Arsecast Extra Episode 690 - 13.04.2026

0:00Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Abnos, senior sports editor from The Guardian. And whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, reporters on the ground with all the big teams, and the legendary Football Weekly podcast, The Guardian. Bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more.

0:43James McNicholas: hello and welcome to another arse cast extra as always with james from gunner blog james badly morning to you you can't make me do the podcast andrew i can i can't make me with i will Please, Andrew. There's got to be a way. Can't we just go back in time? Listen, you're contractually obliged. I know. Your agent did the deal. Can't it just be Adé morning again? Please, we're going to be 12 points clear. Oh, I wish. Genuinely, I wish. A do-over would be good, wouldn't it? Listen, Andrew, before we get into this podcast, a very important question. Okay. Have you brought your dinner? It's a big podcast.

1:36Bring your dinner. Bring your elevenses. My afternoon snack. Bring afternoon tea and a midnight feast. It's a big podcast. Yes, I'm set up here.

1:51James McNicholas: My sustenance is a bottle of sparkling water from Super Value, a supermarket chain here in Ireland. And that's all I deserve. Just water. That's it. Nothing more. But I think we'll turn up. We'll try and turn up. We'll bring our various dinners and sandwiches, picnic baskets, the whole lot. We'll be here and we'll do it. Yeah. We discussed recording earlier. We were like, should we record on Sunday, in the morning? And we were like, no, we'll wait for the city result. Because, you know. You never know. We might get, that might change the tone. Mm-hmm. And I would say it has changed the tone a little bit, but not in the direction we were hoping for.

2:43James McNicholas: No, that is true. That is true. I think it was a sensible decision anyway, because had Chelsea not been useless cunts, then potentially the mood of this podcast would be different. You know? I think if we'd recorded yesterday morning, it would have been a, you know, irredeemably difficult podcast. So just on that, what is it now then? It's just difficult. Okay. It is redeemable. That would have been irredeemable. So it is slightly redeemable. We're cold light of day. We're Monday morning. You know, this is a big, big week ahead. there's no question about that but it comes off the back of what was a really fucking dismal weekend like really really bad and i think it's it's quite interesting how

3:34James McNicholas: i think we've said before about how when something goes wrong for arsel it tends to scratch at old wounds right those wounds have been opened up with a septic cutlass and the goo and the ooze and all the scars have been opened. And it has had a, I think, quite profound effect on many Arsenal fans. You know, I know certainly that this was, I will say, as down as I have felt all season. And we've had some bad results. We've had some bad performances. But this felt really, really bad. Like as Mikel Arteta said, a punch in the face, whether it was a kick in the bollocks, whether it was a super wedgie from your school bully, whatever it was, it hurt and it resonated as well, you know.

4:30James McNicholas: So, yeah, that's kind of how the weekend has gone for me. I don't know how you felt exactly. I think you said on your video, sound the alarm, which is maybe a more poetic way of putting things. But, you know, you can still crawl over to the panic button after you've been kicked in the bollocks, you know? Yeah, I think my... It's incredible how one game or one weekend's swing has impacted the mood generally. it was extraordinary to see in the sort of hours after the full time whistle on Saturday before even City had played to be honest the manner in which belief dissipated it was like you know when you see in a movie a window get smashed open in an airplane and everything just gets sucked out it was like watching the belief kind of disappear through that window it was it was pretty dramatic and i'm sure many people have kind of leveled out to an extent since then but yeah it did open those wounds with a rusty old sore yeah and left people feeling pretty pretty gloomy and understandably i mean i do think you know we will try to be to show proper context and to find you know causes for encouragement but also this was a really bad performance at a really bad time with a really bad outcome and i to a certain extent i think there's just no hiding place from that no i agree and i think however anybody feels is is perfectly valid in the wake of a result like that and the implications and the way momentum feels like it's going you know so i'm certainly not here to tell anybody they should feel great we still have it all to play we do still have it all to play for of course but that's something we can reckon with a little bit later in the week i think now we're here to talk about what was a really poor performance as you said a bad outcome um there were elements of our performance which were worrying because they're not they didn't just happen in isolation you know there have been signs people have said in recent weeks the way we've been playing has not been good and since just before the international break we obviously lost the cup final we lost to Southampton we were in Lisbon and had a wonderful moment right at the end of that game but it wasn't in any way a performance that we were all like waxing lyrical about right but we got a win and a win of course changes the complex of everything and how you feel and then you lose the next game so form and the way we've been playing all of those things play a part in how people are feeling about what what happened on Saturday I suppose we should start with the team and the the players that Mikel Arteta had available to him and some of the players that he didn't have available to him There was no Martin Odegaard.

7:37James McNicholas: Eberachie Eze on the bench, but not deemed fit enough to start. Piero and Capier on the bench. Riccardo Calafuri not on the bench. No Jurian Timber. So he went with Kai Havertz in midfield. And he went with a front three of Nani Madueke, Gabriel Martinelli, and Victor Jocherez. which is to my mind sort of like a toothpaste and orange juice combination in that front three it just really has never worked and I understand how his hands were tied with injuries but you know it is one of those where when it doesn't work yet again you're sort of questioning well is there anything else he could have done with that team selection yeah I mean we've had this discussion about this exact front three before.

8:35I think Nottingham Forest away was one such occasion where he picked this front three and it just didn't work. And there were alternatives. You know, he could have worked Kai Havertz potentially into that attacking lineup. He could have played Leandro Trossard, maybe an outside chance of Max Dowman. It just doesn't really click. And that to me is a bit of a, I don't know if blind spot is fair, but I do think Mikel, when it comes to the sort of the chemistry and balance of a front three, I do think that's an area where he sometimes struggles to get it right. And it almost feels at times like the amount of options he's got at his disposal hasn't helped him.

9:21I think it's almost made it more difficult for him to achieve that balance at times this season. and so yeah that concerned me my heart sank a bit I've got to be honest when the line-up came out because in Odegaard and Califiori you've got two players who have had this significant history of injury problems and you think ah we're just getting them back at the right time for the run-in and then we lose them again yeah yeah it's really really frustrating I think Mikel Arteta's frustration was palpable, to be honest, post-match in the way he spoke about the injuries. At the same time, wasn't willing to provide any sort of, or able to provide any sort of update.

10:08So we're a bit in the dark on those guys.

10:10James McNicholas: I mean, I was worried about Odegaard when he went down in Lisbon, when we saw him sit down on the pitch and we were like, oh, that doesn't look good. So I don't suppose it's a big surprise that he was missing. But of course, having just got him back, it's really disappointing. I think Calafiore played the 90 minutes in Lisbon. We don't know what's happened there. I mean, let me put it to you a bit like this, though. You know, with that front three of Martinelli, Jokerez, and Matuweke, you could make the argument it is not the most technical front three that we could put out. I'm not banging a drum for Gabriel Jesus because I don't think he's been anywhere near the kind of player that we want him to be.

10:50James McNicholas: But I do wonder if in a game like this, If you have, particularly with Havertz in that midfield role, maybe that's an option that you could lean into a little bit more. Is Arteta, or should he expect a little bit more from that front three? Despite the fact that maybe the combination isn't great, despite the fact that maybe they're not the most technical, is there a right to expect any more from them in terms of their performances and what we got from those players on Saturday? or is it simply down to him not recognising that this is a combination that doesn't work? I think it's fair to expect more.

11:28I think it's fair to expect more. I think if, you know, let's take Maduweke, for example. England International, we paid£50 million for him. You know, I think it's fair to demand a higher level of performance, a greater level of consistency. I think all three of these players, maybe less so Jokeres of late, but have struggled for consistency across the season. You know, Martinelli's campaign has kind of been divided into cup games and Premier League games. Well, what that tells you is every other game is not very good, you know. So I think it is fair to expect more. But I think there were fundamental issues in this performance, which, to be honest, inhibited the level of impact our attacking players could make.

12:23I mean, we didn't get that far too often.

12:26James McNicholas: Well, yeah, there's the thing. I mean, Martinelli made four passes in the 55 minutes that he was on the pitch, you know, and three of those passes were backwards. Two misplaced passes were backwards. He made one forward pass in the entire 55 minutes that he was on the pitch. So I'm sort of with you in that I think, despite the fact that I don't think that combination works, I think we should expect more from those players. And I think we can come to a period later in the game when certainly that is the case with the centre forward. But where I think it is interesting is the way Bournemouth set up, and everybody knows this, right?

13:12James McNicholas: We talked about it on the preview podcast. They press high. If we know this, Mikel Arteta knows this. So how do you set up your team to deal with the high press? You know, you can play, you can be confident with the ball at the back, and you can play it into midfield. And there were one or two occasions, for example, where that happened. I think there was one really brilliant pass from David Raya into Kai Havertz in midfield where we bypassed their press completely. And Havertz and Martinelli were not on the same wavelength, mixed it up. The ball was lost. And that was a chance maybe for us to sort of try and find a little bit of momentum in that regard.

13:51James McNicholas: But we couldn't really find a way to play through the press, which is I'm not sure it's a new kryptonite, but it's certainly a kind of kryptonite that we've had to deal with of late. But then we're looking at, okay, if you're not going to play through the press, can you play over the press? And we have in Victor Jokeres, and this isn't to be critical of Jokeres because I think we all know this about him. He is not the kind of center forward who is going to win jewels, hold the ball up, play with his back to goal, bring players into the game around him, right? take it hold it up hold it up knock it left knock it right and we can work off that kind of fulcrum further forward what we had i think was an idea of maybe hitting it towards kai havertz but kai havertz didn't really win too many of those jewels and then what you had was a midfield to zubamendi and rice so far away from havertz that even when we got the ball there was no real cohesion in that area of the pitch either yeah yeah it was very disconnected and i and i think worryingly that carabel cup final game seems to provide a bit of a template for teams in terms of you know where they sit how they press um effectively often just giving arsenal the ball at the back and saying go on then pick your way through that and we are struggling to find solutions right now.

15:21James McNicholas: It's mad because we used to be so good at that. We used to be so good at knocking the ball around at the back and then finding that progressive pass into midfield from where we would pour forward and cause the opposition problems. And it's kind of, I don't know if it's a personnel issue, a confidence issue, a tactics issue, whatever it is. But I think in the sort of stodginess of the football that we play at this moment in time, it's hard to remember that that was kind of the foundation of what made these Mikel Arteta teams quite as good as they were. That confidence at the back and that ability to just keep possession, move the opposition around and bang, at the right moment, get it forward into midfield and go from there.

16:08James McNicholas: And we just cannot do that at this moment in time. No, and when we do, or when we did on Saturday, as you mentioned, the execution for the next phase of play wasn't there. So there were a few occasions where we did manage to kind of bicep the press and get the ball into midfield, but then the next pass went astray. We really struggled to sort of put together significant sequences of passes in this game. Our technical level was pretty poor. And yeah, you know, I don't think we... Mikel Artetto afterwards said we did a lot of strange things. I mean, I think he'll be pretty exasperated at how poorly we actually executed any sort of plan.

16:54and Bournemouth you know one thing I I think needs to be factored into assessment of this game is that they did come into this substantially fresher than us I mean you could say Rusty you know they hadn't am I right to say they hadn't played for about three weeks in a competitive game whereas we'd you know we'd had an FA Cup tie and a Champions League tie to navigate I mean the hope is there Rusty

17:22James McNicholas: You know, that's your hope as an Arsenal fan, that they're rusty, but actually well-rested would probably be the best way of putting it. Yeah, and I think you saw that in the sharpness of their press and how quickly they closed us down. I also think that it sort of created a kind of vortex within the stadium, really, where, you know, every time that ball goes back to David Ryer, as I think it did 38 times in the game. It sort of builds a bit of frustration in the stadium as well because the fans are aware of the urgency, of the need to win the game, of the need to be positive. And when they don't see that reflected in the performance, I think it just lifts the tension and the atmosphere shifts a bit.

18:08So it kind of spiralled in quite a negative fashion, I think.

18:15James McNicholas: I mean, you were there. So, I mean, you tell me how it sort of played out from your perspective, because, listen, I think David Raya with the ball at his feet is one of the best in the world. I think there are moments where he gets a little bit casual. But for me, it felt like Arsenal were using David Raya as kind of like a safety blanket, you know, where we're saying, okay, we're not willing to take the risk higher up the pitch. So we'll go back to the goalkeeper and ask him to play in a risky way, in a much riskier area of the pitch. It's sort of counterintuitive in a way. It is absurd, isn't it?

18:58It feels like we play our most intricate, interesting football in our own defensive third.

19:06James McNicholas: As we're trying to get forward. I mean, I had a look at the stats. Attempted passes, not completed passes, attempted passes on Saturday. First for Arsenal, Declan Rice with 50. Second, David Raya, 49. Third, Ben White, William Saliba, Gabriel with 40. I mean, I'm sorry, however good he is with the ball at his feet, that is absurd. That's not right that your goalkeeper is the second highest attempted passer in your team. And it's a long way, you know, from a game against a team like Bournemouth where, let's say, we weren't even at our best, where it was one of those kind of workmanlike performances.

19:48James McNicholas: If you looked at the stats after that game, what you probably see, usually see, is William Saliba and Gabriel on about 80, 90 passes each, right? Because we passed it around at the back and the opposition sat off a little bit. And you might have Declan Rice or your midfielder as the next highest passer. But again, this comes to the way that Bournemouth approached this game, the way that they did press high and didn't allow the centre-backs to just sort of pass it around at the back. But Raya, as our second-highest passer, tells a big story of this game. Yeah, it does. It does. I mean, I have to say, on a sort of general point, I sort of have to – how can I put this?

20:36I don't really like the football that we are playing at this point in time. And obviously, that's an easy thing to say when you've been beaten at home by Bournemouth. But it's been nagging me for a while. What it is, in recent games, I find myself watching the opposition and going, oh, that's interesting that they've done that. Like, I notice things in their game that we don't do. And it doesn't matter if it's Man City or it's Bournemouth or it's sporting. When I watch our matches, I observe teams progressing the ball in a way that I don't see Arsenal do it at this point in time. And it's not that they're superior teams, but I think they're just a bit more bold in possession.

21:25And I think Arsenal's styles come under a lot of criticism this season, some of which has been unfair. For example, like the set-piece thing, I think is unfair. Set-pieces, it's great that Arsenal are good at set-pieces and it's fun if you're a fan, like turns a corner into an event. I've got no complaints about that. It's not a fault that we're good at corners, but I do find it quite depressing watching us play for corners. And why do I watch like a Ryan Christie through ball to an overlapping fullback with envious eyes? Why am I watching that going? It'd be nice to see Arsenal do that.

22:08James McNicholas: Because it's a long time since you've seen an Arsenal player pass as incisive as that. Yeah. Yeah, and my feeling is Bournemouth in possession were doing things that Arsenal weren't willing or able to do. And I have to believe it's willing. I agree with that. I was going to say, I think it's a case of willing because you look at the training videos and they're zipping the ball around in these rondos and it's like ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping. you know the technical level i know of this particular starting 11 and maybe some of the players who came on was not the highest that we've ever seen at arsenal but i absolutely believe that they're capable of playing better football in tight areas rather than taking the safety first approach of going oh fuck here uh you have it and you give it back to david raya and we'll start again and see if we can find the Goldilocks passage of play.

23:06James McNicholas: Whereas I just think it just doesn't make sense to me that you're not willing to take risks on halfway or in the opposition half when you are taking risks by giving it back to your goalkeeper with the frequency that we do. Yeah, and I agree. Like, I don't believe... Sometimes I will say, oh, you know, I don't think the technical level of the team is where it has been. And I think that's true. But I don't believe, for example, that Bournemouth centre-halves are that much more capable on the ball than ours or that Declan Rice can't do what Alex Scott can do, for example. But I do feel that, yeah, there is a kind of...

23:46Bravery is a very loaded term. I feel like there is a willingness. At the back, yes, we have that kind of intricate play. But then once we get out, I feel like we don't play through the lines. We don't give players the ball in difficult situations where the marker is tight on them and there's a risk of them losing it. I think like too often we pick the path of least resistance and least risk, like once we get into our midfield. And I think it's because there's this huge focus and attention on what happens if we lose it. and yeah I think it comes down not to talent but to instruction and to a style of play and it might work it might ultimately win you a Premier League but my honest response and I feel slightly uncomfortable saying it is that I don't love watching it I don't really enjoy it as a style of play I think it's I think there's too much emphasis on what happens if we lose it and I don't think we trust players to be better than their opponent it's almost like we're so concerned with the man-to-man element of the marking that we forget we've got the better men

25:14James McNicholas: sometimes yeah I think that's in terms of the better men yeah for sure I mean maybe another aspect of why this performance, this result was so worrying was because I think whatever else you might say about the style, the perception has been that Arsenal have been a very good defensive team this season. I think certainly we started the season that way, right? And we can talk about those performances where the opposition didn't have a shot on target. I think what we've seen of late are defensive errors and lapses and goals being conceded that we wouldn't have conceded in the early part of this season.

25:52And when you couple that with the lack of zip

25:57James McNicholas: or the lack of attacking thrust, that's a bad combination. And I think the first goal was certainly an example of that. And I've watched them back. I've watched back the goals again. I mean, this one begins, and I want to say maybe a Zubimendi discussion for part two because I've got a question about him. But it was an unforced error, right? where he just played a pass that should have gone to Ben White out for a throw. That can happen. You regroup, but Bournemouth worked it from one side to the other. I think there's a lack of communication between Nani Matawake and Ben White. Both of them are kind of focused on the one man when one of them should be alert to the run of the left back who overlaps.

26:43James McNicholas: You mentioned that Ryan Christie pass. It's a very good pass. a little bit of bad luck or good fortune if you're Bournemouth in that the ball deflected off the foot of William Saliba, looped to the back post, and Eli Jr. Kruppi is there. He ran off Myles Lewis Skelly, who had no idea where he was. And that's 1-0. You're 1-0 down. And that's, I don't want to say uncharacteristic, but it doesn't feed into that perception of Arsenal as a solid defensive team. I mean, yeah, I think both Ben White and Nonny Maduroke are at fault here, if we're honest. There is a bit of misfortune in the way the ball breaks the far post, but the mistakes kind of already been made.

27:27In terms of that defensive solidity, I haven't run the numbers on this, but sort of, I do wonder if that's something that does tend to come apart later in seasons. like I wonder if that is a thing that is difficult to maintain over the course of like a long protracted campaign if you think about the Arsenal of September-October that were barely conceding a shot you know we're not that team anymore and I just wonder does that require such an element of precision and perfection that once you get into April and your centre-halves have played 40 games, it's just that much more difficult to achieve.

28:14I don't know, but certainly defensively we're not what we were.

28:17James McNicholas: Maybe it was just like a defensive purple patch, like scoring four or five goals in a game for three or four games. Maybe that was just something that happened. It was a bit of an anomaly more than anything else. But, boy, I'd like us to get back to a bit of that. But not a good goal to concede, but it was halfway through the first half. there or thereabouts. So plenty of time to respond, plenty of time to show a reaction. I'm not sure there was a huge reaction. There was a Kai Havertz header, which I think he should score. Yeah, great shot. It's a bad miss from a Declan Rice corner. I think that's a bad miss from Kai Havertz.

28:56James McNicholas: Then we get a penalty after the half-hour mark there or thereabouts. I think Rice had a shot, deflected for a corner. Madueke took the corner. Gabriel's just trying to knock it back into the middle and hits the hand. I mean, I think it's a penalty, I have to say. Ref took a moment to think, pointed to the spot. The VAR obviously had a look and saw that I think it is a penalty. I would have no complaints if that was given against us. And Victor Jokeres stepped up and, listen, made no mistake an absolutely thumping penalty to get us back into the game, and it's 1-1. Yeah, pressure penalty, but you never doubted him, really.

29:31He's very good in those scenarios. And I actually thought he had a decent first half. You know, he kind of ran the channels, made a nuisance for himself, won a couple of free kicks, was physical, direct. So, yeah, I mean, at 1-1, you're thinking we've got ourselves back into this. But a bit like the Southampton game, actually, where we got an equaliser a bit later, it never really felt like we took control of it, to my mind.

30:03James McNicholas: No, we didn't have a shot after scoring the penalty. And it did change the mood because the mood was obviously nervous. We were behind. Then you get a penalty. Sun is shining. You're thinking, come on now, lads. Just have a go between now and the halftime whistle. But it didn't happen. You know, the performance was stodgy, even after the goal. And we got to halftime. I was at half an inkling that there might be a change at the break, but there wasn't. He sent the same players out, but very, very quickly into that second half, decided he wasn't seeing enough of a response, I guess you would say, from his team in that second half, because I think Bournemouth actually started that second half quite brightly, actually.

30:52James McNicholas: I was just going to look at the stats here. Yeah, nearly 60 % possession for Bournemouth in the opening 10 minutes of that second half. So it wasn't a case that we came out and got ourselves on top. It looked like it was going to be a double change because he was readying. As in Trossard. As in Trossard. You know, I don't know if you had a good view of this or not, but it felt like Downman was kind of like a snap addition to that. it did look like that I have to say I mean obviously you're not privy to the conversations that are going on but it was it looked very much like a double change and then I think Arteta decided to kind of go all in on it which to be fair you know it's a bold move and a bit of a gamble and I think I've called for that from him previously but it did kind of show his hand at the same time I mean it doesn't leave you a great it doesn't leave you much to go.

31:54Do you know what I mean? Yeah. After that.

31:56James McNicholas: I was... We've had some triple changes and quadruple changes even from Mikel Arteta this season and they haven't really worked. And it's such an interesting debate because, you know, people will say it's been a weakness of Mikel Arteta using his bench, using his substitutes. But I think there's a stat during the rounds about how Arsenal have scored more goals than any other team this season from players who've come off the bench. Arteta using his finishers as you say. But I have to say, I didn't think the triple sub was quite right. You know, I would have liked to have seen those changes staggered just a little bit.

32:34James McNicholas: It gives you a little more leeway. Certainly, I would have got Ezza on pretty quickly. That was the one I was thinking of. Trossard for Martinelli, as I, you know, highlighted Martinelli's lack of impact in this game. I had no issue whatsoever with that. And I don't think Matueke was good, by the way. I just probably would have delayed the Dowman introduction for a little while, just as a way of trying to balance the team a bit with those new types of players. Like Eze and Havertz are very different in terms of how they play that role and what you want from them. Trossard and Martinelli, very different in how you play or how they play that left-wing role.

33:18James McNicholas: So I just wondered if trying to find a little more balance with those two would have been a better idea before bringing down and on. Like I would have brought down and on anyway because we needed a goal. But I just don't think the triple sub was effective. Well, I mean, it didn't really work. You have to say that. I think part of that, to be honest, is what happened almost immediately after because David Ryer made a couple of really significant uncharacteristic errors with the ball at his feet, including nearly gifting a goal to Evan Eilson. That was mad. Yeah. I mean, that should have been a goal, really, for Bournemouth.

34:03It easily could have been, yeah. and we would have absolutely no could have no complaints about it I mean it was completely of our own making I mean I still don't really know what he was trying to do I think he was just trying to like

34:18James McNicholas: dink it with the outside of his foot out to Ben White which I think could only be that yeah I mean I think if you're in training if you're in a rondo and maybe I'm you know this is me with double standards here I just don't think he can do that in the context of this game, in the context of how we were playing, in the context of how the ball consistently coming back to David Raya was making everybody feel, you know? And the players aren't blind or deaf or immune to how the crowd are reacting to the way they're playing, right? I just think it was really, like, I think David Raya has been brilliant.

34:54James McNicholas: And we talked about him as potentially up there with Arsenal's player of the season on last week's show, which I think is right. but that was just so careless you know if we are going to do this and play this way what you want is sort of complete assurance from your goalkeeper i know you can't get that but pick your moments right don't do something as as sort of potentially jeopardous as that yeah and although we got away with it in the moment uh i do think i do think it had an impact in the game it offered Bournemouth more encouragement, incentivised their press, and it added to that layer of tension that was kind of sitting over the stadium.

35:38So, yeah, I think that kind of undermined the impact of the triple change to an extent and quelled some of that excitement and the lift it might have provided.

35:49James McNicholas: There was like a little, I think flurry is probably the wrong word, but there was a little bit going on from an arsehole perspective before they scored. There was a Declan Rice shot. Ben White had a shot that was blocked. Eze did well in tight spaces. But then the ball sort of came back. Trossard had to make a big block on the edge of the box, if you remember. And then I think a goal that really highlights everything we've talked about as being bad about this Arsenal performance. You see where we win the ball back in the Bournemouth half. we win it back in their half within five seconds it's back at the feet of david raya david raya plays it out to gabrielle gabrielle i think he's trying a cross field ball gets closed down the ball loops up in the air we don't challenge for that second ball miles loses a header they get it forward evan nielsen just knocks it off to alex scott who runs off the back of zubimendi and finishes to make it uh 2-1 and it's just i don't want to say you get what you deserve but i do think that when you are that safety first safety in inverted commas by the way because when you play it back to your goalkeeper you're putting the ball in an area where the opposition could have some joy with it which is ultimately what it turned out to be like i just think we paid the price for just doing that too often and and And Bournemouth were snappy.

37:22James McNicholas: They were on it. They fought for that second ball more than we did. They won it. And fair play to them for fucking scoring that goal. But, like, that is a mess of our own making. Yeah, they got their reward, you know, for the press. I mean, it's not your sort of typical old nipping the ball off away from a centre-half. But the block they get on Gabriel's pass or clearance proved decisive, ultimately, because they get onto the second ball, they pick up the loose ball again they work it quite well through the centre of the pitch play a pass into a centre forward who's being marked and he finds a way to turn it into something and Zubermendy's got absolutely no idea I think that Alex Scott's just run off him or if he has an idea he's not got the legs to stay with him and then yeah 2-1

38:18I think Bournemouth since we were there for the taking, to be honest. Like when you look at the second half, a team pegged back to 1-0 at the Emirates Stadium. And another time in the season, maybe earlier in the season, I feel like they might look to sort of hold on to what they've got. But I think Bournemouth sensed an opportunity. I think they knew there was a second goal there for them and they got it. That said,

38:44James McNicholas: I think... Listen, I think our defeat was down to a collective underperformance or really poor performance, whatever way you want to put it. I also think that despite how poorly we played, our centre forward missed three good chances, decent chances, to at least get one goal in the final 10, 15 minutes of this game. I can think of two. I certainly remember. There was one from a central area where the keeper came and flat and Jocares. That's the one I had forgotten. Yeah. He kind of slipped. I don't know how he slipped because he said afterwards, the pitch was very dry. Nevertheless, he seemed to slip and shank the ball wide.

39:36James McNicholas: One of those dry slippy pitches. Yeah. The, yeah, the dry slip. It's the worst slip. I think that's a poor execution on a decent chance. There was a header at the back post. I think it was a Max Dam and cross. And he just did not make good contact. He was complaining that we should have had a corner, which we should have. I think it did knock off the Bournemouth defender. But it's a bad header where I think he should do better. And then there was another one where he cut inside and just really didn't make good contact. And listen, he's been such a point of discussion. One of the things that people have said is we've got to get him chances.

40:17James McNicholas: We've got to put him in positions where he can finish. That's what he's good at. And he is good at it. But on those three occasions, I think out of those three chances that he had, to not come away from them with at least one goal is poor. And I'm not blaming Jokeres for the fact that we lost. I think it's far deeper than that, goes far beyond that. But if we're talking about defensive mistakes from White, from Maduweke, from Lewis Skelly, from Zubimendi, I think we can talk about decent chances being missed by our centre forward. Certainly, yeah. And when you look at the Havertz header in the first half too, there were chances for Arsenal in this game.

40:59The last one for Jokovic, the one where he kind of opens up and he side-foots it rather tamely. that was the most surprising to me because that's the kind of opportunity where you know you expect him to make a good connection on the ball but he wasn't able to so yeah that that was disappointing a point you know had been very underwhelming but it might have been big in the context of the season that point I believe would have kind of kept things entirely in our hands it would have meant that even if City win all their games, they wouldn't be guaranteed to win it or something like that. So, yeah, I don't know, mate.

41:47It was a bad day at the office. From David Raba, probably all the way through to Victor Jokeres, you have to say that.

41:54James McNicholas: Yeah, it was. And it's, you know, it's very underwhelming. There was a lot of build-up around the game as well, obviously. and, you know, it's the sort of perfect, I mean, the 12.30 kickoff maybe isn't perfect, right? Maybe you want a three o 'clock kickoff. If you think that makes any big difference to anything, I don't really know. I'm never a big fan of those 12.30 games myself, but that's what they and everybody else has to deal with in the Premier League. I mean, one thing we haven't talked about, and I do think it was a factor, I think it has to be a factor at this point in the season. And it's difficult to quantify because it is completely an intangible.

42:33James McNicholas: But if you watch football, if you watch any other sport, high-level sport, you will know and understand and recognize that pressure is a factor when you get to the final stages, right? so if you're you know walking up the the fairway of the masters you know with four or five holes to play and you've got a one shot lead the water over the next hole looks very very inviting for your ball right we all we all know that yeah so it's about how you manage that and how you're capable of managing that and to me i i really felt like as we said i think that's not the best 11 that we could have put out with everybody fit right but i also think that 11 is capable of better than we saw the other day so how much do you think nerves pressure all of that stuff with just a few games left in the season played a part in in how we performed the other day uh i definitely think it's a factor like it's not the only factor i think we've discussed some of the technical and tactical failings of the team on the day but pressure and psychology is part of it look i watched the city game oh god you're a glutton for punishment i know my brother who long-term listeners will know is a chelsea fan he took my nephew his five-year-old son to one of his first Chelsea games yesterday.

44:13And he's never seen the team win. He's been three or four times. He's never seen them win. I should have fought tooth and nail to stop him going. Take him out, break his legs. Don't let him go.

44:23James McNicholas: Daddy, I hate football. Honestly, yeah, I think it is having that effect. Who can blame him as a Chelsea fan? But what I was going to say is that I watched it and certainly in the second half, City's players look like they're really enjoying their football. They, you know, Cherky's doing kick-ups and, you know, putting it through people's legs and watch their post-match interviews. They seem very relaxed. I saw Doku chatting about how, you know, he's really enjoying his football. oh, he's enjoying and he's having a good time in his personal life. They seem very at ease. And I think it's partly, obviously, that they're playing well, but it's also that they're chasing.

45:19And that is a less pressurised situation to be in. Everybody wrote them off, you know. A few months ago, people were saying, oh, they're not the same city, they've got no chance. And now they're chasing Arsenal down. And I think it's a more comfortable position. And obviously it's a bad weekend and you don't extrapolate too much from it. But I look at Arsenal and it looks like bloody hard work right now.

45:50James McNicholas: Well, I think it is. It is hard work. And I think we are sort of crippled by that anxiety of needing to get it over the line the first time. and I've seen questions about it and people have talked about, well, you know, if we do it this season, maybe next season the shackles are off and we don't feel that pressure in the same way. And I think that's really true, you know. I really do. I think the weight of everything, as we've talked about throughout this season, the weight of 22 years, the weight, the heaviness of three second-place finishes in a row, it's not just something the team is reckoning with.

46:28James McNicholas: I think it's something we're reckoning with as fans as well. And that has obviously gone a long way to inform the reaction after this game and, you know, to varying degrees. You know, wherever people are on the scale of, oh, don't worry, it'll be fine. We'll get there to, oh, fuck, we've blown it. I think everybody is on that scale, you know, somewhere. And that, I just don't know how that can be discounted. And I'm not saying this as an excuse or to make excuses because that performance was not good enough. We didn't manage the game well enough. You know, I'm not making any excuses because it was crap.

47:07James McNicholas: It was really, really bad. But I think we have to recognize that that pressure is a factor on this team right now. And it's the job of the manager and his coaching staff in this week ahead, because this is like such a pivotal week for the club, for these players, for this team, for this manager. It really is. They've got to find a way to sort of deal with that and turn it into something that elicits performances on the pitch. Because having gone through all of this and recognizing that everything is bad, we still have a lot to play for. And that has to be the focus right now for them, right? We can sit here in states of anxiety and fear and dread or whatever else it is.

47:57But for the team, they have to go out and perform because there is that possibility to go down in history as a team that will be remembered in a really positive way.

48:13James McNicholas: because if we win the Premier League or if we win, and if we win the Champions League, I should say, this will be a remarkable season. So they kind of have to, again, sort of put this behind them but recognise that as bad as it was, they can't wallow in the same way that fans can. No, and I think, you know, what we've really learned is this is going to be a procession, right? This is going to be a fight until the very end, most likely. And we're still absolutely in that fight. You know, as despairing as everyone had felt on Saturday night, we're still six clear with six to play. It's still a very strong position.

49:01In the Champions League, the draw is opening up for us, it seems. Everything is kind of falling in our favour. So there's a huge amount still to play for, a beautiful challenge, as Mikel Arteta might say.

49:20And I mean, the emphasis it puts on next weekend is huge. You know, we've played Manchester City in a final already this season, but it feels as if we have another final in a week's time.

49:33James McNicholas: That's what it is. That's what it is. It's a game that could see the arse fall out of everything, or we could be sitting here next Monday morning and everybody's feeling entirely different about how this season has gone. You know, and again, it's not up to us. However much we believe or don't believe, however much faith we have or don't have as fans, it is not up to us. It's up to the team and the manager to make it happen and to respond and react in a positive way. I mean, your faith in the team's ability to respond is probably linked to their ability to perform in the first place, right? Because I can't believe on Saturday before they went out, you know, for the Bournemouth game, before kickoff, there wasn't, you know, a very intense discussion in that dressing room about, come on, lads, we know what this could mean for our season.

50:25James McNicholas: And so, you know, if you worry about the team's ability to respond because we just didn't perform, I completely get that, you know.

50:38James McNicholas: But this is Arsenal. We never make it easy for ourselves and never have done. So maybe it's just another one of those stories that, you know, come the end of the season, we can look back on these games as part of the lore, if you like. The same way people talk about how everyone felt when Arsenal lost to Derby and drew with Wimbledon in the final two games before Anfield 89. It looked like Arsenal had thrown away the league title. But nobody really thinks about those games because Anfield 89 happened. I'm not saying that's the same thing or what happened in the past does not mean that something like that can happen in the future.

51:20James McNicholas: I just mean that if we do get it over the line, this Bournemouth game will only be remembered in passing as part of the tapestry of the season, I guess. Exactly. Maybe this is how it's meant to be and it's all just building up to a defining moment next Sunday at the Etihad that we'll remember for decades to come. That's certainly the glass half full tape right now.

51:52James McNicholas: Well, maybe we should just refill our glasses a little bit during the break, will we? Come back with some questions. We'll try. I mean, the questions are what they are, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not going to be super cheery, but we'll do our best. All right. We will take a little break. We'll come back with your questions and more in part two right after this.

52:24Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Abnos, senior sports editor from The Guardian. Whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. From one of the fastest-growing soccer newsrooms, The Guardian brings you in-depth World Cup coverage that gets into the winners and losers on and off the pitch. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, a global perspective, and a squad of Americans, including me, on the ground with the U.S.

52:56national team. Plus, if you want to test your soccer knowledge, try On The Ball. It's a game in the Guardian app, and it's really, really fun. And if you're into stuff like this... Well, I think the problem is if you give footballers an inch, they will take a mile. Is it too much when it's this close? It's a bit much. It's a bit too real. Maybe you could just talk with a slight delay. Be sure to listen to our Football Weekly podcast for on-the-move expert analysis. The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more.

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55:15James McNicholas: revenue to good causes. So if you'd like to get on board with what we do and help people all across the globe, in London, in Dublin, everywhere around the world, you can sign up at patreon.com forward slash arsebog. We'll give you details of those good causes a little bit later in the month. And of course, we are supporting the fundraiser with our good friends from the Arsevision podcast, raising money for the Arsev Foundation. You will find a link to the fundraiser in the show notes. If you can give anything at all, it would be hugely appreciated. You stand the chance to win some great prizes, including match tickets and lots more besides, as well as helping the people that really need it in the Zattery refugee camp, which the Arsall Foundation do such incredible work with.

56:00James McNicholas: Right. One thing before we get into the questions, I just think it's worth mentioning, is that we have had, understandably so, by the way, a load of questions about what if we don't do it? What happens to the project? What happens to the manager if we don't win the league this season? I think those are perfectly valid questions, perfectly reasonable questions. But I think until such time as we have to face up to them properly, I don't necessarily want to deal in that kind of hypothetical because we do have, as we said, still a lot to play for. If it doesn't happen, we will have the discussion and we will answer those questions honestly.

56:43James McNicholas: And I have some fairly strong and considered thoughts about what it would all mean. But until such time as that's the reality we have to face up to, I just don't know that it's what we need to do right now, either me, you, or anybody listening, to be honest. Yeah, it's probably not helpful, is it? you know, just kind of amplifying that noise based on hypotheticals. So yeah, I'm happy to park that for the time being. You know, it's still all to play for. And we do have to remember that. However fatalistic we may feel about it, the team, the manager cannot afford to feel that way because, well, it's still up for grabs.

57:28It certainly is.

57:29James McNicholas: Fingers crossed there's a nice reference to a famous win in the past. Let me go first, if that's okay. Shaggy Deza, 1991 on the Discord, says, should we drop Zubimendi for Norgard? And Geary says, hi, guys. It seems clear some changes need to be made. We can't play like that again. There have been signs this season. what changes would you like to see made to the line-up and the formation? So I just thought that was a way of framing the Zubimendi discussion because he was a player in the spotlight after Saturday. And then potentially what we could do with the team in the final stages of this season.

58:15I think Zubimendi, his form is a bit of an issue at this point in time. He's really faded from the player that he was in the first few months of the season. There are some stats during the round that suggest he's on course to have his most minutes ever in a first campaign in England.

58:39James McNicholas: Worth as well highlighting that I think Premier League minutes are probably more intense than La Liga minutes as well. Yeah, probably. And he's not always had Champions League campaigns to contend with as well at Sociedad. So I think this season will have tested him possibly unlike any other. And that's my assumption, really, that physically he's kind of, he's exhausted. But he's not, he's not impacting games in the way that you'd want. I do think, I still think there's a bit of a misconception about exactly what sort of player he is. I don't think he looks like he's ever going to be a guy who's playing 100 passes at 90 % completion rate and dictating the game.

59:29I just am not sure I see that in him. Certainly not right now. And yeah, I'd be thinking very hard about taking him out.

59:40James McNicholas: Do you think he needs to be taken out of the... Sorry, I apologise for cutting over you there. But I just wanted to ask, I agree with you about the form. I think he looks like he's running on fumes at this point. But do you think there is, because I don't know if you saw the stuff during the rounds on social media. At one point, it looked like the players were consoling. Is that the right word? Or certainly, you know, trying to show him that they had his back on the pitch at some point. And maybe whatever you might say about his physical state, If there's an issue, perhaps mentally, where it's becoming a bit much, if that's the right way of putting it, is there an onus on the manager to kind of take him out of the firing line, not just because his form is bad, but to sort of protect him a little bit where when you're low on confidence and you're low on physical confidence, you know, chances are you're not going to play well.

1:00:39James McNicholas: And that then becomes a very vicious circle with the fans, et cetera, et cetera. I think the Zubamendi we're seeing now is so different from the Zubamendi we saw in the opening part of the season. You know, recency bias is big, obviously, and I don't think he's played well of late at all. But I also think it is a big departure from how well he played when he first arrived. It is. It is. you know I think yeah fatigue form whatever it is he's really struggling at this point in time I take no pleasure in saying it I mean the question is what do we do what do we do because you know we've got that game of the Etihad coming up I think Michelarteau will probably pick Ryzen Zubemendi for it but maybe we have to leave him out in midweek to give him a chance of being closer to his best I I think the Norgard case study is fascinating in terms of...

1:01:43He's a player who's signed seemingly with the manager's approval or sign-off, but isn't really regarded by the manager as a serious option. I mean, he's played, is it an hour's worth of Premier League football this season? Is that it? I think so. I mean, Michael Arteta is not picking him in what he considers high stakes games. Is he right in that? Is he wrong in that? I don't know. 56 minutes in the Premier League. That's wild. It's absolutely bonkers, Andrew. For a player who was a Premier League regular last season. A captain. Yeah. Now, listen, I imagine there is a bit of a gap in quality between Norgard and the best version of Martin Zubermendi.

1:02:42But this version of Martin Zubermendi, I think they're substantially closer. I mean the other so it's interesting from a kind of recruitment perspective what did Arsenal get so wrong about this player that he's not usable in the Premier League and then I think it's also interesting from a kind of Arteta view of he does this he jettisons players and I think he has effectively discarded Christian Norgaard as a serious option at this point in time.

1:03:18James McNicholas: Most of the time that happens after a player plays more, though. You know what I mean? It's like somebody's been there and then he decides, yeah, I need to go a different direction. And I think a guy who's played 56 minutes in the Premier League, some people will argue, well, he hasn't been given a chance to show what he can do. That's the sort of counter-argument to that. Yeah, of course. Yeah, listen, I get that as well. But yeah, I'm not sure he has had that chance. I mean, Mikel Moreno as well is the elephant in the room here. You know, his availability would have made a big difference. And you could say, well, if Moreno's available, you're not worried about whether Norgard plays or not.

1:03:59But to be honest, I'm not even sure that flipping Zubimendi out for Norgard is necessarily the change I want to see in this team. I agree with that.

1:04:10James McNicholas: Like, I sort of don't want to see a like-for-like change. I think there's probably a through line between our, how would you say, metamorphosis towards that double pivot and the way our attacking game has felt inhibited. For me, like if it's me, and I know some people disagree with this, but I think Declan Rice can play the six. I absolutely think he can play that role. I know that's not where he has played but I think he can do that job absolutely and if it were me and I know this is a fitness thing and we haven't really had the opportunity to do it I would feel like Rice at the base of midfield with Odegaard and Eza ahead of him would be something I'd look to try and do but I suspect that's far too radical a change at this point in the season for Mikel Arteta but I also feel like he has to do something it's not just about right we've got to get Odegaard ahead of Zubamendi and Rice that'll fix everything I think there is maybe a need to not play a wild card but you know it's mad if Mikel Arteta is willing to play a 15 year old at Anfield away from home why is he so risk averse in other aspects of his team selections It's kind of hard to square that circle.

1:05:39You've got to have Odegaard fit first, of course. Well, that's what I mean, yeah. You know, that's one of the things. Yeah, I mean, again, look, I watched City yesterday. We're not City. We might well beat City next weekend and beat them to the Premier League title. So I'm not saying let's do what City do, but it was interesting seeing their midfield of Rodri alongside Bernardo Silva. you know and and you wouldn't look at that and say ostensibly there's loads of balance there that it's incredibly defensively secure but they're just two very good footballers and they controlled the game and i do wonder if you know if if rice could be our rodry in that way that we could use him and surround him with more creative technical players.

1:06:32I think that would be good. And listen, if Martin Zubmendi was flying right now and playing his best football, he probably is in our best 11. He'd certainly have a very, very good chance of it. But that's not the Zubmendi we've got. And I think we need to be honest about that. And Michael Arteta needs to look at it and say, A, this guy's way off expectations expectations and what he was himself producing earlier in the season. And B, if he's to have any chance of rediscovering or recapturing that, I'm probably going to have to take him out for a period.

1:07:05So I think Wednesday, I mean, the timing of Wednesday is pretty good, I think. I'm very glad we're not just facing a week building up to the City game. I know, obviously, it gives us another game to play in the interim, But I think the opportunity to play sporting, to potentially beat sporting, to go through to a Champions League semi-final could give the whole club a lift ahead of the Etihad. And I think that could be vital. And I think it also provides potentially an opportunity to change things. I mean, PFE Moon on Blue Sky said, morning, gents, appreciate your efforts to help process the ups and downs of Arsenal.

1:07:48Curious who y 'all would pick for Wednesday. And what do you both want or need to see in our play to feel better heading into the City game? Well, on a physical level, I worry about midweek because I do think there is an element of a physical issue with Arsenal.

1:08:06James McNicholas: Although we ran further than Bournemouth on Saturday, I think the issues are far more technical than physical. But you can't help but be a little bit worried when they've got a midweek off and we've got a big game in the Champions League. Yeah, listen, I understand that. I get that too. But I also take your point and I agree with it that going into the game on Sunday on the back of a good win, if we can do that and qualifying for the semifinals of the Champions League might be just the tonic that we need. So hopefully that's what we can do. Again, though, it's all fitness permitting, isn't it?

1:08:46James McNicholas: It really is. It's like, who do we have available? Who's going to be available? Will Calafiore be fit? Will Timber be fit? Will Saka be fit? Will Odegaard be fit? You know, the potential changes that you could make for a game like this are limited by who you have available. And we don't know as yet. true I wonder maybe about like for example I don't want to see Kai Havertz in midfield I do wonder if it might be beneficial and I think we said throughout this season that you know if he had everybody available to him and it was a big game who would Mikel Arteta play up front I think we said Kai Havertz and I don't think Kai Havertz has been in great form or anything like it since he since he came back from injury big goal in Lisbon obviously um but I do wonder if ahead of Sunday you can build a team that has Kai Havertz up front as a kind of rehearsal for that you know if he's capable physically capable of that I mean it all just comes down to who who has however many minutes in them like if Saka's back can he do 90 minutes if Odegaard's back can he do 90 minutes can Eza it do 90 can timber do 90 you know who have we got um i i don't really know how much scope there is for rotation on on wednesday evening i think he's gonna ask a lot of many of the same players who played the other day because there really isn't any other choice yeah in which case despite the fact that we come into the game with a lead i would love to see us play with a bit more intent.

1:10:38I'd love to see the likes of Saka, Odegaard, Timber, who I think has been a huge miss back in the squad. Even if they start on the bench, just to sort of get a few minutes to put themselves potentially in contention for Sunday. I think that'd be really beneficial.

1:10:57Yeah, but I think we just need, we need, we need a win and we need to go through and we need something that kind of restores some of the belief. I mean, yeah, we haven't talked about what happens if we don't do what we want against Sporting.

1:11:12James McNicholas: Yeah, well, that's another thing they're going to have to deal with or contend with, but... Yeah. I think at home we'll be too strong. I really do, but then I thought that on Saturday, so... Yeah, a repeat of the Bayer Leverkusen performance would be useful. jgphotos.bsky.social on Blue Sky obviously says I understand not wanting to give other teams any information but we haven't seen Saka or Timber for weeks now Calafiori was out again does Arteta owe us at least some explanation for these longer term absences? Yeah I don't know if you watched the press conference but I saw you trying to ask him a question I sort of said can we get an update on the players you're missing today And he kind of went, no, it's a great rapport we have.

1:12:05I think it is a bit alarming. I do think it's sometimes Mikel's reticence to talk about injuries adds to the intrigue and speculation and concern at times. I'm not sure the win is as big as he thinks it is. in this kind of fog of war. Sure. You know, I don't think it helps as much as he seems to feel it does. I think we're at a stage of the season where clarity would be more useful. I mean, maybe we take him at his word and he hasn't got clarity.

1:12:43James McNicholas: I thought it was really... That was my impression of the answer he gave you. Like, I think he is, he does default to the idea of like, no, I'm not giving you any information. But I genuinely think, based on the way he answered that question when you put it to him, I think you had to ask it a second time maybe because he didn't quite hear you. I think it genuinely was more a case of he just doesn't quite know. It was interesting, like he later said in the press conference, something to the effect of we need these players back now. Message to the medical team, message to the players, I don't know.

1:13:19Yeah, what did you think? I mean, it might be everybody, to be honest. It sounded like a message to someone.

1:13:24James McNicholas: I don't know. Like, here's the thing. I think any of these players, you know, particularly ones like Timber, like Odegaard, like Saka, even Calafiori, you know, who's I know only in his second season, but the guys who've been there and come so close over the last couple of years and seasons, you know, having experienced the pain of finishing second three times in a row, if there's any chance that they could be out there and contributing for Arsenal, they absolutely would be. You know, I think they're obviously carrying injuries that are significant enough for them to sit out a game at home against Bournemouth, not even be able to play 20 minutes off the bench.

1:14:15James McNicholas: You know, so I think that's a worrying aspect of it for me. Like, I don't doubt the motivation or the commitment of any of these players. It's just about, you know, what they're capable of physically, as I keep saying. And I think, you know, Mikel Arteta can say, we need these players back right now. But if those players are not actually physically capable of contributing at the level that we need them to, it's sort of counterintuitive or counterproductive to put pressure on them to come back just because things aren't going as well as we would like at this moment in time. You know, and listen, I'd love them all back.

1:14:53James McNicholas: And I'd love them all to be 100 % fit. But I also don't think that is the case. I don't think they are 100 % fit. And then, you know, you talk about performance levels. And I know we talk about every player playing through some kind of pain or whatever it is. But, you know, the fact Saka hasn't been seen since the Carabao Cup final. Did he even play in that? I can't remember at this point. he didn't did did he he did yeah he did okay did he i don't know i mean the fact that we're asking the question tells its own story but uh yes i believe he did because i remember having a conversation about his performance and i said i would have subbed him off oh yes that's true that's true he did he stayed on he did the full 90 he did the full 90 hasn't been seen since and And like all the, you know, Arteta's pulling players out of England, Judy, all that bullshit.

1:15:45James McNicholas: You know, well, we haven't seen him since. And that was, what, a month ago? Close to a month ago now. So, yeah, I get what he's saying. I think he does need those players back. But I also think they'd be back if they could.

1:16:05I also think we we sometimes assume that when you get a player back well that's it they're 100 % fit but I imagine full fitness probably occurs a few weeks into that comeback you know if it occurs at all like we might get a version of these players back But are we going to have the best version of Saka or Timber or Odegaard in time for Wednesday or Sunday? I would say highly unlikely.

1:16:47Whose question is it, Andrew? Yours. Okay. This is from The Grove, an Arsenal podcast. and they say are we adding extra pressure on the team and games by bigging up each match with pre-match rally cries rather than just treating games like Bournemouth as an important game but just one that we need to manage as a normal part of the run-in is it too intense

1:17:19James McNicholas: yeah there was a similar question on the the discord from P Moyles what do you make of the manager and the club hyping up these games arteta asking fans to bring their dinner socials full of motivational messages and videos trying to hype up the fans do you think it matters when it doesn't go well it certainly looks like it you know it backfires um yes i mean it's not everything in football if you win it's fine yeah well that's it yeah like every single thing it doesn't nobody pays a a lick of attention to it it is part of the world we live in and the the content landscape in which we exist that everything is a sort of an opportunity to create content around games and moments and occasions i think it probably depends a bit on your age a little bit as well how much you see this as like meaningful or meaningless you know what i would say though is that i wrote about this today in the blog if people want to go and have a read i get why this stuff happens i can get why michael arteta tells fans to sort of bring their dinner and you know get behind the team and all that kind of stuff and i don't want to have that discussion about whose responsibility it is to create a good atmosphere because we've done it before.

1:18:45James McNicholas: But I don't think it helps, you know, when you tell people to bring their dinner and then you just don't turn up yourselves in terms of performance. I think it is, it backfires, you know? So it makes the defeat maybe a little more damaging. What I think this week, I think we also have to acknowledge that the media commitments of the manager and the players are obligatory, right? He has to do the press conferences. You know, sometimes he'll get a question in a press conference and he'll give an answer to that question. And you'll see people say, what's he even talking about? Why is he talking about that stuff?

1:19:20James McNicholas: You know, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, well, he has to answer a question in a press conference. And I think this week, you know, maybe pre-Lisbon, hopefully not as much post-Lisbon, but certainly pre-Man City, there are going to be some difficult questions. And those questions should be difficult at this point of the season, right? but I would like for him and for the club, you know, to recognize how serious this week is. And he can send whatever message he wants, but I just think it just comes down to what these players produce on the pitch. You know, the old adage or cliche, whatever you want to say about, do your talking on the pitch, is never more true than now.

1:20:02James McNicholas: You know, and I think, I don't want to say there was a lack of seriousness about the Bournemouth game. I don't think that's the case. And I don't really think, in the grand scheme of things, some of the bullshit that goes on around games, particularly via the broadcasters, has a huge impact. But I think now, after what happened against Bournemouth, given what we've got to do against Sporting Lisbon, given the magnitude of the game against Manchester City on Sunday, I just don't think there's any room for that kind of stuff this week. And the club can control that message. And you'll know, obviously, how protective they can be about, you know, the messaging that gets out there and how things are reported, right?

1:20:55James McNicholas: Because of the job that you do and the other guys on the Arsenal beat do. You know, you'll know that there are times when they're a bit more open and there are times where they're like, we've got to be a bit more circumspect about how we deal with things. I think this is a week where they've got to be completely circumspect about the message that they send and the manager and the players, whoever does these interviews. It's not that they have to just say, we're concentrating on the game. I don't want to answer anything else. but really it's about how the for for all the difference it makes but but the perception of how we're treating this week i think is really really really important yeah i think that's fair i think we have to recognize that whether we like it or not arsenal like all football clubs are sort of now in the content creation business as well you know and there is a a need almost or a perceived need to kind of to attend to that in terms of like the big buildups for the games and the hype videos and the messages from Mikel Arteta I don't really care if it sort of elicits a bit of mockery from elsewhere I sort of think you take your lumps when you lose football matches my only sort of query would be what does it do to the players?

1:22:25Like that to me is the only thing that really matters. How do you mean though? I mean, do the players benefit from building Bournemouth up as a cup final sort of atmosphere? Or do they, would it actually be better messaging from a manager to be just focusing on the routine and making it the same as a game in September. I appreciate you can't do that. The reality is it matters more. But I just wonder, like, yeah, that sort of trick of, you know, make it happen, trying to build up atmosphere and importance. How many times a season is that going to be effective with a group of players? Yeah. I don't know.

1:23:15And I just wonder, like, if a team seems to be prone to slightly wilting in the spotlight, is that the healthiest way to approach a game? So I'm much more worried about the kind of internal impact than the external, you know, mockery that it might attract. And I think that's what Mikel Arteta has to determine over the next seven days. I mean, how does he approach sporting? How does he approach City? What is the messages players need to hear? Is it, it's all or nothing? It's do or die. It's now or never. Is it that? Or is it, do the things that you've done for eight months of a season? Yeah. The basics, the principles.

1:24:08Stick to that. Be clear-headed. Focus on what we work on in training. play your game is it just about that kind of messaging rather than it's you know it's judgment

1:24:22James McNicholas: day yeah i mean i will say that was my gut feeling on on saturday after the final whistle was that that result pushed us into sort of now or never territory with this project and for this team and for this manager so i think that's not something they can escape but i don't think that's necessarily something that is healthy for them to dwell on where's the di is that your diy i mean god knows where that either it's diy or there's a uh 12 foot mosquito outside the window it's a return of the external noise try and jump to another room uh in my flat um it is quite noisy isn't it Yeah. It genuinely does sound like a mosquito.

1:25:15It does. If there's a 12-foot mosquito, the title race is fucking the least of our worries.

1:25:22James McNicholas: Yeah, we're in big trouble. Okay, do you want to... I'm going to walk and talk. Oh, we can walk and talk. Okay. Let's walk and talk and see if it follows me. Right. Oh, I think it's worse. Oh, my God. Yeah, it is a bit worse. Anyway, go back to where you were. we'll just have to live with that that's where I was and shut a door and see if that makes any difference my god that's really annoying

1:25:49James McNicholas: god be with the days when we just had a an old leaf blower guy in the garden down below the truck remember the truck the beeping truck for listeners of a certain vintage now here we are in 2026 12 foot mosquitoes about to fuck us all anyway the the what i was saying was about the now or neverness of it right which i think is external to a large degree even though it obviously has internal ramifications but i i do think whatever messaging they are looking at it has to be about taking the pressure off as much as possible because it feels like we are inhibited as we said early on in in part one by the pressure of what's on offer and the big prize and all of that kind of stuff.

1:26:35James McNicholas: So I think you can be serious, but you can try and lift some of that pressure off these players. And listen, there's a reason why we are where we are, which is six points clear at the top of the Premier League table. It's not by accident. It's not by fluke. It's not because we have been terrible all season long. It's because for the most part, we have been good. And I think we need to find a way to remind these players that they are good, they are capable of better, and that they can go and sort of flip it around after a run of not particularly impressive performances. They can do it and that there is an opportunity.

1:27:17James McNicholas: And that opportunity is something that they should relish, as Arteta says, the beautiful journey, get on the big old fun boat, all that bullshit. But there is some truth to what he's saying. And I think that kind of has to be what they focus on internally. externally I don't want to hear it I don't want to hear about bringing dinners or any of that I just do not I want to see them do their talking on the pitch and I think that needs to be the way this week is transmitted from inside the club by the manager etc etc I've got a question Andrew because we have been good this season that is evident in the results and in the league table but you mentioned about me saying sound the alarm or ring the alarm of this um bournemouth game and some feedback i had from quite a lot of people was was a bit late for that you know you should have been ringing the alarm before this there have been signs in our performances and i just wonder sort of where you stand on that like do how how emblematic of kind of arsenal's last few months did you find this result and performance do you think that when when when do when do you think it sort of started to potentially go wrong i mean i think you know over the course of this season we've been, we've recognized when things haven't been good.

1:28:52James McNicholas: We've recognized when things have been good. I think back to the Wolves game and how that felt. I think it's much more amplified now, right? Because we're far closer to the end of the season and there is much less margin for error. But I don't think when we played Wolves, we said, well, it'll be all right. Don't worry. No, that's just a blip. I think we raised concerns about certain aspects of our game. And I certainly remember discussing with you how when you play on the margins in the way we have throughout this season, right, lots of single goal wins, that sometimes you're going to end up on the wrong side of those.

1:29:36James McNicholas: So I don't think it's been something that we have ignored. No. But, you know, when you've got 15 games of the season remaining, you're not going to be standing there ringing the alarm bell because you lost a game against Wolves. Then it was about like, OK, I remember that after Wolves going, oh, fuck. and looking at the schedule and seeing a North London derby, which I recognize against possibly the worst Spurs team we've seen in a long time, who gave our very, very dark clouds a little silver lining this weekend. Yes, thank you, Sunderland. Thank you, Sunderland. Then we played Chelsea at home, and then we went to Brighton away, and we won all three of those games.

1:30:21James McNicholas: And it's just an indication of how results can change things. But I don't think it's a surprise to anyone that, you know, a performance like the one against Bournemouth was there, you know. Yeah, I mean, I had to look back myself. Our last result of 2025, we battered Villa 4-1. And I feel like at that point in time, you know, that was a really convincing performance. But I feel like in the second half of the season, there have been quite a few underwhelming ones. And I remember in the early portion of the season, you know, when we were having that incredibly solid defensive spell, we had quite a lot of conversations of, imagine when the football clicks, you know, we're going to get better.

1:31:10We should get better from here. We were welcoming players back, players were settling in.

1:31:18Yeah. And I think that, I'm not sure you could say that has happened. I don't think that we've been the best version of Arsenal in the second half of this campaign you know since that Villa game we had a nil-nil with Liverpool we had a nil-nil with Forest we got the home defeat by United we had a draw at Brentford in which we should have been beat a draw at Wolves where we chucked it away you know scrape past Brighton scrape past Everton defeat to City, defeat to Southampton defeat to Bournemouth we've had highs in there A Derby win, like you say, fantastic day against an admittedly dreadful Spurs team.

1:31:58We've progressed in the Champions League. I'm not saying it's been all bad, but there's definitely, yeah, I definitely think we have did it. And it's not a total shock to see us turning in performances like the one against Bournemouth because the signs have been there.

1:32:16James McNicholas: Sure. I think as well, you know, what we also said was, you know, when you're in the middle of the season, you're looking for context, right? You're looking for signs of things that give you encouragement, because if you are worried, that's what you want as a football fan. Listen, some people will go, you know, whenever anything goes wrong, the sky is falling. And there'll be other people who when something goes wrong, will say, no, no, no, no, everything will be all right. That's just how people deal with shit. But I do remember saying that even if things weren't going as well as we would like, you know, making the point that in the invincible season, I think 11 of the games that we won that season were by a single goal margin.

1:32:56James McNicholas: And at that point, Arsenal had only won eight by a single goal margin that some of the wins were a bit more convincing. And obviously there was a lot of the season to play. So while we recognize that not everything was going as well as we would like, you know, you're trying to apply historical context to what goes on. But true, you know, and that's why I think that's why I also think if somebody's glass is very much half empty right now, if somebody feels like this is a film they've seen before in terms of the title race, then I get that completely. I get that completely. I mean, what about this for a question?

1:33:35Because, you know, we try as much as possible.

1:33:40James McNicholas: There are two things I want to ask you here because there was another thing related to hashtag content. But the external noise, and as you say, you've got to take your lumps when you lose a game of football, particularly at the business end of the season when it can be so impactful. Biryani Rice says, if we don't win the league, I think this will be the first time we will actually bottle the league. Do you agree? Well, there was a man in the away end, wasn't there? Well, that's the other thing I was going to mention to you. Who, yeah, certainly that would be the word he would use. Like I do hate that word, but I can, because like.

1:34:26What's the etymology of that, by the way? I don't know I was thinking about that because I was thinking about like sort of the image of that guy tugging on that bottle and thinking where did that come from I don't know

1:34:37James McNicholas: I don't know either but yes is this the first year we will have bottled it

1:34:48if I'm honest with you people might not like this I think there was a bit of bottling in 2023 I know that Saliba got injured and Tomiyasu got injured. But when you look at games like the Southampton game, you know, there were clearly matches there where we were not able to cope with the psychological pressure of the situation, in my view. And there are explanations. We weren't ready. We weren't ready. We were ahead of schedule. We were not ready to take that step. And that's why I don't think anyone was particularly, down on the manager or the team at that time. I think everyone understood that.

1:35:31It's that word context again. I do think this year, I know some Arsenal fans do push back at the idea that Arsenal have to win the league this year. And I accept that is sort of an absurd standard to set or expect. But from the position that we have been in, you know, with the opportunity to go 12 clear with six to play, I think to not win the league from there would be a significant failure. Yeah. And I think we would have to take our lumps. Yeah. Like, I just don't, that's my view. What do you think?

1:36:11James McNicholas: I think, you know, sometimes it is, it's just too wedded in the banter sort of culture to say you bottle this, you bottle that, right? Yeah. I, you know, I would push back on your 23 thing, because I do think the two injuries that we had to Saliba and Tomiyasu were hugely damaging. And I think they were far more a contributing factor to not winning the league than any lack of courage or character or anything like that. This is one where I think if we don't win the league from the position that we've been in for so long, And even the position that we're in now, by the way, I don't think you could refute with any great efficiency that accusation if it was leveled at us.

1:37:02James McNicholas: And that's kind of painful. It's a painful thing to consider about what might happen. But again, what might happen, our destiny is in our hands still. And that has to be something that they talk about this week. and that they hopefully can use. That's it. And I think, I mean, that was probably the most painful thing about Saturday was that the thought sort of crosses my mind is everything people say about Arsenal true. You know, and of course, that's a bit of despair creeping in there. But it's a horrible feeling when you kind of play into people's expectations or negative characterisations. but they have an opportunity to refute those allegations, don't they?

1:37:56They do. They have an opportunity to put that right.

1:37:58James McNicholas: I mean, that guy in the Man City end at Stamford Bridge doing that, I mean, is it the Ivan Toney nice kick around with the boys of this season? I mean, is that not an image that Mikel Arteta ought to use ahead of Sunday's game as he's trying to get his team ready to motivate them, to get them, you know, fired up for this game, to say, look at what they're saying about you. And I know it's a small thing. You know, the bigger aspect of what we do on Sunday will be about how we set up tactically, how we play, what we do with the ball, what we do without the ball, those things are far, far more important.

1:38:51James McNicholas: But we've talked about intangibles in terms of the pressure that we're feeling. That seems to me like a moment where he could use whatever little extra that might give, you know, because that's, listen, you can hate the memification of football, you know, but that is, as you say, just where we are. Sky Sports, posting that up on their Twitter page and all that kind of stuff. You can ask if that's the right thing to do. Is that what you should be doing as the principal broadcaster of the Premier League? Are those the kind of things that you should be promoting? But those are the kinds of things that people engage with, rightly, wrongly, for better or worse.

1:39:35James McNicholas: That is how, unfortunately, the world and the social media world works. Would it be remiss of Mikel Arteta not to use that guy in his bottle ahead of the game on Sunday? Yeah, he may well do. I mean, I would say the big distinction from Tony is, of course, that Tony's a player. And I don't know. I think players are more motivated by the actions of players than fans, probably. Like I think Ryan Cherky doing kick-ups in a Wembley final. Sure. That may bother them more than Fat Man in crowd with bottle. Okay. So what you're saying, we just need to like Photoshop Rodri's head onto that dude. Yeah, I don't know.

1:40:24Look, I obviously did not enjoy that shot at Stamford Bridge, but I also, I don't have a big problem with it either. If the shoe was on the other foot, I'd find it very funny probably. And I think, as we said, I think this is a season where if we do fuck it, we'll have to own it. I really don't see any other, I suppose it's in Arsenal's hands to decide whether that image is forgotten or haunts us forever. Correct. Correct. Absolutely. And obviously we desperately hope the former. Yes, let's hope so.

1:41:09James McNicholas: I think we've probably said everything we need to say about both the Bournemouth game and what happens next. So it is really a case of sort of Sid and Stu until Wednesday. We lick our wounds and our very, very open bleeding wounds and go again against Lisbon and hope that we can get ourselves back on track, right? Yeah. Yeah. And listen, I don't know about you, but I sort of think whatever happens on Wednesday night, I think I'm going to be thinking about Sunday all week. Yeah. No, me too. Me too. It was one of those, you know, I couldn't help think this weekend of like ahead of the Carabao Cup final, we had all of these questions.

1:41:59Like if you had to pick one game to win

1:42:03James McNicholas: against Manchester City, would it be this final or would it be the game at the Etihad? And we didn't do those questions because the choice is not necessarily, it's not binary, right? You know, the answer of course is both. I want to win both. But I just couldn't help think about those questions and think, oh God, it would be fucking amazing to be sitting here next Monday morning feeling so much better about Arsenal and feeling so much better about our chances and what we might achieve this season. Well, Andrew, I mean, listen, I know we've got to wrap it up, but it strikes me that there's sort of a question missing or omitted from this podcast, which is like, do you still believe we're going to win the league?

1:42:44Going into Saturday, and this is just my gut feeling, right?

1:42:48James McNicholas: This is what I felt was that, if we beat Bournemouth, we'd win the league. I would have felt very confident about winning the league if we'd beat Bournemouth. We didn't. And that obviously changes things. I think a win next Sunday, I think we go on and win the league. If we avoid defeat, if it's a draw, I think we still have a good chance of winning the league. if we lose to Manchester City on Sunday, I can't see anything other than the momentum that they have taking them beyond us. That's my gut feeling. And obviously there's only one way I hope it goes, but that's kind of how I feel. What about you?

1:43:38Yeah. I'll be honest now and say I thought, I mean, look, it's never done, but I thought if we beat Bournemouth, I was very confident we would be champions. 12 points clear at this stage, even with the games in hand, even with the Etihad. I think that would have been a very, very commanding position to be in.

1:44:03I think if we beat City on Sunday, I think we'll do it. I think we'll win the league for sure. I think if we draw like you, I think we'll still be very much in the driving seat. I think if we lose, it's just, it's anybody's really at that point. I'm not quite in the place of if City beat us, it's over. They're just going to steamroller us and run away with it. I don't see that. I think there'll be, there's more track on this roller coaster.

1:44:38But given the position we were in, to sort of be in that, for it to then be so up in the air, so in doubt, is a, I would say, would be a bit of a disaster given where we were and the opportunities that we've had in recent months to really strengthen and extend that lead, some of which we've let pass us by. So all in all, Sunday is quite a big game, isn't it?

1:45:07James McNicholas: It certainly is. It's, you know, one of the, it's just such a big game for the future of everything and for everything that's happened over the last number of years. But there will, of course, be plenty of time to talk about that game later in the week. It doesn't happen until Sunday. There is the Champions League game, of course, on Wednesday against Sporting Lisbon, which we'll look ahead to tomorrow. We'll have a bit of a preview podcast for you over on Patreon. Also on Patreon later on this afternoon, we will have an episode of The 30, which is our Premier League preview, not Premier League preview, our Premier League roundup podcast.

1:45:45James McNicholas: Typically, Phil Costa has been doing that with me for the last three, four seasons. Unfortunately, he's had some issues of late, so he's had to drop out. So just a moment to wish Phil all the best with his recovery, and hopefully he'll be back podcasting with us very soon. But we do have a replacement drafted in for the next few episodes, so you can join us for that a bit later on at patreon.com forward slash arseblog. For now, take it easy, folks. Thanks for being here as always, and we will catch you on the next one. Bye-bye.

1:46:47We'll be right back. journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, a global perspective, and a squad of Americans, including me, on the ground with the U.S. national team. Plus, if you want to test your soccer knowledge, try On The Ball. It's a game in the Guardian app, and it's really, really fun. And if you're into stuff like this... Well, I think the problem is if you give footballers an inch, they will take a mile. Is it too much when it's this close? It's a bit much. It's a bit too real. Maybe you could just talk with a slight delay.

1:47:17Be sure to listen to our Football Weekly podcast for on-the-move expert analysis. The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more.