Arsecast Extra Episode 669 - 01.12.2025

0:12Hello and welcome to another Arsecast Extra as always with James from Good on Blog James good morning to you Good morning, Andrew. How are you? I'm okay. It's just about morning. We're recording just this side of midday. A little later than normal, but we'll get it out there for everybody after what was a... I think quite an interesting game at Stamford Bridge yesterday. It was, yeah. It was probably more of an interesting game than a good game. Oh, it definitely was not a good game. A game with not much football, I think Mick Arteta called it. But, yeah, a lot to discuss from it. And not, I have to say, like, not to sort of, you know, shortcut to the ending straight away, not an outcome I'm particularly disheartened by.

1:05You know, yeah. I think a draw away to a team who, going into the weekend, were your closest challenger. It's not a bad result. No, I agree with that. But what I would, you know, playing devil's advocate a bit, obviously. Yeah. And, you know, I'll sort of admit that when the final whistle blew at 1-1, I was like, fuck, thank God that's over. I didn't really want to experience any more of it. I thought it was a disgusting, horrible game of football that I didn't really enjoy in any way at all. Even with, you know, Chelsea getting a man sent off. But that's the thing, I guess, that people will say, okay yeah on paper in a difficult week you go away from home you take a point Chelsea were second most of the week they were overtaken by Man City we get a draw away from home against a big team like Chelsea in the London Derby it's not a bad point and it might well turn out to be a very very good point come the end of the season but I guess some people will say the fact that Arsenal played all of the second half and sort of a chunk of the first half against 10 men it might feel like an opportunity missed in that sense so i understand it from that point of view but i will say i'm sort of with you that when the whistle blew it was like right we did not play well today we didn't do enough to win the game and let's just sort of park this after what was a very difficult challenging uh week you know with a north london derby then a big game against bayern munich then your way against Chelsea.

2:41You know, I think all of the context plays a part in how I felt, certainly, at the end of the whistle. Opportunity, at the end of the game, rather. Opportunity missed? Yes, I think so. But also, given that we didn't play very well, and given that we did look leggy and tired, and the game was the way it was for various reasons, which I'm sure we'll get into, you know, a point I can live with it, even if I think, you know, maybe we should be winning that game given how long Chelsea were playing with 10 men. Ordinarily, I mean. Yeah, no arguments for me on any of that. I just think we have to look at this game in the context of the week.

3:30I really think that's vital to recognise that it comes at the end of a really tough run of games, or let's say a really important run of games. Spurs didn't feel too tough on the day, but it's a derby, right? So it's a big fixture. Then you've got Bayern Munich in the Champions League. We took that very seriously. Got a great win, which really strengthens our belief in Europe and our credentials to win that competition. And then it's Chelsea away, who, as I say, on Friday were our closest challengers in the league. So a huge week, I think seven points from nine across two different competitions is actually a really good return.

4:13I think I would have been pretty happy with that beforehand. I think maybe the slight regret people have is that my sense is most people in the fan base, they would have been really happy with that seven from nine. They might have just swapped where that draw happens, maybe for midweek and Bayern Munich. Yeah, but you can't pick and choose, unfortunately. And I think as well, you know, there's a lot of physical energy went into those games, the Tottenham game and the Bayern game, but a lot of emotional energy as well. And I think going into this game, you know, the place to start, obviously, is the team that we put out.

4:48And we didn't have Leandro Trossard, who has been in outstanding form of late. So he was missing from the left-hand side. The decision there was to bring in Gabriel Martinelli. and I suppose the most striking thing about our team was the absence of William Saliba who picked up a knock in training. He was there. He was with the squad. He traveled with the team but couldn't play. They didn't want to risk anything and we'll wait and see what happens with him. Hopefully it's nothing too serious but that meant that we had to field a very inexperienced central defensive partnership in Christian Mosquera and Piero Incapier, which, you know, I don't think is ideal, going away from home.

5:34Untested, really, rather than inexperienced. In Incapier's case, plenty of experience. I meant sort of inexperienced in terms of playing together and playing together in the Premier League for Arsenal. I didn't mean sort of, you know. Absolutely. One game they played, I think they played together. It was the Carabao Cup, wasn't it? Against Brighton, that's right. Yeah. And played well that night, but this is a very, very different test. Yes. Test. And Arsenal are a very different beast, I think, without Gabriel and Saliba. You know, you can't really overplay what a big, important foundation that's been in this team.

6:07No, I think, you know, we have the quality and we've brought in the quality to be able to deal without one of them pretty well. You know, as we saw this week in the derby against Bayern Munich, there was no Gabriel, but Saliba was there and it was in Kepi in the derby and it was Mosquera against Bayern Munich. and you can cope. I still think you miss something, but you can cope. But when both of them are missing, I think it really does have an impact on how we play and maybe how the opposition play against us. Can you remember what the first thing that happened in the game was? Was it to do with David Raya?

6:45No. Oh, go on, tell me. Because my first note is that, right, I had a couple of risky moments on the ball. Right. I don't remember before that. Kick-off. We have the kick-off. Declan Rice plays the ball back. And João Pedro just runs into Christian Mosquera and sort of puts his two hands in front of his chest and sort of pushes him over straight away. Right? I do. I do remember that. Right. So it's similar to, if you remember Erling Haaland doing it a couple of times against Gabriel and Saliba. But I think that I kind of get. These guys are on the same level kind of thing. Haaland, he's got to put himself about against two of the best central defenders in the world.

7:33So he shows, listen, I'm a 6 '5 Viking machine. You're going to have to put up with me. In this instance, I can't help but think that when the team sheet came out, that Chelsea decided to sort of amp up what I think was already going to be an aggressive approach to this game. I think they deliberately set out to make life difficult for Arsenal physically, whether they stayed the right side of the line or not. And on a couple of occasions, they didn't. And on one particular occasion, they definitely didn't. So we'll talk about that. But I'm almost certain that if William Saliba is starting instead of Christian Mosquera, let's say, João Pedro does not target William Saliba in the same way.

8:19I think that's probably right. You know? So I think it had, sorry, what I mean to say basically is that that absence had an impact on us. And I think in Capier and Mosquera did pretty well for the most part. But I also think it sort of emboldened Chelsea a little bit to really ramp up what was going to be a physical approach anyway. Yeah, I think the biggest swing from it may have been psychological for both teams. Yes, agree. I think there's every chance Chelsea would have gone quite physical anyway. You know, the way they approached the game, I would describe it as Newcastle-esque. in the way that they, I think, sought to make it incredibly physical.

9:11But yes, I think the absence of Arsenal's bouncers at the back would have given them encouragement in that regard. Now, I don't think, and I think they discovered, that Mosquera and Incappier are not particularly a soft touch. In fact, I think Incappier looks like the sort of player who absolutely relishes that sort of thing. And he showed that when he tackled Pedronetto in the box and just screamed into his face. Loved that. I really liked that bit, actually. That was my beyond our goal, I guess. That was probably my favourite bit of the game. Yeah. It does feel a bit like Gabriel Aince may have sort of sired him at some point in South America.

9:55Do you know what I mean? Yes. It's his illegitimate child. And there's definitely a through line there in terms of their attitudes on the pitch. But yeah, obviously Chelsea came out of the blocks incredibly physically. The other thing I was struck by just sort of scanning through the stats now was the aerial dual numbers, which were massively in Chelsea's favour. Arsenal won 12, Chelsea won 29. Again, I don't know where those happened. Maybe they all happened in the Chelsea penalty area when they were defending in the second half. But it feels like with Gabriel Saliba on the pitch, I don't know, that ratio might have been a bit more balanced.

10:36Yeah, maybe so. Maybe so. So look, you know, that aggressive approach to the game was evident a couple of minutes later as well when Kukurea went through the back of Bukayo Saka and got away without being booked. And then there was like a sort of set two in midfield where I think maybe Rice maybe, maybe fouls Kaiseido. They get a free kick. Caicedo then pushes Mikel Moreno over with two hands right in front of the referee. And then a minute later, because the game within four or five minutes is threatening to sort of bubble over, Zubimendi gets a yellow card for a foul on Rhys James, which I think, you know, you could argue one way or the other.

11:21Is it a yellow? Is it not? I think it's hard for me to comprehend how that foul is a yellow card, but the Cucurea one is not. The Cucurea one, for example, felt a bit like, well, it's early in the game. I'll give him a warning. And the referee did have a word with Rhys James, who is the assistant referee on the day, you might have noticed. he had a word with him about that tackle with Kukureya and it didn't take long for Kukureya to get in the book but I think you know it's it's it's frustrating isn't it as a fan where you see something that's way more egregious get away with without a booking and Zubimendi by the letter of the law is it a booking yes but it's about the the way that a referee tries to control the temperature of a game and this one I think was hot from the very start and once he started giving out yellow cards then he sort of had to keep doing it albeit most of those yellow cards went to Arsenal players.

12:26I feel for Zubmendi because I think that's two consecutive away games that's happened in. I seem to remember at Sunderland as well he found himself booked and it was more a kind of cumulative booking to try and manage the game than necessarily a particularly egregious foul he'd committed. Maybe there is some onus on him as well to kind of sense the temperature and, you know, the mood of the referee and maybe tread a bit more carefully in those moments. But it does feel a bit unlucky. I guess the referee is hoping, well, if I book Zivimendi, I've sort of laid down the law and hopefully I bring this game a bit more under control, which I don't think is a completely, you know, logic-free approach, but it didn't work.

13:20It's safe to say. No, no, it didn't. There were other yellow cards. Mosquera picked up a yellow card, I think, in the 13th or 14th minute. Another one of those were sort of breaking up a Chelsea break. In their half, Kukurea got booked a couple of minutes before that for another foul on Bakayo Saka. So, you know, it was tetchy. It was stop-start. It was physical. And, you know, I think in sort of the opening 25, 30 minutes, despite the fact we had maybe one or two shots, did we? I think Chelsea were probably the better team from an attacking perspective. We could not find any kind of rhythm. And it might be a combination of the physical approach, not being able to build any rhythm in the game, having a bit of an off day as well, which is not beyond the realms of possibility.

14:13After a couple of really hard games, it can take you a while to get into a game like this. But Chelsea had better moments. You know, there was a really important tackle from Declan Rice in our box. There was a chance for Estevão, if you remember, where I was like, oh, fuck, this is a goal. and he blasted it over the bar and then Cappier got caught on the edge of the box and we got back well enough to defend and snuff out that chance. So I think this was a game that Arsenal really struggled to get hold of in any way until maybe the sending off. How did you view that opening sort of half hour, 35 minutes before the red card?

14:56You know, is there a, I don't know, a tactical explanation or do you think it's just a combination of all of those things that home team momentum you know they played against 10 men in midweek we played you know 11 man Bayern Munich they played Burnley last weekend we played Tottenham you know is does that sort of add up to maybe Chelsea having a bit more zip in their legs than us uh I think that could that could be a factor for sure I mean they had a big game against Barcelona but obviously that 24 hours might make a difference. I think the physical approach, as ugly as it was, kind of worked for them.

15:35And actually, you know, I mentioned that it sort of reminded me of Newcastle and Newcastle are one of the teams in the Premier League who've had more success against us playing in that sort of fashion. We saw elements of that physicality from Sunderland too. So I do wonder if that's something we're going to see more and more of. I know we have the physicality to stand up to it i know we have the uh presence and the maturity to live with it but um we're so good that i do think people are looking for ways they can tip the advantage in their favor and the the dark arts which used to be you know our proviso um may be one of those ways i think chelsea were the better side until the sending off i think they had those two in particular moments with Esteval blasting over and Jao Pedro going through after Incapier sort of got his feet in a bit of a muddle, where I really, really feared they would score.

16:35And we didn't quite get going in terms of our attacking play. So, yeah, I think the red card was maybe the moment of the game, completely transformed the fixture, to be honest. And I suppose it showed the danger of the approach Chelsea were taking. You know, they very clearly set out to be physical to disrupt us. But if you get that wrong, you know, and the officials are doing their job properly, you're going to be in big trouble. I was doing the live blog yesterday and about 10 minutes in, I was sort of thinking of just posting an update. like, Kaisedo is either going to be man of the match or he's going to get a red card.

17:26And that was the way I was looking at this. And I think I was distracted. Maybe something happened in the game and I updated that and forgot to post that. It would have been quite prescient based on what happened. Well, I can tell you this. As you know, my brother's a Chelsea fan. He was in the home crowd yesterday and we were sort of texting on the group chat and he sent me a text message, I think after Caicedo, you know, put in a big crunching challenge, just saying, Caicedo is a dream in these games. And within about eight minutes, he was off the pitch. He was a nightmare. I mean, you could see that he was completely wound up for this one.

18:11And listen, you can channel that kind of passion in a really positive way, right? We've seen that in some of our games this season where you have a player, you know, Eze in the derby, Declan Rice against Bayern Munich, where you can sense that they are so up for this particular fixture, but they channel that in a really positive way. But Caicedo was sort of being given free reign by the referee to do whatever he wanted. I mentioned that moment where he pushed Marino over. About 25 minutes in, Eze picked up the ball in our half And Caicedo came in and just sort of barged into him. Again, two hands just absolutely pushed him over and got away with it.

18:51And there was no sanction from the referee in that moment. So I think he probably felt like he could do what he wanted. Yeah. And that then transpired in the challenge on Mikel Moreno, which is absolutely 100 % a red card. And let's just be clear before we talk about this incident. This is a player who has previous in that sense, not sort of a collection of random bad tackles, but it is the same bad tackle all the time. It's that one where he goes slightly high, slightly late, studs up, not like halfway up the leg, but, you know, enough above the ankle for it to be really, really dangerous. And there have been some examples of that in the not-too-distant past.

19:48There was, I'm trying to remember who they were. I put links to them in the blog today. Anthony Gordon was one. There was one on Ryan Gravenberch as well. And I think there was one on a Tottenham player, which I found a link to as well. It is the same bad tackle every time. It's dangerous and it's dirty. And the previous three times, he's got away with it. this time he did not Michel Marino spoke on Sky Sports after he sort of said he was in no doubt that it would be a red card and he sort of half joked he said I've got very mobile ankles but I think he is lucky that he at the very last second sort of saw it coming and was able to just get his legs off the ground because that is the kind of tackle that can really really badly hurt a player yeah it was And it actually looked pretty horrible, even in real time, right?

20:42It was like a coming together. You couldn't quite see what the contact was on my TV pictures anyway. And then as soon as you saw the replay, I mean, we'd been joking, hadn't we, on text message about who's going to be sent off in this game because it felt absolutely inevitable. You were like, there's your answer. There's your answer. Yeah. Yeah, I wonder as well with Caicedo this game, obviously Chelsea were hyped up for it. I think a win would have been absolutely massive for them. A sort of big moment in their development as a team. I wonder as well, like how aware Caicedo is of the kind of narrative around him and Declan Rice that I've seen in a few places.

21:28You know, I mean, undoubtedly they are two of the best central midfielders in the league. And I think we all feel like we've got the best one. but I wonder if he was sort of particularly hyped up because it was there. But then as you say, he's done it before. So maybe I'm making excuses and I don't need to be. Yeah, well, look, people were maybe critical of the referee in this instance. My sort of understanding is that, you know, while the VAR check is going on as part of the process or protocol, Anthony Taylor gives him a yellow card and then the VAR is obviously reviewing and telling him to go over.

22:02He then rescinds the yellow card and gives him a red card, which he absolutely 100 % deserved. I thought as well, by the way, the way he writhed around on the ground afterwards himself was embarrassing. It was just pathetic because what he was trying to do was make it look like he somehow had been injured and Marino had caught him. Yeah, it was not a 50-50. It was a nasty, dangerous challenge on Marino that could have really, really hurt him. And it's pathetic to see a sort of self-styled hard man. I mean, I guess it goes with the territory. These hard guys are also babies, fucking cowards, really.

22:44And that's what he did, was sort of writhe around and pretend to be injured. And then when the referee came over to give him the red card, he's like, what? Me? What? I mean, what the fuck? Like, at least if you're going to be a fucking cunt, own it. You know? Own it. you you drives me mad but you know he deserves to get sent off he deserves a three-game ban and as good as he is as a footballer and he is a really good footballer that is an aspect of his game that gets completely and utterly uh underplayed in the media and i think it's about time people woke up to what a nasty player he is capable of being on top of all the great things he can do in the game.

23:31He's got that. You know, there's a fine balance between being sort of hard and nasty and dangerous. You know, we all know the players that you can think of. But, you know, as I said, it's not a coincidence that all the tackles I've mentioned are exactly the same. And that's like his calling card. And this time he got found out and he absolutely deserves a red and more scrutiny, I hope, going forward from referees. Maybe it's a moment where he realizes is he can't behave like that on the football pitch because it's dangerous to opposition players. If he cares about that one way or the other, I don't know.

24:07But maybe he cares about not getting sent off. So, you know, the fact that he was pulled up this time might save somebody from a bad injury down the line. Well, it's cost his team very dear because, you know, as I said, I thought they were on top at that point in the game. And everyone's talking about the permutations for the title race from the result of the fixture. but he's also going to miss three matches, as you point out. And that could be big for Chelsea. I mean, he's probably one of their very best players and he's going to miss three and a half matches as a consequence of that challenge.

24:41So I'm quite right too. It was a bad tackle and it was clear as sending off. As you'll see, I have to be honest to say, there was a tiny part of me that thought, is he going to get away with this? You know, because so much had gone in his favour on the day. Listen, regardless of the outcome yesterday, I don't think Chelsea are ready to win the league. And one of the reasons I believe that is a lack of discipline. And actually, you know, as Arsenal fans, we know plenty about that and the problems it can cause you. Not that we're necessarily accustomed to seeing our players go in with the sort of tackle Caicedo did yesterday.

25:20But, you know, Chelsea have now got, I think, three red cards this season, three or four. that's basically where we were this time 12 months ago albeit with very different offences but I think that that lack of cool that lack of composure that lack of smarts cost them yesterday and will continue to cost them well it did cost them obviously a man and it was a moment I think that you were looking for Arsall to really respond and take the game on and take advantage of the 10 men. We'll talk about that in a moment. I mean, the game, by the time it got to halftime, Mosquera, Incappier and Riccardo Calafuri were on yellow cards.

26:08Incappier, you know, I think it's a jump for the ball. It is one of those where he catches the player and it's a sore one. I don't agree with the contention from the Chelsea side of things that he should have been sent off for that. I think it's, you know, it's one of those, it's an occupational hazard. If you're a defender, you know, you're going to go and arms are going to be up as people are jumping. Sometimes you get caught. And it was unfortunate for Chalabah because it obviously looked like a really sore one. But I don't think it was, certainly wasn't malicious in any way. It was, it was, it was more accidental than anything.

26:44No, it wasn't one of those where he sort of clocks him and swings an elbow, you know. Yeah. it was more of more of one where he has arms so yeah I didn't you know Rhys James said he felt Gepi should have been sent off and I think Enzo Maresca backed it up in the press conference I didn't see it that way there was an interesting stat at half time from up to Joe did you see Arsenal no during the first 45 minutes or first half because obviously it went slightly longer only had two touches in Chelsea's penalty box And in every other Premier League game, bar one, they've had at least 10 double digits.

27:26So it tells you sort of how relatively little threat or how inconsistent a threat we were offering. The other game, by the way, in the league where we had, it was just five touches in the box. Liverpool? Crystal Palace. Crystal Palace. Who, you know, have actually given us one of our Sterner tests. So that does ring kind of true. Yes. Okay, well, look, it was halftime, and I was concerned about the amount of players on yellows, but it's a difficult situation for Mikel Arteta to try and manage because three of those were in the back four. So he decided to make a change, which was at left back. Ricardo Calafiore, I thought otherwise was quite good, and got a very, like I was screaming at my TV, don't foul, don't foul.

28:12Super sloppy looking. Yeah. He did. I think it was him who recovered very well when Hincapier had that slip on the edge of the box. So I think his all-round game was pretty good. Just that moment. Yeah. Yes. So Mikel, in his wisdom, brought on the human yellow card magnet, Mars Lewis Skelly. Honestly, I swear. I mean, I understood the change, but the discussion at halftime must have been, listen, Whatever you do, we're bringing you on for a guy who's been booked. And Arteta made it quite clear that because of the threat they had down the right-hand side with Pedro Neto and Malagusto and, you know, the tricky players that Calafiore was going to come up against, that was part of why he took Calafiore off.

28:58And within like 10 minutes, Lewis Skelly gets booked in a very Lewis Skelly way. If the Calafiore one was sloppy, then the Lewis Skelly one is one we've seen a few too many times from him. But of course, before that, Chelsea had scored. This is, I think, an interesting goal to analyze because Arteta said afterwards, he said it on Sky and he said it in his press conference about Chelsea targeting players who are on yellow cards. you know I assume to try and get them sent off to even up the numbers right yeah what did Chelsea do from kickoff they play it back to Robert Sanchez Sanchez pumps it long towards Incapier and João Pedro falls on the ground and pretends like Incapier did something to him and he's still rolling around holding his face and they're all going mad and they're like look you know that was very very deliberate as well really like proper cynical gamesmanship from chelsea there target a guy who's on a yellow make the referee aware that the guy who's on a yellow might have done something i don't even think this is a free kick i do not see what in capier has done wrong in this situation and the referee has bought a piece of play acting from xiao pedro and from there that's where they get the goal.

30:16Yeah, they go and get the corner. David Ryan makes quite a good intervention, I thought, off that free kicker. They got in behind, didn't they, at the back post. Who was it? It was Jao Pedro. It was Jao Pedro at the back post, yeah. Our friend Jao Pedro. And he makes save at the near post there, turns it away. They get the corner. Thoughts on this goal? No, I mean, listen, I'm no Niko Jova, right? So I'm maybe not the man to break it down. I am sort of tempted to say great flat delivery, brilliant header. We've seen, we know ourselves when you have those elements and they combine, it's very difficult, can be very difficult to stop.

31:07What do we say if Arsenal score that goal? yeah I think we're talking about the quality aren't we yeah I think so I mean it is delivering I've watched it a couple of times and I David Reyes sort of gets under the ball he sort of you know it kind of ends up slightly in no man's land but I don't think he can get there because it's such a it's a corner that drops right at the near post it's almost at that that side of the six yard box I just think scoring from that position is incredibly difficult. And whether by luck or great skill, he kind of finds the only point of the net he can. I suppose, though, if you're looking at it from an Arsenal perspective, you're probably saying, where is the man at the near post who's winning that header?

31:59Because that is typically somewhere where we're very strong. And if you remember, when we have someone like Kai Havertz in the team or Victor Jokeres in the team, that's their job, is to be that front post guy. Yeah. And maybe, you know, I'm just looking at it again, it's actually Declan Rice who's there. He ends closest to him for sure. Chalabah is, he runs off timber. Yeah, I mean, I, like every goal, you can look at it and say, we could do better there. We could defend that better. And, you know, there's a kind of impossible to quantify thing of if Gabriel and Saliba are there, what difference does that make in terms of their control and dominance of the penalty area?

32:45Even in the set piece before, you know, does that change the way that plays out? Kind of butterfly effect stuff. But, yeah, I mean, set piece goal for a team with 10 men, it was a dream for them. Especially the timing as well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and a bit of a disaster for us. I have to say, actually, like, you know, although we're talking about descending off as maybe the pivotal moment in the game, I thought Chelsea made a better fist of playing with 10 than many do and were pretty well organised and maintained a bit of threat as well. Well, I was going to ask you about that, yeah. So it looked like a tall task at that point in time.

33:29Yeah, I mean, a tall task, albeit you still have that man advantage and you have players on the bench who, on paper, can come on and add something to your team from an attacking perspective. That's true. We didn't talk about that at the top, but, you know, Gabriel Jesus on the substitutes bench, Victor Jokic is back on the substitutes bench, so Martin Odegaard. So, yeah, there were plenty of options. So he brought on Odegaard and Matueke for Martinelli and Zubimendi, and I understood those changes. Martinelli was pretty anonymous. Zubimendi was on a yellow, so you reduced the threat of another player potentially picking up a second yellow card.

34:04You drop Rice a bit deeper, and you put Martin Odegaard on. Within a couple of minutes, we get the goal. It's a really good piece of wing play from Bakayo Saka. I also think there's a good piece of defending from Piero Incapier. Chelsea tried to get down the right-hand side. He read it very well. We recycled the ball from there. It goes out to Bakayo Saka, turns Kukurea, puts in a great cross, and Marino is there. an hour gone basically and it's 1-1. You then have half an hour plus any injury time to go on and get the other goal or goals that you need to go and win the game. So I did want to try and unpack those last 30 minutes because it felt, it didn't feel like we were playing 10 versus 11.

34:51It really didn't. It really didn't. I wanted to try and explore maybe why that was. again, you know, you're trying to come up with all the answers or find the ingredients as to why this was or why this game played out the way it did. You know, I think we welcome those players back off the bench. But I also think what we were doing was putting in players who are to varying degrees anyway, rusty because they've spent time out. Jokeres has been out for a month. Matawake basically out for, you know, two months, two and a half months, whatever it was. Odegaard hasn't played since the start of October, really.

35:34So you have Jokeres again. I think I mentioned him. You have players who are obviously capable of giving you something and changing a performance, but maybe not quite at the match fitness level that makes it easy for them to do that, even against 10 men. And I don't want to do it because they're obviously terrible, but do you have to give Chelsea some credit for the way they continue to try and play in this game? Or do we ask questions about ourselves and how is it possible that Chelsea, for example, that moment you mentioned when Incapie tackles Pedro Neto, which is not long after the goal and he sort of does the shouting in his face thing.

36:19why is Pedro Neto running through one-on-one with Piero and Capier in that situation? How are they capable of providing the overloads? I remember thinking maybe Miles could have got back or if that was a different incident, I'm not 100 % sure. No, that was a later incident where maybe we're not getting players back into the right positions quickly enough defensively. So it's a difficult one, isn't it? It is. I mean, at the risk of being overly simplistic, I do think that last half hour we're playing without any of the triangle of Gabriel Saliba and Zubimendi on the pitch. And I think that is something which brings real stability to the team.

37:05But yeah, it was surprising, I think, how much threat they were able to carry on the break. And in terms of going forward, I just don't think we worked Chelsea as hard as we ought to have done. I saw an interesting tweet from Tim Stillman, actually, who posited that he thought the change, the 70th minute change where Jokeres came on for Eze wasn't particularly helpful. he felt that we should have persisted more with the kind of all the midfielders option and there might have been a bit more fluidity and variety in that. And I think that's potentially true and I think something we did really well against Sunderland was kind of use those positional rotations and quick interplay on the edge of the box.

38:02equally if Jokeres gets to that rebound before Sanchez or indeed Jurien Timber doesn't take the ball off his head right in the dying moments of established time I guess the narrative would be highly different. Of course, of course and look it's one of those where I think collectively Arsenal weren't at their best individually I think there were players who weren't close to their best either you know Eberach Ezeza from And last Sunday's hero found it difficult to make a mark on this game. Gabriel Martinelli did not make a mark on this game. Nani Marueke, when he came on, really didn't have any influence at all.

38:42And, you know, this would have been a fixture that he was well up for, right? Because of the previous with Chelsea and the way that he was received by the Chelsea fans. So you would have thought he would be absolutely determined to make a mark in this game. But he couldn't do that either. Jokeres, I get it. You're putting on a striker. You need a goal. So you put on a striker. You're a big summer signing. He touched the ball twice when he came on. That's it in 20 minutes, 20 plus minutes. And, you know, it's that balance of, well, as a striker, he needs some service. But if we're playing against 10 men, are we better served with more technical players on the pitch?

39:22Players who are more comfortable in possession, who might be able to work those openings in the final third. whereas, you know, Jokeres is a bit more of a, you know, cracking up with a sledgehammer guy, you know? Yeah, he is. And I think if we were a few weeks on, we might have seen Gabor Jesus, to be honest with you. I think he's the sort of player who in those type spaces could be really important. But obviously he's barely played since returning from that long, long layoff. And listen, we have great depth, so much depth that I don't really think we're in a position to make excuses too often about absentees.

40:00I think we did miss Leandro Trossard. I think his craft and his kind of ingenuity in the final third is something that we lacked. And particularly when you look at that left-hand side, you've got players in Martinelli and Madueke who are coming back from injury, neither of whom I think performed particularly well in this game. Trossard's been one of our most in four players. So naturally, without him, yeah, I think we felt it. Yeah, for sure. For sure. We missed, you know, what he can bring. And he's come up clutch a couple of times, hasn't he, in the last few weeks. So, yeah, he was a miss and Saliba was a miss and Gabriel was a miss.

40:39And I think all of those factors play into, you know, what was a disappointing day, you know, in isolation, I think a disappointing day because we played against 10 men. But going back to what we were talking about at the start, I think this was sort of like the last mile of a marathon or something. You know, it felt like physically we were jaded, mentally we were jaded. You know, it's not for the lack of trying. I didn't see any lack of effort or anything like that. but some days you just can't raise the performance to the level that it was against Bayern Munich or the way that it was against Tottenham.

41:24And of course it would be brilliant to do that because Chelsea, they're just so horrible as a football club and as a group of players, I think I enjoyed this on the Discord. We had a question here which I was going to read out. Let me see if I can find it. yeah it comes from gronning gunner who says if i still have a no dickheads rule of chelsea taking the opposite approach with an only dickheads rule you know yeah i mean that was cemented wasn't it when you see garnacho stripping off and you're like wow um there's something about this that just fits um yeah i listen i think it was a bit of a disappointment to not fully overcome the 10 men and take three points that I think would have dealt a huge blow to Chelsea.

42:18You know, I think it would have made it nine between us. And that's some distance at this early stage of the season. But I think when you're not at your best, when things aren't going in your way and the fluidity isn't quite there, don't lose, right? Yeah. Don't lose. And Arsenal have shown already this season on the opening day. They set a bit of a template. They went to Old Trafford, didn't play particularly well and won there. That was massive and gave Arsenal exactly the platform they needed to start their season. I think here was another game where they weren't at their best. You know, we didn't really deliver the performance we might have hoped to, but we didn't suffer a great deal for it.

43:02We got a point. We kept the gap for Chelsea as it was, maintained a healthy lead at the top of the Premier League table. And I think that could come to be really, really important. The last thing we needed or wanted was Chelsea and Man City receiving the encouragement of substantially closing that gap. No. I think another thing maybe to point out is that despite the fact we did get all the yellows, and you look at how early Zubomendi was booked, how early Mosquera was booked, Miles Lewis-Galli had to deal with the yellow for most of the second half when he was supposed to come on with a clean slate.

43:39in Cappier booked at the end of the first half. I think we managed that pretty well, you know, because the last thing we needed was to give the referee any excuse to even things up. Because I think when you are away from home and when the crowd is baying the way they are, you know, that's an easy thing to happen, right? Only takes a second. And all of a sudden it's 10 versus 10 and the dynamic changes again. I want to just, before we go into the questions part, I do want to talk about Declan Rice a little bit because I think he was really eye-catching against Bayern Munich. What I thought was really interesting about his performance yesterday was how he sort of took some of the stress off the central defensive partnership.

44:28You know, they haven't played together very much. There is a big onus on them or a big spotlight on them because you're coming in, you're replacing Gabriel and Saliba, and everyone's going, well, what are these two guys about? Are they capable of it? Are they up for it physically, technically, all the rest? And I think what Rice really cleverly did for periods of this game was to ensure that they were not stress tested in any real way by sort of dropping between them, always giving them an option on the ball when they had it in possession. and I thought it was, maybe came at the expense of what he can bring to the team in the attacking third or in the opposition half at least because of the way he carries the ball and drives the ball.

45:12But I think there's a measure of, how would you put it?

45:20He sacrificed a little bit of his own game in the opposition half to ensure that we didn't fall foul of something in our own half. And I think that was a really, that's a guy taking responsibility, whether he was instructed or not, I don't know, could well have been. But I think that was an important aspect of how we managed those two players on yellow cards for so long. Yeah. I mean, it's more leadership skills demonstrated, isn't it, from Declan Rice. And when we talk about Saliba and Gabriel being out, I think inevitably we focus on their physical presence, their defensive attributes, but they are so important.

45:59as well in the way the team build up. We say Mikel Arteta built this team from the back. So naturally, if you take those pieces out, there is going to be a knock-on effect. And I mentioned David Raya taking a few more risks on the ball in those early stages. And I think that was partly about him taking responsibility too and not giving Mosquer and Incapier difficult situations on the ball in the first few minutes of the game when he probably knew and suspected Chelsea would be after them. So I think Arsenal, they protected that untested defensive unit very, very well, as you would expect. And they came through it strongly, I thought, as a pair.

46:45I mean, they both had their moments or their wobbles, but yeah, not to any great cost for Arsenal. So, I mean, it was interesting looking at the stats, you know, who do you think had the most touches for Arsenal yesterday?

47:03I have no idea. It's Mosquera. It's Mosquera. Mosquera, yeah, you know, and he passed it very well, like 95 % pass completion. Rice was next in terms of touches. Mosquera, 92 touches. Rice, 86. And then in Capier with 79, which is sort of what you would expect. and it's kind of the same way we would play with Gabriel and Saliba in the team. You know, against 10 men, the two central defenders have, you know, a lot of the ball. But I think what we know with Gabriel and what we know with Saliba is that they have the experience of the Premier League and the sort of understanding with each other about when maybe to push it a little bit in the opposition half.

47:45And I think, I'm not saying those two played it safe. I just think that the inexperience as a duo maybe was evident when we were playing against 10 men in the second half. And I thought actually, by the way, when Martin Odegaard came on, our press was a lot more effective. We looked a lot more difficult to play through in the second half when Odegaard came on and was organizing that press. That's interesting. Yeah. I think naturally as well, against a tiring 10 men, you know, that press, we could afford that extra man as well. But, yeah, it wasn't quite enough. There were moments, you know, late on that Timber header, which took it away from Jokeres.

48:29I think he's got to go for it there. You know, even if Jokeres is screaming at him, I don't think Timber can get out of the way. You know, we're talking split-second stuff here, you know. Marino had a shot, didn't he? The one that Sanchez saved. Yeah, yeah, it's a good recovery as well, I thought, to get to the rebound. Was it from Marino he made a good save in the first half or was it Martinelli? I think Martinelli. Martinelli. Martinelli, yeah. He actually had a decent game, Sanchez. Sod's law, it comes against us, but there you go. There you go. So there, yeah, one all, kind of as you were as regards Chelsea.

49:07City had obviously got their late winner on Saturday. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But to be honest, I'm sure some Arsenal fans were disheartened by that. I'm kind of more heartened by how much hard work they made of it.

49:26That gives me more confidence, the fact that it's so nearly 2-2. Against a Leeds team who have not been great. Yeah, big question marks over Daniel Fark. and yeah, a city at their imperious best, sweep them aside. Well, look, it's 1-1 away from home to Chelsea in a London derby and now we reset, we've got another London derby and I've got a question about that in part two. So why don't we take a little break here? We will come back with your questions and more in part two right after this.

50:11Welcome back to the Arsecast Extra. This is part two of the show where we answer the questions that you send to us on BlueSky at gunnerblog.bsky.social and at arseblog.com. Also on the Arseblog Discord chat server, which you get access to if you are an Arseblog member on Patreon. I did say I had a question about London Derbies, didn't I? Yes. wouldn't it have been great if i'd had that lined up and ready to go oh let me find it i got it okay i've got it and that the question comes from prashant who's at prashant.bsky.social he says hello gents how significant a role will the london derbies play in the title race as you've seen with fulham and palace these games are always tightly contested and brentford will be no exception we have a lot of those yeah i think it's a challenge that any london team trying to win a premier league faces um our record in london derbies under michael arteta is pretty good uh i think i'm right saying we were kings of london um for a second consecutive season last year we won seven of our 12 London derbies.

51:3125 points for a possible 36. It's not bad. It's not bad. It's not bad. I mean, when you think about who those teams are, who was it? Chelsea, Fulham, Brentford, Palace, West Ham, Spurs. Yeah. It's not bad at all. We only lost one of 12. Three draws in there. Maybe a bit of a theme last season. Probably if we could have converted some draws into wins, it might have made a big difference. But yeah, it's definitely a challenge London teams have to face. And I suppose the offset is, well, there's less travel involved. It's not like they're trekking up and down the country. It makes the preparation a little bit easier, matchday planning a little bit easier.

52:23But yeah, definitely going to be important. But, you know, we had two London derbies this week and drew one away, absolutely smashed our local rivals at home. It's not too shabby. Now another one on Wednesday against Brentford. Yeah. Do you have a question maybe about how we might change things there? That's a good question. I don't know if I... I think I had one as well. You can always ask me, Andrew, if you haven't got it. Yeah, hang on, let's see. For all these years. I know. I reckon. I know. Let me have a look and see if I can find one. Okay, here's one from Kevin Essington, who's at citygreenerstrategies.com on Blue Sky.

53:06He says, what odds do you think or do you give that Norgard will start on Wednesday? Zubimendi needs a breather. It's Norgard's old club and we should be able to start Odegaard. But I wonder if it might be time to maybe just give Declan Rice a little bit of a rest. Another one, Gunnar Forever, 07.bsky.social. Do you think Brantford might be a time to rest and rotate a bit? I think Rice and Saka looked a bit tired today, among others. Maybe it's time we give Norgard, White, Madueke, Odegaard, and Jokeres starts. Bearing in mind, of course, that we've got Aston Villa on Saturday lunchtime. Yeah, I was looking at that Chelsea team and I was thinking about, I think there are six players who started all three games that week.

53:55Timber. Oh, six outfielders. Raya did, obviously. And then Timber, Zubimendi, Rice, Eze, Saka, Marino. You would think a few of them would be in line for a rest. And Arteta kind of hinted at that. He said something like, we're going to need everybody. Well, he always says that. He does always say it, yeah. But I do wonder if he... It's not just Brentford, is it? It's Villa as well for the weekend, which is a really tough game. That's it. That's it. So I have to think he's going to be looking to make a few changes. Specifically Norgard.

54:43I think Zubimendi could start this game Yeah Because he came off quite early Yeah, after an hour So he'd be well capable of starting I think as well Did we see Mikel Arteta Previously want to try Ezza and Odegaard together Was it the game against Forrest? Was it the game when Odegaard got injured? It was the game Odegaard got injured Yeah, and he started He only saw it for about 20 minutes Home game Eze and Odegaard together, what can they do? Is there scope then maybe to play a Norgard as an Odegaard midfield? Potentially, then you can rest Zubimendi and Rice. You keep these guys on the bench, obviously, so you've got legs to come on.

55:25But, you know, I do think this is a game on Wednesday that he does need to use his squad, not just to give us the best chance of winning against Brentford, but also to give us the best chance of going to Villa Park, which is a difficult place for us to go. It has been in recent seasons. And I think if you're thinking about that game and how we could get three points there, it's going to be a very high energy game. You know, we're going to have to run with Aston Villa on Saturday. So you want Rice, Uba Mendy, Timber, Calafuri. We don't quite know what the state of play will be at centre half yet.

56:05but you know if if saliba can come back in i think the scope for quite a bit of change on wednesday night let me ask you of those kind of first choice players the ones who've played a lot of minutes who are the ones that you're like i'd love to see them given a rest i think i think it would really benefit them is it rice maybe rice timber

56:36maybe Saka I'm not 100 % on that one but you do have Matueke for example you know who can play there so you can take some some pressure off him I saw quite a bit of chat about Saka yesterday and I don't think he had a brilliant game by any means but I think what he demonstrated with the assist is that he is a player who in a tight game has the ability to produce a moment of quality which you can get get you something from a game. So he remains really important. His shooting boots were on the wrong feet. I think he put a couple way over the bar, didn't he? But maybe I'd think about him. Yeah. The fullback ones are interesting because I think Arteta's willingness to make those changes may depend on what he's got in the center.

57:26I would throw the name of Mikel Moreno in actually he's played so many minutes in the absence of Havertz and Jokeres and I actually would be looking at this week and thinking I want him to start at Villa Park probably just because we don't quite know where Jokeres is I mean, we'll know more after Wednesday night, potentially, if he plays. But I just think the team, as a rule, functions so well with Mourinho in that role. Yeah. I mean, do you think it's within the realms of possibility that Wednesday could be like a timeshare for Jacarez and Jesus? That maybe Jacarez starts and then 20 minutes to go, you can put Gabriel Jesus on and give him some minutes?

58:16I think so. I'd quite like to see that. and then you find out what you've got there for a start and then you can make your decision for Saturday. As I said, I think last week, at the moment, I think it's Marino's shirt. But if Victor comes in on Wednesday night and slams in a couple of goals, that quickly change. And maybe after his performance at the bridge, maybe Eze would be one that I'd be thinking about. I think Martin Odegaard should start. I think Martin Odegaard should start. He's had two sub appearances. I think game at home, this is a great opportunity to give him some minutes that he really needs.

59:02I've got a few questions here. You mentioned Durian Timber as a player you'd like to get a rest. We actually had a lot of questions about Ben White. We did, a lot.

59:17so like Nikhil very broadly just says hi gents are either of you worried about the lack of game time for Ben White no filler on blue skies do you think Ben White has been mismanaged Artesha is willing to find game time for almost everyone except him he's too good to never play and if he doesn't play he'll want to leave moreover if we never use him Timber is more likely to get injured which is the last thing we need but yeah I mean I could have picked any there are a lot of questions saying why doesn't Ben work right why play what are you thinking about it is he going to play in the week so over to you what do you make of it I will say that one of the changes I had thought or would have thought about if I was Mikel Arteta yesterday.

1:00:07If I was making changes at halftime, I would have given consideration to bringing Ben White on for Mosquera and putting Timber in at centre-half. Or indeed Ben White at centre-half. We had some questions about Ben White playing at centre-half, which is, you know, the position he first came to the club in hasn't really played there a lot over the last little while. I mean, I will say I'm worried because I think we had a discussion maybe a couple of weeks ago about Ben White, and we were finding it a little bit hard to understand why. There was a little three-game run where we were expecting maybe Ben White to get the game in midweek, and he didn't.

1:00:50He got a few minutes, and he got a few minutes against Bayern the other night as well, but that was it. My fear is that physically he's not... that Arteta has some doubts about him physically, because as I said a couple of weeks ago, he cannot have any doubt about the quality of Ben White, the attitude of Ben White, the character of Ben White, the ability, the footballing ability of Ben White. So if he's not being picked, does it tell us something about the physicality of Ben White and whether or not he has been really hampered by that injury? I think, you know, there's a good case to be made for him to start on Wednesday against Brentford.

1:01:32I think he's good enough to play for this Arsenal team in the way that Mikel Arteta wants this Arsenal team to play. I recognise that Jurian Timber has been absolutely sensational this season and the balance of power now is with him in that right-back position, but that doesn't mean that Ben White is a busted flush from a footballing perspective, unless there is something physically wrong with him that we can't use him, or the manager feels like he can't depend on him from the start of a game. I don't know. I find it quite strange because he was one of Mikel Arteta's most trusted lieutenants, wasn't he?

1:02:13And then, as can happen with a player, they find themselves on the periphery of the manager's thoughts. and once you're there it's kind of hard to get back in you know yeah well it's kind of vicious cycle isn't it because if they don't if they do have concerns over him physically the one thing that's not going to help that is inactivity and so if the manager's worried doesn't play him he doesn't get sharper necessarily and then it It becomes a question of like, well, what sort of game are you prepared to throw him in for? You know, you talk about the midweek game against Bayern Munich. Could he have rotated him in for that one?

1:02:57But, you know, it's a huge test against one of the best sides in Europe. And is he in a place where he's able to just seamlessly step in? Probably not, given his protracted absence from the team. So I definitely think there is something there. like you I have my suspicions around a physical issue you know we know Ben's had procedures and knee issues and some fairly lengthy layoffs and there can be kind of collateral to that I do wonder if you know because of that is centre-half something that might suit him more than having to gallop up and down that right flank. I mean, it's interesting, isn't it?

1:03:45He arrived principally as the centre-half for£50 million. But on the way Arteta is picking the team right now, he's not in the first four centre-backs. He is the natural second choice at right-back. I think this Brentford game surely has got Ben White's name on it. I'd be really worried if he doesn't play this one because, listen, we can talk about Ben White, but we also, as others have pointed out in their questions, we need to think about Jurian Timber as well because, you know, he has played a lot of minutes this season and, you know, he too was somebody who, you know, was afflicted by injury, not just the big one that he had in his first season, but last season too, where at the end of the season, didn't he have an operation?

1:04:37He did. He did, yeah, you're right. He was laid back, wasn't he, for pre-season this season? Yeah. And then you look at the minutes so far this season, only Declan Rice has played more minutes, outfield minutes, than Jury and Timber. But one thing we can say, I think, at this point, after however many years of Mikel Arteta, is that once he does have that doubt or that uncertainty around picking a player, it can be difficult for that player can't it I mean we've seen that that pattern play out many times I'm not saying that is quite where Ben is yet but I think that's probably what's giving us all something to talk about here is that we've seen Mikel lose faith feels strong but get into a position with certain players where he's he's maybe reluctant he said something either in the pre-game press conference or pre-Beyron maybe.

1:05:43He said something, you know, about, he was asked about Ben White and the minutes he's playing or not playing. And he said something about like, he's got to earn it. Yeah. He's got to earn. And it's like, I thought that was a little odd, you know? I mean, he did say like everybody else, he's got to earn it, et cetera, et cetera, and blah, blah. But it felt a little off to me. It just didn't quite sound right to me, the way he talked about Ben White, as if, you know, he needed to be convinced by what Ben White can bring to this team on the pitch when, you know, we've seen since he arrived from Brighton, what a great player he is and how committed he is and how willing he is to sort of, you know, play through the pain and, you know, do everything that Mikel Arteta wants from a player.

1:06:32So I don't know. We'll see. I guess Wednesday will tell us something. I think as well, we have to acknowledge that Juri and Timber's performances have taken him into a sort of tier of selection that he wasn't necessarily previously in. I think he's now, as much as Saliba or Gabriel, an automatic pick, right? Yeah, no, I just dropped something off my desk. Just frustration at not getting to look at beautiful Ben White and I'm smashing stuff you're off. That's my picture of Ben White in his Speedos. Just knocked it over out of sadness. But, you know, yeah, we've got to give Timber his dues as well.

1:07:15But we want to keep him there. We want to keep him fit and protected. And Ben White is probably our best way of doing that. What about this for a question from 1.76 Acres? And he says, What would the narrative be if Arsenal had gone down to 10 men at home against an opponent in first place, drew, but cost themselves a chance to cut the gap to the leaders? Why are Chelsea being showered with praise when their indiscipline is likely to cost them dearly? Why is today being portrayed by many as a referendum on a weakened Arsenal and not the home club, second place club that really needed to win, but played violently to their own detriment?

1:08:00That's interesting. I mean, I would say actually I've seen sort of both teams given a fair amount of credit coming out of this. I've not ingested loads of media around it, but I think it's one of those where Chelsea can feel like, well, we held out for a draw with 10 men. We played pretty well. equally Arsenal can say we came from behind we avoided defeat we maintain our lead over Chelsea so I feel like the narrative that I've observed has kind of been quite favourable for both sides which is quite an unusual thing in a big game you know usually there's like clear winners and losers I suppose when it's a draw that helps yeah yeah I don't know why What do you think?

1:08:54I think we all sort of consume the media through our own prism in a way, you know. But I did see some headlines and stuff, you know, about Chelsea. You know, they've shown their title contenders because they played like that with 10 men. And, you know, the flip side of that, of course, is like they were on top and the better team with 11 versus 11. So are they too emotional? Are Chelsea too emotional? Maybe, you know? Yeah. I mean, as I said, I think what they really needed yesterday was a win. I think that could have really ignited their season in a potentially quite exciting way for them. I think they'll be frustrated too, and sending off the way things played out.

1:09:45I mean, this is kind of a tangential question from Joseph Nathan. And Joseph says, are you concerned about our performance in the last two away games? Both draws and far from the performances we've got used to, big atmosphere and physical opposition is what we're going to go up against as we challenge for the title. Is this the first crack in the armour of an inexperienced team? I don't think you can call us an inexperienced team. for a start. I really don't think you can do that.

1:10:23Listen, I think we probably did enough to win at Sunderland, you know, in terms of what we did in that game. When you look at how we played, 17 shots in that game to six. I think we closed the 2xG to their 0.5xG. We got caught by a late sucker punch, right? And that changes the way people talk about that game. You know, it was a point away from home, but if we win that game, people will be saying, look, Arsenal stood up to Sunderland's aggressive, direct approach and still had what it took to win that game. I think yesterday felt maybe like a bit of an outlier in terms of our recent performances.

1:11:09I've seen a couple of questions. Let me see if I can get one here. Peebs on the Discord says, what do you make of this team's inability to go away to its title rivals and win? As great as we've been this season, it would be lovely to add that string to our bow. You know, this was a game which I think we've tried to give the right context to in terms of explaining the way Arsenal didn't perform and didn't reach the levels that they can. The Liverpool game, I think that's just like we got caught on the day. It was a very even game and they produced one moment which won it for them. Have we played any other title rivals away from home?

1:11:51No. No. So listen. Sunderland, obviously. Sunderland, yeah. They're in the top four, aren't they? Or they're there about. I just think sometimes you're going to have a bad day or an indifferent day. Bad is losing. point is not what we wanted but not the worst in the world but i think it's probably too the sample size is too small this season in terms of games against so-called title rivals um to really draw any conclusions so and i and i stopped short of saying we were bad yesterday day. Like I think we were, the word I used was average, you know, I really, I think, I thought we were a way off where we have been for the most of the season, whether we were actively bad.

1:12:40I'm not so sure. I think you've got to remember the context. You've got to remember who you're playing. You've got to remember what you've already done that week. You've got to remember who you're without. All these things contribute. There are quite lot of parallels between the Chelsea and Sunderland games in terms of the physicality, maybe the types of goal we conceded as well. Do I think it's sort of setting a precedent? Not particularly. I think my main sort of what I'm grieving from the game, which is an overstatement. I'm not grieving it. but I did have that feeling going in that Arsenal had the chance to sort of really, really, really deliver a hammer blow to their rivals by winning there.

1:13:33You know, like I think had we won yesterday, what were we looking at? Would it be nine points from Chelsea, eight from Man City or seven from Man City?

1:13:48I think even the most cautious of Arsenal fans would have to have said at that point in time, we would be very clearly in the driving seat. And I kind of wanted us, well, kind of, I wanted us to do that. I wanted it because I sort of thought, yeah, to the question's point, going away to these grounds is maybe a bit of a gap on the CV in terms of going and delivering those knockout blows in their backyard. Yeah. And it would be nice to kind of shut people up by winning at Stamford Bridge and winning the Etihad and romping on home to the title. But Premier League titles are rarely that simple, Andrew.

1:14:38That's true. That's true. Arteta said afterwards, overall, it's been a really positive week because the difficulty has been immense. But I have this flavor that today we should have won the game and we haven't. That's a learning point for me. So no sort of obscuring the fact that this was a missed opportunity. And I know exactly what you're talking about. But I do think that, you know, there are going to be games where it doesn't work out for you, where you don't play well, where the changes off the bench don't particularly make an impact, which I think was the case yesterday. it was two players who started the game who got us the point.

1:15:16You know, in Saka and Marino and the substitutes didn't really have the kind of influence that we want. But, you know, I also think that a poor performance from Arsenal was, not that it was overdue, but we haven't really had one for a long, well, for a good while, you know? Yeah. If you look at the games that we've played, let me just get these up here.

1:15:46like we haven't lost since the end of August and we won one, two, three, four, four, ten in a row, then won the next two. So this is a team that is at this moment in time, one, two, three, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 games unbeaten. And in that time, we've beaten Newcastle away. We've beaten Atletico Madrid. We've beaten Tottenham. We've beaten Bayern Munich. You know, we've gone away to Athletic Club and we've drawn with Manchester City. And for the most part, I think people have been really, really encouraged by the way that Arsenal play, the way we've responded to setbacks, the way we've dealt with absences and injuries.

1:16:32I mean, there's going to be a day where it kind of catches up with you a little bit. And I think yesterday was that day. totally agree totally agree and as i say when you have that day don't lose um and that's where we're at so not not too shabby not too shabby um do you have anything else i think we oh let me ask you this one just to finish okay because we do have to get this out we're delayed recording and there's other stuff to do today as well. Elizabeth on the Discord said, the commentator in the US said he didn't think Arteta would like Incapié laughing in Pedro Neto's face. Do you think that's true?

1:17:19No, I don't think that's true. I think Mikael probably loves that aspect of Incapié's character. I agree. That would be my assumption. I thought it was interesting as well, wasn't it? Because when he got up and when he got in the face of Pedro Neto, it was Christian Mascara who came over. Like, Mascara's the youngest guy in the team, basically, apart from Lewis Kelly and Warneri, and he wasn't on the pitch. So Mascara sort of recognized the moment for what it was and let him do it for a couple of seconds and then said, listen, you know, we've got a corner to defend here. Get yourself back, get yourself organized, concentrate on this and let's defend this one properly, you know, especially because we conceded.

1:18:11So I think when Arteta looks back at that moment, he'll have a good laugh at Incappier doing that. And I don't think he'll have any issue with it whatsoever. But I also think he'll look at the behavior of Christian Mosquera too, and be really, really encouraged that a young player was sort of that in the game. it's the sort of thing you expect from a more senior player isn't it yes and in personality terms they are sort of reminiscent of gabrielle and saliva yeah it's true actually yeah yeah in terms of the balance of that partnership in capier clearly is sort of a more emotional character than mascara i've got to say simon collings um sent me this tweet by alex who's at Alex FR Co on X which really made me laugh which said great tackle but Hincapier makes me nervous feels like watching a dog drive your car perfectly they're driving perfectly but they're still a dog I want to read more football analysis like that that's what we want what kind of a dog yeah I know exactly and weirdly weirdly I know exactly what he means yeah it's a good observation to be fair anyway it's a good point at which to leave it and obviously there is a game against Brentford which we will have a preview podcast for tomorrow there's a press conference I assume with Michael Artetic half past nine tomorrow morning okay so we'll have a preview podcast tomorrow afternoon we'll also be rounding up all the weekend's Premier League action in an episode of the 30 fun goings on at White Hart Lane and beyond.

1:19:53So we'll talk about all that. If you want to get on board with our Patreon, you can join at patreon.com forward slash arseblog. For now, though, folks, thanks for being with us. Thanks for listening as always, and we will catch you on the next one. Bye-bye.