Sterling K. Brown

11:05Sterling K. Brown:Thanks for code switching for us. and including diabetes. I'm here. I'm here. Brown serves everybody. Is that supposed to like designate between type one and type two? Or is that just, no, that's just something you say. There's only sugar diabetes. There's only sugar diabetes. Yeah, there's no one or two. There's no salt diabetes. No savory diabetes. I've got cinnamon diabetes.

11:23Dax Shepard:I knew he was young when he passed. And then when I hit 45, I was like, oh man, I'm just getting started. I feel like life has so much more in front of me. Here's the other interesting thing. My brother likes to tell me this all the time because my brother's 14 years older than me, which makes Armin 63 now. He'll turn 64. Brown's got 50 in a couple of months, right? He said, you know, no men in our family, on my mother's side or my dad's side, have lived past 65. Black men have the lowest life expectancy in these United States, et cetera. Notorious for not going to the doctor, taking care of themselves.

11:58Dax Shepard:So I'm thankful to have a woman in my life by the name of Ryan Michelle Bathay, who refuses to let me be dumb.

12:05Sterling K. Brown:Yep.

12:05Dax Shepard:You need to get that checked out. Ah, something hurts. Going back to high school football, I look at my white friends. I was like, man, why are you all black and blue, dude? What's that bruise? He's like, yeah, I don't know. And they'd be like, are you okay? I'm like, yeah, I'm fine. Like something feels weird. I'm chilling. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I go to the doctor. I try to take care of myself. You check out the prostate, you know, prostate exams and all these sorts of things. Because I'm determined not to be a statistic. Or just because something has been the case for everybody else doesn't mean that it has to be the case for you.

12:33Sterling K. Brown:You have a good stubbornness. I do have a good stubbornness. Yeah, it can be helpful sometimes. That sounds like the story of your whole life. Just don't place me in this box. I'm doing something else.

12:42Dax Shepard:Thank you, Lily Pat. Someone else did a little research.

12:47Sterling K. Brown:How close were you with your dad before he died?

12:50Dax Shepard:That's my dude.

12:50Sterling K. Brown:Yeah, you guys had a great relationship.

12:53Dax Shepard:Dude, the best. A lot of folks, our generation, that's not always the case. There can be some sort of distance or whatnot. Men function as providers primarily and not necessarily as nurturers. not sterling brown man this dude loved me unequivocally well look how fucking lovable you are well i appreciate that but like he was that lovable too yeah we would sit up friday night and watch cinemax yeah like friday after dark like don't tell your mama we watch yeah you're gonna see some titties but we're not gonna talk about you and me i appreciate your appreciation for the word. I feel like it's gone by the wayside.

13:35Dax Shepard:Thank you for bringing it back. It's sweet. It is sweet. It's soft.

13:40Sterling K. Brown:There's something soft about it. My father too. On my weekends with him. You can watch whatever the hell you wanted.

13:45Dax Shepard:And he would cry. Like we would watch Pritzy's Honor and he'd be freaked out because he thought Pritzy just got shot and all this type of stuff. And was he affectionate? He refused to have me not be affectionate.

13:55Sterling K. Brown:I remember one time

13:56Dax Shepard:he's like, all right man, give your daddy a kiss because we would kiss. And I go, okay dad. I hit him with the cheek. Like, are you too old to kiss your dad? I'm like, no. And so now I got a 10 and a 14-year-old. And I do the same thing.

14:08Sterling K. Brown:Aren't you so glad he made you? Especially now, having lost him.

14:12Dax Shepard:I have a friend of mine whose dad passed away a couple years ago. Lived into his 80s. And he said to me, he goes, dude, I had my dad my whole life. I have no idea what he thought about me. That would be tough. Yeah. I think the interesting thing is everybody's doing the best they know how to until they know how to do better. And it often takes us having kids sometimes in order to realize like, oh, you're just trying to figure this shit out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, here's a question for you. And I wanted to ask you and Belle this at one point in time. I find it to be the most interesting thing, and I want to give the flip to it.

14:42Dax Shepard:The way that you guys have your children and share your family on social media, I have the utmost of respect for it, right? And that we don't. And that you don't. Okay, great. I was talking to Belle one time, and she was watching season one of Paradise. And she FaceTimed me. And then I saw your daughters and I was like, oh, my God. They're real.

15:01Sterling K. Brown:They're real. They have real faces and everything. It's amazing.

15:04Dax Shepard:But my question to you is talk to me about the thought process in terms of their safety, their anonymity and how you reach that place. Because I have a very specific take on it as well. First and foremost, I don't care what anyone does.

15:18Sterling K. Brown:I literally when I see other people, that's awesome. That's what they feel comfortable with. My thing is, number one is like safety. I don't want you to know what my daughters look like. Like you can see them on the sidewalk. You know a lot about me and them. You could act as if you know us. Hey, Delta, I just was with your dad. That could be tricky for an eight-year-old to navigate. Someone who knows a lot about me easily or mom. Two, I've already put them in this crazy position where when they go out to eat with their family, they're going to watch their mom and dad take pictures with people.

15:45Sterling K. Brown:That's unfair in my opinion, but it came with a lot of great stuff. So I think it's a wash, but I don't want them to be famous. I want them to be anonymous and make mistakes and not be in tabloids because they were at a nightclub and everyone knows. I'm like, I want them to be able to fuck up and be completely anonymous. Yeah, man. That's my goal. It's so funny. I must tell you this right now. Go ahead. I just left. I raced here from having talked to my daughter's fifth grade classroom. The teacher asked me, Miss Brown, to come in and talk about Malala because they're studying her. And we interviewed her.

16:16Sterling K. Brown:And I said, OK. And she said, you know, you have an hour and a half. I said, Miss Brown, I got to get out. Dude, I name dropped you intentionally. manipulatively. I said, okay, but I got to get out at 12 because I'm interviewing Sterling K. Full name, Sterling K. Brown at 1230. And she went, oh, okay. Oh, you're interviewing. Oh, I said, go ahead, let it rip. Let it rip. I was on the phone with her. She said, well, I'm married. I'm married. I said, but did you see Paradise? She said, I watched Paradise. And I said, and did you see the buns? And she said, I saw the buns. So I completely used you as my easiest excuse to get out of class.

16:50Sterling K. Brown:But at any rate, one of the questions was, do you let Delta be on the podcast? And I'm like, yes, when it was audio only, she would, she would pop in and it was so fun. And the listeners loved it. We loved it. I said, but once we went to video, I don't, and I had weirdly just explained this to her whole class. Yeah, man. Anyways, but yeah, tell me how you.

17:05Dax Shepard:So this is interesting because I agree and understand exactly what you're saying. And it's interesting because you have two girls. I have two boys. Your children are obviously white. My children are black. I feel like the more I put them on social, the safer they are.

17:21Sterling K. Brown:Oh, that's interesting. Sure. A hundred percent. Sure, sure. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

17:25Dax Shepard:I was like, any proximity that black boys can have to some sort of celebrity or access or whatnot. Status, leverage. I'm like, I'm trying to make sure that they make it home. That's really it. Isn't that incredibly interesting? It really is. It fascinates. And I remember I was going to ask Kristen about this one time. I was like, oh no, I'm coming to the cast. I can just talk to you about it. Yeah.

17:44Sterling K. Brown:It's so different.

17:45Dax Shepard:Yeah. That makes a ton of sense. But anonymity is one of those things too, because here's another one. You just mentioned something. If I'm out with Ryan and the boys, we have a policy of no pictures. And the policy is because they deserve to have a regular night out. Yeah, it's their time. And because Ryan and I have a certain amount of spotlight or whatnot, doesn't mean that they should receive less of us, right? So if we go to an event where you specifically know you're taking pictures and everything, that's all another thing. If I'm at a soccer game, which I'll be going to right after this.

18:17Sterling K. Brown:I thought that was so cute.

18:18Dax Shepard:If I'm at anything, I'd be like, hey, guys, right now I'm just a dad. but I appreciate the love.

18:23Sterling K. Brown:Yeah.

18:23Dax Shepard:You know what I'm saying? And most people are so sweet and so cool. And every once in a while, one out of a thousand, you'd be like, so you're not going to take the picture? And you'd be like, not right now. I'm not even trying to be mean about it.

18:32Sterling K. Brown:Oh my God. I'm going to be thinking about that for so long. That just subtle difference between two people who are very similar. In the same situation. In the exact same situation in so many ways, except in one very specific way and how that manifests is so wild. Well, and heartbreaking, actually. So illuminating. Yeah. So when dad died at 10. Yes, sir. How fucked up did you get over that?

18:56Dax Shepard:That's a good question. It took a lot of processing because raised Christian and really with the belief that the hereafter is a better thing. There's something better waiting for him. He had a minute of suffering. And I remember the day he passed away. This is February 5th, 1987. I wake up that morning and my mom is in the kitchen and she's on the phone with paramedics, 911. And she says, go to the bedroom and put some clothes on your dad. And I was like, put some clothes on your dad. I'm 10. What are we doing? That's his job. I don't need to see the monster out. So he's laid up buck naked. He's wearing bikini drawers, and I'm trying to raise up over his feet.

19:38Dax Shepard:And he could tell how uncomfortable I was. He was probably just as uncomfortable. He's like, go get your mom. And he's stiff. He can't move. So I go back to the kitchen. I said, he asked for you. And she's like, boy, didn't I tell you to? You know what I'm saying? And she's fraught trying to get stuff done. So she goes, puts clothes on him. And the last time I saw him, I got a split level house. So you come in the front door, you can go upstairs or downstairs. The paramedics come in. They got the gurney. They get my dad out of the bedroom and they're taking him down the steps. And as they're taking him down the steps, my man just winks at me real quick.

20:08Dax Shepard:Like one wink. And that was the last time I ever saw him. Because they didn't want me to go to the hospital. They thought it might be too much. And for the next few weeks, people are bringing food. And, you know, I'm so sorry. And I think when you're 10, what you want is to get back to some sense of normalcy as quickly as possible. It's weird to have people cry over you or extend too much because I think also being a boy slash now you have to be a man. There's this idea that I got to keep it together. I had never seen my mom cry until then. That's the first time I saw Arlene lose it. And I was like, well, everybody can't lose it.

20:43Dax Shepard:That was one of the predominant thoughts in my head. It was like, no, everybody can't lose it. more than anything was sort of figuring out if he is in a better place, how much of a right do I have to miss him? Oh, yeah, that's confusing. Yeah, that's complicated. I think I just said that for the first time. Like if this is real, why are we all? Yeah, but he's in heaven. Like everybody should be good about it. And I'll be rejoined. We'll all be rejoined. And I don't negate that. I believe in life after life, et cetera. And I don't know if it's pearly gates and everything, but I do believe that energy isn't created or destroyed.

21:15Dax Shepard:It just sort of transmutes and become something else. At age 15, almost 16, I think, sophomore year of high school, I had this weird feeling of just, man, I haven't heard my dad's name in the longest time. I one time had like a lucid dream where I dreamt he had lived this whole life. Like an episode of Star Trek where I went, what's the place in Star Trek where you can like live out on next generation? Anyway. You really did go to Stanford. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. We're not nerdy enough. The holodeck. I had this whole lucid dream about my dad lived this whole life and I got a chance to see his grandchildren.

21:52Dax Shepard:And he like passed away in his 80s and everything like that. And I woke up and I was astonished that it was a dream. Yeah. And that was close to when I was like, man, I haven't heard Sterling Brown's name in a long time. I was like, wait a minute. That's my name, too.

22:07Sterling K. Brown:Exactly.

22:07Dax Shepard:Because you had been going by. Kelby. Kelby. Kelby the first 16 years. Sterling was too many letters. Sterling was too many letters. according to mom that is what she said it's like sterling is eight letters kelby is five letters

22:17Sterling K. Brown:hey man i'm gonna shake you really do the damn thing i want to point something out yeah my dream in life would be if i can be dying and look at my girls yeah that'll be the hell mary touchdown the fact that your dad was dying and his 10 year old little boy was trying to put clothes on him because he loved them what a fucking gift you gave him i mean that is the dream departure

22:48Dax Shepard:yeah man yeah that's fucking mega thank you man yeah i appreciate that he did a good job he made

22:55Sterling K. Brown:a son that was able to show up in that moment yeah he did his work he was good yeah that's fucking rad very special thank you how did arlene support y 'all once he was out of the picture

23:06Dax Shepard:It's a great question. Because mom's shortly retired afterwards. You have to understand her thinking. It contributes a lot to my thinking, although I think I've sort of shifted it a little bit. Mom was a born-again Christian at age 40. I was born when she was 34. So from the time that I was six on, she would sort of make me speak in tongues with her for like 15 minutes a day. That's wild. Yay. And I'd be like, I'm not sure what I'm saying. Now I'm talking to God.

23:35Sterling K. Brown:It's great acting training, actually. They make you do shit like that in acting school. Did you believe it when you were doing it?

23:41Dax Shepard:So this is the thing, right? I think about this. And I remember I was doing Hamlet one time and playing Claudius. And he says, he has this line, he goes, my words fly up, my thoughts remain below, words without thoughts never to heaven go. And so what it made me think is whatever these utterances that are coming out of my mouth, what is in my heart is what is really most important. So I would sort of pick a point of focus. And it's basically just meditation with utterance. And once you pick that point of focus and what it is that you wish to put out into the world, how you wish to show up so that you're responsive and not reactive, like it just sort of became my meditation practice.

24:17Dax Shepard:And then it did feel very connected. At first, when I thought it was about the words, then it was just like, well, I don't know what's happening. But then it was about what's happening here and what's happening here.

24:25Sterling K. Brown:Yeah, that is very acting. Yeah, it is. Think of all those insane things they make you do. Even also just getting over self-consciousness. Like committing to speaking in tongues is a leap of faith. It is. You're like, here we go.

24:36Dax Shepard:I'm going to start talking gibberish. Let's see if mom calls bullshit. She would bring other boys from the neighborhood and like try to make them speak in tongues with me. And I was like, this is my favorite because I know what's happening and I know what's going on inside these Negroes' minds as well. And Arlene is just like, don't you feel good? And they're like, yes, ma 'am. Whatever you say.

24:55Sterling K. Brown:Oh my God. Oh, that's great. Wow.

24:58Dax Shepard:So she retired shortly after because she believed the Holy Spirit, God, would find her needs. So there's Social Security from dad's passing. There's Social Security for her. Mine cuts off at 18 or something like that. But we just really lived beneath our means. My brother came back and helped for a little bit. My sister came back and helped because she's 12 years older. The slaughters. They showed up. The slaughters show up. Everybody did their part. This is how tight things were. My mom's senior year of high school, she didn't want me to have senioritis. She wanted me to like finish strong. Because, you know, second semester, I was like, I got it in school.

25:32Dax Shepard:What are we doing right now? She's like, if you get straight A's, second semester, I give you$1 ,000. I was like, say less, homie. I got you. I bust out these A's or whatnot. Arlene Brown is a woman of her word. Lays that$1 ,000 on your boy, right? About a week later or so, she goes, listen to me. It's going to last you four days in the Bay Area. You got this cash and you totally earned it. But mommy has some bills that I have to take care of. Could I borrow some money from you? I said, you know what, Ma, just take it. And she said, that's not what I said. No, no, no, no, no. Take it. It's all good.

26:03Dax Shepard:That moment when I went to school, because Stanford was wild, was awesome. My wife and I have this conversation. We thought everybody was going to be like us, meaning the black people at Stanford. And by us, I mean, okay, I filled out this FAFSA. I ain't got a whole lot of income to report. Help a brother out, Mr. Clinton, right? My wife... Her dad was like a chief informations officer for different Fortune 500 companies. They wound up retiring to North Carolina and building a 14 ,000 square foot home. Oh, my goodness. Okay. So we're from the opposite side of the tracks. So she thought everybody was going to be bougie.

26:40Dax Shepard:And I thought everybody was going to be like hustless. And then we wound up hooking up with each other. It was a moment of like, I don't have the same thing to fall back on that other people do. So whatever it is I'm going to do, know, Brown, that you're going to have to figure it out.

26:56Sterling K. Brown:Nothing's getting handed to me.

26:57Dax Shepard:Nothing's getting handed. Okay, but before we commit to Stanford,

27:00Sterling K. Brown:you also got recruited a little bit to play college football?

27:03Dax Shepard:I recruited to a couple of D3 schools. Claremont McKenna out here. I wanted some place that was academically challenging, and I liked the Claremont Colleges, Pomona, and all that type of stuff. But then it felt like a little bit too much like my high school, and I think I wanted something a little bit different. So it wasn't that tempting to try to pursue that? Not enough for another four years of being a raisin in the sun. Do you know what I'm saying? Like I told my college counselor, I said, I either want sunshine because I'm from St. Louis and it gets cold or I want black people.

27:32Sterling K. Brown:Yeah.

27:32Dax Shepard:And I wound up getting both of them. But the thing about Stanford is they show up spring quarter and it's like gorgeous. But the Bay, it gets cold. It gets real chilly. They bring you like in May, June. You're like, oh, this is damp. It's just damp, right? For half the year, it's just your rat. I thought I was supposed to be like sunny all the time.

27:52Sterling K. Brown:Okay, so Stanford, you go for business and economics. Yeah. And then you do an internship at the Fed. I'm fascinated way more than the acting. You interned at the Federal Reserve. Where did you go for this internship?

28:05Dax Shepard:That's the thing. I was hoping to work with the economists and everything, but I was really in the human resources department and it was not at all what I wanted to be doing. I'd worked at Ralston Purina before that. I was in an internship program called Inroads for minority students who wanted to do business and industry. So it was that sort of track. And then anytime I did anything with any of these companies, I was like, this is so boring. Yeah. There's no room for real creativity. And I was a math nerd. I did BC Calculus, AP Econ, et cetera. And I wasn't really even getting a chance to really use those skills.

28:38Dax Shepard:They didn't have a perfect internship for me. It felt like Arlene Brown deserved an ROI on her investment. And so the easiest way is to do something that is safe. But then as you get a little bit older, you realize you can be unhappy doing something that you don't want to do. So why not try and do something that actually excites you? Sure. And if you fail at that, then you can at least say like, well, at least I tried to do something that like lights me up on the inside instead of what people think you should do.

29:10Sterling K. Brown:Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking the pockets of your jeans before doing laundry? Classic oversight. That mystery clunking in the dryer? Yeah, that was your lip balm's final moments. And somehow, there's always one random receipt in there to dissolve into confetti. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions, and availability.

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30:34Sterling K. Brown:Okay, now when I'm researching people, generally what I get fascinated in is, A, all the things that overlap that I can relate to. And then the things that I can't relate to become fascinations for me. So you meet Ryan, freshman year. Yeah. You've now been with her for 31 years.

30:52Dax Shepard:Well, we've known each other for 31 years. Oh, okay. As Shakespeare says, the course of true love did never run smooth. So there was together apart, together apart, together.

31:01Sterling K. Brown:Because I don't know about you. I've not met a lot of kids, males from divorce, and in your case through death, that don't have this where when your dad's not there, you do become by proxy partner. And you feel the sense of that responsibility. And it's a little bit burdensome. Yeah. To your mother. To your mother. You kind of grow up in a relationship that is a little more complex. You know you're a little more responsible for her emotional state than otherwise. than the dad would be normally handling. So for me, it was like I would fall in love, and I really loved a lot of people, but I just was like, I can't take on another one of these.

31:41Sterling K. Brown:I'm afraid. I just got out of this. I just got out of an 18-year relationship is a little bit what I felt like. So I'm kind of shocked by that. Commitment-wise, you're like, I don't want to commit. Yeah, I'm just a little afraid. In fact, the second I realized, I love the shit out of this girl. I could probably be with her forever. I'm like, fuck, I already had that,

31:59Dax Shepard:And I just got out of that. Our relationship was slash is great. So my brother is sort of like the dude who takes on man of the house type stuff. But like my mom and I have this sort of deep friendship where we could talk about anything. Same, same, same. Right. She's like, you know, when I was out on the road with different bands, the way I kept myself safe, I kept my pistol in my purse. I was like, okay.

32:22Sterling K. Brown:Before the Lord entered her. Yeah, yeah. Before the Lord entered her. No tongues yet.

32:27Dax Shepard:My mom was the born-again Christian who, before that, was like, what's your sign? And, like, we'll give you, like, your horoscope sort of thing. So she had both things. But I didn't date a lot. I think I was very shy. Began drinking, going into freshman year of high school specifically for liquid courage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I could talk to anybody for anything, but as soon as I'm attracted to you, it's, like, high. It's terrible. It's unimaginable, isn't it? I know, you're so goddamn charismatic. I would sweat. Like, it was awful. Wow. Right. Sex. 21. My goodness. So why? Well, because Ryan Michelle, I mean, not Ryan Michelle, Arlene.

33:04Dax Shepard:That's Freudian. Arlene would often tell me as a born again Christian, she'd be walking around and she'd tell me like all the joys of sex and how you don't be just that man that just does little pumps and everything. You got to do this and everything. Worship your lady. Then she'd go, but you know, fornication's a sin. And I was like, yes, ma 'am. I know. And I remember one time, One of her best friends had daughters and one daughter had body. And I remember thinking to myself and she would flirt with me. And I'd hear in my mom's head, fornication is a sin. And it's kind of saved me because old girl wound up having like three kids before high school was done.

33:38Dax Shepard:It wasn't my trajectory. Her trajectory was hers. It wasn't my trajectory. But as I look back on it, I wish so much of my decision making wasn't based in fear. Right. I don't mind holding out for someone that I have real feelings for because I do think that sex is as emotional or should be in its best form, emotional and physically gratifying. There should be some sort of soul connection. I've had sex where it's just enjoyable for enjoy. It's like pizza. It's all good. Right. But there's spectacular pizza. There's levels to this game. You know what I'm saying? And so as I raise these boys, I say, I want you to have life experience.

34:15Dax Shepard:I want you to enjoy yourself. I'm not hanging the same thing that was hung over my head in terms of fornication being a sin. I want you to be respectful. I want to make sure that you're looking out for your partner the same way that you hope that she's looking out for you. And that hopefully you have genuine feelings for this person, especially the first time. I hope that the first time is something you look back on and is...

34:31Sterling K. Brown:Positive feelings. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the commitment, did you suffer at all in the beginning?

34:37Dax Shepard:So once Ryan, Michelle, and I sort of really got in there, there is a strange tug of war, bro. I don't know if Belle and your mom experiences or if they were just like peas in a pod. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

34:50Sterling K. Brown:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to hear more about more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

34:54Dax Shepard:Go ahead. You were young. Yeah, you're her little boy. And now you're somebody else's man. And nobody can be good enough for you. Nobody. I think my mom fought the good fight.

35:04Sterling K. Brown:I think she smelled this is going to be the woman that takes.

35:08Dax Shepard:She kept a relationship with Ryan even once we broke up. They would talk to each other on the phone. I'd be like, mama, why are you talking to her? We done moved over here now. We're on to this one. We sizzling. Bacon is over there. We done moved over. But like they kept the relationship going. And then when we got back together, my mom was like, I knew. And she probably did immediately.

35:28Sterling K. Brown:Yeah, yeah, yeah. She rooted for her. What's the saying? It's like a son is a son until he takes a wife. A daughter is a daughter for life. This is an old-fashioned saying.

35:37Dax Shepard:It is. But my wife feels that. Because you have daughters and you know you're going to be taken care of. These dudes are gone. I'm figuring out how to take care of myself.

35:46Sterling K. Brown:My best friend in L.A., I always talk with him because he's got two boys. I'm like, dude, you better stay healthy. Like, I can get as sick as I want. These girls are going to take care of their dad.

35:53Dax Shepard:This is why we drink the water. Yeah, your dudes are going to fucking try.

35:57Sterling K. Brown:I'll buy a couple times and wave. They're going to stick around.

36:00Dax Shepard:My wife, like, she grieves it a little bit. She says, like, when the boys have kids, she's not going to be invited into the room. Her mom is going to be invited into the room. A hundred percent. You know what I'm saying?

36:10Sterling K. Brown:Although you might raise the boys that break all this and I might raise the girls that ditch their father. Maybe.

36:15Dax Shepard:Again, to what you said earlier, I don't believe in trying to go along with what's been. It doesn't necessarily have to apply to me.

36:23Sterling K. Brown:You can create your own situation. You can create your own situation.

36:26Dax Shepard:My daughters-in-law, if I wind up having daughters-in-law, they may not marry. They may do something completely different. If I have them, they're going to love me. Yeah, exactly. You're going to make sure. My daughter's going to get an invitation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

36:39Sterling K. Brown:My parents are dealing with this right now, too, because my brother's girlfriend is pregnant.

36:44Dax Shepard:OK.

36:45Sterling K. Brown:And culturally, Indian parents are in there. Totally. They're there for months. Yeah. Once the baby's born. Yeah. My brother's girlfriend is not Indian. And so I can tell from my mom, she's not Indian and it's her son. It's not me. Totally. And I did not provide that for them. So I can see she wants so bad. And they're letting her. but it's a tricky situation for her because she's like yeah can i be in there like i want to be in there yeah that's my expectation but it's different when it's your son very different it's weird it

37:16Dax Shepard:shouldn't be though no tune it shouldn't be but it is yeah okay that doesn't work out it's boring

37:23Sterling K. Brown:we commit to acting then we go to nyu to tish right for graduate school for acting now my curiosity there is you and bella are there at the exact same time of course her undergrad undergrad Right. But I think the same year, maybe 98. Yeah.

37:36Dax Shepard:98 to 01. Did she graduate 02? She didn't graduate. She didn't graduate. She was on Broadway before she graduated. Yeah.

37:41Sterling K. Brown:She's like, can't stick around. She's a wunderkind. She's ridiculous. She sure is. We have much different trajectories. That's why we're a good team. Why do graduate school? Were you a little bit afraid to jump right in and thought, you know what, let me get to the place and have a little bit of a structure? Yeah. I felt raw. And your pattern had been, when I tell you, you got to do X, Y, and Z, you do X, Y, and Z.

38:04Dax Shepard:And you're on a sports team. Somebody said you should think about grad school because I think that you have a lot of talent. There's more potential that can be honed and have like a bag of skills that you can take out into the world and sort of make yourself as hireable as possible because it's such a transient occupation to begin with. But if you can go on stage, if you can do voiceover, if you can sing a little bit, then it gives you that many more tools that are marketable and can gift you a job.

38:30Sterling K. Brown:I love that you're still playing it safe as you can within this thing that is basically a Hail Mary pass. It's a crash. Yeah, totally. Okay, so you graduate from there in I guess 2000 with your MFA? 2001. 2001. Yep. And the first big thing

38:44Dax Shepard:is this play in 2002. I wound up doing this play by Bertolt Brecht called The Resistible Rise of Arturo Uy. It was directed by this dude, Simon McBurney. He's a Brit. He has a theater company called Theater Complicite. And he gets Al Pacino to play the main role in this. It's like a gangster story that Brecht wrote. And the cast, it's Chaz Palminteri, Al Pacino, Charles Durning, Steve Buscemi, Paul Giamatti, Billy Crudup, Linda Eman. And Sterling K. Brown. And so I was the reader.

39:20Sterling K. Brown:Oh, I love this already.

39:22Dax Shepard:I was the reader for the production. Which means, tell people what the reader does. The talent comes in and they audition. And you're the person that reads with the people who are auditioning to be a part of the show. Right. John Goodman was in this thing. And so I had just torn my ACL and I was doing Shakespeare in the Park. I was doing Twelfth Night in the Park. It was Zach Braff. It was Oliver Platt. It was a whole bunch of people. Right. And I had to lose my part because I tore my ACL. I got replaced by David Harbour.

39:49Sterling K. Brown:Oh, my goodness. He then did a play with, you know, six or something.

39:53Dax Shepard:I haven't done a play with Harbour. Well, you haven't? No, but his career did just fine after he finished being in the park. So I had to leave the play. And then the casting director's like, come be a reader for me. And so I'm a reader. And I'm listening to all these wonderful people come in and talk about the show. And at the end of it, the director's like, why don't you be a part of this thing? I was like, are you serious? And he's like, yeah, I've seen you read. I see how you interact with the town. I think you'd be a perfect fit. So get this. We had eight weeks of rehearsal for a four-week run.

40:23Dax Shepard:This is unheard of, right? Like it was like theater camp. I was just out of school and I got a chance to watch all these people do improv.

40:30Sterling K. Brown:Oh my God. Yeah.

40:31Dax Shepard:Your heroes are just like on the same playing field doing shit that nobody else gets to see. And you get a front row seat. I'm just like popping popcorn and just going nuts. It was amazing.

40:41Sterling K. Brown:Who was the most kind of mind blowing that you would find yourself telling other people? Okay. Fucking so-and-so was doing that.

40:47Dax Shepard:I have an answer. And then this is not downgrading anybody else because everybody else. Oh, I know what you're going to say. No, you don't. Crude up.

40:54Sterling K. Brown:No. Oh, okay. But Billy is the shit. Yeah, yeah.

40:57Dax Shepard:What a monster. It's Goodman.

40:59Sterling K. Brown:Yeah, I could see that.

41:01Dax Shepard:Goodman's different.

41:02Sterling K. Brown:Goodman will fuck you up.

41:03Dax Shepard:Fuck your whole shit up. Like, because he can do impersonations, his commitment, and just level of depth. It can be serious, and it can be fucking laugh out loud hysterical.

41:16Sterling K. Brown:The range.

41:17Dax Shepard:He was special.

41:19Sterling K. Brown:Oh, that's so cool. Oh, I like that. How did Al Pacino and you interact? He was great. I've never met him. I only know the persona. It seems wild.

41:27Dax Shepard:He loves to play chess, right? And he's like, come on, you want to play? And we're sitting around, we're playing chess. And the whole time he's talking shit. He's like, I wouldn't do that. I was like, you do your game, Al, I'll do mine. We played like five times. I beat him four to one. I beat him four to one. Nice. Brown don't back up to nobody.

41:46Sterling K. Brown:This was pointed out about you in an LA Times article where it's like, You're very, very positive and glass half full, and yet you're very competitive. Good. Like almost anything that you get challenged. Whatever. I love that you remember what the total of that was 24 years ago.

42:04Dax Shepard:Four to one. Yeah. What I also learned from watching him and everybody else in this space as well is as a young actor, sometimes you fool yourself into thinking that you have to have your shit figured out from jump. and you sort of deny yourself a process of sort of being messy before you find something. Al was so messy. You got a chance to see it just layer and build and become this beautiful thing.

42:27Sterling K. Brown:That is so encouraging.

42:29Dax Shepard:Incredibly.

42:29Sterling K. Brown:Do you think all these guys are just born, like Brando came out and he can do that? No, they put in work. Yeah. Did you have imposter syndrome? Yeah. But if any dude had been confronting that his entire life, he's at the country day school where he could have imposter syndrome. He's at Stanford where he could have, like you've had some practice. I didn't audition. He just offered you this thing. You're just this kid out of school. I'd be like, oh my.

42:51Dax Shepard:So what I looked at it, I didn't have much to do in the show, but I was part of the ensemble and I got a chance to move around. What I looked at it more as, as just an instructional sort of intensive. I'm going to absorb as much as I can from this possible experience and see how I can use it moving forward. And beyond just the talent part, and this is where Crudup comes in specifically, and Giamatti and Buscemi, And pretty much the whole cast, I would say. When you are confident and secure in what you bring to the table, you have no desire to make other people feel small.

43:24Sterling K. Brown:Yes, that's so true. And that was massive.

43:27Dax Shepard:Because you'll come across egos and you really recognize that the egos are also sort of masquerading their own insecurity.

43:33Sterling K. Brown:Oh, big time.

43:34Dax Shepard:Because they feel like there's something that they're not having that has to make them act out in a particular way. And when you're around people that are like, oh no, my shit is tight. They just say, hey Brown, what you doing? Come on, let's play. Exactly. And that was probably the biggest lesson out of anything.

43:48Sterling K. Brown:That's a life lesson. That's everyone. Massive. How we're walking around life. Yeah. You know where I saw that to the nth degree is I did two different USO tours in Afghanistan and I would be around the normal enlisted dudes moving up to the rangers who are more specialized. But there is a ton of machismo among the normal ranks. Every time I got to go to the special forces range or hang with the special forces, all those dudes are so low key. Yeah. There's not one brag. I get it. The difference between knowing you're the baddest motherfucker in the world and hoping everyone thinks you are, it hits different.

44:20Sterling K. Brown:It's quiet. It's calm.

44:21Dax Shepard:Yes.

44:22Sterling K. Brown:Yeah. Now, I only have it to look at. I know how I would have felt in this situation, but I am so curious. You're a genuinely curious person.

44:29Dax Shepard:This is why you guys are successful. You have genuine curiosity and you put yourself in the position of trying to have profound empathy. and I have to say it is a wonderful model DeShep for a white man to do that because there's not a lot of not a lot of and I'm just saying I'm witnessing and feeling it and I respect it and I appreciate it oh well thank you you're welcome thank you so much

44:54Sterling K. Brown:so between 02 and 16 you work but you're guest starring dude you did every fucking show you were on ER you were on the NYPD you were on anything that was in New York it's hard to find a show probably between 02 and 16 that you weren't in. Yeah. Were you a regular on Army Wives? Because that was six years. I was a regular on Army Wives. Okay, so in that 14 years, you did get six years of stability. I did. But was it maddening to be so fucking close to safety and stability and just being like, why aren't I? Did you ever get frustrated during that? Were the plays keeping you? Like, how were you navigating that zone of being almost at the party?

45:35Dax Shepard:I don't even know if I considered the party to be the end game. I think the end game for me was paying bills, doing the thing that I loved. That was the agreement that I had with God when I graduated from NYU. I was like, look, we spent a lot of money on this degree. I know there's no guarantees on anything, but like if I could just pay the bills doing this thing that gives me so much joy, I would be completely happy. And God met me in that place. Army Wife specifically, I had just gotten married. My wife made us buy this condo with an adjustable rate mortgage. And I was like, this shit don't feel right.

46:09Dax Shepard:In New York? No, it was in LA. Oh, okay. It was in LA. Okay. And she's like, well, you don't have to put money down to get a house. I was like, that's not what my mama told me.

46:17Sterling K. Brown:This is just before the 08 explosion. This is just when we bought an 06 home. They would give a guy with a parrot on his shoulder a$2 million loan. Anything.

46:25Dax Shepard:I would tell Raya, I was like, look, Raya, I think we can afford this. And she'd come in like$100 ,000,$150 ,000 over that. And I'm like, woman, you ain't listening to me. But she came from money.

46:34Sterling K. Brown:Yes, the background. So that's so different. The background.

46:36Dax Shepard:You guys understand that. See? Yeah, yeah. I love that. When Army Wives came around, it was like, OK, here's an opportunity to work. And I have a wife. And I have a condo. I remember her saying to me before, I tested for five pilots right before Army Wives. And I hadn't booked any of them. And she goes, well, maybe you should move back to New York, right? Because things aren't working out for you. I was like, what? I just tested for five pilots. Yeah. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah. But she felt bad about asking me to live in L.A. and not have the same level of work because I was working in theater all the time.

47:06Dax Shepard:But that's when the show came around. And I was like, it's a good part. It's lifetime. I know it's like not the big deal, but I will have stability. Yes. I'll be able to provide. And that was big. And paid off student loans.

47:18Sterling K. Brown:Yeah. Oh, there's nothing like the security of a TV show. Dude. It is so comforting. North Carolina. Come on.

47:24Dax Shepard:Yeah, South.

47:24Sterling K. Brown:South Carolina.

47:26Dax Shepard:Charleston, South Carolina. This was an interesting time in marriage because we had like the six week rule because she couldn't audition from Charleston because you're still going into the room like it wasn't on tape. Six weeks is too long. I want to say that to all married people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't do that. Two, three. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then somebody needs to get on a plane to go see each other. Yeah.

47:42Sterling K. Brown:Yeah, we've had the two week rule since we met. It's a really solid rule. It's a good rule. Yeah, yeah.

47:47Dax Shepard:But so what I thought was I'm winning. Like this is what I wanted. I wanted to be able to work at this thing. I wanted to be able to do different characters. somebody will see it. There was never a matter in my mind of will I not be successful. But successful just meant going from job to job. Safety, I think, is success. So you talk about 2016, you talk about People vs. OJ. That pilot season, I tested for a few pilots. I tested for the OJ pilot. I remember getting the script and then I remember going to the bathroom and shaving my head.

48:21Sterling K. Brown:I didn't even think about it. Well, can we back up? Go ahead. We both watched the OJ trial real time. Yeah, we did. I loved Darden. Like, what were your feelings about Darden? Did not love him.

48:32Dax Shepard:You didn't love him. No. Tell me more. I was on the other side. The thing about the trial, and I was at school at the time. I lived in this black dorm on campus, Ujamaa House. And it was half black and half other. And at the verdict in the TV lounge, you saw the black people erupt with effusion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You saw everybody else be like, what are y 'all talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you have to understand for us, it wasn't necessarily about his innocence or guilt. It was about seeing the criminal justice system work for someone who looked like us.

49:04Sterling K. Brown:Yes. And the doc did an incredible job. The doc is so good on this. The doc is fantastic. And the two points I love from that doc was people need to remember how quickly that trial followed Rodney King. So you saw the guiltiest motherfuckers in the world walk. You were like, oh yeah, guess what? How's that feel? This is what it feels like. There's a great lawyer in that doc who said it was the fifth quarter that a lot of times he played football and sometimes your team lost. But sometimes there was a fifth quarter in the parking lot and sometimes you could win the fifth quarter in the parking lot.

49:36Sterling K. Brown:And he said, this is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. I love all that. But I just thought Darden was like a cool dude. I was like, this guy has been put in the worst position. They've clearly said, who do we have? That's black. Totally. That we can put in front of this jury. Well, let's remind people who that character is for people who did not follow the trial.

49:56Dax Shepard:Chris Darden was on the side of the prosecution against OJ Simpson fighting for Nicole Brown and Goldman. So it was Marsha Clark and Chris Darden fighting against the Dream Team with Johnny Cocker and all the high-powered lords. And it was like, somebody was ready for camera. Somebody was not. I mean, Darden looked fine. Marsha's perm was rough. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, poor Marsh. Not ready for primetime players, right? Against these guys. It's interesting. So now in getting a chance to do the show, it was a matter of seeing things from a very different perspective. Having a profound level of empathy for someone that I did not have necessarily for before.

50:38Sterling K. Brown:They put this black dude in the worst situation.

50:40Dax Shepard:He has to turn against his community for this. Our position is why would you sign up for this? Why are you going to be on the wrong side, bro? Going back to the test and reading it. And then I jumped on YouTube and started looking at different clips of interviews and court footage and then just shaved my head. I didn't even think about it. I was like, my hair will grow back. I shave my head all the time. And I looked in the mirror and I was like, yeah, this works. Going for the audition. And I remember the casting director telling me, you go into these auditions. There's times when you know you're in the pocket and there's times in which you know that you're not.

51:09Dax Shepard:I was like, Brown's in the pocket. And she said, I think you're a better actor than he is a lawyer. Can you muddy it up a little bit? Oh, interesting. I said, watch me work. Say less. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and I knew exactly what she meant and did it. And like, you can see people sort of lean forward. You got a little clumsier, a little less. Do like the little thing. And then didn't hear anything for about four months.

51:28Sterling K. Brown:Oh, God. That's horrible.

51:31Dax Shepard:Thought it had gone away. Bro, I was on my IMDb Pro and I was doing this thing where I was looking at all the things I had tested for and who had booked them. Oh, boy. I was like, oh, Bo Keem got Fargo season two. That's cool. And as I'm doing that, I got a phone call saying they want you to screen test. Wow. For OJ. And I get the show. Now, there's a minute of imposter syndrome because I was like, one of these things is not like the others. I know who all you motherfuckers are. Y 'all don't know who Brown is, but I did have to audition for it. I did have to show that I was worthy of it.

52:03Sterling K. Brown:Yes.

52:03Dax Shepard:You earned it. I had a friend of mine who always tells me you can't be a fan and in the game at the same time. So you have a moment of being like, oh, man, I really enjoy your work. I appreciate what you bring to the table. Okay, let's play that.

52:13Sterling K. Brown:Exactly. Yes, I love that.

52:15Dax Shepard:Again, I think you've been doing this your whole life.

52:17Sterling K. Brown:Maybe. I loved that show. Me too. Thank you, like crazy. I didn't have any baggage with Darden. So I was like, this guy's crushing Darden. Did you ever meet him or hang with him? You look nervous. This is a good question.

52:30Dax Shepard:So I had one moment as I was preparing for it where I was trying to reach out and make contact with him. I found a number like on Yelp and I called the number and it was clear to me when I called it that it was a cell phone. I thought it was just an office number, but it was a cell phone. So I hung up and then he texted back almost like a who this type of thing. I was like, hello, sir. My name is Sterling K. Brown. I've been tasked with portraying you in the upcoming limited series. Which I'm sure you want nothing to do with. You know what I'm saying? Like, would you be interested in meeting for coffee or something like that?

52:57Dax Shepard:Nothing.

52:58Sterling K. Brown:Yeah.

52:58Dax Shepard:And you know what? As I watch him after the trial, I feel like there's still a level of shell shock. I'm sure. That exists in his life that he may have never sort of fully been back from. You want to talk about a traumatic experience?

53:12Sterling K. Brown:Massively. Again, now that you've played him, what that dude was shouldering. And then he doesn't win at the end of it all. It's all for naught. In a case that seemed to everybody to be the easiest case ever to prosecute. This poor dude. Yeah. They got famous. They're lawyers. That's not their plan. Totally. That's not what they want. I feel like the dream team liked that. Yeah. Like they were ready. They wanted to be superstars. The fact that they were the dream team in itself was that. But for the prosecution, they were not ready for what was coming.

53:46Dax Shepard:But it's interesting because I did get a chance to meet Marsha because her and Paulson got pretty chummy with each other. This is so Hollywood. We were at a birthday party for Princess Leia, Carrie Fisher. At that crazy house of hers on Laurel. At the crazy house of hers. And Marsha's there and we're shooting. And I was like, I feel like I know you. She looks at me and she goes, I feel like I know you too. Oh, that's rad. And we hugged each other. Oh, wow. Right? As we left, she kissed me on the lips like this. and that's all I needed. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, it was like, you told me everything I needed to know.

54:22Dax Shepard:Interesting. Yeah. I was saying this too, because she was able to show up in a way that she no longer carried the trial with her. Yeah. Whereas for Chris, I think it's different.

54:34Sterling K. Brown:I can't help but feel very bad for that dude. Yeah. I don't know his backstory, but I'm imagining he wasn't one of 20 black lawyers and he probably wasn't one of 20 black lawyers in college. It's a lonely road to hope. Yeah, yeah, lonely. Okay, so that's incredible. You win an Emmy for that. Yeah. Did the bump of that have any role in This Is Us or was that happening simultaneously?

54:55Dax Shepard:Simultaneously. 20th Century Fox Television was the studio behind This Is Us and People vs. OJ. I got a chance to walk into an audition with what Buzz is. Yeah, yeah. You're always trying to figure out, like, what is Buzz? Like, how do people know that people are about to do something or whatnot? Like, it hasn't come out yet. But the people have been watching the dailies and seeing something come together and they'll be like, you should make sure he auditions for this. That's right. The system starts working for you. The system starts working for you. Yeah, it feels good, doesn't it? Wow.

55:23Sterling K. Brown:And it's scary because the system will stop working for you too. You feel that even more than you felt the heat arrive. You feel the cold coming hard and fast. I'm still right. Yeah, you're not for you. You'll never lose the heat. But I have had the heat, the not heat, the heat. okay so quickly i just want to say you're already immediately debunking the claim i made with marcelo hernandez just two weeks ago when i said only white folks are named randall my middle name is randall you played randall but then again you were raised by white folks so that kind of makes sense kind of makes sense randall cunningham okay that's the only other one randy jackson yeah you can go in by randall yeah yeah and now i want to own my shame and guilt which is Parenthood went off the air the same year they picked up This Is Us.

56:09Sterling K. Brown:I may have even told you this when I run into you.

56:11Dax Shepard:I think I've heard you like, I can't watch it.

56:13Sterling K. Brown:It felt similar to me. And I was like, wait, y 'all just told us you don't want to do a drama. And then now you got this show. And then even bigger dagger in the heart. It's an enormous hit. It was huge. So I'm like, shit. It was huge. They just greenlit Parenthood 2.0, but now it's a hit. And so I never watched it. I never watched it. That's quite all right. Even though I love Dan Fogerman. I love his writing and I should have watched it, but I just didn't because I was too hurt by NBC. I get that.

56:40Dax Shepard:Dan is able to come up with a hook that still makes it a family drama, but has like this sort of time jumping element and this connective tissue. They're like, oh, you're going to figure out at the end of these episodes that these people are connected in ways that you didn't anticipate. So he's good at giving you the thing that we grew up on and the thing that Parenthood did so well. And then also this sort of extra element that brings people in.

57:03Sterling K. Brown:I think he's a plot machine. Most people that write dialogue as well as him are not plot machines. And he somehow is both.

57:09Dax Shepard:He's both. As we would read the episodes, we'd be like, this dude is a fucking mad genius. Like, he just keeps coming up with crazy shit. And now I get a chance to do a second show with him now. And I was like, oh, it's not just in this arena. Wherever you are, he can come up with some dope shit. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. If you dare. We'll see you next time. Thank you.

58:04Dax Shepard:family and they knew my work from there. I had heat from these directors that I had just worked with. The studio, which is doing the show, 20th Century, was like, oh, we're seeing this guy, what he's doing in OJ. And so I go into this meeting with Dan and I'm carrying a football. It's like my Linus security blanket. I almost brought it today, but I was like, all right, Brown, you're almost 50. You don't carry the football everywhere. He always talks about, he's like, who is this guy with this fucking football? And he's like coming in here. I have never felt more comfortable because this is the first time with Buzz and more clarity.

58:33Dax Shepard:on the set of People vs. OJ, producers would come up to me and they would say, hey man, you're cutting together really well. I'd say, thanks man. I'm glad you guys are enjoying the work. They come up to Sarah and I both. You guys are like the heart of the show. And I'm like, oh, really? That's cool. Like, I'm happy you're happy with the work. It took a moment for somebody to actually like grab me by the shoulders and be like, no, dude, shit is popping.

58:55Sterling K. Brown:This is a big deal.

58:56Dax Shepard:Don't miss it. That's what I'm saying because for a long time, my career, like what you're talking about from 02 to 16 is showing up, doing a serviceable job, and going home. But people are looking you now and being like, no, bro, I don't think you get it.

59:09Sterling K. Brown:There's no going home after this.

59:11Dax Shepard:And even going in to Dan, and then I remember doing the audition, I would work on the lines at OJ while they were covering the defense table, and I'd be sitting next to Paulson. I'm like, Paulson, I'm reading the script. I think it's the next job. And she's like, go get that shit. And so I would be working on the lines, going to the audition, like it was butter. And then I had people come up to me and be like, Like, you sure you don't want to like hold out for movies? And my whole thing right now, and I think you're going to vibe on this. I love watching these young people grow up. Like these kids that I have in my house that have my DNA.

59:44Dax Shepard:The opportunity to get a chance to work, to be creatively fulfilled, to be compensated well and go home at night and see them. I'm winning. Yeah.

59:54Sterling K. Brown:I'm winning. Okay. So my questions, I guess, on the show, again, you get nominated. Won an Emmy, won a Golden Globe, won a few things.

1:00:00Dax Shepard:When it was ending, what kind of feelings were you having? Dan always said it was going to be six seasons. I have six seasons of story. He had a beginning, middle, and end. He knew where he wanted the show to end. And I was like, if that's the end of your vision, let's not force it beyond that. So I was very happy. And then I'm always excited to do the next thing, especially like the next thing that's a little scary. Wound up getting an opportunity to do American fiction. This is different for Brown. I hadn't done this. And I love to zig when people think you're going to zag. I get a lot of offers for the only black dude in the family, in a white family.

1:00:34Dax Shepard:And I'm like, I did it. I did it. I had fun with it. Let's see if we can do something different now. I live for the variety. I live for the challenge and the scary thing that's like, can I figure this out? And then just sort of getting in there and figuring it out.

1:00:47Sterling K. Brown:Well, that was going to be the next thing I brought up was going to be American fiction. I saw that and I just thought you were fucking so awesome in it. And in such a wonderful geometry between you and Jeffrey Wright. His energy versus your energy. Your personas was so different and complimentary. And then you guys are dealing with a dad dying. Yeah. What did you find in that movie that you were like, oh, cool. Yeah, I can do this thing now.

1:01:11Dax Shepard:Jeffrey was awesome. I've been a fan his whole career. Peoples Hernandez, Basquiat, whatnot. I got a chance to see him do Top Dog, Underdog at the public theater with him and Don Cheadle. And I was like, oh, man, this is the kind of shit that I want to do. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. So to be on set, to be with one of your idols. Again, you have a moment of fanning out and then you're like, all right, we can't be a fan and end the game at the same time. Let's play ball. I knew my character functioned as a foil to his. He's trying to juggle all these things. He's trying to get a foothold with his writing career.

1:01:45Dax Shepard:He's trying to take care of mom. And my character is sort of like on a different path. I've been married for 20 years. Things have fallen apart. I'm gay. I'm finally coming out of the closet and trying to live my truth. And sometimes what I need out of life right now is not exactly what he needs from me. So it's fun. I often play the guy that has to hold it together. It's fun to be the dude that messes with the dude who has to hold it together. Absolutely. That was a lot of fun. But I think what I found out for me, like I have a lot of gay people in my family and friends and people who had chosen for a period of time to live in the closet and then ultimately come out of the closet.

1:02:25Dax Shepard:There is no real fulfillment in life if you're not allowed to live your truth. And I think what I was most curious about or most interested about is like, okay, how will I show up in this space? Because I've had other characters before that have been offered me who are LGBTQ, and I didn't know if I would be able to do it. So I passed. What I refuse to do is half-ass something. The community that I represent needs to be able to see something on screen that they should be proud of and feels fully inhabited and not sort of commented on. Yes. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. And so, like, it took me probably until I was 47, whenever I wound up doing the role, to be like, the humanity is what's most important to me.

1:03:09Sterling K. Brown:And what about, again, I would be guessing because it's not happened other than when I get to work with occasionally some white trash folks, which they don't come around Hollywood all that much. But you got to do two movies with Chadwick. You're in Black Panther. Then you're doing American fiction. Like, what about working with black folks? Is that extra rewarding in a way?

1:03:27Dax Shepard:Yeah. You know, how can I say it? This is interesting. It's fun. Like on Black Panther, like you go into the hair and makeup trailer and all hair and makeup is black. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you have to get a haircut, you know, shit's going to be right. Yeah. It's going to be a good fade. It's going to be good. Other experiences you walk in, there's not a black person in there, and they pull out a set of clippers that nobody has ever put towards your head before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're like, I guess we're going to wear our hat on this one. You know what I'm saying? What I sort of rejoice into is I think I grew up in an era, like there were a few ensemble things that would take place.

1:04:01Dax Shepard:I remember having this conversation with Chad specifically, where for a long time it seemed for black folks in Hollywood that there could be only one, that only one person was allowed to sort of pop at a time. And I've heard Eddie Murphy talk about this in his documentary and you've heard other people talk about it. There's this thing, number one on the call sheet. And it now seems like there can always be more. Don't get me wrong. Where we're allowed to play and you don't have to see, like if you get something that you took it away from me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not finite resources the way it had been.

1:04:30Dax Shepard:It's not a zero-sum game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think they tried to set it up. like that to make us sort of fight each other instead of support and champion each other. Women too. Agreed. To be in a space right now, I don't want to mistake my own fortune and goodwill for like everything is okay. Sure, sure. Right? Yeah. Because I'm good, but like things can be better for everybody, right? Yes. But I go into rooms and I see people, whether it was Chad before or Michael B or Brian Kenry or Mahershala Ali, who was a year above me at NYU. and I get a chance to see bros and I was like, oh man, we're here.

1:05:05Dax Shepard:It feels good. It's cool to be here.

1:05:07Sterling K. Brown:Yeah. I was saying this the other day. I wonder if you connect to this. I feel like I grew up needing to be the exception.

1:05:15Dax Shepard:Yeah.

1:05:15Sterling K. Brown:Needing to be like, oh, well, we don't like that group, but we like her. We'll let her in because we like her specifically. It was like a game of survival to just be the one that got through. Yeah. And now I'm at an age where I'm like, that's fucked up. I have some guilt around that. Why didn't I embrace those other Indian people, other other people to let in? Because I was so like, I'm in. So I don't care about the rest of you. It's a mind fuck a little bit.

1:05:45Dax Shepard:I think I knew that when it was happening even then. Because you get things like, you're so eloquent and you're so articulate. What a joy. And they're saying it like, you haven't had that experience before, have you? You know what I'm saying? I have this experience quite frequently. So there's that. And then even my school in my CDS, like I remember I won this award called the Headmaster's Cup for the student that best exemplifies the spirit of the school. But I also get that it's a good PR move for the school. I was like, so you guys get something. I get something. We'll call it a wash. We'll call it a win in that sort of way.

1:06:20Dax Shepard:The feeling that I have more than anything right now, which I think is unique to being a person of color and a predominantly white space, which Hollywood is, is that you know how many people are watching you and counting on you. And like, it's just different.

1:06:39Sterling K. Brown:What's he going to say about this?

1:06:41Dax Shepard:It's just different.

1:06:42Sterling K. Brown:Yes.

1:06:43Dax Shepard:You have to, to a certain extent, embrace it. And then you have to remember, you just have to be yourself. But in being yourself, you're trying to bring the best part of yourselves in such a way that you don't set anybody back. That pressure. Please don't send us back, Brown. You know what I'm saying? Please allow us to continue to move forward and champion you and be proud. And I tell folks sometimes, I was like, I might mess up from time to time.

1:07:09Sterling K. Brown:You know, I'll bore everyone listening because I've already said this a million times. But when I first heard white privilege, I was like, okay, I was brought home to a trailer. I had 80 stepdads. There was abuse everywhere. I'm not feeling the privilege then I had the wherewithal to go like oh I was an addict for a decade in this town I rode around with coke in my pocket I drove drunk I talked to cops in a way like yep I 100 % would have been in prison if I was black the variety of addict I was I was mine crack downtown right so okay I see that yeah and then the other privilege this one I was always aware of because I had black friends who popped and I was like it's so unfair the fucking cards are stacked against you you finally get to enjoy this elusive american dream but immediately you're saddled with the political responsibility of representing the whole group it's like it just never ends it's like can't you just be fucking a famous actor who's having fun and that part i have always seen you are also asked to kind of represent yeah i'm not asked to represent anybody right and that just feels like insult to injury it was gonna be impossible for you to get here and now you're here you have to take on also all this other stuff that you You might not have been politically minded.

1:08:14Sterling K. Brown:You might not have been anything. But that is now also on your plate. It's all that shit.

1:08:18Dax Shepard:How do I explain it? It kind of snuck up on me. Because I don't know if I was outwardly looking for things. People will talk about my wife and I as like Ozzie Davis and Ruby Dee, which is like this wonderful historical couple that went through the arts. But they were also very much activists, too. Because, like, I was the first person to do a few things. To win a Golden Globe in this category. To win the SAG Award in this category. And so when you're the first, sometimes it's like, oh, so you must be in this lineage of other firsts. You know what I mean? The Sidneys and Paul Robesons.

1:08:50Sterling K. Brown:Well, you're a hero whether you wanted to be a hero or not. Whether you wanted or not. You might as well be an actor, but now you're kind of a hero.

1:08:55Dax Shepard:I suppose so. Like it or not. I suppose so. An inspiration. What do you call the handcuffs to feel good?

1:09:03Sterling K. Brown:Golden handcuffs. Something like that.

1:09:04Dax Shepard:Yeah, yeah. I am honored to be a representative and also... Want some days off? Yeah. Yeah, I would want some days off, too. The pressure's extra. It just is. It's just different. Yeah. But it's cool. I still have fun. Would I change anything? I don't think so. Even the amount of time that it took for me to get to this place, because if it had happened too young, I probably wouldn't have been able to handle it in the same way that I'm able to handle it now. Yeah. have a little bit of perspective on things and appreciation for where you are in this current

1:09:36Sterling K. Brown:moment yeah i dig it life is good bro yeah yeah it's okay if it's good that's the other thing you feel a little guilty if it's good right no i don't oh you don't good good i know i have some weird from where i'm from guilt about it's not supposed to be this good i've gone through enough

1:09:51Dax Shepard:shitty things that i think they're like no i'm okay with this yeah okay let's talk paradise so

1:09:59Sterling K. Brown:we had Marsden on last season. That's my man. And I told him this and I'll be straight up. I'm like, I'm always going to watch people's shit before I interview them. Yeah. I don't know that I'm looking forward to this. Sure. I'm going to watch two episodes. I watch all six they gave me. I get Kristen in the mix. I'm now texting them like, you got to give me the rest of these. There's no way I can wait now till the season came out. We're calling everything.

1:10:24Dax Shepard:She FaceTimed me with the girls. Oh, right, right. We hit you directly. Yes. You're like, Brown, give me this. I was like, I can't do this.

1:10:31Sterling K. Brown:Dude, we love that. It's so bad. We love Paradise. Thank you. It's so good.

1:10:36Dax Shepard:Thank you so much. And you're such a badass. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I appreciate it.

1:10:40Sterling K. Brown:You get to do all the things. You're thoughtful and sweet, and you're a good dad, and you're tough as a motherfucker. I mean, you get to do all the good stuff. I get to do a lot. I want to tell you something right now. As an appreciator of the male physique, I'd say a connoisseur. Come on, man. Grew up in the 80s watching Schwarzenegger. Sure. How else? could I be? The upper body's outstanding. I'm like, fuck.

1:11:01Dax Shepard:But I can obtain that. But we're about to talk about the posterior chain right now. I feel you. I saw those buns. Chris, I don't watch the buns.

1:11:08Sterling K. Brown:She goes, whoa. And I go, oh my fucking God. Now listen.

1:11:13Dax Shepard:Bell did that.

1:11:15Sterling K. Brown:I'm coccozoitally challenged. All of my workout is my buns. It's almost all I work out. And I've just now gotten them convex instead of concave. Oh my Lord. The buns, the sun's rising sets. This is what it is.

1:11:31Dax Shepard:My wife has a delightful posterior chain. And my whole thing is I want to keep up. I want to keep up with the missus. Sometimes I just walk around and I was like, what is that like? Like, does your lower back feel more relaxed because you have so much girth?

1:11:48Sterling K. Brown:If you were to fall out of a tall building, would you prefer to land on that? You know what I'm saying? just sort of like that, right?

1:11:58Dax Shepard:We got the Peloton tread. You crank that joint up to 15 or whatever. What a couple you two are. Sort of do the thing. We're just trying to, yeah. Well, congrats. Congrats. Namaste. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you very much. So being on the brink of 50, having this thing, I finished shooting season two, go to play basketball with my son's basketball coach, lighten up these high school kids, et cetera. Go to make a move to go left. and then it felt like somebody stomped on the back of my foot with a cleat. And I said, who stepped on my foot? And they're like, what are you talking about? I was like, no, don't play games.

1:12:31Dax Shepard:Just tell me who stepped on my foot and apologize and we'll be cool. And they're like, black man, nobody stepped on your foot. And that's when I knew, I was like, ah, Kobe. And I tried to stand up and I couldn't. And I just scooched myself off the court, finished watching the game because I wanted my team to win and they did. And I said, does anybody have any crutches? and then just crutched my way to the car and drove to the emergency room. Did you have surgery? Didn't have to have surgery. Yeah, our friend Charlie did this one. Because it went like that. So if it goes like that, you have to have surgery.

1:13:01Dax Shepard:You have to get the thing. But mine just went like that.

1:13:03Sterling K. Brown:Hyper separation. But it is humbling. And it's depressing. Clearly you work out like I do, right? It is the last thing that would go from my routine for my mental health. I would ditch everything, even AA, before I would ditch this. Really? Yes. Let's not do that. Well, I'm just going to throw that out there. I think that one's more important, but just wanted to say that. Did it mess with you? Oh, bro, it's terrible. You're approaching 50, so we know it's a limited period where we're going to be able to do what we're doing.

1:13:33Dax Shepard:Right. And it does feel different in terms of like, oh, does this mean I have to give things up that have given me joy throughout my life? And I think the short answer is yes. Not in totality, but you have to amend. You have to shift. you don't see 90-year-old people dunking. So there's the atrophy of not using the leg, going around on this knee scooter, trying to have the most fun I can, but still just being like, oh man. In my mind, I am a beast. I go after everything 179%. To not be able to attack life for a period of time is tough. To feel vulnerable, to have to ask for help. Yes. Right? Maybe that's a gift.

1:14:16Sterling K. Brown:That's part of the lesson. Yep. part of the lesson.

1:14:18Dax Shepard:But I'm telling you, when you put the geriatric bench in the shower that has the suction cup bottom so you don't slip, and you're like, oh, we're in a different place in life now.

1:14:28Sterling K. Brown:You know Ryan's not like catching a glimpse of that and being like, oh, baby, I gotta make time for you. No. There's nothing sexy about it. We don't know what her kink is. Well, we did just do a kink episode, so

1:14:37Dax Shepard:anything's possible. I will say this. She'll hate me saying this, but this is true. We have different drives, but even the bird, who is Ryan Michelle I told her, I said, you don't have to worry about knocking boots for the foreseeable future. I'm taking a break. I'm tapping out. But once a month, she's like, no, you're not. Oh, good for her. And I say good for her, too, because I didn't even think it was going to happen. I was like, that was fun.

1:15:01Sterling K. Brown:Okay. That's that level of intimacy you were talking about earlier. There you go. It's important.

1:15:09Dax Shepard:Once a month. She's like, no, we're going to do it.

1:15:12Sterling K. Brown:Okay. So season two. So just to remind people, so season one, you are a secret service agent. Correct. Marzen is a very flawed president. Yep. You guys are in this paradise bunker. There has been an enormous tsunami followed by maybe some nuclear fallout. Your wife. Now, the only part that drove me fucking nuts, we might have sent you hate messages during this. Possibly. What is it? The fact that your wife was like, no, I'm still going to Atlanta. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is the only part of this show. I'm like, absolutely not. Kristen tells me I'm going to Atlanta and I know the world's going.

1:15:41Sterling K. Brown:I'm like, guess what? you're going not by choice now. Yeah.

1:15:44Dax Shepard:Even my wife says, I think you could have been a bit stronger.

1:15:48Sterling K. Brown:I was in bribing dialogue for you that I thought might have gotten the wife on the plane with you. But if you married to a sister,

1:15:55Dax Shepard:you don't tell them nothing. My wife doesn't listen to me anyway, so it seemed like art imitating life. I was like, look, I'm trying to tell you something. She's like, no, no, no, I'll be fine. I'm like, okay, that sounds right.

1:16:06Sterling K. Brown:Hence your podcast, We Don't Always Agree. There you go. Yeah, yeah. There's an episode in season one. I mean, we all know it. the big world. Well, I don't, in case it's a spoiler. Episode 107. Correct.

1:16:16Dax Shepard:The penultimate. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:16:17Sterling K. Brown:I think about that episode at random. And that's one of the scariest episodes of television that I've ever seen.

1:16:23Dax Shepard:Yeah, it was a good one.

1:16:24Sterling K. Brown:So good and a little too potentially real.

1:16:27Dax Shepard:Yeah.

1:16:27Sterling K. Brown:So much about it is harrowing.

1:16:30Dax Shepard:There are things like after the show came out, do you remember like seeing all these articles about people having bunkers in their home and stuff and like people who are actually doing this stuff?

1:16:40Sterling K. Brown:Your wife is in this camp a little bit. Yeah. Your house had a basement originally, but it was shut down because the boys weren't to be down there. But then wifey wanted to open that motherfucker back up and stock it. Yeah.

1:16:52Dax Shepard:We have a bunker. We have a mid-century modern house. So a lot of the houses that are built in Ladere right after, you know, World War II. I think a lot of folks are thinking like, you know what? Just in case, we have a little bunker, 40 people comfortably or what have you. But we've had it closed up because we don't want little boys running down there and getting trapped. but I think we're about to open that joint back up.

1:17:12Sterling K. Brown:Yeah, not a bad time. Just restock. Things feel a little tenuous right now. Yeah. Okay, so season two, I watched the first episode of season two last night. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was about to ruin my whole sleep schedule and binge more, but I was like, no, Belle's gonna, then I'm gonna be watching all these all over again, right? I got you. But boy, what he does so well, he's got a lot of gifts, but one of his gifts is he can introduce you to a character and get you to care about that character in record time. It's insane, the math of what he does. But we meet Shailene Woodley. What do you want to tell me?

1:17:44Sterling K. Brown:I don't want to.

1:17:44Dax Shepard:Annie. So we meet her in Graceland. And we see like the events from season one where the president is giving his speech to the world, to America at large, and letting them know that you have a limited amount of time. So you may want to spend time with people that you love. And you start to see like the fallout of things encroaching on Graceland. And so it's like, how did the people who didn't have time and planning and resources, how did they deal with this situation?

1:18:11Sterling K. Brown:Yes, it's a very cool way to catch us up to what has been happening outside of that bunker. And she's got a very fascinating storyline in that she was a doctor, but she couldn't hang. And she ends up being like a tour director at Graceland. That's correct. and she's waiting out this crazy natural disaster at graceland with a security guard it's just

1:18:36Dax Shepard:incredibly touching oh yeah it is that's what i go to yeah yeah there's some really beautiful scenes between her and the security guard yeah and then the marauders show up and you're panicked that is correct marauders do we have good people that we're encountering do we have benign people that we're encountering like are the most selfish parts of humanity being augmented or the most selfless parts of human, like you don't know. And I think that's part of the mystery of the world at large. Are people going to show up as their best selves or as the people that just want to take it?

1:19:06Sterling K. Brown:And they address that. And I love the explanation of it. And then I'll add that you're getting to see what it causes this like insane winter there in Memphis in summer and it's snowing and frigid and cold. You're kind of getting your cake and eating it too in this show. Cause now Now it's kind of like these post-apocalyptic shows we're kind of used to. And some of the tropes we're used to, but then they're getting kind of spun on in their head. It's groovy. Are there twists?

1:19:33Dax Shepard:Oh, yeah.

1:19:34Sterling K. Brown:Okay. Oh, shit, girl. First season has so many twists.

1:19:37Dax Shepard:The biggest twist of this season, I can only hint at, but like if you've seen the trailer, Sinatra played marvelously by Julianne Nicholson.

1:19:47Sterling K. Brown:Oh, so good.

1:19:47Dax Shepard:I love Julianne Nicholson. She's the shit. But she says in the trailer, she says it was never just about the bunker. And she means that in a quite literal way. What we find out about the bunker is probably the most intriguing part of season two. An addendum to whether or not Xavier finds his wife. Yeah. Right? Because I actually just had season three pitched to me, which will be our final season. Oh, God. It's always been conceived of of three seasons. Right? He's always doing this. Keep him wanting more. But like in everything else in a movie or play, you kind of already know the beginning, middle, and end.

1:20:27Dax Shepard:And so you get a chance to drive the plot towards something.

1:20:30Sterling K. Brown:Yes, I respect it.

1:20:31Dax Shepard:I respect it a great deal. My crew, I want to say this, just like maybe we can get 10 episodes instead of 8 in future shows that I do because crews are suffering. Yeah, yeah. The amount of time that they get to spend at work is different when you go from 22 to 18 to 8 to 10. You know what I'm saying? So I want my people to eat.

1:20:52Sterling K. Brown:Yeah, you got to get on three shows to make up for what it was to be on one show.

1:20:56Dax Shepard:I was watching on whatever stream. I was watching like a season of Soap. It was like 32 episodes in a season. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I was like, oh, I didn't know that was legal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

1:21:08Sterling K. Brown:They started production on Jan 1 and they ended up. There's no December 24th. Exactly. Let's go back to work. Do you sense that you have this creative partnership with him that'll just go on and on?

1:21:20Dax Shepard:Yeah. He's so incredibly imaginative. And Fogelman turns 50 in February. I turned 50 in April. We're the same age. You know, he's got a kid. I got kids. And we're in interesting places in our lives. And we kind of just get each other. We laugh at the same sorts of things. And like, I'll have him introduce me at stuff. And he'll have me do stuff. and it just fits in an incredibly lovely way. And I think he has a desire to keep recreating himself and what people expect from him as well. And that's what also makes for such a delightful creative partnership.

1:21:53Sterling K. Brown:Yeah, yeah. You both want to try something new every time. Absolutely. Yeah, that's the dream. Well, Sterling, this has been delightful. Long time coming. I've been pestering you. I know, we've been at you. When I bump into you, I'm always like, let's go, dude.

1:22:05Dax Shepard:It's been a long time coming. Yeah, yeah. I'm happy that we finally made it happen. You guys are awesome. I see why you got the nomination at the Globes. I'm sorry I didn't go your way, but it's always next year. You know what I'm saying? I told Rob, I said, that was us. We're going to come for you. If we possibly can. But like, I love giving flowers in real time because I've done enough things. And I see people who do their research and et cetera. But you do a deep dive, Randall. You do a deep dive.

1:22:32Sterling K. Brown:Don't you wipe me up here at the end. Last question. Go ahead. Do you and Ryan play spades? Come on, bro. Because you want to get competitive, motherfucker. I'm a card-carrying African-American.

1:22:43Dax Shepard:You want to play some spades? You play spades?

1:22:45Sterling K. Brown:Oh. You play spades? Oh, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Listen, does your wife play? I'm going to warn you. Do you guys play as a couple? Yes, and I'm going to warn you. Had Metta World Peace on. Yeah. He plays in Wade Spades, the tournament. He said, you think you can play? I said, yeah, I think we can play. And we had he and his wife over, and we fucking destroyed them. Did you really?

1:23:05Dax Shepard:So you better come sharp. I'll come. My wife is terrible.

1:23:10Sterling K. Brown:that's the best part is playing with wives is that greatest she's terrible but i i think bell

1:23:15Dax Shepard:is probably better but there's also a game i want you to look up it's called bid whist yeah that's

1:23:19Sterling K. Brown:the next yeah we've heard about that can you teach us i can teach you yeah yeah yeah big whiz is like yeah i know i know about it yeah yeah we'll come over we'll play oh can't wait can't wait all right be well right on man i sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong. Happy Lunar New Year. Oh, I was waiting for you to... I knew you were waiting for me to see it. Wish me well on this Lunar New Year. It's a big day. For astrologists? It's the year of the horse starts today. So this is really... Oh, I almost did it.

1:23:57What?

1:24:03Sterling K. Brown:This episode's about horse.

1:24:08Sterling K. Brown:feel good you're giggling this time you were really nervous last time i did it yeah i was having some kind of a neurological well it really came out of nowhere if you if you remember um it is it is the lunar new year which is the beginning the real beginning of the year oh so scratch what's been happening okay okay so reset all your resolutions yes and there's a lot to do today. Oh, tell me. There's homework that comes along with the year of the horse? Yes. You're supposed to wear red. Fuck. Okay. I forgot to text you. The back of my shoes got a touch of red. As long as there's any red in your underwear.

1:24:47Sterling K. Brown:My panties are red. That counts. I don't know if that's true, but I do have red panties in my collection. I'm wearing red panties, red socks, and a red sweater. Okay. That's not orange-ish. No, it's red. It's just red. Yeah. Okay. It's like a tomato. Okay, great. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going crazy. No, you're not going crazy. But it's red. I'm also about to start my period. I hope it comes today because then it's like red from the inside. Yes. Wait, red is always associated with the horse or just this year? We don't know that one. So I don't know too much about the origin, the backstory, the background.

1:25:25Sterling K. Brown:But I do have the rules. Okay. Hit me with the rules. Okay. So wear red. You blow salt in the front door. That's supposed to clean last year away. Okay. And then you blow cinnamon in. What if you loved last year and you don't want to dust it away? No, you still need. Refresh. Refresh. Strengthening. Growth. Renewal. Last year, you're the snake was about shedding. Have you done something with your hair? No, but that reminds me of a huge rule. You're not allowed to wash your hair today or cut it. Okay. Did you already cut your hair today? No, I think last night I did a little snip. Okay, don't cut it today.

1:26:05Sterling K. Brown:Okay. It's good you said something because, although I did cut two of my toenails, is that? Yeah, we're really not supposed to do any cutting today, but it's okay. All right. You don't have to count that. Okay. Blow the salt. Okay, I'm going to read from two different sources. One is my friend Rachel. Okay. She knows about all this stuff. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, you blow salt in the entryway and say, thank you for the lessons of the past year. they helped me grow and expand and I release what no longer aligns. I make space for what is meant for me. Oh, great. Then have you done the salt blowing yet?

1:26:37Sterling K. Brown:Not yet. I'm gonna do it tonight. Okay. Blow cinnamon in and say, I welcome in this blessed new year with abundance. Your brand new house, which you've been waiting six years to move to is gonna be covered with spit, spilled, boiled milk and salt all over the ground. I did say, I was like, oh no. And then it it's on the floor and she was like i mean i guess you could do it kind of outside i was like no no i am gonna do this one properly lay a towel down this is what i do when i cut my hair in the bathroom just lay a big towel out over the in the foyer yeah and then blow salt everywhere and then pick the towel up and shake it out outside i wonder that could undo it yeah we gotta live with it yeah oh my gosh okay okay and then don't use scissors or knives i mean i guess you can use knives i use scissors already today what'd you use on my toenail i was in the gym and i didn't have any nail clippers so i had to use my hair cutting shears that i keep in my gym which is unique it's okay okay i think we're going to say that one's okay just try not to do any more okay okay don't sweep or take out the trash okay i mean blessings to everyone do they not feel insanely arbitrary?

1:27:50Sterling K. Brown:No, there's there's reasons. It's like the milk. We just don't know. OK, don't wash your hair. This is a big one. OK, don't wash your hair or cut your hair. It's because there's like luck and stuff in hair. That's what Rachel said. And I was like, that kind of makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. There's luck in your hair. I'm lucky. Yeah. And I have a lot of hair you do you do who knew those were connected but now i know oh uh-oh i have very little hair which must mean i'm out of luck no and it's and it's getting diminished you have you are a very lucky person i am i am don't eat porridge or congee we're not gonna count oh oh porges oh yeah i blew it my lunar year is not good no don't don't say that okay but i've done virtually all the things wrong so i didn't blow salt i did cut my toenails i used scissors i took out the trash this morning i ate porridge you took out the trash okay just don't wash your hair that's the that's gonna be the biggest yesterday so i'm sure i'll make it through today without it says don't wear all black it's okay you're not wearing all black or all white don't be over six foot two i know i sent this morning to the group happy lunar new year year of the horse here we go and then erica sent this list.

1:29:11Sterling K. Brown:And yeah, Laura and Amy were like, I've already done all those things. Okay. Don't wake up early. How early did you wake up? Early. Because we're back to school today. 6.15. But is that earlier than normal or normal? That's on the early side. Yeah. Boy. At this point, I should just list everything I've done today and it'll virtually be the null hypothesis of this list. Don't nap during the day. Haven't yet. Okay. So don't do that. Don't break anything. Oh, you broke something. No, I didn't. But now I know as soon as you tell someone not to break something, they're going to break something. I'm worried about this one as well.

1:29:50Sterling K. Brown:I'm also worried about this one. Don't cry. Oh, I already teared up this morning watching the pilot of that show. Oh, no. But you didn't. Did you have spillage? You said it didn't spill over. I had some tears. Don't eat, quote, bitter foods. I haven't done that, but I am taking Delty to lunch after this. Just don't order anything bitter. Okay. And don't wash your clothes. I can handle that. Now, don't wash your clothes is interesting because that one crosses over with my parents' superstition about on New Year's Day, you can't do laundry. So that's interesting. What are the ones from New Year's Day?

1:30:32Sterling K. Brown:Don't eat meat. On New Year's. On New Year's Day. For you guys. Okay, New Year's Day. um don't wash clothes don't spend money eat collard greens and black eyed peas well mainly black eyed peas that's like if you don't my mom was just like forcing it into our mouths yeah um i had a thought about your mom just yesterday what did you think i was thinking she too was a brown girl that grew up in savannah georgia yeah did she have a white boy did she love white boys no you didn't well that i know you ever asked her no she doesn't like talking about that kind of thing i'd like to talk to her about no i'm kidding no she she she probably knew that that wasn't an option for her i'm sure there's a lot of white boys that are loved it no no not not because of her exactly yeah she probably knew that she was going to need to marry an indian man yeah um so I got real curious.

1:31:34Sterling K. Brown:I think when I walked through your house, there's a picture of her when she's young. Yeah, she's 17. It's a beautiful picture of her. Yeah. So I think I was just thinking, yeah, she was in high school with a bunch of white dudes. Did she have crushes on white dudes? Or does she like, I don't even think about it because I know I got to marry an Indian. I don't know. There's a lot there. Did she ever have a boyfriend before your dad? I don't think so. You don't know. I don't know. But I think I would know. I would know if she had. Because she would have told you? I think it would have come up. It would have come up.

1:32:04Sterling K. Brown:They don't like talking about their past. Their love life? They definitely. Did your dad have a girlfriend before? I've never heard about anyone's love life before my parents. Are you not curious if your dad had a girlfriend ever before your mom or your mom had a boyfriend? I just think it was a different time and a different type of thing. Like, I don't think they did it. Well, my mom, a little different because she was here. But I think in India, no, at that time, they weren't having girlfriends and stuff. They were like in school playing cricket and then trying to get to America. They lived in a village.

1:32:41Sterling K. Brown:Yeah. One of the screensavers now on Apple TV is of Kerala. And it's unbelievable. It's of tea plantations on the side of mountains. And I'm like, fuck. A lot of tea there. I know. I don't think I'll ever know. I just don't think it's... You're never going to ask. I don't... They don't want to talk about that, Dax. I want to... Can I ask them independently? Not in front of each other. That might be awkward. If it comes up very naturally, don't put either of them on the spot. If you're going to put someone on the spot, it better be my dad. Yeah, I could... I'll get a beer in him. He's going to say...

1:33:17Sterling K. Brown:Let's go for a walk, a show, and I'll get a couple beers in him. And I'll be drinking an NA. Oh, you're going to trick him. I'm going to trick him. I'm going to put it in a real beer bottle. Oh, no. That would be a full trick for the year of the horse.

1:33:34Sterling K. Brown:Oh, also, I think I know the other reason I was thinking about it. OK. Because of our really wonderful guests. And if people didn't listen to this episode, I think they should. I think it's one of these very special episodes. But the head of the Kinsey Institute. And he was talking about the success rate of arranged marriages. Yes. And not just the success rates. I think that could be misleading. Like they stay together. But it's also like sexual fulfillment, attraction. All those track as high as any other marriage on average. So, yeah, maybe that also got me real curious about your parents. Yeah, I think they just both knew they were going to marry something semi arranged.

1:34:15Sterling K. Brown:Probably my dad definitely thought he would have an arranged marriage. Yeah, but young men, you know, young men find ways. I hate to say they find ways. I don't need to know about it. Yeah, but I love. Okay. So don't tell you when I find out. No, tell me. Would you want to know if your dad had a sweetheart? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if any of them did, I guess. Yeah. I'd like to know the whole story. My mom is a really, really nice, good girl. She's not such a good girl. She is. She's sitting at home right now watching naughty YouTube videos of divorce trials where people poop on bed. She's got a freak side.

1:34:50Sterling K. Brown:Listen, she's over time. But when she was young, she did exactly what she was supposed to do. She did everything my grandparents wanted her to do. She did. She checked off all. So, no, I don't think she was. I don't think she had her light on for that. Yeah. Vacancy sign. Open for business. Yeah. She had no vacancy. So, yeah. I mean, when my mom and dad met, she was probably 22, 21. That's young. Yeah. Yeah. But your dad was like 26 or seven. Yeah. He's seven years older than her. 28. Maybe they were. Let me ask. I will ask her that. Okay. Say, stop talking about me. Say Dax is going to hit you separately with some follow-up questions.

1:35:38Sterling K. Brown:Don't answer. If he calls you, don't pick up. Anywho. So. Oh, yeah. you're the horse we have such opposite moms is what it is like mom i mean it's crazy because my mom's here right now yeah yeah uh she's been here for a week and like i know every i think i know every single thing yeah yeah well each one has its pros and cons everything is trade-offs sure yeah it's just cult part of it's i i think part of it for me is double whammy culture it's Indian culture and southern culture. Both things don't lend itself to that. We were definitely asymmetric in what my mom told us. I didn't have any other friends whose mom told me.

1:36:28Sterling K. Brown:Your mom is probably on one end of the spectrum and my mom is probably on the very opposite end. I think we had literally opposite in that regard. Did we finish all the Year of the Horse stuff? Oh, there's more, I think. Do you read stuff on Instagram and it alleviates stuff? And granted, I recognize it probably figured me out and it's giving me stuff that helps alleviate. But one thing that was very viral for the last few months is that men who disobey traffic rules make better husbands. Have you seen this? Oh, my God. All of these are so dumb. I know, I know, I know. But it's citing a study.

1:37:04Sterling K. Brown:What did it say? That they're more creative by nature and they keep things more novel and interesting and fun. so of course every guy who drives like an idiot has been forwarding this is like very very viral so that one of course i loved and and then when i saw that was this made me feel so good it's it's like um researchers say couples who don't celebrate valentine's day are happier and i was like oh i think i saw that you see that and i was like oh thank god i mean who is doing these studies this is not these aren't true well we don't know it's not true well there could easily be a study we're We're not poking holes in like huge studies.

1:37:40Sterling K. Brown:We're not going to poke holes in this Instagram quote study. I'm only saying we had the head of the Kinsey Institute and it's tons of studies like that exist. I know. I just. It's just so individual. It doesn't make sense. Like if you guys celebrated Valentine's Day, it's not going to make it worse. No, but it's just comforting to know that people who don't celebrate report higher. Who are they asking? The man who doesn't want to be going to the restaurant or whatever? I mean, that's the thing that keeps me from, quote, celebrating. It's like it's the worst day in the year to try to go out to a restaurant or flowers or anything.

1:38:20Sterling K. Brown:It's like it just makes anything that would be normally enjoyable really unenjoyable. It is. But then you don't have to go out. You can just celebrate by saying Happy Valentine's Day or giving a card. What happens, for better or worse, is my girls are my valentines. Yeah. And so I went all out. Oh, what'd you guys do? For my girls. All I'll say is that someone had a less than exciting valentine's day versus their anticipation. So I know that my daughter loves floaties for the pool. So I got heart shaped floaties and inflated them and put them in the pool. I made each of them handmade cards where I really drew pictures.

1:39:06Sterling K. Brown:And then I wrote really. That's so cute. You know how I felt about them. So I put I put several hours into my valentines on Saturday. That's beautiful. Yeah. And then my mom's in town. Yes. She's been my valentine for 51 years. So just it really becomes a bandwidth. Yes. All my resources went to the little ones and I definitely neglected my mom and Kristen. But I think from Kristen and my mom's point of view, they saw that I was spending a lot of my energy on my other two Valentine's. Kristen, that is the Valentine's gift. I hope so. I think so. I think so, too. Jess and I celebrate a Valentine's Day together.

1:39:50Sterling K. Brown:Tell me what you do. Did you dare go to a restaurant? We did. And? Because Houston's on Saturday has chili. Only on Saturday. And it's really good. And his pig wanted it. And at first he was like, oh, God, like it's Valentine's Day. I mean, yeah. And he said, we're going to get it. Happy wife, happy life. So we went. So my mom is in town. And I said yesterday I took her I took her to breakfast the day before and then last night took her to dinner at Capitol Grill. And she said, you know what I really haven't had in a while is Houston's. And I go, yeah, hon, hon. I said, oh, God.

1:40:39Sterling K. Brown:I said, yeah, mom, I don't go to Houston's anymore. I can't wait an hour. I mean, good for them. And they deserve it. The food is so fucking good. Did you have the chili? Was it good? Yeah, it's so good. Is it? It's so good. I know that you were going there on Sundays in the past because they had grilled cheese and soup. That's right. That's their special on Sunday, but their special on Saturday is chili. Do they have a special every day or just the weekend? They have a special soup every day. Okay. So the chili is the soup on Saturday and the tomato soup is the... Now, I had gone the weekend before to get the chili.

1:41:17Sterling K. Brown:Okay. And I got there at like six or was seated at like six and it had, it was sold out. Oh, fuck. So I waited the whole week and then we went, we went at like one, 30, two. Yeah. Good time. Yeah. And it wasn't sold out. So I got to have it. Okay. Great. And then we went to Highland Park. All right. It was in search of a plant. I'm looking for a plant, plants for my house. Yeah. and yeah and this place was recommended we go there it was closed but uh we went to some other we bopped around and it's just so fun to bop around places you're not normally bopping yes it uh it slows time down it does and it feels like you're on vacation in your own city yeah and so we did that and then um he said he saw a billboard of with jamie lee curtis on it okay Reminder Jess is gay And he said Oh Jamie Lee Curtis She's so He said She's so hot And I was like oh And he was like in True Lies And I said oh I've never seen that And he was like oh yeah She's like so She's so hot in it And I was like oh okay well I want to watch that So when our night was over I started True Lies great movie oh i was loving it i didn't finish it yet james cameron exactly i can't lose yeah and i was really enjoying it and i will say for a lot of it i was like what is just she plays a nerdy housewife until she finds out her husband is a spy and then she locks into spy vibe exactly and there's one scene you see her boobs you see her she gets her boobs involved yeah that's what he said he was like i just liked her boobs and and her hair and i said oh when she put water in her hair yeah i think she slicked it back yeah with water yeah there it is yeah she's lifting them up we all remember it we have a picture we have a nice picture of her tugging tugging them up maybe we could get a picture up of her before she turns because i'm watching and i'm like oh this boy is so gay uh-huh he doesn't know yes she's got like a guy's haircut yeah and uh sally Jessie Raphael's glasses on.

1:43:42Sterling K. Brown:And she's in like a lot of clothes. I mean, she's still pretty. Like her face is still pretty. But she's not doing herself a ton of favors with her style. And it's meant, it's clearly meant to be that way. Because it's supposed to be a turn. It's virtually the trope of the girl who's not pretty until she takes her glasses off. Exactly. And then the question is, does she ever see that? Remember, that was my riddle. That's right. How does she know? Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert.

1:44:09Dax Shepard:if you dare.

1:44:18Sterling K. Brown:Anyway, so that was interesting because I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Do you put your glasses on when you watch TV? No. Never. And actually, we were watching, I was watching a show with Jess and Anna where there was a big part of the show, Heated Rivalry, very popular show. A lot of that show was via text. Oh. And I they had to play roles and read them out loud because it was nice of them because I couldn't read them. I guess that is all the things for Year of the Horse. OK, great. Well, you're doing sounds like you're acing it. So far, so good. I haven't cried yet. I just want to point out now that the lunar calendar is 360 days long.

1:44:59Sterling K. Brown:You know this? Oh, I didn't know that. That's how many times it takes the moon to go through its full cycle 12 times. and that is how original calendars were made but as we now know it takes us 365 and a quarter days to go around the sun so every year the lunar calendar falls 5.25 days behind the real yeah that makes sense why we're into february right now i know and it must change next year it must be again five days earlier we're going backwards i'm sure because it's going to come up in 360 days again. Yeah. So it'll be five days earlier next year. Interesting. And that makes me wonder if it's going to overlap with real New Year's.

1:45:42Sterling K. Brown:It will one day. Yeah. And that's generally one of my criticisms of the astrology is that we're using a birthday that's based on the real time it takes to go around there. Okay. Well, I think one thing you're probably not supposed to do today is criticize the Lunar New Year. Okay. Alright. And And they said, like, well, according to Rachel, you're supposed to, like, like, you're setting the tone so you can, like, buy a treat for yourself or for somebody else. She was like, you can spend money. Oh, good. Yeah. Okay, so get a treat for yourself. So the opposite of what my parents' superstition was for New Year's.

1:46:23Sterling K. Brown:Abundance versus scarcity. Yeah, and Eileen, I like abundance. While we're talking about TV shows, I do want to say, and I make up a strong, I pretty much begged you yesterday. Yes. Which I don't do. I do. I save that card for probably once every couple of years. Well, I say, I'm not just saying this is a good show. I'm saying I'm really need you to watch the show. Yeah. So a night in the seven kingdom. Yes. Which is in the Game of Thrones world. I was reluctant to try. I don't know why. Me too. Me too. So I started as reluctant to try. And then I watched it the first episode. I was like, I don't know.

1:46:55Sterling K. Brown:This is a comedy. Yeah. It's very disorienting. Within five minutes, you see someone shitting. Yeah. like see it see it squirting yeah like the grocery story i sent you the video of exactly that real hershey squirts and i'm like whoa and then it's smaller and now these what's funny is now these are all things i actually love about it it's one character you're following it's a a character story unlike all the other worlds where there's so many characters yeah but i will say but so i'm I'm strongly urging everyone to watch it. And mostly I want you to go to episode three because in my opinion, it gets better and better.

1:47:34Sterling K. Brown:I guess I probably settle into the tone and then there is some plot. There's such good plot in this show. Yeah. It's really good. And wait till you see episode five. Oh, good. Well, we've all seen these battle scenes on game of Thrones and they're done a certain way and they're huge spectacles, but the way they do this, you are so inside the one character's experience of one of these things and it's just an entirely different look at it and it's so good i can't believe how fucking good that's great i'm really enjoying it you told me yesterday and i watched four episodes i'm very grateful and proud of you yes and um there's a little boy on it that is so fucking cute his name is dex dex soul is his middle name.

1:48:17Sterling K. Brown:He's so cute and good and I love him and like sometimes he gets sad and it makes me want to cry. Oh, I don't think I should watch it tonight. Why? Because I'm not supposed to cry today. Okay. Well, our lead character as well, the more the show goes on, I think he looks so much like Robert Redford. It drives me crazy. I can't even stand it. That's not the angle where he looks a ton like Robert Redford, but if you're dead on him, he is an enormous Robert Redford. You are right. Yeah, it's crazy back to our original theory there's only like so many copies of humans i know and then you start seeing the repeats well ding ding ding to our guest today we had a guest on oh yeah our recording yeah yeah yeah okay let's do some facts yeah i'm gonna start with the fact that i i must have told 100 people since we interviewed him i find him to be impossibly charming the soup to not subtractiveness of him is crazy physically the face the body the spirit i agree god is he a catch okay so it was a weird ding ding ding because he talked about water fights water gun fights and water fights and i had just brought this up in your name he said in this neighborhood they would have water fights remember i just asked you yeah i was like did you guys ever do like water fights in your neighborhood like I did.

1:49:40Sterling K. Brown:And you said no is too girly. To baby. Oh, yeah. I've learned to not say girly and say baby. Thank you. I appreciate that because those are different. Yeah, they are. I mean, to boys, they mean the same thing. That's why. Why not just say? Well, that's what I like boys to change because they aren't the same thing. And to think that all girls are babyish. What I mean by that is both things are meant to emasculate the boy. Exactly. Yeah. And that that is very bad for women to call to use girl as a pejorative to a boy. Honey, should we care about babies? Because babies literally go like they are what they are.

1:50:22Sterling K. Brown:They poop their pants. They haven't. Their brains are small. That's not their fault. OK. Black men have lowest life expectancy in the US. Yes. Of any major demographic. group living an average of approximately 69 to 72 years, which is about four to five years less than white men. Oh, this was so cute. He mentioned his kids soccer game. Super cute. But I just wanted to give the backstory that he he asked if he could change the recording time so he could go to his kids soccer game. And we said, no, no, fuck that your career. No, he said, OK, what's the place in Star Trek where you go to live out the next generation?

1:51:00Sterling K. Brown:The Nexus. That was the only side of him we saw that was kind of a lady bone kill no no no let's be realistic no if you're on a dating app profile and the guy's like star trek number one you're like oh no listen be honest I'm being let me talk. OK, now, if you are across from Sterling and he is hot, smart, funny, interesting, great buns and he likes Star Trek. I'm like, oh, yes, that's cool. That's 100 percent true. Now, full honesty, you're looking at there's a picture of two white guys. They're the same looks. One says, I love Star Trek in his bio. And the other one says, I love challengers.

1:52:02Sterling K. Brown:Are they hot? They're the same. That's my whole point. They're the same, but are they hot? That matters. They're right on the border. You wouldn't describe them as hot and you certainly wouldn't say they're not attractive. They're just, they're neutral. I don't think it would be a deterrent. I really don't. Because I actually like when someone has a niche. So Max, Callie's Max, loves sci-fi. And it's unexpected. Yeah. And I think it's so cool. Do we agree that there's a trope about Trekkies or not? Yes, but there is. But I don't think. Did you see the movie with Sam Rockwell and Tim Allen? No, I didn't.

1:52:42Sterling K. Brown:You didn't? It's very famous. They play like versions of Star Trek and they go to a convention. And then they really get taken by aliens and they really are. They have to be Star Trek. I just think it's. Oh, no, I haven't seen that. Galaxy Quest. Galaxy Quest. OK. Great movie. I just think that's a stereotype from movies. Yeah. And no, I think when someone has a niche or something they really like, it's cool. Like you have cars. I know. I know. But I don't think those are comparable niches. Well, to me, they are because I have no interest in cars and I have no interest in Star Trek. Sure. And I actually don't think I like that, you know, a lot about a subject.

1:53:24Sterling K. Brown:I think that's cool. Sure. That part is cool. But I will say cars is a physical endeavor that takes you out of your house and you're either working on them or enhancing them. And then you're out driving them in the world. Like it's a very active hobby. OK. Versus I like to sit in my room and watch Star Trek. That's different. Well, I don't know if they sit in the room and watch it. they might they probably like read i think they like read a lot i'm scared to say this one because i have a lot of i have some close friends that this is their religion but what have you seen like big d it says in the profile live for dnd so i i actually again it just is so dependent on the rest of them because it could we could sound like that it's like we played katan every day for like a year and a half.

1:54:14Sterling K. Brown:That's true. And that is not that different. Probably not. Well, I mean, it's a little, it's way more in depth than Dungeons and Dragons. I know that for a fact. Well, here's the other thing. I feel like there's a world in which I would probably love Dungeons and Dragons. You think so? Well, because it's like, it's a game and you have characters and it's a whole world. And like, I just think some of these interests do signal a personality type that they want to be in another world. And I think they want to be in a world where they will be, this fantasy version of themselves will be really celebrated.

1:54:53Sterling K. Brown:And I think it's okay to say there's a personality type that's attracted to that fantasy. I know, but I just don't know if that comes. Wanting to escape, I think, is universal. True. And everyone just finds their own way to do that. Yeah. And I don't know. I'm probably being old and unfair. Well, I just think it's personal. Look, I mean, I'm probably not going to. I mean, maybe I am, but I'm probably not going to date the most stereotypical what you're what you're thinking about. Trekkies at the convention dressed up. Right. And they greet you with the thing. Yeah, that thing. Yeah. It's also just like they don't want to date me.

1:55:37Sterling K. Brown:a lot of like Trekkie. I'm not being fair. They don't want to date me because I don't even understand their world. I apologize to everyone. I also think I really do. I think I think community is beautiful. Is there any hobby someone have that would be off putting? Yeah. OK, tell me like UFC participating. No, like they love watching UFC and talk. I'm let on the thing. Sure. Trekkie versus Trekkie. I'm picking Trekkie. That makes sense. I'm not. But also like I just want to know do you not filter like do you is there anything that's not yeah red flag or filters things that like i want to this is going to be tricky because i have a lot of friends who love this and people i love so i shouldn't do this but like i think if what's listed in their bio is that they love to hunt uh-huh i'm probably like you're you're probably not for me uh-huh which isn't necessarily fair because i have friends who love to hunt who i would be happy to be married to.

1:56:36Sterling K. Brown:Yeah. So, you know. Yeah, yeah. Oh, was Kristen at NYU in 98? Yes. Yeah. She was a freshie. Yeah. She entered 98, left 2001, which according to her. Yeah. Not the most reliable source. I didn't say it. A friend, you know him too. His boyfriend's mother is Indian. Uh-huh. Oh, yeah. And he's trying to arrange something for one of the sons. And there's apparently some... chat you can be on like this this this group chat and it's all parents who have children from ivy league schools that are now doctors that they're trying to imagine someone was kicked out because they got their md from ucla no yes and i'm like you guys oh my kicked out of the chat how'd you get into the chat that's so embarrassing like for the people who care i just like man you what i think is you really bought into this thing this ivy league yes wow okay you said he was on er that was that's hot really hot and exciting um and so i looked up that episode i hadn't gotten there yet in my rewatch oh season 10 uh episode 13 titled get carter which definitely has to do with noah wiley because he was carter and that was a movie get carter so it's a nod to that it was called get carter i believe so 1971 film what's it about and then maybe remade with 2000 with semester still yes why oh wow is it a basketball movie Vegas mobster.

1:58:23Sterling K. Brown:Isn't there a basket? Coach Carter. Yep. Oh, there's a Coach Carter. Yeah. I missed that one. Okay. Let's see if there was anything else. I don't think there was. Oh, Army Wives. So when I graduated college and was living at home for a year and I had an agent and I was trying to work in Atlanta because that was like all the rage. Like everything's moving to all production. Don't waste your time. Don't even go to LA. All production films here now. So all the acting jobs are coming here. I would say nine out of 10 auditions were for Army Wives. I auditioned so many times for Army Wives. I never booked it.

1:58:59Sterling K. Brown:Not a once. But they kept seeing you. Yeah, they had to. I mean, they're going for like, that's why that whole thing was a ruse, is it was like five and unders, which means five lines are under, is the type of role they were casting out of Georgia. Yeah. Always. Yeah. So, and they wanted local hires for that. Mm-hmm. But I did book Drop Dead Diva. That's my first acting role. Out of Georgia. Yeah. I didn't see Drop Dead Diva. That was a narrative show? It was a show. It was on. Sounds like a reality show. No, it was a real show. And it was on, I think, Lifetime. Okay. That was exciting for me.

1:59:38Sterling K. Brown:I bet. Yeah. Under five. It was under five. Also, you remember notoriously during that time, I auditioned for a fast food commercial and it had to do with chicken. I forget what it was, but they said like, oh, you can bring a friend for this. And then I brought Callie just as like to come. Yeah. And then she booked it. This is the age old. There's a lot of these stories that bounce around. But I was so it was so early for me. That's what happened with Tyree, I believe. Oh. I think he joined his sibling for some other audition and ended up getting parenthood. Wow. Well, and also Kihi Kwan, notoriously.

2:00:18Sterling K. Brown:Kihi Kwan, yes. He was coaching his brother. Yeah. And got cast. But it was, that was the time where I thought every audition was going to make or break my entire career. Oh, yeah. How can you not? So for me, and like, because also they weren't very frequent. Yeah, right. Once every couple months, maybe. And so, oh, man, was that a tough blow. And I had to, you know, can you connect us with her? like oh my god but guess what we're still friends that's it okay were there any facts yeah it said so many mainly the one about you auditioned for hey mainly my own edification mainly the life expectancy Okay.

2:01:17Sterling K. Brown:Nexus, Star Trek Generation. Right. Kristen's NYU. Okay. ER. You're right. That was chock full of facts. Water fights. I apologize. I apologize. It was chock full. My bad. I'm not doing well with the Lunar New Year. You got to get some red on. All right. I'm going to put some red on for my lunch date with Belty. Okay. All right. Love you. Love you. Love you.

2:01:46Thank you.