Arsecast Extra Episode 677 - 19.01.2026

0:12Hello and welcome to another Arsecast Extra as always with James from Gunnerblog James good morning to you Good morning, Andrew. How are you? This is fine morning. I think I'm okay now. Yeah. It's been like mad the last couple of days because I will admit to a heightened sense of frustration at the final whistle on Saturday evening after our nil-nil draw at the city ground. Cold light of day, dust settling, all that kind of stuff. I'm a little more sanguine, a little more, okay, you know, we're in good shape. We're still in good shape, but I harbor some worries and concerns like many people do.

0:55But I think this season is testing. It's driving me fucking slightly around the bend, you know? How much of the change in your mood is down to Uncle Unai's efforts at Villapal? Sort of not really a great deal, to be honest. I think it would have heightened my concern if Villa had won yesterday and they get to, what, four points of Arsenal? If they'd won, then I'd be like, I don't really see it with Villa. But, you know, for me, it's more about City. It's always been about City. And that's not to dismiss Aston Villa or their title credentials or their title aspirations, even though Unai Emery afterwards seemed to say we're not good enough to be in the top five, which is a really ringing endorsement of your own team from a manager, I guess.

1:47But it was really more about the city game that happened earlier in the day, obviously when they got beaten. And we then had this opportunity to go and really hammer home our title credentials by beating Nottingham Forest at the city ground. And we didn't do that. And that felt like even though we gained a point on Manchester City, which is obviously good, how can it be anything other than good? There was still that sense that we'd missed something and left something on the table, you know. But I think it's more about, you know, just a bit of time passing between that performance, that result and now rather than anything that involves Aston Villa.

2:30I mean, what about you? Well, I was sort of privately very relieved because, you know, I did my post-match video after the game on Saturday and a few people in the comments, I was talking a lot about City and extending the lead over City and how important that was. A few people in the comments pointed out, quite rightly, they were like, you know, like a lot of the media, you are forgetting about Aston Villa. And they were kind of right. I was forgetting about Aston Villa. I hadn't really factored into my thinking that if they won, they'd be just four points off. But I sort of like it was kind of a I did forget them.

3:07But that's, I guess, because I don't really consider them true contenders like yourself. And so then I was very relieved and delighted when they went and lost at home to Everton because I felt it sort of vindicated my mistake. If you see what I mean. Sure. I don't I don't even think that's a mistake per se. I think it's just what we're conditioned to when it comes to a title race. Like, again, it's not to be dismissive of Villa because they've won a lot of games and their form has been good. But I think when it comes down to it, do you really consider them a title contender? And I'm not sure. I'm much more worried about Man City, let me say, than I am about Aston Villa.

3:52And you spoke about the kind of rollercoaster of the weekend from the Manchester derby to the city ground and then how you've kind of leveled out since then. I'm just sort of interested in a broad perspective because I don't think you're alone in that. I think a lot of people will identify with that and share in that. To what extent, like, do you think the kind of emotional volatility of the Arsenal fan base is a consequence of trauma we have suffered in previous title races? Do you think that is kind of what is colouring our perception and our enjoyment, I suppose, of this? Yes, 100%. I think we've talked about this a fair bit, but it absolutely is part of it.

4:40And I think it is just something that we are going to have to, what's the right word, endure? Is that maybe the right word to use? Because I don't think this is going to be fun. right if we get if we get the title this season it's going to be amazing and we're all going to be delighted and we're going to celebrate we're going to have a great time and it will be incredible wherever you are in the world whether you celebrated you know up and down the holloway road whether you celebrate it in your own home regardless of where you are in the world i think it's going to be an amazing celebration online offline everywhere for arsenal fans but i don't think it's going to be a lot of fun until that happens.

5:25I mean, I made a sort of slightly over the top analogy yesterday in the blog when I was writing about the forest game. And it's sort of, I said, you know, someone offered you a million pounds, but you have to go with this guy in a car and he's a lunatic and he's drunk and he's swerving and he's switching lanes and he's driving into oncoming traffic and speeding along a cliffside road with a sheer drop down one side when you get to the destination the million pounds will be fucking incredible but getting there is just terrifying and that's kind of how i feel about this season this title race and you know i'm straddling two worlds at the same time because there's part of me that recognizes you know objectively where we are is fantastic and we're in great shape.

6:17And I think I said this to you maybe last week or the week before, something that gives me encouragement is that I feel like there is room for improvement from this Arsenal team. I think there are elements of our game which can be improved and we can do better in. And if we do that, then we're, we've got an even better chance of the title because, you know, we're sort of falling short in a particular area, which we'll come to, I think, and we'll talk about that, which is goal scoring and potency and attack. We're falling short there a little bit, not by much, but I do think there is an area that we can improve in.

6:54So I recognize that all objectively. But at the same time, when a game is going on, when it's nil-nil, when you come away from home and you're expecting and hoping for three points and you only get one and you feel like you've missed out on something, That also plays into that fear, that emotional volatility, as you call it, which I think is absolutely right, that the moments we have to be absolutely ruthless in this season, we're not necessarily taking advantage of those. And that sort of scratches that scab away of that wound that we've all experienced in the previous three seasons. Yeah, I think so.

7:31I think so. I think there is this kind of latent fear that at some point we're going to be made to pay for any dropped point. Exactly, yeah, yeah. I have to be honest and say I'm not sure that that fear is a reality. There's not a team in this Premier League that I'm looking at and thinking at any moment they're going to suddenly put together you know some sort of mad 15 game run um but i totally understand where that fear comes from do you know do you know what it is though as well i think if i was looking at one of our title rivals doing what we're doing i'd be deathly afraid of our ability to keep up with them and to compete with them but but it's the other way around right i'm having to experience it the other way around And listen, I just think it is everything that we've been waiting for and hoping for and the pressure, the expectation, the desire for success and for the big trophies and for this project to come to fruition in terms of the major silverware.

8:45it's a pressure that I can't remember experiencing before. I was talking with Jim, the man from East Lower over the weekend, and he was like, was this pressure? Is this what it felt like in the Invincible season? And I was like, I don't really think so. But then I remember that game with Thierry Henry on Good Friday against Liverpool, you remember. And how was it put maybe at the time when Henry scored that goal or maybe the goal to put us ahead of that game that we were trailing at halftime. And I think people would say if Highbury had a roof, the roof would have come off because there was this explosion of not just celebration of the goal, but a kind of relief, right?

9:30Did that not come because there was pressure? Because there was expectation? Like it must have been there, but it doesn't, I don't recall it feeling anything like this. well it has only been two years since our last league title and I think that the the pressure the expectation the fear that unfortunately comes in a package along with that um is a consequence of waiting so long and wanting it so much um so I think that is unfortunately the reality of of of what we face is that you know it is going to feel squeaky and scary at times um it's probably not going to feel like to to us like it might to others on the outside yes you know there's been a lot of that kind of commentary of sort of arsenal fans need to chill out but if you haven't if you don't share our lived experience correct i'm afraid it's very difficult to sort of identify that yeah and you know what it's been interesting because there are people you know there are Arsenal fans out there who are like, chill out, relax.

10:38We're in great shape. Everything's going okay. Man City are not playing well. Villa have lost. You know, there's a lot to be positive about. I'm a little bit in that camp. I've got one foot in that camp. Sure. And listen, like I said, I can see it. I can absolutely see it. But I think, you know, it's important that we're all able to experience this in our own way. You know, there's no right way, wrong way, you know, beyond going to the complete extremes of either, you know, complete optimism or complete pessimism. I think it's okay to exist in whatever, wherever you are on that particular spectrum, that's fine.

11:14We're all going to experience it in our own ways. And people should be allowed to experience it in whatever way, you know, not that suits them, because I can't say that this suits me. I'm not saying I'm enjoying, I like it. I'm just sort of so desperate for it to happen that every game is such a high stakes experience. And I think Saturday was another one of those where it was high stakes. Maybe we didn't do ourselves justice on the night. And that sort of plays into the fears that are sort of underpinning the season for me. But I accept that there are other people out there who are, and I sort of am slightly envious of that point of view, you know, that slightly more relaxed.

12:00We're good. And, you know, chances are we can go the distance because we're good. I'd love to be a bit more like that. I'm not saying I don't see it, but, you know, it is what it is. And you can sort of help how you feel. You know, that's what it comes down to at the end of the day. no and I think I'm only able to ever sort of take that stance or that position as a consequence of having to place myself in a position of theoretical objectivity a lot of the time through work so I see it through a different lens at times and I see the way other clubs or neutrals I like talk about us and perceive us and it shines a bit of a different light on it but But I totally also have moments.

12:47So certainly I did during the 90 minutes on Saturday night where I start to worry that it's all going to slip away from us. So, yeah, let's talk about that game. Let's talk about the game then. And let's talk about, you know, maybe this is something worth noting because I did make this point before the game, but I'm probably guilty of not making this point after the game, which is that Nottingham Forest had eight days of rest before they played this one. And we played twice in the same time. They played last Friday. We played on Sunday and Wednesday. And that, for me, before the game, always looked like it might be a factor, which isn't to excuse Arsenal in any way.

13:30I'm not making an excuse for our performance. But I do think it is worth noting that perhaps there was a slight physical advantage for Nottingham Forest in this game versus an Arsenal team that has played a lot and which didn't show a lot of rotation from the team that played against Chelsea in midweek. There were three changes, David Raya, Nani Madueke came in, and Gabriel Martinelli came in to the front three. Those were the only changes. Yeah, a third of four consecutive away games as well with all the travel and interruption to training plans and training schedule that involves. And, you know, this will be an interesting kind of component of the second half of the season where we have, hopefully if we stay in all these cup competitions, our fixture list is going to be more loaded than others.

14:21I mean, for example, next weekend we play Manchester United. We'll have had a very challenging trip to Italy and into Milan in midweek. They'll have had seven and eight days rest. And, you know, that is going to be a factor, I think, moving forward that we're going to take into consideration, which might impact Mikel Arteta's selection. Yes, you would hope so. That's probably a discussion point as well, isn't it, with this game coming up in midweek, but we might leave that for part two. What did you make of the Arsenal performance? To me, it felt very typical of a first half that you play after a midweek game, like let's say you've got a Champions League game against a team that hasn't played in midweek, hadn't played for a few days and had that extra rest.

15:08It felt quite like that, that sometimes you need that first half to warm up. But I did feel that about the half hour mark, around the half hour mark, Arsenal really started to dominate the game and play the game in the forest half. I saw people say, well, they played, they parked the bus, played with a low block, et cetera, et cetera. I don't think it was quite that from their perspective because they did try and press high and put some pressure on us higher up the pitch. But yeah, the first half was cagey enough, but there were moments in it, obviously, where Arsenal can have some regrets about not making the most of opportunities.

15:47Definitely. I mean, I think there were big missed chances for Arsenal in this half. Forest were kind of interesting because obviously they're right down the bottom of the Premier League table, very much in a relegation battle. But as someone who's not watched them week in, week out, I kind of watched them here and thought, How's that happened? Because they were a good team last season. They've got some really talented players, you know, the likes of Gibbs White, Hudson-Odoi. I think they're just, they're a bit of a mess, aren't they? Sort of as an organisation, they've been kind of all over the place in terms of swinging from one managerial appointment to the other this season.

16:25They've also been without that back four. A lot of those players have been absent through different injuries. Having them back in place for this game obviously gave them a lift. But equally, I think you could look at it and say, we should have been ahead at half-time. I mean, there was that little spell you say around the half-hour mark. That was where that Ben White cross that just evaded Declan Rice and Victor Jocharez. Shortly after that, I mean, the chance of the game, you'd have to say, for Gabriel Martinelli. Yeah. he's got to score there. I agree. I agree. It's not his first bad back post miss in the last week, is it?

17:04He had one against Portsmouth where he really should have scored and miskicked and kicked it against the post. Offset, obviously by his, by his hat trick. So he can't go in too hard on him there, but that's a moment I think where you've just got to score. It doesn't matter who it is, whether it's Martinelli, Trossard, you know, Humpty Dumpty, you've got to fucking score that one, to be honest. He just sort of miskicks. I know it comes through a sea of legs. It's a Matueke shot, I think, that goes through. But that is the big chance, I think, of the game for Arsenal. Half an hour in, what was about 29 minutes in.

17:38And, you know, that's... Arteta talks about fine margins and sliding doors moments. You know, we score first there. You know what happens when you score in the first half. It opens up the game. It can crack open the game. One goal tends to lead to more goals. So, you know, that's the one where I think we can have a significant amount of regret. yeah I mean that period of the game I thought Forrest was fairly you know even there was kind of like 10-15 minutes that Arsenal almost had to kind of ride out the classic away game thing of sort of they're up for it and they you know they're a bit more ambitious in that early stage and then Arsenal slowly get hold of it you know we start knocking it around a bit at the back but that spell around half hour I think whoever's broadcasting the game the UK put up a graphic for the last five minutes and it was 96 % possession in Arsenal's favour which I don't think I've seen many times frankly and yeah that Martinelli chance was sandwiched by the cross that I mentioned from from Ben White and then an opportunity for Zubimendi where I have to say given that you know his excellence in the penalty area against Stamford Bridge on Wednesday night I thought there was more to be made of that moment.

18:50It was kind of neither a cross nor a shot, really. I think he was, yeah, caught between two stools there, really. I think you could sort of see what he was thinking if he was trying to lay it to the back post and somebody's there for a tap-in. I think that's kind of what he was trying to do, but maybe eschewed the opportunity to shoot at the last second as well, so didn't execute that ball across as well as he could have. Personally, I'd like to see him have a shot from there. I think you sort of up the odds a little bit because if you shoot across the goalkeeper he can make a save and maybe there's somebody there for the rebound anyway and I think Zubimendi is good enough in the opposition box and has good enough shooting technique to have tried that one I'm not saying it's a clear cut chance and he absolutely should score but I think what we've seen from him this season is he's well capable of putting his foot through the ball and I think he probably should have taken the shot in that moment I was surprised he didn't actually given you know given the the goals we have seen him score this season and the technique shown in those moments um there was the jokeres uh one five minutes or so before half time when i think it was murillo who kind of let the ball get away from him and it looks for a moment like jokeres and might have that rarest of things a clear run at goal yeah i mean that was a moment where I thought, this is it.

20:13This is kind of the moment he's been waiting for because we haven't seen him have that kind of chance too often. Teams don't tend to play with a very high line against us for the most part, so there's not always that space for a striker to run in behind. It just felt like he didn't make the most of that, to be honest. I don't think he does anything especially wrong, but I also don't think he should be allowing the defender to get back and block that shot. Maybe it's good defending from Murillo, but I also don't think it's particularly great from Jacarez either. Yeah, I don't know. What did you make of that moment?

21:01Yeah, I don't think any of the touches are sort of particularly helpful to his cause in terms of like getting the ball out in front of him and really creating that space. My overriding feeling is sort of, you know, Murillo is a big, powerful, quick centre half who recovers the situation really well, really effectively. And my sort of current fear, I guess, is that, you know, the goals we watch Xochitl score in Portugal, predominantly against teams outside of the sort of big three or four clubs in the Portuguese league. I just don't think he's up against centre-halves with that kind of physical capacity.

21:45I don't think he's encountering defenders who are as quick, as strong as him. And I sort of think that moment just kind of sums up some of the issues that he's having. It's like the superpower that really made him exceptional in Portugal, I just don't think it's translated to the Premier League at this point in time. Is it a problem or an issue that you think is surmountable or is this something he's going to have to come to terms with and adapt maybe? Because if you can't do the thing you were best at in this league, you've got to find another way to be effective, right? Yeah, I guess so. Or the manager and the coaching staff have got to find a way for him to be more effective.

22:36Yeah. I mean, he is being asked to play in a drastically different fashion. It was interesting. A colleague of mine spoke to somebody who was involved in signing him for sporting and recruiting him for them from Coventry, I believe it was. and they were saying they're not surprised that he's struggling at Arsenal because stylistically it's such a clash and such a difference and such a sort of almost opposite way of approaching the attack and facing such different types of defences. They sort of foresaw him potentially having trouble, which was an interesting perspective. my bigger fear right now is I just feel like there is a yes there is a stylistic issue undoubtedly but is there also a quality issue

23:34I'm at the moment I just don't see that he is at the level for what's required of a centre forward for a team who are competing at the sharp end of the Premier League and the Champions League like we are um i hope he can prove me wrong on that but i just don't see it i mean i started seeing people saying things like like making sort of i saw in your player ratings you were like well what's the swedish for maran chamak or something like that um a bit tongue-in-cheek but for six months chamak was actually pretty good like people say i've heard people say like oh you know comparing him to Bentner but like Bentner was quite useful for quite long periods I'm at the point where like I think we need to change it I'm just that I don't it's not happening at all maybe it will happen in future but at the moment I think Arsenal have got a centre forward who doesn't press doesn't combine and link the play and he doesn't score I more find myself wondering how are Arsenal doing this how are we top of the Premier League and the Champions League with a striker who, in my view, doesn't really offer anything?

24:51I think he's really struggling with pretty much every aspect of the game as well. I don't think everyone's focused on goals, but I think even in duels and 50-50s, he just doesn't seem to be capable of competing properly. you know he sort of backs his way in there was a terrible moment in the first half where like the ball was played into his feet and he takes about three touches, tries to get it under control fails, gets turned over and I was just like I mean look I think Victor Jokre is a better player than what he's showing us he must be he must be because for anything you might say about context and Portuguese league and you know he scored goals in the Champions League he's achieved things in the game he's had you know a really strong reputation in Europe he must be better than this but right now it's just not happening at all no I mean I think I made the the point in the blog the post game blog that I think in a game like this because I I watched your on the whistle video and you We talked about the attacking combinations not quite being there, not being right.

26:07And I think ultimately that is down to the fact that Jokeres just doesn't combine with anybody. You know, this idea that, oh, he can play with Trossard. So Trossard is more suitable to play with Jokeres. But Jokeres has to be able to play with Martinelli and Odegaard and Rice and Saka and Madoeke and, you know, whoever, Eze, whoever. He's got to be able to play with all of them. That's the reality of it, and I don't see that. And I think for a game like this, I'm at the point now when it comes to Jokeres that if we're going away from home for a game like this and we don't, let's say, have a fit enough Kai Havertz or a fit enough Gabriel Jesus, who really didn't do much when he came on either, but I think the scenarios are quite different, I'm looking at Mikel Marino and thinking, well, listen, the technical level of Mikel Moreno is so superior to that that we're seeing from Victor Jocharez, that that is likely to produce more cohesion in attack, even if he is not a recognized striker or a number nine.

27:13Well, yeah, and I think he's a better complement to Garo Martinelli and perhaps Noni Madueke. Yeah, I mean, I've said before, I don't understand why the Marino experiment, if you want to call it that, or the Marino option has been so sort of concertedly shelved. I think that was potentially a mistake. But I feel bad, to be honest. I feel like, I feel bad to be so critical of Jocarez because he's clearly a player, I think, suffering. Like, I think his confidence is really low. But equally, I don't really, I sort of don't see a way, like, there's no way around it at this point in time. You can't sugarcoat it.

28:04Yeah, you can't. There is no point sugarcoating it. And if we're talking about being ruthless and going for the title and having these lofty ambitions to win all the trophies, I think you know part of that from the manager's perspective is recognizing that there is something amiss here or something that's missing that we're not getting from Victor Jacarese that we hoped we get or expected to get and maybe there's a way around it maybe there's a way that they can make him more effective but right now he's not and that's something to consider when you pick your next team for a big game for an important game.

28:38You know, there's no room for sentiment if you want to go and win a title. You can't, I don't want to say carry a player, but you can't keep picking a player who underperforms if you want to go and win the league. You just can't. And I think, in fairness, we have to say that, and I think we've got questions about this later, but the whole front line, you know, the productivity levels, in the Premier League are down. But I just don't see how, you know, your selection at centre forward is obviously going to be a huge part of that, right? He's literally the guy, it's kind of, he's in the middle of everything.

29:25It's all constructed around. And a big problem in this game, again, it wasn't just him. It was also Martinelli, it was also Madueke. But the technical security of our front line was quite poor. I didn't feel like they were sort of able to, we were able to give it to them and it sort of stick with them and then hold it and bring others in. And I think that impacted our game. And we missed Saka, Trostard, you know, Marino, Jesus, Havertz, you have to mention Havertz, players who have generally a bit more security in those areas. Well, he did change it. He took Martinelli off at halftime. Yeah. and put Leandro Trossard on.

30:10And I guess, what was it, about 10 minutes later, he made a triple change, which was Maduweke, Jokerez and Odegaardol. So he put Saka, Marino and Gabriel Jesus on. Not usual or not common for Mikel Arteta to make four changes before the hour mark. I think if a manager makes that many changes that many early, they are effectively conceding that they got something wrong. Or that it didn't work. Yeah, exactly. What I thought was going to work has not worked. Or something in the opposition is different. It forces me to change. So I was quite, you know, I think people have said of Arturo in the past, does he wait too long sometimes to correct or amend things?

30:58I think it's positive that he tried to change it that early. And yeah, like, you know, we've got to be honest and say, it's not like Gabriel Jesus came on and was a revelation at nine. He was, I think, not much better than Victor Jarkarez, if at all. But I think where the difference is when you're sort of judging, is that the right word? But, you know, when you're trying to assess those two players, is what we're doing with Gabriel Jesus is trying to squeeze out the last drops. I don't want to take Paul's analogy too far, but like the last bit of the toothpaste out of Gabriel Jesus, right? He's a guy who's been injured and diminished, and we're trying to get something out of him between now and the end of the season after a long time out injured, a year out at least, on top of all the injury issues he had before that.

31:56With Jokeres, he's coming in as a big money signing. So that's why I think there's a slightly different assessment of those two players. But I don't think he was particularly good in that centre-forward role. Didn't really offer us a great deal more. I don't think Trossard had a significant impact. I did think Saka and Mikel Moreno had a positive impact. Yeah, I thought so. Moreno, I mean, obviously Odegaard comes off before the hour as well. the captain, I thought he had a poor day, no doubt. I've got a question about him for part two, so we'll... Okay. I thought Marino was really impactful. I mean, I think Forrest sort of struggled to live with his presence in the box, his movement, his ability to get on the end of stuff.

32:51I think I texted you actually saying, I feel like if someone's going to make the difference today, it's going to be him because he was just getting into really dangerous areas. it actually was suiting him. I know we're talking about him potentially playing as a nine, but it was suiting him from deeper and joining the attack. And we had another kind of little five-minute, what was it, five, seven-minute spell where he had another kind of clutch of chances, which sadly didn't work out. It started with Declan Rice having an effort from the edge of the box, which Cel saved. And then he produced another really outstanding save to deny Bukhara's sake.

33:27Yeah, I mean, I think it is a good save, but I think it's a save I would want my goalkeeper to make. It's a decent header from Saka, but I don't think it's like going top corner. It just sort of falls at the right height for the goalkeeper. Again, it's a good save. Mikel Moreno had a header that he flicked wide. I think it was from a corner, was it? I can't remember if it was from a corner. I think it's a rice free kick maybe, but if it's the one I'm thinking of,

33:57it's about a foot away from being in the bottom corner. I mean, you could say he could do better there. I think I saw TV pundits, Stephen Gerrard maybe saying, oh, he wants to do better there. But I mean, he gets a lot right. It's just slightly wide. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The stacker one, by the way, like, I think you're right. I think it's probably, I mean, it looks like a really fantastic save. I think when you watch it back, the reason he's able to make it is there's not a great deal of power in that header. Yeah, exactly. He has quite a long time to get across, but I think it's actually something to do with the camera angle and the fact that there's a Forest defender in between him and the save that I think really exaggerates it.

34:40Yeah. He had a good game sales. He did. Yeah, no question. I think, you know, part of the frustration that I had with the outcome of this game was that we weren't really able to ramp up the pressure in the closing stages. From the 71st minute onwards, we did not have a shot on target, which was disappointing to me. And I think, you know, spoke to, like, maybe it's fatigue, maybe it's tired, maybe it's the combination's not working, maybe we just didn't have it in the legs to really push on. Maybe Forrest defended very well, and we have to give them some credit for that. But, you know, we did make those changes, and you're bringing on Jesus and Trossard and Eze came on eventually.

35:22Like I was maybe a little, maybe I shouldn't be surprised at this point, but maybe I was a bit surprised that it wasn't Eze for Odegaard. Even though, you know, like I said, I did think Marino had a positive impact, but we just could not find a way or create the chance that could win us the game. There was the moment, obviously, that Mikel Arteta thinks is a clear penalty and should have been given. What's your opinion on that incident? It's very unusual. I think we're sort of the – I feel like often I'm the one who's like, oh, no, I'm with the officials on this one. But I think that probably is a penalty.

36:05I just don't understand. Like, you think it's not, right? I think it would be very harsh. to give it, you know, my usual rule, how would I feel if that was given up the other end? And I think basically what happens is his own man sort of barges into the back of him. Gabriel Jesus is there and gives him a kick in the ribs along the way. And the ball just sort of, he's the ball sort of brushes his arm, like barely brushes the underside of his arm and goes out for a corner anyway. Like, I don't think I like, I'm not desperate to see it given. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this is a disgrace.

36:48If it's on the line, you know what I mean? I think it's a different situation where if he prevents the ball going over the line, that's 100 % a penalty. I think the fact that he's going away from goal, the ball is basically out for a corner anyway, and it sort of brushes the underside of his arm because, you know, I'm not really into the natural position, unnatural position. You know, your body goes in all kinds of weird shapes when you're defending. i think if that's given against us up the other end i would go absolutely spare so i can't this morning or after the game even i couldn't sort of get on board with the idea that we were robbed in that moment i think you could see it given but i think it would have been very very fucking generous i mean i have i feel like i have seen those given i again i spoke about camera angle on the cell save i actually think and again it's one of the difficulties of var but i think there There are two views of this incident that give a very different impression.

37:47So I feel like the one behind the goal where you see his arm sort of move towards the ball and it looks as almost as if he's like cupping the ball to keep it in play. I think from that angle, to me, it looks more a penalty. From the reverse angle, which is like, you know, from the other side, you kind of see that he gets a bit of a buffeting from Jesus and a teammate and it sort of knocks him off balance and ball makes contact with his shoulder. And I think from that angle, it looks like less of a penalty. All I can say is that with my sort of lived experience, to use that term again, of sort of watching VAR reviews, I thought, and maybe it's because I was slightly being led this way by the commentary, I expected it to be given.

38:35Yeah, I think what he's doing in that moment is he's just trying to get his body around the ball to see it out. I think that's what's happening. And that's why his body shape is that way. And like I said, the ball's nearly out anyway. I just, you know. I did enjoy his Instagram post about it. Have you seen that? Yeah, I saw that, yeah. Yeah, he drew comparisons with Eddie Guerrero, I think it was, whose motto was to lie, cheat and steal. And I believe he's a bit of an Arsenal fan. He's a good character. I mean, I think my overriding feeling about it is that I think it would have been, I guess I feel like I would have felt more aggrieved if I really believed we did enough to win the game.

39:24And I'm not convinced we did. And so I sort of, there is some sort of like karmic feeling within me of like, it would have been such a gift. I just can't say we really deserved it. I know that's not what officiating decisions are made on, but I think that impacts how I feel about them. Deserve ain't got nothing to do with it, as a wise man once said, you know. But I know where you're coming from. I will say this morning that, obviously, if we'd been given a penalty and we'd scored it, I'm not going to complain about that decision. But I don't feel like we were robbed, like in previous games, of previous decisions from referees where I felt like, oh no, that is wrong.

40:09We've been robbed of something here. I don't feel like that this morning. And listen, I'd probably be the first to feel that way, given how desperate I am. You wouldn't be shy about it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I think the bigger issue from an Arsenal perspective is that in that last 25 minutes, we did not have a shot on target. That, for me, is a bigger issue than us not getting a maybe, maybe penalty. Well, totally, totally. And, you know, Jokeres is off the pitch at that point in time. You know, I feel, I've sort of said my piece on him today, but the attacking issues in the team were wider than that on occasion.

40:53and I mean listen it's that classic thing where I wonder what the XG on the game was not to go I think we it was like 2.1 to blah blah blah let's say I've got it here hang on one second 2.1 XG for Arsenal four big chances statistically anyway to .34 for nottingham forest nottingham forest did they have a shot on target i don't think they did no they didn't so i mean that would indicate to me i mean racking up 2xg away from home in the premier league it's not it's pretty decent actually and the fact that we didn't convert those chances that that may have been the biggest problem like if if i know this is sort of brutally simplistic But if Gabriel Martinelli taps that way in the first half, we're probably reflecting on this as like a professional, organised, disciplined win on the road.

42:07So, you know, when you don't score, it's tempting to sort of talk about attacking dysfunction and relationships and do we make chances. But like, we absolutely should have scored. in this game. I completely agree with that. And I think there is a wider discussion, and maybe we'll get into it a bit in part two, where you could talk about a manager stylistic approach maybe having an impact on how you attack, right? And I think there's some merit to that discussion, particularly when it comes to our attackers. And I'll delve into the Orbeño stats, which I think are fascinating when it comes to our Premier League goal conversion.

42:52But regardless of that, I don't think you can miss chances like the one Martinelli did and put that down to, well, this is because we don't attack in a certain way or we're not fluent enough going forward. I think those are separate issues that when you do create a moment or when a moment like that happens in a game, it's distinct from whatever stylistic or tactical approach you have to attacking. Do you know what I mean? yes and actually like it's interesting because i saw a bit of debate after the game of you know there was naturally a kind of big reaction of like oh this is all about arteta and attack and you know can he coach a forward line you know get that sort of big um broad brush strokes stuff and then you get other people saying it's not about that it was just poor finishing we just didn't take our chances and actually i think probably probably the most sensible way to think it is well you know both were kind of an issue in their own way correct and and you know there's merit in i think both arguments absolutely i mean the the martinelli chance is a separate thing for me from the fact that in the last 25 minutes we didn't get a shot on target there's where you can talk about the the structure or the attacking structures or or the shot creation, goal creation, chance creation, all of those things, which I think are certainly, if not like an issue, you can understand why people are having that discussion, right, about Arsenal.

44:27And it feels maybe, again, it's us, maybe it's our experience. It feels like goals are hard work for us at times. We go through periods of a season where we find it hard to score. And that's been a theme, I think, for Arsenal under Mikel Arteta for the last couple of years, where we have these periods where, oh God, where are the goals going to come from? And, you know, all of a sudden we find a way and we, not that the floodgates open, but, you know, we've had periods then where we're scoring four and five and sometimes six goals in games. you know this perception that Arsenal don't score enough I get it but only City have scored more than us this season and it's only five goals last season if you leave aside Liverpool which I know is not an easy thing to do but they were the champions and Mohamed Salah blasted them to the title by scoring a fucking million goals last season City only scored three goals more than us last season and we played for about four or five months without a center forward you know yeah so this perception versus the reality i think it's all just part of the the thing we were talking about at the start where we're sort of attaching our fears of failure onto pretty much every aspect of the game when it doesn't go our way and it's two nil nil draws in a row now in the league We haven't scored.

45:54We haven't looked like losing, though, to be fair. But when you're in this sort of like, oh, where are the goals going to come from, it feels like you'll never get out of it. And then three, four weeks down the line, you know, you realise, hey, this is a team that hopefully, fingers crossed, we can do it again, is actually scoring a lot of goals and making a lot of chances. Yeah. I mean, I always think back to, what was it, a couple of Christmases ago where we just couldn't put the ball in the back of the net for love nor money against West Ham and Fulham. And then all it took was a week in Dubai and suddenly we were prolific.

46:31And actually, as much as we all believe in the magical properties of Dubai, that was partly just sort of variance and things evening out and players suddenly finding form that deserted them temporarily. Fingers crossed we see something similar here. But yeah, because Arsenal, you know, we do score goals. We do score goals. But then what do our detractors point at? What do they say? They'll say a lot of those are from set pieces, first or second phase. Open play chance creation maybe isn't as good as it could be. Open play goals maybe aren't what they could be. And I think naturally as Arsenal fans, we're sort of defensive about that.

47:15And with some justification, the goal is a goal. It doesn't matter where you get it from. but again I don't think it should be dismissed entirely I think there is something to that you know I think there is a reason people say that about Arsenal and I don't think our attacking I think it's really interesting what Leroy not Leroy Liam Resenia said in one of his first Chelsea press conferences he was asked it was put to him wasn't it that Arsenal were set peace FC and he was very dismissive of it he was like no I'm not having that at all and he went on to kind of praise Arsenal but I thought his choice of words was really interesting he said there he said what did he say I better find it out actually Andrew sure because I don't want to get it I don't want to misquote him he's under he's under fire enough for the memes that he's getting on all over social media.

48:18LinkedIn Liam. Exactly. What did he say? He said, I don't know who is calling them set piece FC.

48:34There you go. I think they are a team that are really good without the ball. I think they have a clear identity on how they want to play with the ball. And on top of that, they are very well organised with good deliveries on set plays. And there's a lot of praise in there, but he doesn't say they're a free-flowing, explosive, attacking outfit. You know what I mean? But we're not, though. I don't think any Arsenal fan, whether you're Mr. Positive or Mr. Negative, would say that's who we are. I think our defence is our superpower, right? Our defense is what primarily, not primarily, obviously, because you've got to score the goals to win the games.

49:15But I think that's what we're built on. We're built on a solidity. And, you know, you want to then put a good flowing attack on top of that defensive platform that you've created. But, you know, I think, yeah, we're not, we're never going to be like a prime Arsene Wenger team, right? That attacks in that way. We're never going to be like that. And I'd like us to be a bit more like that at times. And when you go through a game like that against Nottingham Forest, you kind of get a bit wistful for that kind of expressiveness. But, you know, I think we also look back on some of those times and teams through rose-colored glasses because we'd either had success or we, you know, were not too far removed from a period of success.

50:03But I can remember lots of games where, you know, it's nil-nil and the opposition has sat in and we've attacked and attacked and attacked and attacked and we still haven't found a way to score a goal. Or we've let in a stupid goal because defensively we're a bit all over the place. Who do you think has taken the most shots? Which team do you think has taken the most shots in the Premier League this season? The most shots? I would say, as a guess, I would say maybe Aston Villa. No. Aston Villa are way down I really I'll tell you my thought process there is that I know they're sort of defying XG aren't they by scoring all sorts of goals from range could it be I mean I could make a fool of myself here Andrew but could it be Bournemouth no it's Manchester United yeah 38 goals only two off us So the most shots in the Premier League this season, Manchester United first, 358.

51:10Liverpool second, 340. Arsenal in third with 325 shots. So I don't know what we can necessarily draw from that. But, you know, it is that idea that, you know, the volume of shots or the number of shots you take has an obvious consequence on your attacking potency. City are fourth, by the way, on 309 shots. So, you know, we're not a shot shy team, I think is the point I'm making. We are a team for whom there is room for improvement when it comes to our finishing, I think you would say. Interesting. Can't believe it's not Bournemouth, Andrew. Can't believe it's not Bournemouth. I'll tell you why I said Bournemouth, because I was looking at the goals for column earlier today and I was really struck by the fact they've scored 34 goals in the Premier League this season.

52:07They are sixth, by the way. Man City fourth, Chelsea fifth, 296. Bournemouth sixth with 296. Oh, I feel better about that now. Even though they're 15th in the table, you know, there is something in that. Before we go into the break, Just tell me your sort of gut feeling before you sat down to record your On The Whistle video. What was your gut feeling at full time? And it ends nil-nil. I can only say I felt thwarted. That's the only way I can describe it. That's such a good word. I felt thwarted because I... By what? The universe? Thwarted by the footballing gods? Yeah, I think because probably like many of us, I had actually watched a fair bit of the Manchester derby.

52:52Yeah, I watched it too. They were fucking... With some consternation. I mean, like, I was like, what's happening here? Because it could have been more than two, really. And I don't know, the allure of the nine-point lead, maybe particularly because I think, am I right in saying that a couple of years ago we had an eight-point lead and it didn't work out? So nine felt somehow special. Do you know what I mean? Nine was like, they can reel us in at eight, but nine, which again, I know is not realistic necessarily, but that was how it felt. I thought I'll sleep easy tonight with that nine goal cushion as a pillow.

53:33And when it was taken, nine points, sorry, cushion. And when it was taken from me, I felt thwarted, Andrew. Yeah. I felt massively, massively frustrated, I have to say. and I did take that out a little bit in my player ratings but they're all just made up for fun anyway so don't read too much into it I think it's fine to feel frustrated it was a frustrating game I felt really frustrated because it just was one of those moments where I felt like with City losing okay just go do it just be fucking absolutely ruthless you know take no prisoners just fucking go out and do it and like in my head before the game and I know it was slightly unrealistic given the schedule and what we'd had to contend with in midweek versus Forrest had their feet up and they got rid of Alexander Zinchenko.

54:23So it was a good week for them. I was sort of dreaming of like, you know, one of those, remember that game? It was against Middlesbrough in the Invincible season. And again, listen, this is maybe just me being crazy dreaming, but it was one of those where I was like, Arsenal came out And we were 4-0 up in about 20 minutes. Do you remember that? It was away from home against Middlesbrough, playing in that beautiful yellow and blue kit. And we just stormed into a four-goal lead. And then after that, we just sort of played in second gear and won the game. And I was sort of dreaming of something like that from Arsenal.

55:04As unrealistic as that is, that's where my mind was. So that's my fault. And that might have played into my frustration. But it was also just the idea that we didn't really capitalize on the moment, on the opportunity that was given to us. Because everyone was saying, well, City are playing pregame. They're going to win that Derby. You know, they were probably favorites for that Derby. And Derby games can be strange and weird. And I think that's kind of what we saw at Old Trafford on Saturday lunchtime was just the weird dynamics of a Derby game. And so that's why I just felt really, really frustrated that we didn't make the most of it.

55:42In the end, though, of course, it's a net positive. It's a net positive weekend because City lost and Villa lost and we gained a point. And it's good. And maybe that's where we need to take a little break and sort of examine some of the other issues. Yeah, I mean, it almost feels like a sort of mad disclaimer we have to put on the podcast, which is like, we know we're top. Like, you know, it may sound like we don't, but we know we're top. We know we're seven points clear. We know we're favourites. We know we're in a great position. But we're football fans. So we like to get into the weeds. Like, that's why we do a podcast for a fucking hour and a half, right?

56:29Kind of. Like every game, however dull it may be. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I did enjoy this before we get into the questions because I don't want to sort of rehash it too much in part two. But Jamie Kafash on Blue Sky says, pathetic draw at the weekend. We could only scrape a 1-1 draw at home to Portsmouth thanks to a dodgy penalty from a Perez dive. That's not what champions do. My question is, when is Wenger going to drop Gilberto for Edu? Hashtag ArshcastExtra2003. so totally mate we remember the parade we don't remember portsmouth that is a a good motto for approaching the rest of this season yeah exactly all right let's take a little break we'll come back with your questions and more in part two right after this

57:58Welcome back to the Arsecast Extra. I know, I was going to say, very close to home. When Irish Ars are smiling, as the song goes. And Irish Ars says, Is it true to say that outside of Trossard for a period, none of our attackers have hit form so far this season? And if so, why? Why, I would love to be able to give you the definitive answer there. Is it true? I think it probably is true. And this harks back to what we talked about in part one, where so much of what Arsenal do this season is like at the highest level. Defending, goalkeeping, midfield, organization, structure, discipline, positional discipline, all of those things are basically the highest possible level, I think.

58:56But where we fall short is in our forward line. And this is where I think there is room for improvement. So Orbinio yesterday posted some stats on Blue Sky, which are really, really interesting. Now, I'll accept, or I think we have to just make the point that some of these time frames are a little bit arbitrary, which isn't a criticism of the stats, but just to take that into account. And obviously, some of these players outside of the Premier League have been much more productive, right? Martinelli, for example, in particular, has scored most of his goals in the Cups. Yeah, but that may not be sort of coincidence, you know.

59:37I think Arsenal do have a bit of an easier time of it when it comes to attacking in the Champions League, for example. Agreed. Yeah. Okay, so here's the rundown on the stats. Victor Yacarez, and these are all Premier League games. Victor Yacarez, one goal, which was a penalty, and no assists in his last 10. Gabriel Jesus, one goal, no assists in his last eight. Nani Maduweke, no goal or assist in his last 24 Premier League games. Gabriel Martinelli, one goal, no assist in his last 19. Bukayo Saka, no goals, two assists from his last eight. Leandro Trossard, one goal, one assist from his last seven.

1:00:17and Martin Odegaard one goal and three assists from his last 16 Premier League games. So I think... Yeah, I mean, I returned to my theme from part one. How are we doing this? Like, I think this depends if your glass is half full, half empty. You could be critical of Arsenal's attack and their productivity or you can say... It's kind of remarkable. How extraordinary a machine Michael Arteta has built that they can get the results they're getting without any of their attackers exploding. I mean, I feel like we've said in previous Premier League seasons, if you're going to win the league, someone's got to go supernova.

1:01:02You've got to have a guy who has a kind of an attacker who has a sort of player of the season level campaign where they deliver 25 plus goal contributions. We're not going to have that. I think I saw the lowest top goal scorer figure for a Premier League winner. I think it's 13. Who was that? A good question. I think it was a Man City team. Let's have a look. I saw Alex Howell wrote about it in the BBC. So, yeah. Oh, it's Frank Lampard. in a Mourinho Chelsea team. Okay, that makes so much fucking sense, doesn't it? Yeah, doesn't it? So yeah, that was 2004, 2005. So the year after the Invincibles, the kind of antidote to the Invincibles.

1:01:59When we finished second, yeah. And then actually it was matched by Uki Gondwan in City's 2020-21. Right. Sort of, yeah, pandemic hero. So Arsenal's top scorers right now in the Premier League are Jokeres and Trossard. Both have five. Five apiece. Then you have Saka Rice and Eze on four. Three of Eze's four goals, of course, came in the North London Derby in that brilliant hat-trick that he scored. So, you know, there's 16 games left to play. Nobody's even close to double figures yet. And I feel, I do feel quite strongly that there is room for improvement. but also that we need somebody to kind of catch fire if we're going to go on and win the league.

1:02:46Maybe we can do it in this sort of collective Marxist goal-scoring philosophy that Mikel Arteta has implemented. It has been to come back, as we just illustrated. Yeah. Maybe we can do it like that, but I feel like our chances would be significantly improved if one or two, at least, players found some real goal-scoring form in the final 16 games of this season. Yeah. And I think... Those stats from Albino, they are, while selective, as you say, they are quite extraordinary as well. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the one player I think that I would back to do it is Saka because he's done it before, because he's scored a lot of goals and created a lot of assists as well.

1:03:35I think if Saka can increase his output, he'll increase it for himself and he'll increase it for other people too. So he's the one that if I were to, you know, stick a fiver on and say he's going to be the guy, he would be the one. But I think to varying degrees, you know, there are players who are capable of better. I think Trossard, you know, has had a very good first half to the season and has maybe not gone off the boil, but been a bit quieter of late. Martinelli in the Premier League needs to do more. Jokeres, I know he's got five goals, but we've discussed him. There is Kai Havertz to come back if he can get match fit.

1:04:13Gabriel Jesus, I don't really think is going to be the guy to score a ton of goals. But I do, you know, I think behind them, yeah, Odegaard, maybe Eze, if he can get back into the team, they have the ability to score and assist and to create chances. So, yeah, it is the area of improvement, right? It is the one area that if you were saying Arsenal are not weak at, but capable of doing better in, it is the output from the forward line. Yeah, and don't get me wrong. I see the benefit in sort of sharing the goals around and not having that reliance on that individual. I mean, you know, if we did have a 20-goal striker at this point in the season, we'd be terrified every week they might get injured.

1:04:57At least we don't have that problem necessarily. and the squad is kind of constructed in that way where you know we heard michael arteta speak in the summer about kind of removing the tier system you know trying to create this sort of uh great spread of talent and maybe that's reflected amidst the contributions but yeah i think we're right to expect and certainly hope for more and and like you my if i was putting my money somewhere on somebody finding form and that having the transformative impact it would be on bukayo saka um because there's precedent for it yeah yeah um but yeah it's it is it is it's a strange quirk isn't it of the season where you know we don't have anybody who's banging in the goals and you obviously always associate that kind of player with a team that goes on to win the title.

1:06:00But maybe as Lampard and Gundogan have demonstrated, you don't necessarily have to have it. You still need somebody to get into double figures, though. You know? Yeah. I mean, are goals down generally in the Premier League? I don't know, actually. I don't know. Because I saw something about another 0-0. I saw something like, I think I'm right in saying that there've been like 16 nil-nils this season. Is this right? And there were 18 in total last season. Are goals down? Are defences getting better? I don't know. That might be something to look into for a... So yeah, seven, sorry, forgive me. I was slightly off on the numbers.

1:06:4717 goalless draws so far in the Premier League this season. there were 16 in the whole of last season wow um i i i do think this is a league which is i again i you'll have to forgive me i don't know i suppose we could if but if we were good at podcasting andrew we would look this up right bring me a league f should i do it sure why not leave it to the statisticians i'll do it but this might have to be an edit because i don't know how long it's going to take me okay two thousand years later okay we're back we're back after some mildly successful stat uh chasing by james yeah i mean i listen i know or being you guys it's not my area but it seems that at the title race level premier league goal scoring is down you know if city and Arsenal continue to score goals at this rate, they'll end the season with 78 and 69 goals, respectively.

1:07:50And the last time it was that low at a sort of title race level was a decade ago. Now, look, there's plenty of games to go. That could all change. But at present, it's not a particularly prolific league at the title race level. I think there are teams lower down the league, the likes of Manchester United who are maybe outscoring expectations for a team in sixth or seventh or whatever it might be. Bournemouth, you know, we mentioned would be another. But yeah, at the sharp end, goals are down. And I do think that is a little bit reflective of the league and the season. It is. There is a focus, I think, at this point in time on out of possession set pieces and Arsenal completely excel in those areas so we're actually outperforming our XG a little bit fractionally I think we're basically on the expectation anyway

1:08:59the point is these fuckers just need to stick it in the back of the net a bit more this is the kind of stuff we want to hear Get it in the fucking onion bag. That's our area. That's exactly it. That's our analysis. They can do better. And my hunch is we will do better between now and May. Okay. For the whole of that time or at some point? Yeah. Yeah. At some point between now and May. We'll do better than we've been doing of late, which is still quite good. but maybe not as good as people would like. I don't know. I don't know. It's my question. I did like this one from 1.76 Acres. Three questions.

1:09:51What would make people happy? Being perfect at everything? Would that even be enough? Which I thought was quite funny. We're not perfect enough. We're perfect, but not perfect enough for my liking. it's it's like i said uh we're football fans yeah i mean look a h book said we're title winning seasons in the past filled with frustrating draws and one goal wins with dodgy performances the short answer that is yes yeah yeah there were loads of them loads of the bad just don't remember yeah 12 draws for the invincibles of course that season so too many draws mate it's too many draws got enough draws I mean Joseph Nathan on Blue Sky said we've been trained from previous seasons to look at draws as negative but with teams being so inconsistent this year should we be more positive the Invincibles did have 12 after all yeah you know what it is I think it's the standards that have been set in the Premier League over the last number of years you know where Man City for example made a draw a bad result you know in those title races with liverpool for example like a draw was a bad result even though ostensibly or objectively in in many cases like you can go away from home and draw a it shouldn't be the end of your title challenge but yeah because of the amount of points that they racked up every season to draw was essentially fucking shooting yourself in the foot whereas i don't think that is the case this season i think the as joseph says there the inconsistency that exists in the premier league this season makes draws while not particularly pleasant not as disastrous as as they might have felt in previous seasons you know yeah well look we both said we think saka might be the guy um here is a spicy question on bukayo okay from wcampo 33 on the discord and they say simple question and not asked with any malice is saka worth 300 000 pounds per week no doubt he's elite but at that salary you need to be getting magic moments not hail mary crosses into the box with ese trossard and jesus trying to win headers against giants

1:12:13I don't know. I don't like to assess a footballer's worth by their salary because that's sort of a separate thing, a distinct thing, you know. If Arsenal want to keep Bakayo Saka for the next five years, they have got to pay him a salary commensurate with that status in the team and the fact that there are other teams out there who would most certainly offer him that kind of money if he became available. So that's just the reality of the market, right? He's been our best player for three, four, five years. You know, from the time he broke through, is he producing at the level that we all want this season?

1:12:53No, not yet. I still think he's more influential than people are giving him credit for. I thought he was pretty good when he came on at Forest. I thought he improved us, for sure. Absolutely. I think if you asked Bakaio Saka, you know, is your output where you would like it to be, he'd say no. And I agree. It's not about the salary for me. It's about the status in the team as our first choice right winger, the kind of star of the attack. do we need more from him or any player who holds that position within Arsenal Football Club? Yes. It's got nothing to do with his salary for me though. I think on the salary point, I mean, yes, I think his productivity is not where he'd hope it to be or where I'd hope it to be.

1:13:41And I think it could and should go up in the second half of the season. On the salary, you've got to think, what could he get paid elsewhere? You know, Arsenal are competing with that if they want to retain him. And in terms of like, is he worth it? I do think that as much as I think he's a brilliant footballer, I also think he has sort of an additional symbolic value to the club and to the project. And I think that contributes to making him the sort of franchise player of this team. So I don't have any qualms about the contract for him. I think it's the right decision strategically to retain him and pay what it takes.

1:14:27And I hope his productivity levels come up as well. Because I agree at that salary, you know, you do need to deliver. You do need to deliver. Yeah. You know, so remember when Theo Walcott got 100 grand a week, he was like the highest paid player at the club. And I was like, well, you know, with that money comes the level of expectation. Paying him 100 grand a week, he's got to play like a 100 grand a week player. And if Bakayosaka is getting 300 grand a week, well, you know, the expectation is that he's going to play like a 300 grand a week player. And, you know, hopefully that is something that we see from him and others between now and the end of the season.

1:15:04What about this one? We had a couple of questions on this. If I can find it. Okay. Soundwave 25. on the Discord asks, is Declan Rice's reaction after the last two games worrying? Falling out with Stivenberg recently and after Forrest, he didn't seem to hold back on the pitch either. Is he losing his patience with our lack of finishing and therefore the team in general? Or is this more of a tactical dispute between him and the staff? And AFC Brady says, there's a clip of Declan Rice at full time clearly saying, fucking shit every fucking time. What do you think he's referencing? Our lack of goal scoring prowess or our ability to seize the opportunity or maybe something else?

1:15:48To be honest, I don't know what he's referring to. And I think it's a bit dangerous to sort of analyse it too closely or put too much stock in it. Like, he is a guy who's just run probably about 12 kilometres or something in a very wound-up, adrenaline-fuelled state and is just sort of expressing frustration. I think sort of to extrapolate from that, that he has any sort of serious concerns

1:16:30is dangerous, really, and inappropriate. You know, that's just an athlete venting, I think, at the end of a game. like I mean I don't think you know I saw people say like is it about the referee or the penalty decision or something like that no I think he's just annoyed that they didn't win he's just annoyed every fucking time I guess that refers to like a couple of opportunities Arsenal have had to really ram home their advantage and not not quite been able to take I do think Declan is an angrier man this season largely for, to his benefit. Like, I think he's playing with a sort of, a kind of willful essence, a determination to not let anything slip that has seen him produce some of the best footballers' career.

1:17:27And I think around that, we are seeing a few more flashpoints than we're accustomed to seeing with him. But I don't mind it. I don't mind it at all. I mean, maybe, maybe you could, if you're being critical, you might say it's a bit performative at the end of a game. But I think it's just a heat of the moment reaction, to be perfectly honest. And it probably is about like we had a chance to gain another two points on Man City and we didn't. And that's probably what it is. And if he's upset about that, then fucking join the club, right? Because we all were. Yeah. The Stoufferberg thing, that seemed to be over as soon as it started.

1:18:07Yeah, listen, you know, that was something that happens all the time. Players and coaches and players and players having a bit of a tete-a-tete. There's nothing wrong with it at all. I'd be more worried if that wasn't happening, you know. If that competitive tension wasn't there, I'd be more worried about it. The fact is we caught a glimpse of something in the tunnel that we probably shouldn't have. Or that discussion probably just carried on from the dressing room as they're coming out. Sky got it on camera and it becomes a big, big thing because you don't really see it too much because that shit happens behind closed doors.

1:18:42It happens on the training ground. It happens in the fucking bus. It happens in the dressing room. It doesn't tend to happen in public because they're all smart enough not to give, you know, the broadcasters or the media the oxygen or the opportunity to broadcast things like that. Right. So that's why it became such a big thing because we don't usually see it. It's like when a player strops off down the tunnel, you know. They usually, if they're pissed off, they sit on the bench when they're taken off and then they have it out in the dressing room afterwards, right? And those things happen all the time in football.

1:19:16I think you need it. You can't not have it. And if it's a consequence of Declan Rice or whoever it is being determined or motivated to go better than we have done in the last couple of seasons because they're hurt by finishing second, I think we should embrace it, basically, and recognize that these players are desperate for success as much as we are. And if that means, you know, stepping on a few people's toes along the way, it doesn't mean that, like, Declan Rice and Albert Steubenberger are never going to talk to each other again, or they're sworn enemies now, right? They had a big hug when they came off the pitch in that game.

1:19:58So a storm and a teacup stuff. But I rather see a player annoyed and pissed off because they didn't take an opportunity than the alternative, which is just sort of like, who cares, you know? For me anyway. I'm the same. I'm with you. I don't think we should place too much stock in it. And I think actually that bit of aggro in deck is actually helping him this season. What about this? I mean, we kind of touched on this part one, but it brings in Eze as well to the discussion. David Lynn, it's a goodly-ish morning, gents. Has our best period this season been with Marino and Eze on the pitch? Or am I imagining things?

1:20:42How can we get them back into the side? I don't know if it's our best. I mean, you could make a solid argument, couldn't you, that like over the course of the last few weeks in the Premier League, in a really hectic period of the season, we've come through it really, really well. Has it been enjoyable? Have the performances been brilliant? Not necessarily. you know, beyond the Villa game, I think we've sort of ground it out. But maybe there's something to be said for grinding it out at this part of the season. And that should be recognized as being more positive than it feels, you know. I do feel quite strongly that going back to the Forest game, that this manager could potentially do something a bit different with his midfield for games like this.

1:21:37Like we are January the 19th. We have not seen in any meaningful way Martin Odegaard and Eberreche as a play at the same time for Arsenal in the same midfield. And I think, you know, I get it. We know what his preferences are. And Rice has been brilliant and Zubimendi has been brilliant and Odegaard has been a bit indifferent. I've got a question about him now in a minute. But first versus 17th, do you absolutely have to play Rice and Zubamendi in the same midfield? Could you play one of those as the holding midfielder and lean into a bit more craft and technical quality with an Odegaard as a pair of eights?

1:22:26I do feel like that is something that we could do because the quality is there in both of those players. particularly when you're going to play a team like Forrest who taking nothing for granted, they're not going to try and run you. And actually, Forrest have a very, very, very good midfielder in Elliot Anderson who was excellent the other night, by the way. I've been impressed with him for a while now, and I think he is actually a really, really good player in that position. But they're not going to run through you in the way that some teams might, right? There isn't necessarily that technical quality to sort of open you up right through the middle, which I think maybe Arteta worries about a little too much.

1:23:13And I'd like to see first versus 17th. Let's go and play with those two number eights who've got a bit more creativity and craft than – And this, obviously, we're talking about Declan Rice and his impact and influence on the team. I'm taking nothing away from him. Obviously, the set piece delivery is a factor in his selection a lot, I think. There might be times where Mikel Arteta thinks, I could take Declan Rice off. But, you know, if we need a good corner, he's the guy who can deliver it. But, yeah, that's a way for me maybe to get into the team. not to be, right, we just have to turn up and win, but maybe we have to do something a little bit different in games like this to increase our chances of winning.

1:24:02Yeah, interesting. Would you be amenable to seeing those two in midfield together? Do you think there's a compatibility issue? Do you think it leaves us defensively a bit open or weak? Or am I crazy to think that these two really good players could play together in a way that might also impact what we're getting from our front three. I'd like to see it. I'm not sure if Inter Milan away is the time that I'd like to see it. No, no, maybe not. But like there are games coming out where I would certainly be curious. To go back to the original question about Marino and Eze, did they coincide with our best football?

1:24:41Well, I think they did. They certainly coincided with what I consider our best performances of the season. We had that week where we beat Bayern Munich and Spurs, where I think, you know, that feels like the high point really of the campaign to me. However, I would point out those results and that week are sandwiched by a draw at Chelsea in which we were pretty underwhelming and a draw at Sunderland, which left a lot of people frustrated at the time. So it's not like we were completely perfect in that period. No.

1:25:18I think, you know, we mustn't overlook that they made a big contribution, those players, but also we shouldn't look at it through roadside into spectacles either, just because things aren't necessarily clicking quite as well right now. I do think the SA1 is really interesting. I mean, he got on eventually here, but obviously was second to Marino in terms of coming on in midfield. I think he's struggling for what I would call meaningful minutes. and meaningful contributions. He played, obviously, at Portsmouth, but I felt like that game kind of passed him by. You know, in a midfield with Marino and Ranieri, he was probably the least eye-catching of the three.

1:26:05I saw an absolutely mad stat about Eze and chance creation. Did you see this? No. So, no, another lengthy pause. It was from Simon Collings, actually pointed it out. He said, after 17 Premier League games this season, Eberache Eze has created eight chances. In 34 Premier League games last season, he created 58. So he's not on track for anything like his numbers in terms of chance creation. I mean, listen, I think if we're talking about, you know, Jokere's incompatibility maybe there is a question about Eze and compatibility or where exactly he plays or where exactly he fits into this team because his role obviously at Palace was much more defined in that when Palace needed something to happen they give the ball to Eber Eze and let him do his magic Yeah positionally it was slightly different I mean to bring it back to the manager So on Eze, I've always wanted Arsenal to buy Eze.

1:27:22And that's why I was as overjoyed as anybody that they ultimately did. I never really expected it to happen because I never really saw him as a Mikel Arteta player. I just don't I didn't really see that alignment between their ideas around football and I've got to say actually this summer when Arteta and Arsenal bought Eze and maybe to a lesser extent bought Marueke or bought Jocharez I really thought it challenged some of my ideas about who our manager is and I was sort of very interested to see like the ways in which that would kind of stretch who I, who I think Arteta is as a coach. And I suppose at the halfway point of the season right now, if I kind of take a slice of where we're at at this particular moment in time, actually the, the, the, the preexisting ideas I had about Mikel and the type of manager is type of football we plays, they've been reinforced.

1:28:30Yeah. and Eze's sort of omission from the team in recent weeks has definitely contributed to that and our struggles to kind of unlock some of the attacking talent that we have acquired, you know, makes it difficult to sort of escape the view that my initial instincts were kind of right. Now, obviously, as we've said many times, there's a long way to go and not just in this season, but in the five-year contracts that some of these players have signed. And I have faith and certainly a lot of hope that it will improve. But as a, yeah, I mean, I think he's got to have a chance. I think as a, if we don't see him in Milan, I'll be pretty concerned, actually, at that point.

1:29:25I sort of feel like clearly the team needs a bit of refreshing, needs a bit of renewal. Odegaard did not have a good game. I know you said you've got a question about him coming up against Forest. This is a game that I'm looking at and thinking, surely, surely has it. Absolutely, absolutely. I do have a quick question about Milan and that, which we'll maybe get to, but let's do the Odegaard one then. Well, there are a couple actually on Odegaard. Let me just get them up here. boom boom boom okay uh af 1682 on the discord who acknowledges there are a lot of odegaard questions sorry to add to them he said surely it's time we accept that he is not the same player anymore he was really off form last season i know he had an injury but it was early enough time to get back into form but didn't this season he's had injuries again but been back in the team for ages now he's had two excellent games but other than that he's basically been a passenger since he came back and then there was another question from Benkamp10 who says, good morning gents, I'm concerned about Martin Odegaard as a Norwegian Arsenal fan, I fully understand that he as captain of Norway is looking forward to leading the country in its first World Cup finals in 28 years but to me it seems the injury problems he had last autumn and perhaps the autumn before are influencing his decisions too much is there a weaker jewel player playing in the Premier League he presses well but in jewels he runs alongside and pulls out of all 50 50s i'm concerned that in the premier league or the champions league or both we may find ourselves in a situation where martin odegaard has to make a tackle to either presented or prevent a decisive counter-attack or win the ball for a decisive goal but we'll pull back and think about the world cup am i being irrationally concerned or do you think something similar well look he didn't have a good game i think there's no getting away from that and no you know he was taken off after 57 minutes exactly Right.

1:31:17Along with other players who did not have a good game. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's not producing the end products that we would hope for. You know, that kind of 15-goal season feels quite a long way off at this point in time.

1:31:39You know, we mentioned Frank Lampard, Chelsea's top scorer with 13. At one point in time, those were the kinds of contributions we expected. from Odegaard it's not happening at this point um I think the question touches on a really uh delicate but interesting area around his kind of physical capabilities at this point like if you think about Odegaard at his best we've always marveled at his technical level and his kind of intelligence on the pitch but that was always allied with a really really impressive physical dimension as well like the way that he would get about the pitch the the the work rate the intensity the intensity and and i do feel like the intensity is a bit lacking at this moment and that i think i agree with you and I think it ties directly into the influence he has on games because when he is at his most intense when he is pressing high when he is coordinating those around him he tends to be very influential but he made him the natural leader and the natural choice as captain at that time and I you know do I think the injuries he's had have left him with some after effects very possibly yeah I mean it looks that way from the outside or it looks as if at least looks as if he's still climbing back to his best you know I don't think he's I think to say he's over it I'm not sure you could say that with great confidence so I also think there's interesting things tactically going on I mean I was chatting to Art de Rocher this morning and he was talking about some of the spaces Arsenal are getting their fullbacks into at this moment in time in the kind of, you know, we saw a lot of Jouy and Timbo like very high in sort of inside forward positions almost.

1:33:44You know, and Art said to me, and I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this, but he sort of said, that's where I want to see Martin Odegaard. You know, it's all very well getting your fullbacks into those kind of 8-10 spots. But we need Martin Odegaard in there. Well, at the end of the Forest game, it was William Saliba. who was pressing into that position, who was in that space, which, listen, maybe it's a consequence of who we had on the pitch at that moment in time. But again, I don't think everything is working out as well or working out the way you would want it to. And I think William Saliba is brilliant on the ball, but like in the final third, he's not the creative guy that you want, you know, just sort of on the corner of the box.

1:34:25I think on the left-hand side, we suffered a bit from having no left footer, no natural left footer there, no to Califuri, you know, Jureen Timber. I thought did well enough at left back, but in an attacking sense, you know, it's maybe not his strongest area. And listen, by the way, I just wanted to sort of note this, going back to the Odegaard-Ezza thing. I don't think Odegaard played well on Saturday against Forrest. I did wonder though, if you're bringing Bakayo Saka on, can you lean into the Odegaard-Saka white triangle, which was so effective? Is that not something you could give 15 minutes?

1:35:04And again, Marino came on, had an impact, but I think it's a different kind of impact than you might get from Martin Odegaard. Listen, maybe enough was enough for the manager and he decided that was it, but I would maybe have liked to have seen 10, 15 minutes of that with scope for more change if it doesn't work or doesn't improve in any way. You can still bring Marino on. who came on jesus marino and saka so maybe you put jesus and saka on leave odegaard for another 10 15 minutes if it doesn't happen you still got marino you still got as on the bench if you want to change it you know well interesting i mean that is sort of my when people say like how do we solve this how do we improve the attacking situation i i do think that what we have to do is maximise the relationships that already exist.

1:35:57And like that Saka-Odegaard white triangle could well be one. I also think Kai Havertz might hold the key to a lot of this because he's got a great relationship with Martin Odegaard. He's got a great relationship with Bakaya Saka. I sort of feel like if we can get those three operating together, we might see an uptick but then I'm conscious that's a lot of stock to place in a player who wasn't deemed fit enough to get on the pitch against Forrest you know what did you make of that? what did say again? sorry I just said like what did you make of the fact that we had Havertz in the group but he didn't actually get on?

1:36:43I think it's probably just down to fitness and who might be sharper in the final he'd already brought Jesus on I think if Havertz was going to come on it would have been for Jocares. And if you put Jesus on, it leaves you no real scope to put Havertz on, you know? I'm curious to see what part he plays tomorrow in Milan. Yeah, he's got to get some minutes, hasn't he? He needs them and we need him to have them, so. Yeah, exactly. And it's almost at the point where it's like, if he's going to have a reaction to it, you know, if he's going to have swelling and pain afterwards, we sort of need to find that out.

1:37:19Do you know what I mean? like it's it's only so good protecting him at a certain point in time you sort of ask the question what are we saving him for you know um you don't want to earn a setback or a but but it's natural that returning after so long will be a kind of one step forward one step back yeah process um but i think we've got to we've got to we've got to be on that journey now we've got it we've got to be working towards that because I do think if he can be fit, I really think he can make a positive difference. Yeah, hopefully so. Just to go back to Odegaard to finish us off here, I don't necessarily share the same fear about him pulling out of 50-50s and things like that.

1:38:04I'm not seeing that. I don't think he's like the strongest in the tackle, but he never has been. And I don't think I'm seeing a player who is prioritising the World Cup in January ahead of what he's got to do for Arsenal. No chance, in my view. I don't see that at all. The other thing that I would say is that while I agree the output from him, like others, and I put him in the same bracket as Saka and Trossard and Maduweke and Jokeres, who are capable of more and who need to give us more, I will say that he is the guy who still has the creative spark that few others have in this team. You know, when it comes to actual shot creation and chances, he tends to be the guy who is out on top in that sense without maybe having the assists that come with that.

1:39:03You know, there is, if you look at the stats goal and shot creation, He's basically top of the list beyond Saka and Rice. Saka's top shot-creating actions in the Premier League this season, 79 for Saka, 62 for Declan Rice, 54 for Martin Odegaard. But Saka and Rice take a lot of set pieces as well, which Odegaard doesn't tend to. So I think there is, you know, there's definitely room for improvement there, but there's also maybe a slight dearth of creativity within our team that if you take Odegaard out of it, we're going to struggle a little bit, you know. This is why I'd like to see the Odegaard as a thing, because I think in tandem, there's a sort of technical quality between the two of them.

1:39:48If we can get them on the same wavelength, that could be really useful to unlocking defenses. But, yeah, it remains to be seen if Mikel Arteta is going to go down that road. Yeah, I mean, I don't think they need to be mutually exclusive. And as I said, I think last week, I think when Eze was bought, there was a feeling he would play maybe more from the left than we have seen this season. But if you were Victor Jokeres,

1:40:16which of Odegaard or Eze would you want playing in that midfield three behind you? Probably Odegaard. because I feel like Eze is more likely to take a shot than look for a pass. And that's not criticism. That's kind of who he is as a player. I think that's true. But then equally, I think the proximity that Eze plays with to the centre forward, you know, we always see Ocarez surrounded two or three markers. I think giving him Eze almost gives him a second striker or a player to play off. So, yeah, I mean, I think that's a good point. And actually, you know, if I did have a criticism of Odegaard or the way that Odegaard is being asked to play is that he is not as high up the pitch as we need him to be.

1:41:08I think he's at his best in the opposition half and in the final third. I get that he's somebody who can drop in with the centre halves and take the ball and recycle it and, you know, get us going from the back. Of course he can do that. you know he's technically a very very good footballer is that where you want him though is that where you need him I don't think so I think as well by the way something I should say at this point in time which is kind of going relatively unspoken about is that I think Arsenal really missed Ricardo Calafuri and it's an interesting one because when he was injured it was very downplayed by everybody around the situation um michel arteta obviously as we've become accustomed to but even kind of privately i think there's such sensitivity around ricky and his injuries because of his history um that there's almost a real reluctance to sort of speak about it but he's now missed a fair bit of football right um I don't think he's particularly far off.

1:42:18I'm not saying he's out. You know, I expected it to be four to six weeks when he was hurt. But I just think in terms of, I mentioned not having a left footer in the back line, but also I mentioned getting fullbacks into attacking areas, but them not necessarily being the most dangerous or productive. I think he changes that. I think he lends an element of unpredictability. He gives you an extra runner in those situations. I know it sounds absurd to say a left back's going to solve our attacking problems. I don't, I don't, I'm not saying that, but I just think he is missed. And I think because there was never really any clarity or outcry or public discussion of his injury.

1:43:04I think that's going a little bit under the radar. Yeah, I think that's a fair point. It's a fair point. You know, we've talked about Miles struggling for form. you know, because he, I'm not saying he's an analog for Califuri. I don't think they're quite the same, but we have seen him produce eye-catching driving moments, right? With the ball, which he hasn't really done beyond that Atletico Madrid game this season. That's about the only time we've seen it from him. And Capier tends to be a bit more, he's a bit more traditional as a left-back, right? A bit more up and down the flanks. You know, the Ecuadorian Kieran Tierney.

1:43:40Exactly. Ecuador is the Scotland of South America. So, you know, there's a good reason why that's the case. But I think you're right about Calafiore because he was very, very good. He was really, really good in that period of the season before he got injured. And I think he missed, you know, he was playing probably his best football for Arsenal and he's been missed. So, look, I think we've got to get out of here because this could be about the longest podcast or the longest Arscast Extra we've ever done. But we did have questions about Milan. I don't want to get into it now because we really don't have time, but this is one where I think, you know, you mentioned Eze and his participation.

1:44:19I think this is a game where people with Manchester United on the horizon next Sunday or on Sunday will be looking for Mikel Arteta to, as they say, technically rotate the bollocks out of it. yes to what extent do you think he will because i i i absolutely feel like he will not be able to resist the temptation of going to inter where we lost last season one of the big clubs in europe and just say this is you know this is a chance for arsenal to sort of bolster our european reputation even though this is a game which i think in in terms of the united game is it pales into insignificance given where we are in the Champions League table and what we've got to do in the Premier League this coming weekend.

1:45:08Totally. I absolutely share that view. I think Mikel will go pretty strong, though. I would say, you know, look, Saka and Trossard didn't start at Forest. I would say there's every chance that they'll start in the San Siro. Personally, I would try something different at centre-forward at this point in time. Yeah, me too. I think it's the right moment to give another option a test in a high quality game, whether it's Jesus, whether Kai is somehow ready, whether it's Mikel Moreno. I've been trying something else. I'd really like to see Eze, maybe instead of Odegaard. but I think it'll I think the rest I think it'll be pretty strong though I really do I don't think we're going to see you know a ton of changes I don't think it's going to be a Portsmouth 11 no you know I mean there isn't a great deal of scope for rotation at the back anyway true because we just don't have the numbers but you know further forward I would absolutely like to see a few changes in there a few players given a chance if not for redemption but a chance to give the manager something to think about as he prepares for Manchester United on Sunday okay we gotta go we gotta get this out there to everybody thank you so much indeed for listening thanks for being with us as always we'll have an episode of the 30 for you over on Patreon a bit later this afternoon plenty going on in the Premier League this weekend some fun stuff around the Premier League so we'll cover that at patreon.com forward slash rspod for now take it easy and we will catch you on the next one.

1:46:52Bye-bye.