Cohen Miles-Rath (on psychosis and recovery)

22:20You're coaching, but you have a fucking one-hitter on you at all times. You're like stealing hits from the pipe while you're coaching. You're smoking when you wake up all day long. Smoking what, weed? Weed. Okay, okay. You're an addict. At this point, when you're carrying around a one-hitter and you're supposed to be coaching people and you're stealing hits. Yeah, while they're doing my repeats out in the airport field, I'm like smoking weed by my car. Yeah, it's getting to that point that it's isolated. You're not at a party. You're not with friends. There's nothing social going on. No. You are just like regulating, regulating, regulating.

22:53Every minute. And did you recognize it? You recognize like, this is a little, I know this isn't great. No, I always like loving it. You traded the one high for another. Unfortunately, this one has a very predictable law of diminishing returns. So it all works for a while. That's why we all become addicts. If it didn't work, we wouldn't do it. Yeah, that's true. But that isn't necessarily even what takes its course. So when does your sense of reality start getting questionable? Or what things first start happening? So this is about a year after I basically quit running close to it. And I actually become really obsessed.

23:31Now that running was no longer in the picture, I was like, I need something else to do. And for some reason, I became obsessed with screenplay writing, movie writing. And it's mainly because I had this big idea for this movie. I was like, this is going to be an instant hit. The movie happened to relate with the relationship with my coach, Dan. Write what you know. And I would just spend hours in the library studying screenplay literature and movie writing. Late into the night, I'm kind of like not really caring about my school academics anymore. My GPA drops. So that was an early sign of mania.

24:01Rapid thinking, grandiose thoughts. That ramp up, that ride up is also kind of euphoric, right? It is. You're like on meth without being on meth. Pretty much. I love that I was passionate about that, but it was to an unhealthy level. Right. I was going to say this later, but I guess now I want to know about right now. There's all these elements of it. One of them I think that's unavoidable is like, there is some bizarre level of narcissism that accompanies the manicness. You're important. You're going to write the best screenplay ever. It's kind of fantastical thoughts of grandeur. Yeah. You think you're like bigger than what you really are.

24:37Yeah, yeah. And there's like this lovely dose of it. Everyone in college should think they can be Spielberg. It's complicated. But there's just like, I don't know what the line is. Yeah, because you don't actually get to be any of those people without some level of grandiosity. You do have to believe, like all of us, that we came here and we're like, well, out of these millions of people here, I guess it'll be me that rises to the top. We don't come off as grandiose because it worked out. But if it doesn't work out, yeah, it's a weird, fine line. And even as I hear your story, everything's a spectrum, right?

25:12I can see my own life really riding a little bit of a similar wave, but just not reaching those heights. Even my vision of being a professional runner, that was kind of an early flavor of that for me. Yeah, that was at least backed up by some really concrete evidence that that was a possibility. It was still a possibility, right? Even though it's always like less than 1 % ever really make it big in anything, even relating to like artwork, right? It's the same thing. So yeah, that was definitely going on and it was taking new form. And how many months would you say that period was? A few months throughout the fall.

25:45So just feeling really kind of energized with this new pursuit, ignoring other things. And then what's kind of the next step? I like to share this specific example. You know the movie Inside Out? Of course you guys know about Inside Out, right? Fantastic movie. I saw this movie at some point during this time. I think it had come out at some point. And I remember just sitting in this theater and I'm watching it. And, you know, it's about these cartoon characters and the main character's head. Each color represents a certain emotion. I remember watching this and I'm starting to think, are there little beings inside my head controlling me?

26:17Who is controlling me? Who am I? And this started to be some bizarre thinking, right? Which I would say resembled an early sign of psychosis. So that was starting to come into play. And colors take on some really heightened relevance for you, right? Break down what's happening with colors at that point. I would get to the point where as my symptoms kind of worsened throughout the fall semester and then into the spring semester, colors and patterns definitely started to capture my attention in a certain way. And this is not uncommon for schizo-related illnesses. Red became a sign of danger, which, you know, is, but it was a bit different for me.

26:54It's like when I see red, I'm literally in danger. And it could be just, you know, like a book or something like that. Oh, interesting. Wild that you put red on the cover of your book. That was my idea. Yeah. Intentional? It was intentional because I really wanted to be forward with it. I wanted to just own it and I wanted to really portray that I'm coping with that, right? Yeah. I'm comfortable with it. It's like if you see red, it's a sign that something bad is going to happen or is it imminent danger? It's hard to really justify any logic in psychosis states. It varied. One specific example is when I was driving, if I saw a red car on the highway, I'd have to stay behind it.

27:32Because if I passed it, it might start following you or something. Or it might be in some form of danger or risk is going to happen if I pass that car. It's kind of OCD, a little. Everyone's a comorbidity on the other one. When did the hallucinations start? These are arbitrary definitions. Like the emphasis on the colors is already some interesting form of a hallucination, but very low grade. And it could also be considered a delusion of reference where you're interpreting something in your environment as of special meaning to you. But yeah, there's a combination of hallucination and delusions going on simultaneously.

28:05I do want to take one second because I thought it was a really great definition to know as we go forward. It was hallucinations are defined as internal generated voices or images that your brain labels as coming from the outside world. Like if you can really think that through, it originated, it was your own concoction, but you seem to receive it from the outside world. So this is how the breakdown of reality is occurring. These things you've generated, you think you're witnessing. Typically the five senses, right? Touch, tactile, hallucinations, smell is olfactory, hallucinations. hallucinations and you have the visual and the auditory and then what's the last sense taste I've never even considered when I think of hallucinations I only think of people hearing voices auditory or seeing things I've never thought taste or touch did you experience any of those I definitely did at some point yeah I experienced all of them at various points I think when it become a lot more severe later on in my story it was all things yeah so I guess a couple of the touchstones along this route are like you see glittering gold running through your veins?

29:10Yeah, at some point it's a blister on my toe, but I'm thinking that I'm a god at that point. That was pretty later on when I was at a very severe level, so I thought it was gold. I thought my blood was gold. Yes, when you watch TV you're seeing naked gods dance on TV. Yeah, commercials, the visualness from our screens, even the phones was completely altered to what it was actually being on screen. Yeah. When you experience it, is the frontal lobe pressure testing this and saying like, well, hold on, this can't be happening. Or is that voice gone? That was gone. It's gone. But do you know enough to like know not to tell anyone else?

29:46Being in that state, it was just honestly like a completely different person, completely different identity. I feel I actually lost my identity at some point where I was like nothing. But you were a God at some point. I was a God. I was Jesus. Yeah. I was, I think, Lucifer at some point. Wow. But were you telling people that? I guess that's my question. You do tell a professor, which causes your first kind of red flag situation. At some point, I mean, I want people to be saying it because keeping it under wraps is the scary part. Yeah, and I even had a conversation with my dad about my theory.

30:19There was a delusional narrative that was happening. And I was vocal about certain things, but I also, like, not. And I don't really know why. Yeah, yeah. But that delusional narrative, if it related to what I was determined to do, which was write a sentence to discover the truth of the universe, I was pretty vocal about that. And when his dad recounts this experience, it's so sweet. He's like, you know, he's gone to college. He's become really smart. I don't know. Maybe what he's saying is true. You would think dad would focus on the merit of this story or the logic of it. But I would imagine interpersonally, dad's just going, or I would be going, oh, my child's entered a world.

30:56I might not be able to join him. I mean, who knows what he's going through when you're on that rant? You would think he'd be going, that doesn't seem to make sense. But more he might be feeling like, oh, no, are we going to have a relationship with this new egghead version of my son? Who knows what he's experiencing in that moment? Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking what the warning light means before pulling out of your driveway. You absolutely convinced yourself it was probably just a sensor thing right up until you were standing on the side of the road waiting for a tow.

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35:35In order of events, when do you think you see your professor proclaim to the class that you are a prophet? This is my spring semester, so I was taking humanities, right? Philosophy, studying human nature. And that's where this idea, you know, the idea of the screenplay transformed into a theory to explain everything. It was kind of stimulated by the... A unified theory for the universe. Yeah, wild, wild line of thinking. I feel like maybe a couple of weeks into that semester, I do meet with the professor because I had this burning idea about this theory and I wanted to talk to him about it. I always question like, what is a hallucination?

36:10What's a delusion? I never really know unless I go back and talk. But basically I was given the task to create this one sentence summary. And then I did that. I achieved what I thought I achieved. Probably couldn't wait to share that. As soon as I discovered it, it was a Thursday. I had a humanities class, and that's when I shared it with the professor. And he called the police. I don't think he called the police. He connected me with someone at the university, a support person, because he noticed my bizarre behavior in class. Because after I write this sentence, I fold up a piece of paper, and I put it onto his desk.

36:42And I'm late to class by like a couple minutes, because I was focused on this big idea. Casual big idea. And I sit down and I'm like drawing out my theory now in like this bizarre cartoon that only makes sense to you. Yeah. Piecing it together and he's watching this. He's definitely like something is up. I'm going to connect this student of mine with a support professional so that when I got home that day, there was an email from him saying like I should go see this person and it's someone he trusted. Yeah. And at that point in that class, he talked about how I was the prophet. But that was an auditory hallucination.

37:12So probably you thought, oh, great, he's sending me to the next rung of the ladder by which I'm going to disseminate this great truth I've discovered. Yeah. You don't know you're walking into a situation where someone's going to challenge your delusions. No, because he became a voice of sacred commands to some sense. So if he said, go see this person, no question. No question in my mind because he had declared that I was the prophet. Yeah. It's obviously going to help you. The result of this is you do get prescribed medicine. You're on a five-day kind of hold. After that class, the next day is when a police officer shows up at my door.

37:44I think it was a support person at the college who made that call. And that's when I get taken to the emergency room and then into my first psychiatric hospitalization. Do you remember what you thought was occurring while a police was taking you to a holding area? I did not think he was a police officer. I thought he was working for the professor. He actually did an amazing job. I commend this officer. He kept the situation de-escalated. He worked with me. He didn't challenge me. I think he said something like, the professor would want you to do this. So he worked within my state of mind because he could clearly tell that I was very unwell.

38:17And building that trust in that type of situation, it's hard to do, but he did an amazing job. Oh, can I ask quickly, how much sleep do you think you're getting in this period? I was not sleeping for days. I was not eating. I was also just not taking care of that basic physiological need. That was out the door. And smoking weed the whole time? It did fall off at some point, but I had been, in the weeks leading up to this time, I was smoking regularly, yeah. Okay, so you get a diagnosis in that five days. They kind of go back and forth between diagnoses, right? And this is sometimes a challenge because they say, oh, maybe it's bipolar.

38:46Maybe it's schizoaffective. Maybe schizophrenia. Maybe cannabis use disorder. They write you a prescription for Zyprexa. Respiradol. Oh, Zyprexa comes the second. Is that an antipsychotic? It's an antipsychotic. And I remember a lot from this hospital visit. But I remember before getting into the psychiatric unit, they had put me to sleep. They had ejected me with like Ambien at the emergency room. So I had finally slept for like hours, right? So when I woke up, I was like in this very stunned state. Cobwebs were like in my mind. I couldn't even process what I had just gone through, let alone explain it to them at the hospital.

39:22How long was that chunk of time, would you say, that you were in the manic spell before you ended up in the holding? You know, it definitely was a progression. I would say probably at the highest point, maybe like a couple of days, maybe like a week. Okay. So you get out, dad is informed. And how do you and dad process what just happened? It's so interesting because like I kind of go back to my typical state. I'm like all of a sudden going again and just ready to get back to college class, back to my campus job. I mean, we have a meeting with like a psychiatrist at the place who says I'm a good role model for the other patients needs to, because I was very social.

39:57I'm kind of a social person. Social butterfly. A little bit. And I didn't want to take the medication. Any idea that if I had someone in a psychiatric unit was like what I saw in movies going up. People acting crazy, wild. One flew over the cuckoo's nest. Yes. Yeah, you're like, that's not me. That's not me. I did not want to be associated with mental illness at all. This is so common. So therefore, I also did not want the medication. I agreed to take it so I'd get out of the hospital. As soon as I left, I stopped taking it. And my dad, he agreed as well. And he himself had decided to not take the medication that was offered to him with the bipolar diagnosis.

40:29Yep, he'd kind of always had some sense of not wanting to partake in that level of achievement. Right. But he didn't really see you in your manic state. He did in a way, but I don't think he knew what was going on. The extent, yeah. So it's just kind of seeing me act bizarre and all this, but not really understanding what I'm actually going through. Right. Right. Okay, so what's the timeline between then and your dad's kitchen? I think it was about a month in between those two times. Were you allowed to go back to college? Yes. Those five days happened during spring break. Very convenient. You're talking about it nicely.

41:03What a coincidence. It was almost like it was a sign. A couple weeks go by. I'm just kind of like my typical self. And then I remember going to play a show at a bar with my friend Finn. I play the drums. He plays guitar. And we stayed at one of his buddies' house. I remember waking up at that house. And for some reason, I brought my humanities homework with me. Because I was like, I'm going to do homework. And I was studying Sigmund Freud's civilization of its discontent. And I remember sitting in the kitchen reading the book. And he talks about this oceanic feeling. I don't know if you're familiar with the oceanic feeling term.

41:32No. Freud is struggling with the concept because it talks about this feeling with the universe, this kind of like oceanic, like high, right? In some sense. Connection to everything. Connection, spiritual connection. We're all moving together. We're all moving together. It's kind of like this flow. And Freud is struggling understanding the science behind that. But I read this concept. I'm like, that's what I was experiencing before the hospital. That was that feeling. So I remember as soon as I read about it, I'd stored my work in my backpack, the work that I'd done in my manic, the sentence. It was a blue folder, actually, in which I kept all these paragraphs, all these writings.

42:06For some reason, I just kept it with me, but I'd never opened it until that point. But then once I start reading it, that's when I was basically all back in. Someone shows up in the kitchen in the morning there, someone at the house, I don't know who it was, who I would later associate with Jesus because he had like this long hair and this flow, and I was back in it at that moment. When you break the window of the... So how the timeline went, when I regained my belief that I'm the prophet, that I have to do this mission, I had my truth, I had the sentence, and I want to share it with the world.

42:39Do you have it memorized? Yes, yes I do. Is it triggering to say... It's not. What is the sentence? Yeah, so the sentence was, eternal life occurs when you balance thinking and doing while feeling both. I don't know that it unlocks the truth to the universe, but it is a very nice sentence. I think it was my mind's way of trying to find some wellness and a comfort in the existential portion of my experience, which is interesting. Okay, so you leave the house. A couple things go down. I actually end up due back in the hospital again. Before the incident, before breaking the window, I end up back in the hospital.

43:09And I would consider myself being in crisis at this high severity of psychosis for about a week. And I had this idea, like now that I have my theory, I had to share it with the world. I had created a Facebook page to do that because social media had become a big thing at the right exact time in my life. And I also thought that I had to marry my ex-girlfriend. I would show up at this church with the big red doors, thinking that my ex-girlfriend was just going to be there to marry me. And I went there often, right? Just believing that it was going to happen. So a couple of days go on and it was a Thursday night.

43:42I go there at like two o 'clock in the morning. I like sneak out of the house. Actually, I think my dad did wake up at that time because as soon as I got to the church, cop cars are there. He had like knew where I was going because I'd said something prior to this. So I get there and they take me back to the hospital. I go back to the emergency room. And it's kind of similar to the first time where I finally sleep and I wake up and I'm kind of in this hazy state. They probably gave you IV medication would be like this or maybe not. This one's a little fuzzier. There's common knowledge that the more often you experience psychosis, the more it's harder to come back and to process it.

44:16So time was a little bit more fuzzy for me. And, you know, I read the medical records from this hospital visit. And it's so strange because I'm saying things like I'm excited to graduate. I'm excited to go on to a professional job. I don't remember any of that. What I remember is saying something about color coordination. So it's almost like psychosis dominated my consciousness. And yet a part of me was still there. Yeah, man. How do you unravel? Yeah, you have a memory of what was happening. And there's a record of what's happening. Of course, they don't match. That's the whole point of the psychosis.

44:46But also what you were saying, you were seeming normal. So then they're going to be like, okay, well, I guess he's not that bad. Let him out. You're also in the emergency room and you're trying to work through the highest probability explanation. It's like, this dude hasn't slept. This dude's probably been on meth or this dude's been on Adderall. Like you're not going to jump to, he has one of the rarer conditions. Yeah. Not necessarily. I mean, or maybe they do, but I can see where you would also get easily misdiagnosed. I don't blame anyone. I mean, I've showed those records to colleagues of mine, you know, being a social worker now.

45:21They said, like, we would have let you go too. Yeah, of course. So I get out and I was pretty much still in severe psychosis. Unlike the first hospital where I kind of reverted back to my typical self, this time I did not. And it was only one night too. I was there for one night. Could they have justified keeping me there just knowing how early that I was starting to experience the symptoms? Maybe. But I like to say that the system worked in getting me to a place where support was possible. but it failed to give me that actual support when I was there. So I get out and I'm immediately back on my mission and my theory.

45:55And three days later is when I tried to kill my dad. I think people would love to know what in your mind could convince you I must slash dad's throat. So, you know, I had this Facebook page when I was sharing my theory. I was supposed to get married on Sunday before that day. It happened on a Monday. And the way that psychosis was, it justifies when things go wrong, right? There's always a way to justify. At least that was my experience. Sorry, I can't speak to everyone's. Even though I had gone to the church several times and my ex-girlfriend was never there because she was never going to marry me, I was like, oh, Sunday's the day.

46:34And that makes sense because it's God's day. Why would I get married on a Sunday? So I go there at like one o 'clock in the morning. So again, still not sleeping. And I go through this very bizarre experience of like a self-sacrifice. I mean, there is some wild shit happening in my mind and just in my mind. But basically, I don't get married. So now I'm lost. I'm starting to become lost. The things are not lining up in the way that they should be. Yes. And I'm starting to get really confused. Scared. Scared. Yeah. And looking for signs in any way that would make sense to me. Yeah. So that day, on Monday, I was supposed to go to school, work, and I don't.

47:14I do go back to the church, thinking once more, maybe she'll be there, she's not. So I go home, and on my way home is when I had this idea, back to colors, that red was Satan, and I had to remove all the red things in my car. So I stop at this restaurant called Steve's Place. There was this connection to my uncle, Stephen, with this place for some reason. And it was also like a white and red building. When I break into this restaurant, I throw all my red stuff into this place, and then I bleed red. A lot of things happen that just continue to foster this uncertainty and confusion about what I was supposed to do with my mission.

47:49Right. And then you go home, and you're in there before Dad, or Dad's there before you? I'm there before my Dad. You know, I had stopped at this, like, old junkyard outside of town to dispose my car because I couldn't get the tat lights off because they were red. Yeah. So my grandma picks me up. She takes me there and she tells my dad. So my dad shows up while I'm already there. How does your dad look to you? What is he representing to you? So being a fuel driver, you know, he often wore black pants and black shirt under his uniform. He's wearing these black clothes. And also black was associated with evil and demons.

48:22Wow, we're literally all wearing black today. You're right. He was frustrated, right? Because I wasn't doing what I was supposed to do. I wasn't going to college. He's so scared. He's so uncertain himself. He loves you so much. He's taking you to all the places. And here I am just almost throwing it away to some degree. So he's frustrated and justifiably so. But he has these red cheeks, right? Because he's getting mad. Because he's mad. Yeah. When I talk about intervening when someone's in crisis, right? De-escalation is one of the top things that is very key to helping someone in that type of state.

48:58And my dad did the opposite. Sure, sure. But that wasn't the only sign. I was on my phone, again, going back to this theory, and there was several things that happened on the phone that brought me to that state of mind. But you're convinced your father has been taken over by Satan. And do you think you're going to liberate your father by killing him? Or you might not even be able to remember that. There was two specific signs on my phone that led to me thinking that the devil was in my dad, in combination with his black uniform and cheeks. It was a random Facebook message that literally said Satan.

49:28And this was a real message. Like I went back and I pulled this message from the Facebook profile. And it was real. It was just some coincidental message. Oh my God. Sometimes strange shit just fucking happens. So there was that message. And then there was another image just on my Facebook feed that was like someone smashing their hands on someone else's head. And this angry ghost was flying out from this person. And there was some like yellow and orange colors near that action. So I connected the dots while my psychosis connected the dots. I had to save the world with my theory. Now the devil's in the picture.

50:01The devil has to go. Right. Oh, my God. And the devil was inside my dad. And you see a knife with a white handle. You know, it had, like, this holiness aspect to it. So I was like, that had to be the knife that I would use. And I didn't want to kill my dad. And when I read the police records after this, I say this in my statement. I did not want to kill him. I wanted to save us. Kill Satan. I wanted to kill Satan to save us. So my intention was never to hurt my dad. But that's just how my psychosis narrative ended up. So you grab the knife and you go at dad? I make some motion behind him. I'm also really troubled at this moment too because I'm like battling with this idea of killing him because it's like this can't be the next step.

50:48Like I'm really challenged by this. This is the biblical moment where the guy has to kill his son to prove his love to God. It's like that test. Basically, yes. That's how it felt. I was like, this is the ultimate test. I was pacing back and forth, saying this can't be the next step, this can't be the next step. I have the knife. At some point, the knife gets out of my hand. I start finding something else. My dad was remodeling at the time, so there was drills and stuff in the house, but none of it was white. It was all red or black, so I had to use that knife. Tell us about the physical struggle that happens.

51:22We're about the same height. He might be a little shorter than me now, but he was definitely bigger, stronger, 50 pounds heavier, being a laborer for all his life. I was still an athletic kid, but he's stronger. And he's your dad. Thank God, yeah. He's got dad strength. He does. He does have dad strength. Now you have dad strength. I do. I do. That dad bodge, you know? So we start to fight, and he fights me off. I think he punches me at some point. At some point, we tumble onto the ground. And in that heat of the moment, I just, for some reason, bit his ear as like a reaction to like losing the battle.

51:55Like bit his earlobe off. The piece of his earlobe off right at the bottom. He still has the scar today. He and Holyfield have a lot to talk about. Exactly. They ever run into each other. And then, you know, at some point, I have the blade at his throat. I keep coming at him. I'm not even me. It's life or death and for the whole universe. Yeah. So at some point, I have the blade at his throat and he's blocking it with his thumb. and at some point he's just like, I got to get out of here. And he does. And he bolts. His hand gets cut pretty bad. He then runs out of the house. He runs out of the house.

52:27And I had this moment of like, what the fuck did I just do? You did have a little snap of clarity. A little snap of clarity. And I was like, holy shit, did I actually do that? And I run out of the house. I'm looking for him because I'm like, sorry, dad. I'm sorry. And I go out by our dog cage to look at my dog. It was a cute little husky that we grew up with. And that's when the police arrived. Also, Grandma was here during this whole thing? Grandma was there the whole time. And actually, at some point, when she was trying to stop me from completing my mission, I had a thought that I had to kill her.

53:00Right. But she was wearing a green shirt. She was wearing a green shirt. Oh. Okay. What is a green shirt? And that's good. Green was good. Yeah. Yeah. This is a total digression, but the brain is so fucking fascinating. It's just so endlessly fascinating. Because I have had a couple of those moments of complete clarity when clarity should be completely impossible. Like my level of inebriation, right? Yeah. Or like I got in this situation where a guy tried to mug me and I was on top of him in the street in Santa Monica at 3 in the morning. There's nowhere to break it up. I'm afraid he's got a gun.

53:31I'm banging his head in the ground. And I was hammered. And I all of a sudden like a bolt of lightning was like, oh, you're killing someone. This is that thing that happens and you're doing it and you need to stand up and leave. But it's like, I don't know where that bolt came from of like super object clarity of like, oh, this is happening. Get away from this. It's wild. And it happened again right after this moment because when I'd gone out to the dog cage, police officers were pointing their guns at me. They were ready to arrest me. They're like, raise your hands, raise your hands because that's what they do.

54:03And I did. Right. Instead of running, because they're wearing black, instead of bolting, I have this moment of raise my hands, get them up. And thankfully I did because I think if I didn't, if I ran, I'd probably not be here right now. Yeah, or if you're still holding the knife. There's 80 ways this could have gotten worse and worse and worse. It's really a miracle. A terrible miracle that brought you here and a terrible miracle that keeps you from— Yeah, yeah. And you're very good about, at the beginning of the book, listing, like, there's so many people that it didn't go that way. There are, in the U.S., 300 parents a year are killed by their kids.

54:38Really? It's 2 % of all homicides. Really? I would never have guessed that. And you go into it, and that's how I want to end this, is like all the things we should know and how we help deal with all this. But it makes so much sense because your interaction with your family is going to be the most interaction you have. Yeah. You know, there's all these different reasons why, in a bizarre way, it's kind of predictable. Anyways, you are arrested and you're put in jail. Tell me what happens after that. Yeah, so I think I'm on my way to hell. The mission continues, basically, but now I'm going to hell.

55:11I failed the mission. There's glimmers of hope in jail where I think I can escape. I think I can fight Satan. And I mean, at that point, I'm just experiencing so many hallucinations and delusions just for about a week into jail. Solitary confinement. At some point, I think I'm on the outside of the universe, and I see the universe on the floor. I wouldn't eat because the food smelled like dead bodies. Here comes the gustatory and olfactory delusions. Oh, man. And I think time had a big factor in me coming back. Also, I remember one of the professional officers giving me a book about an architect.

55:45I can never remember what the name of the book was. I would love to find it again. But I remember starting to read that book in solitary confinement, and I like to think that it started to really ground my thoughts and just maybe help me come back to realize where I was. And when do they start medication on you? So it would take a while to get prescribed. You know, the psychiatrist there had checked in on me often throughout that week. And basically once they realized that I was back to myself, I could vocalize that I'm in jail. Right? Because they kept asking me a question. Do you know where you are?

56:15Do you know where you are? Right. When I could finally say I'm in jail, that was a sign to them like, okay, he's coming back. They moved me to a general population area so I could get out of my cell, interact with the other people in the jail. And that's when I started to take the medication. And at that point, I had a huge cognitive shift in my mind because I was like rock bottom. I was like, holy fuck. I'm going to do my hardest to understand why it happened because I don't ever want to happen again. Yeah, my full mission now in life has to be preventing that from occurring again. Okay, at this point, there's a potential of probably 10 years in prison on the table.

56:55Two felonies. Yep. One for breaking that window, criminal mischief. And the other one was an assault against my dad. So the felony with my dad, it got rid of, fortunately. Because your father wouldn't press charges, right? My father didn't want to press charges. I feel like he felt like he was pushed to do that. He writes me a letter without his name because we had an order of protection, too. He's still obviously going through his own trauma challenge, but he's still more than willing to help me get out of jail. It's really interesting. Like, had I heard this story before I had kids, I'd have one opinion.

57:29And then hearing the story, having kids, all of it makes so much sense to me. Like, yeah, either of my daughters could try to kill me. And 100 % the next day I would be there to help them get out. I just couldn't ever click into, let's throw them away. It would be impossible. And all I would feel is sadness and pain and hurt for them, not really anger and defensiveness, you know? Yeah, that's how my dad felt. That unconditional love, he really stuck by my side. And I thought at that time, like, he was never going to talk to me again. I was terrified. You've come out of this thing, you know how vulnerable you are now.

58:08You know, it's anyone who's got a disease that is terminal, that comes into remission. Like you just live with this thing hovering over your head. So it's like you're dealing with that reality. But then even I think probably worse than that is like, I tried to kill this man I love more than anything who's been nothing but loving to me. Have I ruined that forever? That piece to me feels as scary as the other thing that's looming. Yeah, and honestly, I had gotten several letters from my family and friends that first day I came back and into the general population cell. I just remember reading all through these letters.

58:38I'm bawling because I'm just like, there's still hope here. I was not feeling very hopeful, but those letters made the biggest difference. Yeah. It's lovely. It's so important to love people when they're at the very worst. And to tell them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you get out in 30 days? Yeah, which is amazing in and of itself because they didn't have to. The psychiatrist that I'm seeing is amazing. She's balancing this firmness with me like, kid, you're in the fucking deep water here, but also a very empathetic and caring nature because she really understood seeing me in the cell. Yeah, this isn't your fault, but it is your fucking responsibility now.

59:15Yes, that just brought me to a point where I was like, I can do this. And I get out of jail after 30 days and I'm ready to start anew. Who's in the parking lot? So when I go to the courthouse, you know, I'm chained up, I'm in a green uniform, I stand before the judge and I agree to everything, whatever he had said. In that moment, I was just like, I don't even remember what he was saying for the most part, but I'm not sure if I'm leaving. I don't know. I'm just lost. At some point, an officer comes by, unchains me, and lets me out the door. And it's a sunny day in our small little town, and there's my dad just standing by the car.

59:51Oh, I love him. I love him. Yeah, they share a big hug. It's like, yeah. Again, this story has so many miracles, beautiful things mixed with tragedy. I see the scar on his ear. Oh, wow. And I'm just like, holy shit, that really happened. But yeah, he came in for a hug. Aww. Aww. Oh, fuck, dude. Aww, what a good thing. Oh, man. Wow, powerful. Now, here's a piece of the story that I didn't see coming. And I have to say it makes me nervous because I know some people who have a lot of things and they won't take their medication and it drives me insane. So you decided to wean off the medication. I was very hesitant on doing that.

1:00:33So basically my conditional discharge was I had to see substance use group therapy, substance use counselor, nurse practitioner, mental health counselor, four things every week. I didn't even need to be told to do that. I was like all about it. I was like, I'm going to take full advantage of all these resources in my community. And it was actually my nurse practitioner. I'm taking 10 milligrams of Zyprexa. They started me in that in jail. So I'm continuing to take that. You know, he has at some point an idea to potentially wean me off. Can I ask you, is it miserable being on that medication? Yeah.

1:01:06So when I was taking it, it reduced my creative thoughts. It made me feel sedated all the time, like struggling to think and foggy. Like, definitely. I don't think anyone wants to be on medication. I guess for us on the outside, we're constantly looking at everyone going like, okay, you're foggy versus the other. Like, we're a little bit like, you know, fuck you. If I'm being dead honest, and probably a lot of people are listening, they'll feel this way. It's like, yeah, tough shit versus, you know. So I don't know. I just want to deal with that. I think a lot of people will be curious about that.

1:01:35Yeah, and I still get that. But how I view medication and how I learned through that in my therapy was that it's a very ineffective tool to kind of be in a place where, to me, what was most important to my recovery was the therapy. Talking through it, learning the skills, learning about the symptoms, having these terms, having this knowledge and practicing with it. I was hesitant to go off medication, but I would have not done that without a professional's guidance. That is very, very important. So since he was willing to work in that space, all my treatment providers knew that I was tapering, starting to taper off.

1:02:09Yeah. Right. And is it fair to say in this process, you're also learning these actually don't come out of nowhere. Sleep is an enormous piece that's integrated in this. Your diet, using weed. You're learning like, oh, there are a lot of things lead up to this. Is that fair to say? Yeah. And I would use the eight dimensions of wellness. I'm not sure if you're familiar with those. No, tell us those. but it's spiritual wellness, intellectual wellness, physical wellness, emotional wellness. Oh, man. It's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I remember you have the mental illness, the diagnosis, the DSM-5, which gives you this language to help you understand these symptoms.

1:02:48That's one part of it. And then you just have general mental health and wellness where like you're working on making sure that you feel like you're financially well, you're physically well and that you kind of feel good in those spaces as well because when you start to lose some of those things they add stress, they add pressure Yeah, stress is the one I left out that's huge Yep, stress was a big trigger when I'm under high pressure and stress is when I start to really feel unwell Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert If you dare

1:03:28So you start applying all these things and then you get kind of a list of things to look out for. Like, can you be objectively good at recognizing when it's slowly starting and what's been your, cause that was 10 years ago, the situation with your dad. Yeah. From leaving and a year afterwards, titrating off of the medication and having like a game plan. What's been the ride over those nine years with that approach? Recovery is hard work. It's not easy. And it's a never-ending process of change, internal change, and constant diligence. NAA, we say you get a daily reprieve. I actually have this tattoo on my arm, right?

1:04:05It's the mental health ribbon. And it's my daily reminder to always think about my mental health and where I'm at. And that's how I approach it, right? And the skills that I was learning in therapy, I continued to go on to practice them. And when I got to grad school... You had been kicked out of your school, we should say. Oh, yes. Completely kicked out of your school. Expelled, yep. And are you even nervous to start that process again? Like, will that be another trigger? Will I get stressed in returning? I don't know how one evaluates which things are going to be too much. I mean, yeah. I had to go before the college and testify.

1:04:33And I remember being actually triggered in the moment because it's a corporate field. People in black suits and microphones on the table. And I have to sit here and tell my story so I can get back into college and finally finish my undergrad degree, right? And my dad has to do it with me. And he does it, though. and he breaks down. I get back in. It was triggering in the moment. It was definitely not easy, but I was doing the work to do what I had to do to get my life back on track. It's funny to know how your life makes sense in reflection only, but, you know, this whole running history, this is where that comes into play.

1:05:06It's like you have lots of experience with extreme dedication and routinized behavior. This isn't your first go with... You know how to be disciplined if you need to be. Yeah, that I attribute to my athletic identity that drive that character to just be dedicated to something. Push through pain, push through discomfort. Yeah, and that definitely helped me get on that path. So you end up, yeah, you get a master's, you become a social worker. Have you had any periods where you've had to return to the medication? In my graduate school, the first sign of a mental health challenge, what did I immediately do?

1:05:43Go see a therapist. I always kept the medication door open. It's a very important tool. I never would ever push against that. But my first step was to see a therapist. Do what I loved, which was to talk about what I was going through. So that's what I did in grad school when I started to be really challenged because there was a lot of stress and pressure. I had an on-campus job. Like, master's in social work can be demanding. A lot of classes. I don't go back on medication, but there is, when I get ready to graduate with my master's degree, I'm struggling to find a job. And I had like a dozen interviews probably, and I just could not get a job.

1:06:16Part of me always felt it was like these news articles. We didn't talk about the news articles, but after the incident, you know, my name was in the headlines. This man who bit off his dad's ear, crazy person. There were seven articles. So like, I'm really struggling with this job search. I think it's that. I think it's multiple things. And there was a time I had actually had to move back home to my dad's house after graduating. And I was really defeated because I had done all this work. And financial wellness was a very important part. You need a job, right? Yeah. job. So I was like very stressed out.

1:06:46And I got to another crisis point at this moment where I was willing to take myself to the hospital. Okay, good. Of course, the paradox of it all is like, you need your mind to evaluate whether you're losing your mind. It's very tenuous. Yeah. And I was willing to go back on medication when I had kind of got to the point where, it's actually a very touching story. So I actually had a job interview where I went to grad school. It was a seven-hour drive from my home, and I got the hint that my interview didn't go so well. And this was after a 12-failed interview, so I was like, I'm not going to get this job.

1:07:20And I'm driving home on this long drive. It's late at night, and I'm starting to fester on everything. I'm having rapid thoughts about everything that was going wrong in every single interview. Just bam, bam, bam. I get home. It's late at night. I say goodnight to my dad. I didn't want to be vulnerable with him. I was not in the headspace to open up about what I was going through. I was just like, I'm going to go straight to bed. and I go into my bedroom and I can't sleep. Yeah, you're ruminating. Ruminating. And at like 3 o 'clock in the morning, I look at my alarm clock and I'm just like, holy shit, I should be sleeping right now.

1:07:51This is not good. And then there's a light coming through my window from my neighbors and it's a bit too symmetrical. Oh, boy. And I'm just like, I'm really, really unwell. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's when I was like, I want to go to the hospital. Yeah, good for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought about waking up my dad. I thought about calling my friend Finn, but that's shame and stigma. I had also like woken up my dad late at night before during all of this. So I was like, I feel like he's going to be afraid and it's not going to go well. So I did what I knew I could do, which was mindfulness meditation.

1:08:24I had practiced this, right? Over the years, this is three or so years after the incident at this point. So I've gone through this process and I was aware of these symptoms, right? At some point, I may have not been able to be aware of it, but I was aware of it. and I was able to catch it in the moment and I did what I knew what I could do. I put on my headphones, I put on an instrumental playlist and I meditated and I put my hands on my chest. Because you were dysregulated, extremely dysregulated and there's all kinds of tools that get regulated and this is one of them. And I fall asleep for like a couple hours and then I wake up at like 6 a.m.

1:08:54and I'm still feeling like this feeling like I still got to do something. So I go to the living room and I wait for my dad to wake up and I'm thinking about how I want to purchase with my dad because I want to tell him. And this is, you know, keep in mind the same space where everything happens. So he sits down, and before he turns on the TV, because he always did that, I was like, Dad, I need to tell you something. And I said, I'm very unwell. I do not feel good. Yeah, good for you. Yeah. And it was clear to me in my dad's response that he had done some work with his mental health as well because he kept the space de-escalated.

1:09:26He worked with me. He helped me find a resource that actually happened to be right in my community where I could access crisis intervention therapy. Great. Which I would compare to like urgent care, right? I didn't have to go to the hospital, but I could get a therapy appointment with a crisis therapist in a couple hours. So I go there and it turns out I didn't have to go to the hospital. I just had to make mental health my priority again. Basically, his instruction was to just focus on your day-to-day chores, like your sleep chores. Go for a run if you can. Do that for a couple weeks. Forget about the job because that was the big stressor.

1:10:00Yeah. I'm always astounded by how much overlap there is with all these things. They seem so different. But like this is the same roadmap for addiction, right? Which is like there'll be all these guys will be like, well, I can't go to a meeting because I have X, Y, or Z or I got my kids this and I have this work thing. And it's like, yeah, but you'll have none of that shit permanently if you don't make this number one priority. That stuff is only a result of you keeping this number one priority in check because the other stuff you think you need to miss it for, you'll lose. It's hard to get us to accept that.

1:10:34That's hard to accept. This is so hard. Wow. So in just doing that, the refocusing, fuck the job, we're not getting anything if we don't get right, was effective. Good for you because you were able to recognize, like, it's happening and I got to get on the right track. Still kept the medication door open there, right? I was like, one of the first things I actually said to the crisis therapist, like, I'm going to go back on meds. Give me something. He held back. He's like, let's try this first. Wow. I started to see him weekly. He was monitoring me. We were working together and I didn't have to go back on meds.

1:11:03And then a few weeks later, I had another job interview. Or not a few weeks. It was probably a couple months at this point. I had another job interview, and then I got the job. Oh, wow. And now you work for the New York State Mental Health? Office of Mental Health. Office of Mental Health. So I do suicide prevention. I work more in like a system, you know, statewide approach to designing programming, advocacy. That's just how my mind operates. I like to think in systems. But, you know, being in the Office of Mental Health, like they have an office around peer specialists, which is people with lived experience who can help provide another valued support system for someone aside from your traditional clinical support.

1:11:40Yeah, like a sponsor in some ways. Yeah, there's many spaces to go here, and I'm just happy to be a professional in this space. Yeah. And now you also do public speaking, and you're a huge advocate to spread awareness. So what is your approach? I think you're great, and you should list some of them. as much as you focus on like some of the aces in childhood you're very readily listing all the many lucky things that were happening in your life the first time i shared my story i wrote a blog post for the national alliance of mental illness i actually mainly did that because of those news articles because i wanted to regain who i was reclaim yourself and that kind of turned into like when i did that i got all these responses from people that were like wow thank you for sharing a story.

1:12:25So I didn't go in that direct service work, but I was starting to experiencing the impact of being vulnerable in the public space. And that kind of started to fuel this drive for me to share my story in much greater depth. And that's kind of how I ended up with, you know, the book. Well, and you reached out to a guy who had written a book about his brother killing their mother. Vince Granada, incredible man. When I reached out to him, I was at some draft in my book. And when I read his book, because it had just come out, I just related so much to his story. Although he brings a very different brother perspective, but I was like, I got to reach out to him.

1:13:01And I did. And I did not expect a response. You know, cold calls, you never get responses that often. But he responded and we connected, we met, and we just had this great bond. And he ended up writing a beautiful foreword to your book. He became another role model for me. And when I think throughout my story, my dad has always been consistent, But Coach Dan was a role model. The psychiatrist in jail was a role model. The person who's my supervisor and my master's degree for my job on campus was a role model. And Vince became my next role model. And your best friend. And my best friend. Yeah. And I'll add, the other siblings that lived in the other houses with less resources, some end up in jail.

1:13:42They had a rough road, a lot of your siblings, yeah? Yeah, they did. I mean, I won't go into a lot of details about their experience, but there's been a history of mental illness, addiction. I've gotten to a position where I've had a lot of success. And I think there's a great privilege in my story that I had my dad and running that helped my trajectory as compared to my siblings. Not every kid finds hope. Right. Yeah. Do we have any sense of what percentage of the population is wrestling with this? One in five experience mental illness at some point in their life. I don't know the exact percentage of psychosis.

1:14:17I think it's a smaller percentage, right? It's usually not common. It's pretty uncommon. And then going towards the violent aspect, right? Because that's a unique part to my story. 4%, I think, is the number that says that kind of results in some violent acts. Yeah, only 4 % of people with delusions and psychosis will be violent. But they tend to get the most attention, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I don't think people need to be overly alarmed about that aspect. Again, it's a very small percentage. But for the people who are listening who have someone in their life, because, yes, as rare as it is, I know two people, they haven't gotten violent, but they've left for months and done stuff.

1:14:53You're like, what is happening? Yeah. And so all the people in this sphere, if you think people want to do with addiction, no one knows what to do in the medication issue and all this. So, like, what do you advise people who might have a loved one in this situation? What's the best approach? I get this question when I do my keynote presentations. I get a lot of parents reach out to me, and it's always the most difficult situations. And I'm just like, I don't have an easy answer. Well, de-escalation right there, that's a good thing to have heard. Yeah. And maybe even indulging the delusions while we get you to the safe place.

1:15:28Like, these are kind of simple things that I think maybe are helpful to know. Definitely, and I think I try to be that role model. That source of inspiration is a peer with lived experience who, you know, if someone is going through this and they hear my story or someone else's successful story, maybe they'll potentially come to a realization that they need help. It's a treatable condition. I find the system to be very annoying in that so much of the mental health space is voluntary. Like you have to check yourself into places unless something has escalated to this very scary thing. It's frustrating because as we were just saying, your brain has to tell you that you're in trouble.

1:16:10And when you're deep in the psychosis, it's not going to do that. Then they're not going to check themselves in. And I just hate that. The powerlessness of it. Exactly. Both my hospitalizations were involuntary. I didn't want to go there. Yeah. I immediately resented that. It created this wall that I was just like, fuck no. It's such a complicated scenario because, you know, I was driving around 100 miles per hour. Because I believe the universe protected me. You can't do that. Yeah. Like if a police car chased me, I don't know what would have happened. My story could have been very different.

1:16:39And this was before the incident, right? The violent aspect was only one result, but many other things could have happened before that. It's something I think we're still figuring out how to approach this because it's super complex. It is. Yeah, you also have to protect individuals against the state from willy-nilly being able to take people. You know, there's a lot of things you're weighing against one another. When police are involved, it does seem like it gets taken more seriously, which is something to maybe consider. And I think if you look at the history of psychiatry and this, where like lobotomies were a thing, you know, going back to the cuckoo's nest.

1:17:17Yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't have a great history in this space. I think we've made a lot of progress in the community mental health space. I just think it's such a long-term game to some degree to where we've gotten to a place where people can be open with the most severe instances and get the help that they need and not be shamed by that. And not being, yeah, excommunicated from society is huge. Again, you're like one of the first alcoholics to be in public saying, yeah, I'm a recovering alcoholic. No one did that in the 50s. And now no one has a problem doing that. And I would hope that's exactly where we're trending with this and the sociopathy and all of it.

1:17:54All of it, yeah. What a rebound, dude. So you've been with a woman now for three or four years. You had to tell her you're on a date and you're like, I got to get out in front of this. She's going to Google me. I never truly felt that my ability to overcome the trauma and find my resilience was really valued, right? It was always the opposite where people would hear my story and they'd be like, get away. Right, scared of you. Yeah, I'm too scared. That has and still continues to be actually a looming shadow, although I've found a healthy way of doing it and finding a significant other, right? I wanted to find someone who I could live with and grow a family with.

1:18:33So I had to really consider how to approach that when I was on the dating scene. So I chose a social worker. You know, people who I know. Trend high empathetically. And understand the space. It's a risk assessment. She's a social worker. She might be open. You know, very strategic with how I interjected my past, left the door open. She had the choice. It was our third date. You know, if it stopped, it stopped. Right. We'll move on. Yeah. But she was open and she continued seeing me. But people in her life discouraged it. I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure. I also think of, again, another overlap with being an addict is like you have to tell people.

1:19:12And what you're signing up for is like people monitor you more. Mm-hmm. And that is what it is. You deserve it. It's how it's got to be. But also, no one loves being monitored. You know, like no one loves that sense of people are like trying to evaluate all the time. Like just studying you, that's kind of a little bit of an uncomfortable feeling. I guess it's just the deal. That's what it is. But it's not the best feeling, right? It's not. And I definitely, with people who don't really have an open conversation with me about my past, I sense that all the time. Right. But what we've created in our relationship is that it's an open door.

1:19:51And it's not just about me, right? She has struggles with anxiety. She has her own thing. None of us are fucking. Yeah, everyone has stuff. It's the family interpersonal culture there that we both happen to be good talkers in the sense of social work too. So that helps just having that background. But like we've created a space where like if I'm going through another challenge, I'll be open with her about it. If I'm going through something and I'm not really aware of it, she's in touch with the signs and would know what to do to step in and get me the help that I needed, right? You're co-piloting.

1:20:24Co-piloting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Not being oppressed, you're co-piloting. Yeah, and if you're understanding of yourself, then hopefully you are open to being co-piloted. You're open to someone. Yeah, yeah, and you have to be. I was just sharing in the, like, it's not great. It's like, I just do a normal thing someone else would do, and all of a sudden it's like, wait, what? And I'm like, you know, like, it's just that feeling of, like, everyone, no? It is kind of like the thing we were talking about earlier of, well, sorry you have to be foggy. Like, the rest of us don't. Sorry. If I was someone else, I'd have that opinion of me.

1:20:55And as the person that is in the situation, sometimes it's just like. Yeah, I understand. You know, hey, I want autonomy too. This might not even be fair to do, but I got to say, I've watched a few different docs on psychosis. And there is this really common pattern where people think they're the Messiah. There's good and evil. It's Satan. Yeah. And I'm going to be very exact with my language. I love religion for people who benefits their life. But I will say that is my issue with the whole thing. This notion of evil. Again, the delusions emanate from inside. So you somehow have picked up along the way, even though you guys weren't like crazy religious, this really, I think, caustic concept of evil in Satan and God and perfection and good and bad.

1:21:43And I think it's so fucking dangerous and it's in there. And if you feel like you're fighting to defeat Satan, you're capable of anything. I just wonder what psychosis looks like on an alternate planet where those concepts don't even exist. Yeah, it is so fascinating that there's that common thread with psychosis. And even big ideas of science, too. That was a part of my story with E equals MC squared being associated with my sentence and all that. These big existential ideas. And I don't think this really probably talked enough about the framework of psychosis. psychosis. And that's something I really tried to make a part of my book.

1:22:17It's called Mending Reality. Because when you break from reality, when you have this break, you're in this other world, this other space. And it is kind of like you're trying to know. I think that's why there's that thread, because you're trying to find some sense of greater understanding. And it's the simplest story. Yeah. It's such a simple, clean story. There's good, there's evil. There's Satan, there's God. It's very grounding and it's very comforting. And you see it, you see the churches, I think that's why it becomes kind of a part of it. And you're right. I read this great book called Maniac, or there's no one, everything we know ceases to exist.

1:22:52There's a lot of these physicists who have come up with these things in psychotic states, psychosis states. One in particular, this guy who has this crazy allergy during spring. He gets all these hives. He has to go to a little island in Germany. He's got a nurse caring for him. He loses his mind for six days. And in that time, he writes down all these matrices. And when he comes out of them, he doesn't understand them. He doesn't know where they came from. And they are the math that proves quantum physics. And it's like, what is that? Yeah, that's fascinating. How do we like have the psychosis we want?

1:23:26I listened to your podcast with Michael Pollan talking about utilizing mushrooms and these psychoactive things to kind of get in that space where you're experiencing some form of psychosis to some degree. Alternate reality to get into a space where you could think like that. Well, I was thinking so much as I was reading your descriptions of these things. I'm like, oh, yeah, I've been there. But when I've been on lots of psychedelics, the voice is still present that goes, this is just the shrooms. This is just the acid. And then without that voice, that's the only difference. Yeah. Right? I could go like, oh, this is that and it'll end.

1:24:04Yeah. Well, it's a beautifully written book. You're a very good writer. I'm so glad you came to talk about this. It's called Mending Reality, An Advocate's Existential Journey with Mental Health. And it's out now. I really encourage people to read it. It's a beautiful, touching story. Tell your dad we said hello. I know. I really like your dad. Will you give him a big hug for me? I will. Yeah, tell him I hope to be the dad that he has proven to be. He'll be listening. He called me on my way out here. And he's like, is it Monday? Is it like live? And I'm like, they record it. It's going to come out at some point.

1:24:36She's so supportive and sweet. Is it live? Is he so happy to be a grandpa? Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. That's so sweet. Fire up the fucking truck. Oh, he's got a muscle car. What's his? It's a roadrunner. Yeah, a roadrunner. 68 Plymouth Roadrunner. 68 Plymouth Roadrunner. Silver. Yeah, good for him. Yeah. That's his other baby. He's got two kids. It is. Sometimes it's like, oh, who's more important? I don't know. It's a car collector. I don't know either. Well, Colin, so nice meeting you. Thanks so much for sharing your story. It's very important. Yeah, so brave in a world where people would be really wanting to hide this whole chapter of their life and move on.

1:25:14And I applaud you for not doing that. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, good luck with everything. Hi there, this is Hermi and Hermi. And if you like that, you're going to love the fact check of Miss Monica. Welcome to the fact check. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Oh, you're doing a character. Your first character is me. Do it again? No. Welcome, welcome, welcome. No, that's not how you sound. How do I sound? It wasn't an impression. It was another guy. Oh, really? Yeah, a competing podcaster. Who also says welcome, welcome, welcome. Yeah, he's copying. I'm not going to sue. Okay? You should.

1:25:56I'm not. I don't believe in suing. Yes, you do. Reliable, maybe. You know, there's a certain paradox with suing, which is, I think, so often the people that get sued. They don't have anything. I know. It's a real waste of time. I know, but it's justice. It feels like justice. Yeah. Have you ever sued anyone? No. Have you been sued? No. No. Okay. I think I had a threat of suing. Some light. There was some light threatening. Yeah. It didn't come through. It didn't materialize. No one's name's Sue anymore. Women? Yeah. Susan? I know, but. Susan Downey? Does anyone— Right. Right. Suzanne Sarandon.

1:26:41She doesn't go by Sue. No, you're right. Yeah, I don't know a lot of Su's. Yeah. I had an Aunt Sue. You did? Yeah. Did you sue her? That was the one I thought was so beautiful. Wait, what? Yeah. She's not my blood relative. It was my uncle's wife. Who? Your dad's brother's wife? Uh-huh. My dad's brother's wife. And I just thought she was so beautiful when I was a little boy. What did you look like? And she was so kind. That's nice. You thought she was beautiful on the inside. Both the inside and the outside. Yeah. She was just so generous to, you know, my mom, she worked too. But I think she worked nights.

1:27:17Somehow she was around in the summer when I'd be at my Papa Bob and Grandma's. We'd hang out at my cousin's house a lot. And she was always around to make macaroni and cheese. Oh, did she make mac and cheese Kraft? And it was so good. And like when your mom made it, it sucked. Well, we never had Kraft. We had fucking Crosscutter brand. What's that? Kroger in-house brand. It was called like Koss Cutter, but they spelled it with a K. It was garbage. I hate to disparage. Was it Koss and Cutter, both Ks? No, the C was a C. We weren't in the South. Oh, yeah. But Kroger's. Oh, right. K. Koss Cutter's.

1:27:53I think it was the brand of all this generic food they would sell us, my family. Okay. Yeah. And what I really wanted, because my papa bought, first of all, my grandma had worked for Kraft when she came up from Kentucky. Yeah. With the Honcho clan. They all went off murdering and thieving, but Grandma Yolas got herself a really good job at craft. She invented them. And worked there for long enough that she had a pension from there. Before she went and got her double master's degree and became a teacher. Yeah. So she had free mac and cheese for life. Well, the family was very loyal to craft because of that.

1:28:27So we had all the craft products. And then as you know, my Papa Bob worked for Wonder Bread Bakery, which either owned Hostess or Hostess owned them. Right. So Twinkies, Ding Dongs, the pies, all the Hostess products. All those. He would pick up from the thrift store. And with his discount, it was virtually free. Wait, from the thrift store? Yeah. So in their town of Livonia, there was a little standalone Hostess thrift store. And it's where all the damaged Hostess went. Cool. So you'd get a box of dented ding-dongs and it'd be like 90 cents. And then Papa Bob got some kind of discount. So it was one.

1:29:04He's like, how many do you want? And I'm like, just get as many as you think you can eat. I was like, I think I can eat 48 of those for sure. Wow. I was like, great, let's get it. It's$1. Dented ding-dong sounds like a diss, you know? It does. You dented ding-dong. Well, I had a dented ding-dong during my Peroni scare for a year. So for me, it really hits close to home.

1:29:33Is a ding-dong a penis? I guess it is. Oh. Get your ding-dong out of my face is a common. I think it's just dong. Yeah. I think ding-dong is just a dummy. It's also that, yeah. But a dong, a dick is also a jerk. You know, all these words, thank God, have multiple meanings. Dick is a jerk. Of course, of course. But why didn't your grandma and grandpa give your mom craft? If they were just getting it all the time for free, they should have just given that to your mom. Why does your mom have to have Kroger Krogs? Right, cross-cutter brand. Well, you know, yeah, maybe they should have sent us home with some fun stuff, but they also might have felt like that would have maybe offended my mom or hurt my mom's feelings that we needed groceries.

1:30:17Now, they did come out with a generic brand. It wasn't a generic brand, but it was a sub-brand, right? It wasn't as expensive as Kraft macaroni and cheese. If I recall, those were 49 cents a box. Really? When I was a kid, yeah. Wow. And there was a brand called... Draft? Golden. I'm going to look it up. Golden Harvest? Golden Harvest macaroni and cheese. Well, it just made me do golden macaroni and cheese in the 1980s. Golden Grain? Yep. Yes. So that was about a third less in price than the Kraft. It's the same brand behind Rice-A-Roni. Okay, great. It had bigger noodles, and it was damn good.

1:30:57I was like, okay, I can definitely live with golden grain. Was that it? Yeah, it's really good stuff. Oh. And cheap, but a little more expensive than Cost Cutter. Okay, so that's where it's fallen in the mix. Or you just had the black and white box of macaroni and cheese. That was also terrible. okay i also i didn't have mac and cheese um but then you know i'd go to friends houses and their moms would make it so good it was so good how did they make it that good and then finally my i like convinced my mom to make it yeah and then it wasn't good i'll tell you what parents i think do skim milk no i'll tell you exactly what happens because i've watched it happen in my own household the parents kind of rightly so they look at that directions and it says use a quarter cup of butter which is a half stick of butter my grandma didn't give a fuck she's like yeah eat 10 sticks of butter but i think my mom and most moms were like i bet we can get away with a quarter stick of butter instead of a half like i'm feeding my kid a half of a stick of butter margarine in my case Margarine.

1:32:09And so I think they skimp on the butter. And I even notice Kristen will prepare it that way. And when I make it, the kids are like, Dad, you make the best macros. I'm like, yeah. Well, you use two packs of cheese. I also use two packs of cheese and I use a full quarter cup slash half stick of butter. Yeah. I go, here's my thing. Like, if we're doing it. If you're doing it. Exactly. Do it. I agree. I think my mom used margarine and skim milk. And probably didn't put the right amount of margarine in. Maybe. I'm sure she was like, that's got to be too. It looks crazy. I know, but I used it. And I ate a whole box.

1:32:41So I'm like, I am eating a half stick of butter. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. I had to drink skim milk because I had high cholesterol. As a baby? Yeah. As a little kid. They knew you had, I don't think I ever had my cholesterol checked. Yeah, they would do physicals. And check your cholesterol. Yeah. And you had like the cholesterol of a seven-year-old man? I had high cholesterol as a kid. That's why it's like when I have it now, I'm just like, yeah, duh. I've had it since I was a baby. Literally a baby. I had it for 15, 20 years from whenever I was getting it tested until two years ago, three years ago.

1:33:16Yeah, I don't anymore, but I'm on statin. Mine is fucking like mid to low now. Are you on a statin? And I can't believe it. I'm not on a statin, but I'm on red rice yeast. Red yeast, yeah. Which is nature's statin. Golden grain statin. I think it's the same active thing that's in a statin. Yeah. Then additionally, I'm on a medication called Zetia, which old Dr. Richard Isaacson gave me. And that dropped it significantly. Yeah. And it doesn't work the same way as a statin. Right. I guess you can either attack on a cholesterol scenario. You can either attack how much there is, the overall, or how quickly your body absorbs it.

1:33:56Mm-hmm. He's like, I think you have an absorption problem. Uh-huh. Let's get you on Zetia. And that fucking overnight, Monica, I was like, well, now we're talking. This is what I was supposed to be. And I kind of almost resigned like it sounds like you have. Well, no, I'm on a statin and I'm on the GLP-1. And now it's normal. It's normal now. After all these years. Yeah. I hope you didn't do any damage. I hope it's all reversible. I mean, I was born with this. What am I supposed to do? I was just a baby, baby, baby. Yeah. No wonder your mom was cutting the margarine short. She's like, I can't feed this kid cholesterol.

1:34:29I know. She's going to have a coronary episode. Exactly. In fifth grade. But when you would go to your grandparents' house in Savannah. Yeah. Would they dump that butter in there and make it good? I don't think they made craft either. But my grandpa would, every day he'd pick me up something from like. Cassie's. Exactly. From crystals. Crystals. Like crystals every day. Yeah. This is what the grandparents. It's so fun. Or Taco Bell. Anything your heart desired. Anything I wanted. he would get it for me. He loved you. He loved me so much. He loved me so much. It's crazy. Yeah. So did my grandparents.

1:35:10Isn't it the greatest? He loved me till the end. That would have been a big chunk of our lives if we grew up the way we're supposed to. You're supposed to live with your whole fucking family. I know. And it would have been so nice. I'm talking about Aunt Sue. I know, but Aunt Sue might have turned on you. No. Yes, sometimes they turn. No, Ansu remained the sweetest woman. Oh, I'm sorry. I loved her. I love her. She's such a wonderful woman. How did she pass? Cancer. Oh. Yeah. Is Uncle Randy still with us? Fuck yeah. I was texting with him yesterday. He's in California. I actually flew home last night.

1:35:48But yeah, he's out visiting my cousins. And we tried to get a breakfast going. I was going to say you guys didn't see each other. We failed, but we tried. But no, Uncle Randy, every text he sends me, it's him playing either pickleball or full court basketball. He's always been an athlete. And it's just like he is reaping the rewards of that. That's great. Like my dad, I think about this all the time. I'm 51. I was hiking the other day. Yeah. And when I graduated college in 2000, I would have been 25, which meant he would have been 51. Who, your dad? Yeah, or 52. Okay. He could not do anything with us.

1:36:24Like they all came out for the graduation and we went to like Topanga to get my favorite sandwiches. And we took a little walk, not a, and he's like, I'll stay in the car. Everywhere we went, he kind of like couldn't get around. Because he was large. He was large. He just had been so hard on his body. Yeah. And he had so many heart attacks at that point. And yeah, I just think of our, I think about him so often now. Yeah. Because I'm at the age where I remember thinking, well, that's it for him. He's like not walking anymore. Oh my God. Fell asleep in the hot tub, that whole story. We got in a fight.

1:36:56Like, Dad, you can't be in the hot tub by yourself when I leave. What are you talking about? I'm like, well, because I woke you up. You were dead asleep in the hot tub, and your fucking nose was a quarter inch from the water. Yeah, but also imagine. I'll handle it. Okay, but imagine your kid now going up to you and saying, Dad, you can't go in the hot tub without us. You would be like, what the fuck? First of all, I'd be smart enough to go, okay, great, I won't. And then I would just go in and if that's what I was going to do, but I would have been smart enough to not get. No, I would recognize it for what it was, which is I was concerned about him.

1:37:29He should have felt loved. Fine. Forget it. If it's your kids, if I said it, then you'd be mad at me. Well, clearly, because I've not yet been discovered in a hot tub sleeping. I'm saying if you were and I was like, or you didn't know you were, but I was like, hey, just so you know, like, I don't want you to go in the hot tub again without anyone else there. You'd be like, fuck you. Yeah. And I'd be like, listen, I saw you almost die. I mean, this is a hard hypothetical because I have to imagine that that happened, that I passed out in the hot tub. Well, you've done some things that you don't like being called out on.

1:38:01I'm trying to think. That's a big statement. Maybe you think there's like three or four things in the chamber. But it happened last night. You fell asleep in the hot tub? I fell asleep. Jax. This is starting to happen. Listen, I said, we had a guest today and I had to watch that guest show. So we all got in bed and we were watching it. And like, you know, it wasn't voted. We had a detractor. We had one member that wanted to watch something else. Oh, okay. But three of us wanted to watch this anyways. And I said, or someone said, well, Dad has to watch this for work. So we'll watch your show tomorrow night.

1:38:33So we're watching our show that we are watching because I have to. Yeah. And I fell, I dozed off. Oh, that's okay. It was like eight o 'clock. We had had a big few days. Yeah, that's not falling asleep on the hot. But this is what woke me up, I hear. Well, if he's going to sleep through this whole thing, can we just turn my show on? I agree with that. And it's a great point. Yeah. So then I woke up indignant. No, I'm watching. I've been up this whole time. I said, a guy can't close his eyes for two minutes. Oh. You know, it's like being a funny grandpa. Oh. And then I was awake enough to finish the episode and then another.

1:39:11but I was like, oh yeah, we're at a phase where I fall asleep watching TV sometimes. I welcome it. I don't think that's an age thing. No, you know, when you're at like a Thanksgiving and it's past Thanksgiving and like all the men go watch football on the couch and about 45 minutes into the game, 60 % of the men are asleep. I would always watch that and just be like, what is up with these guys? They can't stay awake all day. You know, cause I was young. That's tryptophan. And also that is not an age thing. Like I think people fall asleep all the time at young ages. I think it increases as you get older for sure.

1:39:49Grandparents are always falling asleep. My grandma mid, she'd always go, I'm not sleeping. I'm resting my eyes. She was clearly asleep all the time. You know, she would fall. If she sat down for more than eight minutes, she would take a little nap. So, yeah, I think it's age related. And I think I'm there. You better listen when people tell you can't go in the hot tub. Well, I will say this gets me further down the road into accepting that you could discover me dead asleep dreaming in the hot tub. Yeah. Or not. What at the sauna? I was going to say sauna. That's more likely. You're too miserable to fall asleep in a sauna.

1:40:20No, but you could pass out and then die. Don't go in there anymore. I'm going to go in there right after work. I already think I already turned it on. But I'm going to stay wide awake. Okay. Okay. Oh, I have something I wanted to talk about. Okay. I had a really crazy sim. Oh, wow. Tell me. Really crazy. After the play. No. After Delta's play? Yeah, Delta's play. Okay. The day before Delta's play, Friday, I went to dinner with Jess and Anna at Oibar, a place in Studio City. Delicious. I really should. Again, I say all these places and then it can't get in anywhere and it's really annoying, but whatever.

1:41:00Oibar. Fantastic place. and we don't go there a lot. It's like, it's not in the rotation really. It's more random. That's the first I'm hearing of it. Yeah. Fantastic place. And we went and we had a server. Wonderful. Loved her. She was great. Have her dinner. Next day, we go to Delta's Play. After Delta's Play, we decide to go somewhere for an hour. You and Ana or are you Ana and Jess? Me and Ana, but then we texted Jess and said, We're going to Black Cat, another place we almost never go. Okay. Where is that located? Silver Lake. All right. Other side of town. Exactly. Not even anywhere close to Studio City where Hoy Bar was.

1:41:42So we go to Black Cat because it was so nice out and that was like outdoors. So we sit. Jess comes to meet us. He goes, that's our server from last night. Same server. Two different restaurants. not even close to the same part of town, not places we normally go. That is crazy. You think it's a duplicate? Yes. It's a duplicate. A dupe. Well, my thought would be, because you do like Black Cat. I like it, yeah. And you love the other place she works. I would be like, excuse me, where else do you work? I got to try that. Huh? Because she has good taste in where she works. That's true. I mean, we did say like, whoa, this is so weird.

1:42:27She was like, I know. Yeah. It seemed hard to juggle two serving schedules at two different restaurants. Are they owned by the same company maybe? No. Wow. Did she get into the logistics of her? She just said she needed two jobs basically. Yeah, but one allows her to, that just seems hard. Like they're going to call for sure on the same day. They don't. She's juggling it. Well, no, she's not because she's made up. She only does lunches one place and dinner. She's not real. Neil, are you listening? Oh, okay, I'm so sorry. She's a made-up lady. Okay. And she's a cutout. Oh, okay. And it's like really crazy.

1:43:02Where else will you see her? Exactly. What if she said, well, what if she had no memory of meeting you and then she had a different name? Well, I know. That's like we are going to see her again and she's not going to notice. And then Jess will be like, oh, my gosh, you. And then you'll see this little, like, a little flicker in the eye. Reboot. Okay. And then she's like, oh, yes. Oh, my gosh. Yes, I also work here. They'll just fed her a lie. Uh-huh. A believable lie. Yes. Yes, that they modeled on all these different AIs. Yeah. I think you guys should get her in the friendship group. She's busy working.

1:43:41Yeah, that's true. But I just thought that was so weird. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean. I mean, what's next? I know. I know. I got nervous. I did, you know, I was like, uh-oh. You know when we get, Eric says when it's getting too obvious, they're going to pull the plug on us. So, like, that did worry me because that was way too obvious. Two days in a row makes no sense. Yeah, yeah. Lazy. It's weird that AI is lazy because that's what we think they're industrious. Well, yeah. Maybe to save energy, they. Exactly. Save water. There's a bigger goal they're servicing or something. They have to save water that day.

1:44:17Water and power. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right, should we do some facts? Yes, please. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

1:44:36This is an intense episode. The bravery of Cohen is astonishing. It is. I hope people listen and give him what he deserves. I think they will. Yeah. This is a very fascinating, unique, privileged perspective to hear someone. I know. You hear about schizophrenia and psychotic breaks. You hear about it academically or reported on. Yes. You never hear from the person experiencing it. I know. I know. I feel quite lucky. Me too. We've gotten really lucky between the sociopath. I mean, it's so cool. Yeah, yeah. Borderline. Getting to hear the personal perspective has been so cool. It really has. It really has.

1:45:25And every time it makes me, it deepens my empathy. Same. Yeah. Same. It is. And this one really challenged my preconceived stance on the medication. I know. You've really been. Yeah. I've been kind of open to this notion that, yeah, it's one of the tools. Yeah. And yeah, you could say, well, why isn't every alcoholic on Antabuse for the rest of their life? That would be a solution. Yeah, that's a medicine that makes people— You throw up if you drink alcohol. Yeah. Yeah. How much can you drink on it? Like, you can't even have, like— No, I don't think you can. I've never been on it. Right. I know my dad was on it when he got out of treatment.

1:46:02It was, like, standard. Oh, wow. It used to be very standard when you got out of treatment. I don't know if it still is, but when my dad went in the 80s, you were recommended to be on Antabuse for, like, the first month out of treatment. Oh. Oh, is it a pill? It's a pill. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's like— What if it's a placebo? Like, if you're told this pill will make you throw up the second you drink alcohol, who tries it? Clearly, people have tried it. Well, definitely— But I wouldn't try it. I'm like, if I'm going to throw up the second I have it, I won't be able to get it in me. What is the point of trying?

1:46:34Wait, no, you don't throw up. You throw up from drinking. Yeah, as soon as you have alcohol. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The medication makes you throw up. Right. So you can't get blood in your alcohol or in your, you can't get alcohol in your bloodstream. Yeah. And you've just thrown up, which I don't mind, you know, as you've witnessed. I've become very comfortable. But if you throw up, then can you have more? Because if you're an alcoholic, yeah, throwing up doesn't do anything. You don't care. If it can't get in your body because you're going to throw up every time you have it. That's true. It just like prevents it from entering.

1:47:11Wow. So, you know, you could argue why every alcoholic should be on there for the rest of their life. Maybe some people should. I don't know. But, I mean, I'm with you. It's a deeper issue. There are things that are emotional and mental health based underneath that that need addressing. Yeah. And there's many, many things you could employ. And if those are not working, then you can use that. I know. It's tricky. I have a complicated relationship with medicine because I, and this is not fair probably, but it is a little fair because I am medicated. I'm like just fucking take it. For sure. But your medication also doesn't turn you into a zombie.

1:48:03Exactly. And I understand that. That's right. It does not affect me negatively that I know. I mean, you can imagine a scenario where the medicine makes life so unenjoyable to live that you just assume be dead. I know. That's exactly. And that is what the claim is. It's just like, yeah, so I know. It's complicated. But it's so hard. It's like I have categories. I'm up for that approach. I think you need a co-pilot. Like he's married. Yeah. He has someone in his life that can observe if he's not sleeping. Yes. He can observe a lot of things. Yeah. If you're fucking lone wolfing it, I think you should take the medicine.

1:48:45I know. It also just, and I know it's selfish on my part because I just can't stand the feeling of being around someone who I feel like might be unstable. Yes. Unpredictable. Unpredictable. That's very triggering for me. It gives you anxiety. Yeah, it gives me anxiety. Did it help to learn that only 4 % of schizophrenics are violent? I found that helpful. I guess my, you know, bar room understanding of it was like if you were schizophrenic, my hunch was like you have a 30 % chance of getting violent at some point. Well, not necessarily that you kill someone, but that you're going to be in a fight with cops or you're going to be in a fight on the street, you know.

1:49:28Yeah, for some reason for me, it's not even the violence part that's triggering. It's like what's going on in that person's mind. Yeah. I find that scary. I bet it's just something like alcoholism too where it's like it affects almost everybody. You think you're the only family dealing with it. But like I know now in my life several people who have disappeared for periods of time and they've done really wild things. Yeah. This woman that we knew very closely, family-ish member, just left her family. She bought a crazy car. She, you know, just was in five states over on some journey that no one could comprehend what she was experiencing.

1:50:12And then we have a friend that that's happened to. Like, I bet more people have maybe. I mean, I have, I can't go into too many details, but I have a very close person in my life that had a psychosis. Mm-hmm. And it was horrifying. Yeah. And, yes, everyone was not just affected then, is still affected. Mm-hmm. And constantly affected. And a constant, again, there's like. Low-level anxiety at all times. Always. Yeah. Always. And that's not their fault, you know, but that's why when it's like you're not taking your medicine, like, okay, well, now my anxiety. has to be higher. I mean, that's also, again, like it does.

1:51:02And I can work on myself and say like, that's not about me. I'm powerless over you. Exactly. But it's hard. It is really, really hard. And it does affect absolutely everyone in your orbit. It's hard to watch people you love hurt themselves. I know. Or hurt. Yeah. Yeah. Not have control over their brain. I mean, none of us have control over our brains, really. I guess it's a sliding scale. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's closer than we think. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, I'm not. That's then I had like major PTSD after a big incident. Yes. Because I was like, oh, I'm that's me. Like I'm I have that, too. Yeah.

1:51:43So is schizophrenia a genetic? Also, my dad's oldest brother had schizophrenia. Really? Mm-hmm. Wow. Much older than my dad. But, and I met him and he was the, he was very gentle. He was like a very nice, nice boy. And he had been an admiral or something too, right? No, this is, no. The oldest who, and like had a caretaker and stuff. I met him only when I was four in India. But he was like a nice boy. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Okay. Yes. Yes, it has a strong genetic component, but it is not determined by DNA alone. Genetics account for roughly 60 % to 80 % of the risk, meaning environmental factors and life experiences also play a critical role in triggering the condition.

1:52:31I wonder how many people just like have it latent and it's not been triggered. Oh, I think a lot of people make it through because, again, there's this window of vulnerability. Exactly. But like what if I have it? No, no. You've exited the window. No, I've exited the window for it to express itself in me, but what if I have the gene? You wonder if you have the gene. Oh, but it does say it's not caused by a single schizophrenia gene. Okay. So that's good. It's probably what we learned. What's it called? Polygenetic. Polygenetic. Yeah, I had a girlfriend whose mother was schizophrenic, and I remember then learning about it and going, ooh, I'm now scared.

1:53:10Yeah, it's scary. Yeah. It does say if one identical twin develops schizophrenia, the other twin has a 50 % chance of developing it despite sharing the exact same DNA. This is the strongest evidence that genetics are powerful but not the only cause. That would almost imply that half the people with it are getting it activated.

1:53:33Yikes. Oh, I just wanted to remind people of the ACEs. Okay. Do you want to take the test again? Nah. It's only five minutes. It's only five minutes? Yeah. Okay, sure. This is discovering your trauma type. This is a crude childhood... What is it? Yeah, Ace. Adverse childhood experience. Childhood experience. There we go. Okay. Rate each statement based on your personal opinion. I noticed... These are a little hard, though, because I have taken this a few times. Yeah, but this seems different for some reason. Like, food scarcity is an interesting one. Yeah. Like, no, I was never starving. Right.

1:54:09And also, you went to the store and you got, you know, there was a gallon of milk and there was X amount of ground beef. There was a period where it was like you were hyper-conscious of how much food there was. Yeah. You got in trouble if you ate too much of the food. Well, again, yeah, it's all— But that's not starving. It's not like I went days without eating. It's just like, oh, I remember there was a period where there was stress around the food in the house. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's hard for sure. Okay, so I'll read this real quick, but then the test, the five-minute test is different, but I still want to do it.

1:54:46Are you sure you're not going to have to pay at the end of it? I'm not sure, but I don't think so. Oh, boy. You're not sure. So for ACEs, there's categories. So it's like abuse and then under abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse. Then there's neglect under that physical neglect, emotional neglect. three household challenges under that mental illness in the household incarcerated household member substance use by a household member parental separation or divorce domestic violence um and then other common childhood stressors such as community violence systemic discrimination food insecurity and unstable housing yeah so that's in there but this fun test Fun ace test.

1:55:36Is about what kind of trauma or your trauma. Tell me about your trauma. Your trauma. Tell me about your trauma. Okay. Now, this is strongly agree. You know that whole thing. Yeah, yeah. I notice small shifts in people's moods immediately. Strongly agree. I often feel like I am, quote, on my own even when I'm in a crowd. Yeah. Agree. Okay. Oh, man. This is the other tricky part about answering these questions. Right. Now versus. Now versus most of my 20s and 30s. Let's do now. Let's do now. Let's see how your trauma has. So what do you think now? There's also neutral. I'm going to go between neutral and agree.

1:56:15But I think agree. I still think I got to do this or it's not. Yeah. Okay. I find it very hard to say no when someone asks for a favor. Disagree. Certain smells or sounds can instantly change my mood. I strongly agree. I am very cautious about who I let into my inner circle. Neutral. I prefer to sit facing the door in a restaurant or public space. Yeah, I strongly agree squared. I pride myself on not needing help from anyone else. Strongly agree. I worry that if I show my true feelings, people will leave. Agree. I sometimes feel like I'm reliving a past argument in my head. Oh, my God. Strongly agree.

1:56:56When am I not? There's no moment that in the background I'm not having an argument with somebody. An old argument. Yeah. I pay more attention to what people do than what they say. Agree. I'm easily startled by sudden movements or loud noises. Disagree. Except when Eric sneezes. Sneezes. That's human. That got us all. Yeah. That really got us. If you're not startled by Eric's sneeze, you're dead. That's the only time I think I've ever seen you like actually like. And then I got angry, right? Yeah. It makes me angry if I get startled. Oh, that was so funny. Oh, my God. Okay. I tend to shut down when a relationship gets too intense.

1:57:33That has been the pattern. That's, you know, not currently what I'm doing. Yeah, I agree. I feel responsible for making sure everyone around me is happy. Yeah, strongly agree. I have specific triggers that make me want to hide away. You're shaking your head yes. Okay, I'll say agree. I am always waiting for the other shoe to drop in a good situation. Yeah, strongly agree. I find it difficult to fall asleep if I hear unfamiliar noises. Yeah, yeah, I strongly agree. I feel trapped if someone depends on me too much. Yeah, strongly agree. I apologize even when I haven't done anything wrong. Oh, God, yeah, yeah.

1:58:09This is the endless, this is the shepherd. When you haven't done anything? No, just my brother and I are always in trouble. Oh. Every, like, first question is, am I in trouble? Oh, right. But are you, okay. What did I do? Oh, okay. You know? So agree? Yeah. Okay. I often feel like my life is a series of before and after moments. It's abstract. Yeah, it is. What do you think that means? Oh, I feel like my life is a series of before and after. I mean, maybe. Is it like... Maybe this is who I was before. Yeah, like this is before sobriety. This is before I made it. This is before kids. Okay. I'm going to agree.

1:58:45Okay. I have a very hard time forgiving people who lied to me once. Disagree. I am constantly scanning my environment for potential problems. Yeah, 100%. I'd rather solve a problem myself than explain it to someone else. Oh, yeah. I agree. Not strongly agree. I am the peacemaker in my friend, group, or family. To some degree, yeah. Neutral. I have that middle child thing, right? Like if I'm with my family, I'm trying to adjust everybody's mood. And as tensions are swelling, I'm on it. So in that way, I think I agree. Okay. I can be physically present but mentally miles away in the past. I'd say neutral.

1:59:25I am suspicious of people who are overly nice for no reason. Oh, yeah. Strongly agree. God, I hope I don't have to pay. I feel uneasy. Because I want to know. I feel uneasy in large uncontrolled crowds. Uncontrolled crowds. Yeah. Right? Well, it's interesting. Uneasy versus aroused. I'm also quite aroused. But you're also on alert. I'm on high alert, but I think I can handle my business. So I'm kind of aroused. I mean, I don't think you're at ease. No, no, no. No, I'm not at ease. I'm like fucking, this guy's popping off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So agree. Okay, I'll agree. I value my freedom more than emotional intimacy.

2:00:05Yeah, freedom's huge for me. Yeah. So agree? Mm-hmm. I find myself changing my personality to fit in with different groups. Strongly disagree. I get a heavy feeling in my chest when I think of certain years. Mm, disagree. I feel like I have a shield around my heart most of the time. Aw. I don't— Disagree. Yeah. Yeah. I notice exit signs and escape routes whenever I enter a new building. Mm-hmm. I find it difficult to share my deep secrets with anyone. Disagree. I feel a deep need to be liked by everyone I meet. Strongly agree. I often have dreams that feel like warnings from my past. Oh, yeah.

2:00:42I strongly agree. I struggle to believe people when they give me a compliment. That's evolved. Neutral? Yeah. I'm highly sensitive to the tone of someone's voice. Yeah. Strongly agree. Too sensitive to that. I prefer to live. I'm actually imagining things, I think, a lot of times. Oh, God. Wait, when you hear someone's voice? Like, you and I will be in a fact check. Mm-hmm. And I will detect something in your voice. Yeah. And then I will get, like, defensive. Right. And then I will hear it later. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, my God, I don't even hear it now. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I'll go, like, this is curious.

2:01:17Was I wrong then or am I wrong now? Right. Do you have that? Yeah. Well, I'm very sensitive to changes in, yeah, tone or, but I don't normally. But then when you're editing, are you like, oh, I, it was much more, no, it stays consistent. I feel that I'm consistent. Okay, great. But I wonder if it means like, like, Kristen is like auditorily very sensitive. Like if someone has like a weird voice or something, she's really going to notice it. I don't think I'd notice it. I don't know what that means. Whatever. I already put a grief. Okay, great. I prefer to live a life with as few strings attached as possible.

2:02:03Again. Evolve. That's how it was and that's not how it is now. Yeah. So I would say disagree now. Okay, great. I prioritize other people's comfort over my own needs. I'm going to go neutral. Great. Yeah. I find it hard to feel. I don't think you can be a family member and not do that. You can't function. If you prioritize. If you don't prioritize other people above your own thing. Because it's like it has, it won't function. It's a give and take though. If you're always doing it, that's one thing. If you're, but I think you make your needs known. Yeah. But you also then decide it's not necessary.

2:02:37Like you should have heard the debate. Like how we ended up at mess hall last night was like a fucking hour long thing, right? And at some point I'm like, I'm going to surrender to whatever, anything they agree on I'll go along with. At this point, there's a lot of that when you have kids. Right. But you have like, you have a need to be yourself. Sure. That's a need for you. It's like to not compromise who you are. That's true. So you're not going to not do that so that someone else feels comfortable. No, I'm not going to be someone else to suit somebody. Yeah, no, no. Okay. I find it hard to focus on the present because my mind wanders.

2:03:11No, disagree. This is a lot longer. They said five minutes. Yeah. Bye. And they didn't say it's going to cost anything, but we're going to find out. Oh, my God. We're at the cost part? No, but there's a lot more. Okay. Should we stop? Should we call it? I see the pattern emerging. I feel like I can predict what the outcome is. I don't even know what the options are, though. Super duper kind of, what is it? You're kind of this, you're super duper, whatever is, I don't even know what word they're going to use. Traumatized? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Oh, fine. You know what? I'm going to give up my need for the audience's comfort.

2:03:54Wow. Good job. Thank you. Good job. Thank you. Although I don't know if it's a good job because we didn't find out if that's good or bad. Well, there's no goods or bads. It's just who we are. Who broke two hours in a marathon recently? a Kenyan runner Sebastian Saw and Ethiopian runner Iomif Kehelka Kajelka it's K-E-J-E-L-C-H-A I just don't know how to do it but yeah two of them that's bonkers what is the time? I know marathon is 26.4 miles Yeah, 26 point, I don't know, maybe, yeah, four sounds right. Sebastian was 159.30. Okay, so 159.30 is 119.5 minutes divided by 26 .4, we think. 26.2. 26.2.

2:05:12So it's a four minute and 30 second mile. That's insane. 27 times. That is so insane. That does not feel possible. I couldn't run a five minute mile to save everyone on planet Earth. Well, you probably could for that, but only once. I don't know if I could. You couldn't do it for 26 miles. I don't even know if I can run that fast. I don't know what my sprint is. I know. It's crazy. We could figure out how many miles an hour they're running. Okay. Is this a need? No. Okay. Well, I could do it really easy. Okay. Oh, yeah. How many miles per hour are you running if you're running a four minute and 30 second mile?

2:05:57That's so much better than me trying to remember how to do this. No, it was more fun when you were doing fast math. 13.3 miles an hour. That is full line. I mean, think when you're on a treadmill and you try to run at nine miles an hour or ten. You're like sprinting. Yeah, you are. Yeah. Fuck me. 13 miles. I don't even know if I could ride a bike. For 26 miles? Fuck. Oh, my God. God bless them. Peace. Okay, party schools. Let's talk about the top party schools in America, 2026. There's a few I better be on there. UCSB. No way, it made it. That's a, that is an Easter egg. It's an Easter egg. For an upcoming guest.

2:06:40One of the most likable guests we've ever had. Incredible guest. UCSB, that's number one. Number two, Florida State. FSU and ASU are always right. They're always duking it out. Yeah, but you know what's number three on this list? Although this is from niche.com. What the hell is that? I'm not so sure, but this says Tulane is three. Well, that makes sense, New Orleans. I guess. That can make sense. I was just there. It felt very academic. Yeah, it can be both. Okay. As you'll see. Yeah, UCSB. That's a damn good school. Well, number four is USC. Wow. I don't believe this list, but go ahead. Oh, my God.

2:07:22I mean, do you think USC is a bigger party school than ASU? I mean, I find it. ASU, they have a lazy river around one of the dorms we found out, right? Well, I think I said that, but then they— Well, we were saying it was at the school, which turned out to be not correct. But I do think it was at one of the living—the housing. I mean, I agree. I'm skeptical of USC. Yes. But also—well, mainly because I'm like, where are they going? Yes, you're in the middle of the fucking raunchiest part of L.A. Right. Okay. Now, this—five's University of Wisconsin-Madison. Six, Roll Tide. Yeah. I mean, they got to be above USC.

2:07:57Yeah. Alabama. Exactly. You go there to black out. I'm surprised. Okay, there we go. Seven is Syracuse. Never even heard that. Syracuse. This is a big school. No, I've heard of the school. I've never heard it's a party school. Well, we've never been. Eight. Go Dawgs. UGA? ASU has not been on this list yet, right? Just confirming. I'm literally not seeing it at all. Of this list. And I'm like really, now I'm scrolling. Yeah. Okay, this list forgot one. But Georgia. Good job. I'm happy it's on there and it deserves it. And it is so fun. I just had a really interesting meeting with someone at Georgia about you getting involved.

2:08:43They're doing some really—I'm really proud of it. They're doing some really cool stuff there to help get people— Pumped about UGA? Well, to school. Uh-huh. It's great. All right, we're going to discard this list because ASU isn't on it. And if I went to ASU right now, I would be taking action against this list. Okay. This is, wow, though. I'm looking at some other. UCSB is on all these, though. They are. So that seems. That's comforting. Yeah. Okay, good. Okay, wait. What about College Vine? Let me just do a quick. Do you trust that one? I never heard of that either. Oh, this one. Yeah, no. This one has Alabama first.

2:09:27I believe that, though. But it has UCSB second. Okay. Okay, it has Georgia. As long as it is Georgia. ASU? None of these have it. Have they clamped down at ASU? What has happened? I mean, something, because these are all like. I am curious. Oh, Business Insider. Let's look at that. I am curious as mail attendance has fallen dramatically at all these colleges. Oh, if it's affected? How much it affects the party. Boys are much more rite of passage, go too far, you know. Yeah, but in Georgia. The girls be getting fucked up too. Yeah, it doesn't feel like that. Okay. It's like as many fraternities as are sororities, everyone's downtown the whole week and weekend.

2:10:14Okay. And football games are everywhere, you know, so yeah. Drinking. It's egalitarian. Yeah. All right. Well, Business Insider made me pay, so I didn't do it. No, I'm not going to do that. Okay. What are the eight dimensions of wellness? Oh, this is good. It has an acronym. Sam Husson. Sam Harris? Sam Husson Minaj? Yeah. This is not a good acronym. You can't say it. You got to be able to do better with those letters. Okay. If I'm going to rearrange it, I'll do... Shashimi. No. mosh no mosh no mash mash ass oh I like that well read me the yeah read okay physical emotional social intellectual spiritual you're already yawning no sorry spiritual environmental occupational or vocational and financial ow just get stung by a bee over there no I have a burn Oh.

2:11:22And like something weird is happening to my burn. I think because it's getting heated up by the sun. I haven't been wearing sunscreen on it. Okay, it's burning again. Yeah. Okay, so physical, emotional, social, intellectual, spiritual, environmental, occupational, and financial. Those make sense to me. Yeah, me too. All right. I believe them. Me too. Unlike that list. That would exclude ASU. Well, like you said, maybe it's changed. If we didn't read that they had shut ASU down, it's too much party and we got to end this. Okay, percentage of people with psychosis Who have psychosis? Approximately 3 % of people will experience a psychotic episode at some point in their lifetime Whoa While a diagnosable psychotic order like schizophrenia is less common Affecting roughly 0.25 to 0.64 % of the population Good, that's better Mm-hmm Psychotic symptoms can affect anyone And frequently appear during late adolescence or early adulthood Remember the Armchair Anonymous?

2:12:19Which one? Remember Bad Roommate? That girl was like, had a psychosis. Yes, I do remember. Yeah. She thought that the boyfriend was abusing her. Yeah. Oof. All right. Well, that's it. Okay. Great job. Great job. And I'm going to let it go. Though we don't. Though we didn't finish. Yeah. Okay. We didn't finish our quiz. I'm going to let it go. It seems like it's rolling right off your back. Yeah, really, I'm doing a great job letting it go. All right. Love you.