Shaquille O'Neal

22:43Exactly. I didn't beat the shit out of you. I didn't beat the shit out of you. Let's start there. Like, I don't know if you watched the Reebok show I did, but we had a hard time. Power moves. Yeah, I was like, how many things did I miss? You missed a lot, Dad. It's like, you don't ever want to be like that. Once you have a family, you don't want to be like that. I had to be there because it was my destiny because I wanted to build something big. So I kind of had to be like this, but you don't have to be like that. So you see a lot of kids that are very successful just by hard work and passion.

23:08Just like we did. Just like all of us did. It doesn't matter if you have a degree or not. You work hard. You believe in something. You follow it. Like, my oldest son was one of the world's top DJs. Oh, really? Yeah. Miles O 'Neal. I bought him a little controller and I told him. Do you guys do shows together? Yes, we do. Midnight tonight, we're going to Germany. No? Yes. And you're doing a show together? Yeah. And you have room on your plane for me? I do. Okay. Thank you for the invite. I'll come. I remember one time I got mad, but then I smiled at the same time. So I land in LA, he picks me up.

23:38And the car smells like cannabis. So now I get in dad mode. You sound like such a dad. It smells like cannabis. Yeah. Not weed. Yeah. So now, you mother, I don't put hands on, but it gets very intense. And he starts laughing. He said, Dad, have you seen my latest report card? I said, yeah, I got old legs. He said, okay, no disrespect, Dad, but I've always had eggs. I've always did what you wanted to do. And cannabis is legal, and I'm 21. And it made me shut the fuck up. Oh, good. He kind of checkmated you. Checkmated me. You've never been into weed? No. Hookah. Yeah, you smoke hookah. That's just tobacco?

24:11Yes, it's tobacco. And does it give you a little buzz? No, it enables me to follow the routine of sit your ass down. Oh, it calms you down? It forces you to be still. When I was young and dumb and I lost my family by doing too much, being out and being in too many places. Yeah. So now, don't go to clubs. Don't go to gentlemen's clubs. If you see me in a club, it's because I'm DJing. I gave myself a lifetime ban on that stuff. But, so I'm not a mute. I don't just work and go home. I allow myself to go to hookah bars. Because at a club and bottles and you walk in and section and this and that, but at a hookah bar you sit down.

24:48So now when I'm thinking about the next move, it's blowing up. Do you regret that period of time that you were? Yes, of course I do. Because of the consequences. Yeah. But also, I don't know how you could resist that at that time. Yeah, but that's an excuse. When you're raised by intelligent people, you know better. Especially once you walk down the aisle and give those vows, you got to have some control. Well, this is my single favorite part of the doc. For people who don't know, so your biological dad, Tony, he was not around. As soon as you broke, he went on Ricky Lake. It was a bummer. Were you embarrassed by that?

25:26I would have been really embarrassed. Yes, because I didn't want people in my business. Did it feel trashy? A little bit. It's not trashy. You know, in our business, once the media gets a hold of something juicy, now I got to answer it. Oh, yeah, that was a big match for everyone. Yeah, so now it's, oh, you don't want to talk to your father and your little brother? I don't even know them people. But when I found my family, I said I have to ease up. You said in the doc, when I do the same stupid shit he did, I'm in no position to judge you. I think the fact that you were able to, I don't know about mend is the right word, but reach out and have some connection with him.

26:02That's all Dr. Lucille O 'Neal. Oh, she advised you on that? Yes, she said, listen. What a good woman. She said he's a great man, just had some mistakes. to get to know him. So when we first reconnect, I said, listen, I'm not judging you. I know everything about it, what happened. I understand. I love you, brother. But I'm 50. I don't need a dad. I hate your son. Yeah. But I respect Phillip, really, because when the guy tried to come back around, he's like, no, he's mine. Stay with me. We know who you are. We know you're brimming the world, but he's here. He's under my roof. He's under my rules.

26:38And when you want to call and talk, Here's my permission. You come through me. So what's crazy that you didn't get seemingly biologically is dad was an addict. You had to be on pain pills to play. I did. You were playing through so many injuries. Again, back to this thing where I'm suspicious that for you to admit you have any weakness would be too painful. You're just keeping it all in. You're just playing through everything. You have stuff that's going on. And yeah, you had to be on pain pills. How did that not grab you? Or did it grab you a little bit? Have you ever been scared about any of that?

27:11Addiction-wise. So I have a question. Yeah. Is addicting for the chemical effect or are you just taking it? I was having a huge discussion with my doctor. He's like, you were addicted, but I didn't feel high. Right. You just felt the absence of pain. Yes. So I didn't know that was addiction. But let's get deeper, Shaq. So there's the absence of physical pain, and then there's the absence of the mental anguish. So even if you're not feeling high, but you're suffering mentally and that thing provides relief. I don't think I was suffering mentally. If I had a knack, I would take it. I don't want to feel that knack because we need this game.

27:47Yeah. Yeah. Well, you said I could play good without them. Yes, but I need to play great. And then I always do homeboy math. Oh, it says take one. I'm taking three. Oh. Of course. Which is now my counts are low. I'm fixing everything now, but my liver and kidney is real low because of that. But like you hear stories where he was addicted, he did that. I was like, I wasn't that, but I had to have them. So is that addiction? For me, addiction is I'm preoccupied by it. I think about it. I need it. I'm talking to you, but I've got three in my pocket. I got to figure out how to take a couple. I always thought you'd take it for this effect.

28:21Oh, right. For example, when I had surgery, I had to take the oxycodone. I would take it just to feel the pain. But after I stopped feeling pain, I would stop taking it. But when I was playing, I always had to take Endosin and Arutas. Ooh. Anti-inflammatories. I had to take a club sandwich, fries, two pills, wake up. Club sandwich. Yes. That doesn't sound too addicting at all. No, that's what I'm saying. It's like, it's... No, but for 19 years. But in the summer, I wouldn't take it. When the summer started and you no longer were taking it, did you feel withdrawal effects? No. And you weren't increasing the amount.

28:52That's a big thing. Well, I was. So I'd take one, I would take two. But then would you take four and then eight and then 16? Like that type of thing. Important games, yes. I take two the night before the game and then after shoot around, take two more. Yeah. It's a fine line when it's physical pain alleviation versus your job. It's your job. Yeah. I don't know. Again, when I hear the word addiction, I always thought. Yeah. A junkie. Yeah. Yeah. But guess what? There's doctors and lawyers and airline pilots and people who are managing. Right. You can be a managed addict or a functional addict. I certainly was.

29:27I was still coming to work and doing everything I had to do. But I thought about it all day, and dosage is going up. And at some point, I'm like, oh, we're taking a lot of these. And you're hiding it. Hiding it is a big, big factor. You never hide, right? That's your gift. It's not that I was hiding. It was just. No one was asking. You were just doing it in secret. Yes. Well, the trainers knew. I mean, I'm not telling my wife or my kids or my boys, but I'm like, hey, man, I got this knee pain. Here you go. Take one. Yeah. And we're just doing. This can't be for a seven-foot long 300 pounds. Right, yeah.

29:58That's not what the study was where they just determined the dosage. And that's probably right. You've got a built-in excuse. But that was my same excuse. I'm like, they don't know me. When I drank, I also drank a case of beer a day. Like, I got a constitution. That's not for me. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

30:25okay the other really amazing thing that's really obvious in the doc is you have this incredible at the same time you have this epic humility and an epic ego and you're kind of like managing them both and you're using them both as needed. And I'm wondering when you didn't get it right. Here's an example. So you go into the league, your first round pick, your number one pick, you go to the Magic, you go to the finals year three, you beat Jordan en route to the finals at what are you? 22 years old, 23 years old? 23. Really quick. What's that moment like? It was a great moment, but it was also a teaching moment.

31:09Because when you beat God, you think the job is done. Yeah. Right. But then you have to realize in Greek mythology, there's other gods. Yeah. So we beat Mike and we had two days off. And then put it neutral? Exactly. Not put it neutral. We were partying, gentlemen's clubs. Right. You're celebrating. Yeah. Parades. Like, it was just too much. So, yeah. I mean, dude, I couldn't have managed any of this. There's no judgment in this. If I was 22 or three years old and I beat God, how could I not think everything was possible and that my powers were unlimited? I think that would be very misleading at 23.

31:43You know, I realized earlier that I lived two different lives. There's a real life. And then there's our life, the superstar life. You can't live that life harder than you live this life. So I'm a regular guy. Hello, sir. Hello, ma 'am. You always have to have that. A lot of people in our business, oh, like they live that. It doesn't look good. It's not enviable. They're not living a real life. They don't have real relationships. They don't know that until tragedy comes. Yeah. I've always been astute. I'm like, I'm not going to do that. And then I never want to disappoint my mother. Like one time we went to a restaurant, I was trashing, not trashing, but just, I'm shagging with my mom, hurry up.

32:22My mom and grandma said, baby, you don't treat people like that. Thank goodness for her. And then again, I'm programmed. When you make that one mistake, you delete it. Because if you do it again, you're going to get fucked up. Yeah. So she's like, baby. That was your warning. Yes. She's like, baby, you don't need to treat people like that. So that's why when I go to restaurants now, I want to be known as the biggest tipper. I want to let you know that, hey, I appreciate you. I was thinking, didn't we have an actor on who used to work at the Beverly Hills Four Seasons and said they waited on you all the time?

32:48Yes, and you gave very big tips. Was it, oh, this is going to drive me nuts. It was great. This person worked at the Beverly Hills Four Seasons. Was it Sebastian? The comedian, Sebastian. Oh, yes, yes. He worked there for years. And I said, who was the best customer? And literally right away, he's like, Shaquille. Shaquille would come in and you would have some shockingly little meal. I was kind of shocked with how date you had. Come in there and have a fruit platter and then leave them a hundred bucks or something. I learned early that you appreciate the people that help us become who we are.

33:19Why would I shit on the server because I'm Shaq? Right. I just really appreciate people. Me too. Okay, so back to the way you've balanced this humility and this ego. One part I love is from the second you get in a position where you're going to be doing interviews, you actually practice. You get people to come film you. You start practicing reading ads and being interviewed and realizing, oh, this is a part of my business. I got to be humble enough to not just think I can go do this. So there's like great humility in that. But then you get to the Lakers. Seemingly, this is going to be a fast pass to the finals.

33:53You guys are going to be champions. Going to be Showtime 3.0 or whatever. And just, it's not coming. And I'm imagining, if you had to say you were at a lowest point, was that lowest point when you should have been winning and it wasn't happening? I was at the tipping point. I'm going crazy. A lot of people don't realize that. But every time we lose, of course, it's going to be my fault. And I'm being a great free-throw. It's to tear my house up. I have to be cordial at the press conference. But when I get home, whatever I see. It's getting smashed. Yeah. Class. So one time, I think it was our last time we got swept before Phil came in.

34:28I'm in the locker room. It's piss and shit everywhere. I'm fucking ripping off urinals, ripping off the doors. You're hulking out. I'm going crazy. And somebody grabs me, and it's pretty strong. I'm like, get the fuck off me. And I turn around, it's Mr. West. So now I have to turn it off. He pushes me. And I fucking go back. Calm the fuck down. You're going to get it done. And he tells me that he went to the finals seven, eight, or nine times and lost before he won. He never won. I think he won one. I don't think he ever won. I think that's the great heartbreak of Jerry West. I don't think he ever won.

35:01I don't know. Rob will look it up. I'm like, hold on. Seven finals? Can you imagine the agony? Not first round, second round. Finals. And he was like, I fucking believe in you. We're going to get it done. And then he tells her, we're going to make some fucking changes. This coach is out there. We're going to get a new coach. When he said I got a new coach, I'm trying to help him out. I saw Phil was having problems in Chicago. I was like, you need to call Phil. So then Phil does something that I don't know if he'd think I was going to pass his test. Because when you hear that, this guy's a problem, this guy's a problem, you hear these guys are divas.

35:33Sometimes you don't want to deal with divas. You got to make sure you're coachable. Yes, exactly. So I get to Montana. He tells you, come see me in Montana. Test number one, really. Yes, test number one. And you don't even know where Montana is, is it? I don't. So I go to Montana. He has this nice log cabin house, and I see the fucking balls and the sunroof, and it's hitting those balls. And I knock on the door, and he says, I need you to do me a favor. And I say, what? He said, you and my son need to move that log from the front to the island. Swim across a lake, a big old log. Yeah. That's a big swing to tell you to go swim to an island pushing a log.

36:06But what he doesn't realize is my field used to do the same shit. I ain't got no gas. Push my car two miles. But still, you could have been like, I'm Shaq. I'm not doing that. I could have. But that's where Phil's the gift that keeps on giving. You're kind of hardwired at that point to respond to that kind of command, right? Again, it's when you respect someone. Yes. But I know it was a test and his son was already in the water. So I was like, all right. I just didn't realize how fucking cold it was. That sounds miserable. So he comes in and then you have this incredible... Three in a row. I got to tell you a really quick, funny story.

36:39You got me out of a DUI. I went to UCLA. A classmate and I were the biggest fuck-ups at UCLA. He's now a professor there, which is hysterical. Jason Deleon. And you guys won in 2000. And we were such Lakers fan. And we went out hard. And we were both riding on my motorcycle in Venice. And we saw cops. And we tried to turn down an alley. And we ended up in a bush. Then the cops caught us. And we were both like, we're fucked. We're going to jail. And the cops were like, what's happening here? and Jason goes, I'm sorry, officer. I've been a lifetime Lakers fan. We're just celebrating that they won.

37:17And then the cop goes, I'm a lifetime Lakers fan too. Why don't you guys get a cab home? Oh, nice. And let us out. That's awesome. Anyways, yeah, you guys go on this huge run and then there's another part of the doc that I'm curious about and someone who I think has the same kind of money things, which is like, I wanted it. I'm so afraid of losing it. It's so important. That's the metric I'm going to evaluate myself on. What did you pay me? What did my co-star make? Why'd he make more? I should be here. That racket. Do you think you cared about money too much sometimes? Of course. It takes never having it to want it.

37:53And then once you get it, you know that there's a window you can get more. My dream was to make$8 million for 10 years. That was my dream in high school. I had it on the board. You remember that place? There was a store I used to go. I think it was called Spencer's. Oh, Spencer's Gifts. Spencer's Gifts. So Spencer had a poster with this nice house with three-car garage. Remember that? Justification for higher education. Yes, yes, that. Boom. I had that. Had a Lamborghini Countach, a Ferrari. Oh, my God. And a Porsche. I had that on my wall. Yeah, yeah, I did too. And I was like, you know what?

38:23Eight million for 10 years. And I already had them. I might get a Jimmy Blazer and get me a little Benz and get me an old school something. So then I'm in college one day and I think Derek Coleman signs for 20. Larry Johnson signs for 30. So did I get an agent? He said, man, I'm going to ask him for 50 million. I was like, what? Like 50 million. So I was one of the first guys that you sign, but in the middle of your deal, you can renegotiate and get more money. So when I signed my 50, my guy was like, hey, man, if you do what I expect you to do, your next contract will be 100 million. Oh, my God.

38:55I was like, what? So that's why I'm going crazy. So now when my time's up, I want 150 because I learned in the marketing class, you always start high. Yeah, right. I'm not going to say 100 because I already know you're going to walk me down to 80. I want 150. The Orlando's like, we're not paying you 150. And then one night during the Olympics, Jerry West, first time I met Jerry West, he showed me that contract. I saw so many zeros. 120, 00. Looked like a telephone number. Yes. So I signed with the Lakers. But then my guy was like, hey, man, if you do well with this, you can get another 100. You bring three titles.

39:26Exactly. Oh, my God. Yeah. So then I want more. And it's like, no, we like the young guy more. We think we're going to trade you. And then I go to Miami and the guy was like, hey, man, if you help us win, I give you 100. I made a lot. So the answer is yes. It seems like you learned a little bit. I mean, there was a point where, yes, the money was really, really important in the Lakers. And then when you're on the Heat, Riley or whoever said, look, I can give you 125 and we get nobody. Or I can give you 100 and we can get a winning team. You made the decision then. Because I knew I had to win one more.

39:54And why did you have to win one more? Be honest. Because I wanted to win before you did. Yeah. I would be the same. You wanted to win before Kobe. Yeah, because you guys had to share that glory. Yes. And then you get split up. And yeah, if he runs away and does it immediately, then that diminishes. That's the ego part. Again, it's the balancing. Yes, but it actually made both of us great. Because I know I used to drive him crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I knew what he was. I knew what he was capable of accomplishing. I used to drive him crazy. It's impossible, the fact that you're both on the same team.

40:27I know. When you look at the history of the NBA, the fact that both of you, It'd be like Jordan and Wilt were on the same team or you name the people. Yeah, but my leadership style always focused on the task. If I was with you guys, my task would be make us go viral. I'd bring over everything and we'd argue and fight. We're going to have to pull our pants down, I think. Yeah, we'd be going to argue and fight. I think the picture of me standing next to you is going to be pretty impressive for people. Basketball is so interesting because when you were talking about Kobe and the teams, it's one of the only sports that it is such a team sport.

40:59You need each other. You rely on each other. But then there's also superstars in the mix. There are best players. I just feel like that could get so complicated relationally. And if you look at our relationship, it's the classic tale of the godfather. You got the godfather who came from Orlando, and he's the godfather. But you got a young capo. And then finally... Are you Michael or are you Sonny? I think you're Sonny. No, he's Michael. Yeah, Kobe. Yes, I'm the godfather. Okay, great. Because remember, when I came to LA, I was already established. Yeah. I was the biggest in the league, so he's there and he wants it.

41:37You guys are so fucking different, too. I know, yes. He's like speaking Italian. Yes. You couldn't be more opposite. We win three, we do a lot of deals, and then finally, I get assassinated. They thought I was dead, and I relocate to Miami. I got to get it back. Show up in a semi. Yeah, it's business. And, you know, for me, being relocated every four years, I just said to myself, I just did two terms in L.A. Now it's time to move on. But I was always thinking about what would happen if we would have stayed together. We either would have won more or it would have ended very badly. And then I had to teach myself, stop wearing.

42:11It's a useless title. The people in your life already think the way they think about you. Exactly. Lucille's been thinking you were this from the jump, right or wrong. And Uncle Jerome said it best. He's like, look, you get paid the most on the team. You're going to be the one they blame. That comes with the paycheck. It's the deal. But when you were stressed, did it ever cross your mind? Because I've had this thought when I've directed movies, which is, boy, these directors that are fucking assholes ain't great movies. Do I got to be a dick? Do I got to be Jordan and have my teammates hate me?

42:40Did you ever consider that you were too nice or that you had too much fun? Were you fearful you had to be an asshole to win? Yes. And then I became an asshole. You did? Yeah. So you do have to be in the house? Yeah. You think so? Because earlier I was focused on the relationship. You all right? But now I'm focusing on the task. That's sad. I wish you were the same. No, it's not sad. Let me tell you why. Yeah. If I know you're going to give me your best rhetoric when you're upset, I'm going to make you upset. So I know Kobe's going to be a monster when he's mad. Motherfucker, this ain't your team.

43:11This is my team, little motherfucker. Yeah. They can scream Kobe all you want. This is my fucking team. And it would drive him crazy. People are like, oh, he was in the gym working out. That's because you ain't shit. That fucking Michael Jordan jump you're doing is not going to work. What'd he do? Go fucking shoot a million times to show me how to work. And I needed that because I already know what I'm going to do. So if I'm giving you 28, 30, and this guy's trying to match me and outdo me, that's 60 fucking points. Now, Rick. It's still for the overall. That's what I'm saying. Now, Rick, when I kick it to you, give me one.

43:41Big shot Bob, B-Shaw. Me and him are going to do most damage. People don't understand everything I did was planned, and it's never personal. Like, oh, why don't you and Kobe don't get along? I don't want us to get along. I want us to fucking win. And then Brian Shaw asked Phil one day, why you never jump on Kobe? You always jump on Shaq. And his response was, I always want Kobe to be in attack mode. Interesting. Okay, so you want him in attack mode. I'm going to make sure he attacks. You played fucking soft last night, motherfucker. You missed too many shots. I was just driving crazy. I knew exactly what I was doing.

44:11And then whenever he says something to his guy, say something to my guy, they're talking about us. Marketing. The more marketability we have, the more money we have. It's a story. Exactly. You know, some of your story I had wrong. I thought you came out, you were huge, and then you're like, now I'm going to be a rapper. Now I'm going to be a movie star. And I was shocked to learn you went on Arsenio after the first finals run at the end of the season. And you, for fun, as a bit, rapped with Fushnickens. Not after the finals. That was my rookie year I did that. Okay. You win rookie of the year.

44:43Season's over. You go to Arsenio. You rap with Fushnickens for fun. and then the next morning someone offers you a$10 million record contract. I'll do any job for$10 million. That's my point. I'm in four seasons. I see one of Chris Rock's boys. I want you to be in my movie. First movie I did was CB4. Before Blue Chip. Before Blue Chip. CB4 was the first. I'm sitting there and Chris Rock is, man, I'm a basketball fan. I know who you are. I know who you are too. He's like, man, you want to be in my movie? He's like, sure. And then four seasons again, sitting in there and the guy says, He said, hey, man, I want you to do this movie, Blue Chips.

45:19So, you know, I don't know the stuff. So I said, talk to my agent. Because, you know, that's the thing to say. Well, okay, I'll get you to my agent. And my agent's like, bro, this is a real movie. That was a great movie. As a youngster, you dreamed about it. But I wasn't going to L.A. chasing that. But you got to take advantage of these opportunities. And I said, I'm not a movie star. I'm three million. I'll do it. Yeah. What do I have to do? You just have to play a basketball player. I think I can get away with that. I can probably do that. If ever there was a role, I might be able to pull off.

45:47In the doc, I thought it was so interesting. You said you fouled Jordan and then you went to go help him. And he was like, don't help me. Don't help anyone. And I heard that and I was like, God, that sounds so cruel. Just sounds like such a hard way to live your life. But I guess it works. And he was only giving me that brotherly advice because we're in the same fraternity. A lot of times you see greatness in other people. All the legends, they respected me for the way that I played. But did you have to turn that off once you left the court? Were you able to go back and forth like that? Yeah, easily.

46:20I don't like it either, but, you know, as he sits here and he's got four rings, I realized you go to a restaurant and be friends. No, I agree. You got a whole life to be nice and be friends. Exactly. You got 48 minutes to do something at a high level. As long as you're able to do both. That's where it gets tricky, I think. Right. I think some people can't turn it off, and then that's who they are. You have to turn it off because it'll burn you out. Yeah. I got so many motivating factors. Got to play well. Got to make money. I don't make money when my mother's going to lose her house. Ah, got to win.

46:53Oh, shit. They compare me to Kareem and Will. It was just so many. And integrity. There were times where you're like, I feel like I'm robbing these people. They gave me all this money. I know, right? Well, that's the last thing I want to say, even though we'll talk about campus. But the thing I've admired about you the most, and I've said it on this show like 35 times, I watch all these sports docs. I'm not super into sports, but I am very into sports docs. I love them all. A lot of these folks haven't seemed to balance fun and success. And I think, okay, Jordan got six, but it came at a pretty big price in my opinion.

47:30That's not how I would want my teammates to talk about me. Colby got five. That came at a big price. People didn't love Bird. When I look at you, that's it for me. If you can get four and have a good time, I'd rather get four and have a good time than get six and be miserable. Right. And I just wonder, is that just your nature or is that something that you've actually been conscious of? I've always been a class clown, so I do it for real. You're just you. You're very authentic. I'm silly. I like to make people laugh. You have the best Instagram account. Thank you. And all of Instagram. I say this all the time.

48:03He talks about it all the time. I do. I'll turn on, I'm like, oh, this song's been out for two days. And Shaq already memorized the words. And now he's fucking doing a dance and singing to it. I didn't know my mom knew what Instagram was. So when I first started. Do whatever you wanted. So I'm bragging. And I get the call. Baby. I get the call. Like, baby, we know how much money you make. Don't throw it in. I love her. I knew where the social media thing was going. So that's when I said, okay, 60 % to make you laugh. 30 % to inspire you. And then 10%. The floss. Floss. Not floss. Sell. Like, hey, I got the new Reebok.

48:38Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I've seen you on a boat. That's in that 10 % category. Can we talk about privacy for just two seconds before we get into the... What is your relationship to privacy? Because you can't go anywhere. Yes. In fact, we had the experience. You wouldn't know this, but we were in Austin at Formula One and we were on the grid. That's right. I'm getting some attention. Kristen's getting some attention. and then all the attention stopped. It was palpable. And I'm like, what happened? Everyone's looking a certain way. And I look and I'm like, oh, Shaquille's a quarter mile away. And we all see him.

49:12The whole fucking stadium. You're the most recognizable person on earth. Yeah, you cannot hide. And I was like, either he loves her or it's got to be brutal. I don't know. So I try to be righteous. Whatever I'm saying or doing, that's who I am in real life. We have no privacy. You in particular. I can't tell you one thing and then be doing something else. So it keeps you honest. It's just about being honest. I can't tell the podcast that I don't drink and then be at the club. Right. So I try to be as righteous as possible. And it's the world we live in now. Did you have any phase where you're like, fuck, I can't escape this and I need a break.

49:45And I want to go to Arby's and I don't want anyone to see me. My problem is that sometimes when you see something, your brain can be manipulated. For example, if I reach over and put my hand on your leg, but not because I'm trying to correct your leg because I slip and I fall. Oh, yeah. They can manipulate that picture. Like, I don't believe Shaq went to Dak's thing and he was trying to rub it. Like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And then once it goes viral, people will take that clip to try to build up their site. A lot of times relationships can be manipulated. Because I remember one time I was at a bar and a girl came and took a picture.

50:17My girlfriend was, you fucking taking those people? I was like, what are you talking about? She shows me the picture. And I told her, I said, what are you laughing at? I said, it does look like we're together. Yeah. I'll give you that. I'm going to grant you that. Did you forget I told you where I was coming to eat? Like, yeah, so I'm stupid enough to tell you I'm coming to eat here and then bring another girl. That's the only thing I don't like. I had a woman in a hot tub say, hey, can we take a picture? And I said, well, certainly not in this hot tub. But there's no way I'm in a hot tub with you.

50:44You have to be extra careful. But we have no privacy, but I just try to live a true life. I look at the amount of businesses you have and I get them exhausted looking. Like you have 155 guys at one point and you own all these car washes and chicken restaurants, all this stuff. It seems exhausting. Yet you have things like campus. When you say I'm done kind of going into ventures because I'm trying to get more money and I'm actually trying to go into ventures where I can spread happiness and joy. I think the rubber meets the road on this. How did you stumble upon campus? So let me take you back.

51:19If it wasn't for basketball, I wouldn't have never thought of college. A lot of people know they can't afford college. A lot of people know they're not getting scholarships. A lot of people know that if they do go to college somehow and get this money, they're going to be in debt for a long time. So when I met the gentleman, Todd Day, who kind of created, he said he purchased a two-year college in Sacramento, and he put it together. He wanted to make it debt-free. He wanted to make it to where you can go to a two-year college of your choice and be taught by professors at elite universities. It's online.

51:48they help you get the grant money that already exists. There's$40 billion in federal grant money that's out there. $4 billion of it went unclaimed last year. Yeah, but we don't know these things. Right. So help you get that grant money. Yep. Be online, real online, not you watch this recorded video of a professor. And then, yeah, some of the professors, there's Stanford professor, UCLA, Princeton professor, and they help you get funding. They're sending 80 % of the students a free laptop because they don't have one. Yes. They're paying for half of these students' Wi-Fi because they know they need good Wi-Fi.

52:23Yep. Todd A., a special dude. He is. I used to go to all these conferences because I wanted to feel smart. Yeah, yeah. You want to be smart, hang around smart people. So this was when Jeff Bezos, years before he created Amazon, he said, you invest in things that's going to change people's lives. Because at that point, I was investing in ghetto shit and crazy shit and was losing. Shirts with pinstripes. I was trying to get rich quick. So then he said, you invest in things that's going to change people's lives. So Ring was the first one. Did another one. Then I came across this. I was like, this is definitely going to change people's lives.

52:53This helps you get to it quicker. As you know, college, my first three years, I'm a junior and I'm in the league. I'm like, how come I don't know what a subchapter S corporation is? How come I don't know what FICA is? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like I don't know any of this. Well, the best is your mom, you wanted to leave LSU, or you're considering, as you should, to go to the NBA. And your mom's like, okay, baby, come balance this checkbook. Well, your dad said no. My dad said no. He was like, absolutely not. Mom said, balance the chip book. And I took one accounting class that I fucking failed.

53:22But I remember debits and credits. So I'm like, she's like, you're not ready. So then my junior year, I took some business courses. And I was like, I'm going to retake this accounting class. I know the professor. I know I'm a pastor. So now when she said, because I already knew the moon, okay, balance the chip book. She said, okay, baby, you're ready. I know. I love that story. Also, Dale Brown, to his credit. Again, this guy would have benefited greatly if you stuck around. and you were just getting hacked nightly. And he's like, this dude's going to get injured and not even be able to play if I keep him here.

53:55It was called Lloyd's in London. It was a million-dollar policy, which is a lot. But he knows a million dollars ain't going to be a million dollars. Probably going to be$400 ,000. And how long is that going to last? So he's like, man, you got a chance. Because he called me at all. He's like, man, Derek Coleman or Larry Johnson, whatever you want, made$20,$30 million. You can get$40. You can get$50. You got another guy believing in me. He's like, yeah, you should go. That's awesome. Like, for real? He's like, yeah, you should go. I was like, what about getting my degree? You'll come back. I'll coordinate with the teachers.

54:24You come back whenever you're ready and you graduate. Because I was very close to graduating. But never really did it. And then after I shot all those movies, my mom said, hey, man, I need to get this degree. So then I finally did it. Campus also has success coaches available to everyone. Talk about why that's necessary. I'm in school now at LSU because I wanted to become a sports psychologist. Currently you're? Yes, currently right now. You made good on your promise to your mom and you got your BA from LSU. Then you got a master's and then you got a doctorate in education. Oh my God. I didn't know any of this.

54:59You're sitting with a doctor girl. We're in a doctor's studio talking to a doctor. It's double doctor. Wow. Different type of doctor. Yeah, but still. Now you're pursuing sports psychology. I'm changing it up to mentorship now. I'm all about validity. For example, if I want to be an actor, I'm definitely coming to you and your lovely wife. Let's be honest. You're going to my lovely wife. No. If I'm around, you might ask me where you park when you get to the studio. Because y 'all are valid in the space. So one time I went to a sports psychologist and a fucker tells me to breathe. And I'm like, you don't know what it's like to be in Sacramento down by one.

55:35And if you miss this shot, it's your fault. There's cowbells. Yes. So that always stuck with me. No disrespect to what they know on the academia side. Yeah, but they've never done it. Thank you. Yeah, no experience. There you go. And then there's nobody out there like us. So, you know, that's the ego. I want to be the first because I know you know as a kid. I know. Been there a lot of times. Done it with the best people. So I wanted that title. And then when I'm changing it to mentorship, a lot of these young athletes, young men need mentors in their life. I just took my first class. It was about the book, The Odyssey.

56:09Good timing. I mean, I think Nolan's got a movie coming. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, I saw that. So I'm learning a lot about mentorship, and I'm going to probably lean towards being a mentor rather than being a sports psychologist. But a lot of these kids that end up at campus, they don't have a parent that went to college. So many of them are going to be first generation to go to college. Yeah, I can relate. What a great asset to have there for them, to have someone go like, okay, you're failing here, you got to do this, helping them through the process. We definitely offer a mentorship program and I will be assisting in that.

56:42Being who we are, we automatically get the respect. Like you said, Phil Jackson's resume because of our resume. We always just try to keep it simple. I love that. That's so admirable. You could just be on your boat all day. You don't have to do any of this. You don't need a doctor. You don't need any of these things and you're pushing yourself. Yeah, because when I look at today's athletes, I know what their problem is in one sentence. And you know that I know. I'm not one of these fans. you know that, hey, stop trying to go to the middle, go baseline. Joker. Jig is up. Your bullshit meter's high for that.

57:14Yeah. They know that I know. I actually learned that from an old coach, Bill Berker, with the Lakers. I didn't know who he was. I don't pay attention to shit. He would always say, go baseline, go baseline. And then one day he said, that's the same thing I used to tell Will. So now I'm paying attention. You coach Will? Yeah, I coach Will. And I coach Karim. So now I know this fucker knows what he's talking about. Yeah. baseline. I averaged eight more points and I still think them to this day. So I want to be that for these young kids. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

57:55I try to imagine your initial meetings with these companies and here's my guess. I feel like when you go in to be an ambassador for a company or invest in a company, you're like, okay, here's what I'm going to provide. I need to be able to give a lot of this away. Is that part of the discussion? Like when you became the president of Reebok, every time I see you go out to talk about Reebok, everyone that's in the area is getting free shoes. Yes. You gave away like a hundred and something shoes on found the other night. I was thinking the person had to ship all those after you just shot your mouth off.

58:24One is marketing, and two is about when I meet with the companies, I know they know me as a basketball player. So this is what I tell them. I'm the center. You're the point guard. You're the forward. We're here to win championships. I'm not here to take your money. Because on the business side, a lot of times I ask them, what's your out? I wouldn't mind investing in a company that we get bought by Amazon. It's not really a goal, but it would be nice if it happens. So I always ask them, they're out. So now that I know what your out is, so now I know, hey, hopefully I can help you get to that. And we had that with Ring.

58:58That was my first out, and I got a nice hit. It was so beautiful. So now I'm chasing that. Now that I'm chasing money, I'm like, how can I help make this company grow so somebody can grow to this? Take it to the next level. Yes, yes. So in classic Shaq fashion, you're giving away a bunch of scholarships? Yes. Giving away a bunch of scholarships because we want people to fulfill their dreams. and we have the opportunity to do that. And a lot of people call it giving back. I'm just doing what my mother told me to do. When she sees this and hears that story, that's better than you made over$500 million.

59:31That's better than you just bought a new house, 10 ,000 square feet in Dallas. She don't care about none of that shit. Yeah, yeah, she's not impressed. At all. And I'm getting older, she's getting older. It's a charity's moment. So I chase those moments more than I chase anything else. So how many scholarships are you giving out? A lot. I don't want to say nothing, but definitely a lot. And if it's not a lot, now that I said a lot, I'll make it a lot. I think it is a lot. Anyone who wants to apply for a scholarship at campus goes to shackscholars.campus.edu. Yes. shackscholars.campus.edu. Go there.

1:00:06Listeners, do this. This is an awesome opportunity. So many kids right now are pretty disillusioned. Like, wait, I'm going to go pick up$150 ,000 in debt, enter a job market that I don't even know will be there at the end of all that. Exactly. This is like a disruptor approach. It is. We want to help people, and I wish I could take all the credit, but Todd is a mastermind behind us, and you got the Silicon Valley boys behind us, and it's been doing very well. All right, my last question, because it seems like we have a very similar relationship with our moms and a similar respect for our moms.

1:00:37I sometimes worry about my life with her not on the planet, keeping an eye on me. Not for safety, but because she's been my conscious. We are the same people. She's what's kept me. When I've been in a crack house, everything's fun. I'm smoking crack. This is a good time. And then, God damn, if my mom saw this. A friend of mine, mother, just died. And I didn't know what to say. Because I don't know how that feels. But I think about that all the time. I do a lot of speaking engagements. And people will say, what do you want to say? Reach out. And I always tell the story. I don't know if you heard it.

1:01:09Get to see my sister in Orlando on a Thursday. Yeah, it's cancer. But it's her third time having it. She beat it the two times. They don't tell me that it's stage four. They don't want me to worry. So I see her, but I'm in athlete mode. Fuck it, you beat it the last two times. I called the best doctors. We good. But they're not telling me anything. But I ask her. I say, hey, you want me to stay here? And something said, just stay with her today. But I had a business deal in LA. I need to go get this money right quick. But so in my mind, I was like, you don't want me to stay, but I'm going to go do the deal.

1:01:39Leave there about two, you know, three hours back. So get there at 11. Stay all day. Leave at six, which is a red-eye flight. on a plane, she passes away. But the point is, I never got to tell her I love her. But if I would have stayed there with her all day, maybe the doctor would have been like, hey, you have stage four. Then I would have, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you. You would have stopped everything. Yeah, and then same thing with Kobe. We had our little riff, and then I'm downstairs practicing with my son. And listen, Kobe was good to my kids. They love him, his Uncle Kobe.

1:02:11I always tell people, this is dad beef. He seemed to have immense integrity. Yes. And then, so I remember one time I was in San Antonio. It was like, you hate Dave Robinson. I say, yeah, but not to the point. If I see him at a restaurant with his beautiful wife, I'm going to beat him up. This is a, this is a dad thing. So anyway, they love them. So I'm working with one of my sons and one of my oldest sons come crying. So now I'm trying to stop time. My mother died. Your mother, one of your boys get like shot. Hey man, what you crying for? Kobe passed away. And I said, what the fuck you just said to me?

1:02:44It feels impossible. Healthy, vibrant. Because the night before, we just watched LeBron break his record. All day talking about Kobe. Kobe passed away. I said, bro, stop fucking playing. So now on the phone, it's going crazy. I need confirmation. I'm calling people. So now I have to break down. But it makes me like, fuck. I know. I saw him at the last game. We had a little thing, but I could have. So I always tell people, hey, reach out. X. Yeah, well, if I were you, I think I would have wanted to. say to him maybe, hey, you made me better. I want to thank you for that. Yes. Or hi. Or thank you.

1:03:20Yeah. Anything. Anything. So always, always people. Even though I say it, I still need to do it. One thing that made me sad in the doc was the penny stuff. Yeah, that made me sad too. Like, are you good with penny? Yeah, we're all good. I was young and dumb. Like you said, remember the ego thing? Yeah, yeah. Ego. Well, and it's almost not your fault. No, it was. I mean, yes. It was. I'm tactful enough to fix any situation. Sure, the repair, probably you could have done better. But I'm saying the context you come from, I got to have this. This is how I'm valued. I know this is how I'm valued. Why don't I have this?

1:03:54I understand it. And then again, it was a godfather thing. Oh, I'm the fucking man. You're trying to say he's a man, Mr. Commission? No, no, no. Oh, you don't want me? Okay. The LA mafia wants me. Rather than saying, okay, you control this part of the business, I control that part. Like magic, this thing worked perfectly. This is a completely stupid question. This is my last one. I don't know why I've always thought this, but all those years I was obsessed with the Lakers. I was like, I think if I would have been bros with anybody on that team, it'd be Robert Ori. Yes. What do you think about Ori?

1:04:22I love Ori. You know, Kobe and I get a lot of credit, but definitely would not have won any without the others. So I always try to stare the man. Big Shot Bob saved both of our ass a lot. Rick Fox saved our ass a lot. B Shaw, Gary Payton. Those ones that catch on fire sometimes. And you're like, ooh, as a fan, you'd be like, oh, thank God. Yes, yes. I always tried, but he was a great guy. And they really respected me. They knew me. They understood me. Like, everybody always talking about, oh, if you would have been in better shape. My method is my method. You beat me up so much during the year, I'm not doing shit in the summer.

1:04:54Because I already know mentally, when I come back, I'm fucking killing whoever's in my way. Take me some time to get there, but, you know, I don't need to come in the first 40 games. I got the quintessential ingredient. Exactly. And then I'm going to come in. Everybody's going to talk their shit. I'm just going to get me mad. and then I'm going to turn it on. Like, I don't want to come in with the lights. I don't want to come in with the lights dim and see what's going on and then turn them on at the right moment. Because a lot of times when you come in in shape, you get worn out. I'd rather work up to it.

1:05:20So I just came in with how I came in. And then, like I always say, I want a skinny shack, medium shack, and fat shack. I've lied to you because I've said the last question three times. This is the last one. Four. Four, probably five. Another favorite part of you for me is, I remember one time you came to a game and you were fucked up. I think maybe you didn't come out to the second quarter. And then you're getting interviewed after the game and they're like, big fellow, what was going on? And then you rap, you freestyle, stop it, El Pollo Loco, eat a bunch of chicken, have diarrhea in the locker room.

1:05:57I'm like, this dude's my dude. And then the other day you were mid live broadcast on TNT and you had to fucking walk. You were about to shake your pants. And I was like, this is my view. An unauthorized evacuation is about the funniest thing of all time. It is. It's so human. What could be more new? I know, right? Even Superman's almost going to shit his pants sometimes. Well, that's it, man. You've just brought so much joy to my life and so many other people's lives. And I forgot about the Tom Morrow thing, but I remember that. That was a fun cul-de-sac, man. It was. It was you, Tom Morrow, and Charlie Sheen was up the street.

1:06:36I mean, you talk about three crazy people. That's happening. Well, great to see you. I hope everyone goes to shackscholars.campus.edu and starts that education journey. I mean, if this dude could find time to pick up a master's, a bachelor's, and a doctorate. No excuses. Yeah, I can't imagine someone's got a better excuse. Can I use your restroom? Number one. All right, be well, brother. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes. all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's gotta let them have the facts. I saw you've done an architectural digest spread. It was not an architectural digest spread.

1:07:20But thank you for bringing it up because I would like to shout it out. There's a very awesome shoe company called Margo. I like feel like I'm doing something wrong. Sure. Me too. Are you recording on your zoom i am but also wait rob you said something's supposed to be like click to the right thing what's that mean sea levels but it's like how high the ocean is okay so there's a very cute shoe company called margo and hold on i'm exposing my can you see my leaf blower i keep in my office yeah okay like over here it looks like i have a nice office and then i scooch this way and you You go, no, it's a shed.

1:08:06Wow, mixed messies. Yeah, yeah. Okay, sorry. Shoe company. Yeah, and they pick some people to kind of photograph them in the shoes, but they want to do it in their environment. So we did it in my apartment, and it was so cute. The photographer was incredible. Her name is Sydney. Shout out to Sydney. And I thought it was also so nice because now I get like pictures in my apartment before I leave it. I was going to say, I would imagine they turned out great to the degree I would imagine people think that's your new house. For a little apartment, it's quite nice. It is quite nice. I've spent a lot of time making this a very nice apartment.

1:08:52Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been in here eight years plus. Have you really? Yeah, I moved in before we started the show. Oh, wow. Boy, time, it just boogies along. When did you return home from New York? Okay, I got home on Friday. I have so many stories. I have one that I am so excited to tell you. Okay, great. And just to recap, the last time we recorded was at Dr. Mike's beautiful place. It was. We're resuming from there. Yes, we were together in New York and then you left. I stayed a week and I even added a day. Right. Which turned out to be fortuitous. It was fortuitous because it rained that day and all of the lights were grounded.

1:09:38I was texting with my friend Ben and he was sitting on a tarmac for like three and a half hours trying to leave New York on the day you were supposed to leave. Yeah. And I just the day before I just knew I was like, I don't I'm not going home tomorrow. I'm not going home. I'm going to extend. And my powers are so scary. I bet they're starting to scare you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, not to remember when I accidentally killed Michelle Trachtenberg. Like my powers are wild. OK, careful. I know, but I just I just want to own it. Like I I have to be I I'm trying to use them for good. But like sometimes things go willy nilly.

1:10:21Right. You're like Terrence Posner. You haven't really perfected your powers yet. You're just coming to realize you have them. I'm like year one, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, you're like putting the stepbrother in the snake exhibit. You know, you're still there. Yeah, but he deserved it. And Michelle Trackerberg did not deserve it. No, no. I want to be clear about that. I'm nervous to even talk about her, to be honest. Look, obviously, it's a horrible, horrible tragedy. um but and i realize i this is genetic like my dad um well we know my dad has powers but also he when i was home with him and he was talking about quantum mechanics and quantum physics and how that's going to be his retirement plan he um he was like but i don't want to learn too much Like he was worried that if he like knew too much, it would like make him go crazy kind of.

1:11:19And that's feels the same as this to me for some reason. I can understand how he would have that fear. Yeah. Like if you really know how the sausage is made, maybe something is lost. OK, but hit me with your New York story. It was all so, so fun. And I was it was confirmed that, like, when I'm there, I'm just at 100. Like, I'm going from place to place to place. I'm walking everywhere. I'm seeing everyone. I'm eating everything. Thank God I had been off of TRIZ for a little bit. So I was able to enjoy. So you could enjoy. Thank God. Yeah. So anywho. It's a rare, rare comment to hear someone say, thank God I wasn't on TRIZ that week.

1:12:07I know, but it's true. Like, can you imagine if I hadn't been able to eat all the, although it's a little, it's a little confusing because I was expending so much energy that maybe I would have been hungry anyway. I don't know. So Ana came to New York for a couple of days, which was so fun because she was coming back from Europe and she was like, why not stop in New York? So she came, that was great. Yeah. Her and I went to my favorite restaurant in New York, pretty much top three favorite restaurants of all time. It's called East Soty. Oh, it's the restaurant where the mystery happened last time with that guy, Kenneth.

1:12:50Yeah. OK, great. Kenneth. Which you didn't bump into him again. No. Or maybe you did. Maybe that's the story. OK. It's not the story. That story has no conclusion. The mystery remains. Yeah. Yeah. OK, we're there. We have a very early reservation, like as it opens five o 'clock, we get there and I look over and I'm like, wait a minute. That's Martha Stewart. Martha Stewart was at ESOTY. My girl, my dream side piece. Yes, she's. Oh, oh, my God. It's definitely the best celebrity sighting I've ever had in the wild. Like that. It was so crazy to see her also eating at the restaurant I'm eating at.

1:13:36It was such an endorsement. Oh, yeah. How validating. Was she there with Snoop Dogg? No. Oh, no. She was with a whole bunch of other people. She was in head to toe yellow Susie Condi. Susie Condi is a clothing brand that you definitely know because Kristen wears a lot of Condi and I have a couple of pieces. They're kind of like velour sets. Airplane gear, right? No, you can wear them out. You can wear them to Esoti. OK, they've been pitched to me as an airplane. Like you want to be comfortable on an airplane, but you want to look stylish. So that I was told is premium airplane wear. It's great for a plane.

1:14:16It's great for Esoti. It's great all the time. But she was in yellow. It looked so good. It made me really want the yellow one. I almost tried to go during the trip to copy her, but then I didn't. Anyway, she looked. And how close were you seated? The whole restaurant is so small. So like, you know, I'm not good at feet. Okay. Could you, like, I'm asking, was she two tables over, six tables over, one table over? Wow. And who is she with? I didn't know. I wondered if it was like her family. There were a lot of people there, but no one I recognized except her. Also, I should say there are two tables in between, but the one in between no one was sitting at.

1:14:53So I just had a very open view. Oh, great. She looked gorgeous. She looked so good. Uh-huh. Then I found out yesterday, adding to the sim of all of this, there was a picture of her in the cut. She's wearing the yellow condi. So I think it was that day that we saw her, that she was photographed. And she has like a new skincare line or something. And whoa, her skin looked incredible. so if she was really wearing her skincare, wow, we should all get it because she looks really, really, really good. Yeah, she's hot. She's sexy. There's more. There's more. You think that's the end of the story, but it's not.

1:15:37So that was so, so exciting. Then she leaves. Bye, Martha. I'm on a cloud, right? There's two people sitting next to us at a table right next to us that I can say is like five inches away. Basically one table and you're with them. Yeah. Yes. And it was a couple. They were kind of upset once they saw our lasagna come because then it reminded them that they wanted the lasagna, but they forgot to order it. OK. Oh, bummer. And I saw photos of the lasagna and it looked insane. Oh, it's so good. It's so good. Anyway, so they were very upset about that. They wanted to chat about it with us. So we did that.

1:16:21And then they left. And then a new couple comes and sits down. I'm talking to Anna so I can see a woman, you know, sitting next to Anna. And I was like, oh, my God, that's a famous person, too. I know her face, but I don't remember her. I don't know who she is. So I was looking at Anna. I was like, I think that I think she's somebody, too. So Anna went to the bathroom to to look to be clandestine. And then she texted me and she said, yes, it's Meredith Gray's stepmom from Gray's Anatomy. And I was like, oh, yes, yes, it is. It 100 percent is. And also ding ding. I mean, the Sims stacking here is so wild because Meredith Gray's stepmom died of hiccups on the show.

1:17:10Oh, my gosh. I know. Oh, my gosh. OK. And yeah, people did. She didn't have any in the restaurant. Not yet. She hadn't eaten yet. OK, so maybe people remember. Maybe they don't. But hiccups are a huge part of all of our lives. Jess has hiccups a lot. And I was watching ER and there was a storyline where someone came on and had hiccups seemingly fine and then actually had AIDS, which was horrible. Oh, wow. They went they went to that well so often. Yeah, he had A's and then I had to call Jess and say, hey, I just want to make sure you've been tested. OK, so all this is happening. Meredith Grace, stepmom, hiccups wild.

1:17:53Right. Then we leave. We go meet Emma at a hotel bar. Very cute. Swan room. Shout out. We didn't think we were going to get in because they weren't dressed appropriately, but they did let us in. And Emma, we were telling the story to her and she was like, what's her name? So I looked up her name and I was like, oh, Mayor Whittingham. She was like, yeah, Mayor Whittingham. I know that name. I look. She's married to Anthony Edwards. Dr. Green. Come on. You're you're the one you're obsessed with. Yes. Yes. Who's the star of the pit? No, that's Noah Wiley. Oh, well, that's what I thought. No, Dr. Green.

1:18:39Dr. Green, huge main character of ER. I love him. I mean, this is huge. Cross-pollinating medical shows. Yes, but the story isn't even over. Okay. I tell Anna, I was like, oh my God, he's married to Anthony. She's married to Anthony Edwards. And she was like, looked at a picture. She was like, oh yeah, that's who she was with. Come on. I was sitting next to him. I mean. Can you believe this? This is wild. I, I, I am. I'm shook. No one on earth could possibly be more excited than me right now. I've been watching ER. I've been obsessed. He was on Zodiac and I was so excited to see him pop up on Zodiac.

1:19:27Like of all the people to be sitting next to him for it to be me is wild. And then yesterday I was I've been rewatching girls the past couple of days and he's he pops up on girls. What is the world trying to tell me to get an Anthony Edwards poster? I think. Can you believe it? I can. Yeah, you can. That's wild. I'm seeing the level of excitement from you for sure. And then, and I'm applauding it and I'm grateful for it. But just imagine I was like, I saw Mike Binklestein and Phil Brackman, a motorcycle racer and a car racer. He'd be like, I can see you love those people, but I don't, I don't know who they are.

1:20:14No, that's not even close to the same. If you had been talking about Phil Brinkenstein for like months and AIDS and you've been in, and no one knows about, no one's talking about Phil Brinkenstein, except you. And then all of a sudden you see him. No, I'm telling you like, oh, what'd you do this weekend? I watched the MotoGP race. You know, I'm watching Formula One and MotoGP every single weekend. And then I see like a MotoGP rider and F1 driver having lunch. You would be like, yes, I understand for you. That must've been so thrilling, but you have no mental picture of them that you wouldn't want to see them eating.

1:20:52So I'm bridging that gap. Does that make sense? Yeah, I'm just saying I'm saying the coincidence of it all, not about the people necessarily, but the coincidence that I've been talking about AIDS and ER. No one is talking about that except me. You have to give me that. Oh, I I'm giving all of it to you. This has got to be absolutely mind blowing for you because you've been consuming it nonstop. Exactly. Yeah, for sure. Anyway, I if you think this is a cool story, you should definitely comment. I'm I'm I'm only I'm only saying I'm trying to say, yes, that's crazy. And I myself have no excitement level over seeing them because I'm not in that world.

1:21:42Sure. That makes sense. Yeah. Anyway, that was a crazy day. And I don't know. It was a blessed day. It was a blessed day. I'm supposed to know him, I guess. The world is telling me such. Yeah. Bummer you missed him. You know, it's funny because I definitely you know, obviously I was very starstruck by Martha, but I would never say anything to her. But with Anthony Edwards, I would have said, hey, I'm really sorry. As I was leaving, as I was leaving, I would say, hey, I'm really sorry to interrupt. I'm just a really huge fan. I've been I've been rewatching ER. and you're just so great. So, you know, have a good dinner.

1:22:24But I would have had to have said it. Would you have thought to buy their dinner? Wow, that's funny. I do think about that a lot with people, but I don't, that didn't cross my mind. Oh, but you're right, I didn't know yet. It wouldn't have crossed my mind with them for some reason. I think because I know they're extremely wealthy. They have that ER money. Right, right, right. And Gray's money, my God, don't forget. I bought a cute couple's meal two nights ago because I was nervous that the five kids we had brought to the restaurant may have reduced their enjoyment of their night out. Yeah. That was more of a, I guess, a payoff.

1:23:05Yeah, that did happen to Jess and I some months ago. We were at a quarter sheets, a very, very cute pizza place in Atwater. and just like stabbed this cherry tomato. And it exploded on a guy next to him. Oh, oopsies. Yeah. And he was panicking. I missed the cherry tomato incident. All I, I like put my head up to see just like, you know, panicking saying, I'm so sorry, are you okay? And he was like, what was that? You know, it was very uncomfortable. And then Jess did pay for his dinner again as a sort of a payoff. So since I saw you, my update is we got home and very rash and last minute decision.

1:24:02I think we got home on Saturday. Huey came over with the boys and we went on the boat on Sunday. And on that boat ride, Kristen and the girls were still coming home from New York. I said, you know, they're going to be home. Then we have guests coming three days after that. If we're ever going to go to Dollywood, it has to be tomorrow. So the girls get home and I'm like, OK, everyone stay packed. We're going to go to Dollywood tomorrow. We drove out there, Huey, Hayes, their two boys, Lincoln Delta, Kristen and I. And it's about three and a half hours away in the Smoky Mountains. and Monica, I'm going to say something very dangerous.

1:24:47I think it might be my new favorite amusement park. That's I don't know. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say to that. I had been told numerous times since we got here that it was super nice. And I don't know why this is very unfair. But Dolly's personal brand, obviously, is quite over the top. Big hair, loud makeup. You know, I love it. It's a whole vibe. I think I pictured the park maybe representing that. Does that make sense? Like pink everywhere. This Dollywood is so charming and cute and elegant and clean. It's like run like Disneyland. It's just spotless. The food's outrageous.

1:25:33We went to an all-you-can-eat restaurant for lunch that had unlimited fried chicken, unlimited pot roast, unlimited sausage, unlimited something. It's a lot. It's quite a meal right before you ride all these rides. Oh, it was a heavy, heavy meal. And let's add that it was 93 or 4 degrees and a bazillion percent humidity. We were hitting the park as hard as you could. Then we did that all-you-can-eat. and then we really slowed down dramatically. And then it also felt way, way hotter. And then we started saying, okay, kids, we got a hard out at this time, little negotiation. But I got to say, I was blown away.

1:26:14And they have a wooden rollercoaster there. I'm not, I don't want to get into a debate with people. I'm sure there's a faster one. I was told it was maybe the fastest wooden rollercoaster in the world. I think it went 73 or 78 miles an hour, but on a wooden rollercoaster, that feels like 130 miles an hour. I think it's the most extreme roller coaster I've ever been on. I went on it back to back and it was absolutely wild. What a ride. What a ride. Oh, that's so fun. So much fun. Oh, it was so fun. And again, this amusement park is in the Smoky Mountains. You're like walking and there's just like hills next to you with forest and it's just as enchanted as you can imagine.

1:26:58Also went to Gatlinburg in mid-July. It was mid-July. That's from Boy Named Sue. You remember that? Oh, Elvis. Gatlinburg in mid-July. I hit the bar because my throat was dry. Johnny Cash. Went to Gatlinburg. Walked around that adorable town. Went to a steakhouse with a salad bar. I've been just hitting the jackpot with salad bars. I bet I've been to six salad bars. And no Listeria yet. No, not a touch. And so much so that Aaron and I have decided in my older age, in my retirement, I'm going to write a book called The Great Salad Bars of America. And he and I are going to drive around the country and try to figure out what are the top 10 best salad bars in the country.

1:27:44Do you think anyone would buy that book? If you make it look nice, if you make it a coffee table book, yes, I can help you make it look nice. Um, can you build your perfect salad bar salad, build it right now? So iceberg, I love iceberg, just a mountain of iceberg. I like sliced mushrooms thin. I like tomato. I like bacon. I like, um, garbanzo beans. I like, um, a sesame, no, not sesame, um, sunflower seeds. Oh, wow. And then I like, you know, a blue cheese and then mix in another dressing just to give it a little more bite from that mild blue cheese to a vinegar or something. And like at Sperry's, my my current favorite salad bar is Sperry's Steakhouse in Nashville.

1:28:32And I will do three or four trips to the salad bar before the meal comes. And every single time on the fourth trip, I say I really should have just got the salad bar. I don't want my entree. But then I go back and I do the exact same thing. the next time. And we'll probably repeat that again. I wish I had the confidence because I just really want that salad bar. I can eat, you know, probably like two cubic feet of iceberg lettuce. If you can picture that. Your ideal salad bar salad is so different from mine. I haven't been to a salad bar in a while, but my old salad bar routine, when I was living in the South.

1:29:17It's going to seem very Southern. Lettuce, I guess. Sorry, I left a hard boiled egg. I just want to throw that in there in case you forgot about that topping as well. Thank you for reminding me. I would go lettuce, but not ice, like the mixed green lettuce. Yeah, mixed greens. Yeah, mixed greens. Um, tomato, shredded cheese, ham. Me too. Oh, you're adding shredded cheese. Okay. Yep. Yep. I forgot that. Yeah. But are you, which cheese do you put? Cheddar? The, the blend, ideally a Colby Jack, right? Combo. Yeah. It's like shredded. It's yellow. It's white. It goes on there. Like Mexican mix. They call it in the, when you get it at the grocery store.

1:30:09Right. But it's thicker than that. The cheese pieces are thicker than what you'd get at the grocery store Mexican cheese. Then ham. You know how they have that like ham in tiny strips matching the size of the cheese? Cubed ham. Yeah. But it's strips. You like strips of ham. Yeah, it's strips. So that goes on there. Ham shreds. Cold ham shreds. I already said tomato, I think. What about for crunch? Are you going croutons? and then ranch. That's nice. I'll dance with ranch when the time calls. Yeah. If it's a buttermilk base. Oh, I'm so sorry. Sprouts. Sprouts. Okay. Yeah, that's great. That's a great salad.

1:30:55Thank you. So yeah, Dollywood, I just really cannot celebrate it more. And then since coming home, Huey sent me an article that was recently named the best theme park in America. I think first time Disneyland's been topped. Oh, wow. Also just drove back that night. And then I started and then I launched a little theory. So it's virtually the exact same distance as it would be to Cedar Point from Detroit. And I was thinking, I wonder if there's some calculus and they know it scientifically like it's three and a half hours is like the limit, maybe that people drive to an amusement park. Like, do you think after four, it's like, fuck that or five?

1:31:38I just think it's suspicious that some of these theme parks are built perfectly within like three and a half hours of a bunch of different cities. That is interesting. But you mean like for a day trip? Like it's the max you'd go for a day trip. Yes. Like how far was it from Atlanta? Probably about three and a half hours. Yeah. Well, Nashville is four hours. so get uh so doll but we drove three and a half east i'm gonna do it right now i don't know atlanta to dollywood not four hours okay four hours and 12 minutes okay so that might be outside of people from atlanta go to dollywood uh no i mean like normally you've been but that's just because like you've been in tennessee but no you wouldn't go like for the day to dollywood right okay okay what a place though what a place you get to tour her tour bus her pre-post tour bus is there you can get on board yeah that's fun and uh i was with these two little boys and uh four and six and the four-year-old said this is where this is where dolly parton poops oh looking at the toilet yeah that's immediately where his mind went is that Yeah.

1:32:52That's where Dolly had done some number twos. Yeah. The human brain is nasty and the human butt. It's a nasty brain, the human brain. Yeah. I have to piggyback on your Gatlinburg story. OK. I've also been to Gatlinburg. My after freshman year. No, no, no. Freshman year college spring break. we went to a house in the mountains and, you know, stayed there for spring break. And it was it was the first time I ever puked from drinking was on that trip. That long. Yeah. And it it was it was so fun. We had the best time. But so the day after I puked from drinking, bad hangover day was the day we were going to Gatlinburg.

1:33:49So we went into the town and like, you know, with all the ride, like little rides and fair stuff. And it's like the most touristy town I've ever been to in my life. Maybe it's like a, if a gift shop was a town. Yeah. It's kind of like in some ways. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it had, you know, little rides and they had an alpine sled. Yes. Which you like just get on this little thing and then go down the slide, whatever. So all my friends did it. And then I did it. And I was so small that it wouldn't go like it was you didn't have enough momentum and inertia and mass to it was going so slow. there's this like in that friend group, this notorious picture of me going down the Alpine sled.

1:34:41And there's a child behind me right up against me. Like she went down and was then stuck behind me because I was crawling at a snail's pace. Oh, wow. Were you embarrassed? Yes, of course. Yeah. And hung over. Yes. Sweaty. It was probably hot. Yes. A lot going on. And how's it been back being back? How long were you gone in total? Three weeks? Almost three weeks. And it was unexpected. Uh-huh. And the East Coast summer, who knew it was going to become a big old East Coast summer. And it was great. I am really happy to be back. The weather's so nice here. And what is it? It's in the 80s, but it's like, it's so nice.

1:35:28Yeah. And it gets cool at night. Yeah, really. The weather really can't be beat. So I've just been gallivanting around here. Went to Houston's yesterday. Delicious. Played Mahjong yesterday. I won one out of four games. And yeah, it's been nice. It's been nice to relax. Oh, I've been watching a lot of TV. As I mentioned earlier, I'm rewatching Girls because I watched too much Lena's new show on Netflix. And I loved it. I loved it so much. Too much. It's kind of a you situation. You, a show on Netflix. Yes, yes. And it was so good. I cried so much. It gave me so many feelings. um meg salter who's the lead is incredible she's so funny she's so great but also will sharp who people might know from season two white lotus um he plays aubrey plaza's husband in that show he's in this and he's like a revelation he's so good and so natural and so endearing oh my god i just is he on the leaderboard for crushes he's a he's a huge yeah he's on the board also like lena is so good at writing male characters that are like a definitely flawed but you really like them and you see their heart and it's uh she's uh she's so talented she's just so talented.

1:37:18Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, so then I've been rewatching girls and that's been really fun because I realized when I first, when it first came out and I was watching it, I always had a little bit of anxiety watching. Like I didn't love it. And now that I'm rewatching it, I realize it's because it was like too close. Like they're kind of early. Yeah. Yeah. And I was flailing at that time. So it was a little like too real. And now I just think it's hilarious. Yeah. Well, I'm excited to watch the new Lena show. Yeah. I can't wait to hear your thoughts on it. Want to do some facts? Yeah, let's do it. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

1:38:09Facts for Shaq. I was trying to make it rhyme. Is this for Shaq? Yeah, it's a very quick turnaround for this. Oh, okay. So Rob took some notes. Shaxx. Some facts. He's big. It is a fact. Is that the first time you, well, you saw him on the, you didn't see him on the grid enough on? I wasn't with you there. Yeah, you were, but you weren't on the grid. I didn't go that day that you guys saw him. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. But I've never seen him in person. And it's overwhelming, right? It is like you in your head. You're like, yeah, he's so tall. He's seven feet tall, seven feet tall, whatever. It is.

1:38:43It's overwhelming. That is the weird thing about height. Yeah. Because like the difference between Jess and I is a mere two inches, three inches. But it's asymmetric. Once you go above six, two, it just starts getting exponentially more jaw dropping. I do think, I think it's after six feet. It's like each inch actually starts making a huge difference. Let's put it this way. The gap between you and I is bigger than the gap between Shaq and I. Yeah, that makes no sense. And doesn't it seem like there's nine inches or no, a foot. So there's 11 inches difference between he and I. And there's 13 inches.

1:39:22Yeah, that makes no sense. I know there's something about when you look up, something gets disproportionate. I don't know. Because you looked so short. Like a joke. Yeah, you look like a little baby man, a little girly baby man. I almost didn't want to interview him because I didn't want to look. No, you want to be small. You want to be held like a little baby. You said. He said when he walked in, because I was wearing a sleeveless shirt. He said, you've been hitting the gym. And I said, well, I knew you were going to emasculate me. So I had to come as swole as I could get. Yeah. Now, the thing that got me, because I've seen him a few times, chatted with him a few times and then been picked up by him.

1:39:58Yeah. What I had missed on those previous encounters was the size of his hands. Yeah. Oh, my Lord. I didn't notice them, which is weird for me because I love hands. You're a hands person. Yeah, I like hands. You're a hands gal. I'm a hands. Hansy. handsy you're not very handsy but you're a hands girl yeah like mixed messages um but i do think the most jaw-dropping thing is his hand size yeah it's really cool it is and he and he was fantastic he just has a very sweet soul he does he has a good he just has a nice energy fought a ton in the nba yeah yeah you've been in all kinds of scrapes he has that thing he he's sweet but he's scarier than i thought like for some reason in my idea of him is that oh he's just so playful he's just so funny and fun and playful well you weren't watching a ton of his basketball games you've been seeing his commercials right right and then i watched some of the doc and when i watched the doc i was like oh like oh he's more intense than i thought and And then when he was here at the beginning, I was I was like, I'm intimidated.

1:41:10Well, he could kill you quite easily. I know. It's so if he studied his fights and I know how to fight him. OK, I got to wrestle him because Barkley was much smaller than him. But Barkley immediately went for the knees and was able to get on top of him. I mean, that would be our that would be our Hail Mary pass. If he was trying to kill me. Then I can somehow destabilize him and get him on his back like a beetle. Sure. And then you'd run. but you might be stuck under there. The second you are out of the picture, I'll be like, I'm so sorry. I was just trying to protect her. I love you. I would have never fought you.

1:41:46He would never hurt me. No, he wouldn't. Yeah, just icon. It's just one of those times where we get to be in the presence of a true legend. There are more famous people, but I would argue there's nobody on the planet who would get recognized more. And. Even if you like pulled, how many people know Taylor Swift? Right. And the number was bigger. He would get recognized 40X of what she'd get recognized. Exactly. Yeah. And I actually do think, I mean, I'm sure everyone knows Taylor. I'm sure. But Shaq crosses all the lines. Like you can ask anyone. Like I could tell my grandma. Yep. And she would know, I think.

1:42:35I would say, actually, he's probably top five most famous people we've had on this show. Oh, for sure. Which is incredible. Again, Brad Pitt's more famous globally, I'm sure. I think. But if we followed them around throughout the course of their life, Shaq would be dealing with more attention. Yeah. I think they might be. Andy has the thing that, like, comedians have. There's all these tiers of how approachable people are. sitcom actors you've been in their living room they're funny they seem ultimately approachable yeah Leonardo DiCaprio you seem you are probably nervous to go up to him movie stars you're you're scared to go up to yeah they see but an athlete and he's in every commercial and in your living all that yeah yeah podcasters are the most approachable and as they should be yeah yeah Because they're in your life in a really, really intimate way.

1:43:30They're in your head. I do want to express gratitude that we made the Time 100. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yes, Time 100. Best podcast of all time. Of all time. And I did the most embarrassing thing, which was my sweet agent Lance sent me a thing that said, congratulations and a link. And then I went to it, Top 100. I see two dope queens. then I see another show or two then ours and I was like oh my god we're like third or fourth whatever it was I was like couldn't believe I was like this is wrong revisionist history should be number one and then I realized it was alphabetical which I actually liked I'm so glad they did it that way because yes also our publicist sent us the article and And I went to, I clicked it to read what they said.

1:44:26They said a very nice thing. Yeah, it was really nice. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I don't want to see the number. Right. Because it could immediately turn something wonderful into depressing. If you were a hundredth on the list, you'd be embarrassed. I know. And there's 8 million podcasts. Exactly. You'd still be embarrassed. The mind is not a friendly place. The mind really is not. No. And I, so then, but I just like was kind of like glancing quickly and I was like, oh, I don't see a number. So maybe they didn't do it like that. And I was glad. But I'm really great. It's such a nice honor. It is.

1:45:02Yeah. Okay. So a couple of facts, a couple shacks. A couple shacks. Okay. So it was Sebastian Maniscalco who's working at the Four Seasons and that he was a great tipper. And yet he would order a fruit plate and a coffee. Unexpected. and leave$100 tip. How many titles for Jerry West? Oh, and I need to thank Rob for this because Rob took these facts today because he's in a foreign space. He's operating gear that's not ours. Yes. And he was fact checking. He had to fact check because we just did the episode. Rob's on a run. Okay, Jerry West, whose silhouette is used in the NBA logo, won the 1972 NBA championship with the Lakers as a player and eight additional titles as an executive with the Lakers and Golden State Warriors.

1:45:48So I was wrong. I'm glad. I'm glad I was wrong. And he was right. He was dead right. Couldn't be happier to be wrong about that. Okay. The poster for justification for higher education is really funny. It's a huge mansion. It's like Seaside. It looks like maybe Malibu or something. It's Seaside, yes. It does look like it's California. There's like a fancy car in the driveway. Let's see if I got the cars right. Turn it around so I can see. Because I said it was a land. I'm not going to look. I said it was a Lamborghini, a Ferrari, and a Porsche 911. Countach. And I think the Ferrari was a 308. Okay.

1:46:26You're going to have to tell me if that's right. I have no idea. Okay. This has been updated. This is not the one we grew up with. Oh, no. Because the Z8 didn't even come out until 2006 or something. Oh. Can I see if I can find it? I just want to see. Now I'm dying to know if I'm right. Here it is. Okay. Well, I'm completely wrong. Oh, I got a 308. There's a three. There's a Ferrari 308. But then the Porsche is a 928. That's the risky business Porsche. Okay, but still a Porsche. Yeah. A Corvette? Congrats, Corvette. I didn't know you made it in there. Convertible M3 and then a big Benz. So I didn't do so well.

1:47:01Less than half. Yeah. They should have put a Lamborghini Countach. Okay. How are you knowing it? There's no... Oh, the Mercedes, I guess, has a logo. Barely. The way this is painted out, like you can't really see. Well, they've probably, well, they were definitely in breach of trademark. So yes, they've wiped out all the lettering on the back of these cars. Yeah, and you can still tell what they are. Yeah, and that Benz is an SL500, I think. Is the Benz the third one? Yes. Okay. And then to the right of that is an 86 convertible Corvette. Okay. And then I believe an M3 BMW convertible. And you can kind of maybe see the logo on the M3, the little circle by the above the lights.

1:47:52I don't even know what an M3 is. It's a BMW. Oh. What do I know about?

1:48:03The gymnastics. Yes. Thank you, Rob. Good job, Rob. That was nice, Rob. That's weird that you just brought that up. We were just talking about that in Nashville. I was telling Eric and I was able to say the names of the Magnificent Seven, 1996. Okay. I got to just show up. It's not as good. I can't be as fast. Okay. Dominique Mochiano, Dominique Dawes, Shannon Miller, Amy Chow, Amanda Borden, J.C. Phelps. Gigi Rodriguez? No, don't do that. Did I already say Dominique Dawes? Yeah, you said two Dominiques. Yeah, there were two Dominiques, Shannon. Oh, Carrie Struck. How could I forget? The number one.

1:48:49I did it. Great job. Thank you. Coached by Bella Lugosi. What's his name? No, Bella Carolli. And Marta Carolli is the wife. See, I know. Okay, I know. Yeah, you're an expert. They ended up pretty much getting canceled. They did? Yeah. Because? Sexual impropriety or? Just too hard on them, But also they they were close with what's his name? Nassar. Yeah. Like he kind of worked for them ish. Like, you know, scary. OK. Although I don't want to do that big of an ish because what I what I don't like is when someone is found guilty of some impropriety. And then all of a sudden, everyone around them was supposed to know and they're in trouble and they hate those people and all that.

1:49:38Like the whole guilty by association thing, I don't love. I agree. I don't love that. I do think, I mean, on all these docs and stuff, like they were just really, for one, they were just really, really, really hard on the girls in a way that was seemingly very inappropriate. Ding, ding, ding. Shaq. Shaq. Because they were successful, right? They were successful. But they came, you know, they came from Romania. Yeah. They coached Nadia. Comaneci. Yeah, exactly. Good job. Thank you. Do you want to marry the retin? I love Mary Lou. She was in a ding, ding, ding, 1984 Corvette red in the McDonald's ad.

1:50:18And on the back, the license plate said Mary Lou. The way all this is tying together. Maybe I died in that airplane disaster. Mary Lou, I think also may be coached by them. And so they had this reputation, but I think it was too much. Although a great counter to this is, and this is on topic, all these players get all this credit for these championships, Jordan, so-and-so. The real champion of all time is Phil Jackson. I know. He has minimally nine between those two teams. I don't know if he has more. Yep. And he was not a blowhard yeller. He is a Buddhist. He was given. He gave Shaq a Nietzsche book to read.

1:51:06Yeah, I know. I love that. I love that. 13. 13. He was a player 11. Oh, my God. When I was watching the Shaq doc and we got to the point of Phil Jackson, which I don't know much about. I mean, I know of him, but I was like from the world. Well, and. Oh, last day. Last hands. Yeah. But I was like, okay, this runs the risk of sounding like so egotistical. And I don't, I don't mean it like this. But I was like, I think, I think I, in this life, am not a Shaq or a Jordan or a Kobe. I feel like I'm more of a Phil Jackson. Like I, I, I'm a part of big things and I think I'm an important, a very important part of big things.

1:52:08Yes, but I'm not at the center and I'm kind of guiding it sort of in the back. I don't identify with any of them. Okay. Like I've just not been a big winner. Sure. I just don't. What do you mean? You're a winner now. Now in this space. Yeah. And so if I had to pick, it would probably be Shaquille because he tried hard, but he didn't try as hard as Kobe or like Phil said in the doc. Shaq was great, but he should have won 10. I don't have that opinion, but but and and and I'm more like Shaq, like four is awesome. It's more than I intended. Yep, totally. And I don't want to be miserable for any goal.

1:52:55I don't have that constitution. I'm not that hard of a worker. Yeah. Or I'm not that. Yeah. I just don't have the desire to suffer for something. Yeah. As much. I can see that about you. If I'm not him, I don't know enough about basketball players, but who's a basketball player? where, oh, I guess Shaq was not supposed to be good, and then he was good. I kind of connect with that type of thing, but I am there to win and not have fun and suffer, and I'll do, yeah. Victory is the most important. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't have that. Yeah. I have, like, the in-the-moment competitive nature, where it's like if I'm on a motorcycle track or I'm in a corner in a car, I'll go for it.

1:53:42I don't want to be bested in that moment. Yeah, because you're competitive. What's that? You're competitive. I'm very competitive. Yeah. But I'm going out in Denver if we're playing there the night before. Right. I'm going to have fun. I'm going to stay out late. Yeah. I'm going to wake up late. I'm going to go to the game and do the best I can. I know my natural abilities pull me through. But I'm not. No, I don't. I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true because you here in this space and podcasting, if we have a big interview or something the next day, you're not like I'm going out all night long.

1:54:20But I'm also 50. Yeah. Right. So, yeah, yesterday I was in New York all day long. I need to do one thing other than research shack all day. Yeah, exactly. That part's true. But again, I'm 50. Yeah. You mean when you were younger? When I was, yeah. And these dudes are all 20 year olds. You know, it's ironic. I feel like I'm, it's swapping. You're learning to have more fun and be looser. I'm learning to be, I'm learning that I can do both. That you don't have to be this solo mission. Stranglehold everything. Exactly. Yeah. Well, it's like learning. Well, I think that's a crude through experience.

1:55:01You do start to rely on yourself a little bit more. You have more confidence in yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what's funny is both things are happening. Like, I'm sure the interview would have been just as good if I just showed up. Like, I probably know enough about Shaq to have gotten through it. And then in some way, it might have been a different version of it. Yeah. But I just wanted to have all the entire story. I also do. I think part of what this show benefits from is your research like you. Not everyone. I mean, I think a lot of people do research, but you're so smart that I feel like you're giving something.

1:55:45Your research is benefiting you and you're processing it in a way that a lot of other people can't do. And so you just showing up would be great, but it wouldn't be its highest potential without you applying your brain to the research. Yeah, what happens in the research is a red herring. Yeah. The research is during the research, I go, oh, wow, he has the same relationship with his mom as I do. Right, right. it's not really about when he got to the NBA or what round he got drafted, but just like threw up. And then it's like, Oh wow. Now here's something completely different between he and I, he really responds to a very authoritative presence in his life.

1:56:23And I don't at all. I'm bad at that. So those things, the research is like, I don't know how to get to the real thing I care about without it. I think you are able to do a weaving. I mean, that's like, I don't do research. So I'm sitting there doing, I think what maybe a lot of other people do, which is real time curiosity, which I'm glad we have that. But I think we need, I think the show is good because there's some structure and yeah. Well, thank you. You're welcome. Okay. Titles after Kobe and Shaq. Okay. So Shaq won NBA championship without Kobe 2006 Kobe two championships without Shaq 2009 2010 and then together they had three yeah that's nice they could have gotten seven or eight they were so fucking good that's so sad what's interesting is the research took me down all these Kobe rabbit holes I just couldn't kind of resist it was like I would learn that Shaq got four and they're like how many did Kobe get did he I know Jordan gets six did Jordan get six I'm just starting looking up all these other things and then I found myself in this rabbit hole of Kobe.

1:57:43He fucking scored 81 points in a game. Like the only, Will Chamberlain scored 100, but he was literally a foot taller than everyone back then. He was so much stronger. Yeah. He scored 81 in multiple games over 60 plus. And I mean. Unbelievable. Okay. Oh, the businesses that Shaq owns. Okay. Big Chicken, Papa John's. He owns locations. And he was a brand ambassador of Pop John's. Krispy Kreme, five guys. In Atlanta. 24 Hour Fitness. Oh, he owns some of those. 40 of them, I think. 40 in the Atlanta area. Authentic Brands Group. JCPenney Forever 21 Reebok. And 150 car washes. Wow. He has a ridiculous story.

1:58:33I don't know where I heard it. I've watched every doc and every podcast he's been in the last five years, but he, he owned all these car washes and his business manager called him and said, we're missing$250 ,000. Like we're light on the P and L statement. Like we're, someone is embezzled and he's like, oh no, I have all the quarters in my vault. He would go collect all the quarters and like pillowcases and stuff and just bring them to his house and put them in his safe. and he had$250 ,000 in quarters that were just sitting there. In quarters. And they're like, okay, well, that's where the money's at.

1:59:09Oh, my God. What an interesting man. That's one million quarters. I just did the math. Four times two. Good and fast math. Really easy. Fast math. Well, I really, really enjoyed that. Me too. I'm glad we got to do it. Me too. I'm glad your plane didn't crash and we got to do it. Me too. All blessings to Shaq. What a sweetie pie. Yeah. That's it. All right. Okay, love you. Love you. Thank you.

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