Arsenal Women Arsecast Episode 143: NLD stalemate as Gunners' funk continues

0:13Hello and welcome to the Arsenalwomenaskcastcastonaskblog.com with me your host Tim Stillman looking back on sunday's reasonably drab nil nil draw away at tottenham at the top of the show i'd just like to say if you're listening on monday um the day this comes out it's the last day of voting for the annual fsa awards and ask blog is up for best fan media um i think the awards in their current iteration have been going 14 years been nominated 13 times one five or six i think we'd love to win it again it's been a couple of years so if you wouldn't mind voting for us um again that it closes on monday so if you're listening to this on tuesday the chance is gone but uh we're up against some stiff competition the likes of the anfield rap h t l co friend of the friend of the uh the site um it's fair to say so yeah we'd love your votes um and yeah that's that now we're going to go into therapy mode I think because we are going to talk about the nil-nil draw with Spurs and probably more besides it's fair to say I think it's kind of time to bang the gabble and have a bit of a state of the nation here to do that with us as ever is our co-host Jamie Spanger Jamie how are you doing this evening in Melbourne I've been better Tim this is a hard one this is probably probably the worst I felt in a little while the Chelsea one was annoying, like bad decisions against a top team.

1:38This one was a punch in the stomach that I've been dealing with since going to bed at 3.30am and then the NWSL at 7am. So I'm grumpy and really excited to relive it. Yeah, I've actually, I've been watching, well, as much as I can of the NWSL playoffs. I watched the Spirit Thorns game on Saturday. Unfortunately, We won't derail the conversation by talking about that because this podcast does feel like a therapy session and not just for us, Jamie. I think it's fair to say a lot of the listeners, I think we've probably come to a stage where Arsenal have been in a funk for a couple of months now. We haven't spoken since the capitulation in Munich, which was very difficult to accept, I think.

2:22and I completely understand if ever as a fan there's a time to, you know, crash out as people younger than me would say, I think it was after Wednesday night. So sometimes I look at my Twitter mentions after a result or something and, you know, I'll keep this to myself. But I think, no, that's maybe a bit OTT, maybe, you know, and it's all fine. Like people are emotional and stuff. But on Wednesday night, I was a bit like, yeah, yeah, I'm with you. This is all fine. And like one of the things about Wednesday as well, Jamie, was like I tend not to do the mix zone and try to speak to players after a disappointing result, usually because they don't want to speak.

3:03But on this occasion, it was much more like I don't want to speak to you at the moment. I'm feeling a bit hurt. So before, you know, we go into Sunday, thousand foot view of Wednesday night in Munich. Yeah, one of the most frustrating results, like humanly possible, I think. This is a Bayern Munich team that are riddled with injuries, really, really low on squad rotation and depth right now and not good in form in the Champions League this season, it must be said. And in the Bundesliga, they're grinding out results, but they're not playing the best football. And I think in the opening 45 minutes, what was so frustrating about this result is Arsenal played so well in the first half.

3:44And I thought, this is a team that, you know, this is what we want to see consistently. against good oppositions. We want to see this kind of football. And then it was a total mental collapse. And I think we spoke a bit about, I think it was after the City game and it was saying this result in isolation, not the end of the day, but when it just kind of adds up, it accumulates the Aston Villa draw at the Emirates. And now we've got a Chelsea draw, United draw. Obviously this result as well on the weekend, but it just felt like that was a summary of what it's been like to watch this team over the last couple of months.

4:15And I think myself, probably you included, You're much more calm than I am, Tim. And the fan base in general were just saying, yeah, this result was probably coming. And it's frustrating because we could have seen it happening and it just played out in front of our eyes. Yeah, Arsenal haven't beaten a team in the top half, the WSL this season. Probably the best team they've been. Well, maybe LCL. LCL or Benfica are the two best teams Arsenal have beaten this season, really. And, you know, this game, Chelsea draw just before kickoff, which I think if Arsenal win, that just about puts them back into the title picture.

4:49I said in my vlog afterwards, I think we're totally out of it, too far back and not playing well enough to go on the kind of run that will be necessary, even though I think Chelsea and City are going to drop more points this season, but I think we are as well. So that really, I do think it's about finishing in the top three. Line-up for this game, one change from the buying game, it's Kyra Cooney crossing for Victoria Pilova I asked Renee in the pre-match press conference about the absence of Kim Little not having a proper number six and she kind of said yeah we're we're working on it a little bit which I think maybe exposes um some stuff we didn't do in the summer transfer window to be honest but that was the only change um that kind of deck chair was rearranged Kyra Cooney cross coming into midfield everything else the same any surprises there for you Not necessarily.

5:46I think, yeah, Kyra Kunicross coming in was not a surprise. I think it was also a good thing. I think the one thing was Alessia Russo was dominant against Spurs last season in the striker position, but she had to drop into the midfield. And I think it's hard because I think there's a deeper conversation around this that will come on too of if there was other personnel, we wouldn't have to do that with Alessia Russo. But in this game, I think it was the best thing to do because you have to drop her back. You have to have more protection in the midfield. If you have Frida, they're very vulnerable on transition.

6:15I think Spurs didn't do enough of exploiting that. However, there was times where they could have. So from the lineup, I thought, look, with what there is in this squad, I think I probably would have done the same. So I was empathising with Rene at this stage. But yeah, it's frustrating. I think that's something we'll expand on maybe a little bit later. Yeah, I mean, we've got this midfield full of number 10s. But when it comes down to it, when Kimlett was not there, Rousseau is the only one that Rene... And I get it, to be honest, but I think it is a bit damning of the squad build that we're having to do that.

6:49And where Rene has my sympathy slightly, obviously Kim and Lear are big players to lose. They just are. And pretty much any team would be hurt by that. I don't want to use that totally as an excuse because Chelsea missed Millie Bright and Sam Kerr for a whole season and still won the league. You've got to find a way. but also I think Olivia Smith excuse me not quite being fit to start because she's had a hip injury Chloe Kelly's got this ongoing knee injury she's playing very few minutes at the moment so out wide there's less room for rotation from the start at the moment where perhaps she has my sympathy a little bit but Rene said in the post-match to me that the first half the teams were feeling each other out a little bit Is that what the first half looked like to you?

7:38What did you make of it? Yeah, I think to an extent there's a bit of that in this game. I think that almost Arsenal weren't certain of what Martin Ho's Tottenham would kind of pose to them. And I think that that's something we really saw. Maybe not, it wasn't a struggle in the first 45 minutes. It was just sluggish and slow. And I don't think Arsenal adapted the way that they would want it to. For example, something like Katinka Tamberg is a completely different number nine to what Arsenal are used to playing against when they play this Tottenham side. And this is a player that was dragging Lotto Wobbenmoy so deep into midfield.

8:08And then Steph Catley had to kind of change position. She was coming in as a right centre-back. And I don't think that was something that Arsenal anticipated because it did look disjointed at the start. I think second half, it completely changes. And that's one of like probably the only, there's a couple, maybe Olivia Smith, but probably the only positive I can say is I think that Lotto Wobbenmoy really switches on in the second half and is able to see, okay, what is Katinka Tamberg trying to drag me into and how do I have to block her out of this game? But in the first half, I thought that that one move from Martin Ho really rattled Arsenal.

8:36And it meant that everyone was out of position. I thought Kyra Kourinho, Costa, Mariano Caldente, they didn't have a bad game. They just had a boring and sluggish game. And I think because of that, they were rattled. How do we then approach this game? And how do we kind of fill that midfield if Lotto's going to be holding that space and man-marking such an active number nine? Olivia Holt likes to run around a lot on the transition. So I do think that this game, it felt as if Arsenal hadn't watched any footage of Tottenham coming into this game with Katinka Tamberg as the nine, expected it to be Bethany England and said, OK, let's deal with that and see what we can do from there.

9:06So from an Arsenal perspective, I think, yes, I think that there was a lot of teasing out. I just think from a Tottenham perspective, they knew what they needed to do in order to kind of nullify Arsenal. And I don't think they were necessarily the better team in the first half. I just think it looked like Arsenal came at this Tottenham side and said this is Robert Willihan's Tottenham let's see what we can do and then had to kind of figure it out in the opening half an hour yeah definitely I think in that opening 20 minutes especially like obviously Spurs have a lot of transitional threat particularly with someone like Jessica Naz and you're right they were dragging players out of position and I think Arsenal had to reorganize a bit because the first 20 minutes I was thinking oh my god this looks like Bayern again they're just running through us they're getting in behind that double pivot I think you're right I think we kind of reorganize a little bit that that probably comes at the cost of some attack attacking thrust and I think that really highlights an issue this team at the moment like it's that analogy I think Rafa Benitez used this analogy of the blanket where it's like it's a bit too short and what do you do do you have cold feet or do you have a cold chest because it doesn't fit and that that's kind of how I felt in this first half it's like okay we need to reorganize a bit to be a bit more secure against transition, but then it kind of comes at the cost of some attacking threat as well.

10:22And, you know, good players just playing a bit too deep. And, you know, Russo had an effort just wide. Cunicross has an effort just wide. I do think Arsenal kind of shut the tap off really on their counterattacking. But at the end of the first half, Arsenal have 0.37 XG. So you can't say they deserve to score off the back of that nil-nil was fair enough at halftime and Rene said afterwards she knew the second half would be important she didn't go into detail but she said there's something about the way Spurs set up in a second half and actually I think we saw this a bit against LCL I watched their game last weekend against LCL and they were much more vulnerable I think in the second half but there's a double sub at halftime let's take them in turn Taylor Heinz on for Katie McCabe and Renee said explicitly that this was about the yellow card and she said it's a North London derby there'll be emotions involved this is the second WSL game in a row that Katie McCabe is booked for a very cynical foul and pretty much immediately substituted you know we've seen her she's still in the leadership group but she's not wearing the captain's armband now which means really she's gone down a rung in that ladder I think this is concerning I have to say.

11:43Completely, completely concerning I think look Katie McCabe is a player that we have all known and loved so long at Arsenal because of the passion that she plays with and because you know she's so energetic and it comes at a bit of a cost sometimes but it's kind of funny when you're 25 it's not funny when you're a senior player and you're a leader and it's never funny to be doing stupid things like that. But it's almost like, okay, you're going out there, you're wearing the shirt and you're doing everything for the badge. But then it's gotten to the point in her career now where it's like if you're making stupid fouls in transition because you're frustrated or Jess Naz has come in behind you twice in the last five minutes and you're angry about that and you're going to then put the team in a very vulnerable position against a game that they're not on top of this game.

12:25It's not like it's 2-0 or the momentum's in their favour. I didn't even think that was the case at all in this game. I thought if a team was going to score, it would be Arsenal, but I didn't think it was guaranteed, and that's exactly what we saw. That, to be able to just kind of like not think about that and have that short-sighted view is something that has, I think, gotten worse in Katie McCabe's game, and I think it's something, I don't know what the product of that is, whether it is competition, whether it is just a different manager. I don't think Renee Sligas is going to tolerate that kind of, you know, not personality, but that kind of like short-sightedness and just selfishness.

12:57I don't think she's going to tolerate that, and that's something that frustrated me against Chelsea a lot and then Taylor Hines comes on and does a better job and I think that happens again in this game. I think this is something in Katie McCabe's game that is creeping in and actually becoming detrimental and she nearly did it for Ireland earlier in the year as well. She could have had two yellows and there's moments where you just get frustrated with her and that's something that I think you're too old for that. You're a senior player. You're too old for that. You're putting the team in. It's frustrating because it's so preventable and it's so annoying.

13:28when she then goes and kind of appeals to the referee, how's that a yellow card? You can't trip someone from behind when they're running up the pitch. That's just not how football works. And yeah, so I don't really have anything like intelligent and analytical to say about this one, Tim. I just think it is frustrating. And I think Taylor Hines comes on against Chelsea and against Spurs, keeps the level head and gives something Arsenal, Cade McCabe wasn't providing them. So at least there's cover there. And it is a frustrating turn of events for a player that I think gives so much to this club.

13:56yeah and it also tells you that Rene I mean she basically said it she didn't trust her not to get a second yellow um and that that has to be a concern um really but also Olivia Smith comes on for Beth Mead and you know Rene said afterwards we've had to load Beth quite a lot obviously she played both games in the international break because there's loads of injuries on the wing for England at the moment Chloe Kelly can only play a handful of minutes at the moment but But I mean, again, watching the LCL game last week, Freya Godfrey played on the right for LCL. She comes out with two goals and an assist.

14:31She absolutely tore Tottenham apart on that side. And from the first minute Olivia Smith is on, it's Arsenal look much more dangerous. She changes this game and obviously it doesn't work out in the results way. But the energy she brings into the second half, that was a change I was really hoping was going to happen at halftime. I don't think it's Beth Mead's best game by any stretch. But I also think there's so much vulnerability behind Claire Hunt and Amanda Nildon. Like those are two players, no disrespect for this Tottenham team, but I think those two players are their weakness on that left side.

15:05Those are players that don't like you to run at them. They don't like you to play direct, like be a direct winger. They kind of want you to have the ball at your feet and play back to the right back or play into the midfield and just shift the onus away from them. And Olivia Smith comes on and just basically exploits their vulnerability straight away. And I think she's a player. And there's also a mispass. I think lots of Wilbur Moy mispasses the ball. And Olivia Smith gut runs it back into the midfield, saves that transition. And this is just a player that Arsenal needs to build this team around.

15:29And I think it's good. Like the injury is obviously not good that she's kind of had to warm into the squad. But I think the worst thing that could have happened to Olivia Smith this season is she, all the onus put on her. You need to start every game. You need to be the magic player. I think Beth Mead getting loading. It's obviously frustrating because if there's dips in form, she's playing too much. But I think that's actually a good thing for Olivia Smith because I do think this Arsenal team over the last couple of seasons have liked to just pick out an individual and said, OK, save us. And I don't want her becoming that player yet.

15:57But she was that player in this game. I thought she was phenomenal. I think she knows when to take on Amanda Nilden and take it to the byline. I think she knows when to invert and maybe find the 10. So, yeah, I thought Olivia Smith was the positive of this game and probably the only one. But she was brilliant and she should have had some early assists if it weren't for some misses in the six-yard box. yeah I would be shocked if Olivia Smith and Taylor Hines don't start on Wednesday against Real Madrid she you know she creates a great chance for Stina Blaxdenius which is the best chance of the game it's a 0.58 xg chance she just gets under it a little bit you know not a terrible finish by any means but you know Arsenal this is the problem when you don't create loads of chances Those ones, the ones you don't put away really stick out.

16:45Smith herself has a shot, which is well saved by Lisa Kopp. But, and again, Rene referenced this after the game. Spurs obviously spot what's happening. That Arsenal's tactic has become give it to Olivia Smith and, you know, put your hands together and look to the sky. And Lisa Kopp goes down. I mean, obviously we see this a lot in the WSL and I'm not complaining because Arsenal do it all the time as well. But she actually goes down while play's still going on. That's quite rare. Usually the goalkeeper waits until there's a goal kick or something before they get a phantom bit of cramp. But Lisa Cobb goes down while the ball's still in play.

17:25And Rene referenced that afterwards. She said, yeah, goalkeeper goes down. Spurs change the way they're playing. They go to more or they try to go to more of what Bayern were doing, which is go long and create second balls. I mean, Spurs create nothing at all in the second half. I'm not even sure they have a shot. They have a couple of corners. But I think they plug up Arsenal's right-hand side. They understand what's going on. They make some changes. They put an extra player over there, and some of that threat extinguishes. I mean, Arsenal have two shots after the 70th minute in this game, and their last shot comes in the 81st minute from Mariana.

18:05and I felt Jamie the last few minutes I really detected some panic there was some misplaced passes Daphna had a few there was one that went a bit behind Steph Catley I think she could get maybe but it's just like and I'm not accusing her of not trying um I when I say there's a shrug I don't mean an apathetic shrug I mean a frustrated kind of oh this just isn't our day like I really I didn't think Arsenal were going to score in that last 15 minutes 45 to 65 minutes I felt we might score last 20-25 minutes I thought we can't even pass the ball at the moment and I think that really just looks like a symptom of a team very low on confidence.

18:52Yeah the mentality falls and I think that the goalkeeper injury to Lita Kopp is exactly what does that and I think there's two ways to look at this last 20 minutes good for Tottenham for like Like as much as that hurts to say, because last season, their in-game management and their problem solving under Robert Villahan became quite deplorable. Like when something kind of fell apart for them, they would just let it crumble to the ground rather than try to kind of fix the issues. And we saw that playing them twice, home and away, especially at home. Every time something went wrong, it just got worse and worse and worse.

19:21And I think Martin Ho has brought a style of football into this team where every player works for it. I think it was at the Emirates when the ball went to Hayley Rasso and she just kind of like falls on the ground on the touchline and lets it. And that doesn't happen in Martin Ho's Tottenham anymore. And that's a positive for them because I think their in-game management and the way they saw that is good. However, it's a pretty simple thing to fix. Mark Olivia Smith, Arsenal have no issues. So, yes, Tottenham, good, better than last season. Still, let's not celebrate a 0-0 draw in an all-Fundon derby.

19:53That frustrates me even if you're nowhere near the level. I just think the fact that they were able to say, if you just stick an extra man near Amanda Nilden and Claire Hunt and just not give Olivia Smith the breath, Arsenal, the squad that have won the Champions League, no other player on that pitch will find it in them to fix the problem. And that is so frustrating. And that happens, I think, when it started to fall apart against Bayern Munich. I don't think that was necessarily the players' fault. But I think, and I'm sure we have a million questions about this in the second half, I do think there's a point where you need to look at this team.

20:25And if you get rid of the Champions League, I know it's stupid to say that, but if you just pass on the Champions League and you're looking at, okay, is Rene Saga the problem? The same thing has happened on Joe Montemiro and Jonas Aydabal. These players give up at a certain point when things aren't going their way. And then you need an injection of energy that's something adverse that you shouldn't actually need in football. And I know that that's how football works, right? These things, these situations happen, but this is the perfect, this happens. This continues to happen. It happened on Jonas and it's happening now.

20:51And I think there are questions that need to be asked of the manager and the recruitment, but there is a certain responsibility that needs to be placed on the players in this last 20 minutes where, okay, why are you relying on the 21-year-old to take on the entire Tottenham team? And why can no one else in this team that won the Champions League solve the issues? And that was something that I think Tottenham, good for you, but I do think they got too much praise for it. I just think Arsenal didn't have answers and it's frustrating and the last 20 minutes were pretty, pretty dire in my opinion.

21:19Yeah, it's interesting. Sometimes there are some phrases that managers say that really stay with me in press conferences. And one of them was Jonas, maybe during his second season or third, at the end of his second season, I think, he said something like, we're at our best when there's energy in the game. And that always made me slightly worry for the reasons you've set out. Because it's like, you can't have that every minute of every game and every season. that's something that will only happen a few times in a season. What seasons are about if you want to win the league, what does your 7 out of 10 level look like?

21:58That's what wins you the league, right? You're playing, you know, having these massive spikes, that wins you cups and Arsenal have won cups doing that. And Rene was talking afterwards, and I completely understand what she's saying. She's completely right. She was pointing, you know, to the Champions League and saying, I think almost as a message to her players, it's like, look at how good we are when we're at our best. And I completely understand that. And that is completely correct. Like this team, these players went on 1-4-1 at Lyon. They beat Barcelona in the Champions League final and it wasn't a fluke.

22:31The problem is that the peak performance cannot and does not happen every single week. Your question is, can you be 7 out of 10 and win 2-0? and for me there's just too much distance between Arsenal performances there's too much of a yeah our best performance looks great but you can't do that every week and it reminds me a bit of a question I asked Renee the beginning of the season I asked her about not really having a proper number six and whether you know whether that had really been fixed in the transfer window and she said yeah but when we're like well organized we know we can we can stop that from happening and to an extent she's right and Arsenal were well organized yesterday and they did stop that happening the problem is again you're not going to be well organized every minute of every game so stuff like Bayern's first goal on Wednesday night like Arsenal's positioning is is dreadful it's amateur but that's going to happen and when it happens you need players who can run fast and run back right you need those players who can bail you out it's the same it's exactly the same in attack you buy good attackers because when it's not going for you they can do something for you and it's the same off the ball and i just feel like and jonas did this as well there's too much talk almost of like look at what our best performance looks like and i get that and you want to do that more often But for me, it's like, what does our average performance look like?

24:07And to me, our average performance looks below average. And there's too much veering between five and nine out of 10. And we'll probably go more into that in the second half, because there's more specific questions about that. But before we go for a break, Jamie, I mean, what would you identify as not even the biggest reason, the biggest thing that's perhaps bugging you or annoying you about this fun cast Lauren at the moment? The biggest thing that's annoying me at the moment is it feels like every game is something that I think that managers say a lot is like we focus on the game ahead of us.

24:47And that is just basically them saying, like, we don't want to, you know, overthink the long picture. But it really does feel like Arsenal are going into every game in isolation and not having any sort of identity. There's no sort of long range plan on, OK, how do we kind of make this squad work for a whole season? How do we keep the level consistent? How do we work on this team so that it can win games in a row, not just one result and then a couple of draws? it feels like every game is taken in such isolation that there is no there's no consistency like the team that we saw play against Chelsea did not play against Spurs they were both draws but it was completely different and I understand it differs in opposition but right now I just feel like this team and it could be manager it could be it could be squad building these are things that I think it is accumulation of and we'll go into it more in the second half but right now this team does not know who they are and that is so concerning for a team that won the Champions because I can I feel like every single Arsenal fan when that full-time whistle went in Lisbon said okay this is the start of something this is a manager this is the start of an era a really really successful era for this football club and right now it feels like this club are just as this team is just as unsure of themselves right now as they were when they drew to Everton and lost to Bayern and lost to Chelsea last season and that is frustrating because okay what's your identity what's the future proof and right now I just feel like this team the players they don't know their role and they don't know who they are and that's frustrating place to be and Tim yeah I I think um I don't know how much Renee looks back or how much coaches do this but I feel like she had an amazing situation this summer where she just won the Champions League with a squad with an average age of 28 29 and she had the power and the authority to really do because a rebuild has like the age of the team means a rebuild has to happen anyway has to and it feels like arsenal parks that work it just feels to me a little bit like renee froze to be honest and i have my doubts as to whether she'll be in a you know whether she'll get that chance again in terms of the the position of authority and power she had um to maybe make some big decisions and maybe some big decisions just weren't made and maybe we're paying the price for it at the moment um on that cheery note we will take a break here in the second half where all the questions are obviously really upbeat and about how good we are

27:18okay welcome back to part two of the arsenal women ask cast and askblog.com with your questions which were submitted on Blue Sky. And the first one I'm going to ask you, Jamie, is from Shane at TokenBG. Has the January window become even more important than it already was? Are we in a place now where we're in serious danger of coming fourth, which in turn could harm our recruitment for next season? Is accelerating one or two deals in January essential to ensure we finish at least third? I think that there needs to be business in January done. from an Arsenal perspective, but I also think it's frustrating because the mid-season transfer window, you don't want to be using it to change the future of your squad.

27:59You don't want to be saying, okay, these are the signings that are going to be our future players in this squad. That business needed to be done in the summer, and that's frustrating because you have a lengthy period of time in the summer. You have international tournaments where you can look at players that you don't usually get to look at, and you've just won the Champions League. That's the prime chance to sign these players. The January transfer window is, okay, you've got players in several competitions that are mid-season. It's going to be hard to get there. Maybe you've got the NWSL. Maybe you've got the Damers-Ventzkin.

28:28I don't think other than maybe Smilia-Holmberg because I have to hype her up now apparently. I don't think we should be looking at that route anymore. Like it's hard because the players available, it's not this big plethora that you want it to be. I do think that Arsenal need to do business in January because I think that Kim Little is a fantastic player and I think that she should start for this Arsenal team. But the fact that we are collapsing because a 35-year-old is not fit right now is an indictment of the depth. And I think it's frustrating because Kim Little deserves to be the most important player in this team.

29:00And I'm not saying that it's a bad thing that we're relying on her, but it is kind of ridiculous that we've gotten to the point where it's 2025 and if Kim Little's injured, Arsenal's midfielder are atrocious. So I think that needs to be changed. I really do think there needs to be a big signing there, a signing that can impact maybe an attacking player. The other frustration I have is I think obviously you raised that earlier, Tim. I think it's the perfect point. Kim Little doesn't play, Russo's the 10, but we have many other players that can play the 10. Okay, why are the profiles not fitting the way you want to play?

29:31Because business needs to be done there if that's the case. If the players you have aren't going to fit your system when one piece of the puzzle isn't there, then yeah, business needs to be done. So I think, yeah, the midfield needs to be addressed. the CDM needs to be addressed because, yeah, it's not good to be relying on one player for the entire team to fall apart. Yeah, agreed. I think it's a big window, a really big window. I think quite a bit of business needs to be done. I do think it will be. But do you have a question for me? I do. This one is from at Bekkadabi. This says, do you think part of the issue this season is that Arsenal have been too predictable in both tactics and substitutes?

30:11Is that a product of Slagers trying to take the emotion out of decisions? At times, it is felt like the way we play doesn't maximise the skills or talents enough of our players. How would you change it up to make them more effective? So do you think it is predictability and would you change that in any way? Yes, I do think there's an element of predictability. I think the substitutions, it's weird because at the beginning of Renee's reign, We were really praising her substitutions and how much earlier she was making them than Jonas. And she has explained before there is an element. She says they plan for scenarios, right?

30:49So it's not just we are going to do Frida for Stina on 60 minutes come what may. It's if the game looks like this, we're going to do this. If the game looks like this, we're going to do this. So there is an element of pre-programming the subs, which Renee has said before. She finds that useful because, yeah, it takes the emotion out of the decision. and I understand that. I think most coaches do that, to be fair. I think most coaches will not be completely rigid. So Taylor and Olivia Smith coming on at halftime, I don't think that was pre-planned. I think Smith for Mead and Hines for McCabe, yeah, they're predictable subs.

31:24I don't think she was planning to do them at halftime. I think circumstances took over that meant that that happened. But I think I'm less... there is an element of predictability to the substitutions in munich on wednesday like obviously i i update uh the lineup and stuff for the the post-match quotes and as soon as i saw the players ready to come on i wrote the substitutions down i knew what i knew what they were basically um but i'm less i think that's a peripheral or cerebral thing for me there is predictability in the way Arsenal play or rather I think Rene's got to that stage that so many WSL coaches get to where you get to a year people realize what you're doing and they adapt and then it's can you respond can you either do it better or can you respond and evolve and so many managers don't do it in the WSL we saw it under Jonas as well like the best season was his first season and after that people cottoned on to it same with Joe Montemoro is why I'm side-eyeing slightly about Yegler at Man City and Martin Ho at Tottenham the the challenge for them is to come when teams recognize how they've changed a little bit more and and listen maybe those coaches will be fine with it but I think that's you know TBC and yeah I think basically it is kind of as simple as that Teams have worked it out.

32:58And at the moment, there isn't an answer. I think another thing I'd go into here as well a little bit is I think the issue with this team is there's like three or four players that are real load-bearing walls that we ask to do lots and lots of jobs. So Mariana, we ask her to be the whole midfield, basically. Russo, we ask her to be a 10 and a 9. And then Kim Little, she comes out, the whole thing collapses. Leah comes out, we can't pass out from the back for five games. It takes ages to sort that out. And then Emily Fox, we're asking her to invert and overlap. Oh, and by the way, guys, can you all do this for every single minute of every single game?

33:43and then the rest of the players just don't look clear on what their jobs are to be honest and viewing with interest like conversations online about specific individual players which I get but for me if you've got one player that's inconsistent or underperforming that's on the player but we've got five or six at the moment who are wildly inconsistent from game to game and I'm sorry that comes down to a systemic or coaching issue when that happens and it just looks to me like there are like three or four players we asked to do the job of eight players and then there are like five or six where it's like yeah you guys just you know do what you need to do when the ball comes to you it doesn't look like a unit to me and that that's why the team is like collapsing when you take out a player like Leah when you take out a player like Kim because the roles aren't clear enough and good players like Kyra Cooney Cross, Victoria Pilova like are coming in and it's a bit like oh what am I meant to be doing again you know the wingers are really inconsistent at the moment and yeah it just looks to it just looks to me like with with the Kim and Mariana thing Jamie I've been wondering for ages like is Renee doing that because that represents what she wants from her double pivot or is she doing that because it's the only thing that's kind of worked and I think I've made my mind up which one it is and I think there's a lot of knots here to untangle um to be honest um let me ask you well well I was going to ask one from uh Max Radwan but I think you've kind of answered it which is tactically but culturally would it be fair to say Rene's failed to instear a clear identity on this Arsenal side I think you've kind of answered that um and i guess let's look at this one then from han solo have we psychologically spiraled in this block such a good one uh yeah i would say so i would say that's exactly what's happening um i think there's it just feels like we spoke about this in the mailbag saying this block is so massive not just for individuals but for the side um and it has gone pretty terribly um to say it like nicely obviously there's one game left but that game is a must win as well at this stage in the Champions League so I would say that it feels like right now the adversity has happened and it happened against Bayern Munich it maybe happened against Chelsea with the referee decisions it obviously happened against Tottenham and the players have no idea how to kind of say okay that was bad that that happened to us and we played really badly that game how do we then build from that and not let that happen again.

36:33Instead of that, it's a bit like, well, we can't really bounce back from this and this has happened to us and we're just going to kind of plough through the exact same thing, trying to put a square through a circle and hope that it kind of pays off. And I think so much of that comes to mentality, but that just opens up a wider conversation. Why is this happening psychologically? Because last season, Renee came in as interim and she instilled this new vibe into the training ground. The players were happy to come to work again that they were playing with more confidence they knew their role they knew what they were doing so why has that unraveled and why has it unraveled so badly this block I don't think it's just this block we saw this last block it was starting out it started honestly at Lee Sports Village when there was no answers against the Man United block it started at the Joey when it was a completely different team to to what we've seen historically Aston Villa had no idea how to break them down this has been happening all season and it's so hard to pinpoint why a team that they won the Champions League last season because of vibe and because of the fact that this underdog narrative carried them and they were playing for each other.

37:31What happened in the summer for that not to happen anymore? And that was the biggest question we all asked of Renee this season. Can you do it when there's no longer like the big media push of you being this hero that's saving the team? And I don't think the onus comes just on her. There is a mentality issue in this squad right now. And it's so hard to kind of, when you're not in the building, when you're not with the players, how do we say, okay, it's a psychological thing. But it does seem like that. The players aren't making second efforts. They're not tracking back. You've got one or two individuals doing all the defensive work.

37:58Olivia Smith and Emily Fox running their legs off against Spurs, whereas the left side don't want to track back nearly as much. And it's frustrating because there's no answers. And I think the biggest thing for this season, last season was perfect for Arsenal. Everything in that Champions League campaign went their way. There were no major injuries. They got very lucky with the personnel. Everyone was fit to play. Daphne van Domstelaar was just ready enough to come back for the Champions League final. this season it's not been like that and that's football like last season was a bit of a unicorn right like we've seen what happens to this Arsenal squad when there's injuries this season it's not like that anymore and the team don't have the mental resilience come back from it and maybe did they have it last season or was it just easier to deal with because nothing went wrong so yeah I think psychologically it seems to be the biggest thing right now it's a deeper conversation on squad building and management in my opinion however the players are paid professional footballers and they still have to do a job no matter what and right now it doesn't feel like they're showing up.

38:53Yeah, I think there is definitely a psychological angle to it. I think it starts tactically and I think that they just look low on confidence to me at the moment. There's bits of get, like the first half against Bayern is really good. The second half against Chelsea is really good. 20 minutes of the second half here is really good, but there isn't that kind of that consistent, almost flatline level of performance. Do you have a question for me? I do this one's quite interesting I think this might be a wider picture WSL thing right now but it's from at Selena Friday and it says should we factor in the fact that the three WSL teams playing in Europe are starting to struggle especially with the new Champions League format yeah it's a factor definitely I for Arsenal I'd put it low down the list of factors but it's definitely a factor um not least because people are playing two pot one teams so we like excuse me we play Leon and Bayern those are two really really good teams Chelsea are going to play Barcelona I forget who their other pot one team is but you know Man United are going through a period where they've got like PSG and Wolfsburg back to back you know it's it's definitely a factor it's interesting I had a discussion with a friend of mine at half time on Wednesday who's a Bayern season ticket holder and at this point obviously Arsenal are 2-0 up and flying and she was saying to me this is because Bayern aren't challenged in the Frauenbundersliga she was like they played on Friday night they won like 6-1 or something and she was like and Arsenal are challenged every week in the WSL and she was like this is showing in the intensity and the interesting thing is I think that kind of flipped in the second half and I do think a part of the issue against Bayern was fatigue as well there were some very tired players and that's kind of where it works against you where it's like okay we've played Chelsea on Saturday and we've clawed back a last minute equaliser and these guys have played Friday night because the Frauenbundesliga like some other leagues in Europe, they kind of, they help with the kickoff times, they put things back.

41:06And the fact that they've had a nice easy game actually counts for them in the second half. So I do think there's an element of that. Yeah. But I think it gives and it takes away. I think it can help you in terms of having that intensity all the time. I remember when Barca lost to Lyon a couple of years ago in the final, a lot of the Barca the players kind of said, we weren't used to this intensity. We had the League One in March. So when Lyon came at us, we couldn't cope with it. But then in the Men's Champions League last year, PSG win it. And a big part of them winning it is because they've got the League One in February and they were able to focus on the Champions League.

41:44So I do think this is like very yin and yang. But I do also think the level of the WSL is better. Even just London City Lionesses alone makes that the case. and I think everyone's playing more intense, pressing football. There are fewer, we're just going to put 10 at the back and hope not to lose 3-0. So it's a factor, definitely. But like I say, I wouldn't say it's a defining factor for Arsenal. We've got some very, I think very understandably, some very like, should we say, thousand foot view kind of questions maybe about the structure around Rene. and this one's from Summer at Lot3WM. Will we ever reach the end of the line with Claire Wheatley?

42:30Our shortfalls in recent seasons largely stem from poor squad building. When Arteta and Edu became misaligned, Edu left and was replaced with Berta, who gave the men's team our most successful transfer window in years. Meanwhile, we've had 11 years with Claire Wheatley, been through four head coaches and probably heading towards finding a fifth, one league title to show for it from seven seasons ago. and even the Champions League win didn't seem to spark our recruitment to life. So what will? So really, I guess this is a question about recruitment and I guess what happens above the head coach.

43:05I think this is such a fair question and such a fair attitude that Arsenal fans have. They've had probably all season. I think there's a few that have been quite vocal about it, but especially after this game. And I think it's completely valid. I think I remember like one of the first podcasts we did together, Tim, You said something that the Arsenal fans probably want more of is just transparency from Claire Wheatley. Like, we don't hear from her ever. We don't know who she is. She's like the big brother in 1984. Like, she just kind of, is she even a real person? I don't really know. I just feel like there's no transparency there.

43:36So it does feel like, okay, this squad depth isn't there. Who do we blame? Because we don't really know the reasoning behind it. We don't know the character behind it. And I think when you look at a decade of underperformance from a WSL point of view, it's really, really easy to place a blame there. And I think it's completely fair. I think that last season when Chelsea had a, Kadisha Buchanan did her ACL, they went and bought Naomi Gomer in the summer, in the January transfer window for a world record-breaking fee. They went and signed Kira Walsh in January for a world record-breaking fee. Arsenal don't do that.

44:07They play, they sign these really great players on free transfers, but they don't fight aggressively in the market when other clubs are competing. The only time that's ever happened is with Olivia Smith. and I think it's frustrating because you look at this kind of like, it's not just signing players. I think it's also retaining players because it's easy and I'm not even like pointing fingers at specific players in this squad right now, but I do think there's a senior maybe bracket of players in this Arsenal squad right now that are just happy being Arsenal players and they will never leave the club because they are very happy being Arsenal players and Claire Wheatley is very happy having them at the club.

44:42And that's not saying I think we should uproute the entire squad. I think there's an element of the fact that you do need to upgrade. And yes, this player is very good. But OK, how do you go and win the WSL? Because it hasn't happened in seven years. So what happens then? Do you upgrade or do you keep the players happy? And I think that's something that Chelsea have just done so well. They continue to upgrade their squad. They can do like Trinity Robbenov, bet you she ends up at Chelsea. And they'll sign the money for it. They've just signed Riddinkaner on an extension. But they'll upgrade her because they know that they have to if they need to.

45:11And that's something that's not happened in this Arsenal squad. In the summer transfer window, Leah Volte says, I've done all I can at this team, at this club, loved my journey, I'm going to move on. And Arsenal say, great, that makes it easier for us because maybe in the future we don't have to cull you, but we're also not going to fix or fill your hole and we're going to make every other player there kind of do your job. And I think, I cannot remember who said this, but someone said, Mariana Caldente playing in the pivot, like it's good, it's because she's good there, but you're also wasting one of the best attacking midfielders in the world because the club do not want to put the effort, money, funds, or just research into the market to go buy a player that can naturally play there in order to then boost up the rest of the players.

45:49So I think the squad build has been, yeah, it's complacent. I don't think it's horrible because I think there's been some good signings, but I think it's complacent. And that's something that, yeah, like even Man City, I think their defence is deplorable, but they keep upgrading their forwards. They keep signing new players. Okay, let's go get Carolyn, even though we already have Chloe Kelly and Fugino and Lauren Hemp. Like, let's just upgrade those players. Arsenal don't do that. They want to keep everyone happy. And I think this is a team that wants powerhouse that are quite toothless and not scary in the market.

46:16No one's scared of Arsenal when Claire Wheatley shows up at the table. So, yeah, I can completely understand the frustrations. Yeah, I think my take on this, like at the moment, again, I'm slightly concerned by an interview Jonas gave after he left, where he talked about like being a bit overloaded in terms of like Arsenal have all these departments now. But he was really felt like he was responsible for joining it all up. and I wonder if that's changed I don't honestly know I think for me my disappointment with Renee is like I said earlier she she had a once in a career opportunity you're a young coach and she's not an inexperienced coach by the way like she managed Brosengord she won league titles as a manager this is not her first job I see that said a lot and it's not she had a once in a career opportunity as a young coach who'd won the Champions League with an aging squad and she had all the authority in the world to go right this is I've arrived this is going to be Rene Slager's Arsenal now and that turnover it doesn't have to be pejorative it doesn't have to be because players are crap or complacent or too comfortable it's just age like it has to happen anyway even if they were challenging you know like winning WSL titles that time is coming anyway and she had such a massive position of authority to go right this is going to be my squad playing my football and I've I've got you know I've got a contract and I've got the Champions League I can go and do that and just didn't do it just didn't do it and for me it's not about I'm not interested in my own opinion about which players should go which players should stay blah blah blah I'm interested in the coach's opinion on that right so for example again on the men's side when Mikel Arteta chinned Abameyang and got rid of him I was a bit dubious about that because I was like where are our goals going to come from but I backed it as a fan because I was like if that's what you want if that's what you need to do to make this squad yours and he chinned Mesut Ozil when there was no other number 10 and he just had to swallow it for a few months until he could get another one but for me it's like like I look at Unai Emery in the men's team and it's like you you can't even decide who the captain is you're useless like you cannot make a decision about anything whereas with Arteta it was like I can question those decisions but if that's what you need to do to make this your squad do it get it done and that's how I feel about this so it's not about like do I think this player should stay this but I don't really know but it's like I want to know what Rene wants what do you want this team to look like what type of football do you want it to play and I still don't really know and I think she's just missed an opportunity and if if Rene you know she delegates a lot she says she prefers to leave like a lot of the recruitment side to a recruitment team and I kind of think that's fine but then there needs to be firmer decisions above her if that's going to be the case there needs to be a firmer you know what okay you coach the team we're going to sort some of this out now and we're going to and and it just doesn't it feels to me like maybe that piece is missing a little bit there has been some change behind the scenes at Arsenal so Richard Garlick is now the CEO Richard Garlick used to be like Claire Wheatley's line manager effectively so he was very involved with the operations of the women's team so you know I hope there's some kind of reorganization there it doesn't have to be like someone getting sacked or or anything I would like to see an addition there I'd like to see like you know Chelsea have Paul Green who's a very canny operator you know someone someone like that it doesn't have to be instead of Claire but maybe alongside Claire I don't have like a you know 20-20 vision on what goes on but to me it feels like there's something missing and the job of Arsenal coach now is not really just to be a coach it's this this needs to like the squad needs rebuilding just because of age it needs rebuilding and it needs someone to take firm decisions and I'm afraid those decisions just just haven't been taken so um while we're on um while we're on a bit of a role and I have had two coffees by the way you can probably tell I'm going to ask you this one Jamie from Helen M at HXM829 thoughts on Rene contract extension current contracts up the end of the season I'm in favour we were 2-0 up v Bayern and she needs to make subs to manage loads for me it's a squad issue as she should be able to make subs without the team then letting three goals in in 30 minutes.

51:14She then asks, are there plans for Berta to look at the women's team? I have asked this. At the moment, no, because I think his plate is a bit full with the men's side. Edu did eventually have some involvement with the women's team and I'm told that happened quite organically because he started to take an interest and things settled down on the men's side. I don't know what's going to happen there. But yeah, what do you think on a potential, like René's contract up at the end of the season, and what would you do with that? Yeah, quite a few questions on that. It's interesting. I just think it's hard because there's so many things, I think, that need to be addressed if you're looking into a decision of, okay, if Arsenal finish this season without a trophy, okay, what do you do with the head coach situation?

52:01Because I think for this squad, despite the fact that we think maybe it's not at the level it should be, it still should be winning trophies domestically and it should be competing in Europe, right? We saw that last season. So do you have to look at the head coach? Yes, I completely agree. Who else is then available in the market that you think can come to Arsenal and have an effect on these players, instill something? Because like I said earlier, what's happening with Rene right now is what has happened to the last two managers very quickly after a good first season, very heroic, this is the start of something great, fall off a mountain, everything falls.

52:34What is causing that? Because it can't just be a bad run in managers. So I do think, I think this is the manager that won the Champions League. And if it was easy, Emma Hayes would have done it. Like, it's not a hard, it's not an easy thing to do, right? It's a really massive feat to be able to do that. And I don't think it's just luck. She needs to do a lot. And Renee does a lot to win the Champions League. However, if she exits this season trophy-less, I understand the conversations, but I still think there is something fundamentally at the root of this club right now, not the club, the women's side, that is wrong and is not operating these players to their full capacity.

53:08I think that there is so much potential in this squad, despite the fact that it needs to be increased. And I just think if you don't back the manager, what happens next? It's going to happen again. It's going to continue to happen again. You can't just say, let's get a new head coach, have a really good season and then fall off again. I think so much needs to change in the back room. That comes from squad advisement. That comes from recruitment. Maybe that comes from her coaching team as well. I know she was a part of the coaching team, but this is basically your own side of our staff right now.

53:35The things need to change there. So I think if she wins a trophy, you keep her. You extend her for a year. I wouldn't extend her for more than that. But I don't think there's a manager right now that I'm going to say, yes, get rid of Rene if we go trophyless because there will be an immediate fix and it will fix all the issues. I think there's been too many issues for too long in this Arsenal side that this keeps happening. Fix that and find the root cause of that before we say, OK, it's just the head coach, because I don't think that's true. The head coach has a 100 % responsibility, but I don't think it's completely true.

54:03Also, on what Helm said about Bayern Munich, I do think that that was the foal of the coach. I think the substitutions were wrong in that. I don't think it was, you should be able to manage loads and hope the players. Everything is situational. And if you can't manage the game and pick the right personnel, I do think that's on the manager. So long story short, I think there's bigger issues, but I can understand why the question's being weighed up. Yeah, I wouldn't extend the contract at the moment. I think there's work to do. If in three months' time, all of these issues have been solved, we're smashing teams 5-0 again good january window blah blah blah yeah at that point but like i don't think you can do it at the moment and i guess it's another thing and again i don't have 2020 insight onto this but everything just feels very slow you know like behind the scenes in terms of appointing renee permanently took ages and i don't understand why and then over the summer I was fully expecting her contract to be extended.

55:08I believe there's a will to do that. I'm not really clear on why it hasn't happened. I know there's been will to extend the contracts of a few key players as well. You know, Russo's done. The others don't know why. They're not, again, I was expecting September, October. Like, it seems to have taken a very, very long time. Chloe Kelly, slam dunk signing in the summer, took ages to get it done. Like, it does feel like things move quite slowly behind the scenes, it has to be said. But, you know, you can't give René a new contract at the moment. She has to show that she can sort this out. But I'm with you as well.

55:49Like, even if you make the decision that René's not the person to take Arsenal forward, that's not the only change I think would need to be made. um how about why don't we wrap up here a little bit um this one's from uh at ariela w to what degree do you feel like uh this season has been play a mental complacency versus being a relatively inexperienced manager versus a misused squad versus insufficient recruitment so i think the The four pillars have been identified there. All four areas are factors. But if I'm going back and forth, trying to see if one stands out above the rest as a root cause.

56:33I think, yeah, 100 % all four play a big part in it. The biggest thing I think it is, is it just comes down to identity. And I think if a team and a manager have an identity, you can then work out those four players. OK, what players do we need to recruit to fit that system and that identity, the style of football we want to play? It's not just the style of football. It's, okay, how do we include every single player in this squad to work towards that goal? Because I completely echo what you said earlier, Tim. There is a starting 11 in this team, maybe starting 12 or 13, that have roles and no one else does.

57:03I think that having an identity that, okay, Kyrie Cooneycross can affect this game in this way. She can then come in to work against teams that need, she needs to carry the ball more, she needs to play longer passes. Okay, someone like Taylor Hines can come on for Katie McCabe when you want someone that's going to play a higher line maybe. That needs to be what's going on in this side, and that's not what's going on in this side. Someone like Victoria Pilova two seasons ago, I thought she was the messiah, and now I actually struggle to watch her because she looks lost. She looks absolutely clueless out there, and that's a player that we might lose as a result of the fact that there's no identity.

57:36And then it comes down to mentality. Why would a player want to play for a team where they don't feel like they have a role? Jenna Nyswonger showing up to training every day must be awful right now. Same as Kyra Kunicross and Victoria Plova. What's my role in this squad? Because I can guarantee as soon as Kim Little's back, Kyra Kunicross and Victoria Plova don't have a role in this squad. Right now, I'm looking at Lassie Russo and saying, okay, what can I do? What's missing here? So I think that that also feeds into it. There's player mentality and this recruitment that can be fixed by the fact that a club has an identity and a manager has an identity.

58:09And then I think Renee is so unsure of what she wants to do as well. Like she shows up to games and it's kind of like, do I trust my players? Are there players here that are Jonas Eideval signings that I don't trust? I don't know what I want to do with them. Then can I play them when I need them in the harder moments? Can I trust them to come on? So I think the biggest thing for me is it's none of those things. I think the end goal that this club doesn't have right now is the issue. Like Renee doesn't know what she wants to take this team. There's no philosophy going forward. Therefore, how can you then do the other four things?

58:39I don't think one comes out on top I think it's just a bigger broader issue if you have a exact like Renee says okay this is what I want to achieve how then do I pick my players to be able to get there how then do I improve their mentality when they show up for work every day that is the thing that I think needs to be fixed and I think those other four components will be fixed because of that right now I just think like I've said it a million times on this podcast it's so frustrating I don't think this club and this and this women's side right now know where they want to be and who they want to be and that is is then feeding in and just bleeding into every other area yeah I mean again I'll say that this isn't about like my opinion of of individual players but for me it's like if you if you've got no use for Victoria Pilova sell her if you can't work out how to use Kyra Kuni cross sell her like make some decisions and if you've got no role for Jenna Niswonger sell her Like, why are we keeping these players around?

59:40It's probably just bad vibes as well to have so many players kind of sitting there going, I don't know what my role is. And I don't know if I'm going to play. And if I am, then I have to rescue the whole, it has to be like a big rescue operation. I think what we've really suffered from here is just a lack of decisions being made, a lack of clarity, a lack of the assertiveness to say, this player is a good player, but she doesn't fit into my team. So she's gone and I'm getting someone that does fit in. That's what I put the biggest problem down to. Shall we do one more? Yeah, go on. Would you like me to go?

1:00:21Or do you have one ready for you, Tim? yeah let's let's end on a i say a lighter note a slightly different note this one's from katina mcstenius at laguna beach thoughts on london hosting the champions cup obviously no travel is an advantage for us but is a neutral venue club tournament in england during the winter a good idea would a trip to a warm climate actually benefit the squad more than two extra games in london and will english fans embrace the tournament so this is about the champions cup in February, end of January, February, being in London. Do you think it'd be better for the players to get away?

1:00:58How do you see all of this? I would love them to go on a trip. I remember when the men's side went to Dubai and then started winning games again. I'd love that to happen. I think that it being in London is not good. It's good for travel, all that. We talk about international breaks and periods off and we want less travel and the schedule to be less condensed. Yes, it's good that they have to stay in London. However, I think that this team, like it's November, it's not even December yet, this team need to get away from their environment and figure out, like just get a break. And I think that this tournament would have been fun for that to be elsewhere.

1:01:32Not far, maybe it can stay in Europe, but I don't think it needs to be in cold, rainy London in the middle of January because I'm glad I'm not going to be there. And in terms of the interest, I don't see any like Chelsea fans wanting to watch this, unless they're big Gotham fans because they might win the NWSL, so that's exciting. However, yeah, I think for the team it would have been nice So just get a suntan, have a non-alcoholic pina colada. I don't know. I just don't think it's going to work very well. Yeah, I think there's a bit of a story to be told about the organisation of this, which has been, from what I understand, pretty chaotic anyway, which is why we still have a complete lack of details about the stadiums that are going to be used and how it's all going to work.

1:02:18yeah maybe that's something I can say more about another time but I personally I'm glad it's in London I'm glad I don't have to have to travel particularly I think because if Arsenal are to qualify for the next phase of the Champions League they're probably going to have to do the punishment round in February the kind of the round of 16 which you know is is another factor as well that perhaps makes January important as well. As for will fans from London take to it, I mean, I think as the song goes, Arsenal are massive everywhere they go. I think there'll be plenty of Arsenal fans there. Not because it's the Champions Cup though, because it's Arsenal and Arsenal will be there in force.

1:03:02And I do think, assuming Arsenal win their semi-final and a likely final with Gotham, I do think that that would create a bit of a buzz. I really think women's football has to work out a way to get NWSL and WSL teams and big European teams playing each other more. I'm actually a fan of a Club World Cup idea in women's football. I think there's space for it, and I think it would help the growth of the game. So if you did get an Arsenal-Gotham game, I do think that would be really good, but I'm not anticipating a huge promotional run-up to it because I don't think it's going to be organised well enough or quickly enough for that.

1:03:43So, yeah, let's leave it there, Jamie. I feel like the little vein in my forehead has just kind of started to relax a little bit. Thanks as ever for helping us through this therapy session. Thanks for that, Tim. Always nice to relive the trauma with you. And what we'll do, we'll probably do like another mailbag next week or something during the international break after the Real Madrid game. obviously I'll be at the Madrid game on Wednesday as usual doing all the usual coverage and like I said at the top if you're listening to this on Monday do vote for us in the FSA Awards as best fan media particularly if you value what we do on the women's side which we still believe is unique in the women's game and yeah we'll leave it there and we'll come back next week after we thrash Real Madrid and the world looks a little bit brighter hopefully

1:04:37Thank you.