Arsecast Extra Episode 706 - 03.08.2026

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1:14Hello and welcome to another, well, fuck, I can't remember how I do the intro. That'll tell you what my weekend was like. Another Arsecast Extra, as always, with James from Gunnar Blog. James, good morning to you. Morning, Andrew. How was your weekend? It was grand. It was kind of quiet and also a little bit surreal in that I went to a 70th birthday party last night, which is unusual. I've never been to one of those before, I don't think. Maybe like when my dad or whatever turned 70. But our next door neighbor, the Dave, he turned 70. so we went to uh went along to his little shindig in a local bar where you know he sang songs did a bit of performing and lots of people stood up and sang and stuff so i had a few pints and um yeah apart from that it was it was all nice and quiet what about you uh i was just hanging around with rocky really and camille went to rome which i think was an insane choice in this kind of heat but there you go okay um and she basically fried in rome for the weekend and looking at old stuff and uh yeah we just hung out so cool very busy very busy I would say so I would say so I got your hands full there did you uh did you get a chance to to watch the Arsenal game against your owner the first real pre-season friendly here do you want to hear my impression of the Arsenal website yes please okay here we go that's it just nothing I mean there's only one way for Arsenal to atone for their sins and we all know what that is they need to deliver Vinicius Junior otherwise people are going to be really upset about this whole streaming thing I did I only saw bits of the second half live and by that point I think Arsenal had given up and started broadcasting it on their YouTube channel that's right that's right the second half went out live on youtube the first half i sort of had it i opened it up because i was in the kitchen and i was cooking and i opened up the the live stream and it worked for the first sort of 10 15 minutes and then i said you know what i'll do i'll go upstairs and sit at my computer after i'd finished sort of cooking and eating i had the laptop there watching a bit of it early on i said i'll just go upstairs and then when i went upstairs didn't work.

3:38So I had to resort to piracy. That is what Arsenal made many Arsenal fans do this weekend. I hope they're proud of themselves. Yeah, the lengths they've driven you to. They made us all pirates. Actually, I mean, to be fair, there is an issue. People did pay for this and didn't get what they paid for. So I don't quite know what they're going to do about that or if they're going to do anything about that. But certainly people paid for either that game on its own in isolation or as part of the pay-per-view pre-season package, but they spectacularly failed to deliver what people paid for. So there's something to figure out there, I guess.

4:16Yeah. Look, I don't love it, charging for a pre-season friend. It feels a bit unnecessary, to be honest with you. But if you're going to do it, you've got to deliver the product. Yes. Yeah. So there you go. So, yes, many fans missed out on what I gather was quite an entertaining game. And I have since caught up with the highlights, obviously, and Arsenal running out comfortable winners. Yes, it was an interesting team selection. You know, players who hadn't been away, like Riccardo Calafuri, like Myles Lewis-Skelly. By the way, did you see the Day in the Life of Calafuri video? Yes, yes. I think Arsenal have realised that the algorithm favours Califuri.

5:00Yes. To be fair, they're getting that bit of online stuff right, to be honest. I really enjoyed the go sit in front of a tree thing. When I think they were playing head tennis in the swimming pool. And if you got it wrong, you had to go and sit in front of a tree without your phone. I think Ben White told Victor Jokeres, it's time to reflect. And he had to go sit on his own in front of a tree. There's a picture of him. I think there's one of Kai Havertz as well, which is really quite funny. But there you go. A nightmare for anyone with sort of intrusive thoughts. Oh, yeah. God, I'd hate to do that.

5:41Being left alone with my own thoughts is about my worst nightmare. Exactly. Fate worse than death. But Califiori started. Louis Skelly started. Ethan Ranaire started. Christian Muscara, you know. But I thought the presence of Havertz, Jokerez and Incapier, who were away at the World Cup, they only played half an hour. So clearly there's a plan to ease some of these guys back into action pretty gradually. I think so, yeah. I mean, that made me double take when I saw kind of people being substituted after 34 minutes or whatever it was. And thinking, oh, I hope something hasn't gone wrong. But it seems to have been pre-planned.

6:19There were a raft of changes at that time. You've got players who have arrived at different moments. You know, you've got Kai Havertz who's a week behind. A lot of those World Cup participants are a week behind. So I guess it makes sense. And, you know, particularly in the first half, there were some really nice moments and some nice goals too. Yes, the Kai Havertz opener came from really nice work from Max Dowman in midfield. The way he used his body to shield the ball, turn away, and then play a perfect pass into the path of Havertz. Very impressive. It was an impressive and interesting evening for Max Dowman, who I think is going to be important, isn't he, in the opening part of this season with Nani Maduweke and Bakayo Saka away and not due back until, is it this week or next week?

7:13I'm not 100 % sure when exactly they come back, but they'll be behind in their preparation. And I think the general wisdom is that they're probably not going to be available for at least the opening game of the season. So Max Dowman's taking a claim on the right. It's an opportunity for him, even if the door is slightly more open than it might have ordinarily have been. Yeah, he's such an exciting talent and we're accustomed to this now. We saw the same in pre-season 12 months ago where he was ripping it up and, you know, it didn't necessarily translate to a kind of immediate impact at Premier League level.

7:54But he's a year older now, a year more developed. And I think with the World Cup absentees, he is going to be really important in that early period. This was an excellent performance. I loved his assist here for Kai Havertz. the close control, the balance, the strength as well to kind of bounce off a couple of challenges and retain possession and then play that perfect pass through. And Havertz running through from deep actually finished it really, really well too. So a beautiful goal. Dowen himself obviously gets one in the second half. And this was another great cameo from him. I mean, another great demonstration of his potential.

8:35Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm really curious to see how much he's involved this season. There's transfer business afoot, obviously, but there is that question about who's going to start the season on the right and then how much he can develop over the course of the campaign. And yeah, it was an impressive game from him. We saw a goal for Christos Solis as well. We've sort of made the comparison with Trossard in that he does like to come in and get shots away from the edge of the box. I thought there was something trossardy about this goal in the sense that, you know, he made the space, got a little deflection on the way through, take nothing away from the ability to make the space.

9:19But I thought the fact that he got the shot off really quickly reminded me quite a bit of trossardy. Maybe there's sort of confirmation bias in that, that we've talked about this so much that every time you see him do something, you go, oh, that's a bit trossardy. And we'll have to get past that, you know, and he'll become more solace-y in his own way as time passes. But it's not necessarily a bad thing to be a bit Trossardy. No, I think we mean it as a compliment, don't we? And it does feel at this early stage like we've done the old football manager find similar players trick to identify this guy.

9:52There's something about the way he moves, the low centre of gravity, the way he drives towards goal. I think Miklaset has said after the game, He has only the goal between his eyes or something to that effect. Yeah, I think he looks like a really interesting acquisition. And I think that directness makes him particularly compelling, the way that he does go at goal. He's always looking to get shots off. He can shoot off either foot, which again is very trossard. And yeah, a nice moment for him to score and will help his acclimatisation because, you know, whatever else we do in the attack, in the window, I think there's a very decent chance that he starts the season as the man in possession of the shirt, especially because he is one of those players who didn't go away to the World Cup.

10:42Yeah, Arteta said afterwards, I think you're going to love the player. He's a very direct player. He's got the ball between the eyes, which is, yeah, I guess a quote which might fall on. And a brain, hopefully, as well. And a nose and all the other stuff that goes between us. I mean, he said as well, he's a boy that comes with so much hunger and wants to prove it. It's a dream for him. And we're here to help him. And those sort of dressing room dynamics. It was, you know, a conversation we had on the Arsecast on Friday with Lewis, you know, with regards to Bruno Gimmarais about different dressing room dynamics and how you keep things fresh and keep things bubbling, if that's the right way of putting it.

11:21Right. and someone like Bruno Gimaraes is coming in, you know, potentially, and we'll talk about him in a minute, at 28 years of age, you know, this is kind of the last chance he's got to move to a big club and win big things. And similarly, Solis, you know, he's coming in at 24 with a different career trajectory, but equally hungry to win trophies and contribute. So it is interesting to think about the profiles of the players that we're bringing in this summer above and beyond, you know, the big superstar signing, which I'll ask you all about in a few minutes. Yeah, I think Mick Arteta is quite good whenever he's asked about this, about sort of the need for balance and feeling like the squad can afford to absorb, I think that's the word he uses, absorb players from different age ranges and different moments in their career.

12:14And I think we'll probably see that across the summer business. But yeah, I think Solis is, like we said last week, he feels like a bit of a punt on a clearly talented player. And yeah, it's a great start for him. Intrigued to see more of him as pre-season wears on and we get closer to the actual start of the competitive football. Yeah, we'll get a chance to watch him this week, obviously, in Dublin. So that'll be fun. There was a goal for Gabriel Jesus as well. is that him now well and truly in the shop window after such a telling contribution yeah well we're the time of year is in the uk there's a lot of um summer sales on right now i've just walked down upper street and there's a lot of 50 off uh you know placards um and i slightly wonder if we're into that approaching that moment with gabor jesus um i remember david Austin doing a story at the start of the summer.

13:16I don't know if you remember this about Arsenal hoping to get something like 20 million for Gabriel Jesus. Yes, I remember the story. As I, as I say, I think we may be approaching the 50 % off point in proceedings. It is, it is very quiet around him. You'd have to say, I mean, it is, it may just be a fault of the reporting, but there has been almost no reporting of any interest in him to date. Do we have any idea? I mean, certainly there were some quotes towards the end of last season where he spoke about either his desire or willingness and I think it was more desire than willingness to stay at Arsenal and maybe in his own mind you know contribute a bit more having arrived in the summer of 2022 and been hit by injuries I mean I don't think there's any doubt this is a guy who is diminished by injury and that's sad you know for a footballer to to lose as much of the peak of his career as he has to those injuries the knee injuries but there's no question that it has impacted his game and impacted his ability to contribute to Arsenal so Arsenal's desire maybe to move him on is is understandable but what do we know about what the player wants or do we know anything at this point is it one of those where you know it might just rumble on towards the end of the the transfer window and there's a loan move somewhere rather than there being you know let's say that that kind of firm interest from anywhere else yeah i mean arsenal have been looking at ways to move gabaraj jesus on um for some time now you know for i think certainly they were doing it in January and probably before that too.

15:06It's the chunky salary that's the big issue. I mean, the fee, I guess a fee would be nice, but if you're speaking about bringing in kind of elite marquee level attackers, being able to reallocate Jesus's wage towards that would be a huge help. I mean, he is 12 months from the end of his Arsenal contract. And I don't know this as fact, but it wouldn't surprise me if for his advisors and the people around him, And that was kind of something on their horizon, something they were looking at and thinking, if we want to match this kind of pay packet and secure the best deal for the player and his family, maybe moving as a free agent is the most appealing thing.

15:50I mean, I refer you back to our transfer predictions, Andrew, which are, of course, sacred texts and in no way already wildly wrong. but I think I said Jesus to stay and I at the moment and I don't really see there's nothing persuading me that I'm massively wrong on that okay yeah something may come forward but yeah I don't know what do you see as a realistic destination for Gabro Jesus at this point in his career 29 now he's had the injuries who could take a punt on him with a salary at that kind of level? You know, we're talking easy six figures a week currently. I mean, I think it's the sort of deal that needs, we're sort of going a bit of a throwback.

16:53You know, when we had these players on big salaries who were peripheral, we incentivize their departures. Ah, yes. You know, and I think there are more options if Arsenal are willing to do that with Gabriel Jesus. You know, I think Spain and Italy would be reasonable destinations for him if Arsenal, you know, were to, as we say, incentivize that departure, which is essentially, you know, a payoff or the sort of chunk of salary that would enable another club to tempt him in with what would be a much smaller salary. So that's kind of the only way I see it. I don't really see another Premier League club coming in for him.

17:43Do you? No. I mean, I remember talk about Nottingham Forest maybe being linked in the media at the time when Edu was there. We need Edu back in a job, basically. and it could be the Arsenal job because he was very good at paying people off he did a lot of that just get him in for a what do they call it consultation a quick like one month contract yeah or he turns up at you know another Premier League club and takes him there I mean it's such a shame because you know we're talking about him quite reductively and as a sort of asset that needs to be moved on but he's a fantastic guy and he was such a fantastic player at his best as well I mean he really really was superb in that first six months, wasn't it?

18:30Yeah, we didn't get to see it for very long, unfortunately. Unfortunately. But I think there's almost a sort of purity about that, isn't there? It's like, you know, when he stopped performing, the injuries were there to kind of explain and excuse it. So those few months, those hallowed few months sort of feel all the more special, but they're a long time ago now. And, yeah, I'd like to think that Arsenal will find a solution for him. But, yeah, certainly there's nothing on the immediate horizon. He had some nice moments from what I saw in the friendly. Missed a good chance. Yes, of course. As well as scoring a goal.

19:17I think it was Louis Copley with some nice work in the box and Gabriel Jesus put it wide. And that's another interesting aspect of the Girona game was the view of some of the Hayland boys, some of the Hayland players coming through, getting some minutes at the end. Yeah, the guy who seems to have picked up most traction online was Ife Ibrahim, who was playing at the base of midfield. He seems to have been the focus of the post-match compilations. Just had a very tidy game in the middle of the park. And one of the nice things, isn't it, about pre-season that we see players that those who don't follow the academy particularly closely might not know.

20:00He's not someone I know a ton about, to be honest with you. But yeah, they kind of get thrust into the spotlight. And yeah, fantastic. I mean, Arsenal look pretty coherent. As I say, I watched some of the second half. There were so many changes, so many young players out there being guided through by the likes of Gabriel Jesus and one or two others. And I thought they acquitted themselves very, very well for the most part. So an interesting outing in Spain. Arsenal travel to Ireland today, I think. Not 100 % sure on the timeline, but they better get here before Wednesday because that's when the game is.

20:38Yeah, straight from Spain to Dublin. to Dublin. Yeah. Yeah. So Mikel Arteta was asked about transfers afterwards. And again, didn't really not pull his punches, but there was no equivocation about what he was saying. He said, we're really active trying to improve and evolve the team. That's clear. We expect to have movements in the next few weeks. Obviously we want to get better like anybody else. And you can just see the transfer market and our opponents, what we're doing. We won't sit still and we're very ambitious. with what we are doing. So, you know, there is that sense, I guess, still, which I think has been a little bit allayed over the last week or so anyway, when people got a bit more clarity on what Arsenal were trying to do or are trying to do in the transfer market, the sort of, the lack of stuff was getting people a little bit on edge, you know, which is just, I think, normal for a summer at this point.

21:37If you've lived through one transfer window, you know that's not a new phenomenon or anything else. But he is very clear about, you know, as we said last week, he's very, very clear about what he's looking for from this window. He is, yeah. His mantra is that Arsenal must never waste a window. And I think coming into this summer, that was a big focus and a point he was making internally, that just because you've finally won something, just because you're Premier League champions, doesn't mean you can sit still. There's always a need to push on. And in some respects, it's better to be pushing on from a position of strength.

22:14I think you're right to say people's fears have been somewhat allayed by revelations around what exactly Arsenal are attempting to do in the market, but they've been replaced, of course, with anxieties over how feasible those things are and whether they'll actually happen. Yeah, that's true. So look, there was some developments over the weekend, reports from Brazil and also a report in the Times that everything appears to be not done and dusted, but certainly agreed with regards to Bruno Gimaraes. And there's a question now about whether he's going to go and join up with Newcastle. I forgot to look at the Newcastle Reddit to see if they've got the inside scoop on where Bruno Gimaraes is.

22:59I think they're on a training camp in Spain. He was due back to Newcastle over the weekend. Do we have any clarity on what's going on there? I've seen fees reported somewhere between 70 and 90 million euros, which is, you know, pretty much hedging your bets. I think you're probably right on the money there somewhere. If you pick a number between 70 and 90, you're bound to be in the ballpark anyway. So what do we know about what's going on there? Yeah, I think the fee is going to be between 70 and 90 million. and probably it's going to happen between today and September 2nd. That's my inside scoop on that one.

23:36Oh, listen, you know, you've got a reputation to live up to now. Now that you are, you know, don't want to blow smoke up your arse or anything, but you're now a tier one on Reddit in terms of transfer news, which is, as everybody knows, you've now completed journalism. So congratulations to you. Yeah, I'll be tapping out soon. Yeah, there's nowhere left to go, is there? Started from the bottom, now we're here. I mean, that is genuinely quite mad, but also, I guess, I guess nice. I mean, I guess it's a compliment. So thanks to the guys at Reddit. Because, yeah, that's a very, you know, that's actually a good resource, the Arsenal Reddit page.

24:17I agree. I'm a frequent reader. It's a lively place at times. Yes, it is. It is. It's always interesting to see how stuff lands. gives you quite a quick, since X sort of went down the pan, it's often my place for like a quick read on Arsenal centre. So I'm touched that they even care who I am. So yeah, I think on Bruno, it's a really weird one, this. Like it's a very odd story in that, what do we know? We know that Arsenal are working on it. We know it's getting closer. We know there's an acceptance that it's going to happen. I mean, Eddie Howe walked from Newcastle this week, didn't he? And I think this thing of losing his key players from underneath him was certainly a factor in that, as well as their inability to sign anybody they want at the same time.

25:12But it's odd because Newcastle, be it independently or via various reporters, have been so consistent in kind of knocking it down and denying that anything is going on. And I can't believe that it's just sort of naivety because obviously a lot of these talks aren't official or formal or happening maybe via ownership rather than through executives. But I can't imagine for a second that Newcastle aren't aware of that possibility or aren't across that. So is it about optics? Is it about positioning? Is it about not wanting to send a message that they're about to lose Bruno? I mean, I think back to last summer and the fact that everyone knew Newcastle were at risk of losing Isaac gave them a nightmare situation in the transfer market where every time they went to look at Stryker, the price doubled.

26:10And then you end up paying huge money for Wisser and Volta Marder and that didn't work out too well. So maybe it's about, you know, trying to do their work, identifying, sourcing replacements on the quiet. But it is a very, very, very curious disparity, like what we're hearing concretely and firmly about Arsenal's intentions and how close they are to securing it versus what Newcastle are saying. I've never come across anything quite like it and it seems like it's been quite a

26:49hostile process I don't think the way Arsenal have gone about it has left Newcastle particularly impressed although I'm not sure they were ever going to be particularly impressed with losing their best player But is the way Arsenal have gone about it is that outside the bounds of normality when it comes to you know a transfer between Premier League clubs because we know okay you know you're Newcastle I'm Arsenal I come along and say hello I'd like to buy your captain and you say no and I say well I'll give you 60 million and you go no we we wouldn't take anything less than 90 million and then we have this lovely dialogue We come to an arrangement.

27:36It's all above board, you know, but that's not the reality of how transfers work. You know, there are agents, there are intermediaries, there are things going on in back channels all the time. You know, you're going to scope out whether a player actually wants to come and join you before you actually make an approach to a club. So is there something particularly egregious about the way that Arsenal have gone about this? Is it anything to do with who they've got to do the intermediary work? Or do you have any insight into that? Well, first of all, it depends whether we sort of believe what we hear out of Newcastle.

28:13You know, Newcastle's contention is that they've heard nothing formal or official from Arsenal on this at all. Is that true? I really don't know. if it is true I think that part is a little unusual because even if the negotiations were happening via other means you'd expect a kind of courtesy call of by the way this is our intention this is what's happening and you know can we do a deal here it does seem that Andrew Berta this summer is employing the means of sort of getting an agent on side so agreeing a deal for a player and then effectively saying to those agents, well, listen, you can represent the club, go and get them out of their current contract, go and find out what we need to pay, what it will take.

29:04And there's a logic to that. It's not especially unusual in football and no one is more incentivized than the agent to make that move happen generally. So they'll work pretty hard. And for the agent, it makes sense because they get kind of double commission. They can be paid representing the player, but also representing the club. So it's usually a pretty decent arrangement for them too. Yeah. The only thing that's odd about it, like I say, is just that Newcastle's absolute insistence that Arsenal haven't been in any way forthcoming about their interest in Bruno. Regardless of that, everything we hear suggests this is approaching its conclusion and that Arsenal feel that they'll be able to finalise the deal sooner rather than later.

29:50Yeah, figures I've heard have varied, but generally landing somewhere between the total package between 70 and 80 million pounds, which is probably around where you would have thought it would have ended up. It's just been a bit of a protracted process to get there. Okay. Well, we'll see what happens this week, if there are any developments, whether Newcastle will make it known that Arsenal have been in touch or not been in touch. and we'll see where the player ends up. And then, of course, the big one is Vinicius Jr. And this is one of those where it feels like there's sort of a lot of chat about it, but not a lot of development.

30:38Where, you know, whatever is happening behind the scenes is happening well and truly behind the scenes. There was talk of personal terms being agreed. the agency that represents Vinicius Junior has come out with a statement I think did you see this? Yeah Roc Nation put something out about media reports but I have to be honest I don't know if that was about Vinicius or about they're involved in the Diamande Real Madrid deal and there seems to be some dispute with Diamande's previous agent I think it may be Max Gradel or I don't know how you pronounce that but he used to play for Leeds. Do you remember him?

31:19Oh, yeah. Winger. Wow. If it's not him, he's got the same name. I assume it is him. Right. Anyway, there seems to be some dispute around that. So I do wonder if their public pronouncement about media reports relates more to that than the Vinicius thing. But who knows? Maybe they're firing shots directly at me and my athletic colleagues. They saw that I was made tier one and they were like we're not having that yeah it could be that i mean obviously there was a an update from hand of arsenal who said um something along the lines of personal terms are all agreed rock nation will come out and deny this um which they haven't necessarily done specifically but certainly they put a a story out um it's good though not only does hand of arsenal have the inside track on kind of transfer gossip but they can also now predict the future it's enormous power there at this point in time yeah get on those um what do you call them what are those things that are ruining the world like polymarket and that kind of shit those prediction markets you know get on board there make your bank and retire just go live on a beach with your feet up in a hammock and a pina colada that's the dream but yeah this one i mean i think I remember the day after it broke, you wrote in your blog something along the lines of, and I'm paraphrasing here, so forgive me, but this is going to be a bit of a circus.

32:56Like this is going to be - Saga, I think is the word I used. Yeah. Saga. Yeah. And that appears much like Hand of Arsenal, you've correctly foretold that because I think when it's a story of this size and scale and particularly when it involves the big spanish clubs and with the sheer wealth of coverage that surrounds them we are firmly into uh the kind of

33:22Andrew Mangan: the the micro update phase of this particular story yeah i mean to sort of paint the picture above and beyond you know the the spanish football press right where you have the the two madrid-based newspapers and the two Catalan-based newspapers, but they're still writing about all the clubs. So they're writing about Barcelona from Catalonia, but they're also covering Real Madrid, you know, who are one of the biggest clubs in the world. So you've got that sort of daily coverage. You've got the media, El Chiringuito, the radio stations, the other newspapers. then on top of that all the sort of online world which exists around a club like Real Madrid where you have I'm sure you know similar I don't want to say ITKs but you know people uh who cover the club in in minute detail and maybe the way that we would do you know on Arseblog or on this podcast and more broadly, you've got all of that.

34:25And everybody in that particular world, I think, is sort of vying for a certain amount of attention or a certain amount of engagement, right? Because for many of those outlets, the engagement is really, really important because it drives their revenues through advertising and things like that. We don't have any advertising on Arseblog, so we're not we're not sort of subject to that kind of thing but that sort of plays into all of this you know this sort of enormous amount of coverage with kind of everybody saying more or less the same thing but in a thousand different ways yeah absolutely and again a player

35:11Andrew Mangan: with this kind of profile, right? It's a huge international global star. That brings the Brazilian media into proceedings as well. Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten about that too, yeah, of course. So it's a huge international story and one where people are absolutely insanely invested in the outcome. I mean, yeah, the sort of backroom numbers on any mention of Vinicius anywhere on The Athletic at the moment are startling. and also I guess that you know for sites like you say that are driven by advertising or clicks or views I guess that's an incentivization to to run stuff even if it's not necessarily a firm or concrete development at this point yeah so yeah I mean I think we're trying to stay out of that as far as we can and try and be responsible in terms of what we say and when I think for both the Vinicius deal and the Bruno deal, this is a big week because it's players due back at clubs, right?

36:13I think Bruno is in transit back to Europe and presumably there'll be a meeting about his future when he lands with Newcastle. Vinicius says the added layer of contract talks. There's been all kinds of suggestions around those contract talks. Is he prepared to lower his demand? Have Real made their final offer? Are there going to be further discussions? Because that's the key issue with his whether an agreement can be found with madrid i mean if it can then any agreement he has with arsenal which i must say i don't i don't definitively know about is moot um because you know he'll probably stay where he is so it's it's very very delicately balanced and then there is a third outcome for vinicius as well i think we have to be mindful of we spoke about it with regards to george jesus but he will be 12 months from the end of his contract and his choice then will be, if he turns down Madrid's offer, do I leave to join Arsenal now?

37:11Or do I wait it out and see what my options are in 12 months' time where potentially I can become one of the most highest paid footballers ever? But does that, let's say, does the onus on him rejecting that as an option kind of lie on Arsenal and Mikel Arteta and Andrea Berta, for example, where obviously that's a very attractive proposition, but you've got 12 months at a club where, you know, there's going to be such coverage over every aspect of everything you do. We know what it's like when a player gets into the final 12 months of their contract, particularly when you would, in inverted commas, know more or less that he's going to see it out, right?

38:03And you're going to leave on a free because that's what that's about. So you become a player who's already very highly under the microscope, right? For every bit of everything that he does, every on the ball thing, every off the ball thing, all of his behaviors for various reasons, and some of them, you know, not right, are scrutinized to the nth degree already. Does he not leave himself open to that becoming absolute mayhem? therefore as a way of sort of getting him to eschew that kind of 12 months at Real Madrid Arsenal can offer him the attractive proposition of being the star of you know becoming this sort of superstar in North London and sort of taking him away from that potential to use the word that you used earlier circus yeah I mean it could be a pretty uncomfortable 12 months yeah if he chooses to sit it out and he's got an incoming coach in Jose Mourinho who he's probably well aware won't hesitate to throw him under the bus if needs be.

39:14So yeah, I don't think that's a straightforward option to take. I think it would be very, very complex and could lead to a difficult period and season, a time in his career where, you know, he can't necessarily afford that. He just want to waste a year you know when there's an attractive option on the table and arsenal are presenting an attractive option they really think that um they can be a the right home for vinicius and that he can come and be the star of not just this team but the premier league they really feel that this could be a sort of hugely impactful signing for english football um so yeah it's It's a tantalising prospect.

40:03And I guess we're all kind of waiting for the resolution of these contract negotiations with Madrid to get some clarity on that. But Arsenal are very much waiting in the wings. They are putting a huge amount of work into this. They are stretching the parameters of what's possible with the numbers. So, yeah, unfortunately, I don't think we have much choice but to wait and see. Just sit and wait. I think that's just how this is going to play out. And as uncomfortable as it is, you know, it is, I think, also kind of a fact of trying to sign one of the biggest players in the world from one of the biggest clubs in the world.

40:42That, you know, deal. If it's complicated to get Bruno Gimeraj from Newcastle, just think how complicated it is to get Vinicius Jr. from Real Madrid. Absolutely. And the thing is, I mean, I hope it happens for all sorts of reasons. And I hope it happens this summer. But we know ourselves from the way we've lost players in these big sort of tugs of war. These can sometimes be very protracted pursuits. And Real Madrid, you know, they know themselves that they'll often target a player two or three years in a row before they finally get their man. It can rumble on and on. And probably Arsenal being in for him this summer, I'm sure they want to do it immediately.

41:25but it's also with the knowledge of this may extend, this may go on. So yeah, I think it's, it would just be an absolutely enormous signing for all kinds of reasons, but I don't think there's any certainty yet which way it goes. And yeah, we wait for real news, I guess. Yes, I think that's the right way of putting it. And hopefully we get some of that this week. There is, of course, another even bigger transfer story over the weekend, and that is Christian Norgard looks set to join Everton. Not a surprise, is it, to be honest, in that he really didn't play a great deal in the Premier League last season.

42:12Only started one game. That was on the final day of the season when the title had been won. And he did provide depth and cover in the cup competitions over the course of the season. So I think he fulfilled a role within the squad last season, probably not the one that he had envisaged for himself. I'm sure he would have preferred to play more in the Premier League. You know, he was captain of Brentford and didn't really play very much in the Premier League at all. So it's not a surprise, I think, that at 32 years of age, and as a guy who's going to maybe play a couple more years, that he has decided, which I presume is the way it's happened, is that he has decided that he's got to go somewhere else to get regular playing time.

43:00Andrew Mangan: Yeah, I mean, I think it's probably pretty mutual, to be honest. Yeah. I can't see the club you know fighting tooth and nail to keep him given how little he was used last season I think sort of mission accomplished from Christian Norgard's perspective I mean he always wanted to play for a club of this stature and play in the Champions League and he did it he won the Premier League title which you know I don't think he would have foreseen necessarily in his future while he was at Brentford so good luck to him good luck to him a popular guy good dressing room influence yeah I mean look I don't think this was I don't think this was a good signing I have to be honest I think All God clearly is a really well liked and good person and certainly a decent Premier League player in the right team and in the right environment but I just can't believe that when Arsenal bought him, they had any sense of how little he would play.

44:04And if you think about the fact that he was effectively coming in for Jorginho, his degree of usefulness to us in Premier League terms was sadly substantially below that. Well, yeah, it felt like a bit of an emergency move because there was the other situation last summer with regards to Thomas Partey, which left Arsenal needing an experienced midfielder. So they went for Norgard pretty quickly after that Partey stuff dropped and they dropped their willingness, which we discussed at length and don't need to go over again. But it's, you know, it's a bad thing that they were going to offer him a new contract.

44:45So they needed somebody quickly. And I guess, you know, on the grapevine or whatever, he was he was available and he was he made sense in that in that market and in that context. You know, he was in London, didn't need to move house or any, you know, get accustomed to the Premier League. But, you know, it's hard to think that with the right kind of time and planning that he is the sort of player that we would have bought. Yeah. And I think, yeah, it felt, you know, we've spoken about Miklartessa kind of making his mind up on players. And it really did feel that in terms of the Premier League and the Champions League, his mind was made up pretty quickly on his assessment of Norgaard's usefulness.

45:30So, yeah, I think it's right that he moves on. Seven million quid, I think I saw reported by David. I mean, it's something. It's probably better than I thought we would get for him. And, yeah, I do wish him all the best. I think Everton makes a ton of sense. I mean, you know, he will fit into that team pretty well. They're a big set-piece side as well, like Arsenal. That's one of his real strengths, although he didn't see a great deal of that in his time at Arsenal. You know, he's a real threat for Brentford in those situations. And yeah, I imagine that will go through soon. If you look at Norgard going out, Bruno coming in, you have to say that's a, in terms of Miklarteta's midfield options, feels like a big upgrade.

46:14It definitely is. It definitely is. I can't remember what we predicted. Did you write down the predictions? Did anyone write down the predictions? I think we both predicted Norgaard would go, but I can't remember what I thought we would get from. I think we said like... Maybe five million, something like that. I've got mine written down and I had five million, yeah. I had mine written down on a piece of paper. Oh, well, they famously last forever and don't get lost, so... Well, certainly when you do a big tidy up in your office and rip up loads of sheets of paper that have been on your desk for ages.

46:51Richelastic burning of the predictions. No doubt somebody, one of our wonderful listeners, has already got this in a spreadsheet to laud us and give us praise at the end of every transfer window saying, you guys did it again. How right you are all the time. How do you keep getting things so right when it comes to these transfer predictions? And we're like, hey, that's just, you know, it's innate. I feel like as a rule, you are generally a bit stingier with your fees received. I think he might have been lower, like$3 million or so, in which case you've more than doubled your money, Andrew. Yeah.

47:28Well, fair enough. I'm glad of that. I'm glad of that at least. I've got a few extra quid to add to the Vinicius Jr. budget and also the can we get the website working budget, which I think has been skimped on. They've had to shelve Project Vinicius to focus on the streaming capability. Yeah, Project WWW is taking up all our revenue. I think that's more or less everything from, you know, the sort of general news and developments perspective, isn't it? There's nothing we're missing. Yeah. No, I think, you know, we talked about the game. That was the main one. And, yeah, like you say, another game on Wednesday this week.

48:10I'll be over there in Dublin with you for the Real Betis match. And we're doing a little bit of an event in Dublin, which is sold out, unfortunately. it did sell out but we'll look forward to seeing some of you at the sugar club on leeson street on tuesday that's tomorrow evening holy fuck um we shouldn't have talked about so much we've got nothing left to talk about tomorrow we really need some fucking bruno and vinnie developments in the next 24 hours we're on it can you you make that happen i'll nudge david and see where we get get that sorted all right we will take a little break here and we'll come back with your questions and more in part two right after this.

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50:31Welcome back to the Arsecast Extra. This is part two of the show where we answer the questions that you send to us on bluesky at gunnerblog.bsky.social and at arseblog.com. Also on the Arseblog Discord chat server, which you get access to if you are an Arseblog member on Patreon. And just to let people know, not this week, but next week, we'll be announcing, you know, our Fantasy Football League, which gives you cash prizes to win across Patreon. And we'll be bringing back the 30 and all the preview podcasts and all of that kind of stuff ahead of the new season. So we'll give you more details of that, That's what you can get for your Patreon subscription, which you can find out at patreon.com forward slash arseblock.

51:11Right. Let's get on with the questions. And here is one, an interesting one from Will Colgate. Oh, I like this. His name is Will Colgate, but his username on Blue Sky is at aquafresh92. That's good. Yeah. That's good. What does he go by on Twitter if he's still on there? Mr. crest or or will be you probably get the wrong kind of follower if that was your name anyway will colgate says where do you think gabrielle martinelli ends up now i think this is based on the the presumption that vinicius jr happens so if that happens where does gabrielle martinelli end up he says I had him as someone Atletico Madrid would love defensively solid very direct but they bought a left winger I don't know who has the cash in the team to fit him in or does he fill in Gabriel Jesus's position in the squad if Gabriel Jesus goes is there room for Martinelli as like the the third striker I was going to say where does he end up number nine of course the prophecy is fulfilled um yeah it's a really interesting one congratulations by the way to Gary Martinelli who I think got married this week or last week.

52:33So I'm sure his immediate footballing future is probably not at the forefront of his mind right now. It would be interesting to see if Vinicius came in. I mean, obviously they played together for Brazil in the World Cup this summer, particularly with Martinelli. That's the 10. Yeah, stepping into that more central role, which adds another string to his bio potentially. I don't know. Arsenal do have a bit less urgency in terms of sort of needing to make a decision on Martinelli because he's got the one year on his contract, but they've got an option to extend for a further 12 months beyond that.

53:11And given the depth of feeling, I think, that exists between Martinelli and Arsenal, you can't imagine he would object to that. And even if he does, it's Arsenal's prerogative. So, yeah, I have no idea where he would go. You know, I've seen PSG mentioned. I've seen Atletico Madrid actually is a good suggestion. I mean, you would think he'd be a good fit in a team like that with his work ethic, his physicality, his running power. Diogo Simeone would enjoy a player like that. But they've just bought a left winger apparently. Yeah, they've just bought an F1. So unless they're going to play him in the 10, I don't necessarily see it.

53:57So yeah, I'm not sure. And I'm not sure, again, to come back to our transfer predictions. I can't remember what I predicted on Martinelli. I don't think, I think I had him staying. And I think at the moment, that would be my inclination. You know, there's not an obvious place for him to go, but maybe that will change as the window develops and, you know, teams' needs become more urgent or more apparent. What do you think? I mean, I think there's something to sort out, obviously. If we can get the Vinicius Jr. deal done, then you've got Christos Salas, who's ostensibly, you know, a left-sided player, a new arrival.

54:37So he's going to play quite a lot or he's going to be, you know, in the forefront of the manager's mind. Vinicius Jr., like we're not bringing him in to play left-back, I assume. This could be Mikel Arteta's greatest left-back signing ever. No, but you know what I mean? So there's two guys there for that left-hand side, which is essentially where Martinelli has played most of his Arsenal career. He can play on the right, but Arsenal also have Bakao Saka and Max Downman and Nani Matuweke. If he stays, and I wouldn't be averse to him staying, Arsenal might be inclined this summer, if they are going to splash out big on Vinicius Jr., there might be a little bit of pressure to sell players to offset some of that expenditure.

55:21And he would be, I'm not saying surplus to requirements, but if you bring in two players for his position, then it seems logical that he might be a guy you're willing to let go. It's a question of where. I wouldn't be averse to him staying, to be honest, if we could move Jesus on Martinelli as another option down the middle, you know, to sort of bolster that position with Havertz and Jokka as already there. I wouldn't be averse to that at all. But I think, like you say, it might take the market shaking out a little bit before we quite know what will happen there. I suspect Arsenal would be willing to let him go if they can bring in Vinicius Junior, because I think you've made a decision there about your left-hand side.

56:05Andrew Mangan: I agree with that. I mean, Bayern Munich are a team that have been mentioned in recent windows. Aston Villa we know Unai Emery likes him but they've brought in Garnaccio haven't they for that left-hand side so we need Edu to turn up somewhere all our transfer problems yeah yeah can be solved what do Edu do now we know at last we know what Edu need to do yeah um he took Zinchenko off Arsenal's hands, didn't he, last summer? So I think, yeah, I don't, I think you're right. I think if Vinicius signs, because I'm not personally convinced that Michel Arteta really buys into Martinelli as a central option or as a nine.

56:52Andrew Mangan: No, me neither. I think, for example, Mikel Moreno would probably figure more prominently in his thoughts around that position. You know, we had a chat a few weeks ago about like, what would happen if we sold Jesus? Would we have to bring somebody in? and many listeners got in touch with me to say, you didn't mention Marino in that conversation. That's true. And I mean, Marino is about as good a third choice nine as you could hope to have, as well as a very decent midfield option too. So yeah, I'm not, I think if Inicius comes in, it's tough for Martinelli. They might see a merit in sort of keeping him round at the very start of the season when who knows what kind of physical state some of the players will be in.

57:37Andrew Mangan: He might be a useful option at that point in time. But if there is somewhere for him to go, I think it might suit everybody, mightn't it? Yeah, for sure. For sure. But yeah, no idea where at this point in time. Here is a question. It's from El Chupacabra. And they say, Goodly morning, gents. After James' story last week, which was about this particular player being a training with Crystal Palace, are either of you surprised that Arsenal aren't interested in Tommy Yasu? He can cover centre-back and right-back, knows the club and the manager and is available for free. Granted, he has serious injury issues, but if he's good enough for Palace to look at, should we not also be?

58:26listen I've spoken many times on this podcast about what a an amazing player I think Takahiro Tomiyasu is or could have been to be honest that that sort of versatility right across the the back line in both fullback positions and at center half in both center half positions is so rare and he was so good you know when he was when he was fit um but that obviously became a significant issue. I think Arsler probably as well placed as anybody to understand the seriousness of the fitness issues, the injury issues that he's had. And it's sort of my... And my concern when we were linked to John Stones, right, was that if you are bringing in a player with a sketchy injury record to provide cover for one of your best players, who is going to be out of action for a few months in the shape of William Saliba, I think you do need to maximize the availability box as much as possible.

59:35You know what I mean? So Tommy Asu, if he could stay fit, would be a brilliant option. Like if he was a free agent without any of the, you know, the injury issues, you go, yeah, of course, do it. But I don't know that we can be 100 % certain that the injury problems won't inhibit him again, you know? So I think it would be, I think it would just be too risky. of course he's going to turn up at Palace now and play 38 Premier League games, 90 minutes every game, and I'm going to look like a chump. But I could understand why Arsenal were, you know, or would be reluctant because they know him and they know the injury issues that he's had.

1:00:13It's nothing to do with his quality as a player. It's entirely to do with his fitness and everything else. Yeah, I concur. I think, I don't think it would be particularly good

1:00:27Andrew Mangan: for either party to go back? I mean, would Tommy Asu want to come back to Arsenal as well? Like in a role where he knows if everybody's fit, probably he's not playing. Is that what he needs at this point in his own journey? I suspect not. I suspect he needs somewhere where he's going to get regular football and maybe a club where the, I don't know. I don't know where, maybe a club slightly lower in the football pyramid, like a Crystal Palace does make some sense. You know, the intensity of the way Arsenal play is very physically demanding, particularly for a fullback. I think his football will be played at centre-half, wherever he goes, to be honest, now.

1:01:13I think that will reduce some of the physical strain on him. Sure, yeah. Yeah, Arsenal are looking for a defender. They are looking for somebody to cover for William Saliba. I think a little bit like with the Bruno signing, they're looking for someone who has Premier League experience, can step straight in and cover immediately. But I think, yeah, I'm not persuaded that Tomi Asu is the right move. And yeah, we wait to see which direction they go with that one because that is the big outstanding omission really on the transfer business. if they do manage to land this and they do get Bruno over the line, they're still looking for a centre-half.

1:01:53We did have a question about that. Do you think they are definitely looking for a centre-half? Because I saw, you know, obviously the Esri Kansa story, you know, was doing the rounds and has been doing the rounds. But I also saw that Arsenal were looking at the Spanish guy, Ivan Fresneda, who... They've liked him for a long time. They have, yeah, they have. It goes back, I checked, you know, The first transfer story we did about him on Arsplug News was three years ago when he was still in Spain. He's at Sporting now, a club we obviously have a great relationship with after the Victor Jokeres thing.

1:02:29But, you know, as an alternative, you know, if you're going to use maybe Ben White or you're going to use Jurian Timber and you've got Christian Mosquera, the right back option. Is that something you think Arsenal are exploring or would they like somebody who could potentially play centre half and right back? Yeah, I quite like the right back idea. Fresneda is someone I think Arsenal had a conversation about just prior to the January window during last season. They do really, really like him. I think Roma have been in quite strongly for him in this summer market. Not sure Arsenal have made any sort of official approach as yet, but he's definitely a player who is on Mikel Arteta's radar.

1:03:13And there is a certain logic to bringing in a right back, Whether Ben White stays or not this summer, he's probably not the man for the long-term future in that position. It would afford you the opportunity to shift White or Timber in field. And I think there may be an argument that Jirion Timber is the best replacement for William Saliba as a kind of right-sided centre-half. However, everything I've heard in the past couple of weeks has been more about Arsenal looking at more conventional centre-backs. So, yeah, let's wait and see. I mean, the John Stones option is off the table now. He's gone to Inter Milan.

1:03:54I'm sure they'll work their magic and he'll play for another 10 years or something in Serie A. Esri Konza one seems to have gone a bit quiet, doesn't it? There's a lad at Como that they like. There are one or two more. I think Premier League experience would be a bonus if they can find it. We know how Mikel Arteta prizes that. So, yeah, curious to see what they identify and also what sort of money is available to do that if they have to commit to the Vinicius deal.

1:04:24Andrew Mangan: One aspect of the Vinicius deal that we haven't really talked about is what is the right fee and what are Arsenal and Madrid's expectations on that fee? my information is there's a pretty big gap between what Arsenal think they should be paying for a player with 12 months remaining on their contract and what Madrid feel they should obtain so if it chooses Arsenal I think there'll still be a pretty protracted negotiation to figure out where that price point is yeah and there was a question and I can't find I was just looking for it while we were talking so apologies to whoever asked this oh here it is from jacob d on blue sky um he said like most i'm ecstatic about the possibility of signing venetius jr but do you think the wages he would demand would have a detrimental effect on the club long term due to the smashed wage structure how do clubs manage outlier salaries like this like you know that thing about okay he's the star and i think you know if you make a signing of this stature you can understand why that guy might become the highest paid player at your club and i think players will understand that to an extent but you also have the you've got to keep things within a certain bracket right a rising tide lifts all boats, et cetera, et cetera, that if this guy's coming in and he's earning way, way more than your other big players, does that create a difficulty?

1:06:03And how do Arsenal go about managing that?

1:06:07Andrew Mangan: I have to say that my sort of gut response on this is that I do think, you know, we're talking about Arsenal making an exception for Vinicius. And I think that that would be, assuming he delivers on the pitch, a kind of understandable exception, given the context of the deal and the nature of the deal. But inevitably, other senior players are going to look at that. I mean, when Bukai Saka got his contract that made him the highest paid player at the club, it was noted. It was noted by other agents, you know, associated with the club. And they were looking at that as a benchmark. Would they justifiably be able to do that with Vinicius?

1:06:48I don't know. I mean, the big negotiation that I think that's on the horizon is the Declan Rice one. You know, would Declan Rice be within his rights to demand parity with Vinicius? It also depends how the deal is structured. I mean, I think any deal for Vinicius, we're talking about image rights and his percentage of those image rights that he retains. I think in terms of kind of his commercial potential, he is you know perhaps bigger than any current Arsenal player so there's all kinds of nuances to it but um I don't know I must say it's not keeping me up at night what do you what do you think I think you know there's an inevitable consequence of smashing through your wage ceiling right I think that's just normal but I think it happens pretty frequently at football clubs you know let's go back to the leandro trossard situation last year where he got a pay rise right without an extension on his contract and everyone was sort of saying well why are arsenal doing that but i think part of the reason why arsenal did it was because they gave two contracts to Myles Lewis-Gelley and Ethan Warneri last year, which I don't think were cheap, you know, to get those two young talents to commit.

1:08:16You know, they had to pay decent wages to those players, which then left a sort of imbalance between these guys at the fledgling point of their careers and a senior player like Leandro Trossard, who was, you know, had delivered a lot for the club since he signed, right? So they manage it that way. They give him that bit of a pay bump and it makes that gap or whatever that gap is a little more acceptable, right? So I think it's something clubs deal with all the time. But when you go through the roof like this, I think there is just, you know, you are committing to that yourself as a club saying, okay, we are willing to do this and we're willing to live with the consequences of this because it's not just the four-year deal or five-year deal or whatever it might be for Vinicius Jr.

1:09:14And however that's structured, you know, with image rights, with signing on fee paid over the course of a contract, you know, the weekly salary might be more in line with your top earners at the club, the Declan Rice, the Bukayo Saka, et cetera, et cetera. but you know the the other parts the bonuses and the the things that are paid over the course of the contract make it a much bigger contract but i think if you're going into a deal like this as arsenal football club and you're saying okay we're willing to do this deal we're willing to pay that money we know now that we've set a new threshold for wages and that's something we're going to have to live with and that's something we're prepared to live with so like you it doesn't really keep me up at night.

1:09:54It's sort of like the, well, it's nothing like the stadium expansion thing, right? But the idea of that, you know, if you're going to expand the stadium, and I know there's a long way to go before anything like that happens. But if you are committing to that idea of the investment that it would take and the absolute need to fill every single one of those 70 ,000 or 75 ,000 seats every game, every week. It speaks to a commitment to maintaining the level of the club and the team to me. Does that make sense? You know that you can't just sort of say, right, we're going to expand the stadium. But then if you end up back in Europa League or no Europe, you're fucked.

1:10:44You know, so there's a slight comfort in that for me, if that makes sense to you, you know?

1:10:50Andrew Mangan: Yeah, I think where it gets really interesting for me is as a test of kind of Mikel Arteta's squad management. Because if we think back a few years ago, you know, when we had players on substantially higher salaries than others, the likes of Bamiyang or Ozil, it kind of went sour, right? And Arteta kind of seemed to adopt this more kind of egalitarian approach to squad building. Yeah. Where he wanted like young, hungry, motivated players within a smaller range of salary pulling in the same direction. And yeah, there are examples in recent history of kind of the star system at Arsenal and indeed under Arteta arguably failing.

1:11:41Andrew Mangan: So I think it will be a really interesting plot to follow to see how has that evolved and shifted and are Arsenal and the manager ready to absorb a player on that level? And maybe as champions, you know, we're in a better position to do that than we've ever been. And maybe, you know, we're Premier League winners, we're Champions League finalists, like any player who's joining, we're asking them to buy into an ideology rather than just set the ideology. Yeah, exactly. You know, I think in the initial reporting on this Vinicius thing with yourself and David, I think, you know, the idea was approved at all levels, I think was the terminology, right?

1:12:29And you might read that as saying, well, the idea is approved by the board, the executives, the owners, the manager, all of that. And that might well be true and that might well be what it is. But I think broadening that out, you have to look at it at all levels of the club and what it means for your first team, what it means for your dressing room and all of those kinds of things. So I can only assume that Arsenal have decided, having considered all of those things, that it's the right way to do it. you know so yep um is my question or your question i think it's mine okay um so this is from wf

1:13:07Andrew Mangan: how do you say this w finale on blue sky okay and they say how do you think the signing of bruno gibber is should it go through will change our starting 11. last summer we signed zubamendi meaning Rice played more as the left centre midfielder. Now we're signing Bruno. Does it appear Rice will be back in the sixth? Does this finally cement Rice as the CDM in our starting 11? Yeah, I'm fascinated to see what it means in the longer term because I think he is a more effective player further forward. Bruno Guimaraes, I mean. rather than that sort of anchorman, that six. I think he operates best in the position that Declan Rice typically plays in.

1:13:59And I don't think we're buying a Declan Rice replacement. Call me crazy, but I don't believe that's the case.

1:14:07Andrew Mangan: I think he can be that if needed. But I think clearly when you're paying as much as we intend to play for Bruno, he ain't a backup, is he? No, I don't think so. I don't think so. So it might mean Rice as the six. And then it might mean Rice and Zubimendi sharing those minutes as the six. And you have, I don't know, you've got Mikel Moreno and you've got Martin Odegaard. And then you've got Bruno Gimaraes and you've got Myles Lewis-Gelly, perhaps, as the alternates on the other side of midfield. I mean, midfield will be stacked if we do this deal, if we do the Bruno deal. You know, you have Gimaraes, Rice, Zubamendi, Odegaard, Marino, Louis Skelly, Ethan Ranieri, as it stands.

1:14:56Maybe Max Damon, you know, as somebody who's in there as well. Ife Ibrahim, Andrew. Yeah, him too. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of chat about him. I mean, there's a lot of quality and depth there. Some people will say that's probably a little bit too much and that a departure is inevitable one way or the other. And I think there's probably going to be at least one midfield departure this summer. But yeah, it gives Mikel Arteta options, that's for sure. But what I don't see necessarily is Bruno Guimaraes playing anywhere other than sort of closer to the box. He'd be closer to the opposition box than our box.

1:15:42That's what I would say.

1:15:44Andrew Mangan: Yeah, it's interesting because a bit like Declan Rice, he can do a bit of both and he has done a bit of both. I mean, I sort of think, isn't what we saw for much of last season a move to more of a kind of double pivot shape? And aren't Bruno and Rice pretty well suited to kind of sharing those particular roles? Yeah, I didn't even mention Eze in my list of midfielders. Yeah, I mean, someone's got to go. I think I agree with you there, if Bruno comes in, beyond Christian Norgard. But do you think that the shape of the team needs to reflect? Like, you're bringing Bruno Gimaraes in to be a goal threat, which he absolutely is.

1:16:26and he's creative and he can make those passes in the opposition half. Do you not think then with the sort of talent that we would have available to us that the shape of the team should not be a double pivot? It should be an anchorman, a six and two eights for want of a better term or eight, ten hybrids or whatever the hell they're going to be called, right? Does that not feel a more natural development for this team? Or do you think he will stick with a double pivot and then you've got basically a 10 or you've got maybe a midfield slight triangle situation where you've got a 6 and an 8 that are maybe not quite double pivots?

1:17:12But, you know, I personally, I would prefer to see us playing with two more attacking creative midfielders with one deep lying midfielder behind them. Maybe, yeah. I mean,

1:17:28Andrew Mangan: maybe, Andrew, maybe I just don't know ball. They've been saying it for years, but I don't see Bruno as like a super attack minded player, particularly, you know, like I. I feel like even in that Newcastle midfield, he was always, it was always a kind of a Joe Linton or a Willock or someone like that. He was sort of really breaking forward to, to join the attack. I see it as someone who unlocks quite a lot with his passing, but more so from deeper positions. So yeah, I like a midfield of Rice, Bruno and Eze, let's say, or Rice, Bruno and Odegaard still feels to me to be more. And of course it depends how they set up and how they play and in what phase of the game, but it still feels to be more, more defensive than offensive in my mind.

1:18:26Andrew Mangan: Certainly it's not Rice, Eze, Odegaard. Yeah. But yeah, I guess the truth is we don't quite know how they intend Bruno to be used. Yeah, what I think we can say is he's going to play a lot of games. And I think it's really interesting when you lay out all those midfield options. Did you see the story? I think Miguel Delaney did a story about Manchester United being interested in Myles Lewis Skelly. and I must say I don't get the impression that Arsenal intend to allow Lewis Scully to leave this summer but I do feel for him a little bit like if I think back to 12 months ago I felt like he sort of established himself the previous season and left back and then what happens in the summer we go in and bring in a kind of experienced winning South American international and Pierre and Capier to play in that position.

1:19:28And then I feel like he's just made a little bit of a breakthrough in midfield. And then suddenly here's Bruno Guimaraes potentially stepping into that. So I don't know. Yeah, I don't think he would be the one to go. I think much more likely than Ranieri at this point in time. But I could understand if Lewis Skelly felt a bit frustrated about that

1:19:50Andrew Mangan: kind of two successive shots back to back. Sure. and yeah listen we were making assumptions and we don't know does it does it tell us something about you know michael arteta and how he views miles i'm not 100 sure but certainly i i can see where you're coming from in in that sense anyway listen it'll it'll all come out in the wash and we'll all have opinions on it as the the season goes um but they must is a lot of options and That's a positive thing. Yeah, I think so. Too many cooks perhaps might spoil the broth, but maybe part of next season isn't about playing one way, but various ways.

1:20:35That's a very, very good point. We potentially could be accused of being a bit predictable. And I don't think that's by design necessarily. I think injuries, certainly the season before last, played a part in that last season. There were other factors, but I think you could probably predict, well, for most of the season, you could probably have predicted the Arsenal lineup pretty easily. And maybe part of what we're trying to do this summer is to add that level of variance. Here's a question, because you mentioned some of the young players. Jezza81 on the Discord. I was impressed with some of the lesser known youngsters who played against Girona.

1:21:16Would you be against using the Carabao Cup next season the way Arsene Wenger used to, i.e. only youngsters and players who rarely play and steer clear of ever using the likes of Rice, Saka, regardless of the opposition and progress in the competition?

1:21:38Andrew Mangan: Would I be against it? I'm not sure we have. when people talk about that kind of arsene wenger use of the carabao cup like it was really a time when we had really outstanding kind of prospects uh that we'd actually spent quite a lot of money on generally to acquire um breaking through and and with all due respect to those guys who played in the friendly against Girona, I don't know if you could reasonably throw them in against, say, a Premier League team in a Carabao Cup draw and expect them to thrive. I feel like that's a big, big ask. Certainly, I'm happy to deprioritise the Cup and I think we should definitely use it to give opportunities to some of these young players.

1:22:37But I also think that it's inevitably going to always be balanced by, you know, first team senior players, pardon me, who haven't had an opportunity.

1:22:48Andrew Mangan: I mean, look at that list of midfield options we've just reeled off. We've got to give these guys a game too. Yeah, it serves a purpose in that sense, doesn't it? In keeping players who haven't played a great deal. Do you think maybe some, you know, in the mists of time that we've got a bit, like the idea that Wenger played all the kids all the time in the Carling Cup is not necessarily reflective of the kinds of teams that he picked, you know? Yeah. Because I think that, you know, that final against Chelsea, if you remember, where he said he wanted to play the young guys to let them, was that an FA Cup game or was it the Carling Cup final?

1:23:25I can't remember.

1:23:25Andrew Mangan: It was Carling Cup final. And he wanted them to believe that they could win. So he didn't play Andre Arshavin, who was probably up to his fucking tits in Mr. Kipling at that point anyway. Oh, yeah, I think we're conflating two games because there was the League Cup final of 2000. There was an FA Cup semi-final. Six or seven, but yeah, then there was an FA Cup semi-final, I think against Chelsea at Wembley. Right. Where he didn't play Arshavin, yeah. Well, I mean, here's a team from the Carling Cup 2007 seven arsenal two newcastle nil the team is fabianski senderos traore ebue justin hoyt danielson lasana diara alex song eduardo theo walcott nicholas bentner on the bench you had gavin hoyt abu di abi henry landsbury and fran marida so there was you know that is not too far off a kind of first team team really uh there's a few players missing obviously um well i think if you looked at the ages of those players i think because they went on to have careers it probably feels like that now but yeah a lot of those guys would have been about 18 at that point in time i mean the main thing is like i that's what i mean though like these are players that we had sought out and acquired and bought like people like senderos traore alex song you know carlos vela nicholas bentner these are players that we specifically targeted and put on a pathway from our academy to our first team and i don't think we necessarily have those players in the club anymore where where we've brought them in thinking these guys are going to be first team players for us yeah i don't you know we obviously have your downman's or your lewis skelly's or an aries but we don't have a reserve team well full stop anymore but we don't have a reserve team packed with players that are on that trajectory to to replace people in our current squad um we're trying to change that and we're trying to bring in young players um to to to do that in future you know in a couple years time might we see edwin or holger quintero in a carabao cup team very possibly but there'll be players that we've spent an awful lot of money on if we'd bought jeremy monger would we see him in the carabao cup yeah but i think just throwing in academy kids just because they're kids i think that would be very unlikely i don't see michael set of doing that yeah no me neither really but hopefully the draw does provide an opportunity for some of those younger players to get a chance you know yeah and listen there are guys in there we really want to see more of i'm not dismissing them entirely you know uh marley salmon or andre harriman and noose you know these these are players of serious potential but i just think in the early 2000s period the whole club squad building strategy was kind of built around acquiring in players at 15, 16 years of age who could be Arsenal first team players.

1:26:36Andrew Mangan: And the Carabao Cup was sort of the vehicle to bring that plan to fruition. And we're just a very, very different club now. We're a very different squad structure and level of talent in the academy. Fair, fair. Absolutely.

1:26:56Andrew Mangan: What about this? We've spoken a lot about midfield. There are a couple of associated questions. Naveen on Blue Sky said, what do you see Zubimendi's role this season as? Is he ahead of Marzou Eskele? Would you consider selling him if we need to balance the books, him being Zubimendi? It's an interesting one because he's a player Mikel Arteta pursued, right? Waited for. With some vigour. yes waited for and you know saw if advances from Liverpool and Real Madrid reportedly to to bring him in I mean I think if we can get first half of the season Zubimendi consistently across the entire season then he's not a player I would sell he's not and I do wonder if maybe taking some of the burden off him you know as we said having that variety having those options might be a way of doing that because i think sort of boiled down to a physical thing for him didn't it it felt fatigue adjacent certainly because he played a lot of minutes and then sort of ran out of run out of steam but in terms of you know what he delivered in the first half of the season i thought he was very impressive so if we can get more of that out of him i don't know but yeah maybe he is the guy you know maybe it's, as I said, you get those partnerships in midfield and it's going to be Rice and Zubimendi.

1:28:24It's going to be Bruno and Lewis Skelly or Bruno and Eze, you know, and then Odegaard and Eze or Odegaard and who am I forgetting? Too many names. I think he is. Yeah. I think he is capable of playing that deep lying midfield role, you know. so I guess that would be the role I see for him. I don't see him in the sort of Bruno Lewis Kelly position.

1:28:59Andrew Mangan: Yeah. I guess if you see Bruno a bit more advanced, then does Zubamendi kind of become Rice's alternate in this? Yeah, I think so. I think that's what I see, but, you know, again, it's sort of not entirely clear, you know, which again, might be by design. So, yeah. Do you think there's a possibility? It's a big season for him, I think. Yeah. Really big. Like I could foresee a situation where if he doesn't kind of rediscover his best form and regular football, you know, in 12 months, he feels like a player you could be talking about going back to Spain. You know, and listen, who knows? He may, he may do exactly that and, you know, recapture that form he showed when he first arrived.

1:29:49Andrew Mangan: But right now, the arrival of Bruno is not a, is not a huge statement of Arteta's kind of faith and belief in the Zubimendi-Rice axis, I would say. Yeah. Okay, what about this one? This is quite mysterious. Okay. Mr. Basquietia on the Discord says, Hi, gents. Do you have any information about Albert Steubenberg? He's not been pictured with the team since preseason started, and he was also not on the bench for the Girona match. Hmm. That is ringing a bell as something someone has mentioned to me, and I can't for the life of me place it now. But that's interesting. I mean, sorry, I don't know. I'll make that my priority as soon as I get off the phone.

1:30:48Andrew Mangan: Yeah. But, yeah. Off the phone? Off the call? Off this podcast? Off this particular podcast. Yeah, the last picture I can find of him is on the bus with the boys celebrating. I hadn't noticed his absence, but then I wasn't paying like really close attention to the buildup or anything like that. He does tend to do the warmup, doesn't he? He's involved in the warmup. Yeah. In the pregame bits. So I guess we keep an eye out on Wednesday. We'll be sitting in Lansdowne Road going, is that Albert? That's not, could that be Albert over there? We'll keep an eye out on Wednesday. I need to call him on his AirPods.

1:31:38Yeah, not sure. Maybe he's just lost one of his AirPods and is just desperately trying to find it.

1:31:44Andrew Mangan: Maybe we've sent him to Madrid to bring back Vinicius. That's who we've decided is best placed. But, you know, interesting dynamic there with sort of Gabriel Ence coming in 12 months ago and being so close to Mikel. I think that must've been a, yeah, it must've been a change. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And, and, you know, a change that brought great success. So no complaints there, certainly, but how Albert feels about that. I think he, I mean, I do think he will go eventually. Like I do think he's a guy who I've heard does hard, some ambitions to be a coach in his own right one day. So he has been before.

1:32:31Andrew Mangan: He has been a number one. And I think would like to give that another go. But I haven't heard anything specifically about him being out of the door. It is an interesting one because he is the guy typically, or has been the guy over the last number of years, that whenever Mikel Arteta's, you know, needed counsel on the sidelines during a game, it's been Albert Steubenberg. And last year, certainly Gabriel Ainza was more present to one or two or some of those discussions. Just curious, you know, because you sort of get the idea that Albert would impart some kind of tactical information or suggestion to Mikel Arteta.

1:33:11Maybe we could do this. Maybe we could get that player on. Maybe we could, you know, rejig. And when I think of Ainza, it's just more like he's going, kill them. I mean

1:33:24Andrew Mangan: you joke but I think there probably is something to that I think Albert is a very sort of clear minded rational tactical thinker and I think without wishing to lean in stereotypes Gabriel Enzi is maybe a bit more of an emotional character I imagine them as sort of like the good angel and the bad angel on Nicolaita's shoulders Yeah, I know what you mean. You know, Albert's like, maybe we try, you know, two eight slash tens. Yeah. And Gabriel Aense is like, no, Mikel, we do only set pieces. Sign Bruno Guimariere. You know what I mean? And kill them. Then kill them. Have them all killed. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:34:09Andrew Mangan: And I think, you know, Mikel seems to be listening more to Gabriel Aense at this point in time. Arsenal set red card record in 2026-27 season. Yeah, I ain't said quietly fuming at Arsenal's good disciplinary record last year. How dare you go through a season without a red card? What are you thinking? You know what you need to do? Kill them.

1:34:34I mean, I think we've covered pretty much everything, to be honest. There were some Ethan Ranieri questions, but I mean, we get them every week, don't we? We've also talked about that situation quite a bit over the last couple of weeks. And you wrote about it, I think, this morning. I did write about it on the blog today. So if people want some Ethan Wenary thoughts, they can do that or go get them. It's a multimedia offering, guys. This is it. This is it. I know this is a perfect callback to something that we discussed earlier in the podcast, but fuck me if I can't remember what it is. So we're just going to have to leave it there, I think.

1:35:08So listen, we'll be around Dublin tomorrow and Wednesday, of course. I'm not 100 % sure what's going to happen pre-game. I retweeted or did a thing on Blue Sky. Somebody, oh gosh, I've got to give him a shout out for this.

1:35:26Andrew Mangan: I also shared this, I think. He put together a sort of, not quite a pub crawl, but certainly a list of pubs that you might want to go to if you're in Dublin at the weekend. Why can't I find this? I thought it was in my, I thought I retweeted it or re-blue-skied it or whatever it is. Can you find it? Do you have it there? No, maybe it's disappeared. It looks to have, oh, there it is. It's from Dara. Oh, yeah, Dara, yeah. Darador.bsky.social. There's a list of pubs where you can go from city centre, you know, avoid Temple Bar as much as possible. If you're coming over to Dublin, they will. The price of a pint there is significantly higher than everywhere else.

1:36:12If you want to go for late drinks, you can certainly do that after the game. But he's put up a list of pubs along the way, on the way to the Aviva Stadium or Lansdowne Road, as it should be called. There's pubs around sort of Balls Bridge, Baggett Street area. I think the last time Arsenal played in Dublin, we congregated in a place called Toners, which is on Baggett Street. it's a sort of traditional old pub but they've got a big big back garden big outside area so that might be a place to go but obviously we'll see see some of you at the event on Tuesday night if you see us around town please do say hello see you the day of the game Wednesday as well for some pints before the game hopefully some pints after the game what time is it the game it's like half seven is that right I've got absolutely no idea I think it's half seven yeah

1:37:07Andrew Mangan: and fingers crossed Arsenal have got their streaming figured out by then well I don't care I'm going to be at the game we don't care but for everyone outside for everybody else I hope that yes it does work at the very least I'll get the YouTube on as a backup from the start if the if the pay-per-view doesn't work alright well listen hopefully we see lots of you around Dublin as ever thank you so much as always for being here for downloading subscribing and all the rest for now though take it easy folks and we will catch you on the next one bye-bye

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