Arsecast Extra Episode 678 - 26.01.2026

0:12Hello and welcome to another Arsecast Extra as always with James from Gunnerblog James good morning to you morning andrew morning i'm not sure i can muster the good to accompany that that's fair that's doing i'm all right i was uh you know before i started recording i was trying to decide if i wanted to have another coffee a bottle of water or a bottle of gin beside me for the duration of the of the recording i've stuck with water uh to try and keep a clear head but the gin was tempting i will say it's a yeah it's a bit early for the gin it's only 10 a.m it is but that's what they're driving it's only january it's only january we'll need that in april and may at this rate yeah god hello to you know everyone at bombay sapphire who will become our new sponsors for the run-in um i will say how am i i'm kind of i'm kind of worried a bit yesterday worried me a bit um i watched your video your your on the whistle video and i get the sense that that you're also a bit worried or were worried certainly by what you saw yesterday as well and yeah definitely definitely i think it's a defeat which has kind of um scratched at some some old scars you know for arsenal fans and not just because it's manchester united and because of the sort of historic rivalry between the two teams.

1:41But, yeah, it has sort of sowed seeds of doubt, perhaps, that haven't quite been there until the last few weeks. They've been sort of, you know, simmering, like under the surface a little bit, you know, in recent times in the Premier League. And I'd maybe go back as far as the Wolves game as sort of when my spider senses were tingling, but that's not the right way to put it. But certainly I was like, you know, I know since then we've gone on and won games. We beat Everton, we beat Brighton, played very well against Aston Villa, won away at Bournemouth. But, you know, three games now in the Premier League without a win.

2:30And I don't think anyone, regardless of whether your glass is typically half full or half empty could really argue against the sense that maybe something like this was coming. Like this was bad. It was unpleasant to experience, but it wasn't necessarily a shock to me. And I think where I sort of landed at the end of the game, I remember us talking a couple weeks ago where we sort of touched on Arsenal maybe not being quite what we want them to be, you know, in terms of attack and fluency and all of those things. But we said, we don't look like a team that's going to lose too many games. And I think yesterday we looked like a team that was going to lose.

3:22That was the first time I really thought we are, yeah, we've lost that kind of safety net if you like where even if we don't play well you you feel confident that at the very least we're going to get a point and i i even when we went to two yesterday i i it was just there the the the specter of defeat was looming if that makes sense yeah that's interesting it is a kind of uh a fragility that we're not accustomed to that we saw and actually like conceding three goals in a single game um is very very unusual for this team granted two of them are sort of worldies um that can happen i guess but we we did gift them their first and you know i thought tim stillman made an interesting point actually on social media he was saying that you know this is an arsenal team that's never necessarily been particularly fluid going forward, but they've always had this incredible defensive foundation.

4:35And in many ways, that's where they're truly sort of elite performers are, is in the kind of defensive part of the pitch. And actually that, for all our sort of frustration and gripes about, does the attack function, we've started to give quite silly goals away. And that's what's really alarming. is that, you know, the stuff that we're really good at, we're now not doing as well. Yeah. There's a lot to unpack from this game. And I think maybe the first thing we should say is that, well, maybe one of the most striking elements of this game, James, is the fact that I think that until we scored, we were good.

5:19Arsenal were good in this game. Arsenal were in control of the game. we weren't making like tons of chances but we were certainly the team that was on top playing the game more in the Manchester United half playing the passes into their final third there were a couple of opportunities I remember William Saliba I want to talk about William Saliba a bit later actually because I'm a bit confused by where he's ending up or what he is being asked to do at this moment in time um but Saliba pulled one back for Declan Rice if you remember and maybe you could have put it across the box there was a Zubimendi header which was straight at the keeper but was still a good save that was a Declan Rice free kick and we were I think looking quite good until such time as as we scored um I mean the goal do we need to analyze that goal in any great detail.

6:14I mean, the ball comes across from the right over to Saka. Odegaard helps it back into the mixer, hits off Lissandro Martinez into the back of the net, 1-0 to Arsenal. And from there, you're thinking, well, that's perfect. You know, we've got the first half goal. We've played well. We're at home after four away games. Now is the moment where we can settle the nerves, if there were nerves, and go on and assert control in a game where, you know, we've been the better team and and i can't really explain how it flipped after we scored the goal do you have any theory as to what happened is it just like a weird quirk or what what can we read into the fact that after going ahead arsenal basically self-destructed for a period it's difficult isn't it i mean i asked michael alteta i thought it was quite interesting in that He said he felt there were kind of three or four significant errors from Arsenal in that, individual errors really, in that little period after the opening goal.

7:21And his kind of hypothesis was that one sort of leads to another, you know, that each one creates, I guess, a bit of anxiety in the team. And so it kind of propagates the next mistake. I think there's probably some truth in that. It was sort of, I felt like in some ways it was kind of a microcosm of Arsenal's maybe wider sort of psychological issues in this title challenge where, you know, they get themselves into a very commanding position as they did in this game. And it almost felt as if that was the moment at which it sort of slightly unraveled for them. Yeah, it was very, very odd. It was as if they opened the door to Manchester United to welcome them back into the game.

8:11And I think United probably couldn't believe their luck. I think they changed how they played as well a little bit when they went behind. I think they pressed a bit higher. They were a little bit more proactive. But that doesn't explain why we kept, you know, giving them the ball or switching off our concentration. it was a very very odd troubling period and one in which united they went from being sort of like on the back foot to you know their confidence blossoming really and i think we helped them along the way absolutely a shot of adrenaline from manchester united you know it was so weird because i looked at the looked at the stats so until we scored we'd had 60 possession we passed the ball at a success rate of 85%.

8:59After the goal went in, our pass completion success rate went down to 65%. So we're not doing the basics. And we didn't do the basics. United got in behind. There was that chance for Mbwemo, wasn't there? I mean, that's crazy, that 65%, by the way. And actually, it got worse because in the first part of the first half, or the second half rather, when United came out and we'll maybe talk about it in a bit more detail in a sec, that pass completion rate slipped to about 46 % in the opening five, six minutes of the second half. But this is where I find it really difficult to understand a team with the technical level that we have.

9:43Whatever you can say about our attacking issues and lack of fluency there, the very least we have is really highly technical, competent players on the ball. who, as soon as we scored, couldn't find a teammate, kept giving it away. You know, it's hard to think of a tactical reason for that. It's hard to think of a technical reason for that. You can only maybe think of the pressure of the Premier League in the title race suddenly enveloping these players. I don't know how to explain it. I don't know that there's any rational explanation for it. Well, I'm with you in that I just keep coming back to the idea that this is a psychological thing.

10:37And I think that sort of Jekyll and Hyde performance and it turning seemingly on the goal aligns with that. And I also think the fact that this team looks so different in the cup competitions, so much more at ease, so much more commanding and then you put them in the Premier League over the last three games and suddenly that authority diminishes, evaporates. And I think it's impossible to escape the conclusion that there is a kind of psychological pressure component to all this. I mean, can I quiz you on that for a second? Because I think, you know, before the game, I was thinking that, you know, whatever way you want to look at what happens in the Premier League, I think there is a difference to how teams approach playing Arsenal in Europe and in the Premier League, right?

11:29Yeah, I agree with that. Do you think that yesterday United played in the typically frustrating way that we've had to encounter in the Premier League? Or do you think that this game, by virtue of the way that it swung after the equaliser and the way that they went ahead, I kind of think that this was a bit more of a European-style game than a Premier League game. So I think that idea that, okay, we're being stifled by the opposition, the way that they're approaching the game, has a lot of merit in some Premier League games, but I don't necessarily think that that applied to yesterday. No, I don't think you could say that they came and played in the fashion that Wolves did for 80 minutes at the Emirates Stadium.

12:18I think they struck a good balance between collapsing in to defend, but also offering a threat. And in that period, between their equaliser and probably our equaliser, frankly, they exhibited some pretty good play. I mean, they were creating opportunities, creating openings, moving the ball well. They looked comfortable. A bit like when Liverpool came here a couple of weeks ago and, you know, they had little spells of possession. So, yeah, I don't necessarily think, I think it'd be overly simplistic to say they came and just sat in a low block and that was it.

13:03Yeah, I do think there is this kind of sort of psychodrama around Arsenal and the Premier League title. So I think you can feel it in the stands. I think you can see it on the pitch. And I, having got in front, you know, Umbermo went through, didn't he, almost within seconds of the restart. It's like immediately a sort of chink in the armor was exposed and it just felt like we slightly sort of crumbled. Yeah, yeah. It seemed to unsettle us because there was another chance when we were just sort of caught in our heels in the box. It came for Bruno Fernandes. I think Saliba just dives in and gets the tiniest little touch on the ball as Fernandes is about to hit it.

13:49But he was kind of recovering an error in some ways because he lets it go. He then does brilliantly to recover it, as he invariably does. But even that was a nervy moment. Yeah. And the goal then that we gifted them. Like, I don't think the pass from Saliba to Zubimendi is brilliant, but I think you have every right to expect a player of the quality and experience of Martin Zubimendi to be able to deal with that and to lay it back to David Raya properly or pick another option if he felt like that pass was a little bit too difficult. It's just a really bad mistake. There's no sort of going around that, is there?

14:31Yeah, it's reminiscent, isn't it, of Gabriel at Bournemouth a few weeks ago now. and yeah, just a big error. I mean, there's no excuses really for Zubimendi. We all expect better of him in that situation. Watching it back, I do sort of wonder where Declan Rice is going. I'm not sure his run is particularly helpful, but that doesn't explain what follows. It's just a kind of really poor, as we've been saying, really poor piece of technical execution from a player who ought to be much, much better. and Bermot punishes us. And by the way, I thought he was a threat all day, and Bermot, I mean, it's interesting, Sliba and Gabriel, think about the types of centre-forward that really work them hard and give them trouble.

15:21You might imagine a guy who's like, you know, six foot four and Erling Haaland type, but actually I think they handle that very, very well. I think Bermot's movement is willingness and ability to receive the ball back into them and turn. I thought he gave them more problems than most strikers we've faced in the league this year. Yeah, I think that's fair. I did get that stat wrong a bit earlier, by the way. It was the period between their equaliser and halftime where our pass completion rate dropped to 46%. So you can make a mistake. It's not ideal, obviously, but it's how you react to that mistake, of course, that is the big thing.

16:01And I suppose if you're a bit rattled, you get in at halftime, you have some words discussions you know put into place whatever you want to put into place for the second half i was just about to type on the live blog that the start of the second half reminded me of the second half against liverpool where we were waiting for arsel to come out and respond and to really kick on because we you know there have been times this season in the premier League where we've been really good after the break, but this was another one of those where the United were cognizant of that, whether we were still a bit shaken, whether they just had a really good period on the ball.

16:43I think, you know, over 80 % possession, you know, in the period before they scored. I don't know what it was, but that response was not there in the immediate aftermath of the mistake or indeed right after halftime. No, no. And obviously they get the second goal. And yeah, I mean, look, stunning goal. I mean, you know, I'd love to take away from it. Stunning finish. I will certainly say that. And some nice play in the build-up where I think there's like a combination of the ball breaking and bouncing kindly for Manchester United and Arsenal players not doing enough to cut out the danger in midfield, which was a feature of the day where we were bypassed a bit too easily in central areas.

17:39Well, that was really interesting because it wasn't just what we were doing on the ball that seemed to change. It was what we were doing off it. I mean, in that first 20 minutes, not to heart back, but I was struck by the fact United just couldn't play through us. It felt like our shape, our structure was so rigid and strong. And then that kind of shifted as well. And suddenly they were finding gaps in between the lines and creating little overloads. And that's what happened on this goal really, where yes, there was a bit of luck about it, but they played through the middle of us, basically. And if you look at both their second and third goal, There's like a pretty speedy interchange of sort of short one-touch give-and-go movement through the middle of the pitch.

18:27And we struggled with it. And actually, like, it's something we don't really do very much of at all. Not enough of, for sure. Yeah. I mean, the finish is brilliant. No, we can't take anything away from that. He absolutely hits that perfectly off the underside of the bar. Raya's beaten all ends up. I do wonder if Martin Zubimendi should have just continued the challenge with Dorgou. He was running side by side with him and he pulled up and appealed for a handball, which wasn't a handball. And I just wonder if he'd been there to apply a little more pressure. You can see right at the last minute, Trossard tries to sort of throw himself into Dorgou to try and put him off, but it didn't work.

19:11I mean, it's a brilliant, brilliant finish. No two ways about it. But I think when Arsenal look at that goal and analyse the way we were played through and analyse, you know, how we competed, once we were played through, we were found wanting, you know. I think that's fair. And actually, I saw that more than once in the game where an Arsenal player appealed or looked for a free kick where, you know, the whistle didn't come. and actually they ended up sort of losing possession. I saw that two or three times and that is a bit frustrating and disappointing. But there you go. So yeah, immediately after halftime, I mean, we're behind.

19:53And yeah, if it was tense in the stadium before that, well, it went up a level. Yeah. So look, I think we had like a half chance, didn't we? Was it a corner that was cleared not far off the line? Yeah, kind of off the line sort of effort. I mean, it looked like corners were going to be the way. I actually thought Lamont's did pretty well for United on most of them. Obviously, there was one major exception coming up later. But, you know, we were carrying a lot of threat in those situations. And then, well, maybe to amplify that, I don't know, partly to amplify that, Nicolai Teta makes a raft of changes, a quadruple sub.

20:46You'll have to forgive me. I'm sure someone listening will remember. I can't recall seeing him do that before. Not in a Premier League game or not in a game where, you know, a cup game and you know we're playing lower league team and we're sort of ahead by a distance even that's yeah not with these kind of stakes in no um i mean was it last week where he made basically four changes there was one at halftime and then a triple sub so it's four before the hour again How do you feel about that? I, yeah, I feel like four changes is too many changes in one go. If they work, people will say, wow, decisive management.

21:38He took off players who, to varying degrees, I think were underperforming. But if it doesn't work, and I'm not sure it really did work, and in fact one of those changes in particular not necessarily the player who came on but the way it shifted the team i think was an actual impediment to performance then you're going to get criticized and i think as well you know there's four subs on 58 minutes feels more desperate than strategic right for a manager who you know we know is into the like micro analysis of everything a manager for whom people say does he make subs quickly enough etc etc i just think those subs imbalanced the team and the players who came on bar michael marino obviously who scored a goal didn't really do anything to change the dynamic or make us more threatening or increase our performance levels.

22:43You know, it is a real, it's a kind of a Hail Mary, isn't it? It's like take four guys off, put four guys on. I can't ever remember really seeing that from Arteta. I can't really remember seeing it too often in Premier League terms. or if it has happened, it's because, you know, the manager is desperately trying to change something and he kind of feels, well, this is the only way to do it rather than make, let's say, incremental tweaks where you could make a couple of changes. And if that doesn't work in 10 more minutes, you can make another couple of changes. I just felt it was a bit desperate.

23:23I don't know what you think. Yeah, I mean, it certainly says this ain't working. changing nearly half the outfield players suggests something's going very wrong. I mean, he must have been incredibly disappointed, I think, in what he saw after the restart. I would imagine having gifted United a goal, having let them back into the game, you know, we know we've had the privilege of seeing via documentary cameras what Mikel Arteta can be like in that dressing room. I would imagine there were some pretty stern words. And when the performance didn't respond, when it didn't improve, he felt he had to ring the changes.

24:02It's one of those where I don't want to be a hypocrite because I think in the past, occasionally, I've been critical of Macau and said, is he a bit conservative with his substitutions? Could he be more aggressive in those situations? And he is trying to do that here. But yes, it kind of felt like a more is more approach and I'm not sure that was necessarily right. You know, it wasn't so much fine-tuning as kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Yeah. I mean, look, maybe we weren't going anywhere in a hurry, Andrew. So I'm not saying, you know, if we kept those players on the pitch, I'm not sure we would have been any better off.

24:44But I do think it does speak to a sort of lack of... a lack of faith, I guess, in what was out there. Sure. Which I can understand, by the way. I don't think anybody could have looked at that performance and said, well, let's leave all those guys on for the rest of this game. I just think sometimes four is a lot. And one of the issues I think we had was we moved Shuri and Timber over to left back. and that blunted us, I think. You know, I love Timber. I think he's a great defender, but I don't know that Timber at left back really gives us the sort of attacking threat that we need. No, and it's interesting, isn't it?

25:30When Riccardo came in, I don't know if you remember way back, it would have been this first transfer window, January 2020. I mean, there was a lot of emphasis around that time about kind of getting left footers into the team. Pablo Marie was signed, if you recall, and striking that balance so that Arsenal could build up and offer kind of a variety of approach play. And yeah, I think Timber going forward from that left-hand side, obviously his instincts are so much to come in field. He doesn't necessarily stretch the play. So that was a bit of a worry. a worry and I thought we saw that from Timber at Nottingham Forest.

26:12My overall feeling about the subs is like, I think it told you how big this game was. To make that many changes at that point, it felt a bit desperate. And I think that sort of betrays, I think it shows that the manager knew what was at stake here, how damaging a defeat could be. What do you think the message that sends is, let's say, to players, but also maybe to the fans who are watching in the stadium? Is that proactive, decisive management or does that sort of increase the anxiety? Because it's so out of the ordinary and so unusual to see a manager who is maybe this side of the conservative line, generally speaking, right?

27:05to sort of throw caution to the wind. Some people might say, well, about time, you know, we've got to, you know, we can't carry passengers. We've got to change things up. But I do wonder if it's sort of, it could be counterproductive in a way. Yeah, I mean, I think if you're inclined to believe or to feel that Michel Arteta's not yet sort of come up with the alchemy, the formula to create a functioning attack from the many elements he has at his disposal, this really felt like a guy just sort of shuffling the deck for the sake of shuffling the deck. You know what I mean? Like there wasn't anything particularly coherent about the combinations and the relationships that were deployed, to my mind anyway.

27:55Sorry, just having a drink of gin here. Yeah, no, I agree with that. I agree with that. I also have an issue with the Madweke. substitution as well. I think, listen, hindsight is 20-20, right? But I think putting Maduweke on the right and Saka on the left essentially

28:20nullified Bakaio Saka's involvement in the game. Yeah. I also think Maduweke was actively bad when he came on. Oh, man. And as someone who talked him up in a big way after the Portsmouth game and how much I enjoy watching him, I mean, I suppose part of that is that you have to accept the rough with the smooth, but there was a lot more rough and smooth yesterday. There really was. There really was. And I did wonder, like, you know, you have Gabriel Martinelli there. Maybe there's a physical issue we don't know about. Maybe he just fancied Madueke over Martinelli on the day. I guess managers don't really explain their workings to that extent but you know Martinelli was a guy who got us a goal against Manchester City when Manchester City were playing the lowest possible block in that game at the Emirates earlier in the season you'll remember it was Martinelli who got on the end of I think it was a ball from Eza wasn't it and got us an equaliser in that game and I just feel like if you're looking for a goal I know he hasn't really done it in the Premier League this season but generally speaking, he's scored.

29:27He's nearly in double figures for the season. And at that point, we needed a goal, at least one goal. So I did wonder why it wasn't Martinelli on the left. Keep Saka on the right-hand side. Or if you are going to put Maduweke on, why not play Maduweke on the left? Why not do something that the opposition don't expect? Do something that's a little bit, if you're going to make four subs, why the fuck not put Madueke on the left and let him run and let him try and stretch the game in a different way? I don't know. I was going to ask you, do you think he felt the need to flip Zaka because of what happened at full-back?

30:10Because he now had Timber at left-back, did he feel the need to have a left-footer in front of him, someone who could offer width on that side? They're both left-footers, you know, Madueke. Oh, yeah, no, I mean, it could well have been Madueke. And quite why sort of Madueke on the left has entirely gone away, I'm not sure. Because do you remember in pre-season we saw it a fair bit and a lot of people felt, I think he came on at Old Trafford actually in that position, and a lot of people felt we might see a lot of him there. It hasn't transpired, I guess, because of, you know, the improvements in form from Trossard and Martinelli.

30:45But yeah, with Timber at left back, yes, they might have been a time. I mean, it didn't work, did it, switching Saka over? This is the thing. I have sympathy with the manager because you're trying to change it and you're trying to make calls. And if it comes off for you, even if there's a bit of fortune in that, you get a ton of credit. And if it doesn't, you get a lot of criticism. I do just feel like there wasn't, I think I said after the Forest game about the relationships and the combinations and not necessarily feeling like Mikel knows the right formulas in his attack. I'm not saying he's got too many options at his disposal.

31:28I think that would be sort of crazy to say. I think it's been a huge benefit to have that degree of depth at his disposal. But I do think one consequence of it is that it feels like he hasn't quite nailed plan A, plan B, plan C. Yeah, I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is either. And I guess we saw that, you know, we didn't talk about the starting lineup, but we saw that in the starting lineup in that, you know, he made the change at nine today. Yeah. I was okay with that. You know, after I thought Jesus played very well against Inter, I was okay with Jesus starting this one, but he was poor and Jacarese put himself about a bit when he came on, but wasn't any better.

32:12You know, Odegaard was poor as they came on. wasn't any better you know Saka was okay Trossard really faded I thought he was very bright in the opening 20-25 minutes I was gonna I was just about to text you at one point and then I forgot or got distracted by the actual game I was gonna say I think you know Trossard in those opening 15-20 minutes was really lively and I felt like you know this might be the kind of game where he has a has impact, but, you know, he faded. You know, we don't have the firepower. We don't have the creativity at this moment in time. We probably have some questions about that.

32:50So we might leave that discussion to part two to see if we can parse what exactly is going on there. But, you know, we did get ourselves back on level terms. It's a corner. Comes in. Surprise, surprise, yeah. own goal and you know corner um are our leading scorers i guess but you know we made it count and we got ourselves back in the game and michael marino was there to put it home from close range the ball went over the line it was cleared but but clearly went over the line so it's 2-2 and that's again a moment where you're thinking okay well here we go at least we've got a point from this game you know we haven't played well it hasn't been good but we haven't been beaten maybe maybe maybe we can do like we did Newcastle away for example and find a late winner and we actually have quite a track record of late wins over Manchester United in the last few years so you're kind of thinking oh maybe maybe maybe but the lead didn't last very long no no um I mean it was another instance, wasn't it, of Noni driving at the right-hand side and just overran it, basically, dribbled it into touch.

34:09And then United go straight up the other end. Again, would you be critical of the way we defended that area in front of our goal? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, just to sort of go back to the Madueke thing, you know, he does basically all the hard work, gets himself into the box and then clobbers it out for, a goal kick. And it was quite interesting to hear Mikel Arteta reference that a couple of times in his post-game stuff. Did he? Yeah, I think he did. Yeah. I'll see if I can find the quote now in a second. And you can see at the back post, Bukayo Saka is sort of there at the back post. If that ball comes across, you know, he's got a chance to score and he's got his hands on his head.

34:52You know, it's a moment where, you know, we had the chance to make something happen for ourselves. and instead, like 30 seconds later, we're behind. Yeah, Arteta said in the next action, Nani is 1v1 in the six-yard box. You don't get anything out of that. It goes to a goal kick, one pass, win the duel. Cunha puts in the perfect angle. We lose the momentum, et cetera, et cetera. But yeah, I think, yeah, I mean, those are fine margins. I don't know if you'd call it fine margins, but, you know, those are moments where, you know, in a game like this, you've got to do better than Marweke did there.

35:30You have to. You know, that's your job. And listen, he tried. He came on and he ran and he was busy, but he just did not have any end product at all. And that's been kind of a story of his season in the Premier League for Arsenal. When the goal or goal kick is taken, I don't think we win the header. I think Sesco. Tesco wins it, gets it down. It's Lieber's behind him. And then Marino's bundled off it. Rice is a bit too close. I don't know. You know, again, it's that little one-touch stuff. I think there's like a little nutmeg through Rice. But, you know, all of a sudden we have four men behind the ball.

36:16United have one, two, three, four men as well. And like our midfield, Marino's on the floor. Rice is on the turn. Eze's there Madueke's there all in close proximity and you know again it's a great hit from Cunha he kind of uses Gabriel as a shield doesn't he and hits it very well yeah beautifully done I think Declan Rice bear in mind he's playing as the kind of number six in this shape by then and maybe gets a little bit too drawn in Cunha's got far too much space really for a player of that quality there's even a pass on as well out to I think it's Ahmad on the right hand side if he wants to take it but no need, bends it in the far corner I've said before you're not really supposed to celebrate in the press box but I did sort of slide onto the floor in desperation That's not celebrating, that's whatever the opposite of it is Yeah, one of the opposite of celebrating collapsed into Karl Anker on my right.

37:22And it was a real gut punch of a goal. But you knew that was it though. You know, you knew that we weren't going to come back from that. I'm sorry. This is a team that's demonstrated a lot of character, a lot of mentality. You know, this season and previous seasons, there was a never say die element to the way we play. And that's evident in all the late goals that we've scored, But we didn't have a shot after United went ahead in the seven, eight minutes. United made the injury time quite sort of scrappy, which is exactly what you should do. Yeah, so you went down about five times, didn't they, in the space of five minutes?

38:00Yeah, Dallow went down. But that's what you do, and that's the position that you put yourselves in. You can't really complain about that because we would do it, and we have done it. So there's no moral high ground to be on here. But that was it. You knew that was it. And you knew that we were going to lose at home for the first time this season. Which, you know, we're talking about concerns and worries. And, you know, we do have to say we're still top. It's the disclaimer portion of the podcast. Exactly. We've got to do it every week. Let's just pre-record it, Andrew, and then we can just bang it on at the end of part one.

38:39Do you know what I mean? The thing to say, James, we are points clear at the top of the table. I mean, just like drop in the number. I'll just record one, two, three. You know, it's, I get it. And we are, this is not fatal. It doesn't have to be fatal, but you know, this is like last week we could have been nine points clear and now it's four, you know, and those are less, that is a lot less, you know, and, and that's where I think, you know, a lot of the anxiety comes from. um coupled out with a bad performance coupled that with an ongoing issue when it comes to attacking potency and goal scoring and i think people are perfectly entitled to be frustrated angry worried whatever it might be however you react to this i think you can acknowledge we are where we are and that's good but i don't see any problem whatsoever in being fucked off with yesterday's result on top of you know what happened at nottingham forest last week as well which wasn't good you know on top of another nil nil at home which was admittedly to you know a liverpool side who played very well in the second half you know you can look at these last few weeks in premier league terms and think you know we're we're we're holding the door open for the others you know that's where i feel or that's how i feel about it that's it i i you know i can be rational enough to say you can lose a one-off game especially against a team with quality attackers who are on a bit of a high a bit of a new manager bounce score two wonder goals really i can totally accept that but it's also impossible for me to look at this game in isolation I do think it's part of a bit of a pattern across January in terms of our Premier League performances.

40:41And actually, it kind of troubles me, this disparity between what we're seeing in other competitions and what we're seeing in the league. It just feeds into this idea that the weight of expectation, the pressure is beginning to impact our performance. And I don't have the kind of sense of dread or anxiety that maybe I have had in quite in previous seasons. Because when I look at the rest of the league, I don't see another team as yet who seem capable of putting together the sort of consistent run that will be required to take this title away from us. But what worried me about the United game is this fear that we could somehow prove our own undoing, that we can be our own worst enemy.

41:44The amount of people I saw you say it and people have said it to me before that they feel the only, well, not the only, but the biggest impediment to Arsenal winning the league this season is Arsenal. and whether that weight of, you know, everything that we've talked about, the long period between winning the Premier League and now and the three-second place finishes and the, you know, I don't think anyone can question the motivation or the hunger or the desire of these players and this manager, but that in itself comes with, it's a lot to carry, right? It's a lot to carry. And I think you need, in a title race, in periods like this where, you know, it's happened before.

42:32I saw someone quote the blog this morning. Let me just see if I can find it here on Blue Sky. Beautiful groan on Blue Sky. He said, let this be the Blackburn moment from 97, 98. And if people can remember back that far, there was like a bad defeat, I think, at home to Blackburn. and there was a sort of a team meeting, a consolidation, you know, where some home truths were spoken. And I kind of feel like this is a moment where something like that needs to happen now from an Arsenal perspective, where something fundamental kind of needs to change with either the way we're setting up or the way we're being asked to play for us to sort of find a spark again.

43:16I think what's happened is not atypical at this time of the year. Sam Dean, I don't know if you saw this, the fifth consecutive season in which Arsenal have had a winter slump.

43:31Where, yeah, we found it hard going in December and January. And that's been the case, certainly in Premier League terms over the last couple of weeks, right? But we have to find a way through it. And I think that's also been coupled with a period where the attackers are not producing anywhere near enough. End product goals and assists from our attacking players are way down on where they should be. And that's a problem to solve for the manager as well. Absolutely. And, you know, it's funny, Amy Lawrence, we spoke this morning and she mentioned that Blackburn gang. but for me the slightly absurd thing is that I remember being at that Blackburn game actually it was a really horrible one but we were trailing in the league at that time we were trying to chase down Manchester United and failed to close the gap I think by losing that one what's kind of crazy arguably about this situation I still currently find themselves in is that they are four points clear but i think because of the history the trauma as we've talked about um the desperation to win the fear that that produces alongside it we're kind of we're sort of uh manufacturing a crisis moment almost at a time where we're in theoretically a commanding position do you know It's sort of like it feels worse than it is, I think.

45:07It's sort of like aligned with the game yesterday where we're in control and we resort to chaos after United equalise or after we score, rather. And I think this is a moment in the season where we have to make sure that, okay, maybe it's been in the post and maybe this has been coming and maybe this is, I don't know, a wake-up call or a kick in the arse or whatever way you want to call it. But there has to be a reaction now to this. There has to be something from the players individually, collectively, from the manager, because I don't think, you know, yesterday anything was good enough. Individual performance is not good enough.

45:48Collective performance is not good enough. The way the game was managed from the sidelines, not good enough. And that can happen. Football, it's weird. It can happen. But I think what we need to see is an immediate response to this. Because it's not too long ago, only a couple of weeks ago, everyone's talking about Arsenal as favorites for the title, da-da-da-da-da. And you can see how quickly things change in football and how quickly the mood can change, how quickly belief can evaporate, all of those things. You win a couple of games, two, three, four games on the bounce, and you start scoring some goals.

46:26and it changes again and you change that momentum. And you're always going to go through a difficult period in the season. I think we've gone or are in a difficult period right now in Premier League terms, but it can't last. We have to shake ourselves out of it. You know, that is the reality of going for a title. You've got to be able to respond to these setbacks and you've got to be able to lift yourselves and you've got to look at big players, experienced players, high quality players and get more out of them, expect more from them, expect more from themselves and fucking stand up and be counted and show that you want to go and win the premier league.

47:06You know, this is where I think it's imperative. Like midweek is a kind of palate cleanser, right? Against Kyrat where I know he's got a couple of suspensions, so he can't necessarily rotate as much as he might like, but Saturday, is it Saturday or Sunday against Leeds? Saturday, I think, against Leeds. We've got to go to Allen Road, which is going to be tough because they've been in decent form, away game. It's going to be loud and noisy and hectic. We've got to just fucking show that we have these title credentials again. And it's got to be evident in the performance. Totally agree. And I think if you're looking for signs of optimism, signs of encouragement, Arsenal have responded really well to setbacks already this season.

47:50You think about the defeats at Anfield and Villa Park and the runs that we were able to put together after that.

47:59Hopefully, they can do the same here. And we reflect on this at the end of the season as a wobble and a blip in an otherwise really successful season. But there is something going on, I think, currently with this team in the Premier League. And you're right, Mike Arteta needs to get a grip on it immediately before it does some real damage. Yeah, I agree. I think we should leave it there for part one because there's a bit more to chat about in part two. So we'll take a break and we will come back with your questions and more in part two right after this.

48:43Welcome back to the ArseCast X. This is part two of the show where we answer the questions that you send to us on bluesky at gunnerblog.bsky.social and at arseblog.com. Also on the Arseblog Discord chat server, which you get access to if you are an Arseblog member on Patreon. I'm going to go first, if that's okay. Macho Grande. I'll never get over Macho Grande. He said, did we lose more than three points against United? Did we lose some aura? I think so. I think so. I think when you concede three goals at home, there is a bit of a ripple effect around that. I think that's sort of slightly, I mean, look, we're not doing it every week, but I think it slightly diminishes the kind of the fortress aura that we have built around the Emirates.

49:38And bear in mind, we're not lost there in the league for a long time. Oh, they were showing the stats on fucking Sky. Right. When Arsenal score first, there's only one outcome. Arsenal score first, 24 times, Arsenal win. And I was going, you fucking, I know what you're doing here. Not to blame Sky for our own failings, but it just felt a bit typical that that was brought up. Yeah. I mean, so I actually think sort of, again, to bring it back to psychology, I think the most damaging aspect is, is, is that really is I certainly, certainly, you know, speaking to fans and engaging with fans online, it has opened up old wounds.

50:27It has created or augmented fear among supporters that we've seen this, this horror film before and it doesn't have a happy ending. and I suppose this sort of, the worry is if that reaches the players or infects the players in some way.

50:55And, you know, whether they begin to sort of question themselves because for so much of this season, it's looked like, you know, they really have that unshakable belief and determination that this will be their year. if that comes under threat if that is jeopardised obviously like you know that could be a real problem yeah can I follow up then because there were some questions about the atmosphere and you were there so you can answer this obviously in a much more informed way than I could mixed Meza on the discord he said the atmosphere is so anxious and tense in the stadium it carries on to the pitch do we need to take more responsibility as match going fans to help create a positive atmosphere, difficult though it may be.

51:46And Ace Ventura 85, there's a sequel I haven't seen. He says, or they say, is the crowd becoming an issue? The sense of tension and fear is palpable. Loud moans and groans fairly constantly. It feels different to 22, 23 when the crowd would get behind the team when we went to goal down or behind a player that had made a mistake. Obviously, the reasons for this are pretty clear and understandable. But do we as fans have to change our behaviour so as not to affect the team on the pitch? I think this is really interesting. I can only give my account from where I was in the press box, which is obviously on the side behind the tunnels.

52:29I can't speak for the atmosphere where you all were when you're listening. But I found it striking that, so before kickoff, they gave it the light show and the build-up hype video, which I thought was good, actually, about, you know, how this fixture still matters, because I know it still matters to me. and before the game like when North London Forever was being sung it was loud, it was really loud I was thinking, I don't know if that came across on TV but I was like, it's a kind of you know, red and white hot atmosphere in here and but I did feel that as soon as the game started tension crept in and even in that first 20 minutes I felt there was a nervousness among the crowd and particularly obviously when United are gifted their equaliser in the fashion that they are.

53:30And one thing we were talking about on our meeting this morning at The Athletic was, do you remember when William Saliba gave a goal away in similar fashion, a big, well not similar fashion, but it was a big individual mistake, wasn't it, against? Leicester Leicester? I think so I can't remember but it was against somebody like that and the whole stadium after a sort of brief stunned silence sort of rose with a roar of defiance Yeah, it was an own goal against Leicester Right, right and I I don't think that's how the stadium answered Zuberman's mistake yesterday. That's not what I saw from where I was sat.

54:22Let me put it like that. And I think that tells a story really about a change that has happened in the ground. And I think the expectations are the primary thing that's shifted in that time. You know, at that time, Arsenal were sort of plucky underdogs in any sort of title race. I think most people were kind of hoping for a Champions League qualification, if I recall correctly. But now the expectation is we need to win. We have to win. It's kind of win or bust, really, as far as the title is concerned. Yeah. And I think that impacts atmosphere. and it's not to be critical of supporters because I don't really know who could be immune to that you know I think it's natural to to want and need us to deliver and to be and to be desperate for it and to be desperate for it and for everything that and for that to come with a certain degree of anxiety i i totally understand but i but do i feel that it may create an atmosphere that is not necessarily the most conducive i think potentially yeah certainly it's what it's what a lot of people are saying to me in the ground like when i'm in the press room a lot of media tv media journalists are saying to me this crowd are edgy and it's not helping yeah i i'm sort of torn on this one because it might be unhelpful but it's a perfectly normal human reaction i agree you know where three years of coming so close has as you say lifted expectations but also i don't know it's like an itch you can't scratch right and things become less rational when there's an itch you can't scratch you lose your fucking mind you know so i i think you know the ideal scenario is, you know, this sort of, there's my chair nearly breaking, but this utopian ideal of what football supporters should be and how they should behave, right?

57:06The team is playing poorly and 60 ,000 people come together as one collective with backing and support and that rouses the lads and the players respond and they, you know, they dig out a performance and everyone goes to the fans with the 12th man, all that kind of stuff. Right. But that's not how it works, really. That's not how it plays out at Arsenal or pretty much anywhere else. You know, the reality is, I think, that fans, when they go into a game and as you said, you know beforehand it was loud and the song was sung and and i think in that opening 20 25 minutes you know we were good the crowd was good but ultimately they respond to what is happening on the pitch and if what is happening on the pitch transmits to the fans worry and anxiety and concern and, you know, things that cause us to fear the worst, then it's just perfectly normal for people to behave that way.

58:17And I'm not talking about, you know, people booing at the end, whatever. It's not to do with that. It's to do with how the energy within a crowd can change because of what happens on the pitch, because of the way the players are playing, because of the performances they're putting in. That is the key driver of how loud and fun a stadium is or quiet and miserable a stadium is. That's what it comes down to. Well, they're the professionals. Correct. They're the professionals. Yeah. So, you know, the onus absolutely is on them. And, you know, I think that the tension in the crowd and the tension among the players did create a bit of a sort of vicious cycle during this game.

59:13I do think there was a sense in which they sort of began to feed each other. But should they? You know, should, I think it's fair to expect the professionals to maybe handle that better. But equally, yeah, I think it's an interesting question on the fans. And it's like you say that this utopia, is that plausible? Is it realistic for fans to sort of after so long, after waiting so long and coming so close to be, you know, patient and understanding in the moment, especially when I think all the sort of signals around Arsenal say it's about winning like I think the summer that they had the amount of money that they spent the squad that they built the type of football that they play the margins they exploit everything is geared to win and that is kind of the message I feel as supporters we're sort of being being given almost that it's like we're about winning now.

1:00:28Yeah. So when that doesn't happen, you know, I think people are going to be disappointed. Do you think, you know, there is a stylistic issue as well that, that, yeah, the football, like if it's designed to win and you grind and you grind and you grind and you grind in May, amazing, fucking brilliant, right? We are champions and it's overdue and we've all waited for this for, so long, who gives a fuck how we got there in the end once we got there. But I think while you're experiencing it, there's a sort of attritional nature to the way that we play games, as we often said, this season in particular, tend to be tighter than you would like.

1:01:13One goal victories, lots of those which are not good for your heart or your blood pressure or anything else. that the other concerns that we talked about when it comes to goal scoring and players being below par, our attacking players being below par, maybe it's a case, James, that like all of our attacking and creative players have lost form all at the same time, which would be, you know, bad and a hell of a coincidence. But maybe as well, there is something about the way that we're structured or the way that we're coached or the way that we're playing that makes being top of the table maybe a bit less enjoyable than you might think, if that makes sense.

1:01:59Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I mean, I don't think we have particularly attractive football to fall back on. That is for sure. And it's great when what we do works. You know, you won't find anybody complaining.

1:02:43it was interesting at 2-1, We were, and certainly a lot of people walked out at 3-2. And I think that maybe colours the coverage a little bit. But I didn't hear, you know, booing on a wide scale. But what I did see at 2-1 was like quite a lot of people sort of getting up and giving quite a lot of stick to the bench. And again, they are individuals, but it is sort of emblematic of some of the frustration that was kind of bubbling over in the course of the game. and yeah I think I don't know man it's a really the stylistic question is a really interesting one I think the reality is it's different for everybody like for me personally I do I do wish we played more attractive football like that is important to me I am you know whether I like it or not I am a a child of Arsene Wenger I grew up in his reign and with his ideals inherited.

1:03:51So that does matter to me. And when the results aren't there, it is maybe a bit kind of underwhelming the way in which we play. And I think I grew up in a period watching Arsenal where they had sort of quite a lot of, sort of slightly odd sort of moral high ground in football where they didn't necessarily win, but they had key ideals and principles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was a kind of satisfaction or gratification you could take from that irrespective of outcome. And I'm not necessarily sure that those hold at this point in time. So you better win, basically. That's it, yeah. Yeah. But again, that's only speaking for me.

1:04:36And everyone, you know, you get tons of Arsenal fans who grew up on George Graham and they're like, We love this. You know, we love this way. Yeah, but I mean, you know, people forget that until he did go a bit defensive, Arsenal did play some very good attacking football under George Graham and had some really exciting flair players under George Graham. And obviously he took a bit of a left turn along the way and we became more defensive. But yeah, I'm with you. I think when we win, it's great because I love when Arsenal win. And I also think this is an Arsenal team and we have players who are capable of a lot better than we've seen of late.

1:05:19Like whatever concerns we have about individuals or the collective attack, I think there is more quality and talent than we've seen of late, right? that it's not completely out of our wheelhouse to play some decent attacking football. But right at this moment, and maybe since December, apart from that Aston Villa game, it has felt like a real, real slog in the Premier League. And every week you're going, this is the day where we need to just sort of put in a performance and show everybody. And it hasn't really happened in the last few weeks. so I don't know I don't know I've kind of lost my point here but I do think that the lack of flair or excitement to our game means that when days like yesterday happen they feel worse well Andrew I mean magic moments it's a it's a it's this kind of buzz phrase Mikel Arteta has used quite a lot this season looking for players to deliver magic moments.

1:06:29I mean, Manchester United had two yesterday. And when we look to our guys to produce those magic moments, in the Premier League right now, they're not really happening. No. Yeah, and that's difficult. There was a question on that actually from JS Fitzy on the Discord. He said, Arteta often cites needing magic moments to win tight games. Why do you think we've had so few of them? And what would you like to see to resolve it? So just please, on this podcast, solve all our attacking problems, James. That's all we ask. Oh, mate, I don't know where to start. I mean... Do you think something needs to change with the composition of the team or the structure of the team?

1:07:23I think I would quite like it to. I think I would like it to. I think, yeah, for me, for me, it would. And actually, we talk about the attack a lot. But I think there are times when the midfield three, the whole front six, I don't think is quite right. Yes, I agree. I was going to say about the midfield three, I mean, you know, Zubamendi, good signing, Declan Rice, fantastic, Martin Odegaard, not at his best at this moment in time, I think it's fair to say. I think it's a weird one as well. In that opening 20, 25 minutes when we were good against Manchester United, Martin Odegaard was good. He was as good as anyone around him.

1:08:17But as soon as we went off the rails, he just could not exert any influence over the game. And I'm not sure that trio clicks in the way that we need it to. And that's kind of where I would be looking if I were the manager to make some kind of a change. The problem is Declan Rice never played for Rels Osiedad. You know, if you want to play in midfield for Arsenal, you need to have played for Rels Osiedad. Get him out there on loan. Get him there, exactly. A four-week loan. We get him back, it'll be fine. With Odegaard, I am sort of struggling to work out what he is supposed to be in this system.

1:09:01like for me good Martin Odegaard is making decisive contributions in the final third and that can be pressing high winning turnovers helping regain possession but it's also playing those click crosses to the back post finding through balls in tight spaces for or Ben White or whoever it might be on the overlap. It's taking shots. It's scoring important goals. I don't really... Listen, I'm a layman. I'm not a coach. I don't really understand how we're using him at this point in time. I feel like when I see that right-hand side, often I'm seeing full-backs as number 10s. I'm seeing them picking up the position inside forward.

1:09:51I'm seeing Odegaard deeper and deeper. And I think it's not getting the best out of him and it's not massively working for us. Yeah, I think he's struggled for form. Yeah. I think the position as captain puts a bit more spotlight on him than on maybe some others. Yeah, I mean, he's been taken off for the hour mark, is it? Right, in each of our last two league games. Yeah. I mean, listen, I don't think, as I said, I don't think Eberreche Eze was any better when he came on. No. I think that Eze is, you know, hopefully he'll start on Wednesday and we'll see a bit more of him. But so far, there's been a lot of focus on Victor Jokeres, and rightly so.

1:10:45But I think we actually spent more money on Eze. And at this point in time, that wonderful, beautiful Derby Day side, I would say broadly, it's not really working. No, I agree. We're not getting out of him what we should. Personally, this is a bit tangential, but I would be looking at getting as a, perhaps back on the left-hand side. I feel like that one mistake switching off for Matty Cash seems to have had, for me, too big an effect on our selection policy moving forward. And I think if we're worried about him defensively, to me, it doesn't make sense to go, we'll take him out of the front three and put him in the midfield three.

1:11:35Because I'm not sure he's good enough, really, both ways to play as a number eight in this team. Yeah. So I would be, you know, we've got defensive-minded fullbacks, someone like Pierre Incapier, or even if you ask Califuri to sit in, it's not really his nature, but he could do it. Can we support Eze to be playing that left-hand side in a different way, in a way where he can get closer to the centre-forward? Yeah, I mean, this is kind of where I am with what we need to do. We need to do something differently. I don't think we can just keep doing the same thing and expect it to click. I think we can look at these players and say they can be better collectively, individually.

1:12:14But I think if you don't do something to change the dynamic of how you play, you make it much more difficult for you to get out of the rut that you're in. If that's, you know, if rut is the right way to call a team that's four points clear at the top of the table, you know. Here we go with the disclaimer again. I mean, there's a couple of things I want to ask you about. One is William Saliba, who I see time and time again in games popping up on the corner of the opposition box. Yeah. In the position where, typically, that was where we saw Martin Odegaard. And I'm wondering why that's happening.

1:12:58Is that an instruction from Mikel Arteta? I think in the last couple of weeks, we're seeing William Saliba carry the ball forward quite a bit from defense and end up in positions in good positions, in good possession, but with all due respect to William Saliba, who I love and think he's amazing, I want a creative player on the ball in those situations, on the corner of the opposition box when they're sitting deep. I don't think it's right or fair to ask William Saliba to be the guy to take on that creative responsibility when he's got a difficult enough job to do at the back. no I mean there was that moment in the first half wasn't there where he was kind of played in on the overlap and I think I sort of instinctively thought it was Julian Timber maybe or Gabriel Jesus in that position and then I realized it was Saliba he tries to tuck it back for I think it was Declan Rice right and it was cut out but he's kind of I mean listen he's a wonderful footballer he's probably the last person on the team I would want in that spot you know it'd be between him and Gabriel basically um and Mikhail spoke about this a bit on Friday about Saliba adding layers to his game adding new dimensions new things and this sort of driving out of defense and taking up attacking spots seems to be one of those but like I don't mind the driving I don't mind the running with the ball or carrying it forward it was actually a brilliant run from Saliba by the way that set Matueke free for the ball he should have put across the box, but instead clumped down for a goal kick and United scored from there.

1:14:38But, you know, he sort of wasted brilliant work from William Saliba. But what I want to see from Saliba in that situation is like, okay, here's somebody who can progress the ball, who can be a link to getting the ball to those attacking creative players. Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I think it comes back to that point about Odegaard, you know, not necessarily being in the best areas. But equally, and I don't wish to make this entirely about Martin because I think a number of players in this team are underperforming right now. You know, how much faith would I have in him to execute in those areas right now?

1:15:17I don't know. Maybe that's fair, you know, but I think get him in those positions with greater frequency and you increase the chances of something happening from there. I mean, the other thing I wanted to ask you about was speed of play and the narrowness with which we play. Because, you know, if we talk about Odegaard and is he performing where we need him to be? No. But we've talked about Jurian Timber playing in that sort of more inside right position this season, right? So Timber tucks in. When he gets forward, typically, he tends to be the guy who tucks in inside Bukayo Saka rather than overlapping Bukayo Saka.

1:16:04It's not that he doesn't ever do it, but he doesn't do it as a rule. On the other side, there was a moment, and I had to go back and watch it this morning because it struck me during the game. 24th minute there or thereabouts. We play the ball back as we do to David Raya. David Raya plays a pass to Declan Rice in midfield. It sort of breaks that first United line. He then plays a first-time pass to Piero Incapier, who's out on the left wing. And again, that breaks the United lines. And what I'm looking for here, what I want to see from my left back is maybe a bit more drive down the outside. So we stretch the opposition, you know, And our tendency is, in that situation, and this is exactly what happened, Incappier received the ball, had a look, didn't fancy running at Dallow, played it back, we recycle, we come back inside.

1:17:00And I think with Saka, it's a little different, because I think he does tend to go on the outside quite a lot, to good effect, with his right foot. He can do it, and he does it often. But on the other side, our left back, if it's Incappier, He doesn't make those runs on the outside, not often enough. Trossard is a player who likes to come back into the middle internally. If it's Calafuri, who knows where the fuck he is? He's in center forward, maybe. And I think we make games too slow and too narrow. And I think if I'm looking for something to change, it is using the pitch. use the full size of the pitch with players who do have the ability to run.

1:17:45I don't think it's out of Incappier's wheelhouse, for example, to just be a little push and run. I know it's a bit industrial at times, but that feels like something that we're missing because we just don't take the opportunities to stretch the opposition in the same way that they seem to make us turn back towards our own goal. Yeah, I think that's all fair. and obviously we make that problem worse when you switch Timber over to left back yeah just on Hincapier I'm the jury is very much out for me on on Hincapier I mean if he was called Peter Hinchcliffe do you know what I mean I feel like yeah perception of him as a player would be pretty different like to me what he offers particularly going forward I know it's a decent ball from him in the build up to our first goal but I think he's quite a straightforward fullback.

1:18:43And I guess there's a time and a place for that. But when I think of the times sort of Kieran Tierney would get criticised for being maybe a bit one-dimensional, I don't necessarily see a ton more variability or adaptability in Caprio's game at this point in time. I think that's fair. There's a jury still out for me a little bit as well.

1:19:10but it will, you know, it will be made permanent in the summer. So, you know, the jury have got, they're going to have time always certainly to, to deliberate on that one. I didn't see a question specifically about this, but it occurred to me, we didn't touch on it in part one. So I just want to ask you quickly about a couple of potential hand balls. What did you think? So there was one, I saw a lot of our fans asking for one against Dorgou. No. About Bilotra's goal. No. I agree. I think it hits his hip. And then the Maguire one in Pantheon. Maybe, maybe, you know, but I sort of feel like focusing on that is the wrong thing, to be honest.

1:19:50That, you know, we have, like he's sort of on the stretch and it hits his hand and you've seen them given, I guess. But listen, I remember Martin Odegaard committed a much worse handball at Old Trafford a couple of seasons ago and got away with it. So I don't know. I think we've got bigger issues than whether a sort of handball from Harry Maguire could or could not have been a penalty. What did you make of it? Well, yeah, I mean, I was quite surprised about the Forest one last week not being given, and I was a little surprised here. I mean, the explanation, I think, was that it was a supporting arm, you know, for a sort of natural movement to block the ball.

1:20:35I guess that does track, but yeah, I feel like I've seen them given before potentially, but who knows? Yeah. I agree with you that it's not the most interesting part of the game to break down. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what you think about this. This is from Jay Wilby. He says, more than 150 million spent on our attack in the summer. Jokeres, Madueke, Eze. Other than just providing depth by staying fit, have they added anything? Yesterday, we started the game with Leo, Jesus and Saka. Would we have been better off with less depth and more quality? Well, it depends who that quality was or who was available, right?

1:21:25Yeah. I mean, you know, if it had been Alexander Izak, he would have had the same late start to the season and potentially injury problems. potentially. I don't think you can devalue that depth. I mean, it is worth saying that depth has saw us through a bit of a, an injury crisis in the first half of the season. Equally, I think it is fair to look at all of those individuals and say, have they lived up to their billing? Have they delivered against expectations? I don't think they have. I don't think they have, without wanting to sort of reopen the discussions on Jokic again. For me, he's been disappointing.

1:22:11It's a good clearance, though, at the end. Oh, Jesus. To be fair, I actually think this sub-role suits him. He came on and he pushed Lissandro Martinez round a bit. And I think that freshness against tiring defenders in both Milan and against United has shown that there could be some... But the issue then is you have to start... Yeah, Jesus, he's got to be better than he was yesterday. He's got to be way better than he was yesterday. He was really poor as well. Like I said, apart from the derby, hasn't really given us what I thought he would or is capable of in Madueke.

1:22:57Well, expectations were less high, I suppose. He were less high, but I still find him very frustrating as a player. I think, listen, he scored a brilliant goal in the Champions League the other week, but in the Premier League, he's barely played. I had a look at his minutes. He's only played like 500 minutes in the Premier League this season. I know he can say hasn't got a goal or an assist in the league this season but I think he's only it's only 500 and something minutes in the Premier League he had a significant injury as well yeah of course he was out that's true he missed six games with injury three games he didn't even get off the bench how many starts seven starts and most of those were at the start of the season when when Saka was out right so I think yeah it's I think it's an interesting point about the squad building like Arsenal have built this incredibly robust group with great great depth and that has been a success and I think it's put like a very solid floor on the performance level and you know the fact that we can make four changes at the hour mark and be bringing on top players is some statement.

1:24:27But I do think when you look at the business on an individual basis, you know, no one's going to argue that Zubemendi's been a great success. I think Moscair has been one of the pleasant surprises of the season. But individually, yeah, I think there's still a lot of question marks. Yeah, it's one of those when you assess the summer window with a bit of time, you know, because the thing about signings is we all, I think, hope for the very best version of whatever player it is we've signed, right? Which is normal. I think that's the right way to look at a signing. When a player comes in, even if you have reservations, you want them to be good.

1:25:10You know, you want them to be effective and to bring something to the team. but I look at the window. I agree with you about Mosquera. He's been great.

1:25:26Zubimendi has had a couple of brain farts but generally speaking has been very good for Arsenal and I like him a lot. Christian Norgard hasn't really played. Nkappie, jury out. Kepa, backup keeper, fine. Eze hasn't delivered what we thought. Maduweke hasn't been good enough. Jokeres, all the conversations around him, you know, the window takes a slightly different shape, you know, and listen, we could reassess in May and we could say, actually, it turns out, look, you know, when he did this, he did that, he did the other, that those signings have really come to fruition. But I think right now there is, as we said last week, room for improvement from the signings, But also the incumbents, right?

1:26:18Also some of the players who've been there a while, I think we can certainly expect to get more from. Yeah, definitely. What else you got, Andrew? What else have I got? Listen, there's all the ones about, you know, the players who haven't scored goals and I don't really have the answer to any of that. Can I ask that? Do you have any time for the argument that it's kind of a function of the league and the style of play that's prevalent at the moment. So, you know, outside of Haaland and maybe Thiago at Brentford, people are generally finding goals difficult to come by. It's not a league in which attackers are necessarily thriving.

1:27:05There probably is something to that because, you know, the tactical approach, the general quality of player in the Premier League is so high. you know? Yes. And the sort of structure and defensive rigor, I think is, you know, football has fashions and seasons. And I feel like that is what's in vogue at the minute. You don't get too many teams or any teams really that aren't very well organized, very well disciplined, very fit, you know, able to play the 90 minutes, the money on offer, or the money that you get from being in the Premier League allows you to build decent squads from pretty much the bottom up.

1:27:49I know there's a couple of exceptions this season, but generally speaking, I do have some time for that argument because I think it is weird. I was looking at stats this week or this weekend for one of the blogs, and Haaland and Igor Tiago are the only two strikers in double figures so far in the Premier League this season, which is, it could be normal. It feels like an anomaly to me. But what I did find striking, while accepting that this might well be an issue with the league, was that when I looked at the stats on the Premier League website for the leading goal scorers and the leading assist makers, you know, on the first page, there is no Arsenal player in either of those categories.

1:28:33So I think, you know, you can say this is an issue across the league and it might well be, but I don't think that's divorced from a sort of level of underperformance from Arsenal players who should be capable of better or more, if that's the right way. Yeah, I think that's totally fair. I think that's totally fair. I don't know. I think we probably should leave it there for this one. I don't know that there's much else. I mean, I don't really know. there's nothing more to say particularly. You know, it's just a, it's a bad one. It's a bad one. It's a painful one. It's one that feels like, yeah, it's got to be a turning point basically.

1:29:23Correct. Yeah. Or a line in the sand rather than a turning point. You know, it's got to be not quite a rock bottom, but that kind of moment where, right, that's not good enough. top bottom top bottom i think that might be a lifestyle choice i'm not sure yeah no but i mean and listen i'm i am conscious of kind of the absurdity of that i've said it's got to be a turning point with four points clear but it's because we're we all know how this goes we've all seen this movie before and we we can't allow this fragility to to fester and it isn't just one game it's been creeping in certainly over the last three results but as you point out i think going back a bit further than that our performance level we haven't played to i think close enough to our potential i don't expect us to play to our potential every single week particularly in a period of the season where it's so busy so frenetic but i think we're going to have to be closer to it if we're going to see this through yes yes i mean february is a quieter month isn't it so it is and listen shorter but quieter and i i still think let me be absolutely clear i still think we're going to do it and i like man city's fixtures in february are genuinely pretty tough like they they you know they've got a bad record at spurs they go there then they've got newcastle in the cup liverpool away you know they've got spurs have a bad record at spurs though that's true well this will be the true test of how much of an Arsenal fan Thomas Frank really is yeah yeah yeah if you can somehow arouse first victory over City like I and I have conviction that City and Villa will continue to drop points and I think I think we are the best team in this league I just think we need to play a bit more like it yeah yeah hopefully hopefully we can turn things around from here or, you know, right the course, steady the ship and go again.

1:31:35Right. We'll leave it there for now. As ever, thank you very much indeed for being with us, folks. Hope you enjoyed the show and as much as that is possible after a bad result, but sometimes just chatting about it and listening is cathartic, very much the case, I have to say. I don't need the bottle of gin right now, James. So that's a good measure of progress from where I was when we started this one. Join us a bit later for an episode of The 30 over on Patreon recapping all the weekend's Premier League action. I fucking don't really feel like doing that, but we're going to do it anyway. It's patreon.com forward slash arseblog for now.

1:32:12Take it easy, and we will catch you on the next one. Bye-bye.