Grant Achatz (award-winning chef)

27:22It's like a guy comes door to door. So it was a life event. Whatever the food was, it was phenomenal. I love things I hate, like oysters and pearls. I don't like any of those things. I was just eating things all the time. I'm like, no, I know I don't like this. This place immediately built this truss where I was trying things I don't like. And everything was fantastic. It's on par with going to Disneyland. Like, you should do it in your life. It's an experience. It's like a real life experience. Right. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance.

27:57Not checking what the warning light means before pulling out of your driveway, you absolutely convinced yourself it was probably just a sensor thing right up until you were standing on the side of the road waiting for a tow. Yeah, checking first is the right move. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. And for fast, reliable help when you need it, add an Allstate roadside plan today. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary. Insurance and roadside assistance plans are subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Insurance provided by Allstate North American Insurance Company, Northbrook, Illinois.

28:30Roadside assistance plans provided by Allstate Motor Club, incorporated an Allstate affiliate.

28:41And the media took that a step further, as with most professions or arts. Any protege always wants to surpass the mentor. Yeah, of course. To impress them, you want to hear like, you did it, man. Right. Yeah, pat on the back. So when I was at the French Laundry, Thomas knew that I was not going to work there forever. And the style of food that I wanted to do was not of his. And so at some point, he was like, hey, there's this restaurant in Spain called El Bui. I feel like it's right in your wheelhouse. So he arranged a stodge there. And after I saw what was happening there, I was like, I have to go do my own thing.

29:26You'd remember this place because Jose Andres also lived there. That's like what woke up his mind as well. It's kind of north of Barcelona, right, on the coast. It's not like in a populated area, right? It's just kind of in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. So, yeah, when you left French Laundry, you were the sous chef, which I didn't even know what this meant. You were the second in charge under Thomas. So when you go there, and I know you hate this word, but other people know it, and I need you to explain it to everyone. Molecular gastronomy. Molecular gastronomy. So I know you don't like it, but what is the theory behind it?

29:57So at some point in the late 90s, it became popular to utilize equipment from other disciplines. The medical industry was a big one. Centrifuges and rotary evaporators. Yeah, how's a rotary evaporator work? I hear you talk about this a lot. So you have a liquid or a puree that you pull under a vacuum. So now you're able to boil that liquid at a very low temperature. Okay. So you're not having all of the aromas blow off and stuff like that. That makes so much sense. So it boils, it condensates, and then what drips is the essence of whatever you had in it. So you've like extracted the essence without destroying it with heat.

30:44Right. Whoa. That's so fascinating, right? Because this is applying what we know about water boiling at different temperatures at different ATMs, right? Like at elevation, it boils at 209 or whatever the hell it is. So if there's not one ATM, then it boils low heat. That's genius. I remember my first time being in Aspen trying to boil eggs. And I'm doing it in front of my business partner, whom I had only known like a month. Okay. His whole family was there. And he's like, chef, why don't you make us some breakfast? I'm like, no problem. And it was a big problem. Oh, no. Oh, no. So embarrassing.

31:23He didn't even hard-boiling it. That's funny. Yeah, so there was that. So at that restaurant, I guess the other thing I learned researching you is that what it really also broke open for you is that, oh, the sky's the limit. We're not locked into French. We're not locked in. Like, this journey of what food could be, we're not nearly at the end of it. No. In fact, the opposite. It was like, if you didn't explore this, you would be doing the industry a disservice. Because I felt like, for the first time, there was full permission to express yourself or push outside of the box. Invent stuff. Yeah.

32:05And so then it was game on. Once I came home from there, shortly after I left, the French Army to run a kitchen in Evanston. Oh, this was Trio. Yeah, no budget. We were paying the chefs$20 ,000 a year. Wow. This was 2001. Wow. Did they get tipped out by the house? Is there any other? That's it. That was it. Fuck that. I know, it was bad. There was five or six of us in there. We were the rugrats. You know, we had nothing. But that really pushed creativity. Yeah, because you got credited, rightly so, for really elevating Trio and putting it in a standing it wasn't in. This was interesting to me.

32:50Of course, I know the Michelin star thing, which is already ironic because it's a tire company. But I didn't realize mobile stars were also a thing. I don't know if they still are, are they? They're the same for hotels. For hotels. Yeah. So mobile gas station, Monica. Oh, my God. Why did we create some sort of stars? It is unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah, so you got like five mobile stars, some amount of mobile stars. Yeah, lots of mobile stars. Couldn't get the Chevron star or the Shell star. Right, no Shells. What's the highest amount of stars for that? Five. Okay. So, yeah, we were moving. And then 9-11 happened three months after I was there.

33:28So we were doing all this flashy food, taking big swings. and it was working, but then the whole country just pulled way back. And I remember I was just a chef. I had no ownership in this at all. And I went to the owner. I'm like, look, I understand. If you want meatloaf and mashed potatoes, then that's what we'll do. This is your business. And I'll never forget. He goes, no, I believe in your vision. This is why I hired you. Instead of comfort, we're going to put people's mind on another planet so they don't have to think about anything that's happening right now. Yeah, escape. It was a dream.

34:10You open Alinea in 2005. Yep. It's pretty instantly a hit. Yeah. So the New York Times came in on night one. Oh, gosh. Oh, boy. And first of all, at that time, the New York Times didn't leave Manhattan or the boroughs. So it was a massive deal. And it was night one, which is not fair. Yeah. But like they say, I don't know, any press is good press. Yeah, yeah. So after that, it was just straight up. The momentum was unbelievable. I was proven in the Chicago market. Yeah. So that helped. In my pedigree, French laundry really helped. But when we first opened, Steppenwolf Theater was right across the street.

34:59And me and my business partner were like, well, we have to have a pre-theater menu. Because what if we don't have any people? And we eliminated that right away. Everybody came in. We had three menu options. Everybody wanted the biggest one. And so we were off to the races. Okay, so some of the things that are, maybe they were unique or not, but they're defining characteristics. So the building has no signage. Yep. You walk in, there's no lobby. There's no bar. What informed these decisions? Were they random or did you have an overarching theory on why that was? No bar, like there's no alcohol served there?

35:33There's no spirits. So wine and beer. Got it. I wanted it to be a temple of food. No distractions. And none of the other stuff. So it was all about purity of the experience with food in mind. And spirits were not something that went well with food at that time, at least. And I just wanted it to be a gastronomic palace. So everything else was noise. Get it out of here. And it works. Yeah, so for people who haven't seen any of these dishes, yeah, you're using liquid nitrogen. You're making mousse crispy. You're doing wild, crazy stuff. It's all prefix. You have people sit down. That's it. Nobody chooses.

36:19So you knew what you wanted to do with the menu, obviously. That would be very intuitive for you. What were you thinking about what you wanted the other elements to be, like the service aspect? Did you have a novel idea about that, or did you have environment? What did you want for that stuff? The entryway was very special. It was a very long hallway with a false perspective and a hidden door that was triggered by a sensor. So it was a little bit like a funhouse. Yeah. And the reason for that was there was no Uber then. So, like, you had a yellow cab or you had to drive yourself from the suburbs or something.

36:56And I wanted to eliminate all of that before you sat down. Like you've entered a magical place, kind of. Yeah. And you're disoriented and you forgot about your babysitter and your sick kid at home and you're ours now. Uh-huh. And the overall aesthetic with the restaurant was very minimalist. I would say that we were one of the first fine dining restaurants to not use a tablecloth. We were trying to challenge everything. At one point, I asked the architect if there was a way for us to not have tables. Oh, my God. That is how much we were willing to. Every aspect of what a restaurant was, we identified it and challenged it.

37:42We have tables. You've just given me an idea of having a restaurant that's Lazy Boys and then dinner trays, like TV dinner trays. That's how I eat every night. Yeah. Just as you can't be me. How do you handle service? Is that something you micromanage or do you bring in someone that you believe in their approach? I'm super hands-on. Okay. Even now. If I'm in Chicago, I'm in one of my restaurants five days a week for sure. A lot of that I probably shouldn't do anymore. Yeah. I should be spending my time on other stuff, but I love it. And when the cats away, the mice play. It's just a fact. Yeah, it's true.

38:20And so I like to be there to make sure everything's moving. Had you accumulated grievances? Because I imagine if I opened a restaurant, the first thing would be like, I would X out all the things that annoy me about a restaurant. Is that kind of what you were doing as well? Yes, a bit, for the table. I hate it when you would put your hand on the edge of the table to stand up and the whole table wobbles. So I'm like, why do they have tablecloths? Well, they're hiding a bad table. Let's have a nice table. So it was a lot of that. Yeah. Very meticulous. Or nothing will ruin your meal more than when it's just uneven.

38:54I'll get under there with fucking sugar packets. I'm always manipulating it. Are you impossible to go to a restaurant with? No. The opposite. I mean, now I have a whole different set of challenges because of what I have going on up here. But no, I'm pretty sure. My best friend works in service and has a whole business. He has a whole business on service. And it is nearly impossible to go to a restaurant with him. And I've had to tell him, like, you got to turn it off. Like, I can't do this anymore. I kind of get it, though. Like, when I'm watching a movie and they take a shortcut or they fucking lied about the logic, I'm like, oh, fuck you.

39:32You know, like, it irks me just because I know the math. Right. I know. You got to keep it to yourself. So by 07, you've gotten your own mobile five star there. They're starting to rank in like the best restaurant in America, the best restaurant in the world. That's all taking off. I do notice you have a marriage that ends in 06. Yep. Is it possible to start a restaurant of that caliber and be spending the time nurturing all the other relationships? No. I mean, let's be honest. Yeah. When we opened, I would get there at 9 a.m. and leave at 4 in the morning. I mean, it was insane. Yeah, good luck.

40:12Jordan Conn, who has Vesper team here, he was on the opening team. And Dave Barron, who has Celine and Santa Monica, was there too. And that team, pretty stuffy, who you had on. We were burning hours. It didn't matter. You loved that. You know, it was like we had a mission. Yeah. And then when you realize that you're accomplishing that mission, then you work harder. You know, so now we're in there all the time. At that point, we were open five days a week, but it didn't matter. We were there on Monday, Tuesday. It was infectious. Yeah. Well, the work becomes your identity. Nothing else is happening in your life.

40:51So it's your singular identity. And you're crushing. You're getting all the accolades. People love it. So it's like you finally have an identity, which is the hottest shit in the world. Yeah. It's intoxicating. Very much so. So in 07, you get diagnosed with stage four tongue cancer. Mm-hmm. And I want to know, prior to the diagnosis, were you experiencing anything that was cluing you in that this diagnosis was coming, that you were ignoring? I didn't know what it was. I definitely knew something was wrong. But I was so committed. Yeah. That I didn't even want to go to the doctor. I was like, no, I have to work today.

41:28But was it fatigue you were feeling? No, it almost felt like you bit your tongue. Oh, uh-huh. And it would be like sore. Tender. Yeah, you know, hot coffee. I had that for probably three or four years. Years. Yeah. And I was going to the dentist, and they'd be like, ah, you just had your second kid, you opened your business. Right, stress. Yeah. So they missed it seven or eight times. Oh, boy. And at the time you were diagnosed, almost three-quarters of your tongue had this tumor in it? Yeah, it was bad. I literally couldn't talk, couldn't eat. Fuck! And the first suggested treatment was what?

42:08They wanted to remove the whole tongue. And then both sides of my neck. It had metastasized. It was in your lymph nodes. Yeah. So they wanted to do, like, major dissection. Wow. I mean, bad, bad surgeries. Yeah, you wouldn't have... Nothing. The whole thing I couldn't even process. Of course, there's stuff that I can't taste, right? Exactly. That's a sick joke. But also the business owner that now I have to figure out how to communicate with everyone. What am I doing? Your staff's got to learn sign language. People left because they thought I was going to die, you know? Oh, God. Yeah, that was a bizarre time.

42:46So you did six months of radiation like every single day? Yeah. How quickly did it start working? We went to five major hospitals. They all said the same thing. And I'm like, now what? Maybe I should just die. And I had my sons, and I was like, no, we're going to fight this. And it just so happened that University of Chicago in my backyard was like, hey, we have this new thing. It's a trial, but we feel confident. And I'm like, where do I sign? Yeah. So I started T-Mobile first. That really didn't bother me. I lost all my hair and got pimply and all that, but it didn't affect my taste and it didn't affect my energy.

43:34About three months in, they started radiation, and that was a different story. That is intense. They're microwaving your tongue. Yeah, well, from my collarbone to my nose. And so at one point, the skin on the inside of your throat and your tongue would shed. Oh, my God. Like a snake. No swallowing, no taste, no nothing. Oh, my gosh. But it went to work. That sounds torturous. You had three months of that feeling. Yeah. And then afterwards, it hangs on. Yeah. I thought this was interesting. I didn't know how this works. It makes total sense. But I heard you explain, like, your job as the chef is to educate the people under you on basically your palate, right?

44:22So like the underlings are going, chef, taste this. And you're going, great, but add a little bit of this. Like they're learning how to know your. To be you. A hundred percent. So luckily you had enough people that had fully understood. In L.A. we'd go like, they know how to write for you, right? They know your voice. And so you were able to rely on them to taste. But were you panicked at all? I mean, you have to be a control freak. So that's a lot to turn over. Yeah. I wasn't panicked. My experience with the whole thing was very bizarre. I never fully thought that I was going to die. And my comfort, my family was the restaurant.

45:01Yeah. So I was going to work every day. I thought that I could communicate with the top three chefs and be like, hey, I want this acidic like a pickle, and I want it sweet like X, like very clean ice cream. And we would build it that way. Yeah, this probably pushed your communication skills forward in a way that maybe otherwise you wouldn't have been forced to develop. And let you relinquish some control. That's a hard thing to do. So that, yeah, I mean. You have to be forced sometimes. At that point, it was all about me. And after that, I was like, okay, yeah, I have to have other people. I can't do it by myself.

45:46Yeah, almost forced your hand. Sometimes you look back on these trials and they're gifts in disguise. They all are. Yeah, yeah. For sure. You cannot think that at 32. I felt pretty invincible at that age. And then when that diagnosis hit, I was like, what the hell is this? Yeah. I just mean the notion when you're in it that you're going to go, oh, I better look back on this and be grateful for this. This is like almost an impossible perspective to have in the moment. But now for sure it made me a better shot. Yeah. Life would just be really easy, though, if you really could embrace that. I know, but that's part of it.

46:19All the shit's hitting the fan. Somehow. Can't wait to ungrateful. Yeah. I can't wait to reflect on this. That was this great moment where I had to learn and grow. So you guys got three Michelin stars between 2011 to 2024. So you have real longevity in this, which is impressive. When you decide to close and revamp the place in 16 and readdress the menu, kind of start all over. Yeah. What prompts that? Is that scary? That seems like a big decision. It was. You know, at that point when we were 10 years old, I said the ethos of the restaurant was evolution. And that meant not only the food, but the container.

47:01If we were renovating the restaurant, we had to keep everybody employed. There's a hundred people. Yeah. Because we wanted them all back, obviously. Yeah, yeah, you didn't want to lose them. So we had to find a revenue stream, and we did a pop-up in Madrid. I was there while all of that renovation was happening. So before we left, I knew what we were about to do. I helped design it and signed off on everything. But I was away, and this was my baby. This is terrifying, yeah. So that entryway and the staircase I designed, and that was really personal. Yeah. And when I walked back in, I went, huh, this isn't an idea.

47:46Oh, no. Yeah. Oh. It was tough. Oh. Because we went the opposite of where we were, which was, like, really minimalist, really a lot of industrial materials, like, really modern, to a Parisian roadhouse in the 30s. Ornate ceilings and all that stuff. And it just didn't feel me. Wow, so what did you do at that moment? Learn how to deal with it. Yeah. I'm sure we'll either pick it up and move it soon or renovate it. Okay. So you still feel that? Yeah. Wow. It never grew on you in the way. How do the diners feel about it? I mean, everybody likes a fresh look. Yeah. Rob, you were there post-renovation, yeah?

48:39Yeah. And what did you think of the decor? It wasn't my favorite. Oh, okay. Uh-oh. I bet I would love it. It sounds like me. I think I would, too. Yeah. I wonder if he would have confidence to say that if I was upset I didn't like it. Oh, he definitely would not have said it. Absolutely not. No, of course not. No, no. Of course not. I wish I could have gone in all, like, the first in a row. That would have been cool. Did you have the impulse to go, like, no, we got to redo this? I mean, that would have been impossible. It would have been impossible. Which is good because maybe at some point in your life you would have.

49:15Right. Maybe you learned some acceptance over that period. I buried it. Yeah. Okay, so I want to know, like, when we talk to musicians about how they come up with songs, there's, like, some pretty common patterns that people, you know, People are in the car, they're in the shower. There's these areas where you're just distracted enough that comes. So I'm curious, how do dishes come to you? I would say primarily three ways. Education. I don't have a moose sitting on my bedside table, wake up in the middle of the night and write an idea down. That doesn't happen. Two pickles, three carrots. Turmeric.

49:51So there's a lot of study, actually. What other chefs are doing now, what they did 100 years ago, Are there forgotten dishes that we can resurrect or spin off? So there's that. Is some of that research, though, just traveling and eating a lot of food? Traveling, yeah. So that would appeal to me, yeah. Yeah. There is the unexplainable impulses that come in, whether it is music or a painting, where recently I started with a Paravaggio aesthetic in mind. Oh. really broke really and i was trying to replicate that on the plate and it went very far from there to like a mandrian aesthetic of geometria so like it's wildly unpredictable when we first opened i was into rage against the machine and there was a track that they had that i mean you know their music.

50:52It's intense. But there was an area in a track that broke really hard, really abrupt. And in my head, in that second, I was like, how can I do that with the menu? The progression of food. So it's that sort of, everything goes through a food filter. I asked myself, can I spin off of that shape or this, this and that? The other thing is ingredients. I I pick up a tomato and I smell it and my head goes somewhere. Wow. Yeah. It's almost like synesthesia. Do you love going to, like, markets in Italy and stuff like that? Doing it around the stuff. You have to touch it. It is so visceral. And then once you're in Japan or anywhere else, Mexico, washing them, what they do in their traditional food is wildly inspirational.

51:48And does some of it come from just you're preparing something and you just get some weird inkling to incorporate another ingredient or something that spins off into its own? Yeah. I mean, one example would be truffles and banana. Oh, sure. I don't know. Yeah, that's a weird pairing. And then when you look into it, there are aromatic components that they both have that connect them. But I didn't know that. Ooh, this wasn't even one of my questions, but now I'm thinking about it. Do you think that AI at some point will be able to analyze all these things that are patterns that emerge that we're not seeing, that everyone loves?

52:26Yeah. I use AI a lot. Oh, you do? How will you use it? Mostly research. When I was interviewed in 2002 and the writer asked me what my favorite kitchen tool was. And I said, Google. Google? because everything's right there. And that's what the inspiration, the information. I know how to cook. Right. So once I have that little nugget of something, then we can... What's like your weeknight dinner? 20 minutes. Eating for me is very complicated. Yeah, you probably have a really hard relationship with it. The irony of it all is there's a lot. So I go through that period where, first of all, I'm diagnosed.

53:10and I'm like, this is insane. Is this a joke? Yeah, yeah. And then you go through treatment and you're unable to taste, but then that comes back and you're like, I'm good. The issue then becomes the atrophy from the radiation. The long-term effects of it. Everything stiffens. I mean, you can see everything. It's really tight. So there's a muscle or there's a flap that when you drink or eat, it folds over and covers your windpipe. Right. So you don't ask for it. Mine doesn't fold down. Oh. So it's very, very hard to swallow. Oh, wow. And then about seven years ago, because of the radiation as well, my gums recede and I got a really bad infection.

54:01My whole face swallows. Oh, no. So they had to pull all of these bottom teeth. Oh, wow. So now here we are again. As a chef, I'm not able to eat. Yeah. Really. With that comes this social stigma where I'm like, not only if I go out with friends, I have to really be careful and navigate that, which is a little bit awkward, but also I'm me. So if I go to a restaurant that is of a certain level, they know who I am. Yes, definitely. And what the chefs want to do when other chefs come in, they want to feed them the whole menu. Yeah, if I were you, I'd only eat at McDonald's. It would be too much pressure.

54:48My relationship with it now is complex. Yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

55:06Now, I have the type of brain, I know Monica has it too. I would have, in 2007, thought, yeah, of course, because I didn't deserve this success of this restaurant. I don't really deserve it. And now this is the universe's right side. Do you have any of those terrible thoughts where it's like, oh, of course this is happening. No. Oh, that's good. That's good. I didn't have that. But what I did have really bad was after treatment, the restaurant won a lot of awards. Yeah, yeah. And in the back of my mind, it was always like, I'm getting sympathy votes. Oh. You thought that. That bothered me a lot.

55:44Yeah. For years. Interesting. I was like, oh, they feel bad. Yeah. I mean, that's definitely not what happened, but yeah. I hate being pitied. Yeah. It's like my most. Right. Yeah, I hate it. We're only a favor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do want to ask really quick a couple technical things because I think it'd be fun to educate all of us a little bit on this. When I think of taste, like if you ask a civilian what is taste, you're just thinking like what the flavor is on your tongue. And then maybe you know, oh, a lot of that's coming from your nose. But tell me about aroma and texture because I don't even think that's something people realize are impacting what they, quote, taste.

56:22Right. I mean, aromas, that is taste. So you have the five basic on your tongue, and those are like blunt instruments. There's no pinpoint there. No scalpel in there. Yeah. And everything else is right here. That's why when you smell a glass of wine and you smell chocolate, there's no chocolate in there. Yeah. Right? But you taste it, you perceive it. So that is wildly important. And it became really important when I couldn't taste. Yeah. I mean, I would build dishes solely on how they smell together. So you could smell. Yeah. Okay. That never went away. That's good. That's a blessing. In texture, people don't realize how complex the body is.

57:07Like certain textures will produce saliva. And then that saliva mixes with whatever you have in your mouth. And it hits different areas of your palate. And the body's a crazy thing. So fascinating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So all of that ties in, and it really is not something that people pay attention to. Right. You get all of it at once, and it's hard for you to parse out which thing you're enjoying. Right. But it's biology, really. Is there another thing missing? I guess the environment, too. So that's what I think. We've always been pretty theatrical with our stuff. Some pageantry. And so I really look at color and light and sound and all aspects of the environment.

57:50Smell, we really play with that. Is there any music? If it makes sense and it's curated. We did a course at one point where everybody was served in the room at the same time. It was ridiculously crunchy. So we passed out a card and on the card it said, quiet. Okay. So the whole room just goes quiet. Self-conscious. Yeah, and then everybody at the same time starts chewing on these, like, Cheetos or whatever. And the whole room is like... Oh, my gosh, like a chorus. Yeah. Oh, wow. Was it your restaurant that did something, too, like something outrageously hot, too? Everyone had to eat something really hot?

58:31No. No. We play with temperature. Hot and cold in your mouth at the same time. Oh, I meant, like... Spicy. Capsaicin. Capsaicin. We remove the spliciness from it with a very evaporator. So none of that capsium comes up in the distillate. So chilies smell amazing. I personally can't do hot. Can't fuck with them, yeah. But the smell is amazing. I wouldn't, again, I don't really think of this, but food, you think in seasons, right? So we're going to have morels in the spring. So you just know, like, we have to do something with morels. In the summertime, we're going to have different fruits. Tomatoes.

59:10Tomatoes. Yeah. And so because you have to be ahead of the game, right, you can't wait till the morels arrive, right? I can imagine your existence has been very, very compartmentalized by seasons in a way that other people's probably aren't. Can you, like, feel that? And what has that done for your experience of life to be so aware of what's happening seasonally? I think it could make you feel like time is passing way too fast. Or I could imagine, too, since you're in it so presently, maybe it slows time down. I don't know what it does. I think it speeds it up. And like you were saying, if it's December or even February, and you're like, hey, we have to have a morale dish.

59:50So we have to start planning it. What did we do last year? How do we manipulate it? It has to be different. It can't be the same dish. And you don't have them, right? Right. They have to be new. Yeah, it's its own challenge. So it's like a movie or a book where you have a deadline. And that self-imposed pressure or nature's pressure, it templates your whole year. And as far as perception, it's like I was always a big outdoors person in Michigan. We did a lot of hunting, you know. So the seasons really resonate with me. Yeah. They're very important. When you smell those oak leaves or that first snow, the feeling of it, quiet.

1:00:34I always think of fall when it's fall. You're going back to school. There's new girls. You have new clothes. You go to like a Halloween party. It's dark early. To me, like a lot of people think spring is romantic. To me, fall is like the most romantic. My favorite. My favorite. I feel like that's probably a Midwest thing. Yeah. Because of that. That leaves change, that whole thing. Yeah, and then come like end of May, you're like, oh, it's time to fucking party. I also think we have a very bipolar existence up in Michigan, right? Where it's just like, it was miserable. Miserable. You see it. It gets to 39 degrees and the sun's out in April and dudes are in convertibles with no shirts.

1:01:13It's like we're just fucking dying to come out of this gray hell. So I just think it's really heightened, just overall temperament. I believe that. Now, the restaurant culture, I talk about it all the time. My girlfriend of nine years in my 20s, she worked at a bunch of different restaurants. They all party fucking hard. Their hours are crazy. They sleep in. Stress, yeah. It's a culture. Yeah. How did you navigate that culture? Pretty good. That was another thing with Thomas. His professionalism was paramount. It was paramount. I had a rule that I wasn't friends with my employees. Sometimes that didn't work out.

1:01:51Some people are just too attractive. Right. That too, yeah. But I was too busy working the party. The priority wasn't that. And like I said, I had never drank heavily up until a little bit later. So I was focused. But yes, it is rampant in the industry. And I think it's getting a lot better, but it's because of the generation. The generation's not drinking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's always some substances in there, but I think it's getting better. I think the industry selects, though, for people who, A, they're night owls generally, right? Right. They like arousal. They like high stress. They function well in high stress.

1:02:36And they're fast. You're surrounded by it. Yeah. All of the time. Probably a lot of ADHD in that world. Probably. I think you're kind of self-selecting for a lot of qualities that lend themselves to also being an addict to you. Right. Also, if you're dealing with such a high-pressure situation at work, you want to let go. Yeah. You want a release. Yeah. It's very, very there. You know, the thing I used to be really judgmental on that I've done a complete 180 on, and it was with her. It was with Bree, who worked at all these restaurants. And the servers would all, once a week, generally on their day off, they would go eat at a really nice restaurant.

1:03:13Yeah. And we lived in a one-bedroom apartment in Santa Monica. I think our cumulative income was like$18 ,000 a year between the two of us. She was making$10 ,000. I was making$8 ,000. And I'd be like, you just went out and spent$180 on dinner. Like, I could not wrap my head around spending that amount of money on something when we didn't have shit. And I was more like, let's save up for blank this TV. And then I remember there was this whole movement, I don't know, about 10 years ago, where people were getting really critical about millennials. They made fun of them about the avocado toast. Now, after that, I think now there's a lot of great social science that has studied this.

1:03:47And they're like, OK, on your deathbed, what do you remember? Well, people remember experiences on their deathbed. They evaluate their life based on their experiences, not how many inches their TV was. It's not how it works. And so whatever that costs, it's actually a bargain. It's a bargain. And so I've come completely around. And I guess I just want to end this on encouraging people. Do it, man. Save up for a fucking amazing experience at a restaurant because it's so memorable. That trip to French Laundry. Yeah, it was obnoxiously expensive. And I remember it so well. It's like a moment of my life.

1:04:20We had a sweet hop come in. It was an 80-year-old woman, her daughter, and her granddaughter. Aww. And they came down to the kitchen after the meal. And the 80-year-old was like, it's my 80th birthday. I never thought I would have a meal like this. Yeah. It was the most magical thing. She started to cry. Aww. And I got to share it with my daughter and my granddaughter. Yeah. So, like, to your point. Yeah. What should you spend money on? You should spend money on moments with people you love that you'll remember from. That compliment goes way beyond stars. The mobile stars. Yeah, right. So, you know, in that way, it is very, very rewarding.

1:05:05To have that platform to provide people to make those memories. It's rad. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, it's an honor to meet you, man. It really is. Yeah, it's really cool. I can't wait to come into the restaurant. I know it's really hard to get in, but I feel like now I have it in. Well, people may famously remember we tried to shame you guys into giving Rob a reservation over Christmas. And you guys did. And we were so, so grateful. Rob, was it the most memorable night ever? Yeah, it was incredible. Despite the decor? Yeah, Rob, you really stuck your foot down. Can you imagine if you guys just said, yeah, it was okay.

1:05:39Yeah, oh my God. Oh my God. No, he came back really poorly. Oh, that's great. Well, Grant, thank you so much. This has been a blast. Just a quick reminder that as part of our summer break, here's a rerun of one of our favorite fact checks. I'm in an incredibly beautiful new sweater that my friend got me. It looks gorgeous. I just put it on for the first time and I'm truly blown away. The green is really nice. And the fit is really kind of perfect. I know. They know how to do it. And I think I like these cuffs where you have to roll them up. They're too long on their own. They're clearly designed to be rolled.

1:06:14See, look. That's a seven inch, nine inch cuff. It's nice though. Yeah. But you wouldn't wear it like that, right? You're supposed to go. Well, I'm not allowed because I'm short. And they have a rule that if you're short, you have to show a little bit of skin. If you're wearing oversized clothing, you have to show a little bit of skin on your arm. Because you'll get lost in it. I just rode my bicycle. Oh. Yeah. Nice. My first time in biker shorts. How'd it go? Well, I just can't believe I'm a person that owns biker shorts and wears them now. I'm having a hard time. Well, you're 50. So a lot of things have changed.

1:06:48Yeah, but also I think that's something that's best done much younger. Almost the 50 compounds it. First, I never envisioned myself as being someone that would be in those biker shorts. Yeah, sure. But they have a pad built into them. And the seat is very tiny on the road bike. And it hurts your anus. Yeah. I don't want to say it hurts your... It just hurts. Yeah, it hurts. It's uncomfortable. I was like, oh, this is a nice padding. I put them on for the first time. I felt like Penae always talks about, like, eventize your run. I was like, well, these are built for nothing other than riding a bicycle.

1:07:17Sure. And let's do that. And the padding was nice. And I love that there's no fabric flowing anywhere else. I think I went up the hill faster because of them. Probably aerodynamics. I'm not going to adopt the Lycra shirt, though. I decided. I swore a wife beater. So you're back home. I'm back home. I'm very, very, very happy to be back home. I got you a present for your birthday. Do you want to open it? I would love to open it. Let me really take my time here. I'm looking at a beautiful tissue paper with, oh, can I say one thing? This will sound derogatory, but let me preface it by saying I could be in the tourism board for Mexico City.

1:07:57I love it. It's an enchanted, romantic city. Food's dynamite. If you ever go to Havre 77 French restaurant, we went twice. The French onion soups are the best I've ever had in my life. on the second trip on my birthday night, I got two bowls of it to start. Oh, wow. Like when you got two steaks? Yes. And I would tear out a fingernail right now to have it again and share it with you. It was the most incredible. But anyways, the facial tissue and I had a cold. It wasn't ideal. Okay. And where it really hit me was - One ply? Maybe less. I was at a nice hotel, mind you. Yeah, very. We got on the flight.

1:08:34I went into the bathroom and I pulled the tissue out of the mirror that's in the lavatory of the airplane. And the second I touched it, I was like, oh, that's soft. And then I thought, how bad was the tissue where the airplane tissue felt like Puffs Plus with lotion? Oh, my. Just to make it relative. Yeah, because that's one ply. Yeah. I think it was like 0.6 ply. Oh, OK. Anyways, beautiful tissue paper. Yeah. With purple flowers. Really nice. The tissue is from Nikki Kehoe. The present is not. Oh, this is a multi-stage gift. Yeah. Okay, beautiful tissue paper and then a burlap sack. Yeah, also from Nikki Kehoe.

1:09:14That's how they wrap it. Wonderful.

1:09:19Oh, buddy. The stories of Raymond Carver. Will you please be quiet, please? Is this an original? I bought it as a first edition and it is signed. It's signed? Yeah. Did you pay the face value of$8.95? I know. It was on sale, actually, half off. What year was this published? Because we can, I think it's fascinating that a hardcover, beautifully bound book was$8.95. I know. That's true. I know I'm all over the place and a little manic, but I just got to add back to Little Women, which I love. Yeah. As you know, Greta Gerwig's number one super fan now. At the end of that movie, they show them pressing and making her first book.

1:10:07The book, Little Women. Yeah. I don't know if you remember that sequence. I don't know if I remember it. But the amount of time and effort it took to make a book in the 1890s. Yes. Where they're pressing it all. They were cutting it with a saw. They were sewing the binding by hand. And then they were cutting leather out in a pattern and then gluing and putting that in a press. I'm like, it took like a week to make a single volume. They should have been$600. Exactly. Well, that's why they're so rare. And it explains why. I think it was Carnegie who invented the library. There were no libraries.

1:10:42Books were just too expensive. They were like, probably in today's dollars, they probably were hundreds of dollars. Yeah. That amount of manpower. Okay. So this was first published. We think about wealth disparity now. But then in order to even read a book, you had to be a millionaire. there yeah i'll get the number wrong but to put it into perspective like so i guess elon is now worth 400 billion dollars recently although that stock just fell whatever let's just say he hit 400 billion 400 billion of our total gdp and national amount of money isn't even 0.01 percent yeah when rockefeller hit a billion he they say he actually had like 15 cents of every dollar that existed in America.

1:11:28So it was like as bad as it feels now, it was. It was bad, worse. Exponential, order of magnitude, crazier with the first rich people. Yeah, that's true. Okay. So this was 1963. So this book costs$8.95 in 1963. How much do we think that is now? Rob, can you put it in? Well, that's a great, we have that technology. Yeah, we sure do. I added a new, I actually wrote up my resolutions last night. Oh, great. Which I don't know if I've ever written them down. Yeah. I wrote some down too. You did. Did you journal this morning? I did. Congratulations. Every day. I'm proud of you. I had therapy too. And we talked about it and she said I, I could burn them.

1:12:09Yeah. Or shred them or whatever. Um, but can I have her number? No, Oh, she's like, if that's going to allow you to really be able to be honest and truthful with yourself in a way you won't be able to otherwise. And let it out of your body. You know, sometimes her and I talk about like there are things that I talk about with her that I that only only she gets to hear. And she said, you know, it's not just me. You also have you. Yeah. And you have a dialogue with you can have a dialogue with yourself. Yeah. especially via the journal. Yeah. But yes, of course I have to be very honest with myself there.

1:12:53And so if I'm out of fear not doing that, then it's not worth it. So I do, I'm still deciding. We may have talked about this, but, and I had mentioned there was a period I stopped journaling over the last 20 years. And then I had a relapse, obviously. and I didn't even put all this together, but through therapy with Mark, I think what occurred to me was there were things I couldn't write down. Just like you were saying, are you afraid someone's going to find it? And I'm like, no, but in truth, there was a moment, yes, I'd be afraid someone would find it. And I had this weird dedication to never lie to that journal.

1:13:35Right, right. So I just kind of, I didn't, it didn't feel like I was making a decision to stop journaling. It just was like, this is really weird. I've been journaling for 17 years or whatever, and I haven't in a while, but I'm not overthinking it. But of course in reflection, it was like, I couldn't really, yeah, be dishonest to this thing. Yeah. I love this. This is such a thoughtful, wonderful present. I'm glad. It would have cost$89.18. Wow. $89 for a book. That's a lot. It's not enough, though. I wish it was 5 ,000. Okay, this is a fantastic present. Very thoughtful. Thank you so much. You're welcome.

1:14:15Okay, how was therapy? It was good. It's my first therapy of the new year. You know, for a second, I was debating. I was like, maybe I only need to start going, like, as check-ins now. Like, maybe I don't really need to be on this consistent of a schedule. But then today I was like, no, I need to keep up my once every two weeks. Well, look, I've stopped. So I really am in no position to say this. Yeah. But it definitely falls under the umbrella of like, well, it couldn't hurt to go. It does not hurt. And it potentially could hurt to not go. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of the vitamin debate. It's like the scientific community is kind of split down the middle whether vitamins work or not.

1:14:58Yes. But it's like, I don't know, on the chance that they work. Yeah. They're not going to harm you. All right. Someone's going to comment. There are some. Yes, I hear you. There are some bad ones. Oh, I know. And you can have too much of certain things. But just in general, if you're taking the, you know, not above the daily dose of any one thing, it's not going to harm you. Speaking of. Okay. You know how I'm always paranoid about drowning my cells? In too much water? Yeah. Or people in general, like drinking too much water and then drowning their cells. And you. You know, Gundry's new movement is less water.

1:15:28Not shockingly. So him and I are aligned Soulmates That's why he's got those fresh hands He doesn't drink any water No hydration Oh my gosh I'm going to put my hair up real time If you want to see it It looks so good down But go ahead Let's see what happens there Okay If you want to see it Go to YouTube Do you ever do an up And then a braid and back? Yeah Well I did it for When's this out? The 8th I did it for a commercial we were just in together. Oh, yeah, yeah. That comes out yesterday. It came out yesterday. Oh, my God. Our little commercial. Yes, our second commercial of I Hope Many. Yes, exactly.

1:16:12It was so fun. And it's out. It was out yesterday. It's on our Instagrams. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in it, I do have a ponytail with a braid that I love. It's just really hard for me to do on my own. I had a hairstylist that day. Oh, right, right. But I do like it. Maybe a therapist can style your hair on the days you don't want to share. Oh, hair play? I would go every day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd pay for that. Anyway, okay, so drowning cells, everyone laughs at me. They guffaw. Uh-huh. And I met someone who drowned his cells. Oh, tell me. And it was really bad. Tell me more. Okay. Who did you meet?

1:16:53Where'd you meet him in front of 7-Eleven? No, he's a real person I know. No, I'm not going to say, I'm not going to out him. Him or her's name. Right. He's a friend of a friend. This is a sad story. I'm transitioning into a sad story. When I was home. If you were having fun and laughing, stop. Yeah, stop. A big group of friends was meeting. And one, Robbie. Yeah, sweet Robbie from our chain. Yes, from the connections chain. Wasn't there. I was like, where's Robbie? And his wife said, oh, he's at the hospital with. A mutual. Yes, with the unmentionable. No, because he's not underwear. Because that's his name.

1:17:32No, his name is unmentionable. We can't call him untouchable because he's Indian. Oh, he is. Yeah. So now I'm giving a lot of info away. Yeah, it's pretty easy to narrow this down at some point. If you know an Indian in Atlanta who's friends with Robbie. That's true. There is one. There is one. Anyway, this is sad. This is sad. He had a seizure. and I guess he had already had a seizure a year before and was on seizure medication and stuff but when you're the perfect person to tell the story because you have the same condition right exactly and I'm Indian when he went the first time after his seizure they checked his salinity levels and they were so low and he did drink in like really excessive amount of water.

1:18:24Do we know why? And he drowned his cells. Yeah. He got rid of too much salt, but. He drowned his cells. That was the medical? Yep. Oh, okay. Okay. You have a good deal of salt, I think, from your diet. Don't take offense to that. Are you referring to like the potatoes I made or something. No, but you like, you'll have a nice seasoned chicken. Oh, sure. I think you have a good amount of salinity. Yeah, I feel fine about my salinity. Yes. And I don't drink any water, so I'm good there. Do we know why he was drinking so much water? Was he on like an exercise routine? He was on an exercise routine and I'm not sure why.

1:19:03Anyway, so turns out, per usual, I'm right, you can drown yourselves. Per usual. And And unsurprisingly, please look out for that. OK. Yeah. You and Gundry should collab on this. I'm happy to join forces. Also, just if you are having a lot of water, maybe use some electrolytes. Electrolytes. That's right. Keep an eye on your electrolytes. Yeah. The only cases I've ever heard of is like no one's ever died from ecstasy, but people have drank too much water. Exactly. They drown their cells. Yeah. OK. Okay. I wonder if they drown their cells or if when they drink way too much water, it backs up like congenital heart failure, basically, like ends up filling up their body.

1:19:51Because, you know, my father who had congenital heart, I don't know if it's congenital. He had heart disease. And what would regularly happen is his heart was too big on one side and normal on one side. And so it would pump in a lot, but it couldn't pump out a lot. And then it just ends up backing your whole body up with water and you get really bloated. You put on all this water weight and then it starts really affecting your breathing and your lungs and everything else. And so my dad would go into the hospital for like four days and he'd be on diuretics and he'd just be getting rid of gallons of water.

1:20:24Right. Oh, my God. Yeah. Okay. It says, yes, cells can drown in a condition called water intoxication or hyponatremia, which occurs when there's too much water in the body. When there's too much water in the body, sodium levels drop, causing water to move into cells and causing them to swell. This can be especially dangerous for brain cells as it can lead to pressure in the brain, confusion, drowsiness. Wait, though, epilepsy, pressure in the brain might have been completely all related. Exactly. Oh, man. Well, I'm sending love and well wishes to this anonymous person. Untouchable. Why does Robbie have two very close Indian epileptic friends?

1:21:06I know. He's very over-indexed. He is extremely over-indexed. Because I consider myself kind of unique in America, low percentage, where I have a best friend who's Indian and epileptic. And he's got now two? I know. He has a fetish. I know you don't like that word, but. You think it's a king? Ask if there's a third. If there's a third, he has a condition. yeah it is weird then I wondered is like what ethnicity is Robbie's wife white white yeah she doesn't have it actually no no no no no no no no no is he giving everyone this he's poisoning everyone oh my god he's so sweet that would make sense he's one of the sweetest people I've ever Yeah, but he is a dark side.

1:21:56Hi, Robbie. Oh, nasty. So his wife is my oldest best friend. Uh-huh. And when we were in high school, she had seizures. And they were dating at that time. Okay. And she got in this car accident because she had one. Hers were different, though. She had, like, she didn't have grand mal seizures. Were you about to say petite seizures? Petite mal. That's what they're called. That's so cute. And then she had - They're like a mall. You'd walk in, but there's only three stores. And then the food court is like four food carts. They should call it boutique seizures. That's way better. Yeah, that's cute.

1:22:33You and Gundry can work on that. Anyway, yes, he has three. There's a fourth. I mean, I only know of three people in his life and all three of them have seizures. So certainly there's more. Should we get Robbie on the phone? Do you want to? Yeah. We got to grill him about this. I mean, he's definitely at work. On Saturday? Oh, I forgot. During an NFL playoff game? I'm so sorry, Georgia lost, by the way. Oh, no, the Sugar Bowl? You didn't know that? They lost? They lost. To who? Don't say Texas. They didn't lose to Texas, but Texas won theirs. Texas is still in it. Yeah. Notre Dame. But they're still in it because, oh, no.

1:23:15That game we saw was one of our only two losses. They ended up being really good. I know, but they played. Welcome to the SEC, bitch. Is that what you said? Yeah, I did. Hold on. I got to call Robbie. He's the one also that knows about. He's not at work. He's at the hospital. One of his many up. Don't say that. Knock on wood. Hello. Hey, Robbie. Yeah. You're on candid camera. You are on. Arms hair candid. You're on air. I'm on air. And can you hear. Do we have your consent? And can you hear me? Yes. Yes, yes, yes to both, yes. Okay, great. Well, we started, we wanted to call you about one thing, but now we have two things to talk to you about that are very important.

1:23:58And we did not name any names, but I'm just learning of the fact that you have a second Indian friend with epilepsy, which I find to be almost statistically impossible. And then Monty said, it doesn't stop there. His wife has epilepsy. Well, she doesn't have, okay, not specific epilepsy, but you do have three people in your life that have had seizures. and it's now we're starting to worry. And think you're at the - Yeah, I see where you're going. I honestly hadn't ever thought of this. That's what he would say. Monica, my sister too. I knew it! I fucking knew it! Robbie, I said there's a fourth for sure.

1:24:40Fuck! Robbie! What are you doing to everyone? I don't know. I really don't know. Oh my gosh. looking at things in my life. I don't know. This is wild. Do you think it's because you're so calm and sweet all of a sudden the other person's brain feels erratic and unhinged? Is it like relative to your calmness, people short circuit? It could be. I mean, yeah, that's the best. I think that's the best we have to work on right now. My guess is Gino would say otherwise. Agreed. But this is wild. Four, Robbie, four is a lot. Now I mean sincere. So is there something environmental in Duluth where half the population has had seizures?

1:25:26Wait, no, because mine happened once I left. But you grew up with that water. Oh, you think it's the water? Yeah, you have late onset Duluth. Because I didn't drink enough water and then it caught up. I'm not wrong about the logic of that. But what I'm saying is there's something in the soil where you grew up where 70 % of all people have seizures. There's got to be. Monica's house was super close to mine. The other friend also lived like right down the road too. And Gina. Yeah. And so honestly, if you draw like a polygon of the four points, it's like a very small area. And so likely shared whatever water source.

1:26:11Yeah. It's pretty narrow there. You're right. Guys, did we just break an enormous case? Do we need to call? I think so. The New York Times immediately. Fuck. You're going to have to do a new podcast. You're going to start a new podcast where you investigate this issue. Wow. It's going to be called Poison Paradise. Under the veil of suburban beauty and tranquility. Oh, my God. Lies of burbling poison that results in the shutters. That's a lot of words. That's a lot. That's too many words. You need it to be small. No, no. First was the title. And then I was then I was then I was entering into the first episode.

1:26:44Oh, you got going. I mean, you're halfway there. it sounds like. This thing writes itself. Okay, now we have, moving on to point number two. Well, no, I have one follow-up on that, Robbie. Okay. In your free time, which I know you don't have much of, just, can you sniff around and see if any more folks have had seizures? Yeah. Okay. I will. Yeah, I'll report back. Yeah, I'll just, I'll start kind of casually throwing that into each conversation I have. Like, so by the way, you know, this is kind of weird, but do you have a history of epilepsy and just kind of move on from there? Yeah. That sounds like a good plan.

1:27:17That's going to work. Okay, now point number two is football, and you are my main source of information for football. I was texting you during the Texas-Georgia game, and we were secretly gloating while I was amongst a bunch of Texans. And then Dax just told me that then Texas went on to, like, win all the rest of the game. They're still in it, yeah. They're still in it, yeah. So they have a tough matchup against Ohio State because Ohio State looks really good right now. But, yeah, they're still in it. But does that be like a fluke? Shut up. Well, it can't be a fluke because the only team to beat Texas this year is Georgia.

1:27:59Georgia's beat Texas twice this year. Oh, twice. Yeah. But then it's kind of a fluke that we aren't – like it doesn't make sense that we beat them twice and we're now out. Yeah, you know how it's like how can Federer be the best ever if he can't ever beat the dog, you know? It's very similar. We all have our albatrosses. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, all right. Well, that clears that up, I guess. And I just want to end on this. Robbie, your voice was built for radio. You must be involved in Poison Paradise. I'd love to help you. Let me know. I'm a hard worker, too. So, yeah, just let me know what you need.

1:28:39All right. Thanks, Robbie. All right. Thanks, guys. Take it easy. Bye. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

1:28:58That was a great use of time. I wasn't expecting his voice to be that velvety. He's a very handsome man. You know, I only have handsome and beautiful friends. Right. This has started from day one. Good for you. I know. Anywho. Okay, good luck to, will you plug your ears? good luck to UT. Hook them. I'm cutting that. This is the same as that story I told about the people flying to LA to watch the Red Sox play LA hoping the Red Sox would lose because they had just beat New York but the other guy was like no they must win that way New York's number two. Wouldn't you want your team to have twice beat the champions?

1:29:35I guess you're right. I think it's time for you to like transition into rooting for them for your own. For my own gain. Yeah. Okay. I see that logic. Speaking of which, and I know we're all over the map and I've taken up too much time, but I just, I want to, I want to go on to say that I finished the Churchill documentary on the flight home yesterday and I got very swept up in it. This has happened a few times and I'm sure you've watched shows on this. when you were forced to watch what the Brits went through, 57 nights in a row of carpet bombing of London, everyone sleeping in the subway, no bathrooms, getting up, going straight to work and carrying the fuck on.

1:30:19And they were so outgunned and outmanned and out everything. And they alone took on Nazi Germany at that point. Everyone was already defeated. Yeah. The amount of will and resolve is so historic. I found myself like, this is so cheesy. I found myself being like really proud that I know Jethro. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. I was like, by God, that little island, you motherfuckers refused. Yeah. And Churchill, he is a very flawed person. He was horrendous to India. I'll acknowledge that. But truly one man got those people to that state of mind. If you watch this doc, you're like, who knows if that person doesn't exist, what happens?

1:31:12Because he had two burdens. One is to be fighting off these Nazis who are just bombing every single night, trying to keep morale high. And he has got to get America into the war or they're going to die. Everyone's going to die because they're not going to surrender. And so his skill at wooing FDR and developing this relationship and slowly getting us more and more involved is so impressive. And his own story is so unique in that he was a soldier during in his youth and he was an incredible soldier. Then he went into politics and he was a boy wonder because he was right. The whole time he was in the war, he was also a reporter.

1:31:54So he was reporting firsthand from all these wars and he's one of the best writers to ever live. So he was in this crazy unique situation where he leaves the service as a hugely popular figure in Britain, goes into politics, has this meteoric rise and then plateaus and then plummets. And he's completely on the outs and he can't get anything done. And then World War I comes along and he decides in his 40s or 50s to rejoin the army. He becomes a commander. He wins all this glory, returns, and for four years is begging Britain to understand Hitler cannot be trusted and don't believe a thing he's saying and we can't be signing these deals.

1:32:38And no one's listening. No one's listening. He never relents. And finally the Brits realize he has been right the whole time. And overnight he becomes prime minister. Like the story of the up and the down and the out and the miscast in the it's it's what a story. Yeah. Horrible to the Indians. Let's be clear. A colonist grew up in Elizabethan England. Definitely wanted the empire to stay alive. Also, miraculous feat of will and resolve in the poetry with how he motivated people. He gave this speech to our Congress to help us embrace the fact that we were entering the war. And it's like the most incredible speech.

1:33:19Wow. I cannot recommend the doc enough. Wow. I don't know why I went on that tangent, but it's been burning a hole in my brain.

1:33:34I know. I'm making you nervous. My energy level is at 15. I'm home. It's not making me nervous. It's like. Go ahead. No. It's just like, where's it going? Oh, I'm just sharing all the things that I missed out on sharing in the last three weeks. God. You're so much like my father. I am. He just loves to explain stuff. Yeah, it's kind of a male trait. But does that story, like, is there a male-female thing going on? Is this the Roman Empire? Maybe. Like, does that whole chapter just, like, not interest you? Parts do. But not that part. Of an individual story where someone's like completely discarded and publicly reviled, then finds their way back, then becomes so valued and important, then gets discarded again.

1:34:25And then it doesn't quit, like has a calling that can't be ignored and then match with this like Shakespearean ability to write speeches. Yeah. No. No. So I'm more into like the Anne Frank story of that era. Like I don't, I guess I'm really not drawn deeply to people in power. Like I'm not, that's not a thing. You're drawn to the disenfranchised. Yeah. This makes total sense. Well, I just find that way more, as a human story, way more compelling. I find that kind of overcoming, like a true overcoming, much more compelling. Yeah. Than someone who's like just feeding off power. I think the thing that interests me about it is as big as this world is and as complex and dynamic as it is, single individuals radically change the face of the world.

1:35:35Oh, I agree. Yes. I find that fascinating. Those figures, they don't do it for me. Yeah, they don't get you going. I'm kind of like towards them, you know? For the listener, she just kind of, it was an interesting one. It wasn't an eye roll. It was a back and forth, side to side. Speaking of. Go ahead. Eye roll. You found the origin of your. I figured it out. I figured out where my eye roll comes from. We thought it was an Indian thing. or just maybe a genetic innate thing. I thought it was maybe just a full resentment I have of everything and everyone. We didn't know, but I knew that's not right.

1:36:14That's not it. It's a habit, but why? And now I know. Well, you sent it to me, so I saw it. Well, I'm going to show the world. The world, show the world. And I'm going to have to describe for the listener because let's just be, let's be clear. 98 % of our audience is still just listening. Yeah, but check us out on YouTube and you can see this. Yes, please do. All right, so for the listener, It is a two or three year old Mary Kate and or Ashley Olsen from the Full House program. It says duh across the screen. She's shaking her head and she gives the most expressive eye roll you've ever seen. Yes.

1:36:49And she has or they have enormous Disney eyeballs where it's very expressive and clear. Yes. Yes. We got it. We got it. All right. Now, Full House was my original friends. Yeah. I was obsessed with it. The only time I was ever punished for my parents, the punishment was I couldn't watch Full House that night. That's in my cells. Yeah. That's where I got it. I got it from original Mary-Kate and Ashley Full House. You started probably reenacting it. Always. Yeah. Aping it. Yeah. Mimicking. They were my models then and now. Yeah. It might be all the way to the end. I think it is. They might be your Aaron Weekly.

1:37:32I mean, you already have your Aaron Weekly. I think it would be sad if they're my Aaron Weekly because they don't know me. But they are my ride or die. What I'll say is they're radically different people, which is so fascinating. Yeah. I guess that makes sense. But also doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. Well, they're not identical twins. You know that, right? They have to be. Baloney. They're fraternal twins. No. Well, sisters have never looked that much alike. It's crazy. Do we know this for positive? God, don't make me. Okay. I don't think I do. AI Google says that. Thank you. I know.

1:38:12I know. They're not? That's like me saying I know something about Valentino Rossi. Ooh, tell me. What do you know? I know nothing. Yellow 46? Exactly. It's the whole point. I'm impressed you remembered his name. Thank you. So, yeah. Fraternal. One's left-handed, one's right-handed. But that's super common in twins. And one's one inch taller than the other. Even when they're identical. Well, they're fraternal. But that could be a posture thing. Okay, whatever. All right, let's stop. They're fraternal twins. I believe you. You'd never know it by looking at them. Don't judge a book by its cover. You would not.

1:38:47I mean, I agree with you. It's shocking. Yeah. I've met a lot of boy-girl twins, and they have all told me. They have all had the experience where someone asked if their twin was identical, even though they knew one was a boy, one was a girl. What? Yes. I'm telling you. Okay. Well, some people don't understand twins. They don't understand what identical means versus fraternal. Yeah. They must not. It must be way lower percentage that you get a boy and a girl than same gendered twins. For fraternal? For fraternal. I think the opposite. Oh, you do? I feel like if most fraternal twins I know are boy and girl.

1:39:28Oh, really? That's why they are very confusing. We should have a twins expert on. Yes. Because what that means is that there were two ova in the uterus and that one male sperm and one female sperm hit the two. And generally you would think, well, either the males were making it because they swim slower and they're more robust or vice versa. And one swim fast. So it's weird that one would swim fast. But you know what I'm saying? I don't know. The body is a wonderland. It is a wonderland. John Mayer. Yeah. All right, let's do a little bit of facts. This is for Ken Goldberg. He was wonderful. I really, really liked him.

1:40:03Yeah, what a unicorn. A lot. Okay, now this episode starts with your underwear on the floor. Which was interesting. That was shocking. That's an experience to look down in your underwears outside your pants. Because your first thought is my underwear. Yeah. Came off my - Flipped off. Yeah. Yeah. and it doesn't seem to be torn in half. Yeah. That's a real like, where am I at in time and space that my underwear has made itself off of my body and onto the floor. Yeah. I mean, it's so obvious later when you think, well, it's clearly in my pant leg. I know, but in the moment, you can't think straight.

1:40:38My underwear is falling off. It's like in I Think You Should Leave when Robinson, they put a whoopee cushion on his chair and he doesn't understand it. He goes, what happened? Like he really is shook because he didn't feel himself fart, but he heard a fart. What? That happened. Oh, my God. That's so funny. Okay. But also, so that happened, the underwear. But then when I was editing it, the inside out of my pant pocket. Was exposed? Was exposed the whole time. That's a weird coincidence. It is weird. But no one caught that. So the whole episode, the inside of my pant pocket is out. Which people could have thought might be her underwear.

1:41:19Like, you know, it's the lining of your pocket. But other people can be like, why are there why are both of their underwears falling off? Now, the vaccination mark, the smallpox vaccine scar is a small mark you might have on your upper arm. If you receive the Dryvax or ACAM 2000 smallpox vaccines, it's a sign that the vaccine successfully spurred an immune response in your body to protect you against smallpox. Not many people receive a smallpox vaccine today, so the scar is far less common than it used to be. The smallpox vaccine leaves a scar because it causes a minor infection in your skin. Your body fights off the infection, but this process leaves behind a small mark on your skin where the infection and related inflammation took place.

1:42:05That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I assumed wrongly now that it had something to do with the mechanism of injecting it. Right. Did they use some weird thing? Because again, my dad's was, I have such a good memory of my dad's. I don't know that my mom has one weirdly. Yeah. But my dad's is like seared in my brain. And I was like, it looked like, I think I said a cigar, like they administered it with a burning cigar. You can look at pictures online. They have them. And they do look like that. Okay. The book, the scientific management book that was influential on Stalin is called The Principles of Scientific Management by Frederick Taylor.

1:42:39See, this all paid off my diatribe on Churchill because Stalin was the trickiest figure in that triumvirate. OK. Now, so Kim Kardashian posted some pictures with the Optimus robot and then and it said that Elon gave it to her and she denies that she was paid for those pictures. OK. Other than the free robot. Right. That she may or may not have. Right. OK. This is what it says the robot can do, the Tesla Optimus robot. Okay. It says it can do physical labor. It says it can move materials, assemble parts, and load items onto machinery. Okay. Yeah. I'm skeptical of that. I'm skeptical. That's how we do it without getting sued.

1:43:30I'm highly skeptical. This is also on the AI overview. So they, like, they're buddies. Okay. So he's got - They're all in cahoots. Yeah. Inventory management. Optimist can use barcode or RFID scanning to track inventory in real time. Home chores. Optimist can carry groceries, help the elderly, and perform other home tasks. Look, it only helps elderly. I mean, that would be good. Data collection and research. Optimist can be used in labs or remote monitoring environments to collect data. I mean, that's just like the brain. That's a computer. Yeah. Smart home integration. Optimist can link up with Tesla cars and energy systems to become part of a smart home.

1:44:12Optimist can walk among people and serve drinks at a bar. I doubt it, but I'm sorry, I'm skeptical. But have you heard about that? Okay, apparently there's a place in like Culver City or something that is run by, it's like a burger place that is run by robots and the robots drop off your food. Okay, I think I've heard that. But also my assumption of what that was was like very simple mechanized arms, not bipedal robots walking it out. Like it can make it in the kitchen, then it goes on a conveyor belt, and then it exactly lands in front of your thing. It doesn't necessarily mean that a bipedal robot carried it as much as there might be automation that gets it all the way to your.

1:44:49I think it's saying it delivers it to your table, but it might not be bipedal. We should go. We should go. I'd love to go to a robot restaurant. What is it? Cali Express in Pasadena. Oh, it's impassive. That's much closer. Yeah. That just upped the odds of us actually doing that by a lot. I do think there's a little guy that rides around and brings to your food. A little fella? Valley Express by Flippy, the world's first fully autonomous restaurant. Grill and fry stations are automated. It looks like a little thing with serving trays and American flags that goes to your table. We'll have to go.

1:45:25But okay. It says Optimus can perform precise movements and heavy lifting. Optimus can adapt its behavior over time to reach the desired results. Optimus can play games like rock, paper, scissors. Okay. So anyway, that's what AI claims its buddy Optimus can do. Okay. They're best friends. Okay. And our robot feels a little left out. No, he's more boy-like, remember? I know. Big time glass half full. He's wondering what's going on because like there's a lot of other robots now. There are a lot of other robots. But he's like becoming charming and flawed. Wabu Sabi. Wabi Sabi. Wabi Sabi. Robbie Sabi.

1:46:07Robbie Rob Sabi. There was a Prada has these bag chains that I really want that are robots. Bag trash. Is that what it's called? No, it's a bag chain. I'm learning this from Nicole. This is the movement now is like you have these very fancy handbags and then you put all these little trinkets that are on the side. And I think she calls it like bag trash or something. Oh, she might, but they're called bag charms. And look, Prada has this one. This one's in like snow gear. Yeah, that's really cute. Isn't it? Yeah, it's about to be critical. I just think it's funny. Fashion is very funny. Sure. So you get this perfect outrageously expensive bag and then you're supposed to like drape some trash.

1:46:58So obviously downplay it. It's like, what's happening? I agree. But it's not trash. This is$1 ,100. Well, I didn't say it was inexpensive. Oh. Yeah. Well, OK. But I agree. I would not put people love bag terms. And I think that's great. And it's a way to like show your identity. But they're not for me on my bag. But I want this little robot to just like sit in my house. Yeah, yeah. That's great. Yeah. He's pretty big. Look at him compared to the bag. Oh, that's preposterous. He's larger than the bag. You said 39 % of U.S. jobs are still manual labor. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, reported that 39.1 % of civilian workforce in the U.S.

1:47:38performs physically demanding jobs that require lifting, carrying, pushing, pulling, kneeling, stooping, crawling, and climbing activities in varied environmental conditions. Sucking fucking don't leave out sex workers. That's manual labor. Don't we honor sex workers? Yeah, but I'm just wondering, is it really manual? Yeah. It's definitely manual. It's laborious.

1:48:02All right. Well, that's it for Ken. I'm glad we ended on that note for Ken. I think he would appreciate that. All right. Bye, Ken. Love you. Love you.