Geena Davis

24:54Get out of the window. And then she looked and saw this giant crowd outside and said, well, stay there. Oh, wow. They started hiring me every Saturday. No. For like five hours. She had five-hour shifts of sitting still. A little break every hour. I'd take like a five-minute break. You had a five or ten minute. Wow. It's like an art installation. But I think even sitting dead still for 15 minutes would be far more grueling than people would expect. Is it not hard? I learned. You were built for it. I had no idea that I had this talent, but I learned that I had a tremendous skill at being motionless and that I could go a very long time without blinking.

25:33because they're also waiting for me to blink. Oh, they're on it. Yeah. You know, I could go like at least five minutes or more without blinking. Then I blink and they go, ah. Did you ever consider rubbing a thin layer of Vaseline over your eyes? Would that help? So that they wouldn't need moisturizing. Like maybe you could convince your eyes that they could stay open permanently. Well, that's why you're blinking to moisturize your eyes. I know, but no one wants to put Vaseline on. Of course not. But if you're committed to your craft. You can't be sure that would work. No, you'd have to try it.

26:01Then your eyes are covered. You'd probably fall down getting in because it'd be blurry. I should have tried. But you know what? People would be looking, looking at me. And one time somebody said, ah, it's not a mannequin. It has hair on its arms. And so I was like, okay. And I went home. She could hear them perfectly through the glass. Isn't that fascinating, Monica? I would love to hear people talking about me. Oh, yeah. I don't think I can hear. It was so funny. So from then on, I shaved my arms and I got a wig that looked like the other mannequin's wig. Wow. This is the reverse of the movie Mannequin, where a mannequin becomes a real life beautiful girl.

26:32You're a real-life beautiful girl who became a mannequin. Who became a mannequin. And then one time somebody said, that's not a robot or anything. She's not plugged in. So the next time, I had a very subtle little cord disappearing. Wow. She's plugged in. This feels impossible, but your first audition as Tootsie? Yeah. Oh, my. I mean, that really is nuts. How did you get it? And because the role required his dressing room mate to be in her underwear a couple of times, so he'd be like, well, they called model agencies and said, do you have any models who know how to act? And my agents knew that I didn't say, we do have one.

27:15She's currently acting like a mannequin on Fifth Street. And so they said, OK, so go. These are the lines and you're going to go to an audition. And if they like your audition, they want to see you in a bathing suit. So just wear a bathing suit under your clothes. So I did, and I went to the audition, and I read. And it was just an assistant to the casting directors. The first rung on the ladder. She did the video and then didn't ask to see my bathing suit. So it just went completely out of my mind. Of course, my first time. Nothing's going to happen. You flew to do a runway show, right? Yes, I went to Paris.

27:47I went to Paris, and I got booked for some of the runway shows, and I was excited about that. And then got a message, call your agent. And they said, you got the part. And I'm like, what part? Tootsie. huh? What? They said, but you could stay and do the shows. And I was like, I'm coming home. I gotta come home. Which I didn't need to, but I really wish. I regret I didn't do that. But Sidney Ballack had seen your tape, right? He saw my tape and he said, I really like her. Where's her underwear photo? And they said, oh, we forgot. We didn't do it. Well, get her back. Oh, turns out we can't. She's in Paris.

28:21Well, do they have any photos of her in a bathing suit? Oh, my God. Mickey's secrets. Lucky. And it turns out there's tons of them. I definitely did. Yes. With everybody else in this office. Yeah. What was your intimidation level? Because your scenes were immediately with Dustin. Yeah. And Dustin's already being heralded as like the second coming of Brando, right? I mean, he is a god at that time. Right. So, yeah. What was your kind of anxiety level? As someone who trends high with anxiety. I get there on the first day. The first scene I shoot is in my underwear with Dustin. But I was just like, this is what was supposed to happen.

29:01Yeah, you felt confident. As if it really happens that way for people. But I felt kind of fine. Do you think the modeling helped? Like you kind of already crossed a really big bridge to do that. That's way more awkward than acting. Right. When I got to do a photo shoot for something, I'm like, oh gosh, I can't stand this. It's crazy how you act. No, that's true. And so we started shooting the scene and Dustin and Sidney were so gracious and kind with me. And then on one of the takes, Dustin accidentally ran into the door and I went over and said, are you okay? Are you all right? So I literally ad-libbing.

29:35Cindy Pollack said, hey, come here for a second. Why are you not nervous? And I said, am I supposed to be? I don't know. Oh, God. He was like, yeah, no, it's good. It's great. But it's almost creepy. But it's a little bit creepy. He said, I mean, you're acting a scene with Dustin when you're in your underwear and you seem just fine with it. Yeah. Is it fair to say, now look, I've worked with really, really acclaimed actors that didn't have this ability. And then I've worked with really acclaimed actors where they have this ability, which is like, they're so good. They can just suck you into their bubble.

30:07Like, do you think Dustin's ability helped you for that first role? Yeah. Dustin was incredible with me and immediately decided that I was going to have a career and just took me under his wing all day long, tips and advice. And the second day, he said, come with me at lunch. I'm going to take you to Daly's. I didn't know what that was. And for the listener, Daly's are when they used to shoot on film, they go process all the film, then you'd come back and watch it all in the theater unedited. Right. And it's typically just for department heads and whatever to see. Was the mic and the camera or something?

30:43Yeah, is the hair reading weird in the sliding? And Sidney was a little surprised when Dosser brought me in. He said, what's going on? He said, I'm going to teach her how to watch dailies. Yeah, because let's just add, actors are not invited to dailies. No, no. If you're Dustin Hoffman, you can go. Yes. So he was like, okay. So every time I did scenes, I got to go to dailies. And he would talk through it and stuff. And he wanted me to learn how to use dailies as a tool. And so the idea was, let's say you think something you did had some intention and you hope it came across. Well, go see the dailies to see if it did.

31:17Yeah. And if it didn't, you probably have some other scene where you could work on that aspect of the character. So that was incredible. That's great. Also, you're like accumulating. I don't want to belittle it and say that you accumulate tricks, but you do accumulate the things you're good at. And no one's great at everything. And some things are totally unexpected. Some you've been doing since you're eight. And of course it works. But also some of the things you were doing since you're eight on film don't work. There's a lot to learn. There is. I was lucky. The first movie I ever did, they invited us to dailies.

31:47Really? It was a mixed bag. Oh, were you self-conscious? Well, first of all, I couldn't believe I was on a screen. Yeah. I was just like, oh, my God. Because they're showing the dailies on a movie screen in New Zealand. Yes, yes. And I'm like, this is happening. So maybe the first half of the time I went, I just couldn't believe I was in a movie. And then the last half, I was like, we got to stop doing that, that, and that, you know? Oh, right, right, right, right. Yeah, like once the thrill of being in a movie wears off. Right. And you're like, oh, I could be doing a little better at this. Yeah.

32:16Or I could be not doing that. Yeah. Maybe I don't need to do so much, period. Right. I think that's what you really learn a lot of times. Like, you don't need to be that busy. Yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. If you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking your gas gauge before hitting the road. You genuinely thought you could make it? You were wrong. That's a very long stretch of highway where you learned exactly how far fumes can take you. And it's not far enough. Yeah, checking first is an excellent plan. So check Allstate first for an auto quote.

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36:31So that movie comes out. It's enormous. I think it gets nominated for 10 Academy Awards, something outrageous like that. Big hit, yeah. And how are you computing having gone from being a living model? A mannequin. A living mannequin to that moment. So I'm home visiting my folks at one point. and my best friend's mom comes over. She's talking to my mom. She says, no one can believe somebody from Wareham is in a movie. Nobody can believe this. My mom says, well, she studied acting in college. Yeah, with 13 other thousand kids that year. But I remember just now, my brother and I took them to see the movie.

37:15It was a matinee. Hardly anyone was there. The movie finishes. We get in the car, dead silence. Mom says, So, what do I have for dinner tonight? Oh, boy. I think it was because I had underwear. I know. I was going to ask how they were handling the underwear exposure. Well, double whammy, there's the underwear. But then there's also just the, like, we're a very pious, low poppy family, and you're a model, and now you're an actor. That's just almost been quite threatening with how worldly you were getting. Maybe. Although, my mom really latched on to me being an actor. And she one time said, you're a mole.

37:52I would pay if you want to have it removed, if that would make any difference. And she also said, I read that blonde actresses get more work. I would be happy to pay for you to get your hair dyed. Oh, she's trying to help. All terrible advice, but really sweet. That freckles like that's Gina Davis. Yeah. The intention was kind. It was. Yeah, it was. Okay, so at that time, I just immediately built a huge fantasy around this. Tell me if I'm right or wrong. Your husband at the time was a restaurateur. Yes. So when I think of New York, I'm thinking of Billy Joel's Big Shot, like going out to Elaine's.

38:29The whole New York City, 1980 now, it wasn't so thrilling and glamorous. It wasn't glamorous. It wasn't. No, no. What, did he own pizza shops? He worked at various restaurants. But none of them were sceny ones? Nothing. You weren't seeing Billy Joel jacked up in a corner? No, nothing like that. I'm sorry. I'm sorry I didn't do that. Were you going to Studio 54? No, although my agency had a Christmas party at Studio 54, and they wanted to have models jump out of a giant present box. Sure. That would, you know, the walls would fall down and sing Jingle Bell Rock. Oh, wow, yeah, classic. Classic of steam builder.

39:10Yeah. So because I could sing-ish and do harmony, I was one of them, and the other two were, like, pretty famous. But I got to do that. So we dressed in these skimpy little dresses, which had jingle bells tying together the sides. Picturing like almost the Hugh Hefner bunny outfit in that world. Exactly. Okay, with some bells. Yeah, with some little bells added. What was your identity doing that you thought you were a wallflower in high school, but now you're quite beautiful and you're in movies and lots of men probably are giving you a lot of attention. How are you integrating that into your identity?

39:46I think I still thought it was kind of a trick. Oh, I also thought because somebody happened to video me while we were in college and showed me the video. And I was like, I'm kind of photogenic. In that instance, I am attractive. If it's a photo or on screen. You made space for there's a version where I'm beautiful, but it's only through a lens. Only in this circumstance. I'll tell you my story. Okay. I have been embarrassingly vulnerable to female attention and approval my whole life because I had this big window. I was like, no girls are ever going to like me and I want a girl so bad. So did you have any of that where you just felt like that affection or approval held a weight that maybe otherwise it wouldn't have?

40:37I think so. Yeah. I was also very impressed if somebody took interest in me. You were like surprised. I could like someone just because they liked me. Oh, me too. That's what I'm saying. Absolutely. Yeah. If they said I really like it, I'd say, I like you too. Yes. Oh, yeah. That's a tricky lane to pick. It's very tricky. Then you're just like at the mercy of luck. Well, I hope the right dude arrives in front of me and says I like you because I will like that person back. All you have to do is show interest in me. Yes. You know. Yeah. It's not knowing yourself. It's not knowing what you really like.

41:16Or what you want. Or what you want or need. Yeah. Yeah. Also, it just goes to show like what you think you're meaning when you're an adult. You just don't know people's childhoods. No, exactly. So anyone that's meaning you and you're in movies and you're six feet tall and you're gorgeous, they're like, yeah, this girl's had every option her whole life. I'd be so lucky if she says hi to me back. Yeah. And then you're sitting there like, oh, my gosh, I just want someone to say they like me. I think this guy actually likes me. Something's wrong with him. Exactly. Okay. So then for the next few years after Tootsie, you started doing a bunch of television.

41:50You were in some of the greats. You were in Knight Rider, freaking Remington Steel, Family Ties. Now you were on Buffalo Bill for a year. I don't even know that show, but I was really excited to learn that you wrote an episode of it. I did. So Dabney Coleman was in Tootsie and I met him there. And then he was getting ready to do this sitcom, Buffalo Bill, and recommended me to play his assistant. And I flew out to L.A. and immediately got the part. And then I had an idea for an episode that heavily featured my character. Assistant heavy. And I told one of the producer, producer writer about it.

42:31And he said, well, OK, write that. And I was like, no, I don't know how to write it. Well, write it. That was cool of them. Yes. So I started writing it and I thought maybe this is good. And I wanted to show him. He said, I'm not reading it until it's done. So that forced me to finish it. And then with everybody tinkering with it. But yeah, we did it. Was that so enormously rewarding to see an episode of television on air that you wrote? Yes. Yeah, I'm shocked you didn't get more addicted to that. I know. Because forever I've wished that I could write a screenplay or something. But I don't know.

43:04Have you written? Oh, yeah. And I pride myself on it way more. Of course. Like when we're traveling, if we're meeting people who have no clue who either of us are, and they say, what do you do? I'll always say writer. That's what I have the most pride in. I totally understand. Okay. I just have to ask you this one because this is my all time. It's a three-way tie, but it is number one. My all time comedies are Raising Arizona, Learning with Disaster, and Fletch. Oh boy. Yeah. I love your body, Larry. You're one of the guys who would come up to me and say, Oh, I wouldn't have done that to you. But yes, I would have been very thrilled you were around.

43:39That's for sure. What was that movie like? I just watched the Chevy Doc. Oh. Did you watch that by chance? I haven't. I didn't even know there was. I'd be so curious to hear from someone who did a movie with him. It's interesting. Most of the people that I've had the conversation with, they didn't walk away with what I did. I can just tell you what I walked away with, which is like, he is a genius. He's deeply uncomfortable. And he has this crazy wit. And he acts out with it a lot. and he's mean to people a lot. But I also don't know that he knows he's mean to people in the way that he clearly is mean to people.

44:12But at the end of the day, he is unhappy. He's uncomfortable and unhappy. So I have compassion for him. It's not like he was an asshole and he's having a blast. I think he's suffering the most. No, yeah. Was there any hints of that when you were doing Fletch? Well, you know, I had such a small part. I originally auditioned for the lead female character. Mrs. Stanhope, Alan Stanhope's wife. I watched it a lot. Yeah, so many times. I could do every line. I'm pretty sure they said you're not attractive enough to play that part. Oh. But we think you're so funny. We want you in the movie. And this was 85 where they would tell you you're not attractive.

44:50Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. That's so crazy. I was wearing my hair all curly and weird. Anyway, they said, oh, there's this part of the morgue chief whose name is Larry, but we'll change it to a female for you. And I said, but I still want to be Larry. Yeah. It made it very memorable that you were a Larry. But was he grouchy? Not at all. He was also at the peak. Everything was going his way at that moment. Yeah. And he might have really enjoyed that movie or something because he seemed fun and funny and chill and great. Okay. So you did the movie Transylvania 65 ,000 and you met Jeff. Yes. Had you seen him in things prior to that?

45:26Yes. Okay. Because I think the fly is my introduction to Jeff Goldblum. He's immediately a unicorn, right? He's so peculiar in the most fascinating way. Fabulous way. And was he that way on Transylvania? Yes. Yeah, I was immediately smitten. You sounded like him just then. Yes. Yes. Yes.

45:51Sorry, Jeff. But yeah, yeah, we hit it off. It was pretty immediate? Very. Off to the races. Okay, yeah, then you do the fly. And The Fly is a mega movie. What a movie. Really was, yeah. David Cronenberg, who wrote it also. You probably never saw the original Fly, but it's goofy. It didn't mean to be. That was in that spell of weird monster movies, right? Weird monster movies. The swamp thing. I wouldn't be surprised if Vincent Price was in it. And when the character turned into a fly, he had a human body and a giant fly head. And then they showed the fly toward the end had his human head on it, but tiny.

46:31And they were saying, help me. But then it gets eaten by a spider. This has to be a very joyful phase of your life. You meet someone, you fall in love, he's a unicorn. And then you guys do three movies together. Yeah. Back to back to back. Was there any stress or challenge to that or no? No, it was all fun. And in one, he's a fly. In another one, he's an alien. Earth girls are easy. Earth girls are easy. Yeah. It was kind of crazy. So the fly is huge. I guess I would have expected after Tootsie, you would have had more movie type offers. But it takes the fly. That kind of gets the ball rolling.

47:11And then the kind of big breakthrough for, well, that Beetlejuice is huge. What's it like working with Tim Burton? Oh, so great. I went to meet him to talk about being in the movie. And he's an illustrator, too, you know. He used to do animation. And all the walls were covered with his drawings of what Beetles was going to look like. And it was fabulous. And I found out later that this happened that I said to him, I want to be in this movie because I get it. I get this movie. And he told me later that he wanted to hire me because he wanted at least somebody on the set who knew what the movie was about.

47:46Who got it. He's like, because I sure don't. So that was great. Okay, accidental tourist then kind of now everything changes. Because you get nominated and then you win an Academy Award for that. You're pretty young still, yeah? I'm just like 32 or something. 32? Feels very young to win an Oscar nowadays. Yeah. And what did you have to learn on that movie with William Hurt's just kind of darkness? Actually, so for that movie, I hired an acting coach. I had studied acting, but I'd never worked with a coach. But I thought, oh, this is so important. I don't want to mess it up. And he actually had heard what Bill is like to work with.

48:29So he was like, we're going to proof you from being drawn off track by the way he is. Because he did live in a dark place. I think all of it was kind of painful for him in some way. And so I was such a caretakey, people pleaser type. If he had been like that and I had no idea he was going to be like that, all I would be trying to do is make him happy, fix him up. You know, what can I do? So if he's unhappy, given your childhood, you would have likely interpreted that as like, well, I've been bad. What is it about me that he doesn't like? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I learned what to do if that happened.

49:08The coach said, if you say, oh, how are you? And he says, I'm terrible. You're going to say, I'm sorry to hear that. okay just not get sucked into that and it was really unnatural yeah but i practiced it and i was able to do that yeah it's like very codependence teaching yeah breaking right yeah yeah and submersion therapy all at once immersion submersion well yeah this is the kind of the theme of your memoir is basically like a lot of these roles have forced you to take on qualities that otherwise would have maybe been unobtainable. Right. And that certainly feels like a really good one. Not that you perfected it, but if I could have learned at 32, I'm currently learning it.

49:55I live with three women and it has occurred to me, I can't be affected by their emotions or this isn't going to work. Like this will be untenable. If I'm upset every time they're upset and trying to figure out what I got to do to fix it, I'm going to die. But it's like taking that life experience and forcing me to learn that. So I would have loved to have learned that at 32. Yes. But. It didn't apply to anybody else. You didn't wrap it on to anybody else. I learned how to do it with Bill Hurd. So you're good. If you're with him, you're fine. But anyone else, you're still vulnerable. Okay. Immediately after.

50:30Now we're on a fucking roll. Now we go into Telma and Louise there pretty quick after that. And Ridley Scott, obviously one of the great kind of masters to ever do it. Just a genius. Heartbreaking and what did he bring to that? You know what? I just watched it with a friend two nights ago. I mean, I've seen it a million times, but I watched it again and I was just so bowled over by everything he brought to it. There's so many details that I kept saying, that was Ridley's idea. That was Ridley. He did that, you know, like a motorcycle suddenly screamed by or some vehicle shooting water out at the car and we dodged it and all kinds of just visual stuff.

51:11A crop duster plane flies over the convertible and just keep brought such profound visual element to it. Besides being a genius director with all the acting and everything. Yeah, as an actor, you can miss all that stuff. You're like, focus on your scene. We have this three page scene in this car. You don't even notice a fucking crop duster in the back. Or if you saw it, you would think it was coincidental. Right. Yeah. You're kind of unaware of how much of the sausage is being made around you. He made that movie so much bigger than it could have been. And then Susan arrives in your life as kind of a real signpost of like some things you'd like to take on.

51:47Oh, man. She changed my life more than anybody. And we're still ride or die. So the first day I met her was a good example. We were getting together with Ridley, just the three of us. We're going to go through the script and see if anybody had any comments or thoughts. And there was a few little things I wanted to bring up, but I had tried to figure out the girliest possible way to bring them up. But this I can just mention on the set. Your pattern at that time was every sentence you said was mitigated with, this is probably a dumb idea, or I'm sorry to even bring this up, right? You were constantly apologizing for having an opinion.

52:20Yes, apologizing for existing, let alone having thoughts about something. But so we sit down, crack open the script, and on page one, Susan says, Ridley, you know what? My first line here, I don't think we need it. Or we could put it in the next scene. And he was like, yeah, sure. And I was literally like, what is she doing? What's this? How did she just do that? How come she didn't find out first how he'd react or something? And the whole day was like that, the whole experience. And then the entire movie was like that. I had never been in the presence of a woman who doesn't apologize for existing ever.

53:01And advocates for herself without any fear of... Everybody loved her. It wasn't like, we like Gina better because she's so wimpy. Everybody adored her. It wasn't like she was fighting, but she just knows what she wants and says what she wants. Were you trying to figure out how she had become that way? That would have been my great fascination. It's like, how did she end up this way? You just took it at face value. I never thought about how did she manage to be that way. She was the oldest of many siblings. She's a boss. Yeah, yeah. She might have also just decided or understood that her value was more than just how she looked or being this very female presence.

53:46She offered something else. She offered thoughts and her brain and something. Exactly. Maybe she was rewarded. Which seems like it should be absolutely natural. Yeah, but it's not. But it sure wasn't for me. Not for a lot of women. It's hard. Now, what's interesting is everyone now will recognize that movie as like this very seminal feminist movie. But I don't think I even realized this till I was researching you that that was not the takeaway of the time when it came out. Right. Like that was one of the weird things that were happening around that movie because it was wildly successful. Right.

54:21A lot of the reviewers had a problem with it. Like a week after it came out, Susan and I were on the cover of Time, but there were two editorials denouncing the movie about how bad this is. This is a horrible idea. And a lot of reviews were like, this is male bashing. Hmm. You mean rapist bashing? There's hopefully a difference between men and rapists. Rapist. And there's seven important male characters. And oh my God, what a horrible message. Now the women have guns. Oh my God. So it was really frowned on, but it didn't impact its success. People really liked it and it did well. But culture was not there yet.

55:02Right. So you got nominated for that movie. And Susan, too. And Susan as well. So fun. We did talk about Susan a lot, so I don't want to be accused of now. I've got to talk about the one man in the movie. Oh, no, no, no. But I'm so in love with him. I'm just so head over heels in love with him. I know. Harvey Keitel is just gorgeous. I know. Harvey Keitel. Oh, you mean. Oh, you mean. No, it was like the piano. He's nude in the piano, which I appreciate it. Harvey Keitel. Yeah, but obviously Brad Pitt, this is his breakout role. Did you think when you were watching like, yeah, this motherfucker is going to really be a thing?

55:35He's a star. Or no? I didn't think this motherfucker. This wonderful human being is just going to be all that. I was positive that the reaction he got was the reaction he was going to get. And you have a nice, fun glimpse of him because you have a glimpse of him probably more Oz Shucksie, Missouri boy than this international movie star. Absolutely. Yeah. So what was he like back then? Oh, God. Yeah. He was so fun, so sweet, so excited, so happy to be doing it and playful also, which I think you could tell in the way he plays the character. But he was just having fun with everything and loose. And for his first really big role, he just killed it.

56:20Was everyone in love with him? Yeah. Yeah, sure. Well, duh. We still are. We all were. But I have to tell you a funny story. Did you hear about my George Clooney story? No. So I was getting on a plane in Europe one time, and all the flight attendants were waiting at the door for me to show up. And they said, guess who you're sitting next to? George Clooney. Oh, my God. And for once in my life, I said the right thing at the right time. And I said, guess who he's sitting next to? That's right. Right? That is right. And I was like, I can't believe I came up with that. Oh, good for you. So I sat down.

56:57He's charming. He's gregarious. He's telling stories and we're talking. And then at one point he says, you know, I hate that Brad Pitt. I said, isn't he like your best friend or something? He said, no, I hate him because he got the part in some of the movies. I said, oh, oh, really? Did you want that part? And he said, couldn't you tell when I auditioned with you? Oh, wow. He had read with you? Yes. That's hilarious. Were you embarrassed? I'm so wimpy. I didn't say, no, I didn't remember you at all. You know, I said, oh, right. No, I did. Oh, no. He would have laughed if I said. Hey, of course he would have.

57:33I might have done the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to make someone feel like they were unmemorable. Well, he made her feel like you don't remember. Then you can be like, I don't. That's a take. That's a Susan take. That's what Susan would have done. Yeah, I think it's like, because I've been in this position a bunch of times. And it's like, the last thing you want is to tell someone like, oh, yeah, you're unmemorable. Not like, hey, I've met 11 ,000 people this year. But he is putting her in the position. It's one thing if he's just like, oh, yeah, I auditioned with you. Then you might be like, oh, I know.

58:08I remember. Like, then you want to make them feel good. But if it's like, you don't remember, it's a trap. So then 92, League of Your Own comes along. This is a huge triumph as well. Open number one, 10th biggest movie of the year. You, Tom Hanks, Madonna. Had Madonna done much before then? Acting? Yeah. I don't think so. Evita was after that? Yeah, for sure Evita was. Yeah, and we didn't know what to expect. She was going to have an entourage. What is it going to be? She was so normal, low-key, team player. Yeah. For people listening today, you have to imagine Taylor Swift's in your book. Oh, yeah.

58:48I mean, and then some, right? Madonna was. Beyonce, maybe. Oh, my God. Beyond. She was already an icon, but she was still very young. Were you guys bros? Did you get on well? All of us got along great. I was mostly close with Lori Petty. This is, again, in your book. This is another one of the things like you had done no athletics. And then you have to be the best baseball player alive. Anyone has ever seen a guy. A female. Oh, my God. But you took to it really quickly. You surprised yourself? Yes, I surprised everybody, I think. But everybody else had been training in baseball for a while. But I had to catch up.

59:21And the coaches soon started saying, you know, you have a lot of untapped athletic ability. And I'm like, when did I ever think I was going to hear that? That's crazy. And I did. And I pulled it off, I think. Definitely. But I could really play. Up to this point, you've had a really wonderful incremental, everything gets a little better than the last thing. Had you settled into like, oh, that'll be the pattern? Or were you looking around and going like, no, everyone takes it on the chin. I will also take it on the chin. What were you thinking? Do you think it was just going to be a completely linear rise and all the movies would work?

59:59You're asking me questions that not only nobody asked me, but I haven't even thought about. What did I think? Because we got to go back to 1992 for this question. It was a minute ago. I think I felt like things are going to work out pretty good. I didn't have a feeling like, well, I've been the lead or one of the leads in two movies in a row, you know, a year apart. And nominated for all the movies. Yeah, won an Oscar. Winning a Golden Globe. All the proof is there. Yeah, I don't know what I thought. I honestly don't remember what I thought or if I was surprised that didn't happen or anything.

1:00:31I didn't have nearly the run you had, but I did have a run where I had a few hits in a row. And they were all things that shouldn't have been hits. and I went oh well duh now when I go to this movie that's got a big budget with a great director who fucking knows what's gonna happen and then like that movie didn't work I was like oh Jesus now what I thought for sure okay we made it out of the 10-year fucking doldrums where finally it's happening and then I climb up to this rung of the ladder and then very rude awakening like no if you have a couple in a row that don't work it's rough that's right so anyways you had a couple in the row that didn't work as anticipated.

1:01:06One of them is my favorite movie that you ever did, which is Long Kiss Goodnight. If you haven't seen Long Kiss Goodnight. I haven't seen it. In fact, I got to show my - You haven't seen it? No, I want to see it. I'll watch it tonight. Monica. Let me hear you with the premise. She is a housewife kind of mom type. Lady. Uh-huh. Trad wife. She gets amnesia. Oh. She has amnesia. I had. Had amnesia. She doesn't realize she had amnesia. It's before born. It's kind of born. Ooh. And then slowly starts realizing after an accident that she's got skills she can't explain. Ooh. And she's actually an assassin.

1:01:41Oh, cool. Very born. Yeah. It's born. The script's great. You're fucking brilliant. The premise is perfect. And then Sam Jackson. Come on. What's that line he has? He's like, you ask him if he's Mormon. He's like, yeah, that's why I just had two Jack and Cokes and a pack of Newports or some shit like that. He has some great line. So great. He was just coming off of Pulp Fiction. Yeah. He was very hot. Were you so pumped to work with him? Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. And then he's the greatest guy ever. He's the coolest dude. The coolest dude ever. All we did was laugh and have fun. We had so much fun.

1:02:14But it didn't work? That one did fine. We thought it was going to explode. The movie before Cutthroat Island was in the Guinness Book of World Records as the biggest financial. That's been way blown away by now. Even when I see the price of that movie, it's kind of cute. It was like$110 million. That was the biggest disaster ever. Oh, God. Now people are writing off like$400 million movies and stuff. I know, I know. How did you process that heartbreak of that? You're also married to the director. I'm guessing when I've had movies that failed that I wrote and directed, I've got three months. or I'm just depressed.

1:02:49You know, I did that for two and a half years and now that happened. Oh, I see. And I'm naturally going to be depressed. Right. And now if my wife was also shouldering that same thing, I don't know who's available to nurture. Yeah, we kind of had to nurture each other through that. And we knew we had Long Kiss coming up, so that helped. But I was going to tell you about the pirate movie. Oh, yeah, yeah, tell me. Cutthroat. Cutthroat Island. Yeah. So Cutthroat Island, it was going to star Michael Keaton. He asked Rennie. I was already with Rennie and maybe married already. He wanted some substantial actress to play the female part, which was much smaller than his and all that.

1:03:28So he was begging Rennie to get me to do it. And I was like, I think I really do want to do it. And Rennie was begging, please, please. Is that part stressful? Oh, it's very stressful. Yeah, that is. Like you want to do your husband or wife of whatever favor they want, but also I don't want to gamble my career. Yeah. So anyway, I finally got my arm twisted enough that I said that I would do it. And then Michael eventually dropped out. He just suddenly, I'm not doing it. And Rennie and I, I mean, he wasn't that crazy about the script either. And so we were like, we're getting out of it. We don't have to do it.

1:04:08Oh my God. Yeah, we're like dancing around. and then Mario Casari was Coralco was the producers and I had the same agency as Michael and I thought well easily I'll get out of this and they were told no there's no way Gina's getting out of this she is doing it we'll sue her. What does Michael Douglas get to get out of it and I don't get to get out of it. I'm only a small potato compared to him. Was it Michael Douglas or Michael Keaton? Michael Douglas. Oh Michael Douglas. Right. I said Keaton by accident. Yeah Michael Douglas. So we were like, oh, God, no, we've got to do it. And we got Matthew Modine, who was fabulous in it and a great guy and a lot of fun.

1:04:47But it was really against our will. Right. So it was one of those ones that didn't feel right from the jump and then turned out. So maybe we learned like a gut intuition lesson off of that one. Well, yeah. I mean, don't get talked in anything ever again. But we went into it with a good will, you know, and I trained to trade to do piratical stuff. Yeah. You learned a swashbuckle. I buckled my spine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had to learn horseback riding and all that stuff. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. This episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. Look, I have my dream job. I get to talk to folks I admire like crazy and ask them virtually any question that I want to.

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1:09:48Okay, I just, one fun thing that people certainly want to know is that in 99, you tried out for the U.S. Olympic archery team. What? What did I do in 99? Which you had started in 97. So you'd only been doing it for two years. Two and a half. And what you had seen it in something, why did you even get interested? I had to learn to play baseball. And then I had to learn smart, you know, horseback riding and gun shooting and then ice skating and gun shooting while ice skating for Lunkest Good night, all these skills. And I was kind of good at all of them. And I had not had any clue that I was coordinated.

1:10:28And so it was so much fun. And then I thought, I think I'd like to take up a sport in real life and not the movie version of it. Because no matter what, if I didn't catch the ball, I didn't do another take. Yeah. Put in the stunt double. So then I was just watching the Olympics on TV in Atlanta. And there was a lot of coverage of archery because the American men's team was winning all the medals. And I thought, you know, that's really beautiful. And it's very dramatic. And I didn't learn how to shoot pistols really well. And it's kind of a weapon. So I thought, I'm going to try archery and found a coach and became utterly obsessed with it.

1:11:09Like how frequently are you doing it? Practicing every day, like four or five hours. Four or five hours in your, what, backyard shooting on a hay bale? No, no. Don't be stupid, Dad. No,

1:11:23I was just saying, a hay bale cannot stop an arrow. You really have to be somewhere safe to do that. So I'd go to a range and meet with my coach constantly. And then he told me I had to start competing. And I was like, oh, no, I'm not anywhere near. He said, no, no, no, it's about getting better. You go to get better. So I'd be competing and competing. And then I won the California Cup one year. And you said what you liked about it is it was objective versus how subjective your career was. Exactly. Are you hitting the target or not? Do you think it was a salve for dealing with the kind of disappointment and uneasiness about what was next?

1:12:00Could be. Yeah, because again, it's a control thing. Back to the compulsive behavior. It's like repetitive. It's singular. Very repetitive. You've narrowed your world, which is scary right now and unpredictable, to a red dot. I mean, this all feels very regulating. Yes, very regulating and very specific. And I had the time. I didn't work that soon after a long kiss of good night, so I had two and a half years to focus only on that. So you entered in 99 to go to the Olympic trials. I qualified as a semifinalist for the Olympic trials. 300 people entered and you finished 24th? Oh, my God. It was 300 people at the national tournament, and then they took the top 32 could be in the semifinals.

1:12:45You were in those. Yeah. And then you somehow got a wild card and went to Athens? Sydney. In Sydney. So Sydney built all of their venues way before they hosted the Olympics. And a year before it, they tried out every single sport, and they had the top people come just to run it and make sure everything was good. Dress rehearsal. Yeah. And so the real team went, they said, you could come too. So I got to wear the uniform and walk out and do music and everything. It was so fun. Oh my gosh. That's fantastic. I didn't win that one though. That's okay. That's okay. You got to go. How old were you when you had your daughter?

1:13:2546. Okay. So I wonder if you have, I have such great gratitude for waiting to 38, right? There were so many times when both little kids are screaming where I'm like, oh, man, I don't know if I would have had the patience for this in my 20s. Also, my career was sorted enough. I guess all the mountains I was trying to climb, tired of that. And so this I could really. Do you have that kind of gratitude for waiting later or did you have moments where you're like, God, I should have done this 20 years earlier? No, no. I always was grateful that it was later. And I felt like it was important that I had a stronger sense of self who I was.

1:14:02Yeah, because you're going to have to model what it is to be a woman in this society of ours. I love that, yes. But you're watching children's programming with her when she's like two, and you start noticing a lot of little boys in these shows. I did. The very first thing I showed her, I had her on my lap, and I'm thinking, oh, this is great. It's a preschool show. I think it's because of Thelma and Louise, and it really heightened my awareness of how women are portrayed. because women had so few opportunities to come out of a movie feeling empowered by the female characters. So I immediately noticed that there seemed to be far more male characters.

1:14:36I even looked it up and they had one female character in this large cast. And I was like, well, that's weird. And then rented a video and it was like that, a movie that came out. And I'd go, wait a minute. Yeah. And you were thinking what I would be thinking, which is like, oh, this has already been fixed. I had thought that. Yeah, we're like, we're 12 years past Thelma and Louise. I assume this has been straightened out. Oh, right. Absolutely. And then I immediately kind of went global with it because I'm like, wait, so we're training kids from minute one to have unconscious gender bias. How can they not get it when every single situation has one female?

1:15:19Turned out to be three to one. The little rascals, you know, like when they get Darla and that. Yeah, we got it. We got Darla. Back to the boys. Right. How could a young girl not into it? Well, there's one third as many roles, one fourth as many opportunities for me. I should recognize that. That's the world I'm entering. Right. And also, how are boys aren't going to recognize that they're more important than girls? Yeah, right. How are they even going to care about the female character? They're being told what's important. Right, right. But you had a novel approach to addressing this. Well, I went to the Olympics in it.

1:15:52everything I do, I have to be careful about taking it up because whatever it is, I want to go to the Olympics. But I asked people constantly in the industry, whatever meeting I had, whoever it was, I'd say, have you ever noticed how few female characters there are in entertainment made for kids? And every single person said, oh, no, no, no, that's not true anymore. No, that's been fixed. And they said, we fixed it at our studio, at our production company, whatever. And they would very often name a movie with one female character as proof that gender inequality was not a thing anymore. It's like saying, well, we have Obama as a president.

1:16:31Racism's over. Exactly. So it made me realize this is utterly unconscious and they think it's not true. So if I was able to, with data, show them that it is true, this big imbalance, maybe they won't want to change. So I sponsored of this largest research study ever done on kids' TV and movies. Through the Annenberg School at USC, were they your partners? That was. That's incredible. At that time, yes. And then started visiting anybody who makes children's entertainment. The first studio that we went to, we finished the presentation, and their heads were in their hands. Their jaws were on the ground.

1:17:12They were like, how did we not know this? All we care about is doing right by kids. And we never thought of this. Because at that time, the conclusion of your study, right, was it was three boys to every girl. Right. And the lead characters, it was 11 to 1. Oh, wow. For a lead female character. And crowd scenes and everything were wildly imbalanced. So we went everywhere. Everybody was horrified and everybody started changing what they were doing. That was 2004. Where are we at now? I think 2020 was the data I read. So even four years ago, where was it? Yeah, now we're at Parity and children's TV show.

1:17:51Wow, that's amazing. Oh, my God. Yeah. You should be so proud of yourself. 15, 16 years. Oh, that's incredible. We're so happy. Yeah, the latest study we did, we looked specifically at new kids' programs that just came out, and it was 50-50. Oh, my goodness. That is so—what an accomplishment. Of all your accomplishments, I hope that's maybe one of your highest. That's incredible. She also created the Benton Film Festival, Bentonville. Are you friends with one of the Waltons? Is that a Walton project? No. Walmart came up with the idea, actually, of having a film festival that focused on diversity and somehow thought of me.

1:18:32Probably not somehow. You're like, yeah, the most seminal feminist movie ever. Yeah, I co-founded it. A cool thing about the Waltons is to get their inheritance, all the children, they have to take on a large public works project. and make their community better. So like Bentonville is this very weird town in the middle of Arkansas, right? You've been there? I have, yeah. But they have like one of the best museums in the world and they have the best bicycle parkway, right? They have all these like incredible installations because of how they get their inheritance, which is so cool. It's so incredible.

1:19:03And Alice Walton just built the best medical school ever built. And it's, I think it's either free or something. Oh, wow. If you agree to stay in the area and work for a certain number of years. It's this pocket of progressive explosion. It's incredible. With like some of the best art pieces in the world. It's hilarious. You can imagine one day Bentonville being like this weird Eden that they have created through all these public works projects. Okay, The Burroughs. Yes. I'm watching it and I love it. It's sweeping Netflix by storm, right? I think I saw it as number one. Oh, amazing. This is so wonderful and encouraging.

1:19:41Okay, so the boroughs, you explain how you want to explain it. I'm going to use a reference that only people my age will like, but I want to hear how you would set it up. It takes place in a fancy, fancy retirement community. I want to live there. It looks very appealing. That's been my dream life. I want to live in a camp. Yes. But for adults. Golf cart, shuffleboard. Right. They say, well, now we're going to go canoe. Oh, okay. Now we're going to take a field trip. Okay. Now it's lunch. Yes, now it's lunch. And I don't have to decide anything. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's what I want. So retirement community, and it focuses on a group of friends that live all in the same cul-de-sac, and then something spooky and dangerous starts happening.

1:20:24A la Stranger Things. It's Duffer Brothers. So there's like some, I don't know, there's a creature. Is he an alien? Is he a weird animal? Is he a monster from your childhood? Monster. Ooh, right? What I like about it, and I hope you take this as a compliment because I fucking love this movie and it speaks to how much it transcended that I would have watched this movie at 10 and loved it. But Cocoon is still one of my favorite movies ever. Do you remember Cocoon? Oh, yeah. There are these, did you ever see Cocoon, Monica? There are these alien pods. These little cocooning aliens are in a swimming pool and it's giving them magic powers and they all get very youthful.

1:21:01Now, what's incredible is, have you ever seen the Instagram post that says all of their ages from that movie? No, they weren't really that old. Brimley was like 52 years old. Oh my God. I don't think anyone in the cast was over 60. Maybe Alan Arkin or something. But nobody's even over 60. And we watched that movie like, oh, look at these grandpas have superpowers. Isn't that crazy? That's crazy. It is. Same with Golden Girls. Yeah, Golden Girls. They were all young. Stel Geddes was like almost the same age as her daughter. At least it was like in their 40s on that show. Playing a retired grandma.

1:21:36Did they think people just couldn't stand? I want to actually watch old people. It's such a different time. Oh, yeah. The way we look at age. I've had this moment several times where it's like I get offered a role and the character has an 18-year-old or a 24-year-old. And I'm like, yeah, that's correct chronologically. I just think this job has a very weird ability to remind you in a very cruel way of how old you are all the time. Yes. It's like, you get the thing, it's like, oh, I'm someone with a terminal disease. That's who I'm playing. That's where we're at. So did you have any like shock of like, yeah, it makes sense that I would be in a show about this?

1:22:16Yes, I was like that. But like you, I mean, I turned down any number of roles because the character had adult children or. Grandma. And I was like, at no time on earth am I going to play a grandma. But no, I was very whatever age I was. But I don't even want teenage kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this made sense. I've been on a couple of shows where the older cast members are going to have to die. Right. Like I was on this great show, Parenthood. And Craig T. Nelson, who's just a blessing. Yeah. He's going to play someone's dying. I mean, vaguely of old age, you know, like just a hard thing. But still.

1:22:55And I just remember talking to him and being like, is this tricky, dude? Like, I think it would be tricky for me to go like, wait, this makes sense to everybody that I'd be playing someone that might drop dead right now. This is a lot, I think, to contend with. Exactly. Well, the good thing, I think something I really like about this show is we're all very able. We can battle dangerous things and there's no beats about how we can't even get up there. Right. No, but there is a scene where you're all showing off your scars. That's true. And everyone's had a massive operation, right? Someone's had their whole front cut up and someone's had their back cut up.

1:23:32You've had your hip replaced. First, I just love the show. It's so good. Your character is so fun. You're kind of the vixen of the scene. You're an ex-music manager. So you're like hip and cool and you drive a cool Farrell-in convertible and you're awesome. You're a rock star. But I was like, we are still a little bit caught in the notion, like you wouldn't be in a retirement community. In reality, they need to be 15 years older. Everything's changed. When I was young, all seven-year-olds were in retirement communities. That's not how it is now. It's not how it is now. And my character is the only one who didn't plan to go there.

1:24:09My mom bought that house and I had to take care of her. And I also lost all my money. And then I just ended up staying. But a few times I refer to the fact that I don't really belong here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Had you worked with Alfred Molina or Bill Pullman before? This is my third thing with Bill Pullman. My third project with Ed Begley Jr. I've done three with him as well. Really? What a sweetheart, huh? Isn't he the sweetest? Oh, I love it. It scares me how sweet he is. But also, Bill Pullman is like that. He's so sweet and wonderful. I've never met him. Yeah, oh God. It's so weird to say this, but he's weirdly a revelation in this show.

1:24:48Right? He is. Even though I've seen him a million times, I'm like, this is great. He's like a fucking beach stoner, retired dude. He's so chill. Yeah. He's incredible. It makes you go, oh, no wonder they got him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is great. This sounds like it's doing like anti-ageism work. Yeah. You have a very young lover. He's 40. Yeah. He's 30 years younger than me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fun. So. But Renee's like, so what? Yeah. It's great. feeling very confident and so is he and everyone's winning but I will say I was watching it with my wife and our 13 year old and 11 year old daughters last night and I love these situations right like I'm feeling a certain way and I'm like I'm gonna bring this up to everyone and I said during that scene we were watching the sexy scene with you guys and I said isn't it crazy you guys that we have seen at this point, a thousand movies where the age gap was this, but it was the guy and the woman, and you don't notice, but this is highly noticeable.

1:25:55Yes. And isn't that really something? Like, let's just talk about that for a minute. It really is. You wouldn't think about Michael Douglas is in something and he's got a 40-year-old. You know, you just... Yeah, it happens all the time in films. Because you don't even notice. But this is very noticeable. Right. because we're not used to it. That's why it's noticeable. It's just a juicy thing for you to get to talk about with your kids. It's an opportunity to hear what these young girls think about that. Like, oh, wow, why are we seeing this for the first time? Yeah, that's so cool you brought that up.

1:26:30I really dig that. We're watching something from the 70s or 80s and something gnarly happens. It just doesn't happen that way anymore. Like the way guys are talking to women or something. And we're just pausing and being like, well, what do you guys think of this? Oh, that's so cool. That was kind of standard biz. In the 80s, that was like standard. Guys would just say shit like that to women. You know, what do we think about this? I was figuring to watch it with your kids. When my kids were little, I watched everything with them because I felt like I could be their media interpreter. I would say, why do you think she's wearing that if she's going to go rescue somebody?

1:27:04Doesn't that seem like it's not appropriate? Did you notice, do you think girls could do what all those boys are doing? Why don't you think there's more? So it got to the point where, And even if we're out at a movie, if I just went like this, I go, I know, mom, there's not enough girls in that scene. I know, I know. We know, we know, we know. I'm aware. It's so great. That's the best part, though. Kids are supposed to fuck with their moms. My wife's constantly talking about what neurologist she just saw on Instagram and what new hack we have. And as soon as my wife starts talking, either girl's like, is this one of your neurologists from Instagram or did you actually?

1:27:37And they're like 11 and 13. They've already got it dialed, you know. That's hilarious. Okay, the last thing I want to talk about is you just kind of went viral. Second weekend of Coachella, you were a guest at the Sabrina Carpenter show. Yeah, not just a guest. I was on stage. Oh, yes. I guess guest means you were in attendance. No, you were on stage in a convertible Cadillac or something like that. Very much Thelma and Louise-esque. And Susan had done it the weekend before. Yes. Oh, fun. I had no idea when she did that. I thought, oh, that's cool. I had no idea they were then going to ask me to do it.

1:28:14But that was wild. Who calls you? Does Sabrina Carpenter herself call you? No. I mean, they called my agent. Her people did, I guess. But she was the one that wanted me to do it. That's awesome. What do you think of her? I love her. Oh, I love her so much. And she was so wonderful in person and so charming and gave me a T-shirt. I guess the title of her show was Sabrina Wood. And so she gave it one that said Gina Wood. Oh, cute. I loved it. It was so fun. But I didn't expect it to blow up like that. Somebody said, you're trending. I'm like, what? Yeah. You never know what's coming. You never do.

1:28:51I have so much gratitude for her, for Taylor Swift. I've taken our daughters to both of those performers. Oh, that's great. For them to be little girls watching these women who have created a true matriarchy. They have their own world, and they are the top of that world. They don't have to suffer any fools. They're in charge. There weren't a ton of examples like that. And now there's a ton. It's true. It's true. It's incredible. Yeah, it is. Yeah. I'm delighted that that happened. Had you ever been to Coachella? No. Yeah, me neither. No. I think that's the way I want to go the first time I want to be on stage.

1:29:27We didn't even have stage doing some cool. The most loved performance of the night. Exactly. Okay. And then lastly, where are you at? Are you still susceptible to if a guy likes you? Or have we evolved in that? If a guy just simply likes you, is that enough anymore? No, that wouldn't be enough. That's not enough anymore. Good, you shed that. And what did you learn when that shifted? When you started thinking, wait, what do I like? Is that what it was? Right. I had been attracted to extroverted, flashy, shiny men. And now not so much anymore. Not so much. So Brad Pitt doesn't have a chance now.

1:30:03Actually, well, let me make an exception. I can make an exception. Let's not exclude him. the pool of bachelors would consider oh well gina i adore you for real sincerely long kiss goodnight it was one of the first films i think i owned on blu-ray that i watch over and over again i just love it i'm so in the mood to watch it again i can't wait to show my daughters it's an honor to meet you yeah i'm really excited i just want to tell you one thing about like sam and i well we changed the ending when we were shooting because we realized we'd love to do a sequel and in the original script, Sam's character dies.

1:30:40So we reshot the last scene and made him live. And I know it's all these years later, but we still, Sam and I, talk about we're dying to do a sequel. Oh, I would love to know. You should. Well, I know, but we've got to get somebody to do it. I nominate Netflix. Yeah. Let's get Netflix on. If you're there, you're crushing, they want to be in the Gina business now. Gina would. Let's get, yeah, Gina would. Would Gina do a sequel? Yeah, Gina would. Gina is open to a sequel. All right. Well, lovely meeting you. Thanks for the work you've done on the gender parody with kids shows. And hopefully that moves upstream all the way.

1:31:20And everyone watch the borough. Thanks so much, Gina. Thank you. This is really fun. Thank you. Yeah. Just a quick reminder that as part of our summer break, here's a rerun of one of our favorite fact checks.

1:31:38I got my hair cut today. Barb did my hair. Where'd you find Barb? Barb Chopstick? What'd you say? Don't ever say that again. No, what did you say? Barb Thompson. Thompson. Okay. She's awesome. And she's done my hair before. She did it for a gala. Okay. One of the only galas I've ever been to. And she's great. Always a bridesmaid, never a gala. I know. And she said you did a great job. Are you throwing your hair out on your legs, too? Oh, don't look. I just haven't shaved. Fuck. Oh, but I didn't know if you were making a decision like everyone's making. Oh, my God. That was a fair question. Oh, my God.

1:32:18What happened? I'm sorry. I can't believe you did that. Well, I wanted to celebrate you if you were embracing. Fuck that. No. Okay. I take care of my hair. Okay. I just haven't, and it's hot out. Yeah, that's great. Can you understand there's a movement where women aren't shaving anymore, And I thought maybe you joined that movement. I was really actually self-conscious that it would get noticed. And I was like, there's no way anyone will notice. And you noticed immediately. I'm very observant. You know this about me. I know. I don't miss a thing. It just takes a long time to shave. Yeah, I'm in the same boat.

1:32:52I shave my arms now. I have all this money tied up in these tattoos, and I want them to be visible. That makes sense. Well, you know, I also, I have to groom my arms, my legs, my armpits, my vagina parts. Yeah, and I feel terrible for you. I've said that now that I'm grooming a lot. Yeah, it sucks. Speaking of how's the cashmere, we haven't even seen it in a while. Well, you know who's a real producer is Delta. Yeah. Yeah. But are you collecting? Yeah, yeah, it's growing. Although I may have a big, I might have a, I'm now thinking I might have a nice deposit in the drawer in my bathroom. Oh, great.

1:33:31I think maybe I haven't transferred some to the main storage. Okay, great. Okay. I had been wanting to tell you a story. Oh, yeah. Okay, so we all went to Monster Jam on Saturday. Yeah. Describe we all. Okay, so we all is Charlie and the boys, Ace and Wilder, the two handsomest men in Los Angeles. And then my girls, Lincoln and Delta, and then Delta's friend. Fun. Yeah. And then Eric. Eric. Yeah. That's all. So we went. It was immediately fun. It's so fun. Monster Jam is so fun. We got to ride in the like 12 passenger monster truck. That's great. I was kind of not clocking any of this, but apparently Delta and her friend had brought their two most important stuffies in a red bag.

1:34:24I didn't know that. I probably would have been like, maybe we don't bring them into the event. Can you describe the stuffies? Yes. It's imperative that people understand the stakes here. So anyone that knows Delta would know her son, Groot. Oh, my God. I don't even count Groot as a stuffy. When you said that, I wasn't thinking of him. He's a real boy. He really is. Unlike the robot. I don't know that I've ever seen. And I had very deep relationships with my stuffies. I had three bears that I loved and I thought about them. And if I was gone too long, I felt guilty. Like I was very in touch and close with my stuffies.

1:35:00What were their names? I don't, I didn't name them. One was a polar bear, one was a brown bear, and one was like a... And? Koala bear. They were different breeds, so I didn't... Breeds. I see. The species. So you just said koala, polar. I just never was like... You never called them. Addressing them. I was just squeezing them and feeling guilty. But what if like it was downstairs and you had to tell your mom like, oh my God, polar is missing. That would never like... It would never happen. I would never. Lose track. Never. Okay. And they didn't travel out of my room either. because I was too afraid something would happen to them in the wild.

1:35:37Okay, but to put like this in perspective, Groot goes everywhere with us. Groot has truly a bigger wardrobe than Delta. He has many different jammies. He has swimwear. For Delta's birthday, she'll often ask for clothes for Groot. Mostly that's all she asks for is things for Groot. And he has books he reads and he's an artist and she makes him dinner. And he like, it's such a huge part of her life. And then I didn't know this. I learned this recently about Groot. She was kind of explaining what was going on with him athletically. And then I said, is Groot disabled? And she said, yeah, Groot is disabled.

1:36:18And I said, oh, what's his disability? And she said, well, he's half tree and half boy. So he needs to breathe carbon dioxide as a tree. but he needs to breathe oxygen as a boy. So his lungs are like half dedicated to breathing. And so that's kind of an impairment for his cardiovascular. Additionally, this is all real. Like I didn't even know Groot was disabled. But I just had a hunch. There was some way she was talking about his athleticism and his outfit. Sure. I don't know. I asked. And he is. And then she went on to tell me another challenge he has is he's got both veins. And then he also has to have plumbing for the water.

1:37:07So it's like his body's sharing a lot of. Wow. Double duty. Double duty. Also, his bark hasn't come in and that's going to make him more stable. Oh, wow. Yeah, so there's a lot going on. Okay. Wow. And I'm going to be honest. I love Groot. Like he's also my grandson. And when we snuggle at night, I go, I want a little time with Groot. So he has to be in my nook. Does everyone have to leave? No, no, no, no. Just I will want Groot in my left nook and Delta in my right nook if we're all laying together. But she's got to give me some grandpa visit. Okay, never mind. Anyone? Uh-oh. Never mind. I don't want to say.

1:37:44Okay, good. I'm afraid I know him. It's because you like him in your nook and like, like a kid, like a kid. Yeah, like a little baby boy. So, okay. So, great time. We're having the best time. Now we're up in this huge suite. There's like 50 people in there. It's a blast. It's hectic. And Delta comes up like mid-show. Again, I'm going to say it. I've said it before. There's no better show on earth than Monster Jam. It starts and it doesn't let up. Race, race, race, race, race. Stun, stun, stun. Yeah. So it's a party. We're eating food. And then Delta comes up to me and she is... She's passed. Like she's, I don't want to say she's hyperventilating.

1:38:28She is so scared and panicked. And she said, we don't, we lost Groot. And I'm like, what do you mean? I didn't even know Groot was in here. We lost the bag. So her friend was in charge of carrying the bag. She brought it in here. Someone maybe stole it or whatever. And I'm like, okay, no one stole it. Everyone that came is still here. No one left mid time, you know? So now we start scouring all the bathrooms in there and then we go through systematically and we look under every single chair. This takes 35, 40 minutes. I'm missing the monster jam. Sure. You can hear it still. I can hear it. That is helpful.

1:39:04And I say at some point, OK, it's not in here, which means it didn't it didn't come up here. Oh, now we arrived and we went right out onto the to the arena floor to take that ride. So it's like, we're seven stories up. That was pre-show. Did they take him into the monster truck? Yes. So, well, here becomes the investigation. So then Charlie and I, I'm like, oh, I made a video of them. I'm like, did they even bring the bag out of the car? Right. Let's hope not. I took pictures. Yeah. I take some. Oh, yeah, there's the red bag. Then I have footage of them getting on to the monster truck and she's carrying the bag.

1:39:44We don't have footage of them getting off. But I'm like, but this is. She would have never set it down in the elevator or on the walk. It definitely had to get left in the truck. So now, exactly. And we're now mid-show. This is hours later. And is that truck like out on the thing? No. That truck has now been already put in a trailer to go to the next Monster Jam. So I like, I asked my friend Sally, who I've been, you know, Going to Monster Jam with Sally as our host for, I don't know, eight years now. Yeah. She's an incredible lady. Nice. She's an arm cherry. Aw, shout out. She's so sweet. And I'm like, I don't know what else to do.

1:40:28But like, here's the situation. She's a mom. She put out a full court press. Oh, look. Okay, I'll try to get into that truck. Like, I'll try to find the truck in the parking lot and try to get into the semi to get into this monster. Oh, my God. So like an hour goes by and Delta is really like she lost her son. Oh, my God. And I'm I'm very pessimistic. I'm like, who knows? They set that bag down anyway. There was so many bags and so many things and so much equipment. It's in an arena. So I was really, really pessimistic. And then the show ends. And then we just sit there for another 45 minutes while the whole place clears out.

1:41:10We're kind of like waiting to see if they're going to find group. And then she says, well, you guys are free to if you want to just wait in the car. So anyways, we go sit in the car now. And then I get a text from Sally. It's a picture of her and she's elated and she's holding the bag. She found the bag in a random golf cart somewhere. No. Yeah. It was on its way to the trash. On its way to a sex trafficking. Don't say that. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. What a tale. Oh, my God. It was the amount of relief I felt. So obsessed. Scary. When that bag returned. You know, I was starting to think about what our next two weeks to a month.

1:41:54Like, I was like, this is going to be. Imagine when it's like to lose your son. You never get over it. Yeah. It's going to be devastating in a way that I'm not sure how we're all going to deal with. We lost Groot forever. That is so scary. And then I said to her, I was like, once we had Groot, I was like, you know, I started thinking like what do I do would you have wanted me to find the same group and she's like no yeah because it's real and he's real there's no replacing him well and so she answered our long lasting question about would you clone would you clone your dog or your kid she won't she's like me yeah she is I guess she has ethics I don't know we don't know what that means ethically Oh, gosh.

1:42:40That's why. But, okay, if he had gone in the monster truck and then got sent to the next monster truck show, that's a kid's book. That's a children's book. And, like, they love him and he becomes kind of a mascot for Monster Jam. Yes, but then he returns back home always. Yeah, but he's like, now he chews tobacco and he's grown up a little bit. We have different versions of the story. Well, he's on the Monster Jam tour. Yeah, he is. He's on the tour. He's not going to, like, symposiums on physics. But he's very, it's very Toy Story. Yes, yes. He could have been on a real adventure. I don't think all the dust from the monster truck would be good for his lungs.

1:43:19Well, not given what I've learned about his. Now, what if like the driver of Gravedigger found him and started keeping him on the dash? Oh. And we could like, then we were watching and he was riding on the dash proudly. Oh my God, that's terrifying. Oh, it was really an event. So I missed a good half of Monster Jam, both looking for and then panicking over. Oh, Sally, really hero. Sally, oh my God, the hero of all heroes. Wow. Yeah, I mean, if you were to ask me at some point what I would pay for his safe return, it would have been embarrassing. I know, but Dax, that's life. It's like you can't buy health.

1:44:01Well, actually, I mean, to an extent you can, which is a problem. But, you know, that's why health is the most important thing we have. And just being there, I guess. Being alive. Yeah, being there. Being present. Being present. Well, I'm also grateful because I immediately got codependent for the girl. The friend. Can you imagine? No, I know. So that was all happening. She now feels so guilty and she's crying. Delta's crying inconsolably. Yep. Her friend's crying. Yeah. This is the worst day. I'm like the dad watching. And so I kept going, oh, sweetie, it's totally okay. Delta should have been carrying her own bag.

1:44:41Oh, that's nice. I was like trying to comfort her and trying to comfort Delta. Her Groot is in there too. Oh, it is? She's got the double whammy. She's lost her stuffy and she lost Delta's stuffy. Who was her stuffy? I didn't get a good gander at it once. They were all reunited. I didn't even know we were bringing stuffies to Monster Jam. Not anymore. I hope not. And then, okay, now this is the thing that we go back to. We've been talking about this the last few episodes. I'm like, and I'm talking to Charlie and Eric. I'm like, you know, all I got to do is keep trying to find Groot and not say, this is why we don't.

1:45:19What you want to say as a parent is this is why we don't bring stuffies to sporting events. And I was like, she has learned that lesson. I don't need to tell her that. She is in major discomfort. Yeah. And so I let it go. But then I on the way home, I was just saying how grateful I was that he's back. You're slipping it in a little bit? A little bit. And then and then I said, he's just so valuable. We got to make sure that we're safe when we bring a place. She goes, but he can't just be a boy that lives at home and doesn't go and do things. I can't just be protecting him from and I'm like that.

1:45:56I know that's a great point, but there's a ton of things we can take him to. so he's not stuck in the house, but that are also maybe not so distracting as Monster Jam. This is complex because this is how you feel about your kids. This is how you parent them. You're like, you know, I'm going to let them go explore the world. And another person could say, look, they're a little too valuable for that. Don't let them just go down the street to Ralph's where there's crazies. So it looks like she's - I inherited my parenting. Looks like it's nurture. Yeah, in this case. Wow. Yeah. I'm grateful. I'm so grateful.

1:46:37I would have been really. You understand. Yeah, it would have been so sad if group. I mean, I would have been happy for him if he was on an adventure, but we know that really he would have gone in the trash. Well, he's so cute. Dax, missing persons after like 48 hours, they're dead. Okay, so you think he might someone murder him? Trash. Okay. I just can't imagine holding that little guy. He's so sweet looking. Oh, I know. I told her that's why I didn't know he had a disability because he's so smiley. I have no idea he's suffering from anything. He's in a perpetually great mood. Well, that's the thing.

1:47:11Is he in pain? It sounded like there's some pain accompanying these. Okay. Yeah. Now, don't trick her into getting like pain meds for him. I might see if we can get some nerve blockers. Oh, my God. Wow. That isn't quite an adventure. I'm yeah I'm really glad that had a happy ending oh me too anything fun happen to you yeah okay so you've been gone a couple days um in the meantime I've watched two full seasons of you the show you which reminds me I want to play the thing about me exactly it's about time that we revisit that because I'm watching it oh it's such a great exchange okay let's Laura Ingram Yeah.

1:47:57You want me to put it on the TV? Oh, yeah, you can. This is my favorite clip of all time. And now it has extra meaning because I'm watching the show. Is it a great show? I love it. It has real Veronica Mars vibes. Oh, fun. But it's like Dexter meets Veronica Mars. But I've never seen Dexter. Okay. Okay, let's watch this real quick. Yeah. You know, I was watching an episode of You where measles came up. Wait, wait, wait. When did I mention measles? I don't know. It was on you. What was on me? What are you talking about? I never had the measles. It was on you. We never did a measles and vaccine episode.

1:48:45Is this a joke? I know. It was on you. It was on you. I never had. Raymond, I never had measles. I'm talking about it. Stupid. It's an episode of a show, Laura. What's it called? You. You. You never done a show on me. I just completely give up. We gotta go. It's a show called You on Netflix. It's a show called Laura and I. I'm moving on to Adele. I can't explain this to you. What are they talking about? So stupid. It's so funny. It's a real life who's on first. It really is. Oh my God. Anyway. So yeah, I started you random. It like popped up as the next, this never works out. Right, right. Auto-recommend.

1:49:38Auto-play or whatever. And I was like, sure, why not? Watch the whole thing. And then last night stayed up so late. I couldn't even look at the time. I was too afraid to look. Oh, wow. And watch all of season two. How many episodes in each? 10? So you watch 20 episodes. They're like 45-ish minutes. Yes. Oh, my God. Okay, so it is Penn Badgley from Gossip Girl, who I loved back then, Dan Humphrey. Okay, great. And he recently, he has a podcast, but also I saw there's like an Instagram kind of viral video of him like dancing on one of these talk shows. Well? Well. Okay. In my opinion. Yeah, yeah.

1:50:18And so I was like, oh, yeah, I love him. Oh, yeah. And then he pops up. So dancing is attractive. You know what? It is. Okay. I'm going to circle back. I didn't say it wasn't. Right, right, right. You just didn't put it very high on the list. Yeah. But turns out it's really high. Yeah. So anyway, then it pops up and he is a, he's a stalker. Like he's obsessed with this woman. Uh-oh. There's like murder. Ooh. He's a psychopath. But it's a love story and he's hot. And it's confusing. Yeah. It's sexy. It's scary. Yeah. Very thin line for women there. Well, I know. And I hated myself, of course. Sure.

1:51:03I heard him say on an interview something like that, like, or someone asked, like, what do you think of when people say he's hot? Yeah. And he was like, he's a killer. Right. So I saw that clip before I watched the show and I was like, yeah, he's right. This is cool. People are crazy. Yeah. And then, of course, I'm like, he's hot. Yeah. He's also tricky because he's like kind of a good boyfriend if he wasn't a murderer and putting people in cages. Right. Yeah. Who just was everyone obsessed with that salsa was a murderer? Wasn't there recently someone everyone thought was hot? Was it the United Health?

1:51:40Oh, God. Assassin with people like really horny for him. Luigi. Luigi. GG. That one, that's real life, so I find that much more complicated. I do not think he's hot. You don't think he's hot? No. I don't think there's anything good about killing. Would you think he was hot without the murder? There's no way for me to know. Yeah, you can't go back in time. He's got very powerful eyebrows. I don't think murder is hot in real life, and I don't think vigilantes are hot. Okay. I'm going to say that. Good to know. I'm not. There's a lot of people that are like good for him. Oh, yeah. And I disagree.

1:52:20Yeah. Yeah. I disagree. Holy. I think that industry is evil and I don't think you're allowed to kill people. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Except in the show, sometimes he does kill some people I really don't like. And it is vigilante. And like it's for kids. He's protect. Sometimes he protects kids. He's weird. He's like kind of this like good friend. Hard to pin down. Mixed messages. Really, really mixed messages. Anyway, I am loving it. Oh, wow. That's great. Five seasons. Oh, there's five seasons. Oh, so you're fucked for the whole week. I know. So what time did you go to bed? Do you know? I really don't know, but I was so tired when my alarm went off at nine.

1:53:04Okay, yeah. So probably stayed up until two or three. Probably three. Wow, you're nasty. I can't help myself. I know, you're indulgent. And because I'm scared a little. Like, it's very cliffhanger-y. It's very good at keeping you on the hook. So I'm a little too scared in those scenarios to go to bed. Like, I need to know how it's completed. But they do a good job at the end of each season, too. You never know. I did star episode three, but then I was like, Monica, no. Yeah, you got to stop. I got to stop. So I turned it off about halfway through that. When I woke up this morning after so much murder, I was like, I think I need to take a break today.

1:53:47Because it really gets infiltrated. And then it made me think this is what's happening with boys in video games. It's like a constant. They're living in this world that's dark and bleak and they're shooting people and stuff. And then like reality starts to disappear. you're feeling that happen to you well i just could see it this is your ocd like this is you think you're a you're a killer or you think you're a pervert i don't okay in this show it's a lot of voiceover because you're hearing his thoughts yeah and so then today i was kind of hearing my thoughts like that right and i thought i need to take a break yeah take a little break no but i I also really want to know what happened.

1:54:36All right, let's see if there's anything else I want to talk about. You know, you're really tunnel vision. It is easy. I get why. I get how it happened. She's only so culpable. It was very confusing. But it was just. And he didn't do a good job. Like he should have recognized what was going on much sooner and said, it's a television show on Netflix. And the title is you. And the title is you. Why? Oh, you. Yes. and not Laura Ingraham. But he did end up saying it's a show on Netflix called You. And she still said Laura Ingraham on Netflix. But he did say I was watching You about seven times before it's a show on Netflix.

1:55:16It's so good. I almost feel like it's fake and I don't want to like look too into it. I don't think so. I don't either. It's such a genuine reaction from her. All right. Well, that's it. Let's move into facts. Yeah, yeah. Facts. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. If you dare. We get support from Skims. Monica has been on a whole kick lately. I really have. When I get new Skims, it is like Christmas. I get so excited. I love Skims and they have Skims cotton, which I literally reach for every single day. The fabric is really soft, but it also holds its shape. There's nothing worse than... Sagsville.

1:56:00Exactly. It's really bad. That's Kim's never does that. Every single piece I've gotten from them still looks brand new. After a lot of washes, there's no stretching. They lay perfectly and they support in all the right places. You're pretty particular about that stuff too, which is saying something. It is. And I'll just say it. The lightweight cotton thong is the best one I've ever tried. I also have their cotton jersey t-shirt. I have it in black and I really love it. It is a tight fit, but it is very flattering. Sometimes I don't love a tight fit shirt, but Skims just does everything right. I really don't know what they're doing over there.

1:56:35The T-shirt is perfect for summer. It's a great summer shirt. Go get yours. Shop Skims cotton and all of my favorite pieces at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select armchair expert in the drop down menu that follows.

1:56:56So facts for Nick Kroll. When he said daddy's money, when he brought that, I keep thinking how funny that was when he said that. Do you remember that? Yes. I don't care because I have daddy's money. Yeah. That was so funny. Also, I wrote down specifically when he said sick little cutie. I laughed so hard at sick little cutie. I thought that was the funniest. Just a sick little cutie. He was a mess. He was coughing and snorting. A little indigestion there for a minute. I fucking loved it. It was great. And then I was kind of like, oh, Sick Little Cutie is kind of like. And my kink. That is your kink.

1:57:40Yeah. Sick little cutie. That could be your clothing line. Sick little cuties. Sick little cuties.

1:57:48Anyway, that was just, it really made me laugh. He's so funny. But it's more than that. He's got that thing some people have where he is just like infinitely comfortable in his own skin, which is so appealing. Yeah. It's such a comforting personality type. It is. Yeah. The women came after me. Should I tell you that? What do you mean? The women, my, what I thought was an incredibly obvious joke about period, period underwear and tampax, such a joke. Some women really came at me hard. I think they also might. I don't know if they really think that or if they're like playing along. They're playing your role maybe.

1:58:27Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We really did uncover though something with the X. Yeah, I know. Because Maxi Pad, tampax. MaxiPad would have been the first. Probably. Yeah. And then NYX. And then. Thinx. What is it? Thinx. That's another brand of. Thinx. And they go on your. They cover your. That's different. Okay. Yeah. Women. X. Because X chromosome. Someone suggested that in the comments. And I think that's brilliant. And I don't think that's what it is. But that's a brilliant. How could you possibly know? I'm just trying to imagine the Tampax people going like, okay, let's call it, it's a tampon, but let's build on that and let's add X because of the chromosome.

1:59:16What's your idea? That they wanted to imbue a sense of max, like max comfort, max absorption, max freshness, max, what was the word? Huh? They had the word attached to Tampax in the ad we showed. Oh, radiant. Max radiance. But it's not. It's Tampax. Yeah. Not Tam Max. Tampaximum. I think it's X chromosome. That's good. It's good. We'd have to track down whoever named. Maxipad. That's the original. I bet you can do that and come back to us. Do you think they're alive? Probably their kids are kids of kids. Okay. Well, while you read a fact, I'm going to ask AI if the inventor of MaxiPads is still alive.

2:00:05Okay, great. Is the inventor of MaxiPads still alive? If people listen to the CTE episode with Chris Nowinski, and then also it came up in another episode, The P-Baby. Uh-huh. We had AI make a video of us originally talking about the P-Baby, the original story of P-Baby. Oh, really? Yeah. And I'm going to post it tomorrow. But so by the time you listen to this, it will be posted. And I really, really recommend people going to watch this. It'll be on our Instagram. Because for one, the story is just you need a good reminder of the P-Baby. But the AI is hilarious. Oh, I can't wait to see it. And it's like a version of you and me.

2:00:53The AI made versions of us. It's so funny. I can't wait to see. Yeah. Were you holding this as a surprise for me? No. I just forgot. I'm doing stuff. You got things to do. Anyway, so check that out. Check out the P-Baby and the AI. It just reminded me AI. Okay, great. Did it respond? Well, it had to have. Mary Beatrice Davidson Kenner, an African-American inventor, is renowned for her development of the adjustable sanitary belt, a precursor to the modern maxi pad. Okay, so they really went back. That was 1912. Oh, wow. She passed away in 06, so that's off the table. Kenner's invention patented and it featured a moisture-proof pocket designed to hold menstrual pads securely in place.

2:01:38The innovation. Okay. We're in Krenner face racial discrimination. That's a bummer. And, of course, was awarded five patents. In summary, Mary B. Des Davis and Kenner passed away in 06. Okay. So I don't know if we're giving her credit for a maxi pad or she did the belt. Okay. Okay. All right. So we didn't learn anything. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Great. Now, what are the most watched shows on Netflix? This is on Wikipedia. And notoriously, Netflix doesn't really release this information. So or they do it weird. They do. They'll do like a minute. Like, so I just saw this. And congrats to Dumao and Minka Kelly.

2:02:15Oh, Ransom Canyon. Ransom Canyon has two point six billion minutes viewed. and to put it in perspective, Mobland, which I love and is seemingly a hit, everyone I know is watching it, had like 580 million. So a four and a half acts of second place. But they do minutes, right? So that's an interesting way to quantify it. Interesting. As opposed to like households who watched it. Is it minutes or hours? Minutes. Interesting. Okay. Well, this is just Wikipedia. Oh, and its most popular television series by hours watching their first 28 days. Number one is Squid Game season one. Yeah. Stranger Things.

2:02:59Oh, yeah. Is number two. Three is Wednesday. Okay. Four is Squid Game season two. Mm-hmm. Five is Dahmer Monster, the Jeffrey Dahmer story. Wow. I wouldn't have picked that up just from walking around and people telling me to watch stuff. Yeah. That one's a surprise for me. Six is Money Heist. That was a big, big show. Yes. I think maybe it was in Spanish, I think. Yeah. Anna turned us on to it. She loved it. Yeah. Oh, wait. No, sorry. That's so six is Money Heist part five. Okay. Interesting. Seven, eight, and nine. are Bridgerton, season one, two, and three. Uh-huh. And then 10 Money Heist part four.

2:03:50Okay. 11 Stranger Things. I need to give Money Heist another shot. It was subtitled? Yeah, I think so. I know I would watch that. I'm still in ER. Oh, I know when I started, which is so fucking good. The Pit? Deli Boys. Oh, I want to watch Deli Boys. You gotta try it. Yeah, I want to. It's such a unique tone that they are pulling off beautifully. Nice. It's fantastic. Cool. I love that. You know, I like discovering these hiccups in my thinking. Uh-huh. And so there's a joke in Deli Boys. Mm-hmm. They have to deal with this Italian mob boss quite often. Mm-hmm. And they're Pakistani. And the patriarch of, not even the patriarch, one of the partners in the criminal organization, an older guy, he hates Indians, right?

2:04:37He's constantly talking about how he hates Indians. And so he's sitting across from this Italian mobster and he says, Pakistani, but I'm telling the truth. Indians are terrible. And the Italian goes, oh, I thought you were Indian. And he goes, no, I'm not. They are our mortal enemy. And then the Italian mobster goes, so you guys look identical to each other and you hate one another? And he goes, oh, Cookie just got canceled. Then they all laugh the notion of a mobster could get canceled. Oh, that's funny. But then I was like, I think people do go. How do these two people hate each other so much?

2:05:19They're clearly related. And then I was like, yeah, I would never think that about the Irish and the English. Exactly. The French and the English. Yeah. And then I wondered if people in India are looking at those people going like, wait, you guys are the same people. Why are you fighting? I wonder if it's like whatever in-group you're in, it seems crazy on the outside. It's always about land and religion often. Religion. But yeah, who owns what? I mean, that's very timely because India and Pakistan were. Well, this was obviously made before they now launch missiles at each other. But they're in a ceasefire.

2:05:55Yeah. But anyway. OK, Seth MacFarlane and Nick, that conversation, that's on the SAG-AFTRA Foundation YouTube. Yeah. So you can watch that there if you're interested in animation. Pretty unique conversation. Okay. The seasons of Seth MacFarlane shows, how many? Family Guy, 23 seasons. American Dad, 19 seasons. Cleveland Show, four seasons. 46. Wow. 46 seasons of television. That's really it. That's all the facts. Yeah. Well, Nick Kroll, we love you. Well, there was one more. for your speedy recovery.

2:06:39He's going to be sick for another 10 years or so. Yeah. Like six, six more years he's got of being sick. We're not sick anymore. Well, you kind of are. You're still kind of sick. Probably more sick than I was pre-kids in general. Yeah. But like they just stop putting their fingers in each other's mouths and butts. And like they just, they get a little more separated as they get older. Speaking of kids. Yeah. I wasn't sure if I was going to bring this up, but why not? Yeah, why not? I said I was racist, you know. Well, no, this isn't negative towards kids. Right. I'm just saying I revealed a lot that I had some vestigial racial thinking that I caught myself.

2:07:23Sure, yeah. Mother's Day, we just had Mother's Day, right? Yeah. It's getting increasingly harder for me. Okay. And I think for like so many reasons, I feel overwhelming. Yeah. And I'm just tracking that. Mm-hmm. That it's starting to feel really tough. I'm glad I go home. I go home. I've gone home the last couple of years. And it's nice to be with my mom. And I know it makes them very happy. So I like doing that. But there is something about being there that's hard when I'm there, especially for moments, events, yearly events, the past like time starts to feel very oppressive. passage of time.

2:08:20You know, we go to the same places and, you know, I'm going to this like mall that I went to when I was in high school and to see it be so much the same and also so different. It's just, it feels, it feels sad. It feels melancholic. Right. And, and then seeing my parents' age is so hard. The lack of permanence to everything. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I can kind It's the kind of Buddhism. I know. And when I'm not there, I can detach from it when I'm here. And you can keep it time locked in your mind and memory. Yes. And I think I can just compartmentalize. Like they're there and that's happening. But I'm not seeing day to day like the little things that are changing.

2:09:10So it's kind of hard to be there, even though I'm glad I make that decision. That's a little hard. And then I also know being here would be hard because all of my friends have kids. Yeah. And that is painful in its own way. And like, it just feels sort of like this day is hard. Is it painful because you feel like you're missing out on the mothering experience? Or is it painful because you feel excluded from your friends in a way? I. Which pain is it? I think it's both. I think it's, it's so tricky because it's not like on a day to day, I think of the pain of not having children, but on that day, I am a way I'm just very aware that I don't.

2:09:58Yeah. And that it's not, it wasn't really a choice. It's just the way my life went. Right. Unfolded. Yeah. It unfolded in this way. I made decisions that took me in certain places. I, you know, I'm not married to my high school sweetheart. I didn't have one, you know, and yeah, I'm just like aware, like, oh, my life hasn't gone, didn't go that way. Right. And yes, I can still make decisions that might lead to that, but it's different. It's like really different now. Me having a kid now is a real choice. It is not like, oh, I fell in love with this person and then maybe we'll have kids. That's the next step.

2:10:44It's I have to make. Oops, I'm pregnant. What do we do? Fuck it. Let's do it. It's real, real hard decision making. Yeah. It kind of I don't. Yeah. And that's that's an annoying thing to have to think about. Yeah. So, yeah, I guess. Did it push you closer or further? I don't know. Like it, it, it, it, it makes me feel, feel like, oh, I wish I had that. But does it make me feel like I'm going to take those steps to do it? If I were you, I would just want to be crystal clear if it is a desire to have the experience versus the A student in you. I know. That's hard to know which is driving it. But I think one is worth chasing and one is worth overcoming.

2:11:35Yeah, I know. I don't know. Again, that's a question that I have to ask, that I'm kind of resentful that I have to ask. Resentful towards life, I guess, because I know that if I was married and in a partnership, I would have kids. Right. I would want that. Yeah. What does a guy in your situation do? Like, what is this 37-year-old guy who can't go get a donor? Well, they could. I mean, yeah, they could. And then they got to get a surrogate. And it's definitely more complicated. You're like you're a stop at a sperm bank away from having a kid. Well, maybe. Well, maybe because of fertility. But, you know, like a dude who's not loaded and can't pay for a surrogate and egg and all that stuff.

2:12:28I wonder what how they wrestle with it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I assume it's the same feeling and the same thing. Like, I guess I have to figure out if I'm going to, like, just be with a person I don't want to be with or or take those steps in some ways. I mean, it's it's all hard. But I think for a man, if they have the means, I mean, a lot of women don't have the means to do any of this either. How much is a sperm donor? That's not terribly expensive. But to your egg, like, you know, do retrievals and it's expensive. But let's just say you. You have to remove the eggs in order to make the embryo.

2:13:11Oh, they can't put a baster in you and do it? Oh, they can try it. Yeah, some people, that works for some people. It's pretty hard for it to take, but it works for some people. But then if that doesn't work, you spent money doing that and then you have to, you know, it's a lot. But for a man, they can make the embryo, you know, they'll take the egg, the sperm, they'll make the embryo and then they'll implant it into a surrogate. Yeah, I imagine that's a pricey endeavor. I'm sure. Fertility is so expensive. Another thing that's like, that's a cost that it wouldn't be a cost. I mean, having kids is an insane cost in general, but.

2:13:47To your mental health. Yeah, diapers, diapers, ding, ding, ding. That came up in Nick Kroll's fact. Diaps. your dipes and they went bankrupt yeah my dipes went bankrupt bad for business um anyway i just thought i would share it because i'm sure it's complicated for a lot of people surely mother's day for so many reasons carrie sent me this incredible post that a girl at our high school had put on facebook and um she was a grade younger than us i believe i didn't like of course i didn't recognize her right away, but it was this really heartfelt, beautiful post about the complicated nature of Mother's Day and how she basically had to say goodbye to her mom at 16 because the mom moved to Arizona and the mom was not healthy mom.

2:14:34And so this girl was living, going to my school, living on her own, paying for an apartment. She sent it to me because she goes, side note, that's fun. I was once in detention and Dax Shepard said to me, what'd they put you in for? Oh, that's funny. And then went on to say, don't worry about all this. Your life's really going to start in two minutes. And I know mine's not ending here in this. Oh, wow. So she claimed whether I said that or not, who knows, maybe in her mind I said that. But I'm delighted that on that detention, we had, you know, like a fun interaction. Yeah. But it was just a really sweet post and a reminder of like, man, some kids like the experience can be so radical.

2:15:18Carrie sent it to me going, I'm such a fucking asshole for bitching about my two loving parents. You know, whatever. Yeah. But life is hard. But yeah, there's kids in your high school that are like, they're supporting themselves and living in an apartment. Yeah. And they don't have any parents. Yeah. Yeah. It's bad. Okay. Anyway. Well, that's it. All right. Love you. Love you. Love you. Love you. Love you. Love you. Love you. Love you. Thank you.