Luke Combs

21:52And that's just what life is going to be like. And that's just how it is because I didn't know anything else. Well, no wonder you now think you aren't doing anything hard. Cause that was your idea of hard, not liking it. Exactly. Like not liking it was my version of like, well, I got to do something I don't like. Because that's just how life is. I have the same thing. When Kristen and I first walked through this house, we're just taking it in. And I said out loud a couple of times, like, I just didn't work hard enough for this. It's hard for me to integrate this because I should have a lot more calluses and I should have a lot more body injuries and I should be 68.

22:24Yeah. And it's confusing because no one got to fast pass like I got to. It's complicated. There's a lot of guilt associated with it. You know, all these great people you grew up with, like when I'm looking at the house And it's like, I can think of six or seven dads that killed themselves and they couldn't get this. And I'm like, those guys were better than I am. You know, they worked harder. They were tougher and they went through more. And I feel a lot of guilt about it. I do too. So we have a really close group of guys from back home that we text every day, pretty much. You know, there's like 10 of us maybe.

22:54I didn't realize how rare that was until my wife was like, you have 10 friends from high school that you still talk to every day. And you guys been playing fantasy football together for 15 years. Like, that's weird. Yeah. It's just not normal. By the way, I'm going to be saccharine right now. That's weirdly the biggest gift in your life. It's not even the success and the money. Without a doubt. Because I know a lot of rich, lonely people. That's the big win right there. Yeah, but I feel the same way. One of them's a pharmacist. One of them's a doctor. One of them's a CPA. They've all got MBAs and doctorates.

23:25Great jobs. They work their ass off. Oh, dude, it's like I would have been the most scum guy. They would have been buying your dinner every time you went out. A million percent. But I see those guys like, man, they went to school for a decade. I got all this stuff from doing what I like to do. You feel real guilty about it. There's no sympathy for it either. No, no, no, no. I feel real bad for you in your big house. You're having a hard time integrating your mansion into your... Right. I wish you luck with that, brother. By the way, let's talk about that because that's interesting. It's kind of a double whammy because you feel this guilt.

23:59And then you have exactly what you just said, which is then you feel guilty for even having that problem or being guilty about it. there's just layers of madness in your head about this thing that is what you dreamt about and what you want if i buy into it if i'm like oh man my life's great and i have all this great stuff and i deserve all this stuff then you feel like kind of a bad person a little yeah if i am like i got this great house then i'm a dick i think for me the fear is it'll all go away the second i think i deserve all this i'll find out real quick i didn't so it's like there's superstition too.

24:32The shoe will drop the second I think I deserve this. I think it's just being appreciative is the thing. That's the answer. And giving back to people. Helping other people. It's the only thing you can do, man. It's trying to like give stuff to people who don't have as much as you. And just being thankful that you're in the position you're in. I mean, that's always been my answer to it. Yeah. I mean, this concept of deserving is very silly. No one deserves anything. No one deserves the good stuff and no one deserves the bad stuff. That's without a doubt. It's not an appropriate word. I think you're right.

25:03Just having gratitude for the things that have come your way and just be like, oh, my God, what a gift. And then giving back. We were just talking about this recently. The only thing that I feel actually I can feel about money is when you give it away. Having money feels good because you can help other people. Yeah, you can help other people without a doubt. You always got to train your brain, though, to recognize that. For sure. I mean, I've always been a big, I'd rather give a gift than get one. Even when I was younger, when you're a kid, you love getting gifts because you're a kid. Man, once I got older, I was like, dude, I don't even want any gifts, dude.

25:35Like, let me give you a gift. That would be a bigger gift to me. I could rather see somebody get something. Okay, we got to go through a little bit of your stellar career. So while you're in college, you start bouncing at a bar. Wait, what college? I need to know. Appalachian State. Oh, nice. Where's that at? It's about an hour and a half from Asheville. They would consider it the high country is what they call it. Higher elevation than Asheville. Oh, real quick. Did you ever go on Sliding Rock or Looking Glass Falls? A million times. What a party. I have such a sweet spot for Asheville. I used to go there to do rewrites for movies, and I brought my three-year-old there, and I took her to Sliding Rock, and we did it together.

26:07So fun, dude. Sliding Rock's so cool. Is it a big rock that you slide on? Yeah, it's like in the river. It's like a quarter mile long slab. No bumps somehow. Yeah, that's fine. The last drop off if you're three is something, but it's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Generally safe. So you're bouncing at this place. Was it the kind of place you ever had to do anything? It's really more deal with college egos. Boone's like mini Asheville. Like it's very outdoorsy. The population of the town doubles when school's in. It's just all crunchy kids. Kids that want to snowboard and fly fish and kayak and hike. And like it's a super outdoorsy.

26:44A lot of Subarus probably still there. A lot of Subarus there too. Very much so. You get to perform there a little bit. And then you have your first actual show shortly after that. It was while I was there. It was the Parthenon Cafe was the name of it. Boone's Finest Greek Restaurant. That's your Bluebird? That was my Grand Ole Opry at the time. No longer there, RIP. Oh, bummer. It's no longer there. And did it feel right immediately? You know, it was really good. So I had been messing around with it, filming little covers in my apartment for, I don't know, maybe six months at that time. And putting them on YouTube?

27:16Putting them on Facebook, YouTube. So I felt like I was ready. Like, man, I felt like I could do a show. I asked the bar owner actually where I was bouncing at, which was a different bar. I was like, hey, man, can I do a show here? And he was like, oh, he's like, we don't do any live music because there's apartments upstairs. So it was a little mini strip malls, three buildings. There was the bar I worked in, a tanning salon, and a Domino's pizza. and there were seven apartments. You could have a nice day on top. Yeah, that sounds nice. Yeah, get your hair done. Seven apartments on top. And he was like, it's like in our lease that we can't do live music.

27:46I was like, I live in the apartments. Yeah. I was like, I know everyone that lives up there. We'd all be down here. And he was still kind of worried about it and didn't want to do it. And dude, me and him are still in touch to this day too. But I played rugby in college. So we hung out at a different bar, which was Parthenon. And the owner of Parthenon, his name was Nick And he was this wild card Greek guy. Just didn't give a fuck about anything. Sure. He was just like wild guy, man. So I asked him. I was like, hey, man, can I do a show here? He's like, yeah, just put it on the calendar. There was just like a calendar on the wall.

28:17So I just went and like wrote it on there. You put anything. We're doing a truck pulling here. I feel like people could have just came and wrote anything. And that's what would have been going on there. But it worked out, man. I charged a dollar ticket. I made 200 bucks, man. 200 people came. Oh, wow. That's incredible. It was not a place that could fit 200 people. Sure. It was a dependent on the day kind of place. There was a football game, slammed. It was Friday night, slammed. Saturday night, slammed. It was like grimy in the best way. You just get wings and you get a$5 pitcher of whatever left in the beer lines from the weekend before.

28:48And like that was just the vibe there. Not a lot of structure going on. But the place that I lived above and the place I worked at was a newer place. There was a local contingency, but there was also a really big student contingency too. So the owner was a local guy. So everybody he knew would come there and support his business. And then the kids loved it too. Anytime there's something new in Boone, kids are like, love that place, that's a new place, let's go. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

29:24So I went back to him when I went back to work. I was like, hey man, I just played across the street. There's a chance you could throw a football. You could see one from the other, but that's how small Boone is. And I was like, I played over there on Wednesday night and 200 people came. And he was like, really? And I was like, yeah, so I'll just keep doing that or I'll do it here. Yeah, yeah. And he was like, let's do it here. So then I played there every Thursday. Every Thursday. Over a year. It's been one of my biggest assets. By the time I moved to Nashville, I'd played literally hundreds of shows.

29:54We were booking shit as a band. It was just my name. So, I mean, I was cold calling places and getting shows. We're traveling all over North Carolina. We're starting to go to East Tennessee. We're going Northern South Carolina. And then all of a sudden, dude, we were playing at minimum three shows a week, sometimes five shows a week. Wow. In a town that's really small. Yeah. So then we booked a place called Geno's, and I believe that was every Wednesday. So we did Wednesday Geno's, Thursday Tavern, every other Friday at The Rock, every Sunday at Boone's Barbecue. You're a full-time musician. Right.

30:25Pretty much. And I had pretty much dropped out of school at that point, so I lived in Boone for a year just doing music. Were you having any problem doing three, four shows a week with your voice? I mean, I was smoking cigarettes then, too. Yeah. Getting drunk a lot or not too bad? Not a ton. At least once a week, for sure. Okay. That's not your thing. You don't struggle with that at all, huh? No, no, no, no. Whatever that thing is, I don't have. Yeah, yeah. That's lucky. I was like, throw a couple of hamburgers down here, we got a whole other problem. We got a new animal. Yeah, for sure. So we start doing that, and I'm realizing now, Town Tavern, there's lines to get in every Thursday.

30:57We're doing that every bar, man, and people are coming to see us because we're the only gig in town, really. And you're building a whole fan base. Yeah. So then, you know, we've got a Facebook page going. I'm doing cold calls. We're riding around in my bass player's Chevy Avalanche to gigs out of town. And I'm making press kits and mailing those out to bars and other college towns in North Carolina. Anywhere that would book us. This is the grimy good stuff that you'd miss out on if you just popped into American Idol and then had this record deal. Like this is the kind of Groundlings host your own show.

31:29Obviously, I had a lot of success on Vine around that time too, which was, you know, now defunct social media. You guys probably remember Vine. Yeah, yeah. The short video clips. Yeah. The new version of that is TikTok, right? And I think now a lot of that stuff's over. Yeah, you can skip all of that. You skip all the steps. And not that that's good or bad. I mean, I think it's really great for the artists to have a platform like that. There's people that their first ever show they've done is in an arena on tour with someone. The moment is too big for you, man. Not that there isn't people that rise above that.

31:58For sure there is. But it's like having your first football game at the Super Bowl. Without a doubt. That's too much. Without a doubt. First car race in Indianapolis. And then it's like if you screw up, then people go, oh, well, you're not any good. And it's like, well, God, I just played in the Super Bowl. What are we talking about? Of course I'm not any good. Country radio is still really big. It was even bigger when I started and even bigger before that. But like you go and do all these events for the stations. And the thing they love to do is guitar pulls. The litany of newer artists will come in and go, hey, we're in the St.

32:29Louis, St. Jude jam. They book a nice theater somewhere in town. The kind of usual suspects at my time be like me and Midland and Carly Pierce, people that came up at the same time. It's usually people that are kind of in that same class. But then every once in a while you get thrown on. It's like, oh, well, Luke Bryan's in one. There'll be five. You're all on stage at the same time. It's just you and a guitar. Oh, wow. Or you and one person playing guitar. Can you imagine being in that situation and you've got 250 ,000 TikTok followers and you've gotten a record deal and you come up and the guy that's played the song right before you is Chris Stapleton and you've played two shows.

33:07And also in your shows, you sing his songs. For sure. It's like, oh, God. But like that would be incredibly intimidating. It's nobody's fault. I mean, if anything, it's the industry's fault. Yeah, yeah. It's the tech industry's fault. The market's just driving it. You have this outlet. And fans want stuff. They want new stuff all the time. They want to be able to see stuff all the time. And I think the most interesting conundrum for us as artists that at least has come in the recent years, let's say you're going to put a new song out and you're a new artist. You might make 20 TikToks that are just this one sound clip of the song.

33:43You lip syncing it in your car. And then it's you lip syncing it with your dog. and it's like all these different things and you just do that over and over. Fans, they want to hear new music, but they want to hear new music that they already have heard somehow. I want to know that I like it before I've even listened to it somehow, which is in some ways an impossibility. Yeah. But it's like if you don't do enough of the PR, enough of the promo, your first week sales numbers are going to suffer. The fans aren't going to be as interested in it because they want to know, I already am going to like this.

34:17It's also unfair because I think it leads to a lot of backlash. There's an artist right now. I won't say who. I feel like all of a sudden everyone really doesn't like him anymore. There's all this backlash and it's because he was thrust, in my opinion. It's because he was thrust. He's also an incredibly talented guy, though. He's unreal. He's like Freddie Mercury. Yes. Like his voice is insane. Oh, that's awesome to hear you say that. His voice is insane. It's like ungodly. Who hates him? No, there's a whole like. The internet. Yes. The internet. What it's like, co-worker music. That's what they call it.

34:50It's like a big thing, co-worker music. It's because, in my opinion, he was everywhere all of a sudden because that's kind of who you have to be now. You do have to put your songs in all these things and be in this and be in this and be in this. And then they're like, actually, too much of you. Goodbye. Well, this is Ed Sheeran, who you did a song with. We interviewed him in England. And he's like, yeah, man, in England, they love the rise, rise, rise. But once you're at the top, they have a pretty quick like, OK, we don't want this. There's some kind of sense of, okay, you're too big. Now we're mad about it.

35:17We just had Drodd Carmichael on, and he said something that I thought was really interesting. He was like, people don't respect you if they made you. That was his explanation of like American Idol. It's like if they voted for you and they made you, they feel entitled to lead where you should be going artistically. Yeah, or rip the core. As opposed to you brought them along. It's interesting. We're in really international waters of what happens next in the music industry, I think. It's a very interesting time. terrestrial radio obviously in country it's still huge but streaming has been such a huge push when i get in the car i'm putting spotify on i want to hear exactly what i want to hear and i want to hear right now you don't hear new stuff you aren't exposed to as many new things because you're like oh i just want to hear familiar stuff it comes back to i want to hear stuff i already know i want to know i'm getting the same burger because i'm in my car i'm only drive 30 minutes a day for that 30 minutes i don't want to have to risk listening to something i don't like i want to listen to stuff that I already know that I like.

36:09That's right. And that's like a tough place to be as an artist. I remember when it was fun, when someone put a new record, I'm like, what's going to be on it? Is it going to be good or is it not going to be good? When you get to Nashville, you start self-releasing some EPs. And then on your third one, I guess, Hurricanes on that. It was just a single. It wasn't even an EP. I just put that one out. And that one got 15 ,000 in one week. I thought that was normal, by the way. I was like unaware that that was good at all. It's the same thing as the public school thing. This is a bubble that I know.

36:41This is must be how everything goes. So like you go, you start doing music. Your shows are going really good. There's lines out the door. People always want to come and then they buy your music and that's how it happens for everybody. So I get to town and I remember I mentioned it to somebody and they were like, how did it sell that much? I'm like, people thought it was good. So then people bought it. It's like how that happened. you know which is like 10 years ago maybe hurricane went number one in 2017 i put it out in 2015 yes 10 years ago it sounds like not because it sounds like you were just as you said yeah i put a song out and everyone listened to it that's duh my guess is you didn't have this but were you at all thinking like i don't look like the prototypical country star gosh yeah dude for sure especially at that time everybody was hot at that time keith urban's hair is to die for i mean luke bryant's guys, FGL guys, Sam Hunt, Luke Bryan, Chase Rice.

37:37He went to my high school. I mean, just six, four college football player. Like every guy had played college football and was dieseled out, like just good looking dudes. And when I moved to Nashville, there was a lot of like, I don't know if the artist thing's going to work because you're just not what works. But the guy that kicked that door open was Stapleton. He was a bigger guy. I mean, if you lived in Nashville, the guy was already a God before he ever got discovered. He's got 200 and something cuts as a songwriter. He's the best voice ever. Is he the king? You're among a few country people we've talked to.

38:09They all bring him up. I'm dying to have him on and talk to him. He's so talented. He's like Vince Gill or something. Vince Gill is just A1 songwriter, A1 guitar player, A1 singer, A1 producer. Can just literally do it all. There's not many guys that can truly do it all. Like if you're Clyde Drexler, you're great. and then Jordan shows up and you're kind of like, I'm good, but fuck, that guy's real good. And not that, if he was in here right now, I'd tell you I'm a better singer than that. I'm not. But it's like, you have to have that confidence, right? Yeah. It's like, there's just some guys.

38:44Well, some people are undeniable. Yeah. I mean, the talent level is just so high. So back to knowing that at that time, people are like, look, man, you've got all the things, but you don't have the package that's going to work, that's going to sell millions of albums. How are you dealing with that information? information i'm just gonna keep going yeah probably now if that teacher asks you the question now you have the answer which is like i'm not going to do anything else whether that's the case or not definitely i had so much confidence at that time in my ability you're coming from boone right so you're big fish small pond i had made one or two trips to nashville and met some people and written some songs with folks then when i got here i was like dude and this is not a cockiness thing this as a true gamer mentality for me, I was like, dude, these people can't hang with me, dude.

39:29Like I would get in rounds and I'm like, I will sing this guy out. I mean, he won't even show up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's never a competition. I think that's good. But it was just a confidence in like, I won't be denied because I feel I have the ability like, okay, I can play in the league. It's like you get in the NFL all of a sudden and you're like, I don't know, it was pretty good. I played at a smaller college. Maybe I don't have the combine numbers that this other guy has. Yeah. But put me in the A gap and he's on the other side and I'm coming out. I'm walking out. He's not kind of thing. And that was a little bit of my mindset when I got here.

40:03But also, I was already so happy with everything that was going on. I'm living in Nashville. I'm not having to work. You're making a living. I'm making enough money with no publishing deal, no record deal, writing songs five times a week, getting better every day, making progress and I'm paying all my bills. And to me, that was the definition of making it, man. Like I just wanted to be happy doing what I wanted to do. If you can support yourself doing something you love, forget it. That was it. Then I was like, well, man, this is my cheat code. I don't need anything else. I live in a nice apartment in Hermitage.

40:39What's better than this, man? Like I get to write songs all the time, sing all the time. I got great friends. I feel like I fit in, you know, like people want to write with me. And again, that's a very intoxicating time. And so for me, I just wanted to make a living doing music. You had probably already accomplished kind of the standard of living your parents had raised you under. Definitely. I can do this. No problem. There's no debt collectors calling me. This is all good. Hurricane kind of blows up. And then from this, Sony does sign you. And then they release this one's for you. They passed on me the first time.

41:09I always call it the Nashville no, which is like, well, we'll be in touch. We're not going to be in touch. We're not going to be in touch, which is the Southern thing. It's like, just tell me no. I'd rather just hear that. Right, right. We'll be in touch. And by that, I mean we will not be in touch. By that, I mean it's a no for us. Right. Okay, so what happens, though, is Sony does sign you, and then they release this album, and this album stays at number one for 44 weeks. Yes, nuts, man. It's a little shocking that you're not completely fucked up because, yeah, you release your song on your own, and 15 ,000 people get it in a week.

41:42You're like, yeah, of course. You do your first studio album, and it's fucking number one for 44 weeks. This is where I argue you're not lazy because a lot of people would put it in neutral at that point. Like, I don't have to try at this too hard. It comes pretty natural. It comes pretty easy. And or you could have become completely panicked that your follow-up album is not going to. You could have been burdened by that. Definitely. So how did you take that kind of crazy success? First five singles are all number one on that album. Dude, it's 19 or 20 now. I haven't had one not going to. Oh, my God.

42:11You haven't had one not. You got to prep yourself. It's going to happen at some point. Yeah, I'm aware. But then again, there's no pressure because it's so beyond what you even think's possible. First time I ever played Hurricane, I played at the 40 watt in Athens. That's where I went to UGA. I think it was Labor Day weekend and 86 people came. And I remember being like kind of bummed because we had been playing decent shows in that size venue. What's that place hold? Probably 500 people. Yeah, it's smallish. Yeah, it's pretty small. We had kind of been rocking those and my manager was like, it's Labor Day weekend.

42:45I was in school. I remember this conversation later. yesterday because I was really bummed out. And that was the first night I'd ever played Hurricane in a show. And he said, dude, I saw Florida Georgia Line here like five years ago and 17 people came. Oh, wow. And he was like, you got 88. And he's like, and they're doing pretty good. And I was like, oh, OK, that makes me feel a little bit better. It's been wild. But yeah, we did everything from the smallest place you could play to stadiums. My favorite thing he did is fast car. Your version of fast car is so great. That was one of my very favorite songs growing up.

43:18Interestingly, it was one of your favorites. What a fucking beautiful song. Oh, gosh. Were you afraid to tackle it at all? It feels like such a female perspective, right? The dad's a drunk, the husband's abusive. I think maybe I was just too naive to even be aware of. Think through all that. Yeah. Then again, man, that song's been covered like 1 ,300 times. Wow. There's like 1 ,300 covers for sale. Incredibly prolific song in a lot of people's lives. So again, I was not like, man, there's going to be a lot of eyes on this thing. We had some throwaway time at the end of the studio. Like it was never a plan to do it.

43:54I just always played it at shows and I hadn't since I'd gotten my deal. You had to have known from the shows though, that it was a big winner. Yeah. It was just the college shows. It wasn't like we were doing it on the arenas or at the club. I would do it in college and I really always liked doing it. And so we had an hour of studio time left that, you know, we had paid for, but we had recorded everything we needed and I was like what if we just recorded it we did it ended up putting it on the record and we didn't promote it at all I mean we didn't put any marketing budget behind it until it was top 10 at radio really I had another single out that was climbing the charts that went number one and by the time it went number one fast car was like number 12.

44:32Wow for whatever reason man it just struck the right chord at the right time well it's a beautiful combination of a great song and then a very wonderful interpretation of it. Yes. So when you guys sang together, first of all, answer this for me, because I'll be working out and that comes on my liked songs. And I do go. What was her journey? Did she choose to lay back? Yeah, I think she just kind of stepped away. The cool thing about her is nobody really knows. She's kind of an enigma. Yeah, for sure. And I remember when there was whispers of that happening, my team was like, well, I I think the Grammys are thinking about maybe wanting to do this.

45:11And I was like, dude, that ain't happening. Yeah, she's never doing this. I was like, bro, that ain't going to happen. Like, I remember just thinking, like, it's not going to happen. She just doesn't do anything. She's J.D. Salinger of the country world. Yeah, so they were like, would you be interested? And I'm like, well, fucking obviously I would be interested. I was like, it's not going to happen, but I would be definitely interested. So, you know, it's three, four months go by. And I remember I was sitting in the tree stand at my house, and Carla called me who works with Asha and does PR. And she was like, hey, Tracy's going to call you tomorrow at 7 o 'clock.

45:42I presume you've never met her at that point. Oh, no. No one's better. No one's better. Yeah. She hadn't commented in any way. My cover had already been number one and it's like the run was kind of over. There's no whispers at all. Right. Which is fine. I wasn't expecting to. Maybe she was expecting you to call her. I'm telling you, dude, you can't get in touch with her. Yeah. Because I remember when they were trying to figure it out, they're like, there's not a team. there is no one which is also the coolest thing it is the coolest thing the coolest thing in the world so next night i'm like doing bath time with my kids and it's chaos whatever but i told my wife like hey seven o 'clock your boy's off the clock yeah i was sitting at the kitchen table man it's just like sitting there with my phone on the table because i'm like i have a feeling she's gonna call like on time and like prompt and she did man it was like on the dot phone goes off it's unknown Oh my God, I'm nervous.

46:30Number, whatever. Yeah, I have a butterfly. Yeah, me too. Like, pick it up. It's just her, man. And I was like, fuck. I was like, this is crazy. Man, we talked for probably 45 minutes. Oh, really? Did she say I like your version? She did. She was like, man, I think you did a really great job. Oh my God. What more could you want? I'm such a big fan and I'm nerd now. I'm like, why did you do this thing when you recorded this song and this record? And I'm like, I'm just getting deep. She could tell I was a real fan. Yeah. I really cared about the records. She didn't say this, but I think that was her trying to figure out if she wanted to do it or not.

47:02Yeah. She's like, I don't want to go up with this guy if this guy sucks. Yeah, yeah. Pretty much. Which I got respect for. It was crazy that it happened. When the call ended, did she give you a, I'm going to do it? Or did you hear later? No. She wasn't like, yeah, I'm definitely doing it. She was just like, it was great talking to you. Yeah. How long after that call do you find out? It was probably like a month, I would say, before I heard anything. I mean, obviously, incredibly thankful that moment happened. It was so cool, not just for me, but I feel like for so many people to see her back out.

47:33It was unbelievable. That, to me, was the coolest part. It's just like her being out. I love seeing her sing so much. If I could have, I wouldn't even have been up there. I would have just been like, cool, can I just watch? Of course. She's so great. I love watching that. But the moment for me is she starts the duet. She does her couplet. Then we go to you or whatever we'd call it. Not a couple of it, but you do yours. And then when you throw it back to her, you look at her, whatever facade you might have had, it came down. You have this smile on your face when you look back at her, like your turn.

48:08That's so palpable. Oh, my God. I have full chills. It was so palpable. I rewound it like four times this morning. I just look at you, look at her, and I'm like, I think he's present for this, which is almost impossible to do. Were you present as fuck for that? Yeah, it was just so surreal doing that song with her. You know, I've been listening to that song since I was a kid. It's like one of the first songs I remember. It could have been almost too much to compute, but it does seem like you're there in your body experiencing it. The best part about that was she was really adamant about rehearsing a lot.

48:42She hadn't played in like 10 years. She came in just so confident. It was all the players from that record, like when she recorded it. She asked me to bring my steel player, so there was steel on it. So it was all the guys that played on the original record. We rehearsed for like three days. Oh, wow. Did you become friendly with her in those three days? Yeah, and so there was this full confidence. There's no question we're going to nail it. Yeah, you'd work through all the butterflies in this rehearsal. It's like, dude, I didn't rehearse three days for my whole tour. Right. You know what I mean?

49:12She wanted it to be perfect, and she wanted to have that confidence. It paid off. Yeah, to make sure it was great. And so that allowed us to be able to just enjoy the actual performance and not be swept up in like, oh, we're at the Grammys and like, what if we mess up? Like there was none of that. So here's an interesting thing. You have anxiety. Oh, big time. It's interesting anxiety, isn't it? Because you would think someone with anxiety performing would bring that out. But my guess is that's not where your anxiety lies. No, mine doesn't make any sense, man. It's a form of OCD. You have a very specific form of OCD.

49:47Yeah, so it's called pure OCD, which is like there's no outward compulsions. So you're not doing any behaviors that are observable. Yeah, the behaviors are all mental. It's just rumination. Yep. Mental rituals. So did you have tics when you were a kid? No. I would say 99.9 % of people who have it, no one would ever even know. I'm not. But in theory, I could be having it right now and having this conversation. And it's like there's almost two. Yeah. Almost the subconscious is having the conversation, but the real focus is on. Yes, correct. The internal compulsion, is it something specific? Yeah.

50:20There's a lot of themes that are very recurrent for people that have this. Religion is one. It essentially preys on the antithesis of who you are at your core. Yeah, yeah. But it focuses on questions that are unanswerable, which is like, do I really love God? Do I really believe in God? Yeah, what percentage do I? And then you spend over 90 % of your day thinking about that. Wow. And that could happen for months on end. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. That's maddening. Is it too private for me to know what your themes are? No, I've had a ton, man. Like people have violent ones. Am I some sort of serial killer guy?

50:55We had an OCD expert on it. It was very illuminating that the kind you see in movie is the lowest percentage of OCD. It's mostly people who are like, they're afraid they're a pedophile. They're afraid they're a murderer. You can touch all of them. And there's some that for whatever reason, if you weren't really religious, you wouldn't really have the God one because that wouldn't be as important to you. It's things that there's never an answer to. There's people that are like, am I gay? Am I a pedophile? Am I a serial killer? I'm driving down the road. Am I going to just swerve into this traffic?

51:24And it's like, you're not ever going to do that. I know. It's like seeing a grizzly bear come out of the woods, but it's in your mind. Yep. Yes. It identifies a threat, but that threat's not there. And then it just obsesses on the threat. And then it's like, but it was real because I thought that for a second. People have those kind of thoughts all the time. And they just like, oh, that's weird. It's like a bird flying by. Yeah. Oh, there's a bird. And then you're like, what was that bird? Why did that bird fly by? And then the more you wonder why the bird flew by, the more it starts flying by.

51:52Your brain's like, I need to send that thought again because you're worried about it. And you being worried about it must mean something. Yeah, yeah. Really, it doesn't mean anything. Then the more you think about it, the more it starts showing up. It starts going by and by. And then you start wondering more and more and more. And you do things mentally, ritualistically to alleviate the anxiety of the bird showing up. So what's one of the rituals you can do mentally? Say, for example, you think in your mind, you're like, I'm going to swerve my car into traffic. One could be, and this would be, I guess, technically an outward one.

52:24It doesn't happen. It's like reassurance seeking is a big one. Let's say me and you were really close friends. Yeah, we will be. I could be like, you don't think I would ever plow my car into like the sidewalk. And you'd be like, dude, what are you talking about? No. And then you're like, thank God. I obviously would never do that. Right. But that reinforces the importance of the thought to you by me asking you that. Oh, interesting. So the alleviation, the reassurance seeking of me wanting to like quill the uncomfortableness that the thought gives me makes my brain pay more attention to it. Yeah.

52:56Because then I'm caring about it. You're giving it power. Attention and focus. So the real trick to overcoming that is going, yeah, I think I will plan my car into a bunch of people. Letting your brain go there. Or just being like, maybe I will plow my car into a bunch of people. And when that happens, we'll deal with that at that point. Whatever. Maybe I am, you know, insane. Gay pedophile. Yeah. Murdered guy. And you know what? That's fine. Right. Because if that happens, then whatever. That's what happens. That is what it is. It's just being like, yeah, whatever, man. It's like, it's all good.

53:29But I would say definitely the course of my life kind of has been dictated by that at certain times. For me, when I was in my early 20s and I just moved to California, I was super lonely. I was ruminating quite a bit on I thought I was going crazy. Mental illness is one. Like, am I schizophrenic? And I don't know it. What if I'm in this podcast and you guys aren't even real and I'm sitting somewhere in someone's garage going, well, yeah, I'm a famous country singer and blah, blah, blah. Oh, God, I've had this thought. Imagine thinking that and like the normal person might be like, man, that's a really strange thing.

54:02And they think about it for one minute. Right. But imagine that thought comes and it's like a nuclear bomb goes off in your head and you can't stop thinking about it for six months. Oh, my God. And you never, and I won't say never, but for the most part, I would think in my experience, you never have two themes at one time. Oh, interesting. Right. There's not room for two themes. Right. Like it's almost too much bandwidth. Let's say you're worried about religion and it's the most important thing in the world to you. And then one day you have the car driving thought. instantly you think about the religion.

54:35We were like, bro, how dumb was that? Oh, wow. I can't believe I wasted three months of my life worrying about this thing that's now is so inconsequential. But then it could come back in five years. It's whack-a-mole. People always reach out to me about it because there's not a lot of people who've talked openly about that particular form, which a lot of people have. And I would say 99.9 % of people suffer in silence with this thing. Because how do you tell your parents when you're 12 years old that you're worried about being a pedophile. You think you're going to stab someone with a kitchen knife.

55:06Yeah. Like people will think you're insane. Yeah, you're very afraid that they will take the action. Yeah, they'll be like, hey man, something's wrong with my kid. And not he has a mental illness. It's like my kid is a psychopath. Right, exactly. You also have some clarity, right? I'm like, I think I am slowly kind of going crazy here. But then I also have moments where I'm like, no, you're not. Everything's kind of groovy. Right. And you're afraid if I give over this information, someone's going to assume the worst. we're going to have a DEF CON 5 reaction to it. And I do at times realize I'm not.

55:35That's the thing is none of it ever makes any sense. If you told someone you were worrying about it, they'd be like, what do you mean? Yeah, they'd go stop worrying about it. They'd be like, there's nothing about you that would make that true. Even telling people that is counterintuitive to the healing process. If you are or not like that, it just doesn't even matter. I know right now that I could get in my car and it's an hour drive home and I could have a spike that sends me into a three-month spiral. But also, I'm just not afraid of that at all. You just have to know maybe at another point in my life, I'll have another one of these and that's okay and I'll deal with it when it happens.

56:12And I think that's the freedom. I mean, it took me five years to even figure out what it was. Yeah, I was going to say, you seem to have a lot of awareness and tools. Did you receive these from therapy? Yeah, the behavioral therapy part of it is huge. It's having the toolkit to combat it and knowing what's right and what's wrong. You can never solve it. It's like addiction. It ain't going away. The big key is knowing that you'll never have an answer to any of these questions. You answering the question will never cure you. Or you trying to find out the answer is never going to cure you. It's an illusion that you can figure it out.

56:43Right. Because if it was two plus two equals four, you wouldn't have any anxiety about it. Exactly. Because you would just know. Yeah. And you could know an answer and you could get a test and that's the answer. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

57:07Yeah, so how did you learn all this? I'm better at that probably than I am at country music, to be honest. I mean, just from years of experience. I mean, just 10 ,000 hours times a million. But no help. Or did you go help? I never really had a traditional CBT therapist, honestly. It was just once I found out what it was, that probably happened at like 21, which is the same year I learned guitar. Oh, this is what it is. There was a lot of relief in that. Yeah. I was like, oh my God. Well, you're not alone. Other people have this? Right. What are we talking about? Yeah, the isolation of it is sometimes the worst.

57:44This can't be like, I must be crazy. Nobody understands. Obviously, my parents were really worried, but they're like, we don't even know. I went to therapy in high school and it was like, oh, you've got generalized anxiety disorder. And I'm like, okay, well, that must be what it is. But it just didn't feel like. Specific enough. This feels different than that. Once I found the Pure O thing, it was like, oh my God, this is the thing that I have. Yeah. Do you think this could potentially be one of the reasons when you say you were lazy, quotes in school, like this was happening in your brain. Pretty distracting.

58:17As a kid, how could you be doing all these things at once? So many times in my life, I feel like I was on the cusp of like figuring out or achieving something. And then I would have one of these spikes and it would be like, well, there goes everything. Because I don't care about anything else now. Because I'm so worried about, I'm crazy. I hesitate even saying these things because I feel like sometimes people are going to watch this and they're going to seek reassurance from hearing me talk about it. Like it'll trigger the wrong reaction. Yeah, like they'll go, oh, gosh, well, then he said this thing, and that made me feel better for 10 minutes, and so I'm fine for 10 minutes.

58:53But it preys on everything you're not. Right. And it makes you feel like you are that, when in reality, in some ways, your deepest fear is being something that you're not. And that's rooted in this. Another big one is relationship, OCD. One of the themes of Pure O is like, do I really love my wife? I really love my kids. Oh, yeah. And there's no answer. Obviously, you wouldn't be worried about it if you didn't. That's right. And that's the thing. But telling people that is giving them reassurance. People who don't love people aren't worried that they don't love them. Yes. When you look at the list of people I don't love, I'm not sitting around worried that I don't love them.

59:30Oh my gosh, do I love them or do I not? No, it's quite evident. I think this is so interesting. Explaining it's actually bad. It's a catch-22. This is good for everyone to hear, even if you're on the opposite end of it. What we shouldn't be doing is be like, oh, but you shouldn't worry about that because you're not that. That's actually not helpful. That actually makes it worse. Yeah. Which is so confusing. It's such a confusing hamster wheel. Getting out of the loop is so confusing. Until you know how to do it, you can't do it. The research on it has come a lot farther in the last 14 years than it did even when I was 21.

1:00:02There was basically one doctor that even was doing anything on it at that time at 21. Yeah. Now there's a lot more people who are saying that, oh, yeah, I've got this thing. And do you think it's nature or nurture or a combination? A hundred percent nature. It's like having bipolar. It's just wired that way. It's just how your neurons fire. Have you come to find an upside of it? So for me, I very much think of I'm an addict across the board and it kind of works in most domains until I get to that one. But my obsessive nature and my ruminating on how to make the show better, how to do a better job.

1:00:37Like that's all the same package that makes me me. Sure. Do you think there's been an upside? Do you think it's part of your success as well? No. No. I don't think it's part of my success at all. If I just never had it, that would be awesome. Yeah. There's no good parts of it. That's a good answer. There's no good parts of it other than when you don't have it. Yeah. Maybe like you recognize. When you don't have it, you're like, bro. You feel good. Life is just incredible. I will tell people this, man, at least in my experience, it's been something that's gotten better for me. Do you think kids help?

1:01:07Certainly. Yeah. I mean, there's less time to worry about that kind of stuff. But kids could also easily be a trigger. OCD people think they're going to hurt their kid. Sure. They're going to kill their kid. They're going to molest their kid. They won't change their kid's diaper. For sure. It's a unique experience in each individual, I would say. Obviously, there's patterns that are recognizable in people that have OCD, especially this form. But I think knowing that you have it is a big part. Anybody that has it should definitely do their research on it. But I don't even have to tell those people to do it because they have.

1:01:38Right. Because they're sitting on their computer all day going, am I this? I was going to say, imagine being in fight or flight mode 90 % of the day. Yeah. Yes. And you're actually bizarrely now almost going to manifest some health condition. Sure. Because you're going to be under stress all the time. Well, I'm glad you're talking about it. Me too. Oh. I think it's harder if you're a country star. Yeah. Actually, probably. Every actor I talk to, they've all been in therapy. We've talked to all the countries, no one's going to therapy. There's like some cultural stuff. For me was finding out how can I make this happen less, not from the therapy side.

1:02:14Obviously that helps a ton. But for me, it was like, man, how can I just change what I'm eating, what I'm doing? My life revolves around preventing it, right? So like, I mean, I don't eat gluten anymore. Me neither. That was for sure somehow involved in my inflammation levels were really, really high. And obviously your brain is really inflamed. That's been a big one for me. It's a wild journey. Luke, you're a very sweet, talented person. I'm really delighted I got to meet you. I'm really grateful you're willing to come over today and chat with us. And I just also want to give you a big high five for fucking raising$24 million for Asheville, this town I love.

1:02:55Yeah. 24 million bucks. That's amazing. Congratulations on everything. I mean, you're so young. I'm excited to watch you continue to do radical stuff. Is there anything we got to promote specifically? I got a new single coming out. It's called Back in the Saddle. Okay, so Back in the Saddle's coming out. July 25th. Oh, great. July 25th. And tell me, where are we going? I think we're going backwards in a good way. You know, the last record I put out was Father's Day of last year. So it's kind of more of a niche project for me. You know, it's more of a personal. Yeah, you got two little boys. You know, I got two little kids at home.

1:03:28So it's been two and a half years since I put out a record that was meant to be heard by a lot of people. That's kind of where the back in the saddle thing came in. We'll see. We'll see if people care. I'm excited. All right, Luke. Well, I hope I bump into you a bunch while we're in Nashville. Yeah, absolutely. You're delightful. Get that Raptor R down here and we'll find some trails. Bye. I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong. Smells different in here. Oh, God. because of me? No, it's not a human smell.

1:04:06It's like a... Musty. Yeah, musty old air conditioning smell or something. Well, it's been musty in here. It might be me because... Are you musty? Well, I'm wearing a vintage shirt. Oh, and it could have some must stank on it. Yeah, sometimes vintage comes with a little must. I don't think it's that. Although I came in here earlier to set this down and I didn't smell that. Should I smell? No, it is smelly. We must find out now. Well, it is smelly musty, but I don't think it could be that strong that you smelled it coming in. It's not this piece, right? No, it's not. It's the t-shirt? Yeah. Okay.

1:04:51No, that doesn't smell bad at all. that's not it are you sure okay well i smell it like you know when you put on clothes that aren't your smell yeah yeah because i have this isn't washed oh i'm outing way more common when you're young right like you're at a friend's house you didn't intend to sleep over yeah i can sleep over can i borrow something as an adult i'm not swapping clothes with many people are you Yeah. You're not. You're not a girl. Yeah, you're not. Like, girls borrow each other's clothes. Still, like, in her 40s? Yeah, of course. I mean, not, like, on a daily basis, but if I'm, if I am.

1:05:31When's the last time you borrowed an item of clothing? I mean, I'm sure I've borrowed something from Kristen upstairs, like, many times. I'm sure. You don't remember the last time. Like, probably I'm over and it's like, oh, I need to wear a bathing suit. This is a hypothetical. Do you remember the last time you— Oh, my God. Should we call her? She won't remember. Are you kidding? You're just so particular about your clothes. I am. I'm finding it a little hard to believe that you're in your friend's clothes a lot. Okay. Do you want me to, like, really peek behind the curtain? I do. Let's go all the way.

1:06:04Okay. So, like, sometimes we record two. Back to back. Yeah. Yeah. And then I—you change shirts because your closet's here. And then I'm like, oh, fuck, like I probably need to change shirts, too, but I didn't bring any. So then I'll like go borrow something. I've done that recently. I'm very unsure of when this happened. Well, I don't write it down in my pocketbook. I agree that this seems hypothetically plausible. I agree you're like, I need another shirt. Kristen's got a bunch up there. I'll grab one. Also, I do a lot of closet clean out. Yeah. A lot. and then I'll make big heaping piles of clothes.

1:06:44And then people come and they take them. Yeah. And so then they're wearing my clothes. Sure, that I buy. So women are taking other people's clothes. Okay. So you don't have an exact memory of the last time you were walking around town in one of your girlfriend's clothes. Not a precise memory, just more of a hypothetical memory. Next time I'll write it down. Okay, keep a journal. I'll keep a journal. Okay. But vintage clothes and shopping, I don't normally wash it immediately. That's gross. People are going to probably be grossed out for that. I don't know that I have either. But vintage is a little trickier.

1:07:24It is. But also, what do people think they're getting? Like, you're moving around. You're in a Starbucks. There's 35 strangers in there. Everyone's coughing and sneezing and talking loudly. There's spittle everywhere and airborne contaminants and contagions. Legionnaires. Yeah. What do you think you're getting from someone's T-shirt? There's no, we know your skin's the largest organ, but it's not like anything's like, they're not using it as a tissue or toilet paper. But psoriasis. Is not contagious. But you wouldn't want it. Like, okay, we have to be realistic. Aren't there people in the world?

1:07:58We don't have to name names. I have psoriasis, so go ahead and name me. No, I'm not. I've moved on from psoriasis. Oh, you did. Okay, I'm still there. Yeah, I'm sorry. It's a large accusation to levy at someone. I was just thinking about the guy from Armchair Anonymous where he had his skin across the entire. No, he had psoriasis and it was across the entire apartment. Remember, the whole apartment was covered in skin. Yes. So you probably wouldn't want to borrow his shirt. And it's nothing against him. But like, I think we could agree. I agree that it would be gnarly. And I don't want to do that.

1:08:33But also you won't catch anything. No, you're not going to catch anything. I think people have more. It's more of a. It's not like I'm going to get a disease. Yeah, it's cooties. I was just more objecting to people thinking that's like gross, like you're going to catch something. And I just don't think you're going to catch something unless you're borrowing someone's old used underwear that has a current STD. Or bacteria. Because you get a UTI. Yeah. I imagine that I think they wash it. That's hopeful. It is hopeful. I do think that's the express policy, but you're just putting a lot of faith in whatever hourly person that day was like, you got to wash all those before you open the register.

1:09:18And they're like, you got it. I mean, that's a real. Oh, my God. At the end of the day, it's humans. It's humans. I know. And they're fallible. That's the harsh realization of the world. Our pilots are humans. My father-in-law sent me an article this morning from the godfather of AI. Now, a lot of people have this moniker, so you don't really know which one is the true one. We know the godmother of AI. Faith Hayley. But this gentleman worked at Google. He has since left. He does have a Nobel Peace Prize. Oh, who is it? I don't remember his name. I could look it up real easy. Why wouldn't I honor and credit this person?

1:09:54But what he's urging people to do is design AI with a woman's instincts, basically. Geoffrey Hinton. Okay. Okay. He says, listen to this. Well, first of all, did you hear that an AI model tried to blackmail an engineer about an affair that it had learned about from email? No. Yes. What the fuck? See, oh, my God. Okay, Hinton presented an intriguing solution, building maternal instincts into AI models so they really care about people. Even once the technology becomes more powerful and smarter than humans, AI systems will very quickly develop two sub-goals if they're smart. One is to stay alive, and the other sub-goal is to get more control.

1:10:45There's good reason to believe that any kind of agentic AI will try to stay alive. but there's one sentence in here that's really incredible oh he noted that mothers have instincts and social pressure to care for their babies the right model is the only model we have of a more intelligent thing being controlled by a less intelligent thing which is a mother being controlled by her baby that's a fascinating framing of it isn't it that is the baby is In control. In control. And they're just stupid babies. But you're fully committed at all times to sacrifice whatever you needed to do for them. Yeah.

1:11:26Wow. That's wild. Yeah. That's cool. It's like the most distinct in a mother-child relationship. Yeah. But also probably a human-to-child relationship. Like if there's a kid around and you're alone with them and you're an adult, like an instinct does kick in that you have to help that kid or take care of that kid or, you know, you're not just going to walk away from a kid by itself. Yeah, we're susceptible. We're hardwired to respond to things that are cute. When the eyeballs are disproportionate to the size of the face, we get really nurturing and empathetic. That's neat. Yeah, that's what AI needs.

1:12:07That's why Vinny's so. AI needs to look at humans and think, they're so cute. Look at them. They're gangly and they're walking on two feet. No one else is. Yeah, but what are they going to do about the fact that humans, like, kill people and are really mean and bad? So do, you know, babies break things on accident and they do naughty stuff. On accident, though. Or on purpose. Sometimes they slap their mom in the face. We know that. Sure. You've seen that video of Delta attacking me over and over again. You're in trouble. Yeah. She's leaping at me and lunging. Well, in that case, though, you were in trouble.

1:12:40I was not in trouble, as I made very clear in the video. I did nothing. You were in trouble because she decided you were in trouble, and that means you were in trouble. You were in danger. But then she wanted to give me a necklace, and she decided I was not in trouble. You're not in trouble anymore.

1:12:57Yeah. It was very nice to get back to my little sweeties last night. Were you happy? Yeah. Yeah. How do you feel? You're back home. I feel dicey. I feel like I'm on re-entry. Yeah, sure. Re-entry. You didn't feel that way. I think this is the longest I've been gone from L.A. since. Without a paddle, maybe. Wow. Or when in Rome, maybe we were gone for two months. That's a long time ago. Yeah. 56 days. That's really long. Almost two months. Yeah. Time is wild. Walked Lincoln the first day of school today. Oh, today was first day of school? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Seventh grade. I mean, I try not to jinx her, but I'm so excited for her.

1:13:42Oh, that was a big year for you. Best year of my life. Oh, yeah. I don't think you have to knock if it was already the best year of your life. No, it's for her. They can't take it away. It's for her. Oh, okay. See, I'm taking care of the child in this situation. Because you're like AI. You're agentic. Yeah, seventh grade. we our friends have a child who just turned 16 and we were at her birthday party and i was like and this is a kid we've known her whole life yeah yeah and like i really held her as a tiny newborn baby yeah i didn't know her that little but since she was she was like five probably yeah And that was so weird.

1:14:28Was it? Yeah. Is she getting her license? Yeah. She's like driving. She is. Oh, my gosh. I know. How exciting. Obviously, you know this and all parents know this. But when you get to be an adult, time is just kind of stagnant, right? Like unless it's your birthday, I guess. But like you're barely even that. You're not really whatever. You feel the same age. and then you're kind of doing the same thing every day or whatever, you know, you're living your life and you're not as aware of the passage of time, but kids make you so aware of the passage of time. It's like a nonstop sense of like, oh my God, they're getting older, which means time is passing.

1:15:10I'm getting older. It's like, it's really intense. And she's 16. She is going to be an adult in two years. When we're done with this contract, she will be an adult. Oh my goodness. She can. That's wild. She can do what? She can vote. She can vote. She'll vote. But like, that's crazy. It is crazy. She'll go to college. I had that moment this morning. I was like looking at the school and it has the established date on Lincoln School. And I was doing the math and I was like, oh, this school year when we hit 2026, your school will have 120 year anniversary. Oh, cool. And then I was thinking that sounds so old.

1:15:55Yeah. But it's only two of my lifetimes, which makes it feel not old. Exactly. I get so confused when I start doing time as multiples in my lifetime. Yeah. Because I'm only six of me away from the revolution, basically. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? It is crazy. But also think about six. Like you've, a lot has happened. I mean, it just goes by so fast. Exactly. This stuff is all like five minutes ago is what I'm saying. I'm feeling very nostalgic right now. Okay. Or like currently. Not today, but just in the past couple weeks. You're in a nostalgic era. Yeah, because, well, my birthday is coming up, so maybe that has to do with it.

1:16:36Yeah. And this child turning 16. That really sent you for a loop. And I rewatched Girls. I watched the whole thing in a week. How many seasons were there? Six. Six. Ten episodes each. Pretty much hour longs. Okay. And you loved it. Oh, my God. Better this time around? For me, it's so much better because the first time I watched it, I think I couldn't really watch it. Like, I was their age. Yeah, I was like their age. I was in my 20s. I was stressed out. I didn't know what my life was going to be. I was them. Yes. And it was too much of a mirror, and it made me feel flaily and anxious. Yeah. So I don't even think I finished it.

1:17:22Okay. Watching it now. What is the big accomplishment you think of it? Just how authentic it is? It's so funny. Like, she's so funny, the way she writes. She just has my number. Like the way she writes and storytells is is so it hits like such a chord. There are so many moments. This happened in too much. Also, the show that she created, the new show where like I'm like going to cry. But I feel like if I start crying, I'll never stop crying. Wow. Like she has that there's like this ability to like untap and then I'll just leak out for the rest of time. Like I won't. It's what it's just. And is it a feeling of sadness?

1:18:13It's such a specific feeling. It's it's nostalgia, I guess. Well, that there's a layer of that. There's a nostalgia. there's a like life is so beautiful and hard and complicated and relationships are so complicated but they're so they're so beautiful that we get to we get to engage like this in in life like it's it's so intense like it's such an intense feeling of the reality of being and how messy Uh-huh. Sure. It is. And she's just so funny. Like, the first time I watched it, I wasn't in—I hadn't hit that stage in life where I watch everything with subtitles. Oh, uh-huh. Which I do now. Even American shows.

1:19:04I watch everything with subtitles. Okay. And so I'm not missing any jokes. Like, I'm serious. But are you missing any visuals? Because that's my issue with subtitles is I have to concentrate quite hard to read the subtitles, and I'm missing a lot of the visuals. Yeah, I. And if they're there, I'll read them, even if I'm understanding it perfectly. Yeah, I understand this dilemma. Comment on whether you watch the subtitles or not. Dax will read them. I think I'm just so used to it now. I don't think I'm missing any visuals. Okay. And I'm not missing any nuance or jokes. And I think I could have before.

1:19:43Okay. So you're kind of reading the script and watching the show at the same time. Do you wish they put the description of the scene on there, too? No, they're doing a great job visually. A sparsely decorated one-bedroom New York apartment. Yeah. So anyway, that show is making me feel very nostalgic. Uh-huh. And so I'm just in like a wispy mood. And are you, do you have feelings about summer ending? Yeah. Are you ready for fall? I love fall. Uh-huh. I'm really glad fall is after summer. Okay, and not spring. Yeah, because I don't love spring. Okay. Spring's fine, but fall's cozy. It's sweaters.

1:20:26It's— Warm drinks, football. Yeah, old fashions. I was thinking about the service that football provides for a lot of Americans. Yes. You're so sad summer's over. Yeah. But for so many people, like tens of millions of people, the excitement of like, oh, football's back. And I know what I'm doing on Sundays and Mondays. Exactly. I don't indulge. Yeah. But I get it. Yeah. Maybe you should get into it. I think they like deserve, like they're pacifying a nation. They're really, they do provide a service to bring out of the summer blues. Yeah, it's true. But even just like then Halloween is coming and that's on the horizon and it's like, what are we going to dress up as?

1:21:10Yes, there's a lot of talk about the costumes already. Okay. I'm out of the loop, but I'll do whatever. It's best that you're out of the loop because we're going through many iterations, I think, before we land on it. Okay. So it's just a lot of pitches right now. And I'm such a stick in the mud. I'm basically like, you know, when you guys decide, tell me what I am. Okay. And just stay out of some of the pitches because they seem impractical to me. Okay. Do you mind throwing some out there? Well, what I got kind of nervous about is Lincoln's now interested in doing puns, kind of bringing back what everyone loved from the 2010s, I guess.

1:21:48Yeah. Kristen used to do this, right? Yes. Yes. Like Burt Reynolds rap or whatever, you know, stuff like that. And so they already have like really complicated ones where someone's a human and they're a toothbrush. And to me, I'm just like, whoa, we better start. fabricating all these if we're really doing this. Yeah. Okay. But again, this isn't my domain. This is one of the domains I just pop in and out of. I'm on, I'm on hayride duty. Yeah. Did you drive the bus back? No. Oh, okay. I flew back. So the bus is staying there. The bus is there. So he's going to stay there. Yes. Until January, if I come back, bring it back to go to the sand dunes.

1:22:32I wonder if he should come back home because like, what if we want to like hang out in him i know i would i feel safer if big brown's here but big brown is in um covered in that in the baking sun in la for it likes the sun some people like the sun brown people like the sun nobody likes to have that much direct sunlight rotting in the front yard you can't say nobody when i'm sitting right here but you have rejuvenative properties You can replace your dead skins and stuff. Big Brown's just going to get duller and duller. So I think it's best for Big Brown. Okay, well. You're bummed that the bus isn't here.

1:23:14Yeah, it was only the other brown thing on this property besides me. I felt seen. Okay. And now I'm back to being the token. Is there nothing brown here? Just me. Just little old me.

1:23:31Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

1:23:43I have a confession. Oh, wow. I love a confession. So I got this necklace. Okay. For the listener, it's gold. It has, it's really pretty. It has like what kind of looks like a paper clip or safety pin hanging from the chain, but with a little diamond on it. And then it has a little pendant. Now, the pendant has a unicorn on it. And I feel weird about it because I love it. I saw it and I was like, I need this. But then I decided I was going to tell people that somebody else bought it for me. How come? Because I think it's weird if you buy yourself a pendant that has a unicorn on it. Oh, really?

1:24:33I'm a little. What do you think it says about nervous? It's arrogant. Oh, wow. Arrogant. Like I'm saying I'm a unicorn. Oh, I don't know if anyone would think that. I just want to get ahead of it. OK. Yeah, I don't I don't think anyone's going to think that. I mean, just I imagine the comments are going to be like, oh, my God. She thinks she's a unicorn. When you wear a Lacosta shirt, you don't think you're an alligator. Speak for yourself. Okay, I don't. No, that's not the same. That's the brand. This isn't the brand. This is the charm. Do I think I'm a hawk or a crow? Well, you do think you're a crow.

1:25:18You say that all the time. I do. I am a crow. But I'm not a hawk. Yeah, but that's your dad, you said. Yeah, that is my dad. See, it's like if I had, if you were a hawk charm. Well, if you got a huge tattoo of a big American eagle on your chest. American eagle's in some trouble right now. Why? You haven't heard this. You're so out of the loop. I probably am. What? Because they did a campaign with Sidney Sweeney that really got people in a tizzy. About what? Is this what I saw a clip of her crying, talking to camera about her feelings being hurt? Oh, maybe. I bet her feelings are hurt. Okay, what happened?

1:26:02The campaign was about genes, obviously. But it was, remember the Brooke Shields Calvin Klein commercial that they did? American Eagle. Sydney Sweeney has great genes. There's a voiceover. There's a whole thing about her jeans and how your jeans are passed down and it predicts your eye color and your hair color. And she says something like, I have great jeans. My jeans are blue. I only half paid attention to this. I only was. So I'm definitely missing pieces. And I think there's longer ones and shorter ones, whatever. But there's a like backlash against genetics or blue jeans genetics about what it's saying about the her genetics being the right genetics because she's blonde with blue eyes.

1:26:55Right. And white. And the Calvin Klein one is not like that. It's more like nothing gets between me and my Calvin. That's right. She's also 13 or something. Yeah. That's problematic in a different much different way. Um, but anyway, I don't, I'm not, I'm not going to levy an opinion on that. I do think people, you know, I help Kristen with some. There's so, you have so many specific looks. You're like, okay, that's the same. I saw the whole thing. You're like, okay, that's the sentence I want to say. Oh, that's going to be, that's going to sound rough. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to start with an analogy.

1:27:31Do you remember when I helped? Listen, this is a ding, ding, ding to what I'm about to say. Yeah. People need to think. Okay. They need to think before they speak and before they put things out. They need to edit what they're saying. They being American Eagle or the people being critical of American Eagle? American Eagle. Like I help Kristen with commercial stuff, right? And if you're working with Kristen on a commercial and I'm involved, you're probably going to be annoyed at me. Because I am very picky. I'm like, we aren't going to use that word or not. We shouldn't use this. We got to do this.

1:28:11And it's like to them, they're like, this is all the same thing. But it is not. I'm very similar. And as you know, I'm always on high alert for like condescension, triggering people feeling less than. Yeah, like there's. You have to think about everything if you're doing a campaign. Yes. And you do. You have to think about across the board everything. thing. There's a lot to think about and things make a, it makes a difference. Words make a difference. The delivery makes a difference and it requires a lot of thought. And so when I see something like that, I'm more just like, like why, who let that happen?

1:28:54Sydney Sweeney's person should not have allowed that. And also American Eagle should not have allowed that. Someone should have said like, hey, I don't know. Let's just be careful here. Yeah, I wish I knew more about the controversy. If the controversy is just that she's saying she has good genetics, what's interesting about that, let's just say that's what it is, that she's saying I have good genetics. I have the best genetics. And American Eagle is saying she has great genetics or the best genetics. That would be an important word. Does she say the best? She says I have the best genes. Right.

1:29:29I don't know if she said that or not. I don't either. Yeah. So, but what's interesting is, let's say it was just, I have the best genetics. It's funny that that's more offensive to people than what I earned how I look. Is that what they like the counter? Which is, I look this way. I didn't earn it. I was just born this way. I hit the genetic lottery. People like how I look. No, no, no. Across the board. To me, it seems less arrogant to say I'm just the recipient of great genes. But it's talking about blue eyes and blonde hair specifically. So that is the problem. Well, here's where they might have got a little murky on their analogies.

1:30:10They're like, oh, we're going to play the Jean's jeans. Exactly. But when she says I have blue jeans, we mean J-E-A-N. J-E-A-N. And it got a little murky. No, they knew what they were doing with that. That's like her eyes are blue. So her jeans are blue. Like that's what they're doing. But it's also like then they need to probably what they should have done is ran two campaigns, one with her, one with someone with brown hair or skin or something, and then made a brown pair of jeans. Yeah, just blue jeans versus brown jeans. Or black jeans. I love black jeans. They could run a campaign with multiple people with this theme.

1:30:54The problem is you have this like beautiful, very Aryan girl talking about her blonde hair and blue eyes and having good genes. And it's kind of like, eee, let's maybe not do that. But again, I don't necessarily, I don't actually blame her. I think she needs someone in her camp. I'm not avail right now. Right. Maybe down the line. Okay, just putting it out there. Yeah, just putting it out there. It's kind of a consultant. Do you think you could go through like 10 or 12 a day? Yeah. Like maybe go do a volume play, like have 12 of these clients that you're overseeing. Of course. Remember I majored in PR.

1:31:32This is where some of this comes in. Yeah, you may have the pleasure I've had in life of looking back and like seeming like it all makes sense. Now, like I was so into driving and then I was the host of Top Gear and it's improv and driving fast. And you're like, well, how did these things intersect? So it might be that. where your PR education finally is like, I knew there was a total reason. It's at play every day. It's at play all the time here. I notice it all the time. I'm like, man, meant to be. I need to know more, but it sounds like people are overreacting, in my opinion. You always think that.

1:32:05I do. I think people in general are looking for ways to be offended. Because you could say, I love my blue eyes and blonde hair. That's not saying, that's just saying that's one version of being beautiful. If she says, I like my blonde hair and blue eyes, they're hearing, I don't like brown hair and brown eyes. No, she's not saying, I like. Or I like that I got these. She's not saying that. Okay. That's the problem. That's what I'm saying. Words matter. If it was a phrase like that, like, I like my blue jeans. Yeah, yeah. That is different than I have good jeans. My jeans are blue. Uh-huh. Like, it's so nitpicky, but it really does make a difference.

1:32:54And I will say, as someone who doesn't have blue jeans, I mean, I have blue jeans, but I don't have blue jeans. I have brown jeans across the board. No, you have almost exclusively blue jeans. I have brown jeans. I have—I don't have any brown jeans. are not popular. They're not a popular shade. They're not a popular wash brown jeans. They just aren't. Whether that's. Black jeans are though. I have brown corduroys and they are so cute. And they're the low. Cords. Yeah. When you get into corduroy, people really embrace brown, even orange. Whatever. Yeah. So I, as someone who doesn't have these Aryan jeans that you do, if you said like yeah I have great genes I have blue eyes I'd be like probably don't say that to me like you know even not because I'm trying to be offended but just like are you serious like that's so stupid to say yeah I guess for you blue eyes is really synonymous with white because now what's interesting well she's white she is white yeah If she said, I'm so happy I'm white, I'm with you.

1:34:04Right? Yeah. So I'm trying to understand. So I do understand. I'm trying to figure out what the stickiness is here. And I think maybe that's it, which is blue eyes are so associated with being white. And blonde. That you're basically saying I'm happy I'm white. Yes. I'm happy I have this package. Blonde hair, blue eyes, white skin. And by the way, I don't blame you. You guys get a lot of shit. You get a lot of shit in this life. So you should be happy about it. But we just don't need to. But because some white people, some brown people have blue eyes. It's so rare, Dak. It's so rare. Anywho. I mean, wow.

1:34:47It's probably more rare. Oh, this is a good segue into something. But it's probably more rare for a brown person to have blue eyes than green eyes in general. Like, definitely, actually. And speaking of that, when we were watching Tom Cruise's Cruises. Yeah. And what movie were we watching? Oh, he had green eyes and his love interest had green eyes. I think it was one of the Mission Impossibles. Or no, was it Demi Moore in Few Good Men? It was. It was Demi Moore, green eyes. Tom had green eyes. And we were shocked that they both had green eyes because they're the rarest of eyes. And then we started to look into how many co-stars have had green eyes together.

1:35:32They couldn't give us an answer for that. Yeah. So, um, anywho. So I guess it's fine that I wear this or? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Cool. I don't think anyone, when they have an animal on their locket, the person's like, you think you're that animal. I think they just think you like that animal. You like unicorns. I think I'm a unicorn. I actually disagree. Like if somebody wore a fox or like had a little fox, like they're kind of displaying that that's who they are. OK, so it sounds like you might be critical of someone wearing a unicorn pendant. Yeah. Yeah. Which makes sense. All the things we fear and worry about others attacking us for are the things we.

1:36:20Right. Because they make logical sense to us. I wouldn't care if someone was wearing it, but I would want someone to have given it to them. Okay. Like their mom or their boyfriend or their girlfriend or their someone who thinks they're a unicorn. Yeah. I guess it's like self-love. Like I have, no one's giving this to me. No one thinks I'm a unicorn, but I. Interestingly, this is my same, I'm the same pushback I had on the jeans commercial. Which is anyone who's got a problem is overthinking it. Like you saw it, you liked it, you bought it. That's really the story. All the other stuff, though this bitch thinks she's a unicorn, she gave herself a, none of, I don't think any of that.

1:37:04And if you are engaged in that kind of thinking, you're doing too much thinking. Also, if you're engaged in that, you probably just already don't like me. Like that's sort of how it works, right? And if you're watching that commercial, you go like, oh yeah, Sydney's when he's hot. We've all agreed. And she's got good jeans on. That's it. No, that's not what, that's much different. It's much, much different. Anyway. I hope she hears my defense of her and agrees to come on. This is not against her. This is, I'm actually saying. You're critical of the team. Not her. I wish she had someone who told her.

1:37:37American Eagle, I feel like they probably knew a little bit more about what they were doing. I don't think they could have gone that far down the line without somebody saying like, I don't know. Maybe we should change up the verbiage a little. and maybe they wanted to be controversial, which if they did. Look what we've just talked about for 10 minutes. American Eagle jeans. Look what they got. All right. Well, let's do some facts. Yes. This is for Luke Combs. Ah, sweet Luke Combs. Very sweet boy. He hasn't texted me. He asked for my number, but he hasn't texted me. And then I got paranoid I put my wrong number in.

1:38:18But really, probably I did put my right number in. And he just has to text me.

1:38:25It's like a Nicholas Holt situation. These young boys are hard, man. I know why these older women. Okay. So the car in the Country Music Hall of Fame, he said Webb Pierce. So the Country Music Hall of Fame and Museum in Nashville features several iconic vehicles, including Elvis Presley's 1960 solid gold Cadillac limousine. and Webb Pierce's 1962 Pontiac Bonneville convertible. So he was right. Oh, also it says Jerry Reed's 1980 Pontiac Trans Am from Smokey and the Bandit too. Oh, wonderful. I mean, look, the original Smokey and the Bandit was a 77 Trans Am with a big block 400. 1980, we went to a 4.9 liter turbo.

1:39:14That's a bummer. Oh. But we love Jerry Reed. Got a long way to go. Short time to get there. We're eastbound and down. Wow. Yeah. We love him. We love Jerry Reed. And I'm happy he got something from the movie. But I do wish he would have gotten the 77 big block. Right. Is what I'm saying. Now, if you saw Jerry Reed at East SOTI, I'd be like, that's wild. Yeah, I agree. Okay. We talked about 4A, 5A schools. Something that was new to you. Never heard that. Yeah. And you asked what the A stood for. It doesn't stand for anything specific, but rather serves as a classifier for schools based on factors like enrollment size.

1:40:01High schools are often grouped into different classes, 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A, 5A, etc., to ensure fair athletic competition. So I bet it actually stands for athletics. You'd think. I mean, otherwise, there's no reason to put that A in there. Since they don't do 1B and 1 2C, since we're only using A, then it's completely unnecessary. You could have just said 1 through 5. They're classified 1 through 5. Yeah, but... If the A never changes as you're going up, there's no point in having it. It's not telling you anything about the school. No, it's not telling you anything, but they probably just wanted to give it a little something.

1:40:41Make it more techy sounding. being 5A. But I'm just saying 5 is the operative integer in there. The A is doing nothing. So why do we have? Well, it's probably written out with 5A's. I don't think so. You think so? Yeah. I bet it says the number 5 and then A. But you're looking at it. Are there 5A's in a line? No, no. I mean like when you're like at the school and it says the school, then I had, I like, In my head, I've seen multiple A's. Okay. I don't know. All right. I don't know why. Let me text my friend, Kirsten. She works at my high school, okay? Okay, great. Give her a text. We're going to give her a text on air.

1:41:23Hi, comma. I have a weird question for a fact check, period. Do you know what the A stands for in 5A schools? question mark also is it spelled out number five so is it spelled five a or two three yeah i've seen a's like this oh i added the yeah on accident i gotta edit that okay how many people in ashville drive Subarus? It didn't, it wouldn't tell me, but it does say nationally, Subaru makes up about 1.6 % of the overall automotive market. Side note, on our drive to Dollywood, we had two different single dudes in cars that were driving at a very high rate of speed, high velocity. I won't mention whether I was driving slow or fast, but they were both and Subaru Foresters.

1:42:27And Aaron and I said, this is weird. That's not the car I would expect speed freaks to be drawn to. But boy, we never saw a Subaru Forester that wasn't doing 20 over. So just file that where you may. Wow. Okay. But it does say that Subaru is over 11 % of the, I'm sorry, in Vermont, Subaru is over 11 percent of the state's overall automotive sales. Oh, wow. So 5x the national average. Yeah. Yeah. Because 1.6 percent. Yeah. Yeah. I have a confusing fact because he said that the student he said that in Boone County, North Carolina, the population doubles when schools in, which, you know, makes sense.

1:43:11But I am confused because the student population of Boone in 2023 was 21 ,253. That includes Appalachian State and some other schools. But then if you look up the population of Boone, North Carolina, it says 20 ,000. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So there's 20 ,000 permanent residents and then another 21 ,000 arrived to go to school, making it during school time, 41 ,000, but 21 ,000 aren't residents. So he got that almost exactly right. It's a little more than half of their population. So you're saying these these people aren't residents. I guess that makes sense. I guess. Yeah, they're not on a census.

1:43:59Hmm. I guess it depends on where where they register. Yeah, you don't fill out a census in college generally. That's like the homeowner. But isn't it where you're registered? Like I registered in Athens. So I like I got like jury duty summons there and stuff way past when I was supposed to. Like I was considered a resident there. I would hearken to guess that 99 percent of people do not switch the address on their license from their childhood home to their dormitory. Yeah, it happened because I was registering to for the election. Like, I think if you maybe if you want to vote and you're in college, that's the way.

1:44:44OK, let's see. Is pure O OCD nature or nurture? Purely obsessional OCD, pure O OCD is thought to have a genetic component. But family history is significantly increasing the likelihood of developing the condition. Studies have shown that Piro was five to seven times more common in individuals with relatives who have OCD, suggesting a genetic link. So, yeah. Oh, OK. So she's Kirsten, my my friend. She responded. Here's what my athletic director just said when I asked. A is class. So single A is small schools. We are region. Wow. Duluth. Wow. My school is now seven A. They're doing events. new ones for your school?

1:45:30She said biggest classification. She said, and the A means nothing, kind of like with batteries. His words, not mine, she said. But that's not a good analogy because the A's in battery do mean something. Because if it's triple A, it's very small. If it's double A, it's bigger. So as you change the A's. Yeah, but that's what this is too. This is the more A's, the bigger the school. If you're writing it out, one, two, three, four, five, five, six, seven A's, but it sounds quite like all they need is the seven. The seven tells them how big the school is, not the A. Whereas in the battery, the A actually tells you the size.

1:46:10Well, no, they're not called two A. It's double A or triple A. So it could just be double, triple, single. But you can't because you have C and D batteries, whatever. Oh, I see what you're saying. You're saying the A is the type of battery because C is different. A is the operative piece of information. The A has no operative impact on one through seven A. Whatever. It is written out with A's. It is. When she has to say the size of her school, she writes seven A's in a row. She wrote seven and then a bunch of A's. Okay. So you would like them to keep the A, it sounds like. Yeah. I'm pushing for them to just ditch the A.

1:46:53It's completely extraneous. Okay. I think it's stupid to say the school is seven. I like that it has something else added to it. Okay. Okay, well, that's it for Luke. That's all the facts for him. Okay. I really adored him. Hopefully he'll text me one day. Hopefully. Keep us updated on that. Yeah. Maybe he'll need 20 bucks someday. Something. Or a motorcycle. Yeah, maybe he needs to borrow some eggs. Do you know they make a little tiny motorcycle named a Dax? Wow. Wow. See, that is a big coincidence. Yeah, I got one today. It's a little tiny motorcycle that says Dax. It's so cute. Oh my God, cute.

1:47:36How tiny? Like you can ride it or is it for kids? I can ride it, but you wouldn't know this, but you know my Grom, that little tiny black motorcycle I have in LA? Yeah. It's just a 125. Like my Ducati, the big one is 1200 cc's. This is 125. So it's a little tiny motorcycle and it's retro and it's got this steel frame and it says Dax really huge on it. Wow. Honda makes it. It's super adorable. I'm going to send you a picture. It's very retro. That's so cute. Did you also buy the Dax chair? I need to. You need to. I got to be honest though. Like I would want this Dax mini bike, whether it's a Dax or not, it's just super cute and retro looking.

1:48:19That chair does not look comfortable. The armchair, the Dax armchair. Yeah, but it's significant. It looks torturous, but. God, that's deep. You know, it's like, are you comfortable in your skin? Sometimes you're not. And this armchair reflects that. And that's why I don't love the chair. It's not on brand with my personal brand, which is I am max comfort. You know? Yeah, you're comfortable in your skin, but you're also an addict, which means by nature, you're kind of uncomfortable. But I sit in a lazy boy at work. Like to me, comfort is like top, you know, it's it's. Oh, it's what you're. Exactly.

1:49:07So it's like what you're looking for. So the Dax armchair is not what you're looking for. It's who you are. Just so you know. Oh, a rigid poly-injected mold. Like it's a mold. There's no individuality. It's in a museum. It's obviously special. It's an accomplishment. I just think it's a terrible chair. Oh, my God. Actually, this is funny because when I was in New York, I went to this place called Superiority Burger. Great restaurant. And on the menu, they had these pictures of chairs and then the drink names like went with the chair. And we did play a game for a long time where we were figuring out who was what chair.

1:49:51That's fun. It was fun. I'll post it. People can play the game. OK. OK. Post it all. Yeah, I will. All right. I love you. Love you.

1:50:33Thank you.