Arsenal Women Arsecast Episode 145: Gunners go back to Blackstenius to vanquish Liverpool

0:13Hello and welcome to the Arsenal Women Askcastcast on askblog.com with me your host Tim Stillman looking back at Saturday's 2-1 win over Liverpool at Emirates Stadium. We are doing a Sunday recording this week, which is a mixture of the fact that Arsenal are playing again on Tuesday. So recording on Monday when there's press conferences and open training sessions and, you know, a game coming so quickly, we felt we'd get this out a little bit earlier. And it just so happens my wife and daughter are out anyway. So what better thing to do with my time than to record a podcast for you lovely people and doing that with us as ever is our co-host Jamie Spanger.

0:50Jamie, how are you doing? I'm good, Tim. I'm good. I've been better, but three points is three points, so I'm happier than I've been over the last couple of weeks and I think that's something. Also, the Aussies just smashed the English in the ashes. Very excited. I've literally been a couch potato all weekend watching football. We won't speak about the Premier League. It doesn't exist this weekend, but Formula One, everything, I just feel like my old man. I feel like my father. So, yeah, I'm positive forgetting the fact that men's football exists. Yeah, we were just saying off mic, I listened to Aston Villa's Stoppage Time winner go in during Gareth Taylor's press conference, which was slightly chastening because I wanted to punch a wall or cry or something.

1:31And I had to kind of sit there, poke a face, which was, you know, which was not my favourite way to experience that moment. But then again, there isn't a good way to experience a moment like that. But anyway, that's not what we're going to talk about. We're going to talk about an Arsenal team that won a game 2-1 with a late goal from Steiner Blaxtenius. And I want to start, actually, Jamie, I'm going to kind of mix things up a little bit and start with the Friday press conference, which I thought was really interesting for a couple of reasons. Now, first off, let's deal with the first thing. I asked Rene about Daphne van Domslaar, who'd been omitted from a second consecutive Netherlands squad, and Chloe Kelly, who went off for England on Wednesday night.

2:13And she said that neither of those players are expected back before New Year. We don't have a longer time frame on that than that at the moment. I suspect with Van Domslaar, it won't be much longer than that. Chloe Kelly, I think, is a bit of an unknown. René said it was a ligament at the back of the knee. So I don't think exactly the same injury as the one she's kind of been managing this season. whether it's connected at this point I don't know I don't know whether it's the same knee if it is it probably is connected somehow but you know no Chloe Kelly for the rest of the year we kind of not played with her very much this season anyway but I think what's attracted more of the conversation is the goalkeeper situation obviously with Manu out as well and Rene also so surprisingly straightforward I asked if Arsenal would go into the market for a goalkeeper in January and she said yes so goalkeeper situation first of all what's your kind of feeling on that yeah it's an interesting one isn't it because you you kind of you see the news about Daphna and you think okay well there's a backup keeper there in Manu Zinsberger no there's not she's obviously done her ACL and we know that Borba played a pre-season game under Rene but since then it's hardly been trusted to even make squads when traveling so it's a sticky situation and Tim we spoke about this recently about okay does she actually trust this goalkeeper is this a goalkeeper she wants to go forward with.

3:37And now she's kind of been thrusted into this position where she has to trust her for some must-win games in December. They're not against top opponents, but they're must-win. Arsenal must win all of these games, especially in the Champions League. So I think for Arsenal right now, and we'll speak about Borba's full comprehensive performance against Liverpool and whether we thought that was good or not, but Renee Sagers needs to go into the January market and find a keeper that she trusts. Because if Zinsberg is out for the entire season and we don't know about Daphna's fitness, has been on and off for the better half of maybe nine or ten months, I just think Arsenal need to go in for a keeper that Rene wants a part of this system because I think Borba and Van Domsalaar as if you're going to play them comparatively completely different goalkeepers especially in distribution so yeah I think it's it's wise to go in for a goalkeeper and it's just whether or not that will be a player that is going to be competing for a number one spot or just another backup and I just don't really trust the recruitment right now to be a player that's really going to be trusted under the manager so I'm hesitant about it.

4:33Yeah I think there's a few things I think about this the goal the backup goalkeeper situation has been so muddled let me be very clear there was a very very excellent chance at the end of last season in the beginning of the summer that Manu Zinsberger was going to go that changed okay that tells you Renee doesn't really want Manu Zinsberger anyway to be honest and she's going to be injured till the end of the season so I think if you're pitching to a goalkeeper to come in you can kind of say that to be honest you can kind of say you know subtly and on the download to the actual player and agent involved I don't really rate the other two goalkeepers I've got so if you're coming in you will be fighting for the first choice you know you'll probably be second choice fighting for first that's like that's the position I think is really up for grabs to be honest it does make me wonder about you know uh maybe a goalkeeper like and this is just me throwing a name out this is nothing i've heard but someone like jennifer falk for example whose contract at heck and is up she was absolutely all well obviously not certain because it didn't happen but about this time last year like she was going to top them again something changed there i don't know what but i believe her contract's up i don't know if that's um an option or nwsl's finished hasn't it don't or what the goalkeeper situation looks like there.

5:59I suppose as a last resort, they could recall Naomi Williams from Bristol City if they want to. Don't think that would be great for her, but maybe a needs-must situation. So that would be really interesting. What that also means is Arsenal can only register three new players for Champions League squad, assuming they get through for the rest of the year. And one of those is going to be taken by Holmberg. We now know another goalkeeper is likely to come in. And that only leaves one more space for another signing. And it's probably a bit concerning. That doesn't feel like enough somehow, or it feels like there's a decision to make there, which we'll come on to a bit more in the questions.

6:39But I think the other thing, Jamie, and in fact, we have a question on this. So I'm going to fast forward to the question, actually, and again, change things up. And it's from at Football Hater on Blue Sky. Probably good weekend for you. Thoughts on Renee Slager's response to the Athletic article. Now, did you see this? What did you make of her kind of response? Well, I think a manager's not going to turn around and say, yeah, everything that was said in that article is true. And I think she gave a really well-rehearsed answer. Like, she knew she was going to be posed with this question of what's your response?

7:13How's the dynamics within the club and the four walls? And her response was exactly what we expect her to say. Like, we know that we're heading in the right direction. I'm comfortable with that direction. So she had to say that. I think it's maybe interesting whether or not she could have been pressed more because I think a lot of the article, something that I think fans took a bit too much away from was the whole dressing room drama and the seating plan and stuff. And there was a lot of good stuff in that article about recruitment and Claire Wheatley's role and things like that. And I think obviously we know that Renee's maybe not a manager that wants to be involved in that kind of recruitment stuff.

7:46And in my opinion, that's a too bad situation. So I think, yeah, it's interesting because she had to play a front. I guess I would have liked in a perfect world for her to maybe turn around and say, like, there are things we're reviewing and there are things that we know that we need to fix because we've not won a league title in many, many, many seasons. And I think an honesty barrier is something that Arsenal women have lacked for a long time. And that's why it always feels like every manager is a little bit out of touch with the fans and the fans never quite trust them because sometimes you just need to see your manager say, look, we know there's internal problems and we know we've not been winning as many trophies and we've not been competing for the league the way we want to.

8:22So therefore we need to review things internally. So I think the whole facade of, yeah, we're going in the right direction and we're confident, well, it doesn't really look like that. So yeah, I understand why she said what she said. I just think it's been a recurring problem where maybe the fans want to hear more from the manager that they're not going crazy and the manager knows that things need to be done internally. Yeah, and I think some of that probably falls above Rene's head as well a little bit. um we had a question i i'm not gonna do it just because i don't fully like i don't have the level of insight i would like to answer the question but someone was like what you know what's claire wheatley's role what does she do day to day and stuff like that and yeah i do wonder if she could be more visible in these moments um i i think my take on it jamie was i don't think she denied the article really she expressed um you know a little annoyance that it was written and pointed to the fact the club's doing a lot of good things which they are but i don't think she really denied it and she kind of said look in elite organizations we demand a lot of each other you know most dressing rooms are like that and i i think that's true as well um to be honest so i don't and and she talked about we know where we're going so i i didn't take it as a blanket denial at all to be honest with you um what what i did like in the press conference jamie was first of all um i think it was uh helen jerome asked her about you know what did you do during the international break and she said she had like a week's leftover parental leave uh because her and her partner had another child during the summer i believe and she decided to take that week of parental leave at the beginning of the international break now i don't think her phone was off or anything like that i don't think she was completely unreachable but i to me that sounded like a smart idea um right just to take that little break get that little bit of distance the other thing she said in the answer and we know this is true she's like the most offline person in the world um i i'm not even convinced she has wi-fi at home you know like she'd like no digital a bit like kim actually like no digital presence whatsoever um but she said you know i have to be across certain things so i did read this one which which suggests you know it's it's been taken seriously and ultimately if stuff like this comes out like the athletic let me tell you their sourcing requirements are so high and they have a legal department and all of that this stuff doesn't come out by itself for no reason and it's not made up and i there's probably more that could have been in that article to be honest so but what I what I wanted to see Jamie and what I hope I'm seeing I want it to galvanize the club I want it to galvanize Rene I want it to be an almost okay this is the external perception of us now I really hope Rene's saying that to the players as well I hope she I really hope she's using it almost Arteta style pin it up on the wall and say this is what people are talking about this is what people think go and prove them wrong go and do your talking on the pitch type thing and um not to fast forward too much I teed her up a little bit on a question because I asked her what a halftime team talk was like after the Real Madrid game she said sometimes a coach has to make a decision about the tone of their halftime team talk and for Real Madrid she said actually I thought it had to be just tactical let's make some tweaks there's some stuff we there's some stuff we're doing well, some stuff we can do.

11:59This time she said, this is the firmest halftime team talk I've ever given. And I wanted her to say that because I was a bit disappointed after Bayern. And Renee is logical and rational at all times, right? And I completely get that. And that's her, that's her strength and all that. But after Bayern, I wanted her to call some people out. And that might be the fan in me being emotional. I wanted to hear that was not good enough. And it was, yeah, we were quite good enough. It was a very rational reflection on the game, which I think is fine in isolation, but it's a bit like parenting, Jamie. Sometimes you don't want to get angry all the time because it just flies over your child's head.

12:40But if you do it once in a while, it carries some weight. And once in a while, you have to ban the TV for a week and you have to take the PlayStation away and stuff like that. And I was really pleased to hear her say yesterday that this was my firmest ever halftime team talk. And what I really hope to round off this monologue is that she gets a bit more alpha at times. That's what I'd like to see. And I detected a little bit of that in the press conference, a little bit of that yesterday. And I hope that's a good sign. Anyway, starting line-up. We knew there'd be no Daphna. We knew that Chloe Kelly wouldn't be in the squad, but Cooney Cross kept her place, got Leah Williamson back on the bench.

13:24Kim Little on the bench as well. And then the left side of Smith and Hines, you know, former Liverpool players. What did you make of the starting line-up? Yeah, I think that the one area of the pitch that piqued my interest, I think everything was very obvious in terms of the starting line-up, other than Taylor Hines starting for Katie McCabe. I think that's an interesting call. And I also think it's a good one because we've spoken a lot on this podcast and I know I've been quite vocal in my more negative moments about the fact that I think a lot of the senior players are a bit complacent in their spots.

13:55And I think Katie McCabe can sometimes be that player. However, I also do believe she's far too often uses a scapegoat as one of those senior players that's complacent. But recently, I don't think she's been in her best form. So I think it's good that we're seeing that happen to not just these kind of young, we've spoken about the midfield rotation, like Pilova comes in and doesn't do an immediate perfect job. She's out. Kyra Kunicross does, she's out. It's good that this is like a form kind of rotation is happening to those more senior players. In saying that as well, I think Taylor Hines is just the better option for this game against Liverpool because of the way that she attacks down the flank.

14:29I think that she's a lot more active than Katie McCabe is right now, just in the way that she plays. So I really thought this was a really clever switch, not just because, OK, I'm singling out Katie McCabe. Her form's not been that terrible, but also I think tactically it's a good move. And I'm glad that there are the fullback options to do that. So, yeah, I thought that was an interesting move. I thought the midfield was quite obvious. I expected Frida to start in the 10 next to Russo and Chloe Kelly's obviously not fit. So I did expect the wingers to be the same. Smith off the left, exciting as well.

14:57And that obviously transpired positively, but I will hold my attention on that. Yeah. And Renee said afterwards, she kind of did that because obviously Liverpool have lots of injuries in defence. Grace Fisk was out. He usually plays at right back, who actually is, I think is usually a centre back and has been filling in at right back because they're so depleted. only four subs for Liverpool yesterday, one of whom I believe was a 16-year-old, Maisie Truman. I know Rachel Corsi on Sky Sports in the UK was very scathing about that, that even with injuries, a club like Liverpool with their resources should not be.

15:34In that position, Gareth Taylor as well, he was asked, what do you have to do in January? And he said, lots. He said, even before the injury, we had to do lots now we have to do lots and lots more and he was you know uh he was kind of asked to compare what he had at Manchester City compared to what he has at Liverpool and he got a bit more diplomatic but I think the message was there but before we go into um you know the start from Arsenal um for that for those of you listening who are us blog patrons in our discord server we've now opened an Arsenal women match day chat uh we used to kind of have a match day chat channel for both teams but it's a bit confusing when the men's and women's teams cross over so we were talking in the arsenal women matchday chat discord server and i kind of put a question to people what do you think about borba do you think she should have been given a game somewhere something like leicester you know so that she's not coming in cold or for a goalkeeper do we not think that matters someone answered can i answer that after the game and then 11 minutes in the same person said yeah She should have been given a game somewhere because there's an early, probably her first involvement where she comes out.

16:47She doesn't get the angles right. What did you make of Borba's performance overall? And I mean, do you think she should have been given a game somewhere? Do you think it like maybe if she plays one game against Leicester, one game against Benfica, maybe it doesn't really matter anyway. But what did you make of like that situation, her performance, particularly as the game went on? Yeah, to be brutally honest, I don't think Arsenal have been in a position in the last two months to give the backup keeper, well, the backup backup keeper a game. It's been you have to win these games. You've dropped so many points now.

17:21So that's a sticky situation in itself when you're losing. And then this has to happen. A player has to be thrown in cold turkey because you've got an injury. So I think everything's great in fairy tales, but I don't think that there's a situation where she could have been played. And this is a good game to be kind of warmed into. I'm glad that this happened this block and not last block because there's a lot more softened teams to play in the next couple of weeks. So, yeah, my answer to that is no, I don't think it would have been a good idea because if we lost those games against Benfica and Leicester, that would have been curtains completely on a lot of other things.

17:54Her performance was interesting, Tim. I thought, look, in the preseason, I thought it was West Ham that she played against. Was it or was it? Yes. Yeah, West Ham. No, I know it was Spurs because West Ham didn't score, did they? Oh, yeah, that's the one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas Tottenham scored four and certainly one of them kind of chucked into the net. Yeah, there was just a couple moments and it wasn't even when Arsenal conceded in that pre-season game, but a lot of hesitancy to come out off her line and really claim the ball in the air. And I think that you kind of saw that. It's not that she can't read the ball, but it's almost as if she's unsure of herself.

18:30We saw that in that pre-season game against Spurs. and that's something that kind of raises a concern. And then coming into this game, we see it almost immediately. Honestly, I was ready to turn the TV off and go to bed when that kind of went through. And I think that, to be honest, she got very lucky because Olsen was very, very humble about it and gracious because if that was me with no VAR, I would absolutely throw myself on the ground with any contact. So I do think that was not great and I do think that's something in her game that needs to be highlighted. Just the way that she reads the ball is just not great.

19:00However, I think we've seen an injured Daphne van Domslaar do similar things recently where she doesn't come out when maybe she could. So maybe that's just a goalkeeper union thing that needs to be addressed. Her distribution was interesting. Tim, I know you want to speak about this. I think that when you've got a keeper like Daphne who can use her feet short passing and the centre backs certainly do rely on her for a lot, it did feel like, yes, we have a new goalkeeper in there because it felt like at times Catley and Wobbenmoy just weren't in the right places because they thought the goalkeeper would be there or they thought they'd be receiving the ball in different places.

19:30So I don't think that she's the greatest goalkeeper ever. I don't think she's awful, but I think that this is more than, okay, against Brighton last season when Manu Zinsberger was in net and it was like Daphna wasn't there anymore, so the centre-backs weren't playing well. And then it felt like it was more just, okay, they've adapted to Van Domsla. This situation was different in my opinion. It feels like, okay, maybe she's just not as good as Zinsberger. And there's a little bit of an area in her games. I know there's an age difference as well, but I'm not as confident as, yes, it's not just a no-de-van-dom-sla.

20:04It's a, okay, there's definitely areas in her game that she needs to improve. And it's that reading the game and it's just her distribution. Sometimes her decision-making is just a little bit irrational. So I just slandered her, but I didn't think it was a great performance. I'm not totally confident, but I'm glad that it's Everton and Twente coming up and not Chelsea and Bayern Munich. Yeah, I think that early mistake, that's just, I say totally, I don't know the goalkeeper well enough. Maybe she did it all the time at Wolfsburg. I don't know. That to me is just a symptom of not playing for this team before and probably not playing for four months.

20:37That kind of stuff, sweeping up, when do I come out? That stuff that you get by osmosis over time. You don't have it 11 minutes into your first game for the club. You just don't. All that stuff that you don't even calculate consciously, like what is the speed of my defenders running back? How likely are they to get that? Do I need to come out? when, you know, like all of that just comes with time and it's completely, it's almost like psychic kind of stuff. Arsenal had issues playing out from the back. We saw that with Liverpool's equaliser. And again, I think that's just a symptom of never playing with these players before.

21:14So, and she kind of grew into the game. She was staying on her line. I think that early mistake spooked her a little bit, but I understand that because the calculation is if I'm not sure I'm staying here because I don't get sent off if I stay here and I don't give anyone an open goal if I stay here so I think you know ideally you want your goalkeeper kind of charging off the line and clearing stuff up and all of that but I get it you know you're in a kind of I don't want to get make a mistake I definitely don't want a red card because we got a 17 year old on the bench and they'll have to go and go and then they'll be in goal for the next game so So, you know, I think she made the right calculation to kind of do that.

21:55So my kind of take at the moment is not great, but no judgment from me at this stage, because I think those are things that will come with time. I think, ask me again at Christmas, I'll have a firmer opinion. But anyway, Arsenal did win and they deserve to win. And it's all been a bit heavy going so far. So Arsenal, they do start the game, I think, pretty well. You know, Lota Wuppermoy hits the bar. We see that thing Arsenal did with set pieces. Whenever they play Liverpool, they change the trajectory of the cross. They don't go with a big loopy cross from the corner flag. They go for the short corner.

22:32Mariana clips one. Lota hits the bar. Mariana herself has a header, which Faye Kirby does really well to save when she's kind of wrong-footed. But then, and so it's a decent start. Liverpool playing quite a high line. Arsenal going over the top. But sometimes you just need a player to do something special and a player did something special to give us the lead. What did you make of that Olivia Smith goal? She's an absolute joke, Steve. She's a joke. This is exactly the kind of player, though, that we've been calling out for for seasons. And it was the player maybe we thought Rosa Caffadji was going to be.

23:10I think we sometimes forget that she can come back into the squad, hopefully, eventually. But she's the kind of player that we expected. We wanted this street baller. get the ball go do it yourself carry and she does this and I just think the biggest takeaway I took from Olivia Smith's game in general not just this goal was I really really like her playing off the left I really really think that it's exciting because the way that she can use her body to invert and then play the ball off her right she does it here she takes on three or four players and then hits it with her right foot I just think playing off the left it kind of just gives her a lot more room to be creative because there's a lot of chances she's had this season where she's playing off the right where she just runs it to the byline, runs it to the byline.

23:49And sometimes it works because she can take on her fullback and she can get it into the 18-yard box. But I really liked Olivia Smith off the left wing. And this goal is just incredible. It's a goal of a player that just knows she's good. Like players like this don't, you don't try stuff like this when you don't think that you can score goals like this. And I think it's not like she had anything to prove. It's not like Chloe Kelly playing against Manchester City where there's a little bit of bad blood. Like Olivia Smith has a lot of respect for Liverpool. But yeah, I just think this goal is absolutely phenomenal.

24:17And a lot of that came from, I just thought she was fantastic on the left wing. I really, really found it exciting and it's just a banger. It's an absolute banger. And it's such a good feeling to have a young player like that, that I look at and I'm like, build the team around this kid because what a goal, but what a performance. I thought she was incredible to be honest. Yeah. It's, it's very like your big players do that like Mariana at Leon, that will forever be my kind of my bar for, you know, playing really well and all of that. But like, In the big moments, sometimes you just need someone to beat three players and stick it top bins or bottom corner or whatever.

24:52And it's interesting with Olivia because she won't always get that decision right. Because very, very technically speaking, she shouldn't shoot there. She should probably pass it. And you have to accept some of the frustration when that doesn't go in. Like, for example, in the last minute of the Bayern game, I think she goes through and she's got like three players in the area. and she takes on the shot and that's not the right decision. But, you know, what's that old saying about like no rain, no flowers or something like that? And I think in a team like Arsenal as well, I'm prepared to accept some of that, you know, to kind of get goals and moments like that.

25:35And Renee talked a lot afterwards about, you know, she talked about Olivia Smith as showing leadership in those moments, saying like she's not an experienced player, So not a leader with her voice, but with her actions. And she talked as well about how, you know, they wanted to put her on the left for that reason. But then the last 25 minutes when Caitlin Ford comes on, they put her on the right. She goes outside. She puts a lot of good crosses in, which someone really ought to have been on the end of at least one of them. And she kind of, she was talking about how it's almost like having two players basically, because I can put her on the left.

26:09She can cut in and shoot. And then the last 25 minutes I put her on the right. she can have her full back on the outside and put crosses in. And I think that's very rare because, for example, I look at someone like Caitlin Ford, a player I love, but that's a one-on-one go on the outside player. Caitlin Ford is not cutting in from 25 yards and shooting. I think Beth Mead can do that, but I think Beth does her best work on the right anyway. Chloe Kelly could probably score that goal. You pointed to the Man City one there as well, But particularly if you haven't got like a Bunny Shore or someone like that or Sam Kerr who's going to get you like 25 goals a season, I think Arsenal have a lot of space for having a player like that who really kind of does things by herself.

26:57Now, and then Olivia Smith has another shot blocked. There's good work down the right. And Smith gets it on the back post. And Arsenal seem to be looking for that cutback quite a lot. I thought Arsenal were playing well until the Liverpool equaliser. Rene had a different view and said she felt we were playing well until Arsenal went 1-0 up. And that's where her problem came. She said, we got too safe, you know, too many backwards passes and all of that. I still feel like the Liverpool goal in terms of the pattern of the game came out of nowhere. However, the actual goal itself didn't come out of nowhere.

27:34It felt like there were a lot of authors of this particular tragedy. There were, I think, a few players at fault who weren't doing what they should have been doing. What did you make of Liverpool's equaliser? Yeah, it's something that we've seen happen and something that I think back in the last season And we were saying, no, it's not going to be a long-term problem. Not going to be a long-term problem. It has been. It continues to be. Same goal was scored for Leicester City, a similar thing where the midfield just gets overran, a shoulder gets turned of the CDM or the pivot, and then the centre-backs are out of tact.

28:07And that's exactly what happens here. I think Kyra just gets rolled. She's just not, her body positioning's wrong. She gets turned far too easily in this scenario. And then the ball goes forward. And I don't really know what Steph Catley's trying to do because she's almost like, are trying to like call her offside but you're keeping her five yards onside she was caught in no man's land I still think lots of wobbenmoy's positioning in this play was not good either so I think a lot of players were at fault for this goal um I still think that this is a goal that comes down to a bigger picture issue because I'm kind of I just think like when this happens to Kyra Cooney cross and maybe it's because I'm Australian it probably is but when this happens to Kyra Cooney cross it's the first thing people want to talk about is the fact that she's like undisciplined in the six.

28:49And we've seen this exact goal happen to Mariona and Victoria Plover against Leicester City. This is not a one player issue. This is a squad issue. And right now when you're best defensive midfielder, you're relying on Kim Little. The squad is absolutely relying on Kim Little to be fit and to be able to play 90 minutes and to be able to anchor down that double pivot. So right now I'm just, it irritates me a little bit because I do think players tend to get singled out and the blame gets like put. Okay, who is it? Is it Catley's fault? Is it Cooney Cross's fault? Is it Lota's fault. I think it's everyone's kind of cumulative fault in this goal.

29:20But I think it comes down to the fact that there's not a personnel for this kind of midfield pivot right now. Every midfielder that goes and fills Kim Liddell's role isn't fit to be a CDM or play in a deep eight. I don't think that Kyra Cooney Cross should be the deepest midfielder in any team. She doesn't play that role for the Matildas. That's why she's better for the Matildas. I think Victoria Pulova shouldn't be in that role either. So yeah, for me, this was a frustrating goal to concede because it felt like, okay, you lost Lievolti in the summer and I was here being like, it's not a big deal.

29:51It's all going to be okay. It doesn't matter. It was the end of an era. But now I just think, yeah, there's a lack of personnel in that midfield pivot. And if you're conceding against Liverpool and Leicester City, I really worry about who else is going to be able to exploit that. Happened with Alyssa Thompson as well, but obviously they're a bit further up the pecking order. So yeah, I think this is a bad Arsenal transition and it's something that we've seen happen a couple of times and it needs to be rectified in January because yeah I'm just kind of sick of the onus being put on one player when it's a team issue it's a squad issue yeah definitely I've said before Kyra is very good defensively like when it's in front of her going into a collision interception tackle not so much on her shoulder by no means only down to her I think it starts with again what we're talking about with Anna Kaborba you know the the automatums aren't there for playing out from the back so she kind of goes long Russo um you know usually so good in those situations at keeping the ball close to her body or or even better sometimes just turning in one touch but she kind of goes backwards I think Kyra is entitled to as much as she wasn't really aware of what was going on on her shoulder I think she's entitled to ask where Lotta was um because that's like that's gone right into Lota's position and Lota I think is ahead of Kyra Cooney Cross maybe or level with her Steph Catley's way back it's it's a very messy goal it's another one in transition and it goes into you know my my question of of Renee a lot this year over that position you know she she always talks about well you know when we're structured when we're organized and all of that but it's like but you're not structured and organized every minute of a game you can't be and when you're not you need someone who will just run back and get you out of trouble again a bit like Declan Rice for the men's team you know who sometimes Gabrielle and Saliba aren't there and he goes and sorts it out and I just think Arsenal need a player like that but that's what Renee said afterwards about it she said after our goal we lose a bit of intensity in everything we do we get comfortable we find more backwards passes instead of forwards passes and that's how you put yourself into a situation that gets hard.

32:03We play ourselves into our own half and that's where we make it hard for ourselves. And I think that's kind of her message, really, not to play so much in those areas, which I know is something Arsenal have been working on. But, you know, after that goal, the rest of the half is a total write-off. the atmosphere dies, Arsenal kind of die. And, you know, I asked René about the response to the goal. And she said, you know, look, you can't have momentum all the time. But she said the reaction to the goal was not good enough. And I think that kind of 20 minutes, that last 15, 20 minutes of the first half, I really got that feeling in my stomach of, oh, this feels like end of days for a manager type thing.

32:54You know, I felt like this looks bad. Completely agree. I was sour at halftime about just the last third of this opening half. I think that this is just such, it's frustrating, Tim, because it's like you can ask yourself, why is it happening? But it's happened against Aston Villa, happened against Brighton, both at the Emirates, against these teams last season, especially Aston Villa and Brighton, 4-0, 5-0, absolutely blew Liverpool out of the park as well. These are teams that last season under Rene Slagers at Emirates Stadium, it was just absolutely emphatic. It was, the performances were insane.

33:27The goal creation was insane and they were putting away chances left, right and centre and it felt like the confidence was so high. These teams, in my opinion, Liverpool have gotten worse. I think Villa have made, I think Villa have improved in places but really, really fallen off in terms of a forward threat so it doesn't really make sense why they're looking a bit more forward threatening. and Brighton I don't think are as good as they were last season. I think that they've improved in the fact that Dario is less like Ange Postacoglu and is deciding to maybe actually play against his opposition and not just for himself now.

33:56But these are three teams I don't think that have dramatically improved. So why have Arsenal regressed? And it's just, it's happened. This is every time we play at the Emirates now, it feels like this exact same script. Opening goal, great. Hand break on. What's going on for the rest of the first half? Why have the team decided to sit down and kind of just, I don't even know, play noughts and crosses? So I can't even diagnose this, but it's a really, really recurring theme right now where the team kind of sit back after an opening goal and rather than go, okay, our goal, like our XG in this game is insane.

34:24Why are we not putting away our chances? In the second half that comes, in the first half, it's kind of like, we'll just bide our time till halftime and then maybe see if we can make some tactical implications. So I think that comes from the players. And I think it's hard as people that aren't in the dressing room to know why that's happening. I don't think this comes from the manager because this is a player shift as soon as that goals goes on. The players are no longer playing for each other. So the momentum's died and that's something like we talk about the transition, but that's something that's happened recurringly over this season.

34:52Why is this team putting the handbrake on in the first half? And yeah, they got lucky. They deserve to win, but I do think that they got lucky because it felt like one of those games where Liverpool were just pulling every little like last deflection and dying tackle. Haven't seen Gemma Evans play that good football in her entire career. like so yeah it's a recurring theme and it is I think in my opinion concerning especially for a team that used to dominate at home yeah definitely and and that's why I kind of teed Renee up on that question I was just like I want to hear that harsh words were said at half time and she kind of said that they were and I was like okay good um because yeah there is yeah she said to me afterwards she said like you can't have momentum for a whole 90 minutes and it's it's a tricky thing to control what you can control is your response when momentum swings.

35:39And it felt like we wasted the rest of that half. But second half got better. You know, Russo has a couple of shots. But one of the things I really looked at on the team sheet, just because it really sticks out when one team's got nine subs and the other's got four. And one of those four, I think, was wearing the number 87 shirt or something. And one of them's a goalkeeper. So it's a bit like, right, Liverpool can only bring on two players here. And then I look at Arsenal's bench and obviously with Lear and Kim back, it looks a lot more imposing as well. Like Lear and Victoria Pilova and Jenna Naiswong are unused subs in this game.

36:17It's got like Caitlin Ford on there and it's got, yeah, Kim Little and yeah, and like some really good players and Steiner Blackstenius who really makes the difference in the end. And, you know, I didn't, it's weird. I think I experienced this game. Usually I feel like I experienced this game the same as everyone and the same as the manager. I didn't feel like that this time because I felt like it was the Liverpool equaliser that killed Arsenal a bit. Rene felt it was Arsenal's goal. And I didn't know really what to make of the first, let's say first half of the second half. Because on one hand, we had quite a few shots.

36:58but at the same time i don't know if this was just my emotional feeling the fact that i was listening to the commentary of the men's game and my ears at the same time and maybe that muddied my emotions a bit but it also didn't feel like you know the alamo it didn't feel like right we've got them right under pressure but actually statistically we kind of did and we created chances like what did you make that kind of let's say up to like the the substitutions like how did you feel about that second half? Yeah, I think the start of the second half is interesting because on paper, like you said, Tim, the stats are there.

37:32I think the issue is it felt like from the back forward to the midfield, I do think that Arsenal really, really woke up in the second half. And I do think the defenders in particular were just holding their positions better and they were distributing better and they were just playing amongst each other a lot better. And the midfielders were then able to, that was a knock-on effect. They were then able to know what their role was. And it just felt like every single time they got to the box and there was a good chance, like the forwards, the strikers, maybe more so Alessia Russo and Frida Mornham especially, just didn't really want to be ruthless with it.

38:02And it felt like that was where it really fell apart. And I think often we see, like, I think Frida, this is one of her worst games this season. I don't even know if it's her fault. like naturally I just think Liverpool actually set up really well to just not allow a high 10 like because they sat so high so it kind of made Frida redundant however I just think Frida and Russo almost just that the energy wasn't there Russo was having to work harder than she usually does to actually get on the ball so I think it felt like Arsenal were knocking on the door knocking on the door but then when it got to the final stage it didn't feel like there were any real chances so it left you in like a weird limbo where it was like okay maybe they're actually dominating, but then no, it doesn't actually seem like they're going to score.

38:41I also think like Liverpool, it's interesting because in the first half an hour of this game, basically up until the Arsenal goal, I thought Liverpool have no system, like this team are not going anywhere. And then as the game progressed, I thought, no, they're showing a lot more positive signs than they are now, than they are now, than they were at the start of the season. So I think maybe you have to clap a team like Liverpool on the back right now because they've got a lot of injuries and they set up really well defensively and they honoured themselves defensively as well. So good on them however no excuses because of the personnel difference there should still be like Arsenal domination in the final third so I think it was interesting to him because it felt like everyone kind of woke up but the final piece of the like puzzle was really really missing and it's just that ruthlessness it's the cutting edge I don't think Alessio Russo and Friedem Warnem were on it so yeah it was a bit of a mixed bag of are they dominating but it doesn't actually look like they're going to score yeah definitely I mean I should say like Liverpool I watched their highlights with the Chelsea game, their last WSL game where they held Chelsea.

39:38Chelsea's last shot in that game was in the 65th minute and they needed a goal. And that tells you that Liverpool defended it well and they defended high in that game as well. Gareth Taylor made some allusion to the fact he slightly changed their pressing. I haven't watched the full game back yet and actually I didn't see the Chelsea game in full anyway, so I'm unlikely to see what the detail was there. But they stayed quite high as well and you could see in the first half Arsenal were aiming for that they were going over the top quite a lot um but with liverpool you know they're fourth for xg against in the wsl this season so only arsenal chelsea and man city concede fewer chances basically where liverpool's problem is they don't score very much they don't have much threat going the other way um so you know i i think a lot of those caveats exist but the bench did make a difference I think Caitlin Ford if if things feel a bit sluggish like Caitlin Ford is a bit of a double espresso you know in a performance and I think she certainly gave that even if her end product is is not where it really should be Katie McCabe for Taylor Hines that I think that was a pre-programmed substitution for sure we're seeing that a lot between the two left backs now it's 60-30 between them which and I think we'll see that right back once Holmberg comes in as well but but really it's Steiner that makes the difference I think if you're playing against a higher line it does just give me that pause for thought should Steiner have started given that Arsenal were trying to play in behind Liverpool but you know you get Katie McCabe has a volley which nearly goes in and then Steena has a one-on-one um in the 83rd minute and what did you make of this chance I saw it described as a as a miss or a bad miss I have a different view on it what did you make a bit and I guess did you did you think like this isn't going to be our day yeah I did think that to be honest I was kind of head in hands I feel like we've switched personalities recently Tim I really do think I'm bringing the negative energy to this I apologize.

41:48I just think like when you're playing a high line and just going back to what Steena brought to this game, when you're playing a high line, I think that she is the answer. It's difficult because it feels like Rene has judged that wrong so many times this season against Man United. She kind of didn't do her homework and United maybe sat a little bit deeper, so that didn't work. And then against Spurs, she maybe expected them to press a bit higher and then Steena wasn't being able to run in behind because they sat back. It feels like in this game as well. Liverpool have been playing a high line for a very, very few number of games right now.

42:18So it does feel like, okay, we need to start watching what the defence of the opposition are actually doing, what shape they take, and then what striker do you play? Because it doesn't feel like that homework's being done. Because I think that there's an option in this game to maybe go 3-4-0 ahead, because Steena has, she should have had a hat-trick, to be honest. And I think that in the first half, there's a lot less pressure on a striker to put those chances away. However, Steena Black-Sinnius is an anomaly anyway. So who knows if she would have scored them, if it's not, you know, the 85th minute.

42:44So, yeah, I do think on that, there's maybe a little bit of an area of not concern, just something to maybe look at because, okay, what's the homework going into the starting 11 with the strikers? Just judge the opposition. How do they shape up? In terms of this game, I just thought nothing is going right. This is like, I think Caitlin Ford had a couple of times where she steamed down the left and then it went into the side netting and it just felt like nothing was going right. She slipped a couple of times as well. Yeah, exactly. It's just probably one of those games where I was back in the away end at Chigwell Construction Stadium two seasons ago nothing was going right so yeah I um maybe on an opposite view to you Tim I thought yeah that's got to go away earlier chance from Alessia Russo as well she misses from almost directly in front I just thought yeah this is not our day yeah with the one-on-one let me break this down a bit because I I think um we fans journalists whoever really misunderstand some misses sometimes like she goes through and if you watch the angle from behind faye kirby goes to her left right so that takes away the opportunity for steena to go around the goalkeeper on her strong side so she has to go around on her weak side and when you go around on your weak side the touch has to be bigger because you're not on your standing foot you're unbalanced you need to take another stride whereas if you go on your your strong side you're on your standing foot you can take a nice tight touch and just and put it in but because she has to go on her left has to be a bigger touch and that gives Gemma Evans the time to come back with what is a brilliant block by the way and and it could easily have gone in as well it still could easily have gone in off Gemma Evans so I'm okay with that the question I put to Renee after about Steena I describe Steena as a volume player right I think there are attackers who are like this and she really reminds me of Theo Walcott in in a lot of ways in that a lot of what Theo Walcott used to do would frustrate the hell out of me he'd hit crosses that would end up out of the stadium he'd go one-on-one and put it wide and you'd want to throttle him but his big strength was it didn't bother him and he went and made the run and made the cross and made the next finish and I said to Renee like I put the question to her and I was like the thing about Steena is sometimes she's not as clean as she should be in the final third and sometimes she's offside too often but i asked her what is it about her mentality that means she forgets that and she goes and makes the next run takes the next shot because what she does she takes a hell of a lot of shots right and she's not massively clinical she's kind of on her xg this season she usually finishes below her xg she gets loads of chances basically and almost i guess almost a bit like a bamiyang as well another sorry another men's team comparison like he wasn't a lethal finisher but he'd get like four chances a game and so my question to Rene about Steiner was like what is it about have you noticed something in her mentality obviously Rene used to play with Steiner a little while ago so knew her when she was younger and she says I've known Steiner so long and I knew that that was hard for her earlier in her career and when she was younger to come back from those moments and just go to the next action with as much belief and conviction that's what she did today she's such a mature person now and football player but if you don't if you look at everything she creates we don't reward ourselves with the chances she creates or the space she creates in the end we do it on 87 minutes but the disruption she creates in a back line is not only for herself to create things but also for the team and that that is the magic and the beauty of of Steena Blackstenius she keeps excuse my language she keeps fucking going right and in the 87th minute we probably get one day when she leaves this club jamie there's going to be like a flip book or a great montage of like the steniest goals the steniest goals that ever happened you know the goal at brighton where she misses it just spins and puts it in the top corner the one at villa where she falls over everyone stops and she sticks it in and this one it's a great ball from emily fox by the way and again testing that high line and she artfully controls it on her face um at first and then i think it hits her thigh after that thankfully not the same referee as the as the chelsea game otherwise that would have been given as handball and then she just smacks it in the top corner on her left foot and to me jamie if I was explaining to someone who'd never watched Steena Blackstenius before I'd show them this this kind of 30 minute cameo yeah it's exactly that I was actually speaking to my dad funnily enough on the on the phone after this game because he was at the game in England right now and he was saying like I know he's look he likes Steena Blackstenius but he very easily gets frustrated by Steena Blackstenius and he's saying that's how we all feel about And he said, look, I know I give her a hard time, but there is no player sometimes on that pitch that gives more than she does.

47:49Like she just runs and she goes again. She goes again. She goes again. And that's exactly what this game needed. It was just an injection of energy where things aren't going right. OK, goldfish, don't care, messed up. And now let me go again. And she was a goldfish in the game because there were so many moments where I actually nearly lost my mind every time that like offside flag went up. So I think that's exactly right. Like she comes into this game and she has done this. And I think this has actually improved in her game over the last maybe 18 months. She just like knows that she needs to keep going.

48:18And if she's not going to score a goal, she's at least going to open up the space for someone else to be in there. And she's so valuable to this team. And obviously, I know she scores the winner in the Champions League final, but she's gotten Arsenal out of so many hard positions in other games, not just the finals. And this is one of those games. That goal doesn't go in. This is a very, very sticky situation where if Man City beat Leicester later today, then it's really, really bad. in terms I think it would be something like 10 points clear. And it's just, it's not good in terms of the Champions League race.

48:47Obviously, United playing West Ham, if you're listening and they're both lost, that's hilarious, but I don't expect them to. So yeah, it's just like a player that gets Arsenal out of so many sticky situations because she does not put her head down. And that goal is hilarious, but it's also, it's just hilarious because it's a great finish, but it's also a funny finish. Like, what is that? How does that even hit the back of the net? So yeah, Stina Black, Sinius and Olivia Smith, two moments of absolute brilliance in this game, which was so necessary because it didn't look like Arsenal were going to be able to tick attack the ball into the back of the net against this Liverpool team on this occasion.

49:18So two moments of individual brilliance needed to happen and it's just there's no more frustrating player than Stina Baxin is. It was also hilarious that she scored and Trossard had scored like two minutes earlier. It just felt like two of the exact same players that just do stupid crap and get Arsenal out of sticky situations all the time. So yes, thank you Stina once again. yeah adrian like i was listening to the commentary and i think it was trossard's third shot and it'd only been on like five minutes and i was like yeah this is that's very steiner coded but what i'd say about steiner like always cult hero i think and and but i i almost think that does her down a little bit something she did in lisbon in may kind of makes her a club legend automatically but I think even separately to that, like she's not the striker you'd want playing 90 minutes every week if you want to win the league, but there can't be a player in Europe or the world who's a better plan B, a more effective plan B.

50:20And I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to do it for the newsletter this week. I'm going to go back and look at her goals and just look how many have come off the bench, how many have changed a game in terms of getting us a point or an extra two points because i think it's going to be really really high um and i think she is going i mean fortunately you've kind of got michelle ajumain coming through and that that's incredibly luxurious like to have like because plan b strikers they're very difficult to come by we saw it in the era there was nobody behind fifth we were we were very lucky that before her acl unfortunately she got very few injuries because there was nothing behind her whereas you know Arsenal have probably got a situation where they don't have like a Bunny Shaw or a Sam Kerr but they have two really good strikers and one really good plan B striker it's very weird but you know just to sum up I think it's the longest first half we've ever done but um you know Arsenal is 19 shots to three people at the game who were at the south end of the stadium will know this some pigeons came down to roost this is true in the arsenal half at the beginning of the second half and it was the 75th minute before they left because the ball did not come in so it was down in our left back position you know where the press box is there were some pigeons roosting there and they stayed there for half an hour because the ball just never came down the end so it's 19 shots to three it's eight to one on target xg is 2.1 to 0.2 that's kind of a two nil game really renee said at the final whistle She felt relief because she didn't feel Arsenal played well.

52:02What on earth do you make of this game overall? I felt the same as Renee, to be honest. I kind of like turned it off as soon as the final whistle went and just switched over to the men's game because it felt to me like without disregarding the stats completely, it felt to me like this was a bit of a lacklustre, tired, sluggish performance, a real coming back from the international break performance where you just all need to reconvene and get the three points. and thank God they did because if they hadn't gotten the three points against this team considering how many shots they had, that would have been a real, real, real, real issue, especially heading into the top three race that we now find ourselves in.

52:36I think that there is positives in this performance in the fact that there is still a lot of injuries in this team and it's almost like, okay, when do you get through this block and just say just get the points and make it to January, hope that we can make some squad fixes and just get some of our injured players back on the park. So I'm not taking a lot away from this game. It's kind of like, it always feels this way when we play Liverpool and get a really close result. Like, I felt this way when we played them away. Like, I don't have a lot of, away last season, sorry. I don't have a lot of takeaways from that game, but the three points needed to be gathered and they were.

53:07So, yeah, I thought, I thought the same as Rene. I thought three points and run, that was not pretty. And thank God they put away the chances that they eventually got. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I definitely felt relieved. I do think we deserved it. And I think Steiner was the sledgehammer in the end that we really needed to be like, okay, we're dominating, but we need to dominate the penalty area and not just the area up until the penalty area. Anyway, like I said, that is the longest first half we've ever done by some distance. This will be slightly lopsided podcast, not least because I think we covered so much that we've covered a lot of what were in the questions.

53:47Nevertheless, we will take a well-earned break here and we will return in part two with some of your questions submitted on Blue Sky right after this.

54:00Okay, welcome back to the Arsenal Women Arsecast on arseblog.com. Looking back on Saturday's 2-1 win over Liverpool. Like I meant to say at the top, actually, first of all, thanks so much to everyone that voted for us in the FSA Awards. for best fan media, AskBlog bought that trophy home. I actually have it here. It's here on my table. I need to give it to Andrew because he couldn't fly over for the ceremony. But thanks so much to everyone that voted. I think that's the seventh time we've won an award in the 12 years the FSAs have been going. So really, really grateful for everyone's support on that.

54:38And also, like I said, for those of you that are patrons or interested in becoming patrons, we've opened a match day chat channel for the women's games on our discord server which you get access to if you are a patron and uh to be a patron it's about five or a month um i think so all of the links for our patreon membership always show up on pretty much everything we do and they will on this podcast as well if that interests you and you want to get away from some of the toxicity of wider social media and talk to like-minded arsenal fans without other people butting in then that's a good place for you to go anyway um let's start i'll put this question to you jamie from our mutual friend adam salter at adam-salter4 in all three wsl home games where we've scored first this season villa brighton liverpool we became far too casual after scoring and lost all our momentum agreed cost us against villa it nearly did here why do you think we now keep putting the handbrake on instead of powering forward like last season so we talked about the fact that this has happened but why do you think it is I think again and this is something that I think I've really really harped on about all season people probably sick of of hearing it but at the end of last season like my biggest question to Renee and this squad was how do they survive this the turmoil of the five or five competition campaign without the narrative of this like okay We have a new interim coach and look at us.

56:06We're doing all these amazing things. We've gone all the way to Lisbon. And how do we kind of sustain that without the narrative? And that just comes back to this wider conversation of Arsenal don't have a good average performance. They have a below average performance. And it was a pod we did a couple of weeks ago. And I listened to something you said a couple of times, Tim, like literally over, like rewinded a couple of times. And it's so exactly true in the fact that Arsenal's below average, sorry, Arsenal's OK performance is just below average, to where Chelsea can like get results out of their bad performances.

56:35Arsenal's best performance is world class, but that doesn't happen all the time. And I think that's something that we just still don't know how to organise. Like this squad don't know how to find out, okay, we've scored now against a bottom of the table team. How do we just play enough good football to get this result and sustain the momentum? And it just feels like something in this squad is missing, whether that is leadership, right? Like you've got a situation here where Lee Williamson and Kim Little aren't on the pitch. Sometimes a lack of leader and a vocal leader on the pitch. Katie McCabe's also not on the pitch.

57:02That really makes – that slows the momentum down in instances like this because you've got a load of players that maybe they're not vocal leaders. Maybe they just lead by the way they play. And I do truly believe that has an effect on a football team, especially a team that are in turmoil the way that Arsenal women are right now. They're not doing the best that they can. So that lack of kind of rallying cry I do think is something that this team needs right now, and they're not going to get that from their manager because of just her general demeanour and the way that she is as a manager. I just think there's something with this squad right now.

57:31And Tim, like if I had the exact answer, like I said earlier, I would completely give it to you. But right now it feels like Arsenal don't know how to get through the tight, tight gaps and just do enough to kind of survive and sustain the momentum. Instead, they're kind of like, okay, panic. We've done all the job we need to get there. Now let's just kind of like panic and all our head is gone. And I think that just comes from mentality. And that's why it's frustrating. I think this squad have the players, they have the talent, they have the depth. I really do think to go and score that Olivia Smith goal and then go put three more past Liverpool before halftime.

58:03And I just think it comes down to mentality and whether that's the way the manager's coaching, whether that's the way the players are kind of responding to the dynamics in the team. We don't know that because we're not there. I just think it comes down to mentality. But that's not just a Rene Slaggers thing. That is something that has been happening for seasons and seasons. How does this team motivate themselves without a downside? How does this team get out of a sticky situation unless something bad has happened? So Adam, buddy, we message about this all the time, mate. I don't have an answer, but I do think it's a fundamental issue and it's a mentality thing and we're really struggling to shock that into our systems right now.

58:36Yeah, I suspect this is one of the many reasons we miss Leah Williamson as well and actually ran a reference that she never planned to bring Leah on. It was about getting her back into match day routine and all of that, but she also said her leadership around the squad and she referenced, you know, Leah does little team talks and stuff like that. So as much as Renee might have raised her voice at halftime, I wouldn't be surprised if Leah Williamson did as well, which she can do. Well, don't get me wrong. You can still do that when you're injured, but I think it's easier when you're in the matchday squad.

59:07Do you have a question for me? I do on Leah Williamson. This one is from at Borrodale. It says, when Williamson is fit to start and with Reid tragically out for the season, would you pick Lotto Obanmoy or Steph Catley as the other starting centre-back? and does your answer change depending on your level of confidence in the goalkeeper? Yeah, I'd probably still go. So the first thing to say is I don't think Leah's going to start a game for a while. And this is always harder for a centre-back as well. This was the same when she came back from her ACL because you don't tend to change your centre-backs unless you're 4-0 up.

59:43And unfortunately, that's not happening to us very often at the moment. So it might be a slow burn bringing her back because if we're 3-0 up against Everton after an hour, she's coming on. But if we're not, she's not. It's kind of that simple. However, when this actually happens, I'd be inclined to stick with Leah and Steph. I think Lotta is a good analogue for Leah in terms of the way she plays and the way she passes the ball and her assertiveness and all of that. I generally think as much as she did not cover herself in glory for the Liverpool goal, I still think Steph Catley's been playing really well there.

1:00:23I don't think Arsenal really have much of a defensive issue. Maybe they don't have enough pace in the spine of the team. Maybe Steph's part of that. I still think people just struggle to accept her as a centre-back because they're used to her being a left-back. I think if we'd bought her last summer as a centre-back and we got these performances, I think people would have less to say. I think it's because she's been a left back for so long is part of the reason people really struggle with it. I think she's played really well there, to be honest, despite not being great on the Liverpool goal. I think the Williams and Catley partnership looks like the best we've got.

1:00:58And I don't really have that many problems with it, maybe aerially, but that hasn't been a huge issue in how Arsenal can seed goals. I think when Leah comes back, you've got a lot more recovery pace there and you can get that defensive line higher. I think Leah is a player that can dig you out of trouble, perhaps when you're a little bit out of position. So I'd be inclined, I think, to stick with Leah and Steph, not least because the way Steph plays in possession as well. She really goes over to that left hand side, almost popping up as a left back so that the left back can push on or invert. and I think that's difficult to replicate if you're not left-footed.

1:01:39So yeah, listen, long-term, summer, summer, I want the world-class left centre-back, no question about it. But for the moment, Leah and Steph for me. How about this one then from at Lucy566? I mean, I know my answer to this question. Is it fair to say that getting a six has to be a non-negotiable for the winter window? So again, we're in that situation where right-back's coming in, Rene says they're going to get a goalkeeper, and if it's not a loan, well, actually, even if it's a loan recall, I still think that counts. In Champions League, squad registering, that leaves one more position that Arsenal can fix.

1:02:19There's a gaping hole in our midfield every game, and our creativity up top is suffering because Mariana is having to drop so deep. She takes the ball from the centre-back for Steiner's goal today. So number six in January, non-negotiable for you? Yes, more than anything I could ever want on my Christmas list. Please. Honestly, no, definitely. To be serious, I feel like I'm being unserious a lot on this episode. Please sign in number six. I think that that is just exact. The point that Lucy's made is exactly the point. Yes, we can talk about transition, but it's also the fact that, like, I think that people get caught up in this fact, oh, do Arsenal have a 10 that Rene Slagas prefers?

1:02:59Because Mariona is one of the best attacking players in the entire globe of world football. And she's being wasted, I think, in the double pivot, especially against teams like this, where she can bring a lot in that spot when someone like Frieda's kind of made redundant because of the way that Liverpool are playing a high line. Maybe Victoria Plova is too similar to Kyra Cunicross in some ways. You're wasting a player like Mariona Caldente because she's having to do the defensive work in the pivot. That is such a reason. However, you need a natural six in this team. Arsenal need a natural six more than anything.

1:03:28But the last thing I want is them to go buy a player whose FIFA card says CDM and the manager doesn't actually want her. And I'm stuck watching Kim Little and Mariona in the double pivot and then they have to deal with more contracts, more extensions. Okay, why do we have another player that doesn't work? So it's almost like would I rather be six-less and not have a player that's kind of not even just a ball emergency? That felt like what Jenna Neiswonger was. We need full back depth by Jen and Icewonger. I don't want that situation. However, I think the six is on the market and just go buy one.

1:04:03Just pretend that you remember that you're at least the champions of Europe because honestly, it's more in need than ever, Tim. I'd be very surprised and not pleasantly surprised if they didn't. Like I say, sometimes you're just out of position, you're unstructured. It happens and you need players to dig you out when it does. and also like just for the future anyway like Kim's 35 Mariana's 30 I think um I Victoria Pilova's contract is up at the end of the season I'd be very surprised if she extends at this stage to be honest so there's going to be a lot of natural upheaval there anyway so even just from a basic squad building perspective but it's something we missed in the summer definitely definitely a mistake um from the summer we lost Leah Valti and didn't replace her like we've got numbers in midfield.

1:04:52Like Victoria Pilova is consistently an unused sub. Kyra Kuni Cross has consistently been an unused sub. It's not like we're playing players there, like we're having to find players to play there. But we don't have that profile and we need it. It's that simple. Yeah, have you got a question? Let's do like one more each, I think. Brilliant. I've got a question. This is interesting. It's from at C Tindall. It says, there are certain patterns of play. i.e. McCabe crosses towards the far post, frequent cutbacks such as from Russo that feel repeated enough to be instructed, but often don't have anyone on the end of them.

1:05:29Do you have any sense of why they're not joining up? Yeah, I mean, I think that basically most attacks don't work is the easiest answer to that. The vast majority of attacks don't end in a shot or a goal. um what i'd say is like on the cutback thing like arsenal score a lot from low crosses in the area i think arsenal recognize they're not scary aerially they sit about mid table in the wsl for aerial duels one they often play against back fives they often play against bigger teams so like like bigger as in literal height so you know like i see like a lot of criticism of emily fox for not crossing and it drives me mad because it's like who do you think she's crossing to why do you want to send the ball up in the air to like three centre-backs who are all bigger than all of our players like you know with the exception of Real Madrid who are really weak defending aerially as we've seen to our to our benefit but you know the cutback thing I think it's Liverpool playing five defenders it is difficult to find players in there the kind of the crosses to the back post from Katie I did wonder because Taylor Hines wasn't really doing that and actually taylor hines i don't know if this is still the same after yesterday when i did the newsletter last week about the fullbacks taylor hines hasn't played across all season into the penalty area right because she's a combined player she likes to pass combine one two's cutbacks that kind of thing and so it did make me wonder whether they'd spotted something in liverpool maybe on the back post maybe they thought because liverpool weren't playing with with their usual full backs maybe they thought we get a knockdown we can like we probably can't beat their center backs in the air but maybe they identified something in the right back on the day who i think was lucy parry um maybe it was just like get her on the back post and we can get a knockdown back into the area and and look it's just you put the ball into the penalty area a lot against the five strong defense it's it's hard uh i i kind of think it's it's that simple um to be honest I look at the goal Olivia Smith scores that's not a pattern play goal that's you know that's that's a solo attempt the goal Steiner scores that's obviously instructed the playing high line we've got her in over the top quite a lot it's a great ball by Emily Fox so it's not something I'm massively concerned about and like I think Arsenal do well actually at creating from wide areas to be honest in general it's where it's where most of our goals come from so I'm not hugely concerned about it, especially against a team like Liverpool who are good defensively, even if they're not that great up front.

1:08:09Although they have a very good striker, it must be said. Obviously, this isn't a Liverpool podcast, but if Olsen is still at Liverpool next season, I'd be very, very surprised. And I think their points total would look a lot, even scarier without her, put it that way. Why don't I ask you this one then? And yeah, let's end on this one because it's kind of where we started and it's from Ms. Robin Hosking on Blue Sky. Why has it taken Renee so long to be firm in the halftime break? Will she command the same respect to someone like Emma Hayes, who was blunt to the point of calling her players shit on occasions?

1:08:51And should the club be micromanaging her professional development as a coach with her people skills? So, yeah, Renee said this was her firmest ever halftime team talk. I've suggested maybe that represents some kind of sea change or response. It's far too early to know that. But what did you make of that? And yeah, like Robin is right. Emma Hayes did used to do that a lot. Emma Hayes had won a lot of league titles, which kind of gives you the gravity. But Renee's won the Champions League. So what do you make of Rene being firm and, you know, would you like to see it more often? Yeah, I think this is an interesting one.

1:09:30I think that there is a like a big opinion in sport that a manager needs to be kind of like explosive and aggressive or a little bit like over the top on the on the touchline in order to be like respected and heard by their players. And I think that different playing groups just respond to different things. So I don't think it's a matter of, oh, Renee is not a player that likes to, you know, raise her voice halftime or show a lot of emotion. Sometimes that's not necessarily a bad thing. Like if we're just, if we're looking at the game in general, I don't think a manager needs to be a massive character like Emma Hayes in order to be successful.

1:10:04And I think that that is maybe a little bit of a, not a naive opinion, but maybe you're kind of, it's, it's a bit microscopic of being like, okay, that's worked a couple of times. It should work all the time. I think that's just people, like people respond to different things. So I'm not of the opinion that Rene needs to be this big, loud character that goes off on the touchline and has a word at halftime. And I don't think that that is the recipe for success. It's just about responding to what your players need. In saying that, it feels like these players do need that. And that has been something that has really lacked this team.

1:10:34I think, obviously, she learned from someone like Joe Montemuro as well, who was a mentor for her, who is the exact same in the way that maybe he just wants to be friends with absolutely everyone in his life. And the players can respond positively to that. But then when does it get to a point where it's like, okay, I really need to kind of lay down my hand here and tell you guys that I'm upset. And then I hope that there's a reaction. Because I think from someone like Jonas, like we obviously aren't in the dressing room, but he's always going off. So I don't ever see him on the touchline when he's like getting angry at a fourth official.

1:11:04No one bats an eyelid because that's always how it works. So maybe it does carry a little bit more weight. And I think it's interesting as well because like Renee was her job before being head coach of Arsenal was to work with these players. So she's clearly got that in her skill set to be a really good one-on-one people manager. And she knows how to work on the development of these players. And I think that is a massive strength of hers. And it still is. And that's being undermined because of the recent results. And I think maybe her, I believe that that's not her weakness at all. I think her weakness is the fact that she doesn't want to have anything to do with the squad build.

1:11:35And you need to in order to build a successful dynasty team. So I think that she has got that. And that's just her managerial style. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I think there's a few managers like Seb Hines or Lando Pride. He's very blasé, very quiet. He's not a very overtly aggressive person. Emma Hayes is just a manager that we've seen dominate the WSL. So that's just what we expect to be the best way forward. So in short, I think Rene has a lot of strengths in her managerial style in the fact that she is a good people manager. That's why she won the Champions League and that's why she took Arsenal out of a very, very bad place last season.

1:12:10But then at the same time, I completely agree. I think the players, maybe this set of players, need a little bit more of rough and tough in order to respond because it doesn't feel like they are. And clearly that worked against Liverpool. So congratulations, Rene. So, yeah, a bit of a mixed bag opinion from me, Tim. Yeah, I think, you know, Rene should be Rene. And she's logical and rational after the best win and the worst defeat. She's pretty much the same. And I do think that that's a strength. And we talked about it as a strength last season. the team staying calm in nervous moments and how Rene transmitted that and you've got to be who you are definitely and like you say it's different strokes for different folks but and Emma Hayes was hugely complimentary of her players very defensive of her players a lot but yeah every now and then she'd say that's rubbish they were rubbish I kind of think when you're a long-term manager with loads of trophies behind you you can do that what I would say is like I said at the beginning it's a bit like parenting i'm not a ranter and a raver as a parent i'm not a ranter and a raver as a person but i like to think when my daughter does step over the line and i do i do hit that dial that it means something because it's like oh okay right i really understand that and you've got to pitch it right i remember arson wenger saying something about like you can only do the teacups thing once a season otherwise it has no impact anymore um and and so yeah i but it but it's i think the question has been would she even do it once a season you know and um and and yeah like i said i i hope i'm beginning to detect where where where i'd certainly like her to see her be more um forgive the slightly gendered language but alpha it is like you say jamie in like recruitment and stuff like that it's like look something's got to give here because if you don't want to be involved you cannot then like side totally sidelined a player like jen and i swung you can't have it both ways you can't say i don't want having to have much to do with recruitment and then just like cast players aside like if you're getting players you don't like you have to get more involved and just by age alone age age age and age like you You don't have to put anything else into it.

1:14:32This squad needs turning over soon. The substitutes yesterday, 29, 30, 31, 35, right? That has to change soon. And that job is either the job of this to turn this squad over is a job of like now. For this recruitment team, this manager, you know, for Claire, like it's now. That time is now. Arguably it's before now, but it's now. And that means decisions have to be taken. And that also means some really good, really big players aren't going to be here much longer and they have to be replaced correctly. And that means that recruitment has to be spot on and they have to be players for next season's manager, whoever that is.

1:15:20And if it's not Rene, it's not Rene. But if it is Rene, they have to be her players and she has to get more involved in that. Like this is not the job now of someone who just wants to coach 15 players. This is the job of someone who wants their squad playing their style with their players. So that's where I want to see Renee become more, should we say, assertive. And if once or twice a season she has to throw some teacups around, fine. But I'm less invested in that, I have to say. Does that make sense? I 100 % agree on you, Paige. Okay. I've done a couple of monologues in this podcast. And so I think we're going to leave it there.

1:15:59Jamie, thanks as ever. Thank you, Tim. Thank you, Tim. Very excited for the next couple of weeks. Let's bring some points home and hopefully have more podcasts where we're rambling on about less negative things. Yeah, absolutely. And obviously we'll be at the Twente game on Tuesday night and at Goodison Park next Saturday. And we'll come back for you with another podcast after the Everton game. Don't know whether that'll be a Sunday or a Monday record, but um yeah we'll come back with you then thanks for sticking with us through this one particularly because it ran slightly longer than usual but it just felt like a lot a lot a lot of feelings came out in this one i think and sometimes it's good to have a feelings podcast so um hopefully next week's will be a bit more of a dissection of uh two big victories until then take it very easy and we'll speak to you next week

1:16:55Thank you.