Arsenal Women Arsecast Episode 165: There will be no Oslo this year, I'll tell the children

0:00Jamie: Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Abnos, senior sports editor from The Guardian. And whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, reporters on the ground with all the big teams, and the legendary Football Weekly podcast, The Guardian. Bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more.

0:44Hello and welcome to the Arsenal Women Arsecast on Arseblog.com with me your host Tim Stillman looking back on Saturday, Sunday, lost track of the days now, Saturday's Champions League exit away at Lyon. Arsenal took a 2-1 advantage to France from the first leg, but lost the second leg, 3-1. Semi-final stage, they are out of the Champions League, the trophy they won last year. There will be no Oslo this year, I will tell the children. And as ever, to break down that second leg with us is our co-host Jamie Spanger. Jamie, how are you

1:22Jamie: doing hey Tim I'm I'm all right this is not the conversation I wanted to be having with you this Sunday well Monday morning Sunday evening for you uh yeah I'm okay processing honestly maybe more so processing the Manchester City Liverpool result last night which I'm sure we'll come on to but yeah it's just not been a good weekend in women's football like can I be honest but we'll get we'll get through it yeah yeah what what time was kickoff for you your time um it was good it was 9 p.m. for honor wait 11 p.m. sorry which is good okay that's all right that's right um yeah yeah so exactly the same as last year and um yeah I mean the the Man City game today against Liverpool I watched it as well and I really wasn't expecting to be tense or nervous or even unhappy about it because I was I was kind of fully expecting even with their kind of wobble against Brighton last week I was still expecting City to do the business but it was a little bit of a kick in the guts for them to do it in stoppage time and particularly after Jennifer Falca had played so well and then let that goal in right at the end and Liverpool had some chances to win it themselves I think just before that as well so it did feel a little you know that kind of oh my god we might actually be able to do this feeling and to have it taken away.

2:44Yeah, I did feel a bit, down's too strong a word because my head hasn't been in title race since like October, November, but it kind of did feel like losing a game, didn't it, somehow?

2:56Jamie: Yeah, honestly, like Liverpool had to give us hope, honestly. Like the first five minutes, I was like, hang on a second. What's going on? This is a game and I thought they played really well. I think Liverpool are finally, like what Gareth Taylor is finally realising is that he doesn't have the stars. He needs to play a system and they're playing a really good system. So it was a great performance from them. I think they deserve more than they got. And City, yeah, they didn't look great. They did miss a lot of chances, granted. But yeah, it's annoying when you get hope, Tim. I would much rather City have just come out the gates and won 7-0.

3:27Jamie: Like that's a lot easier to handle. Yeah, I'd have just turned it off after 20 minutes. But yeah, it's a real regret this season, I think, that we haven't put more pressure on them. And this is almost like a flip-reverse of the men's situation, really, where City have been miles ahead all season. They haven't done it for a long time. And this just happens in football when someone hasn't won the league for a long time and it's in sight. They're under pressure. It tells. There are lots and lots and lots of examples of it. And I really think maybe if the season had a couple more games or we just hadn't been so bad in October, November and we had City under a bit of pressure, I think it could happen.

4:14But now we have to win three games to take it to the final day. And even if we do that, I do think City will do the business against West Ham. But it would be quite interesting if, let's say, they drew at West Ham on the last day and Arsenal won at Anfield and it came down to goal difference. But that is all miles and miles away. What's behind us now is our Champions League campaign with Lyon going through. Obviously, we'll go through the game a little bit chronologically as we usually do. But I did have this question for the end, but I kind of want to throw this in first. Where were you emotionally with this defeat kind of at full time?

5:01Jamie: To be honest, in the lead up to this game, I was very confident. I was so nervous, but I was confident because I think we saw a lot out of the team in the first leg. I think that my biggest thing after the full-time whistle was Lyon were the better team and they deserved to go through. I completely agree with that. And obviously, we'll come on to the VAR and all that. But I do think that Arsenal were just miles off their best. And I think it's hard at full-time to compartmentalize the entire campaign and say, we're defending champions. We made it to the semifinal. That's three semifinals in four seasons.

5:30Jamie: It was kind of hard to do that at full time because I thought the performance was just way off. I think the next day, like sitting on it a little bit more, it's a lot easier to say, like, there's a lot to take from this campaign. And I think there's a lot to take in the negative way as well, which is helpful. Like, I think we can take a lot of stuff that there needs to be improvements on in order to build the squad so it's sustainable to compete in the Champions League and the WSL. But, yeah, at full time, I think I was a little bit, I was disappointed because I thought the performance just, that's an Arsenal team I don't think we've seen.

6:00Jamie: for a while just in terms of how tired and exhausted they looked and just lackluster. So, yeah, I think, yeah, disappointment, but the next day I'm starting to feel a little bit better about it. Yeah, I felt all right about it actually. And I think it's almost entirely just having won it last year. You know, like if I'm honest, I think we're a semi-final team. I think that's kind of who we are. And listen, we really pulled it out last year to win it, you know, beating Lyon, beating Barca, like you can't argue with that. You're beating the two best teams in Europe to win it. But I think we all know that we weren't actually the best team in Europe last season.

6:41So I can kind of walk with that a little bit. That really kind of cushioned the blow for me. And as you said, I do think Lyon pretty much deserved to go through. And I think the thing is about these games and usually I think in a season, particularly if you fall a little bit short of your targets, It's like the games against the big opponents that tell you the most about yourselves. And the weird thing is for Arsenal, that's usually Chelsea. There's usually a Chelsea game in there where you go, but we didn't lose to Chelsea this season. And I do think knocking them out as well is a bit of a cushion.

7:18The fact that we've at least got that and it's not going to be them in the final. Obviously, you don't get a prize for that, but a little bit of bragging rights. But I felt this game, we'll go into it, but I felt this game's the one you come out of and think, yeah, this is like, this possibly teaches us what we already knew, maybe emphasizes some of those, some of those, I think they're quite small tweaks that are needed that I think we all knew were needed. and when you go away to Lyon and they're chasing the game and they put the hammer down on you and you've got a couple of players missing, it just kind of illustrates those things.

7:56It's sunlight, basically, I guess I'd call it. But, you know, starting line-up after, it should be said, a really good win against Leicester on Wednesday night, 7-0 with a heavily rotated team, not to be sniffed at, pumped up the goal difference a little bit. But the starting line-up was unchanged from the first leg. The only real news there is Chloe Kelly making it to the bench. Any surprises there for you whatsoever in that line-up?

8:25Jamie: No. We said that last week, didn't we, Tim? I thought they were going to go unchanged. I don't really think she had any other option, Renee, to put out a team. I was a bit surprised by the Lyon line-up, though. I think that De Mourne playing in the 10 and Ada Hegerberg starting, I was a little bit surprised by it. Otherwise, yeah, from both teams, what we expect. Yeah, definitely. And De Mornay, I think, has a big influence as well here. We'll go through perhaps some of Arsenal's absences and how that might have shaped the tie a little bit. But I think having De Mornay back, I wasn't happy to see her on the team sheet.

9:00And just a very, very difficult player to handle. and I think Jamie this reminded me not in a good way really about the Chelsea second leg but we had a two goal cushion there and I think it's too strong a bit too strong to say we got away with it Chelsea but it was like we we could have lost that lead you know Chelsea had the chances to do that we needed a world-class performance from the goalkeeper and we had a question on last week's show after the first leg from someone who I can't remember whether we got to it or not but someone asked a really interesting question about whether taking a 2-1 lead to Leon was actually a good thing because of what it would mean for both teams maybe we'd be even subconsciously a bit protective and Leon would fly out whereas last year we were chasing and we flew out at them and in I think the first 90 seconds they get Dianne in behind Katie McCabe she puts a cross in which Ada Hegerberg somehow contrives not to score.

10:06I think she might have been offside anyway. But, I mean, the Hegerberg of a few years ago would have buried that, no question. And, you know, then there's Lindsay Heaps' header from a corner and Ingrid Engen, thankfully, is standing in front of Daphne van Domslaar when I don't think she's really getting an advantage by doing so. I don't think she needed to. but it felt like I knew Leon would start this game quickly Jamie but I don't think we handled it very well in the first kind of 15 or 20 minutes yeah not at all not at all it's interesting the

10:42Jamie: whole chasing the lead and and having the lead conversation I'm really hesitant when looking at football to say it's a bad thing to be winning and like it's a bad thing to have a lead because I do think Arsenal are a team that have showed this season they're a lot better at consolidating than they were last season. And I think that to be a good team, you can't be afraid of winning or holding advantages. But I also think it's completely fair enough to analyse it that way because of how good Lyon are at attacking. Their attacking football is really good. Jonathan Geraldes is one of the best in the world at measuring when his team needs to go and when they need to stay back.

11:15Jamie: So it's always going to be a threat when you're playing a team like that. So I completely understand what people are saying. This first 10 minutes was horrible, I thought. Yeah, I really didn't think Arsenal looked like it. I thought that the defence were really, really struggling. And I think they did well on their individual battles, but they really, really struggled with how fast Leon moved the ball and how fast the players move. And I think the midfield really, really struggled in this as well. And that is a theme for the whole game that we'll come on to, but it's a bad start to the game. And obviously I think, yeah, Leon are a team that are going to start strong.

11:46Jamie: But in the first leg last year, it did take Arsenal 10, 15 minutes to kind of look like the team that were going to win as well. But Leon from the outset were, yeah, they were ready to play and I think, yeah, it set the tone and I wasn't feeling great after that. Yeah, I think our midfield three, De Mournay, because Rene said afterwards that Lyon lifted their level compared to last week in the first leg and they did. And I think a lot, not all of it can be explained by De Mournay in for Schrader. I just think like, and, you know, Selma Basra back in at left back as well. And that was one of my worries coming into this game.

12:24that just instantly makes them more dangerous and offensive. And the way the midfield three popped that ball around, it did feel very 3v2 in midfield. And then they kept getting that switch to Diani, which we saw last year as well. And then I kind of felt maybe I was deluding myself, like Arsenal settled a little bit, got like a foot on the kind of cliff face. And then De Mornay kind of goes into the area. Lota Wubhamoy tackles her from behind, but stays on her feet. And De Mornay goes down. Now, initially, the referee makes the kind of nope. In fact, she makes the ball gesture when she sees it and she doesn't give the penalty.

13:16Now, De Mornay, I think she knows what she's doing. She stays down and she pretends it really hurts, which I understand is all about, let's get this held up so that the VAR gives this a proper look. Because I think VAR is very susceptible to that. I think VAR is quite susceptible to just being like, oh, well, the game's gone on, who cares kind of thing. Whereas if you get the game stopped, they'll have a look. um VAR then sends the referee to the screen to look at it and she gives a penalty now I have a strong view on this Jamie but what was what was your view on how this incident unfolded yeah just

13:55Jamie: to add some comic relief first De Mourne is like holding the wrong leg for like three minutes on the floor which is really annoying because if you're going to milk it like at least pretend that that Wobbenway's actually hurt you um okay I have a bit of a view on this one I think that had the referee called this penalty it's a different story um I think that she gets brought down in the box if that's if that's the situation if that's situation and the referee calls it a penalty I don't think that VAR can overturn that being a penalty and that's how I felt if anyone is a if you are an Arsenal men's fan that's how I felt about Ezra's penalty that got overturned um midweek against Atletico Madrid there was nothing to tell the referee that it was an obvious error and it should have been overturned so I wouldn't be upset if the referee had called a pen In this instance, I don't think that there is enough to say that, like the whole point of AAR is that they have to fix a clear and obvious error.

14:48Jamie: That's their mantra. That's what they have to do. In this instance, I don't think there's actually enough evidence to prove that this is a penalty for the referee to then go, I'm going to overturn my original decision and award a penalty. If it's given in real time, I can completely see it. I do think lots of Clipsa. I do think there's contact with the ball. So in my opinion, Tim, I just think the first, this whole game is plagued with VAR. I watched the NWSL yesterday. If anyone watches the NWSL, Angel City versus Utah Royals had like 20 minutes of extra time because of VAR and it was just stupid stuff and it kills football.

15:20Jamie: But yeah, I think in this instance, Tim, my opinion is that if it was given on field, fair enough. But I just, yeah, I got annoyed with how, how keep flip-flopping this VAR system is and how referees just, yeah, they're kind of forgetting what the sentiment of VAR is. So yeah, I wasn't overjoyed, to be honest. Yeah, that's exactly how I saw it. I was very frustrated. I come into it with extra baggage in that I am completely and utterly anti-VAR, always have been. I don't want it whatsoever. But I understand that that's never going to happen and that it's here to stay and all of that. And therefore, yeah, I'm interested in the application of it.

16:04there's I've seen that I must have seen the replay 20 times I'm still not sure I still don't know yeah and I'm with you if it's given fair enough like I think it's one of those it's so borderline if it's given it's right if it's not given it's right like she kind of gets the ball and the player kind of at the same time I think and I just think there's no grounds to overturn that whatsoever um and VAR should not be getting involved in that and I thought there would very like inexperienced as well because like I say I know I'm not having a go at De Mournay by saying this I kind of want one of our players to do it yes by kind of going down getting the game stopped making sure that VAR looks at it to give herself a chance I just think the VAR very very weak um you know in in the palm of like Leon's hand there but I you know I come in with that baggage that I was in Madrid on Wednesday night and had that and I just I detest VAR so I'm always going to be a little bit more hostile but I found it very frustrating that that met the kind of threshold for an overturn and so Wendy Renard steps up and Daphne van Domselaar saves the penalty and we get play goes on for about 30 or 40 seconds before clearly VAR says something about Daphna coming off her line and we get a retake now what did you make of that element of it

17:35Jamie: honestly this game again like even with the offside with it no it wasn't given offside was it was given his offside obstructed from from Ingrid Engen yeah like this game this first 30 minutes was so frustrating because it just stops that and it's I truly believe that it's ruining football like it's making football really really bad and I do think there's a world where you can do the goalkeeper stuff with goal line technology you don't need VAR for that and I think it should be automatic I don't really know how a penalty is being taken in the in the Champions League and VAR isn't already watching the goalkeeper being off her line like why is that not what they're already watching as the penalty is being taken I don't know why it takes 30 seconds to review because she was clearly off her line to be honest when I took the penalty I thought like I'm not confident that that's that's going to be that's going to be okay so I just think I'm annoyed as like a fan and maybe it's different if I'm on the receiving end Tim and I'm saying I have to admit like I might have been like justice like that is exactly what we deserved like Russo or Mariona needed to bury that penalty the second time but I just think it's frustrating because it's still not at the level it needs to be in order to be operational and it like takes away from the game it takes away from the momentum and if you want to have VR in the game there needs to be serious discussions of why it's so bad and so slow and takes so long so yeah I think it was just frustrating from a from a point of view of a fan perspective but at the same time it's probably Arsenal probably need these kind of stoppages at this time at this time of the game I also don't really know why Daphna dove this different way because surely a centre-back is going the same way I don't know I'm not yeah yeah so I I can't argue with it she she is off her line so it is what it is um i have questions about because one of the assistants goes and stands in a position when there's a penalty and their entire job is literally to look at the goalkeeper and see whether they come off the line i listen this this is more about the the actual law itself than this specific decision which is fine because it's correct but like i think it's so harsh on goalkeepers as well it's so difficult to dive without taking a step um so i don't really know why the assistant didn't catch it um initially and there's there's a little bit of latent frustration because i don't think dafna gets an advantage by doing it which which doesn't mean it shouldn't be called but it's just like ah she probably didn't actually need to and there's no advantage there but what's really interesting when you watch it back not one player from Lyon complains or says anything like no one says anything the crowd don't react it's one of those where if that had not been called up nobody would have talked about it which again doesn't mean it shouldn't be called but a little bit kind of farcical Renee referenced that after the game as well she was asked about the refereeing decisions and as ever with renee she said we respect referees decisions i think she's got very like no excuse culture about that type of thing but very close to an implied criticism she said the first half was very stop start but then to be fair she said that that wasn't always at them she said in fact we benefited from that sometimes because of what you said, because it kind of took the sting out of the game a bit.

20:53But I think that was as close as Renner gets to a very slight implied criticism. I do think there is an issue with officiating in the Champions League where, with all due respect, you've got a referee from Italy. There is no game in Italy. There is no team in Italy that plays like Arsenal and Lyon do. however it's it's like that's not a solvable issue because these referees have to be exposed to these games to be upskilled so um and ultimately i don't think officiating decided this game anyway so but i think it was just worth discussing those those kind of two decisions but obviously reyland steps up the second time it's not a great penalty the second time either i think if dafna of goes the right way i think she gets it um again and from here it felt to me like it was about hanging on really until half time and trying to keep the tire level didn't do that um you know renee referenced before and after the first leg about leon's height and their power from set pieces they restricted the number of set pieces that they got in the first leg at the emirates They couldn't do that this time.

22:08And Diani loses Kim Little on the back post and scores.

22:15I think I saw a stat that since the beginning of last season, Arsenal have conceded 19 goals from set pieces and Chelsea have conceded nine. I think that was right. What was your view on this one?

22:30Jamie: Yeah, I think it was Tom Gary for The Guardian actually wrote an article. I've only just read the start of it because I just had my alarm set very early. So I only read the start of it. But he wrote about how there's a lot of positives to take from this campaign for Arsenal. But the biggest one is how bad they are at set pieces and defending set pieces and how many of their big goals against them come from this. Which, yeah, I think is a very valid criticism because in this game again I wanted to tear my hair out a little bit and I think the matchup in this instance of Kim Little and Diani is kind of bonkers anyway but then I guess you look at the Leon team and they're all pretty pretty threatening in that box I just think that in set pieces for some reason we're very like we hold our ground like we don't we don't really follow players if you watch a lot of our defensive corners there's a lot of like holding ground assuming that the ball will go in the right area and then and getting rid of it I think Steph Catley plays a big role in defending set pieces so that's something we need to probably notice is we've lost her in in this tie I think this is a really really bad goal to concede on all ends I think it's a great ball it's a great finish I don't think like Diani's virtually unmarked at the back post and I also think the keeper has let like a massive gap like that that gap should be closed down it's a hard angle to score a goal from so I think defensively I don't I don't know how to diagnose the problem Tim but there is a problem and I don't think it just comes down to height I just think defending the set pieces.

23:54Jamie: Arsenal, they never look, it's like they're holding a zone. It's really weird. It's almost like they're very static when that ball comes in. And I think Leon maybe didn't capitalize on that last week, but they did this week because there's movement and the players like Deani comes off, she goes to the back post. I just feel like something in the defending, it's not just an aerial insufficiency. It's also, yeah, this zonal marking thing is something I find quite confusing. So especially in women's football, because you don't see it a lot. So, yeah, not good and another one that definitely needs to be reviewed and looked at in the summer because it's a big, easy cop-out for other teams when games are close, especially in the WSL, like teams lower down the table, to score a set piece on you.

24:34Yeah, yeah, and you look at Man City's record from corners and set pieces this season and that's going to be a big part of why they'll probably win the league. I have a couple of views on this. I mean, I think it's an amazing finish. And I think that Daphne, and I think I kind of forgive her for this, just thinks it's going out and kind of stops. And it's quite an athletic feat both to get contact on it at all and to direct it through quite a small gap like that. And I just think for half a second, Kim and probably Daphne I just think it's going out. And you're right, this particular one is not really about height because Diani doesn't head it in.

25:22I do think that largely, not entirely, but largely it is a height thing. It reminds me of when Nuno Espirito Santo was coaching Nottingham Forest, when they first came up, they had the worst defensive record from set pieces and they bought a goalkeeper who was six foot eight and then they bought a defender called I think Milenkovic who's six foot five and they suddenly became the third best at defending set pieces in the league and I think that there's a real comparison to be drawn here with how Arsenal scored a set piece in the first game where they literally rolled it along the floor because ultimately they felt they couldn't compete with Leon aerially so and we do that a lot and obviously you can do that attacking set pieces that's an imaginative inventive way of kind of of of you know making up for that height imbalance I think Arsenal are third bottom for aerial duels one in the WSL overall but obviously that's when you're attacking set pieces and you know what's coming and other teams aren't doing that to us.

26:34So it does have to be sorted one way or another, definitely. I imagine that would be pretty big on the agenda in the summer. So that's the first half. We're 2-0 down, 3-2 down in the tie. And the second half was different. And I think Arsenal tactically did make a little bit of a switch. but I do also think that game state made a difference here. I do think Leon kind of really went pedal to the metal for 45 minutes. And once they had the lead, I think you naturally drop off a little bit. But Arsenal come back into the game. They're much better. Steiner has an effort that hits the bar. Obviously, she's offside anyway.

27:19And then Olivia Smith hits the post. You know, McCabe actually puts in a good cross. It doesn't get cleared and she stabs at it. and it hits the post and Arsenal are starting to generate chances. Now, they make a double sub that I'd be interested to get your take on because Smilla Holmberg comes on for Olivia Smith. I think the player that comes on, well, that is a separate conversation we can have actually. Maybe the player that comes off is more a topic of conversation there, But a really interesting one is Victoria Plova coming on for Mariana. Mariana had 66 % pass completion in this game, which is the lowest she's ever produced in an Arsenal shirt by a significant distance.

28:07Only one interception. Catherine Batty from The Telegraph asked about this afterwards and Rene gave a slightly non-committal answer, but she said, you know, Plova's really good at getting between the lines and she's quite aggressive like that. And, you know, we felt that that would work in this game. And I definitely understand that. Pilova has a shot, actually, from the edge of the area just after she comes on. She also gets booked straight away, which wasn't helpful. But I thought she looked good when she came on. But Mariana is not a player that comes off. And I think this is possibly part of the problem, even in the smaller games with 3 or 4-0 up.

28:48and I think in that Brighton FA Cup, Jamie, I saw the light go out a little bit and I think this is a player that's just played too much football in the last two years and I think that's why she comes off.

29:03Jamie: Yeah, certainly. I thought in the first 45 minutes, like the midfield in general, like not just Mariona, I just thought they look so exhausted, bar Kim, to be fair, she didn't look that tired. I thought that Russo and Mariona looked like they were running through cement this entire game. And I think that Russo is a player that will give everything that she has. So it's a bit harder to kind of have that conversation. But admittedly, I still think she looked exhausted this entire game. And Mariona looked exhausted. But because she's more of a technical passing player, she doesn't hold up the ball.

29:37Jamie: She's not got the physicality that Russo has. It's a lot easier to notice when she's off her game. And it was just, yeah, those two players are our best players. and they just look tired and I feel bad for them both. Like Russo played back-to-back 90s for England and then Mariona played a 90 and a 45 and they both look so tired and I think like I said halfway through the second half, I was like imagine this situation next year where there's like a Georgia Stanway, a Geraldine Reutel are like it's the depth that's the issue here and these players have had to play and truthfully I don't really know why either of them really had to come on against Leicester.

30:07Jamie: I don't really know because I understand there's a priming thing where players need to be match ready. But midweek in this block, I didn't really – I was a bit confused when that happened. Neither of them really made like a massive impact on the game anyway. Like the job was being done and I understand chasing goal difference, but there was a bigger task at hand and a more achievable task at hand, I think, because it's in your hands. Like you're not relying on Man City. So I just think this is a classic example of the depth, Tim. And like she just looked exhausted. They both looked exhausted. Pullover coming on, I can understand because you're bringing on an eight for an eight.

30:40Jamie: Like you're bringing on someone that can play in that position. You can't really bring Frieda on in this moment because I do think if you bring Frieda on, you still play Russo in there. Like you lack a lot of defensive responsibility, but also like it will mean Russo goes forward less and that's not something that Rene needs to do in this moment. So Plova's kind of the only player that has to come on. The only other like option is the good old like maneuver that everyone else hates in the fan base where you put Williamson in the six and put Kadena in center back or McCabe in center back. And honestly, at that point in the game, I think I would have preferred that because Leo was struggling at centre-back with like pass completion.

31:14Jamie: She had like one out of seven successful long balls, same as Lotto, I think it was like three out of 12. That wasn't working. So honestly, like you can play FIFA Ultimate Team and that's what I'm doing. But I just think bringing on Pulova, you did lose a lot of control of the ball. In saying that, I still think I see what Renee is saying in the fact that she can break the lines and she's very good at that. The player we probably would have needed in this moment is Kyra Cooney Cross, but that situation is beyond anyone's control. so there's no complaints there. But, yeah, it just goes to show depth, doesn't it, Tim?

31:43Jamie: This is a team that's exhausted and a depth that's not a game. It's not match winning. Like it's consolidating but it's not match winning. If Arsenal are up in this tie, I'm less nervous about Pulover coming off but you're chasing the lead. In terms of the wingers, really odd. I think really odd that Caitlin Ford was not the player to come off. I think she was used as a scapegoat from fans this tie again. I don't think she was awful. um her end product was something that's just like you it's not going to happen in this game you know it's not going to happen in this game I think Olivia Smith needs a moment in a bad game and when you're chasing I think that's the that's the player to have on the pitch it's Miller Holmberg playing at the wing is a whole nother conversation because I thought she was fantastic but we she's a 19 year old right back like again what is our squad what's the state of our squad it also showed that Chloe Kelly's not 100 fit like she's she came on and looked absolutely buggered as well so yeah the state of the squad is I think what let us down in the last in the last 20 minutes because truthfully, I thought we fell off after.

32:38Jamie: I thought it was a good start to the half and then I think we fell off. Yeah, I mean, Leon played on Wednesday night as well and they rested their entire team. Most of them weren't even on the bench. Obviously, there's a context there that they've got their title wrapped up. But I mean, we were playing Leicester at home. And your point there about having more consolidators on the bench, I mean, yeah, like it is mainly defenders. That's who we changed on Wednesday night. like the whole back four basically and um i i think really you're right like the kyra the kyra thing the beth thing it's it's very unfortunate to lose two quite big players and and not to injury um as well um and and that you know that had an impact really but i think if there's a a criticism or a mistake that I wouldn't heavily caveat or contextualize too much.

33:36It's that Pilova should have been playing more minutes and Mariana should have been coming off a lot more during the season. You can't have a situation where like Mariana's playing every minute of every game. And then when it comes to the Champions League semi-final away at Lyon, she has to come off because she's done. You know, you can't have a situation like that, particularly when you've got a player like Pilova, who, whether she fits entirely what Rene wants or whatever, she's a 27-year-old, experienced international. She's a really good player. She can eat some of those minutes up, I think.

34:10And so I do think there's criticism for overplaying. Even if, you know, Arsenal wanted to strengthen that midfield a lot more last summer, and they're waiting till this summer to really bring those targets in. And personally, I understand that. for me the the kind of criticism is you know if you look at Pilova and Mariana on the spectrum it's it's you know I think the balance could have been better there um and that that's kind of a real shame I do think Pilova played well when she came on and actually she has she has a small part in the equalizer as well McCabe has the ball at left back Pilova comes short and she takes a player with her and then Katie McCabe hits a wonderful cross field pass to Smilla Holmberg comes on for Olivia Smith I'm with you I love the work personally that Caitlin did in these two games but I think when you're you're chasing a goal like I don't think Olivia Smith did very much in this game but she hit the post like out of basically nothing and um and I kind of think when you're chasing a goal and if you're going to play like move her to the left and then you've got Smiller on the right who's a fullback because I think though you know you need to balance your wide players a little bit against the team like Leon I understand that but I think like Holmberg and Smith would have done that but Smiller Holmberg on the wing we've seen this so many times now already saw it several times on Wednesday night lovely shift on Selma Basher great cross Russo onto it equals the tie lovely finish as well and Russo has been such a clutch player in this tournament and you know Arsenal are back on level terms at that stage and it it put the tie in the balance when when maybe I think it was too much to say the goal was coming but we'd we'd started to create stuff and at that point it really felt like we had a tie again 100 the last 20 minutes

36:08Jamie: this game kind of felt like the Wolfsburg semi-final from a couple seasons ago yeah when this equaliser went in and I was thinking, ooh, I hope it doesn't go the other way. But just in the way the momentum was swinging, a fantastic goal. Fantastic goal. Like you have to praise this. Katie McCabe and again, like I just kind of cringe every time I think about like the player that we're losing because this is a brilliant ball. And in a game where there is little pass completion, little long ball completion, I think the back four really struggled. I'm not going to say that because I actually thought Emily Fox was fantastic.

36:40but like in terms of progressing the ball I don't think anyone was good on the day so to be able to

36:45Jamie: pick this pick this ball out to uh two one down sorry two nil down on the day um is fantastic Smilla Holmberg she's a player that I am so glad we've foreseen like sometimes with Arsenal it does feel like get the free agent a really good proven player like she'll fill a position but this one is one that it's like no no that was our discovery like she was really really good at Hammersmith and obviously she played the Euros and the England fans will know where from that penalty miss but But she is a player that I think that Arsenal did a really, really good job at scouting. And she's getting to play a massive role.

37:15Jamie: And I love how versatile she is because she can be a winger. Like, I have no qualms with her being a winger. It's just in a Champions League semifinal when she's the only option. That is the qualm I have. Great cross, fantastic finish. Like, this is what Russo has missed in her game. And this is what we've seen this year. She's a killer instinct kind of box player now, which is so nice. And that's coming from her obviously playing a bit deeper as well for a majority of the back half of this season. So, yeah, really good goal. I had some hope, Tim, to be honest. I thought maybe this is one of those games where we just hold on.

37:44Jamie: Like we just hold on, we just need to hold on. And I think, yeah, it's just unfortunate when it goes the other way. But in isolation, a great goal and I was definitely celebrating. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, at that point I was finding it difficult to call because I did wonder, you know, I said after the first leg, I wonder with Lyon, you know, are they used to games that are intense for an entire 90 minutes? And, you know, have we got them here? Have we kind of, have they thrown everything into that 45 minutes? But obviously the players they can bring off the bench as well, like just casually throwing players like Totto on and Betcho and players like that.

38:25You know, they had more on the bench than us in this game. And, you know, another real regret from this tie, not having Beth for both legs. I think Leon would look at it and would say they've had De Mornay for 90 of the 180 minutes. We've had Beth for zero and we had Chloe Kelly for like eight minutes. And I think they had to leave that that long just in case the game did go to extra time. In terms of what she could manage, I don't think she looked right either. But I guess where I have a slight issue here, Jamie, is we bring on Chloe Kelly, we put her on the left, then we move Emily Fox to left back.

39:03I know she's played at left back a lot in her career. I don't think she's ever played there for Arsenal that I can think of. And so that's the whole left side changed in one swoop. And that felt like something maybe we shouldn't do. I kind of understand why Rene wanted Emily Fox to stay on the pitch. I think that's quite natural. She was one of our best players in this game again. but moving her across to left back when perhaps you've got Taylor Hines there on the bench. I also felt we should have kept Smiller on the wing for another couple of minutes, just see if she could get one more cross like that.

39:45And I think sometimes a player creates an aura a little bit when they do that, when they get the ball, it's like, oh, I've got to stand off for a little bit. Or, you know, I don't think we allowed her to create that doubt by moving her back to right back. So I had issues with us changing our whole left side like that. And I do think it cost us on the winning goal because Chloe Kelly, I think if she's fit, I think she makes that run back. And it's a great ball. But is it Besho who plays the ball from the... And Eula Brand, you know, on the back post and initially flagged for offside, but we had screens in the press box and I saw it.

40:32And I mean, I knew it was going to be a long VAR check, put it that way. Like when I saw the first replay, it's like, oh, this is toenail stuff. And then Jonathan Uraldez was kind of below me and he'd obviously, you know, he could see the VAR screen and he was waving his arms. He was pointing at his watch. of the referee and all of that. And Wendy Renard and Ingrid Engen were encouraging the crowd again, I think, to create that kind of pressure. But, I mean, I think it was onside and a sickener, really, to concede that late.

41:11Jamie: Yeah, this last five, ten minutes were pretty excruciating, to be honest. Just coming back to the substitute, I completely agree. I think Kelly for forward needs to just be a straight swap. Kelly can play at left wing. I don't understand this. I think the Holmberg just needed to play, just stay at right back for this, sorry, at right wing for the last 10 minutes. Like the players can run it out. I didn't have massive problems. Like Katie McCabe struggles against Dianney, but in this stage of the game, like Arsenal are the one chasing the goal. Like it's losing, it's, well, I guess not actually.

41:41Jamie: No, I still agree with what I'm saying though. I think that McCabe's doing a good enough job in the second half. I thought Emily Fox was great. So it just made no sense to me. I just thought it should have been a straight winger for winger swap. Kelly can work off the left. So that was frustrating. um yeah the goal is just a the biggest sucker punch like just air out of lungs like everything sucks in this game like it just makes me look at the whole game with so much dismay but i think there's been a lot of conversation online about the offside and i think it's definitely offside i'm sorry onside onside um because the rule is the armpit people seem to think that it's a sleeve of the shirt yeah yeah you're right it's under the armpit which basically means the top of your shoulder is the only play where you can score so yeah it's it's an onside it's not Lota's fault like why is she unmarked why is she unmarked and I don't really I don't really have sympathy for Chloe Kelly being like having been out and not tracking that run I just think you'll you have 10 minutes in a Champions League semi-final to give 100 that goes for all of the players I don't think everyone was like fully gassing themselves there's a moment in the with like five minutes to go where we're trying to progress the ball and the centre-backs are just walking like it just it really looked like everyone in this game had kind of given up with 10 minutes to go when we're kind of chasing a second equaliser so yeah not good enough this is really a really annoying goal to concede and I just think how are you letting her be unmarked because that's one of the best players in the world the touch and finish is brilliant mind you like it's a great goal but I do not understand in a set piece why you're letting you LeBron just have acres of space at the back post so frustrating for sure and maybe just sums up the frustrations of this game but But again, like I said earlier, Tim, I need to look at this game in isolation because I think there's a lot to be proud and excited of from this campaign.

43:22Yeah, yeah. It was, you know, over 180 minutes. It was a real kind of back and forth sort of ding dong tie. And I saw Max Radwan from the cutback. He described it almost like musical chairs. And it was like when the music stopped, Leon were the ones, you know, who were in the ascendancy. And in one respect, I wonder how different it would have been if we'd had Beth Mead, if we'd had Kyra or whatnot. But Lyon were missing players as well. So not alone in that. And I think we know we probably, I think I always said we came into the season a couple of players short. and I felt like that kind of came home to roost here.

44:11I think if you're laying out this tie, there's two kind of elements to a game, like control and threat, really. And I'd say if I split it into its four quarters in the first half of the first leg, Lyon had control but not a lot of threat. Second half of the first leg, Arsenal have some control and some threat. first half of the second leg Lyon have total control and total threat and then second half of the second leg you know Arsenal had I don't think Arsenal had control but they had some threat but so did Lyon I think if you add it all up over the tie the first half of the second leg they were totally dominant and that was the only period I think where one of the teams could honestly say that they were totally dominant so Lyon I think well worthy of their place in the final against Barcelona.

45:04I do think that'd be a really good game. I'm really looking forward to watching it. But I can't argue with it. But at the same time, like three semifinals in four years, I think that's decent progress for us, given that we weren't in this competition for quite a long time and we've built up. And I think a few years ago, we wouldn't have even competed with Lyon, to be honest. and we had those games against Barcelona where we got done 4-0 at home. I think we've come a long way since then, but I'm able to compartmentalise it a little bit given that we won it last year. And frankly, if you ever had to deal with the UEFA accreditation portal, that was a significant kind of...

45:55Yeah, that made me feel better about it. I didn't have to deal with that again this year, but that was a long first half. Should we take a break there and do, well, we'll do a few questions in the second half.

46:05Jamie: Let's do it. Okay. We will be back with your questions submitted on Blue Sky right after this.

46:18Jamie: Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Abnos, Senior Sports Editor from The Guardian. And whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, reporters on the ground with all the big teams, and the legendary Football Weekly podcast, The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more. Atlanta. Imagine trading traffic for turquoise waters and turning your next long weekend into an unforgettable adventure.

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47:20Okay, welcome back to the Arsenal Women Ask Cast and Askblog.com with Tim Stillman and Jamie Spanger looking back at Saturday's 3-1 defeat against Lyon, which eliminates Arsenal from the Champions League at the semi-final stage. as ever in the second half we'll do your questions submitted on blue sky we've had quite a lot um you know around kind of transfers and stuff like that and the squad and i do feel like it's that's a good this is a good time to have that discussion usually kind of leave that for the end of the season or for january or whatever um but i do think it's pretty pertinent now i think a lot of people feel a little bit like we do um but i'm going to start with something i guess a little bit more um tactical um about the game and this is uh from a at ariella w though less than steiner have formed a good partnership lately couldn't help but notice we missed some of frida's physicality in midfield regardless of her dip in form uh versus past seasons do you think the manager should have put her in midfield um and use some previous matches to help integrate this to get her back into the form?

48:29Or do you think the lineup was right and we just couldn't execute on the day? So I guess that's, could we have used someone like Frieda and her physicality in this game perhaps?

48:42Jamie: I think this is a good question. And it's also a bit of a hard question to answer because I do think everything looks better in hindsight. Going into this game, I would have started Steiner and Alessia. And then maybe on reflection, there's a difference in who I would put out. I think the reason why this is a good question, and I agree that like Frida offers a lot physically, Lyon put forward a really attacking midfield. Like we didn't have a lot, they didn't have a lot of like defensive duty. So it's almost like in this game, had it been 2-2 or Lyon had the lead, I think maybe we see a different lineup because you don't have to be so defensively consolidated in the midfield area.

49:17Jamie: And I think it's funny because Little and Mariona are suddenly our most offensive pairing, but you play Russo there and then you have Steiner. I do think like this is a game where Frieda can attack that Lyon midfield because that's an attack, that's a very attacking midfield. They don't have a CDM really naturally in this position. Lily Johannes, Lindsay Heaps are constantly rotating that midfield area. Like they're really, really dynamic. So I do think in that respect, there's a lot of room for Frieda to play this game because she's very good at finding the space. She's very good at pressing forward.

49:46Jamie: And depending on who the striker is, I think that there's a good dynamic there to be exploited, but we were chasing the tie. So Russo, I think, needs to be your 10 in this regard. I think that Frieda's a physical player. I think she's attacking physical. I don't think she's a defensively physical player, and I do think we kind of lose a lot when she's in the 10 and we're trying to defend. So I can understand from Slagers in this game, you're ahead, you need to preserve the lead. Russo is unfortunately our best 10 to play and keep the ball and be able to, yeah, just not concede. Obviously, that doesn't happen and Russo looks really exhausted in this fixture, but I think that, yeah, I don't think Frieda actually offers that much defensively with her physicality as opposed to attacking.

50:26Jamie: So I guess what I'm trying to say is in a different situation where this tie is a bit different, we saw what Frieda did against Lyon last year. I think there's a lot of room for that because they play a very forward-moving midfield. They don't have a lot of consolidation, but I think that Rene did what I would have done. Like you need to have to have a lockdown midfield. yeah I I'm with you I kind of given how the game panned out if I could go back I'd give it a try and not least because not a lot else really that Arsenal could have changed and also it keeps Steiner back as a as as an actual plan b from the bench which I don't think we massively had in this game to be honest um and I think back I realize it's different and it was a while ago but Frida's performance when we won 5-1 at Lyon.

51:16She was absolutely amazing for a lot of the reasons you point out in terms of the way that they don't really have a natural six. But if I could rewind, yeah, I'd probably give that a try. But I do also understand why we started Steiner because, you know, Engen and Ren are, they do give you space in behind. And I think there were times in the first half we could have used that better. again like in the press box at leon it's really high up it's like back of the third tier and so you get that tactical cam view which can sometimes be quite deceiving because you see all the space and actually you realize you're just like in a you've got a view like you're watching the game in a blimp um and so it makes it look more spacious than it is but yeah i i can see why we we started with steiner i i thought we'd do that i kind of wanted us to do that but yeah if I could have it back.

52:11Why not give Frida a pop in there? Do you have a question?

52:16Jamie: Yeah, following in on this topic, this is from Madeline Key. Steena has been more than worthy of starting games, especially big games this season. However, when she starts, we lose our plan B. If the plan is for her to start, what do we do instead? Yeah, this is where the loss of Beth and Chloe is really felt because those are your other two attacking changes and we didn't have Beth for either leg. I thought she was a real miss across these two games, like the problem she can give teams when she comes infield. For example, her defensive work is always absolutely top-notch. She has some threat as well.

52:55She's very experienced in these fixtures. I thought that was a big miss, not to at least have as an option on the bench in kind of both legs. And yeah, Chloe as well, big miss really. we get her for eight minutes and they weren't eight good minutes really so i rue that a little bit and and this is just back to the depth question again isn't it is it really for me you know we lost a couple of wingers and that's kind of unfortunate but for me the the depth thing is probably more about the number 10 position where you know we're playing russo there and then we bring Frieda on but she's out of form and we bought Mariana but we started playing her deeper and we bought Rosa Kafadji but that didn't really work so we sent her out on loan it really felt like that number 10 position to me just has felt like it's been going on for years like since players like Daniela Vanderdonk and Jordan Nobbs left and you know we started playing Viv there like no one's really nailed it and so we kind of make do in that position either by moving someone else there or perhaps just playing someone who's not playing that well and yeah I'll be really interested to see how that shakes out in the next couple of seasons because I do think one more one more like attacking player um and and i think it's the 10 really where i look at or just having azimang in the squad next season and just adding her to what we have and just saying yeah we're gonna have three center forwards like and if russo is going to be a 10 sometimes then we need another center forward and you know kind of why not um that was your question wasn't it

54:47Jamie: yeah can I just say I think we have a pretty good Spanish uh attacking midfielder sitting in the double pivot right now and I think the way that we the Arsenal diagnosed their problems and I completely agree like the issue here isn't the Steiner thing like I think like she has to start granted like you have two great center forwards playing like she shouldn't be your only plan be I think Chloe Kelly is a great player to come on and change a game I think Beth Mead's a starting player so like there's a lot of like uh hypotheticals here I agree a 10 comes on and changes that game like yesterday watching City I thought they were pretty bad without Miedema in the 10 but then they leave like Grace Clinton, Iman Benny, Laura Blinkielder Brown unused subs Mary Fowler comes on with 10 minutes to go like the depth is just there and these are really good midfielders I agree but I also think maybe we need a CDM because Mariona is one of the best attacking players in the world and it's like what what is the problem I think that's hard with Arsenal it feels like oh we're losing a plan b with our strikers because our wingers are not available but then our wingers maybe aren't the problem because our 10s aren't there but then maybe it's because we're playing someone out of position so I don't know I think that's up for the like tactical side of the Arsenal team to kind of figure out who they need in but I agree there needs to be an elite 10 however I also think we need depth in CDM yeah the the too long don't read part of this is like we just need another player I think we just whether whether it's a 10 or, you know, like we'll need four wide players, whatever.

56:13If it's another striker, if it's another 10, if it's another deeper player so we can push Mariano on, like I don't know, but it just feels like we're missing a player there and we're moving pieces around a little bit. And, you know, there's that old analogy about like the duvet that's not quite big enough. And do you want cold feet or do you want your chest to be cold? You know, it's just like, it feels a little bit like that. And on that theme, this question from athouse157, if you think about, and this is perhaps moving the conversation on as we contemplate, hopefully, next season's Champions League.

56:50If you think about yesterday's game, but with the likes of Stamway, Reuteler and Honour as available options compared to the options we had, do you think that adds the necessary margins to take the campaign a step further? obviously I think you have to throw into that question the players were likely to lose as well on top of that but that's three players we pretty much know are coming this summer so you know let's say this time next year we play Leon again like and we'll need and whoever else goes like will need to be replaced and stuff like that but is that pushing the needle do you think to really go toe-to-toe with Leon when it comes to throwing subs on with 20 minutes to go?

57:36Jamie: Yeah, I think it definitely pushes the needle, 100%. I think you get a scenario in the last 10 minutes where On About Yeh is a player that she's a pure athlete, she can run out 90 minutes. You don't have to make those full-back changes. You can make winger attacking changes. You don't have to sub out the full-backs. Katie McCabe doesn't have to come off. You play On About Yeh instead of Katie McCabe and she can probably run out the full 90 minutes. The other thing is I just think Georgia Stanway is one of the best midfielders in the world. I think the issue with Georgia Stanway at Arsenal is that, again, she's a midfielder without a profile.

58:07Jamie: So it's kind of like where Renee wants her to fit, she can probably fit. But I do think, again, this is a player that will raise the level of the midfield. She raises the level of every team that she's in. Someone like Geraldine Reutelart I think is actually the most interesting point in this kind of situation because obviously we're going to lose a winger. I think that this is a player that is a 10, but she can also be a CDM and she can also be a winger. And again, I think that when you look at these three signings that are allegedly coming in, they're all like players without profiles but not in a negative way, like very versatile players.

58:40Jamie: Ona can play both flanks. Obviously, Georgia can play anywhere. And then, yeah, Geraldine Reuteler can play three positions across the board. And we saw what she did at the Euros for Switzerland. She's a moments player. And I don't think that part of her game is maybe valued enough because she's so versatile, but she is a big moments player. She's a split open the game with 10 minutes to go when nothing's been happening. She's the player that's going to just kind of pull something out, but she's still got a really good tank. And I think the fitness of these players coming in is really important to the Arsenal team because we looked gassed yesterday.

59:10Jamie: Like we looked absolutely gassed. So I do think it pushes the needle, but then you look at the outcomings. Honor for McCabe, allegedly. Geraldine Roitula will save for Beth Mead and or a midfielder. I mean, Plova. But then Stanway for Plova. So it feels like we're going to be underused again. Like the needle is kind of falling back again. Do we have even less players than we're supposed to have? So I wouldn't say that like in a perfect world we have them all yesterday, of course, but that's not how it's going to work. So next season I think a big point of comparison is the age profile of these players, the tank.

59:41Jamie: They're athletic footballers, especially Batye and Roistler, which is going to bring I think a dimension to Arsenal that we do lack and I think that's what Emily Fox really excels at. She brings that like the tank and she can just keep going and going and Russo does the same. So I think that's going to push the needle a lot and that's something we've definitely lacked and something we definitely lacked against Leon even from the players coming on like pullover and Kelly by the end I still think looked just as tired as the rest of the players that started the game so yeah I think that that's the profile but at the same time Tim I still think there's gaps like what are we going to do with the the double pivot like Kim Little is not a golden a golden person that is never going to stop playing football like are we are we going to go Stanway and Mariona in two years time like what's the what's the solution I I still think we're missing an extra midfielder, a center back.

1:00:25Jamie: Like, I don't think they were great, but at the same time, we do have Steph Catley. We need another one, I think, just as like a backup. It's hard to find those players. Katie Reid is going to be fit, which is very exciting eventually because she was the preferred backup to Williamson. Like, let's not forget that in the first game against West Ham. It wasn't Lotto, it was Katie Reid. So I guess what I'm saying is, yes, I think it will improve the squad 100%, but I also think there's still some other issues that need to be addressed in the losses that we might face. yeah I'm excited about the midfield because it has just been all season Mariana and Kim and like no and Kyra just before Christmas kind of came into that equation and we saw Mariana higher up I think what we'll see you know the point you've made there about the versatility of the players who are as you say almost like without profile completely elastic profiles and I think I suspect what Rene wants to move towards is we can do different things when we need to so sometimes we can have Stanway as a six and we can have like Reuteler and Mariana ahead of her or sometimes we can be a bit more circumspect and pull Reuteler back or you know imagine what we could have done just with a couple of quite versatile midfielders yesterday let's say Reuteler was on the bench you could throw her on in any three of the midfield positions or even one of the wide positions and you know and you can rotate that kind of that around a little bit and you can play with two sixes and a 10 and I think that that's what Rene wants to move towards rather than it's Brighton in the FA Cup we've just done two legs against Chelsea but Mariana and Kim can you roll out the hits one more time type thing I don't think that's the situation Rene wants but obviously in the attack there's you know there's there's going to be some turnover there I'd love us to just add Azimang to it to be honest although maybe because she kind of lost this season maybe she should go back out and loan and really you know but I'd just love to us to add an extra attacker and then obviously just replace well the players that we're going to we're going to lose I kind of feel like a centre back and another forward.

1:02:43And I think our squad starts to, I think we're like too short basically. And I feel like those kind of players and then everywhere else just replacing whoever leaves. Do you have a question?

1:02:56Jamie: Yeah, this one is similar. It's from at SleepyWR. On paper, do we lack a little bit of quality in attack compared to the best teams? And is there any chance we'll go big in this area? This person then says like our rumored transfers are more of a win now variety. If we're also looking for a winger, should we be targeting players in the same category or more for the future? I guess like Tim, the first part, do we lack a bit of quality in tack? What's your take on that? Also maybe considering the recent like stat that Renee is like the second fastest manager to hit 100 goals in the WSL. So we're scoring.

1:03:30Jamie: But I guess the key word in this is quality. What do you think? I think we lack quantity. like there isn't personally there isn't an attacker or an attacking player i'm unhappy with yeah um i'd like to see freedom morning playing better than she has been but like i don't look at any of them really as bad players you know one or two of them are going to go anyway um so i i've listen i'd always be happy with more quality i wouldn't say no no no no no like no more quality please um get that away from me like but but really i just feel like we need one more good player in there in terms of the like the age profile i mean we signed olivia smith who's younger obviously we've got smiller holmberg who's younger like those outside players those wide players i think you can sign younger players there because let me tell you it's not a coincidence that on a Reuteler and Stanway are all 27 years old and Chloe Kelly was 27 years old when we signed her.

1:04:36One of the conversations I think women's football is not ready for at the moment. Sorry, there's no pathway for young players at big clubs unless they are utterly exceptional. There's no pathway because it's a 22-game league and you draw two games like we did in November and you're out the title race. and you play Lyon in the Champions League semi-final, you can't be playing 18 and 19-year-olds in those games. You just can't. There aren't enough games in women's football yet for an elite club to develop anything other than bona fide. This player is already unusually amazing for their age. But on the periphery of the team, you can do that more.

1:05:22So Olivia Smith and Smilla Holmberg, they've been younger. So I wouldn't be surprised if we bring in a couple of attackers, if one of them is more at the Olivia Smith age range, if that makes sense. What do you reckon on that?

1:05:37Jamie: Could not agree more. I think the quantity is fair. I think that's a fair assumption. I think the quality is we've got some fantastic players. I still think the ability for the club to keep someone like Stena Blacksinius despite having less Sir Russo. And I think the quality of those players is there. I do agree from an angle of it, though. that there is like when games are fizzing out and we need something, we struggle with the injection of attackers. I don't think we have that kind of player other than Olivia Smith, but she's a knockdown starter. Like she's starting every game now, so she can't always be that player.

1:06:08Jamie: I think that there is a quality of an edge of a player that's going to kind of drag you out of the mud off the bench, but that's so hard to find. Like there are very little players that can do that. I completely agree with what you're saying about women's football and how we're not at that level yet. And I think that that's just an omission that we have to make. Like if you look at Chelsea, they've bought a lot of players over the last couple of years that they've like immediately sold. Like Mpame that went to Brighton is a big one. Jean-Francois is a big one. Like this just happens in the women's game.

1:06:39Jamie: Like you kind of have to prioritise the players that are ready-made. And I think there will be a progression for that, but I agree. Yeah, I think that we do lack an edge, but I also think we have scored so many goals this season. Like we've scored 49 goals since the turn of the year. I think Chelsea have scored like 30, 32 or something. Granted, that's in a few less fixtures because we had the FIFA Champions World Cup. I just think like we have a really good attacking output right now but in big tight games, I think we struggle with the match winners and that's maybe the area I'm the most, yeah, most little bit hesitant about I would say as opposed to concerned.

1:07:16yeah um why don't we end on this one um and it's kind of in like i've kind of said what i think about this one um mainly but i'll sum it up in a bullet point um at lucy 566 asks could you give your list of signings you think we need in the summer um you know you can include the three main rumored ones um if you want let's like leave them to one side um what positions how many per position. Are there any names you think we should try for in those positions? Some of Lyon's individual quality really showed what we need to improve. Well, I'd love another left centre-back to really fix that down long-term.

1:07:57Obviously, another wide player because Beth's going to go. Most likely, I'd love to throw another attacker in there. I'm all right with the midfield perhaps if we could get like a young midfield player um you know just as a just as a little bit of kind of strengthening i i think the club wouldn't mind doing that off the back of stanway and roy to learn mate you know maybe like a a marling good regen um or something like that or or katherine cool um because both those signings went so well um so what what do you reckon other than the three we kind of already know are coming where are the where are the like the the places you'd love to see addressed the most yeah left hand back certainly I think we

1:08:49Jamie: really lack that when when Catley's injured she's also 32 so you're gonna have to kind of play around with that a little bit more um I another winger like another really like good winger not just someone that's going to make up the numbers I think we really really need that um it's interesting how I feel about the midfield because I really do, I'm a strong believer in the fact that we have a world class like 10 sitting in the pivot right now. I also think that we have a really, really good like player that can play in a pivot and that's Kyra Cooney Cross. So it's hard. It's hard to kind of address that because obviously we don't know where she's going to be.

1:09:20Jamie: So she ideally is the player, but I also think we need someone in the pivot. And I think with maybe there's going to be a little bit of regret in this pivot in the last kind of closing weeks of the season is, do you lose a lot in attack by not having Mariona higher up the pitch? And is that a player that like, is that an area that we need to consolidate? Maybe because does Kyra and Kim work? We don't really know. We've not seen it a lot. So yeah, I think, yeah, maybe address that double pivot, address the fact that Kim is certainly not got another 10 years left in her, although sometimes it seems like she does.

1:09:50Jamie: So I think maybe just some, yeah, some future planning for that area. Maybe not immediate signing, but like some really like future planning. And then also a left centre-back and a good winger, like a really good winger, not just someone that's going to play and come on in the 80th minute and maybe make a difference, like a really good winger. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think I'd be happy with the full backs like Fox, Holmberg, Hines, Barche. Yeah, I'm happy with the goalkeepers. Centre backs, happy with all the ones we've got, but yeah, would like to bring another one in. midfield's a bit of a carousel.

1:10:31I'm with you on the wide player as well. I'd like that to be another Olivia Smith-style kind of marquee signing. I think we're going to have to do that because we're going to be losing a really great winger who we've had for nearly 10 years. So most likely we are anyway. So yeah, there's some work to do, but it's a non-tournament summer this summer, um i think for certainly europe asia had the asia cup wafcon when is that happening now because that

1:11:03Jamie: got it got pushed back but there was the awkward situation where there was two wafcons really close to each other yeah yeah i'm actually not sure is if there's been a date yeah yeah yeah i don't think that affects any of our current players anyway but like in terms of the market um yeah Yeah, I mean, it's going to be a reasonably quiet summer in that respect, which means because the market kind of ebbs and flows a little bit and what you find in tournament summers is it dies during, well, announced deals die like during the while the tournament's going on. It's not a coincidence, you know, the three players everyone knows about because they're all free contracts and they're all coming from abroad.

1:11:44So you can get those done like in the spring, Whereas anything that requires a fee, that always happens later in the summer. You always get the free transfers first, the fees second. So yeah, it'll be really interesting. But I think the first phase really is kind of done and has been for a while. So we'll see what the second wave brings. As we plot our path to the 2027 Champions League, unfortunately not going to be in the FIFA Champions Cup, which was hosted in Miami. I'd have loved a week in Miami in January, but unfortunately that's not going to happen now. But Jamie, should we leave it there?

1:12:26Jamie: We should leave it there, Tim. We should leave it there. Yeah, let's leave it there. This has been a long one. Obviously, we've got Brighton away on Wednesday night. We'll do another podcast after the Aston Villa game at the weekend at Villa Park. Whether we record that on Sunday night or Monday, I'm not sure yet, but we'll have a podcast for you after that. So hopefully everyone caught both our exclusive interview, Lota Wubham Moy, although that's dated a bit now because a lot of that was about the Leon game. And we had an exclusive interview on our YouTube channel with Leah Williamson when she signed her new contract the other week.

1:13:03So if you haven't caught that, you should. That hasn't dated quite as much. It goes into stuff a little bit more long-term. Those of you that did listen and watch those, I hope you enjoyed them. and yeah we'll be back next week after Arsenal beat Brighton and Aston Villa because they always do they never have any problems with those teams so until then thanks for listening and we will speak to you again very soon

1:14:06Jamie: I'll see you next time.

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