Arsenal Women Arsecast Episode 142: Points shared in contentious Chelsea clash

0:13Hello and welcome to the Arsenal Women Askedcastcastcast on Askedblog.com with me your host Tim Stillman looking back on Saturday's breathless controversial

0:24insert expletive here. 1-1 draw against Chelsea, which felt pretty breathless, certainly by the end, by the second half. And there's a lot to get to in this game, both in terms of the football and some of the stuff that perhaps wasn't so much about the football or not so much about the football players. And here to kind of break the game down with us, as ever, is Jamie Spanger. Jamie, has your head successfully returned from Mars yet? I can't confirm if it's officially returned, Tim. Unlike the UK, it is Monday morning right now, so I've had two nights to sleep it off. So I'm feeling less aggrieved.

1:02I'm no longer seething as much as I was. I woke up yesterday morning because obviously the game finished at around like 1.30 a.m. Oz time. I woke up on Sunday morning and I was the worst person alive. But I've recovered a little bit and, yeah, no, let's get into this game. Yeah, we're recording. This will come out on Monday. We're recording it on Sunday evening, and I have to say, I know we've got some listeners and some friends of mine from the good city of Kansas who are Kansas City current fans, and we're recording shortly after NWSL playoff, where Kansas City, for those of you who don't know, current, they finish 21 points clear at the top of the NWSL.

1:41They go into the playoffs, and they've just lost to 8th place Gotham, and that's it and it's one leg and it's a last minute goal so um yeah our friends from kansas sorry guys that that must really suck but there were some things about this this game jamie that we're going to discuss that sucked as well um but we'll get to those as ever let's start with the starting lineup we knew before the game well i say we knew before the game managers tend to keep stuff quiet around injuries. Actually, Renee didn't this time. She was unusually kind of forthright. So four of the players who missed last weekend back in the squad, I was expecting that.

2:23I do think there are a few of those who probably could have made the Leicester game, but were saved for this game. But Renee did confirm that Kim Little was going to be out, and that's probably going to be the case, certainly for the next two games. I wouldn't be surprised if up until the next international break. So Katie Reid wasn't in the squad. I think that makes Lotta starting at centre-back not a surprise. But I think the two things everyone had their eye on would Steena start again, as she did against Leicester, and who would come into that second midfield spot without Kim. Steena did start and it was Victoria Pilova who came into the double pivot on this occasion.

3:02What was your opinion of the starting lineup, Jamie? Yeah, mixed emotions, to be honest, like Lotta starting his best case scenario. I think even if Katie Reid's fit, if Lotta's fit in this game, I'd probably opt for her just because of the nature of like Kat McCurry is very physical. She's also, she moves around a lot. So I was very happy to see her in the starting lineup, regardless of the fitness of other players. Victoria Ploba was obviously the big one that I think raised a lot of questions when the lineup came out. And I think we saw that transpire into the way maybe a few fans expected in the opening 20 minutes.

3:32I just thought it was so much risk. Like if Stina Black-Sinnius is starting and Alessio Russo is maybe playing a deeper midfield role, sorry, a higher midfield role, a deeper second striker role, there's a lot of risk in that midfield. And I was very nervous with how that's going to play out because Chelsea recently, they really try to get teams on the transition because they're less strong in possession as they used to be. So this, yeah, this made me nervous, very nervous because a double pivot of Mariona and Victoria Plova, and then also add a natural striker in that third midfield position is, yeah, that was a risky and nervous moment.

4:04Yeah, I was actually, when I say okay, because it was basically his choice between Victoria Pulover and Kyra Cooney-Cross, I didn't have a strong opinion on who I thought it would. I did think Kyra might get the nod. I just think every other midfield combo we have, other than Mariana and Kim Little is either unproved or under-tested. So I kind of just thought it feels like a coin flip and probably not in a good way, to be honest. And it still feels a little bit like that. I think I wasn't surprised at all to see Steiner start. I thought that that would happen. I did think actually having Russo a bit deeper without Kim, like Russo's ball security is very, very high, whereas perhaps higher than like Frieda Mornham she's a higher touch player and all of that I thought without Kim having Rousseau deep it made a lot of sense but I also think Jamie we should touch on the Chelsea starting line up as well we don't usually look so much at the opposition but I felt that the Leicester game was a bit of a dress rehearsal and Leicester play a kind of 3-4-3 which is usually what Chelsea do but they didn't on this occasion and I asked Renee Slagers whether she was surprised about it she said a little bit she said look we prepared for a back three and a back four but we thought they'd go with a three I asked Sonia Bonpastor about it I actually asked her you know did you watch the Leicester game and maybe think actually maybe we shouldn't do that she didn't say that she said that basically she didn't want to get pinned back into a back five and she wanted to match Arsenal in midfield.

5:49So I felt like, and I felt this was borne out in the first 10 minutes, maybe Arsenal were caught by surprise by Chelsea's starting line-up. So what did you make of them going to a back four? And perhaps as well, Ellie Carpenter and Sandy Baltimore, both on the bench, that struck me as a kind of, you know, we don't want Steiner getting down the sides of us this time. Yeah, I thought this was like, it was funny watching the reaction, because when you have two fan bases in a game like this their lineups come out and the reaction is just like is massive and Chelsea everyone was very scared but they were like they were very people about this lineup and I think I my immediate thought was this is Sonia Bonpastor for seeing what Renee Slaggers wants to do in this game and I think that she did it really well in the opening 20 minutes especially because yeah like you said there was no room in and behind for Arsenal but also Ellie Carpenter and Sandy Baltimore are two of the most attacking fullbacks in the world not even the league and against teams like lower down in the table, they can really, really exploit those channels.

6:49But against this team, I completely agree with Sonia. Like they're going to have to sit back and they're going to have to cover territory. And that almost makes Chelsea quite answerless going forward. So I thought this was interesting. And I think when you partner it with the fact that like their wing is someone like Alyssa Thompson and Johanna Riddinkaner, they're so fast. Chelsea automatically had extra security in those channels where Arsenal didn't because they can track back at such a great pace. So I thought this was really good management from Sonia Bonpastor. And I don't think Chelsea fans agreed with that.

7:15But I do think Arsenal were completely caught off by this. And it's not necessarily defensive-minded, but it's a more defensive setup from Chelsea. And I think something maybe Arsenal didn't think about with this midfield as well was Alessia Russo playing maybe a higher midfield role. She doesn't do it as well when there's a really natural kind of anchoring six in the opposition's midfield. And I think Kira Walsh plays a really big part in this opening 20 minutes, just picking up what Arsenal can't kind of gather. So yeah, I thought Chelsea kind of set up this game to put it away in 30 minutes.

7:44and then they absolutely didn't do that. However, it looked like they were going to. Yeah, definitely. I mean, of the first seven shots that happened in the game, six of them are Chelsea's. They hit the post on two minutes. They do take the lead. They hit the bar after that. It really could and probably should have been a little bit like last season where they scored twice in the first 10 minutes actually last season and it was kind of similar to that. And I mean, you know, Kanarid, the way they were kind of bringing Alyssa Thompson in off that kind of left flank, standing her behind Arsenal's double pivot.

8:22That's really where that goal comes from. They do something similar when Kanarid hits the post. So when Alyssa Thompson scores, it's not a big surprise. It's been coming, but it felt to me, Jamie, as well, like not only were Arsenal caught by surprise by perhaps the numbers, that Chelsea had in midfield, I think they benefited massively from Arsenal not having a natural defensive player in midfield. Certainly. I think that's another thing Chelsea got right in this opening 20 minutes is they inverted their wingers so much and overloaded those centre-backs. And this goal comes from the fact that it's not the centre-backs fault at all, but they don't really know whether to press Alyssa Thompson or not because you expect the midfielder to be there.

9:03And Alyssa Thompson is a brilliant footballer and she's absolutely rapid. So I can understand she's going to split open midfields when she does that. But I think Arsenal's defending in this piece is pretty unacceptable. Like, I don't think the pivot is at all aware of the run and they kind of just like let it happen. And as she takes the shot, there's like four or five Arsenal players kind of sat staring at Alyssa Thompson. So I thought this goal was, yeah, it's a great goal. Like the finish is excellent. But I think that from an Arsenal perspective, this was disheartening because that was the one issue I think a lot of fans had when the lineup came out.

9:32Like, how is the midfield going to deal with the pace in the transition if Chelsea overload it? And then they do exactly that. So, yeah, I was really feeling negative when that goal went on, not just because of conceding, but because I thought if this keeps happening, Chelsea can put four past Arsenal in the first 45 minutes. Yeah, they should have scored at least two in this period. I think that would have been a fair reflection of what was happening. But I think there's an element of maybe Arsenal getting a handle on it. But I also felt, Jamie, a really big undercurrent in this game was the table.

10:05and I felt Chelsea's buffer coming into this game meant they didn't have to win and Arsenal had to win and I felt that that dynamic was unavoidable throughout this whole game even to the point as much as Chelsea's selection helps them to dominate and create lots of chances early on I still do think there was an element of a draw's fine for us and we don't want to open ourselves up and so on one hand I would say tactically mentally I'd give credit because Arsenal do come back into the game they do start to and and you know they create situations maybe rather than like big chances but I do also think that if Chelsea really had to win this game I do wonder how this might have played out I don't know if you felt the same.

11:00I completely agree with that. I completely agree. And I think especially in the second half, but in this like opening 45 minutes, Chelsea don't really drop their heads when they're making mistakes or missing chances. And I feel like this game had that to it before it even started. And it was obvious that Chelsea can take less risks. They can come in with a back four and just kind of work possession. They can allow Nat Bjorn to like hobble around on a hamstring for a little while and get better because if they need to sub, they need to sub. But I just feel like this game for Arsenal and it did help them in the second half, I thought but in the opening 30 minutes it felt like okay it's either disaster or bust and I do think that like Chelsea were able to kind of manage that momentum however I like it's frustrating as a fan like of the league it's frustrating because they they can sit back because no one else can come at them right now and I know Manchester City are now point clear but like they lost to Chelsea in the opening round so this is a team I think that Sonia Bonpastor doesn't get enough credit for being able to manage the situation and manage her players.

11:58However, I also think it has to catch up to them this season because I don't think I've seen this from Chelsea in a long time, just kind of a little bit of complacency. And whether some people may look at that, and this could be a biased lens because some people may look at it and say Chelsea entered the second half of this game and they sit back a little bit or they take less risk because they know it's game management, Arsenal's a good team, they want to defend well. Other people may look at it and be like, that's frustrating because Chelsea could have won 3-0 in the first half alone if they wanted to.

12:26So I do think, yeah, Arsenal had to go into this game and throw everything at it, whereas Chelsea had the ability to game manage. And I think they did it well, like credit where credit's due, but it's just frustrating for the spectacle. Yeah, definitely. But maybe it was just because the first 15, 20 minutes was so bad. I won't say enthused, but I really enjoyed doing the vlog for these games with Jason, our videographer, because it gives me a really accurate representation of what I was feeling at the time when I go back and watch them. And I kind of said at halftime, Chelsea are going to sit on this and they've got Macario and Thompson.

13:05That's a counter-attacking front too right there. They didn't have Agui B. Jones available. I'm dubious as to whether she'd have started anyway. Actually, I think they really picked a counter-attacking kind of team. And I said at halftime, this is going to fall into a pattern. Arsenal have to come and chase this. Chelsea will probably sit on it. And it just felt to me like I felt next goal wins at that stage. Obviously, it didn't pan out like that because it finished 1-1. But what was your kind of feeling at halftime? Yeah, at halftime, it was a bit of both because I do think Arsenal get a little bit of a hold on the tempo of this game in the last 10 minutes.

13:46I think that the first 20 minutes are probably like the most angry I've felt watching this team in a long time. But I do think they get a handle on it a little bit. Like they start to find areas. I think that the biggest thing in the first 20 minutes was it felt like every player, like you looked at that, like the pitch and the team were just like no one was in position. It felt like everyone was kind of being chased. They were chasing their markers. They were getting pulled away from their zones. I think that the only players like holding their space as like were probably lots of Wobbenmoy and Steph Catley.

14:13And even then, like I think lots of Wobbenmoy was probably the one doing it the best. So I think in this game, what happens in the last 10 minutes of the first half is Arsenal settle. They know their role and they kind of just remember, OK, like just settle into the role and settle into the game tempo. Because at the end of the day, it's at the Emirates. Like if this game is going to go your way, it's going to be helpful that the crowd's there. If it's at Stamford Bridge, it's a little bit hard. So I do think like second halves and all or whatever we call them now, I had that feeling that they were going into the game.

14:40And I do think that that was my feeling at halftime. I thought, no, that they can come back from this because I do think Chelsea are going to sit off and Chelsea historically likes to sit off in second half. So I wasn't like counting us off, but at the same time, I wasn't very positive. Yeah, and sometimes I feel like these things aren't just tactical as well. I feel like sometimes in the big games where momentum swings both ways, sometimes you need a player to do something to force a momentum shift. And for me, I do want to talk about her, particularly because of her first half performance. For me, that player was Caitlin Ford.

15:17And Caitlin usually has a very, very good game against Chelsea. I have to think a bit more deeply about why that is. But there's something about this game that really suits her. And I think that first time she roasts Lucy Bronze, sometimes it gets the crowd up, it gets the players up. and sometimes it's not like a great tactical shift or repositioning. Sometimes your winger just like says, I'm taking that. And we saw Caitlin do it last season in this fixture. She scores actually at the end of the half. And that was a, you know, excuse my language, listeners, that was a fuck you goal against Chelsea.

16:00And she was doing something very similar here. and I felt most of the hope that I felt at half time came from Caitlin, basically. Certainly, couldn't agree more. I think Caitlin Ford is just excellent across her entire game time in this game, but I think in the first 45 minutes, like you said, Tim, this exact fixture last season, she was the only player in the pitch that looked like she was playing with heart. And I think it's different this time around because I don't think she's the only one playing with heart. I just think she's the only one that kind of has a grapple on, you know, the actual game state and what her role is and what she needs to do.

16:35And I think she it's funny because I think that Caitlin Ford is probably Arsenal's best asset against Chelsea because I think she can beat both their fullbacks comfortably and she has historically. So I think that she's a player in this fixture that you do rely on. And it's funny that Chelsea maybe didn't pay extra attention to her. But that does go to show there's threats all over the pitch from an Arsenal perspective. I think that the thing that Caitlin Ford like proved in this fixture was actually a wider team thing because last season she scores no one celebrates with her it was like dire it was like this is the end of the Jonas Idoval era this team don't want to be here they're like heads are in their hands at full time obviously you've lost but their heads felt like they were in their hands at the start this time around it felt like Caitlin Ford was kind of like leading a ship and just telling people to hurry up a little bit and they were ready to play but they just they weren't quite at her like tempo yet so yeah I think just Caitlin Ford is such a player that's just continually continually undervalued and I like I've still seen this week on social media people be like oh we need to upgrade on Caitlin Ford and I just don't really know like why that is because I do think she raises the level at Arsenal on multiple occasions especially against the big team so yeah from this game I think I got from Caitlin Ford's perspective was she's doing so well to read the game state she knows when to come in the channel she knows when to chop Lucy Bronze and cut it back there were a couple times in the first half she held on to the ball too long and I think that that could have created a few more chances for Arsenal but the biggest takeaway I got from Caitlin Ford was yeah she kind of led the team whereas last season she was the only one out there so that made me feel okay there is positives in the fact that this team is still playing and they still want to win but they're just slow to start in this fixture yeah there's there's one point where she has the ball on the edge of the box and she just takes an extra touch that I don't think she needs but I think one of the reasons probably she she can be slightly undervalued is like she's such a good dribbler but it's like it it's not it's not an aesthetically pleasing dribbling style it it is like it's her kicking and screaming basically like i am getting past you it's so intense that's i think that's her kind of superpower is her intensity and that that really translates into a dribbling style because it's just like i i will run through you I will run through flesh and bone to get through you.

18:46And it's not like step overs and elasticos and stuff like that. But yeah, she definitely brought the fight. However, beginning of the second half, again, I think Chelsea have the first three, maybe four shots of the half. However, the big talking points after the game and this dominated the press conference was about refereeing decisions, about VAR. We can come on to the other decisions later, all of which I think are borderline or explainable. But Arsenal get a corner. Steena Blackstenius, the ball hits her on the thigh. She lashes it in the top corner. We have a good minute of celebration. And in fact, apparently some of the broadcasters, it took them several minutes to notice or be told that the goal had been ruled out.

19:41and in a stadium, I think you get a feel for when something might have happened, right? So Russo's goal, I'm looking straight at the assistant referee. Frieda's goal, I looked immediately at the assistant referee because in your mind, you're like, that could be offside. I did not think for one second that anything had taken place here. nobody protested nothing in my mind went oh I wonder if that hit her like you know particularly in a stadium you really get a sixth sense for when something might have happened and I just cannot believe this decision the other ones we can argue the bones out of and I think are tough decisions I cannot understand what has gone through the referee's mind here.

20:30Oh it was horrendous it was actually diabolical officiating like I had people messaging me from England to be like what's the reason like in the stadium and I was like well the broadcast doesn't have a absolute clue what's going on like they still think it's a goal and I just think this is like this is actually diabolical like refereeing this is horrendous and it's so frustrating when like games are on a nice edge and when you just look at the wider like implications like the league is on a nice edge like Arsenal get three points in this game and the WSL becomes all the more exciting like they they lose this game and it is they basically writes them out a draw does nothing for Arsenal and maybe a little bit for Chelsea and it just ruins the spectacle and I think this I have no idea and I've seen Chelsea fans try to justify that shouldn't have been a corner and watching it back it is it's a corner it is a corner yeah I don't understand where that's come from at all like it comes off Lucy Bronze's knee it's like a dink dink dink off Lucy Bronze's knee even that though like as football fans if you're really justifying this decision by the fact that it might have not been a corner that's ridiculous because you look at minuscule calls and you look at like big macro calls this is a macro call it's a corner it's like is it a throw-in is it not a throw-in if that's affecting your game your team is the problem not the officiating if the goal is being ruled out then that is absolutely ridiculous and I think what's upsetting and I would have felt this way like if it was like I wouldn't have felt this passionately but I would have had this opinion if it was any other team in any other fixture this just ruins like it's it's a disrespect to the league and it's a disrespect to the players and the staff that try to put on a big game it's a disrespect to the fans that show up.

21:58It's like 57 ,000 fans in the Emirates. Chelsea and Arsenal are two of the best teams in Europe, but two of the best teams in England. This is the most important fixture of the season in terms of eyes on it is this tie at the Emirates. And the game just deserves more than that because it's just this whole game, I think, is diabolical officiating. But this is, yeah, this makes no sense. This is a referee saying, oh, it might have done something. So let me rule out the goal on the clause that it might have done something because there is no way you're looking at that and thinking, or it could have been a handball and when not one person even suggests a handball as a possibility like it is just oh my god I can't believe it but the biggest thing for me is like this is just like it just ruins one of the biggest games of the WSL calendar and it ruins the league as well because it's just yeah it's absolutely ridiculous yeah like there's no decision to make here on the other calls there's a decision to make and you're coming down on a side so a marginal offside like doing nothing is making a decision you're saying it's not offside it is offside the pullover challenge will come on to that in a minute you're saying that is a red that is like you're you've got something happens that gives you a decision to make there's no decision to make here like this has just been conjured up out of thin air and i think you know it's difficult because like uh you know getting refereeing standards higher raising refereeing standards i know the league is working on that and has been for a while but that that does take years that is not something that can happen overnight it takes years and years for that to happen so like there is there is a bit of sympathy i do think and you see this in the women's champions league a lot like sometimes you just go that the level of play and the stakes have gone up so much and the refereeing standards haven't gone with them it's like still amateur you know and like i said that that is going to take a little while to fix i think and what i'm about to say isn't the referees for i think there were other things about this fixture that were just not great from the league um putting this at 12 o 'clock on a saturday no need to do that um i don't think not least because um tottenham men were at home this is like a nearly sold out emirates tottenham men were at home at like the same time and that created some problems i believe on public transport and train stations and stuff like that don't do that like let's take some care about this stuff this is possibly the biggest club game in European women's football.

24:35Take some care over that stuff. We've got the North London Derby next week, which has been put during a men's international break, presumably to spotlight it. The Tottenham Hotspur Stadium isn't available because they've got boxing on, so it's being played at Brisbane Road. That's really sloppy work. That's really sloppy. And I think there were a few things, and officiating is part of that, that just didn't do this game justice. And I think WSL football have to take a bit more care over some of this stuff, to be quite honest. But yeah, anyway, crap decision. I asked Renee afterwards and I kind of said, the way I positioned the question to Renee is I'm not going to ask you about the decision itself.

25:20We all have eyes, we can all see it. And I always want to ask her about things she controls. So I never really want to ask her about refereeing decisions because I feel like it's kind of a waste of time. I want to get her on stuff that she controls. So I asked her about how the players regulated after that because it's not just the injustice. For a good minute, they think they've scored and it's taken away. And she talked about, she was proud of the way they did that. But I think it has to be said, some frustration definitely crept in. And we had Katie McCabe, perhaps unsurprisingly, you know, wipes the player out.

25:59She's taken off very soon afterwards for Taylor Hines. And then there's a challenge from Victoria Pilova, which I think should have been a red card. And I think that's also, not to excuse her for it, I think that's a product of frustration as well. Yeah, certainly. I think these are two, like, the fouls themselves are different in severity. but the Katie McCabe one really annoyed me because I think that in the, like obviously at Stamford Bridge last season, she gets sent off for talking back to the referee. And it's like these really high stakes moments and the side don't need you to do that. I think the tackle on Lucy Brown is actually quite bad.

26:33Initially I thought it was a swipe and then it's like, it is quite studs up. I don't think it's a sending off at all, but it's more. Scissory, isn't it? Yeah. It's more the fact that it's just that doesn't need to happen. You're a leader in this team. Well, not a captain in this fixture, but you are a leading presence in this team. and that's yeah that's potentially a talking point as well it's Steph Catley who gets the arm band we saw that in pre-season as well yeah exactly so I just think that's really frustrating from Katie McCabe and Renee does the right thing to take her off after this it's just a maturity level that it's annoying that she still does that because I think she's such an amazing player and such a good leader but the Victoria Pulover Challenge is definitely a product of frustration and it's a product of a player that really struggled to like track back in this game a little bit I know she's not at her best and fitness wise she's certainly not at her best And I think she obviously feels the emotions of this goal is that every other player on the pitch, this Chelsea player is included.

27:21And it's just a product of the fact that she's maybe just been losing out jewels and she goes into this challenge. And I think it's I think it's a red card. And I think it's an interesting talking point because had this maybe gone to VAR, I think we've seen challenges like that in the Premier League become yellow cards and not sending off. But I think from the naked eye, it's obvious that she studs up and she's gone into Kira Walsh. I think she's so lucky it's Kira Walsh that she's gone into because this is a player that doesn't dive naturally, very strong on the ball. She doesn't like to make a fuss about it.

27:48She's like, Victoria Plover's lucky this is Kira Walsh because she doesn't even go down really fully in a challenge here. So I think she's lucky there. She's lucky that the referee's not called it because it's a brainless challenge. In my eyes, it's a red card. I don't really know why Arsenal fans don't think it is. So, yeah, two things that just did not need to happen from a player's mentality point of view and two, like tackles that can put players in harm as well. yeah I think it's a stonewall red card I don't know what view the ref had on it and to be fair like I didn't know that till I saw a replay um you know when I first saw it in real time I remember thinking that looks like and she came out with the yellow card and I was like it does look a bit like but I had to see a replay so I kind of give the ref the benefit of the doubt potentially Sometimes those things are kind of difficult to see in the moment.

28:40But yeah, and, you know, Victoria Plova didn't have a fantastic game. She comes off. But Arsenal, other than that, I do think their response is good. They bring Taylor Hines and Frieda Mornem on. I think Frieda makes a real impact, very tangibly, actually. but even aside from like the assist and scoring the disallowed goal at the end I think she makes a real difference and Arsenal do once they get the red mist out of the way a little bit they do continue to pin Chelsea back pretty well. Certainly I think the changes it's interesting I think we have a couple questions about substitutions but I think that the changes from an Arsenal point of view I don't know if it's kind of correcting the starting 11 or whether it's just like a really well-timed injection of energy into this team and I think it worked really well Frieda Mornham is a player that like she's so funny because she can be the best player in the world or she can be like an absolute like ghost and just not really impact a fixture but when she's on I just think she's so intelligent and I think that we've seen a growth of Frieda Mornham under Renee Slagers in the way that I think she was a star in your side of our team and he really really valued her but I don't think she had a role she almost was given free reign to kind of join the striker, like run across the midfield, kind of be wherever you want.

29:59But I think Rene like has put a real role into Frida's, into Frida's like package. And I think that's something that's really helping Arsenal. And that's something that really helps them here because she comes on and immediately kind of settles that frontline as well, because obviously Alessia Russo goes up to the nine. And I think that's immediately helpful against a team like Chelsea, because Nat Bjorn had had Stena Blackson. He's pretty well controlled and also in possession, out of possession as well. So I think that helps, like Russo moving into the nine helps, but Frida Mornham is the star of this game, I thought.

30:26And I thought she was absolutely fantastic. She finds the pockets of space, obviously, will come onto the goals, but she knows where she needs to be and she knows where her teammates are. And I think that's just a product of a player that has played with these players more than the rest of them has. So, yeah, I thought Frida was really brilliant. I also thought Taylor Hines was brilliant in this game. I thought she came on and did everything she needed to do. Ellie Carpenter makes, like, one really good run forward and Chelsea nearly score. However, other than that, I thought Taylor Hines was really, really good.

30:52So, yeah, that's exciting because when you have to take Katie McCabe off against Chelsea, it's good to know that the left back can come on in replacement and put on a good performance. So, yeah, I thought both of these were probably two of the best performers on the occasion. Yeah, and I think we're going to see the full backs rotating in game a lot more similar to the wingers, particularly when the new right back comes to the club in January. I suspect we'll see a little bit more of that on both sides and seeing the emphasis change. but I think Taylor Hines had a good couple of weeks, I think, club and country, definitely.

31:26Russo does get the goal, the dam does burst, and a lot of it's just Arsenal pinning Chelsea back into their penalty area, and eventually Chelsea are so deep they just can't get it clear. Did you think it was offside, the Russo goal? In lifetime, yeah, I did think it was offside, can I be honest? I think it's hard as well because the only angles we have of it aren't straight, So I still like can't make a call on that. I think that, yeah, I would have maybe, it's hard. Like, because like you said before, there's a decision to be made there. The referee like calls that offside. And then like, as we see with second goal, it's like, okay, why have you called that offside?

32:02You just put your flag off because you're not sure. And I think maybe sometimes it's better to just as a linesman to just, if you're not completely sure, is it worth kind of like ruining the result? But then again, if she's offside and she scores, like Chelsea might be agreed by that. And that's fair enough if they are. I just don't think we have like a full stonewall answer of whether that is offside or not. But she did this to Chelsea two seasons ago as well. So I think like, I think it's a really well-worked goal as well. Like Frida finds the space so well. It's a brilliant assist. It's not great goalkeeping at all.

32:34I think Hannah Hampton was probably kicking herself. She should have saved that goal 100%. But again, an intelligent striker's run. I really like the biggest takeaway I got from this goal was Frida Mornem and Alessio Russo are working together a lot better. I think we like a season ago, we were so like, oh, this is a partnership that's not going to work. And now I think it's our best partnership in terms of what they can create. So that's really positive. If I was a Chelsea fan, I would be like, that's offside. That's ridiculous. But I'm not. So I'm going to say I don't really know. I think with both offsides, this and the Frida one, I think there's an element of I don't know if politicking is the right word.

33:09But I think that the referees, and I think this might have gone into the pullover decision as well, where maybe the ref does see it. And it's like, I know at this point I've made a massive mistake taking a goal away from Arsenal and therefore now sending one of their players off feels like a trickier decision. I did get the sense that maybe they realised they'd made a massive mistake. And so, you know, Rousseau is a toenail offside. Do you know what? Let's let it go because we've taken a goal away. And likewise with the 3-1, I think if it's still 1-0 to Chelsea, they'd take that diplomatic decision.

33:51They'd just go, do you know what? We've diddled them for a goal. We kind of owe them something here. We owe them something borderline. But because the Russo goals happened and it's the last minute, you know, the Frida goal, I've seen the freeze for it. I still don't know whether it's offside. Like you said, I don't think the angle is quite there. I've got no idea. I'm not massively aggrieved about that being ruled out. And I do kind of think it's totally human nature for an official to go. If this goes in, that's the winner. And if I'm wrong and it's offside, there's going to be riots. and so I kind of understand why an assistant goes you know I'm putting my flag up and let's have this finish one one and we've evened up like the massive error we made earlier so I think there's an element of like correcting going on and officiating which to be honest I'm okay with and one of my many problems with VAR in the men's game is it takes that away sometimes sometimes you get a really bad decision and i think it's kind of all right for officials to level that up and actually in the men's game var takes that away because it goes no no no no no no no you're not leveling this out this is this is wrong so you know i i kind of think in the end they probably just about get there and uh one of the things i said right at the end of the blog was um of the vlog rather was I think these referees just want this game to end.

35:21I think they want to get down the tunnel. I think they want it to finish one all and they want to go home. And I don't want to speculate too much on what might happen to this referee, whether she'll be in WSL2 next week or whether she'll get a weekend off or whatever. But in the end, it's difficult to pass, isn't it? It's difficult to analyse. Was a draw about right? Well, we could have been 3-0 down, But at the same time, I felt like if the Steiner goal had counted, we had a long time to go and try and win the game. I didn't really know what to feel at the end of this game, Jamie. How did you feel?

35:58Yeah, I completely agree. I think had you asked me at halftime, if this ends 1-1, I would have been happy with that result. Asked me at 90 minutes and I was less happy. I think if the Steiner goal goes in, I think Arsenal go on to score again and maybe even again. I think the momentum's in their favour. They're playing better football in the second 45 minutes. I do think that if that goal is counted, Arsenal have the momentum and the crowd play a massive part in that because they're so – they wake up in the back 45 minutes. However, that's also because the goal is being discounted. So had the crowd been maybe that excited, I don't know.

36:31Everything looks better in hindsight. But I do think – look, I think Chelsea had opportunities to put this game to bed within the first 30 minutes. I think Reading Canerad will be reliving the fact she hit the post in the opening few minutes because that's a sitter. and I think Chelsea probably should have put this game away. So from an Arsenal perspective, I think if the stakes aren't as high in this fixture, you kind of just roll with it. You take it and you're like, okay, let's make do what we can of this result because you lost this game last season and you lost both fixtures against Chelsea last season.

37:00So I think if the stakes aren't as high, I would have felt okay about it because it's horrendous officiating. It's really, really bad, just spectacle-wise. But I think Chelsea had their opportunity to win the game. So did Arsenal. But the stakes are high. Like Arsenal are essentially nearly out of the six points behind Man City right now. So a 1-1 draw feels absolutely frustrating. And that's when you start getting more upset about decisions that maybe you don't get upset about in other weeks. Yeah, and obviously the press conference, both managers focused on it a lot. And I think Renee was clearly very frustrated.

37:34She stayed pretty diplomatic. But even Sonia Bompastor said, I can understand why Arsenal are frustrated. um so yeah it it it was you know it was it was a pretty kind of controversial game um all told um should we leave part one there and uh because we've got a lot of questions a lot of very good questions for part two and we'll be back right after this

38:05okay welcome back to part two of the arsenal women ask cast and ask blog.com with Tim Stillman and Jamie Spanger talking about Saturday's 1-1 draw between Arsenal and Chelsea. As ever, part two is going to be your questions submitted on Blue Sky and some from our Discord, from our AskBlog Patreon members. Let's start with a heavy one, Jamie, with a big one. It might have a simple answer, it might not, but this one from at Han Solo on Blue Sky. Do you believe we can still win the WSL this season? No. I'm sorry, everyone. I'm sorry I don't. Just perspective-wise, we beat City at the Joy and we beat Villa at the Emirates last season.

38:51So they're two games that had six points that we now have won from and Chelsea and Man City, I think, are in a two-horse race. I think United, obviously, they did lose to Villa, but I don't think the Champions League spots are actually an issue. I don't think United have the squad depth to sustain it. I thought they were going to last longer than November. But, yeah, no, I don't think. I think the points dropped elsewhere. It's not even the Chelsea game. It's the points dropped elsewhere that I don't think there's much hope. I'm sorry, everyone. Yeah, I think at an absolute minimum, we need nine points off of Chelsea, United and City.

39:23So we've got Chelsea away, City and United at home. I think we've got to win all of those to have any sort of chance. I don't think it's definitely over. but I wouldn't be putting my money on Arsenal, put it that way. I do think this was a must win. Do you have a question for me? I do. This one's from, this person always asks very good questions. This one's from at NDMW. Did you interpret the four subs before the 75 minutes with the fifth soon after as a sign that Rene misjudged the starting 11? Good coaching from the touchline or were we just a bit unfortunate that ahead of our biggest game of the season, player fitness meant the team and sub timings largely picked themselves?

40:04I think it's a little bit of all of those things. I do think it probably is a little bit. You know that the starting lineup wasn't quite right. If I tried to get into Rene's head and tried to think about what she might do, I think maybe Kyra over Victoria Pilova is the thing she might do. I kind of think with Frida, because she'd had a knock, I don't think she was ever going to start the game. I think kind of wanted Russo deeper. Not to repeat what I said in the first half, I also think Russo has played really well in the 10 for two games in a row. And maybe that's part of why Freedler looked very, very good when she came on.

40:46So, you know, unlike the wide positions, Olivia Smith wasn't fit to start. Chloe Kelly is not fit to start at the moment. So those decisions kind of made themselves really. Katie Reid wasn't and Lotta was fine was really good anyway so yeah maybe a bit I think that left back spot we are going to see a bit of timeshare there I still think Katie will probably start most games but and I think this is a really positive development for Arsenal where last season Katie and Emily Fox had to play every minute of every game I think that's that's going to stop soon and we're going to see you know Taylor Hines getting minutes at left back whether she plays 60 minutes like she did last week or 30 minutes but the way the fullbacks were used against Leicester last week like Taylor Hines was brilliant for 60 minutes then Emily Fox came on and if you look at the data from the game her attacking like over 30 minutes her attacking numbers are some of the best on the pitch and she did something very very different and I think Rene's going to use that as a bit of a weapon so I don't think there are loads of mistakes I do think if Rene could go back she might do Kyra for Victoria Pilova not least because I guess one of the concerns a lot of fans would have we kind of hand waved a little bit that Leicester goal last weekend but then like Chelsea just power through the middle don't they and that that look like one of the goals we could concede last season and I do wonder if she'd rather have had Kyra you know a little bit more bombast in midfield and I'm expecting to see Kyra start on Wednesday night so maybe a little bit of all of those things but when I really look at it I kind of only think there's one spot she would definitely change and it's that one so yeah yeah a little bit of all of those things but obviously as well there's the early goal and like I said the context of the table really informs the game so we'll see um how about these ones then two very similar ones one from uh at so fire queen guna i felt like we were robbed of all three points do you think the players will feel the same way and maybe it'll spur them on for the rest of the season we're probably out of the title race but you know maybe you can focus on retaining the Champions League and the Cups.

43:07And on Blue Sky, Annie at Annie-25, do you think maybe this game gets us back into the fighting spirit we had last season? I feel like this game can make us wake up a little and maybe be a bit more ruthless. Yeah, Arsenal like a narrative. I think that they like adversity and they like to thrive in adversity. And as odd as it sounds, I do think the next few games coming up a really good and well-timed for Arsenal. I think a big high-stakes game against Bayern Munich, who aren't at their best in the Champions League, they need to get three points. And maybe this is the fixture you want to be played after a game where the Arsenal players feel that they're robbed.

43:46You can tell by everything they've said after the game, especially on social media, just saying, like, we deserved more. So if they're feeling that, hopefully they can go into that Bayern Munich game and win. And then you've got a really, obviously, a game you always want to win against Spurs and North London Derby away as well. And you kind of want to show up to Brisbane Road and be like, what is this place? Like, let's get three points and just show this league and, like, you know, our city rivals that we're a better side than them. So I think these are two really good games to come after, a game where Arsenal might be feeling sorry for themselves.

44:14And I think it's the best time for these two, like this kind of really hard block to happen, as weird as that may sound. I think last season it was completely different. They were really, really struggling. And then it was Bayern and Chelsea, which is the worst possible time for those fixtures to happen. I think I agree with this. I think these players, and we've seen this group, really, really respond well to adversity and they want to kind of prove who they are when things go wrong. So I think playing Bayern Munich and playing Tottenham is probably the best thing. If we had to have no Champions League this week and then maybe played against Brighton or Everton on the weekend, I'd be far more stressed, which feels odd, but I think it's true.

44:47Do you have a question for me? I do. This one is from at Dickie Byrne. Is this team too Kim dependent? Any mix of Mariona, Karakuni, Cross, Pulova in the two gives off a vibe of not having enough to take on the bigger teams. Does that vibe have any justification? or is there not enough of a sample size to judge? Yeah, and I'll throw in one as well from our friend at Unbiased Arsenal. What's the fan base obsession with Little and replacing Valti? They started the same fixture last season. The performance was similar, except we actually lost. Yeah, probably. On one hand, I think Kim is still at a world-class level as a performer.

45:31and you're going to miss world-class players. I think the issue is that we still don't know what the future of the midfield looks like. It was Kim and Wally for so, so long and we're still not clear on what it looked like. Now it's Mariana and Kim, but there are a lot of contracts up in the midfield and the age profile means we are coming to a stage where we kind of have to know what the future looks like there. I think Victoria Pilova and Kyra Cooney Cross are really, really good players, but we still don't really know what their role is yet. We don't really think they can play together. Maybe they can.

46:14We haven't really seen it very much. It does feel a little bit muddled. So I have some sympathy for being Kim dependent in a way because I think she's still brilliant. I think she's been our best player this season at the same time it does feel like particularly with Leo Valti gone like there is no natural six I consider Kim a six now and I'm happy enough with that, I think she's really good at it but we definitely don't have another one we played two players together who have both played as a number 10 this season at the base midfield So I would like to see an addition in January of a kind of more natural six, I have to say.

47:03So, yeah, we are Kim dependent. And I don't think that would be a big problem if we were like, yeah, but we've got like the next player or the next partnership is there. And I just I don't think we have any clarity on that. So I think a mixture of the age profile and the fact that we don't really have any clarity on the future of that midfield, I think that creates the obsession, as Unbiased says, and that does create the Kim depend... Or sorry, that makes the Kim dependence even bigger. So I completely understand why those are massive talking points, to be honest, even if I'm more okay with the Kim-Mariana pivot than a lot of people seem to be.

47:46um how about okay so i i've got like very short answer to this particular question which is no i hate it still um but i'm gonna ask you for your um opinion um first of all from at lm 33 on blue sky in your opinion is vir needed in the wsl and from our discord uh wishful i think that's wishful llama I don't know if that's llama the name or like yama the animal um but how are you feeling about calls to introduce var into the wsl Jamie are you a are you a yay or an a on var in the wsl let me like break the fourth wall um anyone if you watch the arsenal men's team I want you to ask yourself like if you're a premier league fan have you ever come away from an arsenal game and said I love VAR and I'm so glad that they helped us win this game or have you walked away and said VAR is just as opinionated but like personal based human and just like kind of it's there's so much room for error as an on-field referee because I just think like I hate VAR in the Premier League I think it's awful like it makes long breaks and I think that it doesn't get rid of like the error of judgment I think that VAR officials clearly still make mistakes like a lot because it's just another referee.

49:09Like it's still another referee, but they're just in a room. Like it's different. It's not different. It's the same thing. I just think it makes the game slower. It makes spectacle worse. We're going to be sitting in the Emirates Stadium on Saturday with VAR and they're going to be drawing lines for half an hour to see if Freedom Ornans are toenail offside. Or they're going to be, or should we send off Victoria Plover? Should we not? And I think the standard of refereeing is the issue in the women's game and it is the issue in the men's game as well. But I do think VAR just gets rid of any excitement of fixture.

49:35And I think that it's just, yeah, it's just, it's automating something, but not getting rid of the error. So I just think, no, I'm very anti-VAR. In saying that, I'm pro goal line technology. I think that that is a must and that should just be implemented. And if your stadium in the WSL can't work it, then that's like, it's hard. It's hard in football, right? Because the league, every stadium needs to have the same thing. And like, you look at something like tennis and I was speaking to someone the other day and they were saying like, it's funny when you look at like a grand slam because only like the big courts have like line technology or like Hawkeye what it is now and that's just like how it is like if you're a top seed player you get it and I think it's it's a bit difficult in football because you're going to someone else's ground like if Arsenal have it but let's say like uh what's an example there's a lot of big stadiums now right yeah exactly right it's different because it's like okay Arsenal have it and Brighton don't so it's maybe a disservice to Brighton in tennis I guess it's just two players but I think it's interesting because okay at what point do you have to say if you're not going to upgrade your stadium then you're falling out and that's just something football don't have that's a perfect world philosophy for me but I just think maybe gold line technology is is definitely a must refereeing is just there's not enough referees so if a referee has a really bad game they're going to be in the WSL next weekend because there's not enough pro referees and that kind of doesn't give them any incentive to be better at their jobs but no I'm very anti-VAR and I really am being yeah no I hate it been burned by it too many times Yeah, I'm not a fan, never was.

50:59I've seen it in the Premier League many years, don't like it. I'm prepared to suffer the injustices personally. And again, fine with other people seeing it the other way. It just depends what you value more. Do you value justice or do you value the flow of the game, the emotion, et cetera? And people have a different response to that. I think the Steiner goal that's disallowed, that felt very VAR coded. to me that felt very premier league took ages no one knew what was going on looking for the smallest thing to take a goal away like if that felt a very vr moment to me actually which is um which is actually quite kind of rare in the wsl and i really value it not being again personally i really value it not being there in the wsl it's to me it's a really nice contrast to the men's game the other thing to say is it will come eventually of course it will it's like you say the reason it's not there is because not everyone has the stadium for it at the moment that's that's the only reason really and one of the things i hope they're doing in terms of like training the next generation of wsl referees i just hope they're working on it now because one of the one of the issues with var implementation which is unavoidable um is that you're drastically changing someone's job yeah um like you know in the premier league i think this has happened i always compare it to the back pass law so i remember the back pass law coming in in 1992 and it drastically changed the goalkeeper's job overnight and those first few months after it came in were chaos it was kind of funny but like for goalkeepers all of a sudden their job was drastically changed overnight and a lot of them couldn't cope with it but then like over time they got used to it and then you get the next generation of goalkeepers who will grow up with it and now like most Premier League goalkeepers weren't even born when that rule came in and I think it'll be the same with VAR like in 20 years every official will have just had it baked into their job but you're always going to get a bit of a chaotic process but personally I don't like it in football and don't want it.

53:16And like I say, I do kind of think the officials probably evened it out a little bit, like they amended things with some of the other decisions. So, yeah. How about, you know, we're playing Bayern on Wednesday night away at the Allianz. A couple of questions, again, about the midfield. We always get questions about the midfield. one from Emily M Pritchett on Blue Sky midfield predictions for Bayern and Spurs with confirmation that Kim will miss both felt Vic wasn't quite up to scratch and Kyra gave a really lively injection when subbed on and from Shuri a 5-7-5-6 on Blue Sky how did you guys feel about Pilova starting ahead of Kyra we kind of touched on that but I thought the team looked more coherent and balanced when Kyra came on So, you know, a little bit about Kyra Cooney-Cross's substitute appearance and whether you think that'll influence the selection ahead of Bayern and Spurs.

54:15Yeah, certainly. I think Kyra's, we didn't really speak about it in the first half, but I think Kyra's involvement in this game holds so much weight in the fact that Arsenal can get themselves back in it. Again, I just think it's because it's not she comes on and she changes the game because she's so amazing. It's she comes on and she's just a little bit more of an anchor and she's like not, you know, as flowy in the space in the midfield. So it just allows the other players to find the pockets. It allows Olivia Smith to kind of invert a little bit more. Everyone around her feels like they've got more freedom, and therefore it's not just a bunch of headless chickens.

54:45So I think Kyra's inclusion into this game gives Arsenal the structure that they needed because Chelsea were exploiting those kind of gaps. I thought, yeah, we spoke about Victoria Plova's performance. No need to go further than that. Not her best. Definitely, definitely not her best. In terms of the midfield going into Bayern, I think we'll see Kyra definitely against Bayern Munich. They're a top side. like they're a very good side but they're struggling especially in the Champions League recently I think that we'll see her Mariona maybe maybe Frida in the 10 I don't think Stina will start this game I think Russo maybe goes back into the 9 for this game against Spurs I wouldn't be surprised if Rene just tries pull over and Mariona again because they're gonna maybe have to play together and eventually like you may as well start that against a team that traditionally play like two very defensive players in Evelina Suman and Drew Spence so they're not going to run through as much as Chelsea want to.

55:32And their wingers certainly aren't going to do the same. They also play Tambor like very high up the pitch on her own. Chelsea like to involve their wingers a little bit more. So I think someone like Olivia Holt is someone that I think she's a star underrated player in the WSL, but she's a 10 that I think that pivot could deal with because she's not kind of like a Lissa Thompson ball carrier. I'm just going to run really, really fast. She's a little bit more, she likes to be technical with her feet. So I think we're going to see two different midfields. I think that Renee should trial this, this pullover Mariona thing one more time against Spurs, because I think pullover needs a role in the team and maybe she prefers to play in that position.

56:06And that's just something you need to work on. Also gives room to, if you need to take out Mariona, can you play Kim and pullover? So I'd like that to be tried against as much as I hated it, literally hated it. I think Spurs is the perfect game just because how they frame their midfield, very traditional fullbacks as well. So they don't really like to overload Ash Neville and Nildon stay very wide in the channels. So yeah, I think Kyrie Cooney-Cross comes in for a pullover, Friedem Ornum comes in in the midfield for Bayern, and then I'd like to see just the same, maybe the same midfield, maybe even the same striker set up against Spurs.

56:36Do you have a question for me? I do. This one is, again, we touched on it a little bit more earlier about Steph Catley wearing the armband. This one's from at Saoirse 14. What's going on with the leadership group? We obviously know Steph has been added, but has that order changed? Steph getting the armband over Katie and Lotta would suggest something has shifted. So she makes a good point here saying, I can imagine the club wanted to protect Katie after the abuse she's gotten since the Leicester game. However, I also think you said it earlier, Tim, this has happened before this season. In preseason, Steph has gotten the armband.

57:10So what's the dealio? Yeah, so I asked about that in preseason because I can't remember if it was the Spurs or West Ham friendly, but Steph got the armband over Katie McCabe. I had heard well before the end of last season, actually, that Rene wanted to make changes in the leadership group. I think Katie's still in it. I know that Lotta is part of it. And obviously, Leo Valti left the club in the summer. So that's one player who kind of naturally came out anyway. It was interesting, though. Rene wouldn't commit on it in pre-season. But she said, when we have something to communicate, we will. and obviously they haven't communicated anything about the kind of leadership group.

57:56Like, obviously, it's still Kim Little with Leo Williamson as vice. But yeah, it looks like Steph is third in there. And then you've got Katie and Lotta. But I do think that's interesting for Steph to move above Katie McCabe. and you know I think we saw that Renee was not happy about what happened at Stamford Bridge because even after she served her suspension Katie McCabe sat on the bench for a game which I think was the only time basically she sat on the bench so that that felt punitive and that maybe maybe this is slightly punitive as well maybe this is you know you know you're down one rung in the ladder in the leadership group I don't know for sure but I had heard stuff at the end of last season that ran which I think is actually quite natural as well with a new manager that she wanted to refresh the leadership group a little bit so I know Lotta went into it um which by the way is I believe never been communicated by the club um but it is the case I can tell you that um so yeah it does it does feel i won't say strange but um there's been a little bit of change in there um that's not really been communicated externally and i think that's down to renee as well i think everything about renee tells you that she really wants that training ground to be like a sanctum um and everything she talks about you know she uses the phrase in the building all the time i think she really wants like that to be a very kind of tight internal um type thing so yeah but but i think i i do think it's interesting i think everyone can speculate on on the reasons um why that might be so yeah in in interesting mildly interesting i'd say because like katie mccabe's still playing you know um still starts most games so So I don't think there's been any massive admonishment there.

1:00:01But yeah, it looks like Renee's changed things up a little bit. And it kind of makes sense because she always plays Steph Catley. Steph has been captaining Matildas with Sam Kerr out as well and has been the vice captain, I think, for the Matildas for quite a long time. So I don't really see any big problem with that. Clearly a player and a character that Renee really, really likes. how about there was a question on our discord about the women's team playing at the same time as Spurs men I think we addressed that in the first half and that shouldn't happen so yeah this is the one I wanted from A at Ariel AWFC on Blue Sky oftentimes it feels like the fanbase can't take anything good out of match days, especially if they don't go as hoped.

1:00:58I've heard a lot of, well, the league's gone in November, etc. But what are some of the tangible positives from Saturday that we can point to as reasons for hope and why the season isn't over? Yeah, I agree with that sentiment. I do. I think that one... Oh my God, I have the hiccups. I'm so sorry. I think that one tangible thing is the fact that Arsenal have gone head-to-head with Chelsea. who have won the league six times in a row. And in the last 30 minutes, I thought they were by far the better team. The hiccups have really got me here. Well, I'll work through them. I think that's a big positive.

1:01:33And I do think the positive as well is that Rene has altered the team in the 75th-ish minute, also in the 60th minute. And it's changed the outcome of the game. I think that Arsenal just wake up from there. And I think she's getting her substitutions really like right recently. And I think it's funny because maybe her starting 11 is what's going wrong, but she's doing better at kind of implementing the injection. And I also think the squad depth is just something to take away and something that I don't think we've had historically. Like you bring on Olivia Smith, you bring on Freda Mornem, Kyrie Cooney Cross.

1:02:01Like these are really, really good players that I think obviously can like impact games. And I think that's something that we were saying after the Stamford Bridge loss last season is Chelsea were bringing on Lauren James and like Gururiton. And obviously both those players were unavailable for this fixture, so maybe it's a bit different. But we were like, we were not doing that. Like our substitutions were not doing, like raising the level. So that's something that I think that Arsenal should take away and the fans should take away is this squad is better. Like the squad depth is better. And I think when you're going to look at a game and think the midfield, I thought the midfield was really, really deplorable.

1:02:33And I'm on the fan side with that. That really overshadows how there's depth in other areas where there hasn't historically been. And I think that we need to focus on that. The fullbacks are better. The wingers are better. You can play Stina, you can play Russo. When you get Lee Williamson back, the centre-back options as well. So I think the depth and the ability to correct against a team, the best team in England, is something that the fans should be happy about because that's a long-term benefit. However, I'm also of the frustration that we've always been good against good teams. We've not been good against bad teams.

1:03:02You drew to Aston Villa and obviously drop points against Manchester City who might go on to win the league. Who knows? So I think there are positives in the fact that the squad is building. There's still a lot of building to be done, I think. But I think that the way that Renee, I think she outcoached Sonia in the last 30 minutes. I think that Sonia just came with a better game plan and she's just such an experienced manager. And something as well, I think Renee Slagers is a very inexperienced manager. She's very young. Like the Arsenal job is pretty doomed. Like it's probably the job in the world where you're going to have the most eyes on you.

1:03:32You're going to have the most scrutiny on you. And she's a young manager that I think is learning as she goes. So I think there's positives to come from this game. If we'd beaten Villa and beaten City or gotten a point out of City, I don't think it would be as doom and gloom as it is right now yeah renee referred to this a bit uh there's a question from freddie cardi about um she'd said in her program notes after the stanford bridge game in january she said that in her program notes she said she talked to the players and said i don't want to feel like that again and freddie asked her about that and she said no yeah i don't feel like that i felt in the build-up to the game i felt better about this and i think a lot of that is probably connected to what you were just saying about the squad as well probably just felt a bit more prepared one of the things she said after that Chelsea defeat in January as well that really grabbed me at the time she said I want to play the game again now she was like if it was up to me I'd get both those teams back out on the pitch and I'd play it now and so there was something in that defeat in January that that kind of chastened her and she didn't feel like that this time and she said one of the reasons I'm frustrated is because I think we did enough to win.

1:04:40Maybe this isn't entirely in the spirit of the question because it doesn't relate to our performance or Saturday. I guess the other thing to take a positive from is I think the standards of the league is much higher. We're recording on Sunday evening. I watched Tottenham versus London City Lionesses earlier today. Fantastic game, by the way. Really good to be able to watch another WSL game, actually. It feels like now they've synchronised all the kick-offs. I don't get to do it but two very good teams with very good attackers um villa have gone to the emirates and taken a point they've gone to manchester united and won you know lcl are the newly promoted club and they're not messing around they could finish fifth very easily there's not you know there's not that kind of team in the league that's come up and and can't lay a glove on anyone So there will be points dropped, I think, by other teams, whether it will be enough.

1:05:39And obviously Arsenal are in a position where they can't drop any anymore. But teams like Villa, Brighton, Spurs, London City, Lionesses, I can see them taking points off of some of the teams around us. And that's a reason to be positive, I think. Should we finish it there? I think that sounds... Let's finish on a slightly positive note, at least. yeah no let's let's WSL's great best league in the world definitely not far more really good job guys no I agree absolutely absolutely and um yep I'll be in Munich um this week uh with all the kind of usual coverage uh crossing my fingers for accreditation away at Spurs because the league has kind of messed that up a little bit um by not really understanding that the Tottenham Hotspur stadium is not available so I think Tottenham and Arsenal is going to be quite oversubscribed so fingers crossed I get my accreditation for that but obviously regardless we'll have all the usual coverage of both those games and Jamie and I will come back with another podcast for you after the North London derby looking back on our 6-7-8-0 win or whatever it is at Brisbane Road and we'll all be feeling a little bit lighter an area but thanks as ever for joining us thanks for your questions do leave a review on your podcast carrier of choice it really helps us and we'll speak to you next week