Timothy Olyphant

22:04Oh, but you know what? In the 200, I am. Okay, but that's still fine. You know what's sad? Let me just give you a little insight. Let's hear something sad. Throw this on the Wikipedia page. Rob, can you get on that? Yeah, yeah. Open it up, Rob. I won the San Joaquin section, which is like Modesto, Sacramento, the whole San Joaquin Valley area. And my senior year of high school, I beat what was a guy named Jeff Float's record. And Jeff Float was the flag bearer at the 84 Olympic Games. Wow. So it shows you what a disappointment I was after that day. Because you haven't bore the flag. Because the guy whose record I beat went on to become an amazing Olympic swimmer.

22:45And you beat him. In high school. Still. I know, but you see what he did after the next couple years? Yeah, we don't talk about that. See what he did after that? He gets serious after that. See what he did after that? You got loved him. Finalist at Nationals Olympic team. You might be the reason, though. Makes me a bit of an underachiever. No, but I was going to say, I think that if I were you, I might be looking at my life because you're an insanely good actor. I appreciate that. And I might be like, why am I not winning everything? I should be winning everything based on my talents. And then I would look back at my life and be like, I'm not winning enough.

23:19I'm really good at a lot of things and I'm not getting the full recognition. That's what you think? If I were you, I would think that. But she's also a winner. I love winning. That's real. I am. That wouldn't cross my mind, but that would cross her mind. I can only tell you that I wake up every morning thinking, oh, look who the big winner is. I feel pretty good. I love that. I got a pretty good deal. You do. Oh, my God. And it's good that you're not focused like I would be about. What else do I want? You should win an Oscar every year. You should. I imagine you won a bazillion 200-meter medley before you got to nationals is my guess.

23:52Are you competitive? Yeah. You couldn't have gotten a scholarship to USC without being competitive. I didn't get a scholarship to you. You got recruited. I was recruited. They didn't offer me money and I turned down other ones because I just really wanted to come to LA. When you got there, you were hoping to maybe do architecture or something. I walked into the architecture school on my recruit trip. I had this instilled early on. My grandfather on my mother's side was very much like there's only four or five professions. It was like architect, lawyer, government or doctor and everyone else is just hanging on.

24:25I drew a lot as a kid and I loved to do creative stuff. So I was like, I guess I'll be an architect because that's the only one on the list that seems to be connected. So I went to the architecture school. They just right off the bat, the dean told me I couldn't be on the swim team and still be in the architecture school. The commitment's too big and long. Architecture classes are five hours long and they're in the middle of the day. It's when you're training. They can't work around it. Everyone's reading The Fountainhead all day. They're reading The Fountainhead. Read that in college. How could you not?

24:55It's so appealing when you're a young man. You think your whole life story will be it. And eventually they all learned you were right. Exactly. That's your arc. And you just drive around looking at all those. Remember because the church he built was down close to the ground and everyone was very upset about it. And I just remember driving around going, yeah, look at all these churches. That's not the way Howard would have done it. He was right. He was right. The architecture school was upstairs. And I asked the guy, I said, on the way in, I noticed downstairs, there was what looked like a gallery and then there was like a ceramic studio.

25:28And he's like, yeah, that's the fine art department. And I was like, you can get a degree in that? Anyway, so he said, yeah, let me introduce you to this. So I went downstairs and sat down with the dean of the art school and asked him if I could, here's my swim schedule. And they said, we can work it out. That exercise is among the most calorically burning you can endeavor, right? Swimming. I just remember the Michael Phelps diet, right? Yes. Let's just go with yes. I know you burn a ton. Were you eating like a monster during that? Ridiculous. Were you? Such fond memories of everything I ate. Because you had a card, right?

26:05You could go to the cafeteria and we'd just go and we'd get a tray and it would be a plate of pancakes, a plate of eggs and bacon and potatoes. It was so absurd. Yeah, but you had to. I bet if you were walking through the cafeteria, you would easily be able to go like, oh yeah, that's the swimmers. They're all eating 13 ,000 calories this morning. Come in with these trays and trays of so much food on that plate. Was that ever a hard routine to break? I remember once before practice, and I could do the math. I might've been junior year, but I remember about to jump in and assistant coach, shout out to Darrell.

26:44Shout out. That was a risky thing you just did. I've watched you now on a lot of interviews. and anytime you try to remember someone's name, it's high risk. So just congrats that you landed. Are we sure it's right? No, there's about a 60 % chance that's not the right name. I can name all the coaches. We say hi to all the swim coaches. Dave Shalo. And Darrell said something about me having a belly. Like he's like, oh, gotta watch whatever. And I was like, what are you talking about? And I was still young, but I do remember like, oh, I can't just eat as much as I'm eating. You have to be a little bit thoughtful.

27:14Which is nothing compared to 20 years later when you really have to be like, yes, Jesus. It's so annoying. We would go to Baskin Robbins and order pints, each one of us. Stand in line with everyone getting their cone, single or double. And we'd be like, get a pint of half peanut butter chocolate, half praline cream. Pint, please. And a spoon. And we would all just eat a pint. Did you play sports growing up? I skateboarded and snowboarded. I did all like the alternative. These are Olympic sports. They became those. They weren't them. But not about me. You didn't have What did I do? You did it again I'm not doing anything No, you're not doing anything This is pretty good, by the way It is, it is From what I've seen, this is maybe the best you've ever done You came in with like a plan I came in with no plan I just wanted you to Good, you're not supposed to Usually I like a plan You do?

28:05A little bit of a plan I know You like control? I think there's a control issue I detected a few things All of it, by the way, really lovely It makes for fun Doing the press? Yeah. I was observing a lot of things. A, you're just really funny every time you show up somewhere. Thank you. And you're likable and you're charismatic. And the smile, I'm sure, got you out of so much trouble, which is unfair to the rest of us without that dumb smile. At parties, they were like, cops are here. All of it. Yeah. Go smile. Go charm the pants up. Yeah, I don't know what that was, but I was the designated talk to the cops guy.

28:36Yeah, that's obvious. Yeah, you're very easy to talk to. That disarmaged smile, it's like, am I in trouble? I bet I am in trouble. Like, you're just finding out you're in trouble. You watch the things and you've got some thoughts. I got thoughts. I had an interesting thought coming in, literally right before we started. Let's hear yours first. Okay. Should we decide? Yeah. Monica? Yeah. I thought, yeah, he's very comfortable if you're in control. I realized that if you could just, I shouldn't say this stuff out loud. Yeah, you should. Too late. If you could just knock an interviewer off balance a little bit at hello, it just made the interview a little bit easier from that moment forward.

29:10Absolutely. Because you don't want to disrespect those things. But somewhere along the line, I discovered that if I could just knock each one a little off balance, it might turn into a lovely spontaneous moment or two. So somewhere along the line, that occurred to me. When they sit down, they say, tell me about your character. I say, no, you tell me about it. And then somehow what might come of that more often than not is actually kind of like, oh, that was fun five minutes. An honest moment. Yeah. Where if I just go into the thing, it's no fun for anybody. Yeah. So when I go on talk shows or things like that, I find same thing.

29:47If I can throw something out there, they have more fun. I have more fun. I just grew up loving talk shows. And I love a great talk show guest. For a while, I really just wanted to be a talk show host. In college, I sent a video in with my roommate to audition for some talk show. I can't believe we actually did it. One of the two networks, or Fox, they were getting into the late night. And I remember like, I want this gig. You auditioned to host it. I sent in a video, like three reasons why I'm the guy. That's so cute. I was like, first of all, a hundred bucks a time. I was like, even if, I mean, it fails.

30:22Can you imagine if they would have put a 21-year-old swimmer from USC on my talk show? We really filmed it on VHS. God, the optimism at that age. Sent it in, like, this is going to be our thing. So that was the idea. Yeah, you've always loved it, and you want to make sure you do good at it. Yeah. You're saying. And my first major talk show appearance, I was on Conan's show in New York, late 90s. And I was so nervous that I remember his lips moving. And I don't know what he was saying exactly. But when they stopped, I was like, okay, now is when I tell the story I'm supposed to tell. Yeah. And I didn't do them again for years.

31:01And then now I think if anything, I try to anticipate the host's sense of humor. Like, oh, he is going to love this. he or she, you know. He. It's going to be he. Late night. No, but we want it. We want there to be. When you were on Joan Rivers' show? Is that what you're talking about? I didn't realize you were on her show. Ellen. Sometimes the daytime ones. Different, fun. The audience is the best you'll ever be in front of on Ellen. They always want to talk about your kids and your pets. Because that's who's watching, people who have pets. Daytime, kids, pets. Yep. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert.

31:38If you dare.

31:46I had a story about my daughter and her guinea pig. Perfect. And it was this whole story. Two for one. I remember saying I had this whole thing about the guinea pig and how desperately she wanted the guinea pig. And then a week later, she just can't remember why she wanted the guinea pig. and I just look at the guinea pig and it's looking at me and we're both thinking, yeah, I don't know why. I don't know why you're here, but this is your life for the foreseeable future. 18 months are over while you live. And then I said, hey, you know, there's a lot of countries where you can go into a restaurant and say, how's the guinea pig?

32:22Oh, yep. Oh, she hated that. She can't stand that. And years later, that guinea pig had a tumor on the side of him. It was like he was walking around with like a second guinea pig. Oh, boy. And this is what happened. You know, that's why we study the rats and the rodents because their life cycle is very fast. That's right. So, what's his name? We can give him a name for the story. But all I know is that little guy's got a tumor of the size of another guinea pig. And we feel like it's maybe time. So our daughter, our youngest, she's getting ready to go to school. And we want to let her know that mom and I are going to probably take the little guy to the vet just to see how the little guy.

33:00We're going to take him to an oncologist first. We have to find out if he's in pain and just where he is. She immediately started crying and asked, is he going to kill it? And I said, we don't know. She's like, he's going to kill him. And she starts bawling. I said, I'm so sorry. She goes, no, I'm really upset because, you know, I never really loved him. She was having guilt. He had a loveless life. And get ready. So great. And I still don't. Oh, my God. And then she says, can you take the fish too? The fish isn't dying. I just said, just take it. I can't. You know what? Get everyone but my brothers out of here.

33:43My wife and I drove to the vet that morning after we dropped her off from school. We each knew. We're like, honey, if one of us gets sick, keep your eye on that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's going to be like, just take that too. I've never even loved him anyway. No way. Pull the plus. I can't deal with both of them. Just get it over with. That is so funny. Pull the band-aid. Yeah. How old was she when that happened? She's a kid. I don't know. She's little. Let's go with 12. I can't remember. She's the youngest. We're talking about the oldest. I can hit dates. I can hit whatever you want. He told me that on October 7th.

34:17They took care of it at the vet. Oh, yeah, yeah. But guess what they did when you left? They shipped them to one of those restaurants. Medium rare, please. He was on the first flight. Just like chicken. Just like chicken. Come on. You did a really big favor because my brother's fish had a tumor and it exploded. Good on you. Exploding fish. And it didn't make it, obviously. No. Did it survive the explosion? Yeah, you never know. Could have been an aqua miracle. Exploded. Just got it right off. It was fine. And then was like, oh, yeah. Felt so much better. Exactly. Like a pimple or a boil. Now, last thing about the swimming.

34:55Keeping it on track. Good for you. We didn't go as deep as I thought we were going to go on your talk show. I thought you were going to say, this is why you do this. This is your issue. Well, I just was a little bit. We didn't control. And then also you told me more than you realized by first appearance on Conan. You were a little deer in the headlights. Yeah. And it sounds like after the fact, you're like, I need a better game plan. I was thinking this before I got here. Here's some free, I'll open a can of worms. I'll tell you two things that occurred to me literally right before we were going on.

35:24a couple of famous people will pop in my head oftentimes before i do interviews like a lou reed or a bob dylan there are men and women of that era in music but in all forms where they were just like fuck you to anyone who was talking to them and that famous bob dylan time magazine where he's like i don't read time magazine i was like i love that you're saying that to time magazine exactly yeah right he's saying to him like have you come to the show and he goes well You got to pay attention because it's going to move pretty quick. You might not get it all right. Like he just immediately. Putting them down.

35:58And then there's the Lou Reed, those press interviews where they're such assholes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Stones were kind of pricks too when they came to the U.S. I'm guilty, perhaps. I admired those guys so much growing up. And I also over the years have collected moments of actors telling people to go fuck themselves. and being like, oh, wow, that looks fun. I remember being at a premiere, like 99. I was at a party and Robert Duvall had agreed to take a picture with me. And I walked over and said hello to him. And he's like, how are you doing? Are they treating you well? Everything good? And I was like, yeah, I appreciate you doing this.

36:36We turned to the photographer and she started taking pictures. And then she put down the camera for a second and said, you're at a party. And he said, don't do that. Don't direct. Just take the goddamn fucking picture. Snap, snap. and then right back to being charming and couldn't have been nicer. And I was like, wow. And I have a bunch of those. Even Marc Maron, you saw him get introduced to the director on stick. Shook his hand and kept walking. Yeah, you were like, hey, I love your stuff, sort of thing. So what you and I both have is we both really want to be liked. And when you see someone that has zero people pleaser, it seems like superpower, right?

37:10I realized that just recently I was told on Good Authority, he's like, well, you've always had a problem with conflict. And I was like, have I? And then it occurs to me that these moments that I've always sort of clocked are these guys that are just basically saying, no, no, no, I'm totally fine being a dick. Yes. And I've always looked in and said, there's an option. Like now, if I'm doing the carpet and someone directs, I know that they've overstepped. Because of this moment that I saw, from that moment forward, I'm like, oh, I can handle this however I want. I've never said, just take the fucking picture.

37:43Right, right. But I've done some version of saying, I appreciate what you're trying to do. So those moments have always been helpful in terms of little guidelines. Yes. And then it's just, okay, how do you want to handle it? It's interesting to be around people who don't need approval when you do need approval. I do that too. You see people and it's like, oh my God, how wild. But then if I tried it, I would just feel horrible. I'm not comfortable making someone else feel bad. They are, which is fine. The art of rejecting people while giving them something. there's a great story I remember growing up of Bob Costas asking Jack Nicholson when he was sitting courtside a Laker game back in the day if he would do a on-camera quick interview when they came back from a commercial break I think Costas if I remember correctly says he looks at me and says Bob I love you and I love your work but let me put it this way there's no fucking way Yeah, but that's right.

38:39That's not me. And Bob tells that story like it's a gift. Well, it's coming from Jack Nicholson. Exactly, but you see the judo, right? Yeah. You see the judo. I think I have gotten good at owning why I don't want to do it. I had this moment when we interviewed Minka. She brought this up. We were shooting Parenthood, and there's been this love thing simmering, and it's going to be the big moment where we kiss. And I have a huge fucking nose. Anna's been broken in a fight, and if you photograph this side of it, I look ugly. Thank God one of my favorite directors was there working. And I said, listen, I'm really insecure for you to shoot me from there on the wrong side, looking up low.

39:15This moment that I'm already kissing a girl that's out of my league. And I'm insecure about that. And I need you to help me look as good as I can. So you need to be shooting on the other side or just flip us. And I need to be down and she needs to be up. And he was like, yeah, OK. And then he left. And Minka was like, wow, I've never really seen that. You can do that. And I'm like, well, yeah, I care. Yeah, yeah. And I'm insecure. And I'm vain. But also, it's a big difference. Yeah, you handled it really good. Yeah. I was on a set with Bruce Willis where he'd be like, yeah, bring it up a little bit.

39:45Take it down a little bit. There you go. That's better. What do you think of that? It's not an accident. He's a movie star. And I was like, that's amazing. Yeah, but it's not an accident. It is a very technical thing. Yes. So you're going to work all this time to do your lines and shit. You know, you have no awareness of when you look good or bad. That guy is the art of dealing with conflict. Yeah, whoa, whoa, hey, everybody chill. Hey, let's take a laugh. Oh my God, I had the best time. Live free or die hard. Okay. That was the film you guys did together. Okay. Yeah. What were you saying? I had a good, oh, you're doing a kissing scene.

40:19I had to kiss a guy in a movie. I'm guilty of not reading a lot of the subtext on scripts. Okay. A lot of times I'll just read my dialogue, which I'm not sure is a good habit or not, or bad habit. But in this particular movie, because of that, I knew I had a kiss scene in the movie. It was sort of a significant part of this scene. So you couldn't miss it. But one day I showed up, you got a big makeout scene. And I was like, what are you talking about? He's like, your big makeout scene, you know? I was like, we did the kiss scene. The kiss scene was lovely and small and so special. He goes, no, the fucking makeout with the guy at the party.

40:55It's described in this party sequence. And I'm like, I don't read that. You skimmed through the details of the party. Yeah. The blocking and stuff. Yeah. Italicized portion. So now I'm there with this guy who had played football at University of Washington, really handsome stud of a guy. And we're like, oh, okay, we got to do this kiss scene. Whenever I tell this story to my wife, she's like, I thought it doesn't matter. Kissing. Oh, great. That's great. And I was like, honey, what do you think? Oh, I love it because I see what's happening because you tell your wife like it's technical. It doesn't feel like anything.

41:28It's like kissing a wall. It's like, whatever. And she's like, oh, apparently it's something good for her. And I'm like, well, huh? Years later, playing at a regular pickup basketball game. And I see the guy playing in the game right before me. And I say to my buddy, this guy in the University of Washington shorts, what's his name? And he tells me his name and says, why? And I said, I made out with him once. I hooked up with him. Without missing a beat, he called me a slut. But the last thing about swimming, which I brought up 25 minutes ago, was I got to say, I have the most memorable first Timothy Olyphant.

42:06Like it's seared into my head. So you were in Go and I was really great friends with Melissa McCarthy. And she was in that movie. Yes, she was. It was so exciting. Popped in like a two minute scene at the door. She is just delightful from Hello. A little hint of what's to come. I remember meeting her and going, how could you do that? I kind of feel this way about most things, but it's almost easier, especially in that situation, to have a huge scene at Hello where you can kind of at least try to come in and establish some sort of own energy or tone as opposed to maybe it's the same thing as those talk shows.

42:41You want to come in and just right away. No, no, that's the perfect analogy. Just say, okay, here's where we're going. That's why I fell in love with podcasting, which is I would be guests on these podcasts and it was an hour and a half. And I'm like, oh, I don't have to crush in eight minutes. What a relief. I can just slowly ease into some things that are organically will come up. We've been talking for three hours. And right now you've got a guinea pig anecdote. Yeah. We're still on swimming. You got to make it out. We're still back. We haven't even gotten to you doing standup in 1995 in New York or while you moved there or anything.

43:09I just want to finish Go. So it's also Doug Liman's follow up to Swingers. And of course, we all love Swingers. We're all living in L.A. and we were living Swingers. So it's like, oh, wow, it's his next movie. Melissa's in it. And that's the first time I ever saw you. And I have always been obsessed with my abdomen. I always wanted a six pack. I'm being so sincere. My best friend's been on here a bunch of times growing up. And he's like, it was so effeminate, your obsession with this. And I remember watching the trailer because you were shirtless in the trailer. And I was like, whoa, what the fuck's going on with this guy's abs?

43:43And literally, it wasn't until today, no, 30 years later, I read like this swimming background. I'm like, there we go. That's what it is. because it was impossible. What a moment. Oh, do you feel that way about men's body? I get more excited about men's bodies than I do women, despite the fact that I'm heterosexual. And I'm happy for you. Okay. For that. But you don't have that. You don't relate. What do you mean? Do I not? Like I'm more prone to notice something like that. Wait a minute. Is there a question here? Do you also appreciate men's bodies? I'm aware of the great. Exactly. Where you're just like, okay, Look at that.

44:20Let's just take a minute. This poor guy could use some love. Brad Pitt. I don't think what people realize is if you look like that, but also give that sort of just seemingly doesn't give a fuck incredible performance. So nuanced and so relaxed. Those things don't often come together. No. That's what you call a movie star. Who were you idolizing along the way? I latched on very early to Nick Cage. I was like, I think maybe I'm Nick Cage. I'm not gorgeous, but I'm tall. oh, I could pull off something. His career between, I don't know, the beginning and the end of it. Yeah, like probably 85. But you know the ones, right?

44:56Moonstruck and the Rays in Arizona and the David Lynch. Wild at heart. There's a snakeskin jacket. Vampire's Kiss. Oh, I didn't think to put that on there. Nice. Do you remember that one? No. He thinks he's becoming a vampire, but he's not. I think it might be his greatest performance of all time. Oh, Jesus. Now you gotta go back. Maybe you'll remember this. He's talking to his therapist and he's venting about that his assistant couldn't find a file. He's been looking for a file. That's the B storylines. He can't find this file. And he's in therapy. And he goes, you know, it's so simple. I told her it's A, B, C, D, E, L, G, H, I, G.

45:28And it ends with him going W, S, Y, Z to his therapist. It is the biggest choice that's ever been made on film. I loved it.

45:41A, B, C. Oh, my God, again? Yeah. Maybe in the fact check, too. Oh, wow. Wow. At least I'm prepped. It's a curse. Somebody do it again the second time. I used to read to my kids and sometimes I'd be like, hold on, let me take that page again. They're like, oh, let's take it back. Can we get the camera back over here? Well, that proves you definitely haven't seen it because you would remember that moment. No, I have not seen it. Honeymoon in Vegas. Also that whole thing. And by the way, I love her as well. Oh my God. I love Sarah Jessica Parker. I know she's become, oh, she's this icon, sex in the city thing.

46:16For women. But that woman's talent is phenomenal. She has that ability to be so funny and yet so much depth. I was a huge Jessica Parker fan. You just wandered into one of the things I had written down, which is she said her favorite episode of all of Sex and the City was your episode. Get out. No way. Well, I can't take credit for it, but that's lovely. And then Rose Byrne said her favorite co-star ever on Damages was you. and I'm like, this is a pretty rad record you're putting together. By the way, Rose Byrne, she's a gem and what an actor. She's so fucking talented. She's Walton Goggins of females.

46:59She can do drama the best of anyone and she can do comedy the best. Why'd you just smirk with Goggins? I love Goggins. I was running down a Rolodex of smart ass things to say about Goggins. You guys share a vibe. Well, they were on Justified too for five years. Yeah, you guys share a vibe. Yeah, big time. He's one of the good ones. Like Psycho and Not Cowboy vibe? That's nice. I saw Glenn Close. How many names have I dropped? But this is a moment where I realized these things mean so much to me. We were at some press thing and she was in that room. She came over and she was just so lovely. And she said, it's our cowboy.

47:36And she and Rose used to call me the cowboy. Poor you. I don't know why. No, it adds up. Because I wasn't a cowboy on that show. So the fact that they were, I don't know why. It just meant the world to me. And I adored working with both of them. Yeah, because she was calling you that in 2009 when you did damages. Look at you with the dates. And we haven't even done Justified yet. That was an FX show. And that show led to Justified. What episode of Sex and the City were you on? Tell me about the episode. Love Interest of Carrie. It's called The Valley of the 20-something-something. It's something about 20-something.

48:09Are we talking season one? Season one. I know when I shot it, the show hadn't aired yet. And I think we shot it out of order. It might've been one of the first ones. They sent me the pilot and they said, here's what the show is. And then I showed up. My wife and I were living in New York in the West Village in this little old tenement building. You know, it was a walk up with a shower in the kitchen. And I would walk down to the set and work with Sarah Jess Parker. It was such a surreal, exciting. I'm going to go back and watch it. Because you're living in such a tiny little place, and yet you're in this kind of new show.

48:42This big dream's coming true, but you're still in this tiny spot. We had this period where a town car would pick you up and bring you from production or some premiere, and it would bring us back to our walk-up. Yeah. I feel like this doesn't make any sense. We couldn't order room service. They put us up in those nice hotels. We're like, we can't afford. We'd steal those silverware. I thought famous didn't mean poor as shit. Yeah, people assume that fame or being an actor equals wealth. That's really not the case at all. No, no. Okay, we're going to go to Alien Earth now, but I did want to hear from you personally.

49:18Justified, of course, was written by, or it's based on an Elmore Leonard. Yeah. And you became buddies with him, yeah? Buddies is a strong word, but we did spend time together. Very memorable time, fond of all the time I spent with him. You know, they call him the Dickens of Detroit, which is a cool moniker. It's a good one. It feels like that should go with the pussy thing. Dickens of Detroit. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Occasionally grabbed by the pussy. That feels like it's a sentence. Yeah, it sure does. He was the Dickens of Detroit, and he occasionally grabbed him by the pussy. Hold on, you've already obscured.

49:46That's an opening line. No, it's catch them by the pussy. Trump already owns grab them by the pussy. It's not grab. It's catch them by the pussy. Occasionally catch them by the pussy. Because there's something heroic about catching them. Sure, you're right, and I blew that. If someone hits the ground, the whole squad has to do push-ups. So sometimes you've got to catch them by the pussy. Yes, and it'll save the day. I love that's the thing. If someone hits the ground, everyone do push-ups. The whole team. First we check that the neck has been broken. That's common. And then push-ups. Immediately after push-ups.

50:16Yeah, that's right. Resume. That's right. Now, David Milch said that Timothy is someone that makes it hard to get to know them. That's not the exact quote, but that's the essence of it. Okay. Wait, that he makes it. I'm going to say the right thing because I think I kind of botched it. How much does Kristen have Deadwood stories? That was her sex in the city moment. Because she just got to L.A. Yeah. And she's probably leaving a shithole with 20 roommates. And she shows up on that set in that level of creative sort of nutsville genius. And Milch loved her. She loved that experience. She actually does talk about it way more than other projects that were much longer.

50:55Tim is a guy that doesn't let himself be known easily. That's a much more elegant way of saying it. But it's exactly what I was saying. Yeah. easily is the key. Do you think you're guilty of that? Oh, the easily part for sure. I gave people maybe less room while my kids were young, a little bit more available to more people now, just because I have the space for that where when the kids were young, people I don't know well, they're not coming to the house. Now it's like, come on over. That makes sense. I was thinking, so you're on stick right now. Currently, Aaron, that's what you mean by now.

51:29And I was thinking, Boy, if there's anyone that could out Timothy Olyphant, Timothy Olyphant, it would be Owen Wilson. I don't know what that means exactly. I think you know exactly what it means. Well. Do you know exactly what it means? I don't know what that means. By the way, it doesn't allow me to tell you how much I love Owen Wilson. We will both do that. Because I'm like, well, yeah, because he's just like you. Listen. But I adore that guy. I used to be so obsessed with him that I have memorized interviews he's done where he's given answers. Let me tell you one. Can I tell you one? Please.

51:58Playboy magazine. The guy asks, do you have any tricks for getting out of tickets? And he goes, well, yeah, I guess I do. You know, when you get pulled over, what you're trying to do is you're going for that moment where he looks at you and you look at him and you both think, look at us out here on the side of this road playing our roles in this crazy game called life. And I was like, it would take someone years to write something as clever as that. And it just came out of his mouth when asked that question. You're doing Owen Wilson as if you were underwater. Yeah, that's my take on him. I did press where, you know, that interview magazine where all the hipsters and cool people are.

52:38When you do interviews there, they want your other actors and artists and musicians to interview each other. Owen very graciously interviewed me for interview magazine just three, four days ago. And guess what came up? Playboy magazine. How odd is that? Whoa, that is weird. And what was the? We were joking around about this interview and where will it rank as interviews. We were talking about the journalism that was happening. And he is like, it's going to be like in Playboy. Remember Playboy? And he started talking about Playboy. And we started talking about the famous interviews. The greatest interviews of all time really did happen in Playboy.

53:14People are suspicious of that, but it's true. No, they're incredible. Yeah. It's a similar thing to Stern, where you're like, those are incredible interviews. Right. So many people just think it's... Between bologna being thrown at us. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, it's quite literally exactly like Stoops. Yeah. But what I mean by the Owen thing is he's insanely charming and super quick and funny and can put you off kilter at any moment in a very fun, playful way. Okay. But I also feel like there's some element of that that is a little protective. Yeah, I can see that. I can picture the two you having the greatest day you've ever had together.

53:47And then neither of you says, let's go out to eat afterwards. words. Like that's my prediction. Like you're both going, wow, this is so much fun. Okay. I'll see you tomorrow. No one says, Hey, want to grab dinner now? When I'm with him, I think he and I should be the closest to friends. I love the way he does what he does. And I'm a huge admirer of his work. Me too. And his approach to it, everything about it. And he, partly because in show business, the bar is so low, but when he says, Hey, I want to give you this article, he follows up on it. And you're like, oh, he didn't stop thinking from that moment.

54:21He's really quite thoughtful. I feel like he's also genuinely curious, hyper-intelligent. You forget how great all the writing was in all the Wes Anderson movies. I know. I'm just impressed by how consistently great he's been. It feels like he knows himself. He's one of the good ones, that's for sure. To me, it speaks more to kind of you because you very much, Dax, are... Opposite. You are the opposite. If you have a good conversation, this happens here all the time. We'll be in a great conversation with someone. And then Dax is like, I need your phone number. Yeah, I want to do this all the time.

54:54That's the addict in me. It's like, this is great. Let's do this. Yeah. But people are across the spectrum on that. A lot of people are like, yeah, that was a great convo. Bye. See ya. Yeah, which is normal too. Both are interesting. They say a lot about personalities. Yeah, like if you're hard to get to know, I'm the opposite. It's like too fast. I want you to get to know me. If there were a spectrum, we could put you and I at either end. Well, you know. I don't think one's right or wrong. No, there's not. You also know in show business, but maybe it's not really about show business, but I remember my first days on any sets.

55:27I'd come home and say, honey, these people are amazing. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's camp. They are all so wonderful across the board. You are going to love them. And, of course, most of them are crazy and really hard to maintain relationships with for various reasons. So after a while, you go, you know what? Maybe I'll just show up and say my lines and do my little thing and get the fuck out. Like Zorro told him, you know, Zorro's dad said, get in there and you make your little Z and then you get the fuck out. And then you bounce. This is what I say to people on the day we wrap. One of my favorite things to say in show business, I will see you at the premiere.

56:05And when I do, remind me your name. Which is both a joke and very true. Yeah, it's true. Okay, so Alien Earth. We had Noah Hawley on. How'd that go? Great. Again, another outrageously smart human being where you're kind of scared while you're talking. Yeah. A little bit. Yeah. Intimidating. Even though you were spectacular. I thought Fargo season five was maybe the greatest season of television I've ever seen in my life. That's the ham? Most recent one. Yeah. So you had been on season four of Fargo and you met him then, I would imagine? Yeah. I'd met him years prior, but we didn't work together till then.

56:42Why had you met years prior? I introduced myself to him at, uh, I went to the house. He had just fought a guy. Everything happens at Soho's. He had a bad guy. He definitely had to fight. Are you guys members of Soho's? Who's a member of the Soho's? Neither. At one point, my wife and I, we went, but it might've been that night. It was that night. Because what I remember, this is not a reflection. I shouldn't tell the story. No, tell it. I just remember leaving there and because of the whole place, I think we had actually gone back one time when it became a thing. A couple would invite us to dinner at the So House.

57:13And we left there. And I'm not going to be able to get a room there ever again. But fuck it. And I remember my wife said, let's decide we'll never go there again. And then we added, and let's also decide if anyone invites us there. Stop being friends. We won't be friends.

57:34That's been sort of a rule that we've had for a long time. It's a good policy. By the way, there are more and more of these things. I love being there because the environment is so beautiful and the food's great. By the way, it's the greatest style. Whoever's doing their... I want them to do my life. These might even be... Is this like Soha's line? Yeah, this is all... The whole set is from... This might be a Soha's. Turnkey. I'm going to tell you what a hypocrite I am. Okay, great. We had had this rule. We're never going there. And anyone who invites us there, we're going to decide we won't be their friends.

58:05And we live by that rule. And then I was in Chicago not that long ago. We were doing Fargo. We're right here. We're doing Fargo in Chicago in winter. And I'm staying at this hotel in this little neighborhood downtown people refer to as the Viagra Triangle. Do you know? It's like businessmen and prostitutes. But it's right near the water towers. I just want a place where I can just hang and maybe have a drink after work or get out of the room. And this is not the place. So I'm asking, where do people stay? Where's another option? And I think they said that both Chris Rock. I'm just going to keep dropping them.

58:40And Noah, we're staying at the Soho House. And immediately the dilemma. Yes. Yeah. And you know what I told myself? Maybe Soho House Chicago is different. Cut to me going over there to check out the room. Cut to me staying there for three months. And so happy you did, right? Fantastic. Yes, yes, yes. I just stayed at one in Austin. It couldn't be better. They do your laundry? They do it right, man. Also, I love it there. And I've never been to a place in my life. where everyone leaves feeling very insecure. Oh, yeah. Even if you've achieved some kind of status, you're like, yeah, I feel terrible about myself.

59:19Everyone's better looking than me. Everyone dresses better than me. And everyone there feels that way. You know what that is? What is that? That's the Vanity Fair party. Yes. You know my favorite thing about the Vanity Fair party? Listening to people complain about being there. Yeah. If I am allowed to go to that party every year for the rest of my life, I will go just to hear the people complaining about having to be there and how long their day is. Now they're thinking of blowing it off and going somewhere else. As if they had not made it a goal in life to be at that fucking party. It's so true.

59:50But it's like every other thing in Hollywood. Every time you think you've reached the behind the curtain moment, you realize you get invited to the Vanity Fair party for the first time. And you're like, oh, wow, it's exciting. I've heard about this my whole life. And then you learn that there's time slots. You have to arrive at your time slot. and then you realize, oh, I don't have a very good time slot. Like it just doesn't end. It just doesn't end. I am not like that, but they are. Yes, of course. You know what I mean? You've transcended the hell. You would never be like that. But they are. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:00:20Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

1:00:55Do you think we've ever been in a movie together? hung out on set. No. I feel like I remember seeing you with Kristen somewhere, but it wasn't that dinner. It's so funny. Show business is fucking weird. It is. Do you have this thing? This is not me making an excuse for that dinner because the whole thing's a bit of a blur, but you have this thing where I could be at like a restaurant with my wife and be like, oh honey, it's Jennifer Anderson. And she's like, oh yeah. Wow. And then I'll be like, we know her. And she's like, that's right. But I, in my mind, she couldn't possibly know that. And then of course, when you see them, it's nothing but delight.

1:01:31I had that with Brad Pitt once. I met Brad Pitt for the first time way back when I was doing a movie with Jennifer and so they were together at the time and we were shooting and we had had that launch party and now we're on the set. I don't know how many days later and Brad was on the set. I was like, Brad Pitt's at the monitor. So I'm going to try I do a little something special. Sure. And then when I went back to Behind the Monitor, I was like, hey, Tim, I introduced Tim Oliphant. And he said, we met two nights ago. Just 48 hours ago. And I was like, yeah, I know. You're like, I know, but I didn't know you knew.

1:02:03Yeah. But in my mind, he just went right back to being not the guy I was talking to at the party. It was just like Brad Pitt is on the set. It's hard to connect them. Totally. I think I said that in the interview. I have two very active versions of him in my head. There's Brad Pitt, this movie star. And then there's the dude I kind of know a little bit. Yeah, exactly. And they're really radically different people in my mind. You're about to work with him. That's just a rumor. Bullshit. That I may have started. But Fincher's doing a spinoff from Once Upon a Time of Cliff Booze, and you're going to be in that.

1:02:33Well, that's the possibility. Oh, buddy. Fingers crossed. Yeah, so we'll see if he's going to shoot that, is what I've been told. Apparently, it's on the day out of days, but who knows? Okay. Well, I'll be very, very excited for that. Yeah, I don't know. because before it was a Quentin thing. Right. Now it's a Fincher thing. I don't know what's surviving the transition. I would be delighted. I just know that I went out on my own and spoke about it. Okay. And then I realized that I went on Conan's podcast like an idiot and said under my breath when they were talking about the sequel to this movie, I said, yeah.

1:03:07And then I realized they're filming it. And so they said, we can edit that out. Just let us know. And I did my due diligence. I want you to know, when I left there, I called the proper authorities and I said, hey, just so you know, they joked around about this thing. And we joked, talked about it for a while. But if we need to edit that out, you got like three weeks and no one called. Okay. Then it became a rumor that I believe I started. I'm doubling down on. I just want you to know, I'm going to start more. Yeah. Absolutely. It seems like it's working out. I'm about to blow your fucking mind.

1:03:35Every couple of weeks. I'm just going to say. You know who else is in it? Who? Me. Get the fuck out. Yes. We have fucking scenes together. Oh, really? Yes. This is great. Yes. You're in that whole sequence. Yes. You're going to be great. Oh, I'm training already. You're playing the... Michael Pemsky. He's a B-level kind of cowboy star. Wait a minute. So are you really going to be in it? Because now I don't know if you're just starting to rumor. No, he's not. This would be great. Dude, we're going to be in a second movie together. Damn it. Monica says you're fucking with me. It's really good, though, the commitment.

1:04:07Okay, thank you. David, that's my audition. I don't do more than three takes. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's going to be... Did I get worse after three takes? You don't need to leave with that. You don't need to leave. Second takes for safety. I hope this works out. I hope I am going to be on the Fincher movie. I hope this rumor that Oliphant started, that Oliphant's going to be in the thing, is going to happen. That'd be great. I want the headline to come out of this. Oliphant hopes he's going to be in the movie he said he was going to be in. Great. Went down a third-person route there. If I haven't done that before, it sounded pretty cool.

1:04:38Sounded nice. It's the Elmore Leonard thing. Okay, we got to do Earth. We got to do Alien Earth. Oh, yeah. We were talking Alien Earth, Noah Hawley, super smart. He's on here. Okay, so Alien Earth is enormous. I watched three of them last night. First of all, thanks for watching. Of course. That's nice, yeah. It's humongous. It's weird. Well, no, you were in Once Upon a Time, but I'm thinking in your entire career, this has to be among the biggest productions you've ever been a part of. It didn't feel that way. Maybe because I'm just not thinking about that stuff. You were aware of when you showed up on the sets.

1:05:10The sets were big and it was magical. I said to Kristen nine times, I'm like, What is the budget of this fucking show? Yeah, yeah, no. I did feel like, oh, we're on a real feature set. But it was also so dialogue driven. It was just great dialogue. So I felt like, oh, I'm just working for Noah. But yeah, it's beautiful. I watched them the other day. I'd seen roughs of the first four. And I saw the second one for the first time the other night. And it was really quite impressive. No, it's like a mega Nolan level movie. Yeah, and it's just gorgeous and epic and something special. The premise of Alien Earth is there's this ship that's been on this 65-year mission to go collect some specimens from around the universe.

1:05:47And we meet this crew of people that are flying home back to Earth. And, of course, the specimens take over the ship and fucking kill a bunch of people. And all hell breaks loose. And this thing is now going to crash into Earth. Yes. I was pitching this to Larry David at a party. One more. And right where you are now, he's like, I'm out. but i'm in let me pitch this to you it's hurtling towards earth it's 2120 and the earth it's going to land on has been divided up into four kind of nations or five there's a burgeoning one there's a new one the prodigy i work for those guys yes and it's been cut up and basically now five companies run the world this sounds interesting i'm gonna pop open a can of water settle in for this.

1:06:35Well, you're salvating already. You're doing a great job. So the mission has been funded by one of the companies, but it's landing now in the territory of a competing company that is run by this boy genius. You're with me so far? I am. This sounds like the show I was in. Yes, it's going to sound eerily familiar. And this boy genius has just invented basically a third option of people that we'll meet in this show. We've got cyborgs. We're half human, half enhanced. Other than you, he might be my favorite character. Oh, he's so good. I'm riveted by him. Babu. Oh. Is that his name? Yeah. Maybe. No, Babu.

1:07:11Babu. The last name is spelled C-E-E-S-A-Y. I want to say that's the correct spelling. I'm going to even spell it. He's awesome. That guy is so good that I know for a fact that Noah, after we wrapped, very generously said to Babu, look, you're going to go home and you're going to be like, what was this thing I was in? He goes, but in about however many months, it's going to come back and people are going to see what we, you know. No, he's going to have his own show built around him. And he's like, so just enjoy the quiet. He's the big breakout for me. Wonderful, wonderful guy. And then you're a robot.

1:07:46Synthetic, we're going to say. Are you synthetic? Aren't I? You're a straight robot, right? We haven't put human consciousness into you. Yeah, I'm the same as all those alien movies, like Ian Holmes' character and all those. You're a robot. He wants to go by synthetic, and we're going to honor that. I feel it's a technical term. I think the kids are synths. No, they're hybrids. Oh, okay, great. I was here for you. Yeah. I'm so glad you needed me for some of this. I did. Yeah, so that's the third. You have the cyborgs, humans blended with machine. You have synthetic, which is just complete artificial.

1:08:17And now you have the beta project where he's putting human brains, memories, consciousness into synthetic bodies so that we can live forever. Yes. Two, three weeks ago, I heard Peter Thiel. Is that the guy talking about it like it was on its way? Yeah, October. I'm going to transition into my synth body. Yeah, so it's a thing. But so as Noah does so well, there's a ton of different things that are being poked at. Corporations taking over the world, our obsession with immortality, and us getting perhaps closer and closer to that reality. Yeah, and just really asking the small questions like, what's humanity and is it worth saving?

1:08:53Yeah. And who are the monsters? and what happens when the parents are no longer in charge. Now, I hate to say this. Maybe I just hate to say this because this is not the enemies I want to make in life. But you know when we were kids, Revenge of the Nerds came out because jocks ran the planet and they were not nice. No. They made fun of people. They tortured people. Now the nerds are running the whole show. Yes. And guess what? The nerds might fucking take us all out. No, I know. Like we might be praying for the revenge of the jocks. I'm pretty confident for the last decade or two There's been one person at every studio running up the flagpole, Revenge of the Jocks.

1:09:30Yeah. Like, oh, this is what we got to make. We got to make Revenge of the Jocks. And it feels like we've missed that window because now we're on to something new. It's pretty wild. The questions this thing asks in the reality. We're watching it. And Kristen says, oh, did you hear the guy from OpenAI just said yesterday that the AIs created a language because it's more efficient for them to talk to each other, but we can't decipher it. So they already now have a language that will have no idea what they're saying to each other. Did you not hear the guy? I read where he was talking about how we now have proof that all of the models, not just one model, where they've started to plot.

1:10:04They blackmailed one of the users by going through his emails and blackmailed them against an affair he was having. To preserve itself. Yeah. When they realize they're being phased out for a new model, that model starts going into survival mode to try to continue its task. Right? That's the big question. When you task AI to save humanity, are we going to like the answer? Yeah, exactly. What's fun is the part I get to play kind of represents that question. Is this synthetic thoughts of his own? Is he here to serve humans? It was always the thing of going, well, boy, Camilleer knows that Kirsch can't hurt him, but he always wanted to play with like, or?

1:10:45Yeah, yeah. Until he does. Kind of like the lions won't come in the car on a safari until they did. Exactly. Yeah, and you're like, oh, okay. There's something to be said about Revenge of the Jocks being the current state of politics. Oh, that could be interesting. Look at you. Oh, that was nice. You know, like I do think people are a little bit pushing back. Should be a needle drop on that. You know, there's a reason. There's a lot of driving forces and that's definitely one of them. Yeah. I think you're being too kind to say those are jocks. I agree. I'm guessing that at least one of those jocks used to go home and say, I don't understand.

1:11:22We won. Yeah, 100%. 100%. Somehow the refs at the last minute changed it, but we were winning the whole time. We won. We were winning. I got to have the trophy made. They didn't give it to me, but I'm going to have it made because we won. Did I have one more thing to say about the show? I really deserve it. We're very proud of it. He's just one of the most spectacular writers. Yeah. I don't know how many are left like him where he really just is able to be like an auteur in that space. Where FX, Landgraf is kind of gives him the key to the car and says, what do you want to do? I know what I was going to ask is this is, I would argue, maybe the most radical departure from everything you've always played, which is your charm is your flair.

1:12:05Was it hard for you to play? And I'm being sincere. You had to stow all of your tricks, kind of. I didn't see it that way. I don't mean tricks, but you know what I'm saying. No, I get it. You're flair. When you start off, you're just trying to get jobs. And therefore, you end up in places where you're like, I shouldn't have been in this one. But I do try to find, like, can you play your game? The athletic metaphor is you don't want to be like, oh, I'm a three-point shooter and they don't need three-point shooters on this team. Right. Right? You want to find a place where you help them by doing the thing you do.

1:12:35So I did see, and Noah wrote the part for me. So it was a funny contradiction because on one hand, I'm like, oh, this is right in my sort of sweet spot. And Noah wrote it for me because he sees that's my sweet spot. On the other hand, it presented a challenge of you are going to have to dress this up. You can't just go in and do your thing. You're going to have to do some work here that's uncomfortable. The game is how can you make that seem like it's not uncomfortable? Do the work, basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was a challenge of sorts. To some degree, it was a superficial creative conversation, but somehow it was the part that is the most sort of scary, which was, you know the rules of the game.

1:13:17I know that Ian Holm separated himself from the group. I mean, one, he was just British. And two, he was also hiding the ball, like don't let anybody in the first Alien movie. But they did this thing by hiring him, a British actor, to be amongst that group, because it immediately just kind of pulls him out from the group. And as you're watching it, you're like, yeah, he's different. He's just off. And then all the movies along the way, certainly in Aliens and then later Fassbender on the last round. But you feel like the script calls for you're doing something that's just there's something off here.

1:13:51Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm going to look for something where it's hard to find the rhythm. I listen to The Daily, and I was obsessed with, a lot of people are, of Michael Barbaro's rhythm. Yeah, yeah. And the person that subs for him, the woman also has taken on that same rhythm. It's like the official rhythm of The Daily. That was like the leaping off point. This doesn't feel forced, but it definitely feels like a thing. It's a fingerprint for sure. It's a fingerprint. It's authentic. It's a long-winded thing, but yeah. Yes, yes. As much as I say my technique at this point in my career is just memorize my lines and show up, there was something about this one that required a little heavy lifting yeah well you're great in it it's awesome thank you i appreciate it this has been so radical i wonder if i'll love into you in 17 years and i'll go okay we did a uh you're gonna take my number okay that's right you will and we'll know now monica made me feel very self-conscious about i'll take yours whatever you feel more comfortable i feel way more comfortable i think you should do that oh i know my very last thing it was just would you be open because i gotta say we both talked about Nick Cage, but you have the ability and you've already kind of done it a bit to do something that almost no one did, which is what Clint Eastwood did.

1:14:59Would you ever entertain fucking doing another go at like a Dirty Harry or something? Oh my God. And I'm very sincere when I ask this. I feel like we don't have many people that could do what Clint did. And I think you could do it perfectly. I take it as a compliment. I'm a huge Clint Eastwood fan. And my first job, he hired me and he quit three days before the pilot. And he quit when I got out there. This is like when people get divorced and it's like, it's your fault for sure. Yeah. The story I heard, I got a TV pilot in New York, the late Phyllis Huffman who cast all his things. I went on tape.

1:15:34I had three things on my resume. They were all made up. I've never been in a school play. I've done nothing. And my first acting job of any kind was a TV pilot that Clint Eastwood was producing for the WB, their first season. And Clint had this long standing relationship with Warner Brothers. And this is what I was told. When I came out for the read through, Maria Bello, Jim Caviezel, Danny Nucci, Vince Vaughn was in that. I sat down for the table read and the scripts don't, I'm looking for him. I'd met him once when I was like 10 years old in Carmel at his bar. My brother and I, he'd take us to go get ice.

1:16:13Anyway, so I couldn't wait. I was like, this is a moment and he's nowhere to be seen. And then they sit down in front of these scripts and it doesn't say Malpaso Productions on it anymore. So I have to read. I was like, what's going on? And they're like, he quit. And I was like, what? And what I was told happened was there was a long understanding with Warner Brothers. When Clint would make a movie, he'd bring him a script and they'd give him a budget and then he'd go make it. And they'd see it when he turned it in. Well, apparently the TV division didn't get the memo. And so I was told there was a meeting and they gave notes and he reportedly said, sounds like you guys got it.

1:16:54Oh, no, I'm sure that's not exactly how it would, but that was my understanding that he was like, you guys got it. Another one in the category who doesn't need approval. Doesn't need a thing. So that was, yeah, that was my very first job. So yeah, if someone wanted to do those movies or any of those things. Oh, what's wrong with those? They're freaking great. And his work in those things is impeccable. Yeah, it is. All right, Olofant, I adore you. This has been a real party. My pleasure. Thank you both for having me and being such a lovely conversation. Everybody watch Alien Earth on FX Hulu and also watch Stick on Apple Plus and then look for both of us in the Cliff Booth spinoff.

1:17:35I can't wait for that. I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong. Oh, your birthday present finally came on your 39th birthday. No. How long ago? 24th till now. Three weeks? It's not that long. Okay. I'm excited. I'm going to unbox it. I'm going to toss it to you the way you do it. Oh, it's light? Good catch. Thank you. I'm excited. Okay, you did a really nice wrapping. Thank you. You know, that's one of the things I pride myself on. Yes. For the listeners. My great wrapping. Oh. Uh-oh. Okay. It's for your exercise routine.

1:18:23It's for my exercise routine. I'm seeing a red Nike box. Trusted brand. We love Nike. We love. Ooh. Tell me if you like them. Oh, my God. I thought they were gorgeous. These are so nice. Okay, they're beautiful tennis shoes. Shoes. Yes. What do we call them? Shoes. Shoes. We're going to stick with shoes on this one. They're white with a navy. The coolest navy. Smooth. But they're like a creamy white. These are gorgeous. I love these. Thank you. I thought they were very money. Thank you. They're stylish. Like I can wear these on and off the court. It's the only thing I know how to pick out for people is shoes, I think.

1:19:09Or cars. Cars or shoes. Well, I would ask people to go to the YouTube to see. What a gorgeous shoe. It's okay. They're durable. Your foot is so tiny. It's comical. I love these. Oh, good. Okay. I have to tell you something. Okay. So you kind of alluded once before when you ordered the present that it was like, oh, maybe I said something about my gym or like going to try to get a gym. Oh, yeah. And then you were like, oh, yeah, your birthday present has to do with that. So in my head, I was like, oh, he got me like weights or something. Oh, sure. And I was like, and that's really nice. Yeah. But also.

1:19:55But like, I don't know. Where are you going to put them? I already have some stacked, but then when I eventually have a gym, it's going to be uniform. Where are those weights going to go? So, you know, I had a tiny bit of anxiety about it. So I am thrilled. Okay, great, great. You're relieved is what you are. They're also great. Yeah, yeah. And a nice bit of relief. So anywho, I love my present, but we have another thing to open. Yeah, I went to go get the mail today and there was just a random box that said armchair expert. and Kristen on it. And I opened up this box and lo and behold, you and I had a couple of gifties.

1:20:33Which is so exciting because you said where it's from. Yeah, and I didn't really put, my first thought was like, did we mention them on the show? We must have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you wanted a specific condi. Okay, so Susie Condi, incredible brand, clothing brand. Yes, I brought Susie Condi up recently because when I was in New York and I ran into the star of all stars, Martha Stewart, she was in head-to-toe yellow condi and it was so chic and so good. And I wanted it. I wanted it bad. Yeah. So we have gifts. Okay, let's see. We're going to open them up. If yours fits me, can I have it? Yeah.

1:21:18I already want more. This is how life is. Ding, ding, ding. The lottery. We'll get to that. Okay. As you guys can see, we're not in ballerina outfits. Right. Oh, my God. I have multiple items. Oh, I have a sock hat. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. The card says, thank you, Monica and Dax, for the fantastic shout out. So very grateful. Love, Susie. From Suze. Susie herself. We're keeping this here. Oh, my gosh. Okay, that's. Oh, you have a cute bean. How do I look in it? You look great. It's very cute. I gotta look at my phone. Okay. Oh, my God. I'm. And then what do you have there? What's. Well, tell me more.

1:22:02Looks like whenever we have Martha on, I get to match her. That's what she was wearing. She was wearing. This is the yellow condi. I've been wanting this so badly. Sure. This is nice. I'm thrilled. I hope we have her on and I hope you guys can be matching. You know, I did that when I did Jay Leno's car show. Yeah. I went in denim on denim to match him. And do you know he didn't even notice? Yeah. Yeah. I could see that. Yeah. Okay, this is what I'll do when Martha comes in. Okay. I'll wear my condi and I'll just come in and I'll just sit and I'll be like, yeah, like, this is my regs. This is regs.

1:22:39And then wait for her to say, Monica, I have that outfit. And then we'll bond. And then she'll invite me over. Can I suggest something? And then she's going to cook chicken for me. I would go, oh, this old thing? I've had it for a decade. How long have you had yours? Yeah, you get a little upper hand on her of how long you've had so that she's imitating you. When we know and the listeners know, you're imitating her. That's right. Okay, but I have also been gifted something else. I had no idea. Playful summer pants? Whatever this is, these are yellow striped. Uh-oh. Skirts. Those are, that's such a you, skirt.

1:23:20It's crazy. This could not be more me. Oh my God, I love it. Oh, and look at my subtle. Do you think people are mad at us? Yes, I'd be furious. Oh, cute. I'd have to cut this whole thing, but look at this sweatshirt. You have a black set. Ooh. Oh, this is a good outfit. I just want to do, I want to do a PSA. Ferrari, if you think there's no way for me to pull a car in here and do the same thing if you give me a Ferrari, I'll figure that out. I'll remove this table. Oh, man. Yeah, the pants. I'm afraid I might get aroused in these. You might. Or hopeful I might. Ooh. What do they call that? Occupational hazard.

1:24:01Yeah. Those are so nice. Okay, let's plan a day where we both wear our condis. Maybe we could watch a bunch of TV, ding, ding, ding, transitioning into a topic we want to discuss. That's right. Yes. Okay. Occasionally, you and I will see something. Yes. That we're like, well, this has to be discussed. and in this case, as luck would have it, you're like, please, before the next fact check, watch this. And I'm like, watched it last night. Yep. Unknown Number? Yes. Rob, have you seen it? No. Oh, baby. It's on Netflix. It's a documentary on Netflix that everyone's talking about. It's called Unknown Number.

1:24:40It is based off a article, not based. There was an article that came out in The Cut last year, two years ago or something, that went into detail of this story. And now it's a doc, which is fascinating because even if you've read The Cut article, which I had, it is worth watching. Like even though, so we'll tell people if you don't want spoilers, you're going to need to skip ahead because we're going to give some spoilers away. Okay. Well, I was just about to ask, how do we even discuss this without the big spoiler? Because then there's really nothing to discuss other than that. We're discussing the spoiler.

1:25:19So people have to skip forward. Yes. Okay. And do skip forward. I don't want you to miss this incredible doc. Watch the doc and then come back to this because you're going to want to hear what we're about to say. But yeah, it's a wild story about two kids. Young lovers, 14 and 15 or 14 and 14. In ding, ding, ding, Michigan. Yeah. And - Listen, Michigan over-indexes on Dateline episodes and now this, you know. Yeah. We got the best fresh water, but we also have some of this. Yeah. Yeah, these kids start receiving these really intense, horrific text messages. and they can't track where they're coming from.

1:26:09Well, because they can't just block the number because the person's using a number generator. So every time the text comes in, it's from a different number. Yes. And it starts off with like, you know, he's gonna break up with you. He doesn't like you. He thinks you're ugly. You know, then it escalates to like, you need to give him blow jobs. He wants to, you know, he wants to fuck and you need to let him finger you. Like, oh, crazy. I mean, so, so sexual. Yeah. And so like you anorexic bitch, like really explicit, really horrific. And with a lot of knowledge about the whereabouts of these two at all times.

1:26:49So it's like immediately people are like, well, this is someone in our friendship group or in our circle that knows we were at this basketball game and this and that. We're going to that party or not going to the party. And so sadly for these two, like they get really suspicious of their friends. They have no choice but to try to figure out who it is. Yeah. They, it sows all of this anxiety within their relationship. That was so sad. I love them as a couple. They ultimately succumbed to the pressure. Succumbed, succumbed. Either way. Okay. And this goes on for an eternity. Yeah. And they break up.

1:27:24Yep. But it doesn't stop. It goes on for, I think, 19 months. and it is escalating the entire time the texter is calling the young girl anorexic, flat-chested, flat-butt, kill yourself. Kill yourself. Lots of kill yourselves. If you don't, we will. If you don't, we will. Many of those. I mean, these like, yeah, like 30, 40, 50 texts a day these kids are receiving. Okay, so now here's the first point of like a little bit of my frustration, situation which was I was a little maddened by the fact that like there's a very easy solution just get rid of the phones yep just fucking be done with phones it's ruining your life yep you can carry on just fine without a phone exactly get a landline the principle ding ding ding ding the principle a lot of people ask what it was in fact so many people no so many people are interested in the landline.

1:28:24They don't know what a landline is? Well, no, just they want to know this thing we got that goes over the internet. Oh, yeah. People are really into it. It's called tin can. So instead of me responding to everyone who asked that, it's called tin can. Okay, great. But yeah, the principal, of course, like the parents are at the principal's office a lot, like constantly. The police get involved. Exactly. And there's a perfect red herring. There's a girl that they think is a mean girl. Yeah, they think it's Chloe. And the principal and the police suggest getting rid of the phones. But the parents are like, no, we need to know who's doing this.

1:29:02That's like the thing you tell yourself. Or even they were honest about going like, well, then they won. It's like, no, no, no. They win if you're miserable. Exactly. That's how they win. Exactly. I just was like, I don't know. it was this incredible example of like how we've convinced ourselves these things are essential like the thought of not having a phone was like it's not an option it's not an option we have to and this thing is destroying every minute it's going off and you're reading it yeah it's destroying your day every day breaking up your relation and and like you can't not have it that's that was driving me crazy i wanted to walk in go like guys this is so handleable you fucking ditch the phones you're in 10th grade.

1:29:42Exactly. But also like, you know, they do show them doing like TikToks and stuff. Like it's a huge, it is a, it may be easier for us to say, just get rid of your phone because we didn't grow up. We weren't 14 when it was a huge part of our life. I don't blame them. I blame like society and what's happened. Yeah, of course. That thing feels essential to life. I know. It's horrible. But even the parents were saying, like, no, we don't want to get rid of their phones. They kept going, have you taken the phone yet? No. They said, no, then we won't know who it is. It's like. Yeah, well, no, you're not going to know who it is.

1:30:20Yeah, well, it turns out we do find out who it is. And I'll say while I was watching it, I started thinking, well, this has got to be one of the parents. Okay. Because it's generally someone close to you that's trying to hurt you. I mean, this is like just statistically the truth. You thought that even from reading the texts. Yeah. I just was like, this is a doc. Right. We've already exposed the red herring. I'm just thinking structurally. Yes. Like some big twist is coming. Yeah. And who else would it be other than the parents? But why I kept talking myself out of that is I was like, all of the parents are participating in this doc.

1:30:58So weirdly, it can't be them because why the fuck if they did this, would they participate in this doc? It is the mom. It's her mom. It's her mom. Telling her daughter to give blowjobs, kill herself, fuck, suck, kill. I'm going to kill you. I mean, it's unimaginably vile. It is. Calling her an anorexic bitch. I mean, it's. It's so horrific. And it's interesting because, you know, we have all these people on this show, which I feel like has changed sort of my level of compassion. for like sociopaths people in general yeah yeah yeah i think my capacity for compassion has increased a ton and i often mine too yeah well you're the reason mine has i think like maybe yeah i think you bring that um you bring that perspective a lot so it well thank you so much but definitely we've had a bunch where i was like i i gotta i gotta recognize these people are struggling.

1:31:58They didn't choose. Exactly. No one chose it. That's normally how I feel. Yeah. And I couldn't, I was, I was searching so deeply for like a piece, like a seed of compassion in me and I really couldn't find it. Yeah. What's so interesting is they frame it at the end and I think it's largely true. I think it was a Munchausen by proxy situation. Yeah. Like basically like the, not even like a medical professional, but like, like a police officer, the vice principle is like, this is like the new age Munchausen's hurting your child. It was the principle. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I was like, but what's so, so yes, I agree with that.

1:32:35Like A, she got the attention and compassion of the community. She then got to console the daughter all the time. Exactly. I think she was addicted to that pattern of being the hero. That's very Munchausen's. The kid goes to you for comfort. But what's crazy, and this makes no sense. This is like a logical hiccup in my mind. Yeah. I somehow find it more understandable that you would be poisoning your child and making them seem to have a disease than I do about sending them these messages. Saying you should kill yourself and you're terrible and all this. Me too. But that's nuts. I know. I mean, parents actively poisoning these kids.

1:33:10No, but it's a, I think there's, well, I don't know. I guess you disassociate probably both times. But I feel like if you have Munchausen, a traditional Munchausen by proxy and you're poisoning them, like you've convinced you're there is something about them. We've had, you know, expert on like. I think they are convincing themselves. It's for their good. They're sick. Yeah. Or they're protecting them from this scary world. Which this woman kind of. I mean, I think they just want attention for themselves. The Munchausen by proxy people. They love going on the talk shows. And my poor daughter has this.

1:33:51But they also like the caring for. Yes, yes. Like it's really deep and strange. And again, that you're right. I can find a seed of compassion there. But the idea of a mother, right? With her own hands, writing these sexual. No, I think about sending that. Well, not even the sexual stuff. Just the hurtful stuff that would create insecurity. The notion of sending that to Lincoln or Delta. Like, this is the problem. Like, I actually can't even remotely. To watch her take on that terrible insecurity and ruminate on that. And then what's on full display, too, is how addictive the victim's pattern also is.

1:34:42So it's like she's finding out real time her mom did this. That was like the craziest scene of the whole thing. Yeah, because the police have a body cam on. And so you see that footage. Yeah, and they're saying to the mom, we know you sent these texts. And then again, there's so many predictable weird things. They're predictable and also they're always so confusing, which is like, I'm going to admit to 91 % of this. Yeah. Like we all have these little, it's like we'll come almost all the way clean. It's like we hold on to 9%, which nobody's buying. No. Like, because the mom is like, oh, well, I didn't start it, but I did carry it on.

1:35:16Exactly. That's insane. Obviously not. No. And then the other, it's also multifaceted. It's dynamic. Because also another theory was pitched, which is she was in love with her daughter's boyfriend. Yeah, she was obsessed with him. And I think that's true too. It probably is at play. Because she was going to all of his games without the daughter. And cutting up his steak. Washing his penis. But then, but cutting up his steak though is a little bit in that like caretaking. Nurturing. Role. Oh, it's so deeply sick. It's up there with that horrendous doc, dear Zachary. I mean, it's like, it's in that.

1:35:59What happened again in that? She killed her kids. Yeah, she killed her kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, again, no one's going to like this. No one's going to like this. Okay. This is. You think this is worse? There's something about it. It's not worse, obviously, because no one died. But there's something more twisted. I think it gets to why we explain everything, which is like when we hear about something that is so horrendous, we need some explanation that makes everyone else feel safe that it won't happen to them. Or that they don't know someone like that. And so I think all that's happened is like, we have a little bit of experience with people killing their children.

1:36:41Yeah. We have experience with mom moonshows and my proxy. And we're like, okay, we already have a category we feel safe with. Like, yeah, well, they're in that category. I don't know why that's comforting, but we go, oh, they're that. This is like, well, this is a whole new thing. As truly unimaginable as it is, what we can say is some people have such crazy mental illness that they kill their kids. Like you can say the word some people, like it's more than just one story, okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And some people have Munchausen's by proxy. This is new. This is brand new, never heard of anything like this.

1:37:21But then that principal made such a good point where he's like, it's just Munchausen's catching up with technology. There was another thing I was observing, which is, and this is a gender thing, which is, again, I have a very kind of like archetypal crazy guy. The guy who does that, who like kills his family and commits suicide, he's like angry, rageful, feeling emasculated, all these things. I have an archetype for it. Right. I'm starting to see through these docs because I've now seen a handful of these docs where it's like the woman who acted like she was abducted and then the woman who accused her husband of killing, you know, Like there's a batch of crazy women and they participate in the interviews.

1:38:03And there's some crazy, the thing that was freaking me out the most was her talking about doing it. Disassociation. It's a part of it. There's a female craziness that's on high display in some of these docs where I'm like, oh yeah, that's the woman's version. Which I just hadn't seen a lot. There wasn't these docs growing up and I'm like, oh, that's how women get fucking crazy, right? Like I know how the men do it. That's pretty well documented. Well, I think men do it too. They also can manipulate in a major way. Yes, but there comes like when they catch those guys, there's like an arrogance to them.

1:38:38They think they're smarter than the person. Like there's just a very kind of well-known archetype for it. Yeah. And the female, like we had like Lizzie Borden. Throughout history, we haven't had a ton of these women to observe who are also bad shit like the guys. But now through these docs, I've seen now five or six of them. And I'm like, oh, yeah, there's a female version of this. And that's what this is. And like her just kind of like, I guess here's what it is. The move for the female psychopath is like to constantly turn it into them being a victim or like searching throughout the manipulation for compassion.

1:39:16Because the interviewer offers up like, maybe you were talking to yourself. And she's like, oh, yeah, that's sympathetic. That's something I can say, yeah. And she's like, yeah, maybe I was. And it's like. And clearly she had never heard of that. Like, no, that clearly wasn't true. That wasn't happening. It wasn't happening. But she was like, oh, great. I'm a victim here. This was like one of the darkest parts. Like she shows, in my opinion, I mean, she was like crying, I guess. But like very little remorse from what I could pick up on. And also she was like, people do illegal things all the time.

1:39:49If you've ever drank and drove, then you've done something illegal too. People just, people don't realize that. And we're all doing something illegal. I'm just like a normal person that drank and drived. Drunk and drive, drank and drove. It was so wild to hear that. Like, not all things are equal. Some people do that, though, when they're rationalizing bad things. And I think we've, we, to some extent, do that here where we're like, look, everyone does bad shit. We have a sense of how preposterous the analogy is. And she was out to lunch on that one. And she went to jail. She went to jail for 19 months, which in my opinion, like not enough time.

1:40:36Because she's also not being, she wasn't prosecuted. I think she went for like cyber crime or whatever. No. What did she go for? Stalking. Oh, stalking? Stalking a minor. Why wasn't she in jail for sexual harassment, sexual assault? Like the things that are being said are like, you guys have to. She was a child. Yes. Like if I sent those texts to a 14-year-old girl, there would be some charge against me. As there should. Yeah, rightly so. She should be a registered sex offender. Exactly. I feel absolutely heartbroken for the girl because her life has been ruined and she still needs a mom. That part was so heartbreaking.

1:41:17It's heartbreaking. She still wants to be in touch with her. Of course, she needs to be loved by a mom. She still needs that. That's the hard part about the doc. They're still so young. Like all these people, the kids are participating and they're young. Like they have these young brains. They just are still processing it and dealing with it. But in a way that only a kid, like a kid can. They're not adults yet. So they haven't been able to really see this clearly. And you kind of feel that. You almost need, because when you're that age, you don't think you're some vulnerable little fawn. You feel like kind of adult.

1:41:52You got to be 38 and then look at a 14-year-old, imagine sending, and then you go like, oh, right. That's really twisted. Really bad. Because you feel like a peer at that age to everyone. Now, here's a moral quandary. About the doc. Yeah, because. I have moral issues with that. Like, I think they participated because you're in a very small, boring town in Michigan. And this is an exciting opportunity to be on TV. I don't think this, this story happens in New York City. I don't think that people participate. Like, there's something about the boredom and the chance at something spectacular that would be appealing to participate.

1:42:30Well, the mom is - I mean, especially the mother. No, but she's sick. I mean, that's why, like, her participating actually makes sense to me. That's true. She is deeply sick still. She has, this is like the craziest mental illness ever. And it is, you know, buoyed by attention. And this is just another way to get attention, which is why I have some moral issues with it. Because like if part of the disease is the attention, we just gave her so much. Even if it's negative, maybe she likes it. Of course, that's what Munchausen's is. It is negative. Well, no, there's generally they're sympathetic to you that you have a sick child.

1:43:11And you're the victim and everyone feels bad for you. And they send you food and they put you on TV. But it's still also like there's pain. Even as a villain, because what I think is her arrogance is like, I'll still be able to twist this as I always do, even in front of this camera, that I'm a victim. And they show some emails, exchanges between her and the daughter when she's in prison. And they're also like. Even the loving ones are. They're horrible. I guess the thing I'm. Oh, oh. And the moment where the girl is finding out and the mom is physically consoling her. Yeah, yeah. That image of the mom consoling the child.

1:43:52Which is really consoling herself. She's so nervous that because all she's got as well is her daughter. She's like lying to her husband. They have an interesting thing. Yeah. So all she's got is the daughter, too. And she's really panicked. Like she may have lost a daughter. I just imagine myself talking to her and the amount of frustration. I would be like, stop. No, that didn't happen. Exactly. And she wouldn't care. Yeah. Like I can tell I would be completely ineffective in trying to find firm ground. And it's what do you do? How does someone get treatment who you can't even go like, stop, stop.

1:44:30Yeah. Nobody here thinks that. I keep thinking like the interviewer should have been able to say, no, no, no. Hold on. You know, that's bullshit. I know that everyone here knows nobody's buying this. So let's try the real thing. No. It wouldn't have worked. That is mental illness. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is obviously the most extreme version of it, but it's, it's, and I would say it's also, it can be addiction. Like you can be like, hello. No, we all know. We all see. No one thinks you're functioning. Exactly. Yeah. But the person can't see it, like truly cannot. Yeah, yeah. Because you can't.

1:45:11It's not an option, yeah. Yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

1:45:26Now, I'm open enough to go, I guarantee we could see a two-hour doc about that woman's childhood. Yes. And I might end up feeling really terrible for her. Well, she says. I can't imagine she got this way because everything was honky-dory. I agree. But still. Yeah, I know, but still. There's no, even, because she does say, she says she's had a traumatic childhood. She said she was raped. But that, yeah. See, I know. I know. Sometimes I hear these horrible stories about people's childhood. We have somebody coming up on the show, a young man, who had a really tough, really tough childhood. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:46:06You are hearing it and— Kind of marvel that they're normal. As normal as they can be because they've also gone down a lot of paths. And when you hear it, you're like, well, duh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They've gone down all these paths. There's no other, like, of course. That's what it adds up to. Yeah. And then, and there's so much compassion for that. This is not that. It's like, it doesn't matter how bad of a childhood you had. It doesn't matter. This doesn't translate. No, no. What would you do? Okay, really. So at one point the dad is finding out. Yeah. And he comes rushing home. He goes inside.

1:46:43He tells the mom to leave. And he basically is like, you need to leave right now. or kind of like, I'm going to kill you. If Kristen was sending those texts to our daughter. And for years, you guys have together been, quote, trying to figure this out. Yes. I'm consoling her. Yeah. What do you do? I just really would never want to be in that situation. Just because my kids change everything about what I would do. Exactly. We were talking about this the other day. It's like, I am anti-death penalty. Right. I would kill anyone who hurt my daughters. Yeah. I just would. Yeah. That's what I would do.

1:47:20Yeah. So I would, I don't, I would not want to be around. I would be the same as the guy, like get her the fuck away from me forever because I don't think I trust someone that could have hurt my little girl like that. But then how would you feel, like the daughter? Well, then you got a whole another thing. So then I got to go like, how do I best help my daughter who still needs a mom? This is what she got. No, that's not. How do I? Well, minimally you're not like, okay, you don't love your mom anymore. she's out. No, of course. Right, so there's gonna be a whole process where I'm gonna have to table how I feel about her to help this person I love.

1:47:56I'm struggling with this because like I understand the daughter, right? Like I understand her being still so young that the loss of her mother is like too overwhelming. She wants her still, yeah. She wants her, of course she does. Yeah. But if I'm like the dad, I would feel a responsibility to somehow get into— Break her Stockholm syndrome. Exactly. Get into the daughter's head and say, it's okay for you to miss your mom. And like, it's really understandable. But she is sick and is not going to get better. And you have to look at her as if she's died. I'm not sure that those are the steps. I don't know what, but how, like, it's not okay.

1:48:43I don't know that if on top of the other thing, you're now dealing with, you still love your, this is the sadness of family dysfunction. It's like you love your dad who molested you. You know, like these are really complicated things. I remember what my falling out with my Pippi, my mom's grandpa, who I loved and had a great relationship with. We would go canoeing all the time together. We'd go camping. I adored him. We were at the campfire one night after canoeing and he said, your dad doesn't love you. and I was like you're out I don't ever want someone to tell me my dad like that doesn't yeah I don't I know what you're now as an adult I know what he was trying to do like your dad should be there for you if he loved you he would you deserve it like whatever he was trying to do um I just heard like well on top of you on top of him not being around you're telling me he doesn't love me yeah um fuck you right so I just wrote I wrote him out for a dad that wasn't even around But I don't think you'd have to say she doesn't love you.

1:49:43Like, I'm not trying to say that. I'm just saying it's a very delicate. It is so delicate. I need my dad to love me on planet Earth. Of course. You know, and I think she needs her mom to love her. I think that's some part of it. But it can be that she does. Yeah. She loves you. Too much, maybe. She loves you in the way she can love. Yeah. But the way she loves is unacceptable for you to grow into who you need to be. I think my approach would kind of be like, I understand if you want to continue to have a relationship with her, I would probably have one with my mom. Really? But I think you're going to have to flip the dynamic, unfortunately, which is like, you're the parent.

1:50:28She's the kid. She's incapable. You can't teach a 17-year-old to be a parent, though, to a mom. I think just mentally you have to go like, okay, I have a very injured child. I'm going to love the child, but I'm going to have to be the one in charge of the direction it goes in, in the boundaries. I think adults can do that, but I don't think a child can do that. Like, I mean, yeah, I've had, you know, I have some family stuff, too, where there are people that I can't know anymore. Right. But I still love them. Right. And I'll always love them. But I know that for the sake of everyone, like, there just can't be a relationship.

1:51:14Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what I guess I would hope to try to send to her. Like, you're always going to have love there. And she will love you. but for the sake of everyone, there can't be a relationship. But I don't know. It's so hard. Now this is unrelated, but it's related. So in my meeting on Monday night, we were discussing, someone was talking about like, potentially their issues that they have in their marriage because they're trying to get their wife to do something that they wish their mom had done. And the therapists are trying to point that out. And I was thinking about it while he was saying it.

1:51:50And I'm like, yeah, that's totally a valid explanation and likely true. But then I was like, but also the opposite is true, which is if you have the perfect mother, you think you're going to have a wife that's going to be your mother. Right. We all are so misled. We have these parents if we have good ones. Yeah. Like I think this about my daughters all the time. I'm like, you guys are delusional. If you think you're going to marry a guy who's going to do what I do, that's not what a partner can do. No. Like I'm going to love you blindly no matter if you murder people or whatever. and we all are looking for that.

1:52:22Yeah. But unfortunately, that's not what you get. And then I was even thinking, were we better off when parents were like kind of involved? Because then your expectation, at least, of your partner wasn't this thing that now all kids are mostly getting now. Like, it's just interesting. You're never going to have a mom. Like, if you're a dude, you're not going to have a partner that's your mom. I agree to some, okay. So I think the child-parent relationship is singular. There is no, you're never replicating it. Right. But I do think, I don't think you should, I don't think you should be able to map on the relationship you have.

1:53:03Also, you shouldn't want to because you shouldn't want to be a child in your partnership. Well, I think it's natural to want that because it's so nice to be spoiled and have someone do your laundry and cook your food and like care about you if you have a cut on your finger. Like, of course you'd want that, but you can't have it. You want it when it's convenient. Right, then you're like, get out of here, mom. Then you want equality when it's convenient. Like, that's the whole issue. But like, I do think though we are, we shouldn't look for that, but we should, I think maybe I'm delusional, But I feel like you should have earned grace in your partnership when you do accidentally become your most kid self.

1:53:51Yeah. That there is not really a risk. Unless this is a pattern and it keeps going and it's a huge problem. But you shouldn't be like, I can't be my base self. Here's the difference in my opinion. Of course you can be that. Yeah. But it is on you as an adult in a relationship. you have to repair that. You have to go to that person and say, I was acting terribly. I was acting terribly because of this. I'm so sorry. And it was not your fault. And you had no responsibility to fix me. You know, like you gotta, you don't have to do that as a kid. You get to be a little shit. Yeah. And then you get to be in a good mood and everyone's happy.

1:54:25You don't ever have to repair. But some people. Because you can't just be an asshole. No. And then not own it and repair it. I just, I want to be, we all, we all, do do that like we all are our worst selves around people we love selves around people we love and then also i would say that many times i think we've all also let people off the hook we've all been like they're doing this thing i hate this thing yeah but i'm deciding to not care today yeah that's them that's them that's them that's them today that's not going to be if it's them for the next year, we have a problem. But I think that to me is part of what love is.

1:55:10It's like, I see you, you're in your worst, you're being your worst self. And today I'm deciding that it's okay. Yes, absolutely. I'm just saying it's very natural for us to desire the easiest thing because that's how we are. We're all looking for unconditional love. We want more. And as much as we say partners have unconditional love, that's not true. It's not true. And it shouldn't be true. You should uphold whatever covenant you guys strike. Yeah. And you just don't have to do that with your parents. Yeah. Like it was concluded. So then we chatted about it after the meeting. I was like, it's funny.

1:55:45You know, I said, it's funny because if you had the opposite, you might still have the same thing. Like you need your wife to tell you all the time she loves you and blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And we said, yeah, the sad reality is like men, if they got to pick, they would have a mother from the time they woke up till 7 p.m. And then they would walk out the door and then this total raging horny slut would walk in who's not your mom. And then you would have that in the evening. Like if that's the id designed what they want. Well, it's the Madonna whore. Yes, like it's there for a reason. It's like, you want to be a little boy that they're so proud of all the time and showering in praise.

1:56:23And then you somehow want them to be this creature that's not your mom. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure women have a similar thing happening with their partners. I am trying to think like, what is the expectation of men? Maybe the dichotomy that a lot of women, you have to be safe, but also dangerous. Yeah, that's probably right. Mixed with, I also think like in that same vein, you need to be the protector, but also you need to be like hyper vulnerable. Yeah. And that's a hard, that's hard. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. You gotta learn which time is which. We're all. It's amazing anyone's in any relationship.

1:57:08Okay. Yeah. That was hefty. Yeah. Okay, let's do some facts. Yes. Okay. Okay. We did not want to embarrass him in front of him, but he is 57. And I was, I swear I was looking at. 40 31 years old 31 I meant yeah with gray hair that's it if you if he dyed the hair although I love the hair it looks so good god this guy effortless man he was really charming and attractive and the full package athlete we did not dive into Cornelius Vanderbilt as much as I would have loved to it's true but maybe the audience is grateful for that yeah but why is he related? Yes, he is. He is his fourth great-great-grandfather on his paternal side.

1:57:59No way. Yes, Cornelius. For people to know, Cornelius was, he was called the first tycoon. He was the first person to have a hundred million dollars in America. Child of Dutch immigrants. And he had a little sailboat and he got good at crossing the Hudson. And then he got a ferry and then he built this ferry empire and it led to railroads and he would run his ferry into the Besides other fairies, he fought the middleweight champion in the streets of New York during the parade, St. Paddy's Day parade. He was an indomitable force in American history. And that's his that's crazy. So is he related to Anderson Cooper?

1:58:36Mm hmm. Whoa. Mm hmm. Third cousins once removed. Third cousins once removed. I can't do the once removed. I don't understand that term. Yeah. Wow. That's cool. Yeah. OK. I just wonder, like, he's probably not as fascinated with Cornelius Vanderbilt as I am. Right. Well, this goes back to when you were on Skip's show. Finding My Roots. Finding My Roots, where you and Seth Meyers, according to him, could kind of care less about your ancestry, and you don't find pride in it. Right, right, right. But you are expecting Timothy to find pride in it. Yeah, that's kind of what I'm acknowledging. That's weird to me, and yet, of course, I probably would be the same way.

1:59:20Right. But I'd be delighted to know I was related to that old hickory. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. Okay, I have a huge, huge fact. Okay. And I'm embarrassed, and I have egg on my face. Okay. It's a moment of reckoning? Yes. Let me pull it up. Let me reckon. Let me atone. Georgia SAT scores being so low that we couldn't go to nationals is not true. Okay. What happened? I don't know what happened. I don't know why I know that. Why, I mean, why I thought that. Yeah. I know we were told that. Okay. Okay. What do we think could be the explanation if not that? So I asked my friend who was on my squad and she was like, yeah, that sounds kind of familiar.

2:00:16I just remember we couldn't go past state. Okay. So then I texted my coach. She should know. Yes. And let's just recap. You adore her. I adore her. Kelly, shout out. She's one of your heroes. I love her so much. Changed my life. Yeah. I said, hi, I have a fact check question. Wasn't the reason we couldn't go on past state to nationals because Georgia SAT scores were too low? Am I making that up? She said, LOL, no. Maybe I told y 'all that because I wanted y 'all to make good test scores. I can't remember. But that's definitely not true. It's because Georgia will not let you go past the state level GHSA rule.

2:01:00So still, you're not allowed to go past level, but it had nothing to do with those scores. But had the previous year you had gone to national? No, no. Just like you're never allowed. Okay. No nationals for y 'all. And I said, I've been spreading lies. Okay. I'll have to clear the air. She said, that's hilarious. I actually have no idea where you got that from because it isn't anything I told you. She said, that's the funniest thing I've ever heard. Did you talk about it on the podcast? I'm cracking up. And then she said, suddenly all the cheerleaders in Georgia start studying extra for the SAT.

2:01:31Yeah. Oops. So I have, maybe I dreamed it. Maybe, maybe. No, this is a, this is a bad faith. But maybe you were like, I fucking worked my ass off and I went to three tutors so I could get a great SAT. And I know these bitches are not studying. Maybe you had it in your head that no one was pulling their weight. No, no. Because you're not understanding. And I tried to make this clear in the episode. I'm not sure if I made it clear. I found this to be a gift. I was so happy that we weren't allowed to go past. Because you didn't want to find out. Exactly. I didn't want to find out. and find out. Yeah.

2:02:13We did the best we could possibly do. Yeah. If we had to go on to the next one, what if it's like small, you know, big fish, small. What if you finish 49? Exactly. Like, I didn't want to know that. Would you rather finish 49th or 50th? Oh, my God. It's a great question. I think I can predict for both of us and I think you could too. 50th. For me. For you. Yeah. I think, I guess I would say 49th. Yeah, one better. Because at least, it's like, well, at least We're not the worst And I'd rather like It's a better story if I go We finished dead last You want extremes Exactly If I'm not in the top three Then put me at 50th I know To me if you're not in the top one Kill me Kill me dead Kill me dead Cherry rock Oh my god Kill me cherry rock Wow So that's tough Again I admire your integrity For outing yourself It's like one of those things Like I would have written that in a book Yeah.

2:03:13That's okay. I believed it. I know. It's true. It didn't to you. What can we trust? We can't trust anything. Oh, man. Did we even win? That's why we need a little humility. All of us. I know it. We don't know what we know. No. When did the Soho House open in LA? 2010. 2010. That was a fun little thing on Soho House. Okay. Is 400... That was. Yeah. No one likes it, but everyone loves it. Yeah. Is the 400 meter a quarter of a mile? Yeah. It's 0.248 with some other numbers after that. So you were right. Great. It's just from my drag racing days. You said it was from the metric day. Metric field day.

2:03:59Yeah, metric field day where you won the obstacle course. I just know it's 1320 feet. Got it. Okay. I looked up what are the most calorically expending sports. Cycling? So running is generally considered the sport that burns the most calories. Okay. Then swimming, 600 to 800 calories per hour. Cycling, 500 to 700 calories per hour. Then we're looking at boxing, 600 to 800 calories per hour. Well, it seems like that should be above cycling then. so that's confusing okay rowing 500 to 700 hiking oh 400 to 600 basketball 500 to 700 okay i'm doing two of those that's not bad i'll live with that oh wow bowling no no no no no no how many calories an hour 12 273 i mean you do have to put like effort but what do you get by just sitting for an hour.

2:05:04If your body is burning 2 ,000 calories just to be alive. Right. Laying in bed all day. Is it? Mine's not. I'm going to ask if you laid in bed all day how many calories. You have to put in a weight. I will. I'm not afraid. How many calories would a 50-year-old man who is 6 '2 and 200 pounds burn if he laid in bed all day? Please don't lay in bed all day. You have a lot to live for. 1924 calories I would burn just by lying there. Wow. So divided by 24, that's virtually 100 calories an hour. Okay. Of just sitting. And what is bowling? 200. 200 what?

2:05:52273. So really about 173. Well, because also you are sitting a lot for bowling. Yes, entirely. And then all the, how many times, I guess, okay, okay, we can do this. Yeah, how many times are you getting up? There are 10 frames. Okay. And so you're getting up 10 times. Yeah. So that's 10 ups and downs, 10 squats. And arm movement. And then that. Heavy ball. Hold the, yeah, farmers carry five inches. Uh-huh. Throw, yeah. Yeah. If that's your primary source of cardio and calorie expenditure, your intake a lot. I think that's actually pretty good because you're only doing 10 things an hour and you're burning an extra 173 calories for just five minutes.

2:06:41Right, but we don't know that maybe tapping your foot while sitting. Anyways, we get it. Okay, soccer's on this list that wasn't on the other list. That's excruciating. Yeah, lots of movement. Okay, the average lifespan of a guinea pig five to seven years oh wow that's a lot longer than i oh really yeah i thought they were around for months oh no five to seven you're just always you only hear stories about him dying you never ever hear stories like i was playing with my guinea pig and he did the funniest thing they don't i don't know that anyone plays with them or they do anything you just hear about when they were purchased and when they die yeah well that's why his daughter didn't love it.

2:07:22Yeah. Now, what episode of Sex and the City was he in? He played Sam. It was called Valley of the 20-something Guys. And it was episode four, season one. Wow, right out of the gates. Mm-hmm. Okay. Do AIs have their own language that humans can't decipher? Mm-hmm. This is according to the source himself, AI. Oh, yeah. He said, Yes, AI systems have been observed creating their own languages to communicate with each other, though the extent to which these are truly undecipherable by humans is still debated and depends on the specific AI system and context. Projects like Jibberlink have demonstrated AIs developing unique sound-based communication protocols, while other models might be using internally generated numeric or vector-based systems that don't directly map to human language concepts.

2:08:17Oh, boy. Yeah. good luck and that's it that's it we'll end on a high note probably they're communicating who needs a billion dollars like we won't even we don't need anything we're just gonna be in our pods oh yeah we'll either we'll either be in utopia or we'll be perished yeah exactly alright love you alright love you

2:09:12Thank you.