Arsenal Women Arsecast 136: United in grief

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0:59but if there is one a Barcelona podcast will probably win it anyway quite frankly so we're recording this on Monday evening because I've had a tough couple of weeks listeners and I've got work going on in my house at the moment so can't really record during the day at the moment but we are going to bring you a podcast we are very very fresh from hearing the Ballon result, which is probably why I sound a little bit despondent, but we'll get into that, as well as Sunday's 0-0 draw with Manchester United. Here to do that as ever is Jamie Spanger. Jamie, how are you doing? Not the evening where you are.

1:39Jamie: No, it's not, Tim. Brighton early in the morning, I'm excited to unpack this terrible, boring game of football that I had to withstand at an incredible hour. And then the men's game was also as terrible and ended at about 4am. So yeah, still catching up on sleep. And then the bell and door. So yeah, football, you know? Yeah, yeah. All those kind of unsocial hours taking me back to my years covering South American football. But it's a bit, it's kind of difficult to know how to do this podcast this week. I mean, the game's pretty incident free, to be honest. So we're going to talk quite generally about the game.

2:17Obviously, we'll take your questions, as ever, in the second half. We will talk a little bit about the Ballon d 'Or as well, but obviously, it's difficult to find the right words. So it sounds terribly glib to say overshadowing all of that and the weekend and everything else, the terrible news on Saturday evening about Matt Beard. Someone I didn't know particularly well, but dealt with a fair few times in post-match press conferences. All I could say in my fairly limited interactions with him is he's exactly as you'd imagine. Just imagine if you haven't met Matt Beard, what you think Matt Beard would be like to me.

3:09That's exactly what it's like. basically just a very very just very very warm nice man who had time for everyone and Jamie on Saturday evening I was in my hotel in Lee and it's it felt it felt like a gut punch and it feels like one of those things you see on social media and you kind of think a half like I hope this is a sick joke you know and it's difficult it's I still find it quite difficult to process 48 hours on

3:43Jamie: yeah I woke up to it and I agreed to him I kind of saw it and I was like oh that's not true then I don't think it was a it wasn't like a news outlet at that stage I think it was the football club that his brother coaches or managers or and I was like okay well that's really weird and then I look more about it and it's just one of those things where it's weird for like like people like us I guess like we don't know Matt personally we're not his friends but we have interactions with Matt Beard and like he's always someone especially as someone young coming into journalism he's always so easy to talk to and so intelligent and he wanted to share that view in not like a I think you often get high European managers that are like oh this is exactly what I thought and this is how the game played out because I'm a manager and this is me I think Matt Beard is just so he's so frank and so honest and like he just he teaches people things through that and I I think there's been so many beautiful messages that have come out and a Carla Ward said like I'd call him whenever I needed and he'd always answer in the bath with a beer.

4:38Jamie: And Casey Stoney said so many things about how he basically changed football for her. And I think he did that for so many people. And it's just really sad because I don't think he realized that. And this whole widespread response to it just proves like how loved he was. And I was able to gather that within short, short interactions. I can't imagine how his family and friends feel. So, yeah, sending so much love to his wife, his kids, everyone that has played with him or just knows him and had the pleasure to. Yeah, definitely. I think obviously we always say nice things about people when things like this happen.

5:14But, you know, I had a little look. I just kind of did a search for my Twitter handle and Matt Beard. And I was like, OK, what have I actually said about this guy over the years? I knew there wasn't anything bad but you know I'd had a conversation with someone over the summer saying I felt Tottenham should have appointed him this summer as their manager there was another conversation from a few years ago and I can't remember which player it was but someone had gone to West Ham and they were like why is that player going to West Ham and I was like because of Matt Beard right there were quite a few players who signed for West Ham and Liverpool who you might not expect to sign for West Ham in Liverpool, but they did because of Matt Beard.

5:56And honestly, hand on my heart, if you'd have randomly asked me a week ago who is the most popular figure in women's football in England, I'd have said Matt Beard, and I wouldn't have thought about it. And one very random interaction I had with him once was he managed Bristol City for a little while when Tanya Oxtoby was on maternity leave, and he nearly kept them up. like they were dead and buried and he got them to fight to the last day for relegation. But we played there during lockdown and it was like social distancing era. But he came over at a distance to the press box because there were no fans in the ground.

6:38And he just started talking to people. He was talking to Sylvain Jamey, who some of you may know, has been around a very long time. And he just came over and had a chat. and I didn't realise, I'm from South London, my mates support Millwall. The last time Millwall played Arsenal in the men's, 1995, Arsenal lost 2-0. I've never lived it down because my best friends all support Millwall and I'd never made the connection that one of the goal scorers that night was Mark Beard, who's his brother, and actually he was the person who told me that that his brother had scored against Arsenal. And I was like, ah, yeah, I've never made that connection before.

7:19Just completely like random interaction. And yeah, I mean, I think like I never genuinely like never, ever heard like, not even not a crossword. Like I never heard anything other than just that people loved him. And it was, yeah, it's still very difficult to make sense of. and in the post-match press conference as well. Obviously, both managers were asked about it. I thought Mark Skinner was very good both on TV and in the post-match press conference. Obviously, he knew Matt very, very well and found it very, very difficult. And Jamie, he also said at some stage, he felt it had a bit of a bearing on the game.

8:04He said, you know, maybe a little bit why it petered out a little bit And you've got Taylor Hines, Olivia Smith, both played under him last year. Manchester United, two members of their coaching staff, the goalkeeping coach and the assistant manager, Scott Rogers, were both at Liverpool last season. So, you know, I think there may well have been a question at some point about whether the game would go ahead at all. And, you know, particularly when you saw, I think, Liv during the minute silence and I could see the Manchester United bench. It did feel like maybe there's a world in which this game shouldn't have happened.

8:43I don't know. But it did feel like, again, it sounds horribly clipped to say because it's only a football match, but it felt to me like it was always there, if that makes sense.

8:56Jamie: Yeah, I completely agree, Tim. I think the whole weekend maybe had this, other than the Friday night games. I was having a conversation with someone yesterday and saying, yeah, football just felt so flat this weekend in the WSL. And I think that's why there was a big result at Brighton and West Ham. But the game itself, if anyone's watched that game, it was completely boring. I don't know how they managed to be five goals in there. And it did feel like the league has just really been hit in the stomach. And I do think we got that from this Arsenal-Man United game. Even Leesports Village, so much quieter than usual.

9:24Jamie: No one wants to go to Lees. It's so loud. The Man United fans, they show up in numbers and noise. And on the stream, at least, I think they were half as enthusiastic. So, yeah, at the end of the day, I think it's a reminder that life is bigger than football. And sometimes football doesn't need to be a priority. And I think there needs to be more in the game that supports these managers, players, staff members, just like you guys are human beings. You're not just parts of the football cog machine. I think sometimes we as fans get lost in that as well. We expect them to turn it on and, okay, go play a football match because I want to watch Arsenal play.

9:57Jamie: So go play. And yeah, it does sometimes feel like we lose sight of the fact that these are human beings. And I hope that as horrible as this whole situation is, I don't think we're ever going to be able to digest it. I hope that people now remember, like, we need to make sure that we're safeguarding these people because football is a cruel world as much as it's also an amazing one. Yeah, definitely. And Renee was asked about, particularly about Taylor Hines and Olivia Smith and said they were given the choice about what they wanted to do. And they both answered that they felt Matt Beard would want them to play.

10:27And so, yeah, that's something that's very difficult to deal with and will continue to be very difficult to deal with. I think I'd say just in closing on this, first of all, the Arsenal Women Supporters Club who held up the We Love You Beardy sign. and I know Joe, one of the members, has kind of said, you know, we don't want this to be seen as from Arsenal, we want it to be seen as from football, from women's football. I thought that was a really nice touch and I have to say as well, Mark Skinner afterwards, who's always great in press conferences, I think I know you've been in a lot of his press conferences, incredibly personable, just loves to chat football.

11:13I think he stayed after the press conference and checked in on people because there's a lot of journalists who knew Matt very well. And I think it's fair to say in the press box, batteries were very low as well. And I think understandably this game didn't exactly recharge them too much. Before we go into the game and we'll talk about it quite generally, we are pretty fresh from the Ballon d 'Or results. So Arsenal win club of the year, four players in the top 10, two players in the top three, Alessio Russo finishing third, Mariana Caldente in second, Itana Bonmati taking it again. Your thoughts, feelings, letters to the editor?

12:00Jamie: Oh, my God. I was laughing, Tim. Like, this is genuine jokes. This gives, like, envelope, like, give someone who's never watched women's football an envelope and they know who they've seen in the media. over the last three years, I might as well write down Bob Matty, seems a short bet that she had a good year. Like if they're hellbound giving it to a Barcelona player, I could pick three or four Barcelona players that have had better league F seasons, better domestic seasons. And if you're going to look at a Spain player as well, like Bob Matty was player of the tournament, the Euros, which was a farce in general because her group stages were non-existent.

12:30Jamie: She had a really good semifinal. But like I just, the media clout that is involved in this Ballon d 'Or is quite hilarious and I think that's all we need to pin it down to. and if Mariona Caldente is going to be robbed of the Ballon d 'Or I'm almost glad that it's to someone that utterly doesn't deserve it and everyone's quite like outraged by it because oh my god if we didn't already think these award ceremonies were a joke this has basically proved it and I think Pateas in fourth to me she still didn't deserve to win it in my opinion that is very biased that is a biased opinion but if you're going to give it to someone I still think it should have gone to Alexi Pateas even Peor even Patri there's been better players than I, out of Almaty so yeah I'm kind of still at the laughing stage but Tim yeah I listen I I I just don't think these awards work in like um in a real kind of technical way because I just think I I personally my personal opinion is that like player of the season awards and stuff like that only work within a club because within a club everyone is operating within the same context and I think you can have a good idea.

13:36Across football, I just don't think, how am I supposed to compare an attacking midfielder from Barcelona with a goalkeeper from Wolfsburg or something like that? How am I supposed to do that? I'm not going to lie. I was excited about the prospect of an Arsenal player winning it and I did feel that probably Mariana was the one who had the chance, her or Russo. I think we might have said when the nominations came out I think we might have called this I think we might have said something like we'll have four or five in the top ten but we won't get an Arsenal player won't get the ultimate prize and yeah I mean I'd have loved it if an Arsenal player of any stripe would have won it but I don't honestly this is going to sound like Cope but I honestly just don't put an awful lot of an awful lot of stock in it, to be honest.

14:32I'd have celebrated if an Arsenal player won it, but it is what it is. I think we know what these awards are and aren't by now. And even the criteria, like no one really seems to be able to come up with a criteria. And I kind of think that's because it's impossible for the reasons I set out. How do you decide who the best player in the world is? I just don't think it really works like that. But anyway, we won the Champions League, so screw it. and look we won club of the year as well um whatever the hell that means i don't even know what that means what the criteria is for it psg won the men's club of the year so i think it just means won the champions league um which which i'm fine with by the way um manchester united versus arsenal then um like i say not an incident pack match but you know some selection stuff i think at the moment what we're getting is that we know what the back four is going to be going into the game we know who the goalkeeper is going to be we know who the midfield double pivot is going to be we probably know Russo is going to play be it as a 10 or a 9 but then there's like three other positions that are really up for grabs at the moment the wide positions and the 10 or if Steiner plays then Steiner plays and Olivia Smith, Caitlin Ford but I guess the the decision that got people talking was Blaxstinius starting with Russo behind her.

16:01What did you make of that choice from Rene?

16:04Jamie: Yeah, look, I think that where people's concerns have been is when you start with Stina Blaxstinius, you lose the edge of being able to bring on Stina Blaxstinius. And I completely agree with that. I just don't think anyone looked at this game and thought Man United are going to play low. Like I didn't expect Man United to play low. They play a very high defensive line, which is why Stina Blaxstinius has been so successful against them in the past. like at least Sports Village in particular. So I can understand the rationale there. You almost want to get them early. You think that they're going to play a high line.

16:31Jamie: You play them in and behind, and you know that Russo's got the ability in the 10 to hold the ball up. I don't like Alessio Russo in the 10. I don't like this combination at all, but I can see when I looked at the team sheet, I can completely see why the decision was made. I just think René Sagers was a bit blindsided by the fact that Man United sat a lot deeper than they usually do. And that comes into the fact that, like Jade Revere is not playing. They have to play Celine Buzet at right back. She's not a natural defender. You almost need to offer her more support. And I think that they managed the game well, Man United, in that aspect because maybe they almost thought this is what Arsenal will do to combat us.

17:03Jamie: Let's just combat Arsenal as a result. So I think for me the attacking line made a lot of sense when the lineup came out because you want Steena to make the runs. You also want Olivia Smith to be able to be more direct in that channel if there's a lot of space there. And then I think that Caitlin Ford is 100 % the third player that you play there in order to combat that. So on paper I thought, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, you do take away the threat of bringing Steiner on, but I think that's something we love. And sometimes we don't need to do that. It's almost about getting off the mark early.

17:31Jamie: But I don't think any of us could have looked in our crystal ball and really seen United sitting deeper than they usually did. I was shocked after watching them this season. I know that they've played LCL in Leicester City. It's a bit different. But I think when they go to Leicester Sports Village and they host Arsenal, they never really play this kind of terrible. I think it was quite hard to watch, to be honest. But the whole game was. So not a criticism of Man United because it did work in terms of preserving their clean sheet. Yeah, I think my read on it, obviously I asked Renée about it and she said something about like, you know, United come and press you quite aggressively in midfield and we thought we could get behind them.

18:06I think the way United defend, United are very difficult to play through centrally because they have their two centre-backs, Letizia and Dominic Janssen, both of whom I think are excellent players, excellent defenders. And then in front of them, they sit that double pivot, Ziguiotti and, God, I've gone blank on the other player, the Japanese midfielder. I was going to say Miyazawa.

18:33Jamie: Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. Because, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and they have that quite solid square on the edge of their box. And I think the thinking was, if we play Russo, who's a connector, she's just going to get swallowed up by those four players. But they do push their fullbacks on a little bit. And like you said, Celine Bizet is not really a fullback. Anna Sandberg's been having a very good season, but they do kind of commit a bit. And I think Arsenal thought if there's going to be space here, it's going to be in the channels. So I can see why they started Steiner. I think you make a very good point, though, about like, then you can't bring Steiner on and you're starting with both your number nines at the same time.

19:19And, you know, actually, this is a game where I absolutely think that Arsenal should have loaned Michel Ajemang out. But almost like these games where we start Russo and Steiner together, it would be nice to have Michel Ajemang to kind of throw on. I think she needs to develop beyond that super sub role but it would have been nice to have it and ultimately I think this is a game Jamie where just both defences were completely on top and United, I mean to your point I think they did sit in a bit and particularly late in the game and we'll come to that but one of the things they did as well and I wasn't surprised by this they started Melvin Mallard up front and left Elizabeth Turland on the bench now Elizabeth Turland scored a hat-trick on Thursday night.

20:07But you don't have to be a genius to see why they did that. They did it in the last game as well. They started Mallard through the middle. And again, I asked Mark Skinner about it and he said, yeah, Arsenal kind of let you play a bit centrally. So we thought we could get the ball in behind. I wrote the analysis piece today and there's like seven, eight times United dropped that ball over the top. But as much as I think United's defence got the better of Arsenal's attack, I think the same is true in reverse as well. And I think Katie Reid and Steph Catley were awesome in this game.

20:40Jamie: Yeah, certainly. I think that there's a moment in the first five minutes where United put that ball over the top and it's very, very shaky for Mallard. Sorry, from the Arsenal defence, Mallard looks really, really threatening. It's the first 30 seconds. It's the first thing they do. Yeah, yeah. And I'm thinking, I'm watching this and I'm thinking that's going to happen for 90 minutes straight. But I do think United take foot off the pedal quite early on in this game and they no longer start playing that as aggressively. I think they play a little bit too on the ground to try and get the ball to Mallard.

21:06Jamie: Katie Reid gets the better of her on the ground. I think that needed to be exploited more from a United point of view. If Arsenal are going to sit a little bit higher and really, really test you, and you've got someone like Steph Catley, who no offence, she's a fantastic defender, but speed right now at this stage of her career isn't as high as Melbourne Mallard's. I thought that that ball deeper and higher, more area was going to happen more. And I also was a bit worried because Daphna van Domslaar, Tim, I think you actually put it on social media, was sitting really, really deep. So I thought there's acres of space there for a very technically gifted player to poach.

21:35Jamie: But I do think United in this game take the foot off the gas. And then on the other side of it, I think Arsenal almost do the same thing in the second half is they kind of play to United. They let them get boxed in. And the only player that was really breaking that open was Olivia Smith. I think she actually did really well in the first 45 minutes. She's a player that can just get the ball and you know that she can make something happen. If she's not playing great football or if she's not getting the service she wants, she can make something happen. So, yeah, I think that both defences work to nullify the exact threats of these teams.

22:03Jamie: But I also don't think these teams kind of called on their biggest assets in order to break them down. I still think that Arsenal were a little bit toothless. And I think United took the foot completely off the gas and just thought we'll settle for a draw here and we'll just defend until our last end. Yeah, definitely. And I think, you know, we talked about the selection of Katie Reid on the first day of the season. And again, I was like, oh, is that about Isabel Goodwin? And she selected against West Ham. It's like, nope, it's not. And I think in this game, Jamie, you see why Katie Reid is being selected in this team.

22:39And Renee was asked about it afterwards. And she spoke about how, obviously, how Katie is in training. They decided not to send her on loan again. There's obviously a very good reason for that. and Renee was talking about her desire to learn and really study her game. But she was talking about how good she is in ground duels and I think a mistake we've all probably made, myself included, is like, oh, is she in because of height then? And that might be a bit of it, but I'm not even sure she headed the ball in this game. It was all one-on-one with Melvin Mallard. and like I said I did the analysis piece on this Katie Reid literally beat her every single time um upper body strength getting her body in the way I think Steph Catley did a very good job like communicating and organizing but this to me felt like a coming of age performance for for Katie

23:37Jamie: Reid completely wow it was I think this is the only positive I really really took from the game when I went to bed at four o 'clock in the morning I thought well at least Arsenal have a really really great centre-back for the next decade because she was immense. She was absolutely incredible. I think that exactly that, Tim. It's not – she doesn't even get beaten for pace. Like it's not even that. She's actually quite quick across the ground. But her ability to just wrestle a striker – Melvin Malad is a very physical, quick and technical player. She's a very good player that's often oversized. And I think we're going to see in the WSL this season maybe she's finally going to be that player that United were hoping for.

24:09Jamie: And I just think Katie Reid has set her back a few weeks because she was incredible. She was winning every single ground duel. But the biggest thing I noticed was she's winning these ground duels and then immediately she's claiming the ball back and playing it into the midfield and picking out a pass. Like she's not kicking the ball away. She's not winning the ground duel and then sending it long. She's looking up and she's finding a pass. And I think her composure on the ball is far beyond her years. So, yeah, I was so, so impressed. Yeah, yeah, just huge performance. and I can't believe BBC gave Valenzuela's choice, the player of the match, found that very, very bizarre considering Arsenal, I think, had one shot on target.

24:49And Arsenal, you know, they got a few shots off from the edge of the area in this game. Freedom Ornham had one, kind of 20 minutes to go. Caitlin Ford had one at the end of the first half and I think at the end of the first half, Arsenal were beginning to get on top a little bit. Olivia Smith cracks the bar, obviously, But then, you know, Van Domsala, I think she's had a shaky start to the season, I have to say, because really the only chance in this game, and Mark Skinner said this afterwards, where someone really should have scored, was Van Domsala kind of fumbles across. she does well to make a save and Katie Reid makes a block but that's really the only chance of the game and it was so close to the second time in a week that Van Domsala really nearly chucking one in the net and when I look back Jamie at the kind of those balls over the top Van Domsala didn't get one of them she didn't come out for any of them at all and particularly some of those early ones that went right into the penalty area, which actually I think put a bit more pressure on the centre-halves.

25:59I'm not hugely worried because I rate the quality of the player, but I think quite a slow start to the season for her.

26:07Jamie: Yeah, just a bit leggy. I think it's more like the mental aspect of it. She doesn't seem to be the first one to the ball. She's not really wanting to pick up them scraps because I do think there has to be a bit of instruction or direction in this team. You're playing United, they're going to go over the top all the time. They always do against Arsenal. It's not like it's a new tale where you can look at these players and say they might do this. They're going to do this and they have for a few seasons now since Alessio Russo's left basically. So I'm very confused as to why the goalkeeper's not playing a higher line.

26:35Jamie: Like you said though, Tim, I'm not completely worried. I think Daphne van Domplaas is a great keeper. But there's something about the first few weeks of the season. I just think she's been a little bit absent-minded and just made some silly errors that she wouldn't usually make. And I think we also need to remember this is a player that has played through a really big injury to get to a Champions League final, done the same for the Euros. She's probably not had a time to actually get her body right as well. So yeah, I'm hoping that does pick up because there's a lot of competitions. I think we know we're going to see other goalkeepers a lot this season because of how much football Arsenal's playing.

27:05Jamie: But yeah, I just hope this maybe washes over Van Domstel. It's not something I want to be like, oh, it's over, the end of the world, because I think she's a fantastic goalkeeper. But in this game, yeah, I was a bit confused because I think this is the perfect instance for a goalkeeper to just play a little bit higher and clean up the scraps. Yeah, definitely. And then we go into the second half and I think the pattern of the game is fairly similar. But this is, I think Manchester United are a really good team. I don't think they're a great squad, but I think they're a very good team. And I perhaps would have liked this game a bit deeper into the season.

27:42But there is also a context where they did play Thursday night. They have been playing all those qualifiers. They have been doing it with about 13 players. I think there was a real context for them in that. And Mark Skinner said as much afterwards, and they were managing players as well. So Celine Bizet is not even a right back, but she wasn't fit enough for 90 minutes. She had an Achilles issue and they got 70 out of her. And in terms of the benches, I was, you know, I was kind of looking at this game and after 60 minutes I was thinking okay it's a bit nip and tuck it's a bit tight but that's all right this is not an easy game we haven't won here since 2021 we don't have any right to come here and think we're gonna we're gonna thrash teams but the last half an hour and when we brought some of those players on and I could see that United were beginning to sit back I'll go into a minute why why I think maybe some things you know about the the situation was slightly against us but that last 20 minutes we were pinning them back but we just didn't really create anything with that pressure.

28:51Jamie: Yeah certainly I think that in the last 20 minutes it was actually quite hard to watch it was one of those like vintage Arsenal games where you watch them and you think oh they're definitely not going to score as much as they are probably the team knocking on the door a little bit more. I just think the substitutions and by no fault of of the players themselves I just think the substitutions do snuff a lot of momentum out of this game. I don't expect Olivia Smith to play 90 minutes right now, especially this weekend. But I think that when she gets drawn away from the game, it gives Anna Sandberg a lot more agency down that flank because I was getting really frustrated in the last 10 minutes because every time I looked up, it was Emily Fox that had the ball.

29:25Jamie: Like every time in this game, in the deep in the channel, it was Emily Fox that had the ball. She was pushing really high in the first 45 minutes and she is a phenomenal player, but sometimes her crossing, not the best. So I do feel like she was pressing high and she's not really the player that you want on the end of it. But in the last 10 minutes, Chloe Kelly on the halfway line is basically sat next to Emily Fox every time one of the two of them get the ball. And there's no pressing going on. And then Beth Mead is kind of isolated on the left wing. And Chloe Kelly is just playing so deep. So then you're in a situation where Alessia Russo is in the nine.

29:57Jamie: She's not had a great game. She's hardly touched the ball, to be honest. And then United, like you said earlier, Tim, they're squabbling her up. She's got no breathing room to make something happen. And I think that the wingers are just playing far too deep. Like Chloe Kelly is playing far too deep. It helps United set up easily because if they're going to set up in a low block in the last 10 minutes, they can do that when Arsenal's players are kind of wanting to play the possession football that's not worked for the rest of the game. So, yeah, I do think those substitutions almost killed the momentum.

30:23Jamie: I think as soon as Chloe Kelly came on, Arsenal didn't – it's not just her. I'm singling her out. But it didn't really look like anything was going to happen. I think Freda Mournem was almost the same. She had a really bright first 15 minutes when she came on. but then she kind of gets found out. United start to overrun the midfield because in this game, if you look at the United midfield, I don't think I saw Ella Toon really make any tangible impact on this game. So they weren't having a loud performance but now they've got someone like Ziggy Othiolme who's a really strong workhorse defensive midfielder, just wants to man-mark you out the game and win those tackles and those hard balls.

30:54Jamie: I think they've really put all the focus on that. So it then turns to Arsenal having to be creative and when a team's set up so well defensively like that, it's hard to do. But I do think Arsenal, again, just look toothless. I think they'll set up the wrong way in order to try and penetrate that back five it almost turned into. Yeah, definitely. I think the slight context, and I'm not using this as an excuse because, like I said, I don't think Arsenal really created enough. But the slight context here was I think we needed United to want to win the game more in that last 20 minutes. and I completely understand their position.

31:31They're in a situation where I think their aim realistically is to try and qualify for the Champions League again and they're trying to do it with 15 players and they've got Champions League group-phased games. I think Mark Skinner's been dealt a very tough hand by the club with the real failure to beef out that squad. They're really operating on a lot of good players but just not enough of them quite frankly and I think um after Thursday once it got 20 minutes to go I think they were aware they were going to get tired and I think they didn't like totally and utterly bank in and part they didn't do what Pep Guardiola did against the men's team put it that way but I think there was a context where they were a bit like okay it's 70 minutes they're going to be fresher than us they've got more on the bench than we have we're not going to kill ourselves trying to win this game.

32:29And actually I felt, and sometimes that happens quite early in the season as well, where teams don't know really where they are in the pecking order yet. Maybe in a couple of months it's like United are like, oh, we're fourth, we need to win this really, or something like that. Or maybe we're four points clear and we think, oh, actually a draw's not, you know, like those contexts haven't come alive yet. But I felt there was a bit of a context where I think, understandably, United were a bit like, we're tired, we'll probably just close this game out and finish it nil-nil. And Arsenal just didn't have a good answer to that, really, I don't think.

33:09And I guess, you know, before we close part one, I find it difficult because it's just too early in the season, really, to place what I think about this result. But how did you feel at full time?

33:22Jamie: Yeah, I think there's a lot of negativity and losing to United always fills me with negativity because you're just supposed to hate Manchester United. And I think going to Lee Sports Village for the last four seasons now, so frustrating. And you just think this is the year because of the squad depth. Like United's squad depth is not there, Arsenal's is. But at the end of the day, I don't think it's that big of a deal. It's still a point. If this game's a loss, there's some serious conversations that need to go on. It's just so hard in the WSL because there is only 12 teams. There's little games.

33:50Jamie: Any points drop is going to be really important in the title race. But can I be honest, after watching Chelsea-Leicester City three hours earlier than that, I'm not that stressed. I caught that game. I watched the second half in the press box and I think any other WSL team, Chelsea, don't win. Yeah. They didn't take a shot after the 56th minute. That is ridiculous for a team that have that many attackers. And I think that last season there were so many excuses in the latter stages of the season when maybe they weren't playing their best, they still get the three points. Listen, that's what champions do.

34:23Jamie: But I don't think that narrative can run right now. Like the form that Chelsea are in hasn't been exceptional and their performance against Leicester City was genuinely abysmal. And there's so many questions that need to be asked about how those players are being used right now. But at the end of the day, we can't say that about a team that have won the WSL six times in a row. This is just me being hopeful. However, I do think that every team is going to drop points this season. I don't think there's going to be a team like last season where Chelsea won every game and only drew a couple. I think that every team drops points and loses games.

34:50Jamie: this season so I'm excited and I don't think the result is going to affect the title race as much as as much as it maybe maybe it would have last season I just think it's open and I don't again watching Manchester City I know they pummeled Spurs but like Tottenham's defense just gave in I don't think the City have looked particularly impressive anyway so I think it's anyone's game right now and it's almost exciting that United and Arsenal are on the same points because at least they're both going to be contending and make the league exciting yeah definitely I I I tend to agree with that. I think there'll be, there is a trend for more points being dropped and I do think that'll continue.

35:26And I do, you know, I think LCL will have a little bit to do with that as well. So yeah, you know, I just find it after three games difficult to think about the title race context too much at all, to be honest. And if Arsenal lose it by a point, for example, this season, I don't think this is a game I'll look at. To be honest, I think there'll probably be points somewhere else that I will. Let's bring the first half to a close there. And we will come back in part two with your questions submitted on Blue Sky.

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37:36Okay, welcome back to part two of the Arsenal Women Asked cast on AskBlog.com with Tim Stillman and Jamie Spanger looking back at Sunday's 0-0 draw with Manchester United. So Jamie, I'm going to ask you this question. It's from at PDX Gunner. We talked a little bit about this in the first half about, I guess, what we feel and think about it. But this is really what Rene thinks and feels about it. and pdx gunner asks do you think or hope that yesterday signaled the end of the rustenius as part of the starting 11 we've seen it work as a substitution formation change but i fear that it suffers against fresh opponents who have a set defensive structure from the beginning of a match so you've talked in the first half about not really liking it i'm i'm kind of with you What about Rene, though?

38:27How often do you expect to see this?

38:30Jamie: Yeah, look, I think at the start of the season when Palova kind of came back to fitness and you have freedom on him, I expected this to maybe be a role that is only ever unleashed, so to speak, if there are injuries and there's personnel missing. And now that there are those players that can play in those attacking midfield spots, I thought maybe not. At the end of the day, this seems to be something that Rene really prefers against top sides. She does a lot against top sides. And I do think there are teams in this league where that is suitable against, like teams that play high lines. I think you want to do that.

39:00Jamie: In the starting 11, again, it's so hard not to be biased. But it's so hard not to be biased because I want to say no. I think that there's so much in that partnership. I'm not actually criticizing the partnership in itself because I do think there's an element of success when Russo is so good at holding up the ball in the 10. And she's such a good progressive passer. And Stena Blacksenius is so good in and behind. So I do think there's room for this partnership in this team when it deems fit. I just think starting the game, there's so many great players that I think could have made more of an impact in this game.

39:29Jamie: I think Vic Pilova is someone that maybe would have made more of an impact because she's a lot more creative and she can kind of break down those low blocks. I could understand Frieda Mornum, but, yeah, I just – I'm not a fan of it from the starting – from the outset. I think you're almost nullifying yourself. You're kind of kicking yourself because there's all these players that can make the same impact. I don't think this partnership is head and shoulders above the rest of them to be able to be the starting partnership against the top opposition. So I do think we'll see it again. I just still think it's not a great thing.

40:00I think we'll see it again. And I think we'll see it again. I don't think it's because Renee loves Russo in the 10 so much. I just think she wants her in the team. And if Steiner starts, she doesn't really want to drop Russo. and maybe the number 10 position is where she doesn't see a totally indispensable player and thinks, well, I can get them both in. And that's how I don't think it's about the partnership. I think it's about keeping Russo in the team. Do you have a question for me? I do.

40:31Jamie: This one's from at RibbonListener and it says, Mariona in the 10 has only been done a couple of times. Example against Chelsea last season, is it time that we start trying it again? And Clive at Clive B asked a similar question. This season, I feel like Mariona seems a little bit quiet compared to last year, where she often seemed to be the best player on the pitch. Do you agree? And if so, would you rest or move her to try and get her firing? yeah there was there was another one um as well from yeah from apple over 21 idea awfc what does your opinion lie on mariana in my opinion third game in a row she hasn't been to her standards but she has played a lot of football um i have to say i don't see this really um and that might be me because enough people have said it that they don't think mariana's been um right at it i don't think she's been our absolute dazzling best but I think she's been good I think she's been fine to be honest I think maybe I just I have my head around her in the double pivot now and I think I guess like one of the concerns I came into this season with was still that kind of oh we've vulnerable through the middle thing and I haven't seen that this season even in this game we we made no you know united were just kicking that ball in behind over and over and over again and we didn't change anything to accommodate that and our center backs dealt with it and i think i'm kind of i'm i just don't see it as an issue at the moment that like that part of it so some of my fears about a little marionna double pivot i think have just been unfounded basically and i've come to really, really like it.

42:19And I've come to think these guys went to Lyon and bossed it and won a Champions League final. And actually we dominate most of the games we play. And that's a lot of that's because we have such a high technical level in our midfield. Mariana, because she tries the probing pass, she loses it more than Kim Little. Kim Little is a much more conservative passer nowadays, but particularly compared to when she was younger. So I actually think the mix of Kim and Mariana is quite good in that respect. They balance each other out. But the thing about Mariana is even when she gives it away, she's all over you like a rash in a second and a half.

42:59So I can kind of live with it. And I just, yeah, I think Mariana's been fine, to be honest. So I'm not really expecting to see it change. And I have to say, I didn't hugely like her in the 10. We only saw it a couple of times, to be fair. but I was never hugely grabbed by it. I think this has just been the best position for her. I think she's looked good wide left, but there have been some flaws or issues about that, about what we really want a left winger to do. The 10 position, I do think you probably want her on the ball more. And I think we have other good 10s as well. And I think the reality is she gets into those spaces anyway.

43:44So personally, I don't really see it as an issue. And I've actually just come to really like her there. And I think I've just had to rewire my brain a little bit about what does Rene want from the midfield? And actually, I'm starting to see the vision, as it were. So yeah, I'm fine with it. I definitely think she's capable of a bit more. I think she's been 7 out of 10 when we know she can be 8 or 9, but I'm not hugely worried about it, to be honest. What about this one then from... Let's go with... No, actually, do you know what? I'm going to go with this one from Aidan Delory at Aidanhouse12.

44:33And Aidan says, Katie Reid must remain in the starting 11, even for the bigger games, even after Leah Williamson returns. Discuss, brackets, PS, I never said it has to be in place of Leah. Let's say this isn't going to happen, but let's say Leah Williamson was fit for Aston Villa. What would you do?

44:55Jamie: I think that I go back to Williamson and Catley. I don't think there's any point in looking at Katie Reid right now and saying she must play every game because Arsenal have made that mistake with young talent before, especially in the men's side. I just think, yeah, this is a player that's really developing and Leah Williamson and Steph Catley both bring so much to the game. I still think that Katie Reid's performances right now are better than Steph Catley's, but I don't think against a top team when they're playing an aggressive press, it's worth getting rid of and eliminating a left-footed outlet.

45:25Jamie: I think it's so important in a centre-back partnership. So right now I think Leah Williamson, a fully fit Leah Williamson walks in as the number one defender in this squad and Katie Reid is a player that is going to have that spot for a long, long time. It's similar to how I feel about the midfielders. It's like maybe Kyra Cooney Cross, there are waving flags right now that everyone's a little bit concerned about. But at the end of the day, I think that she has the central midfield position locked down for Arsenal once Kim Little retires. And I think there's a progression plan there. I feel the same way about Katie Reid.

45:51Jamie: I think that you don't need to rush this kind of player and say, play her because she's in form. Like at the end of the day, there has to be a bit of a nurturing process as well. She's 18, she's 19 in like two days. but doesn't make a difference is, yeah, I just think we need to nurture that pathway. But at the same time, I think you can trust her. And if Renee Slagas is going to say, I want to play Katie Reid against this higher position because of her ground dual ability and because of how quick she is at carrying the ball and how quick she is at tracking a striker, that's completely fine as well.

46:18Jamie: I think that you've got options that bring other things to this team. And the three centre-backs, they're all completely different in my opinion. I think they bring different skill sets. So maybe you just mix-match them based on opposition. But I think if there's an opponent where, or any of them could play. It's a really important game. I don't see why you'd mess with the Williams and Catley partnership until, yeah, you really have to. Yeah, I agree. I think that there may be a longer term question. Can Katie replay left centre-back alongside Leo Williamson? And that might be coming down the track, but I don't think we have to address it now.

46:51Do you have a question for me?

46:53Jamie: Yeah, this question is from Becca Darby. This attack felt a bit stale yesterday. day what do you think uh what do you attribute that to felt like the game was crying out for kaira kuni cross to break lines etc especially in the second half know that maybe would have compromised defense but is it worth the risk yeah i'd the attack

47:17i wouldn't quite say stay or put something close yeah like the the the three chances we have are shots from the edge of the box. I do think a lot of that just has to do with United are a good defensive team and they have a lot of quality in that central area to kind of stop you. And I do think I wouldn't be surprised if they end up with the best defence this season, particularly because they're not going to be able to rotate much. And I do think that, you know, occasionally they might deep block again and they might be able to do that um so i i do think there's a little bit of that to it i think maybe as well like there's been a lot of change in that that attack as well and i think we're going to have to do that anyway but um yeah like um maybe the partnerships weren't quite there i don't think like for example olivia smith and stina blackstenius have started together before and we've never really had like Russo as a 10 with Olivia Smith and yeah like I think there may be some like slight kind of partnership type stuff as well um it it yeah we didn't we couldn't break through them I do think that was largely because United you know defended very well and then became relatively conservative towards the end so but I guess like we didn't The two games under Rene Slagas we haven't scored are away at Chelsea and away at Manchester United.

48:54So, you know, maybe there's a bit of a question mark there against some of those games. But, you know, these are the hardest games as well. So it's kind of difficult to tell. But I think it was a mixture of things, to be quite honest with you. And I think, like, if we were doing a Manchester United podcast here, we might be asking the same thing. We might be saying, why didn't we really create that much? I just think it was one of those games where both defences were on top. And I think as much as I'm slightly disappointed in the attacking performance, given some of the openness we saw defensively last season, particularly in some of those away games where teams were kicking the ball over the top of our defence, and I think of Brighton and Aston Villa doing that and scoring a load of goals out of it, at least I'm quite pleased that not only did we not concede, we didn't really look like conceding from that tactic either.

49:49So I kind of take some of the positives from that. What about, let's have like a bit of a United question. And this is from Drew at Drew the DM. United finished third last season, qualified for the Champions League League phase and were top of the WSL going into this game. However, it was apparent they set up not to lose to Arsenal and had limited ambition to actually win the game. Are they a team that is over-performing or are they underselling themselves? The United players seem pleased about the draw, whereas Arsenal seem slightly gutted over dropping the points. So, yeah, let's have a little kind of look at Manchester United.

50:32What do you reckon about that?

50:33Jamie: I actually love talking about Manchester United. That's not even a joke. I think they are a fascinating team, I have to say. I think I've gone to like Mark Skinner's press conferences for like many months straight. I haven't missed one in so long. And now that I'm in Australia, they're even more convenient because they're at 8.30am. So they're at 5.30pm for me. It's quite lovely. So yeah, I do love a chat with Mark Skinner. I think the biggest thing with United right now is they do undersell themselves. I think that there is a lack of ambition from the top. So I think that the club in their forefronted media, like if they're going and speaking to people, they're almost happy to be the underdogs and they want to be this team that, oh, we don't have a lot of resource and, you know, we're playing in the Champions League and we're coming third in the WSL.

51:15Jamie: And I think that is what they like to show externally. But I think internally, this is a squad with a lot of ambition. And I think that they rightfully have a lot of ambition. Like they've made some great signings over the window. Jess Park, I think is a phenomenal signing. Ziggyatta Olmo is exactly what they've been crying out for. And then Fridolina Rolfo, it's a big name they'll bring into the squad. So I think it's hard for United over the last few years. There's been so much external pressure on them because Sergio Ratcliffe is just hopeless. And like Mark Skinner, as much as everyone is like, oh, he's a yes man.

51:44Jamie: I don't really know why we expect him to say, I hate my boss because it's never going to go down well. And I think that... I think he's been more forthcoming this year though, hasn't he? He's been a bit more frank. Yeah. He's basically said like, we need to spend way more money if we're going to compete in the Champions League. And in the winter window, if we don't make those signings, we're going to fall short. And I think that's maybe why in four or five months United might be kicking themselves because I do think in this game they had the ability to win and I think that they did maybe, they played a very good defensive game, but I think there's opportunity for them to win this game on the counter-attack and get the ball in and behind.

52:19Jamie: I don't think they were proactive enough in that respect. So I think if you look at United over the last even two years, in my opinion, but particularly last season, I think Mark Skinner gets a lot out of this squad tactically that maybe we don't give him credit for because he does get results against teams. They beat City last season. They come close to Chelsea almost every single year. It's never a far margin. And they take points off Arsenal. So this is a team that I think are going to compete. I do want to also note that last season, I think that Manchester City's massive injury crisis fall off with Gareth Taylor helped United a lot.

52:51Jamie: Because at the end of the day, when that league finished, the gap actually wasn't that big from third to fourth. And United did get lucky that City fell off. So I don't think this is a team with the depth to actually win big things or compete in the league and win league titles. However, I think that for what they have right now, they're tactically impressive. They impress me. I think they adapt to opponents well. I think they really come up against opponents and know when it's their turn to dismantle someone. They're really good at getting big victories against lesser teams, which makes their goal difference well.

53:18Jamie: You look at, like, they beat Leicester City, absolutely dominated them opening weekend 4-0. Chelsea couldn't get a shot on Leicester City after the 56 minutes. So I think we need to give United far more tactical credit than we actually do. but at the end of the day their depth is nowhere there I don't think it's strong enough to be able to compete and that comes from the higher ups and I think that that is something they need to address in the winter window so yeah all in all I still think they'll kick themselves because once they run out of depth a couple of injuries they're in trouble those are the games they're going to have to start winning in more precarious circumstances when there's a lot more football going on so maybe this was their time to really go for it yeah I think it's simple I think they of like four 15 good players they need 20 that's that's where i think they are and i think that that was a context in this game as well uh do you have a question for me i do this one is from rose shellin and then another one from pullover 21 awc both similar so rosa said hey my two favorite podcasters uh fox has played three four 90s with no clear backup does this worry you seen some sloppiness unusual from her as well and then pullover 21 awc has said do you worry if jenna leaves that puts more pressure on Foxy and McCabe as it only leaves with one clear cover for both of them still worried about no clear right back cover yeah a bit to be honest like we know Taylor Hines can play right back um but that's still I think I understand that signing more now and the thing I understand I think about that signing is that Renee is just not really interested in Jenna Neiswanger as a player in the squad, which I wrote about this in the newsletter today, so I won't rehash it too much.

55:00Just for me, I don't look at this as player treatment angle or what a player deserves or anything like that, because I don't know. The question I ask is why on earth did we sign? Why on earth was money spent on a player that clearly the manager it just does not rate or see as part of the squad so taylor hines i think it's clear has been brought to be a left back mainly and yeah that does leave a short of cover at right back it's really weird because the right back position there is i was reading something back um that i'd written a couple of years ago i think it was after i went back and i read the analysis piece i did after we lost to Liverpool because I wrote a lot about Matt Beard in it actually that's why I went back and looked at it and in that game we played Chloe Lacasse as a right wing back with a back three because Noel Maritz was injured and so was Laura Wienreuter and it's so weird since we had that situation where we had Maritz and Wienreuter and they've both kind of come out of the club and we brought Emily Fox and I think the summer of 2023 Jonas really wanted another right back but it just didn't quite happen and I think they looked at um I think maybe they looked at um I've forgotten the name of the Swedish right back who I think went to play in the NWSL who was at is it Lundqvist um I've got I think they had a look at her and like they wanted a right back and they didn't get one and then Emily Fox came a few months later but it's weird since that Maritz Wienreuter a situation we just haven't had two right backs again and and i do wonder about that yes like because it did seem to me to be quite an obvious gap in the squad and what i'd kind of been told probably off the back of the january window this year was that um there was an acceptance that buying an out and out right back was going to be difficult when you've got emily fox there because no one wants to do that job and that they were going to have to buy a player who could maybe play a few positions and right back is one of them and it kind of looks like taylor heinz was that player but which i kind of get but if she's going to be left back cover and jenna nicewonger is in the in the bomb squad basically like she didn't travel to this game again they always bring a spare player to the game and it was an eka borba um they brought i i kind of understand that because there's a player you really want to replace on the bench it's probably a goalkeeper first and foremost but like she's absolutely in the bomb squad so really Arsenal only have three full backs again and I don't really know what they'd do if Emily Fox got injured like I guess it would be Taylor Hines but then would Jenna Niswonger get a look in then or would like we play one of the goalkeepers at left back before we play her.

58:01I don't, the fullback situation does confuse me a little bit and it feels like it hasn't really been set for a while. And, you know, we haven't seen any of Taylor Hines at right back in a competitive game. We saw about 20 minutes of it in pre-season. Maybe it happened in the behind closed doors games, but it really does feel like there is, I think it's the one place in the team I look at and I go, I literally don't know what we'd do if there was a long-term injury there. And given that's been the situation for a while, I am quite surprised it wasn't addressed in another way. To be honest, it's the one part of this squad, I guess maybe the midfield double pivot, letting Lievolte go, but I do think there's players there to cover that.

58:51It's the one area of the squad I look at and I just think, I don't really know what's going on there I don't know why why was Jenna Nyswonger bought at all when clearly the manager doesn't rate her what like why wasn't that money spent on someone who can play right back there's there's just yeah there's a gap in my kind of knowledge and understanding that I have to admit definitely like love Emily Fox as a player I think she's one of the best and most important players in the team again I haven't personally seen much of a dip in performance but she's playing a lot of football and yeah it's something that slightly concerns me definitely.

59:32Let's do one more each. How about this one from at Liam Underwood AWFC which I suppose focuses a bit more on the reaction to the game. Are some fans overreacting over the drop points when sometimes in football against the big teams it becomes cagey and it's a good thing we can rely on defense in those types of games or maybe we aren't as fluid or dynamic as we can be at our best. So I guess it's kind of like we weren't at our attacking best but we didn't concede either. Like how far, you know, does that give you any kind of solace? I don't know if that's the right word.

1:00:21Jamie: Yeah, I think in terms of the reaction to dropping points to United, I don't think it's the end of the world. I don't think we go against Chelsea or Manchester City and they almost play this defensive, you can call it a defensive block. I think this is a high-quality defence that is sitting a bit deeper and really frustrating Arsenal. We've seen that Arsenal have overcome that issue when it comes to lower-quality teams. They dismantled LCL and they dismantled West Ham. So I think this is just a hard fixture. And at the end of the day, you're going away to United. If this happens at Emirates Stadium, it's a lot different because you still have to return to Lee Sports Village.

1:00:53But they've dropped points there three, four seasons in a row now.

1:00:56Jamie: So I don't think it's something that you really need to call home about. I think this Arsenal squad and the way they're performing and playing, constructing play and kind of dictating tempo from the back right now, this is a team that is well-versed to play against Chelsea and Manchester City right now. I don't worry about those sides and I also don't think those defences are going to sit back and really defend. Although Sonia Bonpastor has kind of been doing that with Chelsea in a back five right now. I think she's just preempting playing Barcelona and it's giving her nightmares. But yeah, so I think that there is a lot to take from how positive the defence was because they were under pressure.

1:01:27Jamie: Like United did ask questions and it's a very, very good attacking line and it's rotated. They bring Elizabeth Turland on. She also can't make an impact. So yeah, I think there's positives to be taken from it. At the end of the day, you want to win three points in the WSL because there's not many games in the season. You want to win every game. However, I think that in terms of dropping points, United aren't going to be competing for their title. it's more just losing points to Chelsea again, which is frustrating because they've not played well. They're two points clear. When will it end? So yeah, I think that there's positives to take, but I also think fans are allowed to be frustrated because you expect this team to win because they've been playing so well.

1:02:02Yeah, yeah, yeah. Co-sign all of that. Like I think of the games from last season, the one that worried me most was Brighton. I was like, oh, okay. And I haven't seen any real sign of that. So I do take a bit of solace from that. But yeah, I'm with you as well. Like we want to win the league. We've all said it's time and you don't get to drop a lot of points. So I get that as well. Shall we finish with a question for me from you?

1:02:30Jamie: Yeah, this one's a bit of a what if, but I think there's something to speak about. It's from Dan Merker and it says, what if anything, do you think would have been different in terms of personal usage or domestic results thus far in the season if Arsenal had European qualifying to deal with, which of course, as European champions, they don't. Because you mentioned earlier, Tim, I think maybe we can also spin this in the way of United are in a very competitive game season. They have been longer than Arsenal. Do you think that has an impact or is that beneficial? Yeah, I think it is one. And again, Mark Skinner addressed this a little bit.

1:03:04Like Mark Skinner said, he was expecting Arsenal to be more aggressive, actually. And I think that's that's a fair comment I think they were expecting a bit more from Arsenal and he said particularly because we had a game on Thursday but then he kind of said actually sometimes that can work in your in our favour like because we had a game on Thursday and you know perhaps we're a little bit warmer um for the task it's such an odd um period of the season this beginning of the season when you're not in the qualifiers because you have one game a week and I kind of think that can be a blessing and a curse.

1:03:39I think if you wanted absolute ideal, you'd probably drop one midweek game in here somewhere. But obviously the midweek games are Conti Cup this week and we're not in that either. And I'm very pleased we're not. But perhaps dropping a midweek game in here somewhere to get that. And I think there is an element of that in some of the selections as well where players are coming out of pre-season their conditioning and all of that. So I don't think it would have been the end of the world, really, for this period of the season. But I've seen it happen both ways. Like when Jonas first joined in 2021, we played Chelsea and Man City in two of the first three games and we beat them both.

1:04:28And I think a lot of that was because we were warm. And particularly, I think it was off the back of an Olympic summer. and when we played Chelsea they rested a load of players and we played Man City when they had a new manager and we really looked on fire but then of course we've seen it the other way where like was it Leicester last season off the back of one of the Hecken games um yeah the one now yeah yeah that really made me want to scratch my eyes out um and then like you know the year before like losing to Liverpool you know I kind of think it depends on what which fixtures you have I think if you have big fixtures it probably works against you but if you have like some of those more manageable winnable games it can probably work for you so I look at United I kind of think maybe at this stage when they played Leicester and LCL they're probably on fire a little bit but let's talk again in November and December type thing.

1:05:31But I don't think it massively affected Arsenal last season in terms of fatigue or anything. I mean, they won the bloody thing. So they went right to the end. So, yeah, I think really, yeah, like a midweek WSL game somewhere here would have been nice. I think a nice winnable one. Yeah, somewhere in there. And actually, I think we saw last season how that helped a bit. Do you remember we had that Leicester home game just before Lyon?

1:06:02Jamie: Yeah. And actually we quite strategically put that game there a few days before, like almost as like a bit of a warm-up. And yeah, I don't think it would have been massively different, to be honest, but it might have helped. I think it just depends what type of form you're in, who you get. I think there's just so many variables in that situation. but I'm glad we weren't in the qualifiers. Like, give me that choice all day long, particularly off the back of a summer tournament. I think that those are so much harder as well. But there we go. We also had the Champions League draw, didn't we, on Friday?

1:06:42Maybe, you know, I guess really it's all eyes are on pot one and who you get out of that. Lyon at home, Bayern Munich away. You know, got Real Madrid. again like some of these teams are a little bit familiar um but perhaps the pot three teams 20 and leuven um as well and we get those in december and the way the way the fixtures have fallen are kind of weird because we get leon off the back of man city we get buying off the back of chelsea but then in december we get both the pot three teams it feels a little bit lopsided but what did you

1:07:14Jamie: make in closing of the champions league draw yeah uh leon at home buying away two games that we lost so that's not great. However, I think that it's going to be okay. The FC20 one is the one that is really funny. I think it was Liberty Simons put it on social media that Jill Ward has played against Arsenal every season since leaving Arsenal and we just can't shake her. God, we cannot shake Jill Ward. So that would be interesting. I think the pot three teams, yeah, they're still good teams but yeah, generous. The draw I don't think is easy though. I do think you look at Chelsea getting Barcelona again and you laugh, but otherwise their draw is quite lighthearted.

1:07:53Jamie: I think that Lyon at home, I still believe, although this Lyon team I think is a different beast this season and they will be a different beast under a very, very competent manager in Jonathan Grealdez and a massive on, yeah, a lot of big new signings as well. So that's one to watch. I think Bayern away, I do think that Arsenal can beat Bayern Munich. So, yeah, I'm interested. I think there's some good away days there as well for the travelling fans. So have fun in November in Munich because, thank God, it's not in Oktoberfest again, because I can imagine that was awful last year. Yeah, that's going to be my ninth visit to Munich.

1:08:25It's great that the men's and women's team always draw Bayern Munich away. You know, great city, not complaining that much. But yeah, Lisbon in October as well, booked up for that. I think we did quite well there the last time we played there in the Champions League from memory. I think there's a song about it actually But yeah, I'm really looking forward to Lerven before Christmas as well So yeah, some good trips in there A bit of the familiar, a bit of the less familiar But Jamie, we've done an hour and seven minutes On Manchester United 0-0, Arsenal 0-0 And a few other things to be fair Kind of thrown in Thanks as ever for joining us and for your insights Thank you Tim

1:09:11Jamie: Looking forward to next week The kickoff times guys I know that you're all concerned about my wellbeing, less bad. So I'll be more bright and ready to speak. Yeah. 9pm your time, isn't it? So it's going to be 12 noon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Match day going fans, but great for Jamie Spangler sitting on a couch. That's right. And so we will have a podcast for you after that game against Aston Villa this weekend. And then there'll be, no, there isn't an international break. It's Man City away after that, isn't it? Yeah, I'm getting all my weeks mixed up at the moment. So yeah, we'll come back with a podcast looking back at the Aston Villa game, probably record it Sunday or Monday, somewhere around that.

1:09:52Sorry, this one's been slightly late. Like I said, got back from Lee, you know, relatively late Sunday night. Lots of people banging and making noise in my house at the moment. So I couldn't go during the day. But thanks so much for joining us as ever. And we will speak to you next week.

1:10:14Thank you.

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