Tom Pelphrey

23:30And then you respond to it. It feels very safe. There's nothing that's coming from them that feels like a lie or a - Yeah. Insecurity being revealed. Right. Yeah, that's so true. That's very true. When did you want to start acting? I know you went to Rutgers. I had a high school teacher that changed my life. Oh, really? Who was that? Steve Kazikoff. I auditioned for the play. I couldn't sing or dance. It's got a little chorus part. And he came in and he was genuinely scarier than the football coaches. Oh. And it was like, who's this? Who is this guy? Yeah. But he took it dead serious. Yeah. Good for him.

24:07At high school. What a gift. What a gift. And he spoke to all of us like we were paid professionals. It was incredible. I think if I hadn't had that experience, I don't know if I would have done it because what that experience gives you is an insane work ethic. If what you're doing is very important, he also drilled into us, you are a part of something greater. So even if you were the lead in the play, you didn't have to rehearse that day, you stayed and help build the sets. There wasn't a question about that. And so it builds the sense of we're all here to do something that's bigger than any one of us could do by ourselves.

24:41And you're a team and you support everybody else on the team. Lovely. It's so good. Incredible. You loved it. I heard you talking with somebody about how all in you were in that the school was eight to six. You were also in two different other theater groups. You were doing shit at night. Class until six. And then there'd be a main stage show and then you'd work on that from seven to 11. You'd either act in the show or you were running some part of the backstage to learn how to do that. And then from 11 PM to 1am we had two different black box theaters and at that time they would give us access to them so whatever we wanted to do we could and we never were not doing something from 11 to 1am so we'd write our own plays we'd direct them we'd cast them with our friends we'd hang the lights we'd make the music cues and we'd rehearse them for a month or so and then we would put on the show on a weekend that we didn't have the main stage show so we were constantly layers in of working on multiple things simultaneously and also learning how to do everything ourselves.

25:46Yeah. And never getting fatigued, just being energized by the whole thing. Ever. The things I could get away with back then when I was 20 years old. I mean, it's like wild. What school was it? Rutgers. Oh, nice. Which by the way, until today, I didn't even know Rutgers was New Jersey State University. Oh yeah. Scarlet Knights. Yeah. I guess I thought, I mean, it's got a real prestige to it. It does. Yeah, Rutgers. Does it? Well, yeah, it's not New Jersey University. It has its own name. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is pretty cool. Yeah. Pretty rare. It's very rare for a state university to have a name aside from Colorado State, right?

26:25I never thought about that. I think. I can't think of any other ones. I know, same. Yeah. I was like, oh, Rutgers must be like a private. Is Tulane? Tulane's probably private, actually. Probably. It was just there, and I should know that. Yeah, you should know that. What is that? Nicotine? Would you like some? No. Oh, okay. It was a spray if you prefer. Lozenges and spray. Did you ever smoke? Oh, like a motherfucker. And you quit? Yeah. 20 years ago? 21 years ago? I have two cigarettes at night. Good for you. That's my dream. That's your vice. Wouldn't you agree as someone who used to drink? The dream is two Jack and Dice a night.

27:01If I could do that, that would be... I know that I'm one of us because you even say that and I get a knot in my stomach. Yeah, exactly. There's like panic. because in that regard, I could never imagine. It's funny now, like in retrospect, but when I would be drinking, it used to like pain me and genuinely confuse me. Be out with somebody drinking at a bar or whatever. And somebody would like leave half their, I used to always be like, what? It was as crazy to me as someone trying to eat their food anally. Like, why did you order it? The medicine's still in there. Like what? No, exactly. What are we doing here?

27:38Is there not a purpose in what we're doing here? We're trying to get obliterated. Yes. And that's the solution. You can't leave half of it. No, that was maddening. And then having that debate in your head, like, am I going to be a scumbag and say, like, are you going to finish that? Which I ultimately always would. Sure. Oh, let's not leave this. I didn't care what the fuck they ordered. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Can't be left. I said this last night. My family and I have discovered this taco place on the street with hard shell tacos. And we like them so much. As I'm eating them, I'm panicked, you know, and I got six last night.

28:11Halfway through, I was like, not enough. I didn't get enough. And then other people ordered some and there was one person left one. And I was like, is that going to go? I go, dude, this is just like cocaine, which is I stopped doing cocaine when there's no cocaine. Yeah. Not I'll stop now. And these tacos, there would never be a taco left on the table. I don't care how many were ordered. I will have them until they're gone. Yeah. Even though they're never gone. Well, they were gone. No. You can get them again tomorrow. Literally anytime you want, you can get those. It's like addiction is a scarcity.

28:44I mean, I drink a lot. Well, frequency, I drink a lot, but I'm always leaving half. Sometimes I drink half a martini and I'm like, you know what? I want wine now and then I'll leave that. I'll drink some of the wine. For me, it's just so social. I mean, you want a little buzz, obviously. Let's be real here. Yeah, but obliteration is not the goal. That sort of gives you an insight into the mental illness of it. Because as we're saying this, I know at the time I thought you were the one who had a problem. Yeah. And I really did. I'm not trying to be funny. Why are they even doing this? Why are you doing this?

29:19Like, are you doing this for a show? Just don't drink at all. Yeah. Knock it off. You're not taking this seriously. Interesting. I kind of agree that there is something weird about that, too. Like, well, if you're just going to have a little bit, why do you need it? I get that. The rationale. I get that too. Yeah. The other thing I think you can quickly tell how people are is I'll watch a movie like Leaving Las Vegas and I go, yeah, man, that looks so good. I mean, most people, non-addicts are watching that going, that looks terrible. Scary. And I'm watching going like, yeah, man, to finally throw in the towel and just go like, I'm going all the way and I'm not going to look back.

29:58Weirdly is still appealing. I mean, I'm not going to do it, but I watch it and I can remember just finally going, I don't give a fuck. I mean, so much of the addiction, I think, at least for me, was like medicating this mountain I had on my shoulders. Like, I got to accomplish this and I got to accomplish that. And I'm like, don't become this. I'm a fucking loser. And when I would just surrender to a three-day bender, I was letting that go. Of course. I was like, we're not going to be a fucking star. We're not going to be a published author. We're not going to be a good boyfriend. We're not going to drive responsibly.

30:28We're just going to be a piece of shit and I'm going to let go of this battle. And there's a lot of relief in that. And where have you found your relief? Where do you find it now? First of all, I don't have it as much. I have children, right? You know now for three years, anything we thought that was important is a fucking joke. I know. Your movie works or doesn't or your show's good or bad. 100%. Oh, okay. Well, you know, it doesn't matter anymore, which is liberating. But even before that, years of sobriety and just having a partner and building other aspects of my life that weren't me trying to be spectacular were relief from that.

31:05Can you relate to that pressure? Of course. And I had to give that up over time in sobriety, realizing that that was just as detrimental as the drinking was truly, because it becomes like, who am I? And if this is my identity, if this is how I'm evaluating myself, then I'm always going to fall short. Be careful what game you're playing because depending on the game, there is no way to win. There is no top. And even if you get to the top, you can't stay there. You have to sustain now the top, which is even harder probably. Genuinely, I would imagine so. Just seeing how it goes sometimes where you do something and it's good and it comes out at the right time and you sort of whoosh and it goes up.

31:41You're like, that's a wild confluence of many things happening at exactly the right time coupled with we did a good enough job. And boom, it kind of takes off. you're like, there's no way to control that. You can't even replicate it. If we could, people would do it all the time. Clearly we can't. You have an industry with a bunch of people trying to figure out how to do it and they can't do it with any consistency. So it is out of your control. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And then you are powerless. And then for me, it was like, okay, well then what is the identity that I want to build my house on?

32:14Because for years it was actor, actor, actor, and then, of course, not succeeding. And even if you were succeeding, it wasn't succeeding enough. How are you anything but a failure, if that's the identity? It was just constant failure or less of a failure, more of a failure, whatever. It's insanity. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking which platform you watch that new show on. So frustrating. 15 minutes later, you've logged into seven apps, reset two passwords, and still haven't found it.

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35:17This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. So we're in March, which means it's a moment to celebrate women. And I want to take a second to acknowledge some incredible women in my life. My family, of course, and Monica, obviously, who I get to work with every day. The women on our team, the women in this industry who are constantly juggling a million things at once, they carry so much. They're managing work, relationships, family dynamics, and about a thousand invisible responsibilities that nobody sees or acknowledges. And here's what I've learned. Taking care of everyone else is exhausting. Setting boundaries, creating balance, making space for yourself.

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36:26And look, I've only gotten to the top of one mountain. And it was this one. And the second you get there, there is 10 minutes of elation. And then you go like, oh, right. There's only now one trajectory. There's only one movement left. It's down. And that is almost way scarier than the other thing, than the climbing. Yeah, yeah. Well, this is mine to lose now. Oh, fuck. Yeah. New round of, I wasn't prepared for this. I thought I was going to get here and just feel fucking carefree all the time. No, now I just know I have something to lose. And I think that's where when you can start to visualize or see these things, not as concepts, but as the real energy that drives you through your life and decide, do I want to play that?

37:09No, that's not where I want to build my house. That's not what I'm putting on the altar. So I will play that, but it won't mean identity. It won't mean who I am. It will not mean my value. I'll do it. Weirdly, then you can do it with more freedom. Yeah, exactly. It's such a mindfuck. It is. I became a million times better actor when I decided I am done identifying myself with being an actor. Yeah. I don't think telling people, I mean, we have to tell them and it's good, but you have to get there on your own. You can't sidestep it. I don't think you can hear it like, oh, okay. I just won't care.

37:47You care. It's a hard trick. It's a hard mental trick. Back to the kid things like you receive all this love. They have no clue whether you were good or bad on tasks. They don't know what HBO is. It doesn't mean anything. And you're experiencing this love because you're you and you're available and you're connected and present. That's all it takes to be worthy of love. I know. It's nuts, right? I'm a crybaby, too. Oh, yeah. I'm on a merch. I'm a crying face, too. Let's let it rip. it's so good it is the gift of getting to be a father to finally understand what unconditional love is both ways like here we go yeah but there's nothing she could ever do where i wouldn't love her with all of my being yeah and there's no accomplishment that would make you love her more amen brother and i also know like you said the feeling when i walk into the room she is excited to see me.

38:50She does not give a fuck about anything I did or not do. He just wants you to be there. He's here. He's here. Presence. That's it. Man, what a beautiful gift. Yeah. I don't have kids, so I wish people would be able to have that without it. I mean, that's the goal, right? The kids are the reason you're able to feel it, but we should all be feeling like that. Our presence is enough to be loved and worthy. I do too, but there is a certain reality of the marketplace of friendship and partnership, right? It's like people shop in their echelon. Jocks are friends with jocks. Burnouts are friends with burnouts.

39:27Like, so to deny that all this stuff is real is also not true. It's like status is a real thing. People are attracted to people who other people are attracted to. All these things are real, but the real relationships, the ones with your family, the ones with my childhood friend, he doesn't like me more now that I've gotten successful. Right. Maybe less. Because I'm, you know, I'm distracted. But those ones are the ones you kind of got to foster or have. Because the other place is a bit of a marketplace. Does that make sense what I'm saying? I see what you mean, but I guess I'm saying more in the general sense, not like love from a specific person.

40:02It's like, I'm someone worthy of love walking around, not to get someone's approval, but just like walking around on earth. Like, yeah, I'm a person. So I'm worthy of this. Yes. And you are. Kids give you that. Yeah. But we all should have that. It's hard though. We all have it inherently and I think we forget it and I think we don't show it to each other. Especially nowadays. It's the worst timing for that, I feel like. Well, it's interesting because what I experienced with Matilda, my daughter, makes me, and maybe this is the way my brain works, but you probably think it too. I immediately start applying it out.

40:37I start thinking like, that's someone's daughter. Exactly. That's someone's son. Once you know that and then you see the ripples, you're like, well, if this is me and her, then how sacred this is applies to everyone everywhere all the time. I love that. I don't think everyone's doing that. I mean, maybe they are. I need tricks. Look, I don't start with great intentions and I don't start with love and kindness and benevolence. So I have tricks like that's one like, yeah, someone's kid. A kid's being annoying. You see it all the time. Kids are on other kids. And then you just go like, I know what the dad feels like.

41:12That's the most special little girl in the world. I know. She's picking her nose. She shit her pants and she just hit someone. And if that's my daughter, I'm like, fuck yeah, girl. You know, my other hack is this is so indulgent, but arm cherries are the nicest fucking human beings. Monica kind of constantly do this. People listen to the show are just across the board. The nicest fucking people. We've met so many of them that if I'm in traffic and I'm getting mad, I have to go like, I imagine that's an arm cherry. And I just completely immediately dropped the whole thing. But I need tricks, unfortunately.

41:44It's not my nature to be like, yeah, this guy's got good intentions. Let's give him a shot. Not my nature either, brother. That's the thing. We have to work on all this, like left to your own just natural devices. It doesn't usually turn out the most beneficial for all involved. Yeah, we're trying to get ours and protect ourselves and all those things. But you're trying to not do that. That's just the only thing we can do is try not to. And then you can, if you're like, you know what? I want to try to see this in a better light. Then you can. Yeah. Well, the part of the miracle is even being aware of what you're doing in the first place.

42:17Goes back to that Eckhart Tolle book, reading that and him saying that over half the battle is won the second you're aware that there's even something happening, that there's even something to change, that there's even something you don't like, that there's even something you're battling. because at least I can relate. When I was drinking and stuff, I could make jokes about, oh, I'm an alcoholic. I didn't understand until I understood. And once I understood, it changed. I didn't really understand until I understood. And that sounds silly. It even sounded silly to me three weeks sober looking back being like, how is this a revelation to you?

42:55This is so obvious. I'm dying to know if we have the same experience. So my understanding is what you probably drank through college and it was fun. you're successful yeah then you got on the soap and you got two daytime emmys that was two years out of college right out of college where were we at ego wise i have two different thoughts one would be like if i was 20 i was making money fucking doing this and you were nominating me i would be on fire but also i wasn't a thespian from high school who went to college and i don't know if you had some like i need to be doing broadway i'm not sure what was that part like I did have that.

43:27I had the, I want to be doing Broadway and blah, blah, blah. But I also thought that I was fantastic and I was being shown all the evidence of how great I was and that the world would be rolling out the red carpet. When I left the soap, the great shock to my ego, leaving the soap and everyone didn't have a red carpet rolled out for me. 80 scripts lined up being offered to you. Didn't bring a pallet over of offers. Not only did I not have 80 scripts being offered, but the things I was desperately trying to get, I couldn't even get. Do you remember what actor you wanted to be at that moment? Who was your idol?

44:01At that point, Sean Penn. Yeah. I mean, Jack Nicholson's always been my favorite. He'll always be my favorite. He's a Jersey boy. Grew up 15 minutes from where I grew up. I mean, he's the guy. Talk about a dude who knows himself. Oh, man. More than any other actor, I think I always watch him with a bit of a smile on my face. Like, it just makes me happy to watch him do almost anything. Clinton and Green Moore. No, at that time though, it would have been Sean Penn. Like Sean Penn in college, that was like actor's actor. Wanted to know everything about Sean Penn. Look at Sean Penn in Mystic River and then watch Milk.

44:35Even some of the best actors, there's like an essence. And that essence to me permeates what they do almost regardless of what they're doing. Even if they do two things that are equally amazing and genius, there's a similarity in essence. Sean Penn doing Mystic River and then Sean Penn in Milk. I'm like, that's not the same human being. Where's the vibration that like, even if I close my eyes and my ears, somehow I can feel Daniel Day-Lewis is in the room. You can kind of feel that about Sean Penn too. And then he does something that's like a bit of a sweet and low down. You're like, wow. He like changed his own rhythm.

45:13Yeah. Can I tell you something? You have that. Whoa. You really have that. When I was watching Task, I was like, that's that guy? Like, it was shocking. Such a transformation. You've hit the mark you were going for. Okay, so you wanted to be Sean Penn, but you're getting all this love. It has to be related. It coincides as well. That ends right when your dad dies, too. These have to be a kind of a confluence of... Yeah, it was actually wild timing. And this is why sometimes real stories are stranger than fiction in the sense of come off the soap and just really crash into the brick wall. The drinking was always kind of out of control, but I always had structure.

45:48I realized looking back, I'd had structure straight through high school, college, college, only a few months off into the soap. Now the soap, I never missed a day. I was never unprepared regardless of how insane I was. So the soap was amazing structure. It's five days a week. It's like the hardest job in acting, right? It's labor intensive for sure. You're doing like 20 pages a day or 30 pages a day. For the audience, you're doing four pages a day on a normal show. The soap itself is filming 60 pages a day or 50 because commercial break. So you're doing an hour of television every single day. It's crazy.

46:23Every single day. I love it. It's impossible. It's insane. Unless the light fell on your head, you're getting one take. You know what I mean? There's just literally not enough time. Even if they have a different angle on someone else, maybe they'll keep the tape where you got it in the head. Yeah, well, and they can because they have three cameras, at least back then, proscenium style, three cameras, and they're live editing in the booth. So out of the corner of your eye, you could see if camera one, the red light comes on, you know, now it's on you and all that kind of stuff. I feel like this is incredible training in so many ways.

46:51It's amazing. I'd never been in front of a camera before. The technical aspect of the job, which is hard to pick up if you've only done theater and stuff. Also just memorizing fucking dialogue, right? You're doing 20 pages a day or something? Total muscle because when I first got there, it took me two weeks to learn 10 pages. And by the end, just as like a bet, we would do these character episodes where our character would be in the entire episode. So again, 55 pages, whatever. When it got time to be mine, they were like, do you want to do it in one day? I said, yes. And I did. Yeah. And I knew what I was doing, but that's a crazy muscle, but you can exercise it.

47:24It is wild though, isn't it? How much your brain will adapt and morph into where you need it to be strong. It's shocking. Okay, so all that's going on. So all that's going on. So I get out of the soap. The red carpet isn't rolled out. It's also suddenly the structure gets pulled, which at the time I wasn't thinking like, oh, I've had structure. Now I'm going into no structure. Completely unprepared for no structure. This is why all the retired athletes get depressed. They've had this structure for their whole life. Totally. So everything goes off the rails. Devastated, depression. This sounds so self-indulgent, but it's just the truth.

47:58This is how I felt. And then about a year of that, and then my dad dies, that really rocked me. I hadn't known anyone who had died that was close to me who wasn't very, very old before my dad. And again, it was a surprise, and he's my father. And that sadness, I realized like, oh, what was I being sad about before? Right. You almost felt shame. Shame, but also it just like shocked me into like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, there's real things, you know? Oh my gosh. But that experience was wild and something that no one had talked about before, or at least I hadn't paid attention to or read about or anything.

48:42But my dad died. There was grief, but there was just also like this terrible fear. I just felt like I was on the edge of the abyss. Like it brought my own mortality, everything rushing at me in a way. It was also this realization that unfortunately, probably too many people have this realization much younger than I was, but that nothing is guaranteed. And whatever you think is there for sure that makes you feel safe, it's not. Like the anvil of impermanence hit you. Yes. I was not in any place mentally, spiritually, physically to grapple with or to understand or to have a practice around. And it really rocked me.

49:23What year did you get sober? October 1st, 2013. It was six years later, give or take. What was your trajectory? It was like a slow burn. I hadn't worked in over a year. I was in a considerable amount of debt, broke, worried about not being able to pay my rent, all the things. The last thing I was hanging my hat on ego-wise was a relationship I had with a woman who was very successful and beautiful. Yeah, yeah. Like, well, she chose me. I buoyed myself quite a bit that way, too. That's what we're doing before we know how to do anything else is just like, where is my value? There, there, because those are all falling away now.

50:04But that ended. And then I just remember being in my apartment in Brooklyn at the time and just being so crushed, felt so worthless. And you know, at that time, I didn't realize what it was until later, but I can articulate it now, just like the constant level of this fear, anxiety, shame, guilt. It's like a buzzing constant. How do you boil the frog slowly? That buzzing builds slowly over time. You don't realize how deafening it had become until you're freed of it, hopefully freed of it. So you're just in this constant state of this anxiety, almost paralysis, fear. It's this shrunken. And you think that's normal.

50:39absolutely that's part of the problem again to the awareness of it like you just think that's normal because that's the way you've been slowly living more and more and more like out of the blue in my apartment in brooklyn still to this day don't fully understand this into my brain read the power of now where'd that come from huh yeah i was like okay i knew i had to do it i'm gonna do that but i don't know where that came from weird very strange and thank god Yeah, this is before your phone could have heard you. True, no algorithm. Yeah, yeah. And I didn't even have a smartphone back then. The universe smartphone.

51:16Yeah. So I go get the book. I literally read the first four pages and no exaggeration, I throw the book across the room. Rage. Why? Well, I didn't know exactly why, but I went online, is Eckhart Tolle insane? And of course, he's like the one person you can't find any evidence. Right. I've been being insane. My buddy, Rhett, I called him. I got his voicemail. I said, Joe bro, do you know anything about this motherfucking Eckhart Tolle? Like, is he supposed to be insane? And for a week, I wouldn't touch that. I never left that zone. I read the first four pages of that book and I go, Oh, it's another guy claiming to have another other worldly experience that I'll never have.

51:57And now he's going to share the truth with me that only he received from the heavens. It's fucking religion. It's the same old fucking thing. And fuck this guy. And I never went back. and I never called a friend. Oh, yes. But now you can. Isn't he sitting on a bench somewhere and he has this huge revelry? Baby, I'm going to bring you a copy of the book. I'm like, oh, this guy's a prophet. And another guy who receives some metaphysical signal. Can I tell you something? What? You do that here all the time. Tell me. You're not on a bench. You're not saying it came to you via the clouds. But you are on here talking about your experience and lessons you've learned through your experience that not everyone else has had.

52:38Right, true. That we hope people will hear and take and live by. Great point. My delineation is his was otherworldly. You're right. You're dead right. And this dumb little distinction I'm making is his was otherworldly. But to some people, yours is otherworldly. They're like, I don't know what that's like. I don't know what those experiences are like. Very fair criticism, Monica. I'm just saying. It is a really interesting take. We do it. No, I know. I know. Well, for me, okay. You got there. As crazy as I was and am, after a week, I was like, bro, you're going to throw a book across the room.

53:18You need to read that book. I literally threw it, by the way. So I was like, why is that making you so angry? Well, this is what I realized later. But then I started reading the book again and I realized very quickly what triggered me was everything he said was the truth. And that meant everything I was doing was wrong. And I don't like that. I still don't like that, but it was painful. It was just too much. Why did I throw the book? Because the higher me knew in that moment that reading that book meant my life would change forever. And I didn't want it. And it was going to be uncomfortable and you're going have to grow.

54:01Yeah, because I think on some level, we all understand that being fully, truly exposed to the truth, things are going to change. And that sickness in us, that thing in me, as miserable as I was, is like, uh-uh, we don't want to change things like this. I think how terrifying it is to change needs to be given more prominence to understand why it is difficult for people to do. I think that gets downplayed on a level because I like to talk in big language sometimes because I think these things are big and the feelings with them are big. And if we use small language, we kind of downplay it. But I think when we change, when we make a big change, especially you die and you are reborn because the you, the me that was drinking on that day did die.

54:51It's terrifying. Yeah. The terror is, well, then who am I? Exactly. The terror was, what am I going to do on Thanksgiving? What am I going to do on Christmas? How am I ever going to go on a date again? What is a vacation? What is a celebration? How am I going to last longer than one minute in the sack if I don't have three beers in me? I'll never fuck again, I guess. Bro, I never thought I'd do anything again. How am I going to watch football? Are any of my friends going to want to hang out with me? What am I going to do with my friends if they do hang out with me? It's your whole life at that point.

55:24Everything. Because it has permeated. It has got its tentacles in every single thing. How am I going to go see a play without a flask in my pocket? All the things. How am I going to grieve? How am I going to mourn? How am I going to celebrate? Celebrate was huge for me. That was more of a trigger than almost anything. I'd get a job when I was sober. What do I do? I go, I'm going to eat two pizzas. That became my, like, we're going to get fucked up, but it's going to be on pizza. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember going on vacation with my girlfriend, first year of sobriety. It had been going well. It was the first time I made it past three months and I was like coming up on a year or maybe I had a year.

55:57And we showed up in Mexico and I was like, oh, no, I have not taken a vacation in 12 years. Wow. Where step one isn't drop your bag in the room, go get a drink and then everything unfolds. Yep. Drop my bag and do what? Yeah. I won't go home, I think. Yeah, why am I paying for this? What did you do? I sat at the pool and stared at people so fucking judgmental. I'm like looking at this one guy and he's just a slob and unkempt. And I was like, this motherfucker can control his drinking and I can't. This guy can drink by the pool. I hated this guy. I just white knuckled it. The hotel fucking Diet Coke was 12 bucks.

56:36But when we got into the room, they had given us like a fifth of tequila that they brewed there. I'm like, of course, the fifth's fucking free and a Diet Coke's 12. I was just like, I was going to explode. I couldn't get off that vacation quick enough. Now I love vacation. Boy, it took a minute. No, I can relate to that. So you read Power Now. By the way, my father was obsessed with Power Now. That might be in the mix too for me. Okay, okay. Yeah, he wore for the last 12 years of his life, he had a little charm on his gold necklace that was now the clock, the now clock. Yeah. He was obsessed with it.

57:04Wow. But you read that, how does that lead to then sobriety? I read that over the course of like a month and a half, I would go down to McGorlick Park in Brooklyn every evening. I wasn't working at the time. I had plenty of time on my head, It was me and my dog, so we had plenty of time. Go down when the sun was setting and just read part of the book, kind of watch the sun through the trees and sit and breathe. And it wasn't exactly meditating because I didn't know how, but just kind of being there and feeling the stillness. And then this dawning awareness of like, oh, this feels really good. Everything he's saying is true.

57:38Every part of my body is responding to what he's saying in a way that's like beyond my intellect. Doing yoga on these days, eating better. then have plans. I don't even want to go, go drink three days. I can't even touch the book. I don't go to the park. I don't do yoga. I don't eat well. Over the course of a month and a half, again, so much of his book is about awareness, being present so you can be aware. The awareness is dawning like, whoa, what happens when I drink is very shocking. It's like vibrating out beyond the drinking itself. It's really like kind of damaging everything. And now I can see it.

58:18And then I was walking in an audition one day in the city and it felt like I got struck in the head with a lightning bolt. And again, this sounds comedic. I guess it is comedic, but just, oh, I have a drinking problem. Even though you had been saying to all your friends, you're drunk. These are strange truths that we might only be able to understand. And how did you know to go to a meeting? My experience with that was a little bit different as well. It took me a long time, really. I mean, I went to a meeting early on, but it took me a long time to really understand even what the meetings were.

58:50With Eckhart, and he was using teachings from the Bible of Jesus, had a relationship with Jesus, what he was, what I felt like he was when I was a kid that had gone away. And so my sobriety was really in that. The obsession was relieved instantly. it was a god thing it was a spiritual thing it was a jesus thing and then i went to meetings and i was I was confused. I didn't know if I was supposed to be there. I felt really guilty because I heard people really struggling in the beginning. And I was a mess. And I had a ton of work to do and I'm still doing it. Like I'm not saying that. But I never wanted to drink again ever after that.

59:33It was just like, boom. Were you into drugs as well or just drink? Take it or leave it. If it was there, I would do it. If it wasn't, I didn't care for the most part. So for me, it was God first. And then eventually program was like, oh, I literally didn't understand what it was at first. I thought it was only for people who were scared they were going to drink. And then I'm like, well, then I'm not supposed to go. You know, eventually I met some guys that were like, we're not thinking we're going to drink. And I was like, what are you doing? And they're like, we're crazy. And I was like, oh, I'm fucking crazy too.

1:00:06Non-crazy people don't go this route. I know. And then I got to see how beautiful it was. I actually think that entire program is perfect. It feels like divinely inspired. Those steps, I can't think of a better, more perfect expression of living a spiritual life, like keeping yourself good and strong and useful. And it's so beautiful. Do you have a favorite step or couple? It was also interesting finally going and really understanding what the steps were. I didn't have a sponsor and work the steps until I was seven or eight years sober, but I understood them long before then, but was noticing just through my own experience, looking back on the steps, being like, wow, I did a lot of those things, not thoroughly, not perfectly, but spontaneously, even without the program, just after a month or two of sobriety, just thinking and being like, I need to call this person and say, I'm really sorry.

1:01:02That wasn't the best version of me. I let you down. I can't imagine how difficult that was. And kind of naturally just wanting to do that, which to me is the greatest testimony to what the steps are that I could give, which is like, there is something so deeply real about that process. Those steps are just an articulation of something that is deeper. Like it's coming from a deeper place and we're just going to name what it is and like how to do it. I think all of the steps rests upon the steps that come before. Obviously the first one is that lightning bolt moment I had, but then for me, two and three were the most important ones I ever did.

1:01:40And they're kind of joined. That makes sense. Given your ease and comfort with religion or Jesus, it explains to like, that's hard for me. Yeah. Yeah. So it makes sense that, that, that part of Eckhart's story, didn't bother you. And that was the thing I got hung up on. If anything ever took me out of the program, it was the higher power stuff. Hard for me. Yeah. What is two and three? Came to believe in a power greater than ourselves, turned our life and our will over to that power. Came to believe that we could be restored to sanity by a power greater than ourselves, right? Yes. Got it. Here's the thing, man.

1:02:12What you're saying right now, I understand completely and fully. I totally get it. And like that always breaks my heart. Yeah. Because as a kid, that feeling that I have that I'm describing. I hated church. It was very confusing for me, even as a young person to like try and separate out the religion from what I felt like I was experiencing and or reading again, voracious reader. I love to read my Bible too. I didn't even grow up in a very religious household. I just liked it. So hearing you say that, and I understand there's a million reasons why, and I've heard so many people say that I totally get it.

1:02:42And then you wish like having sponsees of these, whatever. Like you want someone to have a kid and experience it. You just want it because you're like, it made it easier. That's all. And then like trying to help other people and they don't even want to say any of those words. And I get it. And I don't need to, we don't need to talk like that. We just talk however we want to talk. But then you're like, boy, I wish I could give you even a taste of it, even if we called it something else, because it will help you. Yes, yes, yes. Now, mind you, I do the things, right? Like every morning I do my first three steps.

1:03:11I do the prayers and I do the 10th step. I do them all because they cost me nothing. And I'd rather do this thing than die drinking in the morning. You know, so it's like, it's very easy for me to cooperate. But for me, the four step is the thing I think that changed my life entirely. That to me, if there was a single step that they should teach in fucking elementary, it's this notion of making a list of all the people that you have resentments against. Why do you have resentments against them? What are they threatening because in your mind, you don't see any pattern. But if you have to write out your four step and you look at that column, that third column, and you go, oh my God, all of my issues in life are being driven by three of my fears.

1:03:53It's not like I have 50 fears. It's like, I hate Margaret and I hated my teacher. I hated my stepdad. It all threatens one of the same three things. Like my whole life is being governed by three things I'm afraid of. So I can either try to control 7 billion people to act in accordance to not trigger those three fears, or I can get to work on those three fears and be relieved of all this. That's absolutely proprietary, novel, crazy, special. Yeah. I don't know that there was many times in life I was more terrified than when I went to do my fifth step. So the fourth step is what Dax just explained.

1:04:27The fifth step is sharing it with another human being before God that says shaking like a leaf. What a vulnerable place to put oneself. Yeah. Getting to the part where I acknowledge all this stuff was my issue was hard. Then telling someone about it wasn't terribly hard for me. But I know and I've received many dudes' fifth steps and I've seen the anxiety coming in. And I know the experience, which is, oh, this person's not walking out of the room in horror over who I am. What a gift. I get the gift of it big time. Yeah. I'm not intrinsically flawed and terrible and unlovable. I'm just a dude who did all the same shit all of us other dudes did that got here.

1:05:12Yeah, that's incredible. But you have to say it in order to feel it. So saying it for the first time, that's horrifying. Yeah. Have you seen the drama, the new movie? No. Okay. I'm obsessed with it. Zendaya, Robert Pattinson. Oh, okay. Yeah. I think best not to know anything about it when you see it, but a secret is revealed, basically. the whole movie spirals based on that secret. And I just think about it all the time. Like, God, yeah. Are there things that people just shouldn't ever know about you? Because we here say the opposite. It's like, just share it. People will say you're not that bad or I'm like you or whatever.

1:05:45But then I was like, oh no, maybe there are some things that shouldn't be shared. I don't know. It's confusing. Well, I think you want to choose carefully who you're sharing what with. That's for sure. I mean, the fifth step isn't like an indiscriminate, like, let me just grab a guy off the street. It's hopefully at that point, the person who you trust the most, the person who's guided you to even get to that place. So it's a very kind of sacred, special, specific place. Yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

1:06:26I think the problem is often, and this is what you see with the tension in our country, is like we have this technology, which is I can see the kid in Wisconsin post a video that is totally fine in his town and should be fine in his town. And the dude in Miami who's making this joke, it's good there. Yeah. But it's being seen by people from other cultures and other populations and other places. And there isn't some unifying. So, no, in a program like this. Yeah. There is no secret you shouldn't share because they've been through it. We speak the same language. And that's not to say that it's for everyone.

1:07:05And it's not to say that everything has to be for everyone. It's cool to find your group and have that trust among you. And it doesn't necessarily have to extend everybody. A hundred percent. You can see even in the course of this conversation, the amount of seemingly weird things that either I or Dax have said, but we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If I'm telling my mother-in-law, like, no, I used to say I was a drunk. And then I had this one moment. I was like, oh, joke's on me. You really are. I don't get it. You knew, but you didn't know. But if you've walked that. No, you can 100 percent know and not know.

1:07:37You can feel it in your body when you say it. A hundred percent. Yeah. I'm imagining that plays into your upward trajectory professionally. Yes. It was almost immediate. October 1st, 2013, that happens. The next three days, craziest detox. And I was a binge drinker. So I'd gone days without drinking before. Suddenly it was different. The thing was different out of my body three nights, every night. Whoa. Yeah, yeah. The amount of water that was on Jersey water. The amount of water that was on that bed. I'd wake up always perfectly in the middle of the night. Sasha's sleeping next to me and my dog.

1:08:16Soak him wet. Nightmares. Lucid dream. I didn't even know if I was sleeping or not. You get that thing in your stomach where it like. Oh, yeah. Where you're falling and then you're not falling. Like, I don't think my abs can activate that way other than detox. And also, what is it? So everywhere. Yeah. Wake up in the middle of the night. I'd put the blanket back on top so Sasha could go on that side. I'd get on the other side, soak the other side of the bed to wake up in the morning. I'm not even sure if I ever even slept because the dreaming. Anyway, three days. That Friday, have an audition.

1:08:46Starts the process of an audition, which I end up booking a pilot, where they had like five male leads and they read me for four of the male leads. And I didn't book any of them, but I booked the fifth one. Oh, weird. The one I hadn't read is the one. And it seemed like they just wanted me to be there, which was awesome. It was wild. I mean, the confirmation. And this is not why we do it. And I'm not saying this is going to happen for everybody. And this is just the way it worked out for me. And maybe that's what I needed at that time. But within two or three weeks, all of a sudden I'd gone from not working in a year and a half to booking a pilot.

1:09:21Well, here's where I can touch higher power. As much as I have a hard time with it, I also weirdly believe you're not given things you can't handle yet. so to me that's a product of that yeah it's like your god knew i couldn't give him this role a week ago he had fucked the whole thing up dax i live by that i believe that's true some people aren't that lucky they do get put in those positions no charlie sheen on you know yeah i think that all the time i watched that documentary about him and i just saw it just seemed like he's like oh let me try acting and then a year later he's like one of the biggest movies i'm like Platoon.

1:09:58It's a curse. For someone like me and you watching that, I'm sure you felt the same. I watched it, I was like, oh no. Yes, exactly. That's horrible. It is. It's a curse, really. Yeah. It is. Platoon and then Wall Street or whatever. They just kept coming, you know, like, oh, he's dead. Oh, man. Yeah, yeah. Good luck. I used to think with the, like, Marlon Brando of it all, I just wonder if it's just so easy for you to do, if you understand it so intrinsically without any effort, then you're robbed of the appreciation of the discipline it took you to be good at it. Like if a basketball player could just walk on the floor and wherever they were, throw the ball up and it goes in the net, that basketball player is never going to train a day in their life.

1:10:34And they're not going to have respect for the game because they can do a thing that no one else can do. And they're like, why is this a thing to be proud of? Yeah, I think you see that with a lot of artists. They feel fraudulent because they didn't necessarily work as hard as someone else next to them did. And I think that does fuck people up. I think that's why a lot of comedians go into dramas, because for Jim Carrey to be Jim Carrey is easy. as much as that's crazy yeah he knows how to do that which is wild and i think he felt some guilt like i'm the highest paid actor in the world for eight years in a row in this thing i can just fucking do it you could wake me up in the middle of the night and say be funny right now i could do it no problem no prep i mean i don't know i have no idea why yeah yeah but there is this insatiable desire for a lot of comedians work to me it seems like it comes very natural to them that they gotta go fucking grind to demonstrate that they deserve it right it's all a mental fuck like great if it's easy for you let it be easy for you i know but it's hard because sometimes it's the struggle that gives the meaning context or gives you the context to find the meaning great so i'm dangerously close to fucking you over for your next thing but i just need to know this is on task i thought this was really interesting so you did a interview magazine with my hero gary oldman yes yes so rad but in that interview you guys were talking and you said that Ruffalo is super playful and silly and goofy on set to the degree that you finally had to ask him.

1:11:59Yeah. I'm always so curious. I get to work with so many talented people and I always want to learn from them. And you always can. Somebody will always share and there'll always be something you can take away and try and get better. But like with Mark, I was like, wow. And this is an actor who I've admired for years and years and years. And also I've started in theater. So I know Mark's a theater actor in New York. So all these ways in which I really look up to him and then see him on set. And he's so generous. He's so kind and sweet and goofy. He's like a kid. He's playing and he's joking. He's just so silly and he's sweet.

1:12:32And so I was like, man, because I can't be that way. Not when I'm doing something like tasks. I kind of want to just live in the energy of what we need to be doing. Like somewhere. It's not that literal. I'm not like method or anything. It's just like, let me live in that energy. But Mark, it didn't matter. And then he would do the scenes and they're amazing. So I was like, what is going on? I said, have you always been this way? And he goes, no, no, I used to be more like you.

1:12:58They're like, what do you mean? He's like, well, I used to be more intense. He's like, cause you're focusing. I was like, yeah, I don't know how to not focus. And that doesn't even come from any like, this is how I do it. It comes from like, I'm being paid to do a job and it's my responsibility to make sure I do my job for you. And so I know what I need to do to make sure I could do my job for you. That's all it is. But Mark was like, I've been doing this for so long. He's like, at a certain point, if it wasn't going to be fun, I can't keep doing it. Apologies, Mr. Ruffalo, if I'm paraphrasing you wrong.

1:13:27But basically it needs to be fun. It needs to be enjoyable for me or it's unsustainable. And it was also a relief because I'm definitely less held than I was 10 years ago. So to hear Mark say, no, I used to be like you. And then to see where he's at now is like, okay, okay. Maybe this is just maturation. Maybe this is just years under your belt. Maybe this is just experience. And eventually you go looser and looser and looser, wear it like a, what, like a loose fitting garment. Yeah. So it's like, okay, well then there's something to work towards this constant knowing that you've done the work that you need to do in a way that you can just be easy, be easy, be easy.

1:14:04I think you can only get that with so much practice. You can just walk in and be like, I just got it. Yeah. You learn that over time. You learn it over time and you build trust in yourself. And I definitely trust all those things a lot more, like I said, than I did 10 years ago. I need two hours with you because I got to say the other thing. Okay, so I'm seeing you act and I'm like, this dude, there is a tenderness to you that is so attractive and appealing. It's just so beautiful. I mean, within five seconds of meeting your character, I'm like, yeah, I want to help this dude figure out whatever he's figuring out.

1:14:36He's like a good boy. Complex character. Yeah, like your heart was just so exposed in it. Third thing was, this guy's fucking body's awesome. I then did 10 minutes. He's obsessed with male bodies. I did 10 minutes to my wife on the body. I go, okay, so this guy. You? Bro, look at you. I want to give you the ultimate compliment because this is what I thought. I'm like, this guy's real. And this real dude doesn't go to the gym for an hour a day, but he has this body and I go he's one of these dudes I knew in junior high that was just like for no reason genetically it was just fucking jacked and you have those kids in your schools like you're in gym class everyone's getting undressed yeah like what does this guy lift all day long it's just natural six-pack and fucking pecs and I'm like that's what this guy is he's just one of these fucking stallions I love you brother I'm not I'm not yeah you know it always is a little distracting to me sometimes when bodies are a little too perfect where you're like this guy's doing this life and you look like you're but you're slinging trash cans i mean we know he's active and also growing up in jersey we're very similar to the boys from philly and pennsylvania like we all lifted way almost everybody lived everyone's got a bench in their garage i had a bench in my garage since i was 12 years old and guess what if you don't have a bench in your garage you're doing push-ups you're doing pull-ups which is really what i did for robbie because it's like he's gonna just bang him out when he can't pop some push-ups while he's on lunch or prison you know you just kind of can't get away from a normal person workout exactly get up against the couch and some dips he doesn't have a personal trainer no you know he should look like he had a personal trainer tom i'm so glad we got to meet i know this was great i can't pour enough praise on you on task this happens to me like once every five years i can name the people you know it's just like, I don't know the person.

1:16:27And I'm just like, what? What is this? What? Yeah. It's so fun when that happens. It happens once in a while. For me, the last couple of years, I say you and Timmy Chalamet are just like, what? Wow. Well, I'm in good company there. I'll take it. I give up to Goggins. Goggins has blown my fucking mind too. Goggins is awesome. Oh, he's a monster. Also that little boy in the new Game of Thrones show. Well, you just love him. How good is that show? I love him so much. It's so good. Do you watch it? I'm only two episodes in, but I love it. It gets better and better and better. It really does. It's so good.

1:16:59But delightful to finally meet you. I hope you get all the love and awards that you so rightly deserve for Task. What are you working on now? I'm about to go to New York, do a movie with Apple, this really cool, like action sci-fi. Very different vibe from Task. I have one last question. I would be regretful I didn't ask when you left. we're both in a similar situation which is we have partners who are way more famous than us yeah oh yeah i'm good with it and it seems you are too i love it first of all so badass so impressive what she's been able to do it's like girl go get them it's so awesome and secondly i would not want that yeah truly like i'm so grateful if i get to keep being an actor get to keep making enough money get to keep having access to good scripts and just fly like right under that radar.

1:17:49Oh, I'd be thrilled. That is a serious thing that they both experience, like getting to see it up close. Kaylee is kind of like naturally magnanimous. She can live that fully 24 seven in a way without it being a strain because it's not a lie. It's just part of who she is. Whereas, like I said before, like I need to retreat to regroup and all that stuff. And I don't think that would be good. Are you getting now because of the nature of this, that when you're speaking, sometimes somebody whips their head because your voice is what's doing it too? The funnest one I had was being at my daughter's school.

1:18:24I had like a kickoff for the new year and then a little field day and there's a hamburger cart thing. And I stepped up to get my hamburger and I said, oh, could I get it without a bun to this like 14 year old girl? And she goes, yeah. And I go, OK, thanks. And she goes, wait, you're not on Armchair Anonymous, are you? Like never seen me, never seen anything I've been in. Like I don't know I'm an actor. But yeah, 14 year old kids. That's our Friday show that's a little different that a lot of kids like. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I thought she was just misnaming this show. No, no, it was real. It's like listeners tell crazy stories.

1:18:55And so she somehow as a 14 year old girl at this school loves that show. And that one the most tripped me. I was like, oh, that's so rad. This like young girl doesn't even know I'm an actor or anything like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was great. Well, you're a delight, and I really do hope we can double date or something. Yeah, brother. I would love that. Yeah, you're a good boy. I can tell. But you used to be a bad boy, so that's my favorite kind of boy. Oh, my God. All right. Good luck with everything. Love you, girl. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here.

1:19:29She's got to let him have the facts. Hello. Hello. Were you at an event? I went to an event last night. Well, let's see. You have makeup on today. Oh, I am. Yeah. And I'm going to one after our recording. So I had to put a little bit of makeup. You're bookending all this with events. I know. And I am. And I I'm also dying. Like, I don't. Something's wrong with me. I just made a doctor's appointment. I like bit the bullet. I was like, I got it. I what's going on? Why are these lingering for so long? They shouldn't be lingering for everyone. Just make you feel safe. Like, again, I had it for three and a half weeks.

1:20:12But me too. And then it went away and then it came back and then it went away again. And then it came back. It's like, it's just in me. Like I. It's dancing. It's. I know. And I hate. I like. I didn't used to care about antibiotics. But now that I live in L.A. It's like. And I'm like afraid of them. I'm on antibiotics. You are? In my eyeball. Oh, no. It doesn't. Yeah, I have a horrible stye. Oh, no. Did you put a hot compress? I did. I'm doing hot. And I, everyone's telling me to do. Sorry. It's just so funny when you, there's certain things, right? You say it and then every, it's like almost like when someone falls, you say, are you okay?

1:20:48Oh, I have a thing, hot compress. You know, there's a few, there's a handful of things. Yeah. And I'm being heavily monitored. I mean, I live with three ladies. Sorry. Oh, no, no, no. I'm not mad at you. I didn't mean to be up your butt. Oh, no, no. I'm not mad at you. I'm laughing at the frequency. I get it. Everyone would naturally want to just help me. Everyone wants to make you feel better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's a way to help. It's just funny. Each girl that walks through the room, have you done a hot cop? Yeah. It's really funny. They want you to do a hot cop. And then you said it right away.

1:21:16And I was like, this is cracked me up. It'll go on its own. Don't worry. Without that? No, no. See, this is why you need all these women around. Yeah. If it was just all men, they'd be like, throw a rock at it. No. It makes me feel better that you're on antibiotics. Like, yeah, maybe I just carpet bomb this system. Let's get rid of it. It's like it's in there and it keeps coming back. It's like clear. It's just kind of dormant and like ready to pop. It is a nice though. It's like a nice way to get a dose of gratitude and go like, oh, this is what people would like chronic pain. Like, you know, just sometimes to experience like, oh, yeah.

1:21:54If you don't feel well for weeks on end, it's really it really permeates everything you're doing and thinking about. But yeah, I started feeling it again. I love relearning the same lessons just over and over again. But, you know, I was in Nashville, slept like a little baby to the point where I didn't even wake up to pee like five of the nights. And I was like, this is crazy. I thought I always have to wake up for pee, for pee pee. And then virtually the second I got home and we had this crazy week, my sleep just went to shit. And I was drinking a ton of caffeine in Nashville. I'm on vacay. And I was like, oh, yeah, it's all stress.

1:22:36And then, yeah, a stye. And Kristen gets styes before she goes to work. Do you ever get them? I've never had one. They're so stress related. It's crazy. Like, it's shocking how immediate and direct it is to stress. What's your stress thing? Will you get a rash or anal warts? Well, I know I just always have those. Oh, you always say, okay. Yeah, whether I'm stressed or not. I don't think I present physically with stress symptoms. Like sometimes when I, you know, I'll think like, oh, with my face, like if I'm like breaking out or something, like, oh, maybe it's stress. But I don't think it is. You don't think it is?

1:23:16Yeah. I just think it's just like I get like anxious and depressed. Yeah. But I don't think I get physical symptoms. But like even I'm saying this as a rational person. even walk me through the mechanism of how being stressed is going to give me a small infection on the inside of my eyelid. Like it doesn't even I don't even understand how it could make sense. Other than it's just over and over again. I see this as a result of something. Body keeps the score, they say. Body. OK, I can't do it. We need Ricky Glassman. Oh, BKTS. BKTS. I'm pretty good. Sounds like K-pop band. Not as good as Ricky.

1:23:55Okay, so I've been having real for the first time ever FOMO about Coachella, which I've never had. But I keep watching this clip of Bieber and I like wish I was there so bad. Wow. And then I'm so stupid. I didn't know it's two weekends in a row. You learned a lot yesterday. We had a guest on Easter Egg who performed at Coachella and will be performing again next weekend. And I didn't want to ask that guest if Bieber is going to perform again. Does he perform again? It's supposed to be the same line. It's the same thing? It's supposed to be, but I mean, I don't know. Do you know the moment I'm talking about?

1:24:35He's like, I think it's towards the end. He's down. He's like, there's a camera and they start playing. It sounds like a little bit of a remix of one of his old songs, but it's from, you know, he did this mashup of his YouTube stuff. And they play it, right? Yeah, he's like singing along to little him. Right, right. I'm presuming there was some visual component to it as well. Yeah. He's playing again the second weekend. Oh. Yeah, I think it's the same. Yeah, and the strokes are right before him. Is it Saturday night? Saturday night. He plays at 11.25 p.m. Oh, perfect. Because I was just thinking Molly's birthday party.

1:25:10I can't go. But now you might go. I have some calls to make. Like, I want to find out if someone fancy, like, is zipping in last minute that I can tag along with. I mean. I might call in a lot of favors for this. I do think this one, it's, like, back. Like, Coachella feels like it, like, kind of was eh for a minute. I shouldn't say that. I don't care about Coachella, so I'm only, like, on the periphery. Yeah, yeah. But I think. Do you have the thoughts I had that I expressed yesterday, which is, like, when I'm seeing the photos from people at Coachella, I'm like, I don't have the outfits for Coachella.

1:25:40Like, everyone's looking like. They have a vibe. And even our guest said wardrobe. Something was a phrase about taking pictures of your wardrobe. Oh, she just said like outfit pics. But there's another word. I don't want to get bogged down at what I do or don't know. I guess you're proving the point I'm trying to make anyways, which is like I do look at those pictures and I'm like, I don't know if I have any business being there. A lot of people are in like bikini, like very high fashion bikinis. You just don't have to wear that. A bikini? Go, you do what you want to do, but you can still see the music if you want.

1:26:15I'm not a music. Consumer. No, what's it called? Music festival goer. Yeah. That's not for me. Too many people, right? So many people. Crowds. And then I'm like, I can't see. People are taller than me. It's dusty. Although I did have that incredible experience at Bonnaroo when we were sent there to promote Hit and Run. Oh. Because it's just rolling grassy green fields. And it was just like ideal weather. Green, no dust. That's nice. Really spread out. So you didn't feel very crowded, even though presumably there are a bazillion people there. There's one in Napa that I might go to because I like Napa.

1:26:56Yeah, Bottle Rock. That's where Molly goes. Molly loves it. And Erica goes sometimes with Molly. You should go to that with them. Yeah, because then I just won't go to the music and I'll just go shopping. No, no. You go there and drink wine and stroll around and stuff. And just whatever way the crowd's moving, you just move the other way. I think I'd rather just go to Napa a different time. Okay. Yeah. You know? Speaking of Napa, I keep reading, you know, the wine industry is like collapsed. I know. Well, it's collapsing. Yeah. Yeah. I shouldn't say past tense, but it's in a real rough state. I know.

1:27:29I need to. I like, I got to get there. I got to help out. I'm not doing my part. What's surprising to you is that you might want to attend one of these auctions and buy a winery as a distressed asset because they're auctioning off these wineries that were worth go billions of dollars. They've also just been trashing tons of yields. Right. It's really depressing. I know because it's so beautiful. But then the pig in me is like, should I try to buy a big chunk of land in a fire sale? In Napa? Yes. Because I want to stay there. Do you want to go? Yeah. Okay. Of course. Just pull our money and buy an armchair winery.

1:28:08Oh my God. Armchair. And we have notes of cherry in there. Notes of cherry. Listen, that is Sim that you brought that up because I went to an auction last night. Was that your event that you? Yes, that was the event. I went to Friend of the Pod. Beautiful, lovely, wonderful Friend of the Pod and Friend of Life. lake bell oh how was that hosting it it was so fun it was so cool so it was for red the charity red remember okay red used to be like all the rage sure it was every we were talking about this like millennials knew about the charity red it's like maybe the only charity we knew about the branding collabs with brands you could only get this product in red yes my nano was red my ipad nano know yeah it was genius anyway and they did a lot like they've done a lot of really great work but unfortunately and that's why i shouldn't be making fun of aids all the time on here it's like it's like on its way back what yeah but good we have all this treatment for it i know but well globally it's on its way back yeah and but here but yeah there's treatments but that's kind of why it's like people aren't like as concerned but then there's a vaccine oh there is now Yes.

1:29:30For HIV? Yes. By the way, that brings up measles. There's like 200 kids now have passed from fucking measles. Fuck, they've died? Yes. Ugh. Totally preventable. I know. It drives me nuts. Yeah. So that's sort of their new - What do you think there's side effects for the measles vax? Go find me 200 people that have died from the measles vax over the last 25 years. You can't do it. I know. Exactly. So, but yeah, there's holdups for the vaccine right now, but it's like that. So that's kind of their - Bush. That's our push is like, we can end this. It's not like we can slow it down or like treat symptoms.

1:30:06Like, no, it can be done. Yes. So, which is very, very cool. But anyway, so I went to this auction and it was really cool because, so I guess Lake has been doing this for like 20 years and her mom started it and she does it at like different charities, four different charities. And it's called Auction for Nothing. Okay. And the way it was presented to me was like last. Oh my God. I'm so sorry. I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. What if when you're at the doctor, you read just symptoms. What are your symptoms? I keep dropping a piece of metal on my computer at work. It's weird.

1:30:42I just like have no motor control. Maybe I don't have any motor control. Oh my God. And I can't talk either. But is it falling off your finger or you're doodling with it? I'm playing with it. Oh, okay. Okay. All right. So it's kind of like measles. It is avoidable. It's a tiny bit big. OK, so it was it was presented as like, you know, you you bring some like kind of like non item item and people auction for it. It's super fun. Like she said, someone brought like a fake hundred dollar bill from their purse. Someone brought a plane ticket to somewhere like old, you know, kind of nothing items and just like a fun way to raise money.

1:31:21OK, so people are bidding on shit that's junk. Yeah. Yeah. But like funky and fun. Hopefully it's a bit of a bit. Yeah. So I was like, what should I bring? What should I bring? So I was like, oh, I know. I have a key card in my wallet from the Four Seasons Beverly Hills. It's an 11-11 key card that I stayed in on my birthday. As we know, it's lucky. And I was like, this is a sacrifice. But it doesn't say 11-11 on it. It does. It does? Yeah, because it's in its sleeve. Oh, okay. So it says it. It was written with a pen? Yeah. And I was like, I felt like, wow, I'm sacrificing something that's important to me, but whatever.

1:32:10So you get there, you write your item on this card, and you put your estimated value. and I said estimated value$1 ,111. And anyway, put it in, great. It starts and actually, who do you think? Who do you think? Who do you think made the first bid? You? Yeah. Did you get it back? It was me. No, it wasn't for that. So she picks out of the hat, reads them all. So the first one was Naomi Scott, actually. okay and it was um she said she would curate for you you give her a year and she would curate like all the magazines of a of a magazine brand oh god i took d i don't know but um and for that year and i was like oh they collect all 12 issues yeah exactly exactly like off ebay or something okay okay and i was like oh that's kind of fun i like magazines i bid first yeah okay got this at auction going and then she threw you know she was like i mean it's really like it's fun for the ads and then i remembered got milk oh sure and i was like oh shit i can i can like request get some of these old got milks and so then i you know i kept bidding and bidding and i won oh great how How much you spend on that?

1:33:41400. Okay, great. Okay. Great start to the night. And I was like, oh, I participated. I'm done. You know? No, you're not done. You're just getting started. Yeah. You were just getting started. I do not think I should go to auctions anymore. Oh, you got competitive. Yes. Okay. Because boots, there were boots from a, from a boot brand from a fancy brand. Okay. So there is real ones too. Okay. see this is where things got tricky because then things started to get very like real and then i was like oh no how many people are at this function and is it in a living room or like a big space it was it wasn't at a huge space was that an intimate space rented and in like hollywood cool space okay yeah i started to panic because i was like people are doing real things and I put in a key card.

1:34:35Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. You're starting to panic. Yep. And I was like, what do I do? Now I look like an idiot. Yeah. And no one's gonna, and I also want, then I got competitive on the other end. Like I want people to want my item. Of course. So she starts to read it, you know? And I was like, oh my God. And I said, you know what? I'm gonna throw in one night stay. You interrupted. Yep. Okay. Well, she read it and I was like, And and I'm going to throw in one night stay at the hotel. That felt like a really good pairing. You know, I can't guarantee it'll be room 1111. But yeah, yeah, yeah. And it went for eleven hundred dollars.

1:35:12OK, yeah. Which is probably what it will kind of cost me to buy that room. So, you know, yeah, yeah. Push. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was really fun. Yeah, that does sound fun. I want to share that I'm delighted about this because I finally kind of can truly relate. You keep hearing this term parasocial relationship and certainly intellectually I understand what it means and what the definition is. Yeah. But I don't know that I've ever been able to relate to it. Okay. But I am finding myself in a crazy parasocial relationship. Yet I also know the person. So this is very. Yes. These are the trickier ones.

1:35:49Yes. So it's Sedaris. So like, you know, we've had him on. Yeah. I've gone for a walk with him. Yeah. We've had him on many times. Yes, I get occasional postcards from them and I've sent one or two. And so I have access to them. But it started with us listening, as I've said before, listening with the girls at night to Sedaris audiobooks. Yeah. But now it's become that's what I listened to before bed, period. I don't listen to anything else anymore. And I haven't for months. And I'm re-listening to the same books over and over again. And I already know the stories and I love them just as much.

1:36:26And it's like every eighth word he chooses, I get a ping of joy. And I'm so now immersed in his life. I think it's the whole parasocial part. The reason it's possible is it's not fictitious. Right. So everything he's writing about is Hugh and his sisters and his dad. Exactly. Now, you know, you know, everything about him, you think. Yes. I'm like, I'm so upset. I can't be at breakfast with he and Amy or out shopping with them. Or he has this friend who he goes on these weird day trips to different countries when he's in France with. And I'm like, I want so bad to be spending all of his time with him and hearing him compute the world.

1:37:11That is what it is. And his breakdown, I was just re-listening to his breakdown of COVID and being in New York City and the BLM thing. and just the way he's so perfectly skewers kind of everybody, but also participates. But I have a question, okay? Do you, so you want to be with him? I want to spend a lot of time with him. I know, but. And I want to somehow be creative with him too. That's not really parasocial. Parasocial is like you feel like you're like, I know him. Yeah, I feel way closer to him than he could possibly feel to me. Yeah. and you're like oh my god like Amy would definitely do something like that I just think I would fit in perfectly with those two in my mind of course do you think like you know their personality if someone out in the world did something you'd be like that sounds like my buddy Amy I mean I'm thinking about him many many times throughout the day every day for months welcome to the club it's pretty fun actually I love it And it's frustrating.

1:38:20I can also understand, like, when I hear people will say they have a parasocial relationship with you, it's like, yeah, I really feel it now. I understand that. And it's frustrating. Yes. Because, like, I love him. You know, like, I just love how his brain works. And I want to, like, be able to real-time experience life with him. Yeah. He's so great. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

1:38:58But you can see why in the podcast space, why it's extra, right? Yeah. Like this conversation we're having is so normal. We're not choosing. I mean, we are. We're making choices ultimately as to what people hear and don't hear. but like we're just talking off the cuff me and you we have no plan yeah yeah and so if someone's listening to that of course it tricks their brain like they're here with us and it's real time yeah yeah they know us they know what we think they can predict what you or i will respond yeah and like it's complicated i understand how genuine it is it's very genuine oh my god it's not like Like sometimes I think sometimes you you kind of frame it as like it's scary.

1:39:42Well, it can be not to me. Well, I know how I feel about David. There's nothing he could be. He should be scared of. OK, you are talking about you very specifically. But parasocial relationships can get very slippery and scary. I mean, hello, Beth Stead was 100 percent that that show is about parasocial relationships. That's fair. And that is, and like what you're owed, what you're owed by the people you know. You're in a different position. But also, yeah, I don't think Sideris owes me anything. I think I owe him something. The hours of joy this man has given me is like crazy. I paid$13 for the book.

1:40:20It's kind of fucking bonkers. But like, okay, I currently am in a parasocial relationship right now with Aaron and Sarah Foster. Oh, okay. I started listening to their podcast and I, I, I, I listen. Part of it. Yes. Is when you're listening, like I listen at night and like, so they're in your head before you're going to bed. And like, they're just in your, again, with podcasting specifically, they're in your world when you're doing like your intimate things. Yeah. Yeah. And so, but like, you know, my best friend works with them every day. Two of my best friends work with them every day. Yeah. Like it's this weird, it's kind of this weird, they're close enough.

1:41:01Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like I was listening to an old episode and I was like, Ana, can you ask Aaron? Oh boy. Can you ask Aaron about this doctor thing she was talking about? Because I think I need to go to the doctor and I kind of am interested in trying this. And she talked about it on the pod. Can you ask her? Ana thinks this is all so weird and funny, right? Right. Yeah. Because Anna works sits next to her all day long. And she thinks it's weird when people have it with me. Well, I'll tell you what I have to do. And I guess now we're really we're in a zone that we could guide each other, which is I have to fight the urge.

1:41:40And I have successfully fought the urge to send him a voice memo almost every day to tell him how much I like this story. Or I like how he said this thing or like and I just know better. Right. I just know that even if he loves me to death. Yeah. He can only really absorb so much of that thing. Exactly. And I am sure he feels like there is the literary him and there's the him. Yes. So that's why that's different. I mean, it's stories about him, but they're crafted. They're they're they're perfect. Yeah. They're not us doing this like where then they walk down. we walked down the street and someone says something about Tonka and it's like, oh fuck.

1:42:24Yeah. I forgot. I said that he's not forgetting what he put in his books. It's on purpose. But I think he, you could send him a nice note. It takes all my restraint. Well, look, I've read what I know I need to do. And what's insane. Cause I'm obsessed is I know they need to send him more postcards. Right. But I'm not making the time to do that. And, and he gave this great speech. It's in one of his books. He gave a speech to one of some college and he was basically telling them like, you know write a letter to your grandmother write a letter to like that was only his only advice for these graduates basically he's like take the time to sit down and write so that your grandma can be sitting there and reading this thing and holding it it's not a fucking text message and blah blah that's nice and so i heard that and i'm like i'm i can't even if i'm if i if i want to honor him i already know what he thinks is disposable right anyways it's all so crazy to have all these feelings about him because I actually, you know, it's okay.

1:43:23This isn't, and I don't mean for him, but there can be a don't meet your heroes. I mean, meet your heroes, but don't get so close in parasocial relationships. Right. So, because like, you know, I'm like, well, I like, I'm like friends with, I'm like friends with Aaron and Sarah. I'm like, we're friends. Sure, sure, sure. And, and then I do laugh at myself because I take a step and I'm like, well, I'm like, We actually for real could be friends. We have like so many people in common. I could meet them. But I was like, oh, no, that would ruin it. It would change. OK, ruin is maybe not. Yeah, I don't know if that's the right word.

1:44:05OK, because I will. I experienced this with Elizabeth and Andy. I had a whole parasocial relationship with them for so long. OK. And now we're all very, very good friends. And I still love their podcast so much. I listen immediately. But it's not the same listening experience. You don't have the yearning to connect to it. You have the connection. So it's like the yearning has been taken away. Yeah. And I like, and then, yeah, I will text and it's normal. Just like my friends text about our show. That doesn't feel parasocial. That just feels like. Yeah. So I wonder if the move is for me to protect this very special feeling I have every single night for an hour.

1:44:45Yeah. I guess we never get to. And reserve that. But I've been having these feelings lately. And it's not that I'm looking for inspiration. I just find the thought of this inspiring, which is like we interviewed a journalist yesterday. who's like so impressive yes and his mind is so wonderfully curious and i've been having these thoughts lately of like i would like to figure put more time into figuring out how to collaborate collaborate collaborate collaborate with people whether it's writing or it's something i just i just am like intrigued by the notion of um i haven't written with a human being since the groundlings you know yeah but i used to love that it's like you and also you're forced in there so there was 15 of us in the company and if i had my druthers me and josh nathan would have written together every day because we had the exact same sense of humor but you write with everybody yeah and so you're kind of forced to bring these radically different perspectives and you sit in your apartment your one-bedroom apartment until you come up with a three-page sketch and often you came up with really great stuff because you had to oh yeah and it was a really joyous experience that I long for.

1:45:55Yeah. I think you can find that. I also think you could, I don't know when I'm doing this, but it can be something you want to do and try to do, but also I think it's okay to admire from afar or not even afar, but like, just like, I love what that person does. I can let that be something I consume and I don't have to be like connected to it or a part of it or a part of them. Let's work through that. That's, I mean, I'm on the surface. I'm, I agree with you, but I'm curious, like, I guess it's just natural. If you enjoy something, you want to be close to it. Of course. Yeah. Of course. It's also because I think you actually, you're in a weird position where you have the ability to.

1:46:43If I put a lot of energy into it. You could do it for so long. I wanted these collaborations with people and, you know, it's like, oh, if only I could work with this person or this person. And I couldn't. Like there was no way to do that. Yeah. And then do and then not able to. I don't know. I think there is something freeing to just like that person's that person's just great. I don't know. The dangerous part could be I want to somehow work with them and I want to produce something with them. And I guess I want them to see me as worthy of that. Yes, of course. I certainly know I have zero money motives.

1:47:31So that's good. I can take that off the table. It's not like I'm like, oh, we could have a bestseller. I don't have them thinking like that. But you're worthy. I guess that's sort of how I like I think that's like you don't need anointment you don't need somebody else to say like you know what I want you. That's the thing like when you love someone from afar you do you hope they would love you. You do but I think you can get to a place where it doesn't really matter like if you find out they like you it's like oh my god that's so flattering but like. I'm there with other actors. Yeah. For sure.

1:48:04Yeah. Like certainly I'm flattered by that whole Fassbender story if it even happened. Yeah, that's so cool. But also that Fassbender story would have in the past sent me into another sphere. And then I'm like, I have fear how to work with this guy. When that's just because he likes me doesn't mean he and I are going to be in a movie together or whatever. So that stuff has all gotten very neutralized in my life. Like, yes, I can just like someone. And if they like me, that's great. But I don't I'm not off to the races with all these fantasies. But of course, more and more. And I think maybe I was reminded by this journalist.

1:48:34We were reminiscing about self-submitting stories to journals and publishers and just how demoralizing that is. You have your little envelopes and your postcards you send with it so they can respond to you. And so I do think because that was my initial thing I wanted to always do. I have a reverie for writers. Yes. In a way that is probably reminiscent of like when I first started acting, I had this crazy reverie for actors. and then all the way around to your point, like maybe just keep in cherish that you don't need to infiltrate that and then neutralize that too. Maybe just stay a fan. You can stay a fan.

1:49:16Maybe it's like confidence or, which I know you have, but it's weird. I guess. Too much of. Well, you have a lot. Intermittent confidence. And then you have none. Like it's weird. Yeah, yeah. I guess we all have that pendulum, but I, oh. You just reminded me of something. Okay. But Greg, Greg, Greg. or something I've been meaning to bring up for three or four weeks. Okay. I feel like if someone comes up and tells us, someone I really respect, obviously, comes up and says they love the podcast or whatever, I'm flattered. Yeah, yeah. But I'm not doing this for that at all, which is maybe newish for me in the past 10 years of it.

1:50:02I don't feel like I need that approval from people I wanted respect from. To confirm for yourself whether it's good or bad. I think it's good. I'm proud of it. Yeah. And I don't like what other people say, good or bad, doesn't have much of an impact. Right. Because I feel very convicted in my feelings about this. Yeah. So I guess that's sort of what I would hope. I feel as a human being. Yeah. That you just like don't need that who we had the other day to like work with them so that you're like and I so I worked with them like they made. So I must be good. Right. It's like, well. yeah I just want to live inside of one of his stories as much as I can and I feel like by being with him since the stories are about reality somehow I'd be able to live in one of those stories okay the thing you just reminded me of because it was confidence and domains and we were talking about things identity markers that are important to me and the one I said that was troubling you as it should be was I said fighting and then I didn't it's always irked me since then that I didn't explain why and I have figured out how to articulate why okay and this is not a boohoo i i would hate for you to think that this is a boohoo story but i think if you grow up um with an older brother that's significantly older than you and you guys fight a lot you have great fear of that violence and then you have some stepdads that are like really really violent and and you're scared a lot yeah of that and then you go to junior high and you date an eighth grader.

1:51:44Now all the eighth graders want to kick your ass and just like older dudes wanting to kick your ass. And then just floating through Aaron's neighborhood and the amount of violence, like the amount of time in my early life that I was so terrified of men and of violence to come to a place through fighting where I don't have any of that fear. I walk in the street, any guy I see, I not, I have no fear. I'm not saying I can beat every guy up. But I'm saying I have no fear. I've conquered that fear. And the fear was so all-consuming and so frequent that it is like a total shackles I broke out of through finally forcing myself to stand up, fight back, do the thing and overcoming it.

1:52:27So if there's been any one of these identity markers that has given me the most relief, funny enough, it's way more than driving fast right it's way more than all these other goofy ones i have yeah but it's the one that liberated me from this feeling i hated which was fear yeah that makes sense yeah i'm being scared that makes total sense i think i meant more like and clearly fighting is just bad and it's not a way to define yourself so i get all that but for me i wanted you to understand why that's an important one for me it's like yeah yeah i i i think i i think i know that about i don't think you like it because it makes you scary like i or i'm trying like i want to beat somebody right i don't think that but i guess for me when i look at the big picture i'm like the reason you were put in the position in the first place to be scared is because somebody else is violent because of somebody else who made them it's like to me it's this like horrible cycle that makes kids afraid and then they have to build that you know defense mechanism and it's like I would just want the whole thing to stop for sure and when you watch the Jack Reacher video of the guy pushing him off his motorcycle and him being the guy up like it's just all obvious violence and all of it's bad and all I'm seeing is oh yeah that guy tried to make Jack Reacher terrified and tried to hurt him and Jack was like fuck this Yeah.

1:53:59By the way, I like defend yourself. I'm not I don't think he did the wrong thing there. I'm just like, oh, like I hate all this. I hate that guy who sucks. He hate violence. And that guy who came out is violent, too. Like, I guess that's my like he started with violence. It was reciprocated with violence. This whole thing is just like I just wish that wasn't like the case, you know. um but i mean it's also reality so whatever but that's where i'm coming from when i say like i just wish that cycle would stop but you know i agree it's a terrible reality of life on planet earth so i'd rather be someone that wasn't a victim of it yeah that makes sense yeah and it's like when women take self-defense classes it's not because they like want to run in the street and start kicking everyone they want to not feel afraid yes exactly so i do i 100 i get that And if and Cecilina, the Brazilian, like if she tells me something I love about myself is I'm indomitable.

1:55:01Yeah, I love that. I do, too. Yeah, I do, too. Yeah. I guess just the whole thing makes me sad. It's like, yeah, it's it makes me sad that you have to do that because there are people in the world who rate people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that makes you have to do this thing, you know, whatever. But anyway, it makes total sense to me that that would be it. And my algorithm, unfortunately, confirms my worldview that this is still essential. See, that's what's so funny. I don't have that. You don't have it right. So like I see so many videos of like just a random Joe at a bar doing nothing and some asshole.

1:55:35You know, I see so many of those videos. So for me, I'm also misled probably about the frequency rate. Yeah. OK, you want to do some facts? Yeah, let's do some facts. Facts are fun. Oh, I really love Tom. Yeah. Yeah. He delivered. Okay. So state universities that don't have the words like state or university in them. Because remember, he went to Rutgers and we were like, oh, that's weird. It doesn't say university. So is it private or public? But technically Rutgers is Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey. Yeah, I read that. That's how I knew it was the State University of New Jersey. Right.

1:56:16But I, again, still it's weird that it's Rutgers. State University of. Yeah. It's not Bellingham University of Georgia. Right. That's true. That's true. That's true. That's true. You know, it's not like McHashen, North Carolina State University. Yeah, you're right. But I'm not finding a lot of others. Yeah. It's all like College of New Jersey, College of Charleston, SUNY. Well, what's Duke? Duke is private. It's private. Okay. And Tulane is private. I had brought that up, but that's private too. Only private. Very private. Very, very, very, very private. Okay, I looked up what's happening when you're detoxing, when you have the stomach jolts.

1:57:04Because he said, what is that? The body's reacting to the sudden removal of substance it is adapted to, causing gastrointestinal distress muscle spasms from electrolyte shifts or intense nerve adjustments it's often a sign of toxins leaving the body resulting in yeah cramps gas diarrhea muscle spasms i will say we talked about it in the episode the the two most humbling moments in alcohol addiction which i've talked to many people is that moment for me in the kitchen i was like oh it's not a joke and and i can't I'm never going to quit yeah um that moment but when you have violent DTs you're like could this really be happening so okay I feel stressed about not stress but saying that because it's good because people need to have expectations but I'm like I'm nervous that that's enough to have people just never stop like sometimes I think that I'm like oh my god if I stop like will I you have stopped you've quit for a month here and there i know but like what if i had that and then i can't handle it and then i'm i just don't want to see if it happens no you you're not you're not even i don't think you're anywhere close to having dts scared well anyway don't let the dts stop you um they're really like those were the facts there were really no facts i mean there were those facts yeah that i just gave i'm not surprised i doubt you were either to find out that he had had a very high status girlfriend.

1:58:35I'm not surprised. I obviously wanted to know who it was, but you know what? I respected his privacy and I didn't look it up. Yeah, this guy's a killer. He's so sexy. He's so nice. He's so sweet. He's just so sweet and engaged. Yeah. Like he seems like a very nice boy. Sometimes you're around someone and you're like, oh yeah, they have like the X Factor kind of attractiveness. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he was lovely. Good pair. Good pair with the really. Yes, dynamite. okay love you love you