with managers and record labels and people like that, but that's okay with me. I don't know how much longer I'll even go play. I don't know. Oh, God. Well, I think he and I are the same age. I'm also really just contemplating what a spectacular life I've had. What do I want the rest of it to be? I want to have made a really thoughtful decision. Yeah, I want to make a thoughtful decision about what I do with the rest of the time that I have on the earth.

1:22:06I got babies. I got some that are almost out of the house. And they gave up a lot for me to be sitting here with you and doing things. So I owe them some things, some time in particular. I've done more than I ever set out to do. And I used to say this about playing the Ryman Auditorium. My dream used to be to play the Ryman Auditorium and sell it out very early after the Timberlake moment. We played it three nights in a row and sold it out. I said, well, now I have to get a new dream. Yeah. And so. What's the new dream phase? What's the new dream? Yeah, yeah. And I do think it's important to find that.

1:22:36So I think for me, fuel is the search. So I'm going to have to search for something. And I'm going to have to hunt for something. I don't know what that is or where it's going to come from. Well, look, I'm in the market for rich friends in their 50s who want to retire and have fun. So I know very few people. What are we going to do? Yes, and I think we're virtually neighbors. I am not in my 50s yet. Thank you very much. You'll be there in two fucking seconds, my friend. I'm not saying I'm hanging up on my spurs. I'm just saying I'm looking for the fire, and I want the fire to lead. That's more elusive now than it used to be.

1:23:09Are you on testosterone? No. I'm on testosterone. How much, man? All of it. Maybe you can back it off a little bit. Whatever they got. I told you it was a nine on the addict scale. No, my numbers are really responsible, actually. But I will say, I was having this really crisis eight years ago. I had like directed a movie. It didn't work out. I'm like, I don't know, man. I don't know. Maybe I did enough. Well, I do think that I've done enough. Yes. And it's not about doing something else. It's about, for me, wanting to do something else. I think I owe it to the people who might listen to what I do or come see me play live or any of those things that they get 100 % of whatever I've got left in me.

1:23:47If they're paying money for a ticket or a record or whatever it is, I feel very resolute in that. And if I don't think that I can deliver on that, I have to evaluate that too. I'm going to start you on 4.4 million. No, I like your answers. Now your passion is going to like shoot back alive. We're going to make six records a year. We don't need to manufacture passion. It'll show itself. But you don't even want it for the results. The feeling of I want to devour something, I want to conquer something, I want to take something on. Like this is a good feeling. Forget the outcome of it. It's like I like feeling that way.

1:24:20Well, you want to feel like you can. I started feeling like I couldn't. I have a little of that. I was just like, I don't know if I care about it. Well, maybe you just need a second. It's okay to take a break. No, he needs testosterone. Oh, my gosh. I'm going to give you your first shot. Oh, no. You got some extra. Oh, man. Oh, I'm always. Give me some of that testosterone. I always roll it back up. Chris, again, truly, we get to talk to a ton of people. I was just very, very excited to get to sit with you. Of all your stuff, it's just your spirit to me screams out when you perform, and it's just so beautiful.

1:24:49I'm really grateful. I get to cross-pollinate. Man, thank you for having me and thanks for taking the time. Yeah. This was really lovely. Thank you. Yeah. I want you to have peace and contentment and I also want you to make 10 or so more albums. So however you accomplish. However you accomplish both of that. All right. Be well. Everyone go today and buy as much Traveler whiskey as you can. Yeah. And fucking let it rip. If you're thinking about quitting take your tour bus out to the desert with a case of Traveler whiskey and it'll set you straight. Chris, thank you so much for coming and I look forward to our retirement together.

1:25:26Yeah, man. Sounds good. Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that were wrong.

1:25:37How you feeling? Good. Are you tore up? As in like tired? Tired, hungover. I'm not hungover at all. No. No, no. I'm not hungover. As far as my consumption, I had a teeny at the awards. Yeah. And then I got one at the Netflix party, but I only had one sip because it wasn't the way I liked it. What was wrong with it? I'm particular. I'm particular. What has it got to be? It's a Hendrix martini. Oh, Jimmy Hendrix? Lemon twist. Okay. No vermouth. Extra bruised if I can get that. I have to see what kind of the environment is, if someone can take that. What's extra bruised? Like shaken, a little icy.

1:26:24Oh, like chunky? Some ice shards. Oh, ice shards. Like just little shards. I like it really cold. Oh, wow. There's so much to it. How long does it take them to make this when they do it right? No, if they know their stuff. Yeah. Eight to ten minutes. I'm just kidding. 12, 13, I don't know. I generally order one at eight and it arrives at like eight 40 to the table. So they're good. I don't know what they're doing. They do it right. Yeah, no, it's fast. But so there was a really cute little martini bar thing right next to where we were standing, sitting at the Netflix. And I was like, oh, I'll I'll get one of those.

1:27:03And I was like, do you have Hendrix? And he was like, oh, no, they're pre-batch. And immediately I was like, oh, and he said, but the version of like a microwave. Is that like the equivalent? Since I'm out of the scene? It's okay. Pre-batch is, you know, they make it ahead of time in a big container. Thermos? Where you put your SpaghettiOs. And then they pour it into glasses for you. A lot of places do pre-batch. That's not for me. You just gave me the best blast from the past memory. SpaghettiOs and thermos. Well, I never had that set up, but other kids did. Yeah. His mothers were at home. Yeah.

1:27:41And boy, and I swear sometimes they'd pop that lid and there was still steam coming out. It held the heat. I know. This son of a bitch is having a hot spaghetti dinner next to me. I know. And a thermos. And did you have like the half-sized thermos? There's halfsies. Yeah. I'm only saying this because my mom will be mad if I don't say it. Because you just protected your mom as you should. And now I have to protect my mom. Okay. Because she also worked. So she would be like, hey, I wasn't. I worked too. Because you didn't have it either. No, I had it, but not all the time, but I had it every now and then.

1:28:15Okay. You know, my mom was making me lunch. And your mother really, she also had another person helping her make some money and stuff. Oh, money, yes. So it's like, he didn't help with lunch. Yeah. As you know, my mom's sick. It was just subway every day. Yeah. My mom was an overtime queen. I know. I'm not, I just wanted to be clear because you said, you know. Now I just, I was defending my mother like round two. I know. It's a cycle here. Yeah, nor does she even buy that. Oh, no, that's not true. We would get some, I think when we go grocery shopping, there were a couple splurges. David and I could both pick out one, two liter of soda occasionally.

1:28:51Oh, that's nice. And then the other thing could be like, I could pick out two cans of Chef Boyardee. Okay, yeah. Yeah, ravioli all the way. I love the ravioli. I would put it in my mouth and I'd like deconstruct it with my teeth and tongue so that I could like, I would scoop out the little ball of meat with my tongue. I really was a psychopath with the way I consumed it, and I loved it. Yeah. So you could have picked SpaghettiOs, but you went Ravioli. We were mainly a Ravioli Chef Boyardee house, too. Well, Raviolis, I believe, are Franco-American brand. Oh, I thought they were Chef Boyardee. They had one, but I don't think it was called SpaghettiOs.

1:29:26I think the trademark, Rob, SpaghettiOs is trademark Franco-American. SpaghettiOs. Uh-oh. Campbell's. It's Campbell's It's Campbell's But I think maybe Campbell's bought Franco-American Since the 80s, 90s I remember it as Campbell Yeah, it was Franco-American Shit Who's Frank? Introduction Okay When did it When did it dissolve Or get absorbed By Campbell's soup Ring-shaped canned pasta Was introduced in 1965 By the Campbell's Soup Company Under the Franco-American brand Perfect So it was It was a sub-brand It was a sub-brand Yeah, yeah. It was under the umbrella. The Campbell's umbrella. Oh, my God.

1:30:12Wow. Anyway, so the batched martini. So he said, I was like, you have Hendrix. And he said, oh, no, they're pre-batched. And I was like, oh, maybe I'll. And he was like, but they're really, really good. So, you know, he had a lot of investment and pride. And so I was like, sure, I'll do it. Yeah. And then. You couldn't get through it. I just only drank one sip. Ugh. That's okay. Why don't you switch to a wine or something? I know. No, but then I was like, I don't want to walk all the way to the bar. It felt. Yeah. Triz is really doing it. No. Oh, no. It was. It's like there's a lot of people, you know.

1:30:44Was there a lot of people? Where was it at? Spago. Spago. Spago. Did they have canned spaghettios? Is that an Italian? They did. They had some like big batched pustas. Ooh, pre-made like the martinis. Uh-huh. I didn't get any, but Rob got some. It was good. It was good. Yeah. Spago's good. We went to an event and I was reminded, you know, we went to a party. we all went to a party on Friday night. We did. Amazon by Vanity Fair. And Vanity Fair. And yeah, I keep going to get reminded I'm not a big party person. I know. It's fun to be invited. Like it is. Absolutely. It's an honor to be invited.

1:31:20It's flattering. And I think it's nice to get cute. Yeah. Wear cute outfits. But then when you get there and it's just so loud and so crowded. Very crowded and packed. And packed. And then really you just end up like you, because of the environment, you want to just be with people, you know, that's right. So yeah. Eventful week. Yes. And then the big day, big day, your designer came through. I was so happy. I was so happy with my dress. Shout out. I saw your post and they put your name on the inside. Stitched my name in there. It's so sweet. it was really cute too because a few people who were there who listened to the pod were chatting where, the party or at the show, like Dakota oh yeah, Dakota we were talking and she was like is that the Brandon Maxwell because she listened so they knew Mila also oh she was on it yeah, so that was cute my most flattering moment you witnessed oh you almost passed out I did Lincoln I mean she screamed at the top of her lungs when I told her this is a big deal hilarious Jacob Elordi yes um I turned and I you know this son of a bitch is like six five he's so gorgeous so gorgeous and so tall You cannot miss him.

1:32:55He towered over you. Yeah, yeah. And so I just looked at him and I said, look at this tall, handsome son of a bitch. Not thinking he's going to know me. And then he said what was, it's at both times the most flattering and humbling thing ever. Yeah. He said, oh my God, dude, I've been a huge fan of you my whole life. Yeah. I was like, yeah, I bet I've been working since you were born or damn near. How old is he? 1997 he was born 28 okay so he was six when i got on the screen yeah yeah it's a nice reminder memories are starting to form i'm his first met so for him yeah his whole life because that's when your memories kind of start imprinting um so but i i took it very well and then second highlight was i was seated next to jenna ortega oh that's so i got a whole nother two hours to annoy her that's funny she was with her mom and it was so cute yeah so i got to know mom really really well nice and i asked her a bazillion questions and it was really fun fun and then we won and then we won some people don't some people might think amy poehler won and not have read that they did call later and said they missed it was a mistake it was like moonlight when moonlight yeah yeah it's very similar to moonlight similar to that no we did not win um and that and they They just didn't want to embarrass Snoop, you know, for reading the wrong name.

1:34:21Yeah, you read the wrong name. Actually, we did an interview with him on the carpet. And I said, well, regardless of what it says, are you just going to say armchair expert? He said yes. I know. And I said, I have cage. I know. I was willing to pay. You were willing to pay. Yeah. And then for the record, I just, if I, and I told Babers, I was like, right from their announcement, if we had to get beat by someone, I couldn't be happier that it was Babers. I went up to her and I said, how dare you? How dare you? And she was so cute. She's so cute. I just love her so much. And then Nikki Crush, what a job.

1:34:57She did so well. She did so well. I love her. I have such an affinity for her. I went to her party after the Netflix party. I wanted to show up for her. And she was so cute. I said the podcast package was so funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. her monologue was so good I thought yeah oh my god yeah it was so good I was very fatigued though by the time we got to the show because we had done a lot of press which A I haven't done in a while and B we were navigating this endless share question which requires like that you're nimble you have to be really nimble what I want to say is like guys it was funny and a joke why the fuck would we post it if we didn't think that that's what you want to say and you're not allowed to say that no you're not allowed to say that dax and you didn't say it and i was glad yeah no that question came up a lot every single interview as we thought it might we thought it might i was like oh we'll get hit with that once or twice but every single one we did sometimes i'm just feel them waiting to drop it like i'm gonna do three nice things i know and then i'm gonna it's funny because you know this is where my um pr background comes into play uh your expert training Just the anticipated like, okay, when is it coming?

1:36:13Yeah, exactly. That was nice. That was nice. When's it coming? It's like waiting to get shoved in the back. Like when you're in high school and you're a dude and you know someone wants to kick your ass. And you know, people will tell you like, Mike's looking for you. Yeah. And you kind of just walk around waiting to just get shoved in the back. Sure. And that's kind of just a simmering feeling. Yeah. I know. Also, who cares? No boo-hoo. No, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but yeah. No, I mean, speaking of high school, the whole thing is extremely high school on crack. From beginning to end, it's immediately popular kids versus not popular kids.

1:36:54Who belongs here versus who doesn't belong here. The seating arrangement. Oh, my God. The seating. The arrival stuff. Oh, my God. Okay, so they changed the whole thing this year. There were stairs. It was in tented. We had slots. Yeah. And you have to arrive during that time to do the carpet. And then, and even that is a whole thing. It's like only nominees are allowed to go on the carpet. Right. And your name has to be there, you know? Yes, yes. And no publicists are allowed on the carpet, right? Yeah. Our slot was really early, but you were going with Kristen, so you were going a little later.

1:37:37Yeah, I was really caught. Yeah. In the middle there. Rob and I went early. It took so long to get where we're in eyesight. Like this is just what's all so funny. These are things you don't know when you're watching. I think it's funny. Like we're at a hotel that is in eye line to the Beverly Hills. Where we were staying versus the venue is a nine iron away if you golf. Yes, exactly. But you have to go three miles. Yes. Maybe more. I think more. You got to go all the way to fucking West LA and make a bootleg onto Wilshire. It's insane. There's like this whole specific way that the cars have to go.

1:38:17And then what I did really, even though it was like frustrating maybe for people because it slowed everything down. I did like there was like extreme security. Oh, yeah. I love that part. And I was so happy. Me too. So that was great. But then, yeah. So the whole thing takes so long to get there. Then you get there and then you have to stand in line for the carpet. it. So by the time, doesn't matter what time you leave, unless you leave at 10 a.m. By the time you get there, you're not in your slot. So we finally get to the front of the line and it's me and our wondering publicist and Adam Kirsch, our publicist and Rob and me.

1:38:57And so we're like going up the line and they're ready to like drop me off. Right. And then they have to go this other way. so we get there and she's like to to our publicist she was like are you in the right time slot and she kind of just says yeah and then like is going and then she was like no what let me see it and she was like well we're not and she's like well then you guys need to go over there and I was like wait wait over there and she's like yeah there's photo opportunities over there and I was like but that's not the carpet I was like I just spent my entire more I'm not like, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:39:35And she was like, yeah. And she just kept saying there's photo opportunities over there. And I was like, I'm going to go this way. And she was like, well, how many of you is it? And I was like, it's just me. And she's like, OK, if it's just you, that's fine. And I was like, I mean, and then you are in such a weird headspace. Sure. Because it's like. You're very insecure. You know, they didn't say that to Emma Stone. Exactly. Okay, well, and as he should, Stellan Skarsgård's in front of me. He walks right in and is fine and no one's stopping him. Adam and Leighton are next to me. No one's, you know, and I was like, yeah, it starts immediately where you're just like, oh, my God.

1:40:14And then you feel like you want to be like, I'm nominated. I'm not just here. I'm supposed to be here. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that whole thing is so interesting. And then you're that's in your head right before you have to go do these pictures in front of all these people. Yeah, it's really it's interesting. I just find it very interesting. And I feel like there's a story in here. There's a book in here. And then, you know, you you go down the stairs and sometimes it's like 85 people are taking pictures of someone. And then, you know, for me, it's like one person. And then you're like, oh, it's just like ego hit after ego hit.

1:40:51And and at the same time, you're like, and I'm here. It's like, do you remember in Indiana Jones when they're going through the thing and the darts are coming out the wall, like the blow darts? I know. I know. And it is really. But then you're also at like one of the biggest parties in the world. You're invited there. And like, you know. And wild people are walking by. Sean Penn's walking by. Benicio Del Toro is walking by. And that's all amazing. Yeah. It's so cool. and I also I think I said this also when we were talking to someone it's fun for me Rob and I were talking about this we're like everyone coming down these stairs is someone we've had on this show like so many and that was cool we've created something where all these these people have come and chatted with us yeah so so it's just wild yeah where the seating is obviously we had to deal with a little bit like where are you gonna sit Yes, I was supposed to be at the podcast table.

1:41:51Yeah, with me. I'm not sitting with my wife during also this other added layer of everyone's scrutinizing us. Yeah, I know. So now I'm not at her table. That looks insane. Shit I would never normally have to even think about. I know. But we did some moving around. You came for the category. And Anna was next to me most of the time. So we had tons of fun. So, yeah, but it's it was really it was really it was fun. It was a cool experience. I'll never forget it. It was really fun. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

1:42:41the biggest event is Lincoln requested that we go back to the go-kart truck yeah and I was like oh my gosh she's got she's been bit okay so we went we just got back we did four races first race eight adults last time it was mostly her and I and then a couple stragglers but today was you know there was track full fucking passing people took a turn collided into somebody didn't give a fuck kept it going finished fourth beat her time from last week brought it down every single session someone passed her and spun her out and she was livid for 45 minutes she went and take her helmet off between sessions and she wanted to get back and I'm like wow this is incredible when I watched her play soccer I was like girl attack collide you gotta get over this fear of collide Well, it's here.

1:43:35That's great. Like within her second time, she was like max. That's exciting. Going for every pass. Fearless. Oh, so fun. Very fun. Yeah, I just saw her and she was showing me her. Her printouts. Yeah, really cute. She got into the 26s. That's cute. She's so excited. She wants it. She's got to get into the 25s now. What if she gets in the ones? And so I was coasting. First two races, of course, I got the fastest lap time. Of course. Of course. That's my move over there. And I'm paying attention mostly to Lincoln. Then the third session, and I hadn't been in the same spot of the track. I just told, I get out and I see the printout.

1:44:15I was not first. What the fuck? Who's this Patrick dude? Oh. Well, it turns out this dude worked there. Oh. He also races Formula 4. Oh, cool. And I was like, okay, good. I got a goal now too. So you lost two days in a row? I guess I did. Wow. And again, Max didn't win this year and he's the best. So just look at him. It is funny when like, you know, when you lose, which I don't have all that much experience with. Yeah, I'm going to have to guide you through this experience. Yeah, it is. It's funny when you look around and you're like, look at all these other people who also did not win. Leonardo DiCaprio didn't win.

1:45:00I know, it's like, how can you really be upset? You're like, oh my God, these people didn't win too. Yes, and did you see you on battle after? And they're the best people. Yeah, yeah. And like Adam Scott's sitting so close to us. I know. And he didn't win. And of course, but it's not because, I'm not saying the person who won shouldn't have won. It's just like, oh yeah, everyone's fucking amazing here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that is when they're like, you know, when people say it's an honor to be nominated, when you're on the outside, you kind of think that's just something you say, but it is real.

1:45:30Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very real. Yeah. So, what's cool? Very cool. Oh, no. Should I tell people about something disgusting about me? Oh, sure. We love disgusting stuff. God. This is probably why we lost. I think Eric put a curse on me. Okay. When he asked me, like, or when he said, you're lucky you don't have dandruff because your hair is so black. Oh, and you've been experiencing a little dander? I hate it. Okay. Okay. Okay. It doesn't really match with what I'm going for in this life. And I really, it's like starting to make me feel insane. But I am using a new product, Rose. Shout out, Rose, for real.

1:46:17Also, I keep spitting. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. I also keep spitting because I bit my lip and it's so big and it hurts. and now I'm talking bad and I'm spitting and I'm dandruff. Who will date me? Everyone. Everyone will date you. You let them. Anyway, so yeah. So this new product is like an exfoliant scrub. So it helps. Yeah. Because one day I was like, what? Like, I was like, what's happened? I didn't, I couldn't even realize it was coming from my head. That's how bad it was. Oh, wow. And then I hated myself. I have beard dander. So I can relate. That's just skin. Yeah, same, same, same, same. It's all skin.

1:47:02I think it's perimenopause. No, no. No, just dander. Okay, one thing I list. We also went to a thing Saturday morning. We went to a little event. Oh, we did, yeah. And I went solo. First of all, I was supposed to overlap you, and I was writing in the morning, and I happened to get on one of those rare things where I was like, couldn't stop, was in the bubble. Yeah. They went to take a dump, see a text from you. Where the fuck are you? And I'm like, oh, my God, that's right now. Yeah. It was 11. And it ended when I read that text. And I'm sitting on the toilet. And I'm like, oh, my God. So I got down there in like 12 minutes.

1:47:41Yeah, good. Hung with the people I needed to hang with. And then I was leaving. And this needs to be explained. There are fans of which I have endless time for. Then there are dudes who, when they see you going to a place, they go into a printer in the back of their van. they print out posters and then they ask you to sign them so they can sell them i don't care about those dudes right uh that's fair and so i um i was leaving and i was going to walk to my motorcycles really close to the front door of this place and there's you know these dudes with posters and um and i kind of walk by them and i only get like halfway by them and then there's there's always tmz people or tmz like people there and immediately one guy starts screaming share signs autographs you're fucking signing swearing at me share a science autograph which first of all no no i don't think that's true uh secondly he's screaming that and then this woman she's got a camera filming and she starts going you still gonna make your 11 year old daughter freeze her eggs and i'm like what is going on right now i was saying it was as if the internet came alive for a second like you only really deal with that in writing from strangers on the internet dude it was like straight internet chatter the worst comments just blasting as i got on my com uh my motorcycle and you're like i dropped my glove oh fuck i'm on camera i dropped my glove you know for my motorcycle gloves oh and i gotta bend over and i'm like i just want to like get out of there and they're screaming just toxic things at me.

1:49:17Ew. And I got to bend over and get my glove. And then I just stopped and I had a big giggle on the motorcycle. That's good. I'm like, Cher's autograph. It really got me. I'm like, what does this guy scream? What does it even mean? That's so dumb. He's like trying. He knows that's bait, Cher. But then an autograph thing happens. So he's tying these two messages together. And this girl's yelling about getting my 11. And I wanted it so. You can't say anything. But I wanted to go. I just want to ask you, do you think they freeze 11 year old's eggs? No, she doesn't. Do you think the question you asked me is a possibility on planet Earth?

1:49:53She doesn't. That's the whole thing. They know. They know the reality. They're sitting there to make you mad. Yeah, that is that is literally the point of that. Yeah. And they just attack you. I'm going to even rewind. Thank God, by the way. So earlier I had this other experience where someone, a friend of mine, I look at my DMs and it appears they've sent me a video. So I open up this video and it is this comedian lady making a video about Cher saying the thing. And she's talking about how fucking ugly I am and what a stupid name I have. And she's letting it rip. I mean, this woman hates my guts.

1:50:32And so I immediately am like, why the fuck did my friend send this to me? Right. And then I realized because the comments that are first under a post are the people you know, right? So I see, oh, my friend actually defended me. He's showing you he defended you? No, just he wasn't even showing me, but he tagged me. I don't think he realized it was going to go to my DMs. Oh, I see. So I'm like, but now I saw this fucking lady spending all this time doing this. And then, so I preemptively sent my family a very nice text. All my family that loves me and I know will defend me if they see something.

1:51:13And I said, hey gang, there's a lot of stuff being written about me and I just want you to know it doesn't bother me and you don't need to defend me and it'll only give oxygen to the thing. So I'm not saying anyone did anything, just preemptively blah, blah, blah. Yeah. So then I had a chat with my mom like later that day and she goes, I didn't really know what that text was about. So I looked you up and I was like, you know what? I got to say I'm fucking proud of you. That's my son. And I'm like, what is she talking about? Literally, I'm like, the Cher? Yeah. And I go, you're proud of me? And she goes, yeah, that's such a feminist move.

1:51:48You're going to get your daughter's eggs freeze if they wanted to so that they can be on their own timeline. And I go, hold on a second. That's a story? Which I didn't even know. Wait, that, yeah. That's a huge story? Did you know that? I saw it once. I didn't know that. But I wasn't, the thing I saw didn't say 11-year-old. It said the real thing. It did? Yeah. Okay, so my mom stumbled upon that stuff. So weirdly, thank God she told me about that thing because if I didn't know that and this stranger just randomly talked about my daughter, the crazier thing I think I dodged a real ball is I was going to take Delta to that party.

1:52:30I know, I know. But I left so late, I knew I was going to ride my motorcycle so fast, I didn't want her on back. So I didn't take her. Yeah. She was sad about it, and I was sad. Yeah. But fucking, thank God. If I was walking out with her and they were doing that shit to her. Do you think they would? I do. They're fucking shameless. Yeah. Oh, my God. I don't. I can't predict what I would do. Oh, God. You can't talk in front of my 11-year-old. I know. I know. But I know. I'm so lucky. I'm so lucky that. dodged yeah it was like i'm now universe like thank god i was late so that i didn't take that that one would have been saying that shit in front of delta i just i don't know if i could have kept my cool yeah and then there would have been another fucking headline that i have my daughters on my motorcycle then that would have been the next thing he rides with his children on his motorcycle yeah there's a there's an endless you know you got it yeah but i want to say the thing that i said to my family and then i want everyone to know that i it doesn't bother me because it is a gift of things having worked out for me.

1:53:33Yeah. The more it works out for you, the more that's going to happen. And I just remind myself, like, this is just a symbol of, like, you got fucking lucky. Things have worked out for you. Look, in the past, I haven't had a great healthy attitude about this kind of stuff, but I currently have a lot of peace with it, which I'm grateful for. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, we're going to do some. This is for Chris Stapleton. Great. So exciting. Huge get. Now would be a great time to say that I cannot stop listening. He's the best. To Steel Drivers, his first band, Heaven Sent. What a fucking song. He's so good.

1:54:12What a song. He's just so good. Yeah. Really lucky that we got to interview him. We've been trying for a while. Oh, no. So it was very exciting. Not very many facts. Okay. Just a few. What is the population of Staffordsville, Kentucky? Yeah. Small. 2 ,625 people. Okay, so kind of Milford size where I grew up. Really small. Small stuff. Okay, what is the industrial cable side of the Pirelli company, the one his dad worked for? In 2005, Pirelli sold its cable division to Goldman Sachs, changing the new group's name to Prismian. Prismian? Don't recognize it. T-R-Y-S-M-I-A-N. Wouldn't even try to say it out loud.

1:55:01That's tough. I'm going to go with Prismian. Yeah. I don't know if that was the right name to go with. Yeah. Maybe it was someone's last name. Maybe that's a well-known term within cabling. Oh, maybe. Oh, speaking of today, which you posted, but today connections was exciting. Why not? Why not? We love you. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. It is a phrase. What do you mean you don't know? It's a phrase. So it could also be just cheeky as a phrase. It might not be about us. Monica. We're making some assumptions. Oh, I feel very, I don't even feel cocky about saying that. I don't know. I wish she would tell us.

1:55:44Maybe the next clue will be, you are right. Monica's wrong. Dax is right. Trying to put Dax in one of these, you can't, there's no. They could make it about chairs. It couldn't group anything. Oh, that's right. Or the German Stock Exchange, maybe? Or like the Ds are replaced with Xs in these forwards. It could be for fax. Oh. Like types of machines, but the first letters change. I don't know if it was real or not real. I don't know if it was for us or not for us, but regardless, we took it as a big win. I'm taking it as the consolation prize for sure. Yeah, it was exciting. Oh, how old was Chris when he wrote the song Higher?

1:56:24He wrote it 23 years ago, 20 years before the album came out in 2023. He's currently 47, so he would have written it at 24. 24. Great age. I was really hitting my stride as a party animal at 24. At 24. Yeah, I was like developing. You know, I had like, I knew what boozes I liked, drugs I was partaking in. You know, really it was working. You knew your cocktail. Like, I know mine. My, do you remember it? Yes, your Hendrix Martini. Bruised. Lemon Twiz. Lemon Twiz. Yeah, because I don't like all of them. Okay. I love them. I want to like them. Yeah, they look good, don't they? Yeah, they're on my top foods that I wish I liked, but I don't.

1:57:09Do you try? I do. I keep trying. You do. Okay, great. Because I've had a lot of things flip. Yeah. Cottage cheese. Yeah. Always looks so good. I know. I would take a bite one day. It's terrible. I know. And then I'd take a bite one day. I was like, fuck, this is good. I know. I agree. Coffee. You're like, ugh, this shit's bitter. And one day you're like, this stuff's delicious. I know. You're right. But I keep trying. And every now and then I'll just eat it. Now, I'll be specific. I like the purple ones. The purple and dark ones. You don't like greens. I'm not wild about the green ones. Oh, interesting.

1:57:40So have you fucked with the purple ones? Yeah, they get put on stuff. Do you know what my gateway was? I remember the day in place where it turned. Because I hate olives. I hate olives. I hate olives. I was with my mother doing legwork at the Biltmore Hotel in Phoenix, Arizona, or Scottsdale. And we went out to eat with the client for lunch, and they put an olive tamponade on the table. And I sampled that olive tamponade. And I was like, hold up a second. What is this goulash, this slurry? and I fell in love with tamponade, which then led to me being able to eat them in the raw. I know I'm probably not saying it right.

1:58:19No, you are, I think. Okay, maybe. Yeah. Okay. So try an olive tamponade. Okay. That might get you. That's what got me. Do you like black olives? I like the purple ones. That's what's generally in a tamponade. But what about if you order a pizza and it has olives? It's normally black. Yeah, I would never order pizza with olives. Okay. I would just eat the purple ones raw or eat a tamponade and I'll have a gallon of tapenade. And you know, my old favorite restaurant, R.I.P. Trapicali. Oh, Trapicalia, yeah. Trapicalia, they made a tapenade. That old, oh. I wonder if I ever had that tapenade. I'm going to go find myself a tapenade tonight.

1:58:59You should. And I'll report back. They vary a lot in their quality, I'll say. It doesn't really make sense because I love salt. Yeah, and it's baked and I'll, you know, not baked, but it's soaked and marinated in olive oil. I love olive oil, which also makes no sense. I love olive oil. I like capers, which are basically olives. I like capers. But why? I don't know. All right. Well, I hope this will be your gateway. Okay. 2026. You're the tough one on. Okay. Love you. Love you.

1:59:39Amen.