Arsecast Extra Episode 656 - 31.08.2025

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0:43hello and welcome to another arse cast extra as always with james from gunner blog james good evening to you good evening andrew how are you i'm all right you know this is weird because we normally record, let's say, the day after, or sometimes if we play on a Saturday, it's a Monday when we record. So you've got lots of time to let the emotions wash out of your body, whichever orifice they come out of. But that's not the case this time. This is, you know, pretty soon after the final whistle. So I will say I am obviously frustrated at having lost a game to Liverpool and frustrated at some of the things that maybe I thought we could do better, but I'm not, like, going out of my mind either.

1:30No. I mean, yeah, listen, as soon as the full-time whistle went, I thought, in fact, before that, as soon as Zobber's lie scored that extraordinary goal, I thought, well, you know, Sky have got their narrative, haven't they? Gary Neville's got his narrative that he wanted. The overlap have got... Yeah. That's the same old chat that they have about Arsenal. They can have again. Paul Scholes can still moan about when we drew against Man City two years ago or whatever it was. Is this with his daughter's toe in his mouth or not? I'm not sure, actually. Not sure at that specific moment. But I just thought, oh, God.

2:18We're in for more of this crap, really, aren't we? I guess so. It's not that it's completely without merit or that there's not an element of truth in that analysis, but I just think it's so lazy and reductive. It's one-sided. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It's one-sided. This was a game against the champions at home. I went and had a quick look at the stats, and people can take stats whatever way they want to take the stats. But, you know, Liverpool had 53 % possession. We had 47 % possession. We had 11 shots. They had nine shots. Their XG was 0.45. Ours was 0.55. This was not a game where I think you can level an accusation of caution at just one team.

3:14No. And listen, I'll talk about it. And I think there are things that maybe we could have done and could have done differently and maybe could have done sooner in this game. But at the same time, it's not as if we were on the receiving end of a pummeling by Liverpool. Liverpool, despite whatever you might think about the starting lineup or the team selection, Liverpool didn't cause us very many problems in the first half, a few more problems in the second half. And ultimately, what decided this game was an absolutely brilliant free kick from Dominic Sobisle, who, by the way, you know, we very rarely give flowers to opposition players.

3:58But what a game he had at right back. And that's maybe a criticism of our attackers, implied criticism, or maybe we'll get into that a little bit. But I thought he was really, really good in a position that's not his own. And then he pulled out something that is absolutely brilliant to win the game. And look, nobody wants to hear that it was fine margins when you lose a game, but I think it really was. And maybe we could have done things that could have tipped the margins a bit more in our favor. But when you look at how it played out and what we all saw, I think you saw two teams that had a lot of respect for each other, that were kind of slightly afraid of each other.

4:43And it was decided really late on by something absolutely brilliant. Yeah, I think that's kind of where I am too. And as you say, we are speaking sort of relatively fresh off the final whistle. So perhaps we'll have a different perspective tomorrow. But, you know, I also thought this was a, I didn't think this was a particularly high quality game. I thought there was floppiness from both sides, uncharacteristic at times. You know, I would say Mo Salah's performance, for example, characterised that. There were three or four moments where last season, at least, he would have managed to get a shot away, but his touch wasn't quite good enough.

5:25and I think Riccardo kind of did a pretty decent job on him as well I agree you know we had moments in possession that you know in our own half at times which were a little bit sloppy or certainly moments of I don't know maybe indecision in the final third or not taking the right action or executing it yeah I thought it was a cautious game all round by two sides who probably recognised that at this early stage of the season, a draw was kind of, I don't want to get in trouble with your Nevels and your Skullses, but a draw did kind of suit everybody here. And to be honest, the only thing that stopped it being a draw was that a bloke stepped up and smashed the ball into the top corner from 30 yards.

6:13Yeah. Of course, people will say, you know, it's on you if you don't take advantage of, you know, a moment or a game or a period in the game where maybe you could do something to rectify that. But look, you know, you can. I just don't, I think it is not an unreasonable accusation or suggestion that Mikel Arteta can be a bit cautious. Not at all. But, you know, I saw a game plan which might not have been that exciting, but which for the most part worked away from home against, you know, a very good team against the champions. and, you know, we fell foul of that late moment. First half, I mean, I don't think you'll see many teams.

7:00In fact, I might venture to say any team go to Anfield and have that degree of comfort that Arsenal did in that first 45 minutes. And when you consider that they were doing that without some of their best players, especially once Saliba had gone off the pitch. This is it. Yeah, this is it. You have the context, haven't you? Yeah, I think this is something we have to recognize as well. I am frustrated, of course I'm frustrated, but I think you also have to look at the fact that we've gone to Liverpool without Bakayi Osaka, without Kai Havertz, without Ben White. We lost William Saliba in the warm-up.

7:36We can talk about that in a moment. Who else am I missing here? We're missing somebody else as well. Martin Odegaard. Martin Odegaard did just name us. Of course. Yeah, you know, who was barely fit enough to come on. So, you know, there is, I think, some mitigation, if you like. Not an excuse, but a mitigation for the way that we approach this game. So, why don't we just talk about that from the perspective of the lineup and what we thought we were going to see and what we might have done with Martin Odegaard missing. So there were options for Mikel Arteta. You know, he could have played Ethan Wannery.

8:16He chose Mikel Moreno in the absence of Odegaard. That did not surprise me at all. Like I said on the preview podcast when we were talking about this game on Friday or Saturday morning with Lewis, I was going, if Odegaard's not there, personally, my personal preference would be to play Wannery. Yeah. But I could understand if Mikel Arteta decided to go with Mikel Moreno slightly more, well, slightly more, a lot more experience in midfield at a ground where experience can be really, really useful. You know, we've had some experiences at Anfield in the past. So, you know, where do you stand on that one?

9:00because when the lineup came out, there was, you know, as there always is, a lot of reaction to the lineup and a lot of people saying, well, this is Arteta being too cautious or using language that, you know, I don't particularly want to use on the podcast because I don't agree with it. But, you know, there is a line, isn't there, between caution and sensible or common sense. Yeah, there is. I mean, the thing is, because obviously since the game, you know, I don't know, you put something up on social media, you put a video on YouTube, and I've had a quick scan through the comments. And there are people who are calling on me or calling on pundits generally to kind of call the manager out, right, on what they see as a kind of inherently cautious approach.

9:52And to be clear, it's not like I have no sympathy with that perspective. I definitely think there are elements of truth in that. And we've spoken many times about the need to maybe embrace risk if we are to get over the line. But again, I just come back to the context. I think if this game was happening a few months into the season, we might see a very different starting XI. Like if Ranieri had played more games in that number eight at Premier League level and proven himself, I think every chance he might have started. If Eze wasn't a debutant, a guy who's barely trained with us for a week, then you'd think he would be in that starting 11.

10:39But you can only deal with the circumstances as they come. And so in those circumstances, I understood Mikel Marino playing. Is it what I would have done? Is it what I hope to see? Probably not. But we know this manager. We know him well. And it certainly wasn't a surprise to me. You know, I think I predicted it in midweek. I went on Charles Watts' show on his Patreon. And I think we all said, it was me, him and Simon Collins, we all said, yeah, there's really high chance it's going to be Marino. And it was. And I don't... Martinelli on the left. I mean, did you have any, did you think there was any chance of Eze being given the start?

11:24I thought there was a chance simply because of, you know, what it might suggest when you go to a game at Liverpool and you've just signed this guy, you've pulled him out from under the noses of Spurs and like get him in there and get him going. But I also thought that there was something to the idea that Liverpool have a lot of threat down the right-hand side. Martinelli's best moment today was a piece of defensive intervention in the second half, which, you know, says a lot about the way he performed. But no, I wasn't surprised that it was Martinelli. And I suppose it might be worth pointing out that when we went here last season and went 2-0 down, it was Martinelli and Marino who scored the goals that got us back into that game, you know?

12:13That's true. That's something that was maybe in the manager's mind. I think if it's a week later, Eze probably starts. Yeah. You know? But Martinelli was a rational, logical choice, given the fact that Zoberslai was playing at fullback. You imagine that would leave a lot of space in behind. You'd imagine that would put him in all sorts of one-on-one situations that he might find difficult. Cool. So I think Martinelli was a perfectly sensible choice. And, you know, it did mean that Arsenal had these options off the bench potentially to come on and make a difference, which, you know, in this case, very nearly happened.

12:57Maybe should have happened. So, yeah, the starting line-up wasn't a great surprise. I think it did tell us a little bit about how Arteta viewed the game, how he viewed the circumstances. But I don't think it was, you know, there were still areas in the team where it looked like we could hurt them. You know, we still had our new star striker up top. We still had Madueke and Martinelli, in theory, running behind their fullbacks. So, yeah, obviously the plan goes awry a little bit early on. Well, in the warm-up, as you say, when William Saliba picks up that injury. Yeah, so, yeah, that's what we learned after the game, was he picked up an injury in the warm-up.

13:40It was an ankle problem. What did he say? I just got his press conference up here. I haven't watched it, but he said he twisted his ankle during the warm-up. He said he came in and he believed he could carry on and play. But straight away in the first two actions, I could see he couldn't cope. We had to get him out, unfortunately. But thank God we had Mosquera, which he put in for the first time in the Premier League. It was his debut, not expecting it at Anfield, and I think he was really, really good. Now, you know, nobody's going to want to hear this tonight, but I do think there were a couple of positive things or some positive things about our performances or some individual performances today, and Mosquera was definitely one of them.

14:19Like, we'll save the wider talk about injuries until part two because I've got a couple of questions about that, but, you know, it's another one, isn't it, where whatever your game plan is, whatever strategy you have in place for a game at Anfield, like if you are going to pick that midfield of Zubamendi, Rice, Marino, you know, it is about containment to an extent rather than ambition, right? But part of that containment is based on the fact that you've got William Saliba and Gabriel as your central defenders. And to lose a player as important as William Saliba in, what, three, four minutes into the game, that's a really, really huge blow.

15:00Like, you know, I do think we have to think about these things when we talk about the overall performance and we talk about, you know, what we were able to do. What happens to Liverpool if they lose Virgil van Dijk? You know, after four minutes, I think it's, you know, it has an impact on the way that they, at least the way they feel they can play in a game like this, right? Oh, it's massive for them. Yeah. And I think we just need to really give our praise and flowers to Christian Mascara because I thought he was superb in the circumstances. You know, it's not just Saliba being injured. Ben White's out.

15:36Jakub Kivior is on his way to Porto and we've not got his replacement in yet. So we are a little bit light in that part of the pitch. But a bit like Ethan Ranieri being brought on for Martin Odegaard in the last game. This was a show of faith, a show of confidence in Mascara. And he, to be honest, he's not put a foot wrong since he came into the club. He was really good. Really, really, really calm and assured. And I think that's what we said when we saw him in the sort of preseason games and the bits and pieces that we have seen of him so far. He does not look like a guy who gets flustered easily.

16:12And like this is, you know, a big, big game away from home at Anfield against a really, really good team. some really, really good players, a crowd that has a kind of energy that we all know about. And I think he just kind of, he like went into Zen mode and played his way through that in a really, really impressive way. Yeah, some good centre-halves on that pitch. You know, Gabriel, Van Dijk, Canate and Mascara did not look out of place at all. Not at all. Big credit as well to Gabriel. You know, he's wearing the captain's armband on the day and I'm sure there were probably moments in that game where he had to play the senior partner and help Mascara get into the game and through it.

16:56But between them, I thought they covered for Saliba's absence brilliantly. There's a moment, I think, that probably will spark some discussion, which is about 10 or 11 minutes in the game where Gabriel Martinelli is on the ball in the Liverpool half. We got it forward quite well. And there was a chance, I think, to play a pass to Victor Jokerez, who made a run in behind. But Martinelli held on to the ball, took it into the box, and ultimately lost possession, or I think it went out for a goal kick or whatever it was. And it felt like the most 2025 Gabriele Martinelli moment there could possibly be, right?

17:42It's sort of everything, all the concerns that people have about the way his game has gone. We're evident in that moment. Like we need players who can feed Jokeres, but if you are going to take responsibility and you are going to drive into the box, you need to be a bit more head up. You need to be a bit more aware of what's around you rather than just sort of, you know, look at your feet and look at the ball and then it goes out for a goal kick. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, I think that is going to be a talking point coming out of the game. this was a disappointing moment Jokovic did well he kind of held his run and there was a clear moment I think Gary Neville pointed it out in the analysis where you saw him go and the pass had to go at that moment and it didn't happen and that's really frustrating obviously if you then keep the ball and try and make something for yourself you really do need to justify it and Marcel didn't do that it wasn't the only moment in the first half where I felt like he just came up a bit short against a guy again who's not even playing his primary position who's not even really a fullback and that's to take nothing away from Zoboslai who was the man of the match but I feel that when Martinelli you know goes back over this game he will see there's moments that he should have affected the game more and unfortunately that is part of a bit of a pattern of play as you say He does feel like a guy who's pretty low on confidence at this moment in time, doesn't he?

19:15For sure, for sure. And he looks like a guy, to me, who has just lost that kind of automatic instinct. Looks like a guy who's trying to work out the solution. And that's not really when attackers thrive. It's when they're just playing off the cuff at their very best. And I don't think he has the sort of base level of confidence right now to do that. So, yeah, that was frustrating. And, you know, with Jokeres, he obviously had a couple of goals against Leeds and that's great and very exciting. I do still think there is a way to go in terms of our adaptation to him. because really like there is no point having a player making those runs and playing on the shoulder like that if you're not set up to or inclined to look to find him.

20:15Yeah. So, you know, he had quite a quiet anonymous game really. Sure. But I just don't think, yeah, listen, I think as encouraging as Leeds was, I always thought it would take time and I still think. suggests it's going to take more time. No, I agree with that. I mean, I suppose there were moments in the first half where we did look a bit dangerous, and those came primarily through Nani Madweke down the right-hand side, where I think he showed you, or he showed Martinelli kind of what you need to do in those situations when you get the ball in those areas is the directness and the aggression to take on the fullback, whether you beat him or not.

21:03You know, he had Kerkhez for pace. There's no two ways about that. But it was that determination to get into the box, the determination to try and drive beyond the fullback that Martinelli feels completely inhibited at this moment in time, whereas Matueke, in his favorite position on that right-hand side, was probably our most dangerous player in that first half. There were a couple of moments where, you know, he had a shot blocked. He won a couple of corners. He had a shot saved at the near post by Alisson. Like he wasn't perfect by any means, but there was something to like about the way that he tried to play the game.

21:44Yeah, I thought he was good. I thought he carried a threat. Kirk, as you could see, was kind of always struggling against him. Madureke definitely had the beating of him for speed, for power, for skill at times. And I thought this was an encouraging performance. I think there's been a lot of talk about Madureke on the left. And I think partly because Martinelli's been struggling, especially before Eze signed, there was talk of, could he be the guy on the left? Could he be the guy on the left? We've got to remember that spot in the squad that he filled today, the Saka backup, has been an issue in this squad for quite a long time.

22:22Sure. Like we've seen Martinelli have a stab at doing it. We've seen Leandro Trossard out there at times. Obviously, we saw Raheem Sterling for periods last season. And nothing has really convinced or certainly got close to replacing the sort of level of threat that Saka carries. I'm not trying to tell you that Nani Maduoké is Bukai or Saka, but I think he did a very decent job on that side. I think consequently, you know, as much as we always miss Saka, I don't think we missed him quite as much as we might have done. I think it was a good performance from Maduweka. Yeah, I agree. And hopefully shows that that signing will sort of do its job.

23:02So like first half, I think Arsenal generally were the better team. It was, again, very cautious. It felt like two teams kind of cancelling each other out. You know, there weren't massive, massive chances for either side. the XG at the end of the first half was 0.34 for Arsenal, 0.09 for Liverpool, which I think, you know, as we try and analyze this game through our own frustration, right? When people previewed this game, they talked about Liverpool being defensively suspect, which might be true, you know, in their first couple of games, which I still think is too small a sample size to really be definitive about a team and where it's strong and where it's weak.

23:48But that was the thing people pointed out. But where people had no doubt about Liverpool was the attack and the threat that they posed. So from an Arsenal perspective, if you're going into halftime, nil-nil at Anfield, and Liverpool have basically had nothing apart from maybe the moment when David Raya made a really careless pass, I think, to Zubimendi. Yeah, and Van Dijk won the ball. I don't know why Van Dijk didn't shoot there. I really don't. He tried to pass, which I think Rice intercepted and then Rice maybe made a block from Wurtz, I think, from a shot. That was a moment where Liverpool could have caused us a problem, but it was a problem that we made, you know, ourselves, rather than Liverpool taking us apart.

24:38So if you're Mikel Arteta, you're going in at halftime, and you're saying, okay, maybe, you know, we're erring on the side of caution, for better or worse, but we have basically kept the best attacking team in the Premier League to zero in that first half, you're going to be relatively pleased. Yeah, I think so. Like I say, it was a very composed first-half performance, especially when you consider we'd lost a key player to injury in the early stages, you know, Liverpool would have been licking their lips at that. And yet they offered almost no threat. I mean, we'll come back to that. But, you know, I was not particularly impressed with Liverpool today.

25:14I did not think that this looked, certainly going forward, like the Liverpool of last season. And Arsenal deserve credit for that too, obviously, with a good defensive display. But yeah, I slightly had that nagging feeling, you always do in a game like this, where you're like, I don't think Liverpool, I sort of expected Liverpool's level to be a bit better in the second half. Yes, me too. Particularly at home, you know, you sort of think they will get it together eventually. And I do think that sort of happened, you know, as the second half started. There was a bit more purpose. Maybe they made a couple of tweaks, a couple of adaptations.

25:50I think they were getting around us in their own half a little bit easier and getting on the ball in the midfield. So the game, I wouldn't say it went away from us in the second half, but certainly they came into it a little bit stronger. No, I think that's fair. I think that's fair. So this is where maybe some of the interesting discussion takes place is like, could Arsall have done more to build on that first half? Like, was there scope, let's say, for an earlier change? was Martinelli's performance sufficiently ineffective, let's say, to think, okay, I can bring Eze on at halftime and maybe do something there and change the dynamic a little bit, you know?

26:38Because, you know, I think it's normal that when you go to somewhere like Liverpool or any big team, that if you have been marginally on top in the first half, there's going to be a period in the second half, unless you absolutely play them off the park and have a blinding performance, there is going to be a period in a game, particularly when it's nil-nil, that they have a little bit more control, a little bit more domination. I think that sort of happened from around the hour mark to about 75 minutes. I thought they were more on top than we were at that stage. Yeah, I think that's fair. But then maybe as well we have to look at what...

27:21there were some limitations on the manager in terms of what he could do. You know, it's not like he had, it's not like he started with Saka and he had a Madueke to come on. It's not like he had Kai Havertz available. The changes really to make were, I guess, Odegaard and Eze. He made them on 70 minutes. Yeah. I mean, I'm thinking back to Old Trafford. I seem to recall he made changes in that game a bit earlier, around the hour mark, something like that. Would that have made much difference, though? I'm not sure, to be honest with you, Andrew. I have to be honest and say, you know, if you told me before the game, yeah, you're going to be in it, it's going to be nil-nil, and you're going to be bringing Odegaard Nezer on with 20 minutes to go, I think I would have said, that's a pretty strong position to be in.

28:14Yeah, this is where I would have liked to have seen at least one of those players a bit earlier. And again, the mitigation, of course, or the thing we have to consider is how fit Odegaard was. Yeah, which we don't really know. I think he trained. I think he's probably playing with injections or something like that to get through it. He hadn't done a lot of training. So yeah, maybe 20 minutes was the max for him. Could you have got Eze on earlier? Could you have got Weneri on earlier? Well, there's a question. There is a question. I actually have some questions about Weneri in part two, but I do think that was maybe a player we could have done with.

28:54That if you're not, if Martin Odegaard's not 100 % fit, and I get the seniority thing, and I get you're going to err on the side of experience, but maybe if he's not 100 % fit, You know, is Weneri a player that you could get on in this game ahead of Odegaard? If he's not 100 % fit, is like 75 % fit Odegaard better than 100 % fit Weneri? You know, there's a million dollar question. But, you know, again, it wasn't really like this was a half of football in which we were being hammered by Liverpool. I think they were more in it. There were more moments where they had some shots on goal, but they weren't particularly threatening.

29:40Raya made. Yeah, a couple of sighters, didn't they? Yeah. Lurch had one, and they had the ball in the net. But offside. Lurch shot. Yeah. It was offside. It was offside. Gakpo had a shot that was straight at Raya. Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at my notes, 65 minutes. I think Gakpo had that shot, roughly. And I've written, Liverpool better now. I'd change it. and it was five minutes later those changes were made. Yeah, I would have liked to see them a little bit earlier too but I've got to say that when those players did come on I was thinking like, you know, this is promising. This bodes well. We've got a strong team out there now and I hoped that Odegaard and Eze could add something that we'd been missing.

30:26Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Were you surprised at all that Mikel, because even though it came later than you would have liked, they were still quite positive changes. You know, with Liverpool getting on top, you know, his critics, his detractors would probably tell you that they would expect him to, I don't know, get on a Lewis Skelly or something like that and try and shut it down or close it out. But, you know, I thought... Well, the changes weren't designed to specifically hang on to a nil-nil. That's what I mean. And I think, I mean, this is the irony of ironies. I think I even remember Gary Neville potentially saying like, this is the kind of change, you know, Arsenal fans want him to make.

31:14Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He did it. He did. He did. They weren't defensive changes. They were changes, I think, that, you know, added on paper, certainly added a lot. You know, Martinelli had a poor game. Marino was fine, you know, in the way that he's just fine. So you're looking, well, I'm not being critical. I think he was fine, you know, but he didn't really do a great deal or offer a great deal of attacking threat or creativity. He doesn't have the same creativity as Martin Odegaard. So if you're taking - I think it hurts us as well. Like, I think I said this to you on WhatsApp, but if you think like last year in our first choice 11, And you've got Havertz with Odegaard joining him in the press.

31:58I don't think Mikel Moreno and a not fully fit Victor Jokerez get anywhere close to that. That's completely true. You know, and I think that was allowing, particularly once we got in the second half, Liverpool to sort of circumnavigate us a bit. I mean, there was a lovely moment from Odegaard, by the way, where we worked the ball sort of towards the Liverpool D and he played this beautiful reverse pass. But I don't think Jokeres was expecting it. You know, this is where probably Mikel Arteta will talk about things like relationships and getting to know players and getting to understand your teammates and things like that, which is, you know, completely normal and understandable.

32:42But Jokeres, I think, was sort of caught in his heels a little bit. It was a really good reverse pass from Odegaard. Nice move that. I think it was Eze into Odegaard. Almost for Jokarez. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, there were little moments of promise. And I thought, could one of these guys kind of unlock the game? I suppose it had that feeling of a game where it was maybe always going to be decided by one moment of quality. Well, Arteta said that afterwards. It's either going to be decided by an individual mistake or a piece of brilliance or a magic moment, I think he called it, which I think is true.

33:19It's true. You know, this is where I come back to. Like, I get all the frustration with, you know, losing to Liverpool and could we have done more? Could we have been a bit more ambitious? I completely get it and I feel it. But at the same time, if Arsenal had won the game that way, we will be talking, you know, about, oh, what a, you know, great character, you know, people, the detractors, as you say, might say, well, it was a smash and grab, smash and grab from Arsenal to go to Anfield and they just sort of get a free kick and win it late on, but that's kind of what Liverpool did. And nobody's really criticising Liverpool for their performance because ultimately they've come away with three points, which is, I guess, the only thing that matters in the grand scheme of things, but it makes for...

34:05It's results-based analysis. Yeah, exactly. You have to look at it in that way. I mean, what did you think of that moment, the free kick we gave away? what was, you know, I've looked back at it. I actually can't remember, Andrew, how it happened. Zubamendi. I'll tell you what happened was we had the ball and we'd sort of worked the ball and I think it was Calafiore tried to play a first-time pass into Eze on the left-hand side, but it was cut out and Liverpool played the ball backwards to Van Dijk and Curtis Jones got between Zubamendi and Rice and Van Dijk played like a 40-yard pass, boom, straight through, like right through the middle of our midfield.

34:53You know, Van Dijk, I'm not sure there's another player in the Premier League who passes the ball with the pace on it that he does. Yeah, yeah. And it works. I really noticed that today. It's important. He smacks that ball through the past. Sorry, I'm just turning the volume down on this. And, yeah, you know, Jones got turned and Zubomendy was booked, wasn't he? I mean, it was one of those where you're thinking, well, that's probably not the worst foul in the world to give away because we looked a bit vulnerable. But then obviously what happens? Yeah, I mean, he played the odds, Zubomendy, there, because he and Rice were too far apart or they weren't aware of where Curtis Jones was.

35:31That pass straight through the middle shouldn't really happen. He makes the foul and he thinks, well, listen, it's 30 yards out. you know, I'll make that fall. Because you said something interesting to me afterwards about when the free kit was awarded. I was like, I wish it was closer. I wish it was closer to the edge of the box because I think those are, they're easier to defend than one which is like there, 30 yards. I mean, it requires something brilliant for it to go in, but if you can produce something brilliant for it, you know, from that distance, I think you have a much better chance of scoring a goal than a free kick, which is six, seven, eight yards closer to the goal.

36:18Like if it's on the edge of the D, I'd be less worried than I would be as to where that free kick was taken from. It still takes something pretty special. That's what I mean. That's what I mean about Zubimendi in that moment was playing the odds. He was going, well, maybe someone can produce something extraordinary here, but like I've got to make that foul to stop him running towards our goal at this stage of the game, you know? Yeah, I think that's the kind of cynicism you need in a winning team. I mean, there was a great one in the first half from Gabriel, wasn't there on Salah, where he thought he might do in the channel here.

36:53So he pretty much just wrenched him by the head and gave away the free kick. But that's the funny. And I think Zubimendi knew exactly what he was doing. Yeah, you're rolling the dice. You're saying, okay, you can have this shot 36, 32 yards out. I forget what it was. Yeah. Good luck to you. And what Zobosla produced was out of this world, really. Yeah. I've had a few texts, you know, from people about David Raya, the positioning of David Raya. Zobosla said in his interview that he'd watched Raya a lot on other free kicks and he knew his movements. He knew he makes that little jump to be back behind the wall but then he shoots on that side.

37:37So it's not like, yeah, listen, I always look at the keeper. I always think, oh, could he be a bit further off his line? And we all know Joanne Garcia catches it in his mouth. And Yaki Kenya sitting on the bench going, God, I fucking told you. But I do think this is a case where you just have to say that is something really quite special. I agree. You know, we saw Declan Rice produce two incredible free kicks against Real Madrid last season where, you know, even for a goalkeeper who's nine foot six or whatever Donnarumma is, he couldn't get near them. You know, I think Raya... Courtois, not Donnarumma.

38:24Oh, Courtois, sorry. Yes, of course, sorry. Thank you for the correction. I mean, Ryan, listen, I'm watching it again and again. Me too. Me too. Like, yeah, if he's a foot and a half taller, you know, if we have the world's first like seven foot three goalkeeper. If he's Mr. Stretch from the X-Men. If Stretch Armstrong's in goal. If Dal Seam from Street Fighter's in goal. Yes, he may keep it out, but. I think that's a fucking... I'm much more inclined, you know, regrettably, I'm much more inclined to say that is just an extraordinary goal. I think it's close to a 10 out of 10 free kick, regardless of who is in goal, regardless of where he's positioned.

39:15It's in off the post. Like sometimes you look at a free kick and it's kind of a little bit towards the middle of the goal and you're thinking, well, I suppose he was unsighted by the wall. I mean, that is right in the corner of the net. Yeah. Yeah. Tough one. No arguments from me. And the thing is, like, the stupid thing about football is, like, in that moment, this turns from a drab Liverpool display, in which they sort of didn't really apply concerted pressure for any period against Arsenal at home, to the stuff of champions. Yes. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the world we live in, and the analysis that we get.

39:54But that's also football. That is, you know, we have experienced and lived through eras, James, where there were drab games or games where we weren't doing anything and somebody produced something extraordinary for us to go and win a game and help us win things. And we have yearned before for people who are good at kicking the ball for this precise reason.

40:20and there is something to be said you know when Declan Rice scored those free kicks against Madrid I think I spoke then about players who have this knack or capability or almost sort of supernatural facility to sort of seize the moment and Zoberslai in this game was absolutely on it I mean that cross field pass he played It was like a 60-yard pass from right back. Sometimes a top player is just, you know, at the peak of their powers, at the top of their game, and they can make magical stuff happen. And unfortunately for us, and fortunately for Liverpool, that was Dominic's opposite line. He was very, very good.

41:08I think, you know, we had attacking players who maybe should have made him work harder in a position that's not his own. but I thought he did very well. He's a very, very, very good player, very smart player as well. So the question was then, like, could we react? Could we respond? There was a moment, I think, when Ezzet got into the box and he went down and I was like, kick it into the goal, please, before anything. Could he have got the shot away? I spoke about that. Someone sent me a quote, And I have to say, I haven't seen this interview, but the quote, you have to put the ball in the back of the net.

41:50We were much better than last year when we drew the game. Today we have three, four, five situations inside the box, 1v1. Eze is completely through just to finish that action. You have to put the ball in the net if you want to win. Welcome to the Mikel penitentiary, Richard. I mean I was like willing him to just sort of shoot as soon as he got into the box there yeah I don't know why he was hanging on to it but you know again maybe it's I don't know who knows I think it's you know we've always said he's an Arsenal man through and through it's kind of Arsenal heritage to hold on to the ball and overcomplicate it rather than getting the shot I'm at Arsenal instead of twatting it into the back of the net from 20 yards I am now going to try and walk it in at every opportunity.

42:38Listen, that's Arsenal DNA. Yeah, that was a moment for sure.

42:48But yeah, there weren't really clear-cut chances, were there? Let's be honest. I mean, there weren't a ton of chances in the game full stop. No, I mean, it's really, really low XG, as we said. Second half XG, 0.21 for Arsenal, 0.36 for Liverpool. you know again the total is 0.55 0.45 so you know between the two sides you know one expected goal over the course of 90 minutes and two teams who you would probably expect to create a great deal more than that like i said i think we cancelled each other out another day it ends nil nil we come away go into the interlull and say well a point at anfield's pretty decent you know point of the champions would take that back home every day would like to win but like can't argue with a point and we can go into the interlull and lick our wounds a little bit and, you know, hope that some players get fit again.

43:39But of course, when something like that happens, it just sort of obviously changes how you feel about things and changes how people are going to talk about it. But like, I genuinely don't think this was exclusively terrible from Arsenal or anything like that. I think if you're going to say it was terrible, it was probably terrible for both sides or below par for both sides. And Liverpool had a moment which was incredible and won them the game. And we didn't have that moment. And that's really all there was in this game. As much as you want to discuss the way we could have potentially changed things or maybe shifted the dynamic a little bit.

44:21But yeah, just disappointing. I touched on this earlier, but really I did come out of it. I'm not going to say I was sort of buoyed by it or buoyed, as Elliot would say. But I think I didn't see anything that made me think Arsenal can't win the league this year. I really do think that Liverpool, I know it's slightly ominous, they've won their first three games, but they don't look to me to be the side they were last season. There was no gulf between the two teams today. Absolutely not. I mean, this was as even a game, I think, as you'll find. And it was decided by a very, very fine margin. So when I look at the weekend in context, I think, you know, do they look markedly better than us?

45:09No. I look at Man City beaten for, you know, twice in two weeks by Brighton. And I think, and also I look at our return from the first three games. I look at six points from three fixtures that include a trip to Old Trafford and a trip to Anfield. I don't really feel or identify with any sense of despondency. I think we're in decent knit. We're in decent shape. It didn't go our way. If we'd had our best team out there, it might have been different. If the luck had fallen slightly differently, it might have been different. But yeah, I don't see any signs to panic, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, my counter to that or slight, I don't even disagree with you there, but I do have something that is making me slightly panic and making me worry a little bit.

46:07When you say there's something that you see or you don't see anything that could stop Arsenal being champions, I see one thing in particular. But I'm going to save that for part two because I'm going to ask a question of you when we kick off part two. That is the concern that I have. Not necessarily the performance today. I think it happens at big teams and, you know, tight games can go one way or they can go the other way. But there is one sort of big issue that I'm slightly worried about. So why don't we take a break here? We'll come back with your questions and more in part two right after this.

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48:19It's good. Anyway, I sort of teased the first question here about... You did deliciously so, Andrew. I'm on the edge of my seat here. Okay. So the one thing that I think might stop Arsenal winning the title this season... Is voodoo. Well, yes, voodoo. I don't know who we've displeased, but we've definitely displeased somebody because they're dropping like flies, it's fair to say. And we had some questions. ATXBergKampLover6969420 says, do we need to be concerned about the number of injuries already piling up? Yes. But Yags says, why are we losing so many players to injury so early this season?

49:05Kai Havertz, Martin Odegaard, Bakayosaka, William Saliba, Christian Norgard, Ben White, so many and so continuously. This can't be just bad luck, can it? are we doing something wrong in this space? And my question is, I mean, this can't be sustainable. You can't, as deep as the squad that we've got, you can't keep losing players at the rate we're losing players and hope to be title challengers. I mean, imagine if I told you, Andrew, three games into the season, we would have lost Saliba, Odegaard, Saka and Havertz. I mean, it is quite extraordinary. And Ben White. And Ben White and Julian Timber looked to be struggling.

49:46He did towards the end. Yeah. I don't know. What happened there with him and Gakpo where Gakpo went to help him up and Timber just didn't get up. And then he said, hey, why aren't you helping me up? And then he went to help him up again and he just didn't get up. I was going, we're trying to get a goal here, dude. Yeah. Come on. To be honest, I mean, I don't think he was really in any fit state to carry on. He ended up just sort of staying up at number nine, didn't he? didn't even get back after that point. Are we doing anything wrong? I mean, the boring answer is to say it's really difficult to know from the outside, isn't it?

50:23You have to think that coming off the season we had last season, you have to think that Arsenal, and knowing Mikel Arteta, I absolutely believe this, will have left no stone unturned in their attempt attempt to prevent injuries happening. And yet, here we are. You know, we can speculate on, is the training preparation right? But without being on the inside, it's almost impossible to know. Is it all Gabriel Ainz's fault? That's what I'd like to know. Well, listen, Andrew, I mean, I just keep coming back to voodoo I mean it is it's a big problem I'm sorry you know I know we don't know and we can't say and you've all these are the training pitches too hard you know that one was doing the rounds for years and years and years is it just a bit of bad luck a bad coincidence maybe I mean I don't think there's any doubt you know but speaking from a journalistic perspective and based on the conversations I've had obviously again I'm not in the room I'm not on the training pitch.

51:39I don't think there's any doubt that Mikel Arteta works these players hard. Like, that is a theme of his coaching, his preparation. They train hard. And I think this pre-season even was pretty, especially given the conditions, quite gruelling at times. But presumably, and I'm not a professional, Presumably, there is strategy and planning and thinking that underpins all of that. And it must be designed to avoid what we're seeing happen here. I mean, the Odegaard one sort of, you know, that happens. He was fouled in a game. He fell awkwardly. You get hurt. There's nothing about your preparation or there's nothing about your training that can prevent that, right?

52:33or a bad tackle or whatever it was. Like Saliba today just sprained his ankle. Probably just, you know, it happens. You go over on your ankle. How many times have you done it? Has anybody listening to this, how many times have you done it when you were playing football, you know, whatever level you played football, just, oh, what the fuck? Why did my ankle do that? I don't think it, you know, that's necessarily a consequence of overtraining or too much training or grueling or whatever. Where I think you might ask questions are the muscular injuries, you know, whether they're preventable or that they require a bit more investigation or a bit more introspection.

53:15But I don't know. The reality is, though, it's really, really worrying because we have a lot of players out injured. We may have more today, you know, after Saliba. We'll see what happens with Timber. Maybe this is a well-timed interlouge for once, no? I think it probably is. Maybe not in terms of sort of the analysis we might have to stomach and the slightly gloomy mood we might have to put up with over the next couple of weeks. But in terms of getting some players back, I think it would be really important. You know, but Guy Saka won't be too far away. Once that period's over, might Nodegaard, you'd think, would be back.

53:55Ben White might have a chance. Christian Norgard, you know, could come back into contention, you'd like to think. So there's a few. I forgot about him, by the way, in the list of absentees. So, yeah, it is a really big concern. It derailed our season last season. We've built a squad that's kind of, I think, designed to enable us to kind of withstand injuries, but that doesn't mean we want them, and it doesn't mean they're welcome. Yeah, of course. So, yeah, it's, yeah, I should have seen that coming when you said there was one thing worrying you. The injuries are a big concern, a big concern. Okay, your question?

54:43Here's a question because I meant to touch on this in our sort of breakdown of the game. But Nick Craw on Blue Sky said, why did Declan Rice switch from in-swinger to out-swinger corners? And to be fair, I think he means more Arsenal. I don't expect Dick Declan Rice to take in swingers with his left foot from the right hand side Declan Rice is very good but he's no Santi Cazorla come on yeah but what did you I mean our corners on the day I mean in a game where the margins are so tight that is an area where time after time we have profited and unfortunately it didn't happen for us at all did it really no I think it had eight corners in the game and didn't generate a chance no I think they said on Skype that we took four outswinging corners in the first half against Liverpool.

55:31We took four outswinging corners in the whole of last season. So the only thing I can think of is that the only other left-footed player in the squad, I mean, Marino you want in there because he's a threat. Calafuri you want in there because he's a threat. And I'm guessing that Madweke's set-piece delivery is not considered sufficient or good enough. or consistent enough? I don't know. I mean, we've seen Declan Rice deliver, if not some such outswing corners, but certainly free kicks from out on that side that have been quite dangerous, you know, sweeping balls across the box. But yeah, it didn't happen.

56:15Liverpool, to their credit, dealt with it pretty well. And, you know, we were beaten ourselves by a dead ball. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, though, I do think if you're a professional footballer, taking a corner should be within your remit, you know? Right. If you're Nani Matueke and you're a winger. Mm-hmm. Spend the week practicing fucking corners. If you know Martin Odegaard, I was like, no, genuinely though, you know, I don't, listen, Declan Rice's delivery from corners. And we said this on the last podcast, I said this to you that the consistency of it was, was Beckham-esque, right?

56:52And that's a big compliment because it's not easy to deliver corners consistently. It isn't because not every player can do it. But I do think if you're in that situation and you're thinking, well, we don't have Odegaard. We don't have Bakayosaka to take a corner. We want to take an in-swinging corner. Could we not like do a week of work on the training ground with Madweke and see can he do it? I mean, I don't think that's the reason why we lost today. But it is a bit of a change because I do feel like a lot of the routines are based around the ball in swinging rather than out swinging, right?

57:30So. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe negated us or blunted us a little bit from set pieces. Yeah, we were definitely disrupted in that. And, you know, in other days that's been a difference maker for us and it didn't work for us on this one. Okay. Here's one or a couple people asked this question. I think it's a good question. Boston folks say Saka in their car. They say, evening, gents. How pissed would you be if you were Ethan Warneri and as good as he is, 15-year-old Max Downing is getting on ahead of you when we need a goal. And an ode to the captain said, what are your thoughts on the Downing substitution today?

58:11It felt a bit narrative to me and had an adverse effect as Marueke was our only real threat to that point while Downman showed that he is only 15 and needs time to build up to this type of game. And I have to say, I was a bit... I looked at that and went, oh, I don't think that's a great idea.

58:37We don't see what they're seeing in training. but yeah it was uh it raised eyebrows on my face let's put it like that yeah me too me too um and i would imagine if you are ethan ranieri or by the way if you're leandro trossard you know yes well to be fair the the mitigation i would give there is that trossard was listed as somebody who probably wouldn't even be in the squad by Mikel Arteta in his pregame press conference, where he said we're probably going to be without Leandro Trossard. So I'm guessing there was a fitness issue there from Trossard's perspective, but I take your point on that. But Ethan Warneri scored nine goals for Arsenal from that very position last season, and we needed a goal.

59:31And we, listen, we all love the Max Downman story and the romance of it and everything. But, like, is this not – people will say, oh, well, Arteta's too cautious. Is this not going too far the other way? Should he not have been a bit more cautious and brought on the 18-year-old and not the 15-year-old? Yeah, we need to – As much as that might be seen as cautious, you know? We need to decide what we're saying here. I mean, do you think that they've just decided that Ethan can't play on the right? Like, I did hear, it would have been a sort of March, April time last year, that Arsenal felt that, you know, his performances on the right-hand side hadn't sort of maintained at the level that they started, that maybe some of his shortcomings in wide areas were being addressed by opposition.

1:00:29yeah some of his limitations in that role were being exposed a little bit now I have to say I'm just a layman, but I never really saw that for me. I thought he was doing pretty well. And the numbers suggest he was doing pretty well. But maybe they've just really committed to this thing of like, he is a central player. I don't think that's a sufficient explanation, if I'm honest with you. I'm just trying to figure it out. I mean, for me, if you're looking for somebody who might produce, what did Arsenal need in the last seven minutes of normal time and the seven minutes of added time? They needed somebody to do something a little bit special.

1:01:15And when Aries just got the ability to hit the ball in a way that not everybody in this squad can hit the ball. Yeah. And I was quite shocked, actually, to see Max Downing come on. Like, he did great against Leeds. He won a penalty. I think that's kind of what Arteta decided on. He was thinking, well, you know, he might be able to run at Kerkhez. You know, the first couple of moments he had on the ball, he got kind of bodied off it. This is a slightly different level than playing Leeds, with all due respect to them. So I was actually a little bit shocked. And I think if I were Ethan Wynary on the coach home or the bus home or the train home or the plane home, whatever way they're getting home, trains, planes and automobiles, I would not be happy this evening.

1:02:03Because I think, you know, we had a better chance of scoring a goal with Wynary than we did with Max Dowman. And that's not to be critical of Max Dowman, just to be clear. I just think there is a big difference between 15 and 18. There's a difference between a player who hasn't scored a goal at senior level and a guy who nearly got into double figures in goals for Arsenal last season. I think that was a misstep from Mikel Arteta. I don't think he does many things by mistake, though. Like. Oh, no, I don't think it was. Like, I think he made the wrong decision. I think maybe it's equally possible that he felt, I don't know.

1:02:54We don't know. This is total speculation, but maybe he wanted to give Ethan that kick up the arse. We don't know. I find it hard to understand. I really do find that hard to understand. When I saw what Max Downman named on the bench, I was like, well, that makes sense. We're traveling with a young squad. Andre Harriman Anoush was involved in a Premier League game for the first time as well. 17-year-old. You know, we're making up the numbers a bit. Max won the penalty against Leeds and he did extraordinarily well for what he is. I do think that some of the analysis of his performance was a bit overblown.

1:03:31And that's not to take anything away from him. Yeah, this is a curious one. Maybe by the end of the season we'll be like, you know, Mikel knew. Look how brilliant Max is and the impact he's able to make. And it was absolutely the right thing to do. Yeah. But on the face of it, yeah, it is a strange one. And I think you're right. It's odd, isn't it? Because Ethan Nair is a very young man himself. And yet in this scenario, he's very much the senior pro. So, yeah, it's a curious one. And I think we'll have more conversations like this as the season goes on. You know, I think back to last week and Gabor Martinelli didn't even get off the subs bench.

1:04:25And we were having conversations about him and how he might feel. I think back to United and I think Jakub Kivy always left out the matchday squad. and we had a conversation about that. I think the size of squad Arsenal have is going to lend itself to people being omitted, people not getting off the bench. And that's going to be a kind of accompaniment to the season. Yeah. And I suppose only when it's happening consistently or over a longer period, can we really draw any conclusions from it? Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. And of course, you know, by the end of October, our squad size will be three.

1:05:09Well, exactly. Well, listen, we did touch on this part one, but on the subject of injuries, Docker said, evening both with seven or eight players missing due to an injury. How surprised are you that none of the injured players are called Riccardo Calafiori? And Henry Moulin said, evening guys, in an attempt to stay positive after the result, how impressed were you with Calafiori? He has started the season in fine form. He seems physically super fit. I mean, everybody touch wood, cross fingers, do whatever you can. His one-on-one defending also seems to have come a long way in a short space of time.

1:05:45Salah was quiet today. I think Calafiore was fucking excellent today at Anfield. And it was one of those games where beforehand I was wondering, well, will he play Myles Lewis-Gelly? Calafuri you know has been caught out a few times one on one Mo Salah of course is a brilliant brilliant player I thought Calafuri was brilliant today from start to finish you know who had the most shots for Arsenal today I mean I'm guessing it's going to be Ricardo Calafuri yeah him and Nani Marweke right with three each wow but I thought Calafuri's defending this was the best defensive game I've seen Calafuri have.

1:06:31What the fuck? Sorry, I just knocked a can of Coke off my desk. Not full? Not full. Empty. It's been sitting there for a couple of days. I should put it in the recycling. I thought this was the best defensive game that he has had since he joined Arsenal. You know, I thought the anticipation, the reading of the game, how front-footed he was, how aggressive he was. There was one great tackle on Salah on halfway where Salah was trying to back in and do what he does and, you know, protect the ball and shield the ball. And Calafiore just sort of got around him and got a foot around him and got to the ball.

1:07:08And Salah was not happy about it. There was a couple of moments, I think, where he intercepted the ball really well in our box, made a couple of clearances in our box where when things were, you know, potentially about to break for Liverpool, there he was. So I have to say this was, you know, on a day where we're not happy, of course. I thought Calafiore was a real, real positive. I thought it was very good as well. I think he's had a really strong start to the season. I have to be honest and say, you know, I am sort of just desperately hoping that he doesn't pick up an injury. You know, I feel a bit traumatized by last season where every time he seemed to sort of get on a roll, he'd pull up with something.

1:07:52And yeah, I almost feel bad speaking it potentially into existence because I really hope he can avoid it. I think he's had such a stop-start beginning to his Arsenal career. And this does feel like a time where he's got a bit of momentum and he's making a big contribution. So I hope he can carry on. And I assume he's going to go away with Italy. Yeah. And I have to be honest, that worries me. Well, of course, of course, because, you know, he has this injury record. I mean, I don't doubt the talent that he has, but I was really pleased today to see him defend in the way that he did, you know, because that's what people will perceive.

1:08:39People go, he's brilliant. He's chaotic. He gets into positions high up the pitch that you don't expect him to get into. but like ultimately his job as a left back is to defend. And he did that superbly today, I think. I played 90 minutes as well. Yeah. Which is a big thing for him. You know, he doesn't always do that. So yeah, I thought he was one of the real positives for sure. What about this one? Toby W dash W dot BSky dot social says, my brother is adamant that with the free kick so far out, it's completely unnecessary to have a wall. The Sabaslay can't hit it as fast when it's a dead ball in comparison to it moving from that sort of range.

1:09:17Is my brother on to something, or is he just at the second stage of grief? What's the second stage of grief? Is that weeping? What are the stages of grief? Weeping, crying, gnashing? The second stage of grief is removing the defensive wall. Anyway, he says, to clarify, no wall means Raya sees it better and can save it easily.

1:09:40I'm watching it again Andrew I mean I've heard that argument mounted before that at a certain distance you abandon the wall and you say to your keeper save this I just think the keeper still got to stand somewhere like he's moving back towards the middle of the goal when the ball is struck

1:10:08I really think that if we're spending our time micro-analyzing this goal trying to figure out how it's preventable I really think we're barking up the wrong tree I mean would it not be fair to say that if you know after however many years the game of football has been played not one team ever doesn't put a wall, that there's probably a reason for that. Yeah, maybe. I mean, there's enough innovation in the game that you'd think. Like we have guys lying down behind the wall now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Carpet, what do you call them? Not carpet, fucking draft excluders. Draft excluders. Yeah. Yeah. I honestly think the wall and David Raya is not the reason we lost this game.

1:11:02And again, in an effort to sort of not over-index the events of one day, if David Raya starts regularly getting beat with free kicks, do you know what I mean? Then let's have this conversation. Like he's some kind of Petr Cech or something. Yeah, but I really do think this was just a pretty special strike. Fair enough. Yeah, sorry to be boring. That's okay. What about this? We had quite a lot of Jokeres questions. Big Red Arsenal said, badly morning, chaps. Three games is still a very small sample size. But what's your gut feeling about how the Jokeres signing will turn out? And has it changed from when we first bought him?

1:11:53While I don't think he'll be a complete flop, I'll admit I'm slightly underwhelmed so far.

1:12:06I wish we had Kai Havertz. And I don't mean that as like... I didn't know what you were going to say. Yeah, me too, me too, man, me too. I think there is like an adaptation for Jokeres. you know I think there are technical limitations to his game I think there are there are things that he does very well and other things that he's not going to do particularly well you know today did he get any service not really like there was the moment we talked about in the first half where Martinelli should have played him in but didn't there was a pass from Marino in the first half in the box where might have ended up with a shot for Madueke or Timber actually I think it might Might have been outside the box.

1:12:50He set up timber for a shot, which was well blocked. And then there was like maybe a pass in the second half. He's not a guy who's going to just make something happen all on his own, really, is he? You know? Well, he kind of did against Leeds. He sort of did against Leeds, I know. But we also played a pass over the top of the defense and gave him space to run into, which is fine. I just feel... I mean, he's not Carnu, is he? Do you know what I mean? Like, you can't give him the ball with three men around him and expect him to sort of wriggle out of it. He's certainly not that player. He's not that player.

1:13:27I think his adaptation would be better, easier, and more productive if we also had Kai Havertz. And now I think there's a big, big onus on Jokarez to produce and to sort of help lift the team on days where, you know, it's not really working for us. I do wonder there is something in my mind about like the Eze-Jokerez relationship. Like is Eze-Jokerez a bit Mateta? Yeah, yeah. You know? But then I don't know if Eze got a lot of assists for Mateta at all. I don't know. Well, I think it's natural, isn't it? To be like, you know, we've bought this creative player. Maybe he can help us unlock this center forward.

1:14:17Yeah, I mean, we played an uncreative midfield, but we did not play our most creative midfield today behind Victor Jokeres. And I think it's also reasonable to point out that in whatever people might have talked about Liverpool before the game, defensively not great, etc., etc., like Kanate and Van Dijk is a brilliant central defensive partnership. It really is. Granato was good today. He was very good. He's not a great start to the season, but he was very good. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So I, of course, it's extremely early, as the question said. And I do think this kind of adaptation was inevitable.

1:15:06And I think Jokka Resnarsson will probably have to meet in the middle. We've also reported on The Athletic that, and to be fair, like it's a logical thing, but that Mikel Arteta kind of planned on having Kai Havertz most likely starting these big games in the early part of the season. Yes. And can you imagine, by the way, the luxury of that? You know, if we were starting Havertz and using a player we know very well and playing to his strengths, and then with 20 minutes to go, 25 minutes even, bringing on Pinti Jokerez to run into channels against tired defences when games become stretched. I mean, wow, what a luxury that would be instead of a situation where we've got a Jokeres that I don't personally believe is fully fit yet having to do 90 minutes because what we've got on the bench is 17-year-old Andre Herriman Anouss who's not played a Premier League game.

1:16:03So I think there's a lot of mitigation and a lot of things to consider. I hadn't seen a great deal of Jokeres when he signed. And of course, the goal record and the goal compilations are all very, very appealing and exciting. There definitely are, to my eye at this stage, rough edges to his game. Like, he's never going to be, I think, the smoothest player. He is a bit of a bulldozer type.

1:16:38and unfortunately when you are a bulldozer type I guess you need to be at your absolute physical peak in order to maximise that and I'm just not sure he's there yet and I think the international break again comes at quite a good time for him he'll probably go away to Sweden but again it'll help him get some more minutes build himself up I think there's a way to go and I think that it's a process, isn't it? And we're still in the other stage of it. And I think he'll continue to score goals, by the way, while this is going on. Like, I'm not looking at him and thinking, oh, he's going to go five games without a goal or 10 games without a goal.

1:17:19I think he'll score goals, as he showed against Leeds. I just think in terms of sort of the fit and the best out of him,

1:17:31I think evidently we're not there yet. No, I think that's fair. Okay, a couple of quick ones to finish because we've got to get this out. It's getting late. We've got to get it to the people. Got to get it to the people. Backsack and crack says, if a bid came in for Martinelli tonight, would you accept it? And Mohamed H says, does that performance today mean time is up for Martinelli as a first-team starter for Arsenal? You have to feel that when Saka is fit, either Madueke or Eze now play on the left. Yeah. We spoke last week about this, didn't we? As like a potential wildcard. I think Saka being injured, even if we expect him back relatively soon, and Havertz being injured as well, I think it makes it a bit more difficult to let him go.

1:18:21I think it would have to be a really good offer for it to happen right now. But do I think the writing is on the wall generally for Martinelli? Like, do I think he's getting another contract at Arsenal? No. Right. That's what I think. What do you think? I think you're spot on. We can't, unless the money is absolutely sensational, with Saka injured and with Havertz injured, we need Martinelli. Whether he plays that much, we still need him. Look at what Chelsea did this weekend with Nicholas Jackson. You know, they were going to loan him out. And then Liam Dillap got injured and they said, no, we don't want you, by the way.

1:19:07You haven't played with us in preseason. We've told you. Todd Bowley rang Nicholas Jackson up and he said, I just want to tell you you're a cunt. And, you know, they've treated him like that all summer. But they're saying, no, you got to stay. And that is the reality of the injury issues that we have up front, you know. so I think I spoke about this with Lewis by the way a little bit on the um preview podcast that maybe in this period you know with the way that we're trying to play or hoping that we're going to try and play with Jokeres there's a sort of similarity between Jokeres and Martinelli as a nine yeah you know so maybe it makes a little bit more sense to to give him a few minutes there and And look, we've got a lot of games coming up and I wouldn't sell him, but I'm with you.

1:19:59I don't think, I would be surprised, let's say, if Gabriel Martinelli was an Arsenal player this time next year. And the thing is, Gabriel Martinelli, and he's been very vocal about this, he absolutely loves playing for Arsenal. He absolutely loves it. He loves Arsenal. It is his home. And he's never really had a great deal of interest, I think, in going elsewhere. but I think it's at a point for him where I would certainly be starting to have conversations about what is the right club for me to take the next step in my career because actually I'm not even sure and this is not to sort of absolve Gabriel Martinelli of any blame but I'm not really sure that a Mikel Arteta Arsenal team is really the team to get the very best out of Gabriel Martinelli I think there are other teams maybe not as good teams but who stylistically would suit him so much more.

1:20:56And I think that might be the sort of move he has to make. You might have to think, what's going to really showcase me? What's going to enable me to find my confidence again? But do I think that's going to happen tomorrow? No. No. No. No. Well, let's go just before we finish because it is transfer deadline day tomorrow. Yeah. What are we expecting from Arsenal? There's obviously the potential arrival of Piero Incapier from Bayer Leverkusen. The story is he's travelled to London but is waiting permission to do a medical and all that kind of stuff. But what are we expecting from Arsenal on deadline day?

1:21:43Beyond Incapier, it's going to be players going out, right? yeah i mean yakov kivio is obviously the one that's most directly linked to that um those deals have basically been done in parallel um so it's kind of one in one out and then beyond that uh who are we thinking i mean it's all the usual suspects isn't it fabio vieras your reese nelson i got a blue sky message earlier by the way from let me just give this guy his From Rhys Nelson. Rhysdefer Nelson. It came from, well, Dullard 101. Okay. Sounds like a tier one source. Carry on. He said, I just shook hands with Fabio Vieira at Luton Airport.

1:22:28He was sat with all the plebs. And I said, did you ask where he's off to? He said, I didn't. He was on the phone. Stuttgart, I guess. Well, Stuttgart are flush with cash. They are. they've sold a striker to Newcastle yes very tall man another tall man in that Newcastle team just in time for us at St. James' yeah I mean that would be good it's gone a bit cold that one to be honest with you I think they couldn't get close on price Arsenal and Stuttgart but maybe that would change now that they're rich Rhys Nelson no idea I think he's got some interest from Europe from what I hear from the continent.

1:23:11I think a couple of clubs in Spain and maybe Germany. Will that come to fruition in a move? You have to hope so, really, for Ries. Just going through the squad, thinking if there's anyone else. Karl Hayne went out. Zinchenko. Zinchenko, Marseille, have seen sports. Emerson from West Ham as their left-back. So I would imagine that ends their interest in Zinchenko. I think he might end up staying. I think he feels his options will be better in a year's time as a free transfer. I'm not sure he's had a great deal of options in this window. Maybe a late loan or something if somebody comes in. Maybe a late loan, but is there some merit to keeping him if we keep getting injuries at the rate that we're getting them?

1:24:00I don't know. Rhys Nelson and Alexander Zinchenko fire Arsenal to the Premier League title. the unfancyed duo were the unlikely heroes for michael arteta etc their fate is to stay for the season and be left on the bench while arteta brings on like 11 year olds

1:24:23yeah we're bringing on fucking you know i don't know who some double barrel name Santa Cazolla Jr. coming on. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I hope they get some out. I think it would really help them out in terms of cash flow and in terms of FFP and all those things. But I think generally we reflect on it as an incoming. It's an incredibly positive window. I mean, the business has been unprecedented and extraordinary. really the spending i mean going and deciding to do in capier as well for like double the money will be it down the road that you get for kivior i have to admit i'm still slightly surprised by that it is a bit of a weird one isn't it because it's not a listen that maybe the calafuri fitness situation is one that that reads or um looms large over this and you would understand if they had some issues but you know there's miles lou skelly to think about and where's he going to play and I don't know that's an interesting one to watch and I think the Incapier one is maybe with a bit of a dovetail with Eberze maybe in mind he's more of a natural overlapper as I think Lewis pointed out last week so yeah I mean another big buy another good player but frankly the way we're losing them to injury we need them.

1:25:56Yes, that is for sure. All right, listen, we better leave it there. It's nearly 10 to 10 at night and I've got to get the rest of this out. Go on, a quick one, quick last one from me to you then. Okay. I know it's more for the 30, but ahead of deadline day, are Liverpool going to get exact yes or no? Oh, fuck, I don't know. I hope not. I mean, it makes, it makes their ownership look so weak. Like the biggest fucking losers that ever existed in football, if they sell Alexander Izak now, they probably will. I will say yes, because that's kind of how this shit goes down. But I would love nothing more than for Newcastle to hold on to him, for Liverpool not to get him, and for it just to be a terrible situation for Newcastle to have to deal with, you know?

1:26:46Because I do think all the shit about like, oh, well, Newcastle didn't keep their promises to Isaac and he's entitled to go on strike and all that kind of stuff. Like, I know I've got no time for Newcastle. Fuck that. But like, Isaac's behaved like a right twat this summer. Yeah, I do sort of wish they would dig in, but I do think the direction of travel last few days, I sort of get the feeling it's going to happen now. Yeah. Well, at least we've played at Anfield without him there. And then hopefully we go to St. James's and he's not there either. That's one upside. Yes, that's true. That's true.

1:27:24And if he is there, he's going to be miserable. He's going to be really unhappy. Miserable of sin, yeah. Yeah, he's going to be really... They'll be booing him out of the building. Exactly. Until he scores a goal and then they'll be like, yeah, I forgive you because... Kisses the badge. Goals are currency. Lucas Paquette, that one was mad. What was that? There was talk of him not playing today for West Ham and he was going to Villa and they scored and kissed the badge and said, I'm staying. He doesn't want to go to Villa. See what happened to Villa this evening? Yeah, they got tonked. They got absolutely spanked by Crystal Palace.

1:27:553-0. It's the end for Unai. They've scored a goal this season, Villa. Have they not? I think I'm right in saying. Mark Gehi scored. And what could potentially be his last appearance for Crystal Palace? Fucking hell. If Liverpool get Gehi and Izak. I know. That's a decent window as well. Did you see the interview with Unai Emery? I've got it bookmarked, Andrew. I genuinely like might even have been at halfway point of this podcast. Someone said to me and I thought I will thoroughly enjoy that later on. Can I give the people a taste? Please. They said, where is where is Emi Martinez today? And he said, Marco Bizat.

1:28:45Do you feel like Emi Martinez is going to be here when the window closes? Marco Bizat. And he just kept answering the questions. Reminds me of last season. Do you remember that one where he just went, Europe. Europe. Europe. Europe bizot. Anyway, it's all fun and games at Villa Park. We'll see what happens. Let's get out to the people. We'll speak to you all in the interlou. In the interlou. Yeah, it's a whole interlou. Yeah. So we'll be back, whatever, next Monday, I guess, or Sunday, who knows. We'll work it out in the meantime. Thank you guys for being here. A bit earlier than normal, but hope you appreciate the effort.

1:29:31The post game, this is not really our bag. You know, we need a bit more time to think about things. To process. We've done our best. We've done our best for you. Hope you enjoyed the show as always. Thanks as ever for being here. And we will catch you on the next one. Bye-bye.

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