Rerelease: Walton Goggins

23:24And it all worked out. I've never wanted to read a poem in my entire life until right now. I'm dying to read the seventh grade poem. Do you know it? Do you know it by heart? No, I remember a couple of raps I wrote in high school. We'll get to that later. Okay, so you went to Southern Georgia University for a year and a half? Georgia Southern? Georgia Southern. Did you go to? I went to Georgia. You went to UGA. I did. Go to Athens. She too was a great student. You're from Georgia, man. I know I am. I sure am. We got in a big fight about it because I went to the Texas game with Dax. In Austin. Are you a big Texas?

23:55No, he's not. I'm a big Austin fan. Yeah, I'm a big Austin fan. That's a great city, man. Well, they were playing Georgia and I refused. And we were the guests. We were guests of some Texans. Of McConaughey. Oh, yeah, of course. This fucking religion. We got to hook them. No, we don't. Do you wear like a Georgia hat? I wore a bulldog shirt and a red sweater. Were you on the field? No, we were in the box, but surrounded by a bunch of orange. And I was like, absolutely not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you were so mad that I wanted the longhorn swing. It put our friendship to the test. It really did.

24:28We barely navigated that one. We don't have to talk about it now, but I want to know the history of this friendship. Oh, yeah. It's an odd pairing. We're best friends. We fight nonstop. We think about the world so differently so often. It works. Big time. Circling back a little bit, I do think we are very volatile. And I think that's somewhat of a result of his upbringing and potentially mine. And when we were talking about chaos and relationships, do you seek that out? I think we subconsciously seek it out. You mean conflict with each other or do you think in your own lives? Like if I'm being honest, I think that's part of the draw.

25:05There's something always that could blow up. Yeah, that's right. And part of the attraction to this. I think so. Yeah. I crave novelty. I crave a challenge. I crave being engaged. And because she's so smart and has such a strong point of view, and it's so often different from mine, it's very ripe for very engaged, very heartfelt debate. And we love each other. So we would like to have the same opinion. So the stakes are high. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now that makes for a great show. It's been going on for seven years. It's been going on a long time. We have to really navigate it quite often. But I think that's the best kind of relationship.

25:44I agree with you. I could never be with a fan. I have friends. I know people who are very successful and then they get a very beautiful person who's just along for the ride and they're a fan. I would be so bored out of my mind. My wife is hard as a motherfucker. Yeah, super smart, super talented. Very driven, very ambitious, going to get her way. I need that. I have that in my life. My wife is more often than not the smartest person in any room that I walk in for sure. She's a fucking intellectual baller. She understands the world in a very nuanced, complex way and is able to walk with kings. Yeah.

26:20And you got to have your shit straight before you enter into a fray with her. Like she makes you, I'm presuming, the very best version of yourself. Well, I mean, I don't know. Or the worst version too. And the thing that I say often is I'm Zen 99 % of the time. And she says, well, it's the 1 % where you should be fucking Zen, man. You know, it's the 1 % when you're challenged to that place and that's your lesson. I said, or maybe it's fucking not my lesson. But that's kind of that thing. I mean, I think I'm cool. I'm cool. I'm cool to, hey man, fuck you. I'm not cool. That level of volatility is present in my work.

26:56And maybe you feel that way in your work. And that is the same with my wife and all of my friends. I look for that in other people. I need 10 % crazy in the mix. Absolutely. And Monica's 26 % crazy. And I'm 35 % crazy. Well, I would go up a little bit on that. Is Kristen crazy? That's a great question. Less and less. Less and less and less. Yeah. Both of us, by the way, have gotten way milder. It can exist so much easier. 17 years, you're 19 years. 20. We've been married for that long, but we met on a blind date 20 years ago, January 11th. The volume comes down on a lot of stuff. It has. And we've gone through a lot and like every relationship, ups and downs and peaks and valleys.

27:40But there's this thing that has eluded us for so long and we see it coming. It's like, oh, I fucking know exactly how this is going to go down. And I don't want to, okay, let's step off this train right now. There's an off ramp right here, man. You could just turn around. Oh, she's not letting you leave. Oh, you're not letting her. Oh, oh, hey, you know what? Now we're doing this. Yeah. Fucking I'm out, man. Yeah. I'm fucking out of here. And a little burst of euphoria comes when you go, oh, I'm going to burn the house down. Yeah. Here we go. That's right. And it's a little bit intoxicating. It is intoxicating.

28:15But you know who in my family doesn't have any of that is our child. He is so calm and so wise and so measured and extremely passionate. A deep, deep, deep thinker. What could be more fun? Yeah. Okay, here's the limb I wanted to go out on. Okay, let's go out on that. But I'm just curious, given the similar background. Is it hard for you when someone's in a bad mood? Like my things with my wife are generally, and I have this with Monica too, I have this with everyone in my life. if someone's in a really bad mood, I have this unreasonable desire to fix that for them and to regulate them. And if I can't do it, I'm very uncomfortable.

28:58Right, because you spent a lifetime doing that, regulating kind of other people's. Well, that was my guess. I'm wondering, single mom, it's like normally dad would be in charge of that. If mom's got an emotional issue. She never fit that box, right? She never fit that stereotype. Smoked a lot of weed, had a really good time. Very passionate woman. Love to have sex. Mine too. My mom's an admitted love addict. Yeah, absolutely. And I started studying Paramhansi Yogananda and Joel Goldsmith and the Urantia and the I Am. And went on this spiritual journey. Started when I was about 10 or 11 years old and had me reading all of those texts.

29:33So much so that I just kind of missed out on the classics because I felt like it was a waste of time. If you weren't doing something that was expanding kind of your consciousness, then why would you do it? I didn't realize until I was in a car with some friends that I had made in L.A. when I first moved out here, coming back from San Diego and hearing these people talk about Hemingway and Somerset Mom and Faulkner. And, you know, they had the opportunity to be in school. They had a college education. And hearing them cross-reference these authors and how it was applicable to cinema or a song that they were listening to.

30:07And I just was in the backseat, wasn't saying anything. I was just listening to all of this. And I just thought, I want that kind of in my life. To circle back to what you said, I had to please a lot of people. I had to please my father. I wasn't around him that much. But when I was, I desperately had to do that. That's not our problem. Early in my life, my problem was profound insecurity based on poverty and not having those things to the point where in high school or middle school, a girlfriend's parents were coming to pick me up and I would give them an address that wasn't my address. And right before they were supposed to get me, I said, okay, mom, I got to go.

30:40My mom had no structure, no boundaries, no boundaries whatsoever. My mom was like, I trust you. And so I would just slip out of the house and I would go to Ken and Carol's house with the nicer home and just hide in the ditch or out by their bushes. And I would see the headlights kind of pulling and I would just run out in the driveway. And it's like, okay. And then the lights would come on and this is that I was like, oh, they're fine. Bye, mom. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

31:17Poverty is humiliating when you're young like that. You just don't fit in. We never filled up our gas tank ever. I never remember my mom or an aunt or one of these crazy people I was with. No one had the money to put more than like three to five bucks in your gas tank. And so I had a lot of that. It's like a chip on your shoulder, but it's not. And then you allow for judging until it gets to a certain point. And then you react to that judging. It's like, well, wait a minute. I'm just as good as you. I had a lot of that shit early on, especially in relationships. I was left a lot, like a lot of people, abandonment issues.

31:53and just thinking everyone leaves, everyone's going to leave. So please don't love me or love me and please don't let me go. Yeah. I think that's a journey for a lot of people in my own journey, in my own spiritual walk, which is a part of this whole experience of the White Lotus, falling in love with yourself. God damn, if you can get to that point where you're okay with you, even though once you find it, it will very quickly disappear. Yeah, it's transient. Absolutely. And once you have that realization and once you have a degree of self-love, at least this is what my experience was, that also came with real boundaries.

32:28I've gotten better about this is no man's land right now. We're okay, but this is not okay with me. And I'm not poor anymore, but I don't think that ever fully leaves you. I'd wrestle a lot with, I hated rich people. If there were a bad guy in the world, it was rich people because I felt less than around them. I didn't like how I felt. It was not their fault. I now know that. But, you know, I had this chip on my shoulder. and then trying to come to terms with the reality of, oh, I'm one of those people. That's a little discombobulating. And there's shame around that. Yeah, yeah. You feel survivor's guilt.

33:01It's complicated. The thing that I had and something you kind of brought up earlier and experiencing it in the back of this car came up from San Diego. My envy wasn't around the acquisition of things, even though I just wish we had some fucking heat. You know what I mean? Like these are just bare minimum. The water would stay liquid. Yes, I wish we had some yogurt. Wish I didn't have to cut off half of this block of cheese to get to the good cheese. That's exactly right. But it was time to think. I was jealous and envious of these people went to college and they were fucking in college, even though they worked or whatever, but they had an opportunity to just sit and learn or read and then go talk about things that they had just learned.

33:40I never had the space to do that. I would have been good at it. I left school after a year and a half. We do forget, we take for granted that going to school and being able to be there and think critically is a privilege. It is a privilege. We just do it. We think we have to do it. We go, we try to get through it, and it should be rethought of. Or just like a daily reminder of this is a privilege, it's not a right, and what do you do with the time that you have at the microphone? What is it that you want to say? While I didn't have that in college, I have been able to, even without money, give myself those opportunities through travel and being alone, giving myself permission to be on the road for a very long period of time, understanding culture.

34:21I've talked about this in other interviews, so this isn't revelatory. But in addition to that, I feel that way about work. I feel that way about the time I'm now afforded to give myself to live in my imagination and preparation to start a job and to stay in that world over the course of telling that story. So I feel like I have that now. Like that's my education. That's time to ask those existential questions or listen to that music this person would listen to or watch those movies that are applicable to this experience. Just indulge your imagination. Yeah, that's right. You have time and space.

34:58Exactly. You fucking indulge this part of your brain that's so special. And I don't take that for granted. I'm with you, yeah. I'm never interested in why someone wanted to become an actor, but with you I am. How do we go from that tiny town in a year and a half in college? When do you go, oh, I'm going to be a performer? I feel like I was always a performer. I was raised around some very performative people, interesting, funny people. They were great storytellers. Yeah, if you're going to take up time at the dinner table, it better fucking land. Yeah, and even if you couldn't, because there were five stories going at once.

35:30Do you know what I mean? But more often than not, people would pass the baton in my household. And there wasn't a lot of talking over each other. It was depending on the level of inebriation, how fucking short or how long the story is. These were very eccentric people. When it was my turn to talk, you know, it was like little Walt. It was the great love of the women and my family. I knew that that, again, was a privilege and not a right to be given the microphone around this group of really great storytellers. And I would tell my storytelling ass off. I think that was always kind of a part of it, but I really kind of stumbled into it.

36:04Well, when you moved to L.A., did you move here specifically to try to act? I did. I wanted a great experience. I got an American Express in college my freshman year. as soon as I got there. God damn, I got mail? Who knows I'm going to school here? How do you guys know? It's happening. Long Goggins? Long Goggins? I got a mailbox? And it was four or five pieces of mail. And first thing that I opened was an offer to join American Express. And with this offer in 1989 were two round trip tickets for$99 east of the Mississippi or$199 west of the Mississippi. Yeah. Oh, wow. Plane tickets were like$1 ,000 from Atlanta to fucking Los Angeles in 1989.

36:42I mean, they were not cheap. And I just saw it and I thought, this experience is over. I'm going to do my year in the school. I'm never going to spend a dollar on this card. I'll just have it. And then I'm going to use both of these vouchers. And that's exactly what I did a year later. And who went with you? Nobody. Oh. I went on my own. Because you had two vouchers. Yeah. Oh, because I had two. Yeah, I didn't. No, no, no. I used both of them. My dad came with me when I drove across country because he wanted to get his eyes on the big city. I wish you could have seen this photo. His dad is adorned head to toe in black leather, turquoise on every single finger.

37:15He has photos of himself. People do ask him for photos everywhere he goes. He's a very interesting person. He's visiting Walton in New York and people are asking for photos. And he's, oh, well, I have one signed. He has signed photos of himself. He has signed photos of Walton that he has signed. Oh, my. You need to make a mug with his picture of that. And it needs to say, there's no this without me. Because that's also true. And that's the end of the interview. Tip for tat. Yeah. The ride really, so I'm going to blow through a couple because I want to get to three things. Okay. The Shield is the first from the outside.

37:53Seems like you're now in the big leagues. You have a steady paycheck. You're one of the season regulars. Is that the big? Yeah, I think so. I moved here when I was 19. I had$300 in my pocket and I lived the way that I lived and worked how I worked. And then what gave me permission not to feel like I needed to work anymore, even though I did for a little while afterwards, was The Apostle with Robert Duvall. Oh. And that was the, wow, okay, that's my hero. And so that was really, even though I was working, I think I made$21 ,000 over three months for the next Karate Kid. For me, that was a lot of money.

38:28Well, clearly, yeah, from 19 to 30 you are when you get on The Shield. 29, yeah, 29. 29, yeah, yeah. You make it work. You're on Beverly Hills 90210. Oh, yeah, I did a fair amount of films. But then I felt like Shanghai Noon was going to be the thing. Oh, yeah, yeah. I had a pretty big role in Born Identity that ultimately they decided to go with Gabriel Mann instead. And they just offered me another thing. People didn't know what the fuck to do with me. No one was paying attention. And I had some extraordinary experiences on location over that first 10 years. And then The Shield happened, yeah, when I was 29.

38:58And nobody knew that it was going to be what it became. 86 episodes or something? Yeah, 86. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I think this is so fascinating. You had auditioned for Eastbound and Down, and you didn't get it. No. And the feedback was? David Gordon Green, who was a friend of mine from the independent film circuit, I just called and said, you know, Danny, I absolutely love you, but just it might be a little too dangerous for what we're doing. It's a little too... Chaotic? Not even chaotic. It's just a little scary. I said to Danny, look, man, I think you need somebody to go toe-to-toe with you.

39:29Yeah. Something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we have some friends in common. Leslie Bibb actually had a New Year's Eve party. And Danny and David were there. And I was there. She's one of my best friends with Sam. Then that was kind of the beginning of the conversation. I remember watching an interview with Todd Phillips. And I thought he said the coolest thing. He said, you know, for me, comedy that is good has to be very dangerous. Oh, interesting. Or it's not comedy to me. And if you look at his work, you're like, oh, yeah, it's kind of high stakes. Everything's a little scary. You look at The Hangover, any of these, they go wild.

40:01when they're going to jump a van, they're going to jump a fucking van. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There are real stakes. So then you get to come in and do vice principals. They offered it. I was doing the Hateful Eight. We were in Colorado and I read it and he talked about it at this party. And I read it and thought, okay, this I know what to do with. And so I just kind of did that. And it was three lines into it where I think he was like, okay. You're outrageously good in that. I couldn't believe the story of Hateful Eight. And if you would just indulge me and Monica, I think the audition for Hateful Eight is one of my favorite audition stories I've heard.

40:35If it's the story that I think you're talking about, that was for Django. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, duh. But you get Hateful Eight. Which led to the Hateful Eight. I'm sorry. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's easy. I can't believe you know what you fucking know. Honestly. But it starts with a call to Rodriguez. I get this script like everybody else in town and I read it on the plane to New York and staying with a friend and it's one of the best things i've ever read in my life he's only made nine you know so it's the repeat cast it's the golden ticket it's a very small group of people i just feel that way about mike white and the white lotus there are a number of filmmakers that have that stable of actors and if you can kind of get in that christopher guest i mean unbelievable but quentin is probably by far the most in my book but i read it and i was like i don't have to get this i just want to fucking read these words in front of this man and so i called robert rodriguez who's a friend of mine and they're obviously really good friends and i said man i've never asked you for anything could you please text quentin for me and just say that i have this guy i'd like to read 10 minutes later he texted back the text from quentin which was i love goggins oh i love his work you know and it was like fuck okay well then that's it unbelievable that's enough it's more than i wanted yeah we could ever expect yeah yeah it's always nice to live your life as if you should be surprised if anyone has seen any fucking thing you've done But to be seen by a hero just feels really crazy.

41:58And then liked. Yeah, that's right. Not just seen, but liked and appreciated. And then it just happened to coincide with a really good friend of Quentin's, was one of my wife's dear friends. And she called and she said, I just read the script and you got to be in this movie, man. You're in this thing. You're one of these guys. Yeah. And she said, let's have a dinner with Quentin. I'm the guy that's like, no, no, no, I don't want to do that. I don't ask anyone for anyone. To seem opportunistic is like the grossest, right? guy out of his dinner talk about everything but the script until the very end and i said i think this is what you're saying and how i felt a thousand people have probably said he said well i want you to come in and just pick a few roles and so i did started kind of reading them and there it was and he was like that's fucking great man i'll be speaking to you and i said well i'm not leaving i said well i didn't come here just to read these three roles i don't give a fuck if i get this job man i just want to read your words in front of you i want to read all of these roles Wow.

42:54I want to read Leo. I want to read Sam. Good for you. I use Kurt Russell. It's like, I just want to read this shit. He's like, really? And he said, okay, let's do it. And then he read everyone else in the scenes. And you did the whole movie, basically. We worked for like an hour, hour and a half. We did a lot. How fucking big seminal scenes. Just the unadulterated enthusiasm and love for what he puts out in the world. And his words, and at the end of it, it was like, fucking really good to see you, man. Can't wait for the next time. This will cross my mind on my deathbed. Thank you. Thank you, man.

43:23Oh, how cool. And then, yeah, you get the call. A couple of months went by. It's like, okay, buddy, come down to New Orleans and play with us. What if you're like, I can't. I don't want it. I just came to just do that one thing. I don't really want to be in the movie. It was here. You can't top what happened. But thanks. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Hey, imagine you deal with this. The characters are so fucking different. I may have seen Vice Principals, but if I don't follow show business, I don't realize that's the guy from Hateful Eight. They're so different. And if I fell in love with Uncle Baby Billy, I'm not putting that together with The Shield.

43:54It's almost probably a bit of an Achilles, which is I think you deserve to be the biggest star in the world. But I think the work is so unique and different. I don't know people are connecting the dots because now I'm a hyper fan and I didn't even think, oh, right, I got to go and watch. I went and watched Justified. I had never seen it, but I'm like, I'll go out for Goggins. Goddamn, he's great in that again. But I watched Hateful Eight a couple months ago in a sea of the most talented people. That's the performance in the movie. It's incredible. I can't believe you went from a smaller role in Django and then got called to the big leagues and did what you did in that movie.

44:29It's fucking nuts, dude. Thank you, man. Oh, my God. It's so impressive. I'm so happy for you that you got to go into Tarantino's world and have him trust you with that much and then to fucking score touchdown after touchdown. Well, look, maybe you feel this way. A lot of people in this business and outside of this business listen to your podcast. And I think for so many of us kind of coming up, I mean, we're from a different generation, but the barriers to entry, the gatekeepers to this experience, it's like every day, you're not even trying to fucking get to base camp one on Mount Everest. You're just trying to get up that little fucking hill that you're going to fall down.

45:12Yeah, that's right. You're just trying to get a flight to the airport to Nepal. At that point, it's as far as you could have gone if you feel like I do about Tarantino. It's exactly how I feel. But whenever you see someone that's been around for a long time, like Rockwell or Cruda, I mean, even Garrett Dillahunt, all of these fucking people that have been around for a really long time, and we've been around for a long time, and you just see consistently good work over a long time. And it's like, oh, wow. I mean, Pedro Pascal's been doing great work for such a long time. And it's like, wow, OK, there's one for the good guys.

45:41Yes. There is no limit on their staying power. They're inoculated by talent. And wisdom and choices. And so the guys I'm also a fan of, I won't name any names, but we know them. The people that if you were an envious person, which I'm really not, except other people's careers, I really don't look in other lanes. But the people in my 20s for a moment was like, fuck, I wish I could, you know, but I wouldn't trade my walk for those three years. And I think you probably wouldn't either. I've been walking the road that I've been walking for a very long time. I would argue it's preferred. I agree. When you're young, if you come out and you drop right into the World Series, it's hard to appreciate.

46:18It's hard to conceptualize. It's hard to integrate. And it's hard to stay. Yeah, it is. It's hard to stay. And to kind of just keep walking in the back door and then you leave and you're like, who was that guy that was that? You know, it's so preferred for your life story, your own narrative self. It's such the way to do it. Yeah, I think so. You don't remember this, but very first time I met you, it was nothing more of like a, hey. But it was really just me across the room silently thinking like, fuck you. Fuck this fucking guy. Why? What is this? True story. Because it was for an audition and it was just the two of us in this room.

46:52And I walked in and I looked at you and you were sitting behind this desk. And it was like a room with chairs. They had us kind of waiting. Maybe it was a second callback or something. I don't know. But I walked in and it was like, oh, this fucking guy. I just felt like it ain't my day. Oh, wow. What? I don't know this. Well, it was. I'm so scared. No, Employee of the Month. Oh! Oh my God! With Dane. Dane. And Dane came in. I don't know if you knew him. I don't remember, but there was some interaction that it was just like this easy, oh, these guys. Oh! That is so funny. Impossible to believe the story!

47:29I don't remember where it was, but I remember the room and I remember where you were sitting. No way! Yeah. And then seeing the movie kind of when it came out, I was like, wow, you know what? Yeah, it was his. for sure. That's an ego boost for you. Should be. Yeah. And yeah, if I were you, I would hate me. No. Yes. I'm like, what this motherfucker was on. I just felt like, no, it was just like, you know, when you kind of walk into one and it's like, oh, well, you know what? I'm still going to have fun. And I did want to see the version of the movie with you. I don't know, man. Oh my God. That's crazy.

48:00That just blew my mind. Okay. Last thing before White Lotus is of course, righteous gemstones. Uncle baby Billy. Yeah. Again, I see all your shit out of order. So I first saw Righteous and I was like, who the fuck is this guy putting Uncle Baby Billy and Chris and I are just obsessed with the show. I'm writing emails to Danny, who I barely know, but I have to tell him after every episode. The pilot of that, I'm like, did Scorsese fucking direct this pilot? This is a comedy. Look at these shots. Yeah. We fall so in love with you. Well, he was in Vice Principals, we learned. We go back. I watch Vice Principals just because I'm now on my Walton Goggins train.

48:36And I'm like, oh, my God. And he's this and this. I don't really have a question. We just finished the fourth season. It's really good. I can't tell you anything that it's about, but the first episode of season four, and I'm going to go on record as saying this, as a piece of writing, if I had read that in The Atlantic, I think the motherfucker would be nominated for a Pulitzer. Wow. You know, really what he's saying at this stage of his exploration in that world. And everybody obviously has a great arc Fucking a great story. But Baby Billy will have the summer 2025 fucking hit. I'm going to tell you right now, whatever you're wearing right now, come June or whatever, when you're a bathing suit, you will be singing this fucking song.

49:23I promise. Oh, my God. It's good, y 'all. I can't wait. And it says a lot about a lot. It's cool. I guess my one question about Vice Principals and Righteous is if you had to guess at a percentage, what percentage is you guys riffing and what percentage is on the page? It feels impossibly organic. 98 % is on the page. No shit. No shit. He's so brilliant. That's some writing. Edie Patterson. Oh, she can let her rip. She can do fucking anything. Yeah, yeah. Adam can fucking do that. Michaela Watkins can do that. Corddry. That's not my thing, but I understand where the story is and I understand, okay, these are five or six tangents that I can go down, turn yourself over to that and see kind of where that takes you.

50:07But he realized that about me very early on, that it's the words on the page that is liberating to me. Right, right, right. And then we carried that into Righteous Gemstones. I think I'll work with him for the rest of my life. If there was a career to envy, it'd be yours because you're in the Tarantino stuff. But I would say of the television shows, my favorite comedy is definitely Righteous Gemstones. I think my favorite big, huge action thing is Fallout. I love that show. Thanks, man. And then my very favorite, both of ours, kind of social commentary, character-y deliciousness is White Lotus.

50:41You're in the three shows that are my favorite. The two previous seasons have been so good. But I think we all had so much anxiety when season two came around. Cause I'm like, how on earth that hotel manager in season one, like who's going to pick up that slack? And then it delivered. His social commentary and what he's able to tackle, which I feel like you're not allowed to. And he does perfectly. Just the notion last season, you had these two couples and these two cheat, they're shitty. And this is the good one. And then as you're playing with it, you're like, well, I'm not sure which one I'd rather be a part of.

51:14That's right. Oh, here's the perfect guy. Says all the right things. Why isn't she horny for him? We got to deal with that. That's a real thing. It's so brave and awesome. It is. And no one writes an existential crisis the way that he does. Wealth gives him permission, I think, to parody these people and to make them real simultaneously. Because these situations do happen to people outside of this very specific economic kind of section of society that he explores. Yeah. This is his words, not mine. If first season was about money, if the second season was about sex, this season is about religion.

51:47It was everything that I had hoped it would be. And there are so many things that happened over the course of this experience that I'm not at liberty to really talk about. Tough project to promote, actually. Yeah, it is with a lot of projects, but that one in particular, I think they do actually kill you. There's a body floating somewhere. But I felt like I had my own apocalypse now, that I was Willard in a boat going upstream to meet Captain Kurtz, which was also me. Because of the real life or the story? Because of the story that I was telling. Does it help that you're in Thailand for six months living at the actual hotel you're working in?

52:25Yeah, living at the hotel. And sometimes the hotel was completely bought out. So it was just us. And then other times, you know, they weren't able to do that. So you're literally checking in as an actor next to guests that are actually there on vacation. You're like peeking at the hotel pool going like, oh, wow, that's that character. Yeah, it's a weird fourth wall being broken. Yeah, but I've seen two episodes and it's really fucking good. Oh, I cannot wait. And it's similar, but it's different. And I can say that my journey in this world, it's something that hasn't been seen or explored by Mike in other seasons, but everyone just kills it.

53:00Is it hard being there though for six months? No, fuck yeah, man. I mean, I haven't been home 11 days this year. In success, it becomes harder, you know, and that's the thing I don't think people realize. Because you're having to turn down now really great opportunities. Well, I mean, you're just away from home for a long time. It's lonely. Yeah. I don't think people anticipate that. It's like, oh my God, I'm getting all of these opportunities. And it's incredible. But at the end of the day, you go back to a house or your hotel room and you're alone, which I'm good at. And if I'm having a problem with it, I know other people are.

53:30Everyone went through their own crisis over the course of this experience. Which is maybe helpful for the project. It's a story that can induce that experience. Exactly. Certainly for me, the way that I approached this way of storytelling, it was a fucking incredible experience. It had everything in it, soup to nuts. And I can't wait for you to see it. I cannot wait. And I can't wait to hear what you think about when you do see it. Oh, yeah. I'm so excited. Maybe we'll come back on at the end of this thing. When you get the call to join that cast. It was interesting because they were due in season two and I didn't know Mike, but we had friends in common like we all do at this point.

54:06And I remember my agent saying, well, you should write a letter to Mike. It's like, no, man, I ain't that guy. I ain't doing that. They didn't tell me that conversations were even happening or that it was getting close. And then it was out here. We were doing early press for Fallout. And I went out to dinner with my agents, which I hadn't seen in a while. And they said, listen, congratulations. I said, for what? And then they said, Mike wants you to do White Lotus season three. And I just started fucking bawling. I started shaking at the table. Really? Because I felt like it's a world I could help him tell his story.

54:40You were built for a white line. You really were. I suppose I would have felt that way if any other show or movie you're excited about or filmmaker. But it's when you understand like Quentin, I felt like I know how to tell his story. I felt that way with Mike and a few of the filmmakers that I've gotten an opportunity to work with over the course of my career. This is one of them. I walked outside and called my wife. That's amazing. My last question to land the plane is I also follow you on Instagram. I also know Corddry goes with you to like Greece or Italy. You guys will do a proper summer in another country.

55:11It seems like you're putting as much effort into your actual life being as artistic as your work life. Absolutely. And I'd imagine some people might think that just happens, but I imagine you got to actually approach your life just like you do a role. Wow. Never had anyone say that. Yeah, I think that it's with intention. And so this happens to be a very long stretch. We sold our home in Los Angeles and we moved across the country and we bit off maybe a little bit more than we could chew. And that's like, okay, I got to go to work, even though I've never really done anything just for the money or that I'm not proud of or that I didn't want to do.

55:46But I got offered a movie right when the strikes were being talked about. I had this trip planned and they said, we'll offer you this amount of money. And I said, thank you, but no, thank you. And they said, okay, well, what about this amount of money? And I said, thank you, but no, thank you. He said, what would it take? I said, there is no amount of money. I'm sorry. And your listeners or other actors may say, fuck that guy. You know what? I hadn't seen my kid in a long time. And I had seen my friends. And that fucking time with my kid, it means more to me than anything. We're going to do that again this year with intention, whatever you can afford.

56:18My mom did it in Panama City Beach, Florida in a fucking tent. That is time. And it's far too precious at this stage of the game. And it is something that you can never get back. I have shame and remorse and regret about the time that I have been away. Like anyone does with their children. It's with intention and we're going to live the fuck out of life. Strap yourself in. No. Strap yourself in. Buckle the fuck up. Let's all. End on this. Strap in. Let's strap in. Thank you so much, GoDaddy Arrow. All right, you got a Super Bowl commercial. Let's just add that. Hey, man. This is going to come out after.

56:50Yeah, that's exactly right. Go back and watch it on YouTube. Yeah, check it out. Goggles has a Super Bowl commercial. Well deserved. Go Daddy Arrow. And hopefully people will be watching the commercial. God, you look great. You look so fucking cheap. You know what? If you can imagine every day just feeling like Opry Ski. I love it. I'm going to wear them out. What I'm thinking, Monica, is our longstanding debate about whether or not I could fly an airplane if the pilot went down. Sure. You with those goggles on. You think I could do? I'm not sure who should be flying the airplane. You or me. That is quite the compliment.

57:23You look like a professional in any field with those goggles on. Hey, you know, what an honor, man. Oh, I'm so glad this finally - What an honor for us. Yeah. We've been trying to get you in for years. Thank you. You're so generous of yourselves and so giving of your time and such great listeners. And thank you. What a pleasure, man. Just loving you from afar. So the fact that we're sitting together is such a blast for me. I adore you, Walton. This has been a blast. Thanks for coming. Thank you. What a joy. What a joy. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

57:58He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's got to let him have the facts. Oh, look at our trophy. Look at our trophy. That's a cool trophy. Very space age. Yeah, it's meant to be hung. Okay. It has this at the bottom. I guess it looks like a quotation above someone's head. It does. I'm holding up a square armchair expert with Dax Shepard. Spotify 500 million streams plaque we were awarded gold status. A trophy. Gold status. I need to start this fact check by saying my most deepest thank you. I've never been more grateful than last night. I was asked to be one of Bill's 10 or 11 stops on his book tour.

58:54Yeah. Awesome. And it was at a live event. the I don't know some beautiful theater where? in San Francisco oh nice sorry if you already said that no I don't think I did for the listener I didn't say that okay it's not our show right yeah it's not handheld mics I can't go out and I had a time and warm everything up and then bring Bill out there's like a whole thing you know it's their show right and there will be a video and another woman introduce us for a while and then we sit down I'm in the wrong side suffice to say it just wasn't like one of our shows sure um so I guess they gave me about a ton I'm not gonna exaggerate maybe like 20 percent nerves of course it's different and it's like I don't know if it's all people there to see Bill Gates and they're learning who I am and they don't understand I'm gonna have a sense of humor whatever all this to say um soon as we sat down i said are there any arm cherries here and monnie the whole place was arm and i immediately felt so comfortable yeah and confident and relaxed that's awesome and i was so grateful i couldn't believe how grateful i was i was like fucking arm show up they really do show yeah and you know i had my whole family Yes.

1:00:21Your original family. The OF. Yeah. Your sister, your brother, and your mom. That's right. The original crew. Yeah. The original four. Yeah. The fab four. Was that lovely? It was lovely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they got to meet Bill for a while. Yeah. And my brother has been obsessed with Bill since he was a kid. Really? Oh, yeah. Because my brother was very into computers. I didn't know that. Yes. Oh, how special. obsessed with Bill Gates his whole life. Okay. Even when I was talking to him before the event, I was saying like, oh my God, you got to read the book. It's so funny. There are so many funny stories in this book about him being 13 and showing up places with a briefcase and business suits on and making products.

1:01:05And the whole thing is so, it sounds like a cartoon. Yeah. And he was like, oh yeah, my favorite thing is that his mom said, what are you doing in here in his, in his bedroom? And he said, I'm thinking you should try it. and my brother just knew all this stuff I had just learned in the book that he somehow had already known. Anywho, they got to chat for quite a long time. It was a very special experience for my brother. That's great. And yeah, it was sweet. And then yesterday we gave it to San Francisco straight up the hiney. We, in four hours, we saw that whole city. Nice. We saw Alcatraz. We saw Oh, the Golden Gate Bridge, the Bay Bridge.

1:01:48We went through Chinatown. We went through North Beach. We went to Lombard Street. We got on the trolley and rode the full loop of the trolley. Wow. Hanging out the side, Monica. So is that something you do with your original family? Because I don't think you do that with your current family. No. My brother had never been to San Francisco, shockingly. But so, yeah, seeing Alcatraz and all that stuff, the Golden Gate Bridge, it's all very exciting. Trolley, Rice-A-Roni, the San Francisco tree. Full House, ding, ding, ding, Olsen's. Full House, Lombard Street. Do you know Lombard Street? I've heard, I don't know.

1:02:23It's the one that's really twisty. Oh, sure. That goes down the extremely steep. And when my brother and I were children, there was a show called You Can't Do This on Television. No, that's Nickelodeon. It was called That's Incredible. Ooh. Doug Demokas, the wheelie king, rode a dirt bike, a wheelie, down Lombard Street. Oh. Never putting it down. Rode over cars on a wheelie. Oh, that sounds bad. It was a very memorable, seminal moment on television for us. And so to be on Lumbar where our hero Doug DeMoccus had done that sweet wheelie. And then some armcherries were in a 1960s VW micro bus coming down Lumbar Street and started hollering out the window.

1:03:03Sometimes people shout out the window and their armcherries. This happens. And I just want to say to anyone who does that to me, which has happened a few times. Yeah. don't think I'm a bitch if you get shook a little bit yeah or my first reaction is like really not eye rolly like don't hurt me yeah don't hurt me don't hurt me or I look scared and angry that's just my reaction as a woman you let it in but then they say like I'm listening or I listen or I'm not whatever and then I stopped listening I don't like it anymore. What happened? He yelled out. Should have never done video. Yeah, recently a guy did that.

1:03:49He honked. And then he, I looked over with a mean face. And then he pointed, he was listening at that moment. He like raised the volume. And that was exciting. But I'm also sorry. When you just pointed, it looked like he was pointing at his crotch. But it was obvious it was the dashboard. An armchair would never do that. I know he won it. But I'm saying it was clear that he was pointing to a stereo. Yeah. Okay, great. Because when you just did it, it wasn't clear. Okay. All right. Okay, anyway, so go on. Lombard Street. Lombard Street, Chinatown. Little Great Fridge. Little Italy. Little Alcatraz.

1:04:28That fucking trolley made us so happy. The cable car. Oh, my God. Because that's really. Classic. I just said the cable car. The cable car. I didn't. It didn't read. You know, I just think it's nuts. There's a cable running under the street. It is nuts. That they put in in 1870. Still going. Going in a circle. Also had some great meals. Ooh. Really great meals. San Francisco has great cuisine. Oh, my goodness. In fact, one of these places, if you're there, I insist you go called Cavalier. It's done up. It's a bar restaurant tavern, and it's done as an English hunting lodge. And the decor was, decor really works for me.

1:05:07For everyone. There's a reason aesthetics are important. I guess I should admit something really gross. Okay. Distasteful. Yeah, just bad. But since we are honest here, when you started your fact check about wanting to say thank you, I thought you were saying thank you to me. Oh, I can thank you as well. because I thought where the story was going was that it's so much easier together yeah yeah I mean that's true that's totally true I should have said that I'm sad I didn't say that no yeah I always walk out with you yeah so to do I mean if we eat a big turd together it'll be together right I thought maybe that's what was coming and then I thought oh it's not maybe it's a different thank you um also to me because guess what because what was the second reason i probably agree with it too because um because you were gone and you as you said you took your sweet sister yeah yeah who runs this household uh-huh yeah keeps it in check yes and kristin was at a table read yesterday i don't know if i'm allowed to say that but i think it came out yeah it's been announced For the show?

1:06:28Yeah, season two. Bill inquired about it. Because he's a dad. He's a dad. I tried to explain that to him. He didn't understand that that's why he liked it. Yeah, it's hard to explain that to people. But anyway, so she was at a table read. So she was at Fox. She was far away and Anna was with her. Yeah. And Lincoln had a tummy ache. Oh, no. So do you have to rescue her? So I went to pick her up. Was that your first time at that school? Yes. Isn't it beautiful? First of all, it's beautiful. We won't say what it is, even though you probably already have on here. I haven't. It's beautiful. But I was lost.

1:07:05Yep. It's like big. It's like a mini UCLA. There's a campus. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was lost and I kept having to ask like teens. But they're so confident. Yes. I think the first thing is you're like, wow, there's a really pretty campus. That quickly pales in comparison to how palpable the confidence is of all those gals running around. Yeah. they're they're on they're living out loud but yeah so i kept having to ask all these teens one teen really was like the middle school's over there like she was bad middle school yeah and i was like i'm cool like i have a podcast do you listen to podcasts i must have stopped three different people and i could not figure it out but i i eventually i never got her she's still there did she get home and then you know she picked me up or she grabbed swung by on her motorcycle and picked grab me because i was lost but it was so cute and she said oh i thought you would be in san francisco or wherever i thought you'd i thought you'd be with dad and i said oh no it's just dad he she was like he he kicked you out oh jesus and i said no that's not really how it works.

1:08:18No benefit of the doubt. Yeah. She went straight tight, kicked you out. She did. I said, yeah, you should punch him. I didn't want to tell her that her appendix might explode and that's what was maybe going on. Yeah, sure. That was your first though. That was my instinct so I stuck around in case it didn't explode. It didn't. It didn't. She have a poop and then feel better. I didn't ask. Yeah, I'll find out tonight. Okay. My first question. Too involved about the poops. Did you get that thing out? you get it i have one really special moment before the show they said we want to do a viral video with them and i was like of course so we played this game heads up and then what's funny is it was tests on things from the book but they put in catcher in the rye which wasn't in the book okay but he said something and then i got it i was it was on my head yeah and um he goes was that in the book?

1:09:13And I go, I don't think that was in the book. Is that one of your favorite books? And he goes, oh yeah. And I go, oh, it's my absolute favorite book. And then we're like, we talked for two seconds and I go, is that why you named your daughter Phoebe? And he goes, yeah. Oh, cute. And I go, I, from the second I read that book, I was like, if I have a daughter, it's going to be Phoebe. And it felt very connected. I really liked it. I had had the same exact. Wow. Kadams and I had that bonding moment too. I think a handful of men have named their daughters Phoebe because they fell in love with that character.

1:09:47You know you didn't do that, right? Is that not my firstborn's name? I'm so sorry to tell you. I'm so sorry. Yeah. Well, that's because we thought we were having a boy, if you recall. Sure. Now, Delta could have ended up being a Phoebe. Yeah, she would have been such a good Phoebe. Yes, she would have. That name really would have worked for her it would although delta really works pretty good for her of course yeah i can't yeah maybe if i have one i'll name it phoebe that's a ding ding ding people have been pointing out in the comments that my new over indexing is delta oh which is 100 true yeah not delta my daughter oh the distance between two things yeah yeah when i talk about i'll say delta and people are really noticing it and I guilty as charged.

1:10:39Okay. Yeah. I love it. It's very efficient. It is. Instead of saying the difference between or a gap between. Yeah, actually, yeah, I guess you do do that. I do a lot. I really got it from Formula One. They use Delta a lot in Formula One. What did you do while I was gone? Other than get lost at Lincoln School. On campus. There's just something about being at school. Yeah. I like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I went to In-N-Out this weekend. You did? Yeah. You got animal style fries and a what? A single? And I got, no, I got. I'm going to blow my nose. Okay. Sorry. That's okay. Have you blown today? I've lost some progress.

1:11:23Oh, all right. It hasn't returned to the insanity, but it's also. Okay. Did you slip up on your trip? With blowing? Yeah. Probably. hotel room well I bring tissues over to the bed every night to have them ready and then when they're there then I kind of got to use them but I can't risk that I will make it without blowing my nose and have to get up there's a lot of stuff to consider I know did anything else interesting happen oh my god Super Bowl oh die that would be crazy what was your favorite commercial the Nike women's commercial That was awesome. I love that. Playing Led Zeppelin. I bought the shirt.

1:12:07Oh, God. Yeah, obviously. That was a very cool commercial. Mm-hmm. That was probably the best. But, man, I love Willem Dafoe. I do. I do, too. I mean, he's just - With Catherine O 'Hara. I know. That was a good pairing. But he's just - Friend of the pod. Go check out his episode. He's so unique. What a gift he is. He is. He's a blessing. I love him. Yeah. I loved that. He's a blessing. He is. Yeah, that was good. He's like in a Wes Anderson movie, even if he's in a commercial. That was great. I couldn't hear all of them. Yeah. I didn't see most of them. I started it an hour and a half late. Oh, you did?

1:12:42I did. Wow. Yeah. And then fast forwarded through everything to catch up. Okay. Not needing to catch up as it turned out because nothing changed. Yeah. But the only thing I cared about really, really delivered, which was the halftime show. Oh, the halftime show. Oh, my God. I loved it, but I definitely thought his mic was too low. I was having the hardest time hearing him, like, the first four songs. Well, we couldn't hear, but it was. It was a bad mix. It was the TV. No, because when I watched it on YouTube, I could hear everything. Oh, really? Yeah, you should watch it on YouTube. I wonder if on YouTube they clean that up a bit.

1:13:20Oh, maybe. But on the broadcast, I was like, his vocals need to be way up. Just barely hearing the words. Yeah. I thought it was so good and so well done and so smart as he is. All of those things. I don't know. I just thought it was so powerful. I loved it. And there's all these like, I love hidden things. Okay. What were some of the ideas? I love clues. What was in there? Well, did you realize you probably, these probably aren't clues. They're probably obvious. But it was a PlayStation because the whole thing is like the game. He's like playing this game with Drake. Also, when Samuel L. Jackson is out there, it's kind of like.

1:14:07I thought he was incredible. Uncle Sam. Oh, my God. He was so incredible. That's a hard lift. He's got to pop in and out. Perfect timing. I know. Finish before he's got to start. That was complicated. Yeah. And he was great. He was perfect. But yeah. He was almost more Kendrick Lamar than Kendrick Lamar. Oh, don't say that. No. Oh, my God, no. Sam Jackson's like the original Kendrick Lamar. Well, he's like. I'm sure that's why he was there. Yeah. He, of course, is iconic. But. They have the same vibe and spirit. Yeah. Yeah. But the. Just the message. No tap dancing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:14:45It's really cool. We're not playing this game. Yeah, that was great. Serena. Yeah. I didn't. You didn't see that. You have to rewatch Serena Williams. She sang? She came out and was crib dancing. Oh, I didn't see that. You got, you got. I thought you were saying the female singer was Serena. No, that's SZA. She's huge. Yeah, I was like, I don't think, I think you got close, but I don't think it's Serena. I know what I'm talking about. I know, you do, you know more than I do. For sure. I didn't see Serena crib walking. You definitely need to rewatch. Okay. It's. I had it very loud and I got, I got goosebumps many times, several times.

1:15:23When it's the American flag and he's standing in the middle of it and they're all all of the dancers in the arrangement are black. Uh-huh. Just so powerful. It's really powerful. It was. It really was. I love him. I he I want him to come on this show so badly. Yes, me too. I had to get brought up to speed by Tim Lovested. About the beef? About the beef. I told you a little bit about the beef. I know about the pedophile part. Yeah. I know about the lawsuits. Yeah. I didn't know that he called Drake a colonizer. I didn't know that whole aspect. That's in the song, yeah. Yeah, and that Drake had called him, accused him of making slave music.

1:16:07Did you know that part? No, but I know Drake. So I guess there was this huge, like, weekend. And Drake is rich, I heard. Drake is rich. Drake was, like, grew up rich, I heard. Oh, yeah, he's from Canada. But, you know, you know, Drake is. I have zero opinion on Drake. I just want to say that. I have zero feelings. I have zero feelings about Drake, except apparently. And there's a daily on this. Well, there is. OK. Drake likes these beefs like he starts them. It's part of. They're good for business. Sure. Yeah. But this one really got out. Got out of hand. Uh huh. And Kendrick isn't really ever the type to get involved in these types of things.

1:16:50He's kind of like, which Drake also calls out. I think you're so. Few beefs. Kendrick? Yeah. He's also in a beef with Andrew Schultz. Oh. Did you not see that? Interesting. Oh, yeah. Really? And Andrew did not at all kowtow. He just went straight to war with them. What is that beef? um you'll we'll have to watch all the videos he has a line about don't let a white comedian make fun of our women or something oh and then so and it's believed that he's referencing andrew and andrew then comes out and says he's just not terribly worried about kendrick and oh you then he his his attack back is like oh here's the dude you've supported who have raped women and who have beaten women i don't think i'm your dude so that was his pushback and yeah got saucy well i thought boy andrew you're pissing off that's so stupid of him very very diehard fan base but uh yeah he's got at least those two going but back to drake yeah okay but in the hip-hop world yeah he doesn't really do this because he kind of was drake says it too like you put your you think you're so great you think you're this like poet yeah yeah which is yeah anywho drake is rich and very popular and like you know blends he's not straight up straight up hip-hop all right yeah more poppy He mixed with hip-hop.

1:18:26Exactly. Club music. Yeah. So people think he's a phony. I found myself with that tension of loving a good fuck you song. And then knowing a better part of myself doesn't like this. Yeah, me too. But in this case, I don't care. You went for it. I'm like, oh yeah, I'm getting charged up by this. Yes. And obviously that's not my aim in life. Is to like be pumped when someone else is telling another person to fuck off. Me either. Effectively. Well, the pro. Okay. I agree. Unless there's a huge class distinction, of course, then I do enjoy it. But regardless. I am with you. I don't like enjoy a diss track or a beef.

1:19:06I've never been into a beef before. Right. This is your first beef. This is my first foray into beefs. In the world of beefs. But now that I listen to The Daily and I know how many... So it was like this big weekend, I guess, where they were like back and forth. They kept putting out songs in retaliation to one another. At the end, in the audience, after the halftime show, it says game over. Right. Because he won. Right. And you know, he did win. That song, his diss track won five Grammys. Right. Like, sorry, I feel bad. I actually do feel kind of bad for Drake. But he did start it. I don't even know who started it.

1:19:48He started it according to the Daily. Okay, all right. I'm nervous. I don't want to be on either side of it. Why? because I don't I don't ever want to I don't want to join a team when the half the other people hate the team I don't I don't want to be on a team that's hated by half of people it's not my desire in life if I care deeply about this feud between Drake and Kendrick yeah I might but I don't care at all these are both very rich talented dudes I don't think there's an oppressed version person in this. Well, I think, yeah. I mean, they did come from very different backgrounds. Like, I don't, it'd be like you who came from a certain background, you probably feel like you have more of an entitlement to talk about that and rap about that than somebody who didn't experience it.

1:20:44But again, I don't even know enough about Drake. Is he rapping about the hood? He raps about bling. Okay. Oh, since we're talking about pop culture, which we rarely do. And I tend to, for whatever reason, be allergic to. Did you know the Kanye thing? Yes. So step one was arriving at the Grammys uninvited with the wife who was then naked. Okay, that was event number one. And then he paid for his own Super Bowl commercial. Yes. Which directed people to go to his website. He said to go to Yeezy.com. Yeah. And if you went to Yeezy.com, there was a single item for sale and it was a shirt with a swastika on it.

1:21:25Yep. I mean, this is absolutely mad as conceivable. This horrible. I'm dying to know. It's so bad. I'm dying to hear his thought process. I'm just dying to understand how he got himself to a point where he paid for a Super Bowl commercial. He hates Jewish people. He says it. It's not we don't have to read through the lines. The fact that that's not illegal. I don't like I don't. Although now I guess there's talk about the NFL maybe suing him because when he did the commercial, that wasn't up. He had real items on his side until the next day. He changed it. Yeah. So I guess there is some conversation about him being sued for that.

1:22:12But I don't. I don't. It's what I want to know. Embarrassing. What I want to know, to be clear, is the same thing I wanted to talk to Roseanne about. He knows this is a very damaging move. I don't know. It's like I don't know what it's like passing a point of no return. It's been like that, though. He keeps doing stuff like this. I mean, they're escalating in severity. He wasn't previously, to my knowledge, selling swastika shirts. No, but he was saying openly he hates Jewish people. He's like, he's getting close to being a neo-Nazi. Close. He's a neo. Okay, right. He is 100%. He's a black neo-Nazi.

1:22:54Yes, he is. Now, how does a rational, at one time, seemingly savvy and rational person end up here? Other than just the obvious bipolar. Yeah, he is. He's bipolar. But yes, as I was reading something today, like that's for people who are like, well, he's just he's bipolar, which he is. Yeah. Ninety five percent of bipolar people don't aren't hate filled. They're not using it to hurt people. And if you found out Hitler was bipolar, you wouldn't go like, oh, that makes sense. Yeah. I have a whole theory I'm not entitled to have about Roseanne, which is I think. The racism aside, it was racist. I acknowledge it.

1:23:36But that's just one of many historic things she has done at the height of her popularity to really alienate everyone and test whether they love her. Yeah. Like the famous. Well, that's you. That's you deciding and test what like that's you being very introspective and saying you think it's because deep down she's testing whether. Yeah. I think like when she sang the national anthem intentionally poorly and annoyingly and she pissed everyone off. And it's like the patriotism flared up and she's brilliant. So she's too smart to not know that wasn't a good move. So then I wonder what story is she confirming by doing this thing?

1:24:22Like, well, how could she as smart as she was convince herself that I'm going to do this? And I think it's this, you don't believe all these people that love you really love you. And then your brain comes up with this bizarre test of that. Yeah. To find out, to confirm you're right, basically. But no one really loves you. They love this fake version of you they see on TV or hear in music. I have to believe that's going on with Kanye. I don't think so. You don't think so. I appreciate that you really give people and I don't think you're giving him the benefit of the doubt. But like, I think I think a bunch of things have gone terribly wrong in his life that he's the author of.

1:25:04No question. Yeah, he's he creates chaos. And I think you and probably many people feel like there's a empathetic reason behind that. Well, I just think there's a reason other than that Kanye West was born evil and now we're seeing it and he hid it for 40 years. But you think and but you don't think anyone's born evil and I don't either. But I think people become I do think there are a there are people in this world who become irredeemable. They become so so driven to chaos and destruction. And yeah, and I'm not making an argument that he should be redeemed. No, I would hope. Yeah, no. I'm not making an argument that people who have committed crime should not go sit in prison.

1:25:56But I am working with an assumption that something happened to them that now resulted in this. I think there are serial killers and I think there's narcissists and I think there's sociopaths who enjoy and there's there are sadists who like to hurt things. I know those people exist. Yeah. But I think a lot of non mental pathology people do really weird stuff that I'm quite curious why they would ruin their lives in this way. Like this is a person who's ruined their life. Oh, yeah. But over and over, like it's not. Keeps doing it. He keeps causing harm. Does it seem like a tragedy to you? Because it seems like a tragedy to me.

1:26:41It seems like a waste to me, but I don't I don't think of it as a tragedy. I think what he's doing to people, I think, causing this kind of fear and instability and across the board, even when he goes up and steals the thing from Taylor, it's all it's all it's mean. It's bad. I'm also of the belief that a lot of that type specifically thrives off oxygen. And so I don't like I don't really want to give him any effort. Like, I think he's disgusting and I don't want to talk about him really. I mean, this is a fine conversation, but, you know, everyone's, of course, like posting about it. And there was another shirt made in retaliation, which I think is awesome.

1:27:33That is what he wants. He wants chaos. He wants a reaction. He wants people to be scared and be angry. And I'm I don't want to play. Right. Like. Bye, just go away. Yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. If you dare.

1:28:04Do you think he's sold any? I don't know. Well, it's gone now. Oh, it is? Yeah, Shopify took it down. Okay. Let's just say it's a historic public meltdown for the ages. I mean, it's one of the most bizarre things. Yeah, but it's not that bizarre because it's been such a lot. He's been escalating to this for so long. I mean, there was a period where he was just writing incredible music. A long time ago. Came up with some of the greatest Jay-Z songs with him. Like, there was some period where he was just a volcano of incredible creativity. He was. But we also don't know who he was back then. No.

1:28:42When I watched the doc about him before he got really crazy, what I saw is a guy who had some very deep social challenges his whole life. I think he's very atypical as a person. I think so, too. You know what part of the problem is? I can admit I so can't relate to hating Jewish people. It seems like the dumbest thing to me. Yeah. And so it's so cuckoo that I wonder how does one get themselves there? I hear you. And that's me, too. I'm like, I don't even understand this. Right. But six million of them were killed because someone didn't like them. Yeah. One person who created such a massive revolution that like six million of them were killed.

1:29:35So it's it sounds cuckoo. And then that is also a reality. I acknowledge a huge history of it. Even before they killed them, they weren't allowed to participate in most of the economy. Yeah. Yeah, I think they've been very poorly treated for hundreds and hundreds of years. Yeah, there's an underestimation of making a group the scapegoat of a problem. Yeah. And how really bad that can get. When you have poor white people living in the same city with poor black people and poor Latinos, we see the lack of resources in the competition that's definitely going to file onto these in groups. It's kind of quite predictable.

1:30:16like it's a bunch of people in scarcity blaming one another for their scarcity makes a lot of sense i'm not even sure where you're interacting in that circle like you're not thinking jewish people have taken your jobs you're not thinking like all these other things that perpetuate that kind of inner city poor stereotyping and racism yeah um it's just like they're not going to jail a lot. There's nothing. I'm not even sure. They're, you know. They control the media. They, there's, there's narratives. I mean, they're ridiculous, but there are narratives that get built about. That's why I'm so allergic to any stereotype, whether it's good or bad, because you don't know.

1:30:58What the good ones. No, because it's a, as soon as you start doing massive generalizations, it's slippery. Indians have really great hair. No, only me. Yeah. Yeah, it's just it's it is. I mean, I've been not really paying on purpose to much attention to what has been going on in the world. It does feel a little irresponsible. Like I'm trying to figure out the line of complete ignoring and keeping my sanity. Yeah. I haven't really found it yet, so I'm I'm sort of not partaking at all. But, yeah, things make your way to you. And it is scary. I mean, it's just that with that. And then to circle back to a little bit is, oh, my God, it's so crazy.

1:31:47he put this T-shirt up. It's not that crazy because permission has been granted by our most elite in charge to say whatever the fuck you want to say, to do whatever the fuck you want to do. Elon is doing a hail Hitler. That was at our United States inauguration. So, So, you know, I'm just saying, like, it's not out of nowhere that someone crazy like that is going to feel like, well, now is the time I can put my T-shirt up. OK, well, speaking of stereotypes, Walton. Walton Coggins. Shout out to Georgia Southern, a school near where I grew up. How far? 60 miles. Oh, you know, I don't know about miles.

1:32:40Probably further because Atlanta is really in the middle. So if it's called Southern, it's got to be closer to Florida now. No, no. It's in. It's in the Atlanta area. Well, it's in Georgia. Right. But is it in Southern Georgia? Yeah. Okay. Closer to Florida. I guess. I would imagine. I guess I've never thought of it as closer to Florida, but yeah. Next to the south of you. Let's find out how far it is from my parents' house. Great. I'm going to use maps for that. Okay, good. Okay. It's three hours and 28 minutes. Okay. So I'm from more than 60 miles. 150, 160, 180. Yeah, it's 231 miles. Whoa, that's very far.

1:33:22From my parents. From your parents. So it must really be on that border. It's here. It's here. And that's Savannah on the coast there. Okay, so it's a bit east and south from Atlanta. But yeah, it's pretty close to Jacksonville, yeah? Yeah, not too far. Not too bad. Not too far. You could be there for a lunch appointment if you had to. Oh, wow. Get some fresh oranges. I had a lot of friends who went there. You guys would drive to Disney World, obviously, right? Yeah. You were very close. Yeah, we would. Eight hours. Were we about six hours? Okay. The speed your father drove? It was eight hours.

1:33:58I think I could do it in five. Let me put it in.

1:34:04Disney World. Six hours, 55 minutes. Okay. 472 miles okay

1:34:15I'm sure you guys had to stop I know what it's like yeah we had to stop we couldn't go more than 60 damn miles this summer in Europe okay Tortuga yes Spanish word for turtle well it's a great word it is his earliest memories are in Decatur my mom worked at Decatur Federal Bank for how long that was one of her first jobs okay how long she'd serve I thank her for her service, too. Me, too. I don't know. Okay. Okay, an annulment. Yes. How does an annulment work? Okay. An annulment is a legal ruling that ends a marriage by declaring it invalid. It makes the marriage null and void as if it never happened.

1:34:55Here are the criteria. Fraud. If one spouse tricked the other into marriage. Yeah. Coercion. If one spouse was forced into the marriage. Okay. Mental incapacity. that's really bad that's ding ding ding Kanye's wife oh okay they could get an annulment if one spouse was not mentally capable of marrying physical inability if one spouse is unable to consummate the marriage yes this is interesting you were against this and I was for this I know I'm against it because you can't if someone marries you and they can't perform sex with you you needed to say that ahead of time because you can't just surprise someone and say guess what sex won't be a part of this marriage you can go well then that's obviously the understanding was there would be sex but what if you are married you're having sex yeah and then it's been consummated yeah it has been consummated yeah oh is consummate just the first time yeah yeah oh so it's not like then in two months It's like you get married and a year later you still haven't had sex.

1:36:09Well, what if you have sex and then you stop being able to? Some men have that issue. Right. So then can you annul after like a year and a half? It sounds like consummated is a very operative word. Okay. Yeah. So it sounds like never had sex. Okay. That's fair. You need to tell someone up front about that. What if you don't know? What if you've had sex with other people and then for some reason with this person, You just can't. You should get your marriage annulled and find a partner you can have sex with. That's my suggestion there for both parties. What about if there was fraud? Fraud was listed in the divorce and the annulment with Kenny Chesney.

1:36:52Renee Zellweger. Renee Zellweger. What happened? I know. That's the great curiosity. What was fraudulent about what he was promising? Or her. I think she cited fraud. Oh, if memory serves me. OK, this has been a very gossipy, extra, extra inside Hollywood edition. Yeah. Incest. If the marriage between people who are too closely related by blood. I agree with that one. Cousins, though. I agree. Wait, you don't think cousins can get married? No. Oh, you don't. That one's very loosey goosey. What? Yeah. We had an expert on that had a whole chapter about incest and has gone through the world. And it's very rare for a culture to have forbid cousins to get married.

1:37:43It's very common everywhere. No. Cousins. You mean like second and third and fourth? I don't want to marry any of my cousins. Right. But I can also imagine never even meeting your cousin. I haven't met some of mine, but I don't want to marry them. What if you met him in there? You meet him for the first time at 37. Yeah. And they're gorgeous. Great. Let's get married. Great. Meet me at the chapel. No, that's so. This is a Jonathan Hight thing. Cyclopses. No. So that's a little exaggerated. Well. Not between siblings, but. It still can. When it's too close, it's not good. Yeah, but. That's science.

1:38:24This was a part of the. The book you can't remember. I want to say it might have been Paul Bloom the last time I read his thing. I think it's been a little exaggerated, the genetic risk of cousins. I'm not, I don't want to be with my cousins, but I don't think I care if other cousins are together. Really? I don't think I do. I have to make myself care. I don't. I guess people can do what they want. I mean, it's very common throughout the world. Someone's preferred. No, it's not. Yeah, a lot of places it's preferred. No, it's not. Okay. Bigamy, if one spouse was already married to someone else, that feels fair.

1:39:08Bigamy is the only one we can come together on. You and I? Yeah. No, mental incapacity, right? And physical. Yeah, we don't. And coercion. And coercion and rock. Well, when don't we, it's just consummation. Incest. And consummation. Oh, consummation is physical. Yeah, I know. I'm on the fence about that. I can't believe you're on the fence about that. Why get married? Be friends. What if you're in? Because love is not just love is more than sex and friends. Sexual love is romantic love and you get married and then you have friendships that are loving and supportive. You could be roommates. That's great.

1:39:49but entering into the romantic bond of marriage with no attraction to the person or interests in it being sexual with them I think is a deal breaker that's a total deal breaker no hold on I want to be very clear if you're asexual I honor that and you said to the person I'm asexual I don't ever want to have sex yeah great and that person's like cool I don't either go crazy right but no but you really need to declare that okay it can't be a surprise okay I want to pivot this a little bit you put sexual love and romantic love in the same bucket you you call that the same those are synonymous for you those are synonymous yes that's interesting oh is it yeah you think that's i think there are three buckets i think there's sexual attraction okay romantic love and then friendship friendship love why would romantic love be different than the sexual love because who would you be romantically in love with that you didn't want to have sex with you would just be in friends love with them as a friend no like i think maybe this is gendered but i think for a lot of women not me because i'm not married but i could see this i could see over time being less sexually attracted.

1:41:11I mean, this happens in every marriage, right? You become like less sexually attracted to your marriage partner, but you're still romantically in love with them. You love them in a way you don't love your friends. Yes. But you had a sexual relationship that has slowed down as opposed to you were never intending to have a sexual relationship and sex was never going to be a part of this. I guess I'm just saying to me, those are, they're three buckets. They're not like loving someone romantically or loving a partner apart from sex is a different kind of love and care and, and then a love for a friend for me, for, you know, this is kind of interesting.

1:41:57Yeah. I think I'm either, uh, I want a romantic love with a woman or I want a friendship love with them. There's no third bucket for me. And considering love. Love, sure, there's people I would love to have sex with that I would not want to hang out with, which is kind of gendered, generally speaking. But, yeah, there's no one that I would want a romantic relationship with that I wouldn't want to have sex with. Wouldn't happen. Right. Then they would just be a friend. And I wouldn't marry them. Yeah. You want to marry a friend. No. And have no sex. No, I did not. And not justify an annulment if they ask for it.

1:42:44I did not say that. I didn't say that. I just think romantic love is different than sexual attraction. Obviously, you want both in your husband's life. Like romantic love is wanting to kiss the person's lips. Yeah, that's fun. Yeah. That's the same thing as sexual attraction. But. Those aren't different things to me. But over time. Like, there's no one I want to kiss really bad, but then don't want to have sex with. If I want to kiss them and I love them. But, like, over time in the marriage, not to get too personal, but, like, every time you kiss Kristen, you want to have sex with her? Like, no.

1:43:30Like, that's a. No, but I would like to have sex. sex with Kristen. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And if I didn't want to have sex with her, that would be an issue. But if you didn't want to have sex, let's say like now after so many years, you stopped really wanting to have sex with her. But you would still love her romantically in a way that is different than how you love friends. Yeah, I just, I think comparing something 20 years out and week one, no one's getting a marriage annulled after 20 years. I'm talking you marry someone. It is revealed to you. They have no intention to have a sexual relationship with you.

1:44:08I think you're definitely entitled to get out of that marriage. Yeah. I mean, I guess I agree. It's false advertisement. Well, also, it's on you. Why haven't you asked about their sexual appetites before you married them? Well, I think you have said, I can't wait to be married. I can't wait for our first night. I can't. I'm sure. And then the person didn't go. There's not going to be a first night, just so you know, because I don't want to have sex with you because I'm not romantically attracted to you at all. What if they want to really bad, but they just can't? Meaning they can get an erection?

1:44:41Yeah. Again, if you are not able to ever get an erection and have sex with your wife, then I think your wife's entitled to be with someone who can. I am sorry. It's already a bummer for you. It shouldn't also be a bummer for that person. Okay, what if a couple was waiting to have sex until they got married? Yeah. And then they both were really horny. He could get it up. Yeah. She could get it in. Yeah, yeah. And, but then on the night of the wedding, his dick gets cut off by a stranger. Someone comes, a robber comes in and he starts attacking and the robber cuts his dick off and leaves. It's still not fraud because you didn't false advertise.

1:45:25Right. You just someone cut your dick off. Yeah. That someone cuts my dick off. I'm still going to put a lot of energy into making sure Kristen's still having lots of sexual experiences. But not sexual intercourse. With my penis? No, because it's gone. It's gone. That's called consummate. Okay. So it's on the actual day of the wedding. Yeah. I mean, that's quite complicated. And I don't know if we have a single case of that ever happening. Okay. Well. But if that happened, that would be up to the gal to decide if she wanted to never have sex the rest of her life. Yeah. Or if she decided she does want to have sex, then what arrangement could they work out where she could still have sex and they could still be married?

1:46:06Do you think most men would allow her to have sex? No, most men are very jealous and terrified. That's the thing. They would not allow her to go have sex with other people. I would for sure. I would almost insist on it. I know. She probably might want to. She'd be like, can you stop? Yeah, I know. It would probably be a thing. Yeah. Like, you can't go your whole life. It's not your fault that my dick got cut off at the ceremony. Right. Yeah. Little did you know she hired that robber. Oh, my God. Because she was asexual the whole time.

1:46:37All right. But again, someone asexual is going to be upset. I'm not judging you. I'm not talking about you. Two asexual people want to get married and have a non-sex marriage. That's great. Or an asexual person with a sexual person. And if that sexual person decides it's fine. Yeah. Good luck to them. That's up to them. Everyone gets to make their own. Yeah, but everyone's got to be honest. Unless it's incest. Then you just got to be honest. Everyone has to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. If you're not honest, I think you're a bad person. You should be able to get out of that. Sure. I understand that. I also just think it's stupid.

1:47:08Like annulment to me isn't less than a divorce. Just get a divorce. Well, but it is in that there's no splitting of communal property. There's it just never happened. There's no legal fees. There's no marriage records remain on file. Yeah, but you no longer have to say I was married and divorced because you weren't. Now, that to me is fraudulent. If I married someone and then later and I found out that they had an annulment, they didn't tell me. All I'm saying is you're not a divorcee. Who cares? It's the same thing. If I marry a divorcee or someone who got annulment, same thing. If they had an annulment.

1:47:50But I definitely see why. If someone coerced you into winning, you shouldn't have to go get a divorce and have that be your ex-husband and all these things. No, I think it should be like it never happened. Interesting. You're very religious now. I am very religious. In his name we pray. Under his eye. Under his eye. All right. That was it. Yeah, that's it. Okay. Okay. I don't want you to get an annulment but it's very fun why well just because we just talked about it I don't want to have to go through any of these what avenue are you going to pursue that is so mean because you have a menu of options like I want this annulled let's hope it's not incest ugh so sad alright love you love you

1:48:42Thank you.

1:49:13slash survey.