Arsecast Extra Episode 704 - 21.07.2026

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0:30Hello and welcome to another RS Cast Extra. As always, we're James from Gunner Blog. James, goodly evening to you. We're back on the same time zone. All is well in the world again. Well, not quite, because it's supposed to be goodly morning. It's supposed to be Monday morning. Yeah. It wasn't to be yesterday. No, we're a bit delayed. Sorry about that, folks. Sorry, everybody. It's not like much has happened. And it's not like there's been a World Cup final or a transfer hijack or a Bakaio Saka hat-trick or anything like that. Oh, phew. I thought you were going to say something like that I didn't know yet about Bakaio Saka.

1:11And I'm glad it was just the hat-trick. No, no, nothing Achilles related. Good. But yes, my apartment in hotel in Chicago had no functional Wi-Fi. So we had to reconvene, which does unfortunately mean that you're getting a very tired version of James from Gunnerblog, right? Yes. I mean, I think that's fair. The jet lag kicks in. I'm guessing it was an evening flight, a sort of an overnight flight landing early morning-ish in London. Landed at about, yeah, left Chicago at 7pm, landed at 9am UK, which of course for me was kind of 3am the rest of the time. And then I went directly from the airport straight to a full day's rehearsal for an acting job I'm on at the moment.

2:04Oh, my God. Yeah. I've been awake the best part of, I don't know, 36, 48 hours. A long time. Yeah. See, when you said yesterday when we experienced the Wi-Fi issues and stuff, can we record in the evening? I was thinking, yeah, that's fine because obviously he's going to come home. He's going to sleep all day. going to have a bit of sleep, you know, catch up with the family, spend a bit of quality time with them, and then, you know, just be ready for the podcast. I didn't realise that you were pushing the whole way through. Holy crap. Yeah, it's been a mad few months, actually. Yeah. And I'm back in my flat now, and I think it's the first night I've spent here since the day after the Champions League final, the parade.

2:51Wow. Stayed here for that. um and then yeah not been here since so it's very very very nice but also slightly sure hard being home well tell me just a little bit before we crack on with all the stuff that's been going on tell me about the experience and the show and chicago it was uh it was a fun different summer i guess it was great yeah i really enjoyed it i've got to say huge credit to Camille, my wife, because when they originally said to me, can you go to Chicago for two months to make a television program? I immediately said, no, I can't do that because I have a wife and a child who I cannot leave in the lurch.

3:37But actually Camille kind of talked me into doing it. I mean, she must be sick of having me around the house. I think that's the only possible conclusion. But yeah, she was like, sounds like an interesting opportunity and we'll come out for a few weeks. and we'll make it work. So I did it and it was great. I really enjoyed Chicago. Great city, very friendly people. You know, Midwesterners, I gather, are known for their friendliness. Have you been to Chicago? No, I've never been. I've never been. I think you'd really like it. Yeah. It's got a great food culture. I like food. Yeah, it's a very cool place.

4:18brilliant music scene i think house music originated in chicago yeah yeah yeah there's there's a long history of that for sure yeah yeah and like obviously big blues and jazz culture and yeah it's just um really really cool place and uh i enjoyed doing the tv show as well like i've always sort of been a bit wary of doing football tv football presenting but um yeah i found it good fun in the end actually and that's nice people so i know what everyone wants to know we'll get to that yeah we've got to keep we've got to dangle the carrot yes we've got to keep the people listening we will get to the big big topic of this particular the deep topic that's it that's it tease them there they'll go deep what could that be oh they'll figure it out as we as we talk it It is sort of mad, and you're probably in the sort of headspace where everything is weird and surreal because of how long you've been awake and because of travel and all that kind of stuff.

5:23But it's sort of mad that I'm sitting here as well on a Tuesday evening and the World Cup final, it sort of feels like yesterday's news in a way. But we do obviously need to talk about it because it's the culmination of the tournament that we've all been watching, for better or for worse, throughout the last however many days it was. Was it like five weeks? Oh, at least that may be more. A long time. And it was Spain versus Argentina. And from an Arsenal perspective, obviously, unless you are connected to Argentina in a way, I'm guessing most of the Arsenal fans would have been up for Spain because of the Arsenal players who potentially were involved in that final.

6:06Two of them did play, Mikel Moreno and Martin Zubimendi. David Raya didn't get off the bench. I'm sort of going to guess that all the sort of in-depth analysis of this game has taken place already and nobody needs a huge amount more from us in that sense but I have to say I'm really glad that Spain won this I am a bit sorry and a little bit cross with Mikel Moreno that he couldn't save us from extra time in this game but I'll forgive him I will forgive him this once it was a game to be endured rather than enjoyed I think in part because well in no small part because of how Argentina approached it and the way they behaved you know during the game and after the game has really not won them any fans or any friends at all has it no and when you say it feels a long time ago I do wonder if that's because there's maybe been less dissection and kind of reminiscing about this final than we would have hoped for, because it was a pretty dire game and a pretty one-sided contest.

7:20I mean, they didn't have a shot, did they, in normal time, Argentina? 116th minute was their first shot. Wow. You know? Wow. And yeah, I mean, there was a lot of talk about Messi pre-game and understandably, given his talent and the tournament he's had, but he was really a non-factor. yeah Spain were the right winners and frankly the manner in which they overcame France in that semi-final to me suggested they they were absolutely worthy winners at that point because they beat the clear favorites and Argentina couldn't really lay a glove on them they could lay some boots on them though some boots if they'd been wearing boxing gloves I'd say they'd have laid a glove on them there are one or two of those players who are a bit handy with their fists particularly after the final whistle.

8:06You know, I really do think there's a justice. We had a number of questions on the Discord about whether this was, you know, the biggest football justice we've seen. And I, you know, I think Spain were robbed of a goal which should have stood. I think if that game had gone to penalties, for example, and Argentina had won on penalties, that would have been one of the great injustices in football history because there's no way that goal should have been disallowed. I thought some of the tackling from the Argentina players could easily have been punished more heavily than it was. Enzo Fernandez just didn't give the referee any choice, even if he was predisposed, let's say, to let a few things go, which he did in this game.

8:58I think there was one from Tagliafico early on, Laminya Mile, which was just like, how the fuck is that not a yellow card? So if it felt a bit like he was going to be lenient, there was just no way he could ignore Enzo Fernandes going full Enzo Fernandes. No, I mean, it was kind of insane, but there was a point earlier in the game where it felt like Argentina's players were just careering around into challenges without massive fear of repercussion. It's like the first half of the England game, or certainly the first 15, 20 minutes of the England game. Well, quite. And I think Argentina's antics in the England game won't have endeared them to many of my countrymen.

9:39I think we probably were all rooting for Spain. And Marino did make an impact, I thought, off the bench and came really close with that header, made that pretty gnarly block with his face. you know I thought he played an important role as did Nico Williams coming on I thought you know linked with Arsenal seemingly summer after summer I think has flattered to deceive at times when I've watched him play but did make an impact here for sure yeah Ferran Torres with the finish a really nice finish as well and Nico Williams heading back Mikel Moreno doing the job of sort of chief distractor taking two or three players towards the goal line.

10:24And I was delighted. I really was delighted. You know, Spain don't have a great record in penalty shootouts, I believe. So I was glad it didn't come to that. And like you say, the antics at the final whistle, some of the behavior of the Argentinian players and some of the staff was absolutely disgraceful, really. You know, you can be competitive. You can be unhappy when you lose, but that's a sort of level of sore losing that, you know, you just don't win any friends. Not that they had too many to begin with, I think, going into this game. But, yeah, it was unfortunate or disappointing to see that, but not necessarily too surprising from some of the characters in that Argentina team.

11:13No, quite right. And I think there was a degree to which at a certain point in the tournament, Argentina's force of personality was kind of compelling. But as it became clear that that sort of actually outweighed a lot of their footballing ability as a team outside of Messi, there was only really one rightful winner. and Spain got the job done. And, you know, I credit to them because this is not the most star-laden Spain team we've ever seen. Obviously, Lamine Jamal is a huge star, but he's still only 18 years old and has already won a Euros and a World Cup, by the way. It's absurd. And I think, you know, it would be fair to say that in this tournament, he looks like a guy who was carrying an end-of-season injury into the tournament.

12:04We've seen it, you know, with other players before, you know, where a big, important player picks up an injury towards the end of the season. They come back and they play in the tournament, but they can't quite get to their best level. And I think that's true of him, even if there were sort of flashes of his brilliance. Yeah, quite right. And, you know, they've got an unheralded coach who De La Fuente has come through the kind of Spanish system. He's coached a lot of these players at under-19 level, under-21 level. I think becomes the oldest coach to win a World Cup for the first time. I saw someone say, I don't know if this is true or not, but he becomes the first bald coach to win the World Cup.

12:46So, you know, we've had, you know, as members of that particular club, we've had some unfortunate association with the president of FIFA because, you know, he is, he's a bad baldy. I don't think we're the bad bald guys. and Luis De La Fuente is one of the good bald guys, certainly in terms of managing a football team. That's good. Yes, some recompense. I mean, we talk a lot about positive bald representation and De La Fuente is doing his bit. Spain now, I believe, world champions in the women's game and the men's game, European champions in the men's game too. So yeah, very impressive and not a memorable final.

13:32I mean, a lot of finals are poor, but I think after the drama of 2022, this was a real letdown. And I think, you know, the halftime show and the circus around it means that it won't be remembered too fond of them. No, I mean, the pregame stuff was rotten. It was terrible. It really was. I missed that, thank God. I saw Robbie Williams in his tracksuit. I couldn't decide who looked worse in their tracksuit, Ronaldo or Robbie Williams? Madonna. honestly i don't robbie williams was singing uh something that i believe is the fifa anthem i was like what did fifa have an anthem anyway that that wasn't good and then tom cruise gave this like banal insipid speech while standing on a box and the trophy was presented in a box you know of the sponsor of the trophy box and it's just like is is everything up for monetization by FIFA and by Gianni Infantino.

14:34It was sort of repulsive, really, all of it, you know. The halftime show I didn't watch, I turned off. I sort of, you know, no, it makes no big difference in the grand scheme of things, but I sort of stuck to my conviction about this being completely unnecessary. FIFA were saying, you know, after all the talk about it, it'll be a half-hour break. FIFA were going, no, no, no, it'll just be 17 minutes. In the end, it turned out to be, I think, 27 minutes between the end of the first half and the start of the second half, which is just completely wrong as well. Let's get ready to rumble, all that kind of stuff, which was going on pre-game.

15:14You know, yeah. The football, I think, and some of the stories from this World Cup, because of the nature of the game, because of how amazing and brilliant football actually is as a game and as a sport, has been captivating and really compelling. You know, there have been some fantastic stories, some fantastic games. You know, I think that is what the World Cup gives you when you have that much football, by the way, as well, with 48 teams. And talk of going to 60 for the next one. But, you know, when you have that much football, you're always going to have the stories. You're always going to have the Cape Verde's, you know, the sort of underdog stories that we got in this World Cup and some of the great performances.

15:56And, you know, Mbappe turned up and scored goals. And Haaland turned up and scored goals. and Messi turned up and scored goals. You know, the big boys turned up and scored the goals. The stars were out. And that is captivating and it is exciting and everything else. But, you know, there was so much about this World Cup that was just not right, you know, in my mind. The way the game has been damaged, I would say, by Gianni Infantino and his desire, and I will say this very clearly, his desire to Americanize it, you know, because people will say, well, it's America's fault that the World Cup ended up like this.

16:34I don't think that's true. I think it's Infantino's desire to be, I don't know, he sees this as part of his job as like an entertainment impresario, right? So we'll make it razzmatazz and we'll have the four quarters and we'll have the halftime show. And, you know, I'm glad things like the ad breaks were booed roundly by football fans throughout this. You know, there was a lot of stuff about the World Cup that wasn't great as well. I think it's important that we remember that. Most of all, I would say, the fact that people have come away from this tournament thinking that Jed Spence is any good.

17:07I think that's the worst part for me. Yeah, I must say that was not a narrative I was anticipating. The Jed Spence national hero one. I mean, I remember him being very, very good against us for Nottingham Forest once upon a time. Do you remember that game? I do remember that game, yeah. Yeah, horrible. He played against Nuno Tavares who got taken off after about 30 minutes. Are we saying that doesn't count? Yeah, more or less. Yeah, listen, I mean, I thought, listen, yeah, I don't like to say it, but I thought he had a very, very good tournament. But England, I mean, I nearly sacked off the third, fourth playoff, but having watched the final, I was very glad that I'd watched that one too because it certainly balanced out in terms of goal mouth action.

17:58Sure. Can I ask you, you know, as an English man, and we haven't spoken since the semifinal, I don't want to sort of reopen old wounds from any of the people listening to this, but your thoughts on the semifinal and then, you know, tie it into that third, fourth place game, because I had assumed that the only reason we did not see Bakayo Saka in the semifinal was because the injury that we know he's been struggling with or dealing with was too bad for him to come onto the pitch at any point in the World Cup semifinal. And then he plays the next game, as did Declan Rice, by the way, which kind of, I looked at that team and I felt like, you know, if there was an app where you could just put in a person's name and give them a digital wedgie, I would have done that to Thomas Tuchel for picking Declan Rice.

18:49But Saka, in the third, fourth place games, turns up, scores a hat trick, looks pretty lively, talked to ITV afterwards and said, yeah, I'm fit, I'm fit. I would have liked to have played more, but there's no point talking about that now. What would he make of, I would say, England's best attacking player? because I don't really count Harry Kane because he's just a big flat track bully really. Bellingham? Bellingham, okay. Okay, that's fair. But what do you make of Saka not even playing a minute in a World Cup final? Do you think it was just a consequence of Tuchel taking that gamble and saying, fuck, we're just going to defend this lead and see it out and then sort of digging himself into a hole?

19:39Yeah, it was surprising, wasn't it? To see him not get a minute. And obviously when you then score a hat trick in the next game, there's a temptation to draw like a big correlation between those things. I have to be honest and say, I don't think we've seen Saka play at that level since, well, much. Like I'd have to look, but you know, it's not like he'd been hugely convincing in the tournament prior to that. Now, granted, nor had Nani Maduweke on that right-hand side, But I thought the decision to start Morgan Rodgers in that position was a reasonable one and actually led to England's goal on the night.

20:20It was Rodgers who crossed from that side. Saka obviously looked great against France, but that was a pretty mad game. I don't know if you watched it. I did, I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a very unusual affair. And particularly in the first half, I thought France looked pretty checked out of the tournament at that point in time. So, yeah, I'm a little bit reluctant to say, oh, you know, Saka showed he's back to his best and he should definitely have played against Argentina just because I think this was really the first time he's looked like the player we know and love. He had one good assist for England earlier in the tournament where he went out on the right-hand side and got to the byline, pulled one back.

21:04But yeah, listen, irrespective of that, it was unusual that he didn't play a minute in the semi-final for sure. And there's been a lot of criticism of Thomas Tuchel and I think a lot of that is there. I think the substitutions were poor and I think England could have managed that game better. I also think that the players have some responsibility in that. You know, often when teams collapse into defensive shapes, I think the managers are ultimately responsible. But I don't think you can underestimate the way in which both kind of the psychological temptation to hold a lead and fatigue can be a factor in that.

21:45And actually as Arsenal fans, I think we saw a lot of that last season. Arsenal, you know, in situations where they were probably better served by pushing on, trying to control the space, control the game, falling into that defensive shape because there was a kind of comfort in it. Sure. But I mean, I've never seen Arsenal play however long it was between the Anthony Gordon goal and the first Argentina goal and actually the second Argentina goal with 12 % possession. I mean, there's being defensive and there's being organized and there's being hard to break down and playing in a low block. And then there's whatever that was from England, which was by any measure, I think, quite extraordinary, really, because England have better players than those stats demonstrate.

22:35You know, they should have been able to do something else. And listen, I get he made a choice. He looked at the game and thought, right, can I change the dynamic? Probably not. But I do think if you have players like Ezzer, Rashford even, to give you an outlet, you know, when Harry Kane is dropping back as a centre-half or dropping as deep as that, you know, that's, you've got to give yourself something else in the opposition half. And, yeah, it wasn't great. And listen, by the way, with Saka, I'm not sort of saying that because he scored these goals against France. And I think he ended the World Cup with three assists and three goals, which is pretty decent numbers for a guy who didn't play a lot of minutes.

23:21It was just, it just feels remarkable to me that one of your best players just doesn't get on the pitch at all in a World Cup semifinal. but you know I think maybe the thing that we could hope for most this summer is that you know when he does go away now and does get some holidays and does get some rest that you know for everything that we hope we're going to do in the transfer market one of the best things that could happen to this team is Bakayo Saka getting back to like proper 100 % full fitness and sharpness and rhythm for Arsenal next season. Totally. Yeah, my feeling is that one swallow does not make a summer, but there was encouragement here for sure and a reminder of how good Saka can be, how devastating he can be, how he can impact games at the highest level.

24:12So I'm hoping, and to be honest, I was almost as encouraged by his interview as his performance in terms of the positivity with which he spoke and talking about his fitness, his availability, his desire. He's got a very well-earned rest right now. And really that's what he needs more than anything is rest. Particularly with, you know, if he's been carrying an Achilles issue, tendinopathy. I mean, it's basically rest is the only thing he can do for it. So hopefully he gets the appropriate amount of that. And yeah, I hope, I hope that he can carry that kind of form into that. Yes, him, Declan Rice, who looked, you know, it was almost like performance art.

24:58It was like, how long can we play this man until he just collapses with exhaustion? And I think England had a problem there, by the way. I think England, they have some really terrific players, but I felt that in some key positions like Declan Rice's position or Harry Kane's, I just felt England didn't really have appropriate replacements or plan B that second layer I felt maybe wasn't quite there maybe with Rice I think that's fair when you look at the midfield options and it was Kabi Mainu and Jordan Henderson like I don't know what he's doing there really and he obviously got injured yeah he got injured in unfortunate fashion you know when it happened everyone was like look at what he did and then I saw actually the video of it and I was like I can't laugh at that That's just too horrible.

25:50It was too painful. I take your point about Rice. I think people will make a case that you could have brought someone like Adam Wharton maybe to the World Cup. I know they're not like for like, but maybe he gives you a different kind of option in midfield. I think with Kane, you've got Rashford, you've got Watkins, and you've got Ivan Toney. my issue or the my contention i'd say with with kane is that he is a bit indulged you know in in the same way that that cristiano ronaldo is for portugal and i don't think it's that watkins and tony and and rashford are as good when it comes to finishing as harry Kane but I think what they have physically in terms of how they can play in terms of how they can play a center forward role you know the the issue of Harry Kane just dropping deep and dropping off time and time and time again because he doesn't have the legs and won't play against the opposition center halves I do think that you know was a bit of an issue for England in particularly in the second game or that game against Argentina and some of the other games as well where I think, you know, they can occupy defenders in a way that Harry Kane can't.

27:14Can they score the goal that he scored, whoever it was that he scored against? There was one really good finish. I can't remember. A conga, I think it was. Right. So, you know, again, with all due respect, a little flat track bullish, but a brilliant finish. But maybe there's more to being a centre forward than just cracking them in because your team does need you to give you an outlet, to give you a way out in a game like the one against Argentina where he was nowhere to be seen. No, I think that's fair. And I think it's interesting. We're having similar conversations at the Euros two years ago about Harry Kane.

27:51And I don't like to say it, but there are a lot of positives to his game. He's an excellent striker, but he does force you to play in a particular way. way and you kind of have to accommodate him as you say um and at the last Euros it felt like Ollie Watkins was kind of on the cusp of overtaking him uh as the first choice striker it hasn't come to pass he's England captain he's a huge part of Tuchel's plans and I kind of think he still will be at the next Euros in two years time how old is he now 32 too. Yeah, I foresee him remaining part of the plan for England. But I also take your point that, you know, potentially, although he's, you know, nearly a decade younger than Ronaldo, there is, there are some parallels.

28:40Yeah, I'm just not sure England have a particularly compelling number nine alternative right now. That's one of the issues. Yeah. but maybe there are other ways that we could play I don't know I don't think Tuchel's going to make that call to move on from Kane but I take a point that there could be certainly something to explore there. Bellingham had a brilliant tournament didn't he really did yeah really good I mean like turned up and delivered game after game yeah showed his class and his quality and he just has that personality where he's able to impact games um he's the guy that you you know if you're focusing on the euros he is the guy you know not harry you're not you shouldn't be talking about how you're going to play with harry kane or how you're going to accommodate harry kane you're thinking you should be thinking about how do i get the maximum out of jude bellingham and that includes thinking about who you put around him and who you put ahead of him you know Well, yeah, because I do think there's a degree of duplication at times with Kane and Bellingham in terms of the spaces they want to operate in.

29:53But yeah, you're absolutely right. He's the guy you would hang your hat on. I suppose we should talk about, I mentioned him starting the Argentina game, but Morgan Rogers, Andrew. Yes. I mean, that was, was that a Saturday evening? Ornbaum? Yes. I couldn't tell you the time exactly because. It was evening here. Yeah. You were, you were sort of bewildered by, uh, by time zones, central, central mountain time, whatever you were on. Um, that was a bit of a surprise, a little bit of a shock. I have to say, um, when David dropped that, my phone started going in the back garden. I was, I was out in the back, uh, grilling some meat.

30:38So, I mean, listen, the, the, The story, as we understand it, is that Arsenal were very keen on this player. Mikel Arteta, in particular, very keen on this player. He was reportedly one of our main targets this summer, if not the main attacking target this summer. And then he's going to Chelsea for a fee of 117 million, which I think is obviously connected to the 116 million that Man City paid for Elliot Anderson.

31:11what can you tell us or what do you let me just say first I like this player a lot we had a conversation about him a couple of weeks ago where we both said we liked him we weren't 100 % sure where exactly he was going to fit where he would play would it be from the left would it be centrally there was a little bit of doubt in that sense it wasn't like right this guy's going to come in to do this and i will say that the fee of 117 million pounds you know i'm sort of like you know i like the player but for that money i need to be absolutely sure about you know what this guy is going to do and where he's going to do it um so i'm not like crazy upset at missing out on the player per se but i do have some concerns that a deal that we obviously were pursuing and wanted to get done didn't get done and we end up being gazumped or hijacked by Chelsea um and you know whatever the optics are it doesn't look great when that happens no and albeit a very different deal at a very different price there were some similarities to to the jeremy monger situation where arsenal looked poised to do that deal and then manchester city stole him are we are we doing too much poising are we are we overly poised too much admiring andrew that's what my that's what my twitter followers tell me right i don't want to hear it about admiring anymore yeah um it's a really interesting one this i mean it's an awful lot of money isn't it for morgan rogers and i'll yeah i've got a caveat on that but we'll come back to it but yeah yeah well yeah exactly and and my understanding is that arsenal had a valuation of the player which was closer to the 80 million pound mark um maybe there would have been a bit of flexibility to go beyond that but not to the level that that Chelsea committed Villa were insistent throughout.

33:19They wanted that transfer record for a British player, which had been set earlier in the window by City and Elliot Anderson. Another great example of City potentially distorting the market in a way that doesn't really help us. And yeah, well, Arsenal weren't going to go there. And I suspect Arsenal probably thought, well, if Rodgers wants us, then, you know, we may over time kind of grind that down. The trouble was that we were never the only club interested. You know, Rodgers had other suitors. I'd heard whispers about Chelsea in the weeks preceding their official approach. Hold your laughter, but Spurs were mentioned as well.

34:08So, yeah, there was a few clubs looking at this player. and I think evidently he was prepared to go to Chelsea, you know. I mean, when you think about the signing of Declan Rice, which, you know, is in a similar price point, the key to getting that deal over the line ultimately was the fact that Rice didn't want to go anywhere but Arsenal and City did come in and the price did get pushed. over the£100 million mark, and beyond the point where Arsenal were entirely comfortable. But throughout that, Rice was insistent that he wanted Arsenal and only Arsenal. And the reality is, for whatever reason, Morgan Rodgers did not feel that way.

34:58He was totally prepared to go to Chelsea. He's got some very good friends in that squad. He's just been at the World Cup with Declan Rice, Bakao Saka, Eberichi Eza and Nani Madweke. You know, let's... He must not have sat next to them on the bus, Andrew. That's all I can say. Clearly not. Clearly not. But yeah, he obviously was prepared to go there and Chelsea were prepared to give Villa what they want. And there's been a bit of tension between Arsenal and Villa over the last couple of years. It kind of... There was a bit of a row about Emile Smith-Rowe. Yeah, I was going to say, yeah. Yeah. Oli Watkins, there was a bit of a fallout over that, which was not particularly fair because Villa approached Arsenal about doing a deal for Watkins and then weren't happy at all with the level that Arsenal came in at.

35:49There's a similar situation with Esri Konza, where Arsenal like him, but the valuation's really far apart. So, you know, it's not like, I don't think relations are particularly strained, but they're maybe not the best that they could be. And when another club turn up and say, here's your asking price, here are the conditions that you've asked for, met, I suppose Villa are going to accept it. And Arsenal were contacted to see if they would be inclined to match or better what Chelsea had offered, and they declined. Right. I mean, listen, you can talk about the player, you can talk about his willingness to join a club that doesn't have European football, you know, if that might tell you something about him or, you know, whatever way you want to look at this, right?

36:38he chose to go to Chelsea. And, you know, it's one of those that if you, as you say, if you really, really, really wanted to come to Arsenal, then it becomes very difficult for another club to do a deal as quickly as this deal got done. What I sort of want to put to you is that you mentioned Arsenal had a valuation in mind of Morgan Rodgers, which was around the 80 million mark, which I think maybe at the start of the summer is not unreasonable, right? If you're looking at the market, you're saying that's not an unreasonable fee for an England international. Maybe it's a little on the light side.

37:26You might expect it to go up a little bit more, but Arsenal are now operating in a market where Elliot Anderson went for 116 million, where Sandro Tinali went for 94 million, where Mateus Fernandes went for 85-something million to Spurs, where today, Crescensio Somerville, and I know this is not quite Premier League or anything else, but Crescensio Somerville has gone from West Ham, a championship side, to Al-Hilal in Saudi Arabia, for 80 million or is going to go there for 80 million. I saw that, yeah. Which is kind of crazy. I mean, that's insane. But, you know, it is distinct. And you might say, well, the Saudi money, because of, you know, where it comes from, you can't really put it in the same bracket.

38:18But it does tell you something about where the market is generally, right? so do Arsenal need to rethink their valuations of players that they might well be looking at and targeting now because where the market was before the the the summer or before the last few weeks even when the Elliot Anderson thing went through and everything went kind of through the roof there do Arsenal have to reconsider like whatever their valuations are they might people will say well they're right to hold their valuation on that if they value the player at that and they shouldn't pay a penny more than that but maybe the reality of that kind of approach is that you don't get the player that you really want because the market is dictating the prices rightly wrongly whatever else, you can only operate within the reality that you live in, right?

39:16You can't just pretend, well, if I think he's valued at 80 million, then he's only worth 80 million. But the other names I've mentioned, the other deals I've done, they push that price higher. Absolutely. And, you know, the 105 million we paid for Declan Rice, by the way, that was three years ago. and prices inflate fast in football. I think it's a really interesting debate because on the one hand, you feel like saying, well, credit to the club, they've got a valuation in place. And I don't think they're numbers they pluck from midair. I believe there's sort of data and modelling involved in how they project those kinds of value.

40:04But there's also the issue of kind of scarcity. I mean, Arsenal are Premier League champions, Champions League finalists. There is a finite number of players on the market who can improve this squad. And I kind of think if you find one, you may have to be prepared to pay more than you anticipate to get them. Now, if you value a player, 80 million, 117 is a big jump. Don't get me wrong. maybe too big but yeah that kind of inflexibility that idea of we're gonna hold our ground and stick to our principles and you know gauge players according to our own valuation that's all very well and good but what if the market dictates that those players are simply going elsewhere and what are you choosing from at that point in time yeah i mean listen we should say as well you know the the story that emerged today about uh aljandro garnacho moving to aston villa yeah you know that kind of i'm no i can't really say money laundering but uh that kind of thing is is no surprise right because you know not money laundering yeah not money laundering but you know it happened before didn't it where Chelsea paid, there was a deal between the two clubs and then Chelsea paid seven trillion for like an Aston Villa youth kid or something like that.

41:38I can't remember exactly how it worked. So, you know, there's shenanigans, can we say, financial shenanigans, definitely not money laundering. You know, that's not what was being said at all, even though I clearly said it, but I didn't mean it. I should have used the word allegedly. Anyway, people know where I'm going with this, right? So Chelsea can potentially, with their£117 million outlay, have an agreement with Aston Villa as part of that deal. That, you know, a transfer of Garnaccio, even if it's a loan deal with an obligation or whatever, goes a significant way to offset some of the money that they've spent on this player.

42:19So it allows them to buy the player, despite the fact they've spent billions over the last few seasons and, you know, financially are kind of all over the place. Arsenal, you know, can't do that or won't do that, but have missed out on a key player. And I suppose the question I have for you now is, you know, whatever we feel about it as fans is one thing. You can live with it. You can be unhappy about it. You can think we've missed our main target, or you can be happy that we haven't spent that much money on a player who you don't think is worth that much money, which I completely get, right? But if you're Mikel Arteta, what are you thinking now?

43:00If you're Mikel Arteta and he is the guy that you've identified as, you know, my sort of half-arsed analysis of this was that part of the strategy of this summer is to add more goals and assists from midfield. and I think he's a guy who can pretty obviously do that for you, right? He has a good record in front of goal and he does create things and he gives you a little bit of sort of unpredictability, which is something we've been missing. So I think Mikel Arteta identifying this guy's skill set as something that the team is missing and then not getting that player, do you feel like that is going to be a frustration to him or will Arsenal have the sort of the workings as they did in the past, you know, the Mudrik to Trossard pivot, do they have that in their back pocket?

43:53Well, I mean, it's interesting you mentioned Mudrik. The last time Arsenal were kind of presumpt by Chelsea on the deal of this kind of size and scale, it worked out brilliantly for us. I do think Morgan Rodgers is a very different case in his defence. And this is a Premier League established player. It was just more about the reaction rather than the comparison of the, you know, the two deals or whatever. I mean, one thing I don't know, and I hold my hands up on this kind of from a journalistic perspective, is to what degree Mikel Arteta is part of that decision that Rodgers exists outside of the valuation?

44:36you know that essentially he's not worth the money that's paid i have to think that he would not be too bothered about that like i my gut says that michael is a guy who's sort of very driven by the talent and his desire to work with the talent and it's somebody else's job and somebody else's department to make the numbers add up um what do you think i don't know i mean i think he he likes what he likes you know i think for a bit anyway yeah until he doesn't you know that's the thing about michael you know you're the the the greatest thing since sliced bread until you're not you know and we've seen that happen before i guess it is all about what the alternatives are and what the way we respond to this.

45:29Maybe calling it a setback is not quite the right way, but if a lot of planning and a lot of back-channel stuff has gone into the Morgan Rogers deal, how we respond to that and what we've got as alternative options, maybe he's comfortable enough with that. Maybe he feels like, well, you know, if we thought, you know, 80 million was in, it's gone to 117 million. That's a 37 million difference. I could get a left back for that. Yeah, I mean, very seriously, that could be another sign. You know, that's the way it might go in that sense. But it will really be about, you know, who's the guy we're going to get that isn't Morgan Rodgers.

46:15Like if we want Morgan Rodgers and we haven't got him, who else? Who's the guy? Who have they got lined up, if not as sort of second choice or third choice, but as an alternative option? Because I guess you have to plan for the idea that like, despite how hard you work or whatever else, that a deal might not go through for all kinds of reasons. Yeah, I'm just envisaging a meeting with, you know, Rich Garlick and Andre Huberto sitting down with Mikau and sort of saying, we can get you Morgan Rogers, but it may mean you're not able to sign a left back this summer. And Mikhail would just be like, hmm, like really ruminating on it.

46:58I love me a left back. Yeah, we won't. Okay, let's not do it just in case I decide at the last minute I want another left back. Yeah. Well, who else? I have to be honest, I'm not convinced anyone really knows. Like there's a lot of reporting from myself included about Bradley Barcola being somebody that Arsenal like. But that's a really difficult deal to do. I mean, PSG are currently saying that player's not for sale. Obviously, that may change if the right offer comes in or their transfer business might dictate that. But they value him in a similar region to what Chelsea have paid for Morgan Rodgers.

47:39So if Arsenal balked at that, are they going to pay that sort of money for Barca? Maybe they think he's better or got a higher ceiling, but I'm not so sure. I think it's a hard... Yeah, so I have my doubts about that. But I mean, is that not what we're going to have to pay for that kind of player or that level of player, let's say with that sort of stature, unless we go and do something a little bit different and listen you know we've talked a little bit about Christos Solis but you know I feel and I said this to you maybe last week or the last time we spoke there is part of me that feels like Arsenal really really need to use the juice of being Premier League champions and Champions League finalists to go out and sort of get that player who has a bit of wow factor because they are out there and doing it you know what I mean Yeah, I agree.

48:36And actually, as I said a little bit earlier, as much as I respect Arsenal's stance on this, I do think, you know, sometimes you've got to pay a premium. Sometimes you've got to pay more money. I mean, we did it on Declan Rice and it proved to be one of the best moves we could have made. I mean, Arsenal went into that summer thinking maybe we get this guy for 70, 80 million. It didn't happen. They had to push the boat out, but he was the right guy. Now, is Rodgers Declan Rice? Perhaps not. Is Barkler Declan Rice? Perhaps not. But I don't know. I almost hope that rather than saying, OK, who can we get for 80 million?

49:12I almost hope Arsenal kind of look upwards in terms of what's attainable and the sort of talent they could land. And maybe it's a case a bit like the Mesut Ozil summer where something, something shakes out at a big club. That means a player we're not currently thinking about or talking about becomes available. But yeah, I would be, I would be fibbing if I said I knew exactly where Arsenal were going to go next. I'm not sure. Do you have an instinct? No, I don't. I don't. I mean, the optimistic part of me, the glass half full part of me wants to think that Arsenal are, you know, super prepared for this summer and they have their ducks in a row and they want to keep things quiet.

50:05And in order to get a deal like this done, the best way to do it is to, you know, to keep it under the radar as much as possible. I'm not sure how possible that is these days, really, you know, with the way transfer reporting is and works. But, you know, the glass half full part of me goes, I think we might have just, you know, we poised and we poised too long. So I don't quite know what it is. I mean, if they don't have anything on the fucking whiteboard, then we're in big trouble. We're in big trouble. But who it is? Like, I've got no clue. And it's interesting, by the way, Solis, I mean, that deal is sort of progressing, agreed in principle.

50:51Something interesting there is that Bruges were like, if somebody wants to sign Solis this summer, it's going to be€40 million. They were pretty clear about that. It's got to be a club record fee. It's got to be that price. and Arsenal just came in and met it. So it's interesting, like, whether that's because it was a lower fee and they were that much more comfortable with it, whether it's because that matches their own internal assessment of the player's value. I don't know, but it's not as if Arsenal are being cheap on every deal, you know, and kind of haggling indefinitely. When they accept the price or when they think it's reasonable or fair, you know, they are prepared to, to action it.

51:32Um, it just was never the case with Rogers and I guess they were waiting for movement that ended up not happening. Yeah. Well, we'll wait and see what they do. Uh, I mean, I think before we go into part two, we need to talk a little bit about Bruno Gimeraj as well. Uh, it was quite funny. I sort of wrote this morning in the blog that it's gone very, very quiet on this one. So I don't know if we were, we were poising, you know, some more, um, mega poising. You know, but that seems to have taken a little bit of a turn today with some reporting that talks are going on between the clubs. Then there's the Newcastle dude who's saying, no, there's no talks whatsoever.

52:11Then he releases an article to say Arsenal are about to step up their pursuit of Bruno Gimaraes. It seems like Newcastle have a very fixed idea of the kind of fee they want to make this deal happen. And does the Morgan Rodgers situation, the way that has played out, does that put pressure on Arsenal to sort of accept that that's what Newcastle want? And if they really, really want this player, negotiating and haggling is probably not going to get them what they want. And therefore, they're just going to have to pay the price. feels a bit like you're being dictated to, but at the same time, when you do miss your main target, when you miss out on someone like Rodgers, if you miss Gimmarais because you're not prepared to reach the valuation that Newcastle have, it does start to look a little difficult for Andrea Berta and for the club, generally speaking.

53:18I think so, yeah. When you say Arsenal under pressure, I think Andre Berta probably is under a little bit of pressure at this point in the window. And you've got to remember as well, this is a summer in which Arsenal are hoping to negotiate a new contract for Mikel Arteta as Arsenal manager. So keeping him happy is of paramount importance. So maybe there is a little kind of a nudge towards trying to get Bruno over the line. I must say, like, yeah, like the guy I would be ploughing more money into would probably not be... The 28-year-old. The 28-year-old. Yeah. Yeah. I sort of would rather take that gamble on a younger talent like a Rodgers.

54:07But, well, that opportunity is gone for Arsenal at this point in time. So, yeah, it's an interesting one. I mean, Newcastle are still saying Bruno's not for sale, but a player of that age is for sale at the right price, I believe. I wouldn't argue with that. I wouldn't argue with that. It's just, again, it seems there's like a 20, 25 million discrepancy, which, you know. That could be a left back, Andrew. It could be another left back, but let's also be honest about that and say that is a lot of fucking money. it's 25 million pounds i know we lose sight sometimes of fees when you know transfers come into play and everyone's like oh what's another five million what's another you know it's a lot it's a lot of money but maybe in this particular summer when arsenal have earned a lot of money commercially we're seeing that they're about to renew the uh the sponsorship deal with emirates which i'm sure is on very very favorable terms now that arsenal are premier league champions There's the prize money.

55:13There's the prize money of getting to the Champions League final. There's all the commercial revenue, all that kind of stuff. That maybe they're just going to have to bite the bullet. Maybe. Maybe. Because where do they go? Like, you know, if it's not Bruno, where do they go then? Like, what's the alternative to that? You know, we haven't really heard a great deal about alternative targets, you know, which again might be part of the internal strategy. You get these names out there and in the background, Don Platespinner is doing his, you know, his plates. And there's a lot of contact with other players and alternative options in the background.

55:57But we haven't really heard too much about an alternative to Bruno Gimaraes if that one doesn't come through. No, I mean, I saw a story today that Alex Scott has rejected a contract with Bournemouth. Certainly he is on that list for Arsenal, but Bournemouth being very stubborn right now, intransigent on the prospect of losing either Scott or indeed Kruppi, who Arsenal were linked with towards the start of the window. They really want to hang on to both those players. you know there's been a bit of talk about Buwadi but that's a very different profile to Bruno certainly in terms of age and experience so yeah it's and that's a hundred million deal that's more expensive yeah that's more expensive right but I mean he's a younger player obviously but you know the balance there between what you you need from that player straight away versus you know his long-term potential is a consideration as well yeah but it feels like if they're looking for Bruno, they're not trying to take a gamble in that position right now.

57:01They clearly want a player who's sort of plug and play ready to go. One last question before we go into the break. Yeah. Julian Alvarez linked with Arsenal but I'm sure you've seen the quotes today. Atletico Madrid saying we won't sell him for 100 million, 150 million 200 million. They seem quite intransigent in that sense and not just about Barcelona who I think could offer 500 million and they still get told to go fuck themselves by Atletico Madrid at this point. All that social media bounce would be for nothing if they just gave in and sold him. So they can't do that. They've got to save face for likes and clout on the internet.

57:42But, you know, when I think about what this team needs and what this squad needs and where it needs the sort of high-quality addition, it is in an attacking sense, right? It is in the attacking part of the pitch where I feel like the biggest improvement could be made via the transfer market. Are you hearing anything about any other potential attacking targets beyond like, oh, well, they like Kruppi or they like Barcala? Are you surprised that there aren't more names doing the rounds? Or again, could this be part of, you know, keeping everything stum and below deck until such time as it's, you know, time to get on the Mikel Arteta or the Andrea Berta fun transfer boat?

58:29Yeah, I mean, we did a story about Solis a while back and that one panned out. You know, we've been following the Rodgers thing pretty closely and there was a feeling that that might ultimately happen. And it hasn't. In terms of where Arsenal go beyond that, as I said, I think, I don't think anyone's got any really clear indications at this point in time. Alvarez I've made after, I think it was last week on the show, wasn't it? Where I was saying like, don't rule it out entirely. You know, I can foresee why it might make sense for all parties. I did make inquiries after that in Madrid and the messaging was the same as you've seen publicly today, that this guy is not for sale and it doesn't matter if it's Barcelona, it doesn't matter if it's Arsenal, if it's Spain, if it's England, they do not want to let him go this summer.

59:17and I think it's at the point where I'm sort of inclined to believe them on that. You know, Barcelona can be so persuasive and persistent with these kinds of things that you have to take a pretty strong stance if you don't want it to happen and Atleti from the outside at least seem to be doing that. So no, it's a bit of a mystery to me exactly what Arsenal will do next. I mean, listen, the one thing we always say about Berta is he's got irons in the fire. So hopefully he's working on something that we're not yet across. All right. Well, look, we will obviously see what happens. I think given the World Cup is over and given players are back to preseason and all that kind of stuff now, there is, I think, an expectation that things will start moving a little quickly, right?

1:00:10that there's got to be something done. I mean, I think the solace is going to happen this week, from my understanding, that that's going to be announced. Maybe on Wednesday, we'll wait and see. But, you know, after that, it does feel like with all the distraction out of the way, the focus needs to be on getting a couple of deals done. I think so. I think so. And, you know, there's a bit of restlessness after the Rodgers. plot twist. So I think getting one in the door, at least in Solace, would be helpful. And I think people are looking for us to kick on and do a bit more than that too. All right.

1:00:50Right. We'll leave it there. It's quite a long part one, but we will be back with some of your questions and more in part two, right after this.

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1:02:06Welcome back to the Arsecast Extra. This is part two of the show where we answer the questions that you've sent to us on Blue Sky at gunnerblog.bsky.social and at arseblog.com. Also on the Arseblog Discord chat server, which you get access to if you are an Arseblog member on Patreon. Just a heads up, we are doing a small live event in Dublin next month. It is taking place on, fuck, Tuesday. Tuesday, not this Tuesday. Tuesday the 4th of August in a venue called the Sugar Club here in Dublin. It is not anything like the size of Union Chapel. The capacity is quite limited. It's cozy and it'll be fun, but we don't have that many tickets to give away.

1:02:57So we are going to put tickets on sale first to our Patreon members, to give them the first opportunities to buy tickets. And then if there are any left, they'll go on general sale. So that will happen tomorrow, three o 'clock tomorrow. I'll put a post up on Patreon. You can buy tickets to our show at the Sugar Club. It'll be myself and yourself. Elliot will be over. I think Clive and Tim will be there as well. So we'll have a nice chat about all the nothing that we've done, all the poising that we're doing in the transfer market and all the other bits and bobs that are going on ahead of the game against Rail Betis, which takes place on the Wednesday.

1:03:37So patreon.com forward slash arseblog. If you're not already a member, you can sign up now ahead of the new season, get access to all the content that we do, and also have a chance to get, have the best chance to get tickets for our live show in Dublin. So there you go. Right. Let me ask you this one to start off because it's about transfers. As many of the questions are this evening, Simon Harrington says, there's long been a suggestion we're the easiest team to deal with when we're we're not the easiest team to deal with rather when we're negotiating to buy players does this perception of us as difficult impact on our seeming inability to sell players to that's a good question i do think that perception does exist i would say like speaking to people in the market um i think arsenal is seen as a club that uh yeah can be tricky are we annoying i think um what's the word i'm trying to we don't always move with great we're not very agile sometimes right um i've heard people say previously like the the approval process can be a bit protracted in terms of kind of formalizing interest.

1:04:53Um, and there is this kind of secondary element, which is that Andrea Berta has this style where he explores multiple options and, you know, that can become a, a complicating factor. Um, if you wish to really discover the parameters of each individual deal before you proceed with something, that's an exercise that takes time. Does that affect our ability to sell? Maybe. Although, I mean, Arsenal have been historically pretty poor sellers. So you'd think buyers would come thinking, might get myself a bargain here. Get a free player, just fucking keep chipping away at Arsenal. It's like, oh, here, have him.

1:05:37I think so much of football is relationships. There's one thing I would say. You know, you speak about those apparently independent deals between Villa and Chelsea, but those speak to various things, but among them a kind of ease of relationship between those two clubs and sort of straightforward communication. Whereas I'm not sure Arsenal have that closeness or proximity to teams in that same way. I mean, there have been times when that's been the case. The Ezzed deal being a great example where I think Tim Lewis's friendship with Steve Parrish was pretty key to that deal getting done. But Andrea Berta has only been in England a year.

1:06:25Does he have the same strength of relationship with, you know, his equivalents at the Premier League clubs as some of his counterparts do? I don't know. Does he have the communication skills? That's a really good question. I mean, it's a genuine question, though, because, you know, I know it can be difficult. You know, the nuance of language is really important, right? And when you're learning a second language or a third language or whatever it might be for Andrea Breda, definitely his third, at least, because obviously he'd be fluent in Spanish. But I think going from Italian to Spanish is one thing.

1:07:04But learning a new language as a man of his age, you know, is really not easy, you know. And I think I do wonder or have wondered at times if that might be, you know, a slight issue in terms of how contacts go and negotiations go. So, you know, does something he say come across as very blunt and forthright? Because that's the easiest way to say it in a language that he's still not, let's say, 100 % fluent in, in the way that Mikel Arteta is. But Mikel Arteta has been, you know, in English speaking countries for whatever, half his life, more than half his life, you know? Yeah. And Andro didn't speak the best English when he arrived.

1:07:49so there's degrees to which he's playing catch up there I mean with a club like Villa it's predominantly a Spanish language club you know Monchi's I think still an advisor there Alabe's the sporting director Emery's the manager he shouldn't be a barrier in a deal like the Morgan Rodgers deal necessarily but it might be with certain other teams other clubs other players yeah it's it's I mean last summer we were really effective in the market and really efficient. And Andrea Berta was being hailed as a genius, you know, all over the internet. So the truth probably lies somewhere in between. I think last summer's efficiency in the market was really a consequence of kind of the owners loosening their grip on the funds and saying, let's go and do it and let's make it happen.

1:08:49I mean, in negotiations, he would be supported by somebody like James King, who is an English speaker, naturally, natively. So you'd think that between them, they could kind of eradicate that issue. Football is so international now. But it's an interesting idea. I mean, Arsenal, there's been quite a lot of change at Arsenal. At board level, executive level, you know, the relationships we maybe had in the kind of Edu era. some good, some less good, might not be as established at this point in time. So, yeah, very interesting question. In terms of how it affects us as selling players, I could see how it could have an impact for sure.

1:09:31Yeah, I mean, that's an aspect of the summer, I think, that people are looking at as well because there are players who I think, I don't want to say surplus to requirements, But if Fabio Vieira, Gabriel Jesus, Rhys Nelson, like they showed a video of the players returning to training the other day and I was like, who's that guy? And then I was like, oh, it's Rhys Nelson. I just hadn't seen him for so long and you kind of forget that he's still there, you know. But, you know, there has to be, regardless of how much we've earned from a prize money point of view because of how good we've been because of what we achieved, this sort of perennial discussion about, like, can we actually sell players we don't really want for anything approaching reasonable money is one we keep having to ask.

1:10:26And the answer, generally speaking, is no. You know, at what point does that just become who you are? You know, unless you're like selling a player that nobody really wants to sell. And I recognize the difficulty of selling, in inverted commas, damaged goods or players who've been underwhelming, etc., etc. But I do think other clubs manage to do that better than we do and have done historically. I just wonder, is it sort of embedded, as you say, in the kind of the perception of our DNA? Very interesting. I mean, I have a sort of follow on question on the topic of players that you perhaps don't really want to sell.

1:11:08But can I find it? That is the question. Yeah. Here we go. Maximum Gooner 97 has a Myles Lewis Skelly question. and they say, should we sell him this summer while his stock is high after starting in a Champions League final and team seeing what he can do when given a chance? I would love to see him stay and get run in the team. But his situation reminds me of Ainsley Maitland-Niles back in the summer of 2020. He'd just started in the FA Cup final, had a great game. We then got an offer for him from Wolves in the summer, which we turned down. He stuck around and didn't play, which caused his value to decrease.

1:11:51does it feel similar with Miles or is he just a better player than Ainsley was? Yeah, the Ainsley thing was weird, wasn't it? Because there was that offer from Wolves and did we turn it down or was it Everton that he was going to go to and then that fell through and he wasn't really happy about it on social media? Seems to recall we turned down about 15 million from Wolves. Right. I've got a memory of that in 2020. with Miles like we talked about him maybe last week the week before and we were sort of saying well if Bruno comes in and if Morgan Rogers comes in you've got Eze and you've got Martin Odegaard and you've got Mikel Marino and you've got Declan Rice and you've got Martin Zubimendi you know you you look at the number of players versus the number of minutes versus you know how many players can play at any one time and you sort of wonder like, well, someone's going to miss out.

1:12:50Is it going to be Miles? It's not going to be two new signings. If you're spending the money on them, their players you're planning on using. The thing I would say, though, is that Rodgers has fallen through. The Bruno Gimaraes deal appears to be quite complicated still. Well, I think it could be simple, but I think what we know about the way Arsenal operate makes it complicated, right? that they have their valuation, and if it's too big, they probably won't pull the trigger in that regard. So maybe there are other options that they have available to them. Miles has had the summer off. He did come into the team, do really well, play the Champions League final.

1:13:34When you think about the start to the season and the players that we might have available at anything approaching 100 % fitness who will have had a summer off, who will have had a full preseason and are sort of there ready to go from the start. He is one of those in midfield. Odegaard's been at the World Cup. Bruno Gimaraes, if he comes, has been at the World Cup. Rodgers, even if he came, would have been at the World Cup. Rice at the World Cup. Zubimendi, I know he didn't play a great deal, at the World Cup. Marino at the World Cup. And his situation is a bit different because I think the World Cup was very useful for him, as it was for Odegaard, by the way, as well, because of how long they spent out injured.

1:14:13I think, you know, the World Cup has been useful for those two guys. But, you know, I sort of, I understand where the question is coming from, but with the uncertainty over where we are in terms of potential incomings, I think my answer would be no. At this point. Yeah, I, listen, my gut reaction is I don't want miles to be sold this summer. But I find it an interesting question because I think it lands upon that thing of to really maximise a player's value. Sometimes you have to sell them at a moment where it's not wholly comfortable. We've had similar conversations about Ethan Ranieri as well.

1:14:52But Myles in March looked like he was out the door. And obviously he had that resurgence and started the Champions League final. But, you know, is that enough? I mean, I think it probably is enough on balance to keep his place in the club. But if a suitor came forward with a valuation that was attractive, it'd have to be a conversation internally at Arsenal. It'd have to be something they thought about. But yeah, I like the thinking. I think it's the right kind of thinking to generate more money through sales, but I'm not sure Miles is necessarily the right case. Yeah, but then it becomes like, well, we've sold miles, but we still have Vieira and we still have Gabriel Jesus and we still have these guys that people, you know, I don't want to say are sick of, but kind of recognize probably need to be somewhere else at this point, you know.

1:15:54and that I think is probably the way that people will measure the way Andrea Burtis sells. It won't be by selling Miles or selling Ethan, even if we get really good money for those two, and there's a hard sell for the fan bases to sell two of those players in one summer, right? That would be really, really difficult. it is about how you can get value from players who've been peripheral or fallen by the wayside a little that's true yeah and we've got a few of those to try and shift um have you got a question i think i do hang on here's one from square bollock on the discord it's an unfortunate medical condition.

1:16:49They say, putting aside all the transfer nonsense, how dare you, do you think Mikel is going to do any major tactical tweaks to the team for the upcoming season? I understand last season very much became a results-before-style system, but now with a Premier League title under our belt and managerial changes in the league, do you think Arsenal will play with a bit more swagger?

1:17:16without wishing to dodge the question I think it will depend on the signings he gets and I also I don't know how much we'll be able to infer about the way Arsenal start the season just because of the amount of players that may not be featuring so yeah he always makes tweaks he always makes adaptations but I'm not anticipating sweeping changes what about you?

1:17:44again, I think like you, it depends on the signings. You know, a certain player could transform, not transform necessarily, but could to some extent change the dynamic of how you play or how you're able to play, right? So it would depend on that. I'd like to think we could bring in the kind of attacker that could be a bit liberating or be or feel a bit liberating in terms of how we play. I think I would like to see us be a bit more 6 and 2 8s than double pivot and a 10-ish as we were last season. I think you get more attacking juice from your team, I think. and we do have the players who can play there.

1:18:39Zubimendi talked about miles. I think Declan Rice can do that job. Bruno Gimaraes maybe would be an eight. But you've got Marino, Odegaard, Wuneri perhaps, Eze in there. I would like to see a bit more focus on that because I think we've got strikers who need service, different kinds of service. And I think you're better served if you've got a bit more focus on what you're doing in the final third, particularly as, you know, we've got where we've got by building a really strong defensive platform. You know, that's not something I think we need to work on anymore. I think we need to look at where we can be, where we can be better and where we can be better is creativity, making chances and taking those chances.

1:19:28So if that isn't something that has occurred to Mikel Arteta, I'd be really, really surprised. how that plays out tactically again may depend on who we bring in but yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see something a little different next season but quite what we'll wait and see On that theme or related to that theme at any rate Kevin Campbell Soup says Do either of you worry about our ability to attract top attacking talent? Very few of the best forwards in the world play in the Premier League anymore perhaps because of its attritional meat grinder nature and Arsenal have developed a bit of a reputation as the meat grindiest of all teams.

1:20:07Meat grindiest. Do you think potential signings could be put off by this?

1:20:17Possibly. Possibly. It's not a great league if you look into stat pad, I would say. No. No, like if you want to be scoring loads of goals, go to the Bundesliga and do it against, you know, some of the lower teams there, as, you know, I think that might connect with some people. It feels like the Premier League is a more difficult league in which to score goals than it used to be. Whether that translates into a player being

1:20:53specifically disinclined to join Arsenal, I'm not 100 % sure. What I would say, though, is that under Mikel Arteta, Arsenal are a very structured team where individualism is not necessarily, I don't want to say welcomed.

1:21:21because Bakayo Saka, for example, and Eber Echeza are players who can produce those moments of individualism. Saka, when he's at his best, when he's 100 % fit, you know, is one of those guys, you know, who comes close to being that kind of break a game open forward that I think we need. But I would understand if, you know, a sort of Alexis Sanchez-esque kind of player who I think might be useful for Arsenal, would wonder if within the structures that we have under Mikel Arteta, he would be allowed to express himself to the way that might get the best out of his particular style, if that makes sense.

1:22:05Yeah, yeah. It was interesting to hear that in the case of Rodgers, we hear Mikel Arteta had kind of indicated he saw him predominantly predominantly playing off that left-hand side. I guess in not entirely dissimilar fashion to an Alexis Sanchez, you know, I guess that's the kind of player he's looking for on that flank, but there aren't too many of them around. That's for sure. That is for sure.

1:22:35I think I had a follow-up here again on the transfer theme from Wcampo 33. And they just said, did anyone stand out from the world cup who you previously knew little about and might like to see at Arsenal. And they offer Norway's left winger Noosa looked fun. He did, but I think we knew about him. He did look kind of fun, but I have to say, I don't think there was a real breakthrough, breakout player in this World Cup. It was about the established talent, wasn't it? More than somebody making their mark. The guy who looked quite good from Mexico, what's his name, Quinones? Julien Quinonez yeah you know but he's 29 years of age he's playing in Saudi you know there's nothing there that makes you think right because of his World Cup we should go all in on that guy no so no the man day of Ivory Coast did you like which sort of him yeah yeah I didn't see much of the Ivory Coast in this particular tournament but I know his name obviously and he's been he's been doing the rounds linked with Liverpool I think and yeah I have seen him linked with us, whether spuriously or not.

1:23:47Linked with PSG too, which could have an impact potentially for Bradley Barclay. Yeah. Yeah. There was another guy who scored a couple of nice goals for Ivory Coast, a guy called Nicola Pepe. Never. He looked like an interesting prospect. Never heard of him. Maybe we should get some agents on the case and see if they can fashion a deal. Let them earn their commission, eh? What about this one? Ginger Vigneault on Blue Sky says, given reports Barcelona are looking to sell, do you think Arsenal should go for Ferran Torres? It seems he is a versatile forward with a high technical level, some Premier League experience, and quite a high floor, if not necessarily a high ceiling.

1:24:32Yeah, I mean, his reputation in Spain is a little bit that he's a guy who misses a lot of chances. Now, he was super clinical in the World Cup final, scored one very good finish and then would have had another were it not for a marginal offside. I think he's a really good footballer, someone who works the channels, can link the play, runs in behind. Yeah, I like Ferran Torres a lot. Is he necessarily what we need or is he precisely what we need? I'm not so sure, but he's a player I like. And yeah, if he was available, I would hope that Arsenal would be in that conversation. What do you think? I know he's a player that Mikel Arteta likes because we did try to sign him before.

1:25:19Whether he's exactly what we need now, I don't know. As you say, the market is quite limited, isn't it? And if Barcelona want to sell, I wouldn't be surprised if we were asked or if we ask to sort of be kept aware of the situation. But I don't know.

1:25:46Yeah, he is a bit, he is hit and miss. Like I think he frustrates the Barcelona fans. But maybe the Barcelona fans have been used to Messi and Suarez and Lewandowski and these guys who are very, very clinical. So they're probably, they're spoiled a bit, you know? So I don't know. I don't know. There's a lot going on or probably a lot going on behind the scenes of these transfers. What else have we got? Let's see. It's half nine now. Yeah. You're on your last slate. I'm fading here. You're fading badly. Okay. We've got to do it then. We've got to ask you the big question. Yeah. the one that people have been hanging on for all summer my dms have been lighting up andrew people have been sliding into your dms the way cheese slides off a pizza the deep dish thing the deep dish experience did you do it and what was it like how do you uh how do you judge this culinary delight yes i did do it i went with my two co-hosts for the show i was doing on my penultimate night in Chicago.

1:27:02We couldn't get into Pequod's. No. No, Pequod's was the people's choice, but we could get into Lou Malnati's. You didn't tell them who you were. Did you not say, do you know who, do you know who we are? We're doing a world cup show on the thing you need a stick for. Yeah, that's true. But none of them knew what a fire stick was. So we couldn't get in. And then we, yeah, went to Lou Malnati's and I ate the deep dish. Was it big? No, I had a little personal size one. Right. But that is big because it's deep, Andrew. That's the thing. That's it. The volume of it is significant. It's got some girth.

1:27:44Yeah. It's got the tomato like on the top almost. And this one had like sausage meat in it. It was all right. The dough is almost like, I want to say like, it's more like a pastry. Do you know what I mean? Like a kind of short crust. Pie crust. Pie. Yeah. It's really more of a pie than a pizza. I found it very filling. I had to take some home with me in a little box. And overall, I would say I was not, I was glad to have the kind of tourist experience of eating it. but I would say not sufficiently that I would order it over what they call a tavern style kind of thin crust pizza. Chef reaction marks out of 10 style?

1:28:36Out of 10?

1:28:40I mean, six. Okay. I like pizza. Yeah. So it's ticking a lot of the right boxes, but yeah, I'm not convinced it's an improvement. on a on an actual normal pizza it's just a different style it's just a different style that exists in its own world i guess yeah but yeah i know i know what you mean about um pizza preference in that sense what what was before i let you go what was the the best thing you ate out there what was the best food you had oh that's a good question you know best food i ate in america i i went for a very good burger actually on my last day a place called au cheval okay there's one in new york i'm assured right and they're famous for their cheeseburger okay the single cheeseburger is called on the menu the single cheeseburger but it comes with two cheeseburgers in it so what that's the most american thing i've ever seen a single cheeseburger is actually two but you can have it with egg and or bacon right it's basically a heart attack on a plate okay and it was good it was worth it i would say okay um a lot of good mexican food um yeah i went to some nice restaurants i mean it's it's good food out there it's really good food the bacon in this burger is like maple glaze so it has like a bit of sweetness to it it's sort of yeah it's it's it's almost jammy it's very nice okay okay now you've got me wanting a burger and it's half nine 20 to 10 at night and uh i'm not gonna do that so i'll have to fulfill my but i would say chicago it's still in its kind of fusion era do you know what i mean like every restaurant is like it's chinese food but in tacos you know there's a lot of that going on make your mind up guys okay well uh listen i'm glad you're uh glad you had a great experience out there and ate good food and had a good burger and you did try the pizza it's probably a little bit of an underwhelming um i don't think that it could ever live up to it to people's expectations no that's the that's the problem but it's a bit like you know people have you i'm gonna go to ireland right you've got to have stew yeah and then you have stew and it's like yeah it's nice it's all right i mean the problem is i've been sort of edging people haven't i like i've been stringing it out yeah i've built up the tension to a point where it couldn't possibly deliver but there is a picture on my on my j mcnick instagram account of said deep dish pizza so maybe Chicagoans will go and judge it.

1:31:33I know they're all going to shout and be like, you didn't go to the place. You went to the wrong one. You went to the, you had the wrong pizza. Well, listen, I'll have to come back in that case. All right. Well, look, it sounds like you had a nice time there and it's a place you go back to and yeah, get the right pizza this time. And we can. Exactly. It's good to have a reason. I've got to go back. Cause I got, yeah, I've got to explain that to Camille now. Camille, I know I've been away from you and our child for two months. I've got to go back. I'm afraid I ate the wrong pizza. Or someone could post it to me.

1:32:07That's the other option. Yeah, yeah, yeah. FedEx. FedEx Pequod's deep dish to James. They come in a box. Stick it in a letterbox and we're away. Freeze it up and send it over. All right. Let's let you go. I presume right now you're just going to go and get some sleep. I hope so. That's on the horizon, I would say. Yeah, pretty near horizon. Okay. All right. Well, listen, rest well. It is tiring coming across the Atlantic that way, particularly after a couple of months of hard work. So I hope you get some good sleep. Reminder, we will put the tickets for the Dublin thing on sale tomorrow. They'll be on sale at 3 p.m.

1:32:46on Patreon, patreon.com forward slash arseblog. I'll have something for you a bit later in the week as well, another podcast. For now, though, folks, take it easy. Thanks for being here as always, and we will catch you on the next one. Bye-bye.

1:33:24creative director stayed in the loop because agents are great, but they don't always know when a joke lands. She had one note. Tell listeners it only takes minutes to build an agent. So, minutes. Create your own AI agent today on Monday.com.