Arsenal Women Arsecast Episode 160: North London remains Red

0:00Jamie: Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Abnos, senior sports editor from The Guardian. And whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, reporters on the ground with all the big teams, and the legendary Football Weekly podcast, The Guardian. Bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more.

0:43Hello and welcome to the Arsenal Women Arsecast on Arseblog.com with me your host Tim Stillman looking back on Saturday's 5-2 victory at home to Tottenham Hotspur in the North London derby at emirate stadium and uh got the small matter of a pretty big game on wednesday night as well away at chelsea in the champions league gonna preface this with um i say an apology there's nothing i can do about it but uh where i record at home i kind of record my house is very thin but very long so like i'm always near a wall and i have very thin walls to my neighbors and i have very noisy neighbours and it's a really really bad combination and they're the kind of neighbours who it's past 10 p.m in England on Sunday night at the moment and they have kids under five and they are still up and screaming and shouting and blah blah blah blah blah so long story short you might hear a little bit of that in the background I hope not generally the recording software we use is quite good at knocking out background noise but I don't know, you might just hear what kind of sounds like someone in a cell or something screaming.

1:52And I do not have anyone held captive in my house. I'd like to make that very clear. Anyway, caveats and apologies out of the way. Let's introduce our co-host who is also, I think, not being held captive in sunny Melbourne. Jamie, how are you?

2:08Jamie: Tim, I'm good. I sound to be much better than you are right now. We've got the sunrise absolutely piercing me in the eyes. It's been a bit of a dreadful week in Melbourne and now we're back up to like autumn 29 degree days for the rest of the week so I can't even complain at all. North London is red more importantly. I'm very excited to delve into this game but I'm also like preemptively a bit anxious about Wednesday so I'm a bit of a barrel of emotions right now. Yeah absolutely and we were just discussing you know time difference with England having daylight savings this weekend So there's now a 14-hour difference between us, but it sounds like that's kind of better for you anyway with the WSL.

2:49Although this game, 5.30 p.m. kickoff on Saturday, not sure how that worked for you. Not bad, is it?

2:57Jamie: It was 4.30 a.m., Tim, but to be honest, I have a friend from England. Well, I didn't meet him in England. I met him via my work here, and he was going to Tasmania early. And we have our transportation system, guys, for anyone. I know this isn't a Melbourne podcast, but it's not great. And there's no trains to the airport. There's only like a bus and it runs hourly in the morning. So he was going to get up at like the most ridiculous hour. And I was like, mate, I'm getting up for the North London Derby. I'll drive you. So it gave me and I was awake for the game. So it was actually a bit of a blessing.

3:26Jamie: Can I be honest? Ah, nice, nice. Yeah, no, I get that. Like do something before it kicks off and then you're, yeah, you're going. And I mean, speaking about before the game kicked off, you know, Arsenal pulled out the stops here really. to pay tribute to Kim Little, who extended her contract for one more year this week. And this was kind of interesting because I think I've been planning a lot of this for a while. I've been doing former player interviews in the program for a little while. I interviewed Emma Byrne for this one. And the kind of the editorial staff at the program kind of had to tell me, they were like, we're making a real fuss of Kim in this particular program.

4:06So you've got to ask Emma some questions about Kim. So I kind of knew what was going on. But we had a big surfer in the North Bank, the first ever player specific banner for an Arsenal women's player designed by Beth Hall in conjunction with Arsenal Women's Supporters Club. really really great gesture one that Kim herself was clearly really taken aback with and it just felt like quite a good obviously I didn't see until afterwards you know her kind of you know saying oh wow and welling up before kickoff but it it felt like it was just a lovely way to kick things off I think.

4:46Jamie: Brilliant I'm so glad the club did it the banner itself was amazing like so lovely But the reaction from Kim was just amazing. Obviously watching that on TV, it makes you tear up a little bit. And the whole week has been very, very exciting and getting around a player that has just done so much for the women's game. But it's also so nice to have a club legend as big as Kim Little and know that first and foremost she's an Arsenal player and she's an Arsenal legend. It's just been so nice to see how the players and new and old are kind of getting around her and congratulating her for a contract extension of what's been a beautiful career.

5:18Jamie: And one that really stood out to me was I think Alessia Russo. speaking about it on one of the videos that Arsenal posted and she kind of said when I got to Arsenal I was I was shown what the standard was and I knew that I was in a different setting something along those lines because of Kim and the level she trained so yeah it was it was a beautiful moment and I'm really glad and her article in the Players Tribune by the way sent hit me for six I wasn't okay after that but yeah it was beautiful so go read it if you haven't yeah definitely and you know sometimes we're guilty of not doing this until like players have retired or whatnot.

5:49But I think with Kim, I mean, when that woman retires, we're never seeing her again anyway. So you've kind of got to do it now. And not a person who seeks or likes attention very much, but who really deserved it. In terms of, you know, back to business, as it were, the lineup, when I write the previews, always have to do a predicted lineup. Sometimes that's really easy and sometimes it's really difficult. In games like this, it's really difficult because you know Chelsea's on the horizon on Wednesday night. You know some changes are going to be made somewhere, but you don't really know where and who they're going to be.

6:25So very, very difficult to get these ones right. But five changes. But I mean, the three, I guess I'd highlight. Daphna van Domselaar back in goal. I think we'll discuss that a bit later when we get into the game. I did wonder, Jamie, whether Laia Kadina might start again just to give Steph Catley maybe just one game on the bench to ease back in, but no Steph Catley back in. I think, you know, if I were like Adina, I'd perhaps, you know, maybe the writing's on the wall a little bit there. And Smilla Holmberg in for Emily Fox. And I think in the fullback positions, like, you know, you can rotate either one of those, no problems.

7:07But what were your thoughts on the lineup?

7:09Jamie: Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about like Adina. And I thought, yeah, that's a tough pill to swallow because there's obviously a big game on Wednesday that you expect Catley to start in. She's not starting against this Tottenham team. And it's a great Tottenham team, so I can understand you want to play as close to fully strengthened and not completely rotated as you can. But, yeah, that's a bit of a kick in the stomach. And something I was really glad about, you mentioned Smilla Holmberg playing, is the rotation at right back is so good because this time last year, we were in such a heavy period and we were so lucky that Emily Fox was just not injury prone and didn't get a knock because that really, really would have messed things up at the back.

7:43Jamie: So to be able to make that change with a really young up-and-coming full-back, I think we mentioned this last week, and it's really good to have a high-quality player kind of stepping in for Emily Fox. And yeah, she's really showing what she's made of, which we will come on to. But I think a good line-up. And yeah, I wasn't really overly surprised by a lot of it. Yeah, definitely. And I'd second that on Tottenham as well. I looked at the team sheet just as the match kicked off, and obviously I knew they'd gotten better and I knew that they'd signed players and whatnot. But I looked at the team sheet at kickoff and I thought, this is a much, much better Tottenham team than a year ago, two years, definitely two, three years ago, but even a year ago.

8:25Like I said, they've kind of bought nearly all the Swedes. But, you know, like even getting someone like Hamano on loan, I'd forgotten that they'd done that because she'd pretty much gone straight to the Asian Cup after coming on loan. And, you know, even on the bench, they're bringing on, you know, Samanen and Beth England. Like this is, I don't think it's a huge mystery why Tottenham have improved. Like they've massively improved their playing squad and they start the game and they keep the ball for about a minute and a half. I don't think Arsenal touch it for the first 90 seconds. And there's definitely a confidence or a bigger confidence about Tottenham when they move the ball.

9:03But essentially the first time Arsenal get it, Russo gets a shot off it's deflected out for a corner and then I mean I think we saw Bunny Shaw monster Tottenham in the air last week and then Katie McKay puts a corner in Alessio Russo stoops in the best possible start really absolutely honestly like this is the this delivery from

9:28Jamie: Katie McKay is fantastic Tim the defending was kind of hard to watch like even if I wanted Russo to score it was really like I would say if you're putting in a corner maybe Lotto Obenmoye obviously Steiner is there like when she's on the pitch but it's Russo in the nine here like Russo's the player I'm telling my teammates let's just mark her in the area and she's the only one that kind of shuffles free she doesn't have anyone on her I can't remember who Signe Gobsett is even marking but it's not Russo and she's got a free header at goal which is just really deplorable and obviously you spoke about Bunny Shaw and what she did last week to Tottenham.

10:02Jamie: But honestly, Tim, like they've got a team full of really good players right now, but the player they're missing the most is Claire Hunt. And I think what we've seen over the last 12 months, maybe six months under Martin Ho is this big shift towards a quality squad. And you've got, you know, your club legends like Ash Neville, these kind of players, like that's the end of their Tottenham tenure. We need to bring in younger players. We need to change the formation. And Martin Ho has done a really good job at saying like, look, we thank you for your services, but there needs to be change. Even someone like Martha Thomas, she's not been there a long time, but she's towards the end section of her WSL career.

10:35Jamie: I'm not going to say she's at the end. They've brought in Katinka Tamberg, who's a really exciting Swedish player. The only position they've not really got depth in is centre-back. So when Toka Koga and Claire Hunt, who have been really fantastic partnership this year, like absolutely they've done a really good job to drag Tottenham out of it. When that's not solid, they're still playing someone like Molly Bartrip. And I just think Molly Bartrip is a player that embodies what Spurs have been for the last 10 years in terms of loyalty to the club. And I think that she's a fantastic person and a good player.

11:03Jamie: But Spurs need to get to the level now where it's still these kind of club legends. They really need to upgrade on the squad. And they really got done in here for depth because Bartrip is not a very tall defender. Russo is absolutely left alone. There's no communication in the area. So I think you're going to see a Spurs team over the next two years, which they upgrade in all areas. And they're really, really going to improve. but you can tell at this stage of the game, there's still some depth issues in the squad. Yeah, definitely. And one of the things I asked René about afterwards was the speed and intent with which Arsenal played forwards in this game.

11:37So there weren't a lot of midfield touches. Quite often, Lotta in particular was going kind of straight over the top, straight into the channels. But even when it wasn't like straight from the back, the passing forward, there wasn't a lot of deliberation. and Rene said that's because Tottenham go for like a player for player press and Arsenal felt they could get in behind them if they acted quickly and that's what they do a couple of minutes later. Like I said, this wasn't that Arsenal cause a lot of problems by dropping balls over the top and balls into the channels but this was more an example of just really quick passing and the pass from Mariana to Olivia Smith I think is incredible.

12:18This second goal from Russo, I think it's such a high-quality, high-class goal. The pass from Mariana to thread the eye of the needle, and Spurs have all pushed up. They've gone to press. She's played through that line. Olivia Smith kills it one touch in behind to Russo. This is the goal of a team that is playing with a lot of confidence at the moment. And I think Russo's finish as well, because Zitkoga is coming back on the line, and actually has quite a good angle on it. And the way Russo kind of angles it into the corner, really underrated finish as well. I thought this was a lovely goal.

12:57Jamie: Fantastic. It's a fantastic team goal. And I think this is one of the moments of this game. And we'll probably come on to the midfield and how that dynamic works like up front and in the 10. But I think this is one of the games where you really benefit from Mariona playing deep because there is not only stability, but there's progression up the pitch. And when you have someone like Olivia Smith, and that's something that I think we're finally unlocking is Olivia Smith came in as this young star at the start of the season and you kind of had to slaughter in the team and see what she could do, but now she's playing a real role.

13:24Jamie: And you're seeing connections with her and players deeper in the pitch, and I think that comes from Caldente as well because Mariana's ability, we know how good she is to progress the ball. I don't need to tell anyone how that is. But when she's doing that from a deeper area and she's pressing up the midfield, Olivia Smith is getting so much better at dropping into the pockets of space. She's not just hitting the run. She's always kind of there to pick up the ball, and that's something that I think she's improved on massively. and that's not a skill set thing that just improves with time with your teammates and I think that's something that Arsenal are just doing a really good job at it's a great run from Russo obviously but again like the Spurs defenders are just it's so lacklustre how they're setting up in this in this first 20 minutes it's like beyond not good enough I would genuinely be seething if I was a Tottenham fan but at the same time it's really fast football and I like what you said and what Renee said about progressing the ball fast because I think that's exactly what Arsenal do it's like let's just put our foot on the pedal.

14:14Jamie: Maybe it's a bit like, let's be 10-0 up at halftime so we can rest for Wednesday. But it felt like that's what the players were doing, like to score as many goals as we can as quick as we can. So, yeah, really, really good start in the first, what was it, seven minutes? Yeah, absolutely. And Martin Ho said afterwards as well that they'd spoken about that. They kind of felt like they knew it was coming, but his players were getting caught. And he was saying, you know, we wanted to press them aggressively. We wanted the defenders to press up on players like Olivia Smith, because he was saying, and we've said it so many times, one of those wingers always comes inside and plays as more of a 10.

14:48And he was talking about, we told the players to commit to going with the players and they weren't. They were kind of not sure in the first half. I think they tidied that up in the second half, but just a really high quality goal of a team that's kind of playing well and feeling itself. However, Tottenham were always in this game, I felt. even if they weren't in it always from a scoreboard perspective, that they didn't go away at any point. And they get one back from a set-piece, flick on, actually turns out, it looked like it was Tanberg, but it turns out it's a freedom-worn-a-moan goal. I've seen some stuff online with potential concern about Arsenal's set-piece defending, particularly because Chelsea tend to generate threat from set-pieces.

15:36And I thought about it and I thought, well, we conceded to Corinthians from a corner. And I can't think of another one other than that. But it's fair to say, you know, Chelsea should have had a goal from a set piece on Tuesday night that was ruled out. They kind of nearly had one when Kadisha Buchanan ended up kind of karate kicking Borba into the net. But do you have, well, I guess we'll all have some concern about that. What is your level of concern about Arsenal set-piece defending?

16:06Jamie: Yeah, it's funny when you think about it just outside of context. Obviously, there's not really an aerial threat. The defence isn't the most strong statured and really tall. We don't have what Manchester City have in the Rebecca Canack and Jade Rose. We don't have that. And that's just the personnel that we don't have. But I do agree, if you look at the context, I don't really see us suffering on set-pieces this season. And I think we were really worried about that last season. But the thing we were worried about is we couldn't convert offset pieces like were so bad off free kicks and corners.

16:35Jamie: It wasn't necessarily defending them. And I think, look, in this instance with Frida Mornam, her body positioning is wrong. And you can argue that Tanberg is just like she's a very strong number nine and she's clever. She's very good at where she puts her body, either when she's running through, when she's making a run, when she's blocking a defender. She's actually a very good striker that I think we're going to see much, much, much more of in the future. But Frida's body positioning in this goal is just not good. and that is just like a, I think that's a, she's dropped her brain for just 10 seconds and has not been able to be in the right position.

17:06Jamie: It also takes a flick on, which is annoying when you're trying to defend a player because the Tottenham player, I can't remember who it was. Maybe it's Nildon or someone. There's a lot of blonde ponytails on this team as well. They like flick it backwards and then I think Frieda's kind of ready to defend it if it's not getting flicked. So I'm not worried about this. Like I think this is an isolated event. Like I don't want it to be proven wrong because I don't want us to concede set pieces but I'm happy for anyone to kind of come back with the data and the stats as to why Chelsea had a lot of corners as well on at the Emirates like can I be honest I feel like every time I close my eyes like I think about Lauren James taking a corner and it stresses me out a bit and I think they're either eight or nine corners and I can't remember a second other than obviously the um the one where Buchanan had a little bit of a chop in there I can't think of one where I really got nervous in terms of corners so I don't think we're doing a bad job I think that there's there's actually a bit of an ability to defend set pieces I just think this is a really poor example of that because yeah Frida's just not switched on in this moment yeah yeah I mean like if she's faced the right way she had to clear basically really I think you're right I think the flick on probably just and that's why flick ons are so effective from corners my teams want to do them because you know they give you very very little time to react um so at this point you know it's it's 2-1 and like I said I always felt like Tottenham even if they didn't create loads of chances you get a feeling about a team when they go forwards I watched uh Leicester Brighton this afternoon and every time Leicester even when Leicester do go forward on the counter even when they're right in the penalty area you just go no no this isn't going in is it whereas like when Spurs came forward I felt like okay they they look you know they look quite good coming forward however and so the game's on a bit of a knife edge at this point however um again Arsenal go forward quickly uh I think it's Mariana plays a first time ball to Olivia Smith tries a flick on doesn't quite work Spurs go back to Lisa Kopp you know the battle of the two Dutch goalies and Lise Kopp she won't want to see it again I happen to think it's a wonderful pass to Russo and Russo has a hat trick inside half an hour I hope everyone likes Seven Nation Army was her kind of joke afterwards because that's what she's chosen as her goal music I do like that song even if it's a bit overkill but I'm happy to listen to it as often as possible quite frankly if it means Alessio Russo's scoring So, you know, at that point, it felt like Arsenal should really take control of this game again.

19:46And look, let's talk a bit about Alessio Russo. And, you know, that's another goal this week, isn't it? That like, this is a player who, to me, is just really beginning to look like, you know, we've always said the elite footballer is there, is the elite and the very good goal scorer, is the elite goal scorer there. and I've always wanted to have that discussion, Jamie, because I've always thought it's in there. I've always thought it's in there and I've just really got a good feeling that we're really beginning to see the culmination of this player now.

20:25Jamie: It's so exciting. It's so exciting. These three goals, obviously, the Lita Cop one is, yeah, that's gold service delivery, gold standard delivery. That is just like, yeah, have the ball in the goal line, something she won't want to watch again. And I feel sorry for her because this was a howler of a game. However, like Alessia Rousseau is in one of those moods. And before I go on to how good she is as a player, I just want to say like Arsenal fans are so funny. Like some of the like tweets and posts that came out after she scored her brace were so good because she's, you know, she's very well known Alessia Rousseau to score a brace and not score a hat-trick.

21:00Jamie: She's not scored a hat-trick for Arsenal before. And some of the people being like, all right, guys, two great goals. Just get ready for her to shoot at the keeper for the next 70 minutes. It's like people are very quick with it. And I just wanted to applaud that because it's very funny. And she heard you and maybe she needed some help from Leeds to Cop. But I do think Russo in this game is getting her third no matter what. She is, it's just, she's a marvel. She's a marvel of a player, Tim. When you think about the fact that against Chelsea, she's playing in the 10 and she's the player of the match.

21:24Jamie: And she was absolutely outstanding. The way she was dominating like that Chelsea midfield, the way that she took on Kira Walsh, who's one of the best central midfielders in the world. And the way that she was holding up the ball, she was threading through to the wingers and to Stina Blacks. And it's like, that was a world-class performance against one of the best teams in the world and the best team in England for the last six years. And then she has to shift her brain in three or four days to play back into a central number nine against a team that plays completely different football. And she's the player of the match again.

21:54Jamie: Like she scores a hat trick. Like that is, that kind of versatility is something that I think is so rare in football across both men's and women's. Like you have a lot of players that can play at like a variety of positions and they can do a job for but you don't have a player that in four days against two different oppositions in two different competitions can completely shift the way that they're playing and I think it comes a lot from the fact that Alessia Russo is a hold-up nine and she can translate that very very well into the ten but in this game it's she scored a header off a set piece she scored off a press and then she's also scored through a through ball like they're not the goals that maybe we usually see Alessia Russo score for Arsenal and I think that that is exactly why you're right Tim like we're unlocking this player right now who is just a whole footballer.

22:38Jamie: Like she can really do it all. And I think that's why it's so exciting to him because, again, like these aren't goals that we usually see Russo score. Like she likes a bit of a scrappy finish, a big finish, a touch around her body. These are striker goals. These are number nine goals. And to be able to do that 72 hours after taking home a player of the match and a massive performance in the Champions League against Chelsea just proves how good she is as a player. And she's just, yeah, she's absolutely fantastic. And this performance, again, just showcase that. Yeah, we'll talk about Steiner as well a bit later, but I love the way they seem to be rubbing off on each other because Arsenal, a big part of their plan was going over the top into the channels.

23:19Usually Steiner starts when that's part of the plan, but they kind of trusted Russo to do it. And then Steiner comes on and we'll talk about that later. So it gets to halftime and there's a change. Caitlin Ford comes on for Olivia Smith. Renee Slager said afterwards that was not fitness related, but related to the fact that Olivia Smith had a yellow card. And I think they felt they just had the depth really to not take a risk there. Interestingly, that happened in the last North London derby. Katie McCabe was booked and she was withdrawn at halftime for Taylor Hines. um you know what what did you think especially now under fully understanding the context like of taking players off when they have a yellow at halftime yeah it's interesting because that's

24:08Jamie: obviously two games back to back that it's happened and I think we have a few questions um about that in the second half but it's probably worth just speaking about it now because I think that's something that again almost showcases that Renee's got a lot of trust in this squad and that the depth is finally there and I think that that's something even at the start of the season I don't think Arsenal would have been able to do that because again there was that big drop off every time we made big wholesale changes it felt like the football and the quality wasn't there and now it is like this squad everyone has their role so I think that maybe those halftime changes when you're on a yellow you trust your players to make those changes and obviously it's a 3-1 you're up 3-1 at home in this like there is context to this like there is comfort in this there's a big game on Wednesday like there is a lot of context to this game but there's also context to the fact that Manchester United lose the Manchester derby obviously Chelsea see, oh my God, that Villa game was so stressful.

24:55Jamie: So I felt like an Aston Villa fan. But like the league is very important, like accumulating yellow cards, no send-offs, like that is very important as well. So I think these two games back-to-back doing that, obviously the Laia Kadena one is a little bit more than just the yellow card, I think in that context as well, like it was the performance a little bit, is good. It's a good thing. Like it's a good thing that Renee trusts her squad to be able to do that. And I think in this game it's the perfect opportunity to do that as well, reshuffle the team. Absolutely fair enough if you want to bring on Caitlin Ford and obviously keep pressing Tottenham further.

25:25Jamie: And I think that's another sign. It's just we're not sitting back in this game. We're going to keep going forward. And obviously, Caitlin Ford is a player that loves playing against Tottenham and she shows that a bit later on. But yeah, I think it's a good indication, Tim. Obviously, we don't want our players picking up early yellow cards and having to do this all the time. But it's a good indication that Rene doesn't have to kind of graft out the game and keep playing with someone on yellow. So yeah, I'm going to say it's a weird positive. Yeah, no, I think so. I just think, you know, Caitlin Ford bringing her on is not a problem, is it?

25:54Like you say, there's not like a drop off there, really. You know, probably playing Katie McCabe at centre-back to take Laia Kadina off, there's more of a delta there, I think. But the same in the reverse fixture, you know, Taylor Hines coming on for Katie McCabe, like that's not a big deal either. There's not a lot between those two players. So I think it definitely says a lot about that. It possibly says a lot about her level of trust in players on a yellow card as well. Like back in November, I think she didn't trust Katie not to get a second yellow, particularly in a derby. And, you know, we have seen Olivia Smith sent off this season.

26:32We have seen that it doesn't take much, I don't think, for referees to book her as well. And, you know, after she got booked, she then gets fouled and draws a booking for a Spurs player. and there always seems to be a bit of a fire around it. So I kind of think definitely best just to take her off when you've got that kind of replacement on the bench. And then this game always felt like this was never going to finish 3-1. Definitely both teams looked like they could get a goal and it felt like whoever got the next one would be very, very critical. It's Arsenal who get it. Lovely bit of kind of battling in the corner from Steiner Blackstenius to keep the ball in play.

27:16Lovely flick from Beth Mead as well. First time to Holmberg and a cross to the back post and Caitlin Ford scores. And again, I think not as technically nice to look at as the second goal was, but there's a lot of nice touches in here. Steiner, Beth, lovely cross. good you know touch and finish by Caitlin Ford this this felt slightly similar to the second goal in the respect of a few players just did something nice like off the cuff I couldn't agree

27:49Jamie: more I think this goal actually excited me more because it was things we need to see from players whereas you expect Mariona and Olivia Smith to be some of the best players on the pitch all the time Stina Blackstinius and I I love what you said to him earlier about how her and Russo are kind of rubbing off on each other and I think they are Stina's always going to run to the channel she's always done that she's always picked up possession when she needs to but this is a player that technically like Russo is one of those players that will keep going keep going keep going keep going no matter when until she drops and Steen is getting so much better at I need to get the ball I need to fight I need to find these like find the short passes I can't just get the ball and slam it into a defender's legs I need to find a teammate like she's getting a lot better at being like a quick and and and savvy footballer the touch from Beth Mead is so good like I don't goal went in how clever this is and how nonchalant it is and like obviously I think the star of the show Caitlin Ford does put it in the back of the net it's a great finish her touch stresses me out a little bit because I think she can hit this first time but it goes in the back of the net and that's just how Caitlin Ford scores like she's always going to do it like that but the I think the star of this one is Smilla Holmberg and this is a player I think that is really really exciting and obviously we get excited about Olivia Smith because she's the she's the new up-and-coming like world-class player but we've got depth at right back in a really young and promising player right now and she's so different to Emily Fox and that is so important for Arsenal like I think that if like what can I be totally honest the first game that's Mila Holmburg played I thought like there were a lot of similarities between the way that her and Foxy played and now I think we're seeing a lot more out of her and obviously like she is gonna get a state get to a stage I think Tim and my only concern is she's gonna have to get to a stage where over the summer one of the like skills coaches is just gonna say like hit across with your left foot for the next three hours because not because she can't, but because defenders will get used to reading her because she's got a very distinct way of the way she puts the ball in.

29:36Jamie: She'll take a big touch. She'll cross it in on her right foot. I think once she unlocks that, she's going to be like an unstoppable fullback. And this is a brilliant ball in. And she's putting these balls in almost all game. Like, it's not like this is a one-off. Her crossing delivery is so great. And I remember Liberty Simons wrote about that when the signing was made, like how good she is kind of with her service. And we spoke about how important that was when you have these kind of world-class forwards to put it away. But I think that's her third assist for Arsenal. Like Emily Fox has had eight over her Arsenal career and they're completely different players.

30:05Jamie: This is no knock to Emily Fox. She's one of my favourite players ever. But we have a different defender. We have a different player in that right-back position to play against different teams. It doesn't just have to be, oh, do we go Steen or Russo? Like how do we beat these teams? It can now be which other players in other positions do we unlock and how do we attack teams down the flanks and also defensively. So, yeah, a player that I'm super excited about because this is a great cross under pressure. Yeah, and so much of what Arsenal did went down the right-hand side. So the way they kind of played in this game, you know, Lotta is almost like a back three.

30:38Like Lotta was over in that right channel a lot, Steph Central, Katie McKay kind of sat in quite a lot in this game so that Holmberg went forwards. and so much. I re-watched the first half earlier. Nearly every single attack comes down the right-hand side, which is why someone like Chloe Kelly, who played on the left, if you feel like she had a quiet game, she did. Not because she did anything wrong, but the ball was just never over there. It was always over on the right, and so Holmberg pushed right on. They clearly felt that Tottenham were vulnerable in Tottenham's left channel. and then at this point you know it's 4-1 obviously there's a game on Wednesday you have to take care of that you have to get players off you have to have an eye on that as well and when you do that you're going to make sacrifices in your performance because Mariana comes off Russo comes off all of a sudden Arsenal can't string two passes together they can't keep the ball Tottenham you know really dominate possession we get a good save from Van Dompselaar from the Beth England header but then a couple of minutes later, Beth England scores.

31:46It goes through Van Domsalaar's hands. Tom, yeah, Tom from the halfway line, he asked afterwards about starting Van Domsalaar and Rene kind of said, we want everyone to be ready, basically. And so it didn't necessarily sound like she'd brought her back in because she's going to be number one now. I think probably she's going to play the Brighton game as like a cup keeper and I think maybe Rene's learned some lessons from the first half of the season about keeping like squad players engaged and involved but as much as the save from the Beth England head is really good this is quite poor and I think maybe we're seeing why Van Domsalaat has at least for the time being lost her place to Anaka Borba here.

32:41Jamie: Yeah, this is really, really not good. Like defensively, I think that the Arsenal team just assumed this angle is not like Beth England's not going to score here and I don't actually think it's a blunder from the team. This is just a really bad goalkeeping error, like really, really bad because it goes through our hands. So, yeah, I think when Leiter Copp gave it to Alessio Russo, I thought, Daphna, this is it. Dutch number one, reclaim it. And then obviously the Beth England head is a really good save. But, yeah, Tim, this is just – this is poor. This is really poor. This is kind of, it wasn't even like, it didn't feel like a massive big blunder.

33:13Jamie: It kind of just felt like, again, like a big drop of concentration, like towards the end of this game where you're 3-1 up and yeah, 4-1 up at that stage. So yeah, it did feel like a big, big mistake and something that we're not really used to seeing Daphna making these kinds of mistakes. But yeah, it leaves a bad question for Renee ahead of Wednesday. And I think we've got many questions about that, but now you're kind of looking at it like she's still a fantastic keeper. like it's one mistake but then you like Barbara has been a fantastic keeper like all the kind of issues we have with her are very hypothetical I think obviously we got lucky with that VAR call otherwise we would have had more issues but there's a lot of hypothetical like anxieties we're surrounding ourselves with Barbara and coming off her line and stuff which is true but we've not seen it transpire yet so what does Renee do in this kind of instance so it's a hard headache of a decision to make because they're both great keepers but yeah big mistake here yeah definitely and I want to have a bit more time.

34:08Because the fact that Rene brought another to, like recalled Naomi Williams and got a goalkeeper in on loan, there has to be a physical doubt somewhere, whether it's with Daphna or Anika Borba. I know Anika Borba did play with a bit of an injury for the first couple of months of the season, but they have to, maybe I'm just making excuses, but yeah, she doesn't look herself and they brought two other goalkeepers in who haven't played over her. So there must be something going on there, and I'll try and get to the bottom of it if I can. But it's not a great last 25 minutes. Personally, I'm happy to set it on fire and throw it in the bin because there's a massive game on Wednesday.

34:53This game was won. Sometimes in a season, managers and teams just have to do that. They just have to say, you know what, maybe we're not going to win this game 6-1 or whatever, and it's not going to look great for 20 minutes, but we've just got to make that choice and kind of park it. But Arsenal do put a bit of sheen on the scoreline because that Beth England goal robbed us of a third consecutive Arsenal 4 Spurs 1, which would have been great for the Arsenal content team. But we still get a pretty familiar Arsenal Spurs scoreline with the 5-2 pullover with the ball in behind. And Steiner, I mean, she bends her run.

35:32She stays on side. She takes the ball. She's got lots of time to think about the finish. She takes it on her left foot and she slots it. Who is this player? Because six months ago, I would not have backed Steiner to score a one-on-one like that. And I just want to read what Renee said about her afterwards. I should say as well that Rene was very quick to credit Kelly Smith on both Russo and Blackstenius and the work Kelly has done with both players. But Rene said something we've been talking about the last couple of weeks, Jamie. She said, what Steiner has taken away is the idea that she has a certain thing and you put her in a box and this is Steiner and she has physical ability and speed.

36:17But there's so much more to her game. I'm so happy and very impressed with her because if I look at who she was when she was 16 and who she is now, it's unbelievable. But she's kind of talking about, and we talked about it even last season, you know, I think we were a bit critical of Rene kind of saying, you know, is this all we're just going to, oh, Steiner's on, we're just banging it over the top all the time. Does look like, you know, they've done a lot of work to bring out more of her all-round game. And the way she takes this and slots this, you know, when I say a different player, like Steiner has always been an instinctive finisher for me.

36:57First time finisher, one of the best around, but maybe not so much when she has time to think about it. But that doesn't really look like the case anymore. And her touch is better and her hold up plays better. She just looks a more all round player right now.

37:13Jamie: 100%. She's been fantastic, especially for the last like four or five weeks. like obviously her performance in the Champions League. She's grabbing assists against WSL opponents as well, which is something like she's assisting the play or she's involved in the build-up. Like obviously that Caitlin Ford goal in this game against West Ham, she has an assist. Like she's involved in the build-up, which is something I think that she's also unlocked in her game. And it's not just small touches in the box. Like she is really, really progressing the ball. And I think that's something as well that needs to be applauded.

37:40Jamie: But this is a player that I do think, like we can look at Lesley Russo and say, you're scoring like a lot more now it's unlocking something I don't think this is something that's always been in Steena I just think this is something that like she is a quality footballer and she's someone that can execute these skills but she needed the environment to be able to be like Steena this is the way that we want you to play and this is how we want you to evolve and I think that says a lot about a player's character when you're almost saying like we need the we need these qualities in this team and we know that you can do it it's not saying that you're naturally that player because I don't think she's naturally that player but she's become that that footballer this season and to be honest I think this is just this is a Stina thing but this is also just a coaching thing because like the most painful six months of my life watching this thing in the last maybe okay no definitely not the most painful but one of the most was the end of the Jonas era that first half of the season where we had Stina and Russo and neither of those players knew what their role was and neither of them knew what they were doing like it was really really hard to watch because Jonas would start Stina one game it was when Russo was on the bench against Manchester City on the opening weekend.

38:45Jamie: Like you couldn't really comprehend that now, but then that wouldn't work. So he'd play Russo and both players kind of felt like they were playing that you had to do the same thing and you couldn't really be your different player and just please score a goal and do what you can to save us. And even last season, I think there was a lot of like, this is Alessia Russo's team and we're building the team around Alessia Russo. And that really is something that Rene brought into the team. And we've seen that through the fact that if you're going to drop, if you're going to bring on Steiner, Russo doesn't come off most of the time.

39:10Jamie: Like she'll drop into the 10, keep her on the pitch because she's probably one of our most, like probably our best player, maybe have a big argument for Mariona as well, obviously. But I just think like this is a team this season where Renee, Kelly Smith, whoever is like really, really implementing this has given both of these players everything that they need to be so important to this team. And it's meant that they've both just evolved as completely different footballers. And Steiner, I think has just maybe like, you'd be beaten down because she's done so much for this club. And then you go and sign this big marquee signing and you know that she's going to be the future for the next 10 years.

39:44Jamie: Like there's a lot of character in a player to stay at the club and say, no, I'm happy in my role here. And now I don't think she's just content. I think she's actually flourishing and she's saying, this is my role. I'm going to play games against certain opponents and that's going to help the team more than Russo would or I'm going to come on and I'm going to make a difference and this is what they need me to hold up the ball. They need me to pick up the pockets in the channel. I just think we've seen a shift of mentality in this player and that comes down to coaching, but that comes down to individual talent.

40:07Jamie: And yeah, she's just someone that now you just would hate to see her ever leave because she's becoming, again, a more complete footballer and these are the best this is the best striking partnership in the league I won't have arguments about Miedema and Shaw because Miedema is not a nine anymore so I'm saying it's it's Russo and Stina and yeah just phenomenal again yeah it's really interesting they're both hit form at the same time if you were to say to me a few months ago that Stina would be in this kind of form I'd probably think well maybe Lesley isn't and they and they both are which is wonderful um there'll be more to say um on that in the second half because we do have questions about that so why don't we take a break here and we'll be back with your questions in part two right after this immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's world cup i'm alex abnos senior sports editor from the guardian and whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out we've got you covered read watch and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment.

41:11Jamie: We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, reporters on the ground with all the big teams, and the legendary Football Weekly podcast, The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more. The hustle doesn't have to hurt. If performance pressure is making it hard to breathe, Grow Therapy helps you navigate stress, set boundaries, and actually feel like yourself again. Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th, Grow makes it easier to find a therapist who fits you, not the other way around. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability, and get started in as little as two days.

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43:26okay welcome back to the arsenal women ask cast and ask blog.com looking back at saturday's 5-2 win over spurs at emirates stadium in the wsl um going with your questions which as always are submitted on blue sky i'm gonna ask you this one first jamie and it's from at sleepy wrr if russo and Steiner play together on Wednesday can we consider that the preferred pairing for a big game at the moment do you think Rene would start the Champions League final like that yeah I think that this is

44:01Jamie: an interesting question we have a few similar questions um to this and I think this comes into more of the midfield performance against Spurs than it does against okay Russo and Steiner our best partnership right now for me I just think playing Russo in the 10 against a team like Chelsea where we've exploited the weaknesses of their midfield. Like that's been a really big point of contention. That's why we've been able to win these last two games. I think you would be kind of like losing the plot if you decided to not do that and give up that territory. And I am a freedom on and defender. Like, can I be honest?

44:33Jamie: Like I'm someone that like I think that she has what it takes to be a really fantastic player and she has what it takes to really carry Arsenal through a tougher time. But I don't know if she's kind of the player that plays at the level of everyone else when we are in really good form. And I think against Spurs, we struggled a little bit because we lost a lot of midfield control up at the 10. And we were lucky that Smith is that instinctual player that's really dropping into the central areas and picking up the ball because it almost felt like for a majority of this game, I don't know if this is critical.

45:01Jamie: It felt like we're playing without a number 10. And I don't know if that was just the way Tottenham were. I haven't watched the game back, so I don't know if Tottenham were doing a really good job. But I can imagine you wouldn't be putting your defensive focus on freedom on them. So I just think this is a game where it's kind of shown that Arsenal don't really have a 10 that can control the midfield when it's needed. So in a big game where you're going to be playing against players that are world class and that are going to be going forward a lot and breaking lines, I just think it's a no-brainer.

45:29Jamie: You play Russo in the 10 because it's not even a sub in anymore. And I will hand on heart say I was wrong. I apologize. I was very heavily against this and I was wrong. And I'm sorry, guys. I need to admit that. But I just think you're not even downgrading or it's not even a band-aid anymore playing Russo in the 10. It's a player that can really play and flourish there. And I think that you need to get that control. She's our best holdup player. And Steena, obviously, like we've spoken about how good she is at everything else now, but like the run in behind is so vital against this Chelsea team and the way that she can find the space.

46:00Jamie: So yeah, I would say that's our big game partnership right now. Like it just is. I think you need to play Russo in the 10 against big teams. And I think that might be a little bit more of an issue towards the other personnel that we have in that 10 position. And that's something that will be addressed in the summer I assume but I would say so what about you Tim yeah definitely I think I think it comes down to a couple of things Russo and Steiner are two of our form players and it's kind of as simple as that and so you try and get them both in the team they've started you know they both started together Chelsea away they started together in the first leg the plan was for them to start together against Man City but then Steiner got injured and Olivia Smith went up front and while Steiner was injured We saw Olivia Smith up front regularly.

46:45I do think that is how it is de facto at the moment. And I'm with you as well. It's partially because those two are working well together. And Renee said that a lot, actually, even before this period. She said quite a lot that she thinks that they've got a real understanding. But I'm with you as well in that really the only other player who plays in that de facto 10 role is Frieda. And she's a bit five, six out of 10. At the moment, I don't think she's playing badly, but she's not pulling up any trees. And so, yeah, you go with your former players. I kind of think it's that simple and those two are performing.

47:23And, you know, Chelsea are in a situation where they've got to go chasing the game as well. So, you know, maybe they're pushed a little bit higher. Do you have a question?

47:32Jamie: I do. I do. This one is from Mr. C, the Gooner. Chelsea shipped three goals last week against us and three more today against Villa. How confident should we be for Wednesday night? that we will score at least one goal even if Chelsea score. After watching our recent performances, I think we can do it. And then another kind of question along these lines is from Clive B, do you think we'll have to score against Chelsea on Wednesday to win the tie or will the lead we have be enough to see us through? Yeah, it's really interesting, isn't it? Because we look really defensively formidable until this game really.

48:06And I guess the Chelsea game, you know, Chelsea, they did create a fair bit against us. We've got to say that. Chelsea look like they'll score and they look like they'll concede as well. So, I mean, there's a question there about how much we can sort ourselves out defensively and go back to where we were a week or two ago. If we do that, I think we'll be fine. At the same time, we've scored a lot of goals recently and I think it would be silly not to try. And I just think on Wednesday night, like the next goal in this tie is so so critical it really is and I think Arsenal will be aware because Rene mentions it all the time in every game they play no matter the game state Chelsea tend to come flying out the first 10-15 minutes and we struggled to handle that a few times there are times where we got a bit lucky like we did um last week and then there was you know last game we were two nil down in like eight or nine minutes or something and like they they generally create in those first 10 minutes so we have to deal with that but at the same time hopefully try and use it against them a bit and kind of say well actually if you're going to do that there's going to be space and we want to score in the first 10 minutes so i i think this is one of those games where the next goal kind of dictates what happens if there isn't one which i I strongly doubt, but if there isn't one for 60, 70 minutes, then it will turn into more of a, right, we're going to try and hold this from here.

49:43It's just naturally how it will become. But if we get to 60, 70 minutes having not conceded, you'd have to say we've probably defended pretty well to that point. So, yeah, I think we should be confident of scoring a goal, definitely. Like even absent the game state and the fact that Chelsea have to go and chase it, I'd fancy us to score there but I also look at the form Lauren James is in and there's stuff she's doing at the moment that frankly it doesn't really matter how well you defend you know particularly her power off both feet so I can see a lot of things happening in this game I can't see a nil-nil draw put it that way what do you reckon?

50:26Jamie: Yeah I think this game I agree is going to be so open like it's just going to be so open And I think the Arsenal are in the place right now defensively and going forward that they can exploit the open game. Like it's not going to be like honestly watching. I remember going to the volley in London, you know, that pub that plays football. Very good pub. I remember going to that for the second leg of the quarterfinal tie, the Chelsea City game where City had a 3-0 advantage going into this game. And it was like I had my pint and I was so excited for a really good game of football. And I think I was like 20 minutes in and Chelsea had already scored three goals.

50:57Jamie: It was awful. so obviously everything worked out in the end but like I think that this is a team that they've always been prided on their mentality team and I don't know if they have that right now I don't think that their superpower is like as is at its full strength right now and I think that Arsenal need to exploit that because they're gonna have to do the same thing they're gonna have to fly out the blocks they do that all the time but it's gonna have to be far more aggressive because it's a two-goal swing right now but I think that Arsenal have exactly what it takes and the form that they are in right now they have what it takes to just kind of absorb that pressure hopefully not lose the heads and then go forward.

51:29Jamie: I think this game is going to be so open. So I think there will be goals, 100%. I'm not saying like Arsenal are going to win because I think there will be goals and I think Chelsea are going to come out with a lot to play for and obviously it's at Stamford Bridge as well. But, yeah, I think that – no, I'm not going to make any calls. I'm just going to say, yeah, there's going to be goals. Yeah, I mean I think Chelsea are going to start Sam Kerr as well. They started her on Sunday and Sonia said something like it was important to start her today, which I took as a kind of, because we're going to start her on Wednesday.

52:03And I mean, personnel-wise, they kind of have to, really, because Aggie Beaver-Jones looks like she'll be out. Kanarid wasn't in the squad. I didn't see any quotes on that, whether they're just saving her, I don't know. But obviously both teams, compared to last week, boosted by the return of players from the Asian Cup. And, you know, talking about squads, we talked about this a little bit in the first half. Well, I talked about it, so I won't answer this on this occasion. I'll throw this to you. It's from Shane Thomas at TokenBG. Has Renee learned to use the squad better in the second half of the season?

52:39There's a conversation about her not using the full squad earlier in the campaign, but since the Champions Cup, she seems to be marshalling her resources more effectively. I will say, actually, because I didn't say it in the first half, I actually asked her about this a couple of weeks ago, and I kind of said, is this a conscious thing, or is it just there's been some cup games, you know, had a big lead against Lurvin, there's maybe just been more opportunities to rotate. But something I asked her in the first half of the season was about maybe not, I asked her about, you know, there's quite a few players who just aren't playing, like who are a bit cold.

53:15And she said something like, yeah, we've learned, you know, to make players feel more valued in their roles, which I don't think she was just saying by putting them on all the time, but by talking up what they can do, whether they come on or not. But what do you reckon? Do you reckon, do you get the sense the squad is being used better or that perhaps it's the second half of the season, there's more games, there's more cup games, more injuries? What do you reckon?

53:43Jamie: Yeah, can I be honest? I think that there is a massive shift. I don't think it's like a more cup games thing. Like this time last year we had all the same amount of cup games and there was no rotation. Like I saw this question, I thought it was really interesting. So I went back to the fixtures and last season we played Leicester City. We won 5-1 just before we played Lyon at home. And our lineup was the changes made from the Leicester game to the Lyon game were one player. It was Russo, Festina, Blaxdenius. Right. And that was obviously the only player, like Russo was the only player that got rested.

54:17Jamie: But it was the same midfield three. It was Mariona and Little. It was Freedom Ornam, Fox, Williams from Catelyn, McCabe, Meade and Ford. It was just you change your number nine. And honestly, I think you start like you maybe start Steiner against Leicester no matter what anyway. Just like that's a personnel thing. So and that's what we were having. We were having these conversations this time last year, Tim. Like it was like we know the lineup every time at the start of the pod. It was like no surprises because the lineup is the exact same. The double pivots the same. We were kind of worried about it.

54:43Jamie: It's really just a question of who starts in the striker. and maybe at the start of the season it was a similar conversation as well where the players on the bench weren't trusted and there were a lot of situations where I remember at the start of the season with Kyra Cooney-Cross, Victoria Pelova, these kind of players, we were saying like when is their time to kind of come into this team because the team aren't playing well so we need to make a fix and right now it's interesting because we are playing well but Renee's still trusting our squads to make those changes. It's not like, oh, it's working so let's go with it and I think that is a personnel, like we made some signings in the summer, not as much as maybe everyone would have hoped, but this is a situation where Renee is the manager of this football club now.

55:21Jamie: This is her football club and it was this time last year, but it's just different because she doesn't have to scrape the results until the end of the season and kind of figure out what she wants to do with this team and what kind of football she wants to play and who are these players and so on and so forth. Now this is her squad and we're playing so well because of the rotation. And I think that comes with trust and I think that comes – I go on about players playing their roles. There's no tomorrow. It's all I bloody speak about. But I do think it has so much to do with it. Like you can make these changes.

55:46Jamie: You can take off Fox and play Holmberg and know that she's going to have a role. Or you know that you can play Russo in the 10 and you can put Steiner up front. Or you can change the left back if you want to. And Taylor Hines is there. And you've made quality depth signings. And I think that that is what that comes down to. But yeah, I would say there's 100 % been an astronomical change in the way that Rene uses her squad. And it's really, really making this team are benefiting from it. And Tim, I don't think we would have been saying, are we 3-1 up in a Champions League tie without Leah Williamson?

56:16Jamie: I don't think we would have been saying that last year against Chelsea. And that goes to show that we've got the depth. Lots of Wobbenmoy can come in and do an excellent job. So, yeah, I think there's been a massive change and I think it's something that Renee should really pride herself on because I think that's where a lot of the success is coming from. Yeah, definitely. And there's just more of her players now. I think players like Taylor Hines and all of that underneath it. Do you have a question? I do. This one's a little bit more player focused. We spoke about her before, but maybe just a little bit of a question from Alex Ranalford, I believe.

56:52Jamie: Do you see a future in a more advanced wing position for Smilla Holmberg as an attacker, or is she earmarked as the future right back at Arsenal? I think maybe time to time, but we've got depth there as well, so I don't really see it unless there are injuries. is I think I'd say think of the fullbacks the same way you think of the wingers now in that all four of them are going to play in pretty much every game like so you know I know we don't see Taylor Hines in this game but like Hines, McCabe, Fox, Holmberg generally speaking they'll all play a fair chunk of minutes and we'll swap them out and particularly because it's such a kind of physically demanding position we ask you know we ask players to invert and stuff like that and get forward so i think what renee wants is a nice little carousel um of full backs basically so no i don't see that with holmberg i just see her being a right back who'll play a lot of minutes probably slightly fewer than emily fox i do think emily fox is is the better of the two um which is fine because smilla holmberg's 19 years old um and emily fox is is bloody brilliant as well so like it's it's absolutely fine i think um you know possibly what you'll see as well this was a home game right like you know smilla might pick up some of those home games in particular where arsenal think they're going to dominate because she's she's so attacking and so good at going forward so no i i don't think we need to think about the full backs as like who's first choice who's second choice because we don't really think the wingers that way anymore do we it's not like it's Beth Mead and Caitlin Ford it's like whoever starts out of Mead, Ford, Kelly and Smith almost invites little to no conversation and I think the fullback's going to be exactly the same so I'd say prepare to see all of them basically at varying points what do you what's your kind of your feeling on that one?

58:54Jamie: I don't even think I need to go on I agree with everything you said there Tim. Okay so what about this one from at NDMW I hadn't thought about this as an angle from the game which why when asked the question Chelsea should have more quality than Spurs but do you believe the second half was a good dress rehearsal for Wednesday 3-1 up and seeking to manage out the win against opposition who remained up for a fight and offered attacking threat right to the end though we looked a bit vulnerable at the back. So yeah, that's something I didn't think of at the time. At halftime, we had a situation where we were 3-1 up.

59:31We were kind of looking to manage the game a little bit and we were playing an opponent who wouldn't go away. I mean, I don't think that was deliberate on Arsenal's part, but potentially like a good dress rehearsal, right?

59:46Jamie: Yeah, I didn't actually look at it like that either. That's a great question. Yeah, maybe. I think maybe you could say that. I think there's a little bit more at stake in the, obviously in the Champions League game. And I think you've got on the other end, like Sonia Bonpastor is a player and a manager that has done it and done it multiple times in both. So, yeah, I think that it's a different situation in the way that Chelsea, it's like throw everything at it because then you're out of the competition. I think Spurs are very happy to settle for fifth this season. I don't think anyone's touching fifth and I don't think they're touching fourth.

1:00:15Martin Ho doesn't either. He said afterwards, he said people talk about us going for the Champions League. He said, we're not. We're not on that level. That's not what we're going to do this season.

1:00:24Jamie: It's so funny watching Spurs, like the light leaves Spurs. At the end of the day, Robert Villahueva used to talk a big game. We want to be playing Champions League. And by the end, it was, we just have to accept that we're not at that level yet. But yeah, they will be. I think that Spurs will be eventually under Martin Ho. But sorry, I digress. I think that, yeah, I wouldn't say it's a direct dress rehearsal. I think what's positive out of that second half is that it wasn't great. Arsenal did keep attacking though they score two more goals like it's not like a sit back take those three points and I think maybe we would have seen that like even this season at the start of the season we've grabbed a one-nil lead the team have decided to stop playing football Aston Villa oh my god I'm so I'm so traumatized by that game and that late equalizer but even the Brighton game where we scrape a win at home like it really feels like they take their foot off the gas and not taking your foot off the gas when you've got a Champions League tie on Wednesday is really, really positive signs.

1:01:17Jamie: And I think although the football was not pretty, I think it didn't look great. They still scored two more goals and they still do Spurs by three goals. So yeah, I think maybe a dress rehearsal in the way that the mentality needs to continue, but not a dress rehearsal in the way that the context, I don't think the players feel, would have felt much pressure in that second half as opposed to Wednesday, where there will be a lot of pressure. Yeah, definitely. Let's do one more each. Do you have a question? Then I'll do one to wrap up afterwards. I do. This one is from at catheik216. Who do you start in goal for the Chelsea game?

1:01:55yeah I think it's going to be Anna Kaborba I think maybe up until that Beth England goal Daphna van Domsalaar you know might have been in with the shot I don't think it was entirely just because you know they wanted to keep van Domsalaar going wanted to keep her engaged I'm sure that René maybe had a question and thought okay let's see what Daphna looks like and if she plays well maybe she comes into contention. I think particularly just because Annika, I think she's a really good shot stopper. I'm not sure she's quite as good on, you know, taking high balls and quick off her line, both of which are important when you play against a team like Chelsea.

1:02:44So I think there's an element to which this might have been a bit of an audition for Daphna. I think that Beth England goal might have meant that she failed that. So I'm expecting to see Anika Borba in goal on Wednesday, basically for that reason. What do you think?

1:03:02Jamie: Yeah, I think that I agree with you. I do agree with you. I think that Van Dompselaar doesn't start this game if there's not a question of who starts, though. Like, I do think Rene's played her, like you said, like in this North London derby as a maybe, like not to put all the maybes, if, buts, maybes in one scenario, but maybe you're right about like there is something to the goalkeeper signings in January. Maybe she has been picking up an injury. We're saving her for this tie. Player in the North London derby is a curtain raiser for Wednesday so that she's ready, so that she's primed. But I just think like Bourbon has not done enough to discourage her from starting.

1:03:36Jamie: Like that high ball and obviously the VAR disallowed goal for Berman is a massive mistake and that's a big momentum swinger. And I can see why that would be enough reason to say we're going to go with Van Domslaar. At the same time, Beth England's shot is just as much if not more of a reason to not go with Van Domslaar. So I think it's a tough situation because you've got two great keepers. But Bourba, again, like I said earlier, we're all getting caught on these hypotheticals. I think you have to play her because she's not really done a lot to prove us wrong yet. So, yeah, a situation I did not think we were going to be in, can I be honest, Tim?

1:04:09Yeah, yeah. You can spin it both ways. We've got two strong goalkeepers or we've got two goalkeepers with question marks over particular elements. I think Annika Bourba has been good. It's just those couple of bits and pieces which might be important in a game like Chelsea. Otherwise, after the Chelsea game, if it wasn't them, I'd definitely say Anika Borba, because I just think maybe there are things they saw in that first leg that maybe gave them pause for thought for the second leg. Let's do a last one then. I'm interested to get your perspective on this watching at home. from Helen M at HXM829.

1:04:55You may not have seen this because of doing press stuff after the game. The 5.30pm kickoff created a much better atmosphere. Even when exiting the stadium, there was singing and chanting. Do you think we could see more 5.30 kickoffs next season? I'll nibble on that first. Unfortunately, I don't because the reason we're not seeing them is because that's a Premier League slot and Sky at the moment don't look like they want to mix WSL and Premier League slots. So unfortunately, I don't unless they change that kind of policy. But yes, the atmosphere was much better. It reminded me of the Corinthians game, which was 6pm kickoff.

1:05:34That does seem to be quite a nice sweet spot, particularly on a Saturday. You know, people who come to games and, you know, sometimes have to choose between like their kids football training and stuff like that. and obviously the atmosphere is going to be better at 5.30 than it is at lunchtime. Unfortunately, it is because there was no Premier League football this weekend. There were more slots up for grabs. But, I mean, what did you make of the atmosphere watching at home? Did it sound and look better to you? I mean, a lot more tickets sold as well for this one, it must be said.

1:06:07Jamie: Yeah, the atmosphere sounded so much better. It was so good. I thought that the pre-match energy was great. I thought the goals just sounded louder across the TV. Can I be honest? My favorite sport games are when like the sun's up when it starts and it's dark when it sets. So good. Love it. Absolutely love it. So I think optics-wise it just looked great. It sounded great. I think the Arsenal fans turned up. But that's always going to happen, men's international break. Something I was unsure about at the start of the season that I'm coming around to, and this isn't Russo and the 10, this is something completely different, is all three of the derbies being played on the same weekend, like the Merseyside Derby, the Manchester Derby and the North London Derby.

1:06:44Jamie: At the start of the season, I was thinking, I feel like people want to watch the Manchester Derby, right? Like, and then they want to watch the North London Derby. So it's no offense to the Merseyside Derby. I'm just going in terms of woe so, like I know where the eyes are being placed. I think that playing them on the same weekend is actually something that works and playing them in the international break is something that works because you can make a big deal about the fact that it's Derby weekend. They did that last time. They did that last season. And there wasn't a lot of chat about it this time around because I think it's a cool theme.

1:07:12Jamie: Like this is all the derbies. And I really think that's something that like the WSL should look at doing. And sorry, I know this isn't actually got anything to do with the 5.30 p.m. kickoff. But I think this works and it works in the international break. Maybe you don't have them all on the same day is something I would suggest. Like the Manchester derby being a few hours before the North London derby. Maybe, but then I guess you watch it in the pub. Like that's also quite fun. Like you watch it in the pub. Do my Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Yeah, that's what I mean. I mean, stretch it out if it's an international break, like a men's international break.

1:07:41Jamie: I like the Derby thing. I'm going to say that that's a yes for me, and I think it's something that women's football can do differently to men's football, like, and maybe exploit that because I think there's a market for that, and that's fun. Like, I'd watch the Manchester Derby at the pub, and then I'd walk down to the Emirates or something like that if I was a match-going fan. So I like that, and I think because the 5.30 kickoff, I think there was energy from that game earlier, and then it comes into the North London Derby, and everyone's feeling that kind of rivalry. I just, yeah, I liked it, and I think it worked because of that as well.

1:08:08Jamie: Obviously, 5.30 is dream slot and it was fantastic, but you're right, logistically it doesn't work. But I think there's something to be said about this international break for the men's and how we can make that a bigger thing because it's fun. I thought it was fun. Yeah, generally they try to do that, particularly because it means, generally means that the stadiums are available. The last one though in November, they messed up because it was only the North London derby and Tottenham Stadium wasn't available. Oh, yeah. And so, because like sometimes what can happen as well, I said this after last week against West Ham, right?

1:08:46Like it's the quietest press box I've ever seen. It was quite a quiet press box again. And that's kind of because you've got such a small press pack and you've got the Manchester derby and you've got the North London derby and most are going to go to the Manchester derby because there's really something on it for both teams. Whereas in this game, there's kind of only really something on it for one of the teams. So it can be difficult to get the coverage in terms of media, which is why I'd love to see like Friday night, Saturday, Sunday, really kind of string it out like that. But yeah, but then we had the reverse at Tottenham where they made it like the only big game in Brisbane Road.

1:09:29and I was in the overflow behind the goal with no power because the press box was full because WSL football messed it up on the fixture list. So, yeah, generally they do try and do this as much as they can in the men's international breaks. But it's just so much nicer, like you say, like a 1.30 kickoff, a 5.30, better spread of games on the Sunday. you know I was able to watch even like Brighton Leicester today because I'm just so starved at watching other WSL games but but obviously in terms of the stadium atmosphere it makes a massive difference it's still a big ticket seller even if like the North London derby if we're honest still doesn't feel massively like a derby in the women's game the Kim stuff before as well I think that kind of really gets people going and the fact that Arsenal are playing well at the moment and And they won a big game on Tuesday night.

1:10:27I think it all plays into it. But unfortunately, we are going to revert pretty quickly to Sunday midday again. But I don't know what will happen next season because I'm not sure that Sunday multi-view thing, whether that's taken off, whether they try and give it another year. I don't know. And I don't know what the alternatives are. But that's a question we get a lot, and I'm sure we'll get a lot more. but Arsenal beat Spurs 5-2 bottom line Jamie should we leave it there we should leave it there North London is red Tim see you all on Wednesday yeah so we will do a podcast for you probably we'll have to record it Thursday evening UK time so that it's out Friday but for those of you who listen to Counterpressed which I hope is all of you because it's a really great podcast I'm booked to appear on that on Thursday morning.

1:11:19So I'll be on that. And that will come out a little bit before this. But obviously me and Jamie will record Thursday evening, put something out Friday morning, UK time again, and go from there. Because obviously it's such a huge game. We really have to talk about it. And then obviously we'll do something post-Brighton as well in the FA Cup this weekend. But thanks so much for joining us. and we will speak to you again very very soon indeed take care of yourselves

1:12:07Looking for soccer analysis more knowing than a Carlo Ancelotti eyebrow raise with the World Cup around the corner join me Max Rushton and the Guardian's expert soccer journalist on Football Weekly for all the latest soccer action and news throughout the week. We'll cover more ground than Drew Bellingham in a Champions League final with conversations sharper than an Arsenal set piece. For fine margins, fun debates and full-blooded tackles, Football Weekly. Listen wherever you get your podcasts and watch the full episodes on YouTube.