James Marsden

22:31Well, you have the excuse, though, to have a belated because you put your child's health in front of your own self-celebratory. So it'll both be like a congratulations party and a birthday party. You tell the story about it. You can get on the microphone. As many of you know, we were scheduled to do this back in January. Yes. But I just couldn't do it because I love my child too much. Yes. How affected were you when your parents got divorced at nine? Was that a big one? I don't feel like I held or do hold still a lot of trauma or disappointment or sadness because of that. To the degree where I'm like, should I?

23:08You talk to people who come from split families, that can be really life-changing. And maybe I just haven't come to terms with it yet. That's totally a great answer. It's the most honest. Yes. And you have four siblings? Yeah, I've got two brothers a year and a half apart. Irish triplets. I'm the middle, so I have a second child. You feel like a middle. Yeah, I'm a middle. Middle's good, right? I think. You kind of flow with everything else that's going on. You see how annoying the people older than you and younger than you can be, and you make a mental note like, oh yeah, don't do that. I'm going to adjust.

23:39The older siblings are like the canary in the coal mine. You're watching them take these big swings, and you're like, those don't work. But not only that, it's the parents doing it for the first time. And so they have all of these ideas and standards that they're going to instill on their child, or the child's going to fall over and scuff their elbow, and they're going to freak out that some strange germ is now in their body, and they're going to die. Whereas the more kids you have, the more relaxed you become, the less you care. But my father remarried, had another child, so that's my other sister.

24:09Yeah, two sisters, two brothers. When I was growing up, my brothers, we were so close in age. Were they cool guys? Did they protect you in high school? Yeah, we were pretty close, but I think we were so close in age. There were moments where it almost felt like we were fighting each other for our own identity. Of course. Get away. These are my friends, not your friends. Go make your own friends. We were constantly fighting and shooting each other with BB guns. You know, I'm from Oklahoma. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't like a hostile environment. It was just boys being boys. And my mother kind of going like, don't know what to do.

24:37Now, in my school, there were groups of boys that were brothers. and you were like, don't fucking even talk to the Jacksons because there's four of them and they're violent. We weren't big enough to be formidable. Okay, okay. But we were a little rough around the edges. Sure, scrappy. Who are the Marstons? I know, it sounds like I'm making this up. Monica's like, I don't buy this bullshit. Sounds like the best Christmas pageant ever. Yeah, he wasn't hot. Yeah. Now he's a dirtbag who everyone was afraid of in school. BB guns. Smelled. I kind of felt like we raised ourselves, not saying anything about my parents.

25:09My mom was there most of the time. My father was gone a lot for work. He traveled quite a bit. E. coli doesn't stay in the backyard, my friend. No, no, no. It knows no borders. And he was one of those who had to get out and go chase the E. coli. I remember him being on Donahue. He was on Phil Donahue? On Phil Donahue. Remember, Jack in the Box is going to love me for this. Oh, the big outbreak. It was one of the worst ever. People died in Texas. And he was on the show explaining basically what happened. How did he do? Was he confident? I didn't really watch it. Oh, people talking. I've got an acting career I need to pursue.

25:39Wait, are you a hypochondriac by chance? No. Oh, God. Not really. I'm surprised I would be. Well, I am. But I would be if I grew up in an environment where everyone was talking about E. coline chasing it down. I guess because he knew so much about it, I was actually less scared of it all. That makes total sense. He actually understood it. And he could probably tell you when and when you shouldn't be afraid. Yeah. And he was like, you're fine. I remember I was like, Dad, what's actually in a hot dog? Oh, God. Yeah. Big question. And he goes, well, actually, an all beef hot dog is better for you or cleaner than getting like a turkey dog.

26:13I said, what? How is that? He's like, because in a turkey dog, they roll in cartilage. I don't know if they still do. I was like, oh, OK, OK. So I felt like I had sort of the inside line. You seem to have an inordinate fear of getting sued by. I know. I'm just category. Hypochondriac is fear of getting sick. What's the fear of getting sued? Yeah, lawsuit. What phobia is that? It's pilotages. Nothing against Jack in the Box. Nothing against Oscar Mayer. Well, the best was you didn't even name Oscar Mines, just in general, turkey dogs. I hope the turkey dog coalition doesn't write me a letter. Come back to me.

26:43I think we can say most hot dogs are just cram packed full of everything they couldn't sell in another version. My grandpa used to tell me he's like hot dogs out of Michigan. He told me Michigan had really high hot dog standards and not every state did. Now, that probably doesn't hold up. The Michigan hot dog standards. That's exactly. Which were really high, according to him. Why would that be? Why is it so specific? Michigan. I know they have their own MBA. Is there like a big German colonization there or something? Nothing wrong with the Germans. Well, there's plenty wrong with the Germans, but we love them.

27:16Okay. So you bounce out of school and you come to LA in 93. You land pretty quickly some employment. This boggles me because it's just years for me trying to figure out how does one get on this television set. But you were on the nanny really quick. I got pretty lucky when I announced that I was going to move to LA and try to pursue this because through that family, I met a few people who were in the business. Through Cameron. Yeah. And my father said, I think you're good at this. My mother said the same thing. Give it a shot. You're not going to be going out there without knowing anyone. And my father said, I went to high school with someone who moved to LA and now he's a very successful casting director.

27:50Oh, I wonder if he'll set you up with a proper manager or agent. And he called the guy and I had some really nice headshots done in Oklahoma. The guy was like, well, we'll get some new ones when he gets out here. But decent looking kid. We're going to have them button up just one more button on that. One more button. They can lose the studious eyeglasses. Character shots. Remember? Remember that? Look, I'm holding a gun. Look at me bowling. People don't understand this, right? When you first moved to LA, or if you were just in LA trying to pursue an acting career in the 90s or late 80s, you had to have these head shots showing you in different scenarios.

28:23Well, help people wrap their head around you as all these different occupations. Yes, I should not be pigeonholed. I can play a gangster. This is me in a karate gi. Exactly. stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare

28:46so that person knew someone who was a successful and legitimate manager oh god and the guy sent me out upon arrival like three or four auditions a day oh very very lucky man doesn't happen and And also my family were like, we will financially support you for a year. So you don't have to worry about pulling your own financial side of it, which I should have had to do. But I wasn't waiting tables and doing all of that. I was focusing on making this work. Everything is aligned for success here. As long as I show up. Did you avoid ever having to get a shit job here? When I look at your resume, it seems like you could have cobbled together enough income.

29:17No, I didn't have to do that. That's incredible. You're a unicorn. But lucky. Yeah, it's OK. You don't feel guilty. You just have to admit it. That's all. But I also just kind of lowered my head. You know, when you're younger, too, I feel like you swing for the fences a little harder than you do when you're older because you can see how far you can fall. You're delusional in the best way as well. I maybe auditioned for Enchanted and then you got it. And when I look back now and photos of myself at that time versus you and it was to play a handsome prince who comes to New York, I'm like, of course you are not in running for that.

29:51I have skills. It wasn't that against you. Not a chance. When I look at pictures of me, then I'm like, I can't even believe you went on that audition. You can't play a prince with that nose and that skinny neck and all this stuff. Well, I mean, you're constantly trying to twist yourself, commit yourself. Yes, that's my point is I was blessed with some delusion. I had the same thing. I still do have the same thing. It's just like I can do that. That creates some level of confidence, even if it's completely false confidence. Yeah, it can be built on a house of cards. When I was young, it was borderline overly cocky.

30:24Arrogate. Okay. I'm here, everybody. Stop what you're doing. Yes, gather around. What's that role? I'll take it. But then you did. What's that role? You should give it to me. Jaws is one of my favorite movies of all time. When I read interviews with Spielberg at the time, he was taking chances and doing things you wouldn't normally do if you had more experience. He was like 24 or 20. He was so fucking young. But he talked about that. When you're young, you have a confidence that you try to hold on to. If you're lucky enough to move through a career, but you're also like, oh, shit, now I know how bad I can be or how bad the job can be or how far I can fall.

31:00And so you sort of get a little bit careful. I've gotten more scared over the course of my career. I got more comfortable just being me. But on the other side, it's like there's roles I took then. Like idiocracy, if that came my way, I'd be like, I don't fucking think I can do that. And when you're younger, you're just like, I'm just going to give it my best shot. You have to. You have to take what's there. Absolutely. and I'm going to go to Cinema Secrets and buy a fake nose and I'm going to stick it on myself and I'm going to be Larry from the Three Stooges. But when you get older, you're like, is it okay if I don't go on this?

31:29I don't think I'm the right guy. It's funny how it flips. They don't think you are when you're young. You're like, let me show them. And then people start believing in you. You're like, hold on, don't believe in me too much. I've done that before. I don't think they were guaranteed jobs, but I've said no to things that I think this doesn't feel right. I don't feel like I would cast myself in this or want to see myself in this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is a hard thing to do. And then you feel guilty. In my case, you get superstitious. Like, well, that's the beginning of the end. You have to take every opportunity.

31:53And the second you stop doing that, the ride will be over because you'll have gotten too big for your britches. That encapsulates what it's like to be an actor in this business. And obviously we don't sit here and cry about how difficult it is, but you're like, okay, I finished that job. That's it. I'm done. They're not going to cast me again. They've realized I'm a fraud. I'm done. I certainly felt like I was faking it. I still feel like I'm faking it, to be honest. Well, I think you're really quite good. I think at the beginning I felt jealous of you. There were roles I'd go out for and you would get them and then I was jealous.

32:22So then I was hypercritical of you because I felt insecure and was pretty sure I could have done the thing that I was mad you got. But point is, I've seen you be really fantastic on numerous occasions. As have I you. And I think that that's just the actor's thing. You're just always going to go, fuck, what's that guy getting? Dax is doing this and he's so good at that and wish I could do that. And I can't do that. Fuck him. He's talented. I don't belong here. I'm not worthy of it. This person is. So I hate them. Did you go to an acting school or something? No. Me neither. I went to the groundlings.

32:50That's where I learned to act is on that stage. Way more than I ever did. I was a mimic in high school. I would memorize standup bits and SNL sketches and do them at school. And everyone thought they were kind of funny. So like, oh, maybe I'm good at this. But that was it. You didn't have a craft. No, I didn't go to the fancy school in Chicago with Christopher Walken and John Lithgow. So, but you feel like, oh shit, well, I'm just kind of faking it. But you do learn it along the way. Exactly. And that's okay. One early job you had that I want to ask, what did you do on Party of Five? I was on one episode of that show and it was the finale of, I think the first season, but I had done a TV show called Second Noah with Daniel Hugh Kelly.

33:29Did a season of the show. We were waiting to see if we were picked up. And then I was cast as this guy, Griffin on Party of Five, who was basically that show trying to do what my so-called life was doing at the time with Jared Leto. Brooding, mysterious, good looking guy. I was like, okay, well, I guess I got to get my Jared Leto impression down. I got to grow my hair out, do a nice blowout. Were you Nev's love interest? Yes. She was watching me drink out of a water fountain and I like walked towards her in a sort of sexy menacing way or I was trying to be sexy. This is not me. And I was on for that one episode, but the character was meant to be a regular.

34:08And in fact, he was a regular. But what happened was after I did that episode, my other show got picked up and I couldn't do it. So I went back to that show. Were you in love with Neville like I was? Yeah, of course. She Canadian. She is. And a ballet dancer. Canadian ballet dancer. Did they bring in a new Griffin? Because I recognize that name. Yes. Do you remember the London brothers, Jason and Jeremy London? Yes, I do. From Oklahoma. No! Yeah. So that role was recast, I think, with Jeremy. I remember their love interest for sure. He was on the show for a long time. Several years. He should send you a little thank you card.

34:42Yeah, I guess so. Okay, so knowing that you think you're faking it, when you get X-Men in 2000, is this the first time you're in the big big leagues? Certainly the first time I felt like I was. Yeah, I mean, you're there with people who you recognize from movie posters, right? Yeah. Excuse me. Take your time. Is there, oh, there is water, right? Yeah. Great. I'll join you. Yeah, great. you can tell i had a little raspy voice yeah so when x-men hit i felt like i certainly didn't belong there it was halle berry and patrick stewart and ian mckellen and all these legends hugh jackman no one knew who he was at the time but then became a superstar did you feel sandbagged by the character you're cyclops here's what i'm thinking i'm looking around all these people been doing forever and they're professionals and some of them are legends i already am gonna feel like i'm a bad actor and then i'm gonna look at myself in my trailer right before i walk out go But Jesus fucking Christ, they're also going to be looking at this one eye that's not my eye.

35:36Yes. I didn't feel like a superhero. I'll put it that way. Uh-huh. You know, wearing boots that are extra heeled to make me taller. I was also the youngest of the group. I think I was 25 or 26. Everyone was not much older, but older, Famke and Hugh and everybody. But also, there was someone else that was cast in that role. Before you? Yes. Someone already didn't make the cut. Right. So I was like on deck. That's scary, though, because they've already fired one person in that role. That would up my anxiety. I don't think it was a firing thing. It was that person ultimately opting out of it. So you knew you were a second choice.

36:08Was that Jeremy London? No, it was another Oklahoman. It was Nick Nolte. Is Nolte in Oklahoma? Yeah, I think so. Isn't Brad Pitt Oklahoma? No, he is Missouri. Raised in Missouri, but I think born in Shawnee, Oklahoma. Don't you dare take credit. No, I think that's right. He's a Missouri boy. I think that's right. Shawnee, Oklahoma. She wouldn't have said it for no reason, right? Yeah, it was in there. Give us old Bradley, will you? That's too much to give you. Give us old Bradley. We gave you the Dust Bowl. You're already famous. Michigan needs Bradley. Yeah, so there was another actor that was cast, and he had gone through wardrobe fittings and everything.

36:47So I was like, well, shit, I didn't get that. But I'd gone back for callbacks three or four times with Famke. Okay, well, I'm as close as I can be. And then when, for whatever reason, it didn't end up going forward, I was called. And then he asked if I'd be interested in going to do a role in the Superman Returns movie. First Superman movie since Christopher Reeve. Our Superman. Yeah, Richard Donner Superman. I was a big fan of that. I'll say yes to that. I'm not Superman. I don't care. We shot that in Australia for a year. For a year? Yeah, yeah. At Fox Studios down there. Did you like it? I loved Australia.

37:19Oh, I love Australia. I just don't know if I'd want to be living somewhere for a year. My wife at the time, who was pregnant, and my son, who was four years old, we all went down there together. Okay, that works. Then you don't feel like you've paused your existence. No, no, no. Exactly. In a really important time as well. When it was seven, eight months and the baby was getting closer and closer, she wanted to go back. She was like, I want to go back to my comfort zone. Because down there, you can have different opinions on this, but they don't baby you really like they do here. Every time my wife went to see the doctor, which is like every two weeks or something to check on the pregnancy, you would get an ultrasound.

37:52And in Australia, it was like, yeah, you're good. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tap on it with your fingers like, yeah, baby's doing font. You good? She was like, this is a little too au naturel for me. Yeah, yeah. But they don't treat it like you're sick. They treat it like this is the most natural thing you'll ever do. But yeah, even in England, it's like you look at their C-section rates compared to ours. You look at the epidural rate. It's handled much differently. We've really medicalized it. Yes. Okay, I just have a couple fun throughout your career. You've been in so much shit, too. I hope you're able to look back and go like, my God.

38:22When you say shit, do you mean like... No, no, no. I want to talk about this shit stuff. I think we're at an age where you can kind of look like I had a really funny conversation with my 10 year old Delta while I was in Detroit last weekend. We're laying in bed and she said, Dad, what did you do before the podcast? And I go, well, Delta, I was an actor. You've seen the movies I was in. She's like, oh, you're really doing it. It's really funny because for the last three years, I haven't acted. I just do this. And then mom is clearly an actor. That's obvious. and I think she had some understanding that maybe I fucked with it for a minute and I go well yeah and I've been in I don't know 15 movies and seven series you know I found myself defending the fact that I had actually had a career as an actor which is 10 yeah yeah so maybe six or seven was the last time she saw me go to a set and you know they don't remember when they're six or seven I found myself going oh no I've been in like 15 or 20 movies and I've been in like six series she's like what are they so I'm listing my entire resume to my 10 year old but I did have a moment where I I went, yeah, you actually have a lot of things to say.

39:23I don't think you ever feel like you've succeeded in this business, or at least certainly I don't. No, that's woven into the DNA of this ambition. But we're both at an age and we've been doing it long enough that you actually can list things you've done for a while to your 10 year old. And that felt kind of good. Oh, wow. I really did do it. I have a strong case against what she thinks. And so when I'm going through your history today, I'm like, oh, yeah, that was a huge movie. That was a huge movie. Wow. That was a huge movie. You've really racked up quite an impressive career. I'm sure it doesn't feel that way to you, but in black and white, it is.

39:58It doesn't eliminate the feeling of you might not work again, but you look back and go, oh, wow. I don't know about you, but it took me a long time to get to that feeling, which is whatever your definition of if I've made it. I feel like this has been a success. Yeah. And I'm so grateful for that. That's hard to get to. Yeah, yeah. But nothing like a child that's going to humble you. You were an actor? Sincerely. No, no, no, no. Mom's an actor. I'm like, we just watched Hit and Run. It's like that movie Mom was in? That mom's movie? Anyways, Hairspray, I'm deeply envious that you got to spend time with John Waters.

40:32Was it a spectacular experience? I'm going to break your heart here, but I didn't really get to spend much time with him. He wasn't on the set much. Adam Shankman directed it. It was more like the Broadway musical. He came to set a couple of times. He did a little cameo. Okay. But a very good friend of mine, his girlfriend, now wife, when they were still engaged, but been together for a long time. Wonderful people, all very open about everything. Turkey hot dogs are great. Yeah. And we were at one of these Hollywood events of like GQ Men of the Year. Go ahead. You got Handsomest Man Alive by GQ Magazine.

41:03It was probably that event. Okay. So you're at Handsomest Man Alive. At this thing. Thank you. You came right into my story. I see the breadcrumbs you laid out for me. And I was with my son, actually, who was at the time 16, 17. I'm standing next to the girl. I've known her for a couple of years, known him longer. And she had a couple of drinks and he had two. And she goes, I have something to admit to you. And I said, are you OK that my son is standing here? Like, what's going on? And your future husband? And she said, the first time I ever masturbated was to you and the movie Harrison. Oh, wow.

41:35Corny Collins? What? James, I can't imagine something. What a compliment. I'd rather hear. Of course, great compliment. But of course, my mind was going into the. What? That character. What? Wow. Check me out on Party of Five if you want to beat off. I got long hair. Or the prince. I bet a lot of people's first times was the prince. Could have been worse. Those Cyclops might have been freakier. Yeah, I don't know. But I just thought that was the strangest. It says a lot about the woman in a cool way. Also, it was kind of innocent and pure. Thank God we got that. I'm so envious. That's never been told to me.

42:06It has happened, my friend. To Frito? I think there's a dude. Can you imagine? I think there's a dude out there. who has a fetish of watching an overweight man eat flat sharon out of a tube while he sits on a toilet. So maybe. No. I learned this today, but in Enchanted, it didn't make the movie or the soundtrack, but you had a duet with Idina Menzel. Yeah. Is that intense? Like talk about LeBron playing one-on-one. Yeah. No joke. Weirdly with music and singing, the sort of imposter syndrome wasn't as strong. When you come to LA to be an actor, you're presenting yourself as, hey I'm here I'm good when people don't know you can sing the expectations aren't there you were never declaring I'm a singer no I thrive in those situations where no one's expecting anything of you it's like when you tell them on a set like yeah I could juggle on this scene they're like you can juggle yeah do you think anyone's listening to the last three minutes or just still thinking about the masturbation thing I've moved on because I'm still thinking what are you thinking I'm thinking about her first and foremost love to meet her sure but also what an interesting thing to say to someone in front of your boyfriend.

43:14He was in earshot as well. Right. I find this very interesting actually. There must have been four words that he can hear that come out of her mouth that will stop him in his tracks no matter how engaged he is with somebody else. Obviously. And I saw his head on a swivel when she said it turned. Who wouldn't? It almost feels like a move. I'm not sure that he knew this information. He turned and smiled. It was like, what is my girlfriend saying? And she's like, I'm sorry. I had to tell him because it's just so sweet and innocent. Oh, you're sweet and innocent masturbation. Yeah, this is wild. Plus, you have to see her again.

43:49And then do you think about it when you see her? Did you then masturbate later that night at the thought of her? Yeah, I mean, this is a lot. I have so many questions. I just want to be on record applauding that she told you that. What a gift. Well, and it wasn't steeped in shame or anything. It was like, hey, this is a funny story. You're not going to believe this. I never thought I'd meet the person that I first. This is funny. Yeah. And I was like, good for you for just coming out of the gates and saying that. We were friendly, but we're not best friends. But the way she was abandoned, just like unapologetically saying.

44:23Abandoned. Yeah, big time. Like if you were directing her in the scene. is like the director had just told her, throw it away more. Let's take that back. This is nothing. Yeah. Just throw it away. Oh yeah, when you did the Courtney Collins dance. I almost forgot to tell you this. Yeah, the first time I ever messaged, I was watching you. Really good. See, just throw it away. Don't do that for Delta so she can know you're a great actor. How dare you? Don't bring her up in a sentence. One more for fun. Do whatever you want to do. Okay, whatever. You were great on 30 Rock. We're going to have to move on, Monica.

44:52Sorry. At some point. You were great as Liz Lemon's lover. What an honor to be able to be Tina's. That was fun. That was another moment, though. It was like, was this a mistake? There were moments where I'm like, all right, I loved the enchanted role. I can do this. I've ripped a little bit off of movies in the past that I saw. That was like, who came in here before me? Matt Damon, Jon Hamm. Oh, boy. All these guys and Tina Fey. And that show is a masterpiece of comedy writing. She's intimidating. The whole experience is intimidating. She's lovely. Had you done Anchorman yet or no? I don't think so.

45:22Because to me, stepping onto the set of Anchorman 2 as a non-established comedian that didn't come from a comedy school coupled with they've already done it together. Yep. This is like a double fucking whammy. This is one of the roles that you blew my socks off. Oh, man. You're so fucking confident. You look awesome in that era, by the way. If you had to live in an era, you look so sexy in that first scene where we meet you. Are you an all white or something? A light blue suit. Fucking blown out hair. Yeah, the blown out. Hair sprayed as well. And a lot of like flicking your wrist with the watch.

46:01You completely hold your own with a handful of the greatest ever do it. Were you shitting your fucking blue suit? I was. Nice of you to say all that. Comedy was always something that really ignited me. I never really felt comfortable being a beating man guy. I was always looking for the character roles. I wanted to be a character actor. You know, I would hear back from casting directors. Well, they don't know you're funny. Do you feel like you were trapped in rom-com jail for a second? I was more afraid that I was getting trapped in the other guy thing. Where I was like, the other guy who gets cuckold.

46:32Is that it? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The good guy who she cheats on with the other guy. X-Men, The Notebook. Oh my God, The Notebook. Oh my God, I forgot. That's the first time you masturbated, I think you told me. Okay, we'll circle back around to that. Is that what you told me yesterday? No, no. It was to Ryan, though. Let's be honest. Let's be honest. That was my first time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was becoming known as the guy like you cast him. Even Superman Returns. Superman has left. I totally understand why you would be afraid of that. That's like nice guy. Yeah, nice guy. That fire isn't there in the relationship.

47:08You like him enough that you feel bad he got dumped. But you don't like him so much that you're not still rooting for the girl to dump him. That's an interesting zone. And I don't know what that says about me. I'm like, yep, give it to me. I got my bib on. Is he a fucking buffoon? He doesn't win, right? Okay. This is my comfort zone. You're saying he doesn't get the girl? Oh, look no further. Perfect. Hey, let's keep the expectations set. Okay, so then 27 Dresses, you're pumped because that's an enormous hit. Huge. Yeah, that was really what I felt like was my first rom-com. Ann Fletcher, who was one of the choreographers and very good friends with Adam Shankman on Hairspray, came in one day while we were filming Hairspray and said, hey, I just got my first movie I'm going to direct.

47:46And I said, fantastic. What role am I playing? making a dumb joke. And she laughed, laughed, laughed. And then the next day she came in and she's like, you know what? You should be in this movie. And it's with Katherine Heigl. She said, well, I want to bring you in to read with her if you can. So we did a whole reading and everything. And then we made the movie. It was cool. It was an enormous hit. Yeah. When you're making something that's going to be a success or people are going to talk about for a while, do you know that when you're making it? I don't ever know. When we were making The Notebook, it was like, I think everyone's really good, but this could be a schmaltzy bad.

48:13And then 27 Dresses is the same. This is probably just going to be your formula. It's going to make$38 million and go away. Yeah. As most of them do. And then it's an enormous global hit. And then Westworld. And I think I'm a little late on the train on Westworld. I think it had already had all the hype and the acclaim. It is still the most watched first season of an HBO show of all time. It was just a Goliath hit. That felt like something special before we even showed up on set. Because it was talked about like it was. It was like, this is Nolan. and the budget's going to be crazy. Anthony Hopkins and Harris.

48:48This is all the markings of this is going to be good. And the first season of the show was pretty transformative. It was a very cool thing to be a part of. The only other first season I would say is as flawless as Jonah's new show, Fallout. Every episode is a fucking banger. It's almost impossible for the first season of a show to be that way. But Westworld, that first season is just a masterpiece. I just felt like I was along for the ride on that one. You're really great in that. Did you get on with Jonah? We interviewed him and I really fell in love with him. I think he's the coolest dude. Yeah.

49:19Well, you guys chatting. There's my masturbation story. He seems Oklahomaian or was he? He's Chicago. Yeah. He has that vibe. By way of England. Great man. And Lisa Joy, his wife. Sorry, I don't want to leave her up. They co-write on these and wonderful people. Intimidating. Intimidating because of his intellect. But he doesn't present as that. No, he doesn't. You guys probably talked a lot of car stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he rolled up in an Ariel Adam. him. I was like, you're the only person that's ever done this and you'll be the last. I remember going to Fontana for some carting out there with him.

49:46Oh, wonderful. Yeah. Great guy. Midas touch. Brilliant writing. Always curious about what hasn't been done before. Those sets. Where were you? That's still the most impressive world I've ever seen created. Yeah. We were Santa Clarita. Santa Clarita. Yeah. For the most part, Lake Piru. Oh, sure. Oh, I've shot so much. Melody Ranch. But that was a really special experience. It was another one of those. I didn't feel as sure footed as i'd have liked to because the show was so such a high level yeah everyone was perfect there was a scene in i think the fifth or sixth episode it was me anthony hopkins and ned harris and the scene was between them make no mistake i was on the verge of dying as i usually am on the show sure bleeding out you've probably died more on film than anyone else probably whether it's actual death or just being dropped by or cuckold the other woman the death of the relationship and ed and anthony they were like can we talk about this scene a bit because it's a long one and it's the first time we meet and jonah was like yeah let's all get together so the four of us got together you're like i better get in here too yeah why the fuck am i here i'm pretty sure that when i come to life for one second i think i stabbed the table with a knife or something and then just go back to sleep i'm happy to sit here and just listen to you guys but they were talking about the scene and jonah has this really beautiful way of answering your question without really answering it but i think he did answer the question but to us it was like that was the most abstract he started talking about something about the sistine chapel oh and if you look inside the robe we're messing stuff because it's god's robe but you see the human brain inside oh and he told this really beautiful elaborate story an allegory yeah excuse me we're right in sync i need to drink and clear my throat at the same time.

51:33Yeah, let's do it. Monty, do you feel left out? You're not drinking. I'm a voice for this podcast. Do it. Do you need to blow your nose or anything? No. Oh, look at you. Thank you. So I can be a part of it. Yeah, I don't want you to feel left out. Take a big, long sip. I'm good. Did you cough a little bit? It's the most water I've drank. This is that time of year. Three weeks. Okay, so he gives this kind of abstract allegory. I remember walking out with Anthony Hopkins and he turns to me and he goes, but I still don't fucking know what the scene's about.

52:08Interesting. So that made me feel better. Okay. Okay. He doesn't even get it. I've never met or worked with Ed Harris, but I have a hunch and I want to ask you. So I have worked with a single actor, which was beyond unique, Robert Duvall. It didn't really matter how he modulated. did. It was true every time in a way that I just have never experienced with another actor. And I've worked with great, great actors, but there's a couple of folks that they just cannot sound anything but true, no matter what the adjustment they're given is. I feel that Ed Harris is that person as well. For sure. Tell me about being in scenes with him.

52:48Does he just suck you into his bubble? Well, yeah, in a great way, but also not so much so to make you feel like you're anywhere and near as captivating or as good, but you do feel like, all right, I've got to pay attention. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Be really present in this. You can see him do something different every time, but the gravitas and the focus, all of it was just effortless. It was just like, he's not acting. I'm acting. Yeah, exactly. I'm acting like a character. Yeah. I've always said that. I'm making choices. He's existing. Yes. And you've been really nice to say nice things about roles that I've done and everything.

53:26And I still get weird, like, yeah, I don't know. I'm not great at taking compliments because I feel that way. And I'm not trying to discredit what I've learned or what I've achieved. But there is still that little part of you that's like, I'm acting. And there are people, there are actors. You call them actors. There's a handful. Yeah, right. There's not a lot. No, but those few, I think that's when they say it. You have it. Yeah, yeah. That's what it looks like. Okay, but sorry, not to jump ahead. We're probably maybe there now. Maybe, maybe. Did you feel like that? jury duty? Well, that's the next.

53:58I know. That's what I was saying. Okay, we'll get right to it. So the next most spectacular thing in the world. This has got to be the greatest thing you've ever done is jury duty. We have to find out how you become willing to even participate in that. Because talk about a fucking high risk swing. I hear people say that. I mean, yes, it was a risky high wire act. Let's just start with the most basic thing that you're going to go from Westworld and you're going to be on a reality show. Yes. In case people haven't seen it, maybe we give a premise. They need to fucking stop what they're doing and watch it.

54:26I agree. This is one of the greatest shows ever made. I agree. There is one man who sincerely believes he's on a jury deciding a court case in Los Angeles, but everyone else is actors. The judge is Ike Barinholtz's father. Yes. Who is a real defense attorney. Yeah. Yes. He's phenomenal. He should have been an actor his whole life. He wanted to be. He got a late break. Yeah. He's great. Yeah. And then this unsuspecting guy comes to find out that the actor, James Marsden, is also on the jury. Yes. I'm sorry but when I hear that premise I'm like is anyone gonna believe this I thought the same thing and did your fear go where mine would have been which is either A they'll know me and not believe it but I think more likely this person won't know the actor Dax Shepard did you have any fear that like oh this person might not even know who I am and that's kind of part of the premise I felt like if that were the case that would be like a goldmine for comedy for me making an ass of myself trying to get him to appreciate me and Delta yes because that role is what I'm way more comfortable playing, which is how do I make fun of what we do?

55:28Not in a disrespectful way, pulling out the vanity, the self-consumed celebrity of it all. Yes. And the subtle entitlement that just kind of gets dropped here and there. Anyway, I just thought, oh, I'd love to just play this version. The douchiest version of yourself imaginable. And it's for the most part, complete fiction. But the scariest thing was, what is this show? There were no comps. Yeah. Joe Schmoe. It was nothing like I'd done before. But my favorite show. So Curb, Larry Sanders show, you know, where the feeling is you're not sitting here looking at the script going, oh, I said and instead of the, like it's got to be verbatim.

56:04It's more like here's a funny outline. Let's make it a scene. Play. And play with it. Christopher Guest was waiting for Guffman and Best in Show and Spinal Tap. I want to do something like that where I'm in a room full of funny people who can get on that frequency where you're like I see where you're going with this. I see where you're going with this. And Anchorman 2 was watching those guys do that. The generosity. It wasn't Steve trying to steal the spotlight from Will. It was them complimenting one another, setting each other up for these jokes. And I was like, I want to do this in this sort of environment with like people from the Groundlings and UCB.

56:37And I don't think I was prepared for the other side of it, which was the choreography, the technical challenge of the whole thing. But we were surrounded by really great people. It was Todd Schulman who did Borat and Lee Eisenberg and Gene Stipnitsky, The Office and David Bernard, a friend of mine, I've done a couple of things with him. He's my closest friend. And he was like, I have this project for you. And it's so hard to cast because it has to be someone who is willing to poke fun at himself. People will know, but not like a superstar. And I'm like, yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm already comfortable.

57:12Do I lose a girl at any point? Yeah. How many times do I get dumped? Oh, in my sleep. And I came in, there were scripts, but there was no dialogue really written because you can't you don't know what he's going to say you know you can set certain scenarios up and i thought the scripts were so fucking funny brilliant writing and i was howling reading them going oh my god i'm taking a shit in his hotel room bathroom i'm trying to get him to take the blame for it some of the swings i can't believe you guys land and i was on punk i was thinking about you all the time yes when i was watching i was like i know how he feels i've been in this situation a bunch of times i'd argue it's the best acting you'll ever do in your life thank you that is the closest thing i ever got to like i'm not acting the laws of cause and effect have been turned upside down the lines between reality and fiction are blurred there's no second take if you go too far you've fucked up you fucked up that's a really interesting third element in the room at all times that's exactly it and what kept it feeling so real is everything you didn't see in the show which is everything that was cut out each episode's what 25 minutes we were there six hour days of just being in court.

58:22Right. And in those five, six hours, you find little moments to insert the bit that's in the script. Outside of that moment, you're fucking laying on the floor taking a real nap. Right. In the deliberation room, not caring where the camera is. When you're acting in a movie, I'm always so aware. You have to be. I have a great appreciation for people who are technicians and recognize, okay, where's your light? Here's my space I can kind of play in. This was like free for all. Yeah. The camera guy is just going to follow you around. Whatever you're going to do, just be ready for everything. And they're going to capture all of it.

58:54And some poor bastard has got to edit this together. That deserves the biggest. Yeah. And I think that's where my hat goes off to those people that found the show and crafted it. They had the outlines and the scripts were like, OK, these are the moments. We can shave the other stuff off that we know is not going to be there. But when Ronald, God bless Ronald, like this sweetheart, man. Listen to me. There's a lot of gifts in that show. You're one of them, but you couldn't assemble a think tank and come up with a better person. Yeah. Because he was so kind and you never felt bad for him. He's confident.

59:24He's tall. He's fucking generous. His spirit is so positive, smiling and helping people out. But not a victim. Right. This is something you just get lucky or you don't get lucky. The heart of the show is what a good person Ronald was. Yes, he was. And that's how they sold the show to me, which is this isn't a prank show. We're not trying to make an ass of somebody other than me and the other jurors, but not him. This is what we were calling at the time a hero's journey. And I was like, yeah, sure. That's a pretty way of saying we're doing a prank show. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

1:00:09so i kind of held the writers the producers everybody in check for that we better be doing something nice here because my other concern was we're fucking with this guy for three weeks of his life that's a long time to mess with someone's human experience and to fool somebody and you're going to forge relationships and friendships during that time and we're going to lift the curtain yeah and he's like that was fake that was fake yeah and i know how i would feel i don't even like a surprise birthday party right not to mention like i think i'm friends with james marsden now you're telling me maybe we're not friends or feel like a total asshole you know you've been bamboozled.

1:00:43Yeah, chump. Yeah. So my struggles were every night I would get on the phone with the producer. What's tomorrow's stuff? We're hitting these moments. And what do I not feel comfortable with? I was very firm on it. I cannot turn the screws to this guy any more than just the situation itself. I'm not going to make him the butt of any jokes because I just feel like that's where this show is going to work is if we're not mean to this guy. And by the way, it's low hanging fruit and it's very tempting. You probably have to resist nonstop. There's a scene in the show where I ask him to do an audition tape with me to read off camera for me.

1:01:19Which really quick, let that sink in. If you haven't seen the show, a non-actor, I think he sold either solar panels or wind. I think it was solar panels. He's going to be asked to act in a scene with you for an audition. And just imagine you with zero acting experience being asked to act with James Marsden. what a mensch that he's even willing to do it. Yeah. And he got so into it. At the beginning of the show, he didn't really know exactly who I was. I think he recognized me. Maybe he recognized me. Yeah. He's so kind. He recognized you and then actually did some research to help you feel good.

1:01:53He couldn't do that until we were done with the first day of shooting. Right. So we had a woman that was planted there in the check-in room or whatever. And this was part of the script. In case he doesn't recognize me, this woman's going to come over and ask for a photo. So then he goes, why are you getting your photo taken and then she took a photo and he still didn't say anything he just got a thinking and so then i get to play with it and be like oh boy this guy sucks over there and i thought this had sonic on it i'm in this movie sonic and you know so i'm like doing that whole bit and then he just completely innocently goes oh oh yeah you were inside i heard that was not a good movie and i was like don't fuck this up now because this is perfect This is what you were after.

1:02:32Yeah, exactly. He felt bad about that later, which made me feel bad. Of course. Because of already knowing what we're doing to this guy. But it was such a mensch. It's such a sport. When you tell somebody the premise of the show, you're like, come on. He had to have known. What about the cameras? There's cameras everywhere. Well, he was told that we were making a documentary about the court system is serving jury duty. He just thought it was going to be boring. And then just happens to be this actor guy who's also stuck on it. And he's so self-absorbed. absorbed, he's going to stay and allow himself to be on camera is because he thinks this documentary might qualify for an Emmy or something.

1:03:07You know, some dumb reason like, all right, well, I'll be on camera. Because normally I've got a quote. But yeah, I was worried about doing something traumatizing to him for the rest of his life. This hero's journey. You know, if you're celebrating someone's good character or their humanity, this is a pretty unconventional way of doing it. Yeah. Right. You're punching somebody in the face. And when they don't punch you back you go you're a good person exactly there were conversations about he seems to be a good sport he seems to be handling it good and he talks to people afterwards and seems to be doing good and i'm like all right well just keep an eye on him because this doesn't feel good to me i love playing with all the comedy everything but i'm just worried that this guy's gonna have a breakdown after this so every day was like all right let's be nice to this guy first of all in that audition scene i could feel that the creative minds behind the show were kind of like get him to act bad but they weren't saying it there's just a feeling well it's right there It's right there.

1:03:56Like you said, you wasn't so tempted to blow hanging fruit. It's very obvious. This is the move. And I was like, I just can't do that to this guy. One, he's a great guy that I should be more like. Yeah, totally. You know, and two, you punch him below the belt. It's not level playing field here. It actually was way better that he was good. Yeah, it was great. And I got to play with him a little bit and like, it's kind of all about what I'm doing in this. And then once we start, I'm like, hey, can you adjust that just a little bit? Yeah. But I would always try to do it in a real way. handled it so well when you see in your mind this project that you're working on the best version of it you're like this is what we're going for i don't know if we're gonna get there but if i see that and i just kind of follow that then i'm jumping out of bed in the morning to go to that fucking courtroom in downtown la somewhere and yeah but i also kind of felt like well shit i've really never been trained in improv groundling stuff i feel like i can do it because i've been such a fan of that for so long.

1:04:55Yeah. But I don't know if I can. We had a boy, I don't even know if I'm allowed to say this, but I guess maybe there's a statute of limitations on what I can say. I'll check after. Okay. But we had a test run. We do the first day and that's it. And the judge comes out and was like, we settled. Everyone go home just to kind of see. Yeah. To burn it as a mulligan, a rehearsal, see if we can get to his first day. And the guy looked like he was having a nervous break down halfway through the day. Sweating. Because we did this bit where as he walked from the parking lot after a little on the fly interview, he witnesses a woman pulling a stroller out of her car and she accidentally smashes the window of the car next to her.

1:05:33Well, it's all been planned, obviously. And that's the judge's car. And he witnesses it. And the sweet guy comes over and like, I'm so sorry. Are you OK? And she's like, yeah, I'm just frazzled and I don't know what happened here. And he didn't know what to make of it. Cause here he is like now starting his first day on this documentary about jury duty and something really strange is happening. Then we get into the courtroom. Judge leaves for a while, comes back with like a bandage around his hand. Someone, Mike Baranhurst's father with a Chicago accident broke into my car. Did anyone witness what happened to my car?

1:06:08Someone stole my Eagles CDs. Oh no. Oh my God. It was a hilarious bit, but he was shitting himself and like beet red. This is a lot. Sweating. Yeah. He turned to me and he just looked like he was really, really panicking. And he said, what do I do? I said, what do you mean? He was like, I saw it happen. And the woman looked really nice, but I didn't know she would steal a CD. At that point in my head, I was like, okay, well, this is just a rehearsal. And nothing's worth someone actually having a genuine coronary. Right. Yes. And I just went, just maybe go tell the bailiff. I wasn't supposed to do that.

1:06:42I was supposed to continue on with what our narrative was. Yeah. I was like, no. Yeah. I, of course, was in that situation several times myself. Yeah. Tell me, man. Did you ever get into moments where you're like, I just don't think I can do this to somebody? You weren't deliberately mean. By the way, same thing. Often the premise was. And as the show went on and I had more leverage, I was less and less willing. I can give you a great example. It was one of the last episodes we shot. In fact, there's one of the only ones we ever shot after it aired because so many people were watching it. They were naturally afraid I couldn't do it anymore.

1:07:18So I had a wig and a mustache and all this stuff. And it was a NFL celebrity golf tournament. And I got there on the day and I had my wig on. And I go, OK, so what's the bit? And I'm like, OK, you're going to sit down with this guy. He just cheated on his wife. You're going to bring that up because they have been told you have to sit down for interviews at certain holes as part of this charity event. They were just all very mean. It was like airing people's dirty laundry. And I go, I'm not going to do it. It was too late for them. I had enough leverage at that point. And they go, what the fuck are we going to do?

1:07:47And I go, give me 20 minutes and I'll think of some shit. I convinced Jerome Bettis to tackle me on camera. The bus. Yeah, the bus. And pretended my back was broken and he believed it and panicked. So that was funny. Garcia, they wanted me to talk about him being gay, which was a rumor. Right. And I'm like, I'm not doing that. So I told him, Mr. Garcia, you're listed as 6 '2", 220. a lot of young people in America here trying to grow up and be you, but we just shook hands and I'm five nine and I'm taller than you. So how do you explain that? Why are you lying? And it becomes this whole thing. We're standing back to back, four guys defending his height, which is preposterous.

1:08:26I'm claiming I'm five nine. And then another guy who I had heard had one of the bigger egos in the league. Every 40 seconds in the interview, I kept touching my ear like I had an earpiece in. I'm so sorry. We're going to, who are we going to? And I would list players that were much lower status than him. And I kept cutting away. And then he kept giving up on the interview and I kept getting them back. I'm so, so sorry. That wasn't my choice. And I just do this over and over again. So, you know, that's what I came up with. But I'm not bringing out their dirty laundry or allegations that they're gay or all this other stuff that, again, is just low hanging.

1:08:58Right. And I'm sure that all of those guys are afterwards were like, I actually, you know what? Yeah. When Jerome Pettis finds out my back is not broken, he's delighted. He thought for a second he's going to get sued by some Canadian reporter in a wig. And it's celebrities. That's the inverse of what you're doing. The other thing I was going to add is I was also far more desperate. You're already at a point where you've had a big career and you're financially fine. That was my first time on TV. So I was also willing. My moral standard was probably much lower than it would be today. I remember having this conversation with one of the producers who had also worked on Borat, you know, all of Sasha's stuff.

1:09:32And he was like, if you're a really good guy, this might not be for you. Oh, right, right, right. And he didn't say that directly at me, but it was kind of like, this is fucking hard. How you navigate getting the comedy people actually want to see. Yes, it's at the expense of somebody. The nature of the show is that. Yeah. That's why this show was so awesome is Ronald just shined. It made you love him. I was happy for him that he got to display what a wonderful, beautiful human being. Yeah. I think everyone who saw it was like, I would love to be friends with that guy. That's a good person. And that's what actually happened was we all became actual friends during it because he was such a good guy and fun to be around.

1:10:13There were moments we were like, shit, I don't know if I can do this bit to him today because he's going to kind of go like, well, that's an asshole thing for you to do here. When we were just chatting about all of our favorite movies and favorite childhood memories. and we would have real conversations in between the bits that we had to hit that day. Yeah, of course. And then you sort of draw him in. And he draws you in. You do all the awful things, which is gain someone's trust and then take a giant shit on it, literally. But did you talk to him after? And were you like, hey man, how are you?

1:10:46I mean, I was the most nervous when Ike's father turned to him and said, this is all fake. And for a split second, I saw his eyes kind of go dark and scared for like a millisecond trying to compute probably yeah exactly and i hated that yeah and i already knew what i was gonna do and we all were gonna do was storm the box where he was sitting and just let him know yes this is probably a lot to comprehend and to take in and process right now but if you're wondering if all of this was real this was all real and we adore you and love you the last thing i want to do is like okay that was fun cool see you around give me your number let's hang out yeah let's have a rap party i don't even know we're gonna do that at first like let's have a fucking party with this guy he's perfect reassure him that yes we took you along for a ride but you are a shining star in this big time and here's what the show's about and it's about you my friend and everything about you that people are gonna love about you we love about you and so it was a love fest after that because i really was like is it gonna be an insult when we hold up a check for$150, whatever he got paid.

1:11:54Like that lets us off the hook somehow. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yes. Can the two coexist? Can we find really, really funny moments and have this be a comedy and also be kind? Can we be celebrating this dude while we're - Exactly. In an organic way. It was the tightrope of all tightropes and it really landed. And we would have hated it. I did not like the second Borat. I was like, these are nice people who trusted him and offered to bring him in to the house and now we're yeah i don't like it he's brilliant at what he does but if he's going into an antique shop and breaking everything in the antique shop i'm sure most people out there find that hilarious and i was like i know but it's funny how when it's somebody you feel like deserves it yeah or something right like justice i'm more okay with it but this guy was just so pure yeah okay so paradise i took a huge gamble last night and started watching the screeners that were sent to me with my whole family the aforementioned 10 year old and her older sister who's 11 and then kristin you're the president this is your second time being a president you were jfk yeah have you been a president a third time no just two okay that's a bad signal of your aging that's plenty right right that's like you know when you get hired to be the president you're like okay i guess i'm not 30 anymore yes i'm not going to prom anymore sterling k brown is your secret service and kristin within about eight minutes started going my god this chemistry is a white hot i always want him to kiss the chemistry so good so first out of the gates was the chemistry between you guys is incredible he's so awesome yeah he's something else what a fucking beast of an actor well he's one of those ed aris yeah he's one of I was like, you were born to do this.

1:13:42And I found my favorite male physique. Oh, circles. And Adonis, the guy. We meet him with his shirt off. Thank God. You don't make me wait. We like to hook him early. OK, so right out of the gates, you're kind of a rogue president. You're young. You're rich before you even got there. You kind of want to coast through your next four years. And crazy series of events happens. We're now flashing back for a lot of it. But the true premise of the show doesn't even hit us to the end. And my kids don't do well with blood. And there is some blood. And I'm reassuring them. I think this will be the only blood.

1:14:19And then we're going to investigate this for most of this show, which they were able to get through. And then they were so fucking hooked that we had to stay up till midnight last night. Going on, Dan Fogelman wrote it, who did This Is Us. He did Crazy, Stupid Love, Incredible Writer. The premise of this is so radical. How can you explain the premise in a way that you're allowed to do? That's tough. I've been actually coached on this. That makes sense. I assumed. Because you have to know that Dan Fogelman, one of his signatures is twists and turns. It's really an exploration of power dynamics, relationships, choices you make in life and loyalties.

1:14:58I speak like Nolan now and just speak really vaguely about the brain and the robe on the Sistine Chapel. I can say this. You're in a community that appears to be designed. It made me think of, I know there's some communities like Gulf Shores, Alabama, where it's like the whole thing was constructed to have its own convenience store in its own neighborhoods. Yeah. Little Pleasantville. That's a great one. It's very Truman show. It's very Pleasantville. And it just has the greatest turn at the end of the pilot. You see the trailers and it's like, this is a political thriller. and it's really not about politics.

1:15:34The only thing I didn't like about it was I'm watching how much you drink and smoke. And I'm like, we don't have this physique at 50 if we're drinking and smoking that hard. I mean, we do see you working out. So I guess you're pushing through like, oh, speaking of which, Mr. Dax, Mr. Dax. Oh, that's pretty damn good. It's pretty good. I heard you doing it and I was like, this guy's got the rhythm. He understands the essence. He knows about the spirit. He understands. That's fucking really good. It's a tough one to do because the hardest impression is the one that everybody feels like they can do a little bit of.

1:16:07Arnold and Walken. But that one's just like, how do you get the little extra bits in there? I did this movie with Woody Harrelson and he had just done True Detective with him. So he came to set with all these Matthewisms and I just soaked it all up and like, no, he didn't say that. Yes, he did, brother. He wouldn't believe it. He wouldn't believe it. He said that. They're best pals. Say what you said to Woody, though. What did I say to Woody? Because I love that you spelled it out there. Oh, yeah. He said, why don't we head on over to my AIR stream? Make it M-A-R-G-E-R-E-D-O. Blow your horns off.

1:16:43Blow your horns off. That is good. Yours is really solid. I think yours is the only one that I've heard that I think is really spot on. I just felt like everybody did it. Matt Damon's pretty great. He does one. Yeah, he does one. But that's sort of making the viral rounds. three years later or something. Be like, oh, you did great. And three or four months ago, I think Matthew posted it on his Instagram. Like, oh, that's kind of cool. I know he does it like Marsha. Marsha's got there. He's got to go check it out and do the ashes and the whole thing. That's pretty fucking cool. All right, I'll take it.

1:17:16I know I've struggled with the fact that I've kind of become buddies with him. And I'm like, am I supposed to hang this up or am I going to keep pushing? I've decided to keep pushing. I've even sent him messages as him. He's got a great sense of humor about it. He leans into it. It's a green light. Well, Yeah, he's another one that's in shape. That's what made me think of it. Because my first conversation with him is I said, listen, I'm overly obsessed with drinking because I'm an ex-addict. And I've got a handful of people where I'm like, did they slide through? Are they the one unicorn? I know the stories of you drinking and I know you're up at five working out.

1:17:46Do you just have some kind of constitution? He goes, yeah, I guess I got a constitution. Some of my favorite workouts. I wake up hungover, not pushed through. And then, you know, you feel that break. and you're on the other side of it. Those are some of my favorite workouts because at night when I'm going to go for it, I look in the mirror and I say, we're going to go hard tonight, but you're going to wake up tomorrow morning. You're going to hit that gym. You're going to do eight miles. And that's how it's going to be. He makes a deal with himself. And I'm like, yeah, you just have a fucking constitution.

1:18:16I didn't have it. I slept till two. Some people can just do that. I think he's totally normal now, but he used to go hard and he'd show up for everything and he looked fucking great. So you're right. It could be done. This president could be McConaughey. I didn't think about that. Maybe he's got the waking up at 5 a.m. Get on the booty burner. Burn off these LBs and creeping around the wayside. I can't really describe the show other than to say it's fantastic. When you pulled up, we were watching it midday. It's the holiday, so they're not at school. I can promise you we'll have binged this entire thing within 48 hours.

1:18:56It's a fucking banger of a show. It's awesome. I appreciate that. And I've had this tickle in my throat for three weeks. A long time. Annoying because my voice is not fully there. It still sounds really nice. And I just made you do McConaughey. You can kind of use the voice for that one. Do you have a word that gets you into it? Because mine is first time I talked to him, he came up from maybe this behind me. Mr. Dax. Mr. Dax. Mr. Dax. That's the S's, isn't it? Yeah. The old Texas whistle. Really good. But back to Nolan, it has a lot of parallels with Fallout. A lot of these shows are starting to tackle in subversive ways income inequality.

1:19:32Everyone's got the sense. It's like, wait, some people are living one way in this country and the rest are living dramatically different. And I think art's starting to tackle that in a not so obvious way, but in other ways. That's the answer I wish I had in my mouth when you asked me what the show's been. Because that's really it. It's class. It's power dynamics. it's giving everybody a snapshot of like, what if, and is this happening now? Again, you watch the trailer and you're like, okay, this looks like a murder mystery. I'm laying there dead. The murder is a mislead. It's an appetizer. It's the backdrop.

1:20:04So it's a tough one to talk about for sure without spoiling it. How have we done, Monica? Do you want to watch it? Yeah, very badly. Or she's like, I don't care. I don't know anything. Neither one of you said anything about the show. No, it sounds exciting. Sterling, I guess. Sterling has his shirt off. Titles Paradise. I think I got that part right. It's paradise. Well, that son of a bitch is on Hulu. That son of a bitch. That son of a bitch. That's streaming. Son of a bitch on Hulu. You can be streaming, streaming. You can stream it. You can stream, stream. Yes, on Hulu. Officially the hardest project to talk about.

1:20:44Maybe other than Westworld. This is your niche. Shit you got to go out and promote and camp. Great. And I don't have the brain to do it anyway. I can't tell you I don't know so I have no answer for your question it's filled with some good twists and turns and there's a little lost in there as well the audience is going to be trying to figure out what the hell's going on through the whole thing is it a week to week drop or are they all out do we know because that makes a difference in a mystery maybe ask my own contact at the old Lulu I think they're dropping the first two or three and then you're going to have to wait every week which give me your thoughts on that.

1:21:20I like it. I'm back to liking it. I hate it and prefer it. Of course, because I'm annoyed. And then I love that it gives me 10 weeks of enjoyment instead of one night. Something to look forward to. I'm going to sound really old now, but when you live in the world where you can just get it whenever the hell you want it, no one's being told no anymore. There's a good thing to limits. Even in entertainment, I think it's a good thing too. When the Beatles came out... You didn't get all their albums at once. If you didn't get them at once, probably impossible to see them live. You got a couple of songs before the album even came out.

1:21:53It's like it built up to now I can go get the whole album. Or movies back in the day where they would come out and you would have to wait six months to see it again. I feel like there's something about the psychology of that that makes us enjoy it more. Or you even think something's better than it is because of that. It's delayed gratification, which ultimately is always good. But if you don't buy into that, just fucking wait till March 28th. They'll all be out and then you can sit down and plow through. options yours yeah you can do whatever you want at that point if you really want to fly through it however you want to consume it consume it well marzen this has been a blast i love bumping into you we as actors i feel like we're kind of somewhat solitary lives or can until the award shows the events that everybody goes which is the weirdest place to meet always the weirdest it's like oh hey bud hey bud and everything feels contrived a little bit a little bit well you know the most telling thing i walked away with after the golden globes this year is i just had this moment where i realized oh everyone I talked to told me I looked great and I told everyone they looked great and that's a weird thing but everyone's nervous they don't look good because they're going to be in photos and then on tv so it's like you want to comfort everyone you see you look great and they're saying you look great and then I leave and I'm like these are some of the greatest artists in the world and what we're telling each other is that we look great this is a lot I imagine that It must be insufferable.

1:23:10It's just a lot. I think it's a good note. That is what everyone's afraid of. That's the insecurity at those things. I can only handle so much of it. I wanted to go like, I'm in a tux. I don't even deserve that. I look the way I look at every one of these. I can't look good or bad. The way you feel about that is the reason why I want to rush to your side at these beds. And I'm like, this is a real human being. So it's nice to see you outside of all this BS that we do. I didn't tell you you looked great when I saw you at F1. Please don't. By the way, you always look right. I know. You don't even have to say it.

1:23:41I feel redundant to tell you. The easiest path to my heart is insult me. I can be honest. There's one thing I did think at F1 a few times. I had this thought. I was like, Marzen's kind of classy. I literally had that thought. I got you. He's like kind of dressed pretty nice at this thing. And he's got like a nice watch. I think he's classier than me. He represented a watch. That's classy as hell. Woke up in a dark room and fell into a closet. It's a race. Why am I wearing a pinstriped seersucker? Because you look rad. Why wouldn't you? All right, James. Do your buddies ever call you Jimmy? Yeah.

1:24:18Oh, okay. So can I apply? When I see you, can I call you Jimmy? You may. I don't know why or when I changed that. I mean, name was always James, but I grew up. My mother and my brother's sisters called me Jimmy. And then when I got to LA, I was in that phase where... You want to be serious. Yeah, I got to be taken seriously. So I don't want to be in the teeny bop magazine. So little Jimmy Mars. Yeah. I think the first year I was here, the projects I did do like Boogie's Diner with Jim J. Bullock, which is like a saved by the bell knockoff. It was billing as Jimmy Mars. So when I hear somebody say Jimmy, I'm like, oh, that person's known me for a long time.

1:24:56It isn't it this the most subtle way to reclaim and integrate who you were. That's what I think is sweet about it. you come here you're trying to hide who you were because you're afraid that that would expose you as not belonging here and then at a certain point you have some confidence and you go i'm going to start reintegrating the person i tried to distance myself from as a kid yeah i think that's like part of your journey as a man yeah i totally see that why am i shoving that aside oh jimmy i'm not trying to be so serious anymore and it wasn't that silly well jimmy i can't wait yeah jimmy well ds Jimmy?

1:25:30Yes, baby. All right. We'll come back. This was a blast. I absolutely will. And hopefully have my whole full voice when I return. Oh, I can't wait. The whole interview will be McConaughey. Oh, boy. You might have said that one out. Yeah, I'll probably skip that one. That wasn't riveting to you? No, I love it. I can only handle it in small chunks. She works with me every day, and I'm constantly doing somebody's voice. She can't stop. I'm like her little brother and her dad. It's very confusing. A lot of dynamics at play. I'm juggling a lot of identities. So you've got a frequency for him that you can kind of turn down.

1:26:04I do tune it fully out. And it's so obvious. I can see in her face the second I've lost her, which is quite regularly. All right. Well, be well, everyone. Check out Paradise. He is an arm care expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's got to let him have the facts. Do you feel extra fresh on your way to this award show to look extra stylish? That's a great. Because I feel like you look extra stylish. Because of my big pants. You were wearing an inclement weather jacket when you came in that you denied was a rain jacket. Look, I understand why you think it's a rain jacket.

1:26:45Because of the noise it was making. It was a shh, shh, shh. Yeah, kind of windbreakery material-ish. Yeah, yeah. I bought it vintage, so it could have been a range outfit. Oh, great. Yeah. Sustainable. Sustainable. Yeah. Doing your part. Do better. Yeah. So, BTS, I'm going from this. Thank you. You rearranged the time a couple times, which is very nice. Oh, didn't mind one bit. Because you're betrothed. Yeah. Kristen is hosting the SAG Awards this year. Correct. the Screen Actors Guild's awards. That's right. And she asked if I could come in. Once again, return. Once again, that's right. Because she was the first host ever.

1:27:312018. That's right. And so I, you know, wrote her stuff back then. And so she asked if I could come and do that. Out of retirement. Yeah, exactly. And do that for her. And of course I said, yes. So we are about to go shoot a promo for it. Right. I didn't really think about being extra stylish because it's not a fashion campaign. No, but it's, I don't know. It's a shoot. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, maybe subconsciously. Subconsciously. Yeah. New group of people. Minimally, you want to put your best foot forward. Yeah. I want to be cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm tired. Oh, great. Me too. Why are you tired?

1:28:15I'm tired because of a big ding, ding, ding. What? I started Paradise last night. This is for little Jimmy Marsden. Oh, baby Jimmy Marsden. Yeah. Okay. The first three episodes are on Hulu. Oh, okay. And I was so in. What a concept, right? Yes. I was so in. And then I panicked because I needed more. Oh. We have screeners. Yeah, yeah. We're lucky enough to have screeners. And even though it is my stance, like with Severance, that I don't, I learned, quote, learned my lesson from Only Murders in the Building. And because I watched all of those in one night. No, you didn't delay your gratification enough.

1:28:58I didn't because they only give you so many and then you have to wait a really long time. So I promised to myself I wasn't going to do that with Severance and I haven't. Good job. But with Paradise, I did. I watched all of it. All of it. I didn't know they were going to do the same thing. They always do this. It's not the end. Right. Again, I only have seven episodes. Oh, that version. I thought you were saying that the season finale ended on a cliffhanger or something without a resolution. No, there's eight episodes. We got seven. Yeah. Well, this happened, of course, with Severance. Yeah. And then we started hounding Adam.

1:29:41Well, actually, when we did the podcast, they offered to get us the remaining three. But then that never happened. Right. I mean, those are under real lock and key, I got to assume. Well, that brings me to another thing. Actually, remaining four. So anyways, we've been hounding him, leaving aggressive messages. And I think they just came in. But they came in in a different screening platform, which every time. Yeah. I know it's such a baby thing to complain about. It is. But it takes sometimes 90 minutes to sign into these screening apps because you have to use the Google Authenticator. You got to get a text.

1:30:11You got to do a magic link to another website. You're on your phone, but you realize an email has come through and you need to see the email. But you follow the link through the original email. So to go. So you need like two or three devices going at once. All to say I'm finally in on Apple screeners and it's easy. But the next batch are on a different one. Oh, OK. So that's almost been a hurdle enough for me to slow it down. Yeah. Well, not almost. It has been. I watched the first two. I'm caught up on Severance. Right. And you're not ahead at all. God, it's good. Yeah, it's a goodie. It's so good.

1:30:48But you love, though, Paradise. I love it. What a hook, right? Yeah. We ran into this problem in the episode where you can't really say anything. I know. So that's just frustrating for people. But I'll just say I watched seven episodes last night. That says a lot. Yeah. I think that's enough of a testament to how good it is. And everyone's great. He's great in it. Jimmy Marsden. Yes. Yes, of course. He really. He really. I told I was saying, you know, he's just legitimately good. He is. He is very natural and he plays that character very well. But I love that he was acknowledging. He's like, I just think I'm acting like.

1:31:29Yeah. He's like, I'm always acting. Yeah. That was really refreshing because you can also be really good, Even if you have that feeling. Yes. You can let yourself off the hook. Yeah. I don't think everyone's having the experience that Dan Lewis and, you know, some of these others are having. I know. We don't know. Maybe he feels like that, too. Dan Lewis. Yeah. Well, he is acting. I mean, he. Well, exactly. He's not even. Yeah. There's no him there. If ever there was some acting. He's morphing. He's morphing. He's channeling. He's transcending. Yeah. He's got a liberal arts education. I want to give a shout out to Lincoln.

1:32:07She they had their last soccer game last night and they had a perfect. They achieved their perfect season. Wow. Zero goals. Zero. They didn't. Zero goals. Yeah. Zero. They scored zero times and it got close. I got scared. There was a there was finally a kick on goal last night and it almost went in. I kind of panicked like, oh, don't don't mess up your record. Wow. But what's great is I think the girls, too, had a good sense of humor about it. You know, they joked about having a perfect season at this point. That's funny. Yeah. But this is tied in because a good friend of mine who works at HBO was there, and he was talking about having just watched episode eight of White Lotus.

1:32:50Oh, my God. And I had an envy. It brewed up in me. Yeah. Oh. He's so loud. He's going to be killed. Well, he's the producer. He has to watch them. Now that he's said it, he's going to be killed. This is an Easter egg for an upcoming episode. Yeah, yeah, truly. A couple episodes from now. Five or six episodes from now. So TV is doing great right now. It's doing great. We're finding we have some big shows coming back, which is a huge relief. I felt like it slowed down quite a bit there, but we got some offerings now, and I feel comforted by that. I do want to do 40 seconds of navel gazing and then I'm going to I'll table all the navel gazing for some period.

1:33:31But people, as you would probably guess, a lot of people felt very strongly with the point of view you were making. I guess it would be two fact checks ago. Aaron was previous fact check. When we had our discussion about being authentic and sharing feelings. Oh, yeah. And versus entertaining and in a respite. So, you know, people supported us on both sides. Yeah, I support us on both sides. Me too. I only want to be clear about one thing. Neither of us are pitching all sadness or all entertainment. We're both pitching some balance. Yeah. And I think most importantly, people should know there's no pressure for us to be making it anything.

1:34:17Yeah. Some people were nervous about that. my goal is for it to have the balance it's always had. And I know it's your goal too. We both have the same goal of having the balance we've always had. And then we have differing opinions on, you know, sometimes. To me, it will hopefully, and not always, but I trust that it will always strike that balance because of the nature of our dynamics. So even when there's sadness or bad things or hard things, we talk about that, but then something funny will come up or something light will come up too. And that's life. And that's true to us. And so. Okay. And then the last thing is, and I've said this before, probably in interviews and stuff, and I don't know if I've ever said it explicitly on here.

1:35:02There are people saying really heartfelt and moving things like, you have to understand, we value your perspective on this. It helps us process the thing going on. And I mean, mostly people are feeling that way about me not commenting or spending a lot of time on the election or the first week. I just want people to understand why that's my position, which is I would never want a young dude who voted for Trump, who's a sexual abuse survivor, to not feel welcome here. I would not want an addict that voted for Trump to not feel welcome here. Yeah. My I just have a certain purpose that's clear to me.

1:35:48And part of that purpose is I don't want anyone to feel unwelcome. And I think if I hunkered down on either side of the political spectrum, I would just be kind of disinviting half the people. And so I hope people understand that's where it's coming from. It's not like just an obstinance or is that the right word? Yeah. Yeah. And I want to talk about it. It's just I want everyone to feel welcome. Yeah, that makes sense to me. And if you take it from the perspective of this is sort of an AA meeting type setup, then yeah, you would never, I don't think, say you can't come here. Right. Anyway, that was my navel gazing.

1:36:27Got it. Yeah, I can move on now. Well, back to paradise. Little Jimmy's fantastic. And now I feel comfortable calling him that after watching the show. After watching the show. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did it make you want to smoke and drink? No. Well, I already drank, so I got that one down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It did not make me want to smoke. Did I tell you about one of my favorite birthday presents I got? What? From Matt and Laura. Oh. It's a wooden box with a glass face and a little hammer. And the glass says, break in case of emergency. And behind it is a pack of camel cigarettes. That's fun.

1:37:05Isn't that great? That's great. What a great gift. That's a really good hit. It really cracks me up and I like it. Yeah. And I will break it. I know. If they go, the meteor is going to hit Earth in eight hours. Yeah. I'm going to rip them out. I know. I've been thinking about what to do in the last hour. Oh, uh-huh. If some bad event is happening. Yeah. Do I try to get to safety? Well, this like, Jess and I were talking about, or maybe we talked about it here also, But during the fires, we were thinking, you know, who always said with Josh on Josh Gad's episode, like, who are you on the Titanic?

1:37:44Which person are you? Right, right, right, right. Are you the person who's really trying to figure out how to get off? Are you the person helping arrange people to get off? Are you those people who just they're like drinking wine as it's going down? I mean, we sort of said that was going to be us. I was like, I'll be playing the cello still. Yeah. So I wonder, I wonder. What you would do. What I would do. And if I'm going to try to like save myself or just be like, you know what? Good ride. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been a great ride. For Eric and I, this topic comes up in, for Eric and I, it's always so simple, so clear to us.

1:38:27How do you want to die? Because you want to OD on opiates because you'd be feeling very blissful and then you just want to wake up. Yeah. Yeah. That's probably. Most addicts kind of have the same. I hear people, well, I guess I'd want to, I guess get shot. That's fast. Or, you know, die, fall off a building. No. I don't want to drown. I'm like, what about a nice, gentle send off? I think that's the preferred. I kind of agree. Oh, I've done some doctoring on myself. Oh. As I tend to do. And I think I was complaining about it in the last fact check. I've been seemingly sick for like eight weeks, something like this.

1:39:00And then when we were in Mexico, the elevation's quite high, so my nose was kind of bloody and dry. And then when I got back, it was really, really bad. And so I was like, what cold do I have? I was thinking, thinking, thinking. And all of a sudden, it occurred to me yesterday morning. I'm like, oh, my gosh, you know what might be happening? I started thinking of my nasal passages like an anal fissure. Oh. Like I blew it out so bad. Honk, honk, honk. You know, I'm really going at it. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Oh, yeah. Way too aggressively. We're like, I had my eye bulged out at one point in Mexico.

1:39:37Oh, God. It's like, we got to throttle back on this exhaust because it's pushing on your eyes or whatever. So it occurred to me, maybe I just like, I have a lot of damage in there. The body's sending white blood cells to heal it, which is snot. And then I'm honking that out a second. And I'm just in this endless loop of trying to repair. So yesterday I'm like, You're no longer allowed to blow your nose. And Monica, of all the things I've done, quit cigarette, you know, anything. This one's crazy hard. What about. Because I've been blowing. It's definitely a tick now. It's definitely like any time I feel it, I have to do it.

1:40:16Yeah. It's a thing. Yeah. And I have to just not blow my nose. I, of course, did have to blow my nose because it's still building. That's what I'm saying. How about twice a day? I probably hit it about six times yesterday. But down from probably 600 the day before. Yeah. And I'm only allowed to basically go like, hmm. If I have to blow harder than that to get it out, I'm not allowed. Oh, I see. So that's. I can even just talk a lot and say, hopefully I'll just. And are you worried stuff's going to start coming out? Of course. Yeah. And guess what? It's not. And already it's stopped dripping as much.

1:40:55Wow. So I really think thus far this diagnosis might be on. I think that's good. Yeah. Is it bad to have tissues right there? That feels very taunting. Right. Like a little mirror and a straw. Yeah. It's not very. You should move that out. My old friend. I'd be so happy to say goodbye to that old friend. I mean, we've talked about this. You are obsessed with the tissue box. Like for you, that is an indicator of whether it's a nice hotel or not. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yes. And I've never noticed it. I never notice it. It's also it is reared itself in like photos I'll take in post.

1:41:35And I think people sometimes call out like I it looks a little perverse to always have a box of tissues with you. Oh, my. It looks like I'm always about to or just finished self pleasuring. Do you have a deviated septum? Yeah. Go to show what an addict I am. I can even get addicted to like blowing my nose. I am proud of you for noticing and stopping. And I will say I'm grateful. It's a lot to cut around. And on video, it wasn't an issue before, but now we're seeing it. And so I do have to tell, I do have to make it clear, You're like, never be on a shot. You can never be on a shot when Dax is blowing his nose.

1:42:27I've made that clear. Okay, that's one of the edicts to the editors. Okay. It did just make me think you almost never see anyone blow their nose in a movie. Yeah. Unless they're playing super sick. Sure. And it's very achoo-y. And they're over the top. They're like tongue acting. They leave their nose. Yeah, they're like this. They're like this. Uh-oh. Oh, honey, did you bring up? did you bring the their no their voice is always like that no i did i was on i wasn't able to stop and get it yeah you know it's more of a booked it i booked it oh i don't thank you that was good and occasionally you'll see this too you'll see in a movie you'll see a woman going to a person then of course she's very sad she's very sad but i can't think of a time i've seen robert de niro blow his nose.

1:43:15Is it really unsettling when you've seen it on video? Because obviously I've never seen it. Is it like my drumming face? I don't like it. It's a bad look. I mean, no one wants the it's like you just said, we don't see it. So it's very, it is like, I'm not supposed to see that. Right. It's like someone wiping their butt. And it feels like oh wow, he just like really just doesn't give a fuck. Okay, sure. There's like some subtext to it. Like he just really doesn't care. But that's not it. Of course, it's just that you're in the zone. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure it's going to start rolling out of my nose.

1:43:52But it is a I have noticed and I do think it's gotten worse, worse or more. I wouldn't say worse, but I think it's OK to label something worse. More. And so I'm I'm I am personally delighted. The human battle just doesn't quit. Yeah. It won't end. I want to give you a compliment. I think you often in life come to the right conclusions about things. But I do think it takes you a long time. But I always. In this case, like two months. I got to be uncomfortable and miserable for a while. Right. I just think you do get there. Like I have I do know this as a pattern. Again, I was talking to Jess, obviously.

1:44:40Well, I did something sort of mean to him because he's my brother. Right. So, wow, this is such a ding, ding, ding. He has this amazing job. He runs this business with this other guy and it's a service business. He teaches he goes to restaurants and teaches people how to give perfect service. And it's incredible. And it's doing so well. I'm so proud of him. That's great. It's really awesome. But, you know, when he does these like classes for them and he's just like it's very like animated and loud. And it's an improv class. Yes. And he's very on for all of it. So he is struggling with his voice.

1:45:18Oh, that's great. And and he's been complaining about it a lot. And so I said, well, what are we going to do? we should like, you know, Grether's. I also offered that here. Throat coat. Throat coat, maybe a medicine, but he's just been complaining a lot about it, understandably. This is where my impatience comes in. Sure. We were going to hang out. So we FaceTimed and the first thing he said was like, oh, my voice. And I said, well, I can't hear that again.

1:45:52and i'm lucky i'm lucky but i also this is the conversation i want to get to i know he can take that uh-huh and he did he just like sat there for a second and and he said okay i'm fixed and i said i'm not saying that but also like we do need to figure it out yeah right or Or we can't complain anymore. It's time to get into solution. Yes, exactly. This is one thing I love about him. He like brought that up as a positive thing. And he was and he said, I feel I feel really lucky that you feel you can be that way with me or say a thing that is true. Yeah. And he said, do you do that with everyone?

1:46:34Yeah. 75 % is the same, but there's like a 25 % that's adapting to who I'm around. Yeah. So I'm not saying that phrase to everyone. For sure. And, but I would still. I would argue it's, it's pretty gendered too. Like I think your dad gets it, your brother gets it, I gets it, Jess gets it, and yeah, your mom gets it. My mom gets it. So that's four to one. Family. Yeah. I guess I would say, although I would never say that to Kristen. I feel that. Right. Right. I've made this point before. I am able to speak to young men in a way I just wouldn't. I wouldn't speak to, you know, previously, I think I've told a story.

1:47:22It's like my friend who I adore, Jay, who's like wash my razors and stuff. Yeah. And he would list all this stuff. And I just want to tell him that, listen, this is how you'll win in life. Just make shit disappear. don't try to get any approval for it just make problems go away and you will fucking own a company right like i'll just but i wouldn't i can just be that way to dudes i don't know well because we were talking about another friend who i won't name he was asking would you say this to her it was a girl yeah and i said no definitely not that that person is is very sensitive like I know them and I but I would say something.

1:48:02I would say like, well, what can we do? Like, what can we do? How can I help something like that? So I'm still the point is the same. Yes. You just have different bedside manner. But do you think you do that? Do you do you think you're 75 percent? One thing and then you adapt or do you think you're like 100 always? I was just talking to this. it's adjacent to this, which is no, I think I'm I think I'm kind of overly soft when I I will always say my thing. It's not like I'm I'm a people pleaser. Yeah. But I have been in a position many times where I have to give notes to people who work for me.

1:48:40So I have gotten very good, I think, at laying out notes in a in a positive way to the degree that one of the first habits I had to break when I was messing around with A.I. is I would go, generate an image of a van in the blah, blah, blah with the blah, blah, blah. And it would come up. And then I would go, I swear to God, I was doing this like the first 20 times I use it. I was like, really great start. This works. This works. This works. Now could you add blank? And after about five, I was like, oh, I don't need to fucking say any of that to this thing. Let's go like, make the wheels bigger.

1:49:18Yeah. Next thing. Make them taller. No, but I was saying great job to AI. Yeah.

1:49:28Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

1:49:40That brings me to something that I'm afraid to talk about because I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings in my life. Okay. But I also find the punchline of this is just too comical to not say in public. Okay. So there is a bit of a gender divide right now in our pod about how nervous men are about the air quality and how nervous the women are. And I know there's a lot of chains going on about different air purifiers and whatnot. And so Kristen's quite concerned about the air quality. Yeah, she is. She's reading a lot about it. I thank her for that, for our family's safety. And also every day more air purifiers arrive to the to the degree that when you enter our house, it's like going into the reefer unit at a Costco.

1:50:34It's like it's we've got we got six of them that filter out this particulate at zero one. We've got a handful in the corners that are doing point zero zero three. They're all running. it's like there's a hum in the house one of them was on auto and in the middle of the night i think it thought there was a biological weapon went off in the bedroom because all of a sudden it was like there was a jet engine going on i was like what is it and then i'm blind and i'm trying to fucking turn it off and i got so this has all been building and then there's some concern about water that's gotten in the water all of this this this has been escalating and there's more and more air purifiers.

1:51:15And we're trying to navigate it. She knows I'm not. Yeah. She'll even say like, I'm afraid to bring this up. Right. So it's, but we're getting through it and I think it's going pretty well. And then I had overheard that, you know, we have these uhlers to cool you down in the bed. Yeah. And I had heard Carly was going through and running peroxide through all of them, but I use distilled water. So I'm not actually nervous about it. So when I saw that this was going on I was like you know you just stay right out of it so last night I go to go to bed yeah and um I turn on the ular and it's making insane noises I don't know what I'm hearing all kinds of weird new noises and then I'm realizing oh the the little water capsule wasn't set in correctly so I get that going and and now I realize oh it's out of water because maybe the peroxide thing so I'm filling it with water and it just keeps making all these noises all these noises and I can't figure out what's going on and then at some point i can hear gushing water oh no and oh god i'm like oh my what's going on and i pick up my pillow and where it goes into the bladder that has been torn at some point in this cleaning okay and it has just pumped a gallon of water onto my bed oh no Oh.

1:52:36And I was really tired. Yeah. And I saw that and poor Kristen saw that. And I'm sure she immediately was like, oh, no. Of course. And I just walked into the bathroom and I leaned over the sink. And I said to myself, she's trying her hardest to keep the family safe. That's right. What I was really screaming in my head is like, just leave me, leave my things out of it. Just go crazy. But I just, I really have three. I need my uller and my coffee in the morning. So I was being, I went to self-pity and then I said, stop, stop, stop. This is a human being who's trying her hardest to keep everyone healthy.

1:53:24Yes, she is. And then I came back in and I was very pleasant. And I said, I'm going to go sleep downstairs. Oh. Because my bed was soaking wet. Of course. And I walked downstairs and I realized I can't sleep in the guest room because that's where whiskey's fucking cages and whiskey wakes up all night long barking. And then I said, no, I'm going to go outside. Outside? Yeah. So I slept in the guest house. Oh, oh, oh, oh, okay. Yeah. Yes. So I was sleeping in the guest house and I was thinking, maybe I could claim this as my house. Okay. Now, listen, listen, I want to say something to you. Okay.

1:54:11I understand all of this. Both sides. Yeah, of course. I think, and I, this probably isn't the place to say it, but I do feel safer saying it here. I think you're feeling a real lack of control in your life right now. Oh, well, yeah, yeah, yeah. From a lot of angles. Uh-huh. And so these things are very heightened. Yes. And anything is very heightened. And especially in our personal things get very heightened when anyone feels like they have a lack of control. But especially you, because that is a, that's a, that's hard for you. Yeah, you're right. And I felt like I lost control of my bed. Exactly.

1:54:57Oh, my God, I can't. I can't even count on sleeping in my bed now. That's where it goes. Exactly. That's the thing. Like, again, understandably, that's like the bedrock of your trauma is not having control. So, you know, flooded bed where people who don't have that background are just going to be like, oh, they'll be annoyed. Like, oh, now I have to deal with this. This is so annoying. You're probably not going to go to. Well, now I don't even have a bed. That's mine. I have no control over my bed. I have all this stuff and no control over any of it. And I live with dogs and I don't want to. I don't get to control whether I have allergies.

1:55:38And yeah, I started. You're right. I start compiling. But it's not out of nowhere. It's because there's been a lot of stuff that is priming you for this. It's just going to get triggered easily until we can let some of that go. Yeah, yeah. I don't think it's a horrible idea to contact Mark.

1:56:02It can't hurt. It's never hurt. It's only hell. It's literally never hurt. I'm just saying, I see why. And that's coupled. It's all coupled. The timing's perfectly. I even said this out loud yesterday. Said it out loud. I'm like, there's some huge growth around the corner, but I can't feel it because it's also, it's all coinciding. Maybe I already said this with me writing about something I was never going to write about. I don't think I knew that. I'm at the point in the memoir where I'm having to write about the thing I was never going to write about. Oh my gosh. Like I don't mind saying I was molested.

1:56:37I had no intention to ever detail to anybody ever on this planet what happened. Details. And so I've been for maybe eight days. Oh my. Going through that every morning, you know? Wow. Yeah, that's a lot. So I think that's in the stew. Of course. I think being made fun of in all these award shows is in the stew. I think there's, I think the fires are in the stew. I think the fans and the air purifiers. Yeah, I think you're right. I think there's a lot, like I'm spending time revisiting that apex of. Yeah. Loss of will. The impetus of that, really. Yeah. And then all these other things are coinciding in a very sim-like, impossibly coincidental way.

1:57:21Yeah, January. Way. Yeah. And so, yeah, I'm hanging on at times by a thread. But I'm very proud to say I haven't had any kind of blowups. That's great. I haven't had any fantasies about escaping. Maybe going to Nashville to get my bus. Oh, yeah. That was going to be like two days of, you know, where I'm just driving a vehicle I can control. That seemed very appealing. But I flagged it as.

1:58:14you're just trying to escape. of the orders. Yeah, maybe you should do it at night. But then sleep is bad. But I've been waking up. I've been having like two hour chunks where I'm up at night too. Yeah, I mean, growing pains, I guess. But also it is kind of funny that you just brought up the fires because during COVID, at the beginning of COVID, you've said it that your goal is to reduce panic with all of us who are panicked or, you know, like heightened, heightened. Yeah. And, and you're trying to bring that down. You, in some ways in doing that, you're like, it's not, you don't, you're not saying it's not that big of a deal, but like, that's like the energy, right?

1:59:00Yeah. And then, you know, a year and a half goes by and you said, and you have the recognition like, oh, that did affect me. Yeah. Uh huh. Even though I was like, it's not that big of a deal. I'm not. It did. And so when the fires were happening and to me, it was like a little tangential, like they were. It was a similar. Yeah, yeah. It felt identical. Yeah, exactly. The masks and the evacuees. Oh, yeah. And the fear versus the panic versus it's not that big of a deal. I thought like, I mean, in some time, there's going to be a realization that that had an impact. I totally agree with you, but I don't know if I think it was COVID that scared me.

1:59:47Yeah. But I do think living with people that had heightened emotions that were scaring me. Yeah. Did have a pretty big impact on me. Well, no, but even just like the whole experience of it, the isolation, the time together that was so intense, the unknown. How long is it going to be like all these things that we just all lived with and and dealt with very differently? And I do think some people immediately know the feeling. Right. It's like they have the feeling minute one. Yeah. And I and. That's true. You're in a zone. I didn't cry over my dad to like four months later. Yeah. It takes a minute.

2:00:32I didn't cry over the USO tour till I was telling my mom about it when I was out of the situation. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe it's just now it's like catching up a little bit. I heard that dude shared in the meeting on Monday that he has this weird come down. He's like, oh, I don't know what the fuck to do now. I knew how to get the hoses out. and I knew how to do this and I knew how to do that. Now I don't really know. Yeah. This, you know, the air quality. I can't get a hose out. I don't know. Right, right. What can I do other than buy a couple dozen? I think you have some you could lend. Oh, speaking of other, something else uncontrollable.

2:01:11Well, diarrhea. What? Diarrhea. No, I don't want to talk about that. My friend's house was robbed. Yeah, tell me about that. I'm quite curious what happened. Were they home? Completely unrelated. No, not home. Thank goodness. But also on purpose, I'm sure. Like, I think these people probably were staking out the joint. Yeah, yeah. Tasing the joint. Exactly. And so they knew they weren't there. That's preferred. Of course, yes. But unrelated to the fires, like, they were out of town for just a night. and what's really such a weird sad bummer is she had just put all her irreplaceable items into a safe because of the fires obviously yeah and they assume there was valuables and they took the whole safe that's what's tricky about a safe i know you know what the move is probably to just leave it unlocked.

2:02:16Yeah. If you're just going to put memorabilia in there, like leave it unlocked so they can see. So you could still grab it easily, I guess. And if there's a fire, you hit lock. But while it sits there, you leave it. That's unlocked. Because it doesn't need to be locked to be fire retardant. Yeah. It can have the door shut without you having locked it. Hmm. That's a good idea. Maybe I know. Because I was going to say, I don't really understand modern robberies because there's nothing to fence. Unless people have some crazy jewelry collection or a bunch of watches. But like all this stuff people stole in the 80s and 90s is like valueless in the secondhand.

2:02:59You can't sell a 55 inch TV for more than$100. Like I'm not sure what they think they're going to get. I think the jewelry is the big thing. And yeah, watches. I mean, that's what they stole. And she even said, you know, you can have that stuff. Yeah. You can like she there was one valuable piece of jewelry in there. That was her wedding bracelet that was like gifted from a family member, you know. Yeah. But the rest of it is all like definitely not things the robbers want. And I said, maybe you could put a note on the door saying, if you stole my stuff, can you just bring back these items, please?

2:03:44That's sad. Yeah. But she's doing okay. And is the husband now wanting to like arm himself and get a heat? He's not, but of course - Are they rolling with it or are they - I mean, they're doing okay, but they, I mean, this is always what happens in any of these circumstances where there's violation. You feel guilty. Right. Like you did something wrong. You did this and that caused this, or you didn't do this. And now this happened. And it's the same. It's like, we're wired that way. I assume. Well, because you want to learn from your mistakes. Yeah. I know, but it's so unfair. Yeah. You should be able to recognize it without the shame.

2:04:22Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think they might. They're both struggling a little bit with that. We're reading the new Unstoppable books by Yuval Harari at night to the kids. Uh-huh. And by Wee Christens reading it to them and I listen and sometimes fall asleep. Nice. But he was describing a scene where the sapiens might have seen a group of Neanderthals approach. Uh-huh. And because, you know, Neanderthals were there and then they all, they went extinct. Uh-huh. Or some got absorbed into our genes. Right. But in general, they were killed out. They were out competed by sapiens. And they were he was setting the describing the scene.

2:05:01But also in the book, there's the Dovion. I can't say the word, but these Dovion people that were on an island. So they got smaller. Oh, really tiny, like two feet nine. OK, this is it. You strike for a future fact. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I'm just laying there listening. And I was thinking to myself how predictable we are. If you're a group of 100 sapiens and you see these Neanderthals, you see 12 of them and they're bigger than you. You're scared. Yeah. And so you try to neutralize this thing. If the Denovians had rolled up. Yeah. They would have probably been kind to them. Yeah. And he even talks about often they kill off the Neanderthal parents, but then they would care for the kids or babies of the Neanderthals.

2:05:50Interesting. And I'm like, I was like, girls, this is the like, this is the crux of violence is fear. Yes. You know? Yeah. And if you see little people walk up on the scene, you're like, oh, gitchy, gitchy, goo, want some food? Come in here. Unless they are called demons or something. Like they make them a different type of threat. They could be Miss. Yeah. His outcasts. Magicians. Yeah. Evil magic powers. Yeah, exactly. So fact, James, the tallest and smallest women. Women. Yes, yes. Oh, yes, yes, yes. I saw them again. They came up organically in my feed. Hanging out again. Same stuff we already saw, but it was back.

2:06:33I think it's gaining popularity. I hope. Yeah. The world's tallest woman is Ramesa Gelgi. Beautiful. Yeah. I don't know how to say it. And the world's shortest woman is Yodi Omji. Which, again, it really sounds like a short person's name. I know. I know. Well, it just sounds cute. Yodi. And like Yoda. Right. And Yoda's very, very small. Yeah. And to be fair, it's J-Y-O-T-I. So I don't actually know. It could be Jodi. Yeah. Or G-O-T or something. Yeah. They met in London in November for afternoon tea. Ugh. And Rumesa is 7 feet 0.7 inches. And Yodi is 2 feet 0.7 inches. I think it's just a miracle that they're exactly 5 feet apart.

2:07:27I know. That they're both 0.7. It's like how me and you have the exact same IQ. Yes. It makes no sense. Suspicious. And this was from the Guinness through this. Guinness World Records, obviously. Yeah. They're the only ones that could ethically host this kind of thing. Yeah. If it was Barling and Brothers, Barling and Bailey. Barnum and Bailey. Barnum and Bailey. They are not allowed. You go, come on, guys. Yeah. Knock this off. That shit's. True. We got to retire that. That's true. But Guinness, you're like, get them together. Yeah. A couple of world record holders. I know. I wonder what the volume difference was in tea they drank.

2:08:07That interests me. They're so awesome. And we think they look like us. They do. They look quite a bit like us. Ramesa looks like you and Yodi looks like me. Uh-huh. And we desperately, although I don't know if this puts us in the Barnum and Bailey category. Oh, no, no. We desperately want them to come to the garage and have tea. Yeah. So that we can all stand in a perfect linear line going up. That's right. From Yodi to Monica to Daxi to Ramesa. Yeah. Well, that would be a stunning photograph. I agree. You also wanted to do boxes where we all reach the same height. That's right. Where we're all exactly 7.7 inches tall.

2:08:52But we said that's a little scary for Yodi. It's quite scary for Yodi. But what I like about that proposition is that her box will be exactly your height. Yeah. That's really cool. So you're three feet taller than her. And I'm only one foot taller. Ramay's is one foot taller than me. Right. So to be honest, we do have to invite someone who is four feet tall just to make it fucking perfect. Amy, Calvin. Calvin. Oh. That actually works color-wise. it's a gradient. Calvin's a beautiful transition. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But he's on the wrong side. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Because Ramisi is wider than me, which is hard to do.

2:09:39Right. She's wider than you. Yodi looks similar to my coloring. She looks just similar to you, period.

2:09:50she you know we were discussing last fact check if you were a great artist i'd love to see what you see in the mirror yeah and if i was an incredible artist and i drew a picture of you might find that it looks a lot like yodi yeah god this reminds me of the other day i was with anna and we were this is no offense to anyone but we we were at a crosswalk and she said is that you? And I looked over and there was a woman there. She was wearing a mask, so I couldn't see her full face, but I think she was wearing a mask. Maybe I added that in my head. Oh, wow. This doesn't sound like the clearest memory.

2:10:32Yeah. Well, it was traumatic because I saw it and I was like, oh, and then she got closer and I was like, I don't. Yeah, but that's a common occurrence i know but that's upsetting it's upsetting you didn't like the comp i didn't right but also in anna's defense i have the experience quite often where you see someone from a distance and as they get closer you start realizing oh i i this is a different person than i saw okay but she didn't say oh actually not but maybe she got in her head she got in her head She went like, oh, shit, that was a bad comp now that she's closer. But now what do I say?

2:11:20She could have said, oh, actually, never mind. She says, bad comp. Bad comp. That's all you have to say. Yeah, bad comp. Also, maybe it's right. It's probably a good comp. That's the, this is where things get tricky. I'm a good comp for Yodi. Okay. Now, does yawning help ear clearing? Yes, it does. It opens the eustachian tubes, which allows air to flow into the middle ear and equalize pressure, popping your ears. So that would have worked if he had just tried it. Yeah, he was being insolent. He was. Can a chihuahua and a mastiff have an offspring? Great Dane is what I found. People are most curious.

2:12:04Yeah, chihuahua and Great Dane. It says highly unlikely to produce viable offspring because of their extreme size difference. making natural mating nearly impossible, imposing significant health risks for both the mother and potential puppies. Therefore, responsible breeders would never attempt such a cross. But it is technically possible. Yes, and we would want it to be a male Chihuahua impregnating a female Great Dane. Because a Great Dane offspring inside of a Chihuahua uterus could be lethal. Exactly. Also, the boy, it would be almost impossible for the great name male to enter the chihuahua to stoop down low enough to get the penis.

2:12:47Yeah, it would have to. But a little chihuahua, if a great name was taking a nap on its side. Uh-huh. Also, it consented. Let's just say it consented. Sure, sure, sure. I'm drowsy, but whatever you want to do while I'm out. And then it was laying perfectly on the side. It could definitely get up there. It's laying on the ground. And it's the, oh, the chihuahua is the penis, right? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So the great Dane female or gal is laying on her side. Or back. No, her side. Oh. And then the little chihuahua just comes up and hump, hump, hump. He's at the right height if she's laying on her side.

2:13:21Oh, I see. I see what you're saying. And then she could probably have 13, 14 pups in the litter and not even notice. Yes. These little tiny pups. She just thinks they're little mosquito bites. Like a heavy, heavy flow. Oh, wow. Yeah. So if it's got to be done, that's what we recommend. Yes. Update. I am leaning more and more, but don't hold me to this, but I'm leaning more and more towards eventually potentially getting a dog. Wow. I know. Wow. When I move into my house. Yeah. I think that's a great idea. I think I will feel safer. Yep. Get a big boy. Yeah, a big boy. um erica and charlie have been fostering this um german shepherd yep and a very very smart dog even a puppy is very smart they're great dogs i'm terribly allergic to their hair but yeah my my mom's dog breezy which who i loved and i love pee pee yeah pee pee but boy they shed like a mother and when I be at my mom's house I couldn't breathe well I don't want shedding get a doodle get some kind of a doodle but are they gonna protect well that's a good question I need one that is nice and a killer yeah a reformed bad I think German shepherds are that yeah they are but I don't my house is gonna be so pretty I cannot have it covered in hair oh and they fucking shed so but you got to get something that doesn't shed back to the drawing board Yeah.

2:14:58Okay. You said the fewest among the Armchair Anonymous callers are from Oklahoma. I'm not going to second that. Can't substantiate that claim. No. The house that James had his party, his 50th birthday party. This is the episode. Yes, this is the episode. That was hilarious because we were talking about surprise parties and 50th birthday parties and yours was in the works. Yes, mine was a couple days out. Yeah. Uh, James Goldstein, the Sheetz Goldstein residence is the home that he had the party. That's a big iconic home in LA. Gorgeous place. Yeah. Oh, the, the phobia of getting sued is Lytica phobia.

2:15:41That makes a ton of sense. Lytica phobia. Nick Nolte is not from Oklahoma. He's from Omaha. Okay. Easy mistake. And Brad Pitt was born in Shawnee, Oklahoma. Congratulations, Shawnee. I know. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Would you rather be known as the town that produced the tallest woman in the world, the shortest woman in the world, or Brad Pitt? Tallest. Same. Yeah. I don't know why. It's the rarest. Yeah. And I just imagine you could put a statue in town for that person. Oh, and it would draw people? If you did the shortest person, you'd miss it. If you wanted to break stereotypes, the move would be to put a statue of the tallest woman next to the statue of the tiniest man.

2:16:24Yeah. that was your goal yeah i like that and calvin in the middle um all right all right love you