Josh Gad Returns

27:18Do you think there was another world in which you were born maybe like 20 years earlier that you ended up on NPR? Or do you think your career would have gone stern, like before podcasts? I could answer, but I don't trust what the answer would be. I think my soul and heart always wanted to be NPR. But I grew up in an area where toxic masculinity was the currency. I didn't have a dad and I was doing all the things. So I would like to believe, yes, I would have become Ira Glass. But the truth is, I probably would have tried to be a knockoff Howard Stern. Right. Yeah, not as good as Howard Stern. So I've just through many years been able to finally pursue and embrace the person the little boy wanted to be and not necessarily the aggro dude that was sending a message to everyone not to try to hurt me.

28:01It's still there. Oh, yeah. As someone who edits, I think it's more Stern than it is NPR in a great way. Who doesn't love Stern? But you know what's great about Stern, too? I think like Dax, Stern could have ended up easily on NPR. I think Stern has the capacity and the skill set to be equally riveting on NPR. He's choosing his authentic honesty. Correct. I love NPR. I don't want to be disparaging, but that's more curated. And Stern is very wet. NPR has very wet mouths. Oh, ew. When you listen to NPR, it's a very moist. Don't be upset about it. It's an observation, but you know, I'm right. Yeah.

28:40There's like a quality that's very intimate and very wet. Yes, I admire. They're like great comedians who they're pacing so slow and they're not scared. They talk so slow and monotone and they're not worried at all. They're losing people. In fact, the more boring is the more into it I am. Yes. But what I think you're highlighting, which is worth highlighting, is our heroes. They were Trojan horses. Letterman came with the promise of irreverent, provocative comedy. But what you stayed for and fell in love with is you were like, oh, I think he's always smarter than the person he's talking to. Did you ever do Letterman?

29:14Yeah. He was the one host who always intimidated me. Oh, it's so scary. Because you know he's smarter. This was the same thing being on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. When I had to sit and pitch something to Jon, I have never been more intimidated in my life. That's so scary. He scares me. He's the smartest man in every room and he just knows better than you know what's funny and what's going to work and what is not going to work. Yeah. And how to articulate it all. And the delivery. Somehow he's confrontational without ever feeling like a bully. He's magic. But Stern's the same thing. You come for him making fun of Ronnie, but really it's the intelligence that keeps you there for a long time.

29:54And Conan, Conan's so insanely smart. It's crazy. So he's making dumb, dumb jokes, but you know, there's this intelligence behind it. And I think for me, that's the appeal of all those guys. Yes, I agree. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

30:19so i went back we're almost exactly at five years since you were here last time is that right would you have thought that no i don't think about the show very much sure yeah of course i mean i don't remember your family's life if i said how long ago were you here what answer would you oh man i don't want to say goodbye to my family. You better get this right. I better get this right. No, I think it's the perfect one. This has become very ominous, this episode. Yeah, five years. That feels right. But I remember doing a guest spot or another appearance. You've done Christmas with us. That's what I did.

30:53Then that was after. So that's why I feel like it hasn't been five years because you invited me like today as a last minute sort of filler. Gad is good for filler episodes. No, no. Can I be honest with you? Just to alleviate any shadow talk you're having. I said to my wife, I'm fucked. I don't really know what to do. We had two episodes that were going to easily come out because I was going to record them on Thursday. And I don't know what to do. I'm like, who's in town and who would even be willing? So we start thinking. And then I walk by on our kitchen table. Your book is sitting. And I go, well, fuck.

31:26Gad's got to be promoting this book. Call him. It wasn't let's go to the end of the list. It was like God, Gad, set this book on my fucking dining room table. And I was like, oh, duh, he's got a book to promote. He should be in anyways. So was it pre-pandemic? Yeah, February 20th. Oh, good lord. Yeah, it was right before your birthday. Oh, my God. Right before the pandemic hit and right in the middle of a fire. Can't wait to see you when the dinosaurs come out of the ocean and start cobbling up people. I'm really concerned about my third appearance on this show. I don't know where we go, where it's going to be.

31:57Aliens. Live from the set of hell, here's Josh Gett. From the bowels of hell. Can I tell you what I love about you? You are so fast and witty and fun. And I am. I don't want to label it competitive, but I'm not going to let someone operate at 120 miles an hour while I'm next to them going 60. It's just not in my nature. That's why you case their cars. That's why you know everything you need to know about them so you can hurt them if they try. You think so fast and you're so funny that it brings out the best side. But I'm not an expert in anything. That's not true. Am I comedy? That whole fucking forensic NFL bullshit I was learning about.

32:32Isn't that crazy? What a nerdy, like I'm reading words I've never read before. Like I talk about in my book, I thought it was the chopping up of dead bodies for investigative purposes. And instead, it's actually a thing that high schoolers do, which is another word for speech and debate. And so I'll get stopped today. Not today, because. Today we're in the middle of something. There's bigger fish to fry today. But maybe next month again, people will be willing to come up to me and say, I know you from high school. but people watch my high school videos from speech and debate and forensics. Well, you're a three-time national champ.

33:05I'm a three-time national champ. You have more respect for me than you've ever had. I really do. Because she's a two-time national champ. Are you? Well, state. I'm a two-time state champ. Cheerleading. I never did that. Yeah, competition cheerleading. But it's in your list of things. But I understand how hard it is to do. Cheerleading? No, just winning anything at that level when you're in high school. So I didn't make the cheer team. But you tried? Multiple times. In his book, he lays out the options for a high schooler and he's like, OK, the jocks are the athletes not going to happen. Pretty accurate.

33:34Cheerleading. I just don't fit in the outfits, you said. Yeah. And then Model UN, insufferable. And then you get to forensics. And so like I fit that because it's got a performative element to it. Never learned how to play chess. Still to this day, don't know how to play chess. I would have been the kind of guy that played chess, but nobody taught me how. is what not having a father around does is you don't learn things like love of cars, how to play chess. I missed all of that. So I was like, oh, speech and debate. That feels like something I can do. A lot of how I fell into this was through that world.

34:09Well, that's another thing that not having a father around will do. It will make you a performer and a comedian. A hundred percent. It really will. I'm so glad that you start the book in the way you do. First of all, it's very, very well written. Did you write it? No, chat GPT. Okay. Everything. God, they got your voice. They really do. They have it down. It's really, really well written. But you start with your personal story, which of course starts with your parents. And we touched on it last time, but your dad's almost out of a movie. Tell people about where your dad came from. We've had this conversation, but every time it surprises you.

34:41Well, the Columbia part was new to me. The Emerald Trade. It is out of a movie. My dad was a Jew born in Afghanistan. Which was maybe their third or fourth stop. Correct. They were nomads. You can actually trace my lineage back to one of the original tribes of Israel, the Gad tribe. They were just going from place to place and being told, no, you are not welcome here. And surprisingly, Afghanistan, which seems like a great place for Jews, turned out not to be. Yeah, that's what I always think about as Jewish. Yeah, it's like, yeah. My father got into precious jewels along with his brothers. In Israel.

35:15They then moved to Israel when he's 12 and he learns to cut diamonds there. When you're 12 years old, that's a great, great way to make a living. Yeah. And so by day he was doing that. And by night he was a bodybuilder. Not what I'm expecting. Nope. And I have a picture in there, I think, of my dad just ripped. I mean, he looked like Venice Beach Schwarzenegger. Really crazy. That's who we talked about last time. He looks like Kumail. His body had just been unveiled five years ago. Right, from Marvel. He looked like Marvel era Kumail. Does Kumail still look like my dad? Yeah, I've been texting with him nonstop about our bodies.

35:49he's my only outlet to send shirtless photos of myself anywhere really i can't send them to do you think kumail would welcome me sending him shirtless he'd love it myself we'd love the mail form all right i'm gonna send him you should no i'm giving you brandon's number from the lAPD and then kumail's it's all on a chain oh my god the lAPD buddy would be like get me the fuck off this chain so anyway my dad and his brothers end up moving to the united states and they decide to start an emerald business. My father moves to Columbia. They own emerald mines. In the 80s, at the peak of Pablo Escobar.

36:24I remember traveling to Columbia at the age of four, and I just remember seeing armed people all around my father and just Uzis, like automatic weapons, not even semis and just thinking to myself wait is this what everyone's dad does i was so confused all my friends fathers were doctors or lawyers in south florida and my dad was literally in the middle of the jungles of columbia surrounded by dangerous people he was always a larger than life guy when i was growing up my parents got divorced when i was six and i talk about my relationship after that. But what I also talk about in the book, which we've never spoken about was I haven't seen my dad in about 20 years.

37:11And I get a call one day while I'm doing Gutenberg, which you were so gracious enough to come to. So much fun. And my dad is in New Jersey and he says, I'd love to come see your show. This is like a couple of years ago. This is last year. Oh my God. And I said, okay, I think he's on his third or fourth family now. And I said, come alone. i'll send a car for you and why don't you stay the night wow that's nice and i was very anxious about it and he comes to the theater i'm looking for him in the audience i don't see him are you like eight years old a hundred percent it's a halloween night andrew and i after the show decide to dress up as the mommy dearest characters he's the fade down away character i'm the daughter Is he holding a coat hanger?

37:58Uh-huh. Yeah. And I look at Andrew after the show and I said, I need you to come with me. I'm very nervous about this. So we go out, both dressed as women. My father's never seen me on stage in my life. Wow. Even as a kid, he was not the dad who came to my shows. Right. So this is a first time my father's ever seen me on stage. I come out and I see a man that I know immediately and yet don't recognize at all. It was both exhilarating and really painful. I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how to interact. He looked frailer than I remember. He's pretty old, right? He's in his late seventies, but the gregarious person that I am, that's from my father.

38:45Yeah. I think about my dad as this invincible figure, a force of nature. And he's not that. So Andrew is amazing, sort of helping me navigate it. I get in the car with my dad. He's hard of hearing. English is his like third language. So he's repeating to me that he was telling everybody that he was sitting next to that I'm his son and he was so proud. But also I could tell he understood none of the fucking jokes in the show and just saw everyone laughing and so started laughing with him. Great show for him. It's almost Cirque du Soleil. You could not speak English and very much understand what is happening.

39:22Just unbridled chaos. Yes. We go back to my place and I order us some sandwiches and I realized that like I'm the father. Yeah, of course. In this situation. Well, you've always been really. We start talking. He starts telling me about his life. It's incredibly awkward at first and then incredibly easy. and then I start to fall back into like being a kid again. I don't know how to describe it. I start to feel like I'm in my eight-year-old body and I'm talking to this man who approximates my father and I can also tell that there's extreme memory loss going on from him. Could you sense this was a mission of repair or just curiosity?

40:09I think it was neither of those things. I think it was, my son's in New York. I'm here. I'd like to see him. And we'll go from there. As simple as that. Yeah. There's no question in my mind that my father loves me dearly. What he did to me and my family doesn't support that. Align, yeah. But he has never not expressed his own form and his own idea of love. So we're sitting there, we're talking, and it starts to become very apparent to me that he's lost everything. He's living on welfare. Wow. Because he was a kind of high roller. He owned, I think, the largest producing mine in Columbia. Had he held on to that, we would have been billionaires and lost it all.

40:55As there always is, he and his partner fucked each other and all paid the price. So I'm sitting there and this guy who I always was like, oh my God, he's invincible is now like Al Pacino and Godfather three. Yeah. The next morning I hug him, I'm get him a car and I give him his jacket and he goes, what's that? And I said, that's your jacket. And he goes, it's not my jacket. And I go, that's your jacket, dad. He goes, it's not my jacket. And then I put it on him and I say, this is the jacket you came in. And it occurs to me, perhaps this is the last time A, my father recognizes me. He's not the kind of guy who will go to a doctor.

41:34And it seems to me like there's something debilitating going on. And I love him. And so I wish he would. But I'm also having this moment of going, is this where this journey ends for us? And if it does, I'm so grateful I had this. I lied to my mom. I didn't tell her that I saw him. That's a pattern because I think one of the meanest things he did to you without probably any awareness that it was mean, he's left when josh is a kid josh has no idea why they got divorced mom throws him out and then when he's eight two years later he invites him to the sheridan by the way that was the place when we were kids oh it was remember the sheridan of course my mom took us there to tell us she was divorcing my third dad why is that that was like the four seasons for us so you get invited to the sheridan and he says surprise and introduces me to his mistress and their son from columbia the Dad had another family.

42:27I didn't know what to do with that. I'm eight. I start spiraling. And he swears you to secrecy. This is the cruelty that he probably wasn't even aware of. He was oblivious. My dad doesn't operate in familiar ways that we understand responsible parents. And I'm grateful for that because, man, did it fucking teach me how to be a great parent. Yeah. I'm sure you have the same sort of experience of learning from mistakes and vowing to never fucking repeat those mistakes. Yeah. Just going to share one part of my story because I happen to be writing about it just recently. Even at a young age, I was a little skeptical.

43:00So I would go to his house on the weekends and he was so loving. That's a gift I had. He was so affectionate for a dad in the 80s. He hugged us and kissed us and snuggled us and showered us in love. And he wasn't around. So there's this like huge disconnect from like what I would feel in that moment. But then the actions afterwards never matched it. and it just created this huge dissonance where I'm like what is this I appear to be the most important thing in the world and then I don't see him for three weeks and he doesn't show up for my brother's field hockey games we all know is very important to my brother and also how's he living this kind of rich lifestyle and we're fucking dead broke how's that happening so there's all this really just confusing how do I compute the messages versus the actions the exact same story except my dad would go months at a time and would live in another country right with one of his many other, you know, fuck buddies.

43:50It makes love so confusing for the rest of your life, I assume. A hundred percent. Who's to say what's real and what's not real? But then that's the question you live with forever. What is real? I vividly remember sitting at the window in my home in Hollywood, Florida, waiting for my father to show up on countless nights where he never came. And my mom knew he wasn't going to come and he would tell me he was coming and I believed he was coming and then he wouldn't show up. And I talk about this in my book too, which is the sort of the kismet of my Disney journey is the one place my father would always take me when I was growing up was Disney World.

44:30Wow. And so Disney World became a symbol of my relationship with my father and Disney escapism became the salve that was healing any sort of absence that I felt in my life. I also think it sets you up for this pattern you then replicate in life where it's just like, highs, lows, highs, lows, right? Because the dads are always winning you back over. They feel bad and whether they are consciously aware of it or subconsciously, but yeah, when they have you, they're putting on this incredible show and they're going to make up for all this time. So it's like you get pretty used to these insane spikes of love bombiness and then nothing.

45:07Disappearance. For me, it can kind of fuck up all relationships going forward because it's like this is the pattern of love. Yeah, it can. It had the opposite effect on me and my brothers. I have such an incredible mother. My mom was so badass. And despite the emotional shrapnel that I felt as a result of her divorce, and I've had to heal and talk to her about that and forgive that because I didn't understand at the time that her mood swings and her anger and my brothers having moved to college, I was the only one in the house who was absorbing that. And that was scary. And that was lonely and the birth of comedy.

45:51And it was a birth of comedy because as a result of her pain and her depression, I somehow found this weapon where I was able to make her laugh. And I was like, that's something. And tapping into that and then making that a career came from the seeds of that despair, as it often does, I would imagine. But that was hard. When you were choosing to honor your dad's request to keep the other family secret, was that out of loyalty to him or were you afraid of how that would make your mom feel to know? A hundred percent the latter. The latter, right. You're responsible for mom's mood as a little boy.

46:29You're protecting her feelings from finding out about the other family. There's a lot of adulting going on. I grew up too fast and I didn't grow up enough. I'm jealous of my friends who had both parents till they were 18 at least. And then a later divorce, I think, is sometimes maybe better, sometimes maybe worse. For me, it was very different experience than it was for my brothers. My brothers were 10 and 8 years older and they got the family journey. Mine was ripped away at six. You don't have the skills to process that. And so I became very destructive. I would lie constantly to my mom. I was doing horribly in school.

47:13It is almost impossible to flunk first grade. I was getting F's and D's. Of course you were. Regulating with food enters the picture. That's when I started to balloon. And I was also actually physically destructive. I remember a day where I took something in the back of my mom's car, the little cigarette things that you would push down, and I started burning holes in the back of her car. And my mom could not figure out what the fuck was going on with me. And it was this absolute burden on my shoulders of having to keep this secret and lashing out because I didn't know what else to do. And my mom finally sat down and said, something's got to change, got me to speak to a therapist.

47:56I was able to finally unburden this secret, was able to finally find some sort of path for myself to navigate my own very difficult emotions, and then was able to overcome all of the chaos. And did the therapist tell you it was okay for you to tell your mom? The therapist did. This was a period where I only wanted to sleep in my mom's room. I was afraid to sleep by myself. There was so much shit going on. So I had one therapist who told my mom to lock me in my room. Oh boy. And my mom, God bless her, is like, you're out of your fucking mind. Yeah. Let's switch. And then I found this incredible woman who was able to talk to me as a child and was able to get to why was I feeling so scared?

48:43I had this enormous fear of death. I was constantly afraid of dying. I was constantly afraid of loss. And once I had a grasp on that, I was then able to take all of that and start to focus my energies on performance. And so my mom found this local children's theater called the Hollywood Playhouse for the Performing Arts, signed me up, and that changed my life. especially being overweight, I've found that the greatest superpower I had was making fun of myself and using that self-deprecation to win people over. And so I also parlayed it into popularity. I became class president. I became sort of a king in high school and I didn't fit the sort of physical bill of what that usually looks like.

49:35It makes it even that much better. Funny is funny and it attracts people. And I suddenly was like, OK, this is my high. This is what I'm going to lean into. Cut to me going to Carnegie Mellon drama for some reason. Well, but really quick, you're crushing. You're in AP classes. You're the class president. You're a three time champion. You apply to Northwestern. In fact, eight of you from your school apply and then you're going to go to Juilliard or you apply to Juilliard and then you get rejected from Northwestern and you're like, I can't wait to go commiserate with these other seven dipshits who certainly didn't get it.

50:10All of them got it. Oh no! Class of 99 all got in except for me. I love these reality checks every now and then just when you're certain you're the king. I'm confused though because in the book you go and you audition for Juilliard and it seems you got in but then you went to Carnegie Mellon. I did not get into Juilliard. Oh you didn't! I had the worst audition of my life. But you said I Trojan horsed my way into Carnegie Mellon. Sorry, tell me about Juilliard. So Juilliard I go in there and I am bullish. I'm like, I got this. After you didn't get into Northwestern? Northwestern is all about grades and SAT.

50:45Yeah, it is. At the time, I had gotten like a 1350 on my SAT. It's not bad. So I was thinking like, oh, I'm shooing. But like all my friends had got 1400 or above. So Northwestern was out of the picture. And I'm like, well, it doesn't matter. My backup Juilliard is all about like the audition. So I go in there and I do Marty by Patty Chayefsky. That was the piece that I had gotten third place in my sophomore year of high school. This is also a beautiful story. Someone forces you to do drama, basically. Correct. And you do it and you fall in love with that as well. So I do it and I'm thinking to myself, I'm fucking killing this.

51:18I described the three people auditioning me as like the ringwraiths of Lord Sauron. It is really, truly these hooded kind of like figures who are not willing to express at all. I admire the lack of people pleasing. Oh, yeah. Can you imagine just watching something and saying nothing? And you have to think about this. These are also the same people at that time who had Kevin Kline and Robin Williams and all of the greats come through. So I don't fucking care about like who I am. They also get a high off of being so stoic. 100%. So their stoicism absolutely gets to me. And then Michael Kahn, who's running it, goes, do you have anything else you want to do for us today?

52:01And I said, you have a classical piece. And I do something from Henry VIII. And I forgot all of the words and start improv-ing in iambic pentameter to a man who literally is responsible for not only Juilliard, but a Shakespeare festival in Washington, D.C. Oh, I'm sweating.

52:56I saw that I could apply as a director. And when you apply as a director, you have to do an audition for some reason to sort of communicate that you understand an actor's journey as a director. So I come and I do this audition and the guy who runs Greg Lehane goes, huh, are you sure you want to be a director? And I said, why, what are you thinking? Yeah, good answer. And he's like, well, I'd like to share this with my acting colleague, Tony McKay. And so Tony comes in and watches and he goes, you want to direct? And I said, I guess I could be convinced to act. I love directing, but I don't know.

53:35So I completely Trojan horse my way to see it. And then tried to Trojan horse my way into musical theater. That's where they drew the line. And my class was crazy. It was Leslie Odom Jr., Josh Groban. Wow. Rory O'Malley. so that is how i ended up there also what's a conservatory so conservatory is basically like hogwarts for drama kids you don't have to do shit other than you just act in fact i was desperate here's again my absolute jealousy of expertise was i wanted more academia and i didn't get more academia. I got movement class one, two, three, and four. I got voice class one, two, three, four.

54:21You basically had to take seven to 10 classes that were academic in nature during the duration of your studies. And that wasn't enough for me. I'm more jealous of the liberal arts. Yeah. Mind expanding understanding. I definitely would never trade in my experience, but I did miss out on a fuller body of learning. But I think the group that went sounds so fun because you describe a night. It was a three story dormitory and there's a party and you drink a half a fifth of tequila and then you piss your jeans and then take a 20 minute nap. Have a threesome. Regroup, go to the first floor, hook up with someone, go to the third floor, hook up with someone and then make love to someone on the second floor.

55:03All the same night. And you say it's not because of your prowess. It's not because of my prowess. It's because I was the only straight person in my class. What a blessing. And so it was just a fuck fest. And, you know, I lost 100 pounds in college. I substituted my food addiction for sex and alcohol. And so that just became the chaos of that period for me. I'm imagining from your high school experience to this experience. I don't know how on earth one would resist that. It was a complete body transformation. Yeah. I dyed my hair blonde. Sure. We're going to need a pic. I will show you a pic. I lost myself a little bit.

55:42Yeah. By the way, I think you should. That's what college is about. No, no, no. In a bad way. Yeah, yeah. But I think you should lose yourself in a bad way. So I started to get extreme anxiety. I was being looked at in a different way. And I didn't know how to handle that attention. And I also didn't know this was me. That's a blonde. Wow. We got to show the cam. Yeah, this guy lives for three ways. Wow. Okay, so for the listeners, you still have the dark eyebrows. Eyebrows. But the hair is quite blonde. Yeah, hair is platinum blonde. So I felt like a stranger in my body. I was not used to being attractive.

56:22I was not used to being sought after. I didn't know how to operate in that body. And I also didn't know how to play the roles in that body. Okay, Josh, really quick. This is why I'm saying it's a blessing that happened to you then, because I've brought this up many times on here. It's a trope in Hollywood. A lot of people end up getting enormous amounts of status and that wasn't their experience all growing up and they don't really know how to handle it. And I've seen it most often lead to this bizarre version of misogyny. It's like these dudes have all these women that like them and they don't really trust it and they kind of hate them for it.

56:54Why don't you like me when I'm younger? I mean, I've seen that pattern materialize a bunch of times for people who got that attention and status late in life. Like Yuval. I don't even know why I didn't say it by name. We're all thinking it. Yuval's husband is gorgeous. Oh, yeah. He joins him when he comes. But Yuval's always been. But I think like, had you not had that thing, then you would have had an opportunity to do it later. Why does that result in anxiety? Just because you're very disconnected. Your identity is kind of fractured. I felt like a visitor in my body. I felt like an alien taking over another person's body.

57:25I don't know how to describe it. I had my eyes. I had my ears. I had my voice. But it was not me. I was playing a character. Yeah, yeah. Cool guy character. And by the way, I think it's why I continue to struggle with weight at this point in my life, because I really didn't know how to be that guy. Now, for health, I want to lose weight and desperately trying to. But that was really, really strange. Yeah. This is something I also want to bring up. And I don't know how to tiptoe around it, but I'm just going to be dead honest. I was just thinking of you on my trip to Mexico City. so I'm with somebody who's on a version of a GLP one who's loving it he more often is telling me like it's so weird to see this stuff and not have that pull I normally have yeah if you listen to our first episode we do 20 minutes on what the perfect day of eating would be from your point of view what you would start the day with we got general chow's chickens in there we had everything bagel we went through the whole thing you're going to finish the night with sushi but it'll be a lot of tempura and hearing the amount of joy you get from that.

58:28I literally thought in my head, I wonder if there'll be people when GLP ones are virtually over the counter, if they'll choose not to do that because so much of the joy in their life is that they don't want that relationship where it's not appealing. I'm on a GLP one. Has it limited your joy at all? It has suppressed in a great way that noise. When I wake up, I feel hunger pains. And so much of that is psychological. Right. And what this does is it takes away that signal. Yeah. It's even working on addicts. It is a miracle drug. It truly is. Yeah. I was on a different drug that caused me diverticulitis.

59:09Okay, no good. And I had lost 40 pounds. I was really bummed out because it was working incredibly for me and I had to switch. I'm figuring out this new one and it is life changing, but it also doesn't negate the fact that it can't be in the place of having a healthy relationship with food and it can't be in the place of having a healthy relationship with exercise. Well, would it be fair to say it's treating the symptom? It is treating the symptom. And by the way, this is the first time I've opened up about this. Oh, okay. And I didn't mean to put you on that spot. I'm actually really happy that I'm opening about this because I'm having my own journey with it.

59:40Sure. Sometimes I feel like I'm cheating myself by doing this. You shunned. And I know a lot of people who aren't overweight like I am who are taking it. And I feel like, OK, I should be able to do this because I need it for health. Someone shaving off the last three pounds, which is, I think, becoming. Yeah. How do you feel about that? I'm not one to pass judgment to each their own. I think that the problem becomes when it prevents others who need it medically, like myself, getting it. That's where I get upset. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

1:00:26Yeah, I like to evaluate it in a world where it's completely ubiquitous and it's available. I think that's where you need to place this theoretical thought process when you're going to decide if you're judgmental. Because I don't give a fuck if anyone does anything like that that's safe and doesn't have many side effects. That makes them feel better. I don't know why I wouldn't want that for somebody. Would you judge someone for taking suppressants for nicotine? Would you judge someone for taking antidepressants for anxiety? No. This is medication. It's treating a disease. I'm not saying everyone should be on it.

1:00:57But for the people I know who are on it, it's making their life a lot better. Yes. Why would I not want that for them? My wife is not thrilled that I take it. Because she's worried you're not going to confront the core thing that's driving it. But again, this position is binary. It's either or. It's like either you choose this route or you choose to confront. Obviously, you can do both. Yeah, or divorce her. Right. Well, we'll see. Seems like you'd need her if she gets out of the fire and you can't. That's the thing. Right now, I need her this week. Yeah, unfortunately. And then we'll go from there.

1:01:27This is not your wife. But I can easily see a hypothetical where someone fell in love with someone that was larger. And there is perhaps some shadow in their mind that says, well, I wonder if they had all the options if they would have still picked me. And now they're going to be thin and they're going to have all the options. And there's fear behind that. I mean, I think that that's fair. Some people hate that when their partner becomes a gym rat and they're in great shape. They're like scared all of a sudden. Yeah. They won't be enough. I think that that's very fair. At the end of the day, my wife is so much hotter than me.

1:02:02You're like, she's not worried. I should be more concerned about like her. Yeah, there's no version of you that still wouldn't be dying to be with her. No. Another generous take on that is that they're worried that their identity will shift completely. Yours did, as you're saying. I've always been the funny fat guy. Can I be the funny skinny guy? Right. Can I be the hot leading man? I know I could be those things. I don't know that people would accept me as those things. And that's always really hard. We get typecast. We do a thing and people see us as that thing. And I've been very blessed that I continue to challenge myself to not be typecast, to do things that nobody expects.

1:02:37Yeah. Listen, Josh, I would honor this fear if I thought you were a one trick pony who fell through tables as their main deal. You're like a crazy good dramatic actor. You're an improv genius. You sing like a motherfucker. Olaf is you. all blessings to all the writing, but that creation is Josh Gad. Like that fear for you should be nowhere in sight. Thank you. I also think I have a healthier relationship with my brain than I did back then. And so now I think, you know, as I go on this journey of weight loss, I'm not as worried about that because my primary goal is I want to be there for my kids.

1:03:15Everything else is bullshit. You also make your own shit. That's part of your genius. You do your own thing. So no one can take that from you. You'll keep doing your own thing. I appreciate that. At the very least, I'll do more of this. Exactly. More of your podcast. You can come on. But I don't get paid for this, do I? Once every five years. I actually am going to give you$100 for coming in last minute. Yeah, I already planned on it. I put my billfold in my pocket. Is it in cash? It's in cash. So I don't need to write it off. But now I do because it's on record. But then you'll say you gave it back to me after and it was just a bit.

1:03:44Oh, smart. But really, you'll be fucking blowing a hole in that hundo on your way home.

1:03:51you're gonna come up with so many trinkets here that's how the irs takes me down because of this 100 that was promised to me on this bullshit no but i can gift you up to 18 000 tax free i'll take it yeah so tell me about the gap between graduating from cmu and then i guess it would be putnam i was singularly focused on one thing i wanted to be on saturday night live that's all i wanted In my fucking fragile little brain, I somehow thought going to Carnegie Mellon drama was enough to audition and be accepted. I'm not sure what I was thinking, but I started immediately out of college putting together a reel for SNL.

1:04:38I got Ron Howard to open the video. He's live from Josh's VCR. Oh, my God. How do you get that done? Bryce Alice Howard is my best friend. Oh, OK. Because she married my actual best friend, Seth Gable, from when I was four. And so she let me borrow her father, who was very willing to help me out. And it was incredible. He did not get the job. Open the door she thought it might. So I kept sending in tapes for like three years. Didn't get on. Signed up for the Groundlings. Did that for two years. You did that for two years. I did the first two classes. They didn't accept me into the third level.

1:05:12And then I start to get little jobs here and there. I'm sort of at the breaking point and I talked about this on my last time so I'm not gonna revisit all of this but I basically am like I'm quitting acting I'm not making money I had met my then girlfriend now wife Ida and I was like I need to become a lawyer so I started applying to law schools my mom as you know already basically is like you're a fucking coward if you do that I audition for this show called 25th annual Putnam County Spelling Bee and I get it but I got the San Francisco version and I don't know what I'm thinking because I have no work but I turn it down oh wow they are done with me they are fucking furious and somehow I find out they're they're replacing Dan Fogler the Tony Award winner for the show and I get them to give me another chance but they're like not having it I go in I do my audition goes fine I then do the music audition goes fine I do the dance audition it's an unmitigated disaster i look like a fucking beached whale learning to swim again and then i somehow get a phone call that i'm supposed to go to the theater that night i go to this callback it's me and this other guy jordan who's on broadway doing avenue q i have nothing on my resume i have one episode of er and i have you were just summarily released from the ground and you were studying college yeah and i fuck a lot of people it's out of necessity first floor second floor third floor every fucking basement we didn't even have a fucking smoke coming out of the police so this guy goes first he's out there for like 10 minutes i come out i see 30 people who are all sitting in the circle in the square theater they're all directors producers investors i crack a joke i start my scene i get a minute and a half in and the director james the pine and i talk about this in the book says, Josh, can I see you up here for a second?

1:07:13All of your teachers sound like Bill Hoffman. Oh, Philip Seymour. You know, I do basically, we've established this. I do one impression. It's Bill Hoffman. Everything else derived from that. Yeah, Josh, I want to talk to you. Come here. James calls me up, dismisses everybody. And he says, I don't think you take this seriously. And I said, excuse me? He goes, I don't think you take this seriously. And I said, well what makes you think that and he goes this is the opportunity of a lifetime everybody wants to do a broadway show and your first instinct is to come out and crack a joke and i said well forgive me but there are 30 people sitting in front of me who are about to decide my fate and i figured i had two options i could either break the ice or projectile vomit on you and your colleagues so forgive me for choosing the former and i'm not even saying it jokingly i'm like super fucking pissed.

1:08:08And then he starts to lecture me about the fact that I don't have the discipline in craft to take this job. And I look at him and I say, all due respect, you can tell me I'm not right for the role. You can tell me that I am not your favorite actor. You can fucking tell me I'm not funny for you to sit there and tell me and judge my discipline after I literally spent four years in conservatory, spent every last penny that I had to learn my craft, to study my craft, to stick with my craft through thick and thin. That is not something you get to take away from me. And I said, good luck with your show.

1:08:49I appreciate this. Thank you for the opportunity. I walk out. I congratulate Jordan on getting the role. I go back to my hotel, the Sheridan. No, actually it was a Hilton. That was a Hilton. Well, they kind of. Yeah, it's either Sheridan or Hilton. Modern day Sheridan. And I called my mom up. She said, how did it go? I said, didn't happen. As bad as it could. As bad as it could. I'm coming home. And I get a call from my then agent, Hannah Roth. And she says, hey. And I said, hey, I'm not really in the mood to talk right now. And she goes, well, you have two tickets to go see Spelling Bee tonight.

1:09:21And I said, why the fuck would I want to go see that show? And at this point, I had never seen the show. I didn't have enough money to get a ticket to see the show. I was just approximating what I thought it should be. And I said, why the fuck would I want to go see that? And she goes, well, the director feels that you should probably see it before you start rehearsals in two weeks. Unreal. Wow. So it was a mind fuck. What was your all's post conversation of that initial? My relationship with James is now wonderful. Recently, we had a dinner where we talked through everything and he was incredible about it, but he was horrible to me during that process.

1:09:59Oh, he was. The whole show. The whole show. I was a punching bag. It was brutal. Was he so upset he was losing Dan? I think that was a big part of it. When we sat down and we discussed it and we had it out and he was so gracious and has since apologized to me for what that experience was. He said I needed to get my ass kicked. I agree with that. I don't think the psychological warfare was necessary, but I agree with it. But I would come back and I would smoke every night a full bong of like hashish because I was so fucking scared. I was just fucked. I was always in a state of fear, panic, and it just didn't get better.

1:10:39I couldn't wait to leave. And the cast was awesome, but also they missed Dan. Yeah, that's a hard position. It sucks being a replacement sometimes. Yeah. I'm not sure if that's everyone's experience. I go out of my way to be kind to my replacements because of what that experience was. But it fucking sucked. And I would do it all again if I could, because it taught me resilience. Yeah, if you can get through that. I think we coddle a lot now. And I think actors who are breaking in, you need to get your ass kicked, man, because it's a fucking brutal business. I learned from every minute of that, even though it wasn't all roses and candy.

1:11:21It was everything I needed at the time to prepare me for a career that is filled with so many more lows than highs. And once you have that, you can handle. Yeah, absolutely. And there were times when I didn't think I could get through it. There were times when I would literally have anxiety attacks because James would call a rehearsal that I knew was just about putting me in my place and keeping me in a box. And I didn't feel safe. I didn't feel comfortable improv-ing. I didn't feel comfortable being my funniest. It's like with your confidence. I had real problems with my confidence. That happened again on Book of Mormon.

1:11:58It did. How? It did. Because I saw that. I talk about this in my book as well. so my director there Casey who's brilliant and amazing he came in after Jason Moore who we had workshopped the show with for three years left the project he was coming into a situation that was like hey we're going to Broadway it's your turn to get it all going in a couple of months he wanted to put his stamp on it and based on my experience with Spelling Bee I think I had my guard up. Yeah. You got a chip on your shoulder maybe a little bit. Don't fuck with me. Yeah. I am not to be fucked with here. And I think he felt that.

1:12:34And I think he in turn sometimes did not love that I was basically doing whatever the fuck I wanted on that stage. And he wanted to control that. And for right or wrong, it was his job. And I respect that. But we definitely butted heads. And it was sometimes very unpleasant. And Andrew and I sometimes got into it because a lot of what was going on during that time was Rannells and I, suddenly we went from zero to 60 and we had this entire show on our backs. We were not prepared for what it became. I was not ready for that kind of pressure. And I think Andrew wasn't. And so we felt sometimes like we were being pitted against each other and you're in the midst of like Tony season and you're Both vying for that award.

1:13:23Were you guys nominated for the same thing? We were both nominated for the same thing. Yeah, what the hell do you do with that? And we both lost. It was a fucking rollercoaster. How old were you at that time? I had just turned 30. And Andrew and I now talk about it, laughing about how stupid and petty all of the little bullshit was. But it was a pressure cooker. And it was so funny because going back and then doing Gutenberg, we had the complete opposite experience because we're in our 40s and don't give a shit about anything anymore because we've had so many life experiences. The bucket's been filled up.

1:13:52All of that stuff feels so insignificant. Yes. And it's beautiful because our relationship has never been stronger. We came through the other side of it. We had the most amazing experience doing that show and being a part of a pop cultural phenomenon, the likes of which musical comedy theater hadn't seen since the producers and I think hasn't seen since. It's just Hamilton in that. But in terms of comedy, right? In terms of comedies, we're a rarity. That was hard. I have since been able to look back at all of it and own my part in all of it. What's your part? I was a cocky fucking guy. And part of the cockiness was a defense mechanism.

1:14:36Yeah. You're scared. I'm scared and I'm not good enough. I'm scared. I'm not funny enough. I'm scared. I'm not worthy of the attention. I'm scared that I am going to let people down. I'm scared I'm going to let myself down. You'll be revealed at some point. I'll be revealed. And so I really peacocked. Yeah. Puffed up. You know, it's weird. I've never to this moment considered, although I experienced it being on stage at the groundlings, but where theater is so different than doing a movie is you don't really know while filming the movie who's popping and stealing it. But on a stage, boy, the fucking verdict's in every 30 seconds.

1:15:17And it's very obvious what the response to the crowd is. So if you're someone that's still doing a great job, but you're third in the crushing it, you know it. Do you know how petty I was and hungry and starving for love and adoration? I'll never forget being so mad. This is so ridiculous. But I was so mad that Andrew got the last bow and I didn't. Sure. And that is such a fucking joke. I love that you're admitting that. That I would even think that way. Yeah. Because he clearly was the one who should get the last battle. But at the time, I was like, I've been doing this show for four years. I've been here from the beginning.

1:15:55I'm the funnier role. I wasn't. I wasn't any of those things. I was involved longer. That's it. Well, if I can make an excuse for you a little bit, or not even an excuse. No, you don't make an excuse. I'm a real piece of shit. No, no. And I deserve what's happening to me. Yes, yes, yes. Isn't it true you're at fault for these high winds that just set LA ablaze? This is the same thing with black folks, with women. In your mind, if you're not the best, they're going to kick you out. Yeah. But also you'd said it earlier. You grew up with a huge fear of loss. That does not go away. I have the exact same thing.

1:16:29It doesn't go away. And also I have always felt like a fraud. I have an absolute case of imposter syndrome. Yeah. And when I go and I put myself out there, I am so scared I'm going to fail. And I am so scared that what I think is funny, other people won't find funny. And if I fail even one person, I don't think about the thousand people who enjoyed it. I think about the one person who hated it. Also, do you give it the power that like when I fail publicly, it's actually going to be so powerful, the failure, that it'll make you go back and reevaluate everything you thought thus far. I do it all the time.

1:17:07Yeah, like it has the power to not only fail in that moment, but erase everything that happened before. It is to the point now that I can't even watch anything I'm in because I judge it so harshly and so critically that I feel like a fraud. Actually, the beauty and the reason that I went back to Broadway and did a show with Andrew was I needed that again. I needed to put myself out there in the most vulnerable way at the age of 40 and have this guy who is the single funniest fucking human being I've ever worked alongside other than the two of you. Thank you. Is it a lie because you haven't worked with us?

1:17:48Well, no, it's a promise. And so I needed that. I needed my ass kicked. and the difference between when we did book of mormon and we did gutenberg was being on the other side of that and no longer focused about any of the little shit any of the dumb shit i was able to just enjoy and do a trust exercise every night and it was fucking incredible that's the thing the ultimate victim ends up being you because you are robbed of the experience so that whole experience you had, which is among 10 experiences on Broadway like that, you didn't get to experience. I didn't. Because you are so in the future and so behind and all these places other than this bizarre gift that doesn't really come around for people ever in this business.

1:18:35And yeah, you can run the risk of missing the whole thing. It's funny. I think in a certain way, you need to go through that. I'm at an age now where none of that is a factor anymore because I've learned these lessons every job that I do every day I take in and I give gratitude and I am savoring it. And you read about stories like Mandy Potemkin talking about he was so miserable to others and to himself for so long. And like my experience of working with Mandy was the complete opposite. I've never met a more giving person. And I think that we all in a weird way have to go through that, not just in this industry, in our lives.

1:19:12Oh, yeah. You have to experience that. Everyone with coworkers knows this. It's okay to go through all of that as long as you come out the other side acknowledging it. Yeah. I'm finally at a place, maybe too late, but I'm finally at a place of acknowledgement to say I was my own worst enemy in many of these situations. I was not present. I was afraid to be told no, because that meant that I had to concede I was doing something wrong. Proving you didn't belong there. It was a waste of one of the greatest years of my life. I wanted to get the fuck out of that show by the end because I was miserable.

1:19:48And I am so bitter about that because if I could go back and do Book of Mormon right now, I would fucking leave this room and put that outfit on and get on stage because it was the greatest joy ever. What Trey and Matt did is for the ages. And I didn't appreciate it enough at the time. I have two stupid questions unrelated to your book. Yeah. In my research, I discovered something that is an Alexander Payne movie waiting to happen. So your mother and stepfather were involved in a legal battle over a burial plot that was double booked. When I read that sentence, I was like, it's insane. If I was pitched that as a studio executive, I go, no.

1:20:29What in this day and age, people could be fighting over a burial plot? My grandparents were buried in this South Florida a cemetery and my parents bought a plot next to them. My mother is the daughter of Holocaust survivors. There are books about this generation. It is really difficult. The guilt is unthinkable. For me, I'd be like, just put me wherever. For her, it was such a loss. It was such a betrayal. And the way she found out, which was accidentally from a friend who was told they gave that plot accidentally away was so fucked. So it was a thing. What is the solution to a problem like that?

1:21:10Do you exhume grandma and grandma? Well, going through it now, we are literally in the process of figuring out what to do because there is no good solution. No, bury mom on top. But you sort of anticipate that the fucking place will do its job. It has one job, which is put the boxes where they're meant to go. That's your only job. I don't know how they fucking mix and match that. This is like the backside of babies. I was about to say, get swapped at the hospital. Yes. You can imagine you going and paying your respects at the wrong grave for years. You should write this. It's actually a great fucking house interview.

1:21:49It is. There's no good solution. There's solutions. All of them suck. But that's a good device for a film. There's really no solution that's going to make anyone in this scenario happy. Now I'm worried about what the second question is. I would urge you to tell people about Picture Face Lizzie because it's another book you have out. You're so prolific. This has been a year of writing for me. I really wanted to challenge myself as a writer. So I wrote Picture Face Lizzie, a kid's book, which is basically about my girls are obsessed with what their friends have and what they don't have. And that a lot of times comes in the form of social media apps.

1:22:21So they are constantly asking us why their friends are allowed to have TikTok, YouTube, Snapchat and we put such restrictions on them. This is a conversation so many of my friends are having so many of my friends kids are having it inspired me to write a book from the perspective of both the parents and the kids talking about this new doll called a picture face Lizzie that is a mixture of an American girl doll with the technological advances of having a social media application to it so that it's all encompassing. And this little kid, Eve's finds herself in a situation where all her friends do is talk about their picture face Lizzie's and she gets left behind.

1:23:05And so she goes to her parents and she says, I want one. How can I get one? And they finally cave and they give it to her. And basically they say, just don't lose who you are in the process of playing with this, have a healthy relationship with it. She becomes absolutely consumed. But over the course of the book, she starts to miss the little things she used to do, the imaginative play, the sort of experiential things. As she starts to sort of balance having this thing and doing these analog things, her friends become really attracted to what she's doing and put their dolls down and start doing that as well.

1:23:41And it's been really amazing to watch families read this book together, experience this journey together and start a conversation from it. Why did you get such a hack to narrate it? Kristen Bell was the only option I had at the time because similarly, I was canceled on by most of my previous guests and that was without an apocalyptic event. And I am doing what I can to give them a healthy relationship with technology, but also giving them the skills to be able to be without that technology. Because my concern is I know I'm addicted to it. Yeah. Parents are giving their kids advice that they themselves are incapable of following, which is hysterical.

1:24:28That's it. We at least come from a background in which we didn't have any of it. We can remember the halcyon days. And I think part of the reason my kids love Stranger Things, your listeners are like, what kind of dick shows their little kid Stranger Things but doesn't give them Snapchat? You knew the shit I've shown my children? Yeah. In fact, when the fires were, this again, I was making jokes. So the fires were getting closer and closer. They were a half mile from here and they were starting to evacuate. And I said to the 10-year-old Delta, if it looks like we're going down tonight, I'm going to let you drink wine and we're watching Pulp Fiction.

1:25:02there you go I'm not letting you leave this planet without seeing Pulp Fiction I was fucking six when I watched Nightmare on Elm Street oh my grandpa took me on opening day to Scarface in 1981 and I was six and I watched a chainsaw cut up the worst thing that's ever happened to me is I was in college and I took my mother to go see Unfaithful the Diane Lane like sex film sex tape This is like fucking snuff film. And I sat next to my mother as like, she's getting rammed by this really hot young man. And I was like, God damn, I should have just read the reviews. I got to tell you one more moment.

1:25:43My memory of the Thomas Crown Affair. I'm like, that is the funnest movie. I can't wait to show my, at that time, Lincoln was probably nine. I'm like, I remember the sailboat scene and the cool this and the caper with the bowler hats and the Magritte paintings. Cut to Brosman's making love on the staircase. case and you're just sitting there and it's going on for a long time do you fast forward no we would go for it sex isn't bad same we showed ava rain man and i forgot that there's a scene in rain man a hot one with time where like yeah he's just fucking away and same with jerry mcguire there's a period of tom cruise movies well he's gonna sprint in every movie he was sprinting or fucking yeah because he's a great kisser on screen he's great gotta give him that he knows that's where some of the money is yeah he's an incredible runner and a great kisser so anyways we're watching this scene that's now you know as i remember maybe 30 seconds which now feels like it's 11 minutes long and lincoln just goes do people do that have sex and she goes no on the stairs

1:26:39because the absurdity is very clear to a nine-year-old like but by the way that is a very good question is that real and i go actually no only in movies do people have sex on the stairs

1:26:54that is so your child that is so your fucking child oh well joshy thanks so much thank you this was nice this was a good distraction and your book is phenomenal thank you it's really really really good it's very honest and it's very well written and it's quite funny you're never more than three sentences away from a josh gadzinger why didn't you write a blurb on the back i was um it's not too late i could just send out a flyer why don't i just write something in pen and i I wanted these book promotional things. You find a single arm jury. You can go like, do you want this one that Dax shit on in pencil?

1:27:29Did you consider calling it the book of Gad? I did at one point, actually. Okay, that got taken off. Yeah, there were so many puns. So many. How does one pick? And is that you? That is truly me. What is that from? What photo is that? I did it exclusively for the book. They take photos now. You think that they like pull it off of the internet. They take it from your gram. Where do you assume pictures on books come from? I don't know. I just, you know who it kind of looks like. Tell me. And I'm embarrassed that I'm forgetting his name. But did you watch the second iteration of Wet Hot American Summer?

1:27:59Yes. Do you remember the guy where he always wore three collars? What's that actor's name? I know he went to school with Jada Pinkett. Jordan. Joseph Gordon. Josh Gordon. Joseph Gordon-Levitt? No. Josh Gordon, I think. That doesn't matter. Everybody reading Gad We Trust. And please go to Dax's curated list of places where you can support. Yes, please do that as well. And if you're struggling, I hope this two hours was a reprieve. Yeah. Amen. All right. Love you. This was, by the way, reprieve for me. Thank you. You too. All right. Be well. Josh Charles. That's a little late for that. Thanks, Rob.

1:28:29Josh.

1:28:33I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong. Burberry? That's correct. That's correct. Only wear Burberry to swim. That's JC lime. That's when you know you've made it, when you only wear Burberry to swim. I don't. I wear it for fact checks. Oh, yeah. Looks stunning. Thank you. Are you noticing anything? About you. Yeah. Yeah, you're growing your beard out. Okay, great. Sure. Or maybe back out. I just blue-dried my hair. Blow-dried? Wow, okay. What do you think? It looks nice. A lot of volume. It looks fluffy.

1:29:11Yeah, I got out of the shower, and I was like, what if we put a little mousse in our hair and then hair-dry it? Oh, my God. And here we are. Because 50. No, I think New Year. Okay, that's great. Stagnation. Sure, you want to mix it up. Do you think a little bit of this potentially has to do with we had a guest in who has like really fluffy hair? No, but it is slightly impacted by the guest we're going to have after this fact check. Okay. Which he is such an eclectic. Very. This won't sound like a compliment, but it is. Okay. One of your classic compliments. One of my classic compliments that has you feeling terrible afterwards.

1:29:53Whatever the most exotic lizard is, right? That's rough. That's bad. With the colorful. He's just cool. Maybe you'll go with some original words like cool. And he knows this. He's also dangerous. He's like snake in the Garden of Eden. He already. So much Easter eggs happening right now. But we're going to talk about that. He's dangerous. Oh, I'm excited for that. I like a little danger. But he's dangerous and colorful. So if you can think of another. I don't want to use unicorn because unicorns are for babies. And you don't like unicorns. Right. Except you do. I love them. I love to call everyone a unicorn.

1:30:31Yeah. But that's another thing I got to stop. I got to start blow drying my hair and I got to stop using unicorn. Your contradictions. Yeah. Dangerous but colorful is like a flamingo because I think they eat you. You think they're dangerous. Yeah, I do think they're actually hidden in danger. You just snap any part of them in half. They're very tall. Exactly. They're so tall and not robust. Well, that's your privilege because you're tall so you could snap, but I'm too short. I wouldn't be able to reach. Totally disagree. I would put you in the running back category. Ding, ding, ding. Thank you.

1:31:03Troy Lyons, we'll get there. Yeah. No, you were low and powerful. So you would smash into those flamingos, little dainty toothpick slash chopstick legs. Okay. And it'd be, no one wants to know this, but it would be. No, this is like two fact checks in a row we've been like. Animal cruelty. True. But no, I need something a little more dangerous, but also radiant and beautiful and colorful. So I'm thinking with some of those lizards, they get pissed and they start walking on their back legs and they got their arms out. And they're funny. Their mantle's out. They flare out their big parachute around their neck and it's full of colors.

1:31:39What about peacocks? Are they mean? No, these are. Are you sure you know? If you're going to use a bird, we use a predator bird. Those aren't colorful on purpose because they're trying to blend in. Right. I feel that I'm drawn to birds, not in life, but in pictures. OK, sure. I have a big photograph in my apartment of a woman. she has a cage on her head, but the bird is free. What does that metaphor mean? Oh, it's deep. It is? Locked in the cage of your own mind? It's like golden cage a little bit, but the bird is ready. Golden handcuffs. Also, I almost bought this other piece of art, not Anne Monsoor, New Lady.

1:32:23Okay. And it was also a woman with a bird. And I immediately DMed and was trying to get it. Yeah. And then I thought, how many things with birds can I have? Yeah, because now it's probably about to pass the many, many self images you have that my children have generated and that Kristen's generated. Right. Because you have a lot of, as we know, photos of yourself, art of yourself. Well, I'm not. We talked about that, though. Is it like would it freak someone out who came over? Okay, there's a picture that Lincoln painted of me when she was like five or six. She was really young. And Kristen painted a picture of me for Secret Turkey.

1:33:07And she made a figurine of you. Yep. With big boobs. And then Lincoln also made a big boob figurine, as I recall. Oh, okay. I only have one. Okay. I think I have the one Lincoln made. Okay. And it's in a drawer. So no one would see that unless they were. I mean, I want people to see it, but it invites a lot of questions. Which could be helpful in the right context. Circumstance, perhaps. Maybe if I get on the apps, which I probably won't, but if I do, maybe that could be my little picture. Oh, that'd be great. Yeah. So I have a little mystery, too, but it's also being very obvious. You're also leaning over, leaning in.

1:33:50Leaning the witness a little bit. But those other ones aren't hung up. I am going to display definitely Lincolns. Yeah. That's less about me. They're all not about you. Right. In your defense. Yeah, I didn't ask for them. But we did ask the question, what would be critical mass? Where even if they're not about you, someone might go, my Lord, this person has like 30 or 40 pieces of art depicting her. I'm not doing that. Even these famous artists, they tend to only do one or two self-portraits, as I recall. Right? Yeah. Also the mouth. I mean, that's why I also have this space. I've put some of my art of me here.

1:34:27Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's right. So there's all that art, too. And then there's the arm cherry art. Yeah. Which we have a lot of. We do. But that lives in our workspace. That feels fine. Right. That feels fine. Real quick question. If you were a great artist, do you think you would do self-portraits? And how many would you do? Like, I guess I'm delighted Van Gogh did a self-portrait because there were no cameras around. Right. So my only idea of what he looks like is what he drew of himself. Yeah, but it's probably so inaccurate. Like if I did a self-portrait. Well, that would be great. If you were a really, really talented artist and you could actually show us exactly what you see.

1:35:07Yeah. That would be incredible. Yeah. Because I guarantee it would be super off. Crickets are out. Oh, yay. I mean, you're a good artist, so you could do a self-portrait. Aren't they all those all those monsters I draw? I think those are all secretly self-portraits. It's also a little like that's how you're going to spend your time drawing yourself. Yeah, but you're always there, right? If you need a model for something, it's like all you need is a mirror in your. That's true. In your sketchy. Yeah, I'm probably not going to do that. OK, should we dive into the heartbreak? Yeah, let's hear about it.

1:35:40So went to the game. The Lions game. The Lions playoff game against the commanders. Yeah. And if I'm listing a top 10 experiences with my best friend Aaron Weekly, this is making the list. We were so beside ourself that we were down on the field at the Lions. I had the singular goal of standing next to Dan Campbell, the coach. Right. In hopes I could get a sense of just how big he is because I see him on TV. I also looked him up and it says 6 '5". Oh, wow. But these football players are infamously, they're all a little bit embellished. Okay. Because they were coming out of college and they're entering the draft and they want to seem as big and as enormous.

1:36:23So it's always like, if you see 6 '5", probably 6 '3 1⁄2". Okay. I'm just going to guess there's a standard 1 1⁄2 inch. Flub. Flub. Fluff. Yeah. So I was just hoping to stand next to him. So Keegan-Michael Key's there. Oh! Friend of the pot. Friend of the pot and the ultimate Detroiter. And I don't even pretend to be as authentic and committed to the Lions as he is. It's his life. Okay, great. So I'm a bit of a poser. But I'm as excited as anyone. So that counts. Yeah. So he starts. He knows everybody, as you might expect. So he introduces me to Martha Ford. Do you know who Martha Ford is? Martha?

1:37:06Martha Ford. Martha Ford. Oh, no. Rob, will you look up her age while I'm chatting? She's 99. 90 fucking nine. Monica, I have to tell you, of all the things, I mean, she's tied with Dan Campbell. So she, if I am to believe Aaron, was the daughter of the Firestone Tire dynasty. Oh, okay. Married Henry Ford's son. Wow. Is she hot? I'll get there. Okay. They own the lions, which I wasn't even positive I knew. The Ford family owns the lions. Oh, wow. They own the Ford Field, the arena. Martha rolls in on a golf cart and she gets out. Next thing you know, I'm meeting her. She's so tiny. Yeah, I bet.

1:37:50I loved her immediately because she's so tiny. She has a walker. What color hair does she have? White. Okay, just checking. I think once you're 99, your standard hair is white. Yeah, but you might dye it. Not Martha. Oh, good for her. She is such a spitfire. So they get us to line up the team photographers going to take a picture of us. And Martha has a walker. She's 99. And we're about to take the picture. And she goes, get this out of here. She chucked her walker. She didn't want that walker fucking anywhere near this photo. And I was like, I love her. Yeah. I'll be standing for this and I don't want any evidence of this walker.

1:38:29Oh, I love that. Fun. When I was shaking, I shook her hand for a very long time because I loved holding it. It was like shaking hands with Delta. It was a tiny little hand and she was so sweet. And I felt like I was in history. Yeah. Marrying Henry Ford's son. That is wild. That feels like from another eon. Yeah, it does. Then I start talking to Dan Campbell's wife by chance. What color hair? Brownish. Okay. From Dallas. Super fun. And before I know it, she's turning her attention away from me because Dan Campbell has walked out of the locker room. He walks directly up to her and gives her the longest kiss.

1:39:12That's nice. It was so nice. I was like, oh, my God, I just love this whole thing. Then she introduces me to him. I'm shaking his hand. I'm very excited to be shaking his hand and saying things. I'm not even sure what I was saying. You know. oh it's your love is my and i hope he would kiss you well i'll get to that oh my god so it's some chit chat chit chat and then he gets distracted and then he's talking to keegan and then he's gonna carry on and and he gives keegan a huge hug and i'm like i'm gonna well even worse i'm like i'm gonna hug him goodbye oh i'm really afraid to say this because i'm afraid some lions fans are going to blame me that this hug jinxed everything.

1:39:59And by the way, I did think it in my head for a couple hours. I started feeling really guilty. Like, I shouldn't have. Did you? But I was like, all right, yeah, great meeting you. And I just got to make it very obvious. I want a hug. And he hugs me. He obliges. And Monica, it was like hugging a water buffalo. What do you mean? I need more. He is so big. Like squishy? No, no. His lats are like this wide. His neck is like, you know, this wide. For the listener, I'm holding my hands very far apart. Yeah. He is, I don't think he's 6 '5". It's a little bit like Toto. He's taller than me. Toto is 6 '9".

1:40:38Yes. In my heart. Same. But he's definitely taller than me. Let's just say that. And he is just like hugging a Redwood. Were you like this? Like you couldn't get your arm? That's what I thought I was, but then I saw a video of it. Oh, okay. All right. I just loved it. I hugged him. I felt his lats. They were so big. Yeah. I wanted him to throw me on the ground, kind of. Sure. Which is interesting. I just kind of wanted to feel his power a little bit. Yeah, I get it. But he was so nice. He's such a nice man. Yeah. He got emotional in the post-game thing. I don't know if you saw that. It was very sweet.

1:41:10I didn't watch. I think he's a vulnerable. Aww. I'm beaming like I'm eight years old. Aaron is so excited. Yeah. He took a couple pictures. He goes, I took a couple pictures. I'm like, oh my God. I'm so glad you took some pictures. Yeah. I go, they look like a little baby next to him. And Aaron goes, you guys look like twins. Twins. So he's not, wait, I'm confused now. You should be. I'm not nearly as big as him, but my son is such a sweet boy. Oh, he was making, yeah, he was basically saying you guys were, I almost identical twins. Let me look up this person. Hold on. Do you just want to see a picture of me hugging him?

1:41:52Yeah. So you can get a sense of what I'm talking about. Wow. Okay. For the listener who doesn't know. Dan Campbell. It's everything I'm saying, right? No. I'm about to say the actual opposite. The way you describe him is not accurate. Okay. I'm imagining who, God, how do I? Okay. I can't do this well. You were picturing like a monster from Game of Thrones, like the hound or something. But not muscular, really. Oh, no. He was a safety. This guy's extremely muscular. Oh, he's the most muscular. But when you say water buffalo, you have to understand what people imagine. Water buffaloes are pure muscle.

1:42:35That's why it's a great comp. It's not. Anyway, he's hot for the listener. This man is very attractive, and he's not what Dax explained. And he does look really tall. And insanely fat. muscular and fit. Yeah. And a very handsome face. He looks like he could just run right through a cinder block wall. I don't want to know because I think he's younger than me, which would be a bummer, but I think probably true. Not much. Not much? Yeah, not much. Okay. That helps. How old is he? 48. 48. Oh, okay. April birthday. Oh, here we go. Here we go. Rob's kind of got it. Look, I'm not, I'm not here to make you feel.

1:43:16Okay. First of all, there we are together. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I see what Aaron's saying. And Aaron, I have the advantage that Aaron's behind me. So I'm closer to Aaron than look at this. Oh, look at his back, Monica. Look at the fucking width of his back and how tiny my hand looks on it. Oh, well. Actually, that's not my hand. That's that's Keegan's.

1:43:42That's a lot of beef right there. Mm. Um.

1:43:49This is so stupid. I know. Anyone who watches football has a crush on Dan Campbell. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. I get it. He's like the rock of NFL. Okay. Ben Johnson. Oh, that's a heartbreaker. I don't want to talk about that. Why? We lost our offensive coordinator, right? Offensive coordinator. I thought you knew he died or something. No, the Lions off the coordinators now coaching the Bears. The Bears took him. Oh, this guy is attractive. Yeah. Dan Campbell. No. We already established he was. Now, this new guy is also very attractive, and he is 38. Okay. That is just a few months older than you. Correct.

1:44:27Oh, my God. What if you were dating him and I was dating Dan Campbell? We could go to the drive-in. We'd be rivals. Well, now because of Rob, because he's with the Bears. Well, if I'm dating him. But if he was still at the Lions, we'd both be rooting for the Lions. Oh, this guy was at the Lions? Yes, he was the offensive coordinator. Oh. Wow. Okay. So it worked out perfectly. We could go to the games together and sit in the box and cheer for our boyfriends. That'd be fun. That would be really fun. Just like Taylor, your best friend. Oh, yeah. How fun. Okay, wait. Real quick. You're not letting me get a compliment out.

1:45:03I agree with Aaron in that picture. You guys do look similar. God bless you. God bless you. If you hugged him, you would know we're not terribly similar. But I'm delighted that that's your verdict. Thank you. Now you know what it's like to be me. Like when I hug big men. Charlie. Yeah. It has a very specific feel. Do you like it or I like it? Do you like the feeling? Of being small. And safe. Yes. That's what I'm getting at. Like I'm hugging this guy and I'm like, oh, wow, I'm good. If whatever runs up behind us, a rhinoceros or whatever, like it's on him. It's his job. Wow. And that's very unlike you.

1:45:49Exactly. It's a unique feeling for me to be being held by a man that is so much more powerful and big than me that I know he should handle the grizzly bear when it comes through the door. And do you not feel that with Aaron? Aaron, I feel this perfect equanimity. Like, I'm a wrestler. He's a puncher. Together, we're great. We're a duo. I totally feel safe around Aaron. I know that like I don't need to worry about what's behind me. I know that Aaron's always looking out for me. I know Aaron that would jump through fire for me. Yeah. I think he feels that way about me. So, yeah, when I'm with him and this has been since seventh grade, I feel so safe all the time.

1:46:32Yeah. He'll do anything to protect me and vice versa. But if a rhino comes through the door, Aaron and I got a team up on it. I'm not like, Ryan, Aaron, go handle this. But if Dan Campbell was like, Dan, you're up. You would? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Wow. That's a first. I've not heard you say that about anyone. Hence my giddiness. Because you like getting into it. I like being the guy that confronts the Rhino, but also it feels very nice. That's great. To feel very safe that Campbell would be the one that would handle it. Pin in this. I want to circle back to something, but. Okay, great. Pin in the safety.

1:47:07Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry. So fast forwarding. Got to be on the field when they ran out. That was incredible. Met Will Ford. It was just very fun to meet the Ford family, chatted with a lot of different people. And then we were in the box with Roger Goodell. Roger Goodell is the NFL commissioner. OK. And has been for a long time. And just to put, I know it's terrible to quantify it this way, but it made me recognize how esteemed the job is. His previous contract is 70 million a year. And he just signed another three year contract. No one even knows what it is. But when you're paying someone more than Lewis Hamilton, I feel like you've got a pretty important job.

1:47:46All this info is coming from Aaron because he knows way more about football than I do. So Roger, people don't like him. Oh, I think it's the nature of the job. Yeah. No one ever likes the commissioner. No, no one ever likes the commissioner. That's why they have to pay you a lot. Probably. But I'm not entering with that kind of baggage. I don't dislike him or like him. I just am flattered. He wanted us in his suite. I think largely because of that Golden Globes thing I left one thing out before I went up to the suite they played a video on the big screen of me watching the Golden Globes watching the Lions game at the Golden Globes and then cut to you know and I had to wave and all that oh cute that is like McConaughey big time and I've been in that situation several times at Lakers games and these different games they'll put me on the Jumbotron and it's at best I would say it's in the past It's like a C plus.

1:48:41Like, I feel like generally maybe 30 percent of the Lakers crowd will know it's me and be excited. OK. Because of that Golden Globes thing. It was legit. You know, I've always said I never got I'm always envious of that experience. The American Idol people get where they go to their hometown and they're in a convertible. I didn't think that would ever happen to me. And I'm like, when does that happen? That it happened. Oh, they showed that thing. They cut to me and the place legitimately went bananas. Oh, that's wild. It was almost hard to accept. Yeah, that's sweet. But it was unbelievably lovely.

1:49:16I felt so loved by my people. Then back, okay, Godel, Roger. He was immediately most engaging with Aaron. Who wouldn't be? Asking Aaron a ton of questions, really engaging him, talking to me. But he's not playing the status game. There's a lot of people in the - Love that. Fucking Barry Sanders is in the box. He's the most famous Lions player of all time and the best player of all time and the best running back in history. He's in the thing. Roger could be chatting him up. He's talking to Aaron. I love him. Yes, he is. And Aaron's like, I was anticipating that I would have to see my way out of conversations while you did your thing with the person who got us the tickets.

1:50:01And I was like, oh, this guy wants to chat with me, which he did. He's so down to earth and he was so lovely and hyper intelligent. And you can see why he's 65 because I did make one joke that got him. We were talking about the thing I talked about on a previous fact check where it's like you used to be younger than the players. Now you're older than them, but you're younger than the coaches. Then you're now I'm older than the coaches and I hope to be younger than the owners. Thank God. Martha's with us. Ninety nine. I have a while. Yeah. and he and I weren't talking about that and I said well how old are you then he goes 65 and I go well you look fucking great which is true he's very fit and looks great yeah look up oh he looks great yep and I go you look fucking great you're definitely gonna make it to 70.

1:50:49oh and that that really tickled him that's fun okay so as you can see we were on fire we were screaming we were meeting people we idolize it was the two of us were from down the road in a dirt road and it was really really fulfilling and beautiful and i was sharing it with aaron and it was so special yay fighting back the tears the whole time and the game starts it's it's it's right from the get-go we cannot get a stop they they score every time they get it luckily we score every time we get it. Our offense is great. And it just, it just goes downhill and it gets worse and worse and worse and the crowd gets quieter and quieter and quieter.

1:51:31And I start thinking it's completely my fault because I haven't been to a game. And you hugged. And I hugged Dan. I'm sincerely regretting hugging Dan Campbell. I mean, yes. Yeah. But I think all fans do this. Carly thinks that the two games they lost this season was because Lola, her dog, didn't have her Detroit Lions bandana on. People do this. Now you understand am I knocking on wood? I do. I was taking a lot of the blame for it. It's not your fault. But I was also refusing to let the outcome take away what a fun season it's been. And then this crazy experience with Aaron that was as good as it could possibly get.

1:52:09Good. Remember when I thought that Trump won because my ring was off my finger? Yeah. And you said you're not that powerful. I kept telling myself. You said it in a nicer way, but you did say that. I was saying to myself to try to get myself out of the dumps. Yeah. You don't have any control over the defense. Be great if you did. Not that powerful. You're not that powerful. But I was afraid other people would think I was that powerful. Well, tell them now. Here, you're not. I'm not sure if it's not my. I'm only like 70 percent. It's not my fault. That's how I feel about Trump. I still feel it.

1:52:41I still feel like potentially it was the ring and the B. I feel like that's very universal. Rob, do you blame yourself when your team loses? Yeah, I've got lots of superstitions when I'm watching. Yeah, oh, remember Rob Reiner was on? He said he went to the bathroom and they scored. Yeah. So he had to keep going to the bathroom. Yeah, it'll happen. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

1:53:16Okay, you wanted to earmark safety. Yes, I did. So this is a big pivot, but it did remind me that while you were at the game, I had therapy. Oh, okay. I had two big epiphanies. You did? Would you call them breakthroughs? Yes. Okay. Guided by my incredible therapist. Your spiritual advisor? Yes. She's, she really is worth her money. Okay, great. Especially because you were a little bit on the fence on the New Year's about whether you're going to continue on. Well, yeah, I was like, maybe I just go to once a month. And now I'm like, I got to go back to two times a week. So the fires, you know, it was the first time I'd seen her since then.

1:53:58Yeah. And first of all, January sucks. I'm going to say that just like as a fact. Yeah. January is the worst month of the year. It's horrible. Bad things happen. Jan 1 is when I had norovirus yakking for eight hours. I'm kind of on board. The Lions lost. Three out of the five last Januaries have been horrendous. Oh, yeah. I got it. You're saying across the board, January blows. Januaries are bad. OK. OK. I'm sorry that your birthday is in there, but like it's a bad, bad, bad, bad, bad month. Weather generally sucks. Yeah. Weather sucks. People die. Like things go up in flames, literally. It's bad.

1:54:40But I do think they've all like taught me something. I've come out of the I walked into February with new information. It's been a gloomy January for a lot of reasons. Yeah. And I was talking to her about that. Obviously, for the fires, we were fine. Right. We didn't have to evacuate. Our houses are OK. Yeah. We have the best version of it. Exactly. So lucky. But still, it's just been like, oh, my God, there's so much loss everywhere. Every day you're hearing about somebody else, you know, who lost everything and you're trying I forgot how to help. And it's just like overwhelming. So I kind of figured it was just that.

1:55:13I was like, I think I'm just overwhelmed by everything going on. Then we kind of got to that. It was, I think, more than that and more personal. And I think people who are sort of struggling through this here who didn't who didn't have like massive loss but are still down. Yeah. Because I know a couple of people who are like depressed who aren't normally like I'm surprised. Oh. And I realized that like in the moment, especially in the moment when you're packing your bag up. Mm hmm. And it's I mean, you're panicked because you're like, I might have to be out of here in like 10 minutes. Yeah. You're standing in your house or apartment or whatever, and you are faced with the two most deepest, most existential questions that we have, which are, who do you really have and what do you really need?

1:56:12And it's both at the exact same time in a moment of panic, like you have to know the answer. Yeah. And I think we walk around with so much false security about those questions. Like, we think we know or it's fine. But this is like push comes to shove. What's the what's your reality? Yeah. Yeah. And the rubber meets the road in a evacuation. Yeah. Yeah. If you're forced to ask those questions and the answer is, I don't know. It's very heavy. Unsettling. It's very unsettling and destabilizing and like you feel untethered. Yeah. And I think that's potentially what that's definitely what I am feeling and what I think other people might be feeling, too.

1:57:04It's just going to take some time to process. Yeah. But I found that helpful to know like, oh, that's what I'm sort of struggling with. Right. It's a deeper. because you can't work on future natural disasters as a cure right you can only work on the things that actually emerged in that situation yeah that are personal yeah also she told me and this was also fascinating is in times of true crisis and this also happens like in death um people become their truest like most base version of themselves right and like not the person they've worked on becoming or are are mostly uh-huh but who they are at their core yeah and it's so true i was thinking about who i was and who other people were in my life and what was happening I think this is what I was bringing up about, like, we do have this genetic wiring to fulfill a role that when it happens, that thing really goes to the front and center.

1:58:23Yeah. Is it related to that or no? Yeah, I think so. I think it's connected. I think almost your genetics take over. Yeah. Not the artifice of your identity. But I don't know if it's genetic so much as. Yeah. Yes. Yes, but also what you did when you were a kid, how you coped, how you like a lot of like your biggest fears, your insecurities, those things come to the forefront and they're leading the charge. Like they are the thing that comes out. It's wild. And this is one of the times where. having a high a score is like really nice because you've already you've done a bunch of these you know i've done a bunch of police are at the house and fire departments at the house but you're still a person you're still a person in there you still have a a personality but i have a lot of practice like submersion therapy which is like yeah we're going dads in the middle of the night you live there now that's disruptive and then in sixth grade's fun you know like i i have a ton of personal experience where it's like i lived on the other side of those right does that make sense yeah and i think for a lot of people that have been terrified a bunch of different times one of the only benefits is like you're like oh yeah here's another thing yeah and it'll be all right yes i think there's like two things happening one is like what you're doing right and then the other is what you're thinking who you are in those moments like it is it's different right like i we talked about this before where it was sort of the first time i had to be like i have to do everything i have to figure out what i'm taking i have to load it in the car i have to make sure i have this this and this things i don't normal things i normally just say like whoever i'm with is going to do half of that stuff.

2:00:18Right. And so I'm, I'm doing it, but what's coming up and who I am in it and what I'm thinking is like, I have nobody. I am abandoned. I am really all I have is myself. I'm scared. Yeah. First and foremost, like that's, I'm scared. I'm a, I'm a fearful person and I have overcome a lot of that in life, but not in this circumstance. I can't. So it's like it's at a 10. Well, you've probably just been ratcheting up what level for you is manageable over time as you've grown. Right. Yeah. Like panic attacks and soul cycle versus now. There is a threshold that you've kept moving up. You can handle it and such and such.

2:01:06And then, yeah, some things exceed that threshold. Yes. And it also was, I think, important for me to have understanding for how everyone's behaving. Like everyone is going to behave quite differently because we are all different and had much different life experiences and deal with trauma in very, very, very different ways. Yep. because like on Tuesday Tuesday night the first night when it was starting I was like you know texting with every a lot of people yeah and I and and I was like I don't like I don't even know I don't know what to do I don't know how do we what Callie and I were both like well yeah we don't know what to do here like what where do we go what do we do we were also like kind of joking of course and then I was also texting with Jess and in my head I was like well Jess is down the street so like that's easy we'll go and then at like nine the other we start I start looking at the other fire the Eaton fire and it is getting like bigger and bigger and I called him and he was asleep and I was like oh my god how can you possibly go to sleep right now like this is crazy and then i was like yeah i think that's who he is in in crisis he like really calm but to almost like whatever happens is going to happen.

2:02:39I can't really control it. So I'm just going to go to bed. I have a question. Yeah. Potentially dangerous, but this just happened, right? It happened with Tom Hansen. I was, to be vague intentionally, I was very much on the verge of blowing everything up in a very public way because of my anger towards something. And I ended up sharing about it in a meeting that he was at. and in that chair he learns of the timeline so then he he calls me the next day because he's my dad and he wants to help me yeah and i don't i don't call him back and i don't i don't call him back for three days and finally in the third day he's like what the fuck's going on why won't you call me back and i finally facetime him and i go i didn't want to talk to you because i didn't want to hear the right answer i didn't want the right answer and i know you have the right answer yeah And so I was avoiding you because I wasn't there.

2:03:40I still wanted to torch everything. Yeah. And I didn't want to be talked down. And I apologize. But I just. So in that way, I think we often call people that we want to confirm the answer we're looking for. Right. I do it. I know people call me. Someone wants to buy a motorcycle. They don't call their doctor. They call me. Well, of course. But that's because that's your expertise. Well, and they know like I'm pro motorcycle. Right. Yeah. So I'm curious in that same construct, when you start texting people, do you feel that you start texting other people that you know will also be really nervous and not texting people that you know are going to tell you it's not bad?

2:04:20Hmm. That's a good question. The dangerous part is like what didn't happen was you didn't text me. Yes, I didn't. And you knew it wasn't going to go well if you did, which is fair. Correct. and we invited you over and you didn't want to be around my energy which would have been well there were multiple things happened there was so much happening then that that is more complicated okay um but back to do you think do you think that's happening at all are you calling the people that are going to most reassure you are they going to call the people that are going to confirm it's as scary and dangerous as you feel like it is that's a good question i mean i guess I'm probably, I'm probably reaching out to people that will confirm, but, but more I'm, I'm, especially in this case, I, I know, like, I know for certain that you aren't panicked about this.

2:05:15Right. So like me reaching out to you, all I would have been able. It's going to be frustrating probably. All I would have said is like, I'm really scared. Yeah. and then I think my fear then is if you respond without compassion right that will upset me yeah so what's the point right like I know where you stand on it and I'm not because I know what I would have been like first of all you will not die because you can get in your car and drive away from this fire right like I'd start going through the reasons that let's just start with you're not going to die tonight. Not going to die tomorrow. Yeah.

2:05:51Right. Yeah. And if your car doesn't start, you call me, I'll pick you up. Yeah. You're not going to die. Yeah. That would be like my first goal is just go like, there's a lot of things on the table here. Yeah. You might lose your shit. You might lose this beautiful house you've been building forever. Like we might get to that, but let's just, I would have just wanted to start with like, this isn't a tsunami and we live on the, no, I know, you know, like we can escape this. Right. Yeah. Which would have been helpful, I'm sure. But I don't know in that moment. What is out of 10 is I'm alone. Right.

2:06:26So I don't think like all I was really trying to do subconsciously is confirm that I'm not. Right. Or that I am. Right. Get some validation or confirmation. Yeah. And so I don't I don't know. I mean, I was texting the range of people that I was texting was not they were not wasn't all panic again, just slept. So I was like, OK. Yeah. Well, there's probably two things going on. There's like a logistical call list. Yeah. And then there's a comfort call list. Yeah. and yeah i i i probably would have been bad at it i would have gone straight into what i do often and try to avoid but still keep doing which is like not observe you but try to fix right the anxiety right i would be trying to point out you we are not going to die tonight you know i wouldn't i would be bad at going yeah we're here you know like i i wouldn't be good at yeah which is you You don't need to be good at meeting me at anxious.

2:07:30Like, I don't think that's good. I saw some people. I'll just leave it at that. And when I saw them, this was on Thursday morning. The look on both of their faces was and I registered. Oh, fuck. Their house burnt down. But it didn't. It didn't. Yeah. But maybe they were sitting with some. They were. I'm not. I'm not at all shaming anyone for how they dealt with it. But I went, oh, my God, clearly their house is gone. And it wasn't. So then I think the primal, primitive side of me goes, we can't have this. It's not productive. We are actually in a situation and there is not room for that. So snap into survival mode.

2:08:24Yes. And so, yeah, I think I can tend to get frustrated in that situation that I think certain people are making things worse. Yeah. In an already bad situation. Yes, I do think. And that was definitely the vibe of my household, you know? Yeah. So, yeah, that's. And I think I know that. Yeah. About you. And and sometimes that is where we butt heads because I feel like. I, I can should it's OK for me to care to be scared and scared and whatever. All. Yeah. And and you have no more control over your reaction than I have over mine. Exactly. I think all of those things would have been true if, if we were heavily interacting during all that.

2:09:16Yeah. And I accept it all. And I, and I cause a lot of that. Well, but the only thing I want it, the thing I need to say out loud that I hope you didn't feel is I would not be judging you or thinking you're stupid. I don't think there was any part of you that's afraid to tell me how you feel because I'm going to be judgmental of it. That wouldn't happen. That wouldn't have happened. And I don't feel that way. I do get pragmatic about if everyone's bawling before we've got in the car, that's going to be a really hard. Right. Totally. But do you. But I'm not angry at anyone for having their emotions or judgmental of it.

2:09:54I recognize and accept it. And I'm not. I don't feel above it. But do you think. And whatever answer is right. My guess is you think I overreact a lot in general, just in general as a person. See, it's the over that makes it a judgment. Right. Can I observe that you and I, like I break four ribs, break my clavicle into five pieces, break my hand, break my humerus, drive home six hours. We'll ride two more sessions on the track, drive home five, six hours, go to sleep. Don't go to the doctor. Don't go to the following day. So that's how I react to things. And then when you cut your hand, you were very scared and you reached out to a lot of people.

2:10:35So do I recognize the humongous delta between how you and I react to things? I absolutely do. But it's not over and I'm not under. It is. This is how Dax reacts for a myriad of reasons. And this is how Monica reacts for a myriad of reasons. And so that's what that's the thing I wanted to bring up and make sure you're crystal clear on. I'm not saying overreact. I'm saying I see how you react to things. I can observe it. It's much different than how I react to things. Yeah. But that does not make me conclude I'm better. I feel that you think that I get upset over things. Well, I do. I get upset over things that you don't get upset over.

2:11:23Yeah. To me, that's fine. Yeah. The things I get upset over, I believe are upsetting. Yeah. And I think it's okay to be upset about those things. and I understand that you don't. I do think at one point in our long friendship, I was like, why aren't you upset about this? I used to be like that towards you. I don't understand why you're not upset about this. This is upsetting. I don't think that anymore at all. And I respect that you don't, but I wonder if - Well, we can go right at it. There's a lot of things on the table here. Yeah. Do I accept that about you? Yes. Do does it make me love you less?

2:12:09No. Does it make me not want to be friends with you? Absolutely not. Now, you and I also do a job together. Yeah. We sit down in here to do a fact check and I sit down on a couch and I look across to see you. And often you're upset about things like the election and you can't shake it when you're in here. So now do I think inside of this box we have to be entertaining and we have to kind of manage how much of a downer we are? I do professionally. Right. I think we have an obligation. Like the newscasters got to come on and they can't start crying during the thing. Now they can feel however they want throughout the whole day.

2:12:47Go ahead. Well, it's just very subjective. Like you cry and people come in here and they cry and they're allowed. And it's actually some it's to me, it's an asset, not crying, but but what we've built here. And I do think it's we have built here a a place of honesty and to come in and to plaster a smile when when I'm scared or there's fires or there's an election that I think is deeply disturbing to me. yeah I mean I'm not saying we need to like wallow in it but I think it would be such a disservice not just to me to this show to our audience to what we've built here to pretend like those things aren't upsetting like it's fine if we have a bit of a difference of opinion on that I do think this show has to be entertaining and I don't think either of us can be in a shit mood for four weeks I think we have an obligation to rise above that I do and we differ in that and I understand what you're saying like well this is honestly me and of course i'm not trying to make someone not be honestly them but i know if i'm listening to howard stern and robin and one of them is just in a dark hole for three weeks i have compassion for them but i'm gonna go listen to something else at some point i can't join someone on my hour drive where i'm trying to feel where i'm trying to distract myself from the things i'm worrying about i'm looking for a reprieve so i I think it's okay.

2:14:24We do have different opinions on what obligation we have here to a degree. And I think there's only some, I think there is room for us to be our real selves. Yeah. But I also think it needs to be monitored and we have to be responsible to do these people that rely on us for an escape. Yeah. Deserve something fun and funny. a lot of the time. I get that. We did a really good job at that, I think. Yeah. Anyway. Do you think we did a good job at that? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, but we are running low on time. Facts. Yeah, we have facts. Okay, so this is for, oh, and I guess it's timely that we talked about the fires and stuff because this is for Josh.

2:15:13Gad. Gad. Wonderful. We deep dived. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Into that. He's a perfect guest. He is. He's a perfect guest. He really is. I DMed him and said so. Oh, good. Yeah. He's funny. He's smart. He's emotional. He's truthful. Yeah. Yeah. What a soup to nuts. Same with Adam Scott. I was really delighted with Adam Scott episode. Really, really delighted. Sweetheart. Okay. Josh Gad. You can gift up to$18 ,000 tax free, but now it's$19 ,000. Great news. Great news for everyone. You said your grandparents took you to Scarface in 1981 on opening day and you were six and it was 83. Not as good of a story.

2:15:59Well, eight is still young. It's still young, but it's not a great story. But you know what? We already know that you wouldn't remember it if it was six. So it actually makes more sense that you were eight. It does. It does. Well, here comes the great thing. And this is on topic because he's written a memoir. Yeah. I have tons of memories. I have tons of memories. And I know my kids don't remember shit. So, of course, I'm quite skeptical of them. But I could take a polygraph. Well, yeah, because you believe it. I do. So you'll pass it. I know. Every time someone says now, and I feel bad, but when people say like, oh, yeah, I was three.

2:16:39And I remember. I'm like, you don't. But, okay, I'm reading Bill Gates' book right now. Oh, he might. I believe it. Yeah. But his brain's different than most people's. so speaking of yeah easter egg i guess we can talk about this later maybe if you want okay have you started telepathy tapes no what is that i saw that in the comments it's a podcast okay about neurodivergent mainly non-verbal autism oh kristen listened to it yes she did um most of the The girls are listening to it in our group. And nonverbal autism. A lot of people have stories about their children. Communicating telepathically over a distance of miles, like in a town.

2:17:28Yeah. Meeting in a place called like Mind Mountain or something where they all. I haven't got there yet. But also they, mainly with their like parents. It's often. I mean, I'm only, I'm only one episode. I do think the human brain. Has more potential than we're aware of. Than we'll ever know. Yep. And I think I kind of do think anything is possible. Yeah. For the brain. I overheard a lot of it. I was debating not whether or not to listen to it. Yeah. I asked a friend that we very much trust you and I an incredibly smart friend. Yeah. He says there's little science to back any of that up. Yeah.

2:18:02And that'll be so hurtful to the people who have experiences and maybe they've experienced it, whatever. But I would need a pretty robust bit of science behind it to believe that people are telepathically communicating over miles. It's a tough one for me. I don't know about the over miles because I'm not there. Well, someone said something really interesting about it. They were like, we've all in some ways communicated telepathically, like non-verbally to people we are very hyper-connected to. Sure. And just in a room, you know, you can feel, we can feel energy shifting. There's real. But would you agree?

2:18:38I think that's way more pattern recognition. So like I know you so well. I've observed now so many contexts where things happen and then I see the results of it. Yeah. So often we're at a dinner and I hear someone say something and I know in a second what you're going to think. And then I look over at your face and then you look at me and I confirm. Oh, yeah, I do know exactly. And vice versa. Yeah. But that to me is more pattern recognition. Like, oh, stimulus A generally results in output B. But don't you think even when we're sitting here, I'm sitting there next to you. You can't see my face.

2:19:14Yeah. I can feel the fuck out of your energy. Yeah. Yeah, sure, sure. And vice versa. I do too. But I can't actually hear your thoughts. I know, but I think that's a little rigid, I think. Okay. Because all I'm trying to say is I think people do communicate non-verbally a lot and we don't even really recognize it. Yes. And I do think people are on a scale of how attuned they are to other people's energies. And it depends on the person, definitely. And so I don't know. I'm open to that being the truth. Let me just say, I want that to be the truth. Yeah. Yeah. I would love the notion that these nonverbal kids are communicating telepathically.

2:19:57I actually want that. Me too. But I have such a knee jerk about getting duped. Yes. Like, I know there's an emotional thread to this that makes it a little bit. And that is a red flag to me. It's like, yes, I think when you get me emotionally involved and I am very sympathetic already to the subjects. Yeah. I'm not really in my most subjective mind anymore. You know? Yeah. Remember the woman we had on. About hiring more neurodivergent people? Yes. And she herself is neurodivergent. Yes. And remember, like, she has synesthesia. She had the opposite of. She could just pull the meaning from a book from basically staring at the pages like she she does have skills that just boggle the mind.

2:20:40Yes, absolutely. Marine Dune. Marine Dune. Yeah. Marine Dune. That's all very interesting. And I don't know why I brought that up. There was a, oh, memories, maybe? Memories. We're about memories. Okay. Real quick. He said the funniest person he ever worked with was Andrew Reynolds, minus us. Present company excluded. Exactly. But we have not worked with him. So then it brought up this interesting question. Although you could count us doing an episode with him. I don't count that. That's our work. And his work is promoting. I don't count it. It's a stretch. Then that brought up this interesting philosophical question that's in my book Intermezzo.

2:21:24There's a really interesting question that comes up in this book I'm reading that's sort of similar to this of what's truth and what's a lie. And I'm going to we'll talk about it next week. I'll bring it up. OK, great. Yeah, read it. Do the thing from the book. Exactly. OK, well, that's kind of that's it. That's it. Yeah. All right. I mean, GLP ones, that was a really interesting topic and conversation, I thought. I was happy he talked about it. Yeah, me too. But also, yeah, they're just doing so, they're finding so much interesting stuff about GLP ones. And I'm interested. I'd say 10 % of Eric and I's conversations are about GLP ones.

2:22:03Yeah. Yeah. It's really wild. Very fascinating. I kind of want to try it. Oh, wow. Not for weight loss. No, not for weight. Yeah, not even for what I just want to see, like, what does it do on my psyche? Yeah, Eric's the exact same. Like, there's no shift other than he doesn't eat as much. Right. You know what I'm saying? And he doesn't crave sugar. And so he's not in a shitty mood because he hasn't eaten 10 pounds of sugar. So it's like it does impact his mood, but not because it's changing his mood, but because he's not actually dealing with all the fallout from. Interesting. Yeah. Again, it sounds all great, but beneficial to me.

2:22:41It might highlight what your addictions are. Because if you stop wanting something, it might tell you, like, actually, you crave that a lot. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, all right. So that's it. All right. I rode my bike by your house today. Oh, you did? Yeah. Did you wave? Yeah. Love you. Love you.

2:23:12Thank you.