Arsecast Extra Episode 719 - 02.11.2026

0:12James McNicholas: Hello and welcome to another Arsecast Extra as always with James from Gunnerblog. James, a very goodly morning to you. Goodly morning, Andrew. It's one of the really goodly ones. Yes, yes, it really is. 14 years since we last won at Anfield. and I think it's fair to say that was overdue yesterday.

0:34Andrew Allen: Well, yeah, it's so long ago. Am I right in saying Santi Cazorla scored that day? Lucas Podolsky definitely did. Santi played for sure in midfield with Mikel Arteta and Abu Diyabi. And as if to underline how long ago that was, Santi's son came on this week for Real Oviedo to make his pro debut. So there you go.

0:56James McNicholas: I know, I saw that. I saw that. That sort of thing just makes you feel instantly old, doesn't it? Well, I remember him on the pitch at the Emirates. Oh, God. End of one of the final days. I remember that as well.

1:11Andrew Allen: Yeah. One of the laps of, well, in that era, possibly not appreciation. I don't know. But a lap of indignity. And Santi's son was out there on the pitch showcasing. We let him slip through our fingers, Andrew. He was right there. It's Gnabry all over again.

1:28James McNicholas: I do remember that. Was that not the one where he sort of dribbled with the ball closer and closer and closer to the goal and everyone was like, whoa? Yeah.

1:37Andrew Allen: And he got there in the end. Wow. Hopefully the Real Oviedo fans are also doing that every time he gets the ball.

1:43James McNicholas: Well, you know, if he makes progress towards the goal, I'm sure that's exactly what's happening. Yeah, what a day that was, Santi Cazorla. I think it was the summer he signed, wasn't it? It was Cazorla, Podolsky, Giroud all started that day. Vito Manone in goal for Arsenal on that fateful day at Anfield in 2012. Yesterday, though, it was... Mikel Arteta said an opportunity. I don't know how you felt about this. Obviously, the Fleetwood game in midweek was a little ignominious, a bit embarrassing, I think is the word that you used when you did your post-match video. It was a bit embarrassing for Arsenal to go out of the EFL Cup to a team lying 18th in League Two or whatever it is.

2:29James McNicholas: I do think as fans, it was easier for us to compartmentalize the performance, the defeat, whatever way you want to put it, because of how we perceive that competition and how it might be viewed in some ways as an impediment to greater success later in the season, right? So you get to February, March, and you've got a two-legged semifinal against Chelsea or Newcastle or some bunch of wankers like that. And it takes a lot out of you. And then you get to a Champions League final, everyone's too tired. And the two things may not be completely related, but there is that sort of perception anyway. So we're out of that competition.

3:09James McNicholas: We don't have to deal with that this season. And, you know, we can deal with it maybe a little bit better. I think for Mikel Arteta, though, knowing him as manager of Arsenal, not knowing him personally, obviously, but knowing the kind of man he is, it will really have bothered him and stung him and vexed him to go out of the EFL Cup to be the victim of a giant killing. So when he talked about this game and talked about it as an opportunity, there was something, you know, in his pregame demeanor that I have to say, instilled in me a bit of confidence going into this one.

3:47Andrew Allen: Yeah, it's interesting because Flea Wood, it was a bit embarrassing on the night and the morning after. but very quickly the conversation really became about Max Dowman and his sending off. You didn't see too many Arsenal fans. I think there were more gripes over the red card than there were over going out of the competition, to be honest with you. And by the time Anfield rolled around or Friday rolled around and Mikel's pre-match press conference, I'd sort of forgotten about Fleetwood, to be quite honest. But he clearly hadn't. He clearly hadn't. And even after the game last night, his post-match press conference, The amount of time he dedicated to speaking about Fleetwood and the pain and the sadness that he felt after that defeat and needing to pick things up and put things right.

4:33Andrew Allen: Clearly, it was something that he had harnessed and used and something that he felt he had to avenge. And what a way to do it. I mean, just a historic result. You know, when you look at the context, when you look at how infrequently we've won at Anfield, how long it's taken for us to do it again. Yeah, one of the results really in a one-off game of Mikel Arteta's managerial career today.

5:00James McNicholas: Yeah, it was a really, really good game of football, this as well. You know, I think in the cold light of day, there are, you know, people will criticize Arsenal for being too defensive or whatever it might be. But I think this was just a really good game of football. Two teams who, you know, probed at each other, who tested each other in ways that were reflective of the context of the game, right? That we scored this early goal, and we'll come to that in a sec. But I just thought this was a really good game of football. And Arsenal have very, very specific strengths in certain areas of the pitch and maybe not quite so strong in others.

5:40James McNicholas: And leaning into those strengths and being able to deal with quite a lot of what Liverpool threw at us in two different contexts, I think. sort of pre-halftime and post-halftime, I think, is a fascinating element of how this game played out yesterday and how good we are defensively. But we'll get to that. We'll come to that. Let's talk about team selection. A bit of a surprise in that Christos Solis, having spent more or less a month on the sidelines with a hamstring injury that he picked up during the interlal, was back in. And initially, it seemed like, ooh, that's a bit maybe harsh on Eberachie Eza.

6:19James McNicholas: But post-game, Mikel Arteta said it was something of a miracle or it was a credit to Eze and also the medical staff that he was even on the bench. So he was obviously dealing with a little issue there. And they decided that, well, I don't know if cautious is the right way of putting it when you bring a guy back in who hasn't played for a month. But they were certainly cautious with Eze.

6:41Andrew Allen: I think they felt that Eze was the greater risk, which tells you, you know, he must have had a problem of some significance. because to throw Solis back in like that in a game of this intensity and importance is far from ideal. That said, I thought he did incredibly well. I mean, he looked, you know, I think about as sharp as it's possible for someone to look after a month on the sidelines with a hamstring injury. And I think he deserves massive credit for the way he embraced that challenge. Other than that, though, the rest of the team, the rest of the doubts all made it. You know, Nonny and Deck and Calafiore, you know, everyone that we were sort of wondering about was fit and available to start.

7:32Andrew Allen: So it was a strong line-up, I think, going into this one.

7:37James McNicholas: A strong line-up and a strong start, I think, from Arsenal. We imposed ourselves on the game very quickly. it can happen, you know, at Anfield that you, I think they use the phrase, get caught in the washing machine, and maybe that's more applicable to what happened later on. But certainly, we've experienced games at Anfield in the past where you think, okay, start strong, keep the crowd a little bit quiet. And then all of a sudden, Liverpool are just swarming forward at every opportunity. And I think it was a really good start from Arsenal. There was an incident which hasn't got a lot of mileage this morning because obviously there are probably other incidents that are a little more of a talking point.

8:17James McNicholas: But a foul from Trey Neone, who was a surprise starter in the Liverpool midfield, studs down the back of Martin Odegaard's Achilles. Now, I think he's quite lucky to escape without any sanction there. We saw on Saturday evening, evening Jean-Philippe Mateta for Crystal Palace gets sent off at Tottenham for a foul not dissimilar from this one now I do think this was mistimed more than malicious from the Liverpool midfielder nevertheless it's a bit of a nasty one on Odegaard quite early on in the game and maybe the fact it was that early in the game bought him a little bit of leeway from the the referees or the the

9:04Andrew Allen: our officials yeah maybe and maybe his inexperience you know he's a a teenager starting in a huge game and i don't hate that from referees when they show a bit of sort of consciousness or awareness of the context and unlike uh tuesday well i was going to say maybe we would like to see a bit more of that on tuesday you know i don't mind a referee taking into sort of account the human factors here but I agree he was pretty lucky to escape without booking and was it eight minutes later he steamed into another one on Kai Havertz so you know he's a young player impetuous but you know he was quite lucky I think to to avoid any sanction in those early exchanges

9:51James McNicholas: yeah for sure like had he been booked for that one would he have gone in for that tackle on Havertz I'm not sure I mean it was one of those where he didn't really do a great deal he just sort of left his legs there rather than kicked out, you know, but you couldn't help but think, if he got that yellow and then he does that, he'd be very much on a tightrope. But it was a good start from Arsenal. It was a dominant start from Arsenal. I think, you know, between kickoff and the time that we scored the goal, we had something like 65 % possession. We were pressing well. Odegaard was leading the press very well.

10:24James McNicholas: He's so effective at doing that. And ultimately, that's kind of where the goal came from. It's a coordinated press. I think the contribution of Christos Solis doesn't really get mentioned here, but he closes down Alisson very quickly, doesn't he? He recognizes what's about to play out, and he closes him down very quickly. I think he gets a very slight touch on the ball. From there, Odegaard recovers it, goes to Bruno, Bruno to Nani Matueke. Declan Rice then rampaging on the overlap. They call him the horse, don't they? And this was very much a gallop on the overlap. And our lovely horse delivered to the back post and there was Kai Havertz to tap in for 1-0.

11:10Andrew Allen: Yeah, just like Lukasz Podolski, a left-footed German, opening the scoring back in 2012. And I made a note shortly before this goal here about the attentiveness of Arsenal at every restart. Every time the ball was dead or out of play, there was such an intensity and a zeal about the way Arsenal reorganised, went after it, led the press. It was really, really impressive. And I think it looked to me like something they must have spoken about almost in the minutes before they went out the tunnel. You know, it seemed to be so fresh in their minds and their approach. It was like the words of Mikel Arteta or maybe Martin Odegaard, who knows, in the huddle was sort of ringing in their ears.

11:59Andrew Allen: And they reap the benefits with this goal. I think another interesting element here is Declan Rice on that right-hand side, on the overlap. You know, for so long we've seen him as the kind of left eight in the midfield. But I think he's got quite a nice little chemistry with Nani Maduweke. I think they combine pretty well. I know they're great friends off the pitch too. And it was a sort of classic rampaging, overlapping right-back run. This is what Mick Arteta must be envisaging when he puts Declan Rice in at right-back. This is what he's looking for. Well, yeah. And what a ball. I mean, I think it's Bruno's in the box and just evades him, but Kai Havertz's movement is good at the back post.

12:42Andrew Allen: And yeah, I think he's got all his misses out of his system against Fleetwood, thankfully. Okay.

12:49James McNicholas: Well, he didn't miss this one. And I think it is just a really nice goal. And it is about, as you say, the attentiveness, the pressure, being alert, not being caught on your heels, not allowing the opposition to do anything easily. And that was evident in the press. And then the way we worked it is fantastic. And listen, I think it's not unreasonable to say that Arsenal could potentially have had another goal before Liverpool changed the momentum of the game in their favour. There was a Kai Havertz stretch. It was a Bruno Gimeraj shot, which deflected off Van Dijk. Should have gone out for a corner.

13:27James McNicholas: The referee didn't see the deflection, but Havertz on the stretch nearly got there. And then there was another really good pass to the back post. I think it was from Solis to Matueke and it sort of hit timber before it could make its way to Kai Havertz. So Arsenal were causing Liverpool problems until the point where the game without Granit Xhaka winding up the Liverpool crowd just seemed to change on a sixpence.

13:54Andrew Allen: Yeah, I think Liverpool were a little bit nervy in that opening 20 minutes or so. And you saw that in some of their ball play at the back. and we really seized the initiative. You're never home and dry at Anfield, I think it's fair to say. And we found that out to our cost in the past, but we could have extended our lead. You mentioned the best chance we had, the close moments. But the momentum really shifted in the second half of the first half, and it just became wave after wave of Liverpool pressure. and the pattern of the game became very set and established. And it went from us being this kind of quite aggressive attacking force.

14:41Andrew Allen: You know, we actually dominated possession in that first 15 minutes or so to us kind of collapsing into our defensive shape. For better and worse, it meant that Liverpool could keep coming. But equally, for the most part, we defended our penalty area very, very well.

14:57James McNicholas: Yeah, but it's one of those scenarios where the momentum changes and you're going, ooh, we're under a bit of pressure here. And then you're thinking, ooh, we could really do at the halftime whistle. But there were certainly moments for Liverpool in that period of the game. There was a cross, I think, that Konza and Raya just sort of came together to get there before Alexander Izek. And then there was the big moment, I suppose, which is the cross from Barcola. For all the world, it looks like Isaac is going to have a header, you know, point blank range, whether he scores it or not, we'll never know.

15:35James McNicholas: But he is prevented from getting to the ball by a pull on the shirt from Jurian Timber. And at first I looked at it and thought, nah, I don't think there's anything there really. They'll do the thing where they say it's not sustained holding. But when you saw the replays, when I saw the replays, I think that's a penalty because I would be absolutely furious if that happened up the other end and we didn't get the decision. Because even if the pull is not like super, super strong and super sustained, it does exactly what it's supposed to do, which is to prevent Isaac from getting the ball. It's a foul.

16:16James McNicholas: It's a penalty. and we got lucky, I think.

16:20Andrew Allen: I can't disagree with any of that. Watching it back on a replay, I was kind of amazed that it was allowed to go on and not call back. I think Isaac suffers, to be honest with you, from the fact that he's tried to play the ball. I think if he'd gone down on feeling the contact or thrown himself backwards, he probably gets himself a penalty. But as Ian Wright said in the post-game coverage, You know, should he need to? You know, I'm delighted, of course, that it was overlooked, but I thought that was a lucky escape for sure.

16:56James McNicholas: Yeah, I mean, I think the conversation, because we have these scenarios within the game and we'll reflect on those with Alexis McAllister a bit later on, a player who did throw himself to the ground under a little contact. And then the other conversation is, well, Alexander Izak should throw himself to the ground there to get a penalty or make it more obvious that he's been fouled. I mean, the first thing he does is turn around to Timber and say something to Timber like, what the fuck, dude? You know, you grab my shirt there and Timber's like, what are you going to do? and runs off. So he knew he'd been fouled.

17:29But I do think the onus has to be on the officials

17:33James McNicholas: in that instance, right? You can't, on the one hand, say, we don't want players throwing themselves around and blah, blah, blah, and then advocate for a player to do exactly that. Because I think it sort of gives a free pass to the officials. And I can understand maybe the referee looking at that in real time and thinking, there's not enough. there's maybe not enough because there was a one a bit later on right with solace and and gackpo where i think the referee gets it right in my opinion that that solace does have his hands on gackpo but he's not pulling him back he's just sort of got his hands on him maybe a little clumsy maybe a little risky but i don't think it's a penalty but i can understand why in that instance the referee in a split second doesn't really see the extent of the foul but i do not understand why VAR.

18:23James McNicholas: And again, I'm really happy that they didn't, obviously, but I don't understand how VAR can look at that and can see the impact of Timber's tug, regardless of how light it is. It's sort of like those situations, you know, when a player is running into the box at full speed and they get like a tiny push from the defender and they stumble, they go over because it throws them off balance, right? And you hear all the time, well, it's only a tiny push, but that's all you need when you're running at top speed. It doesn't take much to disturb you or to throw you off balance. And in this instance, I think the VAR has to look at that and say, well, that's what prevented Izak having a free header from six yards out.

19:07James McNicholas: That's a penalty. So, you know, whatever people think about the way Izak reacted or didn't react, the bigger issue is the fact that Var looked at that and thought that's not a penalty, which I think is completely wrong. And I'm saying this, obviously, as an Arsenal fan who's delighted that they got it wrong. But, you know, we know having been there in the past and it'll happen again when you're on the wrong end of one of those decisions. It's really, really hard to take.

19:34Andrew Allen: Yeah, I can understand that. And Timber, he walked a tightrope at times in the first half. There was another instance where he had a hold of McAllister's shirt and I think probably just released it in time to avoid the sustained holding accusation. But, I mean, it's a fine, fine line that. And I definitely think when you go to Anfield, if you want to win there, you know, because this second half of the first half was difficult. And as you say, there were moments where we were kind of hanging on or certainly hanging on for the whistle, for a reset, for a chance to kind of change the momentum and the dynamics of the game.

20:16Andrew Allen: There will be some criticism of that. You know, what could we have done differently? How could we have prevented it? My mindset is a bit more to think, I think if you go away to Liverpool, the likelihood, the extreme likelihood is there's going to be a spell in a game like that. Agree. And I think you have to weather that. and you may also need a little bit of luck and I think we got a bit of luck potentially on that penalty decision but I don't really see many teams go to Liverpool and win without those elements there. Agree, agree, yeah.

20:51James McNicholas: You will find yourselves under pressure and there are always things when you look at a game they think, could we have done a little bit better there? Could we have coped with the pressure Liverpool were putting on us? But also you have to ride your luck. There's moments in every big season, every season where you can look back and say, well, that was one we got away with. You know, I referenced a couple in the blog today. Rude Van Nistelrooy missing the penalty at Old Trafford in the season that we went unbeaten. Mateus Fernandes missing that chance. I know it's a David Ryer save, but it's a miss by Mateus Fernandes in that game against West Ham.

21:27James McNicholas: And that's leaving aside all the after review, et cetera, et cetera, right? So you do have those moments in a season. And I think potentially we had that in the last 10, 15 minutes of this half because Florian Wurtz hit the bar with a free kick, which I don't think was a free kick. I think that was quite a generous decision to Liverpool. Nevertheless, they hit the bar. They didn't get the penalty that they should have got. And then right before the break, Alexis McAllister heads over the bar when he absolutely should be scoring. That's a huge chance for Liverpool. I think I've looked at it back a couple of times.

22:03James McNicholas: I don't know if you have to try and figure out exactly why McAllister had all that room. It's a sort of, I can't make my mind up if it's Havertz or Bruno Gimaraes, who should be aware or more aware of Alexis McAllister. But when that ball comes in and he's eight, ten yards out, he heads over. That was a let off.

22:22Andrew Allen: It was because it was a great cross from Kirkes and McAllister's actually decent in the air. Surprisingly good. so yeah that was a really good opportunity and I'll be honest that would have been fitting reward really for Liverpool I think they probably deserved to be level at that point in the game given the pressure they'd exerted and the momentum they'd built but we were able to withstand it to weather it and I think there was a moment in stoppage time at the end of the first half where Arsenal really sort of took their time over a throw-in I think it was on Jurian Timber's side and they did the old like, are you taking it?

22:59Andrew Allen: Am I taking it? And I thought, finally, like, we can have a breather. That was exactly what we'd needed for like 20 minutes and just hadn't been able to get a foothold in the game. And yeah, we made it to halftime, which I think was incredibly important. If Liverpool had got an equaliser just before the break, obviously it would have really, really breathed some interesting life into that second half. So it was vital to get to the whistle ahead, I think.

23:27James McNicholas: Yeah, I agree. And listen, I think what's really interesting about this game is that we were under pressure in that last part of the first half. We definitely were. It was kind of backs to the wall defending and we got let off the hook. In the second half, Liverpool came out and enjoyed more or less the same possession, the same domination or territorial domination anyway, for the first part of that second half. but it felt completely different in the sense that Arsenal either were making life more difficult for Liverpool, making it more difficult for Liverpool to create chances, to get crosses in.

24:10James McNicholas: I don't know if Liverpool went off the boil, but we felt a lot more comfortable dealing with the Liverpool possession. And I guess there could have been a halftime discussion or conversation about how we do that. If there was a little tactical tweak, I'm not 100 % sure. But this was a moment where I think this team's true strength came to the fore. And that is not just the organization or the discipline. It is the sheer relish with which so many of the players in this team have when it comes to defending. And that isn't just sort of being camped on the back of your own or on your own 18-yard line.

24:58James McNicholas: It is this collective desire to snuff out anything that the opposition have. And that works from back to front. Like Havertz got the goal, but I saw him at left back. I saw him at center half in this game. And your mileage may vary on whether or not you want to see your center forward in those positions. But I think it's illustrative of the way that this team will defend and work for each other.

25:24Andrew Allen: Yeah, he made some good clearances from set pieces and corners, so effective in both boxes. I mean, maybe it's summed up by that first half moment where Bruno Guimaraes slides in to deny Bradley Barker as he's driving into the penalty area and leaps to his feet and celebrates in front of the away fans like he's just scored the winning goal. I mean, that was kind of extraordinary. And I think that does show the relish this team has for those moments, for protecting their goal. Mick Arteta said afterwards, we knew we were going to have to navigate through periods that we were going to have to suffer because they are extremely good at doing that, creating those vertical attacks, those chaos moments from almost nothing.

26:09Andrew Allen: You really need to enjoy that, he said. If you don't, there will be a moment where you switch off and they will punish you. and that's clearly a message that he has given to the team that they have to relish, enjoy, delight in denying the opposition and you could see that on the pitch yesterday.

26:31James McNicholas: Yeah, I mean, I picked out a little clip from Match of the Day. This is Michael Richards talking to Declan Rice about Arsenal's defending. How much do you work on that in training? Because the lines between the defence and the midfield, at times it's just perfect. It's like art.

26:48Andrew Allen: Yeah, it's been drilled into us really well. I think since Gabby Hines has come in, he's added that energy. You know, he's a crazy guy, but he demands so much every day. And we've got defenders who want to defend. I think Big Gabriel, I think it's just incredible. I've never seen anything like it. The way he treats training, it's like a match. And then when he plays the match, there's no coincidence he does what he does. And as recently, since he's come in, it's just been ridiculous. So, yeah, look, we've got really good strength at the back. And it's one of our strengths for sure.

27:15James McNicholas: I mean, it really is a huge strength of this Arsenal team to be able to defend and to be able to keep opposition at arm's length. But I don't think that's all that we did in this game as well, you know, because there were moments up the other end. There was a period in the second half where I think, you know, again, we could have got another goal where there were moments perhaps where we didn't quite make the right decisions. There was one when Christos Solis went through and he squared it for Martin Odegaard. This is not the first time I've seen this from Solis. And I don't mean this to be critical of him in any way, because I think what it is, is a new player arriving from, with all due respect, a smaller club to the Premier League champions.

28:00James McNicholas: And I think he wants to be selfless. but I also you know watched the videos and watched the goals that he scored for Club Rouge and the the variety of goals that he scored for Club Rouge and there've been a couple of moments this season where I've really wanted him to pull the trigger in that instance I understand kind of why he tried to square it for Odegaard Liverpool defended it went out for a corner but but it's on his left foot I know it's not his strong foot but he can finish with his left foot. I would have liked to see him have a pop from there actually.

28:34Andrew Allen: Yeah. And he showed what he could do five minutes later when he probably forced the save of the game from Alisson with that kind of cue ball shot from the edge of the box shortly afterwards. I think that's maybe natural when a player comes into a club and, you know, they're a little bit deferential to those around them. And he's still finding his way back to fitness as well. So maybe some of his sharpness and decision making isn't quite where it might be but I know what you mean he you know he has the capacity to drive at goal directly to shoot off either foot and I think hopefully he'll embrace that more in the coming weeks

29:12James McNicholas: The technique on that shot from I think it was Madueke ball from the right hand side it ran across the area the technique to hit that with the power and the precision that he did is fantastic and that's why you know as you say You see him do that, and I know it's his different foot, but I think he can execute in those positions. It's a really, really good save from Alisson that, isn't it? Really fantastic save, yeah.

29:37Andrew Allen: Plunges low to his left and turns it around the post. Yeah. But yeah, but Liverpool were getting frustrated. You know, that was my experience in the ground. The sort of howls of frustration when an attack broke down. They weren't able to maintain pressure in the same way they did in the first half. We weren't seeing those clear-cut opportunities like the one for McAllister. I mean, the extraordinary statistic coming out of the game was that Opta recorded zero shots on target for Liverpool for the first time in their records. 442 games stretching back to 2003. It's the first time that that's ever happened.

30:19James McNicholas: Which is amazing, to be honest. That speaks volumes to the way that Arsenal defended. I also think Liverpool lost their way a bit in the second half of the second half. They threw the kitchen sink at things, didn't they, from the bench. You know, they put on Ngamoua. Sobislai. Yeah, Sobislai. Ngamoua came on. They put on those young attackers. They have Munoz, who's been good so far this season for Liverpool. Koumas, who's a striker. So they really tried to go for it. And I think, you know, if you say howls of frustration you were there, the fact that Arsenal were frustrating them made them a bit desperate.

31:04James McNicholas: And I think that plays into what happened with Alexis McAllister, right? Where he left a little bit on Martin Odegaard. Arsenal took exception to it. I think it's a risable, pathetic piece of cheating from Alexis McAllister pretending that Nani Matueke had headbutted him. In the interest of balance, you might say, oh, there was a moment in the first half where Gabriel also went down holding his face, which, you know. But I'm not that interested in balance this morning. So fuck that. I've been balanced enough about the Liverpool penalty, so I've only got so much I can dish out. This was absolutely pathetic from McAllister.

31:49James McNicholas: It was cheating of the highest order, and I think it was baked in desperation because Liverpool knew that they were going to have to really find something special to break down an Arsenal defence that was resolute, that was determined, that was dogged. They were throwing themselves in front of things. I mean, that incident with Odegaard, he's on the edge of our box making tackles, you know, and that really does speak to how committed the team were to keeping Liverpool at bay.

32:23Andrew Allen: Yeah. I mean, Odegaard's energy levels were extraordinary. And on the ball, off the ball, I thought we had a very, very good afternoon. Yeah, McAllister, I mean, it was, we used the word embarrassing about Arsenal losing to Fleetwood. I think this was really, truly embarrassing for McAllister. And I was pleased to see even Jamie Carragher using the same language in the studio afterwards. I'd like to think all Liverpool fans are a bit embarrassed by that. I think I would be if my own player reacted in that way and clearly sought to get a player sent off in that fashion. And we do have one or two who will indulge in that kind of thing.

33:04Andrew Allen: Of course. but yeah I mean listen it was it was utterly ridiculous and I was delighted to see it ignored I think Nonny had been booked not that long before that so I wonder if they were kind of looking you know thinking oh there might be some vulnerability here well yeah that's that's

33:23James McNicholas: it I mean it's hard not to be a little bit worried though at the same time I think the replay showed that there was nothing in it I you know I like Jury and Timber going over and sticking up for as captain. I like Nani Matawake going over and sticking. I mean, you can't you know, I've seen some people say you can't get involved in stuff like that. Don't give McAllister the opportunity to do that. Don't give the referee the opportunity to make a decision. Right? I get it. But you can't separate that defensive commitment that we're talking about from moments like that either. That you're going to stand up for your teammate.

33:59James McNicholas: You're going to stand up for your captain. You're going to stand up for the guy who got a slap. you don't go to war with guys if you're not prepared to go fucking head-to-head with the opposition in incidents like that. And I know they're minor and potentially it could have turned out a different way. But if you want your players to be on that pitch sticking up for each other, then you've got to be prepared to get involved in little heated moments like that. And as long as you kind of keep your cool, which Matuweke did, by the way, he didn't make contact at all. This was just cheating from McAllister.

34:32James McNicholas: I think it's absolutely fine. I think it's really, really important as well because I can remember, and you can too, Arsenal teams where that instant reaction to somebody picking on one of ours was not there. where the opposition were allowed to kick or smash or beat up on our players, and we were a bit too soft. We weren't there to stand up for each other, and I think this is a team that will absolutely stand up for each other in terms of how they play and how they defend, but also when something like this happens, it's like, fuck you, we're not taking that. And I love it, I have to say. And I have to say, as somebody who is a defender, every time I played football, I just get so much enjoyment out of performances like this because they're so impressive, defensively impressive.

35:28James McNicholas: There's more than one way to play great football. And look, I want us to score more goals. I think there's a conversation to be had around that. But if in circumstances like this, you have to lean in and just be brilliant at what you do, fucking do it. Because there is nobody better than us at this moment in time.

35:47Andrew Allen: No, quite right. And I love players getting involved and supporting each other like that. Even when Max was sent off in midweek, I liked how swiftly Ben White was across and looking to protect him. And I think the Coltet would want to see his players doing that, you know, standing up for each other, as long as they don't jeopardise their own presence on the pitch. But Nonny didn't do that. He kept his cool. And yeah, just, you know, a desperate attempt from Liverpool. And that's what they were forced to do by our proficiency at the back. And, you know, we showed who we are, I think, with our defensive performance.

36:28Andrew Allen: And, you know, there's been lots of praise for it since. And I think that's justified. I think it was an incredible demonstration of kind of the core values of this team, the organisation, physicality, the commitment and desire. You know, something I spotted during the game was how often the Arsenal players were kind of on each other's back almost, like asking for more, you know, that they are holding each other to such high standards, particularly in their own defensive third. They're all talking to each other. They're all giving orders. They're all communicating. And I think that just shows how much they want it.

37:07James McNicholas: For sure. And there are always these discussions about leadership in football, right? About how, you know, the archetypal captain, those kinds of things. But there is leadership in that as well, where everybody feels, I don't want to say emboldened, but everyone feels like they're able to talk to each other in order to get the best out of each other, to get the best result for the team. And you could see, you know, when McAllister had that chance, Calafiori went absolutely mental that he was allowed all that space. There was another one, I think, when Bruno Gimaraes, who's a new arrival, of course, a bit more experienced than Solis, who probably feels, you know, a little better place to impart his football experience.

37:55James McNicholas: You know, I can't remember who he was chastising, whether it was Konza or whether it was Raya. But, you know, it's there and that's how you become as effective as we are. Sort of like that old thing about the chain is only as strong as its weakest link, right? Arsenal will not allow anyone to be a weak link, you know? And if that means a few sharp words on the pitch, that's all it is. And I think the culture that allows that to happen is essentially a really positive one, you know? Because we've all played football. We all understand the game. We all understand heat of the moment stuff. We all understand, you know, someone with the best of intentions can switch off for half a second.

38:37James McNicholas: And that can be fatal in a game of football. And if someone's, you know, on your back and reminding you that you have a job to do, that you've got to be, you know, really, really disciplined. You've got to concentrate. And actually, that was something Declan Rice also said on Match of the Day, that it wasn't just a physical battle. It was a mental one as well because the positioning, the awareness of the opposition, the awareness of your teammates, all of that is a mental test as well as a physical one.

39:07Andrew Allen: Yeah, and I think we've seen, you know, in darker times at Arsenal, we've seen players get on each other's back for the wrong reasons, you know. And you see that in Manchester United at the moment, Bruno Fernandes throwing his arms up in the air in exasperation at times. But this is different. This is based on a kind of a foundation of mutual respect and sharing team ethos, team values, a common goal. And it's right through the side as well. You know, you mentioned Calafuri at the back. I saw Gabriel, Konza, Rice and even Martin Odegaard leading the press, you know, asking for more from Solis, Madueke, Havertz.

39:51Andrew Allen: it is right through the team. They all have that desire. They all have that commitment. And they now have the belief and the confidence and the conviction that it works.

40:02James McNicholas: Yeah.

40:03Andrew Allen: And they know that it works. They know that it works because they've all got Premier League medals at home in their safe. So, you know, that strengthens that identity. And I think it was a couple of weeks ago on here, we were talking and I was saying, this Arsenal team is not a dramatically different, you know, team to last season. I think it's one that shares so many of its key core founding principles. But I think what the Premier League title has done is kind of solidified and strengthened some of those principles. And I think what we saw at Anfield was a brilliant demonstration of that.

40:43James McNicholas: Yeah. With, I think, you know, room for improvement as well. and that's certainly a conversation that maybe we'll have in part two. There have been some questions about that, but it felt impressive from Arsenal. Leave aside that little period where we did ride our luck and Liverpool had a period in the game where they were on top. The way that Arsenal came out in the second half and just sort of nullified Liverpool as an attacking threat, there were little moments here or there for them. And when a game is on the margin, when it's just a one-goal lead, you always have that sort of bit of anxiety in the back of your mind but going top of the table and everyone's going well Arsenal are now going to be champions I think it's way too early to start talking about that I think Arsenal fans you are too wise to think that over the course of a long season you can win the title in November I think that's ridiculous there's such a long way to go and I think we all recognise that despite the fact that people might put words in our mouths and say things that we didn't necessarily say, right?

41:49James McNicholas: But the mark of champions, I thought it was interesting that Arteta used a specific word in his post-game press conference. And he talked about it in the context of going to Anfield and winning after 14 years. And that word was mission. He used the word mission. But I think that applies more broadly to what Arsenal are trying to do this season, which is to retain the title, something that we have not done in the modern era. There are buzzwords that go around and the word dynasty was used during the summer and all that. But I thought that was a fascinating word to use because that's what it feels like.

42:27James McNicholas: That's what that second half felt like to me, that Arsenal were on a mission to really show that if you want to win this title, if you want to beat us to the title, you are going to have to fucking work hard. and yeah, you're going to have to do a lot better than Liverpool did yesterday because we are just so good at what we do defensively.

42:49Andrew Allen: Yeah, I mean, Arsenal in that second half really did keep Liverpool at arm's length and it was kind of a big brothering, wasn't it? Just kind of holding them off with relative ease. That's not to downplay the significance of the achievement But going and winning there is something new. You know, it's another feather in our cap. It's another kind of thing ticked off, another mission accomplished for Mikel Arteta. And I think you're absolutely right. It is very early. Mikel himself underlined that in his press conference. Equally, I think you can't ignore the context of this result. You know, a win for Liverpool would have closed the gap between us and them to three points.

43:35Andrew Allen: it now sits at nine. And, you know, this is the side who many people outside might look at and say, well, they could be Arsenal's closest challengers across the course of the season. So for us to go clear, three clear of Man City, five clear of Brighton, nine clear of Liverpool, responding to the Brighton defeat, by the way, with four Premier League wins on the bounce, I think it's fantastic. It's been a really, really superb response for Arsenal. And they've really set out their stall. And we're going to be hard to catch. I think we're going to be hard to catch.

44:15James McNicholas: Yeah, yeah. Take nothing for granted. I think as well, you know, when you look at some of the away games that we've played this season as well, you know, we've been away at Villa, away to Sunderland where we suffered a bit last season. Obviously the away day at Brighton didn't go the way we would have liked, but Forrest away where we've had difficult times in recent seasons. We've done Bayern Munich away in the Champions League. We've done Liverpool away. You know, we've spent quite a lot of this season. It feels like we've spent way more of this season on the road than at home. I think our first game back after the interlull is away to Newcastle, after which we don't leave London for the best part of two months, which is hopefully going to be a boost.

45:03James McNicholas: But look, Arteta said before the game about going to Anfield, I've come here and many places we were 20 years, 18 years without winning. So that's the opportunity that we have. And clearly that message resonated with the team in terms of the performance that they put in and the statement win. I think it is kind of a statement win as well, isn't it? Maybe Amy would call it a fuck off win. I'm not quite sure, but it is a statement of this team's quality, solidity, and its title credentials.

45:37Andrew Allen: Absolutely. And I think, you know, you talk about those away trips, Sunderland, Villa, Forest, Liverpool, those are all results that we've converted to wins from last season. I think I'm right in saying from the equivalent fixtures, obviously we lost at Brighton, which we won last year, but I think we're seven points up at this early stage in the Premier League from the equivalent game. So fantastic. You know, what we're doing is so, so impressive. And we're doing it in a very clear fashion. I mean, everybody knows what Arsenal are about and it doesn't make it any easier to beat them.

46:21James McNicholas: No, a big day, a big win, a really enjoyable win as well. And having waited 14 years for three points to come back to North London from Anfield, I think every Arsenal fan can be really, really happy this morning. Anything else before we go into the questions?

46:38Andrew Allen: Not really, mate. No, I'm looking forward to talking more about it and enjoying it.

46:45James McNicholas: All right, well, we'll take a little break and we will be back with your questions and more in part two right after this.

47:02James McNicholas: Welcome back to the Arsecast Extra. This is part two of the show where we answer the questions that you send to us on bluesky at gunnerblog.bsky.social and at arseblog.com. Also, what's the thing? What's it called? The Discord? Discord thing. Yeah, the Discord thing. I forgot what Discord was called there. But you get access to that if you're an Arsebog member on Patreon, from which we get the first question. Do you mind if I ask you this one? Because we obviously discussed the Alexis McAllister thing. But Joe New Dawn Games says, Goodly fucking morning, gents. Do you think McAllister should get a red card for trying to get Nani sent off?

47:45James McNicholas: If a player gets a yellow for waving an imaginary card when trying to get someone else booked and a yellow for simulation, could the PGMOL look at stamping out the kind of thing McAllister did yesterday, whereby he exaggerated contact in order to get Matawake sent off and sent him off instead? How else can we expect to stamp out this kind of behavior from the game unless we impose a penalty that is proportional to the offense?

48:11Andrew Allen: It's an interesting question, isn't it? McAllister was booked, wasn't he? I think he was booked for something.

48:16James McNicholas: Yeah, him and Timber were booked.

48:19Andrew Allen: Yeah. I mean, what was that yellow for, do you think?

48:25James McNicholas: I don't know.

48:27Andrew Allen: Just being a cunt, I guess.

48:28James McNicholas: Yeah, exactly. Ref said, yeah, you're an absolute cunt. Going to have to book yours. Sorry about that.

48:36Andrew Allen: Banks are right. Yeah. It's an interesting one, isn't it? I mean, it's simulation, I guess, which is a booking as well. I think I think giving reds for that kind of simulation is probably a bit much but it would be a good deterrent that's for sure

48:58James McNicholas: isn't there a thing that explains why the player got booked like there's a yeah possibly PGMOL decision thing social media account. I'm not 100 % sure. I don't know if he was booked for the simulation or if he was booked for going head-to-head with Timber or, you know, whatever it was. But I do think, yeah, I'm not sure about a red card in that situation, but they need to be more clear, I think, when incidents like this happen that it is unacceptable. That if a player is basically cheating to try and get an opposition player sent off that it should absolutely be 100 a yellow card yeah unless

49:48Andrew Allen: it's gabriel at the other end yeah then he should be rewarded if anything yes fruit basket

49:58Andrew Allen: um let's have a look what have i got here well here's here's a sort of different perspective on the game from fern 27 on blue sky and they say goodly morning guys loved the win how sustainable is it for us to keep playing like this without killing games off feel like we need to unleash a counter-attack to put these games to bed uh with that said would you go all out in january to get this type of attacker i mean january is a separate conversation but is it sustainable for us to keep playing like this yeah yeah because we're really good at it

50:34James McNicholas: But I understand why people have concerns, right? Because when the margins are small, when it's only a one goal margin, you leave yourself open to the vagaries of a slip, a piece of genius from the opposition, you know, a set piece, the referee deciding that, oh, well, that's a penalty. I didn't give him a penalty in the first half. I owe them a penalty in the second half. You know, you leave yourself open to the vagaries of the game in that way. And I understand why that sort of worries people and frustrates people. But I think if you're saying, are Arsenal capable of beating every team in this league 1-0, I would say yes.

51:14James McNicholas: Should we beat every team in the league 1-0? No, we ought to try and do better. And I think there were moments yesterday where we could have done more in attack. There was one in the first half in particular when Matueke had cut in from the right-hand side. Do you remember this? and there was a run from Christos Solis and I was just screaming at my TV for him to just clip the ball over the top into the path of Solis, who would have been in behind and he sort of took an extra touch and came back. And I think moments like that, recognizing that there are moments like that with the players that we have, that we can do better, you've got to look at that, right?

51:53You've got to look at the areas

51:56James McNicholas: in which you can improve. and for me that's clearly the the final third and some of the final third decision making that we have and i think we can do better with the players that we have but i also understand why there is this conversation or debate or discussion around january right now and i you know i always think about what Mikel Arteta says, you know, when people talk to him about, you know, how do you build on being champions, for example? And he says, well, we've got to try and just be better every day. That's the goal. Every day we've got to be a little bit better than the day before.

52:41James McNicholas: And I think if Arsenal aren't looking at the January transfer window and looking at the options that we have in the final third and looking at the front three and thinking that there isn't room for improvement there. You know, we're not doing our jobs properly. Does it mean that the right player is going to be there in January, that the opportunity will be there? I don't know. But I think it is pretty clear to everybody that if there is an improvement to be made within this Arsenal team, it's not really midfield. It's not really defence. It's not really the goalkeeper. It's up front. And I think, you know, what I said on Blue Sky yesterday was, if we could attack half as well as we defend, we'd be the best team in the world by miles, genuinely.

53:22James McNicholas: And that's, you know, a bit throwaway, a little bit of a joke, but also not really. And I think that is, you know, why even after a big win like this and you recognize how good Arsenal were and how well we played in most aspects of the game, there's part of you that wants a little bit more.

53:42Andrew Allen: Yeah, and they are games of fine margins and for the most part, low scores. We were having a look last night. In Arsenal's nine Premier League games to date, they have scored 14 and conceded five. So a cumulative total of 19 goals in their first nine games. That is the lowest of any league leader at this stage in the past 25 years. So yeah, they are low scoring affairs currently. fine margins, but Arsenal are showing they know how to work those margins in their favour.

54:22James McNicholas: Do you not think that, I mean, I don't know what your opinion on this is, is that, you know, we and Mikel Arteta would be looking for more in that sense, that I think the sort of the pragmatic element of his management is to say, I know where we're good. I know where we're strong. I know what I can lean into. Two, I have absolute faith and trust in the organization and the discipline of the team that I put out there. And I think, you know, whatever you think about the forward line, I think I made it clear in part one that this is a collective effort, right? It's a back to or front to back defensive effort.

55:02James McNicholas: And I think those forward players are perhaps a little bit at times, can be, not always, a little bit inhibited or restricted by the work they have to do in other areas of the pitch. but do you not think that Mikel Arteta will be looking at this team and sort of thinking, God, if I just had that lightning quick winger, if I had that centre forward who I could absolutely bank on to hold the ball up, et cetera, et cetera, that it would make his life a little bit easier and make the margins of these games a little less slight?

55:38Andrew Allen: Undoubtedly, and you made the point about if we attacked as well as we defend and we know Mikel Arteta has told us many times he wants his team to be the best in every aspect of the game. So I think he will be relentless in his pursuit of that. We had an interesting question from Rohan Patel on Blue Sky, kind of about the style or the approach of the team. And they said, good morning. Do you reckon retreating after we go a goal up is tactical design or a fail-safe the players resort to? I love a classic 1-0 to the Arsenal as much as anyone, but surely there's a less stressful way to get the job done at times.

56:19James McNicholas: I agree there is a less stressful way and maybe that less stressful way is Kai Havertz being an inch or two ahead of where he was and poking the ball home for 2-0 or Jurian Timber not being in the way of Nani Maduweke putting the ball back into the middle for Kai Havertz to tap it in for 2-0. So, you know, I think there have been games. Definitely there have been games when we've gone ahead and then immediately handed the opposition the momentum. I don't think that was quite the case yesterday. I don't think it was quite the case yesterday because we had those moments where we could have gone further ahead.

56:58James McNicholas: But I also think that there is an ability within this Arsenal team to recognize the way a game is going and to adapt. and I think we get criticized quite a lot for maybe not being as open and as expensive as people might like but we're also not fucking stupid. We're really not stupid. We've seen Arsenal teams leave themselves wide open trying to attack and trying to score goals and get punished, you know? And I think what this team has the ability to do is to say, okay, hey, we're under some pressure here. If we can get out, we can get out and we'll try and break and we'll try and counter. And I think, you know, a big area of improvement for Arsenal.

57:50James McNicholas: I see people asking questions about can we get an attacking coach? Do we need an attacking coach? There was one on the Discord from Errol B who asks, do you think it's time he had an attacking coach? I'd love for Arsenal to have a counter-attacking coach because that's the area of the game where I think we really, really could improve in part because, you know, we don't necessarily have the pace that you would like to get out in the way that you would. But also we can recognize the way a game is going and we say, okay, in this period of the game, we're going to sit in, we're going to deny them space, we're going to deny them opportunities.

58:28James McNicholas: It wasn't, you know, perfect yesterday, particularly in the first half, but in the second half it was. But I don't think it's just purely defensive either. You know, I think there is something to the mindset of the team that is important here, that it's about not losing. And I don't know if you saw the clip during the rounds. I think it was, who was the guy? Fjortoft. You know, he's the presenter on Viaplay. And he spoke to Sabaslay. and he said, you know, Arsenal make the game difficult for you. It gets broken up. You don't have the rhythm. How difficult is that to deal with? You know, sort of suggesting that Arsenal were spoilers in many ways.

59:17James McNicholas: And Sadaslay said, you know, well, they were 1-0 up. We would do that if we were 1-0 up and they wouldn't play like that if they were 1-0 down. So it really is about the game state and how you can challenge your opponent to come and break you down and to try and get the goal that they need. And Arsenal are prepared to stand there, not stand there, but to say to the opposition, okay, come have a go. And we'll put bodies in the way. We'll put bodies on the line. We'll block your shots. We'll make the tackles. We'll snuff you out at every available opportunity. How many crosses did Liverpool have yesterday?

59:56James McNicholas: 38, something like that. apparently the most crosses Arsenal have faced in who knows how long do you think that's do you think that's accidental or do you think that's deliberate do you think that's a deliberate well Arsenal say cross it do it fling a few balls in some of them are going to be dangerous the IZAC one was dangerous there was one that drifted just wide of the the post in the first half that was dangerous what about the rest of them bang away away gabrielle away califuri away konza away kai havertz back in there away you know it it's not a question that we just sort of say i just think we're confident that we can deal with whatever the opposition put in and it's a strength and i understand why they would feel comfortable with it

1:00:49Andrew Allen: you know yeah i think evidently that they do um let's have a question from you right

1:00:57James McNicholas: We had a couple of questions about, again, it's about defending. It's about specific defenders. Couple on Konza. Al Wayne, 75 on Blue Sky. Can you remember a signing who settled in and got up to speed as quickly as Konza? And Macho, Macho Grande won. Who the fuck did we sign in this Konza guy? And what does it mean looking forward? I've got another one about another defender now in a minute as well, but maybe deal with the Konza one first.

1:01:24Andrew Allen: Yeah, listen, I think he's been excellent. I'm such a fan of his and he's made a superb start. I suppose what you're hoping for when you pay 60 odd million for a Premier League England international centre-back is guarantee. Guarantee. And he's delivered that, which is some going. And I'll openly say I wasn't necessarily convinced that that was a good use of resource. but he's been so fantastic and he's enabled us to retain that defensive strength. That's been the cornerstone of our success. So yeah, I'm full of praise for Esri Konza and he's just been brilliant. I can't, in terms of like a siding, who's sort of stepped in and settled so quickly.

1:02:17Andrew Allen: I mean, we've been very blessed in recent years with people like Declan Rice who've, who've done that. But yeah, he's been absolutely fantastic.

1:02:26James McNicholas: Wonderful. Yeah, just a brilliant signing. A brilliant signing. And, you know, I see the questions about William Saliba and like what happens now when Saliba comes back and I get it, I understand it. Give me that problem every fucking day of the week as opposed to the, oh God, who are we going to play at centre-half conversation. You know, I don't worry about William Saliba because as good as Kanza is and has been, Saliba has been maybe the best central defender in the world for the last couple of years. So I don't worry about it from that point of view. I just think we'll probably see over the course of the season a little more rotation in our central defensive areas.

1:03:06Because, you know, as good as they have been, Gabriel and Kanza can't play every game, every week.

1:03:15James McNicholas: You know, they just can't do it. So we have to recognize that. And I think Saliba will play a lot of football as well when he comes back in. But Konza has been brilliant. Here is the other question, if I can find it. Oh, for God's sake. Oh, I've got it. JB on the Discord says, I was really impressed with Calafiore's defensive work throughout the game. It seems to me this area of his game doesn't get the credit he deserves. He's clearly worked on his man-to-man work and deserves his flowers, as they say, for his performance. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I think he's been better in that regard all season, to be honest.

1:03:51I think he's made real strides and his physicality is something I really noticed.

1:03:59Andrew Allen: You know, now that he's largely touch wood, managing to stay fit, he is very dominant in the 1v1 battles. And yesterday, I mean, the amount of runs forward and sprints forward, again, not to pivot away from his defending too much, But the sheer repetitions he was providing in terms of being a sort of third man runner was unbelievable. I mean, yeah, honestly, his movement to watch at Anfield, he would go from defending his own penalty area to attacking the oppositions so consistently. He looks like a player who's really, really enjoying his football at the moment. And I mean that both in the attacking and defensive respect.

1:04:45Andrew Allen: So I hope it can continue for a long time.

1:04:49James McNicholas: Yeah, I like the questioner there was so impressed with his one-on-one defending yesterday. I think there was a focus and a determination and a concentration in that aspect of his game that I thought was really, really impressive. Because I think initially that was maybe where you looked at him and thought, well, he's a bit raw there, you know. But you can see the development, right? I do remember maybe early on in his Arsenal career, the first season, people would skip past him a bit easily, you know, whether it was on the halfway line, whether it was sort of on the touchline. The timing of his tackles was not great.

1:05:32James McNicholas: His reading of what the opposition player was going to do was, yeah, there was room for improvement. The improvement is here. We've seen that improvement yesterday. I thought it was absolutely fantastic from him. And I know that he kind of catches the eye in different ways because of the way he gets forward, because of the runs that he makes, because of the sort of the attacking prowess that he has as well. But I really, really liked his performance yesterday. I thought it was absolutely fantastic.

1:06:03Andrew Allen: Quite agree. Here's a question that I think is interesting about the composition of the midfield. So Ashley says, Goodly evening. This was done last night. Do we have to start having a conversation about Bruno? Personal opinion, but I just don't think he works well in the big games. Play passes by him quite a lot. Once Miles Lewis-Gelly came on, Arsenal were a lot more secure. Makes me question the money spent on him, which could have been used elsewhere.

1:06:42James McNicholas: I understand that question. I thought he was okay yesterday.

1:06:51Andrew Allen: Yeah, I saw Miles getting a lot of credit for his contribution once he came on.

1:06:56James McNicholas: Yeah, I thought he was good. A little bit untidy a couple of times in possession. He got caught on the ball in the Liverpool half, I think, as well, once, which, you know, sort of catches the eye. But I thought he was good. We were talking about this a little bit on the preview podcast before the game. And Lewis was asking me, like, what would your midfield three be for for Anfield? And I had said my preference would have been Rice, Lewis Skelly and Odegaard. because I just sort of felt that like,

1:07:34James McNicholas: if you want to change something, Bruno feels more effective in that sense, coming off the bench. He just sort of has qualities and attributes that can add something to a game if you're in the position where you need that to happen. You know, as it stood in this game, maybe it made sense that we were 1-0 up and then Lewis Skelly, who maybe is a little more structural or gives you a bit more structure in midfield, was the guy to come off the bench. I mean, he was involved in the goal. He, you know, played the pass to Matueke, to Rice, and then obviously to Havertz. He did have the shot, which almost led to Havertz poking in for the second goal.

1:08:17I still think it's early days, you know,

1:08:21James McNicholas: between him, Odegaard, and Rice, that the combinations maybe aren't quite there yet. but I'm not especially worried about it, even if I can see where that question has come from.

1:08:37Andrew Allen: Yeah, one thing I would say I noticed about Bruno, I mentioned Calafuri's movement. Every time Bruno was on the ball or about to receive the ball, Calafuri was on his bike. And I think that tells you something about how his teammates see him and what they believe he's capable of doing. You know, there was such an urgency about their movement when Bruno's on the ball because they think, this is a guy who can find me. Now, that's clearly, I think, sort of what he can bring to the group and what he can bring to the team. I'll be honest, at this present moment, I do feel a little bit more comfortable with Myles Lewis-Skelly in that midfield.

1:09:24Andrew Allen: I think it's just a balance thing partly and I feel like some of the relationships are better and more established as you mentioned there's a way to go yet for Bruno but I think I'm not at the point I forget who said the question is Ashley. I'm not yet at the point where I'm sort of querying the spending or the allocation of resource. I still think Bruno's a great option to have, and he's been a match winner for us already this season.

1:09:58James McNicholas: That's a key point here that, you know, he scored that goal against Sunderland and he scored the goal against Forrest?

1:10:07Andrew Allen: No, Madowekki scored against Forrest. Oh, yeah, of course. He scored against Edge of the Box. I can't remember now. It's too many games, Andrew. Bruno Guimaraes. Leeds. Leeds. Leeds. Leeds. So he's already making big contributions and I think he will grow into becoming a really important part of the team. I thought he was super fired up at Anfield. and sometimes when players are really fired up, they can gas a little bit, you know? And I think the fact that he was changed on the hour mark might be indicative of that. I get the feeling that he is still also building up to the fitness level that is required of a Mikel Arteta midfielder.

1:11:02Andrew Allen: You know... That's a great point. I do think Mikel demands a lot of players in that position. And if there was a reservation about Bruno, certainly from his time in France, it was around that stamina, that mobility. At Newcastle, he had players around him who did a lot of that running for him. I'm thinking of people like Joe Linton, Joe Willock, people who covered a lot of ground. He's definitely improved in that regard and became quite physically dominant at Newcastle. But I think coming to Arsenal, playing alongside Declan Rice, following Mikel Arteta's instructions is another level two physically.

1:11:44Andrew Allen: And let's not forget, he had that injury as well and not much of a pre-season.

1:11:51James McNicholas: Yeah, I think that's very fair. I think that's very fair. Where did I have a question?

1:11:58Andrew Allen: I've got one if you're still looking. Sure, yeah. You know, because we've spoken about transfers and the attack, I just thought it was interesting to get your take on this. Count Swagula said, Goodly morning, gents. Would Bradley Barcola have added much to our attack based on yesterday?

1:12:22James McNicholas: I mean, he would certainly have given us pace. There was a moment about eight minutes in, nine minutes in, where Liverpool launched a counterattack right down the middle. I don't know if you remember. I can't remember if we gave the ball. I think maybe Bruno gave the ball away right on the edge of their box or a misplaced pass rather than give the ball away. That's maybe a bit harsh. Trying to make something happen. The ball didn't go where it was supposed to go. They got it forward really quickly. And they played a pass right between the central defenders and Barcola was there to run onto it.

1:13:01James McNicholas: David Raya was the guy who snuffed it out because of the high positioning he takes and that's part of why he does that, right? So he certainly would have given us pace.

1:13:14James McNicholas: I mean, Solis almost scored. He set up that opportunity for Matawaka at the back post. I mean, he did as much as Barcola did for Liverpool in this game. so I guess the answer is what do you have given us more I don't think so

1:13:32Andrew Allen: yeah it's just interesting isn't it because obviously Liverpool paid a real premium for Barclay what did they pay

1:13:38James McNicholas: 120 million 125 something like that

1:13:41Andrew Allen: yeah something like that a lot of money 123 according to Sky Sports yeah I mean he is a threat like I know that he didn't necessarily deliver the decisive moments yesterday, but there were a couple of balls into the box that were pretty dangerous and might have ended differently. Arsenal, I think, on that particular side, did struggle at times in the first half because Nani seemed to be pressing inside a lot, like pushing into the centre-forward position to try and regain the ball and that left Timber a little bit isolated.

1:14:19James McNicholas: I thought he worked so hard yesterday, by the way. I thought it was a really, really

1:14:28James McNicholas: impressive performance in that sense, you know.

1:14:33Andrew Allen: I agree. I agree. I think it was one of his best games. Yeah. Yeah. Barclay, would he have added something? Yes, I think he probably would have added something, a different quality, you know, a different set of attributes. But it is kind of crazy that that's now the bar in terms of the price for a player who, while dangerous and wild threat, is still in some respects a little raw and I think struggling to deliver consistent results. Yeah.

1:15:08James McNicholas: It's a bit scary. So basically, fuck you, Man City. Is that what you're saying?

1:15:13Andrew Allen: Well, I'm always saying that. Yeah, yeah, okay.

1:15:15James McNicholas: Every week. It doesn't hurt, does it? It doesn't. Can I ask you this one? Corey Perkins on the Discord. Could it be argued that Declan Rice is Arsenal's best transfer deal of all time? And I know that's a bit hyperbolic, but I think it's just an interesting way to get into a conversation about Rice and how fundamental he is to this team.

1:15:45Andrew Allen: He's superb, isn't he? I mean, the fifth assist of the season yesterday, all from open play as well. And then, you know, the defensive part of his game is obviously outstanding. He is a truly complete footballer. He's almost a cheat code in midfield because he can do everything and he can do it with such intensity and such repetition.

1:16:13James McNicholas: He's no longer a lighthouse. We tried to figure out what he was the other week. He's not a lighthouse. What is he? Is he a shopping centre with all different kinds of attributes? You know? Maybe.

1:16:26Andrew Allen: Yeah, yeah. I'm sticking with Combine Harvester, I think. But he, yeah, he's unbelievable. I mean, I saw on Sky, they were lording him as the best midfielder in the league, and it isn't particularly close, and I think that's right. the best signing in Arsenal's history Is he

1:16:47James McNicholas: Mikel Arteta's best signing?

1:16:53I think so I think so

1:16:56Andrew Allen: there are other contenders Gabriel Gabriel was a brilliant buy David Raya has been superb you can argue Martin Odegaard kind of a project defining player.

1:17:13James McNicholas: Pound for pound, you know, you got to put that caddy in, you know.

1:17:17Andrew Allen: But I think Rice is probably the best because he, I think he is the core reason that Arsenal changed from nearly men to winners. I do think he sort of exemplifies that. And it didn't happen immediately, immediately but it happened pretty darn quickly yeah um and i i i do think that he is at the heart of that so yeah it's an extraordinary thing to say for a player who costs you over 100 million pounds but yes i think he might well be michael says best and and certainly in my mind most

1:17:56James McNicholas: important signing yeah it's when you try and analyze a signing and everyone will you know you've got different ways of doing it right you've got the the price what do they deliver What are they bringing to the team? But all of the guys that you mentioned as Arteta's key signings, I think have one thing in common, is that they all raised the level, right? Odegaard, when he came in, raised the level. Gabriel, when he came in, raised the level, despite the fact he was a little bit raw. But once he established himself, he raised the level. David Raya raised the level. and then you sort of have to look at Rice in the context of how far the level had already been raised for him to raise it again.

1:18:44James McNicholas: And I think that sort of just gives him the slight edge on the other players that we mentioned. You know, the... I think so. Yeah.

1:18:52Andrew Allen: Yeah. And I think it was kind of a defining transfer window that summer of 2023. You know, I think people look back and talk about the summer of 2021 a lot, because it was kind of the reset moment and Arsenal signed five players under the age of 23 and told you about, you know, kind of the timeline for the project. But when you look at the summer of 2023, Declan Rice, Jurian Timber, David Ryer, Kai Havertz, that was a huge window in the development of this team and the formation of the identity that we see out on the pitch now.

1:19:32James McNicholas: Yeah. Yeah, I thought he was just, you know, superb yesterday, Rice, and has been throughout the season. And when Arteta talks about, like, wanting more from him and raising levels and, you know, adding different things to his game, five open play assists, he goes more than any other Arsenal player. He's more than any other player in the Premier League so far this season.

1:19:52Andrew Allen: And the way he raises levels, maybe he's a skyscraper, Andrew.

1:19:57James McNicholas: Yeah, maybe so. Maybe so. So, but I think it's, you look at him and think, despite what he does, despite how well he does it, and despite the consistency with which he does it, I look at him sometimes and think, I think he's got more. I think there's more, which is mad, you know? but I likened him today a little bit. Not that they're the same kind of player, obviously, but in terms of his stature and his importance to this team, I likened him to Patrick Vieira. And I think that's probably as high a compliment as you can pay to any Arsenal midfielder because I think he is just that fundamental to this team and the way Vieira was.

1:20:45James McNicholas: Yeah, I agree.

1:20:48Andrew Allen: can I ask you a very different question of course it's actually not about the game but I think it's an interesting topic we had a couple of questions along these lines so Mulchies said good morning gents should we be concerned about Ranieri it seems at least three managers have been reluctant to give him minutes clearly huge talent could it be an attitude issue Golden Frown said goodly morning are you worried at all about Ranieri zero goal involvements after approximately 410 minutes was an unused sub versus Bayern yesterday. It's still early. But what have you made of his loan spell thus far?

1:21:25Andrew Allen: I think he does have one. I think Lewis has been talking about this online as well. I think he does have one assist in the Bundesliga, I think.

1:21:33James McNicholas: I did check the stats a little bit earlier, and I think he's got one assist in the Bundesliga.

1:21:37Andrew Allen: That rings a bell, actually. Yeah.

1:21:39James McNicholas: Am I worried? Not necessarily, you know. I was, and I think you were too, a very strong advocate of Arsenal loaning Ethan Wynary this summer rather than selling him.

1:21:57James McNicholas: Arsenal, you know, tried to sell a young Hayland graduate, which didn't go down very well, obviously. In Wynary's case, I wanted to see him go out there and play. I think Dortmund was a, you know, it's a good club for him to be at, the kind of football that they play, the kind of learning experience he could have in Germany, you know, as a player and a person. I think it ticked all the right boxes. It is November. I remember Nuno Tavares. This is a bit of a pivot, but do you remember Nuno Tavares? I think he went on loan to Marseille. Yeah. And like in the first six or eight weeks, he had like five goals and a couple of assists.

1:22:47And it was like, oh my God, what's this guy doing?

1:22:50James McNicholas: And then, you know, he didn't do anything for the rest of the season. I think the same thing happened when he went to Napoli as well, didn't it? On loan. Really quickly, he made an impact in terms of goals or assists or whatever it might have been. And he caught the eye. And then it sort of leveled out a bit. So maybe the reverse could be true of Ethan, you know, that maybe in the second half of the season or maybe as he feels a bit more settled or gets to grips with what the coach wants or what the environment is like, you know, at that club, he can make a difference and he can start contributing.

1:23:25James McNicholas: But I'm willing to give it to maybe, you know, I've got enough to worry about, generally speaking, about Arsenal and, you know, life in general without worrying too much about Ethan. I want to see him do well. I really do. It's obviously not going as well as he would like and maybe as well as Dortmund would like, but the season is long. And, you know, in three months' time or five months' time, we could be talking about him very differently. But, you know, clearly there's a bit of room for improvement right there.

1:23:53Andrew Allen: I think so. I mean, I think what's interesting about this is there is that recall clause that Arsenal have for January. I agree it's early. I'm just having a look at what Lewis said at the weekend. And he said, behind Chukwemeka and Bellingham in the pecking order for the number 10 roles in a big game, this Reneri loan is not going well. You could see in previous appearances, he's too often not where Kovac wants him. And then he finished by saying, can't imagine anything but Arsenal recalling in January unless something changes in the next few weeks. So something to keep an eye on. Maybe we're approaching crunch time.

1:24:32You know, maybe this is the moment where we need to start seeing a bit more of Ethan and him making an impact there or Arsenal reconsider.

1:24:40Andrew Allen: Because, yeah, I was a big advocate for him going out on loan, but another unsuccessful loan isn't going to help anybody.

1:24:49James McNicholas: Do we know if it's just an Arsenal recall or is there a mechanism through which Dortmund can say we don't want to keep him?

1:24:58Andrew Allen: Not sure. Right. Not sure. Right. But Arsenal, I mean, yeah. Even recalling him is a gamble. It's like you're sort of hoping that something's going to work out better. But as we learned with Marseille and perhaps now Dortmund, there are just no guarantees in the loan market. It's always a bit of a gamble.

1:25:19James McNicholas: Yeah, it is. It is. We'll have to wait and see how it goes. And hopefully, you know, this is a test. It's a challenge for him and for his career. You know, this could be seen as a really big developmental loan, you know, where even if it doesn't secure his Arsenal future, it opens up doors for him to move to, you know, a certain stature of Premier League club. You know what I mean? So there is an onus on him as well, you know, and this is a challenge and I guess we'll wait and see how he responds. Hopefully, you know, he can do that and hopefully he can do better. And hopefully there are moments where, you know, the talent that we know he has and that we've seen when he's played in red and white for Arsenal comes to the fore for Dortmund.

1:26:06So, yeah.

1:26:09Andrew Allen: Yeah, fingers crossed.

1:26:10James McNicholas: I'm just trying to think have I got any more. A lot of them were about the game. A lot of them. I like this one, Matt. Toy that kills on Blue Sky. Toy that kills.bsky.social. When David Reyes sprints over to chat to Arteta a few times a game, what could they actually be discussing? Yes, keep on doing saves, David.

1:26:34Andrew Allen: I imagine it's more about distribution and maybe some stuff on set pieces or shapes. But yeah, I think the saves are a given, aren't they? I don't think Mikel has to say that one. Probably not. Not that he had to make many yesterday. No, he didn't. He didn't. There was one, interestingly, this is a real deep cut for the nerds, but Opta did award a shot on target to Liverpool during the game. It was, I think, a Ronald Araujo-deflected effort that ended up kind of spinning up, and then Raya claimed it. And that was originally labelled as a shot on target, but it was later reviewed and declared a blocked attempt rather than a shot on target.

1:27:20Andrew Allen: That was about as hard as Davi Raya had to work, other than coming and claiming a few crosses, which he did in an example of a fashion.

1:27:27James McNicholas: Joseph Nathan says, what do you make of Arteta making such late subs and only using four in such an intense game? Is this Mikel showing that his circle of trust is in fact much smaller than we think?

1:27:39Andrew Allen: I did think that was really interesting because, you know, we've got used to the double changes, the triple changes relatively early. People saying, is that just a feature of Arteta's game? management now and yesterday I thought it was very clear that for the first 80 minutes he was very comfortable with the 12 men he used you know it was starting 11 and then Miles Lewis-Gelly came on and frankly I think that the other changes that followed that were sort of freshness changes you know they were sort of just seeing the game out but he was very very comfortable with the players he had on the pitch.

1:28:18Andrew Allen: I think he, I don't know if it's about circle of trust being smaller. I just think, I think he was just comfortable with the game state as it was and didn't want to change it unnecessarily.

1:28:31James McNicholas: A bit of if it ain't broke, don't fix it kind of thing. I think, yeah, he was cognizant of the balance that we had in the game. You know, that we were doing well, so don't change something for the sake of changing it, you know, and then you get to a point where he can throw on some fresh legs and hopefully they make a little bit of a difference when you're trying to see a game like that out.

1:28:52Andrew Allen: Yeah, and it is a delicate balance. That's the thing. And I think he was just loathe to upset that by bringing on a player who might be stylistically different.

1:29:03James McNicholas: I also quite like this one from Red Leader who says, how does the midfield today compare to the last win at Anfield? Diaby, Arteta and Wilshire. And which one would you pick to join the team, assuming time travel is a thing and we don't just use it to kill Hitler. I was like, that certainly went off on a tangent.

1:29:23Andrew Allen: Well, I was going to say, I was going to sort of make a pithy joke about how Declan Rice yesterday was nearly as good as Abu Dhabi was at Anfield in 2012. That is a performance that's sort of, you know, gone into mythology really.

1:29:37James McNicholas: It was, yeah, he was very, very good that day to be fair.

1:29:40Andrew Allen: He was. And it was one of those glimpses of the player we... we hoped Diaby might become or might have been able to become had he stayed fit. How does this midfield compare Cazorla, Diaby, Arteta? I mean, I tell you what, the immediate thing that jumps out is the physical intensity. You know, you wouldn't necessarily apply that description to Mikel's playing style or Santi's playing style and even Diaby because of the injuries, while he was an awesome athlete, he wasn't necessarily the most intense, you know, he was just kind of picking his moments. Whereas now, look at the ground that Odegaard, Rice cover, the sprinting that's demanded of them, the fact that, you know, Bruno has to be replaced by Miles who comes on at such a high intensity.

1:30:33Andrew Allen: That seems to me to be the real difference and I guess an intriguing disparity between Mikel, the player, and Mikel, the coach.

1:30:43James McNicholas: Yeah, I mean, you know, he was obviously modifying his game back then as well when he joined Arsenal. Arteta was, what, 28-29 when he joined, and he was primarily at Everton an attacking midfielder, a number 10 kind of guy, but at Arsenal became this pivot. But, you know, you look at the running that this Arsenal team puts in. Liverpool, we outran Liverpool by eight kilometres in this game, over eight kilometres. Odegaard ran a kilometre and a half more than Wurtz. You know, Rice, yeah, I mean, the ground that they cover in this game, Matuweke did 11.3 kilometres as a winger, which is, you know, kind of ridiculous.

1:31:28James McNicholas: So, yeah, I think you have to make the case for this particular midfield. Right. Shall we leave it there? Let's. Get this podcast out to everybody as ever. Thank you so much indeed for being with us and for listening. We're going to have an episode of The 30 tomorrow over on Patreon because there is some Monday night football tonight between Everton and Newcastle. And given the aggro that happened in their EFL Cup game in midweek, hopefully we've got some good aggro to talk about as well as all the rest of the Premier League action over the course of the weekend. We'll do that tomorrow on Patreon and probably have a little bit of a, is it Slavia Prague or Sparta Prague?

1:32:07Andrew Allen: We've got Slavia, actually.

1:32:09James McNicholas: There you go.

1:32:10Andrew Allen: On Wednesday night.

1:32:11James McNicholas: So the Prague preview, we might do a little bit of a Prague preview on the end of that as well. So if you'd like to join us for that, patreon.com forward slash Arsenal. For now though, folks, take it easy. Enjoy the big win at Anfield and we will catch you on the next one.

1:32:24Andrew Allen: Bye-bye.