Arsecast Extra Episode 705 - 27.07.2026

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1:03Hello and welcome to another Arsecast Extra. As always, we're James from Gunnar Blog. James, good morning to you and congratulations. Congratulations, but what for, Andrew? Well, you as an ancestor of the fine county of Mayo in Ireland can today enjoy the celebrations as Mayo won their first All-Ireland Football Championship since 1951. There was a curse on the county, but it has been lifted. They beat Kerry yesterday at Croke Park. So you and all the Mayo people around the world and in Ireland should be very happy this morning.

1:46Andrew Allen: I have to say, actually, I did watch the highlights of the GAA final and it was quite something. I mean, those scenes at full time, 75 years. Is that right in sense? Yeah. That long? Yeah. And the curse is quite dark. The curse reportedly was, or allegedly we should say, was that they would not win the All-Ireland Final until every member of the 1951 team was dead, I believe. Well, that has happened now. So presumably it was real, the curse, all along. Yes, it obviously was. And now it's over. It's done and dusted and Mayo can enjoy themselves. They've been to a number of finals over the last few years in particular and lost them all.

2:35So people were really invested in the curse. So, yeah. Yeah. And by the way, if you've, because I sent it to a few of my new American friends, like some clips of the game and stuff like that. If you've never seen Gaelic football, it is worth just checking out the highlights because it's an interesting sport. Like, did you have any experience of it growing up? I didn't really play it that much, to be honest, because I was always more into football. And I went to a rugby school, so obviously I fucking hate rugby because of that. It's kind of football meets rugby meets basketball as well. Aussie rules, there's elements of that in it as well.

3:21Basically, you've got like rugby posts and you've got a goal, like a football goal. So you can score a goal or you can score points. So I think the final score yesterday was, was it 120 to 117? So one goal each, but 20 points. So you can kick the ball over the bar and score points. It's one of the funnest things here in Ireland every year when they have the All-Ireland football final and the All-Ireland hurling final. Hurling is essentially the same pitch, but you have lunatics with sticks smashing the ball at incredible speeds. um it's a it's a ridiculous game it's so much fun but you know every year there's this like it happens on social media there's a phenomenon of people going what the fuck is this yeah and they're just like i can't believe this is again why don't we have this game um so yeah yeah yeah it's been um yeah a great weekend for the for the people of mail i know my yeah but i listen

4:21Andrew Allen: they love a bandwagon my family i think they'd be lying if they said they'd followed the season closely, you know, throughout the campaign, but certainly they were tuning in for the final and very, very happy about it. So, yeah, congratulations to everyone in Mayer. Yeah, from the old village of Bohola. I did a little bit of a Googling there and I found an article from the Castle Bar Chronicle from 1887 in which a James McNicholas of Bohola County was found to have punched an oxen in the face at Barley Hill Farm. He was arrested and questioned to his motives and replied to the judge. He looked at me funny, so I sought to give him a sound thrashing.

5:03McNicholas was jailed for 19 days before he left the village of his own accord, telling locals he was going to make his fortune in London. He was never heard from again. Wow. Wow. I mean, we'll never know, will we? We'll never know if there's a connection there. Never will. There's nothing obvious there that would make us think that in any way. No, I haven't punched many cattle. That's the one thing I would say. I think that's fair. That's a good way, a good rule of thumb. Don't be punching oxen and bison and cows. There's no need for it, regardless of how they look at you. I agree. And horses as well.

5:43Leave them well alone. yeah well listen it's another sporting curse hoodoo lifted right in this summer we saw arsenal obviously win the premier league the knicks win were we cursed were we cursed and we didn't know it was that what what happened maybe somewhere somehow somebody put an end to the curse if you're out there please let yourself be known who do you think it might have been i think it might have been the lady with the sausage dog i think that might be sausage dog lady what's that she laid the curse or she broke she broke the curse i think yeah with some uh combination of annoying her neighbors and the sausage dog i think that must be it i think but you know i owe her a lot we owe her a lot um the knicks as well you mentioned yeah of course yeah uh were they cursed i think they probably were so i don't know what's happening i mean as i text you yesterday you said what does this all mean and i said potentially the apocalypse that wouldn't be a surprise yeah that's what's right around the corner yeah at least we get to enjoy ourselves for a few fleeting moments before you know everything ends that's true that's true well we next season is we're gearing up for it, Andrew.

7:07Everyone's coming back to training. Arsenal player friendly this week. That's right. Well, they played one at the weekend. They played against MK Dons behind closed doors. What was that? 3-0? 3-0. Goals from Ethan Warneri. Who else scored? Rhys Nelson and Kiara Koneil. He's from Northern Ireland, I think, isn't he? I believe so. Yes, and Christos Solis played. He's now an Arsenal player. He is. That happened since we last spoke on this podcast. He joined officially. I mean, not the biggest bolt from the blue, but good to see that at least one piece of business has been done in a summer where a lot of the business remains sort of out there in the world.

8:01It hasn't quite been completed yet. Well, no doubt we'll discuss some of that hypothetical business in due course. But yeah, funnily enough, I was meeting up with a few mates yesterday, one of whom is a Norwich fan. And since Solis signed for Arsenal, or since news of Arsenal's interest in him broke, I have spoken to kind of one or two Norwich fans.

8:27Andrew Allen: And safe to say they are struggling to get their head around the idea of Christos Solis at Arsenal. His previous stint in England, let's just say, did not go well. Right. But he was a very young man at the time, playing in a not particularly good team. So I'm very intrigued to see how he gets on. Obviously, he's had a brilliant campaign in Belgium with Bruges and he's matured as a player. And I think when you watch his highlights, he looks really interesting. He looks like a guy who can score goals off both feet. He's got good technique, got the ability to kind of shift it out of his feet and get shots off.

9:10I think it's all about just can he make that step to the Premier League? I think it is a big leap, that Belgian league, to the Premier League. I do agree. But, you know, we did some, you know, in the podcast we do every time you make a new signing over on Patreon, I was talking to Lewis about this. And actually, that sort of translation from the Belgian League to the Premier League is not quite the same as maybe some of the other leagues in that it's got a slightly higher level. I think it is interesting in the sense that, you know, on the one hand, it's sort of like uninspiring, right? To sign a guy from the Belgian league who nobody had really heard of until we were interested in.

9:54And then you're sort of wondering, can he make that step? I think what's interesting is that he did have a very good spell. I think it was at Fortuna Dusseldorf. And then he went to Club Bruges. Last season, he had 22 goals, 29 assists. In his two seasons there, he played 108 games and got 43 goals and 45 assists. I mean, they're brilliant, brilliant numbers. Tremendous numbers. And where I think it gets interesting is I can understand if you have some doubts about the ability to make the step. I don't think he can reproduce those numbers in the same way that I don't think Victor Jacarez was ever going to be able to reproduce the sort of scoring numbers he had for sporting, right?

10:35That doesn't make any sense. But he's 24 years of age. We've seen players come to England from Belgium before. And if this goes right, maybe we get a player who, you know, Solis might come to a Brentford or a Brighton or a Bournemouth or another team that begins with B of that ilk, right? And comes to the Premier League, has a couple of good seasons, and everyone's going, this is like a guy we should be interested in. We should be buying this guy. Do you think it's interesting, and I do, that maybe we're trying to get that player before they come to the Premier League and have the breakthrough somewhere else where then you have to pay double the price to get them in?

11:24You know, the Arteta quote that has been doing the rounds and is under the spotlight a little bit about how we need to be smart, fast, and ambitious in the transfer market this summer, which to varying degrees, you can debate those things. But this does feel like if it works, it could be the smart signing of the summer from an Arsenal perspective. We're cutting out the middleman, is what you're telling me. Yeah, kind of. I think there's something to that. I also think you've got to remember what's the role in the squad he's being bought for. I think he's being bought in the knowledge that he's probably not going to have to play every single game.

12:05You know, he's going to be somebody who probably initially plays a more of a supporting role and we'll see how he fares and what he can deliver. I also think in the current market, and we've seen some of the prices this summer for Morgan Rodgers or, you know, Elliot Anderson, whoever it might be, 40 million euros for a club of Arsenal's stature and ambition. it's not it's not a lot of money this market like to me it's a bit of a punt like i agree you know here's a guy who's putting up some really good numbers clearly there's a talent level there um well regarded 40 million euros yeah why not why not slightly roll the dice on this guy and if you're right as you suggest you know you have cut out the middleman and saved yourself another 20 million or whatever you might have to pay it's a bit of a gamble and you have to take those in the market sometimes uh they don't always work you know it's not the same sort of signing or the same sort of deal but you could look at a fabio vieira for example as someone who was in a similar price bracket um but again sorry yeah again was putting up good numbers playing in a slightly weaker league he was younger and there was more question about his development um but it didn't necessarily work out but solace you know he's a different character he's 24 he's played in england before.

13:43He knows the nation. He knows the league. Yeah, I'm very, very comfortable with Arsenal taking this particular punt. Sure. Yeah, I mean I think the comparison with Fabio Vieira I get. I think Solis has more consistency in his numbers. Particularly at Club Bruges, you know, 108 games and whatever I just said it was. Yeah, yeah. 34 caps for Greece as well. Yeah, 43 goals, 45 assists. So you're talking about 88 goal contributions in 108 games, whereas Fabio Vieira at Porto had 15 goals and 24 assists in 118 games. So more or less the same games, but the numbers were not quite at that level. Yeah, I sort of like it because, listen, value for money is a question or is a topic that gets people a bit vexed, right?

14:35But are you likely to get more value for money from Solis at 40 million or Barcola, like they're talking about 140, 150 million for him? Like maybe there's a difference in the players. But, you know, is there an argument to be made that you're going to get better value for money from Solis if he can produce decent numbers at Arsenal? I don't mind these kinds of signings. I feel like sometimes, particularly this summer, you know, we get a bit, I don't know if conservative is the right word, right? But we know how much Mikel Arteta values Premier League experience and how much that plays into the kinds of players that we bring in.

15:12And if not Premier League experience, then certainly plenty of experience elsewhere. You know, we don't do these kinds of signings, particularly in forward areas, too much, you know? We haven't, you know, look at the forwards that we've bought. Havertz and we don't need to ask whether he was bought as a forward or a midfielder Gabriel Jesus Leandro Trossard obviously came in and there's that middleman step if you're talking about the Brighton to Arsenal via Belgium pathway absolutely yeah I mean we haven't really spent big on forwards and we haven't bought a forward like this under Mikel Arteta so I'm really curious to see how it works out yeah and listen if you want a Premier League forward starting at 50 million quid Look at us with Noni Maduweke last summer, for example.

15:59This is£35 million, considerably cheaper. It's actually quite a vengerish signing in some respects, plucking a guy from a European league, good technical level, not necessarily a known quantity or a household name in this country, but it feels very arson in some respects. So, yeah, really intrigued to see how he gets on. And I think as well, and doubtless we'll go on to talk about this, there's a kind of understanding that this signing is not the only signing that Arsenal are hoping to make to strengthen the attack this summer. Well, that's been the messaging all along, hasn't it? It's been like with Solas, it was like, well, this won't deter them from going after Morgan Rodgers.

16:43The price obviously deterred Arsenal from going after Morgan Rodgers or the circumstances of Chelsea's interest and the way that Chelsea and Aston Villa could do a bit of horse trading, if you like, to sort of offset the fee. But Barcola was mentioned. And then over the weekend, a bit of a bombshell, a story that you and David Ornstein broke about Arsenal's interest in Vinicius Junior, which would be, well, there's the ambitious part of Mikel Arteta's quote, right? Super ambitious, super ambitious. I mean, we had a conversation last week, didn't we,

17:25Andrew Allen: about scarcity of players who could really elevate Arsenal and take them to another level. And the difficulty of identifying or landing that sort of player. I don't think on a sort of talent basis, there can be any question really that Vinicius is assigning that would take Arsenal to a new level. And not just talent-wise, I think in terms of the scale and the scope of the deal and probably the commercial implications as well, it would be absolutely enormous for this football club. So I'm not sure I've seen Arsenal go after anything quite this lofty, quite this ambitious since perhaps maybe since Mesut Ozil.

18:19You might make a case for Alexis Sanchez, but I don't think Alexis Sanchez had the kind of profile that Vinicius Junior enjoys right now at Real Madrid. No, I mean, even if you go back as far as Dennis Bergkamp, which is a signing that 100 % moved the needle at Arsenal. Like 100%. He was at Inter Milan. He was struggling a bit to come to terms with Italian football. It wasn't the right fit for him, you know? An amazing player, but sometimes it's the wrong place at the wrong time for a particular footballer, right? So there was an element of, if not quite rescuing Dennis Bergkamp. it wasn't like and I know it was a different time and everything else we live in a you know in an era where players and their reputations you know exist not just by what they do on the pitch but you know social media and how they sort of court the general public right so it is a different era but I do think something like this sort of goes beyond Bergkamp in that sense because of the profile of the player and because you're not exactly rescuing him per se from from Real Madrid it's such an interesting one it really is an interesting one for all kinds of reasons and on all kinds of levels so I sort of I don't really know where to begin with it I mean as you say in terms of pure talent what he could bring on the pitch what he could offer in the final third how he might impact the way we play.

19:51For me, there's no argument that he would raise the level, right? Would you go along with that? 100%.

20:02Andrew Allen: I mean, he's a phenomenal footballer, even in a sort of very underwhelming Brazilian campaign at the World Cup. I thought he scored one of the most beautiful goals in the tournament. He is a superstar, true Galactico. I think he's the fifth highest selling individual shirt in the world. So he is a star on a plane, probably unlike anybody at Arsenal currently. And I have to say, I mean, listen, it would be an astonishing coup if Arsenal could pull it off. I think it's an incredibly challenging deal to do for all kinds of reasons, principally financial. but the interesting aspects of the story for those who saw it or read it is that this is something that Arsenal seem very united on through all levels of the club and are really prepared to go for okay they wouldn't be they wouldn't be in that position if they hadn't discussed the details and the numbers and the feasibility.

21:20I think it's something that the club buoyed by its commercial success. And we saw a story the other day of an Emirates renewal that's going to be very lucrative. There's prize money. There's all kinds of commercial deals flooding into the club right now. They're probably going to post record revenues again in the next financial year. I think they feel they're at the point where they can go for it. Sure. Sure. I want to sort of go at it in these ways then. So can we talk about it financially? Then we can talk about it, you know, the other aspects of bringing in a player like this and dressing room dynamics and things like that.

21:59And then I think, you know, in terms of how it would, if he sort of shifts the needle on what we might do on the pitch, what does it mean for Arsenal as a football club to be able to sign a player like this and our reputation within the game, et cetera, et cetera. But let's look at it financially then, right? The numbers are probably huge. We've heard throughout this season that Arsenal have been cautious about overpaying, right? And that was evident in maybe the way the Morgan Rodgers thing played out. and you're sort of thinking, well, you know, could Arsenal have pushed it to that level? I don't know.

22:37Is there a connection between Arsenal not wanting to overpay for Morgan Rodgers and Arsenal's willingness to do a deal for Vinicius where the fee, despite the fact I think he's got a year left on his contract, I saw this was Sport, which is one of the Catalan daily, saying that Real Madrid won't accept anything less than$160 million. Otherwise, they won't talk. I think that's probably quite speculative. Nevertheless, there is going to be a fee to Real Madrid. That, to me, if there's a willingness on the part of Real Madrid to let him go, that to me seems like potentially the most straightforward aspect of this deal because club to club, they're going to get a transfer fee and whatever.

23:21But where it becomes more difficult and more challenging is for Arsenal to get to Real Madrid level when it comes to wages and salary and the overall package for Vinicius Junior, right? When you talk about, when you talked about in the story about how it was approved at all levels of the football club, surely that is something that Arsenal have discussed and decided that that is something that they are willing to do. I don't know if comfortable doing is the right way of putting it, but certainly willing to do. and I think when you sign a superstar, you've got to pay superstar wages, et cetera, et cetera, but they can't also be blind to the fact that there is also a knock-on effect that as soon as your highest paid player reaches a certain level, there exists a gulf between that guy and everybody else, which ultimately you have to try and squeeze as close together as possible, right?

24:24You know what I mean? You can't have these massive, massive gaps in wages when some of your other big players are not going to be earning as much as, let's say, Vinicius might?

24:34Andrew Allen: No, especially when you've got a new contract to negotiate with Declan Rice, for example. I think that's an interesting dynamic to consider. So the first thing to say is to talk about Vinicius' own contract situation at Real Madrid. So he's got 12 months left. it's not that those negotiations with Madrid are over they are ongoing I think despite his problems in Spain Vinicius is still very open to the prospect of staying in Madrid staying at the Bernabeu signing a new contract on the right terms from Madrid's perspective of course if that doesn't happen if an agreement isn't found they face the prospects of losing him either for a significantly reduced fee in January or for nothing in the summer.

25:24Andrew Allen: And you have to imagine for a player with that kind of equity value, that's unconscionable, right? Like they can't afford to do that. Even Real Madrid, I think, cannot let a player like Vinicius go for nothing. And that presumably is the opportunity that Arsenal have identified. in terms of a fee at this stage Arsenal and Madrid are not in direct communication in some ways that's no surprise I mean if you listen to Newcastle United they'll tell you Arsenal aren't in direct communication with them either over Bruno it's not the way Arsenal tend to be going about things in the window this summer so I think any sort of number put on a a price for Vinicius is probably a little premature I think Arsenal probably feel the contract situation might give them a bit of leverage there and that might afford them to do more on the salary than they might otherwise be able to.

26:25But any way you slice it, the numbers in terms of his wage would be probably, you know, they would probably shatter the wage structure of Arsenal. You have to imagine. He would immediately become the club's highest paid player.

26:44Andrew Allen: He would sort of have to really to give him anything like parity with what he currently earns at Madrid. So yes, that would bring an interesting dynamic. in terms of sort of is it related to the Morgan Rodgers pursuit and the end of that? I think the timing is similar in terms of sort of the stepping back from Rodgers, the focusing on Vinicius as more of a priority or more of a realistic target. It does seem like there is a kind of relationship there between those two. And actually, you have to say from a sort of tactical perspective, thinking about what the team needs and maybe what the left-hand side actually needs and requires.

27:30If you were just choosing between two players, probably Vinicius makes more sense than Rodgers as a left-sided player. Yeah, we had those discussions, didn't we, about Rodgers, where we were like, good player, but we don't see exactly where he fits. He's not like, this is the guy for that position. You know, the versatility element of him, which is something Mikel Arteta likes, you know, that's not there in this case.

27:55Andrew Allen: No, I mean, I think it's probably worth saying that, you know, what our reporting is that he is a really firm target for Arsenal and something that they are focused on now at this point in the window. And from an Arsenal perspective, that's absolutely the case. This is something they have the ambition to do. They believe that it's feasible for them to do. it's very real, very serious. I do think it is all contingent on the renewal and how that develops with Real Madrid. And if Arsenal's interest prompts Madrid to put the money on the table that Vinicius is looking for, I think its viability dramatically reduces.

28:39Andrew Allen: But ultimately, I think it is a fascinating enough story that Arsenal are even talking about this. Like I did not come into this window thinking I'd heard the name of Vinicius passing in conversations or, you know, in rumours or in chats with people, but only in the last couple of weeks. And that's why the timing of the story is what it is. Did I begin to appreciate that it is a serious target for Arsenal and something that they're absolutely looking to do? I think the last time I really considered them being maybe this, quite this ambitious in the market in terms of trying to land a player, maybe the conversations they had with Kylian Mbappe at the point when he was leaving Monaco.

29:27I don't know if you remember, but he was speaking to Paris Saint-Germain at that time. I think Real Madrid at that time. And it was looking like a£100 million investment, something that seemed well beyond what we perceived to be Arsenal's capabilities at that moment.

29:43Andrew Allen: But I think it was around 2018, something like that. But obviously it was just the case that the opportunity was such that Arsenal felt they had to make exceptions and allowances to be in that conversation. And it feels like with Vinicius, it's a similar situation. And obviously at this point, Arsenal are financially, commercially in a very, very different place to where they were there. What about the discussion about what signing a player like that might do to the dressing room? Because I've seen people express, well, he's a bit of a star. He maybe is a little individualistic, you know, in terms of his character and his temperament in ways that sort of feel at odds with the way things have been built at Arsenal under Mikel Arteta, right?

30:39So that's a discussion which fans are having. I've seen that people have those discussions. I sort of wonder what it would be like within the dressing room itself, though, you know? like what does it say to a group of players who have won the title and who you know came close to doing something in europe that we haven't done in the history of this football club like do they worry about that kind of thing do they worry about well here's a guy's you know he's a bit this he's a bit that um if you're looking at it with your your glass half empty but on the other hand here's a guy maybe who could win you a game here's a guy who could score you a second goal in a champions league final after you go 1-0 up you know that kind of way that is that something we as fans should be concerned about where you know the sort of collective harmonious nature of what we've done under michael arteta i won't say is a threat by bringing in somebody like this but it certainly changes it it alters it it is different it is slightly radical in terms of the the kind of player and character that we're going after.

31:44Or is this just where you are when you're as good as this team is, you know, that there are so few players that can actually genuinely raise the level that there is always going to be an element of, uh, how do I put this right? You know, I don't want to say baggage or something like that but you know there is with a big star comes big star behavior and big star expectations and and all of that kind of stuff and i'm not saying it's good bad or anything else but it is there um is that just a natural consequence of having so few players to choose from and if you are going to be this ambitious in the transfer market and i think it is hugely ambitious to try and do something like this, whether it happens or not, that you have to expect the dynamic to change a little bit.

32:40Yeah, that's kind of where I land. And maybe I'm naive in this respect, but I just feel like surely any Arsenal player, if Vinicius Junior turns up at training at London Colney, surely you're just excited by that. Like surely that's a thrill to have a player of that caliber arrive. I feel that that should lift you, you know, not worry you and concern you. I know dressing room dynamics are real things, but even on the salary front, I look at it and I look at the Arsenal squad and I think,

33:19Andrew Allen: who individually within that Arsenal squad can make a compelling, a compelling, convincing case that they should have parity with Vinicius Jr. in terms of salary. Yeah, particularly when you have to do the kind of deal you do to bring that player to a club in the first place, right? Mm-hmm. You know? Look, I love Bakayo Saka, but he is not the one-man commercial powerhouse that Vinicius is, unfortunately. And that's just an economic reality. reality. Is that a consideration for Arsenal? The first consideration, obviously, is how you improve the team. But do you think, so this leads us into that question then about how the perception of Arsenal in the transfer market could be just completely shifted with this one deal?

34:06Because we don't really do the superstar thing. And we haven't been in this territory before. You mentioned Mesut Ozil, obviously, but that was like a kind of bolt from the blue. right at the end of the transfer window. It wasn't a case that we were all talking about Mesut Ozil all summer long. There was maybe a sort of suggestion that if Bale went there, it might mean one or two players could go, you know, that kind of way. Benzema, there was more talk about Benzema. That's right, that's right. Yeah, I think you're right there. I think it would be transformative and I think that is a consideration.

34:42Listen, of course, principally, the first consideration is football.

34:46Andrew Allen: But when you're looking at, when the guys in finance are kind of scanning over the numbers of what this might cost, I'm sure the point is being made to them that that may be offset by the commercial and image impact of landing a player like this. I think it would be huge. I mean, it would be the transfer of the summer, really. It would be absolutely enormous. And the level of interest that it's generated, even from a report of Arsenal's intent or ambition, has been extraordinary. no surprise there we know what the appetite is like around Arsenal and transfers particularly when there haven't been a great deal of them thus far this summer but yeah it is a fascinating one really and I think personally I'm really encouraged that Arsenal are showing that kind of ambition to be in that conversation I don't think Arsenal are deluded I don't think they would enter into this without a belief, a conviction that they are capable of pulling it off.

36:01And even from a pure economic standpoint, that is incredibly exciting. I don't think they would do it for any player, but I think they are prepared to do it for a player of Vinicius' proven quality. Yeah, I agree. I think it's really interesting that we have designs on this, you know, Because I think there are, like, certain clubs operate in certain ways, right? And I think it just becomes embedded in who they are and the way they do business and the kind of business that they do. You know, Real Madrid can say, well, we don't, we've sort of eschewed the Galactico thing, but they haven't really.

36:48You know, they go after the best players. maybe they get them a little bit earlier or they get them in different ways than they used to but that is kind of the way they operate Barcelona kind of similar in that sense as well that the way they operate in the transfer market is very them and I think you could say something similar about Arsenal really like we operate at a certain level and I think maybe Declan Rice took us into a slightly different level because of the fee more than the pathway, if that makes sense. I don't think Arsenal buying a player from West Ham is transformative. I think it was the price that made it so notable and Arsenal's willingness to pay that price.

37:31And I think they were absolutely right to do so. And we've seen that play out on the pitch. But Arsenal going to Real Madrid and buying one of the biggest stars in the world is a completely different thing, whether it happens or not. I think it's fascinating that we have decided that that's the kind of stratosphere in which we want to operate. Yeah, absolutely.

37:54Andrew Allen: And yeah, I'm intrigued to see how this plays out. I mean, it's interesting seeing the reaction. There was sort of initially a lot of excitement about the prospects and the possibility. I've also seen some cynicism about Arsenal's chances of pulling it off, predominantly from fans of rival clubs. But yeah, I think, I mean, I can't lie to you. I think it would be very, very difficult. I think it will be challenging. And I think Real Madrid want to keep Vinicius. So they may go that extra mile required in contract negotiations to do that deal. But if they cannot get that agreement, Arsenal absolutely believe that they are in a position to capitalise upon that.

38:39Andrew Allen: And man, I hope it happens. I mean, it would be, I understand the concerns around ego and, you know, stars and what that can entail. But I think I agree with your kind of hypothesis that Arsenal are at a point in our evolution where that is almost what's required to go to the next level. And the way the game is going, I mean, Michel Arteta has spoken about this. He feels that it is going to increasingly be decided by moments of individual quality and individual brilliance. And there is no doubt that Vinicius Junior has the capacity to produce those. And finding those players is very, very, very difficult and very, very, very challenging.

39:27And if you're going to be spending£100 million on anybody, on anything, you need it to be on a player where you, there's some degree of certainty about what you're getting.

39:40Andrew Allen: And, you know, I think that will have been a factor in Arsenal's thoughts and conversations to this point. So, yeah, let's see. I mean, it's funny, we did the show about a week ago and Rodgers, I think, had just signed for Chelsea or was about to sign for Chelsea. And I was saying to you then, you know, I'm not clear on what Arsenal's plan and intent is. unfortunately over the next few days we were able to get some clarity on that but yeah it's it's uh it's a very very very very very interesting one and uh curious to see what what what follows yeah me too me too uh we do have a question or two about you know how the the story came to be but i want to maybe save that for part two which is where we where we do the questions leaving vinicius jr to to one side what do we know about what might be happening with bruno gimaraj there's a lot of still a lot of talk um a lot of varying information out there in terms of what's happening whether it's the two clubs not talking whether it's agent led deals that that seems to be simmering away in the background i know eddie howe spoke over the weekend about Bruno Gimeraj and sort of said he wasn't sure exactly what was going to be happening.

41:11Is that a situation where you expect some measure of clarity this week one way or the other? Well, Bruno's due back, I think, this week, maybe Friday, something like that, at Newcastle. I think that'll be interesting. I mean, Alexander Izak went on strike, didn't he, to force his move to Liverpool. Bruno, I gather, is a very professional guy. He's the captain

41:40Andrew Allen: of Newcastle United. It would be a hell of a play to pull something like that. But this is football and this is the transfer market. So who knows? Clearly, he's a real priority for Arsenal. Clearly, the player wants to join Arsenal. clearly Newcastle United know that losing him would be catastrophic, I would say. You think of the players they've lost this summer, Tonali, Gordon. They've brought in some talented youngsters, but no one really with that sort of level or reputation. I think Bruno going,

42:22I think their fans would be close to riots, frankly.

42:27Andrew Allen: I mean, he's very beloved there. So they will fight tooth and nail to keep him. But yeah, I think Arsenal will keep working at it. And chiefly, I think Bruno's representatives will keep working at it and trying to make the move happen for him because they probably sense this is a great opportunity coming for him at the right moment in his career. And I wouldn't say it's his last chance to secure a move of this quality, quality, but in terms of the length of contract he'd get now, as opposed to one he might get next summer when he'd be a year older. And who knows what can happen in the space of 12 months, how form or injury can affect things.

43:08Andrew Allen: You know, of course, he's going to jump at the chance to join a club of Arsenal's stature and the capacity to win things because Newcastle probably, despite everything he was told when they were taken over and the Saudi money came in, They've ultimately not been able to make that happen beyond that League Cup. Just sort of going back to Vinicius Jr. Real Madrid have apparently reached agreement in principle with Leipzig for Jan Diomande. Do you feel like that has a direct influence on what might happen with Vinicius Jr.? I sort of had a look. He tends to play more from the right than the left, which doesn't mean he couldn't play on the left more often if Real Madrid decided to use him there.

43:52Is there a connection between those two situations, do you think?

43:56Andrew Allen: I honestly don't know, I must say. I mean, I'm told, yeah, like you, I'm told Diamande prefers to play from the right-hand side. I looked it up. He played 25 times there for Leipzig last season, 10 times from the left. So, you know, there's a sort of, when we talked about, let's say Nani Matuweke playing from the left, it doesn't really tend to happen. No, I don't think it's a direct correlation. I think, I mean, obviously, you know, it's intriguing and there may be a relationship down the line, but I don't think at this point it's a case of kind of one in, one out. I think Madrid still want to keep Vinicius Junior.

44:37I mean, we've seen stories this week about Jose Mourinho's desire

44:41Andrew Allen: to keep the player, but I do think that will only mean so much. if there is a genuine jeopardy of losing him for nothing. I think that at that point, you know, the sort of things shift if that's in play. But Diamande choosing Madrid is interesting in terms of the market. And I do think Arsenal's options diminishing there. I mean, you mentioned the mooted price tag for Bradley Barclay. I've said more than once, everything I hear suggests it's going to be well over 100 million to land him. I think Liverpool are probably in pole position on that one in terms of how closely they're following him and kind of hoping to pick up the pieces there.

45:33So there's not tons out there. There isn't. So how long do Arsenal give it? Can Arsenal, for example, put any pressure on this situation? Like if Vinicius is like, well, Real Madrid, we don't know if we're going to offer you a contract or not. Listen, I don't know exactly how these things play out behind the scenes or at what point a decision is made, right? Where they go, yeah, we'll offer you a contract and he'll say, I'll think about it. Or they go, I don't think we'll offer you a contract at which point they might be more open to selling. like how how quickly can that happen and how much time can arsenal give it before there is at least some clarity on that because if there isn't any clarity when you're getting closer and closer to the start of the season or you're getting closer and closer to the end of the window and another player you liked has gone somewhere else or another player you liked has gone somewhere else you know is there a need to uh be stingy with time if that's the right way of putting it or or or putting a very definite time limit on knowing one way or the other, whether this deal can happen or not?

46:43Yeah, that's a really good question. And I think, full disclosure,

46:50Andrew Allen: I know a lot more about this from the Arsenal side than the Real Madrid side. Obviously, we've looked at the Madrid side, and we're blessed that we have colleagues covering Madrid closely who are able to give us good context on this. But I understand that there are supposed to be further talks between Madrid and Minisius soon about the renewal. And I think the outcome of those will probably set the agenda and set the timeline. The only thing I would say is that sometimes a deal of this size and scale can run quite late. And Ozil was a different situation, but those dominoes fell very, very, very, very late in the window.

47:41We've spoken before about Andrea Berta's tendency to spin plates.

47:47Andrew Allen: I would suggest this is one where he is obliged to be spinning at least a couple of plates. because as much as I admire the scale of the ambition on Vinicius, it's not a sure thing. You can't look at a deal like that and say, it's not a solace situation where you know the price, you know how feasible it is. You just have to press the button. This is one that will take time and work and there will be jeopardy and things could not pan out. you have to have in mind don't you think no I agree I agree and do we need that signing that that's a good question like are we at the point where we can afford to say we go for Vinicius and if it doesn't happen we make do with what we've got I don't think I'm not sure I'm not sure people will accept that idea make do with what we've got so it's either, you know, Vinicius or nothing.

48:56Yeah.

48:56Andrew Allen: In terms of like, if we, you know, we're saying there aren't, there aren't tons of options out there in terms of attacking players who, who improve us. Do you think we can afford to have all our eggs in that basket is my question. I think you're right in that in a summer where we're linked with Barcola, vinicius jr morgan rogers whatever you think of where he might have ended up playing um and other names if in your pursuit of you know the big star you come away with nothing that is not going to be that's not going to go down well because we can applaud the ambition but you've got to be able to back it up right um i think yeah i don't know what they do i don't know exactly how they do it, whether they've made this too complicated for themselves or whether there is a fail-safe option.

49:56I sort of struggle to see though, like if you're a really, really good player and that's the kind of level that we need at Arsenal, you're not going to hang around and wait to see whether or not, well, will they sign Vinicius? And if they don't, well then, grand, I'll go to Arsenal. You know, I think those good players are in demand and you need to, you need to demonstrate to those players that you want them that is certainly part of how you make it easier to bring a player in right um so yeah and that was yeah that was something that

50:27Andrew Allen: was cited rightly or wrongly in the kind of rogers fallout wasn't it that was a point that was occurred in a number of pieces the idea of sort of feeling like a priority yeah Yeah, it's a difficult one. I think when you do go for something like this, something as big as this, something with the scale of this, it becomes much more difficult to have a backup plan because you can't get anything close to this in terms of profile. And then even if you don't get Vinicius and you do bring in a player and it's a good player, whoever it might be, it'll probably feel underwhelming to people. So probably there's, you know, yeah.

51:14Andrew Allen: Leandro Trossard felt underwhelming. Sure. And was a better signing than Mikhaila Mudrik. I agree. I agree with that, but you know, it just is the, you raise expectations, you know? Of course. Of course. I will say, and that's always, and I doubt, you know, the questions that you mentioned will touch on this, but I always find it interesting when people say, why would the club put this out? it's only going to lead to disappointment. And all I can say, yeah, well, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. We'll get to that because that is one of the questions. And I think it is an interesting discussion as well.

51:49So we'll touch on that with your questions and more in part two, right after this.

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53:21Welcome back to the Arsecast Extra. This is part two of the show where we answer the questions that you send to us on bluesky at gunnablog.bsky.social and at arseblog.com. Also on the arseblog discord chat server which you get access to if you are an arseblog member on patreon so look we have loads of questions about the story right um the in inverted commas orn bomb although this was your story too so you know i want to make sure i want to make sure you get yours

53:50Andrew Allen: thanks very much listen when you do a story with david you know uh yeah you know his tweets the one that's going to bang that's for sure it's a bit like carl jenkinson's dad singing backing vocals for bonnie tyler she's the star that's just the way it goes exactly i'm very happy to play a supporting role that's fine fair there's a lot that comes with being david ornstein and uh i don't i'm not sure i could handle all of that all right well one of the questions we had was on the discord from zemzu i think is how you pronounce it he says one for james what is the decision slash thought process around sharing such early news like the Vinicius Junior stuff is it as simple as it's so big as you want to report it as soon as you can or is there any thought about waiting for the story to develop and I think what you said right at the end of part one is is the idea or the suggestion that Arsenal are sort of putting that out there to because it's been a bit tetchy it's been a bit antsy since the end of the World Cup and people are worried about who we're going to buy and who we're not going to buy and how long it's taking to do stuff.

55:00So the suggestion is Arsenal just put this out there to make everyone feel better. So yeah, let's go at it from that point of view, you know, as, you know, a reporter, somebody who's got this information, how do you then process the idea of presenting this story in public? And then the other side of it, that Arsenal, you know, would sort of go, here, James, just, you know, here's a bit of information, put that out there so everyone gets off our backs. Yeah.

55:30Andrew Allen: I mean, I would never, obviously I'm not a liberty to reveal sourcing on stories, but I do always, I slightly bristle at the idea that clubs are actively putting transfer stories out there simply because it sort of diminishes quite how difficult what we're doing actually is. Like, I wish that was true. It would make my life and David's life and everyone's life so much easier. But I think there's rather more, I always kind of use the phrase espionage that goes into transfer reporting than that. I can understand the suspicion because obviously the Rogers deal didn't materialize. And then a few days later, here's the story about Vinicius.

56:18Andrew Allen: And I can see how people might make that leap. What I would say is, first of all, it would be a very risky story for Arsenal to want out there. because as alluded to the back end of part one, you know, there's a decent chance of it kind of backfiring in a sense in that this is always going to be a very difficult deal to land. And at this point, there's absolutely no guarantee of that. Second of all, what I would say is like very naturally when the Rogers deal didn't come to pass, I think any Arsenal reporter worth their salt is thinking and looking and asking and inquiring what's next? What's the focus now?

57:00Andrew Allen: And it's that diligence and that work that has led to us being able to publish this story about Arsenal's interest in Vinicius. There was a question about And what leads you to report on a story early? And I think that's, you know, in this case, for example, before there's direct club to club contact. And I would say, actually, that's pretty normal in reporting now. Like, I think we'll often say, talk about who are targets for a club before it's proceeded to that kind of negotiation level. I think that's fairly standard in reporting now. I also think it is a consideration, you know, what is the degree of public interest in this?

57:50Andrew Allen: Does this constitute a worthwhile story? And all I can say is that from the reaction to it, I think it absolutely does. um now i think when you're working with a reporter of david's uh credibility and and caliber um i won't speak for myself but speaking for him you absolutely know that everything has been appropriately sourced and verified um and we've we felt really really confident in what we were reporting um so yeah it's it's it's it's interesting it's always a it's always a debate about at what point we feel it's right to print something and normally we have to meet a certain threshold in terms of our sourcing and checks and making sure people have right of reply and all those things but we followed all our processes here and uh this is where we got to a sort of interesting sidebar to it is that uh i was performing in a theater show on saturday at the royal albert hall um so i was being made up as albert einstein while having dialogue with David and the office about this story.

59:21Andrew Allen: I think it went live at 1 58 PM and I got my tweet out and retweeted David and I went on stage at 2 PM. So very surreal, literally sitting in the makeup chair, handling a huge Arsenal transfer story and then walking out on stage to do a musical show for families i don't know if that you know sums up the transfer window in a way or if that's just a particularly unique story to you but it does feel like every year i said this to you before we came on that the the way transfers play with the minds of football fans particularly on social media you think well it can't get any crazier than last year and there's always a way for it to get slightly crazier so i think you as albert einstein tweeting out a story about also being interested in venice jr is is a hell of an image isn't it they might need einstein up in the finance department at arsenal to be honest to make some of these numbers add up but yeah so i mean listen it's um yeah we treated it like any other story is the short answer and it just has been i mean i knew people would be interested in it but i've still been taken aback by the scale of the response and as for kind of the broader landscape of transfer reporting i don't know if it's just my algorithm because i'm in the industry but um every time i open every time i sort of uh reluctantly open x it's kind of open discourse about which transfer reporter is the goat and which is a fraud and the kind of cult of individual.

1:01:09Andrew Allen: And I say there's a lot that comes with being David Ornstein. I mean, like this sort of strange kind of standing of transfer reporters and the sort of culture war that provokes. It's a very, very, very weird, weird, weird world at this point in time. It is. There's these parasocial relationships. Like I saw Fabrizio Romano in a scrap with Pletty, whatever his name is, over the weekend. And people are taking sides on that. And then, you know, in three years' time, we're going to be sitting here and there'll be a reality TV show. It'll be like Gladiators or some shit. And it'll be like Hand of Arsenal against Leg of Liverpool versus Wrist of United against Cock of Chelsea or something, you know.

1:01:51So it is a bit mad, but it is entirely linked to how invested people are in the transfer market, what their club might do in the transfer market. Yeah, absolutely. And I think like, yeah, it's, I mean, it's kind of the trend that we saw as football became more about following individuals, you know, the kind of Ronaldo versus Messi era.

1:02:21Andrew Allen: we're seeing that across culture in lots of different ways this kind of cult of personality and individuals having their own followings but that being applied to journalists is really strange and i'm sure uh i'm sure david considers it strange i'm sure fabricio considers it strange and florian plassenberg and others um because they are probably you know certainly in david's case as someone i work with really really closely like he he is just trying to report with uh integrity and follow all the appropriate processes that we have to. By the way, I mean, I mentioned this purely in passing, but Sammy Mottbell of the BBC and Alex Howell have just put out an article in the last 10 minutes about Vinicius in which it says, BBC Sport understands Arteta has become so smitten with the notion of signing Vinicius that he is viewed internally as the club's number one target.

1:03:15Well, that makes sense.

1:03:16Andrew Allen: Yes. I mean, and listen, it's interesting as a reporter, like you're always very confident in what you're doing, but when you've got an organization like the BBC using language that strong, it's affirming, right? You feel like you feel reassured that others are following suit. But I think it's interesting. I think we will hear different noises out of London and Madrid on this one. I think Madrid, as I've said throughout, they want to keep this player and they have contract talks coming up and they want to get that deal done. So I don't think they're particularly entertaining Arsenal's interest or encouraging Arsenal's interest.

1:04:02But from London, from the Arsenal side, the intent is absolutely there.

1:04:09Andrew Allen: And I think, yeah, you're going to be seeing that reflected amongst different publications moving forward. Okay, that sort of strikes me that there's another question, right, which is that if Real Madrid want Vinicius to stay, to what extent do Arsenal have to make it clear to Vinicius that they want him and that they can, A, make a move from Real Madrid, which is essentially the biggest club in the world, right, the most famous club in the world. Nobody's won the Champions League more than them. You see the shirts everywhere. How do Arsenal go about convincing this guy that, you know, move to North London?

1:04:52You can be a star here in North London. I mean, show them just pictures of the parade, right? And a million, two million people on the streets of North London. You're joining a big club and a club that's supported massively around the world, but it isn't a Real Madrid, right? Do Arsenal work away in the background to sort of convince him not quite to turn his head? But if there is an offer from Real Madrid and he is inclined to stay there, then it's probably game over, right? So is it incumbent on Arsenal to, via the back channels, however they may take place, incentivize or make it clear to this player, we want you you can fulfill your sporting ambitions your monetary salary expectations will be met you know by virtue of you being a player of this stature that we're going to bring in like has that work got to be going on now in the background while whatever decision Real Madrid come to about a contract renewal is ongoing it has to has to because it has to weigh in Vinicius and his representatives' minds during those negotiations.

1:06:05Andrew Allen: They need to know what alternatives are out there. And actually, you know, why Arsenal for Vinicius? I mean, I must say there aren't many people I trust to make that case more than Mikel Arteta. If Arsenal can get Vinicius in a room or on the phone with Mikel Arteta, I think we know historically how compelling and convincing he can be in those situations. He's a very, very, very persuasive man with very clear ideas. And I think players are often quite taken with that. And this is a leap from me, but obviously the Premier League is attractive. Obviously London is attractive. I do look at Vinicius' history in Spain, the problems he's encountered, particularly facing racism and regular persistent abuse.

1:07:05I look at a club like Arsenal and the degree of diversity that it represents and embodies. And I do wonder if that might hold an appeal for him as well. Yeah, I did wonder about the way Jose Mourinho reacted to that incident last year when he was manager of Benfica and there was abuse directed at Vinicius Junior from, what's his name, Prestiani. The covering his mouth thing, which obviously had an impact then on what happened in the World Cup. You know, the new regulation that came in about covering your mouth when speaking or confronting another player. I thought Jose Mourinho's reaction to that was grotty.

1:07:49It was really, really poor. You know, it was sort of blaming Vinicius because he brings this kind of stuff on himself. He sort of blamed the way he celebrated, I think, at one point. So I did wonder if that might be an element of this that, you know, may not be reported publicly. but I do wonder if you're Vinicius Jr. and you've been on the receiving end of that from the guy who now is going to pick your team. Is he going to be fully in your corner next time something happens in Spain or wherever it happens? I wonder. Yeah, interesting one. Yeah, so I forget what the original question was now, Andrew.

1:08:30It was all about just, you know, getting the story out there. And I think, you know, the other point which you sort of left unsaid but said in not so many words is that like Arsenal and pretty much every football club, if at all possible, would prefer as little reporting as possible on potential deals because once it gets public, it does get a bit more complicated because of the way it impacts the fans. Like if Newcastle or Liverpool or whoever linked with Mbappe tomorrow, you know, their fans would go absolutely batshit insane at the idea of that. Whereas, you know, if they could get it done in the background, There's a complete bullshit hypothetical, of course.

1:09:07You know, they would prefer to just do everything quietly in the background and then just announce. Exactly. And also it can put a selling club's backup as well.

1:09:14Andrew Allen: The idea that, oh, sometimes a selling club will say, oh, they're going about this via the media, you know, and it can really make those negotiations more difficult. So I think by and large, clubs don't want their interest in a player to be public knowledge. There are situations where it being public can help. It can provide some kind of leverage or, you know, it can help a player who's agitating to move sometimes, can create maybe a sense of inevitability around a transfer. But I don't think Vinicius is necessarily one of those where we're at that place yet. So, yeah, I don't think it would be right to characterize it as a kind of strategic move on the part of the club to release the information.

1:10:04The simple reality is, I'm afraid, most of the time, that is simply, almost all the time,

1:10:11Andrew Allen: that is simply not how it works. Okay. I did a lot on that. Well, you know, it's a big... It's a lot. It is a lot. It's an interesting one. Yeah.

1:10:25um here is a sort of vinicius question that ties to a saliba question um okay non-flying dutchman on the discord here's a vinnie jr related question that i think is quite interesting would you give any thought to negotiating for vinnie with saliba going back in the other direction. And then it says, if Saliba heals properly and is 100 % in four months, then I don't think it's something we can consider. But we also know that back injuries can sometimes derail careers. Rashford and Van Persie both lost a lot of their explosives due to injuries. De Ligt will have missed 10 to 12 months due to the back injury he has right now.

1:11:08Personally, I don't think I would do it, but it's an interesting conversation given we don't know what Saliba will be like after his injury. No, no, no, no, no, no. I don't think so. I just don't think that could even be a consideration for Arsenal. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how you, A, include a player in a deal when they're sidelined for an extended period, right? Well, exactly. Madrid would have the same reservations, you know. Clearly. And then I think we're trying to improve our squad by bringing in somebody like Vinicius Jr. And I think, you know, if in January we have William Saliba at the back and Vinicius Jr.

1:11:49in the front three, we're a much better team. No, I wouldn't even give that the slightest consideration. And I don't know who suggested it, but I think they should probably go punch a horse. Okay, non-flying Dutchman, you have your instructions.

1:12:10There you go. I mean, that seems just sort of like crazy to me. Don't really see any connection between the two situations, to be honest. I understand being a bit worried about Saliba, but I don't really think you can sort of, yeah, no, no, no, no.

1:12:33Andrew Allen: I also agree it's not viable and not something Arsenal should do. So, you know, I think Saliba is integral. And because we fear the injury might cause him issues, it seems like a crazy reason to sacrifice him in a deal for anybody. Sure. But it is an interesting or helpful, rather, pivot into a conversation about Saliba. We had this statement about him in the middle of last week. I just wondered what you, you know, we're talking about, but it's just, we're talking about the attack. I wonder to what degree is defense a focus and a priority for you in the light of that news? I think we probably do need to do a deal.

1:13:22I know your preference was more John Stone's than Esri Kansa. Yeah.

1:13:31Andrew Allen: Yeah, I mean, we've chatted about it on WhatsApp and I was like, I think Stones makes a lot of sense. You did then show me his injury record for the last two years. Yeah, it's not been great. I had to concede that it was not particularly good. Well, in fact, it was very bad. It was very bad. And that's the thing about Konza, where I think he's clearly a more available player in terms of injuries. He's younger. He can play right back. He can play centre half. I just think the sort of outlay for him would be very big for a player who would essentially then become a backup defender, right? When Saliba is back.

1:14:15You know, I know you need to rotate. I know you need to move your squad around. But we do have Mosquera. We do have Ben White. We do have Jurian Timber. they're all frolicking in the pool at this moment in time. Have you seen the Arsenal Instagram, by the way? Oh, no, I've not. Have a look. They know what they're doing. Go to the Arsenal Instagram right now. Look at that first picture and tell me they don't know what they're doing. These are some of the thirstiest pictures Arsenal have ever posted on social media. But the boys are in the swimming pool playing head tennis and stuff like that. I think I said this.

1:14:49Wow. Yeah. Riccardo Califiori lead image. Yeah. I think I said this to you last week, or maybe I said it on the RS cast on Thursday. I can't remember. But, you know, I do think that maybe you could lean into white timber mascara as your central defensive options and think about another right back as a way of offsetting your defensive issues. We actually had a question about Marley Salmon from Monk771 saying, with Timber and White coming back from injuries, is there a chance we see Marley Salmon getting some minutes at right back or right centre back in the first few weeks of the Premier League?

1:15:26Which I think is probably unlikely. I still think he's very, very, very young to be playing those kinds of minutes,

1:15:33Andrew Allen: especially when you look at the difficulty of some of our early Premier League games. I think Jurien Timber at centre-half is very, very plausible. Very, very plausible. I think Arteta likes him there and he has used him there before. He's obviously played a ton of football there for Ajax as well. Right. So I can see that maybe. And that's making a signing at right back maybe. and an eventual successor, I guess, to Ben White. That could be a way we go about it. I think Konza... I mean, the data quite likes Konza and he's clearly a very competent Premier League defender. It's interesting to think back to January and David Ornstein did a story then on Arsenal's interest in Mark Gehi, which again felt on the surface of it you were like well you know why?

1:16:37Because we've got Saliba we've got Gabriel but I think Arsenal have all have been looking for that kind of third centre half who can play with either

1:16:49Andrew Allen: and can rotate with either and gives us

1:16:55Andrew Allen: optionality but also succession planning maybe as well, if one were to leave. Or, you know, I think there are injury concerns, I think, with both players, to be honest. I think Saliba's had his issues with his back. Gabriel's had some issues of his own. So they have been looking for that third premium centre half. Could it be Konza? Maybe. Can Arsenal have a window where they do Konza at that sort of level and something like Vinicius? and something like Bruno? I don't know is the honest answer, but there'll be a huge outlay. Stones, I think lots of people will look at Stones and there's reports about Chelsea and Liverpool and others potentially looking at him too.

1:17:48Andrew Allen: He's just a really, really good footballer who's really, really experienced. and I think he could give Arsenal cover. The question is, yeah, what good is cover if you're in the treatment room? It would have to be a pretty strenuous medical. That's what I would say. Yeah, that's true. That is true. Yeah, they've got a decision to make there, but nothing that involves William Saliba going anywhere near Real Madrid. Fair. We had this question, Andrew, a bit of a kind of behind the scenes question. Guna Gwies, I think it is. Gwigs, Guna Gwigs. Sorry, mate. I can't read. And it says, morning, one for you, Andrew.

1:18:34You mentioned on the Statements podcast that you'd already recorded the Solace new player podcast and were waiting to release it when it became official. Have you ever recorded a new player podcast, then had to scrap it as we lost out on the player? Oh, I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think we've ever really recorded until such time as we've been sure that the deal was going to go through. But I can tell you this, that on Arsebog News, Andrew Allen has a tremendous record of preparing stories about players we're going to sign that we never end up signing. So if you really don't want a player, we just get Andrew to compose a draft.

1:19:25I think Higuain was the classic of the genre. It might still be there in the drafts if I go and have a look right now. There's a few that have happened down the years. I can't remember the names, but there's definitely been quite a few that we've prepared. and then it just hasn't gone through.

1:19:47Andrew Allen: This is way, way back, but the ultimate one was, of course, Hassam Trabelsi, who I believe was actually put in the Arsenal squad on the Pro Evo game for that season. That's right. That's right. Yes, we have one here from 2013, the 2nd of July, 2013, composed by Andrew Allen, signing Arsenal confirm Higuain deal. and if I find out that Andrew Allen has drafted a Vinicius Junior to Arsenal story they'll be held to pay do you want me to have a look? I'll have a quick look and see. Oh god, I don't want to know No, I'll keep people in the dark I'll keep people in the dark but there have been a few players like that over the years where we've been quite strongly linked with them over the summer and Juan Matters and the like Yeah, there was something maybe yeah about that that was maybe before the the Higuain one I think um yeah I can't find any more but um yeah there have been a few but no new player podcasts I have to say um let me have a look at another here's one that's in the same uh bracket Peter Hust says have art because I don't know if this is uh connected to uh Vinnie Jr or not but he says have Arsenal ever signed a player you genuinely didn't like?

1:21:13And how did it go?

1:21:16Andrew Allen: Well, I mean, Bruno would be one that I would have my reservations about, I have to say. Well, any Bruno, Bruno Fernandes, Bruno Guimaraes, but in terms of this summer, Guimaraes is one I'm still, how can I phrase it? Still coming round to. of course I will welcome him with open arms should he arrive a player we I actively didn't like

1:21:49I mean I mean you you were not a big Jorginho fan when he arrived no that's true that's true but to be fair I I grew to to like Jorginho I think the obvious one for me is William Gallas. Oh. That's pretty obvious one. That didn't go well. David Luiz, another one as well. I know he won certain people over when he arrived and I get it to an extent, but I was never really able to get on board with him. Petr Cech, another one. There's a theme there, isn't there? There's a bit of a theme in terms of where these players have come from. Potentially. Yeah. Yeah, I think we've got to stop doing that. Well, the other one as well, by the way, the Mikel Silvestre.

1:22:44Andrew Allen: Yes, again, and that worked out brilliantly. Yeah, you know, it's one of those where you're like, oh, God, this guy? Really? Is that what we're going to do? You know, particularly when you get a washed up player from another Premier League club who you've been rivals with. I've got a question that I don't remember the answer to, and I wonder if you might. Okay. But you know when Arsenal signed Sol Campbell, did we hate Sol Campbell before he signed for us? I mean, I guess by virtue of him being a Spurs player. But it was a different time, wasn't it? There wasn't the same focus on players because we just didn't have the tools for it.

1:23:31You know, you could be on whatever internet forum you used to be on back then or whatever it was, but it wasn't quite the same as social media. And players existed in a slightly different world to us because they weren't on social media. You know, they're sort of, they exist in our orbit now in a way that they didn't back then. So I'm guessing, yes, simply by virtue of being a Tottenham player, as long as they're a Tottenham player, you know, you can't be on board with them. But then, yeah, the fact that he did what he did and, you know, led them down the garden path and then signed for Arsenal, I think won him a lot of friends very, very quickly.

1:24:12Like, I don't remember when at all when that deal went through. I don't remember anyone going, oh, no, we're not signing that guy from Spurs. It was like, holy fuck, look at what we've just done, you know?

1:24:27Andrew Allen: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just interesting, isn't it? Cause like he obviously was immediately a hero for signing for Arsenal, but I just wondered what the history was with him personally. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it is. I think that the pattern shows it tends to not work out great, but then let's see. Let's see. What else have I got here? Do I have anything else?

1:24:54Spinning. No, we don't. have we have we done this question before bunge 1976 on blue sky says i've recently found out from my teenager that goona now means something very different to kids today as a 50 year old i have no problem with this as it's more opportunity to be an embarrassing dad but could we see a generational shift from our traditional fan nickname maybe i don't know um yeah i feel like you're not seeing it on official merch anymore. That's for sure. Maybe not. Maybe not. But maybe it is a generational thing. It also feels kind of more like an American thing than a European thing. Very much so.

1:25:39And yeah, if you don't feel like looking it up, you're not missing out if you don't. That's all I will say to you. It's not a word that conjures up a lot of great imagery is what I would say. No, but that is an interesting kind of firm issue for the club, I suppose, especially with America being a big market. Yeah. Big, big Arsenal fan base in America, of course. What about this one from Kiran Sajjan on Blue Sky? It was at kts29.bsky.social. They say, I've always thought Arsenal under Arteta had a bad PR image, PR image, with most of the mainstream media failing to give him due credit with the popular man Pep Guardiola gone and a league title in the bag now.

1:26:26Do you think this will change and Arteta will get more liking from the neutrals? Hmm. Well, Gary Neville's got his Arsenal shirt now, hasn't he? I think... Yes, and I think Mikel will change a bit as well. I think Mikel will have a different demeanour. Some cracking jokes with Christos Solis at the signing video. Quite insane jokes. Did you see them?

1:26:53Andrew Allen: When Solis is in London Colney, Mikhail Teta comes around the corner with Win the Dog and points at Solis and goes, attack, attack. Yeah. And she's like, what? You haven't told me to do that? And then when he's signing his contract, he kind of says to, he's about to sign it. And Mikhail goes, are you sure? Once you sign it, there's no going back. And I'm like, what's he got planned for this guy? Yeah, I liked the bit where he went, they were laughing and joking about, I think Solace's family said, we've got a French bulldog. Oh, yeah. And Arteta says, oh, yeah, I've got a French bulldog as well.

1:27:37I think he's got like a protection dog. I remember seeing a story about that. I think he's got a Dutch shepherd, but he also has a French bulldog. And Solace's mother said something about, oh, he's so cute. And Arteta, he's so beautiful. And Arteta said, oh, my dog's cute, but he's not beautiful. Or whatever it was. Yeah, something like that. And then he just turned and went, shall we do the pictures now? And it was just like, oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all business. He is a bit. I mean, I think that's interesting that you think that. Yeah. I think it may well change Arteta's demeanor. I think the fact that we won the league will just annoy them even more.

1:28:18to be honest. I don't think they're going to be like, no, you know what? They got there in the end. Fair play. All the criticism, all the things that we've not liked about Arsenal, you know, credit where it's due. You've won the title. We're going to be a bit nicer about you. I think they'll just double down on being absolute cunts.

1:28:35Andrew Allen: I mean, one thing I do think is if we fall short, you know, or if we underwhelm next season, the football world will be in a real hurry to say, oh, here they are again. you know yeah um i don't know i i when we did win the title and maybe this is just what happens when you win the league but i did sense a bit of a softening and people did hand us some flowers reluctantly or otherwise yeah um but yeah whether that continues next year i don't know i think the The Guardiola going element is interesting because I do think as a nation and as a league, we are kind of very manager focused, very manager obsessed.

1:29:20Andrew Allen: We like to have these kind of big iconic figures at the top of the game, sort of spouting wisdom from their press conference chair. And there is a gap to be filled there now. So will it be Arteta? Will it be Iriola? Will it be Xabi Alonso? I don't think it's going to be Michael Carrick. So, yeah, we'll see. We'll see. I mean, maybe Arteta becomes a bit more of a media favourite than he has been until now. Yeah, I quite liked Jurgen Klopp, by the way. Oh, that's a great press conference. Like, hello, I am the new manager of Germany, but if you go after me or my family, I'll just quit. I like that.

1:30:09I like that. Like, I think you can absolutely criticize a manager for his decisions or the work that he does. But I think, you know, if you start going after a family or anything like that, that that really is a line that shouldn't be crossed. I just like the way he put that straight out front and center when taking that job. Um, final one from Christopher on the discord. Mikhail has still not signed a new contract. Is his willingness to sign a new deal tied to the business we do this summer? And would it be cynical for me, of me rather, just as an addendum to that, to think that any contract might remain unsigned until such time as we kind of get what we need to get done in the transfer market because that provides Mikel with a little bit of leverage.

1:31:05Yeah, I think he, I mean, Mikel's a smart guy and I think he knows the kind of power he wields, the influence he wields at Arsenal. And if the contract can be part of that, I think he absolutely, he's probably within his rights to make it so.

1:31:23Andrew Allen: I don't think he's holding the club to ransom or anything like it. No, no, no. It's never a bad thing for the club to want to make you happy as a manager. So, yeah, I'm sure that's a factor. I'm sure the club are desperate to prove to Mikel they have the willingness and the capacity to match his ambitions. And, you know, in terms of intent, fair play, it seems to be there. So now the onus is on Andrea Berta to try and get some of this stuff over the line. To deliver. I mean, does that put real pressure on him now in the position that he's in as sporting director? That if this doesn't happen, if the Vinicius thing doesn't happen, does that reflect more on him than the club?

1:32:12Or is it dependent on how it plays out?

1:32:16Andrew Allen: I mean, I'm sure there will be some sort of public repercussions because when people are really invested in something and really care about something and want it to happen, if it doesn't happen, there are always ramifications there. My personal view is I don't think I could hold anyone at Arsenal responsible if they fail to land Vinicius Junior in the biggest transfer in the club's history and potentially the whole summer. Like that is something that might happen. And I would not lay the finger of blame at anybody for that. I think where you may lay a finger of blame or where there would be a case to answer is if that happens and Arsenal.

1:32:55Andrew Allen: Don't do anything else. Yeah. Yeah. I left floundering or without an alternative or without a backup plan. I think that in that case, I think it would be fair to start pointing fingers. Pitchforks at the ready, folks. Okay. Yeah. Get them ready. Get them ready. no pressure on Arsenal now that they've you know leaked this story via David Ornstein and James no it will be it will be fascinating to see how it plays out you know I see a lot of excitement I see a lot of cynicism I see a lot of people saying well this is never going to happen but you know clearly this is a road they're going to go down and hopefully it's one they can get to the end of right we had better leave it there as ever folks thank you so much as always for being with us thank you for downloading and subscribing and all the rest.

1:33:42We'll have something for you a bit later in the week. For now, though, take it easy and we will catch you on the next one.

1:33:47Andrew Allen: Bye-bye.

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