Steve Aoki

24:21And what one feels natural to me? Which one will I be accepted in? Most of the time it's sports. Yeah, right. If you're not a jock, you're like, all right. I tried the sports. I tried all that. It wasn't working. And then it's always peers. Peers have so much influence. Yes. So when I went with these kids to a show, we're skating and going to shows. That's what we did. That was my life. Yeah. And then you see other kids, like they're your age and they're like screaming around and like thrashing guitars and they're like not on a stage. They're right here. They also have all been shit on in school.

24:54So there's like a beautiful bonding and acceptance. And they're singing about it. Yes. I relate to all this stuff. Yes. I am that same kid up there. you're like the barrier of entry to be that kid is actually right there and they're not that good that's another thing i try to tell yes the great thing about punk music is like you go to a show and you're like i don't know i think in a few months i'd be able to play drums as good as this guy that's what i did exactly that's why i love punk because then i was like i don't know how to sing i don't know how to play any instruments my friends that we were going we're like we don't know let's just figure it out yeah we know a guy knows how to play drums that's the most important guy you need because that's the most technically skilled thing that you need to have as a drummer that knows how to keep a beat time yeah yeah and we found a drummer and hey we'll bring him to the shows and get him inspired I'm like can we try to do this in your garage yeah and he lived off the street for me and then I would just go there after school every day and practice and learn how to play bass guitar drums and I was like singing I didn't know how to sing I was like we're just fucking around.

25:57That was the start of my music journey. And it's like this rough and tumble, like you could just show up. Yeah, yeah. Wake up out of bed and whatever, and then just do it. That's the cool thing. To care would be uncool. You're buffeted from any failure. It's such a great entry point for creativity. It allows you to feel like you can become something. And then when I did that with my friends, we were like messing around and we're like playing in living rooms, which was a start. Then everything opened up. This idea like, I think I can do it all. whatever is exciting to me. Then we started writing in a zine.

26:30We'd go out with my friends, the Kinkos, making a little poetry and cutting up a little fun, like, you know, ransom note letters and making poetry out of them, making zines and passing out to friends and silk-treating T-shirts. Like everything was like, oh, this is all doable. We could actually make a business doing that kind of stuff. Yeah, I think when people that were in that culture, they just see a mosh pit, they're like, oh, all these kids are crazy. But it's like, yes, everyone did zines. We all made collages. Wait, sorry, what's a zine? It's like a handmade magazine. that you're making at kinko's you're like yeah you're going to the spot so like you're figuring out how to rip off kinko's yeah i figured that out i don't know if you remember like they had those big rectangular blocks you stick in there and then we make a copy it's like one two three right yeah yeah so you go you make all your copies right so you do like a thousand copies a lot of money yeah a few cents a copy then you take that you go to the bathroom with it you smash it it goes to like a million then you go to the front your friend takes like a a thousand copies runs out to the store.

27:28It's like, I only made like 10 copies. I was doing zines all the way through college. We had a friend, my roommate, he worked there. So he's, I would just bring it to him. He's like, okay, here's like five cents. We also all had this little device that you would put on a payphone so you could get free calls. That was like everyone in the punk rock world in Detroit had these. When you drop a quarter in there, it makes a digital noise. And that's actually what puts the credit on the phone. So we all had these little things from Radio Shack and you'd pick up the thing and you'd like Put like$3 worth of coins on it.

27:58Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. All kinds of like mildly, gently illegal stuff happening. It's so fun. Yeah. Another fun illegal activity I did when I was a kid was sneaking in movie theaters. Sure. We did all do that. That was always fun. Yeah. I was always scared. That was like one of my favorite. Well, you had multiplexes in Newport, so you could probably go in and bang out six movies. We've loved doing that. The way I do it, I don't know if you could talk about this, but it's got a whole wholesome. It is. Yeah. But you go in. First of all, in order to get it, you say like, oh, I left my wallet inside the theater.

28:33So they let you in. You go in the theater. Then you go through the back. I had a belt or a shoe. Put the shoe in through the exit door. Leave the door open. Then you have to go down a whole flight of stairs. This is at Edward Cinemas in Triangle Square. And then you go to the bottom where it opens out to the street. And then you let in like six of your friends. Oh, perfect. And then they go up. Then you go out to the front and say, got my wallet, thank you. And then you go around and then you go around the back. And then once you're in and you can watch like however many movies. Just keep it going.

29:04Okay, wow. Yeah, let it ride. We would just buy one ticket and then see like eight. We did pay for one movie. For one. Buy one, get eight free. That would be the solution if you didn't want to pay. Yeah, exactly. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. If you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking what the warning light means before pulling out of your driveway. You absolutely convinced yourself it was probably just a sensor thing right up until you were standing on the side of the road waiting for a tow. Yeah, checking first is the right move.

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31:59So you must have done pretty good in high school because you got into UCSB. I'm surprised, to be honest, I got in. I applied to like every UC school. I got rejected to every school. You didn't get accepted at UC Santa Cruz? Nope. My GPO is 3.1. That's pretty good. For UC? Well, not for UC, but in general. UC Santa Barbara, I don't think you can get in now unless you're 4.0 plus plus. Yeah. So I was like, I got in. I think they had to let me into one of the UC schools. They were like, we got out. I just got lucky. They all talk. Just for the listener, I would say, I can imagine if you're a listener in Milwaukee right now, you're like, They wanted diversity and they wanted you in there.

32:41But you should know in 95, already all the UCs are already predominantly Asian. They didn't need Asians. That's true. In 95. That's still a question in my head. Like, how did I get in? I think it's like it has to be because they had to let me into one UC school because I'm from California. Yeah. And they had preferential treatment to California residents. You're a little weighted. Yeah. I think that's part of it. Because I went to UCLA in 98, and at that time it was 39 % Asian and 31 % white. And there's no way they needed you. Yeah, it's not like they needed affirmative action for Asians. Yeah, I don't think that was the case.

33:16Yeah, I did write in my newspaper thing. I was like, I think affirmative action helped me get into school. But then I was like, but there's so many Asians here. Yeah, I don't think. So here's where you and I could have potentially met in real life, which is I graduated high school in 93. I went on a road trip for a year with my best friend and we ended up in Isla Vista for like four months, just living in people's dorm rooms and on Del Playa at some friends' house, just couch surfing for months. The most mind blowing place imaginable if you're from Detroit. It's like this college is on an ocean.

33:49The first party we went to on our first night there was like these dudes living on a cliff with the ocean in the backyard. An infamous Isla Vista for these insane parties, right? Halloween is just this enormous party. Tens of thousands of people come. It's a wild, exciting place. I then went back to Detroit and then I moved to Santa Barbara in 95 when you started at UCSB. Wow. But I was living downtown on Bass Street, like right next to the state. Yeah. But I would go to IV occasionally to get hammered. Yeah, of course. You have to like, there's a house party at every other house. When they designed Isla Vista, I don't think they realize what was coming yeah what kind of chaos yeah yeah yeah you put a bunch of 18 year old kids in a bunch of houses on the ocean yeah it's almost like anarchy you do what you want yeah they're throwing parties every night i didn't want to leave actually yeah i'm sure so when i graduated in 2000 i was so embedded in that little world it's kind of a king of a castle You start this record label.

34:49Yeah. So I started my label, but really that was a byproduct of being in this hardcore punk world. We would just put on shows in my living room, which was the size of this room here. And you were in student housing? So the first year I was in student housing. And then the next year I lived in a vegan co-op, typical for a straight edge hardcore kid. Okay. I'm vegan. And you're not drinking. Yeah. That's another interesting dichotomy because I'm living in Alavista with the party capital. One of the biggest party schools because of Isla Vista in the United States. And I'm straight edge, like no drugs, no drinking.

35:22But there's a really small but strong and present trans hardcore scene in Isla Vista, Santa Barbara that the whole hardcore community knew about. Oh, wow. Okay. Mainly because of this label zine distribution company called Ebullition Heart Attack. They're publishing their zine from there. And they had a record label that was putting out all of those kinds of bands from there. So when I went to school there, I was more excited to be close to this label than to be going to school at UCSB. Actually, that was the most excited kid in me. I was like, I want to intern for them. And I ended up writing for the zine for seven years.

35:56Wow. Everything for free. And you would never wish to get paid. No. You care so deeply about this. Yeah. And I just wanted to contribute, like helping put on the shows and writing reviews for the bands and eventually starting my label, which requires no capital, by the way. That's the interesting thing. Yeah. Most people think. It's called Dim Mac? Yeah, Dim Mac. And how is that related to Bruce Lee? I know it's a nod somehow. Yeah. When I was coming up with this label idea, I'm like, what is that thing that represents me in a symbolic way that's cool? I love Bruce Lee. So I was like, oh, Dim Mac is a Chinese death touch.

36:33It's like a martial art move where you touch someone. It's like a mysterious thing. And they can die like two days later sometimes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Bruce Lee was like known to harness it. And he mysteriously died of a brain hemorrhage. So some may say he was killed by it. So I was like, there's like that mystery. I'm like, that's cool. They all can lock records. I love it. By the way, did you ever buckle? Because I'll just tell you, my best friend Aaron and I, we lived in a punk house. This band Current that was huge in Detroit. I love Current. You know Current? I love Current.

37:00My cousin Justin was the bass player. I love Current. Yeah, the greatest. Wow, Council Records? Yeah, Council Records. I love Council Records. Ottawa. Jihad. Yes. That was my world. That's the real screamo emo. Yes. Pre emo. Yeah. Because people, when they think about emo, they think about, you know. The produced emo. Yeah. Sunny Day Real Estate. Yeah. Yeah. But like the ordination of Aaron. I don't know if you know. Oh, yep. Saw them play many times. All these bands stayed at our house. So we're in Detroit in Dearborn and I'm living with half the band. I love all those bands. Yeah. They're the greatest, right?

37:35I never got to see them. Jawbreaker. I love Jawbreaker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. We could geek out forever. We could go down a music tangent. Yeah, Shudder to Think. Shudder to Think. Oh, I love Shudder to Think. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, at some point, I would love for you to see my vinyl question. Oh, yeah, I would love to see it. Thanks for that. You have an hard time going to sleep. That's very sweet. I'd love to invite you both to my house. Okay. I pick up these records of Constantine Zancati and that era. I love it. Aaron and I move into this house. Half the band lives there. Bands are sleeping at our house every single weekend because they're in town playing shows.

38:10So just like every great band. And Aaron and I are drinking 40s and eating steaks. And everyone else is a straight edge and vegan. But over time, we fucked them up and they started drinking. So I think we won. So I'm wondering, did you ever buckle? And when did you start drinking? Because that was a big deal back then. Oh, it was. So I was straight edge all the way until about 2002. Oh, wow. Last year, before I left Santa Barbara, I was living in another vegan co-op called Bico Co-op. And we would put on shows there. This is post-pickle patch where I had 400 bands play in my little apartment there.

38:42So anyways, I moved to that house because I got kicked out of that apartment. Oh, shockingly. Yeah, yeah. This band came in town that I was signed on my label called Kill Sadie. They're from Minnesota. Anyways, they came over and then like I was really close with them. And those boys got me into drinking. Sure, sure. I mean, at that point, I'm like, why am I straight ahead? Yeah, exactly. I'm 21 now. 22 or whatever age I was. I'm like 22. I'm like, what am I doing? questioning everything. I'm not putting X's on my hands. I'm not going to hardcore shows really anymore. I'm like, okay, let's do this.

39:14Well, you see how fun it is. Yeah, I remember when it was drinking, they're all my friends. That's like, you know, you have the nice bonding. Yeah. Drinking is a bonding thing. Sure is. It's the most important part. I felt the bond. This is fun. Yeah, I love these guys. Why is straight out, is it like you want to keep your clarity? What is it? Like, why? My understanding of it is basically you have like the godfather of all of this the michael jackson of punk is ian mckay who had minor threat absolutely discord records yeah discord records which put out all the greatest punk bands all dc they were the first like they had real good musicianship you would have heard of fugazi that was his next band fugazi yeah and so he was very vocally progressive he was like into women's rights he was into living a clean life and he proselytized and i think it all fell from him no yeah it really did so like in the 80s when minor threat was around this in the early 80s punk music was the opposite it was skinheads and racist yeah there's a lot of that but there's a lot of nihilism like i don't care i'm gonna get drunk i'm gonna do lots of drugs and just say fuck everyone and there's like this negative energy of like fuck the world yeah which is all british that's all comes from yeah it's like kind of like really angry energy and then is like hey hey, we could be punk and rebellious against things that are controlling us, but let's have this attitude of the opposite.

40:39Unfuck the world. Yeah. Okay, I like that. Positive mental attitude. Help people at shows. Someone falls down, help them up. Community. Yeah, exactly. Then it's like, oh, you could be punk. You could scream. You could go to the shows, but you could actually go, I live a drug-free life. I don't drink. I don't have sex. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That feels extreme. Yeah, yeah. you know with everything there's like the extremes yes and then there's a lot of straight age people that are really into Hare Krishna you know like Shelter best merch ever still have a ton of it and I love those bands too yeah and I was like oh I don't even know what Hare Krishna was but like because of the bands I was like you like learn about yeah like I'm into it yeah wow cool and that leads all the way to Jack Antonoff a couple weeks ago who we had which is like Ben he's doing shows he's eight years younger than us or 10 years every show has to have a philanthropic components.

41:29So it's like, you know, there's a food drive at everyone's like, he started a thing that really just kind of carried on even to when Jack was doing it. It was really cool. Okay. So you leave Santa Barbara, thank God you're drinking now. And then you go to LA. Yeah. So I moved to LA. There was a fork in the road because I was super into academia. Yeah. You double majored sociology and women's studies. Yeah, that's right. So when you're a sociology, women's studies major, it's all critical writing and thinking. And then once you get to that fifth year, I was like in school for five years. I just didn't want to leave school.

41:59And you started early. This is perfect. You actually finished right on time. True. Yeah, yeah, it's true. I kept going. I'm like, how do I stay in it? Because now I found my groove. Now I'm hanging with the professors. Now I like want to get professors respect and have them talk to me like a colleague. Yeah, I'm like, okay, now I'm reading the text. I'm having real thoughtful conversations. And those thoughtful conversations are already being had at these hardcore shows. So there's a lot of cross and we're all reading books and talking. It was just cool to be intellectual, to talk about stuff.

42:33So I was like, this is great. This is aligning with my academia. And then I was like, okay, well, I guess maybe I'll consider staying in academia. I sent off for graduate and PhD programs. I accepted the two. And then that's when I had to make a decision because I was like, okay, do I go down this road? Do I follow music? Wow. At the time, my band and my bands, I mean, we were playing to like 30 people. It was fun, but it wasn't like sustainable. And then I got a demo from a band that was like interested to get signed or have me release their music. Yeah. The singer of the band played at the Pickle Patch, which was my apartment.

43:09She was in this really cool band called Discount. Don't know Discount. Yeah, Discount was from No Idea Records from Florida. I was like obsessed with Discount. She was on tour with Hot Water Music. It was Discount, Hot Water Music, and another band. And she's like, I'm in this new band called The Kills. It's a rock and roll thing. I couldn't believe what I heard on that demo. And I was more like, wow, she just asked me to put out this record? Yeah. I'm just a little guy. But I put out some other bands that kind of showed proof of concept. So I was like, you know what? Because she gave me the co-sign and I'm so inspired by her, I'm just going to do the music thing.

43:42Wow. I think this is what I need to do. And The Kills was probably your first really successful? It was the second. Okay. Or potentially the third. The first would be Plains of the Staken for Stars. It was like Dimock 7. And then this band called Pretty Girls Make Graves from Seattle, which was one of the members of Kill Sadie that got me drunk. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah. That band is the reason why Allison from The Kills was like, hey, I saw your success with Pretty Girls. Would you consider putting out this EP? And I'm like, yes, yes, yes, exclamation point, exclamation point. I wish I could find this letter because back then there was like handwritten letters.

44:18So it's just an interesting time. 2002. And then I moved to LA. I said, I'm just going to do the label. I'll do the academic route maybe later in life. It can be there waiting for me. Yeah. Yeah. You could resume that. Yeah. So then I moved to LA and then I was like, well, it's definitely the best place for me to start Dimock. This is the music hub of America. I mean, in my mind. Well, you got Capitol Records, you got Warner Brothers. I mean, you really, historically, this is where all the big labels are. Yeah. And then I moved to LA and then I I already got hit up by major labels. Smart major label A &R scouts are always looking for other ones in the underground that are scouts, which are indie labels.

44:54Okay, so they're tracking all of them. Yeah, they want to incubate their bands with indie labels. I'm like, free dinners, free lunches? I'm in. And so I started hanging out with Capital Group and Interscope and all the different labels. And I was trying to get a swing of things in LA. It's already kind of like buzzing. And then the next band, once I moved to LA, this was even before I was really DJing. So probably coincidentally at the same time, but I was just kind of just playing it here and there, was a band called Block Party from England. Oh, yeah. And once again, the same kind of thing happened with Alison from The Kills.

45:28The manager of Block Party was like, we saw you doing some really great work with The Kills. We would love for you to consider releasing our music. And Block Party is way more electronic. Yeah, there are British indie rock 2000s, like Franz Ferdinand, Pre-Arctic Monkeys, that kind of British rock invasion that was happening in the US. Okay. But they're one of the earlier ones because we got their first demo in 2003. And that's right when I started DJing. All right. So how do we start DJing? You get some equipment because you're bored and you start fucking with it? Yeah. So when I moved to LA, I was doing the label full on.

45:59When I thought of turntables, I had a record player. Right, right. People don't realize there's two different things. Yeah. Yeah. Turntables are the ones you like go backwards and forwards and scrap. You need a techniques with magnetic drive. A record player, boom, you put the needle down and you play a full side. Go make a cocktail. I had a record player because that's how I listen to music. I had a pretty sick vinyl collection. And when I moved to LA, there's this bartender that became my friend. He was tatted. He was cool. And he definitely welcomed me to LA. I remember he's like, I've seen your band.

46:30I was in a band called Esperanza as well. Another punk band. I used to play guitar. And it's like, I saw your band play. had headline records but the word on the street is you have the sickest vinyl collection which i do yeah i definitely aforementioned vinyl collection yeah i'll tell you why i have it i'm a collector so i've been collecting since i was a kid and it's not like i had a lot of records but i always was a completionist i wanted all the revelation i want all the discord i want all like the labels i followed but the thing is i'm also a hoarder and i'm a known collector in college so when my friends would leave college.

47:01I remember Koji Boutonishi, he used to be in Strictly Ballrooms, this other band. He left. He's like, I don't know what to do with these records. I'm like, give them to me. So you are a dumping ground for other people's collections. Yeah. I'm like, you could take them back whenever. I will just be a great, you know, they're like, yo, Steve will take all your records. It's not like it's like a valuable thing, like expensive thing. It's just heavy. It's a lot of space. So I just became like the dumping ground of vinyl and I just amassed this insane collection. I imagine your apartment being no room to walk.

47:34Oh my God, it was. It was like that. Just milk crates everywhere. Yeah. And so my friend, the bartender of Three of Clubs, he's like, come to Three of Clubs and bring your records. I'll show you how to DJ. It's very simple and play whatever you want. And I'm like, I could play hardcore. Yeah. Wow. This is amazing. Let me get this straight. Me and the bartender will be happy and all the other people will hate it? I'm in. He had a night called Sides and you just play whole sides of records. You just sit there and you play whatever you want. I was a radio DJ at KCSB. I was K-Juice, which is like the platform for just the library and for the dorms.

48:10I didn't make it to KCSB status. I was never good enough. But I was like, oh, this is cool. I get to play records for 30 people drinking beers and me and my friend. I was like, this is awesome. So I started going there and playing. And then he's like, hey, you know, we should just DJ together. and I'm like yeah I'm down and we'll call ourselves the crybabies because he was always thinking of ideas I mean Cali DeWitt if you look him up he's got an incredible history of LA he ran with the Red Hot Chili Peppers and then he started his own record label and now he has an incredible fashion line oh really follow oh wow yeah and he designed for Kanye West's Yeezy collection like he's just a well-known curator creative director street kid just awesome burst of creative energy and I didn't end up DJing with him ever.

48:56But my first gig, I have to find the flyer, was under DJ Cry. No one really knows this. It wasn't Steve Aoki and it wasn't Kid Millionaire, which I later used as a name. It was DJ Cry. How were you spelling cry? C-R-Y. Okay. The conventional Y. Yeah. And I opened for my friend, this guy, Sam Spiegel, who was a producer. I was always in his studio and he was a big part of my early part of my career. He let me open and stuff like that. When do you get bit by the electronic bug? So this was like 2002 era. Right when I moved to LA, I was starting to DJ a little bit. There was a record by James Murphy's LCD sound system.

49:36He dropped this record called Losing My Edge. It was 118 beats per minute. And it was this loop of a beat and him talking over the beat. And he's just talking about the history of dance music. It was hypnotic. When I got that record, I went to Amoeba or wherever I did. get that record i'd play it and that was when i was like wow i could produce something like this it's simple enough it's hypnotic and it grooves and you stay on track with it for a long time beats have the same appeal that punk did in that okay i get an 808 or i get these three pieces of equipment i don't have to know how to read music if i have rhythm it's very again accessible and even like the hip-hop revolution is like oh i don't need expensive instruments i have these albums they already have the music on it it's all very diy it's kind of weirdly similar yeah i remember the beat because the beats like do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do yeah very 70s and the bass line just stays there the whole time and it grows with the vocal and it gets louder with the live drums and stuff but i'm like fuck i think i could do this and then And I was like, okay, I went on Craigslist and I got this guy that can teach me Pro Tools.

50:52I was like, I love the Neptunes. I loved that world of music. And I was like, I kind of want to do that. You know, I was kind of figuring out what I wanted to do. You know, I'm a hardcore punk kid, but I love pop music as well. My sister, Devin. She was in Fast and Furious. Yeah, she was Suki in Fast and Furious. Very attractive. And she had a successful modeling career, which led her into some movies. And it opened her up into music. So I was going with her in the studio when she was doing more of an R &B thing. And I was trying to learn to do a very quick sample beats and sounds to make hip hop beats for my sister, really.

51:29That's adorable. And then I heard LCD sound system losing my edge. And then that's when I was like, I'm the artist now. Yeah, this is where my heart is going. I want to go faster. I don't want to go 90 to 100 BPM. I want to go 118 to 130 BPM. I want to start playing this out. Yeah. So I have to give a lot to the LCD sound system. James Murphy, what he was doing in New York at the time in the early 2000s and the party scene. You know what I was doing with Dim Mock at the party scene in L.A. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a wonderful. Yes, that was wonderful. I was going back and forth. I love it. So we took more time at the beginning, which I love.

52:05That's my favorite. So we are going to have to kind of fast forward a tiny bit. And let me on. So whatever I knew about hardcore, I know nothing about electronic and the dance world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just quickly remixes. You kind of get known for remixes first, right? Right, right, right. So you're just kind of mashing up different things. Remixes or remixing is the best way. And this is why I tell every young producer or someone who wants to start producing or that someone wants to become a DJ or wants to get into the world, start with remixes. Because now there's technology that you don't need to ask for the stems.

52:41Let's say you listen to a track. A stem would be like bass, guitar. Isolated instruments. Oh, sure. Yeah, exactly. isolated vocals exactly and you need the stems in order to remix you know or change production back then you need the stems luckily for me i had my label and i had the stems for the bands on dim muck so my very first remix happened to be block party because i had the stems when i was remixing helicopter i also called my friend who was on tour with mia at the time to also remix the other side of the 12 inch because there was no digital back then. You would press the 12 inch and that's how people would hear this.

53:18He was also throwing a cool party and I was throwing my LA party. So it's interesting because all around the world, there was these little pubs of communities growing where we're playing indie, electronic, underground hip hop. And we have this cool little thing happening. I was doing in LA, he was doing in Philadelphia, someone's doing London, Japan. And that's where we would end up. If I did a show, I would probably play at these underground little hipster parties. So he did the other side. I did the other side with my friend, Blake Miller, from Beer Science. It was his first remix. And now he's a very well-known DJ and people know him as Diplo.

53:52Another ding, ding, ding. He was at the fight. I was at Saturday and I was seated three seats next to us. And I love his body. So let's just be clear. I love his physique, but he was up and down a lot. We had to get up and let Diplo in and out a lot. And that was my first sighting of Diplo. Oh, and you said it was tight in there. It was tight. I was sitting next to a linebacker and then Diplo was very social. So he was going back and forth. But again, a great physique, so I didn't hate seeing his biceps and stuff. Yeah, he does work out a lot. It's fun to go back in time and see who's still in the game, you know, and Wes is still crushing it.

54:22So it's good to see that. When do you start going on these massive tours and when do you start getting the big audience? I mean, I know by 2012, you're the highest grossing dance artist in North America. I know by 2010, you've recorded with Will.i.am now. When do you make that big leap to where you have an audience? 2007 was a pivotal year for me. That was the first time I played Coachella. Oh, okay. Yeah, so that was big. It was a horrible show. Okay. Sometimes they go bad. Yeah, it was nerve-wracking. It's like the kind of thing you just want to throw up after a set because it was so bad. Just because it went wrong or people didn't like it?

54:57Many times. Technical difficulties or you just weren't on your game? I wasn't on my game. I was nervous. The wind blew the needle off the record. The wind seems to be an issue at Coachella. They don't tell you about the wind. The wind blew the needle and went. Oh, fuck. And then the music stops. I'm like, sorry. There's a crowd going, who are you? Like, I don't even know who you are. And you suck. I'm on four hits of E and now I'm miserable. How did you make that happen? They still booked me again. I was surprised. But by 2007, I had the most insane party in L.A. We had Lady Gaga's first show.

55:31We had a lot of pop artists for a show. A lot of the underground hip hop, like Cuddy's first show. Kanye was rolling through at the time. What venue were you hosting this at? It was Cinespace right on Hollywood Boulevard, which is very small. But we had the best underground shows. And then at the same time, I'd formed another allegiance with one of my best friends at the time, DJ AM. And we had another party. I was curious. I was friends with Adam as well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sweet. So we were like running LA's hipster, underground rock, electronic, hip hop. Anyone that was about to blow up, they had to play at one of these Denmark parties.

56:08I was just getting booked because of that. Not necessarily because of my songs. I only had a few songs. I was like the guy that had the cool scene. Like your dad. Yes. I mean, it all circles bad. It's similar and different. Yeah. And then 2007, I mean, I think I was already doing like 300 shows. To how big of audiences at that time? I don't know, a thousand, maybe less. I don't know. It wasn't like crazy, but I was getting paid like 500 bucks. So it's easy to like spend 500 bucks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially if there's a record store in that town. Yeah. And I was playing everywhere. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

56:55I was exposed to this world a little bit through Adam, DJ AM, and knowing what he was making on a weekend to fly two cities and play two cities in one weekend. And it was astronomical. If you're making 40 grand in a weekend, you're king. He was making 20 to 30 grand, turning him down sometimes because he's getting that consistently. And I'm getting like maybe$1 ,000. But I'm happy with$1 ,000. You're playing music. I was at one point making$50 and a bar tab a few years before that. Now I'm making like$500 to$1 ,500. And then sometimes on like the privates, you get like$5 ,000. This is crazy. And you're probably thinking the whole time, this has got to be the ceiling.

57:40Yes. Right? Like, oh my God. I'm like, I just need$5 ,000. Yes, yes, yes. I remember like in 2007, I got booked in the Philippines and they had billboards up of me everywhere. They gave me like five grand. At that time, I'm getting like$500,$800 at my own party and sometimes a little bit more,$1 ,500,$2 ,000. I'm getting$5 ,000 in the Philippines. And this movie wanted to book me to be a DJ. It was like a scene where I was like a slave DJ in this guy's office. Okay. It was Tropic Thunder. No! So I didn't know because they don't say the movie title. They don't say who's going to be in the movie.

58:17I have the script. It says DJ Aoki on every, you know, because it's like actual physical scripts. They're all watermarked. Yeah. It was Todd Phillips. He was the one, I think it was, still directed it. Yeah, yeah. So they're like, okay, hey, we want you to be the slave DJ for the scene with Tom Cruise where he plays Get Low. Yeah, yeah. he plays the iPod thank god he didn't have to book another DJ I was like when I saw that he didn't book another DJ and use the iPod I was like yes they didn't book another but anyways I had this Philippines offer and I couldn't say no to the Philippines offer so I passed on the movie to this day I'm like I wish it's like you know I wish moments I wish I made it in that movie because that would have been so epic to be part of like one of the funniest movies at that time but you had to say yes to this Yeah, because it's a free thing.

59:02It's like you get$1 ,000. It's not like about the money. It's about just being in it. You couldn't pass up my brand. You couldn't pass up this year's career. So fast forward to 2012, five years after that, you're the highest gross. Now you're making millions of dollars, DJ. Yeah. It gets pretty crazy, right? Imagine some of these festivals you're going to are astronomical. Yeah. The other thing that's interesting is that I did become the most traveled musician in a calendar year on the planet. So I was touring the most. I didn't realize that I was. But what got me there was being in the punk bands.

59:34Right. You're just so used to. When you're in a punk band, first of all, like every single tour I was on, I toured the U.S. 14 times by the time I was 21. We never stayed in a hotel. Right, right, right. You're at the other band's house. Yeah. You just stay in like friends' houses or you sleep in the van or you just figure it out. But you never stay in a hotel. So when I started staying in hotels, I was like, I get a hotel? Yeah, yeah. This is crazy. I'll play for free. Yeah, yeah. What are you guys talking about? I get like a car to pick me off. This is crazy. Touring, you get that boot camp of being in a band.

1:00:07Yeah. And you go from touring alone. Up until 2011, I didn't tour with anyone. I was touring alone. And I was happy to fly eco and middle backseat. I was like, this is better than being in a band with four sweaty guys. Yeah. Smelly. We haven't showered in two weeks. A bunch of vegans. Fucking eating too many beans. Smartier. Yeah. Touring was a cinch for me at that point. So 2012, you put out Wonderland, and that's your first solo album. I'm just thrilled I learned this today. I cannot believe you had John Duncan, the guitarist for Exploited, on this album. That's impossible. I saw Exploited when I was 11 years old with my brother.

1:00:44I was fucking terrified. It was the scariest event of my childhood. When I think of Exploited, I always think about the cover with the spiked mohawk. Yeah, I wear that shirt all the time. I still have it. It's that every butt patch of every punk. Yeah, he was iconic. That was cool to have that because I wanted to have some echoes from the punk and hardcore world. And you got nominated for a Grammy for that album. Yeah, I did. Have you been able to look back, obviously, 2012 to get that honor, that distinction of being the highest grossing DJ? That's a moment. But being at the Grammys from where you started, were you able to be there and be present and accept that that really had happened?

1:01:21Yes. The two times that I've been nominated, I went to the Grammys. And it's definitely that moment. I'm like, is this really happening to me? You're a shithead for Mila Vista. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, this doesn't make sense. How did I get here? And it was everything we were against. And all of a sudden you're there. It's so true. It's so interesting. Yeah, to try to integrate that. Like, oh, I'm at the place I made fun of and guess what? I like it here. Yeah, yeah. It's like, how did I get here? I'm not supposed to be here. Yeah. You know, it's been a mix up. It's a mix up. Like there's something not supposed to happen.

1:01:55Definitely felt that way for sure. Yeah. I still feel that way sometimes. I'm like, how am I even here? And I'm just doing what I love to do. It is hard work when you're doing the work. Yeah. But when you're on stage and you're having the best time of your life, it's not hard work. And you're like, wait, I'm getting paid for this. Yeah, this is crazy. Now, when you play shows, how many people are there? Well, it depends. So like the festivals, like for example, EDC, I just played last weekend. Okay. Where's that? It's in Las Vegas. So that is the largest, I think it's the largest festival in the world.

1:02:27200 ,000 now a day. Wow. Three days, 600 ,000 people. Wow. Oh my gosh. So when you're in the pit and you're looking out, how many people are physically right there? Tens of thousands of people? I would say minimum like 60 to 80 ,000. My God. But it's like so massive. At some point you don't know. It's just a sea of people. You're not sure if it's 100 or 40. Yeah, anything beyond probably 30 ,000. All you're looking at is like just the flagpoles of signs. Because it's just like a lot of heads, a lot of little flashing lights and flagpoles of signs. It's like far as you can possibly see. And you do a bunch of crazy shit at your shows, or at least you used to, right?

1:03:06Yeah, I've toned it down a lot. You have, because you're getting older. He said don't bring that up. Acrobatic crowd work, surfing stunts, throwing cake at fans. Cakes are still present Oh they are Yeah yeah I had to get an arm surgery At one point But yeah the cakes Are definitely For people that don't Understand it Yeah it is a signature How did that start? It's funny that you asked That I just posted On my Instagram The first cake video Oh That I had done And that was back in 2011 You just picked up A piece of cake And threw it? Well no it does require I had to go to the bakery And like decorate the cake Oh it's a thing Okay I got a video I'm gonna film this I think this will be a funny, cool idea.

1:03:48I have no idea what to expect. This is going to be confusing to a lot of people. Maybe no one's going to get caked and I'm just going to be holding the cake going, what the hell do I do with this thing? So there's a lot of those questions that arose in the beginning. But now when you do it consistently and you post it up and you're like, that's what this guy does. I'm going to show up and I want to get cake because it's my birthday. Right. Birthday. Benny Hanna. Oh my God. We just repeat. We're just repeats of our parents. Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, you have a real run with Wonderland getting nominated.

1:04:21Then between 2011-14, now you're Seth's getting licensed. You're like in the Scion commercials, Budweiser. You're in Step Up, All In The Movie. You and Diplo have a song in 22 Jump Street. I mean, look, I don't know DJs and I know your name. You become ubiquitous and one of the titans of this space. It's a very drug-heavy space. It is, yeah. Yeah. How have you navigated that aspect of it? Well, the straight edge lifestyle, it did rub off as we talked about, but I never did drugs. You never got. I never did coke. I never did meth or heroin. Just some MDMA when appropriate. No MDMA. As a DJ. Yeah.

1:04:59Because most of the audience is on MDMA. Yeah. No MDMA, no acid, no hallucinogenics. Before I was straight edge, I tried one drug and that was acid. Oh, that's not a great star drug. Oh my God. I did it like by myself trying to be like ballsy. And then I realized I was like, I can't get out of this. How do I get out of this? I'm stuck. It's going to be forever. That scared me away from all drugs. That can take you out. Make your life more. That took me out. I was like, I will never touch this again. And still, I never did. Now I'm like in this place. If it has a healing or it's like a longevity.

1:05:34That might go pollen approach. If there's like some benefit that I could be more creative or something, Then I can baby step towards something. So I'm curious. Yeah. You're kind of like Machine Gun Kelly in that he's a volcano of things he is interested in and starts like you had or have an e-sports company. You're into gaming. You're in different video games. Right when e-sports was taking off in mid 2010, 16, 17. Anytime I have this interest or curiosity, then it leads me down into a space. And then, yeah, I want to figure out, like, how do I get myself involved, monetize or to help provide another mirror into this world?

1:06:13Yeah, you want to be a part of it. What year did your dad die? In 2008. Oh, bummer. Yeah, he missed a lot of this stuff that I wanted to. I wonder what the moment would have been if he, A, would have been able to say, like, holy smokes, I think you're more successful than I was. He would never, he would never, he would never say that. If he would say it, could he say it? Would he be proud or would he have that terrible dad thing where it's like they can't be surpassed by their son? Actually, you know what? One of the most important things he said to me before he died was, I don't have to worry about you anymore.

1:06:45That was big for me. The subtext is, I'm proud of you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he didn't overly say anything. Not a lot of I love yous and stuff. No. No. Yeah. Not really. Not his jam. But he was relieved. Yeah. That's him saying, I'm relieved. You've done it. Yeah. That's why, like, I was always thinking, like, how do I get him to say that? Yeah. Yeah, you're going to have to win an offshore race boat race. I mean, I do have the adrenaline junkie and that spirit of chasing the edge. Dude, you guys are very similar in a lot of ways. You're just like the modern version. You're not starting a porno mag or having three babies on the same weekend.

1:07:27Well, luckily, he was in the castle culture. I mean, he wouldn't have made it. Yeah, he wouldn't have made it. Okay, my last question is, you had a baby in July? I did. Yeah, a boy? Rocky. His name's Rocky. Oh! Oh, yes! Fuck yeah. He's back. Can't wait to take him to Benny Hanover's birthday. Oh my God, how fun! Yeah. When you think about the future, obviously, I don't even need to ask. I'm sure you're just fucking loving. It's so fun, right? Having a little kid. Yeah, because he's that age now where he's laughing a lot. He's alert. He's not aloof. He's not walking yet, so I'm not sure what that'll be.

1:08:06He's crawling, so it's easier to control. Yeah. Now, there's a very rough phase from when they learn how to walk to they actually get good at walking. They just want to walk everywhere. Yeah, yeah. My house has a lot of stairs and stuff. Yeah, you might be shopping for a ranch in the next little while. But obviously, you won't be able to tour 200 days a year once that little boy's in school. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know what that's going to look like. I don't know how we're going to navigate that because my wife travels with me everywhere too. Right. We have a great nanny though. We have an incredible nanny.

1:08:35Yeah, and you can do that for the first five years. Then he'll go to school and he'll want to be with his friends and you'll go, I can't take this kid out of his life all the time. Yeah, exactly. I don't know how to deal with that. I'll also be like my early 50s at the time. Yeah, you'll be 53. You might be in a different headspace. It's hard for me to like, I've been touring since I was a teenager. Yeah. It's weird. I've never broken below 200 besides COVID. Really? Yeah, 207 was the lowest. last year. So it's strange to me to not have a free weekend, for example. Yeah. You're going to have to get comfortable with that.

1:09:07You don't have to worry too much about that yet. You've played all the shows. That's true. What you haven't done is this chunk. If there's something novel left in life, it's that thing. Right, right. No, I'm excited about that chapter, but man, I love the stage. Yeah. I love playing for people. I thrive. It's your life source. I thrive there. Yeah, that's awesome. I live for it. I love it. Oh, I'm so happy because you've been doing it for a long, long time and you haven't burnt out. No, and also the thing is, is like when you play like festivals like EDC or Ultra or Tomorrowland, these festivals, you have to prepare all this new music.

1:09:43It forces you to be creative. It puts you on a schedule. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That schedule is important to me. That challenge to maintain my presence of my current music. It's not about like your last singles. It's not about all the songs that have impacted the culture. It's about, what about now? Do I have a song now that's going to actually matter? Yeah. And you'll get to, like a standup, you'll get to evaluate that real time. You'll know if it works or not. Exactly. You'll have real feedback, real time. I love that. That's why Vegas is like my laboratory. So do you have a residency currently?

1:10:17I do. Where at? So in Vegas, I do about 50 shows a year there. I play Omnia, Hakusan, Tao Beach, that whole world. But that's great because I'm in Vegas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just drive from home. And then 150 on average, like. Oh, my God. Wow. You're aging slower. That's the only good news. Yeah, yeah. Time moves just a fraction slower at altitude. So since you're spending so much time at altitude. I didn't know. Yeah, your clock's a little behind ours at sea level. That's a good thing. I definitely think about my biological age a lot more than I ever have. Yeah, because you also give a lot of money to regenerative brain research.

1:10:56The brain is who we are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like you could change your heart out, your liver, your body parts, but your brain. You don't want a transplant of that. You can't do that. You can actually now with Parkinson's patients could take a chunk of your brain out. So you're not having to have the jitters and still be who you are because your brain is so neuroplastic, right? So who you are can just move over to this side of the brain. Yeah. Well, it's like stroke people, they lose their verbal control. They just relocate it to a different part of your brain. Yeah, the brain is so wild.

1:11:26So interesting. yeah yeah yeah yeah well steve this has been a delight i'm really infected by how much you like it you're so passionate you so deserve to be here the fact that you've loved all this since a kid it's the gratitude when you're fighting for it for so long and then you finally get there yeah you gotta remember like the second you don't think it's that important to you someone else does and someone else will take it yeah and then when you're like oh i'm back guys they're like no we already have someone else it's like you better fight for that every single time you have the chance. Is this the 30th anniversary of the label?

1:11:58Yeah, it is. 96, 2026. We survived 30 years as an independent label. That's amazing. That's so impressive. It's really wild. Well, this has been lovely, man. I'm really glad I got to meet you. Thanks for having me. You deserve all this. I'm thrilled for you. I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong. Oh. Oh, sometimes water is so delicious. Sometimes, rarely. Almost never for you. I know. At least once a day for me where I have it and I just go like, oh, thank God this exists. It hits. Yeah, like I feel it hydrating me.

1:12:41Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's got a good taste. I know people say it doesn't have a taste, but it does have a taste. It tastes like water. It does. That's true. It's unmistakable. Yeah. God. Right? When you have a sip of water, you know right away that's water. Could be good or bad water. Huh. But you wouldn't. Hmm. That's interesting. We've filed it under no taste, but that's not true. Interesting. But it doesn't have any of the properties, right, that taste has. Like umami, salty, whatever the heck. I'm going to take one of my shoes off. I can't possibly take off the left. Why? Oh, no, shit. No, I can't take off the right.

1:13:22Why? Because of the deformities. Oh, well, just do it. Just like, who cares? You know, I'll keep them under the table. That's how I'll handle that. Because I didn't wear socks. I'm in a special outfit because we have a special guest. Yeah. And then I tried footies. Oh, yeah. They were visible. I hate that. I know. I struggle with this as well. I think it's a common struggle. and even if you get the ones that are not visible then it doesn't go up high enough and then the odds of it falling off in your shoe are like 80 i know they need to make it with like an adhesive on back or something but all to say i i because this person is so fashion forward i was like why can't have socks hanging out i'm gonna go socks listen shoes which i never do because my feet sweat real quick all right and that's what happened so well let's just see your feet well this one is fine-ish.

1:14:17No, it's got that crazy toenail. Well, yeah, it has the bris on it. And fuck. Yeah. And then that disgusting toenail that I have to use a drum roll. You can't really see. So it's fine. Okay. It's fine. Wow. Well. We went to a momentous event. We did. We sure did. Yeah. We went to a graduation. Yeah. No, I'm sorry. A culmination. A culmination. Exiting elementary school. You know, I rarely, I'm almost never on the side of like, oh, like, why do we have to have a new word for everything? Like, I'm generally like, sure, who cares? Doesn't bother me. I do think it's crazy that we can't call it a graduation.

1:14:56Oh, I didn't even interpret it as that. But probably maybe you're right. Well, I don't know. I didn't think they put a lot of thought into it. Like, we're not we don't use that word as much as just for calling it this. No, I looked it up. It's you don't call it that because there's no diploma. Oh, a culmination is a graduation without a diploma. Basically. By the way, they did give them a diploma. I know. I know. A graduation, I guess, only counts if it's like high school or college. Right. But I think that's silly and we can they can just all be graduations. Well, that's what's fun about the experience of having kids in the modern society, which is it's so different from when I was a kid.

1:15:37And then so your knee jerk is like, this must be crazy and silly. because my thing is like no you got one graduation it was hugely meaningful because you only got one of them and you looked forward to it and it was finally done and that's what i enter it with going like this is silly and indulgent oh why do they got to step up from every grade yeah that part it's the whole like get a trophy for everything you know yes i do think that's yeah there's some like i have some hesitation against it sure and then i'm there witnessing it and I absolutely love it. I know. And then I go, why do I care? What is what is it I care about?

1:16:12You care about people getting soft and the world getting soft, which I tend to care a little bit about, but not, you know, whatever. We're all on the spectrum. It's probably perfectly proportional to our age and generation. Yeah. It's like you guys had a little more of that than I had. Right. And now they have a lot more of that than you had. I still eye roll at a lot of the things that are happening now. Yeah. But yeah, I had a fifth grade graduation. And then I try to step back and go like, there's no right or wrong. It's just they did it that way when I was a kid. Now they're doing it this way.

1:16:46And then if there is some real obvious problem as a result of it, people will notice and they'll write op-eds about it and we'll probably fix it. So what's the big deal? But I do, I just bristle like, well, there's another thing that's like, this is what I'm telling myself when I'm objecting to it is like you're setting them up for massive failure in that the world's not going to celebrate them. That's how I feel. A mediocre job. It doesn't get a ribbon. You're not going to get a raise or a promotion at work for just being normal. It's misleading, right? Yeah. But then I guess you could quite easily make the argument of, yeah, exactly.

1:17:28That's how life is. So why not give them during childhood when they're innocent and they're carefree? Like, why not let them have this experience since they're never going to have it again? Yeah, there's just different schools of thought, like on childhood. Like my parents' school of thought was childhood is to prepare you for adulthood. Right. It's like it's not there just to be carefree and fun. It's like to learn lessons, to learn things that once you're an adult and you're on your own and you don't have help from us, that you can live. But the Japanese, they're kind of the opposite. They go like, oh, adulthood is fucking rough.

1:18:04It's sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice. So they weirdly really protect the childhood as being way more carefree because they know what they're going to have to take on. So it's like, I don't know. They've been doing it that way there for a very long time and it's worked out just fine for them. Other than that, they're not having kids. Yeah. No, this is not my learning college, not my observation. Oh, yeah. I was going to say, I was like, I don't like I don't think of Japanese children as like being like so effervescent or like running around or be like they're pretty contained and mellow. Well, I haven't been to Japan to even witness how kids are, but I do remember having a class where they were saying specifically they're not trying to prepare them.

1:18:45Oh, they're recognizing this is a once in a lifetime chapter, which is like, no, this is the time to be. be all these things because you're not going to be able to be all these things. Yes. Which whatever. They're all valid. Sure. Okay. But then the event itself. Yeah. It was great. So we went, you and Kristen, obviously, and Lincoln and grandparents and me and Anna and Titi. Carly. Yeah. We all went and we're going to talk through the whole thing. Okay. So first of all, you have been given a number beforehand. You didn't know what it was, but you gave you a number on a purple piece of paper. And the number was 24.

1:19:33OK, yeah. So then at the top of the graduation, the principal says, OK, if you were given a number, if you're in this person's class, you'll go to the left and you'll make a line. And here in the middle aisle. Exactly. And then if you're in this person's class, it made no sense. It didn't make sense what she was saying. It was clear. Everyone was confused. I was muddling around with all the parents holding numbers and no one knew where they were supposed to line up or in what order. Yes. And and then she said it again. Also confusing. And then you did have a loud clarificate. You said, well, there's.

1:20:12I raised my hand for a while and she didn't call me. OK. And then you. I was like, OK, I got it. I just. Yeah. So I loudly said, hey, there's a couple middle aisles. Is it the ones running parallel of the stage or these ones perpendicular? Oh, it's the middle. And then we got clarification on that. So the middle. That's the middle aisle. That's great. I do think because it was an auditorium. Yeah. It was it was with gust. It wasn't exactly the way you just did it. Well, I had to be heard in the back row. Yeah. It was extremely assertive. It was. Yes. And I was like. You were certainly nervous.

1:20:47I got nervous. I did a little bit of sinking down because, you know, what happens is they see they see it's you. They look at the group of they look at your people, obviously, because that's how life works. That's how people work. They're like, oh, and people are laughing and then they're looking. And I was like, oh, my God, a lot of attention, a lot of attention. I was thanked by all the parents that were in the confused because we were just trying to comply. But I just got that sense. We're not moving closer to this being lined up the way it's supposed to be. I stand by that it needed to be sorted out.

1:21:20It needed to be sorted out. I agree with you there. And a ton of the parents thanked me like this. Oh, thank God. You said I didn't know where the house was. So I was getting tons of validation there. But then I started getting really self-conscious. Like, does that principle feel like I just completely interrupted her thing? Right. And then I was planning to go apologize to her after her. That's nice. Nice. And so my full intention was to find her and to say, I'm so sorry if that was disruptive or rude. But she found me. I was like in the middle of talking to the teacher and she came up and she goes, oh, my gosh, thank you so much for.

1:21:52I was like, oh, thank I go. Thank God I was I was I was coming to say I'm sorry if that was. But she she did at least express that she was grateful that I got involved. Great. So anyway, you guys got lined up appropriately and you were one of the lucky ones that got a special flower. Yeah, Delta handled me a flower. Yeah. You stand there with a flower. Yeah, it was so cute. Yeah. And then you sat back down. They sang a beautiful song. Oh, they sang such a cute song. What was it? And I just, I just saying on the last fact check, I've come to terms with the fact that Delta's little, which I didn't know.

1:22:31Right. So weird. Yeah. I really don't know how I didn't know that. I think this is because her personality is so big. Well, also because she's just the person you see every day. It was when she went to the dance and I saw these photos. I was like, oh, she's a head shorter than everyone. Yeah. So then at the big singing thing, I'm like trying to find her and she's kind of buried behind tall people. Yeah. But you can see her teeth from a mile away. That's how you find Delta. Her rabbit teeth. She just has the biggest smile. She has the cutest rabbit teeth that you can see from so far away. Yes. And the song was so, so sweet.

1:23:02And cry, cry, cry. Yeah, everyone's already crying at that point. It just has just begun. And then they did a really, really beautiful thing where at first I got anxious. Yes. When this was announced was going to happen. You start doing math immediately. Yep. Yeah. So the graduation is just two classrooms of fifth graders. So probably like 80 kids or 70. So many. And those I didn't realize, like, how many kids are in these classrooms these days a lot. And then that made me so like, God, these teachers, you know, oh, my God, they're nurses, you know, them and nurses. Oh, and so for each kid, a teacher spoke about them, like wrote a little like paragraph about them and said it out loud.

1:23:53As they came up and got their little diploma. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. So at first, when I hear this is happening, I was like, oh, I did the math. I was like, it's going to take at least a minute to read each one, probably more. Yep. That's like 75 minutes at the quickest version of this. Yeah. This is. Yeah. The brain starts doing that. And then I was like, OK, but good. Her class is first. Not that it even. Well, no, I did, too. But then I'm like, I can't believe I'm going to be a dick. So it's almost worse. There's nothing to look forward to. That's true. Yeah. So anyway, they say all these beautiful things about these kids.

1:24:29And it really after the first couple, I was like, oh, my God, this is just so important that they are doing this, because as we know, what teachers say about you sticks. It really sticks. And I was like, each one of these kids gets a moment where they're being told about their, you know, assets and like moments throughout the year that happened. did you have so first round of anxiety was the time yeah second round of anxiety was like oh these teachers have to say something unique about each student how are they gonna do it how is it not gonna become generic yes but fucking hats off to the teachers it was each one was so specific and thoughtful it was no one phoned any one of them yes they were all unique and I was like oh my god this is great but then I did I did have some um uh what's it called like mirror neuron stuff happening yeah with some of the kids because i was like okay some of the kids got the teachers to cry oh sure over them but i thought in a great turn of events it wasn't like the most popular kids in class it wasn't like they got double like a they were already really popular and the teachers crying over it to me that wasn't happening I know, but sometimes it was.

1:25:53But sometimes they deserve both, I guess. Yeah. No, it just, I just know me. And I was like, I would want that so bad. You would want your teacher to cry. And not be able to keep it together at all when they had to say bye to me. That is the high bar. I just want them to be so sad. Devastated. Miss me so much. I announce their retirement. Exactly. I can't possibly go on if you're not in my class. Yeah. that's what I would have wanted it would have been what I was striving for yeah and some people got it some people didn't and there was one that was like I have no idea what's you have no idea about these kids obviously and what's been going on but there was one that you based on the little speech you could kind of put some pieces together about this kid and it was everyone was crying it was so moving and I did think this person will hopefully never forget this and make decisions based on that based on no I'm a leader I'm a this I'm a you know oh it was just so lovely and of course the deltas was so so wonderful and we're crying cry more crying yeah I felt I did feel a little dead inside you did yeah because all of you guys were crying so hard and you felt judged well i know i didn't feel judged i didn't even clock whether you were i know no one was but i knew i was like i'm not like really i was feeling emotional but i wasn't i wasn't um emoting crying I wasn't crying tears um and then and then I was like like not these people are pretend not you but I was like some of these people are just performing you know I thought it crossed my mind that you thought I was performing no if it's your kid I mean I felt I was like oh my god I cannot believe she's graduating fifth grade I can't believe she's this old look at her oh my god I mean, I was definitely like I had tears in my eyes.

1:27:59In your mind? In my mind's eyes. No, I had tears, but there was no spillage. Right, right, right. It didn't break the. And some people, not the parents, obviously, but some other people were crying so hard. Okay. That I was like, this isn't real. You were calling bullshit. And then I know it was real. it was real and everyone's on a spectrum of how easily they cry and what they cry about you know but i felt a little in my head about that yeah stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare

1:28:49it's so great how you can be having multiple experiences at the same time because i too was having like I was having like three levels of engagement with it. Hey, it's my sweet spot. Right. We know what I'm going to cry about. It's earnestness. It's like it's earnestness in the face of a cruel world. Yes. That's that always hits me. Of course. Yeah. It's vulnerability and sweetness in spite of the fact that everyone's fucking terrible and mean. Yes. And then there was this little girl that was just brought the house down. This little girl with a lot of different developmental stuff going on who fucking graduated fifth grade and the way she was celebrating waving her diploma over her head I was that girl made me cry like five times and then I just stared at her in the front row swinging her feet she's so happy it made me so happy it's like it's it was happiness cry I know it's just like too happy for her to not be crying about it beautiful yeah okay I had an experience with that beautiful girl as well where I was like, oh my God, she's so happy.

1:29:50Like, yeah, she's so happy. But then I was struggling. And the class was so supportive. It was not like when I was in fifth grade. Those kids were like separate. I know. And they were in a room and you're like, oh no, stay away. I know. It was so beautiful. But I did have a moment of like, I felt sad. And then I felt guilty for feeling sad. right and I was like you can't feel sad about this or what you probably have is fear which is like look at this beautiful human being on earth and and earth's not designed for her how will she do I know but look at her I know fucking crushing it I just hope it stays yeah yeah but that's what's going on it's like you you you immediately care and want to help and protect and that's what a wonderful part of us that we all feel that anxiety yes yeah and that's nice and then i go we kind of nice most time i think we're terrible but then no we're kind of nice all of us feel this way about this little girl right and that's so wonderful yeah oh she was so cute so i had all that stuff going on and i was like very present for that stuff but very very actively as well I got crazy aware in a very anthropological way.

1:31:07And this will be so dod to you and to everybody, but it took me a minute to figure out why. But ceremonies are often when we most coalesce around what our group values are. These are kind of the moments where we declare group values and like pro-social and anti-social. Like it's these rites of passages where we kind of talk about how you should be in the world. And I just got like hyper aware of like, oh, wow. Yeah. Culture is being passed on to them right now. Like it's so concrete right now because it starts with a song about having dreams. Have a million dreams. Go get those dreams. I know.

1:31:55And I was just like, this is so American. Like this is how the system works. Everyone in here should be dreaming of being spectacular. Right. Which obviously is not reality. Not everyone's going to be spectacular. And then I was just thinking about how opposite this is probably from the Japanese graduation. That's more collective society. Right. Right. Right. And finding probably how to be a great family member or whatever, whatever virtues are reaffirmed in those moments for their express. So it was like, have a, you know, dream to the stars. It's just so interesting. Again, I say it was zero judgment.

1:32:34Of course. There was a moment, I'll never forget it. And I, of course, argued with him. At my brother's high school graduation, you know, the valedictorian comes up and says something. It's ludicrous. And it is. And it's like, chase your dream. You know, it's all this dream stuff. Work hard. Chase your dream. Not work hard. You know, like that part's not really in it. Yeah. Even similar here, right? It's like, just go after it and be the best you can be and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Be great. Be great. I mean, be great. And my dad was like squirming in his seat. And after he was like, what is this?

1:33:16He was like, why don't people just strive to be mediocre? He literally said that. He was like, or strive to be content. He said mediocre, which was, I was like, dad. yeah that's a pejorative in our society exactly but he means strive to be safe just strive to get some things you don't have to get all the things you don't have to be the best just have enough yeah to to live a life try to get enough yeah yeah and he really hated that umpulumpa or the swedish thing is the right amount oh lacuma or whatever yeah he really and i like i I was so eye rolly with him. I was like, dad, that is not like that's not an inspiring message.

1:33:58That's not what you do. And he was like, it should be. And I, of course, thought that was silly as someone who was chasing a dream. Yeah. But I do, as the older I get, agree a little more with it, I think. I mean, it's not really fair for me to say because I did get a lot of the things I wanted to get. Yeah, there's a certain reality, which is like of these 75 kids, all 75 of them can't be president of the United States. It's not going to work out time wise for them. Yeah. And they're not going to be CEOs and they're not going to be a world famous artist. So on some level, I start a little judgmental, like, man, do we not set everyone up for total failure?

1:34:37Like when they're not spectacular, which 99.9 % of people are not spectacular, then they're just disappointed in themselves. They didn't fulfill this thing that seems so easily everyone should be achieving. Everyone says you should have it. Yeah, I know. So I think about that. And then I go like, yeah, this is a little messed up. But then I step back even further and I go, forget right or wrong. It's like, this is just how it is here. And what's the result? So we have a system. And regardless of what the intentions of the system were, whatever results the system produces are what the system creates.

1:35:10Yeah. and the result is yeah dude a person came to this country from south um south africa and became the first trillionaire to ever live because he came here it's wild and every invention not every damn near every fucking invention happens here and so it's just the system by which you get this other thing you can then decide all the way later yeah is it good or bad to be america versus japan versus Spain versus whatever. I don't know. I kind of think, no, I think. Well, they're all, I don't think you can say better. It's just all trade-offs. Yeah. There's good things about all the places. So I literally, I didn't leave it going like this.

1:35:52We shouldn't do this. I just like, oh, this is how we get this result. And it's really baked in. And this is a very progressive and very self-aware school. Yeah, it is, yeah. And even they probably haven't consciously thought, oh, we're passing on this culture. It's just, it's just what you do. And you do it innately because it was given to you and then you pass it on. I know. It's hard though, because even though I agree that it, it might be maybe setting us up to all fall short. I also fully bought into that fully. And like, I was like, I'm getting what I want. I'm, I'm chasing this crazy dream.

1:36:36I'm going to do it. But I like, you know, when you're like young and you need like some so embarrassing design wise now, you know, but like you like get like words from like TJ Maxx. If there was a dream, I'd always get it. Like that was like such a word for me. And it worked. Yeah. Like for me, it worked. I don't know. The system is living and breathing because 1 % do break through. Yeah. and you need to be motivated yeah and we'd rather live in a place where that's possible even if it's not probable i would exactly i would exactly yes and a lot of people would and then some people want it yeah it's just all really interesting and so yeah so there was that thing that was and then even the nature of this thing that was beautiful everyone gets something read about them to identify something special about them.

1:37:34Yes. And it's like, yeah, that we all like, we all need to be special. We all need to be individual. We all need to be uniquely special. Yeah, I know. And we'll figure it out because that's what we want and what we do. And again, that's not right or wrong. It's just like, oh, I was aware. I was just noticing, oh, now this bit of culture is being passed on and this bit of culture. Well, yeah, no, at first, again, she said the thing, this is going to happen. And then I was like, oh, my God, we're going to be here for so long. And then I was also like, oh, I also was like, Jesus, like, can't they just write?

1:38:07Feels indulgent. Exactly. It felt indulgent. And then a part of it was like, can't they just like write it on a paper and give it to them or something? But this whole like standing in front of everyone while you're hearing nice things about you, it was a little bit like, oh, my God. But then it was happening. And I was like, this is a beautiful thing. I love it. Yeah. Because this is my culture. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. It's really, it's just funny. Before I had kids, maybe, I don't know. I just sat through all these things. I never really was aware of what was happening during these things.

1:38:39And I was just, I just. It's like, I know each one's like, I know you're going to be a star in sixth grade, or I know you're going to be a mathematician. It's like. One of them was like going to be run for president. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was really putting myself in the position of being up there and like what I would have wanted them to say about me and like what would they have said about me at that age. Yeah, I was thinking about that too, what they would say about me. I know, I felt really, I was like, oh my God, I'm thinking way too much. Because I'd be a naughty boy, but I bet I would have won them over enough.

1:39:09Like they would have talked about me being naughty and then said I was really funny, I think. Well, there was one boy that before the teacher could speak about him, he said, okay, I got it. I want to say something. And I was like, oh, this is Dax. but then it was so sweet. He wanted to call out a dude that works in the office. Yes. It was so sweet. Cause at first I was like, Oh my God. This kid is way too confident. Who's he thinking? Everyone has come up and played their part. And he has to do something different. He's like, no, no, stop, stop. I need to say something. And you're like, well, what's this tall poppy doing?

1:39:44Exactly. And then it was selfless. I know. What a gangster. It was great. But it took a turn. Cause I was like, Oh no. And then I did, I was like, this is just like Dax. But then it was sweet. And I was like, I guess it is like him. I guess that is part of it. It was neat. I really, I really enjoyed watching me participate in my culture. A crying. What's that? The kids crying? All the kids were bawling after. I was happy to see that because as I told you, when I picked up Lincoln from the fifth grade dance, no one was, everyone was crying. Because they realized they weren't going to see each other.

1:40:19And then when I picked up Delta, they didn't seem to have any awareness of that. But now it seems to have hit them at this ceremony. I know, but that made me sad. And it is sad. Like, these chapters, you know, I was thinking about her little preschool graduation that we did in COVID. Remember, it was COVID, so we just, like, went one by one. This is when I had just crashed the motorcycle. Exactly. Same day. Yeah, I was in there in a sling, yeah. Same day. And, like, I just, that, we were said bye to that school. Yeah. And now this school. And it's like, what the fuck is going on? I hate time. Yeah.

1:40:57And you really, I think you specifically hate chapters. Yeah. Endings. I hate endings. I think the more you look at life as chapters, the easier it is to handle the bittersweetness. I don't like that. Which is to go like, yeah, this is sad I'm leaving this chapter. And there'll be a different chapter I'll experience. And that will be special too. And I'll be sad to say goodbye to that one. But then another one will come. I know. I said that to her when she was crying. I said, it's hard. It's hard. It's a really big chapter. Yeah. But yeah. And my inclination was to say, but there's going to, but there's the next one's going to be so fun.

1:41:38But I didn't. Cause I was like, yeah, it's just, it is hard to end things. It's hard to say goodbye to things. and but it also shows you that you cared about things and that they were special and important because you will miss them and long for them without that part we don't get the other part i know everything's a given then you just take everything for granted i know that's our terrible nature it's yeah it's just hard but i also it is funny because i was like oh my god Like they're so old and this is like they're in college tomorrow. And like, I hate this. Then I was thinking back to fifth grade and I was like, Oh, that was so long ago.

1:42:22Like I like, can't really remember it. So there's a lot, a lot will happen. Yeah. It's not, it's going to move fast, but it's like, things are going to happen in there. And yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about that the other day. I was, I don't know what I was journaling about, but I was thinking, oh, in a few birthdays, I'll have been on TV as long as I've not been on TV. Enough. Oh, I see. I see. I see. Yes. Yeah. I was 28. When I hit 56, half of my life I'll have spent having been on TV. Show business. And what I weirdly liked about that was I thought, Oh, that's so long ago. Yeah, a lot happens.

1:43:11It's so long ago. And I still have that chunk of time ahead of me. Yeah. That's really comforting. Yeah, I know. Yeah. I know. I think about that as well. It went by so fast, but also so much happened. Yeah. And so much will happen in the next, that next chunk of time, but it's still stressful. Anyway, well, happy graduations to all. It's a time to think about like moving forward, new chapters, next stages. Yeah. What we are as a people, how we prepare each other for that, how we, I don't know, you know, ceremonies and rites of passages. Maybe because I was into anthro. It's just a human thing.

1:43:56Yeah, it's really interesting that we all have developed these things. Actually, it's an animal thing. I mean, I feel like. Right. I don't even animals like elephants do like a little mourning thing. Elephants mourn. Yeah. They have elephant grave sites where they play with the bones and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Their rites of passage are more like you get kicked out of the, the, the, they call elephants caravans, right? Oh, that sounds right. You get kicked out of the caravan because you're an adolescent male and you can't be around anyone. And then you get to come back when you've chilled out.

1:44:33So I guess that's a rite of passage. Yeah. I guess so. But yeah. Want to do some facts? Yeah, let's do some facts. Pack of elephants is a memory or a parade? Parade. Oh, wow. I like that. A memory? Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. Because they have such good memories. Yeah. But that is weird. That's why. That's why. You wouldn't call a pack of cheetahs fast. It's a fast of cheetahs. That would be great. A fast of cheetahs. That'd be great. They also look like they're fasting cheetahs. Yeah, because they're spending so much energy. Yeah. They're going to stay light and quick. Okay, well, this was for Steve.

1:45:12Steve Aoki, who I really, really liked. Me too. You know, I think I even said it in the episode, but I don't have a ton of interest in DJing. So when we're considering a guest like Steve, I go, I got to recognize that this guy's like a world fucking famous, one of the biggest DJs to ever live. That's worthy of an exploration. But I personally am not so into DJing. Yeah. But this whole punk rock thing that happened and to see how enthusiastic this guy is and always has been about music. Yeah. I thought, boy, does he deserve all this? Yes, I agree. Yeah. I like him so much. Me too. He was also just very kind and sweet energy.

1:45:56Very sweet energy. Almost so sweet. It's amazing he made it. And what a cool counterfactual to his father's approach. I know. But yet they both were wildly successful. Yeah, it's true. Okay. When did Benihana start franchising? Wait, iPod. Ugh. Embarrassing. IPO'd. No. IPO'd in 1983. It's like, that's not what I asked in 1983 and started soon after. The exact date is unclear, but by 1970s, there were many locations. First store opened in 1964. I want to go. I want that fried rice. I want it with butter. We were just talking about it last night. Oh, I want that. No info on the percentage of birthdays that are at Benihana.

1:46:50Hard to find out. I think it is 70%. I think he would know. Yeah. Is Kill Sadie banned from Minnesota? Yes. From Minneapolis and active 1997 to 2001. What is this? A band. Kill Sadie. Oh, not they were banned like a book banning. No, banned. Got it. Got it. Got it. Yes. I'm like, I was having a lot of cognitive dissonance. I'm like, Minneapolis is very progressive. They wouldn't ban anything. No, they wouldn't. That's true. No, okay. Devin, some fun facts. Fast and Furious, Sin City his sister yep, DOA, Mutant Chronicles Modeling Career, Walked for Balenciaga Comme des Garcons Chanel wow you know I immediately not immediately, it took me three days weirdly but I got on the phone with my cousin who was in the band that Steve was obsessed with yes and so I wanted to tell him dude that DJ Steve Aoki loves Current I just want to tell him all that.

1:47:52And then also pass on the fact that he authenticates records for his dad. Oh, yeah. He was telling us about that after and we were going to talk about that. Yeah. So he has a company that now authenticates records and gives them a quality and then encases them. And so he had offered to do that to my uncle's record collection, which is kind of famous. And then my cousin said, oh, yeah, he was like a Santa Barbara punk rock kid, huh? Like he kind of knew that he had that origin. And he goes, and doesn't he? He's got a super hot sister. And I go, yeah, yeah. She's like crazy hot. Yeah. Those are the two things he knew about him.

1:48:32Well, yeah. She replaced Naomi Campbell as the face of Versace in 98 at the age of 16. Dude. Wow. Wow. Okay, 2007 Coachella. The headlines were Bjork, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Rage Against the Machine. Steve played on Saturday afternoon in the Sahara tent. Sahara? Sahara. Sahara. What year did esports take off? He guessed 2010s. Yes, sources cite 2010s as the big surge in popularity, mostly after the launch of Twitch in 2011. In 2013, viewers watched 12 billion minutes on the platform. Oh my God. Oh my heavens. Yeah. I mean, there's also like some obviously fun stuff on his dad. Was he wrestling for the Olympics?

1:49:20He came to the U S with the spot on Japan's 1960 Olympic team, but never competed and a scholarship to wrestle in the States at Springfield college in Springfield, Massachusetts. His 1979 offshore powerboat crash near the golden gate bridge resulted in many injuries, including a ruptured aorta, a lacerated liver and multiple broken bones in his arm and leg, leaving him with a 10 % chance of survival. Oh my God. He's got the maniac Rocky. It is claimed that the hepatitis he had at the time of his death was from a blood transfusion from the crash. Oh my gosh. Ooh. Wow. Okay. He won a bunch of awards, wrestling and power boating, backgammon, hot air ballooning.

1:50:02Backgammon? Yeah. Won the world leisure class backgammon championship in 1974. This guy might have devoured life more than anyone we know of. Exactly. He's kind of my new hero. Part of the hot air ballooning, part of the four-man crew that completed the first trans-Pacific balloon flight in 1981, setting a 34-year record for the longest manned balloon flight, covering 5 ,208 miles. Probably until Richard Branson. Oh. He didn't have to do that. He traveled the world. He didn't need to. He circumnavigated the earth on a hot air balloon. Poor Rocky. Well, he got unseated. You correct for his level of technology versus the other balloon.

1:50:43I think it's probably more impressive going across the Pacific and the thing they did. Those are the facts. Well, Steve, if you're listening, you're so likable. It's crazy. Yeah, that was really a lovely interview. I enjoyed it a lot. All right. Love you. You're special. You're great. You're going to be the president. Oh, right back at you.

1:51:07Thank you.