Arsecast Extra Episode 654 - 18.08.2025

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1:15Hello and welcome to another Arsecast Extra. As always, we're James from Gunner Block James for what I hope is the first of many this year. Goodly morning to you. Goodly morning, Andrew, and everyone listening. beautiful way to start the season in terms of points for sure oh mate points result great I have a feeling that this game is kind of a podcaster's dream because you get to gloat you get the result you wanted but you also got a lot to get your teeth into yeah there is this I mean I understand it the performance versus result conversation that I think we're going to have to have and will have, obviously.

2:01But I have to say, you know, there might be elements of it which are, you know, verging on, I don't want to say negative or what have you, but I think we have to focus first and foremost on the fact that we've gone to Old Trafford on the opening day of the season and come away with three points. I know that we've talked a bit about the start of the season and the schedule and the fixture list and what have you. But, you know, I'll be completely upfront about this. When I saw the fixture list, when it first came out, I sort of did a little bit of sick in my mouth at the fact that Old Trafford was our first away game or our first game of the season.

2:40Old Trafford away was our first game of the season. It's a horrible place for Arsenal to go, generally speaking. It really isn't enjoyable. I don't know what it is. Is there something weird about the stadium, the history, whatever it is? You know, we struggle there and have struggled there so often. So I was kind of, you know, hopeful, obviously. I think I sent you a text when the teams came out going, oh, this is a pretty beatable United side. But there's something about that place. I don't know what it is. So to come away with three points, despite the fact we didn't play well, you know, I'm far more focused on that than the actual performance itself.

3:22because, you know, I've seen us go there and play better and come away with a lot less. That's true. That's true. Although I haven't seen us play well there too many times, to be honest. We did really well there in the end of last season. The first half we played there was unbelievable. I can't remember us ever going there and being that dominant. And obviously then we fell behind to that free kick when the wall, remember when they made us put the wall 30 yards away from the ball for the free kick for Bruno Fernandes. And we did play actually really, really well that day. But again, we came away with a draw rather than three points.

3:58Yeah, I think it's something like three wins from the last 18 league games, something like that at Old Trafford. So when they come along, you've got to enjoy them. And I think if this result had been achieved in April or May, probably the narrative around it would be very different. You know, you'd be hearing people say things like, at that stage of the season, the results, all that matters. and, you know, it's a sign of the mark of champions to play so poorly. But I think it's kind of inevitable, isn't it, that this early in the season, everyone's kind of looking for fluidity, progress, a sign of change.

4:41And, you know, a team that looks like they're just going to blow everyone away. We didn't really get that. But it was interesting seeing Mikel Arteta afterwards. and I felt that he was like, listen, we can park all the analysis. We got the three points and that is so precious to us. You know, it's only the first weekend, but I think even psychologically losing a bit of ground on City and Liverpool, I think would have been painful, would have been an issue, would have just sort of, you know, not given us the perfect start. Whereas as it is, three points, a home game coming up next week, chance to build a bit of momentum.

5:22Absolutely fantastic. And listen, there's nothing more enjoyable than a slightly scraggy win against Manchester United. I mean, we won an FA Cup like that in 2005, was it? And I thoroughly enjoyed it. So I will take it all day long. Me too. I think I said in the blog, I don't really care how we win once we win. And if you'd offered me like a grind it, slightly under par performance, but we come out of it with a win, I would have bitten your hand off for that. You know, for me yesterday, I know everyone's interested in performance. I know everyone's interested in seeing the team gel and click and play with, as you say, fluidity, a bit of rhythm, find our attacking mojo, if you like.

6:11But I really did feel going into this game, it was about dealing with not just the opposition, but the stadium, the destination, the record that we have there. It is a really weird quirk of football, whatever way you want to put it, that we've had, I think, six wins there in the Premier League era. All six wins have been 1-0. That is odd. Like, I don't know what the odds on that would be if you're, you know, to put that through a betting machine or whatever way you would put it. I think there is just something fundamentally difficult for us at Old Trafford. So for me, it was really all about, did we have what it takes to get the result?

7:01And I think one of the big strengths of this Arsenal team over the last couple of seasons has been a defensive solidity, which was absolutely necessary and required yesterday. Because it didn't really work from an attacking perspective. But once we got that goal, we, you know, we have that experience. I think maybe Gary Neville on Sky said there probably isn't a better team at sort of protecting a lead and grinding a win out than Arsenal over the last couple of years. And much as I hate to agree with Gary Neville, I think he's absolutely right in that sense. So, yeah, we're going to talk about performance.

7:37But for me, I'm absolutely chuffed to go there. Get that game out of the way. This is one of the most difficult games of the season that we have got out of the way. We've got three points. and then, you know, as you say, we look ahead to the weekend, a home game against a promoted side where you would look for things to be a little more the way we expect Arsenal to be. Yeah, more cohesive maybe. I mean, we're looking, aren't we, to make up points on last season and we've just made up two. You know, we've just added an extra two points that we dropped. So, fantastic. And we will talk about the performance kind of holistically, But I do think, and I've been guilty of it myself, saying it's a poor performance.

8:20I do think that that omits certain aspects of the performance and maybe certain areas that we have come to take for granted. You know, you mentioned what Gary Neville said, but the defensive performance from the two centre-halves, for example, was excellent, I thought, on the day. David Ryer in goal made some outstanding contributions. Obviously, two really eye-catching saves, one in each half from either of United's new forwards, but also just a couple of claims on corners that alleviated pressure in a way that certainly the goalkeeper at the other end of the pitch wasn't able to do. So I think there were aspects of what we did, the commitment we showed, the physicality at times, the organisation, the grit to see out that clean sheet.

9:10we have come to a point where we do take that a little bit for granted that we have become that team and what a far cry that is from Arsenal teams of the past so while I accept totally there's a lot to get into particularly in sort of the attacking phase and and discuss you know how we failed to sort of capitalize on some of the opportunities we had but there were good things in here they're just familiar good things but we shouldn't allow that to make us forget them Yeah, of course. I think people think sometimes the only measure of playing well is attacking well. And I get that. That's what you want to see.

9:47You want your team to create chances. But defending and goalkeeping, doing that well is really, really important. And those sections of the team can play well. Like one center half hasn't played a competitive game since April. And it was amazing. I thought Saliba in the second half was unbelievable. the winning goal comes from one of the fullbacks so yeah I think there were aspects of this game that that you know if we were not a good defensive team we would not have won that game yesterday you know there would have been a breakthrough for United because I do think you know if we're going to be honest about it they looked more dangerous than we did I don't think they looked like they were going to bang the door down until they found a way through, but they were dangerous and they did create moments that we had to react to and defend well.

10:42And David Rye, as you said, made a couple of good saves. The one from Cunha in the first half, I think, is unbelievable saves. So, yeah, we have to give credit to those guys for helping us dig out that performance. So, shall we start with the team, I guess? Not a huge surprise that Victor Jokoros started up front. And maybe the other decision that Arteta had to make was whether he was going to play Calafiore or Myles Lewis-Skelly. And I do think on the basis of what we've seen in preseason, I was not at all surprised to see Calafiore start at left back. The midfield trio of Zubamendi, Rice and Odegaard.

11:22When I looked at the two teams on paper, I thought, hey, they're going to have a great time today because I saw a United team with Casemiro, with Bruno Fernandes. It wasn't the strongest looking Manchester United midfield that I've ever seen. And I really thought that if we were going to get a grip on the game and dominate the game the way, I guess, Mikel Arteta would have wanted, it was going to be in that midfield area, but it didn't quite work out like that. No, incredible. May 2004, Jamie Carragher told Casemiro to leave the football before the football leaves you. And yet he's still starting games for Manchester United.

12:03I mean, that is kind of flabbergasting. He's been so poor over such a protracted period. So like you, I was looking at that midfield and thinking we could dominate there. As for left-back in the Arsenal team, I think there's something really interesting happening with Calafuri. I mean, Mikhail Arteta was eulogising about him again after the game, about his aura, his presence, you know, the attributes he brings. Every time he's been fit and available in pre-season, he has started. Whether it be at centre-half, whether it be at left-back, I think Mikhail Arteta is kind of doubling down on this player.

12:43And after a patchy first season, interrupted by several injuries, I think he's really determined to try and integrate him and bed him in and give him a proper role in the side. And I think he was rewarded yesterday. I think Calafiore was, you know, on a day where I don't think the overall performance had that kind of fluidity or was particularly technically clean or good. I thought he stood out a little bit, actually, as one of the positive contributors. Yeah, he is a difference maker. You know, I know there are going to be some questions about, you know, aspects of his game defensively, I think.

13:19You know, the yellow card he picked up towards the end of the first half. That's an issue. I don't think it's unique to him, by the way, because I think we've seen that happen to Myles Lewis-Gelley as well, where a smart player gets away from you on the turn, you make a foul and you pick up a yellow card. Did Myles get booked yesterday? He did get booked yesterday. I've got a question about that for part two. So we'll save that for part two. But he did get a booking. but I think you know it is a function or maybe a consequence of the way we ask our left backs to play that there is a high risk reward element in terms of their positioning and therefore there are going to be moments when the opposition can turn away from them and you know it's either a foul and a yellow card or we leave ourselves a bit exposed defensively but I think you know with Calafuri there is this sort of dynamism to his game which I think is is really interesting When you look at the opening stages of the game, United were, I'm going to say, on top, certainly had more of the ball.

14:19But the goal when it came, I think it sort of started with a Calafuri burst in the inside left channel, or you were certainly involved there. And then he was really, really smart and alert to rob the ball in the opposition box, if you remember. He robbed the ball, gave it to Martin Odegaard. Martin Odegaard drove on. Cross is blocked in behind. And then we have a corner from which we score that opening goal. Yeah, I don't get a lot right. I turned to whoever was on my right-hand side. I can't remember who it was right now. And said 1-0 Calafuri before the corner was taken. Didn't necessarily anticipate it coming quite like that.

15:02But I just had a feeling. You know, another reason to include Calafiore, he is a real threat in these situations. Certainly more so than Myles Lewis-Gelly, you know, who I think would probably be on the halfway line in a situation like this. And with all the focus that inevitably goes to Gabriel or William Saliba, I do wonder if he's just a bit of a wild card in that penalty box. An extra man to pick up, an extra man to worry about. Obviously, it's a good delivery from Declan Rice, as we've become accustomed to seeing. But Bayern Deer was always going to be a problem for United on set pieces. I think he conceded a similar goal at Spurs last season.

15:42And we capitalised. And that was a massive difference on the day, the performance of the two keepers. Because David Raya, as we mentioned, bailed us out a little bit and Bayern Deer wasn't able to. Yeah, it wasn't necessarily explicit for Manchester United, but I saw Bruno Fernandes afterwards talking about it. I also saw Ruben Amorim discuss it in the press conference afterwards. The suggestion, rather than the sort of accusation, was that Bayon Deer had been fouled or pushed a bit. I also heard maybe Peter Schmeichel saying that there was a foul on Mason Mount, maybe. Well, I re-watched it this morning before we started.

16:25I think, you know, everyone's focused on the goalkeeper, and I think Saliba is there. but I don't think Saliba is, for example, doing a Ben White on Bayandir, right? I think he's just in the area and there's a defender with him and he's entitled to be in that area, by the way, Saliba. Bayandir, I think, tries to push Saliba out of the way and by the time he makes contact with the ball, he's not balanced. For me, I think your goalkeeper needs to be stronger there. I don't think it's a foul from Saliba. Speaking of fouls, though, if you look at that passage of play as the ball is coming in, watch Matthias Cunha just grab Martin Zubimendi in a kind of rugby tackle way.

17:09So if there's a foul in the box, there is a foul in the box. That was a very explicit foul. Whereas I think Saliba is just there to cause a bit of mayhem or cause a bit of disruption for the goalkeeper. The one that you mentioned, the corner, I think, that Raya got away, He punched one away from basically under his own crossbar. It was a Bruno Fernandes corner for Manchester United, you know, and that there's the difference between the two goalkeepers. Riot is decisive. He's strong. He makes a decision. He comes for the ball, gets the ball, gets it away. Whereas Bayon Deer gets kind of caught between, oh, do I have to deal with Saliba?

17:47Do I have to deal with the ball? It's bad decision-making, basically. I think he needs to focus on the ball. I'm glad he didn't, obviously. You got a touch on it. And Calafiori is there from close range to head home for 1-0. Yeah, and it was interesting because, you know, we've all read about the new directives about set pieces and holding and barging. And, you know, we saw Eberici Eze have a goal disallowed earlier in the day, right, in an unusual situation. I think I read that's the first time in six years that that rule's been applied. So, you know, we're in that weird space where, you know, no one's quite sure what the legal parameters are.

18:30So I think the away fans, there was kind of two cheers. There was the cheer of, oh, we've scored. And then a secondary cheer of, oh, great, it's standing as well. There was a kind of palpable relief about that. But I do think that's absolutely the right decision. Like if that was David Ryder and our goal, well, frankly, it wouldn't be because he's so much better in these situations. but second of all I would say your keeper, our keeper, any keeper just needs to be way stronger there I think it's a terrible error and we capitalised and it was a little bit against the run of play United were threatening a bit in those early stages, I think it was Burma who had the first shot on goal he looked really dangerous in that first half and to be honest the game didn't and we looked a bit shaky I think early on some misplaced passes, a couple of fouls, a couple of errors And I'm not sure the goal dramatically changed the pattern of that first half.

19:23I mean, I do think that United, I mean, I'm quite delighted about it, really, but we're a bit hard done by, frankly, to be 1-0 down. It was sort of against the run of play, I think. But that's the value of set pieces, right? Well, yes, yes. And we've proven that over the last couple of seasons that, you know, they can make a difference. These are the marginal gains, the things that we've been, you know, really good at, generally speaking, are attacking set pieces. Manchester United, I think, for a while have been poor defensively from set pieces. They conceded a lot of goals from set pieces. Yeah, I mean, after that, there was...

20:03What was I going to say? I've completely forgotten my... Lost my train of thought here. The United reaction... next note I had was that Zubimendi was booked was he booked? or did he just no I don't think he was booked but he gave away a free kick on the edge of the box that's it he wasn't booked the referee went to his pocket you're right and I thought he'd brought a yellow card but in fact it was his little spray can there you go nothing came of that other than Declan Rice took the ball right in the face yes he did Do you think there's a correlation between that moment and Declan Rice's overall performance?

20:49Is it possible that... He came around, he'd forgotten how to play football. Yeah, kind of. Football amnesia. The more it went on, the more I felt like he wasn't right, Declan Rice. The more the game went on, I was like, where is he? Like, he's not really involved. in the way that you would expect Declan Rice to be involved for a player of his quality and the way that he likes to sort of impose himself on games. He really wasn't in it at all. And I do wonder if, having taken that knock to the face, he was, you know, a little concussed, maybe. Maybe. I don't know. Obviously, I've no idea. But I did think that when he came off, I'm not sure to what extent the cameras caught this or not, Like it was a real trudge from the pitch.

21:42You know, he had the gait of an injured player. I don't think there is any suggestion that he was, but he just looked a bit broken, I think. He looked exhausted. And it certainly was one of his least eye-catching games. Like I've been reviewing some of the footage as well since the game, and you're just not really noticing Declan Rice. And that's incredibly unusual. Yes. He's normally a player who draws the eye. I think I saw that maybe he'd covered the least ground out of any of our midfielders as well. Yeah, I had a look at that. I'll tell you who's doing that stat now this season is SofaScore.

22:24Okay. If you want to have a look at that. Because you think of his role as being like, you know, covering the whole pitch box to box. Yeah. Like he did come off, in fairness. Somebody pointed that out to me because I made note of it in the player ratings. But yeah, the distance, Odegaard covered 11.2 kilometers, Zubimendi 11.2 kilometers, Rice 9.8. I mean, is it possible that that shortfall would have been made up? Yeah, I guess so. I mean, but he only came off. When did he come off? I mean, he only came off in the 83rd minute. so it's still quite a bit of distance to make up in seven minutes plus fucking six minutes of injury time.

23:11Where the hell did I get six minutes, by the way? I know we're getting ahead of ourselves here, but... Yeah, I definitely felt he was not at his best. Sure.

23:23And yeah, I felt that United continued to threaten, really, in the first half. They seem to be able to get, particularly in Burmo, into sort of dangerous two-on-two situations. Or, you know, a lot of what they're doing on the ball and a lot of Amerim's system seems to be about creating these kind of wide overloads. And I felt like they were doing that pretty effectively. What they didn't have was a number nine. So there was like more than one occasion where they'd get to the byline and pull the ball across goal just to an empty penalty area, which I was pretty grateful for. Dorgue did hit the post, didn't he?

24:00He did. He did. It was a good shot, actually. I think Raya was beaten, so a little touch of good fortune there. I'm just looking at the live blog to see sort of what else happened. Yeah, there was the Raya. You had that run where he sort of, you know, muddled his way through our entire team. Yeah, that was not great. Poor shot, I think, straight at David Raya. But, you know, at the same time, there were moments for Arsenal. I suppose this is something that ties in a little bit with the piece that you wrote this morning and some of the quotes that Mikel Arteta spoke about after the game. I was laughing about this a little bit because before the start of the season, Lewis did a tactics column about how Victor Jokeres can make an impact at Arsenal.

24:49and after that game at Old Trafford in March, Mikel Arteta said, against Manchester United, we had 11 situations where we had open spaces to attack, 11 big ones. We used one. Top teams, they used nine. The situations were there. We didn't use them. And that's almost exactly what he said about yesterday. He said, we should have killed them in open play. I think that's what he said on Sky Sports afterwards. We should have killed them in open play. And there were moments, weren't there, when Arsenal had space and had space to run into. But I think it's more people will look at the final pass and that's clearly an issue.

25:37But I think the movement is the big one, right, where the runs that players are making don't give the player with the ball the options that you would like. And that's kind of what you've highlighted in your piece for The Athletic this morning. Yeah, I mean, you might have seen, I think somebody clipped up the various transition opportunities on social. And I was having a look through Wisecout as well. I mean, Arteta says there were 11 opportunities against United in the spring. He said seven or eight yesterday. So we are regressing, confirmed. but you know when he says we had seven or eight chances to kind of put them away but didn't execute properly you sort of think that sounds like hyperbole or an exaggeration and then you watch it back and you're like oh no that's that's pretty much accurate yeah I mean the passing is one aspect of it Martin Odegaard I think it was a really interesting case yesterday where I was seeing people during the game and after the game, some saying he played really well, another saying he played terribly.

26:46And I was kind of struggling to make sense of how that kind of diversity of opinion could coexist. And on reviewing the tapes, I sort of feel like to an extent both things are true in that he did some really good stuff and equally some stuff that wasn't great. I think his work rate was fantastic. He was trying to make things happen. He was pressing well. But his execution in the final third, that final pass, which so often we look to him to make, wasn't very good. I also think you make a great point about the movement. I mean, there were sort of three or four opportunities where Arsenal were breaking.

27:27Maybe David Raya claims a cross, bowls it out to Odegaard. He's got Saka, Martinelli and Jokeres all running ahead of him, but often in quite an unimaginative way, you know, just running like in straight lines within a narrow portion of the pitch, doing nothing to kind of stretch the play, to move defenders out of position. And you could almost see Odegaard at times sort of waiting for the right run and then it never coming. Yeah, there was one in particular where Martinelli just sort of, he tried to play it to Martinelli in the end, but Martinelli's run was just like where are you going? You need to give the team a little more width with your movement in that regard.

28:10So yeah, I take your point. I think there were things that Odegaard did in the attacking third that were good. There was a couple of passes to Saka, one in particular towards the end of the game where he, I don't know how he got the ball through to him. Saka had a shot which was deflected behind for a corner if you remember. There was one where he set him free down the right-hand side. There was a nice dribble where I think Luke Shaw was quite lucky to get away without getting a yellow card because he fouled him in the end. There was another one where he dribbled across the edge of the box, had a shot.

28:42I think it took a bit of a deflection. The keeper made a fairly routine save. And the other thing about Odegaard's performance yesterday was, well, only William Saliba made more clearances than Martin Odegaard yesterday. Yeah, I think he's right up there for regaining possession as well. Yeah, I think that tells you something about how Odegaard played, but also tells you something about the way Arsenal played. That if you're a captain and you're ostensibly your chief creative player is required to do that much defensive work, then it does tell you something about the way the overall performance has gone.

29:15But how do you view that sort of issue of playing in transition, of trying to do things a little more? well I think we saw it yesterday it wasn't necessarily effective in terms of end product but you could see that there was clearly an intent for Arsenal to get the ball forward more quickly to get men forward in support of the guy who had the ball like do you see some positives in the way that we tried to play even if the execution wasn't great because I think that's what a lot of people have been saying is that we have to get forward more quickly we have to get men forward to support more quickly.

29:54We tried to do that. It didn't really work out, but the intent was there. The endeavor was there. Is it the case that it just needs a little bit more time for that to sort of start coming together? Yeah, I think so. And I think, you know, we know how good Mikel Arteta is at sort of drilling the players on where they need to be out of possession. You know, the spaces they need to occupy, the kind of classic positional system. But I do feel that attack, you know, it can't just be left to improvisation as well. There needs to be serious work on, well, look, when Martin has the ball here, this is the run you need to make.

30:37And maybe that takes a bit of time. I also think that, you know, when we did get in good positions or when we did get it right, our execution technically was off again. You know, there was a moment where, like, you know, Martinelli put a pass out for a throw in. Jocheres put a cross into touch. Odegaard did at one point early in the second half play a really good through ball for Jocheres that put him one-on-one with De Ligt and he left the ball behind him. So, you know, we looked rusty, I think, in that final third. But I'm encouraged by the fact that, you know, we seem to be trying it. We seem to be doing something a little bit different.

31:20I mean, Arteta said afterwards, the problem is when you squander those transition moments, you get a transition against you. And that's what creates the kind of basketball game, as he called it, which in that first 45 minutes was like a hugely unfamiliar thing for Arsenal. I saw people afterwards saying like, oh no, not another performance like this. And I was like, this is a really atypical Arsenal display, particularly that first 45. It was end to end. And I think if United had had a centre forward on the pitch, they might well have punished us. But the second half was, I'm not going to say like it was much better from our perspective, but I thought tactically it was a bit more stable.

32:12The first half was really, really end-to-end. And I think when the game's like that, you have to capitalise. You have to score those goals because otherwise it's going to hurt you. Yeah, we didn't have much in the way of chances, did we, in the second half, apart from like really late in the game. The second one that I mentioned, and then there was a really brilliant piece of play from Saka, who like up to the point where he had that shot was as anonymous as I've ever really seen him. You know, we went to Old Trafford. I think this is another thing we have to bear in mind. We went to Old Trafford and we took three points with Declan Rice not, you know, really being in the game.

32:48When Saka and Martinelli, both of our wide players, were really, really peripheral. And that wasn't the case with Manchester United, for example. You've mentioned Mbomo, but I thought Matthias Cunha was dangerous as well, the way that he sort of drove at our defence. Yeah, do you know what? Like, he's a real maverick, that guy. Like, I'm sort of curious to see whether he, I was going to say, can adapt to a top team, but obviously he doesn't play for a top team. But, like, I'm intrigued to see how he fares at a bigger club. And if United get back, you know, to where they hope to be, how it works for him.

33:23Because he is a real outlier, like a real individual. And his technical ability, his kind of imagination, and his skill is excellent. I mean, you know, he's going to be a lot of fun for them to watch, I think. Yeah, I mean, he has a personality, I guess you would say. There was a couple of moments when Ben White went down injured and he seemed to take exception to that for whatever reason. He kept trying to talk to Martin Odegaard. Yeah, you could see it on TV. He was like trying, he was saying something to Ben White who like couldn't give a fuck what was being said. But you could see him at one point going, Martin, Martin, as he was talking to Odegaard, Odegaard was having a drink going, just shut the fuck up, basically.

34:06You know, he's down, he's going to get some treatment, he's coming off. I think that was just before Timber came on to replace White, Louis Skellion for Calafuri. So I think there is a sort of edge to his personality that could be either very useful or quite destructive. And obviously, I hope it's the latter more than anything else. Mikel Arteta did make changes. I wondered what might happen at halftime, if there was going to be something different in the way that we approach the game. I don't really think there was. But he took Jokeres and Martinelli off first and then put on Havertz and Madweke.

34:47I thought it was interesting, by the way, before we talk about them, I thought it was interesting that Calafuri stayed on. He picked up a booking, didn't he, towards the end of the first half. And I think there would have been times maybe last season where with Lewis Skelly on the bench or Jurian Timber on the bench, Mikel Arteta might have made that change. Yes, I agree. And he didn't. And I think that was a bit of a show of faith in Calafuri. I know he went off eventually, but to keep him on as long as he did. And I think it's probably really important that he sort of came through that test, particularly against a player as tricky and as quick as Umberma.

35:27Yeah, there was one tackle he made where he really was on the stretch and he got the ball and I was like, gosh, because it was one of those where you just knew if he didn't get the ball or if the contact was minimal, the United player would have gone down and it could have been an issue. I mean, I think Havertz gave us a bit of, it seems wrong to say physicality, but there was a sort of hard edge to the way that he ran in the centre forward position, which I think was kind of useful. I think he was unlucky not to get some free kicks over on the left-hand side, where there was one in particular where his heels were absolutely clipped and the referee just played on and gave United a throw on a day when I think he was, you know, he gave United quite a lot of free kicks, maybe because we made a lot of fouls, but then so did they, and we didn't quite get those free kicks.

36:19Then there was the change. Obviously, Timber and Lewis Skelly came on for Calafuri and White, which was a little bit concerning for me in a way because you don't want to change half of your back four with still basically, what was it, 20 minutes to play there, thereabouts, plus injury time. But there is a sort of reassurance or an assurance, isn't there, that you're taking Ben White and Ricardo Calafuri off and you're putting Jurian Timber and Miles Lewis-Skelly on. I was talking to somebody earlier on and they were saying, oh, well, I must see if I can find the text. It was about our first choice fullbacks.

37:00And I'm not sure we have first choice fullbacks anymore. I think when everyone's fit, we have the best depth and quality at fullback of any team in the Premier League. And maybe some sort of pecking order will emerge over the course of the season. But I feel equally comfortable, I would say, with Lewis Kelly and Timber, as I do with White and Califuri. I think it's a very nice position to be in. Yeah. I mean, I think Arteta spoke about it pre-game, about it being hugely competitive, the fullback area. I think, you know, it's a toss-up, really, between those four. You know, Adjuri and Timber arguably could play just as well on either side.

37:41So, yeah, I think we've got a great group there. I think they'll be picked for specific games. But, yeah, the one I'm keeping an eye on is Califuria. I just feel that Mikel Arteta is kind of doubly determined to find a role for him in the squad and sort of bed him in. So, curious to see how that plays out and, yeah, how it affects Miles. Should we talk about the three debutantes? because he did have three debutantes. I suppose let's start with Jokic because he's the high-profile one. All eyes were on him. All eyes were on how effective he might be for Arsenal and what he might bring to the team.

38:22I think he had a fairly quiet game. It's very hard to properly assess anyone after 60 minutes of competitive football. So I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to talk about bigger-picture things. I think yesterday had a relatively quiet day. It was a very physical battle with De Ligt, wasn't it? The defender always has a little bit of an advantage in that regard, I think, because they're facing play. And Jokeres, as we've said, isn't really a guy who plays a lot or likes to play a lot with his back to goal. He had to do quite a bit of that yesterday. There wasn't a great deal of service for him in terms of chances.

39:03But at the same time, when he did get a bit of service, he didn't do a lot with it. So I think it's just one of those where you've played an hour there or thereabouts, been part of a winning team and his integration, his physical integration and his relationships with his teammates will continue to build. Yeah, I still think if Kai Havertz hadn't picked up that injury, you know, a week before the season started, I think there's a very good chance he would have started this game. Because I think Jokeres is still getting up to speed physically, tactically. I mean, you mentioned De Ligt and the thought occurred to me during the game.

39:42How many times in the Portuguese league does he come up against a centre-half who can sort of match him for power like De Ligt? I know there was one great moment where he just absolutely barged De Ligt off the ball. Yeah. I do think like the Premier League is going to be a different challenge for Jokeres. And, you know, if he didn't know that already, I think he learned it yesterday. It's not even that De Ligt's particularly outstanding, but I just think, you know, he can go shoulder to shoulder with him. And that probably is a bit of a change for him. I think, you know, clearly these transition moments are where he can capitalise, but he needs the service.

40:26And I think his runs are good. You know, he's a goal scorer. He knows the moves he needs to make. I think it's more maybe the wide players and how they interact with that and how they can pull markers away from him that we need to refine and look at. I use the word rusty to describe us in attack and I would put, I would say the same of Jokeres you know, I mentioned there was a couple of moments there was that one miscue cross the one where he left the ball behind him yeah, he looks like a player playing himself into shape sure, yeah, I think that's right and I thought it was interesting as well I asked Arteta about him after the game and I sort of thought he'd immediately talk about the transitions and, you know needing to play to his strengths.

41:12Actually, the first thing he did was talk about pressing and say he's got a way to go in terms of press and he's still adapting to that. And I think when Havertz came on, that was maybe the one area where you saw really what Havertz offers. One of the reasons Mikael loves him is that pressing ability, what he does off the ball defensively, which I know is not going to get anyone excited, but I think it does get Mikel quite excited. So, yeah, I thought it was interesting and I sort of feel like it's just incredibly early. But, yeah, I'm curious to see, you know, it's Leeds at home next week. He scored in his last home game, albeit friendly.

41:58You'd have to think if he starts that one, you know, I'd be backing him to get off the mark. And Sky, by the way, commiserations to Sky for Sesco not starting. I'm sure they had the split screen on them pre-game doing their warm-ups, and they must have been absolutely gutted about that. Well, I didn't watch any of the build-up. I did watch some of the post-game stuff. Obviously, it's very amusing to see Roy Keane, his voice get higher and higher and higher as he sort of implores Manchester United to be better than they actually are. You never go full leprechaun, Roy. Come on now. Yeah, at one point, I think only dogs could hear him.

42:35He was talking that high. I must say, I did think when Jokers came off and then Cesco came on, I was thinking, oh no, this script has been written, hasn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fortunately, it didn't come to pass. Other debutantes, Zubimendi, what did you make of Zubimendi? He was good, tidy, not spectacular. He got a big whack early on, didn't he? He certainly did. Yeah, welcome to the Premier League. Have an elbow in the face that goes unpunished. yeah you know yeah there is the welcome to the premier league welcome to old trafford welcome to pgmol welcome to to var um yeah it was one of those where you know he probably should have got a free kick but play went on and um yeah maybe it's not a bad lesson to learn very early on in your premier league career but tidy you know i think it is going to take him a little bit of time just to adapt but I don't really have too many worries about him by the way yeah you mentioned but a few people said where was Norgaard um slight injury yeah he had a little niggle of some description and wasn't available so yes in a way did Mikhail take a favor because you know he had to leave people out right no Jakub Kivio in the matchday squad uh Max Dowman traveled but but not involved um and yeah one or two more probably senior players I'm forgetting the likes of uh Zinchenko, Rhys Nelson.

44:01Yeah. Yeah. Not involved at all. Yeah. It's a big squad. It certainly is. We might talk about that a bit more in part two. And then Noni Marueke came on on the left-hand side. People might read something into that. Leandro Trossard would have been, I guess, the more typical substitute in that sense. But he is just back from injury, isn't he? And maybe, you know, the manager was looking for something a little different on the left-hand side than what Trossard brings to the team. But yeah, he came on, he was all right. He did have that chance towards the end, didn't he? After that really good piece of play from Bakayo Saka over on the left-hand side when he came across.

44:42And it sort of looked like a bad miss, but I think the defender got a touch there, which prevented the ball getting to Madweke properly. So, yeah. I think we just have to sort of note the fact that since Maduaki was signed with, you know, a lot of the discussion and a lot of the kind of briefing around it suggesting he's coming in, or yes, to play both flanks, but, you know, be a backup for Bukayo Saka as part of that. We've seen him play, what, three times in an Arsenal shirt and on every occasion it's been left wing. And I think it's approaching the point where that's not coincidence, I feel like Mikel Arteta really thinks he can make a contribution there.

45:34And yeah, interesting. I guess he's thinking he wanted Maduweke's kind of speed on the break, maybe in the last stages. He's good physically as well. So maybe he felt he could offer something defensively there. But yeah, interesting that Trossard didn't get off the bench. might be something to that might just be fitness like you say he's not been back in full training so yeah and I agree with Zubemendi you know tidy at times nice view sort of contributed to those turnover moments for gaining possession yeah nippy nippy little tackler isn't he he gets his foot in quite well there was one in particular I think maybe in the first half where he got back in the right back position and won the ball and got us going again.

46:24So, yeah, I think there's things to be encouraged about. It's very hard to judge anyone really individually when the collective performance is below par, I think it's fair to say, beyond the defensive aspects of our game, which we pointed out earlier on. Well, that's it. I mean, inevitably we're going to talk about the new signings because they're new. But I think if we went through every Arsenal player on the pitch, you know, we'd have gripes pretty much, apart from maybe the centre-halves. I mean, I thought Daviraj made two good saves, particularly that one from Kuna in the first half. But he also had a couple of slightly wobbly moments on the ball.

47:03Yeah. So, you know, it just wasn't a perfect display by any means from anybody. And, yeah. But, Andrew... Three points. How much do we care? That's it. That's it. You know, I was going to ask you, like, you know, we could be sitting here this morning talking about an Arsenal team that played really well and lost the game. And that's, you know, people will say, well, you can take comfort in the way that you played, et cetera, et cetera. But, you know, you still lose a game. You know, I'm sort of low level, not concerned. And, you know, obviously when you don't play as well as you would like to play, it raises questions in your mind about, you know, what we're doing and how we're doing it.

47:48But at the same time, I just, I think there's a need to sort of compartmentalize this game, the opening game of the season, away from home, at a difficult place to go. after a summer in which there's been so much discussion about Arsenal and the title and our expectations and the demands on Mikel Arteta to lift silverware this season. Like, there is a lot of external pressure. Some of that has got to seep in somewhere along the way. And I think we were handed a very, very tough start to the season, and we've come through it with a win. and there's a week now where we can, I don't want to say relax because I think there's hard work to do and there will be hard work to do on the training ground, but it felt very much like yesterday was one of those days where the headlines could have been all about Arsenal fall at the first hurdle.

48:44You know, despite the fact they went and bought a striker and they bought him in film, they spent 200 million pounds this summer and they went to Old Trafford and they couldn't get the result or they couldn't get a win. You know, we know, I think, how that narrative would have played out in the media and on Sky yesterday and all the rest of it. And people are entirely entitled to feel how they feel about their performance. You know, if you want to grade it from one to 10 where you don't give a fuck about how we played to 10 where you're really worried about the fact we didn't make the most of our transition moments, that's absolutely fine.

49:19But I think over the course of this week, those discussions and debates can take place with the safety net of the three points that we got yesterday and that's by far for me the most important thing and i think from here you know we can start focusing a little bit more a little bit more on how we're playing and how effective we are and how capable we're going to be of winning the amount of games we want to win this season but that was like uh oh fuck it was a really really tough start to the season what's that fucking thing they make horses do you know the one where it's like just a giant wall you know right steeplechase no um is it there's a horse noise and everything for you is it called puissance where they just like it's a it's only one big wall and they make the horse i think you're right yeah yesterday was a bit of footballing puissance we had a fucking giant wall and we We got on our horse and we jumped over it and didn't knock all the bricks down.

50:22And now we can sort of canter our way into the first home game of the new season. Yeah, couldn't agree more. I mean, Old Trafford, to be honest with you, is a fixture that I just want out the way as soon as possible. Same. And to have it out the way, have three points in the bag is a great outcome. And I do think there was a little bit of pressure, you know, to going not quite last, but, you know, the penultimate game of the weekend. Liverpool have, you know, snatched a win in the last five minutes. Their new signings have been on display. Ekitike scored and, you know, City have strolled past, to be fair, a pretty dismal Wolves team, but looked the business in doing it.

51:09So there is a little bit of pressure there. and we've gone and got three very very very valuable points yeah it's a great start it is undeniably a great start and i just felt looking at arteta in his press conference you know he knew he really knew the value of those points and that result and you know yes there's stuff that needs to be worked on but that's fine he'll be happy to to get into that over the next seven days with the comfort and the cushion of those three points yeah 100 you could see the way he talked to sky afterwards and in the press conference that there was a sense of relief i think from him as well because he knew a we didn't play that well and b you know it would have just heaped a bit more pressure on everything if we'd gone there and not got the right result if we got b yeah listen you know however it would have happened yeah you know whether it was against the run of play whether it was a contentious decision whether we got played off the park you know there's no fucking good way to start a season when you've got when you've got beaten so no you know and you know i do think maybe because the window is still open and people still have hopes questions and demands around that and i think there's just a little bit of um kind of anxiety in the fan base at the minute i think I think anything but a win could have provoked a pretty spicy response.

52:35So I'm delighted that we got the result. Yes, me too. Okay. Well, there are questions and people have questions. So we will deal with some of those questions after we take a little break here. So we'll be back with those in part two right after this.

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55:32Welcome back to the Arsecast Extra. This is part two of the show where we answer the questions that you send to us on bluesky at gunnerblog.bsky.social and at arseblog.com. Also on the Arseblog Discord chat server, which you get access to if you are an Arseblog member on Patreon. Before we get into the listener questions, James, you mentioned something in the first half about the new rules regarding grappling and holding in the box. We had thought that the only new rule this season that would be applied in the opening weeks of the campaign and then pretty much forgotten about was the goalkeeper hanging on to the ball for too long, at which point the referee can give a corner.

56:13but the grappling and holding one came a couple of days before the start of the season. I did want to ask you what you think of that, because for me, while I sort of understand it to an extent, it feels like this could open up a Pandora's box of rampant inconsistency, because I think when you look at the way corners and set pieces are defended, the way players hold on and wrestle these days. Like a referee could see a foul one way in one game and another referee will see a foul another way in another game. And it just feels to me like a really odd thing to start cracking down on because it is only going to be inconsistent, in my opinion, and it's going to drive people mad.

57:04Yeah, it's funny. Now we're talking about it, I'm having a sort of dim memory of this happening before. maybe an international tournament where they kind of sought to clamp down on it. And it basically just resulted in a shit ton of penalties. Might have been right in the early days of VAR. But I think it's a noble, is that the right word? I think it's sort of noble principle to sort of say, we're going to clean this up because it is going on, you know, at every dead ball. but it also feels like one of those things that i i just don't know how it's going to be policed or enforced and so many of the instances of holding where a player appeals or an arm goes up um when you review the footage it's one guy who's got hold of his marker shirt and then his markers got hold of his shirt and i think so much of it is 50 50 so what's what do we do in that situation is they're just an amnesty on that.

58:09So I think it's going to be incredibly, I feel like the only way for them to actually attack it would be to be incredibly hard line and do what I alluded to earlier and sort of, you know, give a load of penalties and see if that has some sort of impact. But to be honest, I don't see, I think that would have happened this weekend already if it was going to happen. Yeah, it's such a weird one. I remember a game a couple of years ago, it might've been, I think maybe Fulham were involved i can't remember what it was but a corner was coming in and the referee was sort of there was a striker and there was a defender and the two of them were grappling and it was like 50 50 six of one half a dozen of the other and the referee stopped it and said to both these players listen you know you got to stop doing that they went to take the corner again the two players were at it again and the referee called both the players over again it was like 50 50 the referee called them both over and said you just stop that and then the corner came in i think the third time lucky the corner came in the attacker and the defender are holding on to each other the attacker just threw himself to the ground the referee gave a penalty and it was like you've just been absolutely fucking played here you know and there's so much of it going on in every aspect of a corner like all the players are doing it the way we and i took that corner yesterday by the way, it was quite interesting, where we had five players standing on the edge of the box waiting to make a run into the box, into the penalty area.

59:38They did that in pre-season. Yeah, we saw a bit of that, all right. And this is where I'm saying, like, everyone's focusing on, well, has Saliba fouled the goalkeeper? But look at Matthias Cunha. And look at what he does when Zubimendi runs into the box. He literally just puts his arms around him. So I've got no idea how they're going to police this with any consistency at all. Could that set-piece routine, by the way, be linked to the introduction of these rules, you know, in order to separate us from the opposition and ensure that we're not penalised for pushing or pulling or tugging. And also maybe to sort of not incentivise, but tempt them into making those sorts of blocking fouls or anything.

1:00:18You know, the more movement we have, the more likely we are to be awarded. I mean, it sounds, it's a hypothetical, of course, when it comes to Arsenal, but the more likely we'd theoretically be to be awarded a penalty. I don't know. I'm really curious to see how that one plays out. Even the goalkeeper one, you know, the, is it eight seconds? Yeah. Is that right? There were a couple of instances yesterday where Jokeres was very clearly sort of just trying to slow Bindia down, right? Standing in front of him, yeah. Standing in front of him, effectively, because he knows if this gets to eight, it's a corner.

1:00:56and yet the referee was kind of intervening and not quite blowing up, but sort of making Jokeres... I think he did give a free kick at one point. He gave a free kick, yeah. Yeah, he gave a free kick, yeah. Yeah, and it's sort of like, he wasn't really doing much wrong, but obviously players are going to look to prey on that now. So there's a sort of bit of a grey area, I think, around that whole thing. Is there a trade-off maybe that, you know, if the goalkeeper has to release the ball in eight seconds, they are going to penalise players who make it difficult for him to do that, you know, which might be fair enough, you know?

1:01:27But I've never seen that implemented before, really, where a player stands in front of the goalkeeper. I mean, how many times have we seen over the last couple of seasons David Raya blocked off as he's trying to move the ball quickly? I can remember like a handful of occasions where players have literally stood in the way of David Raya trying to block the shot and the referee hasn't done a thing about it. So maybe it's tied to that new rule. So we'll wait and see. I wonder as well, I feel, here we go. CC Gunner on Blue Sky said, goodly morning. Do you think the eight second goalkeeper rule had an impact on the game and the way we played?

1:02:03The urgency to deploy the ball earlier appears to lead to more counterattacks with less time to reset and build from the back. Yeah, maybe. I mean, I could see a couple of times where Raya had the ball and you could see he was aware of it. And he just sort of lumped the ball downfield. I mean, I think it probably, yeah, it's hard to tell after one game, isn't it? If that's correlation or causation. But if it does make it a slightly more transitional, quick end-to-end game, I mean, I think that'll be a really positive change for the league. Well, what about this? This is a question from AB underscore Gooner on the Discord.

1:02:39He said, morning, gents. While I'm not defending how we played, it did seem like we really tried to be very direct and quick and it was poorly executed and left us quite vulnerable. Is this the other side of the coin that fans don't think about? We want to say we want to be more direct, but we also saw how open that leaves us. Yeah, and as I said, that first half in particular was uncharacteristically open. I'm just finding what McKell said in the press conference now. I've got a follow-up question to this, by the way. Okay, yeah. Yeah, so he said, I think there were seven, eight situations where the ball is completely open to play through and we are on and we are attacking the keeper and we give that ball away and then it becomes a basketball game.

1:03:27And again, a basketball game against a team that is extremely, extremely good at finishing actions with the quality that they have. That's a very difficult thing to do.

1:03:40Yeah, that's kind of anathema to Michel Arteta. I mean, that is everything he's sought to avoid, I think, in the way that he has set up his team. And that's kind of a battle, probably an internal battle he sort of has to face, really. Like, is he really prepared to be this slightly more reactive transitional team rather than one that is as controlled as we normally see? And also, to be honest, how many games a season will afford him the opportunity to do that? Like when we play Leeds at home next week, are we going to have these big transitional moments or are they going to be eight men behind the ball and we're in the horseshoe again?

1:04:27You know? Yeah. Well, we don't have long to find out. The other question I was going to follow up on was from Hickory Victory Yuck on the Discord. That is a good name. Very good. He said, the one thing that worried me a bit was how much time we gave them on the ball at the back. No one, including Odegaard, was pressing when they had the ball at the back. Does that concern you? Or do you see it as a tactical shift to let the team play out from the back and then hit them on the counterattack? So seed possession a little bit. Yeah, we had another question about pressing that I feel like I need to find.

1:05:06here you go Big Red Arsenal said hi chap so much of the way we defend and control games is dependent on our press and penning the opposition in their own half why do you think United were able to bypass it so frequently with just a couple of passes and how much of it is linked to having Jochores up front well I think Mikel volunteered really that Jochores has a way to go on the pressing. I mean, his answer was, he did a lot of things very good. You can tell, especially in our high pressing, the rhythm that we demand, especially in the first half, we're giving a bit too much time. It's something that we have to work on, especially there.

1:05:51I mean, he couldn't be much clearer than that, could he? No, I don't think so. He said it very fast. So I don't think it massively registered, but yeah. Yeah, clearly that's something that Jokeres, they'll be looking for him to improve on. And, you know, you mentioned that data earlier about the midfield and how much ground they covered. I think he covered plenty yesterday, but perhaps not, you know, quite the intensity that Arteta would want his man leading the line to have. I also think, you know, United have this slightly unusual, unconventional system, but it struck me yesterday that it's partly designed to enable them to have those overloads at the back and play out in that way you know they've got three centre-halves they've got central refielders dropping in they've got a wing back as well it it's no great surprise that they're able to play two or three passes and escape in the wide areas like they've literally got the numbers there um the bigger question is like when they get into the final third can they create the overload in those situations sure and you know i'm not sure they did that often enough yesterday but yeah i guess this is going to be a kind of ongoing debate because there is a world where Arteta gets hold of Jocarez and kind of changes him, you know, and turns him into a pressing forward who's like, you know, harrying defenders and, you know, a link-up player.

1:07:33I mean, I noticed in the warm-up yesterday, they were doing a lot of like playing the ball into his feet and him practising sort of layoffs to put Martinelli and Saka through in on goal. and maybe there is a world where Jocares kind of evolves and becomes that nine. But he is 27.

1:07:55So, you know, he's shown adaptability throughout his career. But my gut would say he kind of is what he is. And really what Arsenal needs to do probably is lean into the strengths he already has. There'll be a degree of adaptation and flexibility on his part, but you don't buy a striker like Vitiokarez for that sort of money to ask them to be Kai Havertz. No, I think that's completely right. I think it's completely right. But I think, as we've said before he signed and since, that there is going to be some adaptation needed from us to him and from him to us. So it's finding that balance, I think, will be very interesting.

1:08:39But yeah, the press is important. I think when Arsenal have been really good, when the football we've played has been really good and really effective, the press has been superb, coordinated. They would show clips of it on Monday Night Football. Look at what Arsenal did here. One player has the ball, all of a sudden there's four players around him. They cut off all the passing lanes. and then we are effective in the final third with the final actions, the final pass, the shot, whatever it might be. So I do think there is an interesting aspect to that. I don't know if it was deliberate yesterday to let United have the ball at the back so we could have space to transition into, but maybe there is going to be an element of that to the way that we play this season where if you do want to get the best out of a player like Jokeres, then you kind of have to let the opposition have the ball a bit and rely on your defence or your midfielders to win it back and then spring forward.

1:09:40Yeah, very possibly.

1:09:45We've got some transfer questions, Andrew. Oh my goodness. Believe it or not. I thought the wording of this one warranted inclusion from Matt on Blue Sky. I think I know the one you mean, actually, because I think I've picked that one out as well. If it is this one, it's at Toy That Kills on Blue Sky. That's the one. And Matt says, I'm excited to see how Madueke turns out. But if our choice to sign him directly leads to Eze joining Spurs instead, can you think of a more negligent piece of transfer business in the history of football? It started so well. I really like this, but is this not the worst thing that's ever happened in the history of humanity?

1:10:31That's ever happened in the history of the sport. I would say that I don't really think the Madweke deal is in any way linked to Eze. Yeah. I think it's distinct from that. I think Arsenal view it in that way, yeah. Yeah. We might not. No, of course, but I think from a fan's perspective, you can look at it that way. Matt may not, it seems. Yeah, Matt definitely doesn't. I hope that toy is insentious to come back to life. The username hints at a darkness within Matt. You know, I think as you've reported and David Ornstein has reported a bit as well and others have reported that there's, to me, a direct link between Ethan Wannery's situation and Eze and Arsenal's interest in Eze.

1:11:25And once Weneri was sorted, the interest in Eze went a bit quiet. And I don't think you need to be a fucking genius to work out why that might be. So that's not to say that Eze still couldn't do a job for Arsenal or still add something to this squad. But I think there is a direct relationship between Eze and Weneri. And there isn't really one between Eze and Marweke. I mean, we did have another one here. Magnus Holmberg saying, after seeing Semenyo's performance against Liverpool, I'd say we should rather go for him than Eze. Who would you prefer? And there were a number of questions about whether, after looking at yesterday, let me see if I can find one.

1:12:11I can't find one. But basically the question was, if you're looking at this game yesterday, does it make an addition on the left-hand side even more important than it already seems to be in the minds of many people? You know, is that unfair based on the collective performance or do you understand why people will be looking at the left and thinking, hey, you know, if we are going to do something else in this window, then that's the place. I seem to remember in January, you were banging the Semenyo drum. Yeah. You like him, don't you? Yeah, I think he's really good. I mean, to be fair, wow, what a performance he had at the weekend in trying circumstances as well.

1:12:53Depressing circumstances, isn't it? The first game of the new season and we're having to deal with some fucking bullshit like that. And he has to deal with that. It's absolutely terrible. And I hope that, you know, whatever way it plays out, whoever that is, is dealt with in the strongest possible terms by Liverpool. Because that kind of shit is just unacceptable. Yeah, I think he would have been... obviously well within his rights to walk off the pitch, but to stay on it and score two goals. I quite like that as a response, I have to say. Yeah, he's a great player. I do think, I'll have to check, but I feel like Bournemouth have sold almost all their team.

1:13:33So I'm a little bit due as to how many more they can let go. They just sold Utara, didn't they, to Brentford for big money. So I'm not, yeah. I don't think they need any money this summer, Bournemouth, when you look at who they've sold, because they sold Hausson to Real Madrid and Zabarni to PSG and Utara, like you say, is gone as well. I think they're worth about 70 million on Semenyo, based on reports. It's a lot. But he's a good player. I think he would improve us. Yeah, I remember in January feeling like, oh yeah I guess he's kind of on a par with what we've got I think actually at the moment I think he would be an upgrade um but unless Madureke turns out to be brilliant by the way which could happen um so on the SA thing it's a tough one isn't it like I I remember last was Was it last summer when we did the Ali Pali show and we were all picking our dream signings?

1:14:46And I think mine was Eze. Like I've, I've always wanted Arsenal and there's an emotional dimension to it. It's a great story. Him coming home, back to the club where he was as a kid, London boy. Arsenal fan, you know, as a kid anyway. Arsenal family, like, you know, number 10 shirts, they're waiting for him. I'd love it. I'd love it. And I think the problem is that because Arsenal did explore it early in the summer, because that was quite widely reported, fan base, there was certainly a stage where they'd sort of convinced themselves it was happening. And however much we might have tried to warn against that or guard against that, that sort of caught hold.

1:15:36and now he may well, I mean, I think he probably will sign for Spurs. Poor guy. Nobody deserves that. I mean, it's him I feel sorry for most of all in this. But, I mean, there is always the possibility. Someone asked me this morning, they were like, is there any chance Arsenal are doing what United did to Newcastle on Sesco, where they let another club do all the running in terms of establishing the price and then step in at the last minute? Um, and I guess there's a chance and I guess you'd be telling me or another reporters, no, no, no, we're not interested sort of thing to preserve that, um, the, the integrity of that strategy.

1:16:24But yeah, I don't think that's what's happening. I think, as you said, it was something that was explored when there was a bit of jeopardy around Ethan. And I have to say, if you accept that Arsenal don't see Eze as a left winger, I mean, you can debate that. But if you take him as a central player, it's very difficult to see I think how he and Ethan sort of coexist actually like yeah I agree with that I'm not sure we have the minutes to go around I mean I think you know I think there is a case that you could play on the left but it would need you to play pretty differently stylistically and maybe ask something very different of your left back.

1:17:15So, yeah, at this point, I've kind of resigned myself to it not happening. And I think if something does happen, it will be a more conventional left winger. But even there, a domino has to fall. I mean, there's no way we're going into a season with Martinelli, Trossard, Madueke and a new signing in that position. There's just no way. And when you were saying maybe there's a chance, all I could think of was Jim Carrey in Dumas. So you're telling me there's a chance? Yeah. So I don't know, man. I mean, yeah. Yeah. I'd love to say I wish Jose Luck at Spurs, but obviously I don't. No. Well, another is sort of a transfer related one comes from Alessandra Hedgeblog, who says, Kivior not on the bench.

1:18:08If he's not getting picked, surely we have to sell to retain any value. And there was, I think, a decision to be made by Mikel Arteta yesterday when it came to the defensive players on the bench. It was going to be, I think Norgard made it a little bit easier with one of them, by not being available, rather, but Mosquera or Kivior. And he's made a decision on Mosquera, who has no Premier League experience. It sort of says something, whether you think it's fair or unfair or otherwise, about where Kivior stands in the pecking order. And does that then necessitate Arsenal trying or maybe making a slightly difficult decision by letting a player go who could be useful and could be important in terms of giving us depth this season, but the time is right to sell and maybe the right time to sell.

1:19:05is when it is just a little bit uncomfortable. Yeah, I mean, I did an update on Kivio in our deal sheet about a week ago, basically saying, you know, while he is happy at Arsenal, he wants to play. And I think it won't have escaped his attention that in pre-season, Calafiore was picked ahead of him to start games at left centre-back. and obviously now Old Trafford, Mosquera on the bench ahead of him. I mean, you know, it might be the case that something is advancing. I don't think it is yet, but it might be if something, they might just be protecting him for a sale, you know, but it doesn't look good for him currently.

1:19:53And I think a really interesting discussion on KVL is price because I put this update out and I think, you know, Porto had been interested at kind of sort of the 25 million sort of mark. And I had fans come back and say like, minimum 45 for Kivior, given what he did in last season, you know, he's a 50 million pound defender or something like that. And I was just like, that ain't happening. Like if you're selling this player to Europe, I think you have, I think we've got to be realistic about what sort of fee is attainable. What sounds reasonable to you? I think somewhere around 30 million sounds reasonable.

1:20:37Euros. Are we talking euros or pounds or whatever it is? Yeah. 25 to 30. 30 million euros would be about, what, 27 million pounds, something like that. Yeah. How much did Hausson go for to Real Madrid? A lot. 50 million quid. Yeah, so 50 million, but for a guy who's quite a bit younger and who was… That is Real Madrid, though. And are Real Madrid coming for Kivio? No, no, they're not, of course. But what I'm saying is I think if you're looking at the potential of someone like Hausson, you're going to pay 50 odd million, which will look like nothing if he does really well at Real Madrid to bring him in at 20 years of age.

1:21:11Whereas Kivior did really well at the end of last season. I think we've said time and time again that he was probably or probably exceeded people's expectations because there was such a big amount of worry about him when Gabriel got injured. I said time again, I think his stock has risen over the course of last season. But we can't ignore the fact that for the most part, since he arrived at Arsenal, he has been a bit part player. He's been a guy who fills in when somebody's injured. He played at left back for a bit because we didn't have any left backs. You know, he was always going to be second choice at the very least to Gabriel, possibly third choice.

1:21:47If, you know, if Tommy Asu had been fit, he probably would have been third choice in that regard as well. So he's been like a decent player for us. And I think he is a decent player. And I think he'll go somewhere and play regular first team football because he's good enough to do that. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking we are selling one of our best, most important first team players because that's not what his role has been at Arsenal. So for me, if we get something in the region of 30 million for him, that seems like good business. Yeah. We've got to get some people out. You know, this is a...

1:22:21Pep Guardiola was quite interesting on this. this week, if you can ever bear to stomach listening to Pep Guardiola. What did he say? He basically said... It's so hard. So hard. Yeah. He said, we cannot replace him. No, he said, he was asked about the squad and he said, too much, too many people, too many players. I like a deep squad to compete in all competitions, but I don't want to leave players at home. I don't want it. It's not healthy. You cannot create a good vibe or atmosphere to compete. Everyone has to feel they can play and can help and compete with their mate for the opponent. In the next two weeks, people would talk with players and agents to find a solution.

1:23:09So that's very much his start. We know he and Mikhail Seta share a lot. I don't know where Mikhail stands on the size of the current Arsenal squad, but I think Guardiola has a point. You know, it's good to have a big squad, but there's a point where it becomes too big and that can be unwieldy, unworkable. And that can have a bit of a poisonous effect. You know, if you're having to week in, week out, leave people at home, it's very, very, very difficult to maintain their morale. For sure. You know, and you're not talking about people are doing a Winston Bogart. you're talking about players who basically want to play i mean i i someone like reese nelson for example i just cannot understand why he and his agent have not pushed really really hard to get away from arsenal and i mean that in the most respectful way possible but for the sake of his next birthday, something like that.

1:24:21You know, your career is short. Go and play. And listen, you know, I don't know that you get a huge amount of money for Reece Nelson, but I can't believe that we're into, like, the final week or two of the window and we're sitting here wondering, you know, is he going to go? Will it be another loan, which is kind of, God, not again. Or will the usual thing happen where, like, a couple of days before the end of the transfer window, he gets a big injury and he can't go anywhere and he spends another period of months and months in limbo. You know, I just don't really understand it. What I would say is that a club has to meet Arsenal's demands, you know.

1:25:02And I don't, obviously nobody's done that on Rhys or Zinchenko or any of these guys. And so maybe we have to,

1:25:16I was about to say maybe we have to be a bit less ambitious in terms of sort of what we're asking for. You know, I've heard that Arsenal want about 20 million for Rhys Nelson. Is a club going to pay that? Maybe, but I'm not sure. And yet all the time, every time I turn the sports news on, I feel like Liverpool are selling a bloke I haven't heard of. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. or Mad City letting Academy graduates go for 30 million, 35 million. Or Amari Hutchison, who was in our Academy a couple of years ago, going to Forest for 30 plus million. You know, we are not good sellers. There's no, I don't think there's any, I don't think you can argue that really.

1:26:07Like the numbers speak for themselves. The last summer was an outlier, really. And I slightly worry about the next couple of weeks because we do have to get some of these numbers out. And that is going to mean probably doing deals that we wouldn't have accepted in the start of the summer. Yeah, well, market forces and all that, you know. By the way, just on the Kivio thing, last week I said, oh, we'll come back to Jack Rice's question. We never came back to it. Okay. To his credit, he has pursued me. He said, hi guys, you forgot to go back to my question last week. If we sold Kivior and only had Calafuri as left centre-back backup, are we making ourselves vulnerable to another Saliba and Tommy getting injured at crucial time in the season situation happening again?

1:26:59Mosquera can play both centre-half positions. So I think that's your slight level of insurance in that regard. As can probably Timber, as can probably White. You know what I mean? In an emergency. Yeah. Maybe it leaves you, as we saw yesterday, Calafiore started at left back, and that might be a thing that Mikel Arteta is very keen on doing. I mean, is it beyond the realms of possibility that if we do make another signing before the end of the window, if we do sell Kivio, or if we do sell Zinchenko, that there's a defensive addition rather than an attacking addition? Just to put everybody's minds in a cool, zen-like place before the end of the window, the idea of Arsenal signing a hybrid left-back rather than a left-winger.

1:27:49That should make everybody feel nice and chilled, I think. Well, look, even if we get rid of Zinchenko and Kivyov, get rid sounds harsh, even if we sell them we still have one two three four five six seven seven sort of very good defenders is that enough i think it probably is but i mean ultimately like we it may just sort of be like we may not have the numbers to be able to replace them Do you know what I mean? We might not have the space in the squad for it. Sure. Depends on who else goes.

1:28:35So, yeah. I don't think we'll sign another defender. I'd be surprised. Okay. I wouldn't, but there you go. You never should be. No, no, no. Do you think you should have been including Norgon on the bench? We've dealt with that. Eight second rule. Pressing. I've got some. I've got a couple here, actually, if you want. So Pete Coe says, it seems as if Lewis Skelly gets the short end of bad decisions from the referee more often than not. Do you feel like he will become our new Granit Xhaka, where every foul is treated as a potential sending off, or am I just being paranoid? And I think he was unlucky to get booked yesterday.

1:29:19Yeah, but it was, I mean. I mean, he took a bad touch, but then he played the ball. Yeah, yeah. It was a familiar... I mean, when referees start to have that association with you... That's, yeah. It gets tricky, doesn't it? It does, because I... I do think that he... I'm such an admirer of his courage and risk-taking in possession. and yet i do think that there's a there's a how can i phrase it that there's still he still needs to learn kind of the parameters of when and where that's best applied i think sure i i i get that completely and i agree with you to an extent i just think yesterday it felt like like whatever Okay, give a free kick.

1:30:15If you think he's made a foul there, give a free kick. But look, he took a poor touch. He made up for it by playing the ball and then caught the player on the follow through, which foul, not a foul. You know, your mileage might vary on that. But I don't think there was any need to book him in that position. It felt a little bit, it did worry me a bit. Like I thought, if that's another player, are they getting booked there? And I wasn't sure. He has got a bit of a reputation, hasn't he? It precedes him, unfortunately. And that will be a factor in referees' minds. That kind of prejudice is, you know, real.

1:30:52So I think that's a bit of a worry. And again, it's why it might not be the worst thing for him. I think many times in the last, you know, eight months since he's broken into the team, we found ourselves kind of yearning for him to enjoy a bit of a quiet period. And it hasn't happened for many, many reasons. officiating being one, being brilliant and getting his England debut and scoring and all these things are part of that as well. But I really feel with Myles like it wouldn't be the worst thing for his career to just have a couple of months slightly out of the spotlight. Whether that is something that Mikel Arteta would engineer, I don't know.

1:31:35Whether it will just happen organically if Calafuri sort of kicks on and holds that place for a bit. You know, that might be one way. But yeah, I do worry a bit about Myles' reputation among referees and how that might influence decisions. By the way, on the referees, we didn't mention it. Did you think United had a shout for a penalty? The Saliba sliding in on Cunha late on. Not for me. I've only seen, so I didn't see it in real time. It was quite far from me in the press box. And I've basically seen the one replay that United fans are sharing where it does look quite like it might have been a foul.

1:32:12But that's all I've seen. So you all know better than me. Yeah, look, you know the way I apply the rules in my mind for penalties. I think if we get given that in that situation, a scramble in the box, I would have felt it was very, very generous, to be honest. Like I wouldn't be going mad if that had happened in the box. I think it's sort of Cunha backing into Saliba. Saliba standing his ground for the most part. I don't really think it's a foul, so they can stick it up their holes. Okay. Okay. Good. Okay. A couple of quick ones.

1:32:52Yachtimus Prime on the Discord, on the evidence of today. Do you think we're going to be in yellow card suspension trouble this season? uh i might revise my prediction on on kepper getting games to be honest i think he i think david riah could well be on suspension watch don't you yes 100 uh he's been booked in the first game and yeah he doesn't he doesn't mind a bit of time wasting so especially with us having that sort of tough start and some big away games. You know, if we're in a position where we're holding a lead or holding onto a draw or something, it wouldn't surprise me to see him rack up a few bookings.

1:33:36So yeah, Kepa might get the odd game or two. So who is... Anyone else you got your eye on for that? I mean, Timber. I think our left backs, because of the nature of the role that they're playing, both Calafiori and Lewis Skelly got booked yesterday. Timber got booked pretty quickly after coming on as well. I think for time wasting, taking too long over a throw. You know, there are yellow cars I think we can avoid by being a little bit smarter, maybe just a little bit quicker when we're restarting play. But yeah, Raya for sure, he does like to take his time. And the opposition were making it pretty clear, I think, to the referee as well before he got booked.

1:34:19So I think that played a part as well. final one what's quite funny is once you've been booked for it you've sort of got carte blanche it feels like i mean maybe i need to say touch wood or something yeah but like you know kind of feels like they ain't going to give you a second one are they so uh pgmol hold my beer dammit ryan may be the first yeah yeah yeah so we may have just absolutely uh jinxed jinxed okay i've got a quick question oh yeah by the way that i meant to do and hadn't got to because it's a bit of a contrary point of view to what we've heard from most fans. The Partier is over says, am I the only one who doesn't want to see Max Dowman near the team this year?

1:35:02He's 15 and extremely talented, but only 15. And a team with desires of winning the Champions League and Premier League have to have a squad capable of not relying on a 15-year-old to contribute. Well, I think there's a big difference between relying on a 15-year-old to contribute and what a supremely talented 15-year-old might be able to contribute to the team. Those are different things. Nobody's saying... He's there yesterday, Max, not selected. I think that was just part of how they're going to integrate him and give him the experience of what a match day is. I saw him in that video and I was like, oh, that's interesting.

1:35:41But I still didn't expect him to be in the match day squad. He was watching the warm-up in his trainers on the touchline. Yeah, I think it's about showing him what it's about. Like, you know, they got the train to Manchester, did they? Yeah. It's a bit weird. Could they just sort of get the coach? I'm all for it. The eco-choice. Sure, sure, sure. But, yeah, so I think there's a difference. You know, nobody's saying play Max Diamond every game. No one's saying start him in the first game of the season against Manchester United. But if you've got a player of his talent and his ability, and he can bring something to the team, then I think you use him.

1:36:19You know, if you're old enough, or if you're good enough, you're old enough, right? As the old cliche goes. So it's not about being reliant on Max Dowman. I think if our title hopes are contingent on Max Dowman, then yeah, you've got a point. and I think there is a discussion to be had about the balance between his age and his development and all of those things but you don't cut off your nose despite your face if there's a really good player at your football club and he's pushing hard for inclusion in your squad it doesn't really matter to me if he's 16 or 17 or whatever this is a squad as I think we know under Mikel Arteta that is going to be picked on merit he's not just going to do a favour to Max Downman if he doesn't think he's ready or able to bring something to the team.

1:37:06So I just don't think we shut the door, you know, see how it goes, see how he progresses. And if and when he demands inclusion, then so be it. Yeah, I think he will play games and he will be involved as the season goes on. But something I said on YouTube, and what is this podcast for, if not recycling things I've said on YouTube?

1:37:33I think we have to ask about Max sort of yes he is a superb talent but why is it that he is so exciting what is it that he is bringing and offering that maybe we lack in the squad and I do think it's that bit of imagination or one-on-one ability in the final third and I think yes we can look to him to add it But if we are to do something in the remainder of the market, I think most of us would agree that sort of those attributes that Max has demonstrated are kind of what we need more of. So let's see what that holds. Okay, final one. This one comes from Simeon on the Discord. He said, what did you make of the players having a vote on the captaincy?

1:38:20Do we know if that's a process that happens every year? Or was it due to Martin Odegaard's performances last season? And this obviously comes in the wake of the comments made by Tony Adams last week. Mikel Arteta was asked about it. He said, you know, we had a vote. The players are 100%, 100 million percent, whatever it was he said, behind Martin Odegaard. I mean, it did strike me as a little bit odd that there was a vote for the captaincy. I just wonder, was that maybe a way of sort of killing those comments stone dead? Maybe. I mean, Mikel kind of implied that it's something that he did because there'd been a lot of sort of turnover in leadership figures in the squad.

1:39:02So, you know, the sort of previous leadership group included people like Jorginho, you know, but he moved on. And maybe there was a sort of need to just kind of reassess how the squad saw it. But he was pretty emphatic, wasn't he, in his defence of Mark Nodegaard. it was nice of Declan Rice as well to turn in a pretty shoddy performance at Old Trafford as well, just to sort of quieten down that talk for his mate Martin. You wouldn't have seen it, obviously, because you were there, but there was a halftime interview. Oh, yeah. What was that like? It was sort of pointless, really. I did think Odegaard was vaguely interesting, where he talked about Arsenal needing to have more control, the game being a bit too chaotic.

1:39:55but it didn't really add much. You couldn't help but just look at the interview taking place and thinking, leave him alone. And it would be the same if it was any player on any team, to be honest. It would be like, it's halftime. Leave him alone. Let him go into the dressing room. Was it as he came off the pitch? Was it as he goes back on? It was when they were coming off the pitch. So I think it was basically as the players were coming off at halftime, I presume this was all prearranged. And yeah, it was the Patrick Davison guy, I think who does the post-game interviews as well. It was in the tunnel by the looks of it.

1:40:32And it was maybe 60 seconds. But I don't think it really added anything to our experience of the game. You know, what he said was we needed a bit more control. I think that was fine, but I think everybody could see that anyway. And ultimately, I think when players are, you know, focused and the game is intense the last thing they need midway through a game um and this applies to any player for me is a microphone shoved in their face you know but yeah i'm i'm not a fan no all right well there we go you've got a train to catch in a hotel to check out of so we better get this uh done and dusted so look things to do there's room for improvement but no room for improvement when it comes to the points on the board.

1:41:21Three points, a good way to start our season. And we'll look forward, obviously, to Leeds at the weekend. We'll talk about that a little bit later in the week. To all of you guys, thank you so much as always for being here. Hope you enjoyed the show. We'll talk to you later in the week with a bit more. For now, take it easy and we will catch you on the next one. Bye-bye.

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