Arsenal Women Arsecast Episode 168: Have you ever had it blue?

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0:48Hello and welcome to the Arsenal Women Ask, Cast and Ask blog.com with me your host Tim Stillman. I don't really know what to call this episode, it's kind of a bit of a mailbag, bit of an update, bit of a kind of newsy type podcast we did say we were going to do a bit of a season review podcast maybe 10 days or so after the final game didn't really get around to that unfortunately with the men kind of winning the league and going to the champions league final just couldn't quite squeeze it in think the moment's probably gone to do it like a proper like season kind of review but we'll do some of that so we'll talk about some stuff that's happened because some stuff has happened which has got tongues wagging we'll do a few questions in the second half so this is a bit of an odds and sods episode just a bit of admin from the top those of you that subscribe to the Arsenal Women newsletter and if you're wondering why that hasn't gone out for a couple of weeks it's because we've we've gone over a certain number of subscribers which now means we need to change the plan with the site called Ghost.

1:57And that just happened at the worst possible time because it just happened at like the busiest time, I think, our website's experienced in the last like 20 years or so. So there's some admin to do on Ask Blog News and that's on the list for this week. So I've been writing articles on Ask Blog News that would have been the newsletter, but probably next week we'll get back to normal on that. Now that's enough admin. Joining me to talk about stuff that's happened, as ever, is our co-host Jamie Spanger. Jamie, torn yourself out of the library for this. I've crawled myself out of the dark library in the middle of an assessment season right now at university, but also kind of relishing, Tim, in the next seven days before Mexico, South Africa, and the World Cup kicking off.

2:44Great times for Australian viewers, so very excited. So I'm kind of in a nice zen moment right now where I'm enjoying not having to worry about football. But obviously some news we got earlier in the week, definitely put that on the back burner. So lots to talk about. Yeah, it's incredible how quickly the World Cup has kind of come up already. Like players already have like flown out and they're in the US and their training is absolutely mad. Not the case for the women's team, although the women's teams are joining up with their countries this weekend. Again, this is the kind of the one in every four years kind of lull summer, which obviously Arsenal will be making use of.

3:25I think a lot of teams will be making use of in the transfer market. There's four extra WSL games next year. I think Arsenal, Manchester City, Chelsea are all in a little bit of relative transition. City going into the Champions League, Chelsea still turning over a lot of their squad. Arsenal still turning over a lot of theirs. um jamie there's no other place to start we talked in the last episode about katie mccabe's departure which had just been announced um and we've kind of i guess we've talked about you know the arsenal side of it the arsenal handling of it the goodbye and all of that um now we broke the story with emma sanders from the bbc that katie was likely to be going to Chelsea after reports that Manchester City previously were the front runners now Chelsea's interest was always there and was always known I guess I'll do the explanation on the story later but I mean I think you can see by the reaction on social media this is possibly the most controversial transfer maybe since Russo coming to Arsenal from Manchester United actually of the WSL era.

4:44I mean, what were your initial thoughts on Katie McCabe going to the club she supported as a child? Aye, aye, aye, aye, Tim. If you asked me a couple of days ago, maybe my answer would have been a little bit less emotionally regulated. I think, yeah, this is by far the biggest transfer we've ever seen in women's football, even in relation to the Russo one. Like at that time, United had had a really good season, but they're not the rivalry that Arsenal and Chelsea are.

5:13Jamie: There's a real deep and, yeah, deep-rooted hatred between these two clubs. And I think it's really good for the women's game that there is a rivalry like Arsenal and Chelsea. I think it's probably one of the only ones that is so consistent. So I don't know if it's comparable. I think the only thing comparable about Arsenal and Man United is maybe their men's team have a really historic rivalry at that time. I still don't think. Maybe I'm biased. I'm protecting Lesley Russo, but this is certainly in a league of its own when you talk about big transfers, maybe setting up for a massive summer across women's football as well.

5:44So yeah, Tim, it's an interesting situation because I can't lie, last episode I was like defending Katie McCabe and flying her flag because I still stand by the fact that the process wasn't strong from the club.

5:56Jamie: And I do believe that the club really, really faltered a good opportunity and didn't really know what their recruitment path was. And they got a bit like muddled in what they were setting out to do for next season. I still stand by that. I think that's a trend at the club but yeah the delivery of of this transfer has been to say the least him surprising a little bit shocking um I think it maybe got me thinking back to how how nice we might have had it when Jordan signed with Aston Villa and said unfortunately I'm a I'm a Villa player now so yeah the delivery the marketing the uh the badge tap the yeah being a Chelsea fan I've enjoyed I think my time at Arsenal was good in a sense like it's been a hard pill to swallow though I can't lie.

6:36Yeah, I was going to ask about that, actually, that I guess the kind of the the content that comes out with it. I kind of feel like nowadays, like I, I am a fan, but I kind of can't do the fan thing fully nowadays. And, you know, I haven't paid for a ticket for like eight years. Like I can't, you know, I definitely can't tell people how to feel about this type of thing and I wouldn't anyway. But also it's kind of difficult for me as well in a sense in that I kind of, and this is dying out, this is a relic of a bygone age. I kind of know the player and that's not really happening anymore. It's just that Katie comes from a different era really.

7:26So I guess I have my biases there. And I guess what I'm saying is that like, this is one of those rare transfers where maybe I see it more from a journalistic point of view than a fan point of view, which I don't usually, I'd say. I'd say the fan in me is bigger. But how did you, I've seen a lot of people, I don't know if upset is the right word, but annoyed about like, like you said, the content and the delivery and all of that. What was your kind of view on that? Yeah, I think that there's so many different angles you need to look at this because from a Chelsea club perspective, play on. Like completely fair enough.

8:04They've made a really big signing from a big rival that they know they can upset.

8:08Jamie: They can upset the fan base. It's a really good selling point as well for a player that has caused Chelsea a lot of grief as well to look at their fan base and say, no, she's ours now. Let's make Arsenal fans laugh. Like what's our common ground? We all hate Arsenal. I think the whole like quote tweet of the we've got McCabe, fair enough. I think that the content that they're pushing out, like you would do the same. It's a marquee signing. It's a really big moment in women's football. So you can't be angry at the kind of content that's coming out from a logical point of view and Chelsea fans are lapping it up.

8:34I think that from a Katie McCabe perspective, and maybe this is me thinking, Tim, it's a lot more simple than it should be, but I just don't know if she needs to be rinsing it in the way that she is. I don't know if like there is a lot of, she's very much a human being with agency and I'm

8:50Jamie: sure she can probably turn around and say hey I'm not gonna I'm not gonna tap the Chelsea badge before I've even stepped foot on the on the pitch so I don't know I think fans have in my opinion every right to be a bit annoyed because obviously there was a Manchester City signing kind of in the mail maybe for a little bit and that's not the Chelsea signing itself isn't really what's upset me Tim because like these players are human beings they have to plan for like the money in women's football is a big thing financial package is a big thing in women's football because these most of these players they can't just retire like men's players can after they after they finish and then not go on and do anything else because they need income.

9:22Jamie: So I understand maybe it's a bigger pay packet. I understand wanting to stay in London, like housing, whatever she's doing in her life. I can understand the move to Chelsea because this is a player that is going to start for one of the best clubs in the world. And she's still got a lot of good years of football in her. But I think from a marketing point of view, this is a club that you have played out for the last 10 years. The fan reception for Katie McCable on the final day of the season was like anything else. So I can understand why fans are turning around and being like hey it's so not cool to kind of throw it in our faces because at the end of the day I'm not the person in the recruitment room like messing up your contract talks like we are the people that have been there every single game supporting this player so I can understand why fans are annoyed I was so annoyed I was actually really annoyed and I remember like a couple seasons ago I went to Arsenal versus West Ham the men at London Stadium and it was just as Declan and I signed and there was a guy walking down um like Stratford and he had a West Ham shirt on with like number 41 but it said Judas on it and I thought wow you've paid like a hundred pounds for that and I'm just thinking like we might be seeing a couple of those at Stamford Bridge the way I've been seeing social media rise up Tim so yeah it's a complicated situation I can understand why fans are annoyed it's it's pretty insane yeah I guess I don't know if it's because I thought it could have been worse I was okay Yeah, like her side of the content, if that makes sense.

10:41Like, I get, like, the badge tap thing, I don't think that's for us. I think that's for Chelsea and Chelsea fans. And obviously, she's got some work to do there because that's not a fan base that have liked her very much. She has to ingratiate herself a little bit. So I didn't necessarily find that bit, like, too disrespectful. And obviously, like, the quote tweeting Arsenal, like, have you stuff. I mean, first of all, there's a very obvious answer, which hundreds and hundreds of people responded with when it comes to Chelsea saying, have you? And it's like, have you? And yeah, pictures of a particular trophy.

11:22I guess if I can be bothered, I look back on the content Arsenal did about Chloe Kelly and Lesley Russo. and they certainly I don't think did anything like that, like the kind of the quote tweeting or whatever. But, you know, I'm absolutely certain that Alessio Russo said nothing inflammatory about Manchester United at all. I'd be more inclined to look at the Chloe Kelly interview and say, well, if I was a Man City fan watching that, would I take issue with anything? I don't know. My kind of view is it's just it hurts and um i kind of think what whatever the content is people aren't gonna just the sight of her in a chelsea shirt just i mean it looks wrong anyway um so it's you know i i kind of think there isn't a good way to do it there's probably a really bad way to do it i don't think she really went there but like i say i have my biases there anyway um what about i mean this is maybe an obvious question but like and maybe actually it's too raw a time to really consider this but I mean what does that do to her kind of her arsenal legacy in your eyes?

12:37In my eyes in in what I've deduced from the fan base like maybe a couple of other a different situation Tim I think that I don't know I don't want to be like that that person because again like I need to reiterate I was defending her in the last episode I think that this is a bitter end to an amazing legacy, but it doesn't undo what she did at the club. Like it doesn't undo the 10 years she spent at the club,

13:02Jamie: what she has done for this football club, the results that she's pulled in, the places she's taken us when it felt like we couldn't go there because of injuries or circumstances. Like I still think that out of any like modern footballer that's still in the game, I think that Cade McCabe has the biggest legacy at the Arsenal Football Club. And it's really, really hard to then say like, Like we messed up the contract a little bit and she's gone to a Champions League club where she's going to start. Niamh Charles is departing. She's still got a lot of good football ahead of her. Like I can't go and then say her legacy is ruined because I don't think it is ruined.

13:35I think it's tarnished. I definitely think it's tarnished. Like it's not to the same extent as, sorry, I think it's a worse extent to Vivian Amitima's move to Man City because it's a local rival. It's our biggest rival.

13:45Jamie: I think her legacy is certainly tarnished. I think that it's going to be a hard time. like there won't be a reception at the Emirates. Remember when Jordan Obs got subbed up in that Villa game and she got a big reception. I assume if Lievolti comes back to the WSL, the same thing will happen to her. Same thing happened to Viviana Miedema. I don't think that that will be happening. And I think rightly so. Fans, I wouldn't be cupping her either. But to say her legacy is ruined based on this transfer, when I think there's two sides to this story in terms of the club's negligence towards it, I think is a bit of an oversight.

14:13Jamie: Maybe if you ask Arsenal fans in a month, it will be on. It's not that, it's not going to ruin her legacy, but it's definitely tarnished. Like I will not be applauding Katie McCabe in a Chelsea shirt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's fair enough. In terms of how the story came together on the off chance that anyone's remotely interested, basically I'd heard something last week but was in Budapest, was a little bit occupied, couldn't like fully double and triple source it. So I spoke to Emma at the BBC because I knew she'd be able to. And actually she was on her way to the sevens anyway, which is a really good place to go and source a story because that's where all the agents are that's where all the press officers are and stuff um and uh yeah not surprised at all that emma got that done in a couple of hours while i was while i was knocking back some beers in budapest um and that's why it's a joint story basically i just didn't have time um to to do like the the full kind of sourcing on it and i i kind of had an inkling it was going to happen quite quickly so that's that's why we did it but um yeah and and actually this is also um i don't want to say a lesson because it's something i've always known the reason i really looked into it was because shibana hearn had done a video for talk sport where i think she'd hinted quite broadly that it was going to be on an unexpected transfer and that motivated me to investigate it um because i frankly i probably wouldn't have so um you know be open to all lines of inquiry because shaban's husband is katie's agent so um so be be open to everything basically um when it comes to hunting for stories like that um and another kind of uh transfer and this is one i also kind of heard about last week we didn't have time to do anything with and Sokhodona beat us to the punch.

16:07But Victoria Pilova looks like she's going to go to Tottenham. Don't believe that's done, but believe it will be done. Basically, obviously, we already knew that the player was leaving. It's interesting, actually, you know, set against the context of Katie McCabe going to Chelsea. And obviously, Pilova hadn't been at Arsenal for as long, hadn't quite had the same impact. But like Pilova going to Spurs feels like a real footnote in terms of like the rivalry thing, because I just don't think the North London rivalry is there yet for Spurs. But what do you think about that move for her? And does that carry any like, I guess, emotional baggage for you?

16:47Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? In the men's game, this would be like insane, but this is just, it's not the same context. Like the North London derby is not there yet. And also the players not been there as long.

16:57Jamie: And it was very much like riding on the wall for Victoria Pilova. So it's funny to be like, oh, Katie McCabe is Judas. and Pilova's going to Spurs. And yeah, fair enough, I guess. Play on. I think for the player, this is probably the best move she could do into WSL. It's safe to say. This is a squad. And taking my Arsenal cap off, this is a squad that looks like they are heading towards great things. It's very funny from an outside perspective right now. It does kind of feel like Spurs care more about their women's side than their men's side, which is very hilarious in terms of their transfer intent.

17:27But there's links to Kirstie Hansen. Obviously, the Victoria Pilova signing will be really big for them as well because Martin Ho is making a bit of a super team right now and not only a super team but a young team. Like Kirstie Hansen's adding some experience. Pulover will be that kind of top-end prime age player, but they've got some great players, Tinka Tamberg, Sigmund Gopset, like Toka Koga. These are like good players that are headed for a very, very big. Yeah, Shakira Martinez. Like I would be, if I was Man United next season, I'd be looking and saying, geesh, like that's our kind of spot battling for Champions League, taken over by a young manager who really knows what he's doing and obviously has taken United to pass success as well.

18:04So for Spurs, I think this is a very exciting project. As a women's football fan, I'm excited that there's a club like this actually challenging and building a squad and trying to compete

18:12Jamie: and break into that top three without just signing 32-year-old players and supplementing their squad with it. So, yeah, I think Victoria Blover, this is the kind of project you want to end up at. And also that midfield out of everywhere in their group, if she wants to kind of play as a bit of an eight, there's probably a bit of a gap there for her, like players like Olga Arson. And she signed a new deal, which was surprising. but Drew Spence is heading towards the end of her career. Olivia Holt needs some help in that midfield in terms of just creative players. So for a move for Victoria Plover, I think this is probably the best one she could make in the WSL certainly, maybe even wider in Europe.

18:44Jamie: So yeah, it makes complete sense for the player. She gets to stay in North London. It's a bit of a win. Yeah, not based on information whatsoever, I really thought she might go to Manchester United or someone like that because players do want to stay in the WSL and actually teams like Spurs are paying competitively as well. So, because I wondered if she might go to Germany or something, which tends to be a popular move for Dutch players. So, yeah, that's going to be an interesting one. I wouldn't have predicted that two years ago off the back of the season that she had that she'd be going to Spurs.

19:24Speaking of midfielders as well, Well, kind of Layla Harbert is bound for San Diego Wave. That is going to happen. Catherine Batty in the Telegraph breaking that. My understanding is Arsenal have a first refusal on, you know, if she gets sold or whatnot. But Layla Harbert to San Diego Wave. Now, she did a loan spell at Portland Thorns last year. Didn't play a huge amount, but clearly something about the NWSL that appealed. I can go into, I think, a little bit of why I think an NWSL club might want her linking up the Jonas Eideval again. I mean, I was curious about what might happen to this player.

20:08Everton on loan just didn't work at all. What do you reckon of this move for Leila Harbert?

20:14Jamie: Yeah, the Everton loan was an unfortunate one for Leila Harbert because they were just in a bit of a period of turmoil. They were like trying to avoid relegation. Obviously, the manager swap, It was just like a really unlucky, unfortunate situation for her there. Returning to the NWSL is exciting. The prospect of maybe playing with Alexia Padeus is genuinely insane. But yeah, linking up with an old manager that, you know, we don't really know much about the relationship there because Leila was a bit too young at that stage of her career when Jonas was at the helm. But I think that the return to the NWSL is something that's an exciting, exciting venture for a player like her.

20:47Jamie: Like she didn't get a lot of game time at Portland. And she did play a little bit though. And we saw like the kind of conversation around that at the time where she's playing around a player like Sam Coffey. Like that's good for her like experience. And maybe she is going to be a kind of player like that. And I think the NWSL in terms of developing young players is just the best league in the world. Like right now for that kind of player and that kind of breadth. Like there's so many players like that that can step into those situations. So I don't know enough about the player and her playing style in particular to say, yeah, this is the league for her.

21:18Jamie: But I think in terms of development, it points towards something good came out of that Portland Thorns loan spell. And she really, really valued her kind of development time there. So I moved to San Diego Wave. I mean, you're in California in the sun with, I guess, maybe the best player in the world. So why wouldn't you? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think it says something as well about, you know, Layla's like a creative, deep-lying playmaker. And in the US, they don't, that's not the type of player they typically produce. You know, I think Sam Coffey, that's instructive, right? That's the US national team's kind of deep midfielder and she's not a playmaker.

21:58They develop a lot of physical, more destructive, more transitional type players and Leila's not that player. But at the same time, by being out there, Leila can develop that side of her game by playing in a more transitional league, which I think I know was kind of the point in her going to Thorns in the first place to bring up that kind of physical side of her game. I think we're going to see more of that. I think we're going to see more young English players going over to the NWSL, not least because the pathways for young English players are really not there at the moment. There are very few players under 24 playing regularly in the WSL at the moment.

22:38And that's probably a bit of an issue for England. But I do think NWSL teams will start to hoover up young English players. Finally, before we go to a break, another report that came from Build, which I was able to kind of verify in Budapest as well, is interesting. Lisa Baum from RB Leipzig, 19-year-old winger. We've talked about the need to refresh in the wide areas. We've talked about the need for the squad to get younger, perhaps to get younger in those wide areas as well. We've talked about needing left-footers. Lisa Baum, from what, not great detail, but from clips I've seen, seems to tick a lot of those boxes.

23:19Jamie: Yeah, this is exciting. This is the kind of stuff I was urging for. Look for players that we're not just seeing in the WSL. We're not just going to bring into a squad. Well-known players, Lionesses, like look outside of that. Obviously, there's a past hesitation as well, based on the players that we've kind of done that with in the past. Obviously, Rosa Kofadji from Hecken. Her future is still kind of unknown. someone like Jenna Neiswanger, Katrine Kuhl. These transfers haven't worked out. We're yet to kind of see one other than Smilla Holmberg in the Renee Slagers era, kind of go scout a young player.

23:47Jamie: What identity does she bring to the team? So I'm actually less nervous about this whole narrative anymore because Renee's done exactly that. She's picked a young player that was doing really well in her league in Sweden and Smilla Holmberg's already part of the furniture at Arsenal. So I'm hoping that this kind of recruitment process is a lot more reliable and there's a pathway for them now, Tim. I don't know enough about Lisa Baum. I know that she's a winger and I know that she, I think she can play a little bit wing back as well, which again, I think just points towards exactly what we've been talking about for the last six months.

24:16Jamie: Like Renee's going to want you to be a very versatile player with a high work rate. You're going to need to come back and going to need to drop back. And that again, like to me, looks like a profile that has been identified that's going to help strengthen the squad. So again, exciting. Like I said, I don't know enough about the player, but the age profile is great. The playing profile is great. The versatility sounds exactly like what Slagers is wanting. So, yeah, this is the kind of recruitment I think that we need to see more of. And I made a point, I think, on social media a couple of weeks ago.

24:42It was when Villa Berman got named the WSL Young Player of the Season. These are the kind of players that I'm like, Chelsea are finding these gems. Like Villa Berman is going to be one of the best centre-backs in the world. And she's already starting over some of the strongest players. These are the transfers that Arsenal need to work out. Yeah, this is what the recruitment room needs to do. So, yeah, sounds pretty good to me, Tim. Yeah, yeah. I think I'd add two things to it. First of all, she's a lefty who can play on the right. I can't remember the last time Arsenal had a winger like that. Katie played on the right wing a fair bit when we won the league in 2019.

25:17Other than that, I just don't remember a lefty doing that kind of inverting from the left. We just haven't had that profile and think we really need something like that. Just for variety's sake, as much as anything. one of the things I think Arsenal want to do is just be less predictable in attack because we can anyone who's listening to this right now last season you could write down Arsenal's attacking substitutions before the game started it's yep Frida will come on for Stina and or like sorry Stina will come on for Frida Russo against it you know and and we'll just like for like the wingers.

25:59I think they want a bit more than that. And I think Selena Churchy is probably part of that as well if that signing gets over the line. So I like that. I think the other thing, the Lisa Bowne thing, again, if that happens, because it hasn't happened yet, it's strong interest as far as I know. It should, I think, bring new context to Caitlin Ford signing a new deal. I think that's very much about having more squad depth than we had last season. And, you know, just having that kind of a bit like Katie at Chelsea, actually, because they've got what's their young left back? Swirla? Yeah, Chloe Swale.

26:45Swirla, Swirla. I can't remember. But basically they've got a 17, 18 year old left back who really looks like the real deal, but probably isn't quite ready yet and needs a couple of years. and you learn alongside Katie McCabe. Katie can take that position for a couple of years. I think keeping a little bit of an experience winger there for squad depth and to kind of maybe help along that younger profile as well, I think. That's kind of some of the thinking there. Should we take a break there, Jamie?

27:20Jamie: Let's do it. Right, we will take a break right here and we will be back with some of your questions submitted on Blue Sky right after this.

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28:19The problem is you just haven't been introduced yet. We're Acast, where that introduction happens. As the world's largest podcast marketplace, we let you browse shows, see who's listening, and book host-read sponsorships or run your own ads all from one platform. Transparent pricing, real-time data, complete control. Start advertising on podcasts by visiting acast.com slash advertise. guys okay welcome back to the arsenal women ask cast and ask blog.com with tim stillman and jamie spanger talking a little bit about transfers um in the first half we did ask for questions from blue sky uh and we'll ask a couple of those now in time on a tradition now i'm going to start with this one, Jamie, because we did kind of promise a season review episode, which didn't happen.

29:14But there is one kind of, I guess, season review-y question from at my spam account, who asks, who was the signing of the season for Arsenal? Now, I'm going to omit Barovotkova, unless you really object to that. And that leaves us with Olivia Smith, Chloe Kelly, Taylor Hines Annika Borba Smilla Holmberg who do you think was the best signing of those? Surely we're just mutually agreeing it was Olivia Smith right? Yes I think I think basically there are there are like one and a half answers to this and I'd take the other one basically Yeah I think that you can make a case for all these players I think like everyone has stepped up when necessary but Olivia Smith is the ceiling raiser and yeah she's been her integration to the squad has been amazing and I'm so glad that she's an Arsenal player.

30:06Yeah, and I think it's quite clear she's going to be one of the stars of the team going forward. Yeah, definitely. Chloe Kelly was injured too much. Taylor Hines, good player, not a ceiling raise, been a good floor raiser. Annika Borba, Ditto, I think very good kind of competition for the number one spot. So by process of elimination, I'd say Smilla Holmberg has a decent case. Obviously, she came in halfway through the season, but I find it difficult to believe she's 19 actually to watch her play because it's like she's so influential. I mean, I don't know how she got like five assists or something in half a season and she's got some qualities we didn't necessarily have and actually I think particularly with Chloe Kelly not fit her crossing because it's really only Chloe Kelly that's a brilliant, brilliant crosser at the ball set to have.

31:04Holmberg there too. I'm looking forward to seeing more of her next season. Do you have a question? I do. This is looking ahead. This is from Premier League winning egg, because I don't know if anyone knows, but Arsenal did actually win the Premier League. This is from at fever bitch. Which of our current players, Tim, do you think is likely to have a big season next season and why? um i would say let me just think through the squad here um for a minute i think i'm really really interested to see geraldine reuteler and what positions slash positions she plays i think that will be really really interesting and to see how she's used does she go straight into the first team does she feel like troublesome number 10 spot is she in and out like i'm i'm really really curious about that one i mean my actual inclination is olivia smith will go to another level and we'll get more consistent and we'll score more goals um and things like that but we kind of just talked about her.

32:15So I'm going to say it's difficult not to be obvious here. No, I'm just going to say Olivia Smith. I think Olivia Smith is just going to keep hitting another level. And I just think it's really obvious that she is already one of the best players in the league. And all she really needs is to go to that level where she shows that in every single game and she shows that several times in every single game. At the moment, it's slightly flashes, which I think is fine for her age. But I think Olivia Smith, if you told me in three years' time that everyone would think that Olivia Smith is the best player in the WSL, I wouldn't be surprised.

32:59What do you reckon on that one? I'm going to go Steena Blaxtinius. And for the reasons that I think this Selena Churchy, is that how we're pronouncing it? I think it's Churchy. I don't 100 % know. Well, this signing is interesting, right? Because she's an out-and-out nine. So it kind of says to me that Alessia Russo is destined for a life in the attacking midfield. And I think it's interesting because if that's the case, you do have three rotating nines. Michelle Adjumang also is an interesting one in terms of this Selena Churchy situation. So I think that there is maybe a situation here where Steiner is, like the starting nine, if Alessia is going to be predominantly in that 10 area.

33:35and I think we've just seen a player this season in Steena that like if we're going to do it most

33:40Jamie: improved it would be her like we've seen a player that's just kind of rounded off her game and really filled the gaps in her game and there was a lot of things that were like she wasn't very good at holding the ball up um she lacked the skills that Alessia Russo kind of possessed and this season I think we both saw we saw them both evolve because they kind of started adopting the traits of one another they're working together a lot more and I think Steena just went to a different level of intelligence in terms of her football IQ so I think that this is a player that is at the in the prime of her career right now and I think can actually continue to improve at Arsenal and I'm really really glad that she's like a player that I think next season we're going to see this is a serious player this is not a banter player like she's she can take Arsenal um to a new level in the way that she's kind of morphing her game right now so yeah I'm gonna go Steena Blackstinius yeah interesting um how about this one then uh from Phil at Phil4T are you at all concerned our rumored transfer business seems to be doing nothing for our issues with aerial domination.

34:37So many of the goals we conceded were from set pieces. We win the league if you remove goals from set pieces. I didn't know that, but that sounds about right. We didn't have a great record of scoring from and conceded a fair few. So, so far, the players we know about, Onabache, Geraldine Reuteler, Georgia Stamway, potentially Selena Churchy, potentially Lisa Baum, someone we're interested in none of them are solving that issue um is that a concern for you yet yeah this is a really good question I had this one next as well I think yeah certainly this is concerning I do think there's context to the situation though like you hope that you have a fit in returning Katie Reid um and we've seen what Renee like opening game of the season last season against LCL and then she backed it up again against West Ham like Leah Williamson was injured

35:27Jamie: but Katie Reid was that starting center back so it's obvious that Renee like trusts this young player and there's a pathway for her there. And I think she almost always solves a lot of your issues in terms of clearing out set pieces. Like you look at a team like Lyon, they are so tall, but it's almost always Wendy Renard that's clearing the ball out of that box and set pieces. So I think, yeah, you bring in a player like Katie Reid and it solves a lot of your issues. I also think the context of this season, the way that Arsenal have conceded, it hasn't always been like purely they've just been out-muscled and out-heighted by like an aerial dominant team.

36:00Jamie: I think it's also just the way that we've like defended set piece has been so lackluster. We're like zonal marking. We're not following players, like players getting free shots at goal. I just think there's a lot more that needs to improve. Obviously the set piece coaches, we're getting a refresh there. So that might change things as well. So I do think there's a bit of context in the situation, but I do agree. Like we are, we're regressing a little bit as well. Like on about you're smaller than Katie McKay, probably less physical. Like there is a lot of upgrades in this squad, but there's also like, you're losing a little bit on the physicality side as well so I can see both sides but yeah a concern I would say too yeah no I think the Leon comparison is a really good one because it's not Selma Basher it's not really Ingrid Engen you know I guess Lindsay Heaps is pretty decent in the air but I look around the Leon team and it's one player really and she plays at centre back and for me that's what it comes down to I think you're absolutely right to mention Katie Reid I think that's a big part of the reason And actually she came in to the team earlier in the season, as well as her other qualities.

36:58But I think it sold with one centre-back, really. It wasn't really a problem when we had Louise Quinn or Jen Beattie or Haffaele. We're just missing that player. And for me, signing that centre-back, that has to be a big part of this summer. But what I'd say to people as well is that when it comes to this summit like stuff will dribble out basically like this time last week i didn't know anything about lisa belm um you know like life can change with a text message and you become aware of interest and like i'd say you know when it comes to summer transfer business and stuff like that i i'd cite the learn to sit back and observe meme just kind of wait and see what happens because i don't we don't know everything yet basically um you know like i think there's interest in other attackers whether we get them i don't know um so i haven't heard anything about a center back yet that doesn't mean that there isn't anything happening and tomorrow or next week or next month me or another journalist or someone might get that message and then it changes.

38:12So like, I'd say don't judge the summer business until a little bit more is known. Your turn for a question. Yes, I have a bit of a double barrel one. This one is from at Clive B. We finished the season with the best defensive record in the WSL, despite not having a

38:29Jamie: consistent back four and goalkeeper. Do you agree that we therefore need to focus mostly on additions to the attack in this summer window? And then a similar question from at AWFC321221. How defensive stats in the WSL this season has been great. Fuel's goals conceded, most clean sheets in the league, least XG conceded as well. Clearly, defence isn't an issue for us, but we are struggling on the other end. What can we do to improve that? Yeah, a lot of that's going to be about recruitment. And again, I think there's more there we don't know with the attack with regards to kind of churn and turnover.

39:07I still do think that we need a centre-back, just if for no other reason than Steph Cattley's 32 and you've got to start doing some kind of contingency planning there. For me, I'd like that to be one of our big signings. I mean, I guess Onabache, George Stamway, they're really big signings, but I think centre-back as well, I think it's going to be a really, really important position. that left centre-back role in particular. So I'm really curious to see what we do there because a lot of it as well has been about kind of very good structure. But at the same time, when you have really good structure, sometimes it takes something away from you.

39:49In attack, it takes a little bit of freedom away from you. I think in terms of getting better in the attack, we're going to have to be a team that spreads goals around a bit. we kind of we have two strikers that kind of get us to that 25 30 goal mark we do that through two strikers I'm okay with that um if Olivia Smith can get into double figures then you know I I do think a lot kind of rests on the number 10 role as well what what do we do there um you know if we get Selena Churchy over the line like what can she add in terms of goals like I I'm clearer I think on what can happen there. But I do think we need that centre-back and I don't know who that is or what that looks like just yet.

40:39What do you reckon on that one? Yeah, I completely agree.

40:42Jamie: I think we still need to strengthen that centre-back position. Also, Leah Williamson again, I feel so horrible for this player. She's pulled out of England qualifiers. Her body has just given up on her in the last season, which is really harsh. But Arsenal need to look at that as well, like logically and say we need another center back, left center back preferably, but like just depth at a level that's going to raise our ceiling. It's not just going to like get us by when we have injuries and older players. So I completely agree, Tim. I think defensive stats, fantastic. However, there's still room to improve that as well.

41:13Jamie: I think that you always need to, you always need to strengthen it. And attacking-wise, it's hard to look at this squad right now, I think, Tim, and say how do we improve it? Because it's going to be so different next season. Like the squad's just going to look different. the depth is going to look different like you said earlier the subs are going to be different so yeah I think a lot to improve but I'm with you still need to strengthen that centre-back position yeah yeah I'm we we had a question as well actually about kind of Leah's injury record in the last couple of seasons uh for example from Simon uh Gerrity I'm less I'm not I say I'm not that bothered about that I am bothered about it because I want Leah to play but like I just kind of think the depth we've got there with Katie Reid and Lotta I just I don't think it's something that needs addressing to be honest I think the players are there already and I think something I've learned in my years watching football as well is sometimes players just have a season or two where they get injured and I feel like particularly in a social media age we've really gone towards like being quite yeah I'm gonna say quite vicious when players are injured like it's some kind of moral cowardice or something and and it definitely happens in men's football as well where it's like someone gets injured twice or something and it's like oh my god he has to retire we have to get rid of him you know and it becomes like very like brutal and I think what I've learned is, don't get me wrong, sometimes yeah, players are injury prone pretty permanently and you've kind of got to do something about it but also sometimes players just have a season or two where they get some niggles and then it stops happening so I don't really think that's something we need to think about too much at the moment Should we do one more each?

43:06Was it, you did that one or whose turn is it basically?

43:10Jamie: I did that one, it's your turn okay so all right so my turn so let's um okay so let's let's kind of again look at a kind of um a summer transfer one this is from at bolton guna do you see if they will come on a uh reuteler stamway as floor or ceiling raises and in addition to them do we need at least one wow that's a statement of intent kind of signing i know there have been a couple of uh germans linked but they don't seem obvious, make our rivals sit up kind of signing. So I guess it's a question about the level of the signings that we're going to make and the level you'd like to see kind of after that.

43:54Yeah, I think On About Year is a ceiling raiser. I think she's a younger, refreshing player. I think that Georgia Stanway is a ceiling raiser in that midfield. Geraldine Moitil is probably more of the floor raiser, like she's the depth raiser. But I don't think you can look at these signings and say they're easy signings.

44:12Jamie: Like, Ono Batier is a fantastic player that I think is much wanted across the world and Europe. Georgia Stanway is the same. Like, we can't say that's not an improvement on the squad unless we sign, like, Bunny Shore. I feel like that's what people are expecting to be, like, the big marquee signing. And sometimes that's just not how squads are built. Like, sometimes that's not how winning squads are built. And I look at, like, a big superstar in the women's game right now, and I think, who are you? Like, you're looking at maybe midfielders, maybe, like, hypothetically, someone like Aitana Bomati.

44:38Jamie: Like we have a Mariona Caldante in that position that's already integrated into the squad. Someone like Bunny Shaw, like obviously Alessio Russo is the star of this team. So I think there's little room in this Arsenal team to make like a big, like superstar ready made, like Champions League winning, like massive serial winning signing. I think that right now this squad and the reason we've failed in the WSL since 2019 is because we don't have the depth and we don't have it across the starting 11. We don't have these kind of players that are raising the ceiling across the board. So I think that in terms of recruitment, from what I've seen already, and to be fair, June's not even over yet.

45:12Like this is a very, very exciting period for Arsenal women. And I was feeling very reserved a couple of weeks ago, Tim. But I would say the recruitment right now is raising the ceiling. It's raising the squad. And sometimes fans aren't going to be happy with that. And that's completely fair. We all watch players differently.

45:25Jamie: But right now, I think what I'm seeing is the squad is improving and the age is refreshing and it looks exciting. Yeah, I'm completely with you. I think Honor and Stanway ceiling raisers. Reuteler, somewhere between the two, remains to be seen. Depends what kind of role there is. If we were to get Baum and Churchy done, they're probably floor raisers, again, which is kind of needed because we lost some attackers. For me, the other ceiling raiser I'd like to see is the left centre-back, to repeat myself, basically, because I think our floor is high. I think in defence, I think we have a good array of centre-backs.

46:04They're all just mainly right-footed and Steph Catley's left-footed, but she's 32. That's where the ceiling raising, I think the further ceiling raising has to come. And then after that, maybe another attacker who's a bit of a floor somewhere in the ceiling maybe. I think like a younger midfielder is maybe something the club would like to do if the right opportunity came up. You know, Marlon Gutt, but a Marlon Gutt that actually works out in the long term type thing, or a Catherine Coole that actually works out in the long term. I don't know. Again, I don't know whether they'll be able to do that.

46:47But yeah, I think like a ceiling raiser in defence, that's what I'd like to see. Let's do one more. And that's your turn, isn't it? Yeah, this one's just about Rosa Kofagi. Premier League winning egg says, do we know what is happening with Rosa Kofagi's future? It seems unlikely there's a place for her in the squad.

47:06Jamie: And then there is a backup question from Bolton Guna. Do you think the loan spell of Rosa Kofagi has been a success? If so, do you see her being integrated back into the squad? Or are we able to command a decent fee for her? Yeah, I mean, I don't know what's going to happen. but you know Brighton put out a kind of thank you she's going back and she did a big Instagram post that was like thank you I really enjoyed my time here so it doesn't look like they're going to try and buy her so that doesn't mean it's completely unsuccessful she's played in a good Brighton team got to an FA Cup final spent a year training with Fran Kirby that might be the most valuable part of all of it but essentially I think if you go on loan to Brighton and they don't really want to buy you it doesn't make it unsuccessful but I don't think it makes it successful enough to come back to Arsenal and I think that's one we should be looking to cash in on and I don't think we'd be looking at someone like Lisa Belm and Selena Churchy I think if we were going to bring Rosa back in we'd do one of those Geraldine Reuteler as well that feels like another player that blocks her path I don't see a route for Kofadji not that's speculation on my part not information but um what do you think on that one I agree I have nothing to add I have nothing to add exactly what you said and and you know she played under a really good coach as well in Dario Videsic it's been it's a really good club to go on loan to Brighton um and I but I just kind of think if you don't flourish there it's probably just not going to happen and it's it's probably just a move that happened too early uh Kofadji to us and it's probably one that could have waited a year or two really.

48:53Jamie, will that do for this episode? That will do. It's been nice talking to you, Tim. It's been very nice. You too, you too. And very good luck with your final assignments and all of that. We will let you get back to the library. We will probably come back with an episode in a fortnight or so unless something massive happens, which I wouldn't rule out because it's the summer and stuff will just drop. periodically um we'll try and mix up as well during the summer with some guests already got one lined up um to do a bit of arsenal chat we'll probably veer outside of that in quiet periods as well and try and do some more general women's football stuff so we'll keep the pod going during the summer every probably about every fortnight and we'll try and do different things here and there um to keep you you know to keep you with something to listen to so thanks very much for joining us for this episode hopefully you'll continue to join us um over the summer and as usual i'll ask people to bookmark um the arsenal women's section on arse blog news because um if we have any stories to drop uh any point that's where it's going to happen so do keep that book marked we'll be back with the newsletter soon enough we'll be back with the podcast soon enough until then enjoy your summers and we'll speak to you very very soon

50:29We'll be right back.

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