Arsenal Women Arsecast Episode 166: Thriller at the Villa

0:00Jamie: Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Avnos, senior sports editor from The Guardian. Whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. From one of the fastest-growing soccer newsrooms, The Guardian brings you in-depth World Cup coverage that gets into the winners and losers on and off the pitch. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, a global perspective, and a squad of Americans, including me, on the ground with the U.S.

0:32Jamie: national team. Plus, if you want to test your soccer knowledge, try On The Ball. It's a game in the Guardian app, and it's really, really fun. And if you're into stuff like this... Well, I think the problem is if you give footballers an inch, they will take a mile. Is it too much when it's this close? It's a bit much. It's a bit too real. Maybe you could just talk with a slight delay. Be sure to listen to our Football Weekly podcast for on-the-move expert analysis. The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more.

1:14hello and welcome to the arsenal women ask cast and ask blog.com with me your host tim stillman looking back at saturday's 3-0 win at villa park in the sunshine full away end lovely lovely stuff Lovely, relaxed game. Big contrast to Sunday when I was at the London Stadium for the men's game, which was decidedly more tense and, to be honest, had higher stakes as well. So it feels a bit strange, actually, having already done a podcast about that game to now switch back into the mode of talking about Saturday's game. but that's what we're going to do. And obviously we'll talk about some of the news and the announcements of player departures besides.

1:58And to do that, as ever, is our co-host Jamie Spanger. Jamie, how are you doing?

2:04Jamie: Hi, Tim. It's an emotional morning or evening for you. A lot of big news coming out of today. It kind of, the performance was really good on the weekend and that was a positive, but obviously we know it's dragging on to the end of the season. Manchester City won the league. So it felt like, it feels like a bit of a weird period, But, Tim, I'm emotional personally, and I'm sure we'll certainly get onto that. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So I was certainly expecting, and if you look across the WSL, all clubs do this, right? So, you know, they'll announce their departures ahead of their last home game.

2:37Villa did it as well, so they did like a little goodbye on the pitch to Sabrina D 'Angelo, Gabby Nunez, and Lucy Staniforth, who's retiring. Lucy played against Arsenal in the 2009 FA Cup final. with Sunderland and her teammates that day, Lucy Bronze, Jordan Nobbs, Steph Horton, all started beside her. It's a bit of a reminder into Sunderland's kind of heritage. But, yeah, I was expecting some departure announcements ahead of the final home game on Wednesday. I have to be honest, I didn't know about the Laia Kadina one and when that came through with the contract expiry, I didn't think her contract expiring.

3:19him but my understanding is that there's there was a plus one or sorry an option for a year there that's not been triggered because obviously next year's a world cup year and she wants to go and play which I think makes sense for everyone then we had Victoria Pilova departure announcement I think everyone was expecting that and I think everyone was I don't know if expecting is the right word but anticipating that we'd get a Beth Mead departure announcement whether that came on monday or tuesday it came on monday afternoon and i think we have to start there jamie because this player has has played for arsenal for over nine years um you know and has been one of and at times the main player i think in this team i think there have been times where this whole team has been built around her and someone who as a footballer is a star as a person um no star behavior there whatsoever your feelings on kind of beth me leaving the club this summer

4:24Jamie: yeah this is this is the end of like such a such a big era of like modern arsenal women and also like the the arsenal women that built up into this point and i think that's where a couple of these players in this squad belong is they're not just part of the Champions League historic winning group, but they're also part of the group that was forming as women's football was really like reaching new heights. And Beth Mead was at the center of that. And I think when you think of Beth Mead, it's no matter where she goes, no matter what she does to finish off her career, she's going to finish her career as an Arsenal legend.

4:55Jamie: And that will be what she's remembered for. But at the same time, she's remembered for, so responsible for what happened at Euro 2022 as well and the boom of women's football in England and I think yeah this is just a player that has done so much for the women's game and brought so many eyes to the women's game and just given fans a lot to cheer about for both England and Arsenal for the last nine ten years of her career and obviously she was at Sunderland before and she was she was a known ear within women's football when she was at Sunderland as well and now obviously what she's done at Arsenal is incredible I'm so glad she got the Champions League so glad she got that assist in the Champions League Like maybe I'll be angry at Dario Videsic for the rest of my life because she couldn't win the FA Cup with Arsenal.

5:34Jamie: But, yeah, this is a player that's just come and she's done it all and she's done it all with just so much personality and so much for the fans to be excited about. It was inevitable, like, Tim. But I think the best reason this departure is, like, it just feels like it doesn't hurt. It just feels like it's an end of an era, but it's because it's respectable terms. Both parties agreed. Like she's given all that she can to this club. I think like I messaged one of my friends, Tom last night, Tom Maher, and I was like, if I can survive Jordan Nobbs, I can survive this one. But it does feel a bit different because it feels like Beth gave everything that she could to Arsenal and it is just the end of a really, really good chapter.

6:11Jamie: So, yeah, I wish her well. I really don't hope that she's scoring against us next season. But yeah, a fantastic player and a club legend forever. Yeah, very well said. I wrote a piece about her on Ask Blog News, which went up on Monday as well. to repeat what we said on last week's show, information-wise, fully expecting her to go to Manchester City. I do believe Arsenal offered her a contract, but Manchester City have offered her a longer one. I think we can all understand there are several good reasons for her to go to Manchester City really as well. And I think she should go with everyone's kind of best wishes as well.

6:51and Catherine Batty in The Telegraph reporting that there's been a bit of a U-turn on Katie McCabe's situation contractually and Catherine has the same information we had, which was basically that Arsenal were kind of prepared to lose one of Beth or Caitlin Ford, but not both. And Beth's departure means that Caitlin Ford will be offered a contract. and I would imagine that Caitlin Ford and Katie McCabe are going to sign new deals. Before we get on to Victoria Polova and Laia Kadina, I think that story, which I'm not that close to the story about Katie from Catherine Batty, how do you feel about that one, about this apparent last-minute U-turn to offer Katie a new deal?

7:40Jamie: Yeah, this is an interesting situation, Tim, and I think one that I didn't expect from both the player and the club. Obviously, we don't know if anything's agreed. Like, I just think if I was a player and you see this, like, interest from another club and your club kind of says, oh, just kidding. Like, I want you now. There is going to be a whole discussion to that as well. Like, there's another layer to those contract discussions. I personally think Renee is the queen of kind of, like, versatile footballers. And she's maybe seen what Katie McCabe could do as a repurposed left-centre-back in the last couple of weeks.

8:09Jamie: And I mean that with, like, actually no humor. Like, I'm being serious. And I think she said, no, this is a player that maybe we can repurpose. And it saves us a lot of headaches when it comes to injuries, because obviously it's also reported that on a bat, yeah, like contract negotiations are still, yeah, they're still increasing. So it's not like we're saying that's fine. Just bring in McCabe, like keep McCabe and leave that to not happen. But I just think Renee said, yeah, this is a really, really versatile player that maybe I can repurpose. It's a Steph Catley 2.0, but maybe a little bit younger and a little bit more longevity.

8:40Jamie: But honestly, like this is a situation I think has so many layers, Tim. And this is a player that I think if she goes to a couple of other really top clubs in the WSL, she has a starting left back position. And maybe that's not going to be the case at Arsenal. So, yeah, I think there's a few things for her to consider. And a lot of clubs can probably get in her ear about a couple of things as well. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I said not that close to the story. There's a couple of things I probably can say. One, I do believe that her playing at centre back has changed the calculus a little bit. so you're right there from what I understand that that that might have changed things I mean what I'd say is I think the decision which obviously you know from the sounds of it isn't a final one but the the kind of decision not to extend her contract I think has been made for quite a while um you know and for me katie mckay staying is a good outcome um but i think it's a bad process i think like changing your mind at the last minute it it doesn't it doesn't feel great to me like i kind of think make your decision and make it you know either way either way and it it does feel a little bit muddled and it's such a small sample size those centre-back kind of performances and it does make me worry a bit because I think that's a position we've got to invest in in the market more long term and I don't you know like Steph Catley's 32 Katie McCabe's 30 having like a couple of repurposed left backs in their in their 30s you know I might prove wrong and Katie might play there and she might be world class and it wouldn't surprise me if she was but it does make me think like surely you've got to go and buy someone for that position who's going to lock it down um for the next few years um so I'm a little bit worried about that as much as I want Katie to stay because I think she's a great footballer um Pilova and Laia Kadina then I mean no real surprises there I think both those players have to move on really for themselves as much as anything else particularly with the World Cup year coming up I mean probably no surprises but any sort of regrets there no no surprises there all make sense I think the Laia Kadena one was yeah probably the writing was on the wall a long time ago especially we're talking about Katie McCabe as the left centre-back uh that that probably gave us the writing on the wall uh Victoria Polova understood yeah she probably doesn't have a role in this midfield anymore and we've said that for a while obviously we don't really know um where Kyra Cooney cross will be wish her well hope that she's she's back playing football and everything's well there soon but she seems like the yeah the successor in that midfield as well um the Plova one team is really just oh that ACL injury like she was she was other than Lottowobin Moyes she was Arsenal's player of the season two years ago so yeah that's a that's a hard hard pill to swallow I would say so but again wish her well no surprises to either of those players but great servants and European champions yeah absolutely put yeah pull over there's there's regrets there I think like a couple of seasons ago she just looked so so good and uh and she just hasn't really been able to do it under Rene for for reasons that are difficult I think to put your finger on and and then at Brighton on Wednesday night you know she in the Brighton goal quite responsible and you just feel like that's that's just a player that needs to move on and go and kickstart their career somewhere else.

12:15And I wouldn't be surprised if that was another WSL club. So the Villa game, we're 11 minutes in. Let's talk Aston Villa. This was a really fun game, Jamie. I was really after the Brighton game on Wednesday, even though the second half was so much better than the first half. I had this kind of, I hope the season doesn't just peter out into these kind of fairly listless performances and we slip into third and it's all a bit of a damp squib. This was a nice day. This was a nice performance. Villa are not playing well. I think they were there for the taking. There's another short turnaround. In terms of the team, Katie McCabe was unavailable owing to a family matter.

12:56So Taylor Hines in there, that's no real problem. Russo starting up front, but Smilla Holmberg starting on the right wing where she started at home to Leicester. I mean, any surprises in that lineup? Arsenal have to rotate a fair bit at the moment because they're finishing with a very packed schedule.

13:15Jamie: Yeah, I wouldn't say there's any surprises. I think get Borba in there, finish off the season, fair enough. I think, yeah, Taylor Hines is probably a player that we'll speak about when we do our end of season review and someone that surprised me a lot. So good to see her get minutes. And then, yeah, I just think my biggest takeaway from the starting XI is that like Chloe Kelly is just nowhere near her fittest. And that's something that I think Arsenal, like it's obviously no fault to the player. But yeah, Arsenal really, really struggled because of that in the last three months. There's been a little rotation in the wing positions.

13:48Jamie: Obviously, it's great that Smilla Holmberg is playing and she started the game fantastically. Like she had a great performance at Villa Park. But yeah, Chloe Kelly still not fit to play Aston Villa with three games left in the season is definitely concerning for the players' fitness. But otherwise, no surprises. A good rotation, but still a good solid lineup. Yeah, I think Chloe Kelly, a bit like Leah Williamson, that's just a write-off of a season really and possibly related to the Euros as well for both of them. And of course, Leah Williamson wasn't available for this game again, had like another kind of muscular niggle.

14:22I tend to think we won't see her again this season and they'll probably just say, forget it, write it off, get on the sunbed now, come back in August and we'll go from there. As you said, Jamie, the first few minutes of this game, for me, are just all about Smilla-Holmberg. And it was clear that the plan was to feed her as often as possible, get that ball out to her as often as possible. And, you know, her deliveries, her crossing, we get a cross, which, you know, we get a couple of crosses in that first few minutes. And that's where the goal comes from. Sabrina D 'Angelo tips a Homburg cross to Russo.

15:05Her header, I mean, deflected in by Noel Maritz. It looked quite own goalie, but I think it's been given to Russo because it was on target. A great start. And I kind of wonder if Villa just didn't know that Smilla-Homburg was coming because particularly in the first 20 minutes, it just felt like every time I looked up, she had the ball and it was one touch and it was, you know, bend it like Beckham into the area.

15:32Jamie: Yeah, this was a suffocating first 10 minutes, to be honest. I thought like Arsenal across the board, the press was so good. Villa were absolutely distraught with it. Like they couldn't play out from the back. There were so many errors being made. I actually thought Sabrina D 'Angelo's second half was fantastic, but her first half by foot was really, really poor. Obviously, they've got a lot of injuries to their back line, like Anna Patton's not playing. That's a really central figure of this Aston Villa defence. you're repurposing Noel Maritz to play more centrally. Obviously, Lynn Wilms is injured.

16:00Jamie: So there's a lot of players from this Aston Villa starting back four that we actually saw at the start of the season be very good. But this is a team now that have really, really lost it. And we saw that this entire game, I thought. They've conceded 46 goals, which is a record high for Aston Villa in the WSL. They're also second last on goals conceded. Like Leicester are the only club that have conceded more. So they're really struggling at the back. And defensively, you could tell. And I think that Arsenal did a really good job at knowing that and knowing that they're very disorganized. You can almost always beat them with a high press and that's exactly what they did.

16:31Jamie: And I actually think Smilla Holmberg and Olivier Smith is actually probably the best partnership for this because they go in and behind and we know how good Holmberg is by foot as well when she's crossing the ball in. So, yeah, these two kind of young and energetic players just rip into them, to be honest. And, yeah, it's a really, really good start from Arsenal, really, really good start from Alessia Russo and Frieda Mornem who are just playing super high as well. So, yeah, strong start. Aston Villa, though, they look terrible. And Arsenal definitely saw the blood in the water and they pounced.

17:00Yeah, Villa have been playing a back three, back five most of the season. They've switched to a back four. And I think it's just because they don't have enough defenders to play a back five. And Mirri Taylor kind of in there. And Arsenal are doing something quite interesting where they weren't pressing Mirri Taylor at all. They were just letting her have the ball. And then as soon as it went to De Londres, then they went and they pressed. But I mean, one of the things that really stuck out after this game, I asked Rene about that kind of Russo-Morning partnership and I asked if they'd been working on it.

17:35And Rene said, no, actually, we don't have enough time at the moment. But she felt that this game was one where they were going to do very little tactical instruction. and she felt that the players were a little bit low after a couple of bad results and she just wanted them to feel the game and enjoy themselves. So she said that that Mourne and Russo partnership was not really worked on and her instructions were kind of, you know, go and ball out and enjoy yourself, which I think is quite a smart piece of management in the circumstances. And then, like you say, it was just Villa were under siege, you know, and at Holmberg Corner as well, She's very good dead ball delivery as well.

18:21And I think Arsenal could do with more of that. And, you know, kind of Russo, Arsenal getting that header on the back post, Russo with the header on the back post and Smith had a shot scrambled away. And then, you know, and then the ball comes back in and Holmberg has a chance. Then Holmberg puts another cross to the back post where Olivia Smith hits a left foot volley, which briefly looks like it's going to loop over D 'Angelo. but the second goal in this game I mean I mean reminiscent of the goal Frida scores against Brighton on Wednesday that's what moved me to ask the question to Rene about how much has this been worked on but at the same time you know I know some people get sniffy about like the Russo hold up play thing but this is like this is just the player who has gone to another level and I'm really glad to see Frida finish the season strongly as well because you know she lost her place a little bit and you know a lot of people think she hasn't had a fantastic season but and this is not a partnership we've really talked about very much either Russo Mornham it's always felt like you know Frida plays better with Steiner but this is just like wonderful football and you know Russo's part in it is just outstanding yeah this is a joke of an assist to be honest

19:50Jamie: because it's not like she's got that much time on the ball Aston Villa have actually done really good to like put her back on her so she's back against the ball but you can't really do a lot with Alessia Russo in that position because she's just she's just going to turn around and the touch is so good. Like she's done so well. She kind of fakes one way, goes the other way. But the through ball from the outside of her foot is just, yeah, this is exactly why she's a world-class player. It's why she's probably Arsenal's most important player consistently this season. Like this is just the footballer that raises our levels.

20:19Jamie: And I think, yeah, we spoke about it last week, I believe, about Frida and maybe her spot in the squad because it does feel a little bit precarious. But she's just a, she's like a 10 that kind of plays as a high centre forward. And I think that this is the game, like you said, that just allowed for that because Aston Villa, their defensive partnership in that midfield, like Lucia Kendall is just too much of an attacking midfielder. Jane Francois is a really good footballer, but she needs help and she doesn't get help in this game. Like Rachel Daly is not presenting up the pitch. So there's a lot of vulnerability in this midfield.

20:51Jamie: And I think that that was just pounced on by Russo and Mournem. And that's the game where Frieda Mournem plays. And I know I was kind of, I'm a big Frieda Mournem fan, but I can also recognize that this season, she's been far off the mark. I do think there's an argument for a lot of that being, is Frida inconsistent and in bad form? Yes, maybe. But at the same time, I just think Russo was also the preferred player for that position on a lot of those occasions. And that worked for Arsenal. And I don't think many fans would change that. So I just think this is a game where these two players and their qualities are really shown.

21:20Jamie: And Frida's qualities are shown because she operates well in space. She operates well when the nine can drop back and get the ball. I just think Russo is a player that unlocks that in her. and I made an Elatoon comparison last week, but this is a goal that we've seen for England, for Manchester United. Russo, like especially for United and Russo's last season, she drops forward. Elatoon plays as that kind of faux nine, makes the run in behind and finishes a great ball through. So I think there's potential for this partnership and it's very opposition dependent, but I think Arsenal need to get to the stage where it is opposition dependent because your squad's so good.

21:52Jamie: And too much this season has it been just play the best players because we need to get results over the line. But I'm just hoping the squad can be built out where Frieda has a role against teams like this because there are teams like this in Europe and there are teams like this in the WSL. So, yeah, really, really good goal. Alessia Russo is magnificent, but I'm happy for Frieda Mornem because, yeah, it's not been a great season for her. yeah Russo this season is it it's one of my favorite things as a fan when you're watching your team and you just watch a player go through the levels and go up another level and really go into that like world-class kind of bracket which I think we've seen Alessia Russo do during her time at Arsenal and this season has been I mean I think when it comes to the player of the season vote without you know wishing to influence or preempt people I think she's going to win it by a mile yeah um to be honest and the more I watch her this season the more I think this is the franchise player you know uh to use an Americanism this is this is the player you build around but not just build around but I do think we've got to take some of the burden off her in terms of she can't be our first choice nine and our first choice 10.

23:09Yes. I don't mind her playing both those positions because she can, but I don't think we can have a situation next season where she has to play every minute of every game in both those positions. But she's just been superb all season. I really think she has. And yeah, that assist was absolutely unreal. and Arsenal continue to kind of pin Villa back. So, you know, Hines has a ball in behind for Olivia Smith that's saved by D 'Angelo. Another Holmberg free kick and Friedem Mornham has a header from close range, which D 'Angelo saves as well. And then, you know, it gets to halftime, 2-0. It's been kind of very free and easy.

23:56Arsenal end this game, I think, with 28 shots and Villa maybe have one, which I think is an ebony salmon header that doesn't really do very much. Villa finished the game with five penalty box touches, which I think Arsenal get like 10 times that. But then in the second half, we get that Frida-Alessia kind of partnership again and this time it's the other way round. Russo rounding the goalkeeper and again just at the moment when she goes through on goal I don't doubt her the other thing I want to say about this goal and about this game Jamie is that one of the things I really like about this game is watching that Russo goal in front of a full away end yeah again this was a midday kickoff you know midweek against Brighton that away end was full midday kickoff not an awful lot riding on the game full away end and you know for the for the league as a whole we are the only club providing this this sort of imagery i know you know i know we're in the kind of war a trophy culture don't get anything for that but like i i do think you know the traveling fans once again just deserve a real mention here because like no no one else is doing that no one else is filling away ends like that and when WSL put together their comps for the season that goal is going to feature just because of what it looks like quite frankly against that kind of backdrop of

25:29Jamie: colour it's just so good it's so good like honestly the away support everything it's every single leg I remember two seasons ago remember that Villa Park game that got delayed because they got stuck on the highway or whatever happened the motorway whatever you guys call it in England on the motorway But still, the away support was so good. That was the goal. That was the game where Steiner did a little spin and then Lotta scored the winner. Like that was a dire, dire night, Sunday night football. And then the weigh-in was great there. So it is growing, but it's always been there. And I just think we've got something so just unique at Arsenal with the travelling support and also the home support, but especially the travelling support.

26:08Jamie: Even in Lyon, when they've been exiled to the top of the group arm, you can still hear them. So, yeah, it's just amazing. And I think a lot of clubs maybe need to look at this and say, how can we replicate it? But at the same time, I don't think you can just build the culture that Arsenal have. And that comes from being a club that's always been active in women's football and always been a pioneer for women's football. But I still don't know if there's something that we can diagnose to say this is the reason why Arsenal have gone 10 years without a WSL trophy and still have the biggest support.

26:39Jamie: It's amazing. Loyalty. Never, ever doubt an Arsenal women's fans' loyalty, that's for sure. But yeah, fantastic again, guys. And you should all be very proud and another fantastic season on the road. Yeah, absolutely. And let me say very confidently, this is a valuable recruitment tool for the club as well. Because players that Arsenal are interested in, they see this stuff and it's a USP. It really, really is. Obviously, the money will always be more important than anything. And, you know, silverware and all of that. This is significant though. And you look at some of the size and the quality of the names that we pretty much know we're going to sign this summer and hopefully there'll be more to come as well.

27:28But a lot of that is because we have something unique at Arsenal. It's a very valuable recruitment tool. The game obviously kind of peters out a little bit, could score more. Libya Smith has a good chance. We caused some problems from set pieces. um in this game i think and um you know chris bradley going out with a bang uh because he's going to leave at the end of the season but you know finishing with a midfield double pivot of palova and freedom ornam with beth mead as a number 10 ahead of them something i asked renee the day before the game in the pre-match press conference was like do you think the squad just needs to be a little bit bigger next season and she kind of she kind of danced around it but i think she was kind of saying yes but obviously there is a balance it can't be too big which I understand there is a sweet spot in squad sizes but it was nice to be able to finish with that

28:27Jamie: with a midfield like that anyway I think that's fan service because personally I loved it it was very enjoyable that sums up this game though for Arsenal and for Aston Villa like being able to do that play no defensive midfield players and just know that you will not be ran through by Aston Villa they were really bad like I don't even think it was like complete control like Arsenal didn't look like they were playing prime Barcelona football it just like Aston Villa were really bad I think there are a lot of good moments and Arsenal did play really well and they did well to capitalize on the opposition one of the chances I think around the 30th minute in the first half once Miller-Holmberg sends it over the goalpost that was just brilliant football every player on the pitch almost touches it so I do think it's just it's a great performance but at the same time Aston Villa were just bad.

29:10Jamie: And this is the issue that they have. They either start the season really well and they finish it poorly or they start the season poorly and only decide to play football at the end. And, yeah, this is a club I think that's lacking a little bit of direction and identity. I don't really know where they're going. I don't really know what kind of football they want to play. Their recruitment doesn't make a lot of sense to me. They've got a lot of top-age players. Sounds a bit familiar, but without a European trophy. But, yeah, another poor performance from Aston Villa. They've lost, I think, they've won one game in the last 10 against Leicester City.

29:39And that's Leicester, yeah.

29:40Jamie: Yeah, shocking, shocking performance. But capitalised on it, and often we don't. So I'm very happy with the three points, and at least we can hopefully finish the season with a positive mindset. Yeah, yeah, they were nice opponents for us. Where they weren't in October at the Emirates, they were nice opponents for us this time. I think they're just a team who wants the season to end with all the injuries and stuff. They got Brian Sorensen in as a kind of technical director, the former Everton manager. Did see Nathalie Arroyo talking at length with Laia Kadina and Mariana before the game because, you know, Catalan connection.

30:19I do think about that now, actually. She's talking to Laia Kadina for quite a long time before the game.

30:24Jamie: They love an Arsenal defender, Arsenal Villa. They love one. I wouldn't be surprised if that's their recruitment strategy. it yeah um yeah so i i do think those three have have a link somewhere they're certainly talking for a very long time anyway so um if mariana signs for aston villa next season um you'll know where that started um that will do i think um for part one and uh in part two we will come back with your questions submitted as ever on blue sky right after this

31:22Jamie: We'll be right back. weekly podcast. The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more. Do you keep hearing podcast ads like this one, for example, but always wonder how you actually get involved with them for your own brand or organization? Well, it's easier than you think. We're Acast, and we give you the platform to do it all yourself. Browse thousands of popular podcasts, choose the shows that match your perfect audience, set your budget, and launch. And if you want a hand, our podcast specialists are there to help you launch with confidence. This is podcast advertising without barriers.

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32:07Okay, welcome back to the Arsenal Women Ask Cast on askblog.com with Tim Stillman and Jamie Spang looking back at Saturday's 3-0 win at Aston Villa. Arsenal now need, well, given their goal difference they really need four points from their last two games to guarantee second place unless Chelsea beat Manchester United about 10-0 on the final day which to be honest given the way Manchester United are finishing the season kind of feels like it could happen to be quite honest but yeah home to Everton on Wednesday night where there will be some terrible goodbyes to some players and then away at Liverpool on Saturday at Anfield.

32:51And if Arsenal win both of those, they're definitely guaranteed second place. And second place gets you directly into the group phase, no qualifiers. The team that finishes third will have to go through the qualifiers, but obviously there's no summer tournament, international tournament this year. So it's probably not the worst year to go into a qualifier anyway. But let's get into some questions. Jamie and the first one that we're going to go for has been submitted by at house 517 who incidentally had a drink with after the West Ham game on Sunday I recall you saying something after the Champions League win about how it felt more like the end of something than the beginning and given the news of the departures of this week I wanted to let you kind of reiterate elaborate on that point for fans to reflect on the era we had with some long-standing players so it's one for both of us really but I mean yeah that we've said that a lot haven't we that that Champions League felt like and unfortunately it has really proved to be I think the last thing um for this group I mean there are perhaps going to be slightly more players staying than than maybe we thought but But I guess how do you reflect on some of that legacy, I think?

34:19Because we have also talked about domestically maybe some under-delivery in this time with this group as well.

34:27Jamie: This last 10 years has been very interesting for Arsenal because I think you've got the most memorable players because of just the way that the trajectory of women's football has led. but domestically there has been underperformance which it almost doesn't feel the case because of when you're watching a team closely every week you can see how good a player is and I think you can't go and convince a Chelsea fan that Beth Mead is like one of the most important players the WSL has ever seen because they're not going to agree with that and it's like how maybe I, no, this is a bad example but using someone like Fran Kirby, we can all agree that but you're not seeing her day in, day out so that the effect of it doesn't hit the league as much as it hits the fan base And I think that's the situation we have at Arsenal where there's these players that have done so much for the club.

35:08Jamie: And we've seen it. Like if Katie McCabe leaves the club, obviously she won the Champions League and she's won all there is to win. But I'll remember her from the end of the 2022-23 campaign where she essentially dragged Arsenal into Champions League qualification. And those are the kind of moments that I think outsiders don't see. And they don't think of this player as a club legend because of those acts. And I think you've got so many of those cases and those kind of players in the last 10 years of Arsenal. Like I mentioned Jordan Nobbs before. Like it's a conversation we don't actually speak about Viviana Miedema that much because she's so active in the WSL still.

35:42Jamie: Like it doesn't feel like it's a big end of an era because she had so much of her career left to go. But there's a lot of players in this. And I think a lot of people would have hoped that Viv was there for the Champions League trophy. Jordan Nobbs, players like that, that got Arsenal to where they are and they are club legends. And I think we're in a unique situation with how professional the women's game is now that players have stayed at the club longer. They haven't needed to go elsewhere or there isn't as much high turnover like there was with previous club legends that have been at multiple clubs, maybe retired in the championship and were forgetting about them.

36:12Jamie: So, yeah, I think this is an interesting stage for women's football as a whole. And I think we'll see it across the board, but especially with Arsenal, just because of the longevity of the club and how professional it's been for so long. So yeah, Tim, it feels like it's an end of an era because it is an end of an era and it's not just silverware, but it's like you've seen these players, you've seen them go through personal things like quite publicly. You've seen like a lot of struggles from the club, trying to, all the comeback stories, manager sacking. So it does feel like an end of an era, but at the same time, it's a necessary one because it doesn't feel like it's been this maintained success and we're finally like coming to the end of it and we need to refresh because we're losing our success.

36:48Jamie: maybe like Chelsea feel a little bit right now. It just feels necessary. We can't do fan service anymore and these players have been so great. But this summer for me is a refresh button and I really hope it's a refresh button for the club because now it has to be. You've won the Champions League. Obviously, there was a goal to go back-to-back this season. That wasn't reach. It has to be about the WSL next year. You've got a unique situation now where Chelsea and City are both in the Champions League as well. You can't use that excuse of your rivals playing less fixtures. So, yeah, I just think this is a refreshed summer in the way that we're saying goodbye to a lot of club legends, but it's necessary because I think the way we love players maybe kind of band-aids the fact that there has been a domestic underperformance.

37:29Jamie: And, yeah, it's definitely time to fix that. Yeah, there's a couple of ways I view this. One is that players leaving is part of football, you know, and that often involves some painful departures sometimes in club legends. And, you know, I've been watching the men's and the women's team over several decades now. And like, I've seen it. I've seen us lose Kelly Smith like three times, basically. I've seen like Faye White retire. I've seen Marianne Spacey go. I've seen Rachel Yankee retire like Jordan, you know, big players like that. Daniela van der Donk, you know, all these kind of really, really big players, Jen Beattie as well, and Alex Scott.

38:18And it's part of it. It's just part of football. And so I think like the older you get and the more you see it happen, the more kind of chill you are about it a little bit while understanding and hopefully placing correctly the legacy of some of those players who are going. um so so i'll always be i think more relaxed about players leaving um just because i've just seen it countless times i think the other thing i kind of hope as well i i completely understand and even endorse the feeling in the fan base that this this does have to change like you know i've seen you know people saying like i i just want to fail in a different way if nothing else and i i I completely get that.

39:07I think that's completely natural. And like I say, I even endorse that really. But at the same time, I hope that doesn't cause us to, you know, disrespect is too strong a word, but I hope that doesn't stop us from kind of really understanding and appreciating what some of these players have given. And someone like Beth in particular, who for me, whether she's a player that catches your eye or not, or her style or whatever, has just given absolutely everything for years and years and years, has given every bloody thing. And I really hope she gets her flowers on Wednesday night. I think she will.

39:47I think certainly with the match-going fans, incredibly popular, someone who's always made so much time for fans. So I guess what I'm saying is I hope we can balance the quite correct and understandable desire I see out there for a refresh. And that also speaks to me about the kind of the commitment and the intelligence of the fan base as well, because I'm not seeing a lot of like, I want to keep this player because I like them. You know, I'm seeing a lot of kind of, but I want what's best for the team as well. And yeah, and I think that's right. But I hope that we keep in perspective what some of these players have given us.

40:31Do you have a question?

40:33Jamie: I do. On that kind of note, this is from at NDMW. Given Meade's versatility and evolution of her playing style post-ACL, what do you believe to be the key on-pitch characteristics that will need replacing to fill her role in the squad? And or is this an opportunity to instead bring in a very different wide forward profile to switch up the attack? Yeah, one of the things I really like about Beth is I think she's just such a multifaceted player. I remember her coming through as this penalty box striker who was better than a goal a game at Sunderland. And then she became a right winger. And if you look at her creative stats, like assists, dribbles, penalty box entries, through ball, all of the creative stats are just the highest quality over many, many years.

41:20She completely rewired who she was as a player. And I think within that, she's had different evolutions as well. So under Jonas Eideval, I think Jonas Eideval's football suited her so much where it's like, we're going to have a real focus on intensity and pressing from the front. And that's when the team became about Beth Mead. I think it's kind of, it's interesting given they're literally in a relationship. but I think at one point this team kind of handed over from Viv to Beth in terms of who personified the team like under Joe Viv did and then Jonas came in and I think Beth really did but then I think we've seen another evolution in her under Renee which is is completely exemplified by her assist in the Champions League final I think she's become like a I don't know if calm is the word but you know like a bit more of a kind of a bit more of a creative player in the sense in the true sense of the word and maybe less of a i'm gonna run a thousand miles an hour my full-back type player the biggest thing we'll have to replace is her output basically because she's been guaranteeing goals and assists for many many years and that that's for me that's what we're We're not going to get another Beth Mead because I don't think there is one.

42:45But replacing that output, I think, is going to be a big, big part of it. What do you think?

42:51Jamie: Yeah, 100%. I think what you said about kind of her repurposing her game post ACL and becoming, it's almost like creative. Yeah, it's almost like a playmaker in the buildup. She plays a big role in the buildup to almost every single Arsenal goal. And I also speak about her defensive capabilities. but she's become less of a like, I'll do it myself player. And I think that just comes with maturity and age when you, when you look at an attacking winger as well. And that's something a lot of wingers turn out to be. I still think she has a lot to give the WSO and I think she has a lot of impact to give this league for if she does end up at Manchester city, it will be interesting to see the role she plays as well under Andre Egwurts.

43:30Jamie: But I think this is a player that Arsenal can look at it two ways. Like, do you want to recreate what Beth Mead gave to this squad? Because Renee, like the number one thing on Renee's list, when it comes to wingers, you can see the way she kind of changed Smith when she arrived was you need to drop back and you need to defend. The same thing happened with Chloe Kelly. Like you have responsibility now to help the fullbacks and there'll be a situation next season if Ono Bache is in that left-back position where your fullbacks are now some of the best attacking players in the team as well and you want to get them forward.

43:58Jamie: So I think if you're looking at this almost new era arsenal when you come to the channels, because I think that's where we're going to see the most change, is it's going to be a different game plan. I think it will be like, Honor, go up. Emily, go up. Whoever those fullbacks are, I think are going to have a real attacking role. So I do think whoever comes in, I don't think fans should expect under Renee Slaggers a big, like a flashy, really attacking forward that's going to storm the box. Like, she's going to do the step over. She's going to put it top corner. I don't think that's the kind of player that Renee Slaggers wants in the team.

44:28Jamie: She wants someone that's going to do that, but also drop back. I think you'll see our wingers be more defensive next season. So there's that. I really enjoy the part of the question saying like, do you think it should be a completely new profile? I just think the new profile needs to be a younger player. I don't think we need to replicate who Beth Mead is because you can't replicate who Beth Mead is. But also I think Arsenal need a refresh in that brand because bringing in Olivia Smith just added a whole new layer of depth to that Arsenal attack because she's a player we haven't had before. Like Caitlin Ford is the work great and we'll definitely probably come on to that later.

45:00Jamie: Chloe Kelly is a really good example of a player that can take responsibility, but she can also be a really like X-factor footballer. I think that Arsenal need to find a middle ground of someone that's just going to raise the level. No more like floor raisers. I think Arsenal need a ceiling raiser, but I don't think fans should expect this kind of player that's going to come in with the fluorescent boots and score 15 goals a season and not defend because I just don't think that's a player that Rene Slaggers wants in the team. So it's an interesting one. I'm very interested to see what will happen there.

45:28Same. I think I'd like to see, whatever the profile, and Renee can really work with what she really wants, I'd like to see a really strong signing there. We're losing a massive player who, for nine years, has been pretty much every year double-digit goals and assists. She might not quite, well, there's two games left. I think she's got two goals, five assists this season. albeit playing a reduced role, but they're big shoes to fill and I think it has to be a really, really good player, basically. We know about three free transfers at the moment. I've had a lot of people asking me about the links to Selena Churchy.

46:18I don't know if it's pronounced Churchy or Serky or how it's pronounced. Sorry, I should have looked that up. I haven't been able to corroborate anything on that yet, personally. not, do you know, like Kicker, who've reported it, are generally very reliable, so I'm not refuting it, but I just haven't been able to corroborate it so far. But it really has to be, I think, a super high-quality player, basically, because we're losing a big one, and we're going to have to go big to replace her, I think. That was your question, wasn't it? so how about okay let's go with this one from at loza 93 um and and i've i've kind of answered this in the first half anyway so i'll throw this one to you what are your thoughts on the apparent very late u-turn on the mccabe contract katherine batty mentioned in her reporting it suggests arsenal don't quite know what they want do you think that's a fair assessment and do you have any concern going into this critical rebuild as a result?

47:24Jamie: I think it's a fair assessment and I think we've seen a few times fans have every right in my opinion to be disgruntled by Arsenal's recruitment strategy because it does kind of feel like let's repurpose the players that we already have and then find someone to fill their position and like I don't know anything about Selena Sersi or whatever her name is pronounced Hoffenheim leading goal scorer in the Bundesliga she's a good She's part of the German national team. I don't watch her in the Bundesliga. Obviously, we don't know if those links are true, but it does feel like in a world where that is true, you're bringing in a natural nine who's only ever played in a nine and then you're just going to build Russo in the 10.

47:58Jamie: And it's the same thing it kind of feels like with the Katie McCabe situation is you can play left-centre-back and we'll kind of raise the levels on a position that you were in, but we're not going to raise the levels on the position that we need to be raising levels on. And that feels like it's kind of the case in a lot of cases across the pitch and in many seasons now. So that is frustrating. It's the same thing with the CDM thing. Mariona, you'll do a good enough job there, but then we lose your qualities elsewhere. And I think that fans have every right to be disgruntled by the kind of, it's just like lackluster.

48:28Jamie: Like it's, that will do if that is what it appears to be. In the Katie McCabe situation in general, I think we need to look at it. And obviously this is with no information, but we need to look at it like objectively. Like this is a player that's played almost every minute for Arsenal for the last however many seasons. She's a really, really important player in the squad. She makes all the difference. She raises the level. Why are Arsenal not extending her? You do have to look at like there has to be an alternate factor there. And I think that that kind of concerns me a little bit because I don't want Arsenal to be so clear on a strategy of recruitment and players that they want in the squad, the culture that they want to build.

49:03Jamie: And then kind of make a U-turn and go, oh no, we need her positionally. positionally because if you're going to do a high turnover summer you need to do it properly like if you're going to set this ideology from the start of the season and say no this is the culture we're building this is the football we're building it obviously worries me two weeks from the end of the season and the summer transfer window that you're turning around and saying you know what I don't know any other left center backs in the game right now or left backs in the game right now let's just that will do and I think that's pretty poor recruitment strategy so nothing against Katie McCabe like I think she's a fantastic footballer and I would actually like her to be playing in an Arsenal shirt next season.

49:34Jamie: But you have to think about what's made them change their mind, what made them made up their mind in the first place, and why are they going backwards rather than looking at the options out there. One more example, Tarsian, for example, is sitting on the bench for Lyon every single week. That is a world-class centre-back that is very young, playing for the Brazil national team that can be repurposed into a very good footballer. It's just these kind of players that any sort of watching of women's football would tell you that there's options out there. So yeah, a little bit concerned and not because of the player team.

50:01Jamie: I I want to reiterate to everyone, it's not because it's McCabe at all. Yeah, definitely. It has like a bit of a, I guess a lot of people would say like a make, do and mend kind of feel to it. And I can understand that, to be quite honest. I mean, what about then, you know, about Caitlin Ford getting a new contract? Like I said, we reported last week and Catherine's now reporting the same thing, that it was very much a case of we'd like to keep one, but not both. And now Beth's going. Caitlin is like, well, I believe has been offered a new contract. I mean, a lot of people are very down on Caitlin at the moment.

50:46What would you think of keeping her in the group?

50:50Jamie: Yeah, I think we're going to have different opinions on this one, Tim, maybe for the first time in a long time. But I think obviously, and you probably agree, that if Mead had said yes to an extension, Ford's not staying at the club. Like this does feel like a cause and effect relationship. And in my opinion, again, I think that just goes to show the strategy. Like Mead, we can't really negotiate terms. We're not willing to sign her for a long-term deal. So Caitlin Ford will have to do because she's going to settle for a short-term deal. And that's a player that's going to settle. And I think that just, again, it shows everything that there is maybe, not wrong, but there is weaknesses to this Arsenal recruitment strategy.

51:22Jamie: And it's we've got this player already. why would we ever look at anyone else in the market in order to kind of raise our ceiling rather than raise our floor? And I think Caitlin Ford has been a fantastic player for Arsenal. Like at her best, she's done some great things. Every North London derby, she has made us happy, happy fans in red and white. But I do think that this is a player that is very replaceable because of the attributes she gives to this Arsenal team. I think you can find in a lot of other wingers. I think that she's got an incredible work rate, best work rate out of all four of the wingers that we currently have in the squad, counting Beth Mead.

51:55Jamie: She takes the most offensive responsibility. She's very, very good at managing a press. And I think you see a lot of high turnover football this season. You see a lot of crosses coming in from the right. That's often because Caitlin Ford's taking a player. That's often because she's managing the press. But I think that in order to win the league, Arsenal need to stop with keeping and retaining players that have attributes that you can teach a younger player to replicate, but also have a stronger output. And I just think two goals and zero assists for a winger in the WSL who's not had an injury this season is not good enough.

52:30Jamie: And I think it goes to show that Arsenal are a bit just, they don't bare their teeth in the transfer market and we're seeing that again. So I can understand and I agree with fans that this is an extension that's maybe just settling as opposed to trying to lift the ceiling. Yeah, I think a lot of people would point to like Gouraud writing at Chelsea once that stopped it was like thanks very much you've been great see ya we'll get we'll get someone else type thing I mean I think I think with Caitlin what's kind of difficult is that I completely understand it's warranted to look at like the end product numbers and say if we want to win the league is that enough I think that's completely justified I do think there is a little bit of throwing the baby out with the bathwater though and people getting so fixated on that that they don't look at the other things um that she brings so for like for example like i think in like penalty box entries she's one of the highest in the league like that that kind of getting you from c to b part she's really really good at she's really good at getting you up the pitch into dangerous areas um the conversion could certainly be higher definitely but i think there is a real value to that i'm not necessarily saying and therefore that should be new contract etc etc but i i think sometimes when fans get down on a player or they get their teeth in it's like everything they do is rubbish and i don't think that that's the case with caitlin tool like i say i understand the focus on the end product but i do think there are a lot of useful things the player does and you know you go into next season like like if we went into next season say with kelly smith ford but then we really went big on the other winger you know like for the balance of the group i kind of i that's what i was saying earlier you know we have to go big on that winger that has to be like another olivia smith level signing um for me to kind of really balance that group out um that was that was my question wasn't it so uh let's do one more each if you've got one i do we've got a couple of good questions about signing the season player season but i feel like we should leave that yeah let's do i i saw those as well I think the next podcast we can or like we'll do a season review um podcast and yeah we'll bank those questions for that great questions but something disastrous could happen in the next um this one is something that has been a recurring theme throughout this entire season that we've spoken about Tim but it's from at c bannon official uh should we be encouraged by the second half of the season in terms of going for the title next year or do we need a big and stronger window So slow starts are all too common for this team and 22-game season obviously means the title can be gone before you know it.

55:31Jamie: So I guess what positives can you draw from the second half of the season, Tim? But is turnover necessary to finally go for the league title? Yeah, so it'll be a 26-game season next season. True. Actually. So it's interesting because there's this kind of argument about young players. I think there's going to be like a slight tweak in the rules about academy players in your matchday squad. Don't entirely quote me on that, but I think that's kind of coming. But it's so difficult for clubs like Arsenal and Chelsea to blood young players in a league where you draw two games and you can't win the league anymore.

56:09um so i i don't know like one of one of the answers i was really grabbed by with renee i think maybe after we beat spurs and um you know she was asked about like are you coming into form at the right time and she said september to may is the right time to come into form so like she kind of dismissed the question and sounded as close to like annoyed as Renee sounds you know in terms of that like no I don't want to like come into form I don't want to like I don't want to talk about form I want us to be good for the whole season I'm reasonably hopeful that like a spare summer works and if you are going to have a bit of turnover like whether there's as much turnover as people want there's still going to be a fair bit of turnover this year there's still big players going I'd rather do that off the back of a non-tournament summer so perhaps this is a good time for it and um you know I think they'll they'll do a little European tour I think I said this last week I hope they just do a load of behind closed doors games that no as much I'd love to see them that like no one really sees and they just go away and like really really get this sorted because i i know for a fact it's something renee's very preoccupied with like this idea of how are we consistent the whole time and we don't have this kind of these aberrations and and things like that i think that's i think i think she really kind of defines that as as one of the kind of big parts of her job so i have to say i don't put a great deal of stock in oh, we're finishing the season.

58:01We have to be consistent across the whole season. What do you think?

58:05Jamie: Completely agree. I think that this is the best opportunity, though, to maybe fix that. No tournament. Get your squad fit. If your squad's fit by match day one, that just helps. Leah Williamson not fit. Chloe Kelly not fit. Obviously, Katie Reid started the season. We thought, oh, this is interesting. ACL, really, really heartbreaking for her. But just get your squad fit by match day one. And I think that's something that Arsenal more than most teams, because maybe it's because of depth, maybe it's injury prevention, maybe it's something to do with luck. I also think that really hurts us after a summer tournament as well.

58:38Jamie: So get your squad fit for match day one, but also it's an opportunity to train, like you said, behind closed doors games. We don't have to figure out our football during the season, like have it figured out by match day one. I think a summer is going to have a big impact on that. So I'm excited to see how that pans out, but I really, really hope it's utilized. And to me, it's not just about transfers. It's about, okay, get this group playing together as early as possible so we don't have to figure out how we play football in December and go from there. Yeah, big time. Let's finish on this one.

59:10Because I want a bit of a nibble on this one maybe to recontextualise it a bit. But at Phil40 asks, René made some comments about only being able to name 20 players in a squad in the league, which concerned me as to whether Arsenal are actually going to fill out the squad properly this summer so this is in response to his question I asked her in the pre-match about because because I think that Arsenal went in a player or two like in terms of the squad this season and I kind of asked Rene you know do you think the squad needs to be a bit bigger next season and then Sylvain Jame asked a very similar question because the Villa game weirdly we had no defenders on the bench and they were all attackers yet against Lyon we had like almost no attackers and they're all defenders it's just like the the defensive depth in the squad i think is really good but it's just like it's like slowly got wiped out um for this game so you know what renee kind of said in her answer was a bit like yeah like maybe it does need to be bigger but it can't be too big um because otherwise then you end up in a situation where everyone's fit and every weekend you're leaving out five players from your matchday squad and that's not a good thing to have either um but what what do you think on that um you know on renee's comments around that and whether we'll see a bigger squad next season do you want to go first yeah i feel

1:00:38Jamie: like you have your context to provide it will be more helpful for a good discussion yeah yeah so i i think the squad will be a bit bigger next season i think there's a recognition internally that there are certain players who've been overloaded and we've had to do some funny things with players and positions and stuff like that. And I don't think they want to do that. I think, and we've got an extra four league games, right? Because there's two extra teams next year. I always felt they came in a little bit underpowered, but at the same time, they were prepared to wait for two of their midfield targets to come in this summer.

1:01:18personally I support that I see that as learning lessons where in the past perhaps there's a couple of players leaving right now who were plan b and plan c and the signings didn't work and so I kind of support the idea that you wait for the right player that probably had a cost this year just because squad building is not a perfect science it's very difficult to get it perfect it's very difficult to have a perfect squad and a perfect transfer window and sometimes you get away with it right like we had 18 months of basically not having Emily Fox back up and we got away with it and now we do we might not have got away with it whereas in midfield we've come in a bit light and we haven't gotten away with it like that stuff happens but I do think and I hope the squad will be I'd say two players bigger next year is much closer to that sweet spot what do you think

1:02:14Jamie: Yeah, I think there's a couple things to this because Rene is obviously going to maybe back her squad in that answer as well and say like it can't be too much bigger. I trust the players that I have inside the building, all that kind of stuff. If your manager is not saying that, there are cultural issues at the club. I do think that this squad needs to be also in a situation that I think maybe it's a managerial thing, maybe it's a club culture thing, but for seasons our squad has not been as strong in depth as someone like Chelsea. And I think that Chelsea under Emma Hayes, and this is why maybe they're struggling a little bit under Sonia because it's not the same kind of culture from the top down.

1:02:47Jamie: But Emma Hayes, like players were happy to sit on the bench for her. And they were happy to kind of be those squad players. And you had a lot of really good players to an extent that were really, really okay with having a role off the bench or playing domestic cup games. And that's why Chelsea was such a dominant force because their depth was so good and everyone had a role. And I think we're seeing that a lot more under Rene than we did under Joe and Jonas. That's definitely certain. but there is without argument like a lack of depth in this squad and there is a reason why we can't get to an FA Cup semi-final or we struggle if we're if we're not good in if we're not progressing in the League Cup we're struggling in the Champions League like we can't hold four in all four competitions and I just think that like that's something this season obviously City didn't have the Champions League and that's the biggest one because of how many games you have to play but they were able to hold four in all of their all of their competitions and that's because they improved their depth.

1:03:38Jamie: Their depth last season was horrible. I still think they lack it a little bit. And I think that City maybe wants to keep an eye on next season with their depth in the Champions League. But, Tim, I don't think Arsenal have the squad to sustain that. And we've seen it. We fail in the WSL. It's always just there because it's like a couple games where we don't have a fully available squad. You're making makeshift positions. So I hope that this summer there is a strength in that because I want to be able to be firing on all cylinders. This season, obviously, the world champions, we're FIFA world champions.

1:04:05Jamie: No one forget that. but we went trophyless in like the four standard competitions. And I think that comes down to depth and how overused and tired some of these players are. So I hope that's increased. But at the same time, it's not a perfect world. You need to manage personalities. A lot of world-class players aren't going to sit on the bench for any club. They're going to go start somewhere else. And I think that that's completely like overlooked when people look at squad building and they say, why can't Arsenal sign all these players? Because they're not going to want to sit behind Olivia Smith.

1:04:31Jamie: And Olivia Smith's not going to want to not start games for Arsenal. So there's a balance that needs to be struck there. But yeah, the squad will improve, I think. And it needs to improve in order to be firing in all leagues. Yeah. And look, there's a couple of players leaving, right? Like Pilova and Laia Kadina. Like they're in the squad. They're in the squad as numbers, but they're not really trusted. Right. And, you know, replacing them with players that the manager will use in anything under the massive crisis. that's part of how your squad gets bigger as well. It doesn't just have to be the number of players.

1:05:06It's the number of players you trust and will use, basically. So, like, for example, I think if we, let's say we replace Victoria Plover and Laia Kadena, the size of the squad doesn't get bigger in numbers, but if their players Rene wants, it does get bigger. So I think, you know, focus on that as well. but listen I think that will do for this one game against Everton tomorrow night and then final game of the season at Anfield on Saturday so we will probably come back with a podcast maybe on the Sunday since the men are playing Monday but we'll kind of we'll see on that one I'm going to race back from Anfield to try and make it to the Askblog and Arsenal Vision live show at Union Chapel on the Saturday evening.

1:05:58I might only make the second half of that. I don't know. I'm in the hands of Avanti Northwest trains, which are not good hands to be in, quite frankly. But Jamie, thanks so much as ever.

1:06:12Jamie: Thank you, Tim. Let's finish off the season strong, please, guys. Six points, a lot of goals, and a lot of emotional goodbyes at the Emirates. So make sure the voices are heard against Everton because that will be a special night. Absolutely. I think it will. So it's just a shame it's on a Wednesday rather than the weekend. Real shame. Yeah, yeah. But it is what it is and hopefully people will be able to stick around and say goodbye to some big players who deserve big ovations. And yeah, we'll come back with a podcast after the Liverpool game and we'll keep to the kind of the same structure for that.

1:06:46And then the week after we'll probably do like a big kind of season review once all of that's in the rear window, as it were. so do stick with us um for that thanks so much for listening and downloading as ever please do share um give us a review wherever you listen to your podcast as well make it clear that you it's the arsenal women ask cast you're reviewing because we put it out in the same feed as the ask cast um as well and we do that delivery deliberately because it's one of the biggest marketing tools we have quite frankly um so yeah keep it with us real real pleasure to speak to you again and we will speak to you again very very soon

1:07:40Jamie: immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's world cup i'm alex abnos senior sports editor from the guardian and whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, reporters on the ground with all the big teams, and the legendary Football Weekly podcast, The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more.